The Red Pill Parent

red_pill_parent

This week I’ll be exploring a new angle in the Red Pill: how parenting and family relations influence and direct the Blue Pill conditioning of a generation, and what Red Pill aware men can do to redirect this. It was encouraging to see fathers and sons together at the Man In Demand conference. I honestly wasn’t expecting this, but it was a humbling experience to see fathers and sons coming to a Red Pill awareness together. I also met with a few men who told me their sons had either turned them on to my books or that they would be required reading for their sons before they got out of their teens.

One of the greatest benefits of the conference was the inspiration and material I got from the men attending. A particular aspect of this was addressing how men might educate and help others to unplug and in that lay a wealth of observations about how these men’s upbringings had brought them to both their Blue Pill idealisms and ultimately their Red Pill awareness.

I’m beginning this series with some of these observations, but I plan to break protocol and be a bit more proscriptive in the last essay with regard to what I think may be beneficial ways to be a Red Pill parent. In The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine I included a chapter which outlined how men are primarily conditioned for lives and ego-investments in a Blue Pill idealism that ultimately prepares them for better serving the Feminine Imperative when their usefulness is necessary to fulfill women’s sexual (and really lifetime) strategies.

That chapter is only available in the book, but if you have it, it might be helpful to review it after you read this.

Reader (and MiD conference attendee) Jeremy had an excellent observation from Solipsism II:

@Capper

The only thing I take issue with is the advice, from the book that his wife read, which told her to place her husband above her children. Children come first for a mother, and they should for the father too. I’m not advocating to neglect her husband, but he needs to accept some biological facts and not be hurt because of it

What you’re repeating there is actually the first steps of a hostage crisis. That is first-wave-feminism boilerplate response. It is the first redirection in a misdirection perpetuated by women in order to sink any notion that men should have some authority on matters. Think of the children. It’s been repeated for so long, it’s a cliche…

It’s typical crab-basket behavior. Women seek power over their lives and somehow instinctively believe that the only way to achieve power is to take someone else’s power away. So they attack male authority by placing children above the man. This then becomes a stick with which to beat male authority into submission, as the woman is allowed to speak for the needs of the children. This is literally textbook subversion, and plays out on so many levels of human culture it tends to make one consider how boring humanity must look to any alien life that happens to stumble across our unremarkable corner of the universe.

When the children’s needs become the “throne” of the household, and the wife is allowed to speak for the children’s needs, then the authority of the household becomes a rather grotesque combination of immediate child needs and female manipulation. Worse still, the children are now effectively captives of the wife, because at any time she can accuse the husband of anything the law is forced to throw him in handcuffs for, and take away the kids.

What you’re repeating is the first steps in that hostage situation. Equalists will try to convince you of the logic that children come first, that children are the future, that all of that which makes them better is more important than anything else. This is bullshit.

Do you think cavemen sat around in caves all day playing and socially interacting with their babies? Do you think they had some kind of fresh-gazelle-delivery service that allowed him to interact with the children directly? Do you think the mothers were not under exactly the same survival condition, needing to forage for carrots, potatoes, berries, etc, while the men hunted and built structures? Do you think the “children” came first in any other era of humanity? If so, you are very sadly mistaken.

Children are more than capable of getting everything they need to know about how to live simply by watching their parents live a happy life together. This is how humans did things for eons, changing that order and putting the “children first” is frankly perverse and the beginning of the destruction of the family. Children are more than information sponges, they are blank minds that want desperately to be adult. Children want to understand everything that everyone around them understands, which is why a parent telling a child that you’re “disappointed” in them is more effective than a paddling. If you focus on children, you are frankly just spoiling them with attention that they will never receive in the real world. If instead you focus on yourself and your spouse, you will raise children that see you putting yourself as the MPO (as Rollo calls it), and your marriage/partnership as an important part of what you do each day.

Don’t put the children first. That’s essentially like negotiating with a terrorist, they’ll only make more demands on you until the cops storm the plane and lots of people get shot.

Your Mental Point of Origin should never waver from yourself.

American Parenting is Killing American Marriage

Of course, Ayelet Waldman’s blasphemy was not admitting that her kids were less than completely wonderful, only that she loved her husband more than them. This falls into the category of thou-shalt-have-no-other-gods-before-me. As with many religious crimes, judgment is not applied evenly across the sexes. Mothers must devote themselves to their children above anyone or anything else, but many wives would be offended if their husbands said, “You’re pretty great, but my love for you will never hold a candle to the love I have for John Junior.”

Mothers are also holy in a way that fathers are not expected to be. Mothers live in a clean, cheerful world filled with primary colors and children’s songs, and they don’t think about sex. A father could admit to desiring his wife without seeming like a distracted parent, but society is not as willing to cut Ms. Waldman that same slack. It is unseemly for a mother to enjoy pleasures that don’t involve her children.
There are doubtless benefits that come from elevating parenthood to the status of a religion, but there are obvious pitfalls as well. Parents who do not feel free to express their feelings honestly are less likely to resolve problems at home. Children who are raised to believe that they are the center of the universe have a tough time when their special status erodes as they approach adulthood. Most troubling of all, couples who live entirely child-centric lives can lose touch with one another to the point where they have nothing left to say to one another when the kids leave home.
In the 21st century, most Americans marry for love. We choose partners who we hope will be our soulmates for life. When children come along, we believe that we can press pause on the soulmate narrative, because parenthood has become our new priority and religion. We raise our children as best we can, and we know that we have succeeded if they leave us, going out into the world to find partners and have children of their own. Once our gods have left us, we try to pick up the pieces of our long neglected marriages and find new purpose. Is it surprising that divorce rates are rising fastest for new empty nesters? Perhaps it is time that we gave the parenthood religion a second thought.

I think these quotes outline the dynamic rather well; a method of control women can use to distract and defer away from Beta husbands is a simple appeal to their children’s interests as being the tantamount to their own or their husbands. If the child sits at the top of that love hierarchy and that child’s wellbeing and best interests can be defined by the mother, the father/husband is relegated to subservience to both the child and the mother.

This gets back to the preternatural Empathy myth that women, by virtue of just being a woman, has some instinctual, empathetic insight about placing that child above all else. That child becomes a failsafe and a buffer against having to entertain a real relationship with the father/husband and really consider his position in her Hypergamous estimate of him.

If that man isn’t what her Hypergamous instinct estimates him being as optimal (he’s the unfortunate Beta), then “she’s tolerating his presence for the kids’ sake.” Jeremy was responding to a comment made by Capper about an incident where a woman was being encouraged to put her husband before her kids in that love hierarchy priority. The fact that this is so unnatural for a woman that it would need to be something necessary to train a woman to speaks volumes about the facility with which women presume that their default priority ought to be for her kids.

Most men buy into this prioritization as well. It seems deductively logical that a woman would necessarily need to put her child’s attention priorities well above her husband’s. What’s counterintuitive to both parents is that it’s the health of their relationship (or lack) that defines and exemplifies the complementary gender understanding of the child. Women default to using their children as cats paws to assume primary authority of the family, and men are already preconditioned to accept this as the normative frame for the family.

As with all your relations with women, establishing a strong Frame is essential. The problem for men with even the strongest initial Frame with their wives is that they cede that Frame to their kids. Most men want the very best for their children; or there may be a Promise Keepers dynamic that guy is dealing with an makes every effort to outdo, and make up for, the sins of his father by sacrificing everything, but in so doing he loses sight of creating and maintaining a dominant Frame for not just his wife, but the state of his family.

It’s important to bear in mind that when you set the Frame of your relationship, whether it’s a first night lay or a marriage prospect, women enter your reality and your frame – the same needs to apply to any children within that relationship. Far too many fathers are afraid to embody that strong authority and expect their wives (and children) to recognize what should be his primary place in the family.

The fear is that by assuming this position they become the typical asshole father they hoped to avoid for most of their formative years. Even for men with strong masculine role models in their lives, the hesitation comes from a culture that ridicules fathers, or presumes they are potentially violent towards children. Thus the abdication of fatherly authority, in as positive a tense as possible, is abdicated before that child is even born.

Ectogenesis

At the Man in Demand conference last weekend I had a young guy ask me what my thoughts were about a man’s being interested in becoming a single parent of his own accord. I had this same question posed to me during my second interview with Christian McQueen and essentially it breaks down to a man supplying his own sperm, buying a suitable woman’s viable ovum to fertilize himself, and, I presume, hire a surrogate mother to carry that child to term. Thereupon he takes custody of that child and raises it himself as a single father.

In theory this arrangement should work out to something similar to a woman heading off the the sperm bank to (once again Hypergamously) select a suitable sperm donor and become a single parent of her own accord. It’s interesting that we have institutions and facilities like sperm banks to ensure women’s Hypergamy, but men, much less heterosexual men, must have exceptional strength of purpose and determination to do so.

Despite dealing with the very likely inability of the surrogate mother to disentangle her emotional investment in giving birth to a child she will never raise (hormones predispose women to this) a man must be very determined financially and legally to become a single father by choice. In principle I understand the sentiment of Red Pill men wanting to raise a child on their own. The idea is to do so free from the (at least direct) influence of the Feminine Imperative. However, I think this is in error.

My feelings on this are two part. First, being a complementarian, it is my belief that a child requires two healthy adult parents, male and female, with a firm, mature grasp of the importance, strengths and weaknesses of their respective gender roles (based on biological and evolutionary standards). Ideally they should exemplify and demonstrate those roles in a healthy fashion so as a boy or a girl can learn about masculinity and femininity from their respective parents’ examples.

Several generations after the sexual revolution, and after several generations of venerating feminine social primacy, we’ve arrived at a default collective belief that single mothers can perform the function of modeling and shaping masculinity in boys as well as femininity in girls equally well. The underlying social message in that is that women/mothers can be a one woman show with regard to parenting and thus men, fathers or the buffoons mainstream culture portrays them as, are superfluous to parenting – nice to have around, but not vital. This belief also finds fertile ground in the notion that men are obsolete.

Secondly, for all the equalist emphasis of Jungian gender theories about anima/animus and balancing feminine and masculine personality interests, it is evidence of an agenda to suggest that a woman is equally efficient in teaching and modeling masculine aspects to children as well as any positively masculine man. With that in mind, I think the reverse would be true for a deliberately single father – even with the best of initial intents.

Thus, I think a father might serve as a poor substitute for a woman when it comes to exemplifying a feminine ideal. The argument then of course is that, courtesy of a feminine-centric social order, women have so divorced themselves of conventional femininity that perhaps a father might teach a daughter (if not demonstrate for her) a better feminine ideal than a woman. Conventional, complementary femininity is so lost on a majority of women it certainly seems like logic for a man to teach his daughter how to recapture it.

Raising Betas

This was the trap that 3rd wave feminism fell into; the belief that they knew how best to raise a boy into their disempowered and emasculated ideal of their redefined masculinity. Teach that boy a default deference and sublimation to feminine authority, redefine it as respect, teach him to pee sitting down and share in his part of the choreplay, and well, the world is bound to be a better more cooperative place right?

So it is for these reason I think that the evolved, conventional, two-parent heterosexual model serves best for raising a child. I cannot endorse single parenthood for either sex. Parenting should be as collaborative and as complementary a partnership as is reflected in the complementary relationship between a mother and father.

It’s the height of gender-supremacism to be so arrogantly self-convinced as to deliberately choose to birth a child and attempt to raise it into the contrived ideal of what that “parent” believes the other gender’s role ought to be.

This should put the institutionalized social engineering agenda of the Feminine Imperative into stark contrast for anyone considering intentional single parenthood. Now consider that sperm banks and feminine-specific fertility institutions have been part of normalized society for over 60 years and you can see that Hypergamy has dictated the course of parenting for some time now. This is the definition of social engineering.

I’ll admit that when I got the question of single fatherhood I was a bit incredulous of the mechanics of it. Naturally it would be an expense most men couldn’t entertain. However, as promised, I did my homework on it, and found out that ectogenesis was yet another science-fiction-come-reality that feminists have already considered and have planned for:

Prominent feminists and activists, including Andrea Dworkin and Janice Raymond, have concluded that not only will women be further marginalized and oppressed by this eventuality, but they will become obsolete.

Fertility, and the ability to be the species’ reproductive engine, are virtually the only resources that women collectively control, they argue. And, although women do have other “value” in a patriarchal society–child rearing, for example–gestation remains, worldwide, the most important.  Even in the most female-denigrating cultures women are prized, if only, for their childbearing. If you take that away, then what? This technology becomes another form of violence.

Women already have the power to eliminate men and in their collective wisdom have decided to keep them. The real question now is, will men, once the artificial womb is perfected, want to keep women around?

[…]“We may find ourselves without a product of any kind with which to bargain,” she writes. “We have to ask, if that last power is taken and controlled by men, what role is envisaged for women in the new world? Will women become obsolete?”

This was a great article and it came at an auspicious time – the time we find women sweating about having their sexual market leverage with men potentially being undercut by sex-bots and/or immersive virtual sex substitutes.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

421 comments on “The Red Pill Parent

  1. OT:

    What’s the best way to handle a girl you’ve next’d if you’re forced into a social situation where she’s there? Ignore? Engage?

    1. Indifference.

      It kind of comes back to the Rejection and Revenge post:
      http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/15/rejection-revenge/

      Too many guys think a NEXT (even a tactical NEXT) should be some kind of punishment for a girl who’s just not that responsive. It’s not, it’s pragmatism, plain and simple; particularly for a guy in Striver’s situation.

      Red Pill, 49 y.o., he’s aware of the social trends women kvetch on and on about. He knows the stats with women complaining about a lack of “good guys” with maturity and status, yet this woman is playing high school Game with him?

      NEXT. Striver doesn’t have time to entertain a woman trapped in an adolescent social skill set. Nor should he have to with the glaringly observable, available options to a man in his position.

      Divorced at 49, Red Pill aware, he knows the score; and it should be an insult to him that women cry to their girlfriends and online about wanting a “great guy” in his demographic, yet they still think playing high school Game will work on him (even at 49) because men are just that stupid.

      NEXT. No post-Wall woman should EVER have the temerity to play that shit. She should thank whatever god she worships he’s entertaining her at all.

  2. Zero tolerance. You’ve wasted far too much time, and there are far too many women complaining about the lack of available ‘good men, to entertain anything less than 100% attention and interest.

    The old me would not understand this. I would have pursued it to the bitter end.

    The new me?

    Fucking A…

    Feeling good today. Better than good. I have continued to drop weight and it seems like I hit some zone or something. I feel lighter but beyond that, there is a certain spring in my step. Reminds me a little of 2 years ago when I hit some sort of stride, one that unfortunately unraveled for me. Trying to figure out why exactly my mood is so up today.

    I am certainly to see the gut disappear and I look better, so there is that, but there seems to be something else.

    Is it a sense of accomplishment because I applied myself to a goal and stuck with it?

    I have taken the advice of some of the people here and tried being present more, and while I certainly need to practice it more, I am wondering if it already made a difference.

    I realize now that my life was the complete OPPOSITE of living in the present. My father was a guy always talking about his regrets, things he should have done, and while I could realize before that was a waste of time, I never realized how much I goddamn did it.

    My head was either stuck in the past, or looking toward the future. I was either regretting things I had done, or had not done, or living off past good memories, and then would imagine a future in various ways which was better. Hell, part of the reason I think I have such a great imagination is because I used it to create an alternate reality as it were.

    I was rarely, RARELY, in the present, and that in large part screwed me up and out of opportunities.

    Anyone ever read Eckhart Tolle? He talks about sometimes getting the feeling of really being in your body, and that was a sign you were making progress. That is kind of how I felt walking to work today. Is that why the mood’s so improved? Am I pulling my head out of the past and present and feeling the difference?

    Whatever it is, I fucking like it…

  3. @Rollo,

    NEXT. Striver doesn’t have time to entertain a woman trapped in an adolescent social skill set.

    You REALLY should do a post explaining what an adolescent social skill set is and how it differs from an adult one. Every time you use that phrase I cringe because I sense I have one but don’t know exactly what the hell it is. I can’t be the only one.

  4. Thanks Rollo, that’s a helpful re-read. I only ask because it seems this weekend that’s exactly what I’ll be dealing with. Fortunately there should be lots of other women around as well.

  5. @Seraph: “That is kind of how I felt walking to work today. Is that why the mood’s so improved?”

    Movement is serenity. -Sir Stirling Moss

  6. The Red Pill lens can be a real depressing education for guys when they see the socialization shit going on around them, but that lens is also a very efficient gauge of a woman’s disposition and her mindset.

    Half the reason I wrote Preventive Medicine was to help men avoid exactly this type of shit from women. Striver has options he’s probably not even aware of just because of his situation.

    Pussy is just pussy until a woman makes herself something more.

    As I said, Striver has wasted enough of himself invested in an unappreciative ex-wife for God knows how long. He shouldn’t tolerate even the hint of a lack of respect or appreciation from any new woman.

    @Striver, read this:
    http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/09/the-adolescent-social-skill-set/

  7. The amusing thing is Lolo Jones (see The Adolescent Social Skill Set link) was recently back in the news. Still a virgin she tweeted:

    “Well when Serena breaks it off with Drake I’m here for you boo. My season is already in the crapper so no one will blame you.”

    (Serena the tennis star, Drake music, Lolo in 2014 had made a comment about Drake and all Rihanna’s ex-boyfriends)

    People replied pointing out that “you know that Drake likes sex”

      1. @Sun Wukong
        My uncle in France built a custom bike that out ran a Ferrari in At a Red-light.

        @Serapth
        Your learning man my disassociation in relationships is dramatically changing with digestion of heathy Habits and constantly breaking away from my comfort zone.

        One thing that really helps is Nature being alone in Nature and focusing on all parts of myself heals a lot of of the habit of leaving the moment.

        If I where in a. Relationship I wouldn’t be in the moment if sex occurred. That’s how horrible of a place I was in.

        It’s changing slowly.

        Getting hit by a guy on a field while your dreaming of a naked women is also a good way to remind yourself to stay in the game.

        Happened once

        “You REALLY should do a post explaining what an adolescent social skill set is and how it differs from an adult one. Every time you use that phrase I cringe because I sense I have one but don’t know exactly what the hell it is. I can’t be the only one.”

        I second that.

        My social skills aren’t effective and where beyond functional they lacked any real meaning and where mainly used to cope. Which took away the self reliance of discomfort and turned into a buffer.

        @Rollo Tommasi
        http://www.complex.com/sports/2015/09/lolo-jones-reminds-drake-shes-single

        http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jx_VzVDEB8

  8. Best quote from that post that Rollo linked that I had previously never read:

    Simply put there are experiences and opportunities for personal growth that only embracing our sexuality can offer. One point I regularly make with respect to AFCs is that at some stage in their maturation they became retarded. I use “retarded” in the clinical, not the derogatory sense here; their social maturation becomes held up by their lack of access to experiences that would help them develop new cognitive models. Most of the time this is due to an inability to see past old conventions they learned in adolescence which halts them from passing to the next level so to speak. The problem with saving oneself for marriage becomes apparent in this. I’m not saying there is no merit in it, just that most people subscribing to it blindly do so without understanding the limitations inherent in it.

    Yep, I’m retarded.

  9. I have taken the advice of some of the people here and tried being present more, and while I certainly need to practice it more, I am wondering if it already made a difference.

    @Seraph

    I’m totally in the same place. I used to hate happy people, but I think I’m becoming one of them. I just don’t give a shit what people think anymore. Most of them are simply beneath me. Sad but true.

  10. Yeah, I’m retarded as well.

    Question on interest levels:

    (Talking about my soon to be ex wife.)

    If I am confused about her interest level, that means her interest level is low or non-existent, right?

    Not mixed messages, just my rationalizing to protect my ego.

    I understand that.

    But, then why do I keep thinking that her interest level was actually higher, and that I am interrupting her interest level incorrectly?

    I keep having thoughts that my beta insecurity in the beginning is the reason I think she had low interest level and that she actually did have a higher interest level than what I remember, which would mean her seemingly high interest level in me right now is genuine.

    Or am I just rationalizing?

    Is this just a oneitis thing?

    The comment he got from that chick “don’t look at me like that” sounds familiar. I got that a lot in the first few years of marriage. Along with “I want to make love and you only want to fuck” and “I am not a piece of meat” and “only perverts would want [doggy, anal, swallow, whatever]”

    That shows low interest, no?

  11. I’m a little confused by Sun’s story. Were the girls trying to get on the bike to ride off with him, or were they trying to assault him for being upset at their lack of consideration?

  12. Rollo
    Too many guys think a NEXT (even a tactical NEXT) should be some kind of punishment for a girl who’s just not that responsive. It’s not, it’s pragmatism, plain and simple; particularly for a guy in Striver’s situation.

    That’s thinking like a Beta, maybe with oneitis: “If she were to NEXT me it would be a total rejection of me as a human being and it would hurt a lot and I would never want to hurt a woman that much”.

    Rollo said men are the true romantics, and I argue with that sometimes, but there is for sure at least some truth in it. A woman NEXTing a man is being ruthlessly pragmatic – he doesn’t trip her attraction triggers. It’s not personal, it’s the price of ova at work.

    Absolutely cosign Rollo’s advice to Striver. Agree he probably has more options than he believes, and needs to widen his vision to see who is really around him.

    “Don’t look at me like that” – pfft. High school is totally done…

  13. @CaveClown

    If I am confused about her interest level, that means her interest level is low or non-existent, right?

    Not mixed messages, just my rationalizing to protect my ego.

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/

    Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

    Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

    When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

  14. That shows low interest, no?

    I guess I would say that you’re asking the wrong questions. Are you interested in her? Does she satisfy your needs and wants? If no, next. It’s not about her, it’s about you.

  15. @Cave Clown: ” . . . why do I keep thinking that her interest level was actually higher, and that I am interrupting her interest level incorrectly?”

    Because you are projecting what you think should be, rather than looking at what is. You have a model of your relationship in your mind that you interpose between yourself and reality.

  16. So, I’m trying to understand the specific situation that Striver was describing. He was hiking with her, they stopped to rest/drink/eat, he looked at her… and as a result of his eye contact she spoke the words, “Don’t look at me like that.” ?? Am I getting it right?

    I’m not sure I would have continued the hike at that point, seems like a completely transparent power play. Might have been best to just walk back up to your car.

  17. I’m not sure I would have continued the hike at that point, seems like a completely transparent power play.

    It really doesn’t say much for this woman if she said it in a condescending tone. I think a good response probably would have been something along the lines of, “You’re not fucking with a regular guy here. You’ve hit the jackpot and if you can’t realize that then I’m wasting my time with you” If that doesn’t work then GTFO.

  18. I keep trying to rationalize that she made me wait for sex because I was her first. Crawl under barb wire to fuck me? Yeah right. Only under threat of divorce did she start to fuck me.

    Andy,

    Good call, you’re right.

  19. I took the hiking bitch’s comment to mean that he had too much lust in his eye. Trying to stick him in beta, not sexual, role right off the bat.

    I like to think I would of ended the hike, maybe even left her ass there if we had our own cars.

  20. @CC,

    I mean, I’m no game master, but I think the only choices at that point are either intensifying the eye contact and/or direct escalation in complete defiance of her shit test, or leaving. Her words/actions seem to be exactly as you describe, trying to throw the man she’s with into the friends-forever-non-sexual-bin.

  21. My guess is hiking bitch will be super nice now. Compliments, fake interest. Maybe even put out, but probably not actual PIV at first.

    Scraps of affection to suck him in.

    Sex, but lots of excuses to get out of it. I’m on my period, I’m not feeling well, I worked too many hours can’t we just cuddle?

    I want to take this slow. You’re a good man, I’m sure you understand. Cue the BJ.

    Few weeks later, where is this going? What are we? I think we would be great together. Cue the porn star sex.

    Then no sex, mood swings, endless testing. When she pushed too far? Porno sex…but just once in a while.

    Later…

    Marriage, nagging, divorce, poverty.

    NEXT

  22. My understanding is that remaining virginal while being an Olympian is like remaining an ice cube in hell. Try throwing very healthy, highly attractive, drug-enhanced people between the ages of 18 and 40 into a small area and then throw in the anxiety of competition, the thrill of victory and the search for conquest after defeat into the mix. A virgin wouldn’t stand a chance.

  23. @IB –

    ““The behavior, the worthiness of your spouse fades to background noise . We marry flawed and imperfect human beings , they are going to at times be unworthy , that is a given! We honor our commitment to Christ, we do not love or submit to our husbands based on who they are, but on who Christ is.”

    Who decides what are flaws and what are not flaws?
    Who decides what is perfect and what is imperfect?
    Who determines the qualifications of “worthiness”?
    Worthy for who?
    Worthy for what?

    “…we do not love or submit to our husbands based on who they are, but on who Christ is.”

    Her statement is blasphemy against Christ because Christ taught us to love each other, forgive and forget, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love your enemies.

    “…we do not love or submit to our husbands based on who they are…”

    This is exactly the OPPOSITE of Christ. Christ taught us to love each other for who we are regardless, without judgment.

    Christ did not come to teach women to make judgments concerning mans worthiness, flaws and imperfections and then hide behind a perverted misrepresentation of himself.

  24. Christ –

    “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?”

    So….do any of you guys feel IB loves you?

    I don’t.

    And I was not born this morning.

  25. “So….do any of you guys feel IB loves you?”

    Would I tolerate your endless abuse, attempt to understand WTH is going on in your heads, if I did not love you? Would I come where I was obviously not wanted and attempt to communicate with any of you?

    The opposite of love is indifference boys, not hatred. Were I indifferent to you, I would not be here, attempting to have a completely futile discussion.

  26. Would we tolerate your endless reclassification of rational discussion as abuse if we didn’t see right through your lack of rigor?

    The opposite of intelligence is not stupidity, it is apathy, and you’ve got it in spades, IB. You should shut up, read, and learn.

  27. For whatever this is worth, I wanted to share it here.

    Last night I spoke to my oldest half sister. She is 81. She married my Uncle. Yes you read that correctly. My uncle married my half sister. My mothers younger brother married my fathers oldest daughter. This is real. I cannot make this up, no one can. They were the same age (29 years older than me) and they met their first year of high school together, started dating at age fourteen and married at twenty. They were married sixty one years. There was no blood relationship between any spouses. My parents met because of their relationship. In other words her father ended up marring his older sister and that pair was my parents. For whatever its worth dad WAS from Arkansas.

    All the relatives liked them the most and everyone was always welcome at their home. They have always been the least judgmental and the least uptight of all my family and extended family. They really loved life (she still does) and all the family, their friends, etc. Just basically pretty happy people in general compared to most.

    Anyway they met and started dating at age 14, married at 20, had 4 children, lived in various places in the United States, held various jobs, traveled together a lot and made many, many, many friends. He died last Sunday morning in the hospital shortly after a massive stroke with her lying in bed with him holding him in her arms.

  28. Great post, wonderful topic, go fuck yourself IrritableBowel22.

    I read so many comments that I want to reply to, but I am trying not to grind everything to a halt with long assed replies.

    So I will condense and hope it all makes sense….

    Having children can still be a highly enjoyable and rewarding experience. In my case, it has been one of my greatest achievements of my life.

    My first marriage morphed into a disaster of which I take full responsibility. The birth of my first child came under extreme circumstances and I allowed those circumstances to turn on beta tendencies up to ” 11″ on the volume knob. But I was able to Father my daughter in the way I wanted to and not punk out while raising her.

    There is no such thing as having ” too many children “. It depends on the parents and maybe partly on economics. Personally, I come from a gigantic family, paternally and maternally. My great grandfather, who was a huge influence in my life, had 15 kids. Every one of his children and grandchildren revered the man. The elders set the tone for generations. ( this is why I kicked myself so hard for my beta lapse ).

    The FI would like nothing better than to see men erased from the lives of their children. The courts help greatly to make this possible. But all is not necessarily lost.

    To marry and have children, a man must understand that he is excepting the burden of which we all are familiar with. Your first task is in choosing the wife/mother. Red Pill will be indispensable here as it is in most aspects of life.

    To be a father, you have to ignore the current pussified information on parenting. A mother serves a much different capacity than a father. Neither can fill both roles. The roles have to be clearly defined and not wavered from. There’s a lot of outside influences that will worm their way into your parenting life. The father must be able and willing to shut down these alien influences in the home.

    Wealth will not insure a healthy family unit. There are hundreds of examples of well off families that are disasters and complete cluster fucks. The man is the head and is responsible for teaching and instilling discipline and love – not wishy-washy love, but a manly love which is completely different from ” motherly love “.

    Being a father today is more challenging than in the past. There is a reason that men must choose their women much more wisely, because if you choose the hottie solely because she accepts your years-salary diamond ring, you are asking for a potential ass raping later on. Exercise red pill thinking and take your time when deciding who will expand your genetic legacy.

    Anyone can knock up chicks. Being a father is something completely different. You will get back most of what you put in. it’s a 24 hour job and will become a driving force in your life for at least the first decade of a child’s life, when you will be intensely molding them into decent, self sufficient, intelligent people.

    And know this going in ; society, the education system, and the legal system will be your adversary. If you say ” well shit, who would sign up for that?”, just be aware that these things are still your adversary anyway. It’s a part of life.

  29. ….go fuck yourself IrritableBowel22…..

    “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you…..”

    That’s a sweet love story, Not Born This Morning. I am sorry for your loss.

  30. “For whatever this is worth, I wanted to share it here…

    Thanks, NBTM. These are stories that also need to be told.

  31. IB –

    “That’s a sweet love story, Not Born This Morning. I am sorry for your loss.”

    Thank you.

    This is not to downplay or reject your sympathy, so please don’t interpret it that way. You can trust that I sincerely do not mean this to be a rejection of your sympathy and I trust you meant it sincerely.

    However, it was not “a sweet love story”. It was not a story at all. It was and is real life. I did not share it thinking of it as a story, it all really happened, is happening. Unfortunately, I cannot help but think the description “a sweet love story” trivializes the reality of it into an unreal context; seems somehow condescending. “a sweet love story” seems to make it frivolous and relatively meaningless. I trust this is not your intent and perhaps it is only my interpretation. However, it still seems cheesy to me.

  32. “Would we tolerate your endless reclassification of rational discussion as abuse if we didn’t see right through your lack of rigor?

    The opposite of intelligence is not stupidity, it is apathy, and you’ve got it in spades, IB. You should shut up, read, and learn.”

    IB, if you want to understand why all you get here is contempt, read @Jeremy’s comment above a few times, let it truly sink in, then read it again.

    Will Rodgers wisely said, “You never get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression”. You blew your chance a long time ago and now you’ve worn our patience to a nub. Time for you to pack up your freak show and take it elsewhere.

  33. @insanity.
    Scroll down to Playing the devil’s advocate from Rollo’s blogroll.
    Playing the devil’s advocate blog has a great post ,let me know which part of it you like.

  34. @CaveClown

    If you’re confused about a woman’s interest level, you’re probably trying to confuse yourself about her interest level.

  35. @Andy “The craziest thing was that, even more powerful than pregnancy hormones are the lactating hormones kick in. They are incredibly strong. While my wife was nursing our boys full time she literally had ZERO alpha interest. I’m sure some of you guys are thinking. “oh yeah, that’s because you weren’t alpha enough, blah, blah, blah”… No. I’m telling you they are designed to drive that man out of their life. Her vagina becomes drier than the Sahara. Her ability to orgasm vanishes completely and most times sex is painful. Also, did you know that when women are lactating their cycle doesn’t resume? Yeah. they can’t get pregnant. It is so fucked up.”

    ^^ It doesn’t always produce this kind of scenario. I’m not sure what’s going on with your wife… but this is the exact opposite of what we experience.

    Maybe some of the men here can give you advice??

  36. Re: Striver’s hiking girl:

    everyone suggests just leaving when she told him to ‘not look at me like that.’ Jeremy gives another possibility – testing her frame/calling her bluff by escalating. Both are fine for dominant men to do, if you can do them without emotion and congruently. Neither are what a dominant and happy man would do.

    For your own amusement, agree and amplify the shit test by pretending to be beta-butthurt about it. Make it into a melodramatic game about how you were falling for her and now your heart is crushed, or how she’s shaming your for your innocent desire to bone her, or whatever the hell fits into the context. Have fun with the circumstance. Flip the script suddenly on her if she starts showing interest after passing the shit test; pull away, act like she’s smothering you, tease her for being ‘so easy’ or wanting your dick, again, whatever fits the circumstance. Then, kino.

    Don’t let the butthurt flow through you.

    Then, whatever happens, next. Her initial interest level disqualifies her for anything past a bj on the mountainside. If she chases hard, plate her if you like her.

  37. “It doesn’t always produce this kind of scenario. I’m not sure what’s going on with your wife… but this is the exact opposite of what we experience.
    Maybe some of the men here can give you advice??”

    What he wrote is almost exactly what I experienced with my wife. I have two other friends of mine that say the same thing, that during pregnancy and nursing all she wanted was comfort, no sex, no alpha.

    I took it to mean that the old “pregnant women are more horny” trope was false. Probably depends on each individual woman and circumstance.

    My wife is usually very orgasmic. 4 or more per session is not uncommon. But during pregnancy and nursing she was not able to orgasm.

    Also during nursing her clit and her nipples were painful to the touch. (and nipples not just because of the baby, although that was some of it)

    Nursing women CAN ovulate, but it is not common, according to her vagina doctor.

  38. “If you’re confused about a woman’s interest level, you’re probably trying to confuse yourself about her interest level”

    Huh?

    Forge, can you flesh this out a bit?

  39. Bites:
    The opposite of love is indifference boys, not hatred.

    Good girly! You’ve learned something from the androsphere. Have a cookie.

    Were I indifferent to you, I would not be here, attempting to have a completely futile discussion.

    No, you’d be busy converting some of us to a smell from the attic, dearie. Or at least trying to…

    Bites, the walking FI gift that keeps on giving.

  40. @Cave Clown: He’s saying more or less the same thing I did from a different perspective, i.e. you’re playing head games on yourself. Your gut is telling you her interest is low, but you want it to be high and are trying to do your best to interpret it that way, so you are “confused.”

    1. @kfg
      “Because you are projecting what you think should be, rather than looking at what is. You have a model of your relationship in your mind that you interpose between yourself and reality.”

      Holy hell I do that a lot.

      @Jeremy
      “I’m not sure I would have continued the hike at that point, seems like a completely transparent power play. Might have been best to just walk back up to your car.”

      I climbed Mt Washington in a somewhat similar fashion. Except said person was diabetic. Forgivable yet harsh and ruthless.

      Come to think of it all my lessons about myself come from burdens of unexpressed pain about dealing with people as they ARE not as I project them to be.

      @Caveclown
      Women sometimes appreciate being left to think about their behavior.
      My sisters banged the hell out of every alpha who treating them horribly because they got the tingles and where shown dominance.
      When and how they where disrespectful they usually made plans for another guy.

      Harsher when I attempted to bring that stuff up. Usually got into a wrestling fight and exchange observable character flaws. judgements of misbehavior at the wrong time can lead to major loss in other areas if your not careful about demonstrating as opposed to explicating. I still have a lot to learn about how much I relied on a system without my best interest at heart.

      @keyser soze
      Holy hell I love to run but this women had a family.
      Almost wanna read the book apparently it’s bi polars fault. But also the husband know about it?

      @Not Born this morning
      “Anyway they met and started dating at age 14, married at 20, had 4 children, lived in various places in the United States, held various jobs, traveled together a lot and made many, many, many friends. He died last Sunday morning in the hospital shortly after a massive stroke with her lying in bed with him holding him in her arms.”

      Sorry for your loss. Reading about Louis zamperini and he’s wife did the same when he passed.

      @Blaximus
      “To marry and have children, a man must understand that he is excepting the burden of which we all are familiar with. Your first task is in choosing the wife/mother. Red Pill will be indispensable here as it is in most aspects of life.”

      Your speaking as a farther and I very much appreciate that being said clearly and firmly based of actual real world experience.

      “And know this going in ; society, the education system, and the legal system will be your adversary.”

      Ahh hell that’s it? Time to get into more self improvement.

      @Caveclown
      I suppose it means if she had interest she Would let him know. High interest means someone actually lets you know they are interesting in you.

      Off to practice I go.

  41. Let’s presume that both Dragonfly and Andy & CaveClown are right and there are some women who are feeling sexually available/active during/after pregnancy and some who don’t.

    We know what the father is feeling during that time, he needs sexual contact the same as any other day of his life.

    Now, you can take what the wife says at face value, that she’s in pain and she just doesn’t feel like it, and essentially self-sacrifice like any modern-world male would.

    Presuming that is the route you go, what is she sacrificing in return?

    You, her man, have a biologically programmed need that she can satisfy the best, just like your newborn child, and she’s decided not to help you out with that. Isn’t that a bit like not changing the kids diaper often enough, or not nursing him enough?

    I would argue it is.

  42. @Andy

    “The craziest thing was that, even more powerful than pregnancy hormones are the lactating hormones kick in. They are incredibly strong. While my wife was nursing our boys full time she literally had ZERO alpha interest. I’m sure some of you guys are thinking. “oh yeah, that’s because you weren’t alpha enough, blah, blah, blah”… No. I’m telling you they are designed to drive that man out of their life. Her vagina becomes drier than the Sahara. Her ability to orgasm vanishes completely and most times sex is painful. Also, did you know that when women are lactating their cycle doesn’t resume? Yeah. they can’t get pregnant. It is so fucked up.”

    Whoa there fella.

    A lactating woman can still ovulate and she can become pregnant.

    All of this is highly individualistic though. Breastfeeding can retard cycles for an awful long time. Lactating doesn’t slow the works down as much. If a woman is providing all the babies meals via actual breastfeeding, it may be many months before her cycle restarts normally, but in some cases she can still get pregnant because the ovulation may be very random and without normal symptoms of a period.

    So if a woman doesn’t breastfeed 6-8 time a day, every day, her lactation in itself is not going to stop her from getting pregnant. Prolactin is the culprit for breastfeeding women that screws up the sex drive and pleasure.

    Oh, btw, if you get high prolactin ( from a pituitary issue let’s say ), it will do pretty much the same thing to you.

  43. @Jeremy

    Were the girls trying to get on the bike to ride off with him, or were they trying to assault him for being upset at their lack of consideration?

    Yes.

    It was that “You pissed me off and played with me, I want to come play with you” type of “anger”. They were trying to act angry with big grins on their face. I negged the entire car and it worked basically.

  44. kfg
    “Because you are projecting what you think should be, rather than looking at what is. You have a model of your relationship in your mind that you interpose between yourself and reality.”

    Exactly. “Ought to be” vs. “actually is”. Conservative deniers of Game often wind up insisting that women aren’t as Game teaches, because they ought to be something else.

    Ought vs. is. Women sometimes wander off down rabbit trails into the world of “ought”, men can’t really afford to do that.

  45. @Jeremy “Now, you can take what the wife says at face value, that she’s in pain and she just doesn’t feel like it, and essentially self-sacrifice like any modern-world male would.
    Presuming that is the route you go, what is she sacrificing in return?
    You, her man, have a biologically programmed need that she can satisfy the best, just like your newborn child, and she’s decided not to help you out with that. Isn’t that a bit like not changing the kids diaper often enough, or not nursing him enough?
    I would argue it is.”

    Exactly this!

    +1

  46. Jeremy

    After the birth of both my children ( 2 women ), both expressed a loss of sexual desire for about 3 months. In both cases I was informed that each understood that it was ” unfair ” that I suffer because of the lack of desire on their part and sex/blowjobs/handjobs ensued, usually without any prompting on my part.

    Now I can see that maybe I was just fortunate (?).

    I’m gathering that this is very individualistic.

    After childbirth I am prone to give a woman a pass. They have a volatile hormonal cocktail inside of them and it takes many of them months to get fully back to being themselves.

    My first wife was extremely concerned about the lack of sex drive because we’d always had an overly active sex life. She said she didn’t feel at all like herself and that she felt almost numb ” down there “. We spoke to a few docs and I consulted women in my family about post birth sexlessness and I was pretty confident that things would get back to normal

    This is part of being a father/having kids. Sacrifice can take many different forms. Sure, you still have your biological needs as a man, but you also have a newborn that has ( unwittingly ) wrecked your woman’s body internally and externally. The sex will resume, let her heal up and get her hormones back in line. Big picture and all that.

  47. Supposedly I’m going to be playing around with a 300hp turbo Hayabusa this weekend. We’ll see what kind of trouble that gets me in.

  48. My parents “put the children first”.

    To the extent that they separated after the youngest went off to college.

    A lot attention & energy went to us. And a lot of their day-to-day & major life decisions were explicitly made on our behalf, to their emotional expense. And they let us know it too. Especially my dad, who seemed pretty miserable all the time. It probably did not help that he allowed my mom to nag & browbeat him into a subordinate position.

    I don’t think they did us any great favors by focusing so much on us either. I remember feeling a lot of stress & guilt at being partially responsible for my parents’ unhappiness.

    I remember thinking that I wished they would do less for us, if it meant they would be happier themselves. And have their own friends & hobbies & interests that were not centered on us kids.

    Watching them made me believe that being married & having kids was a huge drag & joy-killer. It is one of the reasons I have stayed single so long.

    One of the freedoms the red pill has given me is the ability to imagine a life I can enjoy that includes a properly ordered family hierarchy. If I assert myself and make myself happy first, then I have happiness to share with my woman & family. If by my weakness I allow others to destroy my happiness then I have only misery to share.

  49. Why putting the kids’ wishes first isn’t always a good idea:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3253492/Mom-captures-emotional-life-changing-moment-transgender-daughter-14-surprised-hormone-therapy-drugs-waiting-TWO-YEARS.html

    tldr; Parents follow the whims of their biological son to go on massively disruptive hormonal regime. Transgenders are at a much higher suicide risk for suicide than other sections of the population, and many treatments are permanently irreversible. This should be considered child abuse.

  50. Another great article Rollo!…. For fun, at your next party or happy hour in mixed company of course, state, “A woman should put her man first in their relationship, not the kids” and watch the faces of anger/outrage, you will even get the betas in a lather. Few women will agree, if ever, to that statement. But be sure, you will be the talk of the party after that. I put that up there with saying to women, “So when was the last romantic/sexy/seductive thing you’ve done for your man?”. You will hear crickets, then usually comments of complete indignance or arrogance with responses such as , “i don’t have to do that anymore ” or “I’m the prize@, followed by a smirkt grin and big laugh. Women now are required to do less and less, and the poor plugged in man suffers. Again, great comments and the article was a great read. Rollo you truly are the best in the “manosphere”.

  51. My parents “put the children first”.
    To the extent that they separated after the youngest went off to college.

    It’s been a “feature” since the 70’s, apparently. Naturally the Boomers have raised it to an art form. I’m guessing that making children the center of the family means when the youngest leaves there’s big, gaping hole in the center of the family, and a couple of older people with grey hair looking at each other saying, “Who the heck are you?”, not a good situation.

    IMO women have a natural tendency to “marry” their children. Used to be sisters, mothers, aunts, etc. would rein that in. Now, not so much. It’s up to the man, as usual, to set the tone.

    I repeat: unbreakable frame.

  52. @Guy

    Says in that article that not only did they put him on estrogen, but they gave him a “puberty suppressing implant”

    What in the actual fuck.

    I do very little reading of mainstream media. I stick to the likes of trm, ch, danger and play, etc.

    I’ve been in “total immersion” mode on mindset, game, and red pill training. So when I read shit like what you linked to, I suddenly remember how fucked up the world can be.

    All I can do is laugh.

    One day “have you always been a woman?” might be part of my screening process for chicks…

  53. Re: post child birth

    So all y’all are saying that a wife should at least attempt to meet her husband’s needs?

    So…my wife ignoring me for 6 months after our daughter was born was not an indicator of interest? I don’t mean just sexually either, I mean 100% ignore, not a word said unless absolutely necessary.

    I miss the quiet.

  54. Cave

    Damn, completely ignoring?

    I have no words.

    Like I said, it’s highly individualistic. Maybe some others who’ve gone through the whole birth thing can chime in here?

    My experience is that the women in my life at least ( said ) that they understood what I must’ve been going through ( even though I wasn’t ” going through” that much at the time ) and made spirited but mostly lackluster attempts at providing what I call Sexual Comfort.

    I appreciated the gestures.

    Idk how I would have handled 6 months of ignoring honestly. I may have shown up on the 11 pm news doing a perp walk in handcuffs.

  55. Man, that article about the teenager being permanently damaged with hormones is so pathetic. Look, I get that “gender dysphoria” exists, but you know what? There’s people out there who are convinced that their own leg really isn’t there leg. These are brain problems. Wiring problems. The answer isn’t in cutting up men so they can pretend to be women, the answer is in rewiring the brain so that a given human being can be comfortable in their own skin.

    Seriously, the whole “gender reassignment” industry is totally parasitic, it’s a 20th century idea. Oh, and if we are all so interchangeable, how come men that decide to have themselves cut up have to be given a lot of estrogen, huh? Why, it’s almost as if hormones are part of who we are.

    Doing that to anyone under 18 is a crime, a really ugly crime.

    And yeah, the suicide rate is horrible. In fact, the suicide rate tells us just how often surgery fails to solve the underlying problem

    1. @Anonymous Reader, since I’m focusing on parenting this week I’ll say this; this recent social push for transgender embracement of children is precisely why a Red Pill awareness in parenting is crucial.

      When little girls are sexualized in pageants or in dance (Dance Moms) feminists rage to high heaven, but sexualize a little boy and encourage him to dress and act like a girl and that, that is laudable and a sign of challenging gender stereotypes.

      We have laws for consent and statutory rape because as a society we believe that if you’re under 18 (or 16 in some cases) you cannot make informed decisions about your sexuality and would be open to the predations of adults, but yet we’ll promote the idea that a kid as young as 5 is already so in touch with his sexual nature he can make a decision as to whether he knows he should’ve been born a girl?

  56. At the risk of looking like a beta loser (like I care)

    6 months is her record for all at once. I figure total ignore time is right around 3.5 years in total.

    I don’t think I’m in a single photo with my youngest as an infant, except in the delivery room.

    I wasn’t kidding when I said she BPD.

    I’ll ignore you and then threaten to kill myself for you ignoring me.

    She’s acting very normal right now…

    Divorce paperwork might have something to do with that

  57. Cave Clown, 6 months of ignoring you totally? The best spin I can put on that is post partum depression, and for that she should have been seeing a doctor. Another explanation is that you were way too beta, and she had gotten what she wanted; ring and baybee.

    I’ve known some couples where the woman had some serious depression issues, it was hard on both of them. Even that woudn’t excuse a total cold shoulder, though.

    There ain’t an excuse for that.

  58. “Unfortunately, I cannot help but think the description “a sweet love story” trivializes the reality of it into an unreal context; seems somehow condescending. “a sweet love story” seems to make it frivolous and relatively meaningless..”

    I meant it, I am sorry for your loss. What you are rejecting is my feminized language, but that is simply how I speak and not intended to sound condescending at all.

  59. Does anyone else detect a slight difference in tone from it? Maybe Mr. Byteher has taken over and she’s on her way to being another aroma in the crawl space. He’ll gradually wind down her hobby blog and Mr. B will keep up less and less of her appearances here. It’s how I’d handle it…..Looks like it’s started.

    1. Does anyone else detect a slight difference in tone from it?

      As I’ve said before, IB exhibits every indication that she suffers from a bipolar disorder. Add to this the symptoms common to women during menopause and you can understand her multiple personalities better.

  60. Anon reader, see my comment above.

    The stories I could tell about being with a BPD chick. My God.

    Intentional animal cruelty?
    Insisting on half the house being play area for kids? (Yes half)
    Take cash out of bank for coffee and its for hookers and porn?
    Being rude to my employees?
    Telling my mother that she wants to visit more but I don’t, then telling me she won’t visit my family because she is jealous of how close I am to them and not her?
    Buying and agreeing with books about traditional gender roles and convincing me that being a stay at home wife is best for me and the kids?

    And the threats of suicide.

    That’s just a start.

    Yes, I was beta, but yes she is crazy.

  61. Nah, ib just realizes she overstepped and is trying to backtrack by adding comfort and affirmations of value. If you read it though, she is actually trying to increase her value. Insecurity.

    This is the stage where if we were her husband, we’d be getting our dicks sucked.

    Its the high on the coaster, it always comes back down.

    Its the crazy chick way. Fly that crazy flag!

    I can smell crazy a mile away.

  62. “I can smell crazy a mile away.”

    Apparently not, since you seem to have married it.

    Listen however, pregnancy hormones generally increase desire, as does childbirth and nursing. Also threats of suicide are extremely abusive and I’m sorry you’re going through that.

  63. “I meant it,”

    Feigned sincerity.

    “I am sorry for your loss.”

    The socially required expression of condolences, proving she has sympathy and social awareness.

    “What you are rejecting”

    Oh there it is, the blame. Your fault.

    “is my feminized language,”

    How can you argue with that? Not her fault she is female, therefore you have no basis to disagree.

    “but that is simply how I speak”

    She can’t help it, how dare you insinuate that she could?

    “and not intended to sound condescending at all.”

    So if you took it as condescending that is your fault and not her’s because you are choosing to interpret her words in a negative way. You are assuming bad intentions, which makes you the asshole because she can’t help speaking in a feminine manner, after all she is a woman. Would you fault her for that? For being female?

    In only 32 words she spun herself as a woman of virtue and you as the judgmental asshole.

    I give this a 6 out of 10 on the ol’ “bat shit crazy” meter.

    Gotta do better than that IB.

  64. “Apparently not, since you seem to have married it.
    Listen however, pregnancy hormones generally increase desire, as does childbirth and nursing. Also threats of suicide are extremely abusive and I’m sorry you’re going through that.”

    Oh, start it with the shaming insult this time.

    Gotta be more clever than that.

  65. Cave Clown, you ability to create drama where none exists is downright womanly.

    THAT was a shaming insult. As was the comment about you inability to identify crazy.

    My condolences to Not Born this Morning and my empathy for your unfortunate situation were both sincere.

  66. @IsThisThingOn – On this: http://www.vice.com/read/youre-single-because-there-arent-enough-men-253?utm_source=vicefbus

    “How could a man of that age be so cavalier about casting aside such an amazing woman?….Why are there so many “great” single women? Where are all the great single men?”

    Cavalier??? HA! Of course, in todays media, women are infallible and angelic…so men should be so lucky?
    http://www.ratemycollegehousing.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/chiefkeefnah.jpg

    We are not some safety net for women who decided to go through their phases and follow the rest of the herd through their phases. You are not entitled to our time, sperm, resources or attention. First of all you must EARN IT, secondly, there are, literally, hundreds of thousands of fish in the sea…cry me a fucking river. Half plus 7!

    Wow! Vice and most media nowadays is intensely blue pill and full on with that equalism shit. Which is exactly why we men need to red pill our sons (and daughters…and their mothers) from birth. With the way we act, what we say…It’s really unavoidable considering history and how shit is the cards are basically stacked against our (future) kids.

    Be a red pill parent…first be red pill…demonstrate don’t explicate.

    I’m also not a fan of single families but I’m all for pulling a Christiano Ronaldo…surrogate mom. Women who end up having my children will understand that if they want to try and detonate their situation or pull that wild oats shit….that they can do it…over there, away from me and mine, they are replaceable – I am the constant….I’m not going to risk my children being taken away…

  67. My condolences to Not Born this Morning and my empathy for your unfortunate situation were both sincere.

    Hey! How about me? Didn’t you say you were sincere to me, too?

  68. “IB exhibits every indication that she suffers from a bipolar disorder….”

    I do not.

    However Tomassi, if you could set aside your assholery for a moment and stop your relentless attacks and insults, you might come to discover that I am an actual human being worthy of a smidgion of basic courtesy. Or it is possible that the ego investment you have in endlessly hating on women, carries a payoff too great for your psyche to let go of. If so, I am so sorry.

    1. “I’m not too humble to say that the Red Pill has a better track record than your ‘efforts’”

      I know you’re not humble, Tomassi. I know you’re just an asshole like so many other people, a boring and common asshole taking the easy way out. Enjoy your life hardening the hearts of broken men and relentlessly blaming women.

      At least I now know why I could never save them.

      http://therationalmale.com/2015/09/09/solipsism-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-117715

  69. you might come to discover that I am an actual human being worthy of a smidgion of basic courtesy.

    Hey! What about me, wasn’t I an actual human being worthy of a smidgion of basic courtesy, too?

    But smell me now!

  70. “As I’ve said before, IB exhibits every indication that she suffers from a bipolar disorder. Add to this the symptoms common to women during menopause and you can understand her multiple personalities better.”

    Bipolar or borderline?

    Borderline usually is brought out by interpersonal relationships, life challenges, and insecurities being brought to light (if only in their mind) The manic to depressive swings can change very rapidly. Not uncommon for a BPD to change moods several times an hour at their worst. When the “triggers” are absent, a BPD typically reverts back to a “flat affect” type of emotional base. It’s believed that this is why BPD’s create drama and manipulation, to keep some sort of emotion going at all, versus the lack of feeling that “flat affect” brings. Flat affect is very common in schizophrenia, PTSD, and severe depression (especially in men) as well.

    Bipolar (manic depressives) tend to have longer periods of each mood. Sometimes months, but usually several days at the least. Bipolar’s have symptoms that come out of no where and without warning, much like normal depression. They can go months or years with no symptoms at all, also like normal depression. The difference is that the manic swings are higher and the depressive lows are lower than that of normal depression or BPD. I’m familiar with stories of bi polar individuals getting so high in the manic phase that they literally think they are physically indestructible, or imagine themselves as some sort of deity. The depressive side can be the lowest of lows, where people starve themselves to death because they don’t fell they deserve to eat.

    I’m sure you know all this.

  71. @Blaximus

    After childbirth I am prone to give a woman a pass. They have a volatile hormonal cocktail inside of them and it takes many of them months to get fully back to being themselves.

    Why? Why assume that the presence of your sexuality in her life is bad for her during a hormonal mix? I was reading a while back that sex during menstruation, when done correctly, actually alleviates many of the symptoms of some women. I would argue that human life evolved to accommodate persistent male sexual needs in most aspects of a woman’s life, whether she wants to admit that or not.

    Keep in mind, you’re talking to someone who has never been a father, and never had a serious LTR for that matter. From that perspective, my best option is to force you to ask these questions of yourself. It’s your choice to question your judgement or not, but from my perspective it is not an automatic that male sexuality is a “bad thing” when women are mixed-up hormonally.

    This is part of being a father/having kids. Sacrifice can take many different forms. Sure, you still have your biological needs as a man, but you also have a newborn that has ( unwittingly ) wrecked your woman’s body internally and externally. The sex will resume, let her heal up and get her hormones back in line. Big picture and all that.

    This seems like blue pill thinking to me, because you’re finding a reason to self-sacrifice instead of exploring the idea that maybe, biologically, it’s actually better if you don’t self-sacrifice.

    Women have competing needs from men, that are constantly shifting with their cycle. As Rollo mentions in PM, during different phases of their cycle they’ll respond to different sides of male behavior, alpha or beta. Shouldn’t it therefore be a reasonable conclusion then that your needs are actually part of her process, part of her cycle in a sense, and when exercised in a healthy fashion they are likely to enrich her life in ways she didn’t expect.

  72. BPD’s tend to focus on one emotion as well.

    So their anger can go way up or way down,

    or their happiness can go way up or way down,

    or disgust or love or lust or whatever.

    It is very specific. I LOVE YOU!!! (20 mins later) I HATE YOU!!! (20 minutes later) I WANNA FUCK YOU!!! (20 minutes later) SEX IS DISGUSTING!!!

    And they can be separate. High on lust and high on anger are something I see a lot. So is high on love but high on disgust. High on love and low on self worth is common too. (I love everyone but myself)

    Bipolar is a more generalized feeling. They are on top of the world, or the world has destroyed them. Superman or worthless bum. Vague, manically high happiness or vague, depressingly low feelings of worth.

    And that is the extent of the BPD vs Bipolar education that none of you asked for. lol

  73. Transgender in kids…

    I can’t in any world justify that one. I don’t doubt that there’s a real situation where the brain’s chemistry is the wrong sex for a particular body. But the current “solution” is no solution at all. One of my favorite PC games when I was younger was designed by a very funny, very smart designer named Dan Bunten. He was a transexual that decided to undergo the surgery to become a she later in life.

    When interviewed about it, he had this to say: “Being my ‘real self’ could have included having a penis and including more femininity in whatever forms made sense. I didn’t know that until too late and now I have to make the best of the life I’ve stumbled into. I just wish I would have tried more options before I jumped off the precipice.”

    I felt incredibly sad when I read a statement like that from a person whose work I greatly admired.

    The current version of acceptance is cruel in that it sweeps their problems under the rug by pretending bad plastic surgery and a disruptive dose of hormones is a “fix”. Figuring out how to fix the chemical imbalance that makes them feel like they’re the wrong sex or even discovering some sort of way to genuinely change the sex of their body are both acceptable fixes to me. Mutilating their genitals or destroying their body chemistry to sort-of-kind-of make them in to this Frankenstein of both sexes that they wind up regretting is a no solution, and pretending to think its fine does them no favors.

    Letting a kid do something that stupid? Hell no. Not in a million years. If they want to do it on their own once they’re an adult, I’d advise them against it, but while it’s my decision it ain’t happening.

    I feel for the folks in that situation. I really do. But I want to help them accept who they are for now and find real solutions for them eventually. Irreversibly destroying the functioning bodies they’re born with doesn’t fall under either category to me.

  74. @Sun

    When interviewed about it, he had this to say: “Being my ‘real self’ could have included having a penis and including more femininity in whatever forms made sense. I didn’t know that until too late and now I have to make the best of the life I’ve stumbled into. I just wish I would have tried more options before I jumped off the precipice.”

    I felt incredibly sad when I read a statement like that from a person whose work I greatly admired.

    This is a large part of what makes me think that most sexuality is created in self-discovery during in young adulthood. So many transgendered admit error after completing their transition. So many of them, on self-reflection after going through it all, recognize their mistake and admit that if they could only have convinced themselves that this change was unnecessary, or that some other path of self-discovery were chosen, they might be more “intact and functional” now.

    I feel like biology is a motivator, but not a determiner of the sexuality you end up with. This is why we get women who are “sort-of lesbians” whereas men who are gay, are truly fucking gay. It’s because male sexuality has a stronger and more constant motivation behind it leading to a strong identification with objects of arousal… Whereas in contrast female sexuality is cyclical and hence less concretely defined in their discovery phase.

    I also feel like some men who during their self-discovery only have experience with the denigration of masculinity, and the elevation of feminimity, end up dissociating their own sexuality from the body they were given. Because the only experience they can base their self-discovery on taught them that they have no valid sexuality unless they become something else. I would likewise associate this with female transgendered as well (since there are still women who grow up in homes where feminimity is openly derided, and/or masculinity is held up as the ideal).

    Only in accepting the twisted notion that body modification is an acceptable solution to confused sexual discovery has this phenomenon become something that the west embraces. Only our love of self-righteousness in the west keeps this farce going.

  75. Tomassi, that doesn’t make me bi polar, that makes me authentically angry with you. And for good reason, you were a jerk.

    Bipolar and borderline are the two most misdiagnosed and misunderstood accusations in the manosphere. It is every man’s
    “get out of jail free card,” I don’t understand women so obviously I must have encountered a defective unit. Some of you engage in some abusive and appalling behavior and then act totally surprised when women don’t like it. Than you try labeling her crazy, when in fact, you were the one who made her act that way.

  76. Indeed, IB, everyone must be against you. It couldn’t possibly be that you don’t understand what you think you understand. It couldn’t possibly be that you deliberately post crap that you know is crap to self-generate indignation. It couldn’t possibly be that your understanding of men is flawed and requires more learning….

    No, no, everyone else is retarded, you’re correct, and we’re all just assholes. Now, lets close the lid on this and let the praise of your superior understanding of the world echo for you. Sound nice?

    /It shouldn’t.

    1. @Anonymous Reader
      “IMO women have a natural tendency to “marry” their children. Used to be sisters, mothers, aunts, etc. would rein that in. Now, not so much. It’s up to the man, as usual, to set the tone.

      I repeat: unbreakable frame.”

      Thank you had a lot of dysfunctions and troubles someone today told something kinda cool
      “if your wrong admit it if your right say nothing,”
      Frame the man had was unbreakable

      @Sun Wukong
      “Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.”
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQOggs0CQ4

      The red pill
      “Politics is the art of controlling your environment.”

      @Caveclown
      “I’ll ignore you and then threaten to kill myself for you ignoring me.”

      Your not beta dealing with that shit if alpha is a mindset within YOUR Frame but that kills your soul without relating that from the start.

      Be gentle with your man. Dealing with that I hang out with my team at a bar and just talk about sports and the most useful useless information possible.

      “Their are no victims only.
      volunteers.”
      The illimitable male

      “I’m sure you know all this.”
      I wrote a letter about whole body harvesting once and for sent to the Lonny bin and they claimed I was bi polar. I would argue the trauma and rage and sadness played a role in being the emotional sponge in my family but it’s never a good ideal argue with a man who is wearing white and holds a pen to the “free world” in his hands.

      Hey doc I’m not crazy just a survivor of a series of unfortunate events.

      What makes you think their unfortunate?

      “Misplaced emotions?”

      We call that Bi polar here is some medicine which may increase the memory’s of your reason your here in the first place.

      Enjoy and by the way your room in the lockdown cell is next to a women much like your sister who may slash her wrist in front of you. Now to your Right is man who thinks he’s the mayor of New York. If you piss him off he may gather the other inmates as a mob and eat your lunch and attack you with a scrabble board.

      Any questions?

      Doc anyway I could sleep an a floor somewhere else and still be monitored?

      No.

      Gee thanks Doc when I see you next?

      2 weeks

      Bye Doc

      (lesson never journal about whole-body harvesting)

      “High on love and low on self worth is common too. (I love everyone but myself)”

      That was common in my teens.

      “Bipolar is a more generalized feeling. They are on top of the world, or the world has destroyed them. Superman or worthless bum. Vague, manically high happiness or vague, depressingly low feelings of worth.”
      https://m.soundcloud.com/rslblog-com/elliott-smith-needle-in-the
      This guy stabbed himself in the heart and can’t of a better definition about the effects of bi polar.

      “Smith died on October 21, 2003 at the age of 34 years from two stab wounds to the chest.[4] At the time of the stabbing, he was at his Lemoyne Street home in Echo Park, California,[64] where he lived with his partner, Jennifer Chiba. According to Chiba, the two were arguing,[38] and she locked herself in the bathroom to take a shower.[65] Chiba heard him scream, and upon opening the door, saw Smith standing with a knife in his chest. She pulled the knife out, after which he collapsed and she called 9-1-1. Smith died in the hospital with the time of death listed as 1:36 p.m. A possible suicide note, written on a Post-it note, read: “I’m so sorry—love, Elliott. God forgive me.”[4]”

      “On July 30, 2004, Chiba filed a lawsuit against the Smith family for 15% of his earnings (over $1 million),[82] claiming that she and Smith lived as “husband and wife”,[83] that the singer pledged to take care of her financially for the rest of her life, and that she worked as his manager and agent from around 2000 until his death.[84] A state labor commissioner ruled her claim as manager to be invalid, as she had worked as an “unlicensed talent agent” under California’s Talent Agencies Act. The case made it to the California appellate court in October 2007, but was defeated 2–1; Chiba could potentially appeal the case to the Supreme Court of California.[85]”

      “Chiba further explained that “anyone who understands drug abuse knows that you use drugs to hide from your past or sedate yourself from strong, overwhelming feelings. So when you’re newly clean and coming off the medications that have been masking all those feelings, that’s when you’re the most vulnerable.”

      Women… Without the redpill I find life less manageable.

      Hey thanks a lot. How’s your world going Caveclown? Any good news in your neck of the woods?

      @Rollo Tommasi
      “but sexualize a little boy and encourage him to dress and act like a girl and that, that is laudable and a sign of challenging gender stereotypes.”

      My sisters once dresses me up as afield and looked me out of house so I had to go to
      My neighbors dresses as girl to ask to use the phone because if I remember correctly it was cold and raining.
      Wonder if that ever happened again to their own sons?
      They have one around 2 and 3… Ah hell I hope not.

  77. All,

    Thanks for the feedback. I don’t think I would try to escalate with hiking bitch. Frankly I was turned off when she did that. I’m not going to escalate when I’m turned off. It’s really too direct to be a shit test.

    As far as walking out, it’s not a move I had in my arsenal. Emotionally I’m sure I wanted to do it, I was just frozen emotionally in the moment. Felt the emotions, but didn’t know how to react. I do think it’s a good example of the need to have responses planned, even scripted until you become more natural. So I’ll try to adjust, have my own backup plans whenever I’m with someone, even if it’s just going home.

    In this particular case, I don’t regret sticking around, because the makeout at least got me off the schneid a bit. I’ve got to start somewhere. But this chick is a backup plan at the most, back burner at best. That’s if she made it easy for me. Have to treat her that way, even if there is no one on the front burner for the time being.

    This is not something the ex pulled. That was not one of our issues. One other chick I dated before marriage did something similar, got turned off way too early. For a couple of weeks after I got some hangups on my phone (this was way back, pre caller ID) that I suspect were her. So sometimes the chicks get confused, but it isn’t my problem.

  78. “I was reading a while back that sex during menstruation, when done correctly, actually alleviates many of the symptoms of some women.”

    Sex & Menstruation: I had several LTR’s and never ever did any women not like or want sex during menstruation. Some even liked it especially and I also enoy how that wet hole feels then. There may be blood somewhere, but who cares?

    I’ve to say though I also never eperienced her “denying” me sex in a LTR (same in fuckbuddy arrangement obviously) when I initiated. So if you ask me if a women doesn’t want sex because of menstruation, that’s just an excuse as any other which is just an indicator for a lack of attraction.

  79. “Thanks for the feedback. I don’t think I would try to escalate with hiking bitch. Frankly I was turned off when she did that. I’m not going to escalate when I’m turned off. It’s really too direct to be a shit test.”

    While letting your dick decide is surely right, why did you look at her “like that” in the first place? I’m unfamiliar with american “highschool- game” everyone here seems to know, so maybe I’m not getting something here?

    But if you were horny for her before, I’d also say you shouldn’t let her get you turned off so easily. You don’t have to escalate hard right away. I’d maybe have given her a deep objectifying gaze up and down her body and told her something about my male superpower to see every women naked at will or something. And then see where it leads.

  80. @ Rollo
    I think this “putting the kids first” phenomenon is very simple to explain. She DOESN’T WANT TO FUCK YOU!
    She is using the kids as a shield, a barrier to deflect your UNWANTED BETA SEXUAL ADVANCES.
    It is generally accepted that women are only interested in the top 20% of men, and if you are talking about as marriage partners I would agree with this.
    However if you are talking about as SEX partners that they are genuinely hot for I would estimate this percentage to be north of 5% add in the frame required to maintain her SEXUAL interest in a marriage / LTR and your probably closer to 1-2%.
    It’s really that simple! the women that are with these top tier men, the top 1-2% don’t need to be told to put them before the kids, they do it because he IS more important to her than her kids, because if he leaves she will never be able to replace him with another top tier man now she has his kids in tow.
    Top tier men don’t raise other mens children and she knows this instinctively.
    If you think you can mitigate this by being top 20% and reading a few articles on frame and dread game then I think you will be disappointed.
    Sure you can improve your relationship but your probably not going to be able to command the visceral raw desire that women have for the top tier men that makes the do this shit naturally under their own violation.
    Don’t wish it was easier, make yourself better.

    1. It’s interesting how women adapt to mate options.
      I have a female friend, who was hot as Hell when we were younger. She went to Hollywood, & screwed a lot of celebs(top tier) for women. She now can’t find the “right” man, because she can’t get a top tier man she can brag about now. I’ve watched her turn down solid Alphas who had good jobs because they weren’t good enough. It’s weird that since she has been a major Hollywood groupie, that now she can’t pair bond with “normal” men. This might explain why so many celebrity women are single. It’s either that movie star she craves or nothing!

  81. Benfromtexas: what you describe seems to be a particularly bad case of Alpha widow.
    http://therationalmale.com/tag/alpha-widow/

    The apparently atypical difference is that your female friend simply turns the men down, instead of getting into a relationship with someone and then making him miserable for not being as alpha as the celebs she used to screw.
    I’m guessing that your female friend is financially well-off herself to not feel as much need for a “Beta Bucks”. Celebrity women are usually rich, which I guess explains why they remain single instead of marrying a “Beta Bucks” themselves – if anything they may even worry that the guy will try to screw them out of their money?

    1. Oh yeah, she’s an Alpha Widow with money. I grew up with her & she would tell the Hollywood tales all the time. Rollo is right about how the biological clock is a myth too. She talks about wanting to get married and have kids, but she has yet to bother settling down. The men she meets doesn’t meet her “bragging rights” celebrity standards she was used to, so she just works & goes home. It’s crazy to observe knowing what I know. Women psychologically do pay a price hopping from cock to cock. The number of alphas or at least their last Alpha really does affect them in a crazy way.

  82. @ bft
    I think you’re right about “bragging rights”. It’s just like Rollo says, she doesn’t care about who you are as a person, she only cares about What you are and how you make her feel.
    You are just an accessory to show off to her friends and any children you have are an extension of this dynamic.
    It’s pretty fucked up when you think about it.
    And they accuse us of being shallow!

  83. Listen however, pregnancy hormones generally increase desire, as does childbirth and nursing.

    It doesn’t always produce this kind of scenario. I’m not sure what’s going on with your wife… but this is the exact opposite of what we experience.

    @Dragonfly, IB

    Do you have any sources for these assertions? I don’t doubt that there’s different reactions, but I have a feeling that my wife’s scenario is far more common. Just google “Breastfeeding and Sex” It’s almost 100% what I described.

  84. @Andy… you should ask Stingray or Liz (very reliable, longtime female readers here – and they’ve had more kids than I have). All I have is my own experience & a few friends’s admissions… but yes, my experience is the exact opposite, both during pregnancy and when nursing (been full-time nursing for 9 months now… and we have sex all the time – he can make me crave him by just being around me & bantering back and forth with me even at the end of the day, when I was about to fall asleep, and I’d worked out for an hour and half and am bone dead tired… it’s that unfair the powers he has over me lol). So yes, when I was pregnant (both times) I still craved him.

    I asked my husband about it last night, told him that a couple of the male commenters were trying to convince you it’s normal for a wife to ignore or reject for that long (it is ridiculously long to go the whole pregnancy, which is already almost a year of torture, and then for however many months afterward that she wants to nurse), or otherwise be asexual during those times, and he shot it down straight. Women are ALWAYS sexual creatures. There are many stories out there of pregnant wives cheating on their husbands like rabbits even when they were pregnant with the husband’s child. Meanwhile the husband thinks she’s not in the mood because hormones…. :/ It is cruel, and I’m sorry to point it out.

    He thought that wives who do that are using it as an excuse to mask their lack of real, raw, passionate desire for their husbands. That they try to wait aaas looong as possible, before “having” to get back in the routine of giving you sexual attention or desire.

    That’s just our 2 cents.

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