Never Take a Woman Fishing

never_fishing

(h/t to Zelscorpion for the image and ref for today’s post)

Hi Rollo,
On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

Never take a woman fishing.

That’s a little idiom I learned way before I was Red Pill aware from the guy who was the best man at my wedding, and my long time fishing buddy. I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but he was a keen observer of women’s behavior and became salt-of-the-earth wise by default:

“When you take a woman fishing you’re trying to include them in something they really don’t want to be doing, but you like it a lot. So you think ‘I like fishing and I want to include her in something we can do together’, but when you do she complains about EVERYTHING. ‘It’s dirty, I’m cold, I’m hot, I didn’t bring a water bottle, where’s the sunscreen?, there’s too many bugs, why are there so many bugs?, why do we have to hike so far to fish? can’t we just find a spot by the dam? where’s the bathroom?, etc. etc.”

“So what do you do? You force yourself to make her comfortable the whole damn time. You don’t hike, you don’t scout for the sweet spots on the river or, God forbid, you try to get her in a kayak. You end up going out after breakfast and the light’s all wrong. You try to keep them clean and close to the ‘potty’, you bait their hook ’cause it’s filthy, you untangle their reel snarls,…what you don’t do is fish. Your whole trip becomes about making her ‘like’ fishing with you and not about actually fishing and doing all the things we do when we fish together or on our own. I mean, you want ’em to like it, but you’ll never teach them to like it because you’re too busy making everything right for ’em.”

“Unless they were brought up right and they dig fishing ’cause their Dad taught ’em to like it, never try to bring a woman fishing. They gotta come to liking it on their own, they gotta want to do it on their own. I mean, look at Dodge (our dog) he don’t care if it’s cold or 4am, he’s happy to be on the trail going wherever the fuck we’re headed.”

Back in May Zelscorpion tweeted a few of the pictures from this series and made an interesting point:

https://twitter.com/Zelcorpion/status/599493741573971969

I had to admit, he’s got a point and it reminded me of the sage words of my Best Man. I think one of the tragedies of men’s Blue Pill conditioning is the presumption that they must find a way, sometimes forcibly, to become more compatible with a woman. I wrote about the paradox of compatibility a while back:

It’s very entertaining for me to hear guys reason as to why they got into yoga, or my all time favorite, salsa dancing as some means of meeting girls. I mean really, if that’s the goal you choose to devote the precious few hours of your leisure time to then I suppose a guy ought to take up scrap-booking or zumba.

If you’re picking up a hobby in order to meet women all you’re doing is attempting to Identify with what you expect your idealized woman to appreciate. If you get into something for this reason it’s not a hobby, it’s a Buffer.

Successful men don’t chase success – success chases them. Women are going to expect you to have your own uncontrived, interests, passions and hobbies established before meeting them.

When I first began counseling men in my SoSuave days many times I’d read guys telling me, “Well if she’s not into the same things I am she’s just not the ‘right’ girl for me”, as if common interests were some criteria that would trump his sexual interests in a girl. Blue Pill idealism convinces men that the “right girl” will necessarily love doing the same things as himself, but the all too common Red Pill truth is that men will have their peak experiences in life alone or in the company of other men who share the passions and interests their wives simply have no interest in.

Peak Experience

I don’t subscribe to Maslow’s theories in whole, but I do think his Peak Experience idea has merit. There will be times and achievements in your life that will stand out as significantly memorable. It’s easy to point to the experiences that should be the most significant; a marriage, the birth of a child, a religious experience, a first kiss, a school graduation, etc., you get the idea – experiences that should be the standard fare in a romanticized, idealistic sense.

We tend to overblow these experiences because we think they should be something to etch in our consciousness; and if we don’t, well, then there must be something wrong with us for not appreciating their popular significance. Tragically it’s our negative experiences that have the most lasting effect on us; evolution has made pain something memorable so as to help us avoid potentially life-ending future experiences. But the events that should evoke lasting good memories, the ones we are taught should be significant, are often the ones we ruin with unrealistic expectations, or we build up only to have them not quite live up to the fantasy we make of them.

The Peak Experiences I’m talking about here aren’t planned, or are just loosely planned by necessity. Some of the most memorable events you’ll ever experience wont be ones that you had a forethought about. These are often the experiences we hope to recreate long after they occur, but prove impossible to really recapture. Much of what makes up our personal preferences in life come from these spontaneous Peak Experiences. Remember the first girl you got with? Remember that time when things aligned just perfectly for you to hit that hole in one?

One of the reasons I have such a passion for snowmobiles was due to a day I blew off work so I could go out for the entire day on a beautiful Lake Tahoe morning. I went on my own which is something I rarely did. It was a Wednesday so there was nobody on the trails. The snow was only a day old and I took my sled to the top of a place called High Meadows, but even this pristine place wasn’t high enough. I took off in the back country and got to the top of a peak that was as high as I dared to go alone. Once I got there I had a view of the lake that I imagine few people had experienced. Then I fell back on the seat of my sled and stared at a sky that was so blue I never thought of it in the same way again. I laid there for a long time just staring and thinking about life and living and God and the universe.

On my way down the hill I thought how cool it would be to bring Mrs. Tomassi up there so she could appreciate it too. I mean, why wouldn’t I want to share such an incredible Peak Experience with the woman I love; the woman I want to share my life with? To this day Mrs. T has only been on my sled about 3 times. She’s very self-cautious and doesn’t like the smell and sound of the engine. That might seem trivial, but no matter how much I can try to relate that experience or try to recapture it no one but myself will ever have that unique event.

Experience & Frame

When I look at the guy with his dog in these camping shots I can now appreciate them much more because I know he’s experienced that same uniqueness. When you plan an event with a woman, when you make efforts to bring her into an appreciation of something you enjoy the experience of you must remember that you are, in essence, negotiating for her genuine desire to do so.

Now, before I’m run up the flagpole for suggesting otherwise, yes I know that many men and women do in fact find pleasure in commonly held interests. I see women on the river fishing in waders and at Trout Unlimited events all the time. My point isn’t the interest itself, but rather the desire to participate in it. A lot of guys hold the belief that including their wife, girlfriend or even a girl they’re spinning as a plate in something they think she should enjoy will have the effect of bringing them closer. The inherent problem with this is the presumption that including her in it will lead to some new shared experience that will bond them both in a genuine way.

The problem with preplanned ‘date nights’ is the same problem men experience with trying to pull a woman into his Frame by insisting she take up one of his hobbies or passions; it’s contrived and feels disingenuous to her. The point of the experience becomes about her being involved in it and not the actual doing of whatever it is you do together. The vibe becomes one of him making and controlling that experience so it becomes something pleasurable for her to participate in rather than really finding some inherent reward from it due to genuine interest.

Thus you get guys who (figuratively) take their women fishing and the event becomes more about introducing her to it than actually catching fish. Guys get so caught up in controlling unpleasant variables for her that the real experience of fishing is something entirely different. They want that woman to feel the same joy he does in doing something intrinsically rewarding to him, but the truth of it is she must come to it on her own.

Always Maintain Your Individualism

And this leads us back, once again, to establishing and maintaining a positive, dominant and individualistic Frame with a woman. She must want to enter your reality for it to be a genuine desire on her part – you cannot lead her into it, she must enter it of her own volition. Spontaneity is the key. Whether it’s an ‘insta-date’ from a PUA perspective, or an unexpected twist of plans in your marriage, that woman must want to participate in that event, in that moment of her own accord.

A good test of genuine interest with a woman is less about how open she is to trying “your things” and more about how insistent she is instigating her own participation in them. The trap most Betas fall into is converting “his things” into “our things” and he compromises those previously rewarding experiences into a sideshow he hopes will bond he and his woman together.

In Male Space I made this point:

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting maintaining the former level of interest in the endeavor.

A similar dynamic plays out when men try to open the Male Space of whatever it is they find individually enjoyable to the women they hope will share in his enthusiasm. One thing I learned very early on in my marriage was the absolutely vital importance of maintaining my individual identity apart from my wife.

The biggest mistake I made when I was involved in LTRs prior to meeting my wife was allowing myself to get caught up in the equalist idea that since both men and women were functional equals we should necessarily base our compatibility estimates on how alike we were in interests. Consequently I progressively began convincing myself that I found their interests fascinating, but in doing so I slipped into their Frame. I was too scared of losing a woman and was too necessitous to experiment with doing what I should have – insisting on maintaining my individual interests and maintaining my own reality for a woman to enter.

I was fortunate in that Mrs. T expected me to control the Frame from the start of our relationship. I’ll admit, at the time it was something very unfamiliar to me to have a woman expect me to prioritize my interests above her own, but the purpose of this was establishing a Frame she wanted to enter into. Today I adamantly insist on having a life that is apart from her, but she can enter into if she has a real interest in it. This blog is just one extension of that dynamic.

If you are to maintain a dominant Frame with a woman you must necessarily set your interests apart from her own. You must still insist on your individualized identity and the experiences that set you apart from her in order to maintain a reality in which she continually wishes to genuinely be a part of.

Ted had a great comment from last week’s thread that speaks to this:

I don’t expect my wife to be like a man with male interests. I expect her to be a human with human interests. Something deeper than pop culture anyway.

I know a little bit about a whole lot of stuff. I’m willing to chat about any number of subjects other than tech and politics. It just has to he something better than what’s on TV and the weather. I keep hearing women can do anything a man can, so let’s see some intellectual debate!

More often than not truths must be brought to women by men. It’s uniquely refreshing when women have the critical insight to look for truths, but it’s refreshing because it’s rare – and it’s refreshing when they seek them from a man who’s Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. One of the best aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is that, if you actually have the mastery that comes from individualized experience, it makes maintaining a positive, dominant and enjoyable Frame much easier with the same woman.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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IAS
IAS
7 years ago

If a guy similar to Emily’s bf himself is religious and wants to wait until marriage (or even got her to wait until marriage) that would be his frame and sort of Red Pill I think. May be wrong in this though. Anyway, if Emily’s bf is living with her, all the while abstaining, he must have blue balls (don’t know the technical term, probably testicle congestion or something like that). Which I know from past personal experience actually hurts. Emily, given that your proximity and abstinence combine to causes this painful situation, would you at least consider “giving him… Read more »

Paulo
Paulo
7 years ago

@Blaximus “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, ** yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.**” —Just realized human females are the only animals I’ve ever witnessed crying out in pain during childbirth. Not dogs, cats, horses, loads of wild animals on nature shows. Rather interesting. 17 And to Adam he said, “**Because you have listened to the voice of your wife**, and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“If a guy similar to Emily’s bf himself is religious and wants to wait until marriage (or even got her to wait until marriage) that would be his frame and sort of Red Pill I think. May be wrong in this though.” No, you are 100% correct. Self discipline and sublimating his desires and being a better man. For himself or for her, not sure which. I still think there is a missing narrative here. Emily’s a hot young babe. He’s a hot young guy. She told him the Church (or more correctly God) is more important than his needs… Read more »

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

If I recall correctly, women suffer more in childbirth because of our intelligence. Human females have narrower hips due to humans being bipedals (free hands for tool making and tool using, correlated with intelligence). Human babies have huge heads already at birth. Combine the two…

Although I have also read some stuff about women have orgasmic births instead of or combined with the pain.

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

Rollo, I actually study philosophy in university, so I have discussed this many times. What Harris says.. I’ve heard many times, and several of these points are sound. However, I wonder what the value of such an argument is? Even if we are ultimately ruled by our genes and our experiences, even if everything we do, we would have done anyway, does that really destroy the notion of free will? I could right now decide not to reply here, or I could. Whatever choice I make is ultimately a result of experience and genetics, but does that really eliminate free… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Lol when did I say I’m hot.”

I thought you said you like to fish.

And I guess I inferred it from the fact that your boyfriend is attractive and you are making him hold out.

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

@ Emily, it isn’t even a question of temptation. He will unavoidably get erections even if he isn’t tempted to “sin”, and if he is getting them without release… The wikipedia link is, at time of posting, safe (no pictures) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_balls Quoting from one of the studies mentioned in the short wiki article: “The treatment is sexual release”. Some of you guys may find this funny, I do – now. I didn’t know about blue balls and was seriously worried about the “testiculoscrotal” pain. “The treatment is sexual release” is an euphemism for what the Doctor told me after seeing… Read more »

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

@IAS
Funny you mention that. I discussed this with BGR too. The official Church position is NO sex at all before marriage. But my bf thinks not masturbating will hurt his training, and also side effects like what you mentioned (thanks for saying it had no pics I was almost not gonna click on it lol)
So he probably relieves frustration that way. I still don’t agree w it but I don’t tell him what to do and what not to do.

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

If you live together and both know you’re going to marry, is there a reason you can’t marry now? I was at your age. We married in college.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Nothing occurs at random, but everything for a reason and by necessity.” -Leucippus, 5th Century BCE.

You are studying progressive philosophy. The debate over free will vs. determinism was old hat by the time of Christ. Aristotle spent considerable effort over the matter and was deemed theologically correct by the Church, because he attempted to rescue free will from material determinism.

But Aristotole is not well regarded in progressive philosophy

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

@emily,

Mark my words, when you finally sign the marriage contract((and you start fucking your wimpy bf)), the sex will be as BORING as your bf.
You will be saying :

I’m not haaapy, I need to be “romanced”, I mean, I love you, but, I’m not IN love with you, there are no “tingles”.
Ps,
God and all the Bibles you read, ain’t gonna help you with “tingles”.
Ps2,
Do you pay rent?
What do you do to relief your horny- Ness(besides coming to the manosphere) ?

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

One more thing Emily,

Where in the Bible that okayed for a couple to live together without being married?
Or is it the free rent?
You know darling, move OUT.
You know nothing hypocrite.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Rollo, I actually study philosophy in university,

So you’re all done with university at the age of 20? How remarkable.

How much longer do you plan to cock-tease the poor sap who is liviing with you, again? I mean, surely you’ve set a date for the wedding, right?

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Okay. I’m late to this party. Fucking a guy and then NOT fucking same guy because …what?…because God? I do not get what’s supposed to be happening here. Born again virgin? Church position??? Really??? WTF???? So if the Church position was to jump off of a bridge…. I get people getting into God. I get that. But the multitude of ” Church Positions “? GTFOH with that shit please. So if there were no churches, I guess you’d let your bf bone? If no Man told you he advised against it, what would you do? Do you see what I’m… Read more »

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

@Liz
There are several reasons.. The main reason.. my daddy won’t agree w it (and I prefer that he does agree) until my bf has a job, and my bf is far too busy to have a proper 9 to 5 job. He just wants to graduate first. I mean, I don’t mind marrying before graduation, but he does.

@anonymous reader
Huh? When did I say I’m done? I’m in second year…

@keyser soze
rofl free rent. Hahaha
That was funny 🙂

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“When did I say I’m done? I’m in second year…”

There’s a word for that, particularly with regards to philosophy students.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Say, Emily:

How much longer do you plan to cock-tease the poor sap who is liviing with you, again? I mean, surely you’ve set a date for the wedding, right?

kfg – WHOOSH is the sound of your point flying over her head.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

Emily, you little Brat,
If I was your bf’s best friend, I’ll first tell him to grow some balls( since he’s got none), pack up , you , and all your Bibles, Sent you back to your “daddy”, so your “daddy”can change your stinking diaper, and give you a good spanking, you little extortionist attention whoring bitch.

Dragonfly
7 years ago

Emily “@Liz There are several reasons.. The main reason.. my daddy won’t agree w it (and I prefer that he does agree) until my bf has a job, and my bf is far too busy to have a proper 9 to 5 job. He just wants to graduate first. I mean, I don’t mind marrying before graduation, but he does.” yea I hear that… I got kicked out for getting secretly engaged to my husband in college at age 20. Of course, the secretly engaged part was ruined when a nut girl-friend called my parents’ house congratulating me lol. Lost… Read more »

Dragonfly
7 years ago

You know… for your future husband… you should look into Rollo’s chapter (post?) on Dream Killers in his second book. Marrying before he finishes college might hurt his career/dreams and goals.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Marrying before he finishes college might hurt his career/dreams and goals.”

Not to mention that marrying him after college also might hurt his career/dreams and goals.

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

Wow Dragonfly. Sad that you had to go through that but at least it was worth it! I would do the same but my relationship w my father is more precious to me than anything. ‘sides, 82,000$ of college tuition still left to pay :/

Yeah Rollo, I’ve been pretending to be 19/20 years old for the past 5 months, ever since i first posted on BGR, cause I’m actually Insanity.. because… Idk?
I already replied about your ‘wait for it’ article, I’m not gonna talk about it any more. You guys cannot see it from a Christian perspective.

Arnold S.
Arnold S.
7 years ago

@Emily

I don’t get it, you’re not a virgin anymore and you’re making the guy wait for sex. That’s like selling a used car for a new car price. I’m curious did you lose your virginity to you’re current boyfriend?

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

I can certainly see it from a Catholic / Christian perspective, but in my case we were both virgins when we married. In my case I was voluntarily waiting for marriage. I honestly think there were a few times back then that she was so aroused that she would “sin” for me, but I can not rule out that this may just be wishful thinking from my part and because I did not want to do it before marriage I will never know for sure. The Christian perspective I can see, the one I can’t is your perspective. You have… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Now now. Some of you former Christians are forgetting: once you realize you have sinned and ask for forgiveness, you also have to stop the sin. Its a neat little package when it comes to born again virgins. You see, if she asked for and got forgiveness for sinful fornication, she can’t do it again or its willfull sin.

So even tho Emily and her BF banged already, if she asked for forgiveness they’d technically need to stop. Of course Tue easier method is to not ask for forgiveness. Lol

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

“I would do the same but my relationship w my father is more precious to me than anything. ‘sides, 82,000$ of college tuition still left to pay”

EGads!
82k still left to pay and you’re only on your second year?
I’ll assume and hope that you mean that will be the cost by the end.
I’d suggest a more marketable major.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Liz – a buddy of mine married a woman that had about 150000+ in college debt. No lie. She just HAD to attend a private Catholic college for about 60K a year. At least she got grant and scholarship money so it all wasn’t put on credit. And she got an IT degree! I didn’t get my degree until I was 38, and we made about the same salary. Didnt help that she insisted on working for a Catholic hospital. Non-profit = low pay.

Too many people make education choices using all the wrong criteria..,

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

To he clear: the total wasnt just tuition. The college was away from home, so living expenses were high. Tuition alone was probably closer to 40k a year with books. Off campus apartment, car. Etc added a lot. And of course she couldnt work while studying. Lol. So she lived on loans and grants for four years essentially.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Liz, that price tag is rather typical in the higher end .edu’s.

And just look at what Daddy is getting for his coin, too!

PS to Emily:
How much longer do you plan to cock-tease the poor sap who is liviing with you, again? I mean, surely you’ve set a date for the wedding, right?

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

Wow, Tedd. It’s not just the debt but what that’s going to do to the married life once the kids are born and those obligations have a rapidly cascading set of consequences (similar to an avalanche). When I was working full time with kids, for instance, the taxes plus the direct and indirect work related expenses took about 60 percent of my paycheck. That’s pretty common in my experience. So I was really working for only 40 percent of my ostensible income and spending 40 to 50 hours a week in a stressful field which had a lot of indirect… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

“Liz, that price tag is rather typical in the higher end .edu’s.”

For a couple of years or the whole degree? I have a vested interesting in knowing, the pain is going to start for us soon. Duck one is leaving the nest next year.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Liz Wow, Tedd. It’s not just the debt but what that’s going to do to the married life once the kids are born… What kids? Checked the birth rate among middle class people lately? I kid. But not much. Women like Emily now come with a negative dowry – college debt equal to the price of a starter house – not to mention the lovely attitudes they tend to learn in philosophy class. And the society wonders, where are all the good men who want to wife them up once they’ve ridden the carousel for a few years post-graduate? Bear… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

@Rollo, “Late term virgins”, perfect. Forgot about that one.

It’s not true that Rollo has a previous posting to deal with any question. Just almost…

“Born again virgin”, yeah, sure…used car smell at a new car price…

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Liz – no kids. Marriage lasted all of 2 years. Too many predictable reasons why it ended to list.

We are both on the same “former Catholic boy turned heathen” path. Lol

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Liz
Education is a racket.

Yeah, pretty much anything other than STEM is a waste of money. We can see in this thread what philosophy majors are worth…

Higher ed is in a bubble bigger than the housing bubble of a few years back. When it implodes it will be interesting to see how all the useless big-mouthed tenured drones react.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Rollo – I’m sure you know that with me you’re preaching to the choir. Having left the Church nothing cracks me up more than seeing adults voluntarily signing up. Organized religion (that is The Church) is nothing more than a form of control, no different than the government. Its clear to see that Church leaders are more concerned with what’s good for the Church than the actual faith they claim to represent. That’s not to say I don’t have faith. I have more faith today than I ever did attending Church. Partly because my faith is no longer dictated by… Read more »

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

Organized Religion is similar to organized crime in a lot of things.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

Emily, “”but my relationship w my father is more precious to me than anything. ‘sides, 82,000$ of college tuition still left to pay :/”” ” my father”! What happened to ” my daddy”? Your “precious” relationship with your father/daddy is based on the tuition you owe him, it is a copy of your “precious” relationship with your spineless bf, in other words : EXTORTION. Your dad shouldn’t pay you a dime, let your spineless/ no balls bf pay you. “” You guys cannot see it from a Christian perspective.”” The Bible told you to marry first, THEN, move in with… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

” my father”! What happened to ” my daddy”?

Coming up soon: Mah SUGAH daddy!

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

@IAS If you are an ex-catholic then you know that repentance, confession and forgiveness is a big part of our religion. But when you repent a sin once you cannot repeat it. I made mistakes when I was a teen cause I didn’t understand my religion. @Liz The tuition is 40,000 per year. Add in books and extra costs (activities) and you get to 82,000 for the next two years. You guys are right that if you are gonna take a 100,000 dollar loan from a college to study, then you should make it STEM. But I’m not taking any… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

“You guys are right that if you are gonna take a 100,000 dollar loan from a college to study, then you should make it STEM. But I’m not taking any loans. So Im just studying what I find interesting.”

LOL! Of course you aren’t taking out any loans. Daddy is footing the bill. Did you tell him you weren’t going for STEM because it isn’t interesting?

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

Emily, “”If you are an ex-catholic then you know that repentance, confession and forgiveness is a big part of our religion. But when you repent a sin once you cannot repeat it. I made mistakes when I was a teen cause I didn’t understand my religion.”” Hey, hey, Emily, You should have written the above statement like this : I fucked the young alphas when I was in my teen cause I understood my religion, and I knew my religion and my hamster would forgive me for all the tingle fucks, after all, if priests can get away with fucking… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

What Emily is thinking :
With my past sexual “activities” + debt + spineless bf being teased for my pussy + repentance on my side , my pussy does ,,, wonders , I don’t even want to study anymore.
I’m so looking forward to be a stay at home parasite , and a good Christian, “of course”.

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

Activities mean rec center fees morons.
Yes, my dad is paying my tuition. A lot of students have their parents pay for part or all of their tuition. Why do people shame us? I mean, I’m sorry that your parents were lazy freeloaders who don’t care about you but that’s not my fault.
My brother was pressured into a STEM field (Software Engineering) by my dad. I was allowed to do whatever I wanted to because I’m not planning on working.

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

Confession is one of the worst things about the Church and one of the first things I dropped (well before I became an atheist). It is a very clever power play by the Church as it gives them some level of thought control. If God existed and was omniscient, why else do you need to tell your sins to a human mediator? But if you think about it, Confession isn’t for you or God, is for the Church. The first thing I did was cut out the middle man. Eventually I cut out God, if I do something I think… Read more »

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

I don’t even know where to start with Emily’s latest post. Emily: 1. Plans on not working. 2. Still gets a “useless” degree, on daddy’s money. At least she is apparently no longer riding the CC while being sponsored by her father. 3. Says other people’s parents were lazy freeloaders – sorry, not her fault (correct); is apparently a lazy freeloader herself. I wonder what happens if/when Emily has kids. Gets and demands a husband to not be a lazy freeloader to pay for kids tuition, possibly? Like what Emily’s mother apparently has done (note dad is with a young… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

Emily, let me get this straight…You are now an adult and you’re going to college and don’t plan on using the degree. Your only future plan, career-wise, is to “not work” and in the meantime you take “classes that interest you” at the expense of tens of thousands of dollars each year from your father’s bank account. There’s this really neat thing called the internet where you can look up just about all the knowledge known to man, and you can buy actual class lectures online for virtually free in whatever subject area interests you. There are also books available… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Emily – shit. Let me go dig my grandfather up and tell him he was a lazy ass for busting his hump in a steel mill but not making enough for all of us to get a free ride… You represent absolutely everything that’s wrong with our society in terms of entitlement. What exactly have you contributed to anything worthwhile? Have you earned a dime on your own? Lord I hope you are a troll. It saddens me to think there are more like you out there. You are an entitled, elitist bitch with absolutely no compassion or empathy for… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Ya know, on second thought, thanks for showing up Emily. I’ve been concerned that my oldest was turning into a flake because she’s now in college and getting all that wonderful liberal education. But she has a job, pays for her own car, and understands the value of a dollar. Oh and my lazy contribution to her future? I offered her free living and one solid meal a day. She has since moved out and has managed to keep on trucking with very little help from me. She’ll be 22 in March. Think you could make it a month on… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“Think you could make it a month on your own without daddy’s money?”

If daddy won’t pay the way for his little princess, plenty of other men will…she probably won’t even have to fuck ’em.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Oh hell. I forgot she is already living with a guy. If daddy cut her off today, they’d be having sex tonight and she’d start clearing out his bank account tomorrow…

Damn she’s good! Already has daddy beta provider and BF chump provider in waiting, literally.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Emily should take hopelessly hypergamous’ story to heart. That’s her in 10-15 years.

She won’t though, why would she?

I love women, I really do. But as more and more men check out and say “fuck it” these women deserve every ounce of pain, heartbreak, and loneliness they got coming.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

CaveClown – it won’t happen unless/until princess can no longer get what she wants with her looks and youth.

It occurred to me that minus the religion, Emily is following the HUS script to the letter. So much so that the conspiracy theorist in my brain is taking notice. If this isn’t an awesome troll, she should go there for sympathy. They’ll take her with open arms after being beat up by us nasty, angry, bitter, pervy old men.

20 years old and still living on daddy’s dime, and she thinks her opinion counts. LOL. Its freaking adorable…

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Emily, It’s been two days since I have posted. I’m have to confess. I lied. I am a regular poster here. And Ayn Rand isn’t really feminine in her writing. Thats it. I was driving to work this morning and I was listening to Kacey Musgraves and the song Pageant Material reminded me of you, just like the song Biscuits reminded me of InsanityBytes. There’s certain things you’re s’posed to know When you’re a girl who grows up in the south I try to use my common sense But my foot always ends up in my mouth And if I… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Cut her some slack? When she comes back with a few years of actual adult living, perhaps. Considering her current living arrangements, she already has a ton of slack. Lol

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

One sec, I’ve read several of Rollo’s articles where he talks negatively about ‘careerist’ women, but now I’m being attacked and called a lazy freeloader for not wanting to pursue a career? Or is it just that you guys want to attack women regardless? Idk, I don’t get you people buuut at least you guys are amusing. Housewives aren’t lazy or ‘extortionists.’ Raising children is a full time job. Liz, I never said my degree is useless, but I know its not as useful as a STEM degree. You learn a lot in college. Also, If I ever do want… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

I can’t speak for everyone else, but I’m “picking on you” because you stormed in here complaining we were unfair and mean, and then proceeded to demonstrate how little you’ve actually lived on your own. By all accounts none at all. And you expect me to take you seriously? How the hell do you know what mean is if you haven’t had to support yourself a day of your life? Mean to you is probably that daddy won’t buy you a new car. Mean for some of us is we lost everything: family. House. Income. You’re a pampered princess trying… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“Furthermore, within my circles you won’t be respected at all if you don’t have at least a bachelor’s degree.”

lol

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

“One sec, I’ve read several of Rollo’s articles where he talks negatively about ‘careerist’ women, but now I’m being attacked and called a lazy freeloader for not wanting to pursue a career? Or is it just that you guys want to attack women regardless? Idk, I don’t get you people buuut at least you guys are amusing. Housewives aren’t lazy or ‘extortionists.’ Raising children is a full time job.” They aren’t calling housewives and mothers extortionists. I don’t see where this is implied. But you are going to school and spending tens of thousands of dollars of your parents’ money… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

And even if I’d never worked, nursing is very very good to know when your child or loved one has an emergency situation. I’m glad to be an RN just so I understand what is happening and the hospital and can protect my family, even if I never go to work in a hospital again.

-Liz out

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“(good hours for those times you might have to work…your husband might lose his job, or be in transition, or disabled, or something, this happens)”

Well Liz, she’ll probably just do what my wife said she would do in those circumstances…leave him.

“I know that I would not be willing to support you if you got cancer” – my wife.

(after discussing a friend of hers who’s wife was leaving him because he had cancer)

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

CC – Jeebus! I think I’d rather be lied to… We weathered a layoff a little over a year ago. First time since I tuned 17 that I collected unemployment. (Kinda glad I finally got some of my money back lol) It was tough, and the relationship suffered, but things never got past a few heated “debates” about where our lower monthly income was going. Now, I feel I should point out that while on unemployment, I was still bringing in slightly more than the wife. Why mention it? Because it still gave me some ground to stand on without… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

That sucks, CC. How horrible. 🙁 Our family went through a time of transition and I was the sole provider for a short time. We did fine, but it’s really really a good thing to be in a position where one can help out if and when that happens. So for the “I’m going to be a stay at home mother” folks I recommend either going to college for something useful on that front, or do something instead such as learning some useful skills while accruing a nest egg. If you aren’t doing either of those things you aren’t really… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Emily, ” Yes, my dad is paying my tuition. A lot of students have their parents pay for part or all of their tuition. Why do people shame us? I mean, I’m sorry that your parents were lazy freeloaders who don’t care about you but that’s not my fault.” This is some bullshit right here. You entitled little..piece of…princess. Assholes that have stuff handed to them don’t have a right to question those who have to WORK for what they get. You do what you want because Daddy’s footing the bill. STFU and keep your head down and spend his… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“I’m “picking on you” because you stormed in here complaining we were unfair and mean . . .”

Pretty standard fare, doesn’t bother me much. What sets our little Emily apart a bit is that her opening “argument” was “STFU.”

Walk into a man’s home and without even bothering to say “hello” immediately tell him to shut the fuck up, he just might not be the most congenial of hosts.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Liz and tedd,

I wasn’t fishing (heh) for sympathy, but thank you.

I just know how this super entitled princess thing works, lol.

On the bright side, the epiphany phase for a princess is EPIC to watch.

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

Rollo, by careerist I don’t mean women who work, but women who value career over their marriage and children. You talked about that in an article ‘timeline of a professional woman’ and we can both agree that those women are terrible for society. Cave Clown, that sucks. Buuut, that’s your just desserts for all that you’ve said about women here. Personally, I’m a devout Catholic and hate the idea of divorce, I won’t be leaving my man for anything short of adultery and abuse. Liz, unless you actually worked in a chemistry related field for several years, your degree was… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

“Liz, unless you actually worked in a chemistry related field for several years, your degree was less useful than mine. BA in philosophy develops critical thinking, debate skills and logic.” I taught science at a middle school for a year (emergency certified, many states will do that for a science major with a math minor). It was also a short program with that background for me to get certified as an MT so I was able to work as a clinical chemist in a medical lab. Believe what you want. If your current course of education were truly engaging your… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“Buuut, that’s your just desserts for all that you’ve said about women here.”

lol

You’re a classy twat aren’t ya.

I didn’t address you directly because I don’t argue with children or broads.

And you’re both, so fuck off.

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

Just to add: I wouldn’t say chemistry is a good choice for a future stay at home wife/mother though. It’s not. But it hadn’t been my plan to marry young and move around all the time either. My plan had been to go into engineering and get a masters in Materials Science. For that it would have been great. So, with the information I had at the time I did the right thing.

By contrast, you (ostensibly) know your plan and with that information what you are pursuing is incorrect, unhelpful, and very expensive.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Emily – “I’m sorry if you guys found my comment about lazy freeloaders offensive. But there are parents who work very hard to provide for their children, to ensure they don’t have debt from college tuition, and you guys were shaming them and their children. If your parents saved 5,000 for your college every year, for 15 years, you could go to literally any state college. But many parents are not responsible.” Sweetheart, all my mother and grandparents could do is make sure I had food to eat, a roof to sleep under, and clothes on my back. The idea… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

Tedd, my husband came from a family that is very well off, and this sounds very much like his sister. She was taught no fiscal responsibility whatsoever and her debts were always paid. It was that way throughout her life and she is now in her late 40s and her husband’s paycheck would never be sufficient to feed even half of her spending habits. Well…after paying off her debts time and again they have tired and refuse to do so anymore. She’s in bad shape. Married, but no kids. She wasn’t able to have kids, which is probably fortunate.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

For the record: I have respect for any man or woman that busts their ass to improve their kids future. What I do NOT respect is the children of those hard working men and women, when they show a total lack of compassion and empathy for others still busting their ass.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

” But many parents are not responsible.” Rollo do we have to? Emily, while your studying take a course in FUCK OFF 101. Being lectured by a ( supposedly ) 20 year old entitled Ho….damn. Clueless asswipe. You are not grateful that your father had the means and the luck to save enough to put your silly ass through school. Lots and lots of parents don’t have the means to save 5,000 bucks a year towards college you fucking idiot. But no, you can’t shut the fuck up about it. You’re shamed for THAT reason. You’re the worst kind of… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Preach it brother tedd! I hear ya on parents and money growing up… Parents save for my college? Right. My elementary school had barbed wire around the playground because one of my friends got abducted and murdered. Nice neighborhood. Good thing is we left when we lost the house and became homeless, again. So yeah, college, whoo hoo. My kids’ college is fully funded already though. Guarantee you they will be working while in school and will pick a degree with high demand. Otherwise, daddy keeps his money. Gratefulness and humility go a long way towards a good life, unfortunately… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Liz – Not surprised at all.

Its one thing to be young, inexperienced, and generally dumb. We all go through it. But nothing irritates me more than a young, inexperienced asshat with entitlement issues. Its funny, she talks about how hard her dad worked to put her through college, but so far the decisions she makes and the way she talks doesn’t indicate to me that she appreciates it at all.

Maybe that kind of appreciation only comes when the money comes the hard way.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

CC and Tedd – ” Gratefulness and humility go a long way towards a good life, unfortunately some people don’t understand that.” ” Maybe that kind of appreciation only comes when the money comes the hard way.” Evidently. I try to overlook youth and inexperience. I’ll even overlook a lack of knowledge, especially in 20 year olds. But her whole entitled thing just rubs me the wrong damn way. And then she won’t just stfu about it. I worked 2 jobs to put myself through school. My parents could not afford it, not because they were lazy freeloaders, but because… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Her dad is a beta, so is her boyfriend. It’s evident by both her sense of entitlement plus her being here to get some feelz.

She’ll cheat on her boyfriend with the first alpha that comes along that hits her attraction and arousal triggers, if she isn’t already.

I’m just here cause I like drama, lol.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

CaveClown – “Guarantee you they will be working while in school and will pick a degree with high demand. Otherwise, daddy keeps his money.” Well between the wife and I there are four total children to account for. That being the case, we made them all the following deal: If you go to college locally, you can live at home for free the entire time. You can always eat dinner with us, and have access to the food in the kitchen. No rent, no car insurance. Only “cost” to come out of their pocket is gas money to have a… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

“My oldest took us up on that deal for a couple years. She worked, went to school, and managed to still improve herself in the process. Got a promotion at work (which is an overnight job specifically to allow her time for school) and moved out to live on her own. I’m proud as shit, simply because she took the initiative to better herself, and didn’t take advantage of the situation. I’d have been happy to have her here until she completed school, but she wanted to do it on her own. Plus, I’m sure living with my grumpy old… Read more »

longgone
longgone
7 years ago

tedd, Blaximus, Cave, scribbler….

I was about to launch into another scold for feeding the troll (and associated concern-twats), but upon further reflection can only say…. well played gentlemen; well played indeed…..

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“I’d pull out of there quicker than…”

Good advice, but I’ll be the first to admit that my pull out game is weak.

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

Topic idea for Rollo:

Pullout Game.
🙂

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Slip out the back, Jack.

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

Look, all I was saying was that if parents do have the means of providing for their children’s college tuition then they should, and their children shouldn’t be shamed for having their education’s paid for. That’s exactly what you guys were saying to me. If your parents actually did work hard but didn’t make enough to pay your tuition, then I’m sorry, but my comment was not aimed towards those parents. My criticism was directed towards parents who are lazy, or neglect their children and overspend on their own stuff. If that’s not you, then no need to get angry… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

And, here is the “I’m not so bad!” backtracking & gas lighting.

So predictable.

*yawn*

*stretch*

*scratches balls*

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Emily – I don’t hate you. Hell I don’t even know you. A BA means absolutely squat. A college degree in many/most cases simply means you can memorize and regurgitate information on command, at least long enough to pass the chapter test. I’ve known many folks with degrees working in IT. Many of them are solid workers that know their shit and get the job done. Others are what we used to call “paper tigers”, people with degrees and certifications that can’t do the job to save their lives. No one will ever impress me with the letters after their… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Perfect time for that quote Rollo! There are many men here with means. Thing is, every damn one I’ve ever seen make a comment worked for it, and understand what it takes to get it. I’m sure Emily thinks we are a bunch of beer swilling cave men, but she’d shit herself if she saw half of us. Not because we are Alpha bad asses, but because we aren’t all sitting on our recliner in a stained up wife beater drinking Natty Ice or PBR. Some of us even wear suits! But, from what I’ve gather of her “social circle”… Read more »

Emily
Emily
7 years ago

^TSM, BGR, Insanity’s blog and your blog. Thats four.
Yeah I read some of your articles. So? Your readers asked me to, cause they said you were not a misogynist. So I looked around, and realized they were full of shit.

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

So tell me Emily, are we uneducated or are you full of shit with this quote?

“Oh, and the fact that, in general, misogyny is most prevalent among the low income/low education class.”

But I’m the one that got the wrong idea that you were an elitist snob, right?

“Your readers asked me to, cause they said you were not a misogynist. So I looked around, and realized they were full of shit.”

ROFL. Back at you sweetheart.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

tedd- u know, I keep reminding myself to just move along and ignore this broad, but IRL when I run into some wet behind the ears dipshit, I take great delight in pulling their coat. A 20 year old coming into a male space ( where women are allowed to join in from time to time ) and yapping about ” education ” and ” misogyny ” is a bit infuriating because it’s on the interwebs and I can’t look in her eyeballs. LOL. LMFAO. Elitist snob? Oh man, you called that correctly. Since I’ve been reading TRM, the last… Read more »

CaptainMaeve
CaptainMaeve
7 years ago

Why do you say that: “more often than not truths must be brought to women by men?”

kobayashii1681
7 years ago

@”20yrold”philosophyundergrad:

Sooooooo Emilyyyyy…..

How much longer do you plan to cock-tease the poor sap who is liviing with you, again? I mean, surely you’ve set a date for the wedding, right?

teddj4g
teddj4g
7 years ago

Blaximus – I get some enjoyment out of the banter, but the truth is I love that she just keeps on going like the energizer bunny. Every comment she makes just paints her more into the corner she made for herself. Plus, for the younger guys here, this is a prime example of entitlement in a young woman. Read up fellas, this is what do avoid! Further, it cracks me up she thinks she knows what a misogynist looks like! Good Lord, does she really believe every stereotype she’s ever seen? I’ve known straight up racist bastards that wear a… Read more »

Liz
Liz
7 years ago

“Liz, I think it’s very unfair of you to insinuate that I have a ‘spoiled princess mentality’ based on the few details that I (accidentally) gave here.” I have learned quite a bit about you in a short time, not by the few specific details you’ve given, but by the way you conveyed them. -Phrases like “freeloading parents” for parents who can’t afford to pay for their children’s college education -followed quickly by speaking of saving 5,000 dollars per year in addition to all the costs of living and raising a child (just so you know, since you don’t seem… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@CaptainMaeve:

Because a man’s word is his bond, but a woman’s deception is her life.
A man must rely on his right hand man in battle, a woman must rely on being able to convince the winner of the battle not to kill her.
Men seek truth, women seek survival.

And that’s just the way it is and there’s nothing you can do about.

lh
lh
7 years ago

Don’t let these bitter misogynists hurt you, Emily. Of course your fathers investment in your ability to look for something better than your current bf at college is sound. If you’ll find another guy there who will make only 1000$ more per month, that 84.000$ will pay off if you only stay married with him for 10 years.

A Definite Beta Guy
7 years ago

Work sucks. I never realized how much work sucked until I actually worked in a corporate environment. I am training a team from India that flew in, and my account manager routinely comes in and complains everything I teach them is wrong. When he leaves, we dig more into the situation, and find out that I am right. Several us tried arguing with him for several minutes, but he arrogantly refuses to believe anyone and had us fraudulently rebill an insurance claim. I had to go back and reverse the claim today because it was 100% wrong. Annoying, since I… Read more »

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