Hypergamy Knows Best

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One of the most basic Red Pill principles I’ve stressed since I began writing is the importance of Frame. The dynamic of Frame stretches into many aspects of a man’s life, but in a strictly intergender sense this applies to men establishing a positive dominance in their relationships with women. In a dating context of non-exclusivity (plate spinning) this means, as a man, you have a solid reality into which that woman wants to be included in. Holding Frame is not about force, or coercion, it’s about attraction and desire and a genuine want on the part of a woman to be considered for inclusion into that man’s reality.

Being allowed into a man’s dominant, confident Frame should be a compliment to that woman’s self-perception. It should be a prize she seeks.

This is a pretty basic principle when you think about it. The main reason women overwhelmingly prefer men older than themselves (statistically 5-7 years difference) is because of the psychological impression that men older than a woman’s age should be more established in his understanding of the world, his career, his direction in life and his mastery over himself and his conditions. From an Alpha Fucks perspective, the ambience of mastery makes an older man preferable, while a Beta Bucks older man represents the prospect of dependable provisioning.

In our contemporary sexual marketplace I think this perception – which used to hold true in a social climate based on the old set of books – is an increasing source of disappointment for women as they move from their post-college party years into the more stressful Epiphany Phase.

And once again we also see evidence of yet another conflict between egalitarianism vs. complementarity. Because all things should be equalized, equalism espouses that this age preference should make no difference in attraction, yet the influence of this natural complementary attraction becomes a source of internal conflict.

Women’s self-perception of personal worth becomes wrapped up in a tight egotistical package that’s tells her men – the men she’s convinced she deserves – should be attracted to and aroused by her based on whatever nebulous personal conviction she has, fat-acceptance approved ideas of what men should be hot for, and he ought to be ready to settle into a coequal parental ‘partnership’ when she’s finally ready to do the right thing.

It’s an interesting paradox. On one hand she’s expects a Hypergamously better than equitable pairing with a self-made man who will magically appreciate her for her self-perceptions of her own personal worth, but also to be, as Sheryl Sandberg puts it, “someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” In other words, an exceptional, high SMV man, with a self-earned world and Frame she wants to partake of; but also one who will be so smitten by her intrinsic qualities (the qualities she hopes will compensate for her physical and personal deficits) that he will compromise the very Frame that made him worthy of her intimacy, and then reduce himself to an equality that lessens him to her.

The Red Pill Father – Frame

The reason I’m going into this is because of a basic tenet of Frame: The Frame you set in the beginning of your relationship will set the tone for the future of that relationship. That isn’t to say men don’t devolve from a strong Alpha frame to a passive Beta one, but the Frame you enter into a relationship with will be the mental impression that woman retains as it develops. Your establishment and maintenance of a strong control of Frame is not just imperative to a healthy relationship and interaction with a woman, but it’s also vital to the health of any family environment and the upbringing of any children that result from it.

At the Man In Demand conference I was asked about my thoughts on the influence family plays in conditioning boys/men to accept a Beta role in life. Mainly the question was about a mother’s dominant influence on her children’s upbringing and how an unconventional shift in intersexual hierarchies predisposes her to imprinting her Hypergamous insecurities onto her children. It gave me a lot to think about.

A common thread I’ve occasionally found with newly Red Pill aware men is the debilitating influence their domineering mothers and Beta supplicating fathers played in forming their distorted perception of masculinity. I made an attempt to address this influence in the Intersexual Hierarchies posts, however, I intended those essays to provide an outline of particular hierarchical models, not really to cover the individual health or malaise of any of them.

From Frame:

The default pedestalization of women that men are prone to is a direct result of accepting that a woman’s frame is the only frame. It’s kind of hard for most ‘plugged in’ men to grasp that they can and should exert frame control in order to establish a healthy future relationship. This is hardly a surprise considering that every facet of their social understanding about gender frame has always defaulted to the feminine for the better part of their lifetimes. Whether that was conditioned into them by popular media or seeing it played out by their beta fathers, for most men in western culture, the feminine reality IS the normalized frame work. In order to establish a healthy male-frame, the first step is to rid themselves of the preconception that women control frame by default. They don’t, and honestly, they don’t want to.

Post LTR Frame
In most contemporary marriages and LTR arrangements, women tend to be the de facto authority. Men seek their wive’s “permission” to attempt even the most mundane activities they’d do without an afterthought while single. I have married friends tell me how ‘fortunate’ they are to be married to such an understanding wife that she’d “allow” him to watch hockey on their guest bedroom TV,…occasionally.

These are just a couple of gratuitous examples of men who entered into marriage with the frame firmly in control of their wives. They live in her reality, because anything can become normal. What these men failed to realize is that frame, like power, abhors a vacuum.  In the absence of the frame security a woman naturally seeks from a masculine male, this security need forces her to provide that security for herself. Thus we have the commonality of cuckold and submissive men in westernized culture, while women do the bills, earn the money, make the decisions, authorize their husband’s actions and deliver punishments. The woman is seeking the security that the man she pair-bonded with cannot or will not provide.

It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized.

The primary problem men encounter with regard to their marriages is that the dominant, positively masculine Frame they should have established while single (and benefitting from competition anxiety) decays to a Beta mindset and the man abdicates authority and deference to his wife’s feminine primary Frame. This is presuming that dominant Frame ever existed while he was dating his wife. Most men experience this decay in three ways:

  • A decline to his wife’s Frame via his relinquishing an authority he isn’t comfortable embracing.
  • An initial belief in a misguided egalitarian ideal that redefines masculinity has him surrender Frame
  • He was so pre-whipped by a lifetime of Blue Pill Beta conditioning he already expects to live within a woman’s Frame

Of these, the last is the most direct result of an upbringing within a feminine-primary Frame. I think one of the most vital realizations a Red Pill man has to consider is how Red Pill truths and his awareness of them influences the meta-dynamic of raising and instructing subsequent generations.

As I’ve intoned in many a post, Hypergamy is both pragmatic and rooted in a survival-level doubt about its optimization. When a woman’s insecurity about her life-determining Hypergamous decisions are concretely answered by the positively, conventionally, masculine Man who is both her pair-bonded husband and the father of her children, that doubt is allayed and a gender-complementary environment for raising children proceeds from that security.

In a positively masculine dominant Frame, where that woman’s desire is primarily focused on her man, (and where that man’s SMV exceeds his wife’s by at least a factor of 1) this establishes at least a tenable condition of quieting a woman’s Hypergamous doubt about the man she’s consolidated monogamy and parental investment with.

In a condition where that husband is unable or unwilling (thanks to egalitarian beliefs) to establish his dominant Frame this leaves a woman’s Hypergamous doubt as the determinant of the health of the overall family. That doubt and the insecurities that extend from Hypergamous selection set the tone for educating any children that result from it.

In the last post I made the case that deliberately single, primarily female, parents arrogantly assume they can teach a child both masculine and feminine aspects equally well. In the case where a wife/mother assumes the headship of family authority, both she and the Frame abdicating father/husband reverse this conventional gender modeling for their children.

That woman’s dominant Frame becomes the reality not just her husband must enter, but also their children, and also their family relatives. That feminine dominant Frame is one that is predicated on the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamous doubts.

Is he really the best she can do?”

Play Don’t Pay had an observation from the last post:

I think this “putting the kids first” phenomenon is very simple to explain. She DOESN’T WANT TO FUCK YOU!
She is using the kids as a shield, a barrier to deflect your UNWANTED BETA SEXUAL ADVANCES.
It is generally accepted that women are only interested in the top 20% of men, and if you are talking about as marriage partners I would agree with this.

However if you are talking about as SEX partners that they are genuinely hot for I would estimate this percentage to be north of 5% add in the frame required to maintain her SEXUAL interest in a marriage / LTR and your probably closer to 1-2%.
It’s really that simple! the women that are with these top tier men, the top 1-2% don’t need to be told to put them before the kids, they do it because he IS more important to her than her kids, because if he leaves she will never be able to replace him with another top tier man now she has his kids in tow.

Top tier men don’t raise other mens children and she knows this instinctively.
If you think you can mitigate this by being top 20% and reading a few articles on frame and dread game then I think you will be disappointed.

Sure you can improve your relationship but your probably not going to be able to command the visceral raw desire that women have for the top tier men that makes the do this shit naturally under their own violation.

“Is he really the best she can do?”

In a feminine-primary Frame, that question defines every aspect of that family’s life and development together. It’s important for Red Pill aware men to really meditate on that huge truth. If you do not set, and maintain, a dominant masculine Frame, if you do not accept you role in a conventional complementary relationship, that woman will feel the need to assume the responsibility for her own, and her children’s, security. Women’s psychological firmware predispose them to this on a visceral, limbic, species-survival level.

I’ve met with countless men making a Red Pill transition in life who’ve related stories about the burdening influence of their domineering mothers and Beta supplicating fathers leading to them being brought up to repeat that Blue Pill cycle. I’ve also counseled guys who were raised by their single mothers who had nothing but spite and resentment for the Alpha Asshole father who left her. They too took it upon themselves to be men who sacrifice their masculinity for equalism in order to never be like Dad the asshole. I’ve met with the guys whose mothers had divorced their dutiful fathers to bang their bad boy tingle generating boyfriends (whom they equally despised) and they too were molded by their mother’s Hypergamous decisions.

And this is what I’m trying to emphasize here; in all of these upbringing conditions it is the mother’s Hypergamous doubt that is the key motivating influence on her children. That lack of a father with a positive, strong, dominant Frame puts his children at risk of an upbringing based on that mother’s Hypergamous self-questioning doubt. Add to this the modern feminine-primary social order that encourages women’s utter blamelessness in acting upon this Hypergamous doubt and you can see how the cycle of creating weak, gender confused men and vapid entitled women perpetuates itself.

Finally, to the guys who are psychologically stuck on the shitty conditions they had to endure because of this cycle, to the men who are still dealing with how mommy fucked them up or daddy was a Beta; the best thing you can do is recognize the cycle I’ve illustrated for you here. That’s the first step. The Red Pill is great at getting you laid, but it’s much more powerful than that; it gives you the insight to see the influences that led to where you find yourself today.

Once you’ve recognized the Red Pill truths behind your Blue Pill conditioning, then it’s time to realign yourself, and recreate yourself in defiance to them. The longer you wallow in the self-pitiful condition that your mother’s Hypergamy and your father’s passive Beta-ness embedded in you, the longer you allow that Blue Pill  schema to define who you are.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Snoman
Snoman
5 years ago

RM,
Excellent timing once again. This article summarized and answered a few thoughts and questions I’ve been pondering the past couple weeks. I’ll read it at least once more to solidify the foundation being built.
Stay sharp..

A Definite Beta Guy
5 years ago

Please delete the above.

In “Once Upon a Time,” Rumplestilskin finds out his wife left him for a Pirate. So he ripped out his wife’s heart and chopped off the Pirate’s hand.

Interesting.

lh
lh
5 years ago

Rollo: “Strong, positively masculine Frame control accounts for exactly this Sword of Damocles in applying it. There are women who hold their men in such high esteem that the thought of calling the cops on him never enters her mind. Dread can be such a motivating factor that women will repeatedly return to an unfaithful cad or an abusive lover.” This is important stuff. Blaximus’ very good addition about the value of some threat component in the personality also seems to fit my experience, it might even be more important than frame. The answer could be “I think hypergamy seeks… Read more »

10x10
10x10
5 years ago

Get ready Rollo, it looks like this is the Oregon killer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuf59ex-U0 And as you will see, he is another Eliot Rodgers. But he is very steeped in Red Pill thought. He uses the terms: “alpha fux”, “beta bux”, “red pill”, and a host of other Manospherean staples. I wouldn’t be surprised if your site as well as Roissy’s were mentioned. His philosophy and his negativity are definitely Manosphere / Red Pill derived. Like Rodgers, he was obsessed with “genetically superior males”. He must of heard of PUA but didn’t go down that road. To him, he didn’t have superior… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

Ah, holy shit, that guys face looks like my sister. No, I am not joking, I thought it was a girl.

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
5 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

@Jeremy

He’s got a forehead and receding hairline like a blogger named Jaclyn Glenn. Google her.

Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

If women have been “dominated” by men for history (10,000 years) as feminism assumes, then wouldn’t it be logical that men are superior to women? Aren’t we all born into the same world with the same natural, resources, same air, same water, and same human resources? Wouldn’t it be perfectly logical to deduce that men are superior because we are all individual and competing for those same resources? Has man been accused by feminism to use women as a resource? This usury could not have occurred and man could not have maintained it for so long unless by his innate… Read more »

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

“It’s an interesting paradox. On one hand she’s expects a Hypergamously better than equitable pairing with a self-made man who will magically appreciate her for her self-perceptions of her own personal worth, but also to be,….In other words, an exceptional, high SMV man, with a self-earned world and Frame she wants to partake of; but also one who will be so smitten by her intrinsic qualities (the qualities she hopes will compensate for her physical and personal deficits) that he will compromise the very Frame that made him worthy of her intimacy, and then reduce himself to an equality that… Read more »

10x10
10x10
5 years ago

He is like another version of androgynous Pat from the old SNL skit. He talks about being “genetic shit” and how things will never get good for him. He felt like he had no chance of ever getting a girl or a relationship. He may of also had a blog called “Omega Virgin Revolt” which was anti PUA but pro MRA (the blog is very anti “Roisseysphere”). So he knew of game but didn’t think it worked. (If only he had read YaReally’s million words of walled text and watched all those RSD videos.) This kid was the very definition… Read more »

10x10
10x10
5 years ago

But the relevant point for Rollo is that this kid’s rants are indistinguishable from many of the posts in the comments section of Rational Male. Watching his videos makes me think that he was well read with Rollo’s work.

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

I agree with Rollo when he talks in “Kill the Beta” about cursing Jung regarding equalism and the whole feminine side trope…100% However, there is a quote attributed to Jung and I don’t know if it’s him I think with regards to helping men achieve red pill awareness, for their own benefit, and especially towards learning enlightened self interest… “”Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.” – Carl Jung Introspection…this and perseverance. Take time…it’s a journey. I think introspection is innate to men, but like the alphaness, it is socialised out of us, just in case one day we’re… Read more »

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

Just reading about the shooting…
Had a feeling it the Elliot Rodger meme would/will be pushed…
It’s like the F.I manufactures these Manchurian candidates to try and turn back the silent tidal wave that’s forming….of course they’ll never accept culpability for creating the environment that forms these kind of individuals.

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
5 years ago

Feminism and the death of Patriarchy will result in multitudes of incels. Some of them are bound to be crazy and do something stupid. The manosphere really needs a way to address those few who will get the lot of us painted as crazy.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Fuck, I just watched that Youtube video of the Oregon mass shooter. In no particular order: Self-improvement or death – Those are your choices if you are a man. Period. Dot. End of sentence. If you choose self-improvement, it’s hard but rewarding at times. But if you don’t, you will either die the slow death I see so many men around me living through or kill yourself. There will be more of these incidents. Just look at the suffering written all over this guys face, listen to the abject sadness he reeks of. Many, many men are suffering just as… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

Well, now that we know that guy isn’t the shooter… holy cow is there some way to help that guy see something positive? Anyone live near him?

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

That video killed me. I feel really bad for the guy, but at the same time I have an overwhelming urge to grab him by his shirt collar, pull him out of the car and slap him furiously about the head and shoulders. I get that some men are genetically more attractive to women. That’s not breaking news. But to hear how this guy keeps repeating: genetically superior, genetically superior, genetically sup…. JezuzLawdHaveMercey already. he believes that there is a massive fuck-fest going on out in the world, and he’s not invited. What do you say to a guy like… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
5 years ago

So I’ve watched half that video and sorry to say, but the dude isn’t wrong. A good percentage of men simply aren’t going to make the cut in this new environment. Hopefully they will embrace something akin to the grass eaters, but a strategy for these guys has to evolve. We don’t need more Elliot Rodgers.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@10×10 – You stupid fuck, you obviously don’t read the comments here. Most men on this site are shouldering the burden of performance and improving themselves. Most men here are trying to make it work with women – they don’t sound like this guy. The fact that he isn’t the shooter is irrelevant to this point.

He sounds like guys on incel forums and some MGTOW forums though. The real lesson for men out of this is simple. Perform or die.

Dance monkey, fucking dance.

Jeremy
5 years ago

@Is This Thing On? So I’ve watched half that video and sorry to say, but the dude isn’t wrong. A good percentage of men simply aren’t going to make the cut in this new environment. Hopefully they will embrace something akin to the grass eaters, but a strategy for these guys has to evolve. We don’t need more Elliot Rodgers. I’m not sure there is a solution for millions of incels waking up to reality. There are simply going to be a percentage of them that are so incredibly angry with the world they’ve been handed, they’re going to go… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Blaximus – You miss a major point – even though I also agree with what you wrote in many ways. Women choose up – this means that low value men won’t get ass. Period. There is a reason that 50% of men don’t reproduce and that many men live sexless lives. You also need to get that guys like this have often tried many times but have been beaten down to the point of surrender. I mean, do you not think he’s already had the shit slapped out of him by other guys in this world? You wouldn’t be the… Read more »

Mike
Mike
5 years ago

@Bromeo “Is it just me or is the idea of women overtly accepting/stating RP principles on here strange/weird? It almost doesn’t seem genuine or there’s a sense of it being done for an unnatural reason. It’s kind of the opposite of “just getting it” for men.” It seems unnatural. A klaxon sounds off in my brain when I see posts like this. If any female comments here in this manner, she might: 1. Want to derive satisfaction from the prospect of or actual attention, even if only in a virtual, faceless environment. She might be spitting red pill truths left… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
5 years ago

It doesn’t matter if it is genetics or their shit attitude. The incel community is going to grow, and they will become a problem if they don’t find a workable strategy.

Jeremy
5 years ago

@scribblerg This youtube guy (the non-shooter) was probably taught as a kid, when he should have been exploring himself as a take-action individual for his own sexuality, to self-restrict himself sexually and feel better about himself for doing it. He was probably made to feel better about himself for satisfying the FI as a future beta. Because this bullshit was fed to him when he should have been out exploring the possibilities for himself with friends and masculine role-models, and getting the occasional lay, he (as Rollo says) at that point was retarded in his development. He needs to restart… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ scribblerg Hey man! You’re speaking an ugly truth. I just always hate hearing guys just blow themselves up like that. It’s a Genetic defect of mine. Heheheeee. It’s not as if there were 20 men for every woman in the U.S., there’s only a couple of percentage points difference in population by gender, so I have a hard time accepting why a man would be so miserable and just give up. ” I ate dinner alone at a place in the East Village called Veselka tonight – amazing homestyle Ukranian cooking. The borscht was to die for, as were… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Jeremy – Don’t tell me to “Go easy on the ladies”, it smacks of white knighting. I’ll say whatever the fuck I want to them and if you don’t like it, too fucking bad.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@ Jeremy – Your analysis is also highly speculative and ignores the dynamics of female sexual selection. THEY CHOOSE UP. This actually means some guys aren’t going to get laid, no matter how they are raised. If you don’t understand this, you don’t understand anything about human intersexual dynamics.

The game is not “fair”. It’s slanted against men – women choose and men compete for that choice. I’m sure the lecture makes you feel good though…

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@Blaximus – You are a natural alpha and as such have a very hard time imagining what it’s like to be like this guy. You also need to digest what I just reiterated to Jeremy: Throughout human history only about 50% of men get to reproduce. And women choose, and choose up.The game is skewed against men. Digest this for a moment. It means there will be many men who are not successful with women, no matter what. One man can service numerous women – that’s why high value man. It’s a relative thing. If we all “alpha up” they… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
5 years ago
Reply to  scribblerg

@scribblerg

Good point. There must be Betas because it gives nature balance. There can only be so many “Kings of the Hill”

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ scribblerg

I know, I know. You’re correct but damn, it’s a crazy fact. Especially with all of the fat, unattractive broads out there roaming around. They suffer from a mental disease that’s not genetic. A “learned ” mental shortfall.

It almost makes me feeeeeelllll sad for them, but nah. Fuck ’em.

Jeremy
5 years ago

@scribblerg Throughout human history only about 50% of men get to reproduce. That statistic, while nicely mathematically true, hides a gigantic truth.. lots of men through history died before they could reproduce because men were and still are considered expendable. Digest this for a moment. It means there will be many men who are not successful with women, no matter what. One man can service numerous women – that’s why high value man. It’s a relative thing. If we all “alpha up” they will still only pick the higher value men. Even supposing that were true, and I’m willing to… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
5 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

@Jeremy

Have you ever thought about starting a blog?

Badpainter
Badpainter
5 years ago

“THEY CHOOSE UP. This actually means some guys aren’t going to get laid, no matter how they are raised. If you don’t understand this, you don’t understand anything about human intersexual dynamics.” This is a dangerous idea. If it held as sort of transcendent truth that men must accept then it bolsters the primacy if the FI in all intersexual relations. Why? Because as always it expects nothing of women, and everything of men. Therefore quite a few men are fucked. It’s also a dangerous idea when to rigidly applied because it supports criminalizing men’s natural desire for sex. The… Read more »

Scribblerg
Scribblerg
5 years ago

@Ben – But that doesn’t mean any man cannot better himself. In fact this is the only way for a man to live properly. Moon face could work out, get a better haircut, maybe spend one time in the sun etc. he could make himself his own mental point of origin. He could learn game. But still, not all men are strong enough to do that. Let me out it another way, guys. Do you have any idea how strong and extraordinary many of the men here are for taking the hard oath we chose? I’m fine with it. But… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
5 years ago
Reply to  Scribblerg

@Scribblerg Agreed. If we watch his videos we see he was a defeatist. He had such an ego investment in not improving himself that his self loathing consumed him. I agree with you, but some men can’t be saved because they choose to loathe in self pity. To improve yourself, it takes balls. I had an advantage with being genetically gifted, but I also was basically a thug fuck up. Now I work in the Medical Field and I’ve gotten a lot more quality women. If this psycho dude refuses to improve, then he will do this, jack off on… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

@benfromtexas

Have you ever thought about starting a blog?

I have, three times. Strangely I get real picky about what I write, too picky to hit the “post” button on blog software. But for some reason, commenting in comment sections feels very different. Also.. my, employment makes significant involvement in social media a bit of a liability, take that for what you will.

Fine, I’ll stop commenting for a while.

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
5 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

@Jeremy

I enjoy your comments along with Dragonfly and Rollo’s. I was just curious. I feel for you on the job end. Thankfully I’m able to be semi-annonomous as well.
Being in the medical field, some people accept our natural state & some don’t. What’s funny is the “so-called” evolutionary biologists are my worst resistance. Mainly because they are long term/provider makes & someone like me is either shamed or ostracized for how I see things. Weird but true.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Excuse my posting somewhat off topic. It is slightly relevant to the vein of what ScribblerG brought up in reference to women “servicing” men’s needs, red pill girls interjections/understandings and such. ScribblerG said: “As I’ve said many a time, the only thing that would impress me from any of you is if you actually went out and fucked guys like this poor bastard. You see, to me, if you are a Red Pill chick, you get that men are bio-programmed to want sex extremely, much more than you do. You get that so many men are suffering horribly due to… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@Blaximus Hehe, I don’t disagree (nor have I ever) that true incels should spend some time just lowering their standards a bit till they’ve got some experience. In my case I’ve just let the standards sit way too low for way too long, and I’ve grown sick of low quality, unattractive ass being my only option. There does come a point when remaining at that level becomes pretty goddamn intolerable. In my case it has come with the unfortunate reality that even with an N of almost 20 I have actually never managed to successfully get with a chick I… Read more »

Jack-Jack
Jack-Jack
5 years ago

@scribblerG and @blaximus H/T to you both. You The problem with incels (and I know a few) is that they have no fucking clue and they aim too high. Most are blue pill to the core and pathetic. ScribblerG is right. 50% of men will never reproduce. Blaximus is also right when he says this guy doesn’t have to starve. There are any number of HB3, harpy hambeasts available for this guy. I’m a prgamatist. When you’re starving, don’t turn down food. Even when it’s slightly unappealing. If this guy is anything like the incel I know (childhood friend), he… Read more »

Jack-Jack
Jack-Jack
5 years ago

@benfromtexas

“The thing I’m saying is that some men can’t be saved. I wish I could help family or friends, but some men will NEVER accept the RP.”

Mother. Fucking. Truth. Right. There.

Luxocrat
Luxocrat
5 years ago

@Jeremy

Once you pull the rip cord…and hope the chute fully deploys.

Vitriol
Vitriol
5 years ago

@SJF “I’m not advocating that women should go out and service incels, boyfriends, or husbands if they don’t want to.” I think if Eliot Roger types had some kid of outlet instead of dealing with some kind of detached, bizarre ideal of what male-female relationships are actually like, they wouldn’t go off the deep end. The guy was mentally ill to point where he though it was all moonlit nights walking hand-in-hand on the beach and cuddling. I think if guys like that had ever experienced the feeling of getting a nut off and wanting the girl to disappear and… Read more »

SD
SD
5 years ago

If we apply economic principles to the dating market instead of psychological ones, we get some interesting outcomes. Supply and demand. Pussy is in high demand. Dick isn’t. But WAIT. Guys have money,the ability to earn resources and self determination which can override his sense of reproductive instinct. Further men and women are more or less demographically balanced. On paper the market price for relationships -aka be ridiculously rich or Chris Helmsworths twin – shouldn’t be nearly as high as women demand . Yet here we are, in a day and age where you have to either be paid like… Read more »

IAS
IAS
5 years ago

: Thanks for that quote from Ironwood. This brings me back to Rollo’s previous post and how Mothers typically prioritise the kids above their Man. That pet analogy makes a lot of sense.

play don't pay
play don't pay
5 years ago

Hall of fame post right here, another ball hit right out of the park! Solid Frame and being your own mental point of origin is the foundation of improving yourself as a man. To misquote Tony montanna “All I have is my Frame and my mental point of origin, and I don’t break either for anybody”. This blog just keeps getting better, TRM, Illimitable men and an old blog called Solomon II are the best I have seen. And sometimes I think the guy that writes illimitable men just takes some of Rollos posts and ideas and just takes them… Read more »

Seaman Stain
Seaman Stain
5 years ago

After reading on the AF/BB dynamic in this and other posts a question came up. Why do all red pill articles like this and other sites always assume that if a single mommy is in the picture, or woman who remarried, her kid must have come from AF and the new herb she is dating or remarried to is the BB? From direct observations from people I know, it doesn’t always seem to play out this way. I mean that sometimes it seems that a girl goes from BB right to another BB. Or from Beta Fucks (no alphas around?)… Read more »

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@Sun: “As for the subject at hand, there’s a billboard up near where I live for one of the local motorcycle dealers. Pics of a couple new bikes with the words “Your wife called and said it’s OK!” in big letters.” Hehe! Don’t I know it….so many times clients have come to me excited as hell (I import bikes) and we get down to it, specs, accessories, pricing…then 1 week later, after ‘the Missus’ found him browsing through photos of pics of potentials I’ve sent him…Bang! “No bike for you Mr. You’re a husband now those are for boys.” Just… Read more »

lh
lh
5 years ago

@Seaman: I think most single moms happen by having a child with a man who is “alpha enough” at that time but loses frame, becomes more beta during the relationship and because of the children as discussed at Rollo’s previous posting. Next she will either go for more alpha again if there is enough money to make it without a paying beta or, if that is not the case, by going for another beta, who would besides the bux just have to be less needy then the old one.

M Simon
5 years ago

myrealitie October 1st, 2015 at 4:13 am It’s his world, and I’m living in it. That feels safe. This was not true with my prior boyfriends. I think that answers the question, “What do women want?” The LTR will shit test me up one side and down the other over my many faults. And always ends up with “…but you make me feel safe.” Together for 40+ years so far. I consider myself very lucky. My Dad was Alpha and my Mom surrendered to him. The failing of women these days is that they have zero concept of surrender. Or… Read more »

olivermaerk
5 years ago

Great post Rollo! Being aware for your frame is crucial – and keeping it up against others too. Both are problems for most people but it becomes most devestating if the man is not doing the job. If a man doesn’t control the frame, the energy and the dynamics of a relationship it becomes a mess and a choas very quickly. Women unconsciously search for the man who has the strenght to resist her and mold her into his frame, instead of her “adapting” him to her world. Women are not interested in including a man into her world, but… Read more »

Seaman Stain
Seaman Stain
5 years ago

@lh Possibly, but my question comes about because I’m seeing it play out in real life before my eyes. I know a girl who had a child with a beta simp now in a relationship with what any guy would peg as alpha. I know the guy and he’s one of the most alpha dudes I’ve come across, which is what begs the question, can he even be alpha now by definition since he decided to shack up with single mommy? Semantics for sure, but I still question this as every red pill scenario always paints the picture that the… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

kobayashii1681
October 1st, 2015 at 9:15 pm

“All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake up in the day to find it was vanity, but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.” ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom

Lawrence was one of the men responsible for the current mess in the Middle East.

lh
lh
5 years ago

@Seaman: It may be she understood the importance of alpha only after her beta-experience. It may also be she chose him willingly because he would have to pay for her being mommy and be easily thrown out otherwise. I’d like to add to you first question single-moms aren’t that unattractive for -let’s say- lesser alphas. They don’t have the body anymore, ok. But they don’t need the alpha to make her babies and pay for them. The single-mom has the baby-thing and the payment for it sorted so the alpha doesn’t have to care for it. He can take just… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

scribblerg
October 1st, 2015 at 9:37 pm

My first GF was a RP chick. She was only interested in Alphas and incipient Alphas. I was one of the plates she was spinning. I took her “how to be an Alpha” lessons to heart. When she broke up with me I was devastated. For a while. I still thank her for giving me RP 53 years ago.

I never had to go through a “I was Beta until I was 40” phase. Thank The Maker.

Roused
Roused
5 years ago

I think I found the appropriate intro to Red Pill awareness conversation with my son. We were hanging out last night and I suggested we watch the spy thriller Body of Lies. Typically something we both dig. Instead my son suggested the epic female psycho film of all time Gone Girl. Wow, what a perfect choice by him and it lead to a great deal of conversation we had never had before.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“For me recently it’s been accompanied with a dose of nihilism . . .” Nihilism offers two primary approaches to life: The first and stereotypical is depression and defeatism, for those who find the complete responsibility for their own lives too high of a burden of performance to bear. But the second, for those who respond to a challenge with, “All riiiiight, game ON!” it is a release from the burden of oppression and brings joy and the freedom to perform. Step up to the level of a 13 year old girl; don’t look for easy, drive toward possible until… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Mike
October 1st, 2015 at 9:55 pm

I ran into the unicorn in ’62. Changed my life. Only one I’ve ever met though.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@ Jeremy – You know, I used to like your commentary but over time I’ve realized you just like arguing. It’s very boring. As for your reply to me, of course there are other factors to why some men don’t reproduce but that doesn’t obviate my point – which makes your comment a distinction without much difference. As well, I did not suggest getting angry about it was the correct approach.

Keep lecturing though, it seems to give you great satisfaction.

M Simon
5 years ago

Badpainter
October 1st, 2015 at 10:44 pm

A description of the current environment – fires in front, fires to the rear, fires on all sides – is not an endorsement of that environment. None the less – reality must be dealt with as it exists.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . fires in front, fires to the rear, fires on all sides . . . ”

Those poor fires, they can’t get away from us this time.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Roused, how old is your son and how did the conversation flow in regards to Gone Girl? The gone girl narrative is a little bit off reality for the feminine. The author of Gone girl made the feminine protagonist masculine in thought, emotions and logic. She was cold, calculating and unemotional, a psychopath. It was a literary device to make the plot intriguing but not very realistic to a modern female psyche (in reality she would be more emotional and logically inept like a BPD chick). The protagonist certainly wasn’t an AWALT. So I’m curious how the movie drove the… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

The youtube guy is misappropriating red pill truths to justify something to himself. He is misusing red pill truth to justify his personal condition that only he can change. This justification serves as an excuse to himself for his condition and his perpetuation of it. Every instant of his life he has opportunity to do something different. Red pill truth should not be used in this way. This is a perversion of red pill truth. He and everyone else would be very surprised how much he can change his appearance and actually the core of himself if he took initiative… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@SD – Applying economic ideas to the sexual marketplace is quite limiting. It misses the complexity of the dynamic at work because there is no “price”. I assume you are quite invested in this line of thought as many pseudo-intellectual MGTOWs are. Take it from me – a guy who had a MGTOW Youtube channel with 22,000 views, you are on a path to personal ruin by adopting this POV. Just because some men are always going to lose doesn’t mean you should decide to be a loser. Remember, all of life is a competition. We compete for food and… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@M. Simon – Nice to see you again, brother. You are a real mensch…

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@SD – More. Most MGTOW never make the transition to becoming their own mental point of origin and are stuck in Blue Pill state shaped by a feminine imperative informed narrative. Once that crap is abandoned, a man quickly sees sex is important to him and sees it as SELF-SERVING to optimize his chances with women, not being run around by women. I suggest you go to Rollos “best of year one” collection and read all those posts to get a firm grounding in the Red Pill. It’s okay, we see many men like you here – I was once… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

“Lawrence was one of the men responsible for the current mess in the Middle East.”

True.

Responsibility, cause, and blame are all based on hindsight and fruitless attempts to reconcile. No matter what, humanity was faced with the inevitable effects of very different cultures clashing, some more evolved than others. We still experience the effects today and that experience will continue regardless. It is unavoidable. The best we can do is try to manage the situation. We can “learn from the past” but we cannot change our innate constitution.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Just a side note to my posting of the “walking the dog” scenario last night. The obvious point to me is that a man that needs to be serviced (rather than be fucked with true desire) is a pathetic man indeed. And it is obviously “negotiated desire” and only needed for baseline maintenance rather than long term masculine sustenance and inspiration. Just needed to clarify that.

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

@SJF – “just pointing out that frequently women will meet a pet’s every need willingly, but not a human man’s needs.” @Red Pill chicks – Read the above. Read what SJF said. Take to heart what escorts have to say. If you really understand that men and women are a very different sexually and care about men, your sexual behavior will change. A blowjob for your husband every morning is no different from walking the dog. And your husband will be much more grateful… Do you girls know how relaxed and happy and confident a man who starts his day… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

I don’t know if anyone has had to endure the show Scandal. Blatant open hypergamy built into the script for a couple seasons now. Last night the main character (Olivia Pope) actually fucked the Alpha and cuddled with the Beta while using him as an emotional tampon. haha, sigh.

M Simon
5 years ago

scribblerg
October 2nd, 2015 at 9:07 am

I had some pressing work. Good to be back. Good seeing a lot of new handles. And quite a few of the regulars.

M Simon
5 years ago

scribblerg October 2nd, 2015 at 9:18 am Reminds me of some research I read once. To maintain a pair bond sex every three days is the minimum. Was discussing that with the LTR. The female can make it on attraction in the beginning. Then she has to have regular sex until the long term bond forms. Then when sexual capability declines that bond insures continuity. And BTW when your sexual power starts waning I have heard that delta-9… is better than Viagra. I have had no experience with Viagra. But I can report that delta-9…. works. The LTR reports it… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Evidently the shooter is considered a member (now in great standing) of something called “beta uprising”. Discussed here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/38rb6p/what_is_a_beta_uprising/

Fred Flange, acid reporter
Fred Flange, acid reporter
5 years ago

The Omega Man video “take the black pill” is connected with this outfit, an extreme MGTOW group which in its own way is as whiny, petty, petulant and backbiting as places like Feministe: https://omegavirginrevolt.wordpress.com/ They reject not only Red Pill/Blue Pill, Game and PUA but seem to be convinced, that their failures to get nooky are down to “genetic superiority” or “inferiority” depending. But that video obviously is not the perp, he’s just another MGTOW. Now it is clear this has anything to do with the shooter guy who NBC News identifies as Chris Harper Mercer. NBC further hints he… Read more »

Fred Flange, acid reporter
Fred Flange, acid reporter
5 years ago

That should have said: now it is clear this has NOTHING to do with the shooter guy.

The Reddit thread @MSimon cites is congruent with this, apparently according to one lucid poster there “beta uprising” is more a sub-subset of truly crazy fucks on 4Chan with no real correlation to the SMP or RP/BP.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . he’s just another MGTOW.”

Omega incels are MGTOW in the same way that overweight, middle aged men who play run ‘n gun on the weekends, if the weather is nice and their wife lets them out, are special forces operators.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“beta uprising” or not. Lets just face the facts that NONE of these mass shooters are getting laid. Whether they have any red pill association or not they are directly or indirectly freaking out because they probably doubt they will ever get laid in their life.

M Simon
5 years ago

Rollo and friends,

The Feds are looking into the 4chan thread. Expect traffic to pick up along with an influx of crazies.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/oregon-shooting-did-4chan-trolls-incite-chris-harper-mercer-massacre-umpqua-community-college-1522163

and for those of you interested in clueless this thread is an unintended masterpiece.

http://jezebel.com/ucc-shooter-may-have-announced-shooting-on-4chan-last-n-1734091818

wacokid
5 years ago

@Seraph Nice. Keep that up. Argue as little as possible and try not to get mad or show that you are mad. My wife asks me why we never go out to dinner? I just tell her we never ended the evening with sex, that is why. I also tell her that if we are not having regular sex I am not going to listen to her boring ass stories. My kids are grown and out of the house so I bought a couple of ATV’s and turned them into my hobby. I spent all of my free time with… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

@scribblerg You know, I used to like your commentary but over time I’ve realized you just like arguing. It’s very boring… Yet it necessitated three replies to my last one. Scribbler, you have completely mischaracterized my original reply to you. I’m not going to insult you by pointing out where, it’s obvious. Here’s a question for you. Please entertain this question before dismissing what I was trying to tell you. If that youtube guy suddenly got laid, say for an entire weekend with Jessica Alba, would he be any different a man 6 months on? I, personally, doubt it. A… Read more »

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@M.Simon: Noted.

Jeremy
5 years ago

I should add on, Scribbler, that while I don’t find it productive to throw anger at women for incel symptoms, that I cannot pretend that I have never felt exactly as you do. I can’t pretend that because I was an incel, for a lot longer than M3 was as a matter of fact.

lh
lh
5 years ago

“If that youtube guy suddenly got laid, say for an entire weekend with Jessica Alba, would he be any different a man 6 months on? I, personally, doubt it.” Even having sex with a much lesser (but not hideous) women would change such an incel dramatically. It’s probably a big boost to self esteem, which -as we know- is key to get more pussy. The problem of these guys is how the dropped out of the normal development experience all the others had. Getting a foot in finally would help tremendously in getting back to normal. Being incel is a… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

@lh

You really think one random lay with a woman of any level of attractiveness would affect an incel w.r.t. his ability to hold frame, “play with her and play with her, etc…? Sure he’ll get a boost of confidence for a while. But he’s learned absolutely nothing about how to interact with women in a positive manner as a sexual male being.

play don't pay
play don't pay
5 years ago

@kfg regarding nihilism for me my reaction is definitely it’s “game on” most if it is retrospective in that @ 47 I’ve wasted so much time on ego investments that were never going to pay off. I’m focused on self improvement but I’m lucky to have all the basic tools required to win at this. My n count is around 150 give or take mainly 6’s and 7’s with around 15 8’s and 3 9’s, never had a 10. Never had a problem with women I didn’t fall in love with, my problem is the 4 that I have fallen… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Sun Wukong “As for the subject at hand, there’s a billboard up near where I live for one of the local motorcycle dealers. Pics of a couple new bikes with the words “Your wife called and said it’s OK!” in big letters.” My dad has a Ducati 948 Desmoquattro. In the winter it gets put on a display stand in the living room. Guests/repair people are always agape – ‘How did you get your wife to let you do that?’ It pisses my mother off; she finds it offensive to suggest that he would need to ask permission, as though… Read more »

Vitriol
Vitriol
5 years ago

@Jeremy “You really think one random lay with a woman of any level of attractiveness would affect an incel w.r.t. his ability to hold frame, “play with her and play with her, etc…? Sure he’ll get a boost of confidence for a while. But he’s learned absolutely nothing about how to interact with women in a positive manner as a sexual male being” Unless these guys are to the point of no return with mental illness, I don’t think it matters. All of that “playing with women” stuff is really just part of the social conditioning guys receive about the… Read more »

lh
lh
5 years ago

As I said the lack of these abilities would be a big danger for him. But I think it’s as with the million dollars: the first one is the most difficult one. And it get’s the more difficult the older you get. At some age any women will expect a man knows how to do it, can take on the burden of performance. If you got 0 experience at some age, you’ll really need a ZFG mindset already to get a start. That doesn’t mean the next step wouldn’t be difficult too though, it’s a long way of experience. When… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

lh
October 2nd, 2015 at 11:53 am

ZFG?

lh
lh
5 years ago

“Zero Fucks Given” – kfg? coined the shortcut and it’s great. “ZFG”-frame should become a standing term in the manosphere.

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
5 years ago

A few weeks ago I was at a restaurant where lots of college kids eat. This incel dude, SMV 4, at the tops comes in with a hard HB9. He has this look on his face like he won the lottery. I hear him telling his friends they met online. She’s playing along like they are actually on a date that she is enjoying. Perhaps she really does enjoy his company, but the difference in SMV was simply staggering. Unless she is “THE Unicorn”, their is no way she isn’t playing the guy. This female psychopath is probably going to… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
5 years ago

lh – “Even having sex with a much lesser (but not hideous) women would change such an incel dramatically….The problem of these guys is how the dropped out of the normal development experience all the others had.” Right, it could make things much worse. Much like only the strong can show mercy, only a hot chick can offer pity sex. The hot chicks status! will take less of a hit, if any, than a 5 or 6 whose status is always in flux. So you get the apprentice Omega laid and it goes how you’d expect. Then the background chatter… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

SJW mentions Biology of Desire. I’m reading it currently in E-pub format, with a dead tree version on the way. Neuroplasticity seems to contradict at least some of the premises of feminism and the Left, who are stuck in a 19th century “permanently wired brain” model – which, if it was true, would mean humans are all instinct and are not capable of learning. Neuroplasticity seems to support the Game tenet of “fake it till you make it”, among other things, and possibly offers a way to deal with some things like “gender dysphoria” as well. Plus neuroplasticity suggests some… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@scribblerg You know, I have to agree with Jeremy re: throwing incels a lay. Yes, dudes like that need to get laid, but it’s not on women to do it for them. If an incel can actually do everything it takes to get himself laid instead of receiving charity, it’s a different beast altogether. Charity might happen once. Doing it himself can happen again and again. Charity is due to somebody outside of him having pity. Doing it himself is a result of personal internal changes that will have benefits for him in every aspect of his life. Getting laid… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Play Don’t Pay: Lest I sometimes come across as some lifetime, natural badass – been there, done that. Even ended up living in my car for a time, which wouldn’t have been so bad if it weren’t a FIAT 124 Spider and coincided with the worst October blizzard in NE US history. Well, at least it had standing headroom if I didn’t mind being cold and wet. @Forge the Sky: For me it’s a Rivendell and a Redline. Not as fast as a Duke, but easier to carry up and down the stairs. With the last ex I built a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . kfg? coined the shortcut . . . ”

I suppose it’s possible.

And if I do sometimes come across as some sort of natural badass it’s because giving no fucks has been my default state since I was a small child. My mother has stories.

But like Play Don’t Pay, I’ve had bouts of oneitis which fuck me up. I had to learn the hard way to armour my heel and have been free of it for the past decade or so.

lh
lh
5 years ago

Badpainter: For the Omega’s reputation it is surely not a hit. A lay is a lay. Who cares why she did it and what she says about it? The reason why women don’t do it is exactly status though. I asked a former 10, who ruined herself by tattoos and craziness and the wall some time ago to come to the marriage of a mutual friend, who was her beta-orbiter for years and always available for all her shit to have some female friend of him there. The moment she understood my intention was to put her status as some… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Seraph and wacokid I don’t disagree with what wacokid said. But there are some crucial steps that must be built as a foundation. I’m not advocating either getting fucked by the wife (with her having desire) nor spinning plates. I’m neutral on that. But as Jeremy pointed out, you need to “play with her and play with her….” Your wife has needs too. One is for you to be the man she wants to fuck. You need to make yourself better. Whether it takes 6 months, 18 months or 24 months (a month for every year of marriage is the… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

Ok, since other people are quoting me, I must point out that I was actually quoting Rollo:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/30/secret-of-the-red-pill/

And actually, I butchered it. It’s really:
Play with her, and play with her.

Jeremy
5 years ago

@Sun Wukong & scribbler Yes, dudes like that need to get laid, but it’s not on women to do it for them…. And, in defense of scribblerg’s feelings on the matter I would agree that women (especially red pill women) CAN do something. There’s nothing that brings out the man in men more than a woman acting her natural role. That sort of behavior would go a long way to helping incels feel like they aren’t terminally lonely and doomed. Just some f-ing common courtesy, occasional eye contact and maybe respect for being an expendable man would really go a… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Anonymous Reader October 2nd, 2015 at 12:03 pm That is SJF (nice manosphere slip). ScribblerG recommended The Biology of Desire to me. All the hardwired, disease model of addiction or bad habits or blue pill Cypher-bliss is bullshit for the truly motivated masculine male. Pay attention to the fact that what can drive a male to successfully re-wire his brain is surrogate dopamine inputs different from the old bad habit ones or the addiction ones. To break out of ruts, a man needs other stimulating dopamine inputs to rework the limbic reward system. Desire to be better is the fuel… Read more »

lh
lh
5 years ago

“She needs to babble/talk and you need to listen”

I don’t think so. I thinks it’s best – if you are horny – to put your hand on her mouth, pull her cloth off and fuck her right away. It’s the best way to release her stress after all. If you aren’t horny or she is using it to get you to fuck her, tell her to shut up or at least make sure to show her how much you look down on her stupid bubbling and make fun of her. Fuck her when you are horny.

Anyone disagree?

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

Agree with @Jeremy & @Sun.

This falls in the “Give a man a fish” vs “Teach a man to fish” philosophy… Better to focus on giving him tools for life.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Lh, I would agree if the premise is she wants Dick. Your dick.

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