Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Zelcorpion/status/599493741573971969

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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redlight
redlight
6 years ago

Emily the Virgin is blowing off steam, since she has to wait for marriage

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

And so we can add your faith to the list of things of which you are ignorant. Hell (as it were), it was Catholic revision of interpretation and of the Bible itself that prompted Martin Luther to pick up a hammer. If you compare your Bible to the oldest original (4th century) in the Vatican library you would find that they differ so markedly that they don’t even contain the same books. It isn’t the last hundreds of years that matter. It’s the first hundreds of years. One thing that Islam got absolutely, theologically correct is that there can only… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” I’m Catholic. I’m not a big fan of reinterpretation and revisionism of the Scripture” I saw something similar to this in Arabic on an ISIS flag. Fraud. I’ve seen all I need to see here. You sound so much like IB that I’m getting that familiar feeling that I’m getting some kind of infection by reading your posts. The only belief you’ve stated here that makes any sense is your feministic stance. Everything else you’ve said is IrritableBowel-erific. I deem you to be as FOS as the raging lunatic you purport to be here defending. Eventually ( I hope… Read more »

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@kfg

Ya, it’s interesting to note that the obsession with textual accuracy – rummaging through older and older versions, comparing words and tiny inflections of words, obsessing over incongruences in historical details – only happened after the reformation.

I mean, too little too late. But at least they put some back into it.

Meanwhile, the Catholics used a sloppy translation into the Latin, made largely from another translation into Greek, as the canonical text for centuries.

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Sockpuppet:
“Rollo, if I sound like Insanity I consider that a compliment. She’s a terrific writer….
She’s just someone I respect.”

Hahahahahaha….oh my days!
comment image

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@ravingIBfan:

“I’m Catholic. I’m not a big fan of reinterpretation and revisionism of the Scripture.”

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4d/4d9798a253d3aae8e0bf56a6f19cdcda38d5f5e9957fc68a896faa60dfb36bda.jpg

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Emily / insanity

“100 years of advancement in women’s rights”

You should say a 100 years of advancement in women’s N count + using pussy pass “impowering”

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

Correction, Emily the Born-Again Virgin, as she says on bendergenderroles:

I was sexually active during my teens until a few months ago

so all you guys looking for a low N count, well there might be some reinterpretation and revisionism in her sexual history

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Gloria steinem said it best,

“If women could sleep their way to the top, there’d be a lot more women at the top,” said Gloria Steinem during a Q&A with Jennifer Aniston last night at the first-ever MAKERS Conference.”
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4764866

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

@redlight,
Emily, “I was sexually active during my teens until a few months ago”

In another comment, she’s saying, she was having a problem that her boyfriend is watching porn. Poor little devil, she’s making him wait with her N count revisions.

Roused
Roused
6 years ago

Sorta late to the comment party here. Busy with day job. “Yoga is pretty cool (for me) but I didn’t go do it to be around girls. In the origins of Yoga it was probably either exclusively male or male-dominated. I think it is in the West that Yoga is seen as a female activity. That’s certainly how I was doing Yoga (or peeing sitting down, mind) – I don’t think Rollo is against any of those as long as you do it in your own Frame.” Yes, from my studies and conversation with male instructors who have studied in… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

The irony?
We believe in Tradition. Most of our Church’s teachings have not changed for centuries because it is grounded in the Sacred Tradition taught to us by the apostles. Protestants are the ones who read what they want in the scripture.

*gasp* No true Christian would do that!

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

Reading my comments on another blog? Come now.

Shawn
Shawn
6 years ago
kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Reading my comments on another blog?”

It’s the World Wide Web. Learn how it works or GTFO for your own protection.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Jeremy – I use ContactMonkey and there are other tools like Yesware – a google search of email tracking software will reveal a boat load of options. Sun is correct – it inserts HTML and some small number of spam blockers may overreact to it, but that is the tiny exception. I’m also not spamming from these accounts, so I don’t ever get marked as spam by a recipient. I now use Outlook after spending some time trying to work with Google for business. Office365 is a far superior solution and exchange servers work great with Apple’s mail/calendar so it’s… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Emily – So what did being a slut in your teens teach you? Why did you change your ways? At what point did you start to worship Christ instead of your tingles? Why? How about actually having an interesting conversation with us? Are you capable of it? Even more galling is that one can infer from your change in behavior that you see the sexual environment today to not be good for you and I assume other young people, yes? Now here’s the hard part, get ready, this is going to be a stretch for you, I know: Do you… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Shawn – I’m left unimpressed by either response. There is no reason to be a dick to a woman about having her period. Ya wash the sheets out and move on. You might ask her to wake up and deal with it or ask her to lay on a towel until she wants to get up to preserve your bed. There is no reason to be an asshole about it. Nor is there any reason to act like there is an emergency. Women get their periods every month and most can manage just fine without needing to bother their men… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Rollo – Indeed. I was raised a Catholic and spent some of my adult life as a devout one. Praying is a remarkable thing to do daily and the Catholic Mass still has a hypnotic pull for me. While I’m now an atheist, I had a lot of respect for the Catholic church and what it was in many communities. But to watch this Marxist, Liberation Theology peddling third world hack preen about his Progressive values as Catholic or Christian makes me sick to my stomach. For him to soften at all on abortion is an insult to every chaste… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

I love it when Catholics try to pull the “no real Christian” ploy, The Catholic faith is no less guilty of revisionism than any other Christian sect. They just did it so long ago that everyone forgets about it. The bible they use was filled with hand picked stories, translated numerous times, by men with an agenda. But don’t let that stop anyone from claiming moral superiority!

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

@teddj4g I didn’t claim moral superiority, I just said that unlike Protestants, I am not interested in modern reinterpretations of the Bible. I’m not going to open to Bible and say ‘hmm, I can’t find a line that exactly says that husbands shouldn’t flirt with other women to invoke dread in their wives’ so maybe centuries of teachings is wrong? No that’s nonsense. @scribble “So what did being a slut in your teens teach you?” I wasn’t a slut. I was manipulated and used by a few guys when I was very young. Other than that I’ve only been w… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Emiy – so modern interpretations are bad, but old ones are good? Lol. What makes you think those old dudes gotr it right back then?

D Man
D Man
6 years ago

A great post Rollo, I went on vacation alone to Menorca and had some definite peak experiences. This post has given me a new insight, but reinforced that a woman wants to share in a mans reality. One thing that’s definitely true is loneliness is not a disease that nessecitates a cure but rather an opportunity to master your surroundings and create a positive, confident from for women to enter.

A more real thing to fear is to be trapped in a lonely or unhealthy LTR

Dan

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

Come now Rollo, here are just a few of the words you and your readers have used for women over 28-30 ‘shriveled,’ ‘used up,’ ‘riding the cock-carousel for 10 years,’ ‘decayed’ ‘post-wall slut.’ And there is worse on Roosh’s blog, but I won’t lump his disgusting filth with your posts. I read a lot of these articles Rollo, cause a month ago I was very depressed that I had passed my peak cause I came across articles saying women peaked at 15-19. In a recent post of yours you said that since our smv declines as we age (not always… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“In a recent post of yours you said that since our smv declines as we age (not always true)”

hahahahahahahahahaha!

Remember this bullshit when you’re 60.

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“I read a lot of these articles Rollo, cause a month ago I was very depressed that I had passed my peak cause I came across articles saying women peaked at 15-19.” If you are that impacted by what you read in a commentary section of internet space an unmoderated forum is not the place for you. There are lots of safe spaces out there that will allow you to keep your ego intact even while you “let off steam” by attack others, such places while protect you from any non-approved responses. Of course, no one who disagrees with you… Read more »

bob bitchin
bob bitchin
6 years ago

@rollo u rock dude. any chance u can do an essay about how women try to impose bullshit togetherness time:opera, ballet and assorted crap that most guys dont want to do.

@emily
the only time i want you to open your mouth is when i stick my cock in. that includes keyboarding. if you werent so horrific to look at one of us would make you their slave. please look elsewhere. our standards are much too high.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . they’ll try to get a girl who’s 20-25?”

Nah, 16 year olds dig broke ass musicians.

” . . . that won’t happen and they’ll be forever alone.”

If every woman in the world were sent to Mars (I hear tell they need women), the world population would still be a billion more than it was in my youth. Not nearly alone enough for my taste.

Sit down, because this may come as quite a shock to your system, but “alone” does not mean “without a woman nagging you.”

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Emily: “There is no such thing as ‘asshole game.’ Most women do want commitment. Most of us are not sluts with double digit ‘notch counts.’ Most of us also dislike radical feminists. Invoking dread in your wife will most likely make her leave you. etc.” http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/content/images/mj-popcorn.gif Women always come here to try and disqualify facts men have come learn about their NATURE….this is just how you are….we’ve accepted that! And though you all look for commitment, you also CAN be sluts….this is your firmware…No problem being a slut for your man. Though ‘most’ of you dislike radical feminists you partake… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
6 years ago
Reply to  kobayashii1681

The pic of the kid in the suit is straight gangster! Good one.

Bee
Bee
6 years ago

@Emily,

“@scribble
“So what did being a slut in your teens teach you?”
I wasn’t a slut. I was manipulated and used by a few guys when I was very young. Other than that I’ve only been w my current bf who I’m going to marry.”

You have not owned and taken personal responsibility for fornicating with those guys. Instead you are telling yourself that they used you and manipulated you. You are dodging your own actions and your own responsibility.

Until you own it and take the blame for what you did, you have not really repented.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Emily – Here’s a link for you. http://wrvo.org/post/dads-vs-cads-biological-reasons-who-wins-womans-heart#stream/0

This is the basis for why “asshole game” works.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Emily – What’s going on here is men learning to manipulate the hindbrains of women – we’ve been let behind the curtain. We know that women have no magic, just pussy. Remember, this is not an exclusively or explicitly Christian space, so don’t expect the deference (Blue Pill programming) women get in that community. I did 50 years of being a gentleman, a thankless endeavor, but I finally wised up and that shit is over. Women screamed “Equality” at me for my whole fucking life – fine, here’s what equality looks like from me. As the men here, I talk… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Emily – If any of those guys who “manipulated” you also gave you one or more orgasms, can you tell us that as well? It would provide crucial “context”…

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

Cuz honestly Rollo I think that advice is going to leave your readers in a bad place.. They’ll avoid LTRs until they are 35, and then what? They’ll be too disgusted of ‘post wall sluts’ and ‘women with baggage (divorced women)’ and so, they’ll try to get a girl who’s 20-25? Unless they are rich (iwc golddiggers) that won’t happen and they’ll be forever alone.
It takes special intelligence to conclude that at the height of SMV a man has little to no value

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Benfromtexas: straight gangster bruv! Have to get a t-shirt made with it!
@Scribblerg: On Emily providing “context”….Haha! Nice….

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

@CaveClown My stepmom is 26 and keeps looking better every year. Also you really believe male value keeps increasing? Come on, I don’t know a single girl my age whos dating a man near or over 30. Men have puberty after women sure, so their looks remain intact for.. 4 years longer. But their peak is like 26, looks wise, for most of them. And most are NOT gonna be rich so your SMV will be less at 35. @Liz True Liz, but I also know staying in a safe space is dangerous and leaves one ignorant of reality. I,… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago

Oh Lord Emily… I happen to have insomnia tonight so I’m glad I saw your comments here… yes, of course, we’re still on good terms. I loved talking to you. But seriously, this is not the place to try to have intellectual discussion with angry men. Listen to Liz’s counsel about rarely commenting here – or at least being careful when you do so. :/

stuttie
6 years ago

Men get angry at 20 y/o intellectual midgets that invade this space, insult the host, and try to hijack the thread ultimately diverting the narrative away from the original topic.

But in any case, anger is a legitimate emotion in the face of injustice. Its important to remember that passive acceptance of evil is not a virtue.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

^ Intellectual midget.. unlike you guys, huh? Lets see now.. “the only time i want you to open your mouth is when i stick my cock in. that includes keyboarding. if you werent so horrific to look at one of us would make you their slave. please look elsewhere. our standards are much too high.” High intellectual standards, indeed. I’m careful Dragonfly. What will a bunch of old men having their mid life crisis do to me? It’s just sad that they are currently polluting Larry’s blog. I may have to stop commenting there, though I guess/hope this crowd won’t… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago

They won’t be there long… he is a different kind of man than they are, I love his blog, truly… but these men will bore of him. Most of them have been chewed up and spit out, most have lost their families, have partial access to their children, and are just surviving in cycles of depression, hope, then despair. They’re jaded, darkened, hollow, shells of the man that BGR is, but most of that is because he kept his faith and didn’t let it turn him bitter. Most of them have probably lost their goodness (what God intended for them… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Ok Rollo.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

Yes, it was quite cute 😛

All true… Honestly I hope while they are there (at BGR) they embrace God, because God can help them far better than this red pill crap. And honestly, I would have liked to help them if they weren’t all so rude to me.
Course, nothing like that is ever gonna happen.

Seems like we both have insomnia!

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

Glad you posted though that should at least clear up for them that I am not insanity.. smh

stuttie
6 years ago

You may not be Insanity but you are still insane.

How about you stop polluting this blog and spare us all your delusional religious waffle.

Mid life crisis – pffft you idiot, its a mid life awakening http://therationalmale.com/2012/11/19/mid-life-crisis/

Do some actual reading here before you sprout your cockbreath mouth off.

and nice try…please don’t flatter yourself – no one here was flirting with you and we don’t need nor want your “help” you arrogant tart.

hey blowfly/emily – a good cure for insomnia is a nice big stiff one…maybe try it sometime.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

Most of them have been chewed up and spit out, most have lost their families, have partial access to their children, and are just surviving in cycles of depression, hope, then despair. They’re jaded, darkened, hollow, shells of the man that BGR is, but most of that is because he kept his faith and didn’t let it turn him bitter so we are emotional zombies, the walking dread I would have liked to help them if they weren’t all so rude to me once we turn into zombies there’s no going back, and all we want to do is feed… Read more »

Roused
Roused
6 years ago

It would be a miracle if trolls could just stay on topic of the thread. Rollo has a very firm policy about not moderating comments, which I applaud. Downside is that threads go off into the weeds with certain commenters as they forget what blog they are on and don’t have the social common sense or courtesy to stay on topic.

Rollo, how about a post on Don’t Take Women Blogging?

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“Rollo, how about a post on Don’t Take Women Blogging?” I just LOVE sushi! 😛 Emily: “That appreciation only came after reading these blogs. So while this all makes me angry, it’s also constructive – for me at least.” That’s fine, but what you described above wasn’t anger, but “extreme depression” over what you read. If you are experiencing depression, you probably shouldn’t read it. To me, coming over to a person’s blog is a little like being invited to their home. If I don’t like what I see, out of respect for the blog owner rather than throwing graffiti… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Heh, @Liz and Roused It certainly not a “problem” that interlopers such as Emily come along without any previous real understanding of what Rollo is discussing and illuminating for me. It reinforces the points he makes to us men. The interlopers will not get it and that is fine. As long as we get it to move along our own self improvement. Commenters are here to read and comment not because we have it figured out. But to continue to work on our own self improvement. I would like to point out that the interloper in question has a flawed… Read more »

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@ Emily : you wrote “Yes, I like that everyone finds him attractive. But I don’t ‘dread’ anything. My bf stayed with me even after I decided to be abstinent, he’s not going to leave me. That makes me feel secure in our LTR- and that’s what I like, not the dread. That’s complete nonsense.” You are almost paraphrasing Rollo, you want a man that could cheat. That is dread as described by Rollo several times. http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/16/the-gift-of-anxiety/ I think the original quote comes from an older post but that one has it: “Women don’t want a Man to cheat, but… Read more »

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Emily: “I like that everyone finds him attractive. But I don’t ‘dread’ anything. My bf stayed with me even after I decided to be abstinent, he’s not going to leave me.”

The prosecution rests….

“if it happens in front of me I hate it and tell the sluts to fuck off. But girls talk to him on FB etc. and there isn’t anything I can do about it, but do I like it? No…”

This is that “dread nonsense” you keep referring too, but hey, whatever makes you happy.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

@IAS
But I am not dreading that he may or could cheat on me. As I said, I like the fact that there is no chance that he will. There is a small, but important, difference between the dread that your husband could cheat and the knowledge that your husband is attractive.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Drgon bonding with Emily,

“I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with them, you can’t help them… it is masochistic like you said, and I’ve been there believe me. It was cute watching them flirt with you though lol.”

Emily : “Yes, it was quite cute :P”

The attention whoring is Un controllable DNA.

It’s fascinating how women (including Insanitybytes) would be the first to run away when they see a big Mediterranean cockroach flying toward them.

Ps,
I don’t understand(yes I do understand) why married women ( and women with boyfriends) come to the manosphere.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@ IAS Emily knows that once she has fucked him she has abdicated a measure of his power; when she has fallen in love with him (really, not just in her made up adolescent skill set sort of way) she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral (esp. for a woman in her twenties who moves past the wall into her thirties and is a mom) and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave him (esp. when he slips up in his burden of performance–his expected perfection). It is her final trump card.… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Rollo,

“If your step mom is 26 and you are actually 20 it sounds like your father is a pretty good example of exactly the dynamic I outlined while you were a freshman in high school:”

Slam dunk .
I can’t wait to see Emily’s hamster explaining this.

Arnold S.
Arnold S.
6 years ago

keyser Soze “Ps, I don’t understand(yes I do understand) why married women ( and women with boyfriends) come to the manosphere.” It’s the same reason that women who don’t have the inclination or desire to sleep with a certain man cannot accept the possibility or reality him not wanting to sleep with her to begin with. It doesn’t matter that she doesn’t want him, he must still want her. This is extended to strangers. It is akin to a religious person attacking atheists on the internet., their ego investment must be maintained. Any declaration of dissatisfaction or criticism a man… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Rollo, “Christian” women find the manosphere irresistible because it gives them the tingles and indignation their ‘safe’ christian-beta husbands and boyfriends don’t provide them with. As I was saying over at BGR, Christian men are far too ready to overextended themselves with emotionalism, comfort, rapport and anything else they believe will maintain their wives’ and/or platonic girlfriends’ sustained interest in them. They’ve been taught to defer to and respect women by default because when your potential wife is your only ordained sexual release their lives and happiness literally depend on their wives’ appeasement. They are pre-whipped by their own doing,… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago

““Christian” women find the manosphere irresistible because it gives them the tingles and indignation their ‘safe’ christian-beta husbands and boyfriends don’t provide them with.” That would include people like Stingray, Elspeth, Liz, and myself, Rollo… so you’re saying exactly what Insanity accused us of almost verbatim? That the only reason why we like learning about these things and sometimes comment here, is because we’re trying to emotionally cheat on our husbands? Or that you think our husbands are pussy-whipped and constantly let us do whatever we want? Of course not all of your readership are hollow and jaded, that was… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

My husband does it so much and so naturally with me, I’ve actually joked with him before that reading it felt horrible because it felt like he was gaming me – which of course, I never knew what game was before reading here. It did created a weird moment in my mind of like… “why does he do exactly what this says – has he learned it and is not telling me?” I even accused him of it playfully, and had him respond in a cute, dark way with his cutting slantly at me and say, “You’ll never know.” I… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

You have a different purpose here, you are a man and have the power to lead and even heal these men… something that women can’t do. I think only men can lead or heal other men when they’re like that… hence why Emily and I have no business trying to argue with them.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Emily,

“Cuz honestly Rollo I think that advice is going to leave your readers in a bad place.. They’ll avoid LTRs until they are 35, and then what? They’ll be too disgusted of ‘post wall sluts’ and ‘women with baggage (divorced women)’ and so, they’ll try to get a girl who’s 20-25? Unless they are rich (iwc golddiggers) that won’t happen and they’ll be forever alone.”

She has a very strong beliefs, BUT,
Her step Mom is 26 !!
Emily has strong beliefs indeed.

Wow, it is the contradictions, that women believe so strongly in, not the beliefs.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

If the virgin Mary was found in the manosphere, I think God is in troubles.

Ps,
No wonder God is always asking to be loved.

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Keyser:

“If the virgin Mary was found in the manosphere, I think God is in troubles.

Ps,
No wonder God is always asking to be loved.”

http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/516/5164498/2663310-3159383020-53892.jpg

Nice….

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m24NHZJ4v2I

Rita Hayworth , hate is very exciting emotion.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

If I could give women like Emily a purpose here on TRM it would have it be to develop a more feminine and complementary posture with their man. You seem to get that Dragonfly. A woman’s marriage depends on it.

Emily has no clue and if she follows the lemmings with a egalitarian equalism mindset, a masculine attitude, and a lack of understanding of the male experience, not only won’t she make it through triage in a to death-do-us-part marriage, she will fuck it up before it even starts.

http://therationalmale.com/2013/09/10/the-male-experience/

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Well I kind of screwed up that thought.

If I could give women like Emily and other women commenters a purpose here on TRM it would have it be to develop a more feminine and complementary posture with male commenters.

If women comment her with an egalitarian-equalism mindset, a masculine attitude, and a lack of understanding of the male experience they most surely will be mocked.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

Thank you for the links to the articles Rollo, I will have a look. Are Christian men betas? on the contrary the Bible encourages men to be alphas. It is the husband who should hear ‘yes dear’ not the wife. Yes, since monogamy is God’s design, a Christian man’s wife will be his only sexual release. That will increase the importance of his wife. You are right so far. But God, and not his wife, should be the center of a man’s world. Larry has talked about this before. When God is the center of his world, his wife will… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“To clarify, I agree that its terrible if a girl is denying her boyfriend sex for reasons of control. But I believe premarital sex is a sin. I told my bf that he can have sex with me whenever, he just has to marry me.” A distinction without a difference. (The assertion that a position is different from another position based on the language when, in fact, both positions are exactly the same — at least in practice or practical terms.) “We must judge this issue by what the Bible (or Church) says, not by what we think it says… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

When it comes to meeting Mr. Tingle (with money or without), all God’s bets are off.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

When meeting Mr.Beta, all God’s bets are on again, and Mr.Tingle was “manipulative”.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

SJF, it’s only a distinction without a difference if your statement ” is through interpretation, in other words, what we think it says” is true. Of course, that is absolutely not the case. Nearly all Christian denominations agree that premarital sex is a sin, since the Bible is quite clear on this matter. Anyway, I am a Catholic, so is my bf, and our doctrine teaches that sex is only acceptable within marriage. It is not an exercise in control, we are merely avoiding sin. That is absolutely different, but believe what you want.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

“So how’s that fit in with the guys you banged before he came into the picture?”

That’s when God comes handy.
I’ve fucked, a Muslim woman,a Jewish woman, all Christian denominations, I never hated them, in fact, I respected them ( some of them became “religious” again,which is understandable ) , I still love all of them, and I think God (whoever it is) is busy dealing with other more important issues.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

lol Rollo.. I started abstinence in April. Before that I was sexually active, also w my bf, because I did not take my faith seriously.
My abstinence is related only to my fear of God. It’s not an effort to control my bf. It’s certainly not that I’m not attracted to him.
Ofc there is also logic behind not having premarital sex, but I doubt anyone here is interested in that discussion. Thats why I didnt mention it here! I mentioned these topics on BGR bc they are Christian issues.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Your boyfriend sounds great Emily. Sounds like he is such a nice guy to suppress his desires. And after marriage you can really get at it. His desire is not an excuse for promiscuity, any more than your enjoyment of TV is an excuse for becoming an obese couch potato. Heh, to live a life of impeccable integrity, you must discriminate the source of your desire, so you know when to discipline your behavior for everyone’s benefit including yours. I’m certainly not saying that it is wrong for you to make him wait. As long as he is cool with… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/

Ps,
Rollo, This is one of my favorite post.
Women would dump God in a second for $ $ + tingle.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

It is remarkable how many men coincidentally find Jesus as soon as they go to jail, and how many women when they find a man who doesn’t turn them on.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

Oh, well thanks! 😮 “Self-discipline is when your highest desires rule your lesser desires, not through resistance, but through loving action grounded in understanding and compassion.” Excellent advice! Hmm.. Personally I think asceticism allows you to conquer desires that you are otherwise a slave to. A man who has mastered the desire of sex cannot be controlled by a woman who would make him work for it. Conquering your violent side means you cannot be provoked. So on and so forth.. “aggressive men (the men who are better at being men) are provided with desirable “equivalents” to gang aggression.” Essentially… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“What are men supposed to do when there’s no land to settle and no one to fight? One of the basic ideas of evolutionary psychology is that because human evolution occurred over a very long period of time, and then an explosion of technology thrust us into the modern world in a comparatively short period of time (recorded history), humans are more adapted physically and psychologically to the world as it was than they are to the world as it is today. Our minds and bodies are adapted to function in a harder world. The situations that make us happy,… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@All – So we are arguing with a 20 yr old, newly born-again-virgin girl? Lol, and she expects to be taken seriously? One of the best things about being an atheist and the RP for me is embracing my sexual desires instead of shaming them. It’s hysterical to listen to this dialog, truly. She’s done a mindfuck to her BF of epic proportions. Can you imagine, she’s fucking you and has fucked other guys and one day she’s like, “Yeah, I’m not fucking you anymore.” This is like some FI Jedi mind trick or something, right? The fact that the… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“So we are arguing with a 20 yr old, newly born-again-virgin girl?”

Don’t interrupt me. I’m not arguing with her. I’m running a routine. Emily would agree–a Second Set of Books is actually OK, right? After all, if it’s good for The Catholic Church, it’s OK for her.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Scribblerg,
” So we are arguing with a 20 yr old, newly born-again-virgin girl? Lol, and she expects to be taken seriously?”

The sad thing is , even a 50 y.o woman thinks like 20 y.o Emily.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

@Rollo,
It’ll be great if you write a post similar to war birds, something like , God’s brides ! ,or how some women uses religions.

Ps,
A Muslim friend of mine, got dumped by his Muslim Veiled wife who found her tingle guy, she even dumped the kids.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Emily ” I started abstinence in April.”

And I quit beating off last night.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

SJF,
“If a civilization is to grow and prosper, the tendency of men to break into gangs becomes an internal security threat.”
You seem to be associating prosperity with emasculation when that isn’t the case. Sure, the animalistic male traits get traded in for more ‘intellectual masculinity’ but really that’s just a result of technology and prosperity. See, you think ‘gang masculinity’ is necessary to challenge the establishment because for some reason you think men are currently oppressed. I don’t agree.

“esp. in Catholic Churches all over the world”
Church is about devoting yourself to God, not women.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“You seem to be associating prosperity with emasculation when that isn’t the case. Sure, the animalistic male traits get traded in for more ‘intellectual masculinity’ but really that’s just a result of technology and prosperity. See, you think ‘gang masculinity’ is necessary to challenge the establishment because for some reason you think men are currently oppressed. I don’t agree.” I’m not arguing for gang masculinity. Merely pointing out that is a threat to challenge the establishment. See my professional income relies on having “the establishment” intact and not have our country go into a decline if all the men decide… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Emily ,
“Church is about devoting yourself to God, not women.”

Obviously, the tingle Guys in your past fucked other women, and you wanted them to fuck ONLY you, and nobody else.
Then you thought, hey, if I ADVERTISE to be a good Catholic , they might stop fucking around.

A Definite Beta Guy
6 years ago

It should be noted that Lutheranism’s strongest principle is “Sola Scriptura,” IE, scripture alone, IE, not tradition. One of Luther’s strongest complaints was that the Catholic Church was following things that had NOTHING to do with the scripture. For instance, veneration of the Virgin Mary: Lutherans do not have any Hail Mary’s. It’s not in the Bible, it’s idolatry. Protestants, at least the early Protestants, were returning the faith to its actual, scriptural origins. This is also why the first thing the Puritans did when they came to New England was to MANDATE public education: everyone should be able to… Read more »

A Definite Beta Guy
6 years ago

I started abstinence in April

Some firm moral principle you got there.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

It’s funny how women preach , they actually believe we listen to them, we listen to womansplaining because we want to fuck.

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

SJF, you are not? Why are you arguing about gang masculinity then? :/ And if you don’t have issues with the establishment why say stuff like “perfectly cultured world in which men can now lean into and devote all of their attention to women’s needs.” If you are just pointing out.. well I am already aware of the danger. As I discussed with Insanity, this whole red pill thing is actually quite dangerous because if it catches on, we may see women rights go backwards a few decades. Either way, it is definitely changing some men, and therefore changing society.… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

“To clarify, I agree that its terrible if a girl is denying her boyfriend sex for reasons of control. But I believe premarital sex is a sin. I told my bf that he can have sex with me whenever, he just has to marry me.” A distinction without a difference. The good old hamster. Bedroom is already dead and emily needs ways to rationalize it away. The manosphere developed a simple model for such things: Women will break rules (sin!) for men they are attracted to and they will make rules for men they keep around but in fact despise.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“The Bible is an extremely complex book that takes years, decades to study.” And thus you are an ignorant child trying to explain to men who have been reading the Bible for 50 or more years how to tie their theological shoelaces. ” . . . tradition was established by the apostles. Jesus established a church here on earth with Peter as it’s head.” And one of those traditions is that teenage girls not be given instruction in the true teaching, nor be allowed to speak on such matters. ” . . .the scripture was preserved by Catholics, so essentially… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“If you are just pointing out.. well I am already aware of the danger. As I discussed with Insanity, this whole red pill thing is actually quite dangerous because if it catches on, we may see women rights go backwards a few decades. Either way, it is definitely changing some men, and therefore changing society.” Yeah, I was merely just pointing it out. Some women don’t realize the danger. But you and Insanity are smart ones. You girls “just get it”. The Red Pill sure is dangerous (even dangerous for some men) and can put women’s rights backwards a few… Read more »

A Definite Beta Guy
6 years ago

I agree the Lutheran principles are not ideal for good Christianity and a functioning Church was clearly intended. Unfortunately the Catholic Church screwed up and caused the Protestant Reformation: Luther was a Catholic Priest, after all. Luther’s theology is still superior to the Church’s of the time. The Church itself is simply beyond redemption, given that they put a Peronist in charge and have made clear their intention to sacrifice the whole damn tradition in order to be popular: see late 19th century Reform Judaism or Reform Protestantism to see how that ends. In a century, there simply won’t be… Read more »

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

@SJF If you are a regular poster here, I doubt you actually believe that. Idk, we’ll work something out. We aren’t in a LDR, we live together. @Beta Guy I don’t believe that. The red pill offers a lifestyle that is destructive for men and women. The Church is about worship of God, it always has been and still is. Many people think it’s ‘decrepit” just because Pope Francis didn’t say all gay people are going to hell, and because he said that we need to help the poor more. But ofc, that doesn’t mean it’s ‘decrepit.’ The Catholic Church… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

I’m not a regular commenter here, but you could go back and look. But your efforts would be better served reading some of Rollo Tomassi’s original articles which are well-thought-out. Rather than the comments section which tends to be groupthink. Emily, your boyfriend is blue pill? Do you expect him to operate in his own frame with his own free will, or should he cater to you and be of service to you at all times? Do you actually know the difference between red pill and blue pill as it relates to inter-sexual relationships? What do you think about the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . we live together.”

Is the poor, pathetic bastard doing “his share of the housework” while you read and comment on The Rational Male?

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

@Emily,
Have you ever swallowed your bf’s come?
If yes, were you disgusted? (I am 100% sure you were).

What about swallowing in your past?

Does your miserable bf knows you’re active in the manosphere( while he’s studying)?

Paulo
Paulo
6 years ago

@Emily: “My daddy took me fishing all the time as a teen.”

You must be really great with worms.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

@Emily,
I DARE You to tell your miserable bf to read the Rational Male Blog. I DARE you. You little manipulative ,hypocrite horny you.

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

Emily: “Idk, we’ll work something out. We aren’t in a LDR, we live together.”

Have you changed your sleeping arrangements?
Or are you still sharing and bed with “no goodies for you, mister, until our special day”?

Emily
Emily
6 years ago

@SJF, he’s not blue pill. I expect him to lead me and guide me as a husband, and he will do that well. Just cause he loves me and shows me respect and loyalty does not make him blue pill. It’s not a ‘fact’ that the Catholic Church is ‘blue pill.’ Free will comes from God, no Church can get rid of free will, and the Catholic church does not try to do so. All they do is teach us what Jesus and His apostles taught.. I can have sex with my bf, do drugs, not donate to charity etc.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Just cause he loves me and shows me respect and loyalty does not make him blue pill.” Heh, but submitting to the “no sex or you can’t marry me” certainly is. Certainly sounds more like suppression than self-discipline to me. Come on, he’s a handsome, muscular swimmer. The testosterone is probably coming out of his ears like steam these days. And if he goes competitive you better keep a close eye on him. Hope you know what you are doing. Normally a red pill man is aware of his options. And has free will. Normally red pill would be like:… Read more »

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