The Red Pill Parent

red_pill_parent

This week I’ll be exploring a new angle in the Red Pill: how parenting and family relations influence and direct the Blue Pill conditioning of a generation, and what Red Pill aware men can do to redirect this. It was encouraging to see fathers and sons together at the Man In Demand conference. I honestly wasn’t expecting this, but it was a humbling experience to see fathers and sons coming to a Red Pill awareness together. I also met with a few men who told me their sons had either turned them on to my books or that they would be required reading for their sons before they got out of their teens.

One of the greatest benefits of the conference was the inspiration and material I got from the men attending. A particular aspect of this was addressing how men might educate and help others to unplug and in that lay a wealth of observations about how these men’s upbringings had brought them to both their Blue Pill idealisms and ultimately their Red Pill awareness.

I’m beginning this series with some of these observations, but I plan to break protocol and be a bit more proscriptive in the last essay with regard to what I think may be beneficial ways to be a Red Pill parent. In The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine I included a chapter which outlined how men are primarily conditioned for lives and ego-investments in a Blue Pill idealism that ultimately prepares them for better serving the Feminine Imperative when their usefulness is necessary to fulfill women’s sexual (and really lifetime) strategies.

That chapter is only available in the book, but if you have it, it might be helpful to review it after you read this.

Reader (and MiD conference attendee) Jeremy had an excellent observation from Solipsism II:

@Capper

The only thing I take issue with is the advice, from the book that his wife read, which told her to place her husband above her children. Children come first for a mother, and they should for the father too. I’m not advocating to neglect her husband, but he needs to accept some biological facts and not be hurt because of it

What you’re repeating there is actually the first steps of a hostage crisis. That is first-wave-feminism boilerplate response. It is the first redirection in a misdirection perpetuated by women in order to sink any notion that men should have some authority on matters. Think of the children. It’s been repeated for so long, it’s a cliche…

It’s typical crab-basket behavior. Women seek power over their lives and somehow instinctively believe that the only way to achieve power is to take someone else’s power away. So they attack male authority by placing children above the man. This then becomes a stick with which to beat male authority into submission, as the woman is allowed to speak for the needs of the children. This is literally textbook subversion, and plays out on so many levels of human culture it tends to make one consider how boring humanity must look to any alien life that happens to stumble across our unremarkable corner of the universe.

When the children’s needs become the “throne” of the household, and the wife is allowed to speak for the children’s needs, then the authority of the household becomes a rather grotesque combination of immediate child needs and female manipulation. Worse still, the children are now effectively captives of the wife, because at any time she can accuse the husband of anything the law is forced to throw him in handcuffs for, and take away the kids.

What you’re repeating is the first steps in that hostage situation. Equalists will try to convince you of the logic that children come first, that children are the future, that all of that which makes them better is more important than anything else. This is bullshit.

Do you think cavemen sat around in caves all day playing and socially interacting with their babies? Do you think they had some kind of fresh-gazelle-delivery service that allowed him to interact with the children directly? Do you think the mothers were not under exactly the same survival condition, needing to forage for carrots, potatoes, berries, etc, while the men hunted and built structures? Do you think the “children” came first in any other era of humanity? If so, you are very sadly mistaken.

Children are more than capable of getting everything they need to know about how to live simply by watching their parents live a happy life together. This is how humans did things for eons, changing that order and putting the “children first” is frankly perverse and the beginning of the destruction of the family. Children are more than information sponges, they are blank minds that want desperately to be adult. Children want to understand everything that everyone around them understands, which is why a parent telling a child that you’re “disappointed” in them is more effective than a paddling. If you focus on children, you are frankly just spoiling them with attention that they will never receive in the real world. If instead you focus on yourself and your spouse, you will raise children that see you putting yourself as the MPO (as Rollo calls it), and your marriage/partnership as an important part of what you do each day.

Don’t put the children first. That’s essentially like negotiating with a terrorist, they’ll only make more demands on you until the cops storm the plane and lots of people get shot.

Your Mental Point of Origin should never waver from yourself.

American Parenting is Killing American Marriage

Of course, Ayelet Waldman’s blasphemy was not admitting that her kids were less than completely wonderful, only that she loved her husband more than them. This falls into the category of thou-shalt-have-no-other-gods-before-me. As with many religious crimes, judgment is not applied evenly across the sexes. Mothers must devote themselves to their children above anyone or anything else, but many wives would be offended if their husbands said, “You’re pretty great, but my love for you will never hold a candle to the love I have for John Junior.”

Mothers are also holy in a way that fathers are not expected to be. Mothers live in a clean, cheerful world filled with primary colors and children’s songs, and they don’t think about sex. A father could admit to desiring his wife without seeming like a distracted parent, but society is not as willing to cut Ms. Waldman that same slack. It is unseemly for a mother to enjoy pleasures that don’t involve her children.
There are doubtless benefits that come from elevating parenthood to the status of a religion, but there are obvious pitfalls as well. Parents who do not feel free to express their feelings honestly are less likely to resolve problems at home. Children who are raised to believe that they are the center of the universe have a tough time when their special status erodes as they approach adulthood. Most troubling of all, couples who live entirely child-centric lives can lose touch with one another to the point where they have nothing left to say to one another when the kids leave home.
In the 21st century, most Americans marry for love. We choose partners who we hope will be our soulmates for life. When children come along, we believe that we can press pause on the soulmate narrative, because parenthood has become our new priority and religion. We raise our children as best we can, and we know that we have succeeded if they leave us, going out into the world to find partners and have children of their own. Once our gods have left us, we try to pick up the pieces of our long neglected marriages and find new purpose. Is it surprising that divorce rates are rising fastest for new empty nesters? Perhaps it is time that we gave the parenthood religion a second thought.

I think these quotes outline the dynamic rather well; a method of control women can use to distract and defer away from Beta husbands is a simple appeal to their children’s interests as being the tantamount to their own or their husbands. If the child sits at the top of that love hierarchy and that child’s wellbeing and best interests can be defined by the mother, the father/husband is relegated to subservience to both the child and the mother.

This gets back to the preternatural Empathy myth that women, by virtue of just being a woman, has some instinctual, empathetic insight about placing that child above all else. That child becomes a failsafe and a buffer against having to entertain a real relationship with the father/husband and really consider his position in her Hypergamous estimate of him.

If that man isn’t what her Hypergamous instinct estimates him being as optimal (he’s the unfortunate Beta), then “she’s tolerating his presence for the kids’ sake.” Jeremy was responding to a comment made by Capper about an incident where a woman was being encouraged to put her husband before her kids in that love hierarchy priority. The fact that this is so unnatural for a woman that it would need to be something necessary to train a woman to speaks volumes about the facility with which women presume that their default priority ought to be for her kids.

Most men buy into this prioritization as well. It seems deductively logical that a woman would necessarily need to put her child’s attention priorities well above her husband’s. What’s counterintuitive to both parents is that it’s the health of their relationship (or lack) that defines and exemplifies the complementary gender understanding of the child. Women default to using their children as cats paws to assume primary authority of the family, and men are already preconditioned to accept this as the normative frame for the family.

As with all your relations with women, establishing a strong Frame is essential. The problem for men with even the strongest initial Frame with their wives is that they cede that Frame to their kids. Most men want the very best for their children; or there may be a Promise Keepers dynamic that guy is dealing with an makes every effort to outdo, and make up for, the sins of his father by sacrificing everything, but in so doing he loses sight of creating and maintaining a dominant Frame for not just his wife, but the state of his family.

It’s important to bear in mind that when you set the Frame of your relationship, whether it’s a first night lay or a marriage prospect, women enter your reality and your frame – the same needs to apply to any children within that relationship. Far too many fathers are afraid to embody that strong authority and expect their wives (and children) to recognize what should be his primary place in the family.

The fear is that by assuming this position they become the typical asshole father they hoped to avoid for most of their formative years. Even for men with strong masculine role models in their lives, the hesitation comes from a culture that ridicules fathers, or presumes they are potentially violent towards children. Thus the abdication of fatherly authority, in as positive a tense as possible, is abdicated before that child is even born.

Ectogenesis

At the Man in Demand conference last weekend I had a young guy ask me what my thoughts were about a man’s being interested in becoming a single parent of his own accord. I had this same question posed to me during my second interview with Christian McQueen and essentially it breaks down to a man supplying his own sperm, buying a suitable woman’s viable ovum to fertilize himself, and, I presume, hire a surrogate mother to carry that child to term. Thereupon he takes custody of that child and raises it himself as a single father.

In theory this arrangement should work out to something similar to a woman heading off the the sperm bank to (once again Hypergamously) select a suitable sperm donor and become a single parent of her own accord. It’s interesting that we have institutions and facilities like sperm banks to ensure women’s Hypergamy, but men, much less heterosexual men, must have exceptional strength of purpose and determination to do so.

Despite dealing with the very likely inability of the surrogate mother to disentangle her emotional investment in giving birth to a child she will never raise (hormones predispose women to this) a man must be very determined financially and legally to become a single father by choice. In principle I understand the sentiment of Red Pill men wanting to raise a child on their own. The idea is to do so free from the (at least direct) influence of the Feminine Imperative. However, I think this is in error.

My feelings on this are two part. First, being a complementarian, it is my belief that a child requires two healthy adult parents, male and female, with a firm, mature grasp of the importance, strengths and weaknesses of their respective gender roles (based on biological and evolutionary standards). Ideally they should exemplify and demonstrate those roles in a healthy fashion so as a boy or a girl can learn about masculinity and femininity from their respective parents’ examples.

Several generations after the sexual revolution, and after several generations of venerating feminine social primacy, we’ve arrived at a default collective belief that single mothers can perform the function of modeling and shaping masculinity in boys as well as femininity in girls equally well. The underlying social message in that is that women/mothers can be a one woman show with regard to parenting and thus men, fathers or the buffoons mainstream culture portrays them as, are superfluous to parenting – nice to have around, but not vital. This belief also finds fertile ground in the notion that men are obsolete.

Secondly, for all the equalist emphasis of Jungian gender theories about anima/animus and balancing feminine and masculine personality interests, it is evidence of an agenda to suggest that a woman is equally efficient in teaching and modeling masculine aspects to children as well as any positively masculine man. With that in mind, I think the reverse would be true for a deliberately single father – even with the best of initial intents.

Thus, I think a father might serve as a poor substitute for a woman when it comes to exemplifying a feminine ideal. The argument then of course is that, courtesy of a feminine-centric social order, women have so divorced themselves of conventional femininity that perhaps a father might teach a daughter (if not demonstrate for her) a better feminine ideal than a woman. Conventional, complementary femininity is so lost on a majority of women it certainly seems like logic for a man to teach his daughter how to recapture it.

Raising Betas

This was the trap that 3rd wave feminism fell into; the belief that they knew how best to raise a boy into their disempowered and emasculated ideal of their redefined masculinity. Teach that boy a default deference and sublimation to feminine authority, redefine it as respect, teach him to pee sitting down and share in his part of the choreplay, and well, the world is bound to be a better more cooperative place right?

So it is for these reason I think that the evolved, conventional, two-parent heterosexual model serves best for raising a child. I cannot endorse single parenthood for either sex. Parenting should be as collaborative and as complementary a partnership as is reflected in the complementary relationship between a mother and father.

It’s the height of gender-supremacism to be so arrogantly self-convinced as to deliberately choose to birth a child and attempt to raise it into the contrived ideal of what that “parent” believes the other gender’s role ought to be.

This should put the institutionalized social engineering agenda of the Feminine Imperative into stark contrast for anyone considering intentional single parenthood. Now consider that sperm banks and feminine-specific fertility institutions have been part of normalized society for over 60 years and you can see that Hypergamy has dictated the course of parenting for some time now. This is the definition of social engineering.

I’ll admit that when I got the question of single fatherhood I was a bit incredulous of the mechanics of it. Naturally it would be an expense most men couldn’t entertain. However, as promised, I did my homework on it, and found out that ectogenesis was yet another science-fiction-come-reality that feminists have already considered and have planned for:

Prominent feminists and activists, including Andrea Dworkin and Janice Raymond, have concluded that not only will women be further marginalized and oppressed by this eventuality, but they will become obsolete.

Fertility, and the ability to be the species’ reproductive engine, are virtually the only resources that women collectively control, they argue. And, although women do have other “value” in a patriarchal society–child rearing, for example–gestation remains, worldwide, the most important.  Even in the most female-denigrating cultures women are prized, if only, for their childbearing. If you take that away, then what? This technology becomes another form of violence.

Women already have the power to eliminate men and in their collective wisdom have decided to keep them. The real question now is, will men, once the artificial womb is perfected, want to keep women around?

[…]“We may find ourselves without a product of any kind with which to bargain,” she writes. “We have to ask, if that last power is taken and controlled by men, what role is envisaged for women in the new world? Will women become obsolete?”

This was a great article and it came at an auspicious time – the time we find women sweating about having their sexual market leverage with men potentially being undercut by sex-bots and/or immersive virtual sex substitutes.

420 comments

  1. “Thus the abdication of fatherly authority, in as positive a tense as possible, is abdicated before that child is even born.”

    In Western nations this is because the father legally has no enforceable authority or rights.We should be careful to avoid making the same mistake women do when they hold their social viewpoints against the realities of the world.
    A childless woman older then 35 is running a risk she can’t have kids naturally as a fact of biological reality, regardless of how empowered she may feel . So it goes for men : standing up as the leader of your household is a great way to end up in jail, especially in super-feminist environments like colleges and military bases.She says “I do what I wish in the name of the kids”. You as a Redpill man say ” No”. She phones 911. Bluff called.

    The wife doesnt even need to be the actor either. A friend of the wife , watching her husband -you- openly flout the social norm mandating males bow before females in marriage may decide you need to be taught a discipline lesson about the Actual Family Chain of Command according to the FI. In so doing shell phone the authorities on your wife’s behalf. Saw that happen in the military .

    While frame, dread, and other game techniques work in a male-female exclusive dynamic, society hands the female a grave power advantage once kids come into the picture. Frankly from a cost-benefit perspective a modern female who doesnt let herself go physically gains more by nuking her family then she does in keeping it. If she’s attractive, she’ll find another beta willing to fund her and her kid plus the state ensures the Ex still mails her a check .

    Flip the script. If the government ensured I’d get paid a cost of living allowance from my ex wife no matter what I did, I’d be boning every college girl between Cancun and the Canadian border. What’s she gonna do,divorce me?
    That’s textbook definition of an uphill battle in terms of holding frame. Some women might decide her Redpill husband’s worth hanging around for. Most will take the money and run, just like any other human being in the same situation.

  2. Nice post and something I wonder about.

    I entirely agree that the spouse should come first, above the kids. I think women tend to err on this more, but many men also.

    This is one of the main reasons I did not want to have kids prior to learning about the Red Pill (now I am even more adamant in not having them), because I’m pretty sure my spouse would make them the first priority (given how she deals with our pets already – incidentally, I’m unsure what kind of strategy can be implemented to recover frame in this type of situation).

    Funnily enough, I have a family member (a man) who has a bit of the reverse issue and says that (his own) parents should come ahead of the spouse, which I also vehemently disagree. He married very early and from the little I know, his wife had trouble with her father.
    I don’t know if that led to any regret on his part or insatisfaction with the marriage that contributed to this.

    Do you also see this play out more commonly with men or women (prioritising their own parents)? Is it interesting to consider?

    I have another curiosity because it is not the first comment you have made about men sitting down to pee – which is common in some countries in Europe. I personally don’t see the problem here if it is something the man wants to do, only if it is “forced” by the mother / spouse. It is not like men typically stand up for other biological needs.

  3. This idea of putting the children first…or anything first is referred to in pschological literature as “triangulation”—a way of manipulating the man by having something else: extra hours at work, family obligations, children etc—an excuse to put distance in the relationship.

    i’ve experienced this. I’ve also done this. Back to the main theme….Red Pill parenting is a great concept…but the father has to understand it.

    My dad was by all accounts “masculine” in many ways….but a total inconsiderate, overbearing jerk who offerered me nothing in the way of insights beyond “don’t trust women”.

    So on some level the Red Pill father has some empathy in understanding the world around them and how to raise or inspire a boy in it.

  4. “who offerered me nothing in the way of insights beyond “don’t trust women”.”

    That’s quite a lot already if you ask me. I wish my father would have given only the slightest hint in that direction. But he didn’t knew either. So while I instinctively knew I couldn’t trust my mothers pedagogical efforts on me, I had to learn it the hard way with other women.

  5. Hello I am 18 years of age and I was wondering if this one red pill truth I can let a women in on (my mom) who is dealing with a drug addicted son who is 16 (brother of mine) who has no respect for my father telling him not to set boundaries. I feel as if she keeps putting him as #1 by giving him money, and spoiling him like a brat, it’s going to destroy his life.. Is this an article worth her reading?
    Thank you

  6. The real question now is, will men, once the artificial womb is perfected, want to keep women around?

    What was it? If they didn’t have vaginas, there’d be bounties on them?

  7. @ Paul
    Answer is no. Solipsism will prevent woman from understanding any Red Pill content (blog article, book, video) and applying it to life.
    It doesn’t make sense.
    You can try to expose your father to this – but probably it’s too late (he’s too old and too Beta, to make any change).
    Take care of yourself.

  8. Rollo, I remember asking you about this on Twitter.
    Just got this in my inbox.
    I will definitely read this a post my thoughts on this later today. Glad to see this topic discussed.

  9. A married man is almost always beta. Even more so with a daughter.
    He is basically hostage to the females in his life and need to placate them and put up with their hypergamic impulses.
    That is the western world.
    Few exceptions are those with enough wealth and legal structures to protect it, and those for whom jail is just the other living quarters.
    And the odd physco who loses it and no longer cares, ending up either dead or in the second category.
    There are a very small percentage of working husbands who can walk in, be all alpha and say “if you don’t like it GTFO”.
    Or even “I decided I no longer want to work, so I’m quitting my job and staying unemployed”.
    They are mostly beasts of burden of performance. I’m yet to meet one that isn’t.
    They will all say that’s the price and the kids are worth it, but alpha they may have, but certainly not any more.
    And after all the game…it comes back down to money.

  10. A married man is almost always beta. Even more so with a daughter.

    Daughters are handled the same way as any woman. Ignore them if they misbehave and reward them intermittently.

  11. From the perspective of a married man with kids, one thing that influences this discussion is the hormones of a pregnant or nursing woman. Rollo mentions how important the menstrual cycle is in determining attraction. The hormones of a pregnant woman and the hormones of a nursing woman are equally important. Coming into my marriage in a mostly Alpha frame it was extremely interesting to watch my wife’s preferences change. I am thoroughly convinced that pregnancy and nursing have a built-in evolutionary function of driving the Alpha away, and welcoming the Beta. Both in the context of one man’s alpha or beta tendencies, or multiple men.

    Here’s some data:
    While pregnant first of all they obviously stop ovulating, so there’s that. Also, I cannot count how many conversations my wife had with me about me “Not being there for her” when the kids came. She had some sort of huge anxiety about my provisioning performance. This was strongest towards the end of the pregnancy when the “Nesting” phase kicked in. They might as well call “nesting” “beta finding.”

    The craziest thing was that, even more powerful than pregnancy hormones are the lactating hormones kick in. They are incredibly strong. While my wife was nursing our boys full time she literally had ZERO alpha interest. I’m sure some of you guys are thinking. “oh yeah, that’s because you weren’t alpha enough, blah, blah, blah”… No. I’m telling you they are designed to drive that man out of their life. Her vagina becomes drier than the Sahara. Her ability to orgasm vanishes completely and most times sex is painful. Also, did you know that when women are lactating their cycle doesn’t resume? Yeah. they can’t get pregnant. It is so fucked up. So anyway, while I agree that children need fathers I am not convinced that in our caveman past there were many fathers that stuck around, but more likely fatherhood by committee in the cave. Anyway, that’s my two cents.

  12. “Daughters are handled the same way as any woman. Ignore them if they misbehave and reward them intermittently.”

    Daughters have historically been ruled by the toughness of the men in their lives.
    This kept them out of harms way and mostly avoided them being the town slut.
    The men would approve suitors and vet marriage proposals, in some cultures negotiating a dowry with the inlaws to be for her to go to what was seen as a good home.

    It’s probably all you can do, but societal FI is no match for “ignore and intermittently reward”.
    Try ignoring her and not buying her stuff and see how it really goes.

    He may have been alpha when they met, but after married it’s gone.
    The game is them betabux.
    Obviously for the married guys and those who want be married it great having the red pill awareness, but they would be fooling themselves into thinking they gonna rule their roost.
    Not in this lifetime.

  13. “The underlying social message in that is that women/mothers can be a one woman show with regard to parenting and thus men, fathers or the buffoons mainstream culture portrays them as, are superfluous to parenting – nice to have around, but not vital.”

    When women receive this kind of conditioning on a large scale it starts to become extremely dangerous both for their own families and society as a whole. A married woman is always a few hours of unhappiness and a box of wine away from taking the kids away from a husband and running off (where she will receive legal, financial, and social support for her actions). Also, you have entire generations of young women who think it’s okay to get knocked up by their weed dealer because they’re going to produce the next Harvard valedictorian on their own, when all statistics show they’re just raising the next generation of Burger King employees and criminals due to the economic disadvantages of being raised by a single parent who is going to be waiting tables her entire life because she doesn’t have the time or money for things like vocational training or college due to becoming a parent at such a young age.

  14. I expect that many will object to the notion that the man be the head of a household and take precedence over the children, but in actuality this scenario is most likely to benefit the family and the children. As Rollo mentioned, children have an undeveloped sense of right and wrong. Only a male authority figure can provide an unwavering guidebook. Women place a higher priority on social cohesion than enforcing right and wrong. Naturally, they will be less likely to discipline them and more likely to allow their kids to get away with more. There’s been a great deal of research showing that children of single mothers are much more likely to be addicted to drugs, become criminals, and in general have worse life outcomes. Placing a father as the head of the household benefits everyone, especially the children. Perhaps an effective slogan would be: “Think of the children, respect your husbands.”

    An aspect of malehood that feminists will exploit, but never acknowledge, is our desire to uphold our promises and fulfill our expected duties. Whenever a close friend or family member is in need of help, I move mountains to do all I can to show my loyalty and usefulness. If a close friend criticizes me, I spend a great deal of time reflecting on it and analyze if I’m not living up to my expectations. If I wrong a friend or relative, I’m wracked with guilt until the problem is corrected. The evolutionary environment placed males into small hunting bands that required skill, loyalty, and a sense of duty in order for them to succeed and survive. We still possess those traits, and our sex is the one naturally suited towards benevolent leadership. This is why, in placing men as the head of the family, most men will not abuse their power. our inherent duty to perform make us focused on the mission of ensuring our posterity will flourish.

    The problem arises when social checks on hypergamy are removed, and women fulfill their natural urges to have children with men of dark triad personalities. These men lack the sense of duty and empathy that most men possess, and are less likely to invest in their children. Modern society has removed all incentives for men to invest in their posterity, and the incidence of single motherhood has exploded. In saner times, society placed controls on our destructive tendencies in order for families and communities to benefit. While we’re placed in a difficult situation currently, try to remember that this isn’t about women vs. men. The world that we will inherit should feminism continue to make progress is one of broken families, rampant crime, and civilizational decline. This is about restoring our societies to one that avoids unnecessary suffering and allows civilization to flourish. This is about doing what IS good instead of what FEELS good. We will be faced with hatred and condemnation, but it is the right thing to do, and it is our duty. The work that Rollo and others in this corner of the internet do will put us on a healthier course, benefiting both men and women.

  15. This was a great article and it came at an auspicious time – the time we find women sweating about having their sexual market leverage with men potentially being undercut by sex-bots and/or immersive virtual sex substitutes.

    This is why I scoff at the scoffers of sex-bots and VR sex.

    1) Men ALWAYS find ways tools and methods to solve problems. It’s what we do, goddamit!

    2) Sex is a VERY important need for men.

    3) Woman are getting increasingly bad at supplying it.

    4) Technology is progressing exponentially.

    Add it all together, and what do you got?

    This shit is going to be in the really, real category sooner than you think.

    The self replicating man mentioned above is just another harbinger of that. Women are being a real pain in the ass when it comes to reproduction? Well, similar to a fast food worker demanding $15 an hour, they will be replaced technology.

    Enjoy unemployment.

    This reminds me of a heated argument 2 years ago among a group of friends, men vs. their wives/girlfriends. Somehow we got onto the subject of men being better creators, especially with technology. When it turned to men being able to bypass women when it came to having children via artificial wombs, and you should have seen how animated all the women got.

    I was not seeing it entirely for what it was then, but looking back it is clear that the notion hit something DEEP in all their hindbrains, something which threatened them.

    What I love are these quotes and what they admit:

    “Fertility, and the ability to be the species’ reproductive engine, are virtually the only resources that women collectively control…gestation remains, worldwide, the most important. Even in the most female-denigrating cultures women are prized, if only, for their childbearing. If you take that away, then what?

    […]“We may find ourselves without a product of any kind with which to bargain,” she writes. “We have to ask, if that last power is taken”…

    Does this not admit that women do not bring much to the table besides their sexuality?

    Now, *I* think they can bring more, but these feminists seem to think they don’t. It’s the vagina, and what comes out of it. Period.

    So whose anti-woman again?

    This technology becomes another form of violence.

    Don’t like something in the social realm that does not favor women?

    Call it ‘violence’.

  16. Had to redpill dad on why mom denied sex even after 30 years of hard work and providing for the family. Maybe there are a lot of young guys out there educating their dads instead. Would share more of the story if that’s true.

  17. NARWALT: I am struggling a bit with feeling an obligation to spread Red Pill knowledge to people I care about, but I’m unsure how to do it in a way that 1. won’t feed back into my wife and 2. won’t make the people I tell about it ostracise me for it. As far as I’m concerned, the selfish, safe option is not to do anything, but it makes me uncomfortable.

  18. The fear is that by assuming this position they become the typical asshole father they hoped to avoid for most of their formative years. Even for men with strong masculine role models in their lives, the hesitation comes from a culture that ridicules fathers, or presumes they are potentially violent towards children. Thus the abdication of fatherly authority, in as positive a tense as possible, is abdicated before that child is even born.

    As a somewhat related story…

    This weekend there was a late-season regatta down at the marina. I usually show up early and rig all the lines on the boat. The rigging dock we use there is right next to a stacked-stone breakwater that overlooks the Pacific Ocean. This breakwater is a favorite spot among locals to climb out onto to either fish, or just enjoy the view with waves crashing up to you (this is technically illegal, but enforcement is lax until they’re breaking other laws, cops don’t like to chase people on irregularly spaced rocks) The stones it’s built out of are the size of office desks, but with the irregular spacing you often get, there are large gaps between rocks in some cases.

    On Saturday there was a father down there, who was taking his two sons down to the rocks. The first, older son, seemed to have no trouble and followed dad out on his hands and knees, rock scrambling out as best he could to where dad was. The other one of the kids was small, probably no older than 4-5. He saw his father walk down the breakwater a ways, and let himself get consumed by fear. He then just stood there at the first rock, looked at his dad far away, put his hands out towards his dad and cried.

    Dad didn’t budge. He simply kept telling his son to come to him. This impass lasted for nearly 10 minutes. At one point another passing man (with a rod/reel) stopped to ask the little boy if he needed help. Dad still didn’t budge, and as graciously as he could, waved off the other guy, and thanked him for the offer. The dad offered, “He’s just being a wuss today, he’s done this a hundred times.”

    Sure enough, 2-3 minutes later, the little kid started crawling his way out to dad.

    I honestly found myself feeling like that dad was an asshole at first. In fact the entire time he was yelling back at his kid to just come to him, my irritation with the dad was growing. Then as soon as the kid started crawling out the rocks (which he could easily be swallowed up in at his size), I realized my mistake. I was the prick for assuming the role of mother in my head and presuming that his frame with his kid was any business of mine.

    Apparently I’ve still got a lot to de-program myself of.

  19. Kids are a mixed bag.

    On one hand, parenting is the easiest thing in the world for me.

    But on the other hand, I am constantly fighting to keep them in my frame versus what they are taught by their teachers, the media, their mom, and other females they are around.

    Disney and all that bullshit.

    If anything, having daughters has greatly improved my interactions with women. Amused mastery comes easy with my (all) kids, so I have that as a “natural example” of how I should be with chicks too.

    The hardest part I think is the fact that my daughters have very little feminine influence in their lives. When Rollo says that only one parent raising kids is not balanced, he is right. My kids have their mom, but she lacks feminine qualities. I have had to fight the “tom boy” influences from her.

    In reality, I am having to teach both my kids and my wife how to be women. How to be feminine…

    How in the hell is the masculine SOB that I am supposed to do that???

    Holding them in my frame and having expectations of them being feminine is one thing, but THEY JUST DON”T KNOW HOW.

    It’s much the same as how I was raised with very little masculine influence. My parents actively avoided men that were “alpha” when I was being raised.

    Now I find the opposite with my daughters, no female influence. It’s tough for them to get that when their mom is not a good example.

  20. “Now I find the opposite with my daughters, no female influence. ”

    I should of said “no feminine influence”

  21. @Rollo Tommasi
    Going to do an iron man with my dad this week. Beta to Alpha the mindset is what I was looking to learn. Compliments

  22. On the flip side, it should be noted that not just any man can be a head of the household. He has to first be a man-that is an increasingly rare trait nowadays.I was raised in a father-mother household, but looking back what it really was in fact were two women playing coparent.
    There was my mother, and there was my betabux,emasculated dad . Mom ran the show, and it took a stint in the military for me to understand fully what being a masculine man entailed. I came home on leave in the curious position of being the family Alpha over my own stepdad. If a man doesnt know how to be a man, he can’t begin to lead anything.

  23. Jeremy – Years ago in college I was in a class with an older student, an Army vet, who was married and had a son. We were hanging around in the library one day and he had his 2 year old with him. The kid was toddling around in a carpeted area where we could see him, so the vet and I were talking about the class. The kid tripped over his own feet and plopped onto the floor, then pushed his head up and looked over at us.

    The vet said clearly to the boy, “So you’re all right? Just get back up” and the kid grinned & did so. Then the vet turned to me and said, “If his mother was here, she’d have rushed over there to pick him up and that would be his cue to start crying. Then after a while he’d get tired of that and want to get back down. It’s easier this way, he gets more time on the loose”.

    Sometimes male behaviour looks like random assholery to the uneducated. Letting a little child fall down and not rushing to help him, how shocking! Leaving a preschooler behind on the rocks and not carrying him, how callous! Except that this is how men train children, through various examples, trial & error, etc.

    One of the greatest crimes of feminism has been, and still is, depriving children of the presence of men.

  24. @Caveclown
    “It’s much the same as how I was raised with very little masculine influence. My parents actively avoided men that were “alpha” when I was being raised.”

    Same here

    @Jeremy
    That’s a hell of a good story. I saw my self doing that a lot growing up all under a blue pill pretext.

  25. Feminism, unbridled hypergamy, and FI social dominance all facilitated by birth control pills and leisure time for females made possible by technological creations (invented by men) provide women opportunity to destroy their natural relationship with man. Hence man seeks to satisfy his needs that were once satisfied by women with other alternatives.

    Man seeks numerous alternatives (prostitution, masturbation, porn, phone sex, virtual sex, sex dolls, sex bots, etc.) not because he is an over sexed crazed psychotic but because he desires an alternative to the modern woman.

  26. I could write ten guest posts on this topic.

    Dalrock cites a British newspaper article on Danish “singlemors”, as in turkey-baster sperm donor moms. Prominent in the story was the revived meme that, while dads are “nice” to have around, they aren’t needed and moms can do fine without them. Besides it’s the menz fault for not manning up and stepping up to give the wimminz their well-deserved sprogs when they turn 36 and see the Wall a-coming gee I wonder how that happened?

    The revival of this bad idea is sad to see, because due to the work of Dr. Judith Wallerstein among others, there seemed to be a growing social consensus that dads were not only necessary, but that children in two-parent families had distinct advantages over single-parent-by-choice and “unhaaapy” divorced single moms. Yeah, there’s some single dads, but statistically insignificant.

    It would seem David Blankenhorn’s “The Unnecessary Father” from the 1990’s could use a re-publish and update. While his proposed solutions are blinkered, and taking into account his significant right-wing slant, he chronicled accurately the cultural hive mind notion that single-parenting was the “new” family form that should be celebrated, accepted and evangelized. Whilst defending the old two-parent model was sexamalist, misogyinismist, and patriamalarkey. Oh yeah also Dead White European Cultural Hegemony.

    If you were a newly-minted father with a mild case of post-partum depression (yes men get it too), you could read this stuff and want to jump out a window. Other sociology books chronicled this as well. Pour me a Bushmills and I’ll produce a reading list you can find at your local 99 cent book beat-up table.

    But OK, grudgingly there was some concession that being a Dad was okey dokey. But what kind of Dad? The parenting websites and books all had the same message: to be a good dad, be another mom. Be nurturing and vulnerable, be your kid’s friend. Don’t be like YOUR dad, who must have been evil, well that’s what they all were, right? We are seeing now how this advice turned out: is your college kid hiding in a cookie-and-teddy-bear safe space to keep from being triggered by micro-aggressions infringing his/her/xe/xer personal freedom like soiled budgies?

    There are a handful of decent screeds that posit the heresy: A Dad Is Not A Mom. And should not be. Ever. And a good mom should know this, and back him up parentally as she would expect him to back her up. Which means hey dad: play rough with your kids. Let them try, and do, on their own. When they act up or need discipline, bark. In the worst cases, show them the instruments of torture as if they are to be used, so to speak. In other words: show them how male anger is supposed to work. It’s scary and intense, but dissipates quickly once the message gets through, with encouragement and forgiveness if they obey. As opposed to years of helpless please-be-my-friend cajoling, pleading, heavy sighs and eye-rolling. I see this all the time.

    But too many fathers defer to the mom as the “natural” parent, thinking they should, because you know toxic masculinity. Or mom just takes over, pushes dad away, because this is her baby and she’ll do the raising thank you very much because dad you’ll just mess it up or not do things my way. And we listen: if we don’t have to do something and we’re not wanted then we won’t. Which creates even more resentment on mom’s part because dad won’t step up and take over even though she told him not to. Just part of the crash-and-burn Beta supplication cycle. I see this all the time as well.

    Now I am off to a literature course on The Bell Jar. Which entails me sticking my head in an oven, I think.

  27. Rollo, a simpler way to put this is: women tend to “marry” their children and “divorce” their husbands starting at childbirth. Adding more children doesn’t change that, and may accentuate it.

    I’ve seen it happen in various familes, and given the fem-centric world it would take a strong frame for a man to deal with that. Not to mention lactation, as Andy described. I am certain it can be done, but it should be planned out and a man should expect some pushback / testing in strange ways. Again, a frame of iron…

    I’ll go further than Andy and point out that since we know estrogen has deep effects on the brain (not just volume, but structures and connection) there surely are actual rewirings that go on during pregnancy. Therefore even a woman who is not all that girly, who is rather tomboyish, can be expected to become more typically female during and after pregnancy. Again, adding more children may well accentuate this.

    Add the biological facts above to the societal expectation of the child-centered household as “normal” and there’s a lot of pressure on women to “marry” their children, pressure that will take work on both his part and her part to resist. It’s possibly more difficult for her because she’s living inside the estrogen fog, perhaps somewhat like being on a low-level drug trip 24 / 7.

    Of course a man can be as complementarian as he wants, if his wife is determined to follow the equalitarian script then there will be conflict. So it would be best to root out all the blank-slate feminist crap before getting her pregnant. Easy to say…

  28. It is also important to note that heterosexual men do not generally support homosexuality, transgenderism, gay marriage, homosexual parenting, etc. Many more heterosexual women support these atypical behaviors than heterosexual men. A large majority of heterosexual single and divorced women support theae tenants and although married women voice less support, they do support them more than their husbands. These tenants of atypical behavior are placed by the FI like a proverbial chip on the shoulder of “social justice” to threaten the patriarchy and natural masculine sexuality are intended to serve FI interests but they simultaneously destroy natural female sexuality. As the FI adds these tenants to the cauldron of feminine supremacy to steep a victorious concoction she ignorantly brews a poison for her own consumption.

  29. IAS – short form answer: work on your frame. Work on your frame some more. Then work on your frame.

    I am finding that delivering truths about women from a strong frame doesn’t cause all that much blowback. I’m not ostracised, not even by the aging 2nd stage feminists at work, because delivering truth in a cocky-funny way with a ZFG frame behind it tickles their hindbrain.

    You should not worry about such things getting back to your wife, if your frame is strong enough you’ll already be showing those things to her anyway. So when someone tells her it will be a big “so what?”.

    Develop a strong frame, and maintain that frame. Frame is sort of like a proper stance in any fighting art, you can’t get anywhere without it.

  30. What’s a good age to full on introduce your sons to the red pill? I’ve shared lots of nuggets of red pill truth with my sons (who are under 10) but at what point I should plop them down at the computer, go to CH or TRM and just tell them to start reading?

  31. Pingback: On the Rock
  32. @Fred Flange

    But OK, grudgingly there was some concession that being a Dad was okey dokey. But what kind of Dad? The parenting websites and books all had the same message: to be a good dad, be another mom. Be nurturing and vulnerable, be your kid’s friend. Don’t be like YOUR dad, who must have been evil, well that’s what they all were, right? We are seeing now how this advice turned out…

    This paragraph is resurrecting memories of this kind of crap. I actually do recall quite a bit of social narrative when I was growing up about the toxicity of traditional fatherhood and attempts to redefine how fathers should relate to sons.

  33. Excellent introspection, @Jeremy.

    As much as I like to think I’ve internalized the red-pill, I also have moments where I find the those FI-fueled ‘constructs’ stubbornly implanted in the crevices of my brain and realize I still have a way to go. But it’s all good… each time, one more construct/behavior that doesn’t serve ME dies horribly in the purge.

  34. But on the other hand, I am constantly fighting to keep them in my frame versus what they are taught by their teachers, the media, their mom, and other females they are around.

    @Clown

    Just curious regarding daughters. Do you tell them that they aren’t special just because they are female? I think that’s really a big part of the problem. Most women are brought up to believe that even if they’re fat, ugly, dumb and manly they’re still SO special! And someone will recognize that some day! I feel like boys on the other hand were brought up to know we aren’t special, and we need to perform.

  35. I like you much better when you are being prescriptive, rather than descriptive, Tomassi. You are quite right, putting the kids first does quickly become a hostage situation. It is not only bad for the marriage, it hands children more power than they can handle and produces these insecure special snowflakes that believe the whole world revolves around them. The best thing parents can do is to strengthen their own relationship.

  36. Andy,

    Covert, not overt.

    I encourage compassion. “Your sister doesn’t feel well,go ask how she is”

    I point out feminine style of dress. “Look at that girl, she is dressed like a girl should”

    “That makeup looks very good on you”
    “Cross your legs, hands in your lap”

    I discourage masculine. Kids say they are going to smoke cigars like dad. “Cigars are for boys, not girls”

    Didn’t win a competition? No “good job! you tried!” it’s “how can you win the next one?”

    “Girls should have long hair”

    “Girls look best in a dress”

    I struggle with the “everyone is special” part yet. Hard to counter act that without putting them down. I am exceptionally strict though, and I think that helps. I point out their mistakes and force them to admit to and fix it.

    But, even though I am strict, they are daddy’s girls for sure. They respond to the dominance. Kids are naturals at this.

  37. No IB, what you like is convenient truths that align with your ego-investments. It’s the uncomfortable objective truths that offend your sensibilities that you delete and censor from your blog and your reality.

  38. @Is This Thing On?

    I love these “where are all the men?” articles. One major statistic they cited in the article seems to defeat their premise.

    From the article:

    “Among non-college-educated singles ages 22 to 29, there are 9.4 million men and 7.1 million women. And if you look at the women in that age group who are non-college-educated, something like 30 percent of the women are married but only 22 percent of the men are married.”

    2.3 million extra men seems like a pretty large gender imbalance doesn’t it? If you look at the actual census data, the U.S. is basically a huge sausagefest in the 40s and under category. American women just aren’t interested in the men they meet on a day to day basis because their expectations are too high.

    “So is my generation headed for an absolute trainwreck of divorce and loneliness? It sounds like a perfect storm.

    It does sound like a perfect storm. However, we are not voles or fish, we have a moral compass that animals do not. So my belief, my hope, is that once you shine a light on this stuff the behavior will change. I kind of believe that once everybody knows that guys are acting like pigs or that women are better off expanding their dating pool, the behavior will change.”

    You see that? “Guys are acting like pigs” because the one guy these girls actually want to fuck is some douche who already has 20 other girls ready to fuck him, so his behavior is indicative of the entire male gender. I guess the payback in all of this is the fact that women actually care about this “loneliness” crap and are statistically less happy than men now because of it. Guys generally couldn’t care less about those kinds of “feelz” issues as long as they have access to occasional pussy so they don’t go insane.

  39. “No IB, what you like is convenient truths that align with your ego-investments…”

    Totally untrue, Tomassi. I have numerous blog posts filled with criticisms. As to objective truth, it’s a big mistake for you to believe that you possess it, since your own biases and ego investments are so transparent, you seem to be wearing them on your sleeve.

  40. 1) Half-truth used to infer something that is untrue.
    2) Accusation without evidence.
    3) Fallacy of division.
    4) Attacking the speaker, not the argument.

    …Two comments in, still didn’t recognize that it wasn’t Rollo being prescriptive so much as quoting the prescriptiveness of others.

  41. I struggle with the “everyone is special” part yet. Hard to counter act that without putting them down.

    Whenever I come up against a situation when I have to react with a choice of “reality vs. coddling.” I seem to be almost 100% reality. If I had a girl it might be different. I don’t know. I also might be overreacting because of my upbringing. At this point in my life I’m just going with what feels right. As of right now it’s mostly harsh reality.

  42. Narwalt, I had to red pill my dad too. I even “coached” him a little bit. He told me about 6 months ago how my mom is now more sexual with him.

    I personally feel the heterosexual marriage is best for raising successful children. Stats show when you take a man out of the home, the child goes to Hell in a hand basket!
    I’m just at odds with a situation I’m in. I got a woman who wants to have my kid, and she even had a lawyer print up a custody contract with no child support requirements on my end. She wants my Alpha traits and wants to gender select IVF a son. It sounds too good to be true, and I’m holding the agreement in my hands right now. It would be perfect for me, because I get an heir with no responsibilities other than being a “co-parent”, but I don’t know if the courts would over rule the contract. She knows I’ll never commit to a woman. Why marry when I can get what I want from women without securing commitment?

    I need some opinions or advice. What would you guys do?

    Oh yeah, Rollo there was an article from the Holistic Game blog that mentioned your plate theory and how it’s part of rape culture. It just came out yesterday. I wanted to give you a heads up in case some WACKO SJWs come after you.

    Here’s the link below.

    http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2015/09/26/look-behind-pickup-artists-theory-and-rape-culture-waking-life/72826230/

  43. When you decide an open forum is a better policy than censoring and deleting those who disagree with you so you can feel better about your pathetic existence and patsy husband then you might have a leg to stand on.

    You are a proven fraud IB, and I will call you out on that every time you post here to get off on the indignation your homeschooler commenters don’t supply you with.

    Nothing you post means shit because you are too cowardly to have the strengths or weaknesses of your assertions debated in an open forum. Until you’re willing to do that you’re just singing to yourself in the shower.

  44. I’m just at odds with a situation I’m in. I got a woman who wants to have my kid, and she even had a lawyer print up a custody contract with no child support requirements on my end. She wants my Alpha traits and wants to gender select IVF a son.

    If I were you I’d scrutinize that custody thing. You’ll probably fall in love with the kid. Also, this is just a personal opinion of mine, but I’d insist on a natural insemination instead of IVF. Nature has a way to filter out low quality sperm for a reason.

  45. “Sometimes male behaviour looks like random assholery to the uneducated. Letting a little child fall down and not rushing to help him, how shocking! Leaving a preschooler behind on the rocks and not carrying him, how callous! Except that this is how men train children, through various examples, trial & error, etc.

    It seems cruel because too many people have forgotten (or they were not taught) that the world is cruel. We have built up layers of insulation, what one Blogger calls the Design Margin, against that cruelty, but one must never forget those things may fail:

    “Modern urban civilization is in many respects like a ship of artificial order floating in an ocean of natural entropy. That order is enforced by the availability of energy. Once the energy that keeps entropy from entering its hull fails then disorder begins to flood like water through its arteries and channels like an inrushing flood. The virtual construct that is the 21st century mega-city begins to sink; not just gradually but quickly, terribly and catastrophically.

    But unlike the ocean, which constantly reminds seafarers of its omnipresent menace, entropy does not manifest itself so clearly. It is scarcely visible when things ‘work’. We only notice it when things stop working. Therefore modern civilized man often forgets the surrounding entropy exists.

    He also forgets what keeps it at bay.

    Energy, not only of the electrical kind, but of the sort that motivates human society, keeps things going. Energy is constantly pumping chaos out of the hull of civilization. Once it is exhausted then the ship goes dark and begins to settle into the deeps. “

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2012/10/29/the-design-margin/

    When there is nothing else, humans have to rely on their own energy, and it comes in the form of will, intellect and muscle. When all else fails, you need to be able to fall back on those. Perhaps that in the end is what it means to be a man; to develop oneself to be able to handle things when the lights go out.

    That father is trying to show his son he is capable of doing something even if it frightens him, and perhaps even better, that the fear is unnecessary. It does not pay in the end to be conservative and play it safe in a world which is not always safe, and is certainly NOT easy.

    We are victims of our own success, creating a population in which far too many think life is a breeze, always has been, always will be.

    Teaching kids to be self-reliant, to not be coddled and protected 24/7 teaches them invaluable lessons for when life sneaks up and sucker punches them.

  46. It’s time to activate the InsanityBytes translator!

    BEEP – BEEP – BOOP!

    “Eww, harsh Tomassi, you sound angry. Hit a nerve, did I?

    TRANSLATION:

    Was I a bad girl, Rollo? Was I naughty? Did I make you mad? Ooooh…maybe I need a spanking or something…will you spank me, Rollo? My husband treats me too nice. I need your rough hand, Rollo…Please!

  47. “In the absence of indignation, women will actively manufacture it for themselves.”

    Hmm, I should rather like to be indignant, but the lost boys just don’t do it for me. Truth be told, it is Tomassi who sounds indignant. A shame too, because I rather enjoyed this post and agreed with it. I hope that does not cause him to reconsider his views.

  48. Ben,

    A judge can and will void a custody agreement or any other legal contract if he deems it in the “best interest of the child”

    So if she ever disputes your agreement, you have a very expensive chance at winning, but no guarantee.

    Have a lawyer review it at the least. A male lawyer.

    No fucking way I would do it if it were me.

  49. IB your praise or your criticism mean nothing when you are a proven fraud with no interest in any meaningful discourse. Go back to your echo chamber, they’ll be happy to kiss your fake ass there.

  50. sigh…. just more, “I know you are but what am I?” childish level of discourse from someone who would make more sense if she talked with her lower lips.

  51. Bites
    You are quite right, putting the kids first does quickly become a hostage situation. It is bad for the marriage because it hands WOMEN more power than they can handle…

    FIFY, dearie.

  52. She likes to ride on Dalrock and my jock, but she’s too chickenshit to allow any dissenting comments on her blog.

    And to any of her commenters who find their way over here to actually read my posts, you’re just as much a fraud as she is if you participate in her closed little world.

  53. CaveClown, I agree. I’m very cautious with it. Courts screw dudes over all the time. I’m 99% most likely not to do it. It sounds to good to be true. She’s always had a thing for me and the possibility of a judge voiding something scares me way too much.

  54. That father is trying to show his son he is capable of doing something even if it frightens him, and perhaps even better, that the fear is unnecessary. It does not pay in the end to be conservative and play it safe in a world which is not always safe, and is certainly NOT easy.

    I’m reading Anonymous Conservative’s e-book on r/K selection, and frankly some of it I’m not buying. But the section on the amygdala is spot on the money. The amygdala is the brain part that would send someone up a tree if a fragment of orange in the brush looked like “lion”. The amygdala is totally irrational and that’s why it can fire so fast – 30 milliseconds or so vs. 250 milliseconds at best for rational thought. A quarter of a second just to start to decide something is not fast enough when that lion is in the brush.

    The amygdala can be programmed by a single event if it is traumatic enough, or programmed by a series of events that are less traumatic. We can train ourselves to be fearful, we can also train ourselves to be pretty close to fearless.

    It’s trite to quote from Dune but Frank Herbert was onto something when he wrote Fear is the mind-killer….

    In my case, the Army vet was letting his 2 year old son learn how to move; people that age are close to the ground so when they fall it ain’t that far, and falling down a few times is how they learn not to fall down.

    In the case of the 5 year old too fearful to crawl over rocks, the father was indeed teaching him to not be fearful when his own ability is sufficient to see him through. Big rocks? So what!

    Again one of the crimes of feminism, especially the 2nd wave hags like Bites, was to sever the connection between men and children. This has resulted in women who insist on being lousy imitations of men, and men who frankly don’t know how to be manly.

    Once again proving that women don’t really know what they want.

  55. @Anon Reader:
    https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/21/kill-the-beta-2/

    Remember in high school, in drivers ed class, when you were taught to turn into a skid rather than turn with the skid? When we’re driving and we find ourselves in a skid our natural impulse is to slam on the the breaks and/or, worse still, to turn with the skid. Everything in our self-preservation instincts tells us to do this, but all it does is aggravate an already precarious situation. However, when we’re taught, and we practice, not hitting the brakes and not turning into the skid, often enough we make this our default reaction and we find that the car rights itself, we avoid disaster and continue safely on down the road.

    You have to unlearn the old behaviors and condition new ones in order to right your course. This takes practice and repetition – even in the face of conditions that you would impulsively think would need to be reacted to otherwise.There is no substitute for perseverance.

  56. Rollo on Bites
    She likes to ride on Dalrock and my jock, but she’s too chickenshit to allow any dissenting comments on her blog.

    Well, of course, Rollo. Consensus, i.e. the queen bee keeps all the others in line – that’s more important to women than truth, as we both know. Or maybe it’s more accurate to say “Truth is whatever the queen bee says it is”, perhaps.

    We’ve seen this pattern over and over again. $usan Wal$h did it, Sunshine Bloody Mary did it, Bites does it – it’s almost as if women simply cannot handle too much unpleasant reality. They can’t deal with the full truth of their own nature, and so there’s always some restrictions on what they will allow anyone to say around them. Usually starting with tone-policing, women will almost always censor opinions that make them uncomfortable.

    And the same is true of most religous women – how many times has Alt started a blog, run a blog, gotten in a catfight on her blog, then taken it down? At least 3 that I can recall. There are some exceptions – Elspeth being the obvious one – but for the most part women can’t handle the raw truths as we can.

    In a way it is a complement to both you and Dalrock that Bites keeps circling around, sniffing at your ankles, because we know what that means. It’s just the combination of Female Imperative inborn in her plus that obnoxious 2nd stage “I Am Woman” feminist training that conflicts in her head, leading to the Jekyl/Hyde act.

    Of course she suppresses dissent. She’s a woman, even post menopausal.
    And the proof of what I say is in her beta orbiters, who constantly curry favor and get headpats in return. Independent men wouldn’t put up with her crap very long, but betas and gammas will do so forever.

  57. Beautiful post Rollo. This post like, many of your previous ones, is quite insightful. Thank you for the work you do here.

    I have to ask though, why do you bother engaging commenters you think are trolling? Why not just ignore them and their negativity and focus on doing what you do? Cheers

  58. I’ve just read ‘Our Kids: The American Dream in Crisis’ by Robert D. Putnam. It’s easy to get in a public library in paper and e-book format. This sociological study says the rich educated classes in modern America have pretty much reversed the trend of family destruction of the 60s and 70s and gone neo-traditional: the ratio of divorced to married people is only 14 to 100, and single motherhood rate for white college graduates is at 2%. Poor uneducated classes live in “kaleidoscopic families” with multiple exes and stepchildren or don’t marry at all. If the parents are poor but stay together they often push the children up socially, but poverty AND a chaotic family life lock the children in the social bottom almost always. So, maybe if you’re educated you don’t have to panic about divorce: just tell your wife it’s what those people in bad neighborhoods do. Class snobbery is the strongest motivator. Has anyone else read it and what do you think?

  59. @benfromtexas

    “too good to be true…”

    my general understanding is that the child support ‘belongs’ to the kid, so mom can’t contract it away…oh, by the way, if you send me $100, you can have Rollo’s car…lol…

  60. @Thelien

    So, maybe if you’re educated you don’t have to panic about divorce: just tell your wife it’s what those people in bad neighborhoods do. Class snobbery is the strongest motivator. Has anyone else read it and what do you think?

    I think that unfortunately there’s a lot of women who will flock right to anything any one of those stuck-up, divorced-x-times blond women from the faux-rich areas. These are hags who will poison women against wisdom that might make them more happy than the cosmetically-enhanced spinsters like themselves.

    That said, most of the strong and traditional family structures that I know come from far more money than my family ever had. I have friends who have family who used to own some of the California Channel Islands as livestock ranches. Those people are generally very well adjusted, at least at a higher rate than most of the people I meet.

  61. This is the latest on Kansas going for child custody payments even though the lesbian couple signed a deal with the sperm donor:

    http://m.cjonline.com/news/2015-07-17/kansas-supreme-court-refuses-remove-judge-mattivi-sperm-donation-case#gsc.tab=0

    You’ll need a lawyer to figure everything out, since it depends on various laws and rulings

    On other note my wife doesn’t believe boys should be cuddled. Fall down, get back up. Resilience.

    Now IB will show us by example the opposite.

  62. Redlight, thanks for the link. To be truthful, I’m too scared to do it because there is no justice for men in the courts. Period.

  63. Rollo, thank you for hosting us. The courage to allow us all to remain unfettered is noted. That said, my ability to appreciate the conversation here is often enhanced when I skip references and responses to a certain poster. I understand there are tradeoffs to ignoring that which stirs us poorly, but I see a gift for us all in the opportunity to improve our Amused Mastery.

  64. Thelien, I have not read Putnam’s book but the thesis is pretty common. Maybe Novaseeker will comment, but in his absence I’ll point out that the Upper Middle Class (UMC) has a very low divorce rate for a few reasons. One is that people in that class have enough future-time orientation to be able to resist short term gains that lead to long term losses. So while women in the UMC are just as hypergamic as any other women, and in fact they have a problem with their hypergamy because a doctor or corporate lawyer automatically screens out all middle class men, they also have enough future time orientation to realize how screwed they’d be by a frivorce. Plus a lot of UMC families are not reallly wealthy so much as they are high income, and that high income requires two professionals; divorce would drop the average UMC woman down to a MC lifestyle, and women don’t like that.

    The other thing that Novaseeker or maybe Cail Corishev would point out is a bit more insidious: the UMC live more like the middle class of 50 years ago, but the will not, not, not teach anyone below them in economic class how to do that. Probably because “being judgemental” is now a major faux pas in the UMC world. So even though the average UMC woman wouldn’t want her son in a gay marriage, she’s been taught not to be judgemental if he does. If she can tolerate that, she surely is in no posiiton to teach her MC or blue collar sisters “How To Stay Married No Matter What”.

    So we have family formation in the UMC about the same as 50 years ago, while the MC frays and the blue collar people’s world falls apart at the seams. Because “nonjudgementalism”, and of course….Feminism…. demands it.

  65. @Rollo,

    Regarding “Kill the Beta”…

    It also a post I remember well, and I have reread it several of times, including just now. It was one of the those things that made a lot of sense in the abstract, but as you wrote in the piece, it is a little harder to get on the practical side, ie., what do I DO?

    I think I have slowly figured it out, not without some help here from fellow posters. Thinking it about it just now, and thinking about how my mindset has slowly changed over the last couple of years, it popped into my head.

    I matter.

    Seems simple, maybe over simplistic, but it entails a hell of a lot.

    I MATTER.

    My thoughts matter, my opinions matter, my wants and needs matter, my desires matter, my dreams matter.

    My LIFE matters. How I wish to live that life matters.

    And as a fully sovereign adult, that for all I know only has one life, I have the right to get out of it as much as I possibly can.

    That last statement is not a selfish one, one that says, ‘Fuck everyone else! I am getting mine!’

    It is simply stating that I have the right to lead my life as it fulfills me. Others wants and needs are taken into consideration, but none of them are of a higher priority than mine. If my needs conflict with yours, then we work it out OR part ways because I have the right and the audacity to strike out and find something else which gives me that fulfillment.

    As an adult, as a man, I will take responsibility for my choices, but they will be MINE to make. I will not accept people pushing me into roles, and I will not take on obligations which are a blank check for my time, affection, resources, etc. I will walk away from any situation that no longer suits me. You are welcome to try to convince me to stay by addressing my concerns.

    If I fuck up, and I will, because everyone does, it will be a learning experience, and not and endless source of regret. Regret is about living in the past.

    Fuck that.

    I have a thousand things going on around me in the present. I will go find out what some of those things are and experience them, find what suits and intrigues me.

    Killing the Beta entails waking up to the fact that self-interest does NOT equate with selfishness.

    Killing the Beta entails tossing out everyone else’s expectations and finding your own.

    Killing the Beta means to stop saying “I need to” and saying “I want to.”

    Kiiling the Beta means understanding you are not a cog in a machine, but an individual with free will; not a actor playing a role, but an adventurer exploring existence.

    Killing the Beta means stop asking “what do others want?” and learning to say “I expect.” This goes double in regards to women.

    Killing the Beta means being able to accept the idea that you are capable of a hell of a lot, and the biggest impediment is yourself.

    Killing the Beta means understanding that passivity is for women.

    Killing the Beta means embracing the power you can and should wield as a man, and accepting the responsibility that entails. It is a weighty crown, and you deserve goddamn respect for wearing it.

  66. Lol… Nice! I think that might have been the only time I’ve left a comment on this blog and to “make the front page” for such a short statement is flattering.

    I realize that you don’t have limitless time to flesh out the opinions of your commenters, but if you had asked me a few questions, you might not have proceeded to make some of the assumptions you did regarding what I meant. Even so, I’m honored to be used as fodder for this blog and your response was good reading, as usual.

    Much love…

  67. @IB –

    “I like you much better when you are being prescriptive, rather than descriptive, Tomassi. You are quite right, putting the kids first does quickly become a hostage situation. It is not only bad for the marriage, it hands children more power than they can handle and produces these insecure special snowflakes that believe the whole world revolves around them. The best thing parents can do is to strengthen their own relationship.”

    “I like you much better when you are being prescriptive, rather than descriptive,”

    Anyone objectively analyzing this stupidity realizes immediately the self contradictory nature of her statement. She claims she likes Rollo’s prescriptions but not his descriptions. Yet his prescriptions are based upon what he describes. She makes no sense because how could she possibly agree with the solutions if she doesn’t agree with the problem identification?

    “Tomassi. You are quite right, putting the kids first does quickly become a hostage situation.”

    Here she directly agrees with his description of the problem and directly contradicts herself….apparently she DOES like his description of the problem because she goes on to describe her extended perspective of it…

    “It is not only bad for the marriage, it hands children more power than they can handle and produces these insecure special snowflakes that believe the whole world revolves around them.”

    Is she perhaps one of these snowflakes she refers to? She would know better than anyone as she is undoubtedly most intimately familiar with what is to be one.

    “The best thing parents can do is to strengthen their own relationship.”

    How would any man in his right mind start (much less attempt to strengthen) a relationship with such an insecure special snowflake that believes the whole world revolves around her as IB inarguably demonstrates she is?

  68. @ITTO

    Re: That article

    Oh dear lawdy. Where to begin…

    The interviewer is a 23 year old female with the typical shit attitude about men, particularly the very college-educated peers the article specifically whines about not being able to find. Her questions are more telling than the simpering mangina author’s apologies, excuses, and pandering to women. These stand out in particular to me:

    Is there an issue for American women where the more educated you are, the smaller your dating pool becomes? It feels like the smart you are as a woman, the smaller your dating pool is, because women seem less likely to date men less intelligent than themselves.

    The more anything generally viewed as positive a woman is, the smaller she chooses to make her pool. A woman will not under any circumstances date what she perceives as down. This is the definition of hypergamy, yet she still dances around it with “It feels like”. The author tries to say men won’t do it either, but I can tell you as a guy with college levels of education and extremely high intelligence, I’d marry a non-college-educated dime with good long-term partner potential and solid submission to my frame in a heartbeat.

    Female interviewer admits hypergamy, whines about results. Male author panders and consoles by claiming “men do it too”. Ugh.

    The author talks extensively about the collection of guys in the tech community. College educated, highly successful guys living in very desirable parts of the country that have also become sausagefests. These are exactly the solution the article purports to be searching for, however, the response from the interviewer is telling:

    I’m making a quantitative argument not a qualitative argument. I don’t know if these [tech] guys are good guys or whether—I don’t know if they can carry on a conversation or not.

    They can’t.

    Whoa whoa WHOA, she just blew the most successful group of guys with college educations OUT OF THE WATER as a possibility by instantly moving to disqualify them. Why? Nerds. She’s 23 and they’re nerds. No nerds. They’re supposed to be successful AND hot. Not “or”; and. Period.

    Meanwhile, author finishes his reply by acknowledging SMV imbalance between the interviewer and her nerdy male peers:

    I’m just telling you by the numbers I think they’re less likely to act like dickheads because they don’t have the same kind of leverage.

    They ain’t swimmin in chicks by virtue of A) living in a sausagefest and B) being nerds that aren’t popular with the ladies. They won’t be assholes, but that’s not what she’s looking for. She’s looking for the asshole that has the money and will commit, not the nerd with the same.

    Is there any silver lining to this for women?
    There has been some reaction from women who found [the book] life-affirming, because they realize it’s not them. They had been blaming themselves for their lack of success [in the dating world], and this was kind of assuring in some way.

    “Whew! Being 30 pounds overweight with a bad attitude and waiting till I’m in my 30s where I’ll rush the guy in to having kids before we get to really take our time getting to know each other has nothing to do with it! It’s all the fault of men that just aren’t good enough for me. I feel so much better!”

    How do you comfort your single friends—”Oh, you’ll find someone”—when statistically, many of them won’t unless they lower their standards?
    See, I hate the “lower your standards thing,” because I’m always thinking about my friend [who married a janitor] and I don’t view [their marriage] as “lowering your standards.” I view this as making a different kind of choice.

    “How can I help a friend overcome her hypergamy?”

    “Just lie to it.”

    So is my generation headed for an absolute trainwreck of divorce and loneliness? It sounds like a perfect storm.
    It does sound like a perfect storm. However, we are not voles or fish, we have a moral compass that animals do not. So my belief, my hope, is that once you shine a light on this stuff the behavior will change. I kind of believe that once everybody knows that guys are acting like pigs or that women are better off expanding their dating pool, the behavior will change.

    “Boy, hypergamy is really gonna fuck us over, isn’t it?”

    “Oh women will totally take responsibility for hypergamy and more men will be ashamed of their masculinity and act like betas. That’ll solve it.”

    Wooo yeah! That’s totally how you fix it. Totally!

  69. @Dragonfly, Rollo

    I’d concur. It was 5th grade when they pulled us in to Sex Ed at my school and laid out “Boys use love to get sex (deceitful, evil little boys), girls sex to get love (they’re so innocent)”. It was painted as boys evil, girls good right then and there.

    If they’d stated it as “Boys use resources to get sex, girls use sex to get resources”, it would have been possible to paint nobody as an angel. We’re all human, we all have selfish motivations. It’s OK. Too bad it took me almost 30 years to find out the truth.

  70. I remember in 3rd grade I was pulled into the principals office for acting out. (beat the shit out of some kid) This was the 80’s, in a very liberal part of the US.

    They called my mother in to speak with the school counselor. The counselor told my mother that I was acting out because my mother worked full time and that “little boys need a mom at home and not a daycare raising them”

    I’ve never heard anything more truthful from a woman in all the years since. I didn’t realize how significant that conversation was until recently.

    My mother walked out of the counselor’s office after going off on her about women’s rights and her “out-dated” way of thinking. I have never seen her so angry.

    She took it all the way to the school board, and I’m quite certain she got this woman fired. Either way, I never saw her again because she got me transferred to a school that was less “evil” towards women.

    My kids’ school has the same grading system dragonfly describes but without the purple. I never thought of it as a problem, but I should have.

    I was more worried about the dyke looking teachers and the openly gay principal.

  71. @Dragonfly

    “Rollo, we must have been on the same brain-wave in posting. I’d be curious to see what on earth you make of this http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2015/09/28/think-pink-boys/

    Well….

    I am very certain I would have been in the red often.

    I wonder how many boys vs. girls have been prescribed Methylphenidate (Ritalin) and other drugs designed to control “aggressive” behavior. The reigning social convention not only forces boys into social psychological distortions (a form of mass psychological abuse), it also forces poison into boys bodies attempting to mutate them. This coincides with transgenderism, the promotion of homosexuality, gay marriage, etc. all of which have the intended primary net effect of dumbing down and stifling masculinity. Masculinity itself is more directly and adversely affected by these distortions than femininity is as gay men and gay women are both more feminine than masculine. Both are missing a significant element of masculinity yet remain significantly feminine. Regardless of anyone’s pontification concerning the causes or excuses, the obvious net effect in both groups is absence of masculinity.

    @Rollo –

    It actually begins BEFORE Kindergarten. My wife teaches preschool at a “conservative” church. You would not believe the teacher training and policies, centered around this regarding that age group. They are always having “problems” with the boys. It is almost always the boys who are diagnosed with “autism”….currently seems to be the most popular diagnosis for boys being boys. It is always the boys who are bumping up against and crossing the ropes and barriers put in place by the establishment. She and her coworkers incessantly complain about this boy or that boy and discusses this or that boy, what to do with him, whose class one of these problem boys will attend next, etc. If there is a problem child, 90% of the time it is a boy.

    Its all about controlling boys because they are sooo bad….

  72. Pink is the color for boys because they are not yet mature and pink is a weaker red. Red is the color of men who have killed the beta. Men who deliberately make themselves a nail sticking up and declare to all that see them that if you intend to hammer them down you’d better bring your best game and hope that it’s anywhere near good enough. Red is the color of the fiercest Keltic warriors. Red is the color of Viking longship sails. Red is the color of Sparta.

    The man in red is a dangerous man.

    So my objection is to the fact that red, the color of men, is the color of a severe problem to be solved.

  73. “….she’s too chickenshit to allow any dissenting comments on her blog…”

    I seriously doubt I’m the one clucking like a chicken here, Tomassi, nor am I the one with the obvious ego investments. I agree with many things you say…..and that ticks you off the most, doesn’t it?

  74. “Is there an issue for American women where the more educated you are, the smaller your dating pool becomes? It feels like the smarter you are as a woman, the smaller your dating pool is, because women seem less likely to date men less intelligent than themselves.”

    “…more educated…”

    “…feels like the smarter you are…”

    Hmmm…

    When did getting educated guarantee higher intelligence?

    When did feeling like you are smarter actually make you smarter?

    When did less formal education guarantee less intelligence?

    Is no one allowed to think without formal education?

    Is anyone really allowed to think (other than Rollo and some others) ?

    Does feeeeeeling like you are smart because you are “educated” guarantee that other less “educated” people are stupid compared to you or do your feelings only guarantee that you feel a certain way?

  75. “…nor am I the one with the obvious ego investments…”

    IB battles her own projected ego investments. That is the reason she comments here. Rollo’s work and our comments threaten her ego investments. She is not battling them. She is battling herself as she uses them as an opponent to fight within herself. She is her own enigma. Her involvement here is duplicitous and self contradictory as she pretends to agree while she is simultaneously offended.

  76. “Rollo’s work and our comments threaten her ego investments.”

    LOL! Now that’s just funny. You guys actually live down to my expectations. If you want to surprise me, try acting like a human.

  77. @NBTM

    When did getting educated guarantee higher intelligence?

    We all know the implications came from the oooooold 19th century concept of “University”. You didn’t go there unless you were brilliant or rich. These days though? Like all other phases of schooling, it largely just shows that you comply with authority. Important to an empowered woman, lest you break the illusion of her power.

    But yes, the thought had occurred to me as well. While I have a college level education and work in a field that supposedly requires it, I have no degree of any kind. I would fall in that “non-college-educated” demographic, yet outside of my mother I can count on no hands the number of women I’ve met and/or associated with on a regular basis that are as smart or smarter than me. That’s what it’s like to be in the upper .02% of the population intelligence-wise.

    If raw intelligence were that important, I’d be swimming in top-shelf pussy. Intelligence is only important to a woman if it’s attached to a hot guy and/or brought him wealth and status.

    Modern women: insisting on meeting their betters who regard them as equals.

  78. When my son, 27, and I were talking after he ended his engagement, I asked him how the sex was. He told me it was easier to jackoff to porn than to try to get it from her. I was actually proud of myself that he and I are that close.

  79. @IB –

    “You guys actually live down to my expectations. If you want to surprise me, try acting like a human”

    To her, we are inhuman and below her expectations and Rollo annoys and pisses her off. She consistently disagrees with our observations and comments. Yet she is still here. She returns again and again.

    She certainly isn’t coming back here because she likes what she reads here or agrees with us or likes us.

    So why is she coming back again and again?

    Why?

    Indignation deprivation perhaps?

  80. “She certainly isn’t coming back here because she likes what she reads here or agrees with us or likes us.”

    Not true. I like a few of you and I agree with Tomassi on many things, this post for example. I am neither pissed off nor indignant.

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