Damaged Goods

damaged_goods

As a part of my line of work doing liquor branding promos, I’ve frequently had to do spots with (terrestrial) radio talk shows for events and such. I’ve had to familiarize myself often with these personalities; some I became long time friends with, others kind of burned out or became victims of what they thought was a greater social proof than they actually had.

One thing I’ve noted in working with the men who host these shows is that more often than not they suffer from deeply invested Blue Pill mindsets with regard to women. Many of them eventually invited women into their male space as co-hosts to help with appealing to the female demographic, and like all other “female friendly” ventures, the character of the show shifts to promoting the same feminized boilerplate we see in Purple Pill forums and blogs that began with a more Red Pill tone.

Almost invariably there develops a segment or some call in bit where the host and hostess(es) attempt to suss out the romantic problems of a caller or emailer. If you listen to any semi-popular local morning commute show you’ll get this segment at least once or twice a week. All of them follow the same format. All of them rattle off the same Blue Pill tropes even those without the aid of a Red Pill Lens are familiar with – open communication, keep it fresh, meeting (her) needs, be supportive, etc. and all the standards you can expect from a society that doesn’t question the rote memorization of Oprah or Dr. Phil’s idioms.

If you do have a reasonably attuned Red Pill Lens you’ll just grind your teeth at all of it, but it confirms and highlights the Beta inside the host despite all his other blusterings on the show. It also serves to highlight the saturation of the Blue Pill’s conditioning reach into society.

So it was on one of these shows I was listening to this week that the ‘morning zoo’ decided to take a stab at one emailer’s very common problem. It was the typical Dead Bedrooms problem you’ll find in the subredd of the same name; “My wife is frigid, how do I get her to want to fuck me?” However, the story had a slight twist that nicely dovetails into a topic I’ve wanted to explore.

In this man’s story, he’d married a woman for all the right Blue Pill reasons. He loved her, “connected” with her on what he imagines are deep emotional levels, was supportive, dedicated, but was only able to have sex with her in as limited and as lackluster a way as she felt ‘comfortable‘ in having with him. After a year and a half of marriage, she’d completely “shut down” on him sexually. Anytime he initiated she would recoil from him and begin to cry.

There was no elaboration on her part as to why she was crying and up to the point of his seeking advice she’d offered no reason for her reluctance to fuck him. Fast forward to now and it’s been almost a year for him without sex with his wife, no explanation, and his ‘needs‘ are being unmet. He’s emotionally invested in her in the way you’d expect a Blue Pill, dutiful Beta would be, so his inner turmoil is one of the Paradox of Commitment conflict with his ‘need‘ and expectation of having sex with his wife.

As I said, this is standard Dead Bedrooms fare for the majority of men who married while fully immersed in a Blue Pill world. Unfortunately, we don’t have much more to go on – there were no descriptions of background, histories, family particulars, etc. given, however, my guess would be his wife is experiencing  the very common post-marriage Beta ‘buyers remorse’. However, this is why I thought the analysis and advice on the part of the hosts (1 male host, 1 male, and 2 female co-hosts) were very telling about the state of the Blue Pill world.

Presuming Abuse

The first reflexive interpretation on the part of the women was that this wife had some form of sexual abuse in her personal history and the husband’s initiating sex was triggering some unresolved sex issues she’d never dealt with and apparently never revealed to her husband when they were having sex in the years leading up to it. Again, there was no information about this from the emailer, but this was the first presumption the female co-hosts jumped to whenever a woman is described as crying about having sex.

We don’t really know if this is the case, but I found it interesting how useful that presumption is for women. In almost every social infraction we are expected to presume a blameless state with women. Whether that stems from rape allegations, ‘slut shaming’, past sexual history, red-handed infidelity, or, in this case, the presumed possibility of sexual abuse in a woman’s past, we are expected, on whole, as a society to presume that even the possibility is the actual fact.

Even when the actual fact is disproven, and the fault or choice blatantly falls upon the woman in question, the rationale and after-the-fact absolving of that woman of her own culpability is still expected to take precedence over the actual fault. For example, when I first detailed the situation of the woman and her husband in

For example, when I first detailed the situation of the woman and her husband in Saving the Best the reflex on the part of virtually all women responding to this story (as well as the relinks to it) and most Blue Pill men was to presume she had some damaged past where she was trying to find some emotional connection with the men she was having amateur porn orgies with in her college years. The acceptable, socially reflexive presumption was to give this woman a plausible reason – and one designed to evoke feminine victim sympathy – for her actions rather than consider that she was simply living in the moment and following her Hypergamous imperatives at the time.

Of course, the simple answer was that the husband was put into the same Dead Bedrooms scenario most men in his situation are placed in. He was the dutiful Beta in Waiting and “married a slut who fucks (him) like a prude”. There are over 30,000 subscribers on the dead bedrooms subreddit, this is not an uncommon occurrence, but just as common is the social convention of redirecting the fault on the part of the husband for his ‘selfish concerns’ for ever having been upset by this revelation about his wife. He was the bad guy for feeling ‘underserved’ with regards to his wife’s genuine, unobligated, sexual desire.

He’s the bad guy for not being understanding and supportive of the reflexive rationale that his wife must’ve been damaged goods (and damaged by other, equally horrible, men) before he decided to marry her. He’s responsible for coming to terms with it on his own. So it’s either face that or risk being perceived as the same kind of ‘typical’ asshole man who brought her to this by abandoning her in divorce.

‘Abuse’ as a Tool

‘Abuse’ is easily one of the most generic and utilitarian of catch terms and social conventions available to women living in a feminine-primary social order. It’s ambiguous, but also carries enough associative horror to get others to accept it at face value while killing any need for the uncomfortable explanations that would qualify it. A woman says “I was abused” and it ends the discussion regardless of any mitigating factors or particulars about it – and despite the particulars of what she claims ‘abuse’ to avoid. There simply is no qualifying it. If she feels abused it is abuse, and don’t worsen the situation by asking her to qualify it.

Claims of prior abuse are the perfect tool for women to explain past sexual indiscretions as well as to explain frigidity with a husband or a boyfriend, even those with whom she’d been sexual with before. Needless to say, this is a very useful tool for explaining and excusing women’s Hypergamous impulses and concurrent behaviors, however, I should note that the ‘abuse’ social convention will become less and less tenable as Open Hypergamy becomes more widespread and embraced.

For Beta men – Blue Pill men plugged into the narrative of unqualified female victimhood – there is a very real risk of becoming trapped in a cycle of White Knighting against the evils of ‘typically masculine’ men who would ‘abuse’ his princess while simultaneously reinforcing his Beta status in avoiding the perception of being an ‘abuser’ himself.

Knights Against Abuse

The men and boys I detail in Promise Keepers are prime examples of this looping presumption of abuse. For the most, these men had, or understood that they had, “abusive” fathers whom they swore never to emulate in their adult lives. While that abusiveness may or may not be factual the impression of it is what molds that man’s life, but at the same time predisposes him to the Savior Schema that only cements him into a personal life founded in Blue Pill White Knight heroics.

There develops an internal conflict for these heroes of abuse because their dedication to themselves as their own Mental Point of Origin will always be compromised by a Blue Pill conditioned responsibility of supportiveness for women. For the patient, waiting Beta, the man who’s played by what he believes are the rules for the better part of his teens and 20s, there is a unique anger he experiences when his ‘dream girl’ (or one that closely aligns with that ideal) isn’t sexual with him in the way he’s imagined women are with men during their 20s.

She’s come to him in her Epiphany Phase and after all the sexual indiscretions and self-discovery of her 20s, she finally wants to “do things right” by making him wait to have sex (so he won’t think she’s easy) and when they do it’s inhibited or becomes so once he’s locked into emotional or marital commitment with her. Now add to this the presumption of, or stated account of, ‘abuse’ she’s experienced in the past with the ‘typical’ men she was discovering herself sexually with.

You might even add the child of one of her former ‘abusers’ into the mix with whom he’s expected to form a paternal bond with. That Beta now hates those ‘abusers’ with more passion than when he was brooding about them banging the girls he wanted to fuck in his 20s because they ruin women in both the short and long term to him. They’ve ruined his girl for him now that she’s come to her senses and chosen him to pair with “forever”.

Now she’s a mess, a mess he’s expected to untangle and heal and reconstruct into something resembling the sexual dream girl he’s convinced she used to be, and all because of that “Bro”, the abuser, they guy(s) she had to discover for herself she ‘really didn’t need in her life’.

She’s damaged goods, but to that Beta, she’s blameless in her having been “abused” because she didn’t know any better that ‘typical’ men, the ones she chose, would abuse her. Now their abuses are his problems and he’s reminded of that every time she cries when he initiates sex with her.

The Utility of Damaged Goods

In this context, the social convention that is “abuse” becomes another form of insurance of Hypergamy for women. That presumption of blameless abuse locks Beta providers into a Dream Killers schema to the point that they will prioritize the healing of their ‘abused’ princess, the one who would otherwise be his dream girl, above his own imperatives, aspiration and goals in order to prove his quality as a supporter of women.

For women, the assurances that the social convention of ‘abuse’ represents also comes with a measure of internal conflict. From the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy, her subconscious hates the idea of being obligated to fuck her Beta Bucks provider, but again, subconsciously, she needs (or feels she needs) his support, provisioning, and emotional availability. However, for all of his self-evincing support, comfort and emotional investment in being a “better man” than the nebulous ‘abusers’ of her past, those anti-seductive aspects only serve to remind and confirm to her that he ‘doesn’t get it‘ and she’s obligated to be intimate and affectionate in a seemingly genuine way if she’s to maintain the provisional relationship.

The default presumption of ‘abuse’ fills the need for a buffer between reconciling the Hypergamous want of an Alpha lover and the provisional, emotional need for a Beta’s resources and comforts. The DeadBedrooms and MarriedRedPill subredds (not to mention the MMSL forums) are littered with the stories of men who discovered (sometimes secretly) how sexual their ‘abused’ wives were in their Party Years or what their wives’ real sexual appetites were for other men after their divorce.

Now, as I close here, let me state that I’m not discounting the real possibilities of actual cases of abuse among women. I have no doubt I’ll generate a slew of disgruntled comments from women relating their personal tragedies in today’s comment thread, but my point in this essay isn’t to question women’s legitimate claims of abuse. Rather it is to lay bare the utility invested in presuming the legitimacy of abuse whenever a woman even hints at the possibility of it by crying before sex or any number of other behaviors or mental states that would be affirmed or excused by just the claim.

494 comments

  1. Unrelated question but just your thoughts on Groundhog Day. I just recently saw it again. It seemed to address both the blue pill and red pill perspective. When Bill Murray tried to orchestrate the “perfect date,” things went to shit as all blue pill dates do, but when he was bettering himself, he got the girl. It seems to be a little ironic that when he’s “doing his own thing” he ends up getting the girl which gets him out of his rut of being stuck in the repeating day but at the end “doing his own thing” means getting the girl’s concession that he’s doing the right thing so in a way he’s still kow towing. Anyway, your thoughts….

  2. Rollo, this is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but I am curious how to square the red pill admonishing against white knighting behavior with the rampant sexual assault committed by migrants against native born women in Europe.

    Do you think the ongoing sexual assault is something the women of Europe have deliberately or subconsciously invited in order to get the tingles of rough, do-what-you-will submission to the other?

    Or is it more understated than that. I recently heard that in Sweden, the importation of heavily male-skewed unaccompanied minors is so pronounced that among Swedish adolescents there are 123 males for every female. Is it possible that the open armed embrace of a migration primarily constituted of young, sexual-prime men was deliberately welcomed by the women of Europe in order to provide themselves with the options for being choosy and optimizing their hypergamy?

    Were these women merely naive in that classic solipsistic fashion whereby they actually believed that the feminine-primary environs they inhabit was so broadly appealing that it will eventually win over men from a culture that seems to have a pronounced and well established distrust (to the point of caricature) of female hypergamy? Or is it a manifestation of their desire to be kicked off the pedestal and their deep yearning to submit (pun intended) to the masculine force confident enough to impose its will?

    My apologies for deviating so much off the post at hand, especially being a rare commenter. I know you’ve addressed the refugee/migrant situation before. But it seems that it is going to have a profound and lasting impact on the sexual market in several European countries going forward and I’m trying to get a feel for both the underlying causes (which I do think you addressed to some extent in your post a few months back on the matter) and, more importantly, the implications going forward, both for the market writ large and for how a native born Swede or German should navigate the sexual market dystopia he finds himself in.

  3. CLARIFICATION: 123 males for every 100 females.

    Try as they might they’ll never reach the magnitude my typo suggested.

  4. The problem is that there is a time lag in men. Our SMV peaks much later than women’s SMV. But society is arranged to disguise that. So many men are stuck with the image of the girl as a 19 year old when she looks nothing like that now. What they don”t realize is that they’d be way better off pursuing actual 19 year olds.

    The girl would prolly be more receptive if the guy was an actual abuser. Consoling them seems to be a passion killer for them – marks you out as feminine.

  5. Sudden:

    It’s ironic that some “red pill” writers like are actually pushing very blue pill ideas when it comes to “protecting local girls from the incoming bad guys.” They’re White Knights more than White Supremacists.

    The whole “for the good of society” thing is very K-selected. It’s why Evangelical Christians are ultra conservative and want to stop gene pool mixing.

    The “invaders” are red pill alpha, r-selected, with a massive drive to spread their DNA. Meanwhile the western world men try to “fight back” on Twitter and their blogs.

    The bitter truth of red pill is that nature doesn’t care. The strongest genes will win.

  6. Although your blog is one of the few with a shrewd understanding of the female psyche, Rollo, I find that your constant ‘us vs. them’ subtext is getting a little tiresome.

    Your use of extreme examples to explain everyday sexual struggles between women and men just doesn’t compute for me.

    Where are all these women who use ‘the abuse tool’ as an excuse to not put out? I might have met ONE such woman in my 35 years. One.
    Also the majority of women do not actually have promiscuous college / teens / 20’s years, that is a distinct group of attention whores or those girls who are just too slutty to care who’s dick they jump on.

    I agree that the ‘White-knighting’ culture has to stop and we need to man up as males, but women are not the enemy here – it is the society that we have allowed to be built based on feminine imperatives.

    Despite these minor gripes I’ll continue to follow your writing as I find it contains many good insights, so keep it ‘up’

  7. The protection against this type of situation – whether the abuse in the woman’s past was real or not – is for the man to keep himself as the mental point of origin. This is even more general, even if “Abuse as a tool” isn’t being used to justify the presence of undesirable behaviors or the absence of desirable behaviors.

    Selfishness isn’t necessarily bad. If the other person isn’t adding value to your life it is probably time to Next or Ghost or whatever, and don’t get trapped in a sunk cost fallacy.

    You can’t be responsible for someone else’s happiness, so take care of your own.

  8. I need sincere help and advice from red pill men, which I’d be really grateful for, and I hope I can find it here, this looks like a very neat site, honest and indeed rational.

    I will sum up: I’m a woman in her mid-thirties, I have been with my husband for four years, around same age. As you state in this post I am no exception, I had far better sexual partners in the past with whom sex was beyond great, they lusted after me and I lusted after them. The very best one told me he was divorced but he wasn’t, so it all was an awful lot of trouble. I didn’t want to be beaten in the streets by his wife so thank you bye bye. Shortly after, I met my husband. He’s got each and every single physical feature I like in men, and I lusted after him a lot.

    He told me what was wrong with me? That I was a nympho and shut down sexually to me, I insisted for one and a half years to have a normal and healthy sexual life until finally I realised he was not going to make a single effort to connect with me sexually. He’d rather play videogames or watch Star Wars or when feeling horny enjoy porn in front of my face. He was always tired, he rejected me but jumped over to ‘play’ with my and his female friends, etc.

    OK so I am in good shape and I was really good in bed (I miss those days), but there was no way I could change his mind. He was extremely passive-aggressive about anything, you couldn’t talk to him about anything, couldn’t negotiate anything. I wanted our marriage to be about two human beings having a decent life together, with respect, everything… but he was a slacker and only made big efforts to deny everything that was necessary to make things work.

    So one day I got enough of it and started seeing him under a different light. He did not love me, nor want me, and he just wanted me to cater for him like a mother while he was happily playing with his videogames and warhammer toys. I realised I had married a beta, a wilful beta, who wasn’t going to make any effort to make daily things better or easier. And I was going to be doomed to a celibate life from that moment on, because he already had invested money in my house and I was under no circumstances going to lose it to him. So no divorce.

    So I hopelessly kept on catering for him like mommy and I fell into a very deep depression, with low self-esteem, thinking I’m ugly and unattractive, missing an awful lot my past lovers, feeling old… the usual and sad shit. It took him three or four weeks to notice something had changed. He told me it was weird that I did not beg for sex anymore like before, so… fancy a fuck?

    By that moment, I couldn’t even stand his smell, and the idea of having sex with him gave me dry heaves.

    You don’t know how nasty it is to feel this way. You are sleeping by a man OK? And it is not you, it is your very body that starts wreaking havoc. Your stomach turns upside down, and when this person touches you it’s as if it truly is your very own little brother or sister who is trying to touch you, sort of like, what the hell are you trying to do? And marriage feels like veeeery heavy chains that are going to drive you hopelessly to a lifelong hell. And I can say the usual shit you know: I love my husband, he pays his bills, etc.

    I’ve tried having sex with him against my will, and it feels as pleasurable as an eye being poked with a sharp-nailed finger. And I really need to drink for days after the experience. Gosh, it’s the most horrible feeling I’ve ever felt, ever. And I’m allergic to things and I know what it is like to vomit non-stop for days. OK, that is much better than sex with hubby now.

    Tried counselling, total and shameless waste of money, damn therapists, I’d rather have bought some good whisky. It’d have worked much better.

    Cannot divorce for economic reasons (I’m not going to lose my house and goods to a guy who didn’t even want to look at me in bed, no sir) and also because, sadly, we love each other, we feel attachment. Hubby says if we divorce he’s just going to work and sleep and drink. I’m not going to do much better, and I’m not going to try having sex again, after the epiphany of knowing what it feels like to have sandpaper, eye-poking sex. No sir.

    And he wants his sex now, he realises he had a porn addiction, that he has been a passive-aggressive jerk, thinks a lot about our beginnings, when we just got laid and had fun before he started playing the spoiled brat… and I waited for more than one year and a half, when I was still healthy, to hear things like this. But now it looks as if he’s talking in another language, like, what did you say? And he does all the blue pill things now. He even does things I never asked him to do, like the dishes or cleaning. He is trying desperately to prove that he has changed and he’s a good grown-up boy now, he stopped watching porn (and I know, because he’s all the time around me when he’s not working, personal distance? What’s that?) he buys me flowers and jewels, pays all the bills… and I hate that he does that and all I want is to recover my desire for a healthy sexual life. I’ve never felt so desolate and joyless in my life, I never cried but now I cry everyday just because I’m breathing.

    The thing is, I don’t want to treat him this way, I really want to treat him with respect, and I really don’t want him to be so beta!!! And I don’t want to feel like shit every single second of my life. I’d much rather be single and lifelong celibate than in this situation. But what can I do?

    Can you please give me some advice that is not modern psychological crap? Like something that really works. I love my husband, he is a hard-working, very good kind of person. He is indeed a very worthy human being. If I leave him, he’ll be perfect “beta bucks” material for some other woman who’s not going to even care about him. I do!!!! I really don’t want him to be a “beta bucks”!!! I really want him to get his damn crap together and be the man he really can be!! I don’t want him to suffer and it’s as if he’s got a banner on his forehead reading “Kick me”. Why does he do that? I did everything in my hands to treat him like a man and wow, he did everything in the manual for me to hate him! Gosh, he even went to the point of talking to his exes on Facebook in front of my face and tell me he still felt attracted to them, and to tell me that I should cut my hair like them! He flirted with my best friend in front of my face (she laughed at him… and at me. Rightfully.) What the hell is he doing? I really don’t know what strange kind of crap runs through his head, but I know what women are like, just by the look of my female friends not to mention my female enemies, and he is perfect material for feminine abuse. He’s my husband, I don’t want him to end up like that, I don’t want to see him ending like that! I want him to man up, stop behaving childish-strangely, be a person! And I really really want to stop loathing the idea that he touches me. How can I fight against my own bodily sensations? And what can I do? I don’t want to finish my marriage and I admit I lied… it’s not for my crappy house. It’s because I really don’t want to see him like this. I am desolate and I really and desperately need help.

  9. Great article. Growing up I would watch Oprah and Phil D. and they were always blaming men for everything. Typically sympathetic to women’s tears and emotions and uncaring about males. Talks show after talk show for a year and a half I watched these. No cable choices or internet back then. I didn’t know why at the time I was repulsed by these shows. My disgust was manifest towards these shows, because I just knew something was not right. My inexperience with life as young teen did not give me the cushion of wisdom to be able to understand why I was not believing these supposed experts and host of these shows. I just stopped watching them altogether, because I just couldn’t take anymore of the anti-male propaganda. This latest article from Rollo has helped me to understand now, only a few decades late…, my teenage distrust of talk shows and anti-male pop-psychology presented as help, but was really just propaganda. Thanks for this.

  10. Wow… Nailed it. “The utility of abuse”… Quick timeline of my exwife. First six months, she bragged of “having sex in every position” and that she was accustomed to “big dicks”. Six months in, we moved in and the sexual dance changed completely. For the rest of our relationship, before having sex, I HAD to massage her extensively because otherwise she “can’t have sex if I’m not relaxed”. Cue dead bedrooms. Now, I also did not do my fair share to keep attraction, I thought my beta behaviours, earning potential and feminism was plenty. Cue the seperation. She goes off to Esalen in California and finds herself. Comes back and literally spends a week crying because she is getting over an abuse that she will not share. Cue the divorce. Suddenly, I’m an abuser. Here is a list of what she said was abusive: telling her that she had to wait a couple of years to do her masters because we couldn’t do it financially, asking for anal sex, patting her bum (it was spectacular tho), calling her an “ungrateful bitch” and having a “power and control mindset”.
    Happy ending, the mediator took about five minutes to see through the horseshit. She got zero of what she wanted. She is still seeing a therapist, five years later, to help her cope with the abuse. I have to say that in a way I am grateful, because now I have a great example to teach my son about women.

  11. Watched a documentary recently about The Sopranos tv show. In Season 3 or 4, there’s a show where Ralphie brutally murders his young stripper girlfriend for no good reason, and even his fellow mobsters are disgusted by what he did. In the documentary, the actor who played Ralphie said women started showing a lot more interest in him after that episode aired.

    Pay less attention to what women say, pay more attention to what they do.

  12. @Anonymous
    1st, if you’re going to be a regular poster here why not create a proper alias? You know something with a bit of imagination to it.

    Disclaimer: To the other commenters who are going to be reading this I realize that what I’m about to say will fall under rationalizing with a woman which we generally agree is pointless with regards to sexual arousal/attraction. However, certain points still remain because it would be insulting to a woman to imply she’s beyond reason.
    I’d also like to add that there’s a degree of doubt to be had in every sob/entitled story a woman tells about a man failing her as it never mentions her own failings. It takes 2 to tango. A woman is responsible for gaming a man as a man is responsible for gaming her especially in a long term relationship.

    Anyway, sigh! Back to you Anonymous.
    Few questions before I get into it. It will require some honesty on your part. If you remove sex and children what else do you think a woman can really offer a man that he couldn’t do for himself?
    While, from an arousal stand point I see where you are coming from. However, the deplorable lengths to which your entitled self as gone on to describe your husband pretty much comparing him to a disgusting garbage why? Because he didn’t revolve his every waking moment to trying to get with you sexually. Ironically even his long term best assets are the things you find disgusting about him.

    Do you know why guys play video game? Do you know what kind of day he had at work and all the hard work that goes into giving you those things you don’t want to leave him for? Do you know that eventually it gets old fucking the same woman? If you feel ugly go look in the fucking mirror and ask yourself how else can I make my life interesting? When you were single what did you do to make yourself feel beautiful outside of a man?

    For everything (including all the other women) he gave up to be with you the least you can do is fuck him every now and then if that’s how he wants it, because at the end of the day if someone broke into that house he’ll most likely protect you.

    To answer your question (1) Point him to this site (2) Have a sit down and let him know what arouses you. (Yes, I know women want men who gets it but if you got it yourself he’d be chasing you) none of that hinting and hoping he’d get it bullshit (3) If sex is as important as you make it out to be then divorce him and cut your loses but that’s not an option now is it because your want the house you FEEL entitled to? Which would mean that the bull shit of today’s woman being self sufficient outside of a man is just that bull shit huh?

    It’s funny how much men give up for a life time with “blameless saintly” women like Anonymous whose only mistake was marrying an imperfect man like her husband. Yes, men love sex but we have more to do in life than that. The other irony is that the commitment you sought from your man is the double edged sword that turned him into the person she hates but claims to love. What a laugh

  13. Anonymous

    April 5th, 2016 at 1:54 am

    How tall are you and how much do you weigh?

    Did you get – morbidly – obese as so many women do these days after the marriage feast?

    Why did you get married so late in – a female’s – life…early thirties?

    “, I had far better sexual partners in the past with whom sex was beyond great, they lusted after me and I lusted after them. The very best one told me he was divorced but he wasn’t, so it all was an awful lot of trouble.”

    So you used to be a side chick?

    Did you bring any children into your current marriage?

  14. The cognitive dissonance is simple.

    Women are wired to fuck one type of man primally: it ain’t anyone society considers a “good man”.

    This conflicts with another piece of internal female wiring: the need to be socially consistent.

    Society says she should love her husband the way she loves Chad. Biology furiously disagrees.

    It’s this fundamental conflict which creates a great deal of hamstering and confusion.All the more tragic for women and bluepill men then, as it’s a conflict which cannot be rationalized.
    A woman can love a man or be committed to him in a socially acceptable Bluepill fashion. She cannot do both.

  15. Maybe, it’s the cynic in me but everything seems depressing with the redpill lens on. I find it hard to watch TV shows to watch and movies. The male characters are all betas tip toeing around on egg shells around women. All the women are the lead smart investigators and the men their lap dogs seeking approval. I see everything Rollo talks about played out everyday.

    @Rollo, from our Sosuave days (if you still remember me). I see you as a mentor/friend. So, I want to take you to task here. I understand you want us to be our own men and find our own circumstances and not view you as some sort of savior. Still, it gets depressing seeing everything you point out with little or no practical solutions offered. Look at it this way. You’re the driver’s ed guy teaching us how to drive and the consequences of breaking traffic laws. Yet we still retain the choice of knowing what red light to turn right on and how many lanes over to switch before making the right turn. Still if no one taught the student to drive in thev first place the rules of the road will not make sense. My point is at the end of every post offer some sort of solution. We aren’t stupid we know this isn’t a one solution fits all but it will be a foundation solution.

    For example, with how feminized everything has become how does one navigate the male/female co-worker interaction where one can easily be accused of false sexual harrasment etc. Which was the case for me. The company knew I was innocent, company lawyer defended me and the company. Company ended up settling after deposition so as not to waste money on legal fees. Then company fires me a week or so later saying that I was a high risk employee because the ex-coworker’s friend still worked there and they were scared she might get an idea and target me again like her friend did. Oh and they said they couldn’t fire ex-coworker’s friend because that would constitute retribution which they weren’t allowed to do. I was given the option to get my own lawyer but I couldn’t afford one on my own at the time.
    The last few interviews I’ve had are by women. Seems women are runnning most things these days.
    My reason for bringing this up isn’t so much as me looking for a solution for my exact situation but for you to offer up a starting point (solution) that relates to each post you make. Thanks for considering this. Keep up the good work.

  16. @SD, I get your point about biology. We are now evolved and not just wild animals running around. Yes, I get some biology is still at play today but that doesn’t excuse a woman for not fucking her “good man” husband.
    There are days you don’t wanna go to work you do it. Thete are days a man doesn’t feel like providing for an ungrateful wife yet he doesn’t just up an run away. I used to work in a novelty store and lots of women of all ages came through to get toys.
    I can understand a woman not fucking a man as passionately as an Alpha but denying him at all despite all his sacrifices is just unacceptable. Even a whore that gets paid, fucks a man and pretends to enjoy it. I was raised a Christian but I swear I’m now of the opinion that men who I judged for cheating on their wives are right to do so.

  17. I would say Groundhog Day was mostly Blue Pill.

    If it was Red Pill Murray’s character would have been able to sleep with Andie McDowell without fixing his internals. He couldn’t. He could sleep with other women using “PUA” tactics (basically finding out what worked with each of them by trial and error) but that never worked with McDowell. I suppose hardcore Red Pill would say something should have worked with McDowell, or the internals wouldn’t have worked either. Maybe would have been a funny ending if he got out of Groundhog Day but she still blew him off.

  18. I think what you’re pointing out here is really important and true, but there are a few other things I’d like to add.

    The problem is that intersectional feminism has introduced a paradigm where victims are granted a very high status, lots of power and respect. Victims are looked at as having higher wisdom than non-victims, this is modern dogma.

    Victims are thought of as being *especially* worthy of love, especially entitled.

    But the truth is this: Victims, and I mean real victims — people who have suffered childhood sexual abuse, physical abuse, rape (though that word has lost all meaning) — are especially UNFIT for relationships.

    We have an imbalance of compassion without caution.

    Having suffered real abuse results in a grotesquely depleted reserve of self-efficacy, so that even while the person was truly victimized in the past, they will literally be unable to tell whether or not they are being victimized in the future even in normal interactions, and will err on the side of caution (abuse).

    Real abuse fragments the personality, producing a person with limited control over their own behavior and capacity for destruction. Real abuse places a real limit on how good of a PARENT you can be, even if you fight like hell against it.

    The White Knight complex, that these women should be rescued, well it’s like rescuing a bomb. You’re both going to get blown up in the end.

    I say this all as a person who has had a *difficult past*, and would love to be/is trying really hard to be a normal person, but I’m not, and I know that being married to me is exhausting.

    The fact that a previously abused woman is like a bomb waiting to go off more than a damsel in distress shouldn’t be a reason to withhold compassion from abused women, but the compassion needed is not –marry her! —

    There are other ways to defuse the bomb, and this is important not only for it’s sake, but for the sake of everyone around it.

    All that to say, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if this woman was a real victim, though I know what you mean about abuse being so easily presumed. It’s just that crawling away crying isn’t normal behavior, even if that’s a calculated act she’s putting on to avoid sex, it’s just not the behavior of a normal human being who does not desire sex.

    My response to that wouldn’t necessarily be “poor her”, though it is to some extent, but also compassion for him, and a wish on his behalf for a bomb squad.

  19. A redpill boot camp looks like a viable necessity,where men are initiated through withdrawal from electronic devices and encouraged to gain calluses.

  20. In my 61 years the number of women that have admitted to any responsibility for their marriage or relationship ending I can count on two fingers. The ones that played the victim card the most, the abuse they reported was actually what they did to their signifigant other. If a woman tells you she has been raped/abused, wish her the best on her recovery and walk away.

  21. @Megawit
    You’re missing the point. Rollo’s niche is pretty much explaining the various hows and why’s and if you don’t understand the magnitude of how much it’s really been us against them way before Rollo started writing then your eyes may not have been opened to the ugly truth.
    You’d be surprised the innocent seeming things women do that is just about us vs them in which they count on men’s ignorance via society’s empowerment to continue to do so. Feel free to keep living the lie.

  22. “I agree that the ‘White-knighting’ culture has to stop and we need to man up as males, but women are not the enemy here – it is the society that we have allowed to be built based on feminine imperatives.”

    Man: All right, it’s a fair cop, but society is to blame.
    Church Policeman: Agreed.

  23. “Maybe, it’s the cynic in me but everything seems depressing with the redpill lens on.”

    Nah. That’s just what an illusion extraction feels like.

    “My reason for bringing this up isn’t so much as me looking for a solution for my exact situation but for you to offer up a starting point . . .”

    Learn how to take care of yourself. If you unpack that, you may find that while I am being a bit terse, I am not being flip.

  24. Something about abuse and hypergamy in it raw form…I am 40 y.o and my father is now and he was alwyes an old patriahal man from East Europe. He told me one story but olso tell that he never understud point of that story. Year is about 1950, his vilage somewere in ex Yugoslavia. Some father decide to mery a daughter for some good man. Good man in that time perception. He gave a man his daughter hand a she start living in his house. One night when he had finished his hard work he found his wife siting on the door entrance. He told to her “come on women, I must enter the home, but she did not responde. He asks 2 or 3 times again but she remain silent and not moving from the door. He decide to jump over her and to enter the home. Same hapend again and she decide to live him. Story tell that her father again found a new husband but with similar story and. But when he found a housband number 3 something else was on the roud. That husband number 3 was returning from the hard work, wife was on the door in well known position. He told …move from the door women and when no word came from her mouth he kick her in the ass, pushed from the door and entered the house. She stay with him forever, gave him many children…in every situation respect her husband and “love him”. My father always told my that he never understud the point of story….and he wasn’t a pussy cat in his life and he never listen my mother or some other women…His words….To listen a women??! Huh…!! Bad english, still learning

  25. Best wishes for the autor of this site, those are some of my first mesages here, but i am reading Rollo’s blog from 2013. I am honest when tell next words…In my contry americans are on the wery low popular scale because they bombard my country in 1999, but I can say for Rollo that he is American with very large A, and I have a GREAT RESPECT for his work.

  26. @LeeLee – So spot on. I will share later on abuse and recovery, but the damage to self and identity is huge and not dealt with properly in many therapeutic settings. I also want to commend you for brutal honesty and openness, it’s touching. More to come…

  27. You often speak of open hypergamy becoming more and more common in the future. If this is true, how do you think feminists, SJWs and white knights are going to react to it? Do you think men will start waking up en masse, swallowing the red pill and improving themselves in order to compete with the pre-made (or pre-enlightened) alphas? Or will they further sink into porn, VR sex and generally give up on women?

  28. @ cattaro
    I like your fathers story and commend his letting you figure the meaning out for yourself,rather than foolishly explaining it.

  29. “The DeadBedrooms and MarriedRedPill subredds (not to mention the MMSL forums) are littered with the stories of men who discovered (sometimes secretly) how sexual their ‘abused’ wives were in their Party Years or what their wives’ real sexual appetites were for other men after their divorce.”

    Observation of human behavior…

  30. Great post Rollo!
    Another great “abused” scenario/example, has just played out over the last few weeks in the national media and social media world, so this dovetails perfectly into this gist of this article…

    …for those of you who don’t know the backstory, it was the Kyrie Irving/Kehlani situation. Kyrie Irving is a player for an NBA team, the Cleveland Cavaliers…anyways, he was dating this Kehlanie girl who is a low level R&B singer, and with many tabloid and social media posts/sightings over the last few months, their relationship became public, thus making her a social media star. Kehlani weeks prior pens this romantic love letter to Kyrie via social media for Valentine’s Day (love of my life, you’re my best friend, you’ve been there when I needed you, I love you, etc) ripe with every cliche “in love” emotion you can fathom. However, she suddenly goes back to her “Alpha Ex” privately (ironically the guys she describes in the love letter to Kyrie who she claimed she “gave 75%, he gave 25%”, who abused her, never loved her, etc(I know you are all shocked she went back to this awful man, lol). But much to her surprise, the “Alpha Ex” posts to Instagram the next morning, “After all her shenanigans, finally got this R&B singer back in my bed”…well as you would guess, the social media/SJW warriors shit storm erupts, and “they” shame her into submission for “cheating”, being “fake” etc.

    So, what does she do, when caught in the act of cheating? Well, all us RP men know women have zero accountability, guilt, or shame. She can’t take the negative backlash, thus this creates her meltdown. She is so distraught, she attempts suicide (I say “attempts” because there was never any description or details of the said act). In essence, she quickly shifts (it’s a must) the dynamic from “villain to victim”, simultaneously claiming “she’s done with social media”, all the while posting her hospital pics (i.v. images, bedside, etc.) to IG go figure?. Quickly she is now the victim, and the sympathy starts pouring in, thus all her guilt/shame is now the “abuse” she’s suffered. All of it washed away, she’s now a hero, and she “somehow” musters enough strength to lift that smart phone to document every single detail to IG (wasn’t she done with social media? lol) of her recovery. How brave indeed!

    What she forgot to clarify was that indeed she was done with social media, that is UNTIL it swung in her favor, , then it’s “back in the game baby!” and let the attention and sympathy warm her dark, little, selfish narcissistic heart again. .

  31. “Now, as I close here, let me state that I’m not discounting the real possibilities of actual cases of abuse among women.”

    Actually you can discount possibilities. We all have heard of the 20% of college girls are sexually assaulted.
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/may/02/are-20-percent-women-sexually-assaulted-they-gradu/

    Let me quote:
    “The origins of the stat

    According to WomensHealth.gov, “sexual assault can be verbal, visual, or anything that forces a person to join in unwanted sexual contact or attention.” Offenses range from inappropriate touching to forcible rape.”

    I a boy on the dance floor touches a girl on the ass… it’s included in this 20%.
    If a boy on the dance floor calls a girl a slut… it’s included in that 20%

    Think. About. That.

    Now given that a study, which was widely reported, pretty much invented the 20%… what is the REAL number?
    If you dig into the original study the number of REAL SEXUAL assaults on college campuses is like 0(point)2%. In fact it can easily be argued that College campuses are FAR SAFER for sexual related crimes than any place else… including a future work place where princess will be employed.

    Didn’t know that? yes I know it’s shocking that politicians would inflate a meaningless crime stat to curry favor with women. (snicker)

    And no one took the tack that this really means that 80% of women went through their college years and sexually NOTHING BAD happened not even an inappropriate touch! That’s the real statistic…

    —-
    My point is that when a woman starts to play victim we need to realize that not too long ago women were thought of differently. I remember vividly reading media from the 50s and 60s that took it for granted women would cry for no apparent reason at any time.

    We assume equality in our modern world. But women are wired differently than men. Many a time a woman would get emotional with me cry or what not. And back in my Beta days I would ask “what’s wrong”.
    ((Insert female spur of the moment excuse when really there is no issue outside of the woman’s ear space))

    Beware of Force fields

    When a woman acts strangely around intimacy a man should use the cold logic of reason. Rollo has said it like this, “A woman will F*** somebody, maybe not you but somebody”. A woman pulling a cry fit around sex is obviously using some kind of Force Field to prevent further escalation. It is just statistically not possible for ALL of the women pulling such tricks to be true victims of sexual assault/rape.

    NOT POSSIBLE

    Logic dictates that in a safe western country when a woman says she was a victim AND it was unreported to police. The man must be very skeptical as to the probability of such an event.

    Game’s success with women is a visible proof of human female irrationality. Men should realize that if a woman can rationalize to herself about attraction to a man running a good game. That a woman can delude herself to be attracted to a man performing PUA moves. Then a woman CAN and WILL delude herself about other things as well.

    Jack Nicholson said it best.
    “I imagine a man. Then I take away reason and accountability.”

    There is no accountability for a woman lying about ANYTHING involving sex. ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY

  32. For those just tuning in: be advised that most radio people are somewhat damaged, if broadcasting is their main line of work. Don’t expect them to have much a of personality at all, let alone a pleasant one, or a spine. Never mind how I know this, or for how long I’ve known. Those people in radio who are reasonably well-adjusted do not do it for a living, it’s for gas money or shits and giggles.

    The “add a woman co-host” is a radio programming fad which exists nationwide. No matter how red-pill the host may have seemed at first, the direction to add a co-chick was imposed on high by the consulting firms all chain radio stations obey these days. The basic meta-scripts are as strictly formatted and programmed as the music playlists, to be as FI friendly as possible, since they’re the audience. Ironically they are trying to ape Howard Stern’s recipe, (while completely missing the point: he teamed up with Navy vet and black woman Robin Quivers to have cover for his outrageousness, not to be “market friendly”).

    Also it’s important to remind our new viewers that the behavior complained of by these starved Beta husbands is not necessarily “evil” or “deliberate” or “manipulative” (though it can be, certainly). It’s just that old devil Evo-Psych. The tears may well be genuine, she may not objectively know why she’s guilty or sad or unresponsive, which is why she can’t explain it, in counseling or elsewhere, so round and round it goes.

  33. Hi first of all thank you for the people who cared to answer even though I’m a woman. OK I’m not going to say anything about that, I know what this site is, I’m not asking help at a best girlfriends’ magazine, and I also assumed most of you wouldn’t want to even talk to me. I respect that because that’s an option. So thank you for those of you who cared to answer.

    @J.A.F.Y.K.

    I’m answering your questions first, thanks for your reply (and I also agree that one cannot rationalise attraction, but I really want help… really need it. So thanks.)

    If you remove sex and children what else do you think a woman can really offer a man that he couldn’t do for himself? I think exactly like you. I was the one who wanted sex first. I don’t know what he wanted, I still don’t know what he wants, that’s part of the problem. And eww children?? No thanks.

    I’m not comparing my husband to a disturbing garbage, sad that you think I am. I have described what he has done with total honesty. There’s no rhetoric about that. My hub is no garbage, I’m looking for help, not for some pitiable sympathy about his bad traits. That would insult me, actually.
    But I am really aware he had a problem when he met and now the problem is also a lovely gift he’s imposed on me.

    Because he didn’t revolve his every waking moment to trying to get with
    you sexually: He absolutely never wanted sex. Never. But he’s not cheating nor leaving me, so I can’t understand. He’s not gay either. He’s just… too childish, or I don’t know… I don’t know…

    Do you know why guys play video game? I do play videogames myself. The Skyrim type, you know? Whenever I can, I love them. But that didn’t lead me to deny him sexually, never ever. The combination of sex and videogames is great! But he was always just too tired for that or for anything sexual. And yes, I do hate Warhammer with all my might. He only thinks about Warhammer. I tried playing with him, but he is also bored of that. There’s no way to please that man, gosh.

    Do you know that eventually it gets old fucking the same woman? Then why don’t leave? And what can I do? I keep on catering like mommy? We women can get tired of that too, but I was determined to make an effort. Hubby was making an effort not to do anything at all.

    If you feel ugly go look in the fucking mirror and ask yourself how else can I make my life interesting? When you were single what did you do to make yourself feel beautiful outside of a man? I never felt ugly before my husband denied so much sex from me. Feeling beautiful? Perhaps I’m clumsy but I don’t know. I’m good at my job, that’s it. But I think this is the most interesting point (and also the most civil point) you made to me, so thank you. I’ll think about that.

    To answer your question (1) Point him to this site: Can’t. He doesn’t speak or read English.

    (2) Have a sit down and let him know what arouses you. (Yes, I know women want men who gets it but if you got it yourself he’d be chasing you) none of that hinting and hoping he’d get it bullshit: Did that long ago. We talked a looot about sex. I’m even into Taoism. I wanted to try everything, and I told him. He was utterly disgusted and uninterested.

    (3) If sex is as important as you make it out to be then divorce him and cut your loses but that’s not an option now is it because your want the house you FEEL entitled to? Obviously, if my house is mine I feel entitled to it. Would you react differently? I bet no, lol. It was him who wanted to invest in my house. Big mistake on my part. I trusted him.

    Which would mean that the bull shit of today’s woman being self sufficient outside of a man is just that bull shit huh? Sorry guy I’ve got two jobs hubby just one and far easier than mine, and you know what? We get far less paid than you men. And I also need to take care of my elderly parents.

    It’s funny how much men give up for a life time with “blameless saintly” women like Anonymous whose only mistake was marrying an imperfect man like her husband: I’m not saintly, I wanted sex!!! It was him who wanted a prude. He found me disgusting because I wanted sex, so please. And yes, he’s imperfect and so I am. Do you think I’m a child? I was expecting imperfections, but not a life of celibacy, thanks.

    Yes, men love sex but we have more to do in life than that. Wow!! So what is all this redpill complaining really about?? You are complaining about the same as me!!! Why don’t we all now just go play Skyrim then? Wow!!

    The other irony is that the commitment you sought from your man is the double edged sword that turned him into the person she hates but claims to love. What a laugh. Pleasure to make your day. Hope you enjoyed it.

    @ace:

    I’m 1,62 and weigh 60 kg. He’s slightly taller. No children whatsoever, three beautiful cats.

    Why did you get married so late in – a female’s – life…early thirties? Er… perhaps because I met my husband at that age?

    So you used to be a side chick? No sir. It happened once and I left that guy as soon as I discovered that. HE was the bag of garbage. I don’t want shit. And he insisted to come back many times, I didn’t want to, I wouldn’t want to now either. But I can’t deny reality and sex was very good and sex with my hubby is very bad. It’s called plain reality.

    Well I see that indeed you are not willing to give me any true advice of perhaps you don’t know the answers either or loathe women too much to even talk to me, some of your remarks have been gratuitously insulting but I was expecting that already so I’m not feeling insulted really, so well I’m sadly leaving to find my answers somewhere else, if there is any. Believe it or not, I really want to solve this and I want to help me and my husband. Your cynicism hasn’t proved to be helpful for anything. Have a nice day, you all.

  34. I have to say that you cannot take a woman at her word for being “abused” today because the definition of abuse (by women) is ridiculous (it’s similar to the definition of the word “rape” being changed by young women).

    Women, often, embellish whenever they are telling their side of the story. You’ll never hear about how a woman started the fight, became violent and a man had to take action only to protect himself (maybe leaving her with a bruise as a result).

    Many of these women are truly damaged goods. Find out as much as you can about the woman having some type of relationship with her father (if she even knows her father) because that is key (I believe) to all of these damaged women. If she doesn’t have a good relationship with her father (or doesn’t know him at all), then you have a damaged girl on your hands.

  35. All women are damaged goods aside of “abuse”. Because no one is suitable for marriage. She has been made herself soulless via multiplayer butthex sessions. Only a beta buy the lie that this is not a damaged asset, physically and mentally. Sore assholes and dried dried gynas are always bad goods because after the parade of c*cks a betaLTR fate is boring bedroom.
    The best investment you can do is not purchase them in the long term. And hope that artificial wombs come soon for that.

  36. Dead bedroom = x degree of spatio-temporal cuck= she isn’t abiding the one cock rule.

  37. @Pinelero…regarding those daytime shows (Oprah, Dr. Phil) and advice on marriage problems

    The problems with those shows is that they always brought on the partners of the marriage (man and woman), discussed the issues but in the end they would feed the man to their audience (mostly all women). They would discuss the problems in the marriage, would touch on the woman’s side of the issue (for 2 mins) and for the remaining 48 mins they would hang the man out to dry.

    This reason is why so many men who grew up before all of this information was available online (through Rollo, others) became so frustrated in general with relationships. You saw society and the media, constantly, beating up men for being men (men that woman would actually take off their panties for any other time) and we watched these shows turned these men into real pussies.

    In the end, these men were doing house chores, nothing was fixed, the woman filed for divorce and probably started fucking another man (who didn’t cave to her). We, now, have all of the data (and history) to back up this theory.

    The bottom line is if you give into a woman, never say no, never put her in her place – when she needs to be put in her place, you are always apologizing or trying not to insult her, then she will end up leaving that man (Beta) for another man (Alpha) who will do it (and not put up with her shit).

  38. @Anonymous – Can you answer a question for me? Why did you marry this man? Was the sexual interest non-existent from the start? The endless video gaming? Or did it change? I can’t imagine he went from a sexual lothario and fully realized man to this immature, gaming, porn addicted man-child.

    So….I’m going to venture a guess at what’s really going on for you. He looked like you “Beta with a side of Alpha” dude and you thought he would “do” as a stand in. But you were lane changing from just getting lovers to also wanting a provider. When he didn’t respond, you went psycho-nympho on him and ruined the sex vibe, but even worse, since he’s beta he finds female interest intimidating so he shut down. Now, when he’s finally woken up and wants to fuck you, he’s solidly in the provider slot for you so his sexual advances repulse you.

    Bottom line? You tried to change him. When you withdrew and he thought he lost you, he woke up and is now trying to be more of a man and this is incongruent. Fyi, you chose a very immature man.

    A few closing thoughts:

    – You do realize staying with him just for the house makes you a whore of sorts, yes? You say it as though there should be no value judgment but it’s actually awful. If it were kids I’d see it differently but a house?

    – You are likely ruined from all that cock you got before wanting to “settle down”. I can’t find the links right now, but there have been great studies of showing the correlation between the number of sexual partners a woman has and her likelihood to divorce and become mentally ill. Bottom line? If you’ve had more than 10, you will likely never have a stable marriage and will also suffer with mental illness.

    – You sound mentally ill, fyi. Depression, sexual dysfunction etc. Could be BPD, bipolar – who knows? I suggest you seek some professional help.

    – Get divorced. Now. You aren’t doing him or anyone any favors. You don’t have kids yet so it’s no harm, no foul.

  39. Living in a Blue Pill fairy tale environment softened me to the point I found learning game and swallowing the Red Pill difficult.

    I’ve become more discriminating in the women I chose to keep in my life. If they’re not chasing, doing things, fucking me….I disappear.

    I think popular media, films, tv series all suggest to guys to just hang in there…But that gives all the power and decision-making to the woman.

    Red Pill is about recognizing female behaviours and understanding them in the context of what is best for you.

    Being a people pleaser is self-destructive. Being a “White Knight” leads no where. Being assertive, being independent and being direct when it’s needed and ambiguous when it’s needed are male survival skills in the sexual marketplace.

  40. @Anonymous,
    If you no longer want to fuck him then leave him. It will be the best thing that ever happens to him. He will be in shock and move his ass and get a grip on himself. Of course he will not return to you but start pursuing pussy. Right now you are just using him, and at some point you will fuck another guy if you haven’t already. If he finds out there’s no telling what he will do. But you can be sure that people will end up hurt psychologically and possibly physically.
    So do the right thing and leave him.

  41. You often speak of open hypergamy becoming more and more common in the future. If this is true, how do you think feminists, SJWs and white knights are going to react to it?

    That’s the wrong question to ask. They aren’t reacting to it, they are driving it and legitimizing it.

  42. @Anonymous…..I have to agree with one of the other commenters here. Put up a profile to go along with who you are….unless you’re not wanting hubby to possibly figure out who you are….if it’s that, then that’s cool.

    You mentioned that you are trapped financially because of “investments” he has made to your house. If it’s your house, and your name is on the mortgage, then it is still YOUR house. Nothing is going to change that legally. Depending on which state you live in, he could potentially be awarded monies for what he has spent, but I just can’t see how a court would give your house to him just because he spent some money on it. I think we’d need insight into just what he has done.

    And now for the kicker……and I’m sure I’ll catch some flak for this but so be it. THIS IS NOT A MAN!!!!!! He’s definitely not a man in any Red Pill sense of the word, and he’s barely, if even, a man in any Blue Pill sense of the word. So you’re 5’3″ and what….roughly 130lbs. For the majority of men, even Red Pill men, that isn’t something I’d be afraid of looking at in the mirror. I dated someone who was 5’4″ at 126…..she had the best booty of anyone I’ve ever dated! You say you are repulsed to have any kind of sexual, or even non-sexual, contact with this man.

    GET OUT!!!!! Contrary to what is espoused in the Red Pill section of the manosphere, there are women out there who don’t let themselves go in their 30s and they don’t hit the wall either in their 30s. 9 times out of 10, and even sometimes 10 times out of 10, it is their personality and their actions that make their looks degrade after 30. You still have time to move on forward to something better….something happier……something that you deserve.

    I’ll leave you with a thought from one of my favorite movies…..the Shawshank Redemption……..GET BUSY LIVING, OR GET BUSY DYING!!!!!

  43. I see the NY Times article highlights the man-hating Mr. Man, Michael Kimmel. Since in his studied academic view all masculinity (as we know it) is toxic, he has no answers, just shaming retorts. Nothing in the course syllabus is men don’t know how to behave as men when they’ve been indoctrinated that any way they might naturally be inclined to behave is violent, misogynistic, and problematically cisheterosexist. Which includes achieving academically! That might make women feel marginalized by broculture. So why be a Try Hard? That’s toxically man-ist. Best to sit back and let the gals have it for a while. Meanwhile sitting on a stairway crying on video will do the trick just fine no doubt as the proper alternativre.

  44. As expected, the first women to comment on this post reflexively resort to reversing the narrative to themselves with “not in my case” solipsism and thus proving my sentiment that even when men aren’t behaving as desired it’s conflated with “abuse”.

    It’s “abuse” if he doesn’t want to fuck me, and it’s “abuse” if he insists on fucking me. THAT is exactly the utility I’m discussing in this article.

    In fact the first response I got on twitter was a woman asking me if I’d ever considered the reverse. No, because that’s not what this utility is about. Anytime anything unflattering shines on women’s nature the first response is to find a functional equivalent for men. Sorry ladies, I’m not talking about men in this post, I’m focusing on you.

    If that steps on your toes, or the toes of men who think I’m being unfair, I’m not sorry, that’s not what I’m shedding light on this time.

  45. @Scribblerg: if you do a quick google of partner count chart you get some. This is my favorite one as it has 4 charts in a single picture:

  46. @Megawit,

    Although your blog is one of the few with a shrewd understanding of the female psyche, Rollo, I find that your constant ‘us vs. them’ subtext is getting a little tiresome.

    Then I suggest you page back through the almost 5 years and 500 posts of material on this blog and read the countless essays where I have held men’s feet to the fire and been run up the flagpole for doing exactly that.

  47. @LeeLee, not for nothing, but ‘women as victim’ or the weaker sex being female-specific benefit for women predates feminism by about 8 centuries.

  48. Re: Abuse. I suffered horrendous physical abuse as a child. My Dad actually was the “Terroristic Abuser” archetype. As LeeLee described, one’s very sense of self gets warped as you learn to be who ever you have to be to avoid the abuse. Your entire world is dominated by the abuser and your own development as a human being becomes stunted and warped.

    Another pernicious effect is becoming hypervigilant, meaning that you end up always on edge in any relationship, always on the alert for someone abusing you. It can turn into oppositional problems and manifests as having a hair-trigger. Perhaps the worst effect of all is the impact on self-esteem. In my case, my Dad literally told me I was shit, that I would never amount to shit and that he couldn’t wait to throw me out of the house so he could laugh when I fell on my face. I could also never please him with any work/chores I did around the house. As my stepmother put it when I was 14, “I don’t know why you even try, no matter what you do or how hard you try, it’s never good enough.”

    I actually teared up writing that last bit. What he did to me was so destructive and horrific, it’s kind of hard to describe it in a way that gets through with mere words. Let me try this way. When my Dad wasn’t around, home was a fun lively place. My Mom was sweet and funny and warm and loving and we were 4 kids, bouncing around, making noise, playing etc. When we heard my Dad’s car in the driveway and his door slam shut, we would all run to our rooms and hide. I can still hear the car door shutting and feel the terror it would strike in my heart. I developed PTSD by 7-8 yrs old, manifesting a stammer out of nowhere, developed spastic colon by age 9 and also began to have a recurring nightmare that plagued me until I was 19. It was also at this age when I split another kid’s head open in a vicious fight.

    So, that said. When I hear a woman speak of abuse and PTSD, I always perk my ears up and ask her about it. Many times I find she has never even been hit or physically abused. Often, it’s emotional abuse and while I can relate to this as in many ways, when it’s just emotional it doesn’t have anywhere near the same effect. My father’s emotional abuse would involve mulit-day gambits he ran on us, with the ever present threat of physical punishment. The combo ratchets up the emotional aspect to a level someone who hasn’t experienced such things simply cannot imagine.

    The cure is long and winding. Co-dependnency treatment. Group therapy. Talk therapy and self-discovery. Healing of traumas. Dealing with substance dependency and self-medication. Lots of psycho-active meds. Coping with anxiety. Working one’s way out of depression. For me it’s been nothing short of a lifelong struggle, with the onset of CPTSD in my 40s triggered by a life threatening rock climbing fall.

    One observation for the specific case of sexual abuse. As an aside, I have a blacked out memory (yes, like some stupid fucking Lifetime movie) that seems to be sexual abuse happening when I was 7 by a babysitter and her brother but it can’t be brought back, it just fades when the shit starts getting real so I actually don’t know. But in any event, the best treatment for trauma of any type is “exposure therapy” meaning revisiting the trauma and recreating the conditions of the trauma. Chris Kyle (American Sniper) was doing this when he took PTSD victims to the shooting range, and this reduces the anxiety response to the trauma by lessening the charge. Re-visualization also works well and that’s how I approached it. The most ridiculous thing the SJWs have come up with are “Trigger Warnings” – avoiding topics that trigger PTSD episodes are the opposite of the treatment that actually works and in fact, avoidance reinforces the anxiety response. So if you are dealing with someone with sexual abuse in their past, avoiding sexual contact is exactly the wrong response therapeutically.

    If someone who is damaged in the way I was is not willing to do the work to heal themselves, there is no hope. And even then, such a partner will be a handful. That’s just how it is. We do tend to be incredibly empathetic partners. I my case, I developed a wicked sense of humor and creative talents that are deepened by my journey through so much darkness. Also, having to look so deeply inward has given me real wisdom I can share with others to great effect sometimes. But we are in some ways hopelessly broken people. And I’m an example of someone who transcended much of that shit, I’m a “success story”. The last time I went to a shrink, in 2010, for anti-depressant meds, going through my mental health history took 45 minutes. When done, she said, “You do realize that it’s a miracle you aren’t a heroin addict, living on the streets or dead, yes?”

    Some will think I’m flacking for sympathy or living in the past by recounting this. No, I’m simply owning it. That is the most powerful way to deal with this, by neither denying or it nor drowning in victimhood.

    So when I hear some ginned up horseshit about abuse from some spoiled, entitled girlie, I get kind of outraged. And of course, when I meet someone suffering for realz, I help them to the best of my ability. But what they can’t do is get over on me with their tale of woe.

    If you are with someone so afflicted, you must demand they get help and proactively deal with their problems. Don’t let them make you accommodate them, it hurts them more than it helps them. If you have to walk on eggshells with them, it’s not healthy for anyone and has to change.

    Last. It took me until the Red Pill to fully embrace that I get to have a good life anyway. I used to think I was fucked from birth and that I’d never get a normal life. A “triple winner” as they say in the abused, adult-children of alcoholics, AA meeting I used to attend. Now I don’t see myself that way, now I get to have whatever I want. I think the self-loathing I internalized was greatly enhanced and reinforced by the Blue Pill, FI world in that all men’s essential natures are shamed today.

  49. @Eric Offit

    I do think you nailed it when you said “The bitter truth of red pill is that nature doesn’t care. The strongest genes will win.”

    What my post is trying to get to is how a man who finds himself among the wreckage of modern Europe with such a heavily skewed male to female ratio is to do in order to have the strongest genes, as the horribly skewed sex ratio assures that a significant percentage of men in modern Europe will be the last generation of their genetic line.

    It seems that the expectations and punishments that a native born Swede has to deal with are considerably harsher than that of a migrant, so Sven ain’t exactly in a position where he can compete with the migrants by going on raping binges himself.

    And is there a mental point of origin at which a Swede scanning this minefield can man-up and assertively mate-guard on a larger social scale not out of any white knighting desire to protect the damsel in distress but rather out of a more alpha mindset of protecting what he owns, i.e. a sense of entitlement to your own culture, territory, and yes, even to a balanced sexual marketplace constituted largely of your own countrymen and women.

  50. “In almost every social infraction we are expected to presume a blameless state with women.”

    In almost every legal situation as well. And especially in divorce court.

    I was absolutely amazed that the courts pretend to have no concept of the fact that a 20 year marriage might have a few tense moments. For the woman, this is golden leverage. She pulled out all the stops, and falsely accused me of everything under the sun. Every (true) infraction that had occurred was embellished 10-fold. The only lie she left out was rape, and I’m quite certain that during our 2-month separation fuck-fest, she was trying her damnedest to manufacture something to give her that holy grail of leverage as well, and would have used it.

    For those of you who have not been divorce-raped, here’s how it goes.. Her lawyer will serially launch these unfounded accusations at you. When you tell your lawyer.. “fuck this, I’m tired of playing defense, fire back, attack!” You are told, “not wise.. it makes you look like a domineering, controlling person (which is abuse nowadays, in case you haven’t heard).. you want the judge to see you as Mr. Reasonable, and Mr. Nice Guy.. anything that hinders that image puts you in jeopardy”. FOCUS on the fact that all of her accusations will be taken seriously and presumed as truth unless you can present your kind-self successfully in court. Let’s not accuse her of any fault in anything.. cuz it makes you look bad.

    There’s the epitome of your presumption of female blamelessness.

  51. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/education/edlife/teaching-men-to-be-emotionally-honest.html

    Comments are gold mine.

    “You are kidding yourself if you think girls and women only want to date jocks and it is a sexist and misogynistic put-down of women to even make such a generalization.

    As a woman who also communicates with a lot of other women, the reality is that few women with IQs greater than 110 and virtually no women with IQs over 120 want to have anything to do with jocks. Intelligent women want intelligent men. And if you look around, you will also notice that women like musicians and artists and writers. Indeed, when I was in high school and college, the boys were all starting bands and taking up the guitar because they got that women liked the artists and musicians”.

  52. @ScribblerG 8:26 comment; Insightful Red Pill diagnosis. She would never get that honesty anywhere else.

  53. @Rollo

    I had read your war brides of Europe post when it dropped a few months back, and I think the analysis is spot on within it. But I think there’s a lot more to unpack on this issue than what was addressed there. Admittedly, I didn’t wade through all of the comments so I don’t know if these other issues were unpacked in the thread that followed the article. In fact, the thing that struck me was that the overarching discovery of red pill philosophy and the very aspect of the feminine imperative that you most address, open hypergamy, wasn’t really addressed within it.

    In particular, the ratio of Swedish adolescent males to females got me thinking about the migrant from this view of open hypergamy. It’s been obvious to anyone following the migrant issue from the start that the vast majority of those flooding into Europe are males in their sexual primes. And considering the policy of facilitating and accepting all these migrants is primarily coming from Germany’s spinstress PM Merkel, it stands to reason that the desire to rig the sexual market with an abundance of choices for women, thereby artificially creating SMV for lower SMV women, was an outright motivation for the whole business.

    Sure, it seems the innate solipsism leaves them struggling to grasp the reality that their worldview isn’t as appealing to vast chunks of men from distinctly more male-centric cultures. And they’re now appealing to the sense of honor and white knighting to protect themselves from the consequences of their own war brides embrace of the other (though I maintain that there has to be a mental point of origin where a man can protect a woman not out of duty but rather out of an entitled desire to protect what is his). But it strikes me that the whole affair was orchestrated from the get go precisely to create massive sexual market imbalance. And now that this imbalance exists, it proves both a cautionary case study and requires some analysis on how a man existing within such an imbalanced market should adapt in order to ensure the survival of his own genes and those of his larger diaspora.

  54. “For example, when I first detailed the situation of the woman and her husband in Saving the Best the reflex on the part of virtually all women responding to this story (as well as the relinks to it) and most Blue Pill men was to presume she had some damaged past where she was trying to find some emotional connection with the men she was having amateur porn orgies with in her college years. The acceptable, socially reflexive presumption was to give this woman a plausible reason – and one designed to evoke feminine victim sympathy – for her actions rather than consider that she was simply living in the moment and following her Hypergamous imperatives at the time.”

    the simple barometer for how you measure up in her eyes is to ask the question ‘what was my sexual experience with her’ before the honeymoon phase ended?

    if the chick was letting you get it in every position, anal, facials, porn star, public sex —- whatever, whenever….then that’s not bad news. it means that at one time she saw you as at least on par with her top tier lovers.

    “‘Abuse’ is easily one of the most generic and utilitarian of catch terms and social conventions available to women living in a feminine-primary social order. It’s ambiguous, but also carries enough associative horror to get others to accept it at face value while killing any need for the uncomfortable explanations that would qualify it. ”

    kevin smith, speaking through ben affleck/holden, tries to interpret these actions through an ‘abuse’ narrative. while kevin smith is pretty TBP about everything and lets amy say some nonsense about her ‘using them,’ it’s important to note that for Holden, he has to interpret through this narrative of ‘abuse.’

    ….

    idk your fights should look more like ‘you pissed me off so bad i was thinking about deleting the porn we shot’-while-sexing vs ‘omg when im mad at you we can’t sleep together’

  55. Referring to single mothers and sluts as ‘damaged’ or ‘used goods’ is a great way to viscerally strike fem-centric folks at their core. It’s fun, and at the same time fascinating because I imagine that before the 1960s degenerate revolution, using this kind of terminology would have been rather run of the mill, so to speak.

  56. an ex of mine had been abused by her father and then had a series of toxic relationships, she was also “raped” by some bro after getting wasted at a college party. i’m not a chad but i was pretty fucking alpha with her, in fact she would regularly tell me how i had a virile masculine energy and how it made her all tingly inside, was practically worshiping my nuts. 2 months into the relationship she shit tested me to hell. don’t try to turn a hoe into a housewife.

  57. @ J.A.F.Y.K & Rollo

    But the constant ‘us vs them’ subtext implies that it is some kind of fight, when women, replete with all their hindbrain agenda, should be approached as one approaches a child who is not able to make rational decisions for themselves – with careful authority. Take the decision making process away from them and ignore any bullsh+t.
    That is the humane thing to do.
    No conflict needed.
    No more us vs. Them.

    True redpill implies that you don’t even enter into any struggle or conflict.

  58. @MegaNitWit – Yeah, Zen that shit out man. It’s not as though social conditioning and conventions suppress male agency. and creates an actual false consciousness for men, and that the major social institutions of our society enforce these paradigms. There is no actual conflict going on, it’s just smooth as silk out there.

    Namaste, you imbecilic hump.

  59. @ “Anonymous”

    Send your hubby “The Rational Male” book anonymously (from “a girl friend of your wife” who wants him to know what she can’t tell him directly).

  60. Scribbs

    Your right in your post to Megawit (society etc.)… but his point is still worth adopting…

    Stay in your frame but accept women as they are and enjoy it as a feature not a bug. Lower conflict, more control.

    It’s sexier too…

  61. @Sentient – Confusing an analysis of intersexual strategies with a personal POV and frame is not interesting, it’s moronic. I grow weary of being lectured at by such sophists preening about their BS. To think Rollo is trapped in some kind of conflict dyad is to not understand the Red Pill at all…

  62. @scribblerg — thanks for sharing so openly about your dad. It is insanely frustrating when you have to work 3x as hard as everyone else to simply be a normal person and you still aren’t quite there. At least for me.

    The thing about my dad is that he wasn’t a horrible person at all, that’s what I’m realizing now that I have some distance. In a lot of ways he’s an amazing, brilliant person who definitely went into the process of having a family wanting to build something good and be a part of something beautiful.

    His problem was that he grew up like most people of his generation thinking that the answer to all your problems is to suppress them and work hard as hell to look like a normal person. But he just wasn’t. He had a horribly fractured personality and he was full of ghosts he couldn’t control and so they controlled him, and he would do terrible, insane things. And he got worse and worse as the challenges of family life increased.

    And yeah, I used to think he was just a monster until I had a family of my own and found out that I’m just as haunted as he is, and how insanely hard it is to rid yourself of ghosts.

    Dealing with it is a combination of being willing to blame him at least to the extent that I’m willing to blame myself when it comes to my interactions with my family. No, he didn’t do the best he could do. I can’t give that to him without giving it to myself, and that wouldn’t be fair to my children.

    And yeah, it’s no eggshells, no capitulating, no accommodation or trigger warnings. I go to a therapist who takes my husband’s side 85% of the time and is willing to tell me, “STOP BEING A BITCH”.

    And it’s part of why I like reading here. I know better than to trust my own vision.

    The whole thing about victims is that it’s not usually the initial real victimization that undoes them, it’s the subsequent consequences of the victimhood they falsely perceive. The unwillingness of being able to take up responsibility for one’s own life and actions, or simply not knowing how to.

    The hair-trigger, as you point out, is a bitch. The girl scooped up onto the rescuing white knight’s horse and carried away will soon “perceive” that she is being kidnapped and jump off, only to be trampled.

  63. The bottom line for a man is NEVER accept a damaged woman, ever. Whether from “abuse”, divorce, mental illness, lack of good moral character, white trash upbringing it doesn’t matter. Nothing ruins a man’s life like a damaged woman. If she’s not enthusiastically fucking him, routinely, he should punt. There are millions and millions of loving, available, and sexually enthusiastic woman out there. There are no special snowflakes. Don’t waste your time on one.

  64. @Rollo, the woman as weaker sex as a benefit thing made sense in a society where women literally were the weaker sex — a civilized, or at least a Christian society doesn’t humiliate it’s vulnerable, subordinated members. In a context where women have no legal rights or protections, giving them a little extra consideration as the weaker sex kind of lifts everyone up and makes it work, at least if I’m understanding what you’re talking about correctly.

    But I don’t think we’ve ever seen a situation like we have now. People used to make a pretense of being from a *good* family, a good background, because this is what conferred social power. Now people, or at least women, make a pretense of exactly the opposite because it’s exactly the opposite that now confers social power.

  65. @ Rollo –

    Once again, great piece. Naturally there will be gnashing of teeth and rending or garments because some people won’t get the utility thought.

    zfg, of course.

    Good information for men to understand and give thought to.

    I dug it immensely.

  66. At the risk o sounding like a white knight: society does not take care of younger women as it did. It is a set up. The younger women really do not know any better. Neither do younger men. The ladies have a point here. They do. Young women get crunked up and full of beer; some women get fucked up. It is our fault as much as it is theirs. The other day a girl told me: “When girls are sober, they care a lot who has the money, but when they get drunk all they care is what a guy looks like.” A drunk woman thinks like a fucking teenager. To the men in here: How many virgins have you had sex with and then ditched? Some we even impregnated and then took off? I can see how such a woman marries someone else for the money and then becomes totally repulsed at the thought of sleeping with him. I am not saying I have a solution for this. I am just saying that I think it is actually true that these women are not trying to be run away from responsibility. They are actually damaged. And they don’t know how to get undamaged, I think they cant get undamaged.

  67. @LeeLee – Yeah, it’s a trick to get to the point where you can see your abuser as a human being but still hold him/her accountable. In my case, the violence was profound. I literally thought my Dad might kill me and my siblings growing up. He died two years ago, and when my bro and i were together for Christmas he shared with me that he felt “safer” since our Dad was dead and that it was very strange. I did too. Get that this bro is 6’2″, benches 375 at 59 and has been an official badass in the military and LE for most of his adult life. He hasn’t needed to be afraid of my Dad physically for a very long time. And yet…

    It’s a bigger trick to not be a victim and to evolve. I hope you are on your own path of recovery from whatever happened, separate from counseling in your marriage. I did over 15 years of formal therapy and many other things like AA, Buddhism, lots of self-help and transformational work. I even went to codependents anonymous for a while, but I just wanted to kick all their asses, lol. That was before CPTSD laid me out. The journey never ends for us but we can have happiness. I know it, as I am. 🙂 You are not destined to be the same as your Dad, don’t believe that shit.

  68. @cheup

    “At the risk o sounding like a white knight: society does not take care of younger women as it did. It is a set up. The younger women really do not know any better. Neither do younger men. The ladies have a point here. They do.”

    the problem is society and the top-down rules and conditioning, generally. esp the outright lies.

    no one can have it all.

  69. @leelee

    “But I don’t think we’ve ever seen a situation like we have now. People used to make a pretense of being from a *good* family, a good background, because this is what conferred social power. Now people, or at least women, make a pretense of exactly the opposite because it’s exactly the opposite that now confers social power.”

    never experienced this

    ive always thought it a positive when a girl comes from a rich/good/trad family and a negative otherwise….

  70. @ Rollo:

    “She’s come to him in her Epiphany Phase and after all the sexual indiscretions and self-discovery of her 20s, she finally wants to “do things right” by making him wait to have sex (so he won’t think she’s easy) and when they do it’s inhibited or becomes so once he’s locked into emotional or marital commitment with her. Now add to this the presumption of, or stated account of, ‘abuse’ she’s experienced in the past with the ‘typical’ men she was discovering herself sexually with.

    ***

    “She’s damaged goods, but to that Beta, she’s blameless in her having been “abused” because she didn’t know any better that ‘typical’ men, the ones she chose, would abuse her. Now their abuses are his problems and he’s reminded of that every time she cries when he initiates sex with her.”

    Spot on.

    To add to this, we have to understand the woman’s thought processes about her prior sexual experiences. There’s what actually happened, and there’s what she thinks about what happened/what she tells others about what happened. Those aren’t always the same things.

    She really was sexually attracted to the men she fucked. They were sexually attractive men. She wanted to have sex with them, so she did. Some of the sex she had was good. Some was not so good. Some of the men treated her well, some did not. But the fact remains that she was sexually attracted to the men she fucked before.

    There was more to it than just the sex. It was the booze; it was the party atmosphere, it was the thrill of being chased, and it was the affirmation and validation she got from being sexually attractive and garnering the attention of sexually attractive men. That thrill, that exhilaration, only fueled the sexual excitement. So what actually happened was that she had sexual experiences with arousing men, both of which excited her. Those were real feelings.

    But most of the experiences didn’t end well. She wanted commitment from one of the men. Or, more often, she wanted to have consequence-free fun sex, without being judged as a slut. Most of the time, it works out more or less OK, except that there are always negative consequences.

    *******************

    Now, on to the “what she thinks about what happened/what she tells others” part.

    She starts telling herself that because all those prior sexual experiences didn’t get her what she wanted (commitment, or guilt-free fun sex), the sex she had was “bad”. She wasn’t really attracted to any of those men. She didn’t really want any of them. She was fooling herself. What she thought was “good sex”, wasn’t really — it was a bunch of men using her. Because if it was good sex, then she should have felt good about it and she should have gotten what she had wanted from it. So, the sex with Fuckbuddy Rockbanddrummer and Harley McBadboy and Alpha McGorgeous was “bad sex”. And she was “bad”, or acted badly, because she had sex with them. And those men must have been “bad” and “wrong” too, because, again, if they had been “good” and “right”, she wouldn’t feel so badly and so guilty about being with them, and about the sex.

    And she isn’t responsible for it, not really. Because sex isn’t “bad”, or it isn’t supposed to be. She was only doing what she felt was right and good. She didn’t know better.

    But in reality, she didn’t act badly. She didn’t act “wrongly”. And the sex wasn’t “Bad”. She presented with a normal, healthy sexual response to a sexually attractive man. She did exactly what any woman would do in the circumstances presented — she found herself attracted to a sexually attractive man, and had sex with him because he aroused her sexually. And she was sexually aroused and turned on, despite her rewriting history about it later. She might not have orgasmed, but she was lubed up and ready to have sex, and did have sex.

    There is nothing “bad” or “wrong” about this. We can’t say “something didn’t work correctly”, because this is EXACTLY how all this is supposed to work. Boiled down to essentials, a woman is supposed to find an attractive man and have sex with him. It’s what they do. When hypergamy is completely unrestricted, as it is in the modern United States, this is exactly what happens — she finds attractive men and has sex with them.
    ****************************

    But she cannot tell her unattractive Beta man these things. She cannot tell him that none of what she did was “bad” or “wrong”. More to the point, she can’t say it in such a way that she bears any responsibility for it. So she has to say “the sex was bad” (i.e. poor quality sex) and “the men were bad” (i.e. men of low morals/poor character).

    Even worse, she has to act as if she’s attracted to these unattractive Beta men when in fact she isn’t — she was and is attracted to the hawt men who she used to have sex with. She is still attracted to them, and cannot have them. This creates an enormous cognitive dissonance which she must harmonize somehow. The way most women harmonize and reconcile that dissonance is to call the prior sex with the hawt men “bad” and “wrong” and “abnormal”.

    And that’s a big part of how she gets to Epiphany, and how she becomes “damaged goods”. She gets to that point in large part by attributing negative and pejorative connotations to that which is good and normal, and to that which is exactly what women do when given the choice.

    TLDR: She found hot men and fucked them. It wasn’t “bad” or “wrong” or “dysfunctional”. Her sexual response worked exactly as it was supposed to

  71. @Cheupez

    I think you still have some unplugging to do. Women are fully capable of using logic and making a a legitimate point when it aligns with their own interests. The trick is to take note of how quickly that logic disappears once it no longer aligns with their interests, and how easy it is to WANT to side with a woman once she gets emotional.

    Dat Gynocentrism in action…

  72. “no one can have it all.”

    that doesn’t sound like Scray.

    if anyone can have it all it’s definitely a man

  73. “the sex she had was “bad””

    odds are it was. average piv lasts 5 minutes. lol.

    real Chads are rare. if you happen to be one you’ll get offers that will confirm everything that’s been said about hypergamy

    majority of girls don’t marry real Chad. can we really blame them for crying before they have to do it with beta brad?

    I’d probably cry if I was in any way obligated to do it with Blamy Schumer

  74. @ leelee,

    ” @Rollo, the woman as weaker sex as a benefit thing made sense in a society where women literally were the weaker sex — a civilized, or at least a Christian society doesn’t humiliate it’s vulnerable, subordinated members. In a context where women have no legal rights or protections, giving them a little extra consideration as the weaker sex kind of lifts everyone up and makes it work, at least if I’m understanding what you’re talking about correctly.

    But I don’t think we’ve ever seen a situation like we have now. People used to make a pretense of being from a *good* family, a good background, because this is what conferred social power. Now people, or at least women, make a pretense of exactly the opposite because it’s exactly the opposite that now confers social power.”

    Women are still the physically weaker sex. Society/FI is ” empowering ” women at the expense or all things male.

    1) This is not a Christian society. Take a look around.

    2) The ” extra consideration ” traditionally was provided by men/husbands. It’s near impossible to legislate behavior.

    3) Pretense was never a good strategy, but I get what you mean. The FI pushes for equalism. All things are not equal and of course, everything is being turned upside down in the ( bullshit ) quest for total equality.

    The notion that absolutely anything a woman says is to be taken seriously is a FI construct. This goes hand in hand with the ” anything at all a person wants to do is okay, because EQUAL ” is also part of that bargain(?).

    The only exception to the FI rule is masculinity/men. Our ” weakness ” is being strengthened through legislation.

  75. whoa.

    look at that thing’s hands.

    they can cut a guy’s balls off, give him tits, put him in a wig, paint his face…

    but I guess there’s no surgery to shrink the man hands. so fucking gross.

  76. @scrib

    Gun to your head, it’s fuck Schumer or Cait – who do you fuck?

    Is giving a .45ACP a blowjob an option? Because that would be my choice.

  77. ^^^^^What Sun said, that was my choice.
    at least with Cait you could talk Sports, Schumer would just be snarky boner killer. Uggh.

    And that fucking NYT article, the bullshit is piled so high you need wings to stay above it. That having been said, there are definite cracks showing in the “The narrative” a lot of the comments are hard core RP without even knowing what RP is. The whole make men into better women and women into better men things is just not holding up to real life scrutiny for many.

  78. The trouble with the white knight savior schema is,typically an abused person seeks out another abusive relationship,over and over again,until they are able to see their own part in the abuse and stop the cycle.Very few white knights if any will be able to survive this relationship without becoming abusive in some way themselves.
    I am reminded of two women that came to my shop to have a door glass replaced,they made it known that they were living in a top secret battered woman’s shelter,for their safety.One of them made a pass at me,I pointed out my ring to witch she replied a ring don’t plug no holes.On completion of the repair she wrote me a bad check for the full amount.I came to a good understanding of why she was abused and requiring protection.
    This whole victim status common enemy friendship relation norm has gotten out of hand,and leads down the road to sickness,we need to learn responsibility for our situation and move forward out of the victim cycle.
    Another syndrome this causes is the predator victim cycle,codependancy at its worst.
    If you ask a victim of abuse,what they would be willing to change about their own behavior to get out of the cycle,not much.

  79. @Rollo re: OP

    So basically, a claim of ‘abuse’ works to smooth over any glitches in the matrix.

    Anytime a women isn’t acting in a way the bluepill lens says she should act, we can claim she was abused and this accounts for the discrepancy. Whether she’s being too sexual, not sexual enough, or sexual with the ‘wrong sort’ of guy or in the ‘wrong’ way, we can frame the whole thing as – or as a product of – abuse from men forcing her to behave in that manner.

    This plausible deniability thing really starts to look like a codependant relationship on a grand scale. Like feminism acting like a society-wide shit test, this dynamic makes men in general feel culpable of – and responsible for fixing – women’s poor behavior. Like how a person with BPD will, when acting in an inappropriate way, convince their partner that it’s because of how they’re acting. When she acts out, it’s because you did something wrong and she’s just reacting logically to your error.

  80. Re: Cait or Schumer – Very tough call. It depends. If I Schumer likes it really rough and wouldn’t call the cops, I would beat her mercilessly and only get hard once she was crying and begging me to stop, and then I’d only do her in the ass. But since Schumer would likely call the cops, I’d fuck Cait in the ass 7 days a week and twice on Sunday before I’d stick it in Schumer as she’s repulsive as a human being to me on every level. At least Cait was an Olympic gold medal winner, that would be a new flag for me, he he…

  81. I really like Deti’s take.

    How many times have you heard ” I really shouldn’t…” before engaging in some pretty mind blowing sex?

    “… I usually don’t do things like this..”

    What’s hard to gauge is what will her afterthought(s) be. What will they be 6 months from now. A year. Hell, a decade. Will you become a retroactive abuser?

    This is a poignant post because ” abuse ” is such a wide spread phenomenon now.

    Last night on a blustery ride home, I tried avoiding the conversation regarding Greg Hardy of NFL notoriety. Although I am a lifelong Cowboy supporter ( they have yet to write me one single check though…) I give less than a shit about Hardy because he is a team killer. Real asshole. Entire team hated him, so adios.

    But Greg Hardy was accused of domestic violence. He reportedly threw his gf on a couch full of semi-automatic weapons and threatened to kill her. He says he would never, ever do such a thing, but a judge disagreed and set him up for a trial/formality.

    The gf never showed to court and the case was dismissed. Whatevs.

    But really, no fucks given on my part. But after rolling through 6 different sports stations, all I heard were men/sportscasters passionately exclaiming that DV is horrible!!! And No Man Should Ever Put his Hands On A Woman!!! And that the NFL must do ” More ” about reigning in and punishing DV.

    But all I was thinking was ” they doth protest too much “.

    This went on for 36 hours so far, so maybe another 24 hours or so, and it will die down a little.

    But it’s the frenzy that bothers me, and the outpouring of concern and damnation.

    Forget that the definition of abuse grows every year ( remember the cat-calling shit? ) but it’s the legions of men rushing for their armor that is getting to be revolting imo.

    Everything is equal. Lol.

    In my life I have fucked plenty of women in all kinds of different circumstances. As bad as it sounds to say in the climate we find ourselves in, they were asking for it. No, really, I always made sure that they wanted whatever activity that was getting ready to go down.

    That doesn’t mean anything when women can look back and feel that I abused them by letting them rim my ass 5 years ago.

    I feel fairly confident that somewhere there is a woman that might just consider me part of her abuse alibi. Your Honor let the record show that ” swallow it ” is a request, not a command.

    Useless anectdote #43480

    I was having sex with a woman at one point. Fine gal, skilled gal. We never went to the movies or out to dinner or even for a fucking walk. Just to the hotel for all night sex. Everything was cooler than a fan.

    One afternoon she was deepthroating me to within an inch of my life, as she is known to do, when I neglected to inform her that my orgasm was imminent. Baby batter down the hatch.

    Her response was ” I only swallow when I”m in love..”. I laughed because I thought that was some kind of joke, but her demeanor changed noticeably. She was serious and very annoyed. Now, this chick blew me all damn day long. So much so that I used to pry her head off my rod.

    But now she was sullen and quiet. Now I’m concerned too.

    She disappeared to the bathroom for a good 15 minutes. I’m looking at the door…thinking…

    She comes out of the bathroom and jumps into bed, puts her head on my chest and asks ” you all good?” and I mumble ” sure “, and she falls asleep.

    What the complete fuck just happened?

    The next time we got together was the following week. She seemed back to her normal self. She was jamming me into her throat, and I retrieved my penis before blowing off. It was like trying to pull a rabbit out of an anacondas mouth.

    This was followed by ” A Talk “.

    I was interrogated about ” ma feelz ” so hard that I looked around for a waterboard in the hotel room. She asked ” If there are no real feelings here, then what are we doing??”. Aw fuck. I was braced for rage and emotion, but it didn’t really materialize. She just ended…it… ( fucking ). No more pussy for me.

    But she looked hurt. She said otherwise though.

    The police never showed up at my door, so in my head it’s all good.

    This post by Rollo brought this memory out of the cobwebs in my head and made me wonder, what does she say about our time together to whoever she confides in? I know I’m not spoken of in a positive light….but…abuser maybe?

  82. @stuffinbox
    “I am reminded of two women that came to my shop to have a door glass replaced”

    I recently replaced a windshield that had been beaten in with a baseball bat. The female owner had no idea why her car had been targeted… She smelled like a combination of seafood, cocaine, and old cum. She paid $250 with ones, fives, and tens. Lol.

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