Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Zelcorpion/status/599493741573971969

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

778 comments on “Never Take a Woman Fishing

  1. I actually suggested STEM is a bad plan if you are planning on being a stay at home mother.

    My Wife and her best friend both went to school for STEM and both their attitudes are that STEM guys are kind of…STEMmy.

    Most girls don’t fantasize about the guys on Big Bang Theory, which is why they aren’t stars in Romantic Comedies. This is probably misandrist, just like not hiring 37 year old Maggie Gyllenhal for a romantic comedy is misogynist.

    We should probably let the philosopher enlighten us on this. Probably an ontological question: misandry doesn’t exist, after all.

  2. ” . . . what you, and the others here, are saying is actually quite hurtful.”

    Shall we look for rhetorical peas under your metaphorical mattress every night?

  3. Omg @lh, that was actually funny! Bahaha 🙂

    Rollo, you preach domination and control, hatred for older women (“the wall” “used up,” “post wall slut”,) double standards on the subject of promiscuity (IMAGINE if I claimed to have slept with 40 men!), I could go on. Sure, you are more intelligent and less vulgar than your readers or other manosphere bloggers but still…
    I mean, your readers make comments like: “Because a man’s word is his bond, but a woman’s deception is her life.”
    He’s clearly a misogynist, I wonder why he’s on your blog?

    Though, I must say – at least you don’t cloak all the red pill stuff you say here in Christianity like Dalrock and co. I appreciate that.

    Lol at the misandry bs…
    Another thing that just annoys me here is the victim mentality. You guys act like the entire world is against you, when in truth the world belongs to you. We face far more obstacles than men in nearly any imaginable scenario, on a daily basis, and you guys have the gall to complain? FFS.

    @Liz, besides nursing what degree can/should a housewife pursue? I don’t buy that certain degrees are more useful than others for a housewife. There is no degree that prepares you for that, so I just did what I wanted to do. As an added bonus some of the courses really help me learn more about my religion, and ethics, which is very beneficial. My priest has a masters in philosophy, Pope John Paul II had a phd in philosophy.

    I really don’t get why you are so indignant. I actually WANTED to go to a less expensive college. Really, I did NOT want to spend 150,000 dollars on my education. Dad himself insisted, for reasons that you just won’t understand. Networking for example, I’ve met many people of good status here.. my bf for one.

    1. I don’t preach anything, I make men aware of the world that’s been pulled over their eyes.

      I make men aware of a feminine-defined social order that so thoroughly convinces 20 y.o. girls of their purpose they can’t tell you where they learned it.

      I make men aware of their intrinsic value and how to optimize it when it comes to its most vital point.

      It’s this awareness that scares the shit out of you. Men shouldn’t know this stuff, right? But I make them aware and it’s a threat to any woman’s potential of optimizing her own sexual strategy. This awareness places men in a position to enable their own imperatives above women’s. It gives men the potential to become the selectors instead of the necessitous selected, and that’s a frightening thought. It threatens every insecure hope Hypergamy engenders in women and puts that control in men’s hands.

      http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/10/the-threat/

      Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.

      Imagine what your boyfriend would think of you if he was privy to just the essays from Best of Year One.

  4. ” . . . for reasons that you just won’t understand. Networking for example . . .”

    For reasons that you just won’t understand, enter Ronald Reagan, stage right.

  5. @freeloader Emily the vagina,
    I’m 100% sure you laugh at your (spineless/loser) bf, why would any Man with options stays with a little bitch like you? I mean, why would any Man be with a girl who is in debt, wants to study what interests her, call her father “daddy”, her step mom is 26(??), uses religion to cover up her loser life style.
    What a complete fuck up , your bf is. That generates tingle alright.

  6. And you live with him and don’t fuck him too! Do you really think he’s got other options? What a fucking loser.
    Ps,
    You know that, don’t you, I mean, Deep, Deep, inside you pussy.

  7. “@Liz, besides nursing what degree can/should a housewife pursue? I don’t buy that certain degrees are more useful than others for a housewife.”

    You don’t “buy” it? Did you read what I mentioned above about hard times? You aren’t even married yet and may never be. So, for the third time, a smart decision would be to choose something useful for a married spouse. Assume you won’t have children right away since they haven’t been born yet. That’s a good time to pitch in. It isn’t my job to figure out the best career choice for you. Off the top of my head I’d say things that are easily portable (you’ll probably have to move around a lot for his job since he’ll need a good one to provide and that often requires moves) maybe something accounting, radiology, medical transcription, dental hygiene. Perhaps your spouse will open up a business so having some background knowledge there would work, or primary or secondary education, physical therapy, ect.

    “I really don’t get why you are so indignant. I actually WANTED to go to a less expensive college. Really, I did NOT want to spend 150,000 dollars on my education. Dad himself insisted, for reasons that you just won’t understand. Networking for example, I’ve met many people of good status here.. my bf for one.”

    I agree that networking can come in very handy, but you don’t want a job and don’t intend to have one and are only in school for the extended highschool experience, “activities”, and to read about “stuff that interests you”. Networking is job related. Unless…you’re looking for an MRS degree. Sounds like that’s what dad is hoping for. Better not disappoint.
    Per indignation: You must truly have no idea how you are coming across. It’s rare to read a non-troll seemingly genuine, earnest person who is so sheltered and removed from reality.

  8. Just a side note. I don’t want to dog pile Emily, honestly I’m hoping some of this sinks in…there are literally millions of people who spent time and money on degrees that are in no way useful to them.
    But I have to mention one more thing. Your living situation with your boyfriend. I’m obviously not privy to details there and it’s a good thing that you have separate actual sleeping arrangements. However. The dynamics of this situation…where you once had sex together, and now don’t until marriage, whenever that happens…I think subliminally you’ve lost respect for him. I don’t know how you could not lose respect for him, for putting up with that.

  9. @ Emily

    Darlin’, I sympathize with you not wanting to grow up and take on responsibility. I’m still going on 14 myself.

    I suggest that you consider that there might be things that you don’t understand at a gut level–especially the years of work that it took your father to earn enough to pay for your education.

  10. Emily, did you know that the intelligence and IQ aren’t the same thing? Given a static IQ, intelligence increases with age. This means that someone who is 50 with an IQ of 100 is probably going to be more intelligent than someone who is 18 with an IQ of 130.

    Experience matters, even if you don’t “get” that at a gut level. Once you get some experience (check back with me in 20 years), you will understand.

  11. Emily has a live in, friend-zoned beta orbiter to investigate strange noises in the early a.m., fix her flat tire, do honeydo’s etc. What’s not to like?

    I know, Emily won’t get it.

  12. Never “take a woman fishing” and don’t bother changing Emily. She’s got causa sui on her side. She can’t bother to read any of Rollo’s essays and understand causa sui. And she’ll take down her future marriage(s) with it.

    There is nothing wrong with her beliefs if she would emulate Christian women “that just get it” like Liz and Dragonfly. Two women that can actually think for themselves and adapt. They have skills that make them better at being a women. They embrace the feminine and believe in a complementary relationship with their man in a Christian context.

    Causa sui meaning “cause of itself” in Latin) denotes something which is generated within itself. This concept was central to the works of Baruch Spinoza, Sigmund Freud, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Ernest Becker, where it relates to the purpose that objects can assign to themselves. In Freud and Becker’s case, the concept was often used as an immortality vessel, where something could create meaning or continue to create meaning beyond its own life.

    In traditional Western theism, even though God cannot be created by any other force or being, he cannot be defined self-caused (causa sui) or uncaused, because this concept implies the Spinozian pantheistic idea of becoming, which contrasts with the belief of scholastic theology that God is incapable of changing.

    The Catholic concept of God as absolutely independent and self-existent by nature, and, consequently, all-perfect without any possibility of change from all eternity, is altogether opposed to the pantheistic concept of absolute or pure being [that] evolves, determines, and realizes itself through all time.
    Changing implies development, and since God is to be considered the Absolute Perfection, there is no further need to change.

    Emily, go back to your blogs that believe that men and women and their inter-sexual relationships don’t evolve, determine, and realize themselves over time. (And erase your browser history so your boyfriend doesn’t learn any new tricks and certainly don’t allow him to become better at being a man. That would put you at risk. Change–to you–would suck.The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies: For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.)

    And don’t mind us here–growing, changing and adapting.

  13. Rollo, you remind me of a story from a Christian context…months ago, a gal (G) in my Sunday School class suggested in front of her husband and my wife that the two of us meet up to dance at a place where her girl friend dances…never happened and I didn’t encourage it…when I was at a potluck at her house, another gal in our class instigates G, telling her not to fall backwards sitting in the lawn chair (she wasn’t falling). So G grabs the knee of the instigator and my knee, too, since I was sitting on the other side of G. (G was the one to come and sit down next to me.) I put my hand over G’s hand and see her husband giving me a quizzical look. I put on my own humorous quizzical look in response.

  14. Heh, like I said, they’re adaptable.

    I certainly think it’s noble that they fuck their husbands willingly with desire.

  15. Rollo, I assume it’s the internet and everyone can read me here, there, everywhere. I’m only a different person in respect to what I perceive will be allowed and welcome at a site. That’s just respect for the audience, not “changing” myself (example, bawdy humor and candor aren’t always appreciated…I have to feel that sort of stuff out).

    I’m definitely interested if you perceive I’ve contradicted myself somewhere else though, please point it out (here, there, wherever you want). I don’t want to contradict myself and it will give me something to consider.

  16. Rollo, SJF. I’ll show my bf this blog. I’m not worried.
    About dragonfly.. I doubt that she agrees w even half of what is said here.

    Yes Liz, I did read it. But let’s assume I won’t fall on hard times (I won’t) then what? Your entire argument is worthless.
    No, my dad is not hoping for an MRS degree. You don’t have to measure everything by monetary value. That’s why I was saying you won’t get it. You don’t get that knowledge is itself an investment. You don’t get that networking is useful even outside the workplace. And you won’t get that going to the university I do is a matter of prestige among the people we know (which is why my dad didn’t want me to be that person who went to the cheapest community college, or with no degree whatsoever.)

    Oh and now we are back to my living arrangements… fyi, I never said I don’t sleep w him. But ever since talking to my Priest about it, I often just stay at my dad’s house.

    “Yes, I know you will claim you have GAINED respect for him and all that…but that’s not how people actually work.”
    Correction, that’s not how people LIKE YOU work. You may desire a man who is controlling and abusive so you can feel like you have an alpha ‘red pill’ man but I’m not like that. I have great respect for him because he has turned his life around ( as I have) and has become a great Christian, which is the most important thing for me by a huge margin. I don’t give a shit whether you guys think he’s a beta. Why wouldn’t I respect him just because he’s chosen to be abstinent? Such a silly idea.

  17. “I don’t give a shit whether you guys think he’s a beta. Why wouldn’t I respect him just because he’s chosen to be abstinent? Such a silly idea.”

    We give a shit that you put him into a cubbyhole (and will continue to do so). The beta cubby hole. It serves your purpose. You won’t respect him if he continues to self-suppress himself in the future and slap a self-discipline label on it. Your current respect for him is a construct. Keep it for another couple decades and, well, ……good luck with that. Just don’t be a Dream Killer.

    And no, it is not silly, some of our livelihoods depend on not having our sexual strategies compromised by the Feminine Imperative and it’s social conventions.

    Your slip is showing. Your postings are a prime example of the intellectual value of this blog. Thanks for illustrating Rollo’s essays which you refuse to read because you can’t possibly understand the context. (And neither will your bf until another couple decades. Cause he’s going to Wait For It.)(And if you don’t believe it probe Larry Solomon more about why his first marriage didn’t work out.)

  18. How can any mortal man compete with that Super-Alpha known as Jesus Christ!

    lol

    Maybe with attraction? Or sexual arousal? Nah…

    1. God is just a “get out of Hypergamy’s consequences free” card for Christian women.

      A doctrine of unconditional forgiveness and male shame that comes from not abiding by it is a religion tailor made for the Feminine Imperative.

  19. “Cause he’s going to Wait For It”

    But SJF!!! She’s going to give him her sexual BEST if he just waits while she pretends to honor God by abstaining from sex!! He has proven himself worthy!!! Not like those other guys that only made her wet!!!

    Don’t you understand!? She RESPECTS him enough to not tempt him!!!! And he RESPECTS her enough to not force his unhealthy and unholy male sexual needs onto her!!!! He is NOT like those other guys!!

    She made MISTAKES in the past by fucking those other guys SJF!! But she’s atoned for them!!! She is doing RIGHT in the eyes of our Lord this time around!!

    What, you think she is going to withhold sex from him after marriage just because she has already been successful in insisting that he wait for it?? You mean now that that precedent is set, she might (will) use it against him in the future???

    What kind of misogynistic woman hating crap is that??

  20. “Why wouldn’t I respect him just because he’s chosen to be abstinent?”

    In previous posts, it didn’t seem he had chosen it.

    Maybe Emily’s bf decided to be abstinent and imposed it on her? I could see her respecting that. If she imposed it on him and he rewrote the narrative to make it his choice, that is weak.

    There is a simple way to test it: tempt him and see if he stops it.

  21. “In previous posts, it didn’t seem he had chosen it.
    Maybe Emily’s bf decided to be abstinent and imposed it on her? I could see her respecting that.”

    Yes, I noticed that as well. She also implied (upon inquiry) that her sleeping arrangements had changed, and now she’s implying that she is still sleeping with him (sexlessly).
    Maybe this is how people who have no need to either worry about money or ever be useful or concerned with anything in life except “prestige” communicate.

  22. “I’ll show my bf this blog. I’m not worried.”

    Oh, Yeah? Show him this thread.

    And start worrying.

    Illimitable Men MAXIM #2: “A woman never wants you to need her, only to want her. The moment your want becomes need – she no longer wants you.”

    IM MAXIM #3: “Women’s love is admiration built upon respect. Women are drawn to men of experience and power. Man’s love is respect built upon desire. Men are drawn to women of innocence and vulnerability. When a woman no longer admires, and a man no longer sacrifices, love is lost. It is a delicate balance, for respect is lost when either fails in their capacity. Man sacrifices, woman admires, that is love.”

    IM MAXIM #6: “There is an immutable animosity between the sexes that serves as the conduit for all distrust. This animosity flows from the inability of the sexes to reconcile their fundamentally opposed sexual strategies. For a man’s optimal sexual strategy to thrive, the woman’s must suffer. For a woman’s optimal sexual strategy to thrive, the man’s must suffer. Each sex is determined not to suffer, and so both inflict suffering on the other in a perverse determination not to suffer themselves. This is the battle of the sexes. This is reproductive war.”

    IM MAXIM #7: “The sexes desire to trust one another, but they wish to actualise their sexual imperatives far more. As such, trust is predicated on the degree of one’s control far more than it is any sense of blind loyalty.”

    IM MAXIM #8: “Women are followers, not leaders. They follow trends, status and power, not a sense of innate loyalty.”

    IM MAXIM #9: “The average man is ignorant and misled. His mental construct of women is far greater than anything the typical woman aspires to. This is not his fault, his biology deceives him, society lies and so the deck of deception is stacked. Nevertheless, the reality remains.”

    IM MAXIM #11: “You have been lied to about the nature of women all your life, disregard what you think you knew because it is probably wrong. Ignore the top-down preaching that society espouses. Reconstruct your understanding from the bottom-up.”

    IM MAXIM #12: “Cultures have always had a preferred sex. In some eras, men are celebrated; in others, it is women. There is no equality in prosperous cultures, only a cooperation where one sex recognises the superiority of the other. To realize which culture you live in, ask yourself who it is more acceptable to criticize. The sex it is least acceptable to criticise is that culture’s preferred sex.”

    IM MAXIM #19: “All past sacrifice is null and void if your continued association does not provide her with a tangible benefit. To simplify: if you cannot help her now, she does not care if you helped her before.”

    IM MAXIM #22: “Women don’t care about your struggles, only your successes.”

    IM MAXIM #23: “Women want the final product, but successful men value a woman who was there for the journey. The problem is, women detest risk. And so they have the propensity to hold back ambitious men with their petulant insecurities. Should he become too powerful, she fears she will lose her monopoly of him. She sabotages him to secure him, for the crab bucket mentality is intrinsic to women.” Refer to Maxim #22.

    IM MAXIM #24: “If a woman is with a submissive man trying to become dominant, she will utterly oppose him. She has accepted he is submissive and so she revels in the power her control gives her. If he becomes dominant, she loses the power and resources her monopoly granted her. And she will never forget his old ways. She will never really believe he is a worthy leader.”

    IM MAXIM #25: “The optimized female sexual strategy compartmentalizes the roles of men. We call this female sexual plurality. Women have a dual nature to control and be controlled, for their fluidity permits great perversity. With the dominant, she can satiate her masochism. With the submissive, she can satiate her sadism. In this way she indulges her lust for power with the submissive man, and her lust to feel feminine with the dominant.”

    IM MAXIM #26: “If she is with a submissive man, she prioritizes her happiness. If she is with a dominant man, she prioritizes his. With the dominant man, making him happy makes her happy. The submissive man’s happiness has no such effect, so she deems it irrelevant.”

    IM MAXIM #27: “Women will not go backwards in commitment, men will not go backwards sexually. Corollary: unless the man or woman in question has no better options, in which case they will, with misery.”

    IM MAXIM #28: “Women bargain for control over man’s commitment, men bargain for control over woman’s body.”

  23. Emily: “Why wouldn’t I respect him just because he’s chosen to be abstinent? “
    You probably wouldn’t. Nor would I.
    But if you were imposing it on him and he objected that would be a different matter.

    “But let’s assume I won’t fall on hard times (I won’t) then what? Your entire argument is worthless.”
    I think it’s always a good idea to have a useful skill even if you don’t fall on hard times. You never know what I day might bring. LIfe has a way of throwing a lot of unpleasant karma toward the arrogant.

  24. @red pillers of RM:

    Emily is young and naive, that’s why she doesn’t understand life yet. What’s your excuse?

    If you think that Liz and dragonfly are special snowflakes, you are as stupid as everyone believes you to be. Never occurs to you to ask how and why a happy wifey, busy with her happy family life and pleasing her alpha hubby, finds endless hours in the day to post numerous comments on multiple sites in the manosphere, humblebragging about her domestic skills and spectacular sex life, eh?

    As long as she panders to your fragile egos and validates your feelings, you walk right into and stay in her frame, the lemmings that you are.

    No fool like a red pill fool. But unlike the Emilies of this world, you can’t blame your stupidity on age. Try to think for yourselves just once.

    P.S. It was cute, too, how you fell for the ridiculous Hopeless Hypergamy troll on the other thread. Lol. No fool, etc.

  25. SJF, regurgitating mindlessly and ad nauseam these quotes from your cult’s handbook is not a substitute for cogent thought.

    It is disturbing to know that you are a medical doctor. Not terribly surprising, though.

  26. “Never occurs to you to ask how and why a happy wifey, busy with her happy family life and pleasing her alpha hubby, finds endless hours in the day to post numerous comments on multiple sites in the manosphere, humblebragging about her domestic skills and spectacular sex life, eh?”

    I know. How pathetic I am.
    Yet interesting enough for you to comment and fabricate a legend about me! I like it. Going back to polishing off my bedroom stripper pole now.

  27. Also, knowledge isn’t wisdom.

    Knowledge is knowing Dr. Frankenstein is not the monster.

    Wisdom is knowing Dr. Frankenstein is the monster.

    Also my understanding is that the Catholic church does not permit cohabitation prior to marriage. Certainly, when I had pre-Cana, this was the stated position.

  28. “At any rate, it’s confusing. But I’m not in the prestige crowd.”

    I have been. Started rubbing elbows with household names as a child. Went to a college (full scholarship) that rejected people who got into Harvard and Yale, and cost more.

    I assure you that the picture Stanley Kubrick painted of their lives is a lot closer to the reality than the one that Emily is trying to paint.

  29. Emily sounds upper middle or at most lower upper class, not upper class private jet type.

    If she was, she’d either be an alphas pet or going to school for law or similar. (Or both)

  30. I keep getting the image in my head of Mamaroneck, or some place like it. I have family there and hung out with a cute Yalie cello player who came from there for a while. It wears a good facade, but isn’t anywhere near as upper crust as it likes to present itself. Median income of about a hundred grand.

    Petit Bourgeoisie really.

  31. $100K? Shit, I made that much in the first 90 days of the year.

    I made 80 last month alone.

    How could someone live off so little? (I kid)

  32. @SJF
    It’s like..6 months of waiting. He’s mature, he’s not an overgrown teenager like you who’s only goal in life is to have sex. He’s fine with it.

    Why did you post all that? Surely you realize that I wouldn’t read it all? I stopped after ““Women are followers, not leaders. They follow trends, status and power, not a sense of innate loyalty.”
    complete crap. No woman believes any of that.
    Well, maybe Liz does. Not sure.

    @IAS
    ” tempt him and see if he stops it.”
    Well something like that did happen a few weeks ago, ‘cept it was the other way around (he tempted me and stopped me.)

    “In previous posts, it didn’t seem he had chosen it.”
    Which posts?
    Sure I was the one who started being abstinent. But I’m sure that even if we broke up now he wouldn’t have sex with anyone. He’s taking religion more seriously now.

    @Liz
    “At any rate, it’s confusing. But I’m not in the prestige crowd.”
    Oh haha.
    “LIfe has a way of throwing a lot of unpleasant karma toward the arrogant.”
    God definitely does punish those who are thankless and arrogant. Thankfully, I’m not one of them. I thank God everyday for what He has given me.

    “a lot closer to the reality than the one that Emily is trying to paint.”
    I’m trying to paint what? I didn’t even claim to be upper class. I don’t talk about my wealth or lack thereof. As I said before, people who brag a lot generally don’t have anything to brag about.

  33. “Am I on Candid Camera?”

    Perhaps she is employing Zeno’s paradox where statements mean nothing because nothing can ever be reached.

  34. ADBG: “Also, knowledge isn’t wisdom.
    Knowledge is knowing Dr. Frankenstein is not the monster.
    Wisdom is knowing Dr. Frankenstein is the monster.”

    There must be something extra that the proletariats without prestige have no access to.
    Maybe the hifaluting folks call it The Knowledge.
    Don’t confuse knowledge (something available to everyone with access to a computer) and The Knowledge (something available to the privileged class those outside “don’t get”).

  35. Liz – to an extent I agree. In Emily’s case? She’s young, sheltered, and naive. Simply getting older would help IF she left her charmed life for a few years.

    Life is an astounding teacher! Too bad it kills all its students. LOL

  36. Ted: “Liz – to an extent I agree.”

    Sorry, I’m not sure which part you agree with? I’m kind of getting lost the thread is long. 🙂

    “Life is an astounding teacher!”
    Definitely agree.

  37. Liz – just the comment on secret elite knowledge. She hasnt learned enough about life to understand it even if someone (like maybe a bunch of angry misgynysts) gave it to her.

  38. ” just the comment on secret elite knowledge.”

    I was being a little sarcastic, but you might be right.

    The Golden Rule: Whoever has the Gold, gets to make the Rules.

    The Sandwich Rule: Life is a shit sandwich… and the more bread you have, the less shit you eat.

    That was a stab at humor. But also true.
    There’s definitely a Veblen good aspect to going to the “right” university. This has always been the case, but more so now than ever. I’m not so sure it has anything to do with “knowledge” (but I’m a steerage schlep).

  39. Hey Emily, thanks for the compliment. I love to be called an overgrown teenager. And if my only goal was to have sex. That would even be better.
    I posted all that because I have been married five and a half years longer than you have been alive. (And unlike your father and L. Solomon all 25 years to the same woman). And don’t get any ideas–I’m monogamous–so the only person that should care about my sex goals is my first and only so far wife. Last time I checked it was OK to have sex with her. How pervy is that?

    I posted that so your bf can read it when you show him what you have been moonlighting on this blog with instead of the Christian blogs.

    Those Maxims are just that: short, pithy statements expressing a general truth or rule of conduct. You say no woman believes any of that, but it is women’s perogative to be covert. My wife or Liz knows those things are true, but they certainly aren’t going to overtly acknowledge those Maxims are generally true. That would be to give up too much ground gained in the war between the sexes.

    I also posted those Maxims to mess with your immature brain.To test you mettle. You need to think more critically. What you think you know at this point in life can get you in trouble.

    I certainly hope my 20 year old son doesn’t do something like your boyfriend is telling you he is going to do. (And WTF? your boyfriend mature? give me a break. I don’t expect my son to get married until he actually is mature (and not younger than 30.) Certainly not marry someone like you at a ripe young age just out of college. Someone getting a philosophy degree and can’t recognize wisdom from old married guys like Rollo and myself, instead of old divorced guys like Larry Soloman and your daddy. ( And please don’t tell me your boyfriends parents are divorced! Even if they are don’t tell me. I’m at lunch and don’t want to get queasy.)

    I haven’t met a girl in her twenties that thinks her future marriage won’t blow up because of her own stubbornness to learn and grow. They are all starry eyed idealists that were fed false information. And not taught to be feminine and complementary to her man. To not be selfish and not be a Dream Killer.

    You are familiar with the divorce rates, Right Emily? Of course you are and you don’t care, you will always have a support net. But your current boyfriend won’t have that luxury.

    Your maturation as a woman is clinically retarded if you as a philosophy major can’t even read something that is simply evolutionary psychology. It’s not even difficult profound stuff. It’s simply stuff you make difficult because of your ego investments.

    And while you have all this free time you should read a “hard to read” book on metaphysics. It should be in your college curriculum (It was in mine–but then again I went to a better college than you and your daddy). Maybe your philosophy teachers have heard about it: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. (All the cool guys have read it) (…and don’t do that shit you are doing with TRM–you know, judging a book by it’s cover–which is childish behavior only a daddy could love–or a beta boyfriend.)

    Well I have to get back to work, but you should actually read and understand some of Rollo’s TRM work before you dismiss it. It’s been nice rambling on to you. I do it for entertainment, not because I think you will “just get it”. You won’t. Until you do.

    Hey, but try this one on for size about why Rollo does it:

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/whats-your-problem/

  40. Emily,
    “”It’s like..6 months of waiting . He’s mature, he’s not an overgrown teenager like you who’s only goal in life is to have sex. He’s fine with it.””
    So when you’re 20, 6 months seems like 6 years!.
    His goal in life not to have sex! Whahahahaha, didn’t you say , he was watching porn and it’s good to beat off to release the pressure in his balls.

    ““Women are followers, not leaders. They follow trends, status and power, not a sense of innate loyalty.”
    complete crap. No woman believes any of that.””

    You follow your stupid manipulative priest, no?
    What do you call when you follow “net working” with successful men?

    ” tempt him and see if he stops it.
    Well something like that did happen a few weeks ago, ‘cept it was the other way around (he tempted me and stopped me.”

    YOU, tempt him, unzip his pants and suck his dick and see if he stops you.

    “In previous posts, it didn’t seem he had chosen it.”
    Which posts?
    Sure I was the one who started being abstinent”

    One post you say, you stopped fucking him, in another you say it was him. Make up you shallow brain.

    “. But I’m sure that even if we broke up now he wouldn’t have sex with anyone.”

    Because you knew he’s got no other options.

    ” He’s taking religion more seriously now.”
    Because of you, the symp will do anything.

    “God definitely does punish those who are thankless and arrogant. Thankfully, I’m not one of them. I thank God everyday for what He has given me.”

    Instead of thanking God, send your thanking to your “daddy” for the 100k, and your spineless bf for putting up with your pussy.

    Ps,
    If Jesus had a daughter like you, he’d kick her lazy entitled pussy out of his tent, and tell you to rely on other skills beside your hole.

  41. “God definitely does punish those who are thankless and arrogant. Thankfully, I’m not one of them. I thank God everyday for what He has given me.”

    So Emily, you view yourself as a model of humility? I’d vote you came in here showing arrogance, and your demeanor certainly comes across as thankless in regards to how casually you seem to be spending your fathers money. But keep on thanking Him and going to confession to get rid of those nasty sins. I’m sure He isn’t keeping tabs…

  42. ^ If you actually believe that rubbish you posted then I feel sorry for your wife. If you believe women are so inferior to you, then your marriage will just adopt a ‘master/servant’ dynamic.

    Women don’t divorce men for their money moron. If our man is loving, caring and faithful than of course we won’t divorce him.
    Contrary to what Rollo teaches you guys, most divorces are a result of infidelity (55%) and abuse (30%).

    Why shouldn’t guys get married right out of college? marriage brings stability. My bf is 23. My daddy was 21 when he got married to my mom, who was the same age. Same thing with my granddad. It used to be the norm.
    Now you guys have convinced everyone that marriage will interfere with your success, which is not true. I did a lil bit of research a while ago, and while marrying early will decrease a woman’s income, it will INCREASE a man’s income.
    But no, you guys want to get married when 30-35
    At the same time you shame women who haven’t got married before they hit the ‘wall’ at 28.
    There are so many holes in the bs, idk why Im taking this seriously. Tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if you were all feminists trolls trying to paint a picture of the worst men possible to show the rest of us.

    ” I went to a better college than you and your daddy”
    Highly unlikely.

    @Liz, it really is amazing how bitter you got about my tuition and ‘prestige’ remark. I’m not a member of the ‘elite class’ but it’s very obvious that you are envious of them. Chill…
    Btw, I didnt notice it until Rollo pointed it out, but you are a completely different person on BGR Liz. Kinda odd.

    1. Contrary to what Rollo teaches you guys, most divorces are a result of infidelity (55%) and abuse (30%).

      Links please.

      You are aware that over 70% of all divorce is initiated by women, correct?

    2. Women don’t divorce men for their money moron. If our man is loving, caring and faithful than of course we won’t divorce him.

      Incorrect.
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randi-gunther/marriage-advice_b_5666990.html

      Now you guys have convinced everyone that marriage will interfere with your success, which is not true. I did a lil bit of research a while ago, and while marrying early will decrease a woman’s income, it will INCREASE a man’s income.

      Causality fallacy. This is a well documented and long disproven trope. Married men statistically earn more money than single men because they have to in order to support a wife and family. Single men have a far greater net worth than married men because, statistically, they retain more of the money they earn. Conversely, married men are more ‘productive’ from an economic perspective, but they retain less of their net worth than lower earning single men.

      Dalrock was running economic and divorce stats tropes through the wringer when you were a sophomore in high school. What’s really entertaining is that you’re bring this shit up here like it’s news to us. Dalrock destroyed Susan Walsh’s exact same boilerplate you’re parroting here 4 years ago.

      But no, you guys want to get married when 30-35

      http://qz.com/177694/why-major-creative-breakthroughs-happen-in-your-late-thirties/

      At the same time you shame women who haven’t got married before they hit the ‘wall’ at 28.

      You deliberately misattribute shame for making men (and women) aware of the fundamental truths inherent to women’s potential. You do so because that awareness is a direct threat to women consolidating their sexual strategy in the long term.

      You have nothing left but school yard jibes. All you do is point and sputter, you have no valid counterarguments and the points you think are counters were blathered off while you were in middle school. You have no idea where these tropes originated, where you learned them, and what’s entertaining to the men here is that you honestly believe they’re novel.

      Come back when you have an educated counterargument you didn’t copy and paste from Marie Claire.

  43. “Btw, I didnt notice it until Rollo pointed it out, but you are a completely different person on BGR Liz. Kinda odd.”

    Funny…now that you mention it, you’re different too.
    I didn’t notice you telling anyone to shut the fuck up, calling people morons, misogynists, masochistic, attention whores, or talking about “freeloading parents” how can’t afford to send their kids to college.
    Odd.

  44. ” Women don’t divorce men for their money moron. If our man is loving, caring and faithful than of course we won’t divorce him.”

    Stop the presses!!!!

  45. What’s most interesting to me Emily is, you seem to have idea whatsoever how arrogantly you come across. Perhaps THAT has something to do with my change in “demeanor”? Just maybe?
    I’ve come across people like you in real life, but online people can usually read what they’ve written and think better than to say it (unless they are actively trying to come across as arrogant, which happens, but in your case you truly seem to have no idea)

  46. Emily the caring hole,

    “My daddy was 21 when he got married to my mom, who was the same age. ”

    Can you tell us why your “daddy” married a 26 y.o?
    What happened to your mommy?

    Ps,
    Your spineless bf might be beating off with your step mom in his mind.

  47. I actually sat down one day and calculated how much richer I would of been if I had stayed single…

    …it was an eye opener.

    And that was before I had to give her “her half” that *I* earned for her.

    Shit, I’d be sipping margaritas on a beach somewhere by now.

  48. ” . . . what’s entertaining to the men here is that you honestly believe they’re novel.”

    Sophomoric: The itch to be original. -Pete Seeger.

  49. Marriage bring stability to Emily who was sexually very active + $100 k in debt to be stabilized/paid by you future hard working spineless 23 y.o bf.

    God(and yourself) forgiven your past N count, and soon your bf (spineless) will forgive your $100k debt.
    Yaaaay, Christian stability.

  50. Emily – “If you believe women are so inferior to you, then your marriage will just adopt a ‘master/servant’ dynamic.”

    Women are not inferior to men. Women are different than men. Comparing the two is asking for disappointment. Start there and work your way forward.

    I don’t want a sex slave. In fact, you’d probably be shocked by how much I prefer my wife to be self sufficient and independent. I already have kids, I don’t need an adult one too. If I had to direct her all the time, I would tire of it quickly.

    This’ll get your blood boiling. Ideally, I want a woman that can fully function on her own, but follows my lead because she knows beyond all doubt its in her best interests. The flip side of that is: if she’s with me, its my way or the highway. I’ll haggle on some details, but at the end of the day I get last say. Don’t like that deal? There’s the door, watch it doesn’t hit you on the ass as you leave. I don’t want a women to stay with my out of fear/lack of options/guilt/etc. I want her to stay because she fully wants to, and recognizes that being with me is far better than any other option she has. So, sweetheart, don’t feel bad for my wife. She’s here of her own free will, and enjoying the trip.

  51. “Liz, it really is amazing how bitter you got about my tuition and ‘prestige’ remark.”

    What you are interpreting as “bitterness” is not bitterness but disgust.
    I don’t like arrogant people.
    I know no other way to react to:
    “you just don’t understand that knowledge is important for its own sake”,
    “I just study whatever interests me because there’s no way I will ever want to put anything I learn to useful purpose”,
    “you don’t understand prestige and my crowd”,
    “freeloading parents blah blah..”,
    and so forth.

    Arrogance bothers me a lot more than pejoratives.

  52. You know what is odd? I just remembered. I went to a Catholic University.

    And I didn’t get laid once in college. But it was a spectacular University.

    When I went there it was 75% men and 25% women. 50% of the women fell in the would-not-bang category. So I took advantage of the educational landscape and learned how to learn extremely well.

    I would choose it all over in a millisecond.

    (And was much better than Emily’s. I can tell by her postings.). I’m sure her’s is fine. But mine was better.

    But then again, I actually applied myself.

    And I love how I turned out so far. Life is beautiful.

  53. The son of a close friend of mine goes there.
    They have a great deal of money but she is the opposite of arrogant.
    She was an RN for while too.

  54. @Rollo
    “Single men have a far greater net worth than married men because, statistically, they retain more of the money they earn”
    Your children are part of your net worth.
    Anyway, women actually have much more to gain than men for delaying marriage, so why don’t I support it? The reason is because it’s a selfish thing to do, and it’s bad for society. I support the choices and lifestyles that lead to a productive, moral society. You support the choices that would, presumably, maximize your pleasure and ‘net worth’ (though there is also evidence that married men in their 20s are happier.) Assume now that all women shared the same thought process as you. Well, all of us would then pursue careers and have lots of sex in our 20s. But no, THATS wrong, because it would lead to an unproductive, immoral society. Those double standards…

    @Tedd
    My post wasn’t directed at you, but @SJF.
    I actually agree a 100% with what you said. Is that surprising? I don’t have a problem obeying my bf, unless he asks me to do something against my religion.
    I have a problem with comments like:
    “There is no equality in prosperous cultures, only a cooperation where one sex recognises the superiority of the other. ”
    “Women don’t care about your struggles, only your successes.”
    “Women are followers, not leaders. They follow trends, status and power, not a sense of innate loyalty.”
    I have an issue with double standards, encouragement of promiscuity for men and chastity for women (htf does that even work?), terms like ‘used up’ and ‘post wall whore,’ etc.

    Don’t confuse my position. I’m a Christian and a supporter of complimentarian marriages.

    @Liz
    ‘Freeloaders’ means the lazy, not the poor. That’s quite obvious. And if you have a problem with ‘my crowd’ and my criticism of the lazy, you really should just go pick up your copy of the Communist Manifesto.
    You have a problem w arrogant people? Why are you here then? You don’t think these red pill guys are arrogant?
    Go to Dalrock’s blog and look at how they all insulted insanity. These are the type of people you follow around, and you have a problem with me, of all people! Incredible.

  55. No, it was even better than Boston college.

    But I probably would have gotten laid more if I went to Boston College.

    I have no disrespect for religion. My college experience was extremely secular. And I have no ill will for those that choose self discipline. I learned self-discipline in sublimating my sexual desires and elevating my intellectual capacities here:

    http://static.tumblr.com/037492653c81d851f407688101cd58d7/jtzu4dx/Ov6n30hgn/tumblr_static_dome_feature_block.jpg.jpg

    My intellectual mastery carried me far beyond mere religious epiphanies (which leave a man lacking in real life and in modern society).

    And the long hours I spent studying in this library were the easiest time of life:

    http://www.indianablacklibrarians.org/hesburghlib.jpg

    Desire springs from many sources, such as your addictions, your biological heritage, your childhood conditioning, and your open heart. To live a life of impeccable integrity, you must discriminate the source of your desire, so you know when to discipline your behavior for everyone’s benefit, including yours.

    The fact is you probably want to have sex with other women besides your intimate partner; how you respond to this fact is a reflection of your purpose in life. If your purpose is to enjoy physical pleasure no matter the consequences, then you should screw as many women as you want. If your purpose is to be a nice boy and please “mommy,” then you should do what makes your woman happy. If your purpose is to liberate yourself and others into love and freedom, then you should do whatever magnifies the love and freedom in your life and in the lives of those whom your actions affect.

    It’s your call. Just remember that self-discipline is not self-suppression. Suppression is when you resist and fight against your desires, keeping them as buried and unexpressed as possible. Self discipline is when your highest desires rule your lesser desires, not through resistance, but through loving action grounded in understanding and compassion.

    How many women you have sex with is your business. Before you consider more than one, however, it is best to prove your capacity with one. If you can’t handle one—if deep communion, rejuvenating passion, and spiritual happiness are not the main features of your present intimacy—then you have not passed the test, and it is best to discipline your desire for other partners, since nobody is likely to be served. D. Deida

  56. Emily… I actually do agree with a lot of what’s being said here to you.

    My dad would have died if I had told him I wanted to major in philosophy in college. Ever since I was little, they tried to steer me in the direction of sensible choices, and to them, one of the most important choice you could make was the skills you learned after high school. I knew what I wanted to do by the time I was 9, and mostly because they helped me understand what made money, what was useful, and what I liked to already do.

    I’m so sorry your parents give you this basic wisdom for life, but that is no excuse to blow so much money on a degree that is basically worthless. Finding something more useful, and then minoring in philosophy would be a better alternative. Or double major, and make your other major something worthwhile doing. Philosophy is not something one needs to study at an expensive university to gain any kind of understanding on. It’s true that even books found in your local library, internet sources, internet classes even, would be more beneficial that spending 3-4 years “studying” it in college.

    I went to college on my dad’s money, too, but I never looked down on others that had to accrue debt to get there. Education costs way too high in our country – it’s robbery and should be illegal how high even state schools cost now when tuition is “uncapped.” But like I said, he would have DIED if I’d decided to waste his money on something that would be of no use to me later. Use meaning “financial reward.” That is the main reason people pay so much for higher education. Once I got married, and lost my parent’s paying my tuition, I was able to get a full ride on grants and scholarships because of my grades.

    But even if my entire college experience had been on scholarships and grants… it would still have been a waste to choose something that wouldn’t have been employable or financially rewarding after that investment of time and other people’s money.

  57. “‘Freeloaders’ means the lazy, not the poor. That’s quite obvious.”
    Not in the context you used it: “All it takes is 5,000 a year!”

    “And if you have a problem with ‘my crowd’ and my criticism of the lazy, you really should just go pick up your copy of the Communist Manifesto.”

    I give up. You are to social intelligence what nails are to a chalkboard.
    It isn’t your “crowd”. It’s you! Bye Emily.

  58. “… I don’t have a problem obeying my bf, unless he asks me to do something against my religion.”.

    I hope the poor sap understands that ” religion ” comes before him.

    She said -” Don’t confuse my position. I’m a Christian and a supporter of complimentarian marriages.”

    After she said _” I have an issue with double standards…”.

    Clinically retarded indeed.

    Hey, Em, what about the intellectually lazy?

    ” Assume now that all women shared the same thought process as you. Well, all of us would then pursue careers and have lots of sex in our 20s. ‘

    FI in action….

    ” I support the choices and lifestyles that lead to a productive, moral society. ”

    Someone wasting 6 figures talking about ” productive”. Judging by what you’ve stated here, no one wants your brand of morality. That self righteous bullshit brand of snobbish, ignorant morality.

    Damn. The things I could do with the cash being burned on your education. Even you admit you’re just wasting it because Daddy insisted. That shit ought to be against the law.

    Pssssttt!!! I’ll tell you a secret Emily. Your education is failing you. It’s hindering you. I know 11th grade high school girls that are smarter than you. And they are CATHOLIC!!! ( duh-dun-duuuhhhh!!!!) . You can’t use ” Christian ” as a crutch. It’s unbecoming. Every time you say some stupid shit, you try to cover it by announcing that you’re ” Christian “. Wonder what Jesus would say about ” Prestige ” little girl? Your faith, that shit is weak. Your knowledge of that which you profess is sad and lacking.

    But you’re good for a laugh, so there is that.

  59. @Emily,
    The more you talk, the more I know how fucked up your bf ( spineless) is AND for being with you.
    Ps,
    You haven’t told us why did your “daddy ” left your mother to fuck a 26 y.o?
    How come you never talk about your mom,did she dump your “daddy” or he dumped her ?

  60. Emily,
    “Anyway, women actually have much more to gain than men for delaying marriage”
    You mean riding the CC? + using your pussy pass?
    Wow, NOW your talking.
    In other words :
    My bf ( spineless) or any other man should be lucky to marry me and pay my debt, cause, I’m doing him a favor instead of being sexually active (I have more to gain).
    And God, he’d better keep on being nice otherwise…I’ll become a slut again.

  61. This is the results of pussy commodification .
    Emily added religion to it.
    That’s not bad, not bad for 20 something y.o.

  62. “Your children are part of your net worth.”

    Children are part of a woman’s net worth.
    You know that, don’t you?
    This is another way of milking your ex husband with child support and having the house all for yourself.

  63. Thank you Dragonfly. I understand what you are saying, but as I said before, it’s not a useless degree.
    I’ll ask about a double major. But I really am not worried about my future.
    What did you study?

    @Rollo
    Thanks for the links.
    Okay, I’ll honestly look at the stats to see what the reasons behind divorce are. I mean, a woman has more invested in a relationship than a man does, you’d think she’d value her marriage more then and only divorce for serious reasons. But I could be wrong. I’ll look it up. I reaaally doubt it’s the money though. We aren’t that cold hearted and manipulative.
    Dalrock is correct that women are often encouraged to divorce, and that is awful. So I’ll give him that.

  64. Emily ,

    “But I really am not worried about my future.”

    You spoiled it you little bitch.
    I wish you kept ignoring me.

  65. I don’t remember I said 1 positive thing about that little bitch, and yet she thinks I’m in love with her!!.
    It tells a lot about her knowing she’s nothing but a stupid attention whore hole.

  66. “I’m getting a philosophy degree fir 150,000 dollars!”
    Q: “Do you think it’s a good idea?”
    “Doesn’t matter, I’ll never use it anyway.”
    Q: “But what if you need to?”
    “I won’t! Ever.”
    Q: “But what if something happens? And even if it doesn’t don’t you want to have a useful skill even for around the home? That knowledge could come in handy.”
    “Nope! Your advice is worthless because I’m never going to work. You just dont’ understand the value of knowledge for its own sake. You know nothing about prestige. Why’s everyone judging me?!?
    Q: “Well, 150k is a lot for an extended highschool experience and a lot of people can’t afford to go to college.”
    “Those parents are lazy!!! All it takes is 5000 a year, every year to put a kid through school.”
    Q: But that’s a lot of money…7000 in earned income before taxes for every child on top of all the living expenses of raising them. That’s an awful lot to a lot of people.”
    “You just don’t understand about prestige and its value to people in my circles.”
    Q: [insert stream of sarcastic humor]
    “Wow you sure are bitter! You’re nothing here like you are in that other place….”
    Q: Maybe it’s because you are coming across as arrogant>
    “You just want to be a communist!”

    Good grief.
    Need some mind bleach now.
    Fwiw, I have a lot of close friends who graduated from all sorts of great schools (Oxford, Harvard, Boston college…no one from THAT one though, SJF, kudos!). NONE of them come across like this.

  67. I like how you put the J in INTJ Liz. I’m a fan of being judgemental.

    Overall I think Rollo hit a home run with the original post/essay.

    My impression is that there are a lot of interpretations based on premises of men’s motives that are false. On Biblical Gender Roles blog, I think that Larry Soloman and Emily completely misinterpreted Rollo’s ideas of soft dread to imply he was employing dread actively and therefore it is cruel/misogynist/ and bad. In reality, Rollo is a natural and employs passive dread. He doesn’t actively game his wife. He leads. She is welcome to follow. There is a difference.

    I think Larry Solomon’s interpretation is simply akin to negotiating desire. And we all know how that feels as men. Lack of desire is lack of desire.

    Keep in mind with my postings (I’m saying this for future reference) that I am not advocating long term marriage, religion, nor low N counts. Each man must write his own script based on his own self-determined mission in life. I have a long term marriage, derived benefit from religion in the past (but have moved on from that because of my scientific and intellectual growth) and have a desire to grow and change. I have a clearly defined mission for myself and so far it is working the way I want to and I feel I have control over my circumstances and my direction in life. Thanks to help from Rollo, The Rational Male and some excellent commenters here.

    We rarely get to see a woman get drawn out like Emily was in this thread in order for the commenters to see the fallacy in their logic. You certainly couldn’t draw out InsanityBytes on her spam to get to her real premises in the past. I never could interpret her misandry because she would never let on to what her problem really was.

    Emily could be drawn out. I tried to draw her out. Sorry, Emily, you deserved it for how you came into the comments section like a bull in a china shop. You speak with ignorance for how things really work.

    Here’s for you Emily.

    https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/lowbrow-humor-is-just-what-the-doctor-ordered-30-photos-1.gif?w=300

  68. “Emily could be drawn out. I tried to draw her out. Sorry, Emily, you deserved it for how you came into the comments section like a bull in a china shop. You speak with ignorance for how things really work.”

    So much this. Don’t taken it personal Emily. You self selected by your tone in the first comment you made. You stormed in here assuming you’d be treated as an equal, and this is probably one of the worst places to pull that, as a woman OR a man. In some ways the shit slung your way was our way of seeing if you deserved any form of respect, and you quickly dispelled any hopes of such. It isn’t your money, status, youth, or vagina that gets you greif here, its your attitude.

    I sincerely hope you learned something, but I won’t get my hopes up.

  69. @mynameisemily”WAAAA!”:

    “Your children are part of your net worth.
    Anyway, women actually have much more to gain than men for delaying marriage, so why don’t I support it? The reason is because it’s a selfish thing to do, and it’s bad for society. I support the choices and lifestyles that lead to a productive, moral society. ”

    And this neophyte claims to “do philosophy”…Might even see herself as, get this guys, “a critical thinker”. How would daddy feel about that 100k now?

    Solipsism gone awry! To quote SJF…clinically retarded.

    “I mean, a woman has more invested in a relationship than a man does,”
    http://m.memegen.com/0kgrhh.jpg

  70. I didn’t take anything here personally folks. No need to apologize! It was all good rather entertaining tbh.
    I didn’t appreciate the insults towards my bf, but whatever, it’s not like you guys know whether he is ‘beta’ or not. And it’s not like I care.

    @Rollo
    From the article:
    “men, unlike women, are simply more comfortable keeping two lovers simultaneously. Husbands don’t have a problem screwing a mistress and coming home to a doting wife. Wives DO have a problem screwing around and maintaining a happy facade with their cucked beta hubbies.”

    So essentially, most men and women in general are not very committed, but women are much more honest.
    Good to know.

  71. “…….it’s not like I care.”

    Dear Emily, that is part of the problem–that you don’t care. And you saying that is most certainly a Beta Tell.

    @Rollo
    From the article:
    “men, unlike women, are simply more comfortable keeping two lovers simultaneously. Husbands don’t have a problem screwing a mistress and coming home to a doting wife. Wives DO have a problem screwing around and maintaining a happy facade with their cucked beta hubbies.”

    “So essentially, most men and women in general are not very committed, but women are much more honest.
    Good to know. “

    https://www.laquadrature.net/files/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

  72. Heheh, Emily you remind me of a song.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Arbo_The-Wild-Hunt-of-Odin.jpg


    A young and foolish Emily went ridin out one dark and windy day
    Upon a ridge she rested as she went along her way
    When all at once a mighty gang of red-pilled men she saw
    Plowin through the raging internet and up a cloudy draw

    Their minds were still on fire and their hearts were made of steel
    Their eyes were black and shiny and their hot breath she could feel
    A bolt of fear went through her as they thundered through the ‘net
    For she saw the commentators comin hard and she heard their mournful cries

    Yippie i ohhh ohh ohh
    Yippie i aye ye ye
    Ghost commenters in the sphere

    Their faces gaunt, their eyes were blurred
    Their shirts all soaked with sweat
    She’s ridin hard to catch that gang
    But she aint caught em yet
    Cause they got to type forever on that blog up on the ‘net
    On keyboards snortin fire as they type on hear their cries

    As the commenters typed on by her she heard one call her name
    ‘if you wanna save your soul from hell a-typin on our blog
    Then cowgirl change your ways today or with us you will type
    Tryin to catch the devil’s gang across these endless spheres

    Yippie i ohhh oh oh
    Yippie i aye ye ye
    Ghost commenters in the sphere
    Ghost commenters in the sphere
    Ghost commenters in the sphere

  73. The cowgirl seemed to listen, but she didn’t hear a sound
    Revealed this in her muddled speech as ghosts all gathered ‘round
    Deflecting and rejecting left and right among the fray
    Her deftly dandy daftness claimed, “Won’t learn a thing this day!”
    And when the ghosts had tired, patience exhausted from nonplus,
    Left a message: “Look for sympathy in the dictionary, shyte and syphillus”

  74. The song presents an image of misandrist blog readers hell – readers who are doomed to chase the Devil’s feminist ramblings for all eternity.

  75. Left out a word above. Intended to say “Look for sympathy in the dictionary, BETWEEN shyte and syphillus”

    How the heck did that happen?

  76. @Liz, wow, you have a talent! Good for you.

    @SJF
    Why would I be concerned whether my man is ‘alpha’ or ‘beta?’ Doesn’t matter. He loves me and treats me well, thats what matters. Don’t confuse me with red pill women like Liz who think love is about being dominated, controlled and abused through ‘soft dread’ and discipline.

  77. You just made that up about Liz out of thin air. That is what is called an ad hominem.

    Why do you think you should be concerned about whether your boyfriend and future husband and future father of your children is either alpha or beta? (And keep in mind Alpha/Beta is a mindset, not a demographic.)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3j7b3q/alpha_vs_beta_traits/

    Keep in mind that even in the wolf packs the red pill draws it’s alpha/beta ideas from, the woman (and esp. her character) that a man has at his side matters.

  78. @ Emily,

    Though one cannot find much difference between a Donkey and Mule, they have anatomical and physiological differences. People often find it hard to differentiate between the two — Donkey and Mule ‘“ as they are almost similar in their looks and ways.

    Donkey is a domesticated hoofed mammal, which is related to the horse. But a Donkey is smaller than a horse with long ears, short hair on the tail, short mane and a dark stripe along the back. A Mule is a hybrid animal from crossing a jack (male Donkey) and a mare (female horse).

    Well, the first difference between a Donkey and a Mule is related to its reproductive system. Donkeys can reproduce but Mules do not reproduce. A Mule is in fact sterile. Another difference is that there are 62 chromosomes in a Donkey and 63 chromosomes in a Mule.

    When comparing the two in regard to the usage, Mules perform better than the Donkeys. A Donkey could show impatience under the pressure of heavy weight, but a Mule is only calm even if the load is heavy for it to carry. A Mule withstands any load pressure whereas a Donkey will not. A Mule has more stamina than a Donkey. This Characteristic of the Mule is attributed to its hybrid origin.

    A Mule also has the capability to jump up a few feet from standing position where as a Donkey cannot perform such an act. It is said that Mules are more intelligent than Donkeys.

  79. Thought this was pertinent on the subject of worthless degrees and the subject of female academic “accomplishment”:

    Prostitution to pay off student loan debt
    http://professorconfess.blogspot.kr/2015/11/prostitution-to-eliminate-student.html

    Yes, even those “cheap” community colleges bury students. CNN fails to ask a question about that, how it doesn’t seem to matter what kind of school, state, for-profit, or community college, victims end up stumbling out after a few years, deep in debt. We’re looking at schools in Michigan, Kentucky, and Nevada, and it doesn’t matter where, our higher education system is creating legions of victims.
    (snip)
    We’re told, from a very young age, that education is everything, that education is the path to riches, that no price is too great to pay for higher education. I’ve quoted a few Poo Bahs of higher education saying as much, when they’re not grunting about “leadership” as a means to increase growth.
    (snip)
    Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to sound elitist here, and it’s no business of mine how another person makes a living but…you don’t need a college degree to be a prostitute. Yes, there is a glut of sex-related courses for sale on our campuses, but such courses are not offered so that we can have better prostitutes. Those courses are offered because they sell well; they have minimal at best educational value, but our “leaders” don’t care about education, they care about sales growth.
    These people aren’t going into higher education to become prostitutes…they’re going into prostitution because of higher education, and that’s the issue CNN has missed.

    It isn’t simply that we’ve been lying to our children about the “unarguable value” of education to the point that our kids honestly believe sitting in any classroom for anything is worth any price, it’s that our higher education system is literally forcing people into prostitution…to improve their lives.

    So, absolutely, I agree with CNN, kudos to the pimp for helping his prostitutes out. But maybe CNN could do a little investigative reporting and show just how predatory so many of our institutions of higher education have become? Even if our schools weren’t so predatory, how can one claim higher education is incredibly precious when the prostitutes of the United States not only have college degrees, but remain prostitutes because their degrees are worthless?

    We’re told as taxpayers, that we need to fund higher education to improve our country. The result of that funding is a student loan and higher education system that is now creating prostitutes. If this isn’t a good enough reason to end the student loan scam, what would be?”

    It is to weep.

  80. I don’t buy it.
    And even if it’s true, what should we do about it? Have the government further subsidize universities? No way.
    It’s just human stupidity that’s the problem. The plan should be quite simple: Don’t attend a college you can’t afford, unless you are doing a STEM degree or have a scholarship!
    People need to hear this more, cause they don’t seem to get it.
    I also don’t buy that community college makes people go into debt. Really? I live in Texas. My university costs $42,000. It’s NOT for everyone. The average state college has a tuition of $9,000. The average community college: $3000.
    TLDR: If you are studying a non-STEM degree, make sure you can somewhat afford it.

  81. Here in Germany (and many other European countries) university is free for everyone with the necessary qualifications. It’s even free for Americans coming over to study here. I heard costs of travel and living here are often much cheaper than college in the US and you get international experience on top. I think there are even opportunities to study in English language.

    Investing in a highly skilled and educated workforce pays off for a government big time.

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