Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Zelcorpion/status/599493741573971969

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

776 comments on “Never Take a Woman Fishing

  1. And so we can add your faith to the list of things of which you are ignorant.

    Hell (as it were), it was Catholic revision of interpretation and of the Bible itself that prompted Martin Luther to pick up a hammer.

    If you compare your Bible to the oldest original (4th century) in the Vatican library you would find that they differ so markedly that they don’t even contain the same books.

    It isn’t the last hundreds of years that matter. It’s the first hundreds of years.

    One thing that Islam got absolutely, theologically correct is that there can only be one. The official scripture, exactly as originally written, can be the only correct scripture. They realized this because at the time of codification both Jews and Christians (even Catholics) could be observed altering both text and interpretation on an almost daily basis.

    You’d have to have pretty impressive endurance to shake a stick at all the different Catholic Bibles known to exist.

  2. ” I’m Catholic. I’m not a big fan of reinterpretation and revisionism of the Scripture”

    I saw something similar to this in Arabic on an ISIS flag.

    Fraud.

    I’ve seen all I need to see here. You sound so much like IB that I’m getting that familiar feeling that I’m getting some kind of infection by reading your posts.

    The only belief you’ve stated here that makes any sense is your feministic stance. Everything else you’ve said is IrritableBowel-erific.

    I deem you to be as FOS as the raging lunatic you purport to be here defending.

    Eventually ( I hope ) you will run out of steam and stumble off into the night.

  3. @kfg

    Ya, it’s interesting to note that the obsession with textual accuracy – rummaging through older and older versions, comparing words and tiny inflections of words, obsessing over incongruences in historical details – only happened after the reformation.

    I mean, too little too late. But at least they put some back into it.

    Meanwhile, the Catholics used a sloppy translation into the Latin, made largely from another translation into Greek, as the canonical text for centuries.

  4. Emily / insanity

    “100 years of advancement in women’s rights”

    You should say a 100 years of advancement in women’s N count + using pussy pass “impowering”

  5. Correction, Emily the Born-Again Virgin, as she says on bendergenderroles:

    I was sexually active during my teens until a few months ago

    so all you guys looking for a low N count, well there might be some reinterpretation and revisionism in her sexual history

  6. @redlight,
    Emily, “I was sexually active during my teens until a few months ago”

    In another comment, she’s saying, she was having a problem that her boyfriend is watching porn. Poor little devil, she’s making him wait with her N count revisions.

  7. Sorta late to the comment party here. Busy with day job.

    “Yoga is pretty cool (for me) but I didn’t go do it to be around girls.
    In the origins of Yoga it was probably either exclusively male or male-dominated. I think it is in the West that Yoga is seen as a female activity.
    That’s certainly how I was doing Yoga (or peeing sitting down, mind) – I don’t think Rollo is against any of those as long as you do it in your own Frame.”

    Yes, from my studies and conversation with male instructors who have studied in India yoga is dominated by males. It’s been to a large degree bastardized and commercialized by studios in America watering it down for women, which is annoying.

    “Yoga is useful for correcting deficites in flexibility. As like most things, Yoga Masters in India are almost always male. Men who do yoga for honest reasons are doing it because it is challenging and they are correcting a weakness. Women mostly do it so they can look hot in their yoga pants. :)”

    Yoga is a heck of a lot more than being about flexibility. It does help with tight muscles, aches/pains, arthritis etc… I tried it with my ex after a physical therapist suggested it as an alternative for severe back pain I was experiencing. In those blue pill days we saw it as a thing we could do together. I loved this blog post because Rollo is so damn right about this stuff. Turns out yoga being a mutual interest thing to do together was a joke. I took the practice seriously and began studying anatomy and the deeper benefits of yoga. The more I practiced and better I got the less the wife liked it. It worked out well when she quit going altogether and I took it seriously. She was lazy and full of entitlement.

    The practice became something for ME and benefited tremendously. I incorporated it into my life finding the physical benefits as helpful as the mental. Being an angry guy who wanted the fuck out of a shitty marriage in a blue pill mindset I took whatever relief I could get.
    Now a days my girlfriend and I take classes together sometimes, but not because we’re trying to find shit to do mutually, we just both happen to benefit from it, more about car pooling to save on gas. I like going solo more cuz she frankly talks too damn much after on the drive home and I want solitude.

    “Yoga is meditation to correct weaknesses of the mind, sometimes at the cost of doing permanent damage to the body. Calisthenics based on modern anatomical knowledge are the correct way to correct physical weaknesses.

    Yoga is not about correcting physical weakness, it’s about self discipline of the mind, and getting the body to follow. It’s also learning how to breathe and control your body. In the U.S. yoga has become fashionable and over taken by the whole feminine crap and turns off a lot of people. It’s full of goddess crap etc… That’s the pop culture yoga. The good shit is deep, mentally, physically and spiritually. Its about self, not showing off your tight ass in stretch pants.

    “The reverse backbends like the cobra and bridge are the ones to be particularly leery of. The spinal processes are there specifically to limit range of motion in that direction”

    Not necessarily, depends on your body. Weight training is no different. Know your body and avoid what will damage it, educate yourself. One doesn’t just walk into the gym and start jerking around weights. Do what works for you, make some goals. A good instructor knows how to help you avoid postures that are not for you. Bridge and cobra are excellent for me. You need to learn about your body, studying anatomy helps.

    It is not for everyone for sure, I know a lot of guys here probably think it’s only for women, whatever, I don’t give a fuck. Two weeks ago I attended a class on a Monday night. Dude pulls up next to me as I’m getting out of my Jeep and he from his Jeep. Chatted it up on the way in. I could tell right away the dude was an athlete. After class more talk and a good strong handshake (uncommon in yoga studios) and found out he plays football in the NFL. Came to class to work out tightness from a pounding on the Sunday field the day before. Yeah, bad ass tough guys do yoga, but very very few. Enjoyed talking with this dude more than any of the hotties lingering. By the way it’s easy to pickup at these classes, but sure as hell not why I go. Nuttin wrong with a bit of eye candy though.

    As Rollo said it’s about doing it for you, doesn’t matter what that is. Some of my best peak experiences were cross county road trips with buddies. Chicks would never have tolerated our obnoxious crazy assed good times, nor would we have invited them. Learned the hard way about women and camping. The ex managed to ruin a couple of gorgeous nights for myself and the kids when I used to pack’em up and hit a national park every summer with the fam. Bitched about bugs, bears…blah blah blah. Pain in the ass. Kids even thought she was a pain. A woman pouting in tent is a buzzkill for those who love mountains and the outdoors.

    I load up my tandem sea kayak onto the Jeep and paddle in one of the Great Lakes often. I can 3 days worth of supplies and gear on this, and dig finding new places to explore. I’ve enjoyed taking my son and daughter on excursions, but the best are always by myself late in the season, about now when no other boats are on the water. It’s what Rollo wrote about the snowmobile trek, only I’m on the water. Myself, the yak, a paddle and the water.

    Fishing, love it, so does my son. My best experience with my father was when he took one of my brothers and I on a lake all day. Caught a lot, cleaned’em and handed the catch over to mom who fried them up. Delicious. At Dad’s memorial service I shared this during a reading. I think he enjoyed the day as much as my bro and I. Just guys, it was best.

    To hell with Emily, IB or whoever she/he/it is. She/he/it is a distraction from the great thread you all had going. I was digging the comments until they got derailed by the troll. Some good adventures some of you shared, kinda cool to read this and how Frame is part of it. Never put any of this together before. Rollo again connects the dots and brings good stuff to his table. Reading YaReally’s PUA stuff is great and very interesting, but damn, great to read about something that is all about guys doing stuff without women.

  8. The irony?
    We believe in Tradition. Most of our Church’s teachings have not changed for centuries because it is grounded in the Sacred Tradition taught to us by the apostles. Protestants are the ones who read what they want in the scripture.

    *gasp* No true Christian would do that!

  9. “Reading my comments on another blog?”

    It’s the World Wide Web. Learn how it works or GTFO for your own protection.

  10. @Jeremy – I use ContactMonkey and there are other tools like Yesware – a google search of email tracking software will reveal a boat load of options. Sun is correct – it inserts HTML and some small number of spam blockers may overreact to it, but that is the tiny exception. I’m also not spamming from these accounts, so I don’t ever get marked as spam by a recipient.

    I now use Outlook after spending some time trying to work with Google for business. Office365 is a far superior solution and exchange servers work great with Apple’s mail/calendar so it’s a good solution for all my devices (msft laptop, ipad, iphone6+). ContactMonkey has an Outlook extension that just plugs in and also supports Gmail which most do.

    The benefit of the digital world is that we all signal behavior via our digital actions. I didn’t set out to track personal emails, it just happened as a consequence of setting it up for business but I found it very revealing. Multiple opens are the most interesting, and you can also usually tell when someone has forwarded it – you see all the opens on a forward too.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to find that 30% or more of the emails in your inbox are being tracked in this way. 🙂

  11. @Emily – So what did being a slut in your teens teach you? Why did you change your ways? At what point did you start to worship Christ instead of your tingles? Why?

    How about actually having an interesting conversation with us? Are you capable of it? Even more galling is that one can infer from your change in behavior that you see the sexual environment today to not be good for you and I assume other young people, yes? Now here’s the hard part, get ready, this is going to be a stretch for you, I know:

    Do you not imagine that the changing standards of female sexual behavior in society also has an affect on men? Do you not understand that much of what is going on here is actually about how men should adapt to the new, hypergamous world we are facing? That the old set of books men were left with is a suicide instruction manual for a man?

    Many of us here married women with the intent of having a family and settling in for life only to be frivorced/cheated on and dumped, losing our children along the way. Many have internalized “nice guy” values yet are ignored by women and don’t know why. Some have never had sex in their lives due to the fact that women always “aim up” and treat the bottom 75% of men like they are worthless sexually.

    And then we turn on our TVs or go to a movie and have to see men constantly portrayed as monsters or idiots or fools, while amazingly powerful and strong women run things and regularly physically fight and win against men twice their size. We see fathers presented as boors and saps, male corporate executives portrayed as criminals 100x times more regularly than in real life. And these days even when a male hero is portrayed, the man is always broken somehow, and is often advised and upbraided by a female child.

    It goes on and on like this, Emily. We don’t hate women here, we are trying to figure a way forward that has a chance of making a man happy. Many of us were stunned to find that traditional masculine values are actually good, as we have been so brainwashed to shame ourselves. You have to get how pernicious this all is for men too, not just for you.

    How about it, kiddo? You up for an actual dialog?

  12. @Shawn – I’m left unimpressed by either response. There is no reason to be a dick to a woman about having her period. Ya wash the sheets out and move on. You might ask her to wake up and deal with it or ask her to lay on a towel until she wants to get up to preserve your bed. There is no reason to be an asshole about it.

    Nor is there any reason to act like there is an emergency. Women get their periods every month and most can manage just fine without needing to bother their men about it. Cramps will sometimes be relieved by a lower back massage, and this is a nice occasional treat for your woman but the bottom line is that it’s her period. she can deal with it. The best thing a man can do with a cranky woman around is to leave anyway.

    I mean, I hope I’m not in a community where “period stuff is gross” is considered an appropriate mentality for an adult man.

  13. @Rollo – Indeed. I was raised a Catholic and spent some of my adult life as a devout one. Praying is a remarkable thing to do daily and the Catholic Mass still has a hypnotic pull for me. While I’m now an atheist, I had a lot of respect for the Catholic church and what it was in many communities.

    But to watch this Marxist, Liberation Theology peddling third world hack preen about his Progressive values as Catholic or Christian makes me sick to my stomach. For him to soften at all on abortion is an insult to every chaste Catholic woman on earth. Like my Mom, for example.

    My mother died as a result of childbirth, after being told by our family physician to have an abortion “or this child will kill you”. She was 39 and a good Catholic, very involved with the church and even consulted a priest our family was close to about this. She fucking died because she took her faith seriously – and now I have to hear this asshole give a bunch of irresponsible sluts the fucking free-pass?

    He’s passing out indulgences. If I met him face to face I’d punch his fucking lights out just out of respect for my Mom and many, many other women like her. I’m just sayin’…

  14. I love it when Catholics try to pull the “no real Christian” ploy, The Catholic faith is no less guilty of revisionism than any other Christian sect. They just did it so long ago that everyone forgets about it. The bible they use was filled with hand picked stories, translated numerous times, by men with an agenda. But don’t let that stop anyone from claiming moral superiority!

  15. @teddj4g
    I didn’t claim moral superiority, I just said that unlike Protestants, I am not interested in modern reinterpretations of the Bible. I’m not going to open to Bible and say ‘hmm, I can’t find a line that exactly says that husbands shouldn’t flirt with other women to invoke dread in their wives’ so maybe centuries of teachings is wrong? No that’s nonsense.

    @scribble
    “So what did being a slut in your teens teach you?”
    I wasn’t a slut. I was manipulated and used by a few guys when I was very young. Other than that I’ve only been w my current bf who I’m going to marry.

    “Even more galling is that one can infer from your change in behavior that you see the sexual environment today to not be good for you and I assume other young people, yes?”
    Of course! But I don’t think anything on the manosphere talks about how to change that, only how to survive it and abuse it.
    The irony is that I am actually quite traditional, as you can see from my posts on BGR, but reading a few articles here has made me lean sliiightly towards feminism.

    “treat the bottom 75% of men like they are worthless sexually.”
    Ironic, cause I’ve read several threads that women over 25 are worthless sexually.

    Anyway if this was a self-help site I would have never commented here. But it’s not. It’s filled with misogyny and delusion. There is no such thing as ‘asshole game.’ Most women do want commitment. Most of us are not sluts with double digit ‘notch counts.’ Most of us also dislike radical feminists. Invoking dread in your wife will most likely make her leave you. etc.
    It’s not good advice. I’ll maybe hang around here for a while longer just to see how deep this rabbit hole goes.

    Oh, and the Holy Father has not been soft on abortion. He’s criticized it many times, more than Pope Benedict.

    1. Ironic, cause I’ve read several threads that women over 25 are worthless sexually.

      Please C&P the offending quotes from the “several threads” where this was ever mentioned.

  16. Emiy – so modern interpretations are bad, but old ones are good? Lol. What makes you think those old dudes gotr it right back then?

  17. A great post Rollo, I went on vacation alone to Menorca and had some definite peak experiences. This post has given me a new insight, but reinforced that a woman wants to share in a mans reality. One thing that’s definitely true is loneliness is not a disease that nessecitates a cure but rather an opportunity to master your surroundings and create a positive, confident from for women to enter.

    A more real thing to fear is to be trapped in a lonely or unhealthy LTR

    Dan

  18. Come now Rollo, here are just a few of the words you and your readers have used for women over 28-30
    ‘shriveled,’ ‘used up,’ ‘riding the cock-carousel for 10 years,’ ‘decayed’ ‘post-wall slut.’
    And there is worse on Roosh’s blog, but I won’t lump his disgusting filth with your posts. I read a lot of these articles Rollo, cause a month ago I was very depressed that I had passed my peak cause I came across articles saying women peaked at 15-19.

    In a recent post of yours you said that since our smv declines as we age (not always true) and that male smv increases as you age (not usually true) that males have every reason to be ‘should be sexually and emotionally non-exclusive.’ Which is just another thing I find toxic.

    Cuz honestly Rollo I think that advice is going to leave your readers in a bad place.. They’ll avoid LTRs until they are 35, and then what? They’ll be too disgusted of ‘post wall sluts’ and ‘women with baggage (divorced women)’ and so, they’ll try to get a girl who’s 20-25? Unless they are rich (iwc golddiggers) that won’t happen and they’ll be forever alone.

    That’s not fair about the Holy Father. Read Laudato Si. He finds abortion disgusting.

  19. “In a recent post of yours you said that since our smv declines as we age (not always true)”

    hahahahahahahahahaha!

    Remember this bullshit when you’re 60.

  20. “I read a lot of these articles Rollo, cause a month ago I was very depressed that I had passed my peak cause I came across articles saying women peaked at 15-19.”

    If you are that impacted by what you read in a commentary section of internet space an unmoderated forum is not the place for you.
    There are lots of safe spaces out there that will allow you to keep your ego intact even while you “let off steam” by attack others, such places while protect you from any non-approved responses. Of course, no one who disagrees with you will be reading, but that’s part of the fun, isn’t it?

  21. @rollo u rock dude. any chance u can do an essay about how women try to impose bullshit togetherness time:opera, ballet and assorted crap that most guys dont want to do.

    @emily
    the only time i want you to open your mouth is when i stick my cock in. that includes keyboarding. if you werent so horrific to look at one of us would make you their slave. please look elsewhere. our standards are much too high.

  22. ” . . . they’ll try to get a girl who’s 20-25?”

    Nah, 16 year olds dig broke ass musicians.

    ” . . . that won’t happen and they’ll be forever alone.”

    If every woman in the world were sent to Mars (I hear tell they need women), the world population would still be a billion more than it was in my youth. Not nearly alone enough for my taste.

    Sit down, because this may come as quite a shock to your system, but “alone” does not mean “without a woman nagging you.”

  23. @Emily:
    “There is no such thing as ‘asshole game.’ Most women do want commitment. Most of us are not sluts with double digit ‘notch counts.’ Most of us also dislike radical feminists. Invoking dread in your wife will most likely make her leave you. etc.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/content/images/mj-popcorn.gif

    Women always come here to try and disqualify facts men have come learn about their NATURE….this is just how you are….we’ve accepted that!

    And though you all look for commitment, you also CAN be sluts….this is your firmware…No problem being a slut for your man.

    Though ‘most’ of you dislike radical feminists you partake in the madness of the last few decades without any concessions.

    As for invoking dread…

    http://memeshappen.com/media/created/Sit-down-Shut-up-And-Listen-meme-14582.jpg

    As a woman, we don’t expect you to understand, nor do we give a fuck, but, for entertainment’s sake answer me this; if your boyfriend was being chatted up, suggestively, by single, hot females, every time you were out with him, say they even gave him their numbers, followed him around, didn’t even acknowledge you…what would you do?

  24. @Emily,

    “@scribble
    “So what did being a slut in your teens teach you?”
    I wasn’t a slut. I was manipulated and used by a few guys when I was very young. Other than that I’ve only been w my current bf who I’m going to marry.”

    You have not owned and taken personal responsibility for fornicating with those guys. Instead you are telling yourself that they used you and manipulated you. You are dodging your own actions and your own responsibility.

    Until you own it and take the blame for what you did, you have not really repented.

  25. @Emily – What’s going on here is men learning to manipulate the hindbrains of women – we’ve been let behind the curtain. We know that women have no magic, just pussy.

    Remember, this is not an exclusively or explicitly Christian space, so don’t expect the deference (Blue Pill programming) women get in that community. I did 50 years of being a gentleman, a thankless endeavor, but I finally wised up and that shit is over. Women screamed “Equality” at me for my whole fucking life – fine, here’s what equality looks like from me. As the men here, I talk to them just as I do to you.

    I deal with you because some what you say is ludicrous and you don’t seem to realize it. Your predictable caricature of an online SJW princess type is just so precious, it’s cute. Imagine the gall you have to assert women are oppressed by men in this society in 2015. You don’t see it, you just bathe in privilege and don’t even realize it.

    Still, you will get hosed down now. It’s friday night and many regulars are catching up and will weigh in. I imagine at some level, the more the merrier for you, right?

    For me it’s ass, cash or grass – nobody rides for free…

  26. @Emily – If any of those guys who “manipulated” you also gave you one or more orgasms, can you tell us that as well? It would provide crucial “context”…

  27. Cuz honestly Rollo I think that advice is going to leave your readers in a bad place.. They’ll avoid LTRs until they are 35, and then what? They’ll be too disgusted of ‘post wall sluts’ and ‘women with baggage (divorced women)’ and so, they’ll try to get a girl who’s 20-25? Unless they are rich (iwc golddiggers) that won’t happen and they’ll be forever alone.
    It takes special intelligence to conclude that at the height of SMV a man has little to no value

  28. @CaveClown
    My stepmom is 26 and keeps looking better every year.
    Also you really believe male value keeps increasing? Come on, I don’t know a single girl my age whos dating a man near or over 30. Men have puberty after women sure, so their looks remain intact for.. 4 years longer. But their peak is like 26, looks wise, for most of them. And most are NOT gonna be rich so your SMV will be less at 35.

    @Liz
    True Liz, but I also know staying in a safe space is dangerous and leaves one ignorant of reality. I, for example, hated feminism and adored patriarchy until I started reading stuff online. Cause all the men around me, with two exceptions, were and are incredible. But knowing the opinion of certain men, I now know that I’ve been taking what we have for granted. A lot of the advances for women were achieved by feminists fighting against men holding reactionary views, and I appreciate that now. That appreciation only came after reading these blogs.
    So while this all makes me angry, it’s also constructive – for me at least.

    @kobayashi
    ” if your boyfriend was being chatted up, suggestively, by single, hot females, every time you were out with him, say they even gave him their numbers, followed him around, didn’t even acknowledge you…what would you do?”
    That does happen a lot. if it happens in front of me I hate it and tell the sluts to fuck off. But girls talk to him on FB etc. and there isn’t anything I can do about it, but do I like it? No. Yes, I like that everyone finds him attractive. But I don’t ‘dread’ anything. My bf stayed with me even after I decided to be abstinent, he’s not going to leave me. That makes me feel secure in our LTR- and that’s what I like, not the dread. That’s complete nonsense.

  29. Oh Lord Emily… I happen to have insomnia tonight so I’m glad I saw your comments here… yes, of course, we’re still on good terms. I loved talking to you. But seriously, this is not the place to try to have intellectual discussion with angry men. Listen to Liz’s counsel about rarely commenting here – or at least being careful when you do so. :/

  30. Men get angry at 20 y/o intellectual midgets that invade this space, insult the host, and try to hijack the thread ultimately diverting the narrative away from the original topic.

    But in any case, anger is a legitimate emotion in the face of injustice. Its important to remember that passive acceptance of evil is not a virtue.

  31. ^ Intellectual midget.. unlike you guys, huh?
    Lets see now..
    “the only time i want you to open your mouth is when i stick my cock in. that includes keyboarding. if you werent so horrific to look at one of us would make you their slave. please look elsewhere. our standards are much too high.”
    High intellectual standards, indeed.

    I’m careful Dragonfly. What will a bunch of old men having their mid life crisis do to me? It’s just sad that they are currently polluting Larry’s blog. I may have to stop commenting there, though I guess/hope this crowd won’t be there long.

  32. They won’t be there long… he is a different kind of man than they are, I love his blog, truly… but these men will bore of him. Most of them have been chewed up and spit out, most have lost their families, have partial access to their children, and are just surviving in cycles of depression, hope, then despair. They’re jaded, darkened, hollow, shells of the man that BGR is, but most of that is because he kept his faith and didn’t let it turn him bitter. Most of them have probably lost their goodness (what God intended for them to be – true masculinity).

    I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with them, you can’t help them… it is masochistic like you said, and I’ve been there believe me. It was cute watching them flirt with you though lol.

    1. @Dragonfly, if your assessment of my readership is “jaded, darkened, hollow, shells of the man that BGR is”, kindly go fuck off.

      The Red Pill goes far beyond your assessments and much deeper than men like BGR are too fearful to go.

  33. Yes, it was quite cute 😛

    All true… Honestly I hope while they are there (at BGR) they embrace God, because God can help them far better than this red pill crap. And honestly, I would have liked to help them if they weren’t all so rude to me.
    Course, nothing like that is ever gonna happen.

    Seems like we both have insomnia!

  34. You may not be Insanity but you are still insane.

    How about you stop polluting this blog and spare us all your delusional religious waffle.

    Mid life crisis – pffft you idiot, its a mid life awakening http://therationalmale.com/2012/11/19/mid-life-crisis/

    Do some actual reading here before you sprout your cockbreath mouth off.

    and nice try…please don’t flatter yourself – no one here was flirting with you and we don’t need nor want your “help” you arrogant tart.

    hey blowfly/emily – a good cure for insomnia is a nice big stiff one…maybe try it sometime.

  35. Most of them have been chewed up and spit out, most have lost their families, have partial access to their children, and are just surviving in cycles of depression, hope, then despair. They’re jaded, darkened, hollow, shells of the man that BGR is, but most of that is because he kept his faith and didn’t let it turn him bitter

    so we are emotional zombies, the walking dread

    I would have liked to help them if they weren’t all so rude to me

    once we turn into zombies there’s no going back, and all we want to do is feed on you, and sometimes go salsa dancing

  36. It would be a miracle if trolls could just stay on topic of the thread. Rollo has a very firm policy about not moderating comments, which I applaud. Downside is that threads go off into the weeds with certain commenters as they forget what blog they are on and don’t have the social common sense or courtesy to stay on topic.

    Rollo, how about a post on Don’t Take Women Blogging?

  37. “Rollo, how about a post on Don’t Take Women Blogging?”
    I just LOVE sushi!
    😛

    Emily: “That appreciation only came after reading these blogs.
    So while this all makes me angry, it’s also constructive – for me at least.”

    That’s fine, but what you described above wasn’t anger, but “extreme depression” over what you read. If you are experiencing depression, you probably shouldn’t read it.
    To me, coming over to a person’s blog is a little like being invited to their home. If I don’t like what I see, out of respect for the blog owner rather than throwing graffiti on the walls, I leave.

  38. Heh, @Liz and Roused

    It certainly not a “problem” that interlopers such as Emily come along without any previous real understanding of what Rollo is discussing and illuminating for me. It reinforces the points he makes to us men. The interlopers will not get it and that is fine. As long as we get it to move along our own self improvement. Commenters are here to read and comment not because we have it figured out. But to continue to work on our own self improvement.

    I would like to point out that the interloper in question has a flawed mentality that she has volunteered here and on the other blog.

    She is using the female version of Buffers that 90% of men use in their self soothing for rejection of desired intimacy. (Before you object to my use of that word, understand that my definition of intimacy is when my woman partner says “thank you for fucking me”.)

    Rollo says: “Men of course aren’t the only ones who use buffers – women have their share as well – but I think it would be much more productive for guys to recognize this propensity in themselves and see the methods they use, and often ego-invest in their personal psychologies, to buffer themselves against rejection.”

    Emily is simply using a female buffer by not having sex with her fiance after having been “taken advantage of” (whatever that means) by her former boyfriends. And why not, with the current state of the Bonobo Masturbation society of the current matriarchal social conventions she can easily get away with it. But she is going to face the music with her future husband when she starts having children and kicks the can of sex down the road for him and continues to hide the vagina as the marriage grows older year by year. It is surely just a power tactic for her and she will use it ad nauseum in the future. To make him wait for it is the most profound blunder she will never see nor understand when things get rough. (Congratulations for her. At 20 years old she is about to enter the next five years as the the easiest time of her life that she will ever know.

    She needs to read and understand this essay. Or it is going to bite her in the ass when her future husband is bitter and frustrated:

    http://therationalmale.com/2013/06/26/you-need-sex/

    Her hide the vagina routine is simply a tactic to dominate her fiance. And she will win. She will dominate him in the future with all the Feminine Imperative social conventions at her disposal. But that winning tactic with become a hollow victory with each passing year. Like a dog trying to catch a car passing by (what is she going to do when she catches it?)

    She talks a good game of submission, but she will never submit. She has demonstrated this by her actions, ignore her words.

    And then it will be lack of respect for her husband down the road:

    Illimitable Men Maxim #24: “If a woman is with a submissive man trying to become dominant, she will utterly oppose him. She has accepted he is submissive and so she revels in the power her control gives her. If he becomes dominant, she loses the power and resources her monopoly granted her. And she will never forget his old ways. She will never really believe he is a worthy leader.”

    Not having sex with your wonderful boyfriend/fiance? YGBSM! That is certainly the epitome of playing with an adolescent skill set.

    Note that I am not addressing her directly, but using her as a point of discussion that I hope is illuminating for Liz and Roused and other readers. I think the interlopers are a case in point for the discussion to carry on. I have not seen one case of an interloper (who is ignorant of what Rollo really said) in the last two years that didn’t illuminate Rollo’s red pill points of awareness for men.

  39. @ Emily : you wrote
    “Yes, I like that everyone finds him attractive. But I don’t ‘dread’ anything. My bf stayed with me even after I decided to be abstinent, he’s not going to leave me. That makes me feel secure in our LTR- and that’s what I like, not the dread. That’s complete nonsense.”

    You are almost paraphrasing Rollo, you want a man that could cheat.
    That is dread as described by Rollo several times.

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/16/the-gift-of-anxiety/

    I think the original quote comes from an older post but that one has it:

    “Women don’t want a Man to cheat, but they love a Man who could cheat.”

    If you end up marrying the guy, at least he will be having more sex with you after marriage than he had before 🙂 I just hope for his sake that you are not an alpha widow and “Saving the Best”.

  40. @Emily: “I like that everyone finds him attractive. But I don’t ‘dread’ anything. My bf stayed with me even after I decided to be abstinent, he’s not going to leave me.”

    The prosecution rests….

    “if it happens in front of me I hate it and tell the sluts to fuck off. But girls talk to him on FB etc. and there isn’t anything I can do about it, but do I like it? No…”

    This is that “dread nonsense” you keep referring too, but hey, whatever makes you happy.

  41. @IAS
    But I am not dreading that he may or could cheat on me. As I said, I like the fact that there is no chance that he will. There is a small, but important, difference between the dread that your husband could cheat and the knowledge that your husband is attractive.

    1. @Emily, every post you make here only confirms every principle I’ve outlined since before you were in middle school. But like, just like Insanity, you don’t have the wit or the intellectual curiosity to actually read anything counter to the tropes that roll around in your head.

      You are a case study in exactly how the Feminine Imperative conditions women from the earliest age to believe in the social conventions it has prepared for them, but will ultimately end in their (preplanned) misery once the hit the Wall.

      You parrot back the same narrative that’s been around since before you were born and think they’re original wisdom to you. You have ego-invested beliefs about women and men and you have no idea where you learned them. You mouth back all these very old aphorisms and cutesy pablum while you think “everyone knows that”, but when those investments meet a real, evidentiary, truth that oppose them you predictably do what every other woman before you has – disqualify, deny and dismiss.

      Dread:
      https://therationalmale.com/2012/03/27/dread-games/
      https://therationalmale.com/2013/05/13/soft-dread/

      SMV:
      https://therationalmale.com/2012/06/04/final-exam-navigating-the-smp/
      https://therationalmale.com/2013/06/20/smv-ratios-attachment/
      https://therationalmale.com/2012/06/12/smv-in-girl-world/
      https://therationalmale.com/2013/10/25/smv-is-it-real/

      If your step mom is 26 and you are actually 20 it sounds like your father is a pretty good example of exactly the dynamic I outlined while you were a freshman in high school:

      https://therationalmale.com/2014/10/13/validation-hunting-the-jenny-bahn-epiphany/

      https://therationalmale.com/2012/07/18/the-wall/

      Read these. Educate yourself before you make an even great fool of yourself.

  42. Drgon bonding with Emily,

    “I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with them, you can’t help them… it is masochistic like you said, and I’ve been there believe me. It was cute watching them flirt with you though lol.”

    Emily : “Yes, it was quite cute :P”

    The attention whoring is Un controllable DNA.

    It’s fascinating how women (including Insanitybytes) would be the first to run away when they see a big Mediterranean cockroach flying toward them.

    Ps,
    I don’t understand(yes I do understand) why married women ( and women with boyfriends) come to the manosphere.

    1. “Christian” women find the manosphere irresistible because it gives them the tingles and indignation their ‘safe’ christian-beta husbands and boyfriends don’t provide them with.

      As I was saying over at BGR, Christian men are far too ready to overextended themselves with emotionalism, comfort, rapport and anything else they believe will maintain their wives’ and/or platonic girlfriends’ sustained interest in them. They’ve been taught to defer to and respect women by default because when your potential wife is your only ordained sexual release their lives and happiness literally depend on their wives’ appeasement.

      They are pre-whipped by their own doing, and their wives are put into a state of being emotional extortionists over them.

      So when their wives discover the manosphere or TRP they find men who don’t defer to them and call them out on every bullshit investment they’ve ever had with their husbands expected appeasements. And that’s exciting, they’ve finally encountered men who tell them “no” instead of “yes dear” and they can’t get enough of it.

  43. @ IAS

    Emily knows that once she has fucked him she has abdicated a measure of his power; when she has fallen in love with him (really, not just in her made up adolescent skill set sort of way) she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral (esp. for a woman in her twenties who moves past the wall into her thirties and is a mom) and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave him (esp. when he slips up in his burden of performance–his expected perfection). It is her final trump card. But of course there is no chance she will ever need that trump card (but she will wield the latter trump card when his wealth increases, just as she wields the former trump card as I type this). Watch what she does, not what she says.

    Roissy: Lesson for men: Commandment VII. Always keep two in the kitty

    “Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.”

    As a side note, I’ve had my balls busted by ScribblerG in this regard as a married monogamous man. (I am speaking of not having actual, rather than virtual plates spinning.) And rightly so by him. He has encouraged and enlightened me by challenging me. And it has worked terrifically well for me. So I would like to copy and paste how Rollo once described this. I had a soul searching on this and have come to retrain my mental point of origin to incorporate this into my current mindset.

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/

    “VII. Always keep two in the kitty
    Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need.
    I understand this may be a very tall order for most men, particularly those with scarcity mentalities. However, I would interpret this less as spinning plates while in an LTR and instead replace it with keeping your options open. One reason to flirt in front of your LTR is to establish the suspicion that you have those options, and then allay those fears. Again this goes back to being a man who could cheat, but chooses not to. Men think that their dependability and steadfastness makes for a sexualized woman – it doesn’t.

    Particular to relationship Game is this idea: Never allow yourself to be a “kept man.” Don’t make the mistake that I’m promoting infidelity by this, but rather think of it as maintaining an ambient, unspoken cognisance that, while she is a compliment to your life, she is not the focus of it.

    I’ll be very clear, I’ve never cheated on Mrs. Tomassi, but I do know I could be balls deep in pussy if we ever did split. I know this because I experience the receptiveness of women to whom I do flirt with. I realize this sounds like conceit, but even if I were completely in error about that receptiveness I do know I’m in better shape, have more Game and possess higher status and value than 90% of the men in my peer group. So keeping two in the kitty for me is knowing that I CAN generate options if necessary. This may or may not be your particular reality, but it needs to be your mental state.”

    I’m certainly not writing this to speak to Emily. IDGAF about enlightening those that I don’t think can make it through red pill triage including other men. Take it for what it is worth for you.

    I–like many of the enlightened men here in the comments section–am writing as a way of thinking to myself out-loud/in-writing for masculine self improvement and because it may help other men to elucidate solutions to problems they are working out in their own life.

    If a man like Emily’s fiance would have the mindset that she is going to only generate 30% of his completion in life, then he is better prepared to go forth and be better at being a man. It is a mindset that can keep and hold his self respect and so he doesn’t wake up one day and wonder “WTF has happened?”. And although she might be enraged by this thought (as a 20 year old with an adolescent skill set might), she will respect him better for it and admire him when they are another couple decades down the road. The Feminine Imperative and its social conventions are a terribly thing to kowtow to.

  44. Rollo,

    “If your step mom is 26 and you are actually 20 it sounds like your father is a pretty good example of exactly the dynamic I outlined while you were a freshman in high school:”

    Slam dunk .
    I can’t wait to see Emily’s hamster explaining this.

  45. keyser Soze

    “Ps,
    I don’t understand(yes I do understand) why married women ( and women with boyfriends) come to the manosphere.”

    It’s the same reason that women who don’t have the inclination or desire to sleep with a certain man cannot accept the possibility or reality him not wanting to sleep with her to begin with. It doesn’t matter that she doesn’t want him, he must still want her. This is extended to strangers. It is akin to a religious person attacking atheists on the internet., their ego investment must be maintained.

    Any declaration of dissatisfaction or criticism a man makes, no matter how unrelated he is to her or distanced from her orbit must be quashed. Every man must desire her because her desirability is her and she must be desired.

  46. Rollo,

    “Christian” women find the manosphere irresistible because it gives them the tingles and indignation their ‘safe’ christian-beta husbands and boyfriends don’t provide them with.

    As I was saying over at BGR, Christian men are far too ready to overextended themselves with emotionalism, comfort, rapport and anything else they believe will maintain their wives’ and/or platonic girlfriends’ sustained interest in them. They’ve been taught to defer to and respect women by default because when your potential wife is your only ordained sexual release their lives and happiness literally depend on their wives’ appeasement.

    They are pre-whipped by their own doing, and their wives are put into a state of being emotional extortionists over them.

    So when their wives discover the manosphere or TRP they find men who don’t defer to them and call them out on every bullshit investment they’ve ever had with their husbands expected appeasements. And that’s exciting, they’ve finally encountered men who tell them “no” instead of “yes dear” and they can’t get enough of it.

    True.Uber True, Uber Uber true.

    Ps,
    I wanted to copy&past this comment 10 times. Brilliant comment.

  47. ““Christian” women find the manosphere irresistible because it gives them the tingles and indignation their ‘safe’ christian-beta husbands and boyfriends don’t provide them with.”

    That would include people like Stingray, Elspeth, Liz, and myself, Rollo… so you’re saying exactly what Insanity accused us of almost verbatim? That the only reason why we like learning about these things and sometimes comment here, is because we’re trying to emotionally cheat on our husbands? Or that you think our husbands are pussy-whipped and constantly let us do whatever we want?

    Of course not all of your readership are hollow and jaded, that was not meant to be my view of the red pill or it’s entire community in general, just my caution to her that some of the men here are toxic for women (especially young ones like Emily) to be arguing with.

    1. Let me ask you this, how much of what you’ve learned here or in the manosphere have you ever picked up from your husband?

      If you’d never interacted with TRP, myself or the other bloggers you do, how much of what you’ve learned here could you honestly say you could’ve learned from your husband’s experience?

      Insanity falls under this too. Do you think her husband is even aware of her participation in these conversations?

      And you’re right, not all my readers are the angry, bitter, burned men you want to casually dismiss when you’re clicking with Emily or Liz. So don’t presume to know so much about them so blithely.

      These men come from all walks of life and all their experiences are different. Some of them are even our family members we hope will open their eyes to Red Pill awareness and save themselves from decisions that will impact their lives in the future.

      1. My husband does it so much and so naturally with me, I’ve actually joked with him before that reading it felt horrible because it felt like he was gaming me – which of course, I never knew what game was before reading here. It did created a weird moment in my mind of like… “why does he do exactly what this says – has he learned it and is not telling me?” I even accused him of it playfully, and had him respond in a cute, dark way with his cutting slantly at me and say, “You’ll never know.”

        I just never saw it spelled out in print before, or understood how it worked (almost like manipulation but that’s probably the wrong word for it). So yes, it really freaked me out to read it and then correlate it with how he acts all the time. Very disturbing, but then I was able to just accept it.

          1. You have a different purpose here, you are a man and have the power to lead and even heal these men… something that women can’t do. I think only men can lead or heal other men when they’re like that… hence why Emily and I have no business trying to argue with them.

  48. Emily,

    “Cuz honestly Rollo I think that advice is going to leave your readers in a bad place.. They’ll avoid LTRs until they are 35, and then what? They’ll be too disgusted of ‘post wall sluts’ and ‘women with baggage (divorced women)’ and so, they’ll try to get a girl who’s 20-25? Unless they are rich (iwc golddiggers) that won’t happen and they’ll be forever alone.”

    She has a very strong beliefs, BUT,
    Her step Mom is 26 !!
    Emily has strong beliefs indeed.

    Wow, it is the contradictions, that women believe so strongly in, not the beliefs.

  49. If the virgin Mary was found in the manosphere, I think God is in troubles.

    Ps,
    No wonder God is always asking to be loved.

  50. If I could give women like Emily a purpose here on TRM it would have it be to develop a more feminine and complementary posture with their man. You seem to get that Dragonfly. A woman’s marriage depends on it.

    Emily has no clue and if she follows the lemmings with a egalitarian equalism mindset, a masculine attitude, and a lack of understanding of the male experience, not only won’t she make it through triage in a to death-do-us-part marriage, she will fuck it up before it even starts.

    http://therationalmale.com/2013/09/10/the-male-experience/

  51. Well I kind of screwed up that thought.

    If I could give women like Emily and other women commenters a purpose here on TRM it would have it be to develop a more feminine and complementary posture with male commenters.

    If women comment her with an egalitarian-equalism mindset, a masculine attitude, and a lack of understanding of the male experience they most surely will be mocked.

  52. Thank you for the links to the articles Rollo, I will have a look.

    Are Christian men betas? on the contrary the Bible encourages men to be alphas. It is the husband who should hear ‘yes dear’ not the wife.
    Yes, since monogamy is God’s design, a Christian man’s wife will be his only sexual release. That will increase the importance of his wife. You are right so far. But God, and not his wife, should be the center of a man’s world. Larry has talked about this before. When God is the center of his world, his wife will not be able to control him. In fact, he will be able to ensure that she is doing her biblical duty in submitting to him. That’s why I think REAL christian men are the most masculine of men.

    Other things… I noticed I was mentioned in the latest article. I didn’t post there cause I don’t want to lure you guys in another long pointless argument. I understand what Dragonfly is saying now so I don’t plan on posting in another article. I was just initially shocked at the misogyny.

    To the people talking about my stepmom’s age vs my daddy’s… Note, I didn’t say that our SMV does NOT decrease with time. I said our SMV doesn’t ALWAYS decrease, and a man’s SMV doesn’t usually increase. Generally even a man’s looks are fading by 30, and the only substitute for that is money and most dont have that. Yes some men in their 40s marry women in their 20s, but they usually have money, and the women are usually in it for the money. It’s not a harmonious, godly relationship.

    About my bf and I, I don’t think I mentioned it here. You guys read it at BGR, and I posted it there bc it’s a Christian issue, its not relevant here. To clarify, I agree that its terrible if a girl is denying her boyfriend sex for reasons of control. But I believe premarital sex is a sin. I told my bf that he can have sex with me whenever, he just has to marry me. He agreed to marry after he graduates. As I said, it’s a Christian issue.

  53. “To clarify, I agree that its terrible if a girl is denying her boyfriend sex for reasons of control. But I believe premarital sex is a sin. I told my bf that he can have sex with me whenever, he just has to marry me.”

    A distinction without a difference. (The assertion that a position is different from another position based on the language when, in fact, both positions are exactly the same — at least in practice or practical terms.)

    “We must judge this issue by what the Bible (or Church) says, not by what we think it says or by what some scholar or theologian thinks it says.”

    Explanation: Realize that this is a clear case of distinction without a difference. There is absolutely no difference here because the only possible way to read the Bible (or Church) is through interpretation, in other words, what we think it says. What is being implied here is that ones own interpretation (what he or she thinks the Bible (Church) says) is what it really says, and everyone else who has a different interpretation is not really reading the Bible for what it says.

  54. SJF, it’s only a distinction without a difference if your statement ” is through interpretation, in other words, what we think it says” is true. Of course, that is absolutely not the case. Nearly all Christian denominations agree that premarital sex is a sin, since the Bible is quite clear on this matter. Anyway, I am a Catholic, so is my bf, and our doctrine teaches that sex is only acceptable within marriage. It is not an exercise in control, we are merely avoiding sin. That is absolutely different, but believe what you want.

  55. “So how’s that fit in with the guys you banged before he came into the picture?”

    That’s when God comes handy.
    I’ve fucked, a Muslim woman,a Jewish woman, all Christian denominations, I never hated them, in fact, I respected them ( some of them became “religious” again,which is understandable ) , I still love all of them, and I think God (whoever it is) is busy dealing with other more important issues.

  56. lol Rollo.. I started abstinence in April. Before that I was sexually active, also w my bf, because I did not take my faith seriously.
    My abstinence is related only to my fear of God. It’s not an effort to control my bf. It’s certainly not that I’m not attracted to him.
    Ofc there is also logic behind not having premarital sex, but I doubt anyone here is interested in that discussion. Thats why I didnt mention it here! I mentioned these topics on BGR bc they are Christian issues.

  57. Your boyfriend sounds great Emily. Sounds like he is such a nice guy to suppress his desires. And after marriage you can really get at it.

    His desire is not an excuse for promiscuity, any more than your enjoyment of TV is an excuse for becoming an obese couch potato. Heh, to live a life of impeccable integrity, you must discriminate the source of your desire, so you know when to discipline your behavior for everyone’s benefit including yours.

    I’m certainly not saying that it is wrong for you to make him wait. As long as he is cool with that. (And you are not just playing hide the vagina to control him.) It’s your call. And his. Just remember that self-discipline is not self-suppression. Suppression is when you resist and fight against your desires, keeping them as buried and unexpressed as possible. Self-discipline is when your highest desires rule your lesser desires, not through resistance, but through loving action grounded in understanding and compassion.

    From Jack Donovan’s “The Way of Men”:

    “If a civilization is to grow and prosper, the tendency of men to break into gangs becomes an internal security threat. Gangs of men always pose a threat to established interests. (Ed: The commentariat on The Rational Male is a gang of men with an agenda) “Equivalents” of gang masculinity have the potential to keep men invested in a given society, and to keep them from tearing it apart. Viable substitutes for the masculine “campaigning way of life” keep men from asserting their own interests over the interests of the whole, or of those in power.

    When men are materially invested in a society—when they believe there is more of what they want to gain by working for the group than by working against it—men will control and redirect their energies in the service of a prosperous society.

    When men are emotionally invested in a society—when they feel a strong connection to the group, a strong sense of us—men will control and redirect their energies in the service of a peaceful society as long as the most aggressive men (the men who are better at being men) are provided with desirable “equivalents” to gang aggression.

    As prosperity and security increase, and the need for men to hunt, struggle and fight decreases, the male desire to engage in gang activity can be controlled and channeled though simulation, vicariousness, and intellectualization.”

    And Emily it is most certain that religious asceticism is a surrogate form of intellectual masculinity in a modern, well regulated, prosperous society where a man doesn’t have to get off the couch and fight for his life or his gang. And gangs of men are anathema to the Feminine Imperative in modern society.

    Ascetic masculinity – the self-mastery and self-discipline of metaphorical masculinity leads to a tunneled focus on self-denial and the rejection of natural male desires for sex, food, worldly things, virile action, or violence. A good substitute for the old caveman archetype.

    What do you think about that Emily? You’ve flipped me. Now I am talking directly to you. Thanks.

    (Stay with me here, regular commenters, it’s not what you think. Hint: What YaReally would to link to Tyler Durden saying to a girl with a boyfriend)

  58. It is remarkable how many men coincidentally find Jesus as soon as they go to jail, and how many women when they find a man who doesn’t turn them on.

  59. Oh, well thanks! 😮
    “Self-discipline is when your highest desires rule your lesser desires, not through resistance, but through loving action grounded in understanding and compassion.”
    Excellent advice!

    Hmm.. Personally I think asceticism allows you to conquer desires that you are otherwise a slave to. A man who has mastered the desire of sex cannot be controlled by a woman who would make him work for it. Conquering your violent side means you cannot be provoked. So on and so forth..
    “aggressive men (the men who are better at being men) are provided with desirable “equivalents” to gang aggression.” Essentially asceticism may help you get over those ‘desirable equivalents.’ That’s another way of looking at it, I suppose.
    Ascetism was a big part of the teachings of Jesus and Paul. And there is wisdom in every Word of God.

  60. “What are men supposed to do when there’s no land to settle and no one to fight?

    One of the basic ideas of evolutionary psychology is that because human evolution occurred over a very long period of time, and then an explosion of technology thrust us into the modern world in a comparatively short period of time (recorded history), humans are more adapted physically and psychologically to the world as it was than they are to the world as it is today.

    Our minds and bodies are adapted to function in a harder world. The situations that make us happy, depressed or afraid have some sort of relationship to our ability to function in what some call the Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness. The choices we make in the modern world may seem “illogical,” but they reflect the kinds of choices we would have made to survive thousands of years ago. Think of all the time, energy and resources we spend on sex even when we have no intention of reproducing. Logic’s got nothing to do with it.

    Our primal bodies and minds still make their calculations based on the old data. Maybe this is a bug or maybe it’s a feature—just in case shit goes down.

    The first job of men has always been to keep the perimeter, to face danger, to hunt and fight. Men gather in bands and form a strong group identity. Men run through this pattern over and over again, whether it’s logical or not.

    But, once you’ve founded Rome…what then?

    Sometimes there is a good reason to make war, to identify them and mobilize our men against theirs. Sometimes there isn’t. Every generation of young men can’t be guaranteed a great crisis or war simply to give them an opportunity to explore their “demonic” primal nature or give their lives a sense of meaning. Starting wars for the sake of narrative seems frivolous, though I wonder if we do it subconsciously…out of sheer boredom. Sometimes men pick fights just for something to do—just to feel something like the threat of harm and the possibility of triumph.

    Most of the time, men seek out substitutes for fighting. In tribal societies, this was probably easy enough. Hunting is something like fighting, and that’s why men still do it even though they don’t have to. Play fighting—sparring—is part of learning to fight, and men ritualize play fighting with sport.

    If a civilization is to grow and prosper, the tendency of men to break into gangs becomes an internal security threat. Gangs of men always pose a threat to established interests. “Equivalents” of gang masculinity have the potential to keep men invested in a given society, and to keep them from tearing it apart. Viable substitutes for the masculine “campaigning way of life” keep men from asserting their own interests over the interests of the whole, or of those in power” Jack Donovan

    So as long as we all agree that we live in a perfectly cultured world in which men can now lean into and devote all of their attention to women’s needs (esp. in Catholic Churches all over the world) men should lay down their enmity towards women in the manosphere and on The Rational Male. Right Emily? The way things are is fine. Why all the misogyny?

  61. @All – So we are arguing with a 20 yr old, newly born-again-virgin girl? Lol, and she expects to be taken seriously?

    One of the best things about being an atheist and the RP for me is embracing my sexual desires instead of shaming them. It’s hysterical to listen to this dialog, truly. She’s done a mindfuck to her BF of epic proportions. Can you imagine, she’s fucking you and has fucked other guys and one day she’s like, “Yeah, I’m not fucking you anymore.” This is like some FI Jedi mind trick or something, right? The fact that the BF just doesn’t bolt is mindblowing.

    Head games, pure headgames.

  62. “So we are arguing with a 20 yr old, newly born-again-virgin girl?”

    Don’t interrupt me. I’m not arguing with her. I’m running a routine. Emily would agree–a Second Set of Books is actually OK, right? After all, if it’s good for The Catholic Church, it’s OK for her.

  63. Scribblerg,
    ” So we are arguing with a 20 yr old, newly born-again-virgin girl? Lol, and she expects to be taken seriously?”

    The sad thing is , even a 50 y.o woman thinks like 20 y.o Emily.

  64. @Rollo,
    It’ll be great if you write a post similar to war birds, something like , God’s brides ! ,or how some women uses religions.

    Ps,
    A Muslim friend of mine, got dumped by his Muslim Veiled wife who found her tingle guy, she even dumped the kids.

  65. SJF,
    “If a civilization is to grow and prosper, the tendency of men to break into gangs becomes an internal security threat.”
    You seem to be associating prosperity with emasculation when that isn’t the case. Sure, the animalistic male traits get traded in for more ‘intellectual masculinity’ but really that’s just a result of technology and prosperity. See, you think ‘gang masculinity’ is necessary to challenge the establishment because for some reason you think men are currently oppressed. I don’t agree.

    “esp. in Catholic Churches all over the world”
    Church is about devoting yourself to God, not women.

  66. “You seem to be associating prosperity with emasculation when that isn’t the case. Sure, the animalistic male traits get traded in for more ‘intellectual masculinity’ but really that’s just a result of technology and prosperity. See, you think ‘gang masculinity’ is necessary to challenge the establishment because for some reason you think men are currently oppressed. I don’t agree.”

    I’m not arguing for gang masculinity. Merely pointing out that is a threat to challenge the establishment. See my professional income relies on having “the establishment” intact and not have our country go into a decline if all the men decide to pull out like in “Atlas Shrugged”. (by the way don’t you admire Ayn Rand? A feminine writer if there ever was one).(And didn’t you like how through the female character Dagny Taggart, Ayn Rand presents sex as the sole act a human being can do only out of desire. And since it stems only from desire, it reflects with precision the true personality of that person, and the person’s most passionate wants.)

    I don’t care if you slept with jerks before, nor that you cut your boyfriend/fiance off. He must be a wonderful guy. Not many guys can do what he is doing for you and The Church. You guys are going to make a wonderful couple. What’s he studying?

    The Catholic Church cannot survive without women. So therefore women should be catered to. It worked for you to stop your sinful ways. It can work for other women.

  67. Emily ,
    “Church is about devoting yourself to God, not women.”

    Obviously, the tingle Guys in your past fucked other women, and you wanted them to fuck ONLY you, and nobody else.
    Then you thought, hey, if I ADVERTISE to be a good Catholic , they might stop fucking around.

  68. It should be noted that Lutheranism’s strongest principle is “Sola Scriptura,” IE, scripture alone, IE, not tradition.

    One of Luther’s strongest complaints was that the Catholic Church was following things that had NOTHING to do with the scripture. For instance, veneration of the Virgin Mary: Lutherans do not have any Hail Mary’s. It’s not in the Bible, it’s idolatry.

    Protestants, at least the early Protestants, were returning the faith to its actual, scriptural origins.

    This is also why the first thing the Puritans did when they came to New England was to MANDATE public education: everyone should be able to actually read the Bible themselves, so they could learn actual Scripture, and of course get read of those silly Catholic teachings that had nothing to do with the actual Scripture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura

    Protestants don’t start re-interpreting the Bible until the 19th Century during the Second Great Awakening: this is when you get a lot of those “revival” movements, in the early 1800s. The big ones are the Methodists, who had travelling preachers all up and down the American Frontier, with little regard to Scripture, and just having revivals like social gatherings to build the congregation.

    The Methodists, of course, were greatly tied up in the various social movements of the day, which is why the Seneca Falls Convention was held in a Methodist Church.

    Methodism, of course, was founded by John Wesley, and the Methodists founded a university for him, called Wesleyan University.

    I shouldn’t have to share that reputation.

    This section of New York also gave raise to some of the odder versions of Christianity, like Mormonism. It has its own unique name in history: The Burned Over District.

    Basically, Emily has no idea what she’s talking about, and by extension I assume this “BGR,” whatever he/she/it is, also has no idea what “xe” is talking about, much like I assume Insanity Bytes has no idea what she’s talking about.

  69. It’s funny how women preach , they actually believe we listen to them, we listen to womansplaining because we want to fuck.

  70. SJF, you are not? Why are you arguing about gang masculinity then? :/ And if you don’t have issues with the establishment why say stuff like “perfectly cultured world in which men can now lean into and devote all of their attention to women’s needs.”
    If you are just pointing out.. well I am already aware of the danger. As I discussed with Insanity, this whole red pill thing is actually quite dangerous because if it catches on, we may see women rights go backwards a few decades. Either way, it is definitely changing some men, and therefore changing society.

    My bf is studying marketing. His father has a business though so he may end up managing that. Or he could go further into competitive swimming.. I’m not sure tbh.

    Beta guy, sola scriptura makes no sense. First, tradition was established by the apostles. Jesus established a church here on earth with Peter as it’s head. This church was meant to guide all Christians, as it is still doing. The idea that everyone can be led towards God merely from scripture doesn’t make sense. The Bible is an extremely complex book that takes years, decades to study. That is why I look to my church for guidance about scriptural teachings.
    Second, the scripture was preserved by Catholics, so essentially the protestants are still using a Catholic translation of Scripture.

    BGR is not Catholic.

  71. “To clarify, I agree that its terrible if a girl is denying her boyfriend sex for reasons of control. But I believe premarital sex is a sin. I told my bf that he can have sex with me whenever, he just has to marry me.”

    A distinction without a difference.

    The good old hamster. Bedroom is already dead and emily needs ways to rationalize it away.

    The manosphere developed a simple model for such things:

    Women will break rules (sin!) for men they are attracted to and they will make rules for men they keep around but in fact despise.

    That’s what your feelz and behavior really mean.

    If you want to proceed on that way, start thinking about why you don’t want to fuck him after marriage because you will not want to. I guarantee. And you should also think about where you’re gonna have sex then. Cheating is also sin I believe?

    The right thing to do would probably be to send him here so we can tell him he should go for some girl who wants to fuck him asap and also what he should do to keep it that way next time. It would be better for both of you, don’t you think?

  72. “The Bible is an extremely complex book that takes years, decades to study.”

    And thus you are an ignorant child trying to explain to men who have been reading the Bible for 50 or more years how to tie their theological shoelaces.

    ” . . . tradition was established by the apostles. Jesus established a church here on earth with Peter as it’s head.”

    And one of those traditions is that teenage girls not be given instruction in the true teaching, nor be allowed to speak on such matters.

    ” . . .the scripture was preserved by Catholics, so essentially the protestants are still using a Catholic translation of Scripture.”

    Q.E.D.

  73. “If you are just pointing out.. well I am already aware of the danger. As I discussed with Insanity, this whole red pill thing is actually quite dangerous because if it catches on, we may see women rights go backwards a few decades. Either way, it is definitely changing some men, and therefore changing society.”

    Yeah, I was merely just pointing it out. Some women don’t realize the danger. But you and Insanity are smart ones. You girls “just get it”. The Red Pill sure is dangerous (even dangerous for some men) and can put women’s rights backwards a few decades. And then where would you be?

    Don’t you think you should encourage your boyfriend to start in marketing right out of college. I mean, I’m sure he looks good in a Speedo, but don’t you think he should provide for you (income) rather than pursue his passion in a pursuit like competitive swimming? How much money can he generate with that?

    And are you guys doing the Long Distance Relationship thing while he is at school?

  74. I agree the Lutheran principles are not ideal for good Christianity and a functioning Church was clearly intended. Unfortunately the Catholic Church screwed up and caused the Protestant Reformation: Luther was a Catholic Priest, after all.

    Luther’s theology is still superior to the Church’s of the time. The Church itself is simply beyond redemption, given that they put a Peronist in charge and have made clear their intention to sacrifice the whole damn tradition in order to be popular: see late 19th century Reform Judaism or Reform Protestantism to see how that ends. In a century, there simply won’t be a Church anymore.

    Also, women’s rights was pushed by crazy Methodists. Red Pill teaching is in line with correct, traditional relationships, which is why you can see Rollo and BGR agreeing on so much (I checked out the BGR blog).

    Note that my agnostic self and Cafeteria Catholic Wife have a more correct relationship than her religiously devout parents, where the wife constantly speaks in rebellion. This is not because of Church teachings, this is because:
    1. I am Red Pill
    2. My Wife sees failed relationships that are usually caused by rancorous females.

    The Red Pill has more to offer the world than the current, decrepit Holy See. Perhaps the Church can make strides, but I don’t see it happening. Another feminized place of “worship.”

  75. @SJF
    If you are a regular poster here, I doubt you actually believe that.

    Idk, we’ll work something out. We aren’t in a LDR, we live together.

    @Beta Guy
    I don’t believe that. The red pill offers a lifestyle that is destructive for men and women. The Church is about worship of God, it always has been and still is. Many people think it’s ‘decrepit” just because Pope Francis didn’t say all gay people are going to hell, and because he said that we need to help the poor more. But ofc, that doesn’t mean it’s ‘decrepit.’
    The Catholic Church is still extremely traditional. Complimentarian marriages, no abortion, no premarital sex, no divorce (not really), no homosexual sex etc.

    @lh
    How ridiculous, if I didn’t want to have sex with him why would I want to marry him? You are just trying to annoy me.

  76. I’m not a regular commenter here, but you could go back and look. But your efforts would be better served reading some of Rollo Tomassi’s original articles which are well-thought-out. Rather than the comments section which tends to be groupthink.

    Emily, your boyfriend is blue pill? Do you expect him to operate in his own frame with his own free will, or should he cater to you and be of service to you at all times?

    Do you actually know the difference between red pill and blue pill as it relates to inter-sexual relationships?

    What do you think about the fact that the Catholic Church takes a blue pill stance? (I am Catholic BTW.)

    What about that time in the bible when the Devil presented Christ with three temptations, all of which Christ rejected? In doing so he guaranteed that human beings would have free will.

    But the Church tends to think free will is devastating, impossible burden for mankind. Christ gave humanity the freedom to choose whether or not to follow him, but almost no one is strong enough to be faithful (like you and your boyfriend) and those who are not will be damned forever. According to the Church, Christ should have given people no choice, and instead taken power and given people security instead of freedom. How many people you know esp. in the Church can actually abide by free will and personal choice and not fuck up?

    If Christ had given people security and not freedom, the same people who were too weak to follow Christ to begin with would still be damned, but at least have happiness and security on Earth, rather than the impossible burden of moral freedom. You know like all the bodies plugged into the Matrix movie (with Keanu Reeves) being fed a wonderful blue pill virtual life? Instead of taking the red pill and unplugging from The Matrix.

    The Church has now undertaken to correct Christ’s mistake. The Church is taking away freedom of choice and replacing it with security. If people were if allowed to actually follow Christ and have free will, that would undermine the Church’s work to lift the burden of free will from mankind.

    The first temptation Christ rejected was bread. Hungry after his forty days of fasting, Christ was confronted by Satan, who told him that if he were really the son of God, he could turn a stone to bread and satisfy his hunger. Christ refused, replying that man should not live by bread, but by the word of God. The Church says that most people are too weak to live by the word of God when they are hungry. Christ should have taken the bread and offered mankind freedom from hunger instead of freedom of choice.

    The second temptation was to perform a miracle. Satan placed Christ upon a pinnacle in Jerusalem and told him to prove that he was the messiah by throwing himself off it. If Christ were really God’s son, the angels would bear him up and not allow him to die. Christ refused, telling Satan that he could not tempt God. Beaten, Satan departed. But the Church says that Christ should have given people a miracle, for most people need to see the miraculous in order to be content in their religious faith. Man needs a supernatural being to worship, and Christ refused to appear as one.

    The third temptation was power. Satan showed Christ all the kingdoms in the world, and offered him control of them all. Christ refused. The Church says that Christ should have taken the power, but since he did not, the Church has now has to take it in his name, in order to convince men to give up their free will in favor of their security.

    Ever since the Church took over the Roman Empire, it has been secretly getting rid of free will, not because it is evil, but because it seeks the best and most secure order for mankind.

    So I can see where you are not using this no sex thing as a power game (quid pro quo) with your boyfriend, but I don’t see where the Church needs to dictate it. After all you and your boyfriend are up for free will, not the blue pill narrative that the people need to do what what the Church tells them for their own security and they can’t handle free will on their own, right?

    Do you trust your boyfriend with his own free will? That would be red pill of him.

  77. ” . . . we live together.”

    Is the poor, pathetic bastard doing “his share of the housework” while you read and comment on The Rational Male?

  78. @Emily,
    Have you ever swallowed your bf’s come?
    If yes, were you disgusted? (I am 100% sure you were).

    What about swallowing in your past?

    Does your miserable bf knows you’re active in the manosphere( while he’s studying)?

  79. @Emily,
    I DARE You to tell your miserable bf to read the Rational Male Blog. I DARE you. You little manipulative ,hypocrite horny you.

  80. Emily: “Idk, we’ll work something out. We aren’t in a LDR, we live together.”

    Have you changed your sleeping arrangements?
    Or are you still sharing and bed with “no goodies for you, mister, until our special day”?

  81. @SJF, he’s not blue pill. I expect him to lead me and guide me as a husband, and he will do that well. Just cause he loves me and shows me respect and loyalty does not make him blue pill.

    It’s not a ‘fact’ that the Catholic Church is ‘blue pill.’ Free will comes from God, no Church can get rid of free will, and the Catholic church does not try to do so. All they do is teach us what Jesus and His apostles taught.. I can have sex with my bf, do drugs, not donate to charity etc. and still call myself a Catholic. I have the free will to do that, and it’s not like the church will punish me for doing that – though God certainly will. The church just guides us on the right path – the path to God, the real ‘red pill.’

    @Kfg
    lol he’s really busy in between training and studying. I do all the housework.

    I wouldn’t say I’m ‘active’ on the manosphere. Just this one comment thread.

  82. “Just cause he loves me and shows me respect and loyalty does not make him blue pill.”

    Heh, but submitting to the “no sex or you can’t marry me” certainly is. Certainly sounds more like suppression than self-discipline to me. Come on, he’s a handsome, muscular swimmer. The testosterone is probably coming out of his ears like steam these days. And if he goes competitive you better keep a close eye on him.

    Hope you know what you are doing.

    Normally a red pill man is aware of his options. And has free will. Normally red pill would be like:

    “If a woman, point blank says, “I’m not having sex with you until X,Y, and Z happens”, what is her MEDIUM telling you? That there is a precondition that’s more important to her than fucking you with genuine, uncontrollable passion. You want her to be so into you that she’s willing to break the rules. The ideal situation is for her genuine passion to be so uncontrollable for you that she’d renounce her religion and throw her convictions to the wind to be with you.That might seem a bit dramatic, but you get the idea. The good news now is that she’s being overt, which means she’s exhausted her reserves to be covert and, assuming you’re not so desperate as to delude yourself, you can NEXT her and move on.”

    He’s young and he’s busy, though, he can probably hold out for another 6 months. (I actually don’t know what the Catholic Church says about males masturbating either, but I’m sure he abstains from that too.)

    Maybe you shouldn’t read some of these Rational Male articles. (And definitely don’t let him read them. You probably should delete your browsing history.)

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/

    http://therationalmale.com/2013/06/26/you-need-sex/

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