One of the most basic Red Pill principles I’ve stressed since I began writing is the importance of Frame. The dynamic of Frame stretches into many aspects of a man’s life, but in a strictly intergender sense this applies to men establishing a positive dominance in their relationships with women. In a dating context of non-exclusivity (plate spinning) this means, as a man, you have a solid reality into which that woman wants to be included in. Holding Frame is not about force, or coercion, it’s about attraction and desire and a genuine want on the part of a woman to be considered for inclusion into that man’s reality.
Being allowed into a man’s dominant, confident Frame should be a compliment to that woman’s self-perception. It should be a prize she seeks.
This is a pretty basic principle when you think about it. The main reason women overwhelmingly prefer men older than themselves (statistically 5-7 years difference) is because of the psychological impression that men older than a woman’s age should be more established in his understanding of the world, his career, his direction in life and his mastery over himself and his conditions. From an Alpha Fucks perspective, the ambience of mastery makes an older man preferable, while a Beta Bucks older man represents the prospect of dependable provisioning.
In our contemporary sexual marketplace I think this perception – which used to hold true in a social climate based on the old set of books – is an increasing source of disappointment for women as they move from their post-college party years into the more stressful Epiphany Phase.
And once again we also see evidence of yet another conflict between egalitarianism vs. complementarity. Because all things should be equalized, equalism espouses that this age preference should make no difference in attraction, yet the influence of this natural complementary attraction becomes a source of internal conflict.
Women’s self-perception of personal worth becomes wrapped up in a tight egotistical package that’s tells her men – the men she’s convinced she deserves – should be attracted to and aroused by her based on whatever nebulous personal conviction she has, fat-acceptance approved ideas of what men should be hot for, and he ought to be ready to settle into a coequal parental ‘partnership’ when she’s finally ready to do the right thing.
It’s an interesting paradox. On one hand she’s expects a Hypergamously better than equitable pairing with a self-made man who will magically appreciate her for her self-perceptions of her own personal worth, but also to be, as Sheryl Sandberg puts it, “someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” In other words, an exceptional, high SMV man, with a self-earned world and Frame she wants to partake of; but also one who will be so smitten by her intrinsic qualities (the qualities she hopes will compensate for her physical and personal deficits) that he will compromise the very Frame that made him worthy of her intimacy, and then reduce himself to an equality that lessens him to her.
The Red Pill Father – Frame
The reason I’m going into this is because of a basic tenet of Frame: The Frame you set in the beginning of your relationship will set the tone for the future of that relationship. That isn’t to say men don’t devolve from a strong Alpha frame to a passive Beta one, but the Frame you enter into a relationship with will be the mental impression that woman retains as it develops. Your establishment and maintenance of a strong control of Frame is not just imperative to a healthy relationship and interaction with a woman, but it’s also vital to the health of any family environment and the upbringing of any children that result from it.
At the Man In Demand conference I was asked about my thoughts on the influence family plays in conditioning boys/men to accept a Beta role in life. Mainly the question was about a mother’s dominant influence on her children’s upbringing and how an unconventional shift in intersexual hierarchies predisposes her to imprinting her Hypergamous insecurities onto her children. It gave me a lot to think about.
A common thread I’ve occasionally found with newly Red Pill aware men is the debilitating influence their domineering mothers and Beta supplicating fathers played in forming their distorted perception of masculinity. I made an attempt to address this influence in the Intersexual Hierarchies posts, however, I intended those essays to provide an outline of particular hierarchical models, not really to cover the individual health or malaise of any of them.
The default pedestalization of women that men are prone to is a direct result of accepting that a woman’s frame is the only frame. It’s kind of hard for most ‘plugged in’ men to grasp that they can and should exert frame control in order to establish a healthy future relationship. This is hardly a surprise considering that every facet of their social understanding about gender frame has always defaulted to the feminine for the better part of their lifetimes. Whether that was conditioned into them by popular media or seeing it played out by their beta fathers, for most men in western culture, the feminine reality IS the normalized frame work. In order to establish a healthy male-frame, the first step is to rid themselves of the preconception that women control frame by default. They don’t, and honestly, they don’t want to.
Post LTR Frame
In most contemporary marriages and LTR arrangements, women tend to be the de facto authority. Men seek their wive’s “permission” to attempt even the most mundane activities they’d do without an afterthought while single. I have married friends tell me how ‘fortunate’ they are to be married to such an understanding wife that she’d “allow” him to watch hockey on their guest bedroom TV,…occasionally.
These are just a couple of gratuitous examples of men who entered into marriage with the frame firmly in control of their wives. They live in her reality, because anything can become normal. What these men failed to realize is that frame, like power, abhors a vacuum. In the absence of the frame security a woman naturally seeks from a masculine male, this security need forces her to provide that security for herself. Thus we have the commonality of cuckold and submissive men in westernized culture, while women do the bills, earn the money, make the decisions, authorize their husband’s actions and deliver punishments. The woman is seeking the security that the man she pair-bonded with cannot or will not provide.
It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized.
The primary problem men encounter with regard to their marriages is that the dominant, positively masculine Frame they should have established while single (and benefitting from competition anxiety) decays to a Beta mindset and the man abdicates authority and deference to his wife’s feminine primary Frame. This is presuming that dominant Frame ever existed while he was dating his wife. Most men experience this decay in three ways:
- A decline to his wife’s Frame via his relinquishing an authority he isn’t comfortable embracing.
- An initial belief in a misguided egalitarian ideal that redefines masculinity has him surrender Frame
- He was so pre-whipped by a lifetime of Blue Pill Beta conditioning he already expects to live within a woman’s Frame
Of these, the last is the most direct result of an upbringing within a feminine-primary Frame. I think one of the most vital realizations a Red Pill man has to consider is how Red Pill truths and his awareness of them influences the meta-dynamic of raising and instructing subsequent generations.
As I’ve intoned in many a post, Hypergamy is both pragmatic and rooted in a survival-level doubt about its optimization. When a woman’s insecurity about her life-determining Hypergamous decisions are concretely answered by the positively, conventionally, masculine Man who is both her pair-bonded husband and the father of her children, that doubt is allayed and a gender-complementary environment for raising children proceeds from that security.
In a positively masculine dominant Frame, where that woman’s desire is primarily focused on her man, (and where that man’s SMV exceeds his wife’s by at least a factor of 1) this establishes at least a tenable condition of quieting a woman’s Hypergamous doubt about the man she’s consolidated monogamy and parental investment with.
In a condition where that husband is unable or unwilling (thanks to egalitarian beliefs) to establish his dominant Frame this leaves a woman’s Hypergamous doubt as the determinant of the health of the overall family. That doubt and the insecurities that extend from Hypergamous selection set the tone for educating any children that result from it.
In the last post I made the case that deliberately single, primarily female, parents arrogantly assume they can teach a child both masculine and feminine aspects equally well. In the case where a wife/mother assumes the headship of family authority, both she and the Frame abdicating father/husband reverse this conventional gender modeling for their children.
That woman’s dominant Frame becomes the reality not just her husband must enter, but also their children, and also their family relatives. That feminine dominant Frame is one that is predicated on the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamous doubts.
“Is he really the best she can do?”
Play Don’t Pay had an observation from the last post:
I think this “putting the kids first” phenomenon is very simple to explain. She DOESN’T WANT TO FUCK YOU!
She is using the kids as a shield, a barrier to deflect your UNWANTED BETA SEXUAL ADVANCES.
It is generally accepted that women are only interested in the top 20% of men, and if you are talking about as marriage partners I would agree with this.
However if you are talking about as SEX partners that they are genuinely hot for I would estimate this percentage to be north of 5% add in the frame required to maintain her SEXUAL interest in a marriage / LTR and your probably closer to 1-2%.
It’s really that simple! the women that are with these top tier men, the top 1-2% don’t need to be told to put them before the kids, they do it because he IS more important to her than her kids, because if he leaves she will never be able to replace him with another top tier man now she has his kids in tow.
Top tier men don’t raise other mens children and she knows this instinctively.
If you think you can mitigate this by being top 20% and reading a few articles on frame and dread game then I think you will be disappointed.
Sure you can improve your relationship but your probably not going to be able to command the visceral raw desire that women have for the top tier men that makes the do this shit naturally under their own violation.
“Is he really the best she can do?”
In a feminine-primary Frame, that question defines every aspect of that family’s life and development together. It’s important for Red Pill aware men to really meditate on that huge truth. If you do not set, and maintain, a dominant masculine Frame, if you do not accept you role in a conventional complementary relationship, that woman will feel the need to assume the responsibility for her own, and her children’s, security. Women’s psychological firmware predispose them to this on a visceral, limbic, species-survival level.
I’ve met with countless men making a Red Pill transition in life who’ve related stories about the burdening influence of their domineering mothers and Beta supplicating fathers leading to them being brought up to repeat that Blue Pill cycle. I’ve also counseled guys who were raised by their single mothers who had nothing but spite and resentment for the Alpha Asshole father who left her. They too took it upon themselves to be men who sacrifice their masculinity for equalism in order to never be like Dad the asshole. I’ve met with the guys whose mothers had divorced their dutiful fathers to bang their bad boy tingle generating boyfriends (whom they equally despised) and they too were molded by their mother’s Hypergamous decisions.
And this is what I’m trying to emphasize here; in all of these upbringing conditions it is the mother’s Hypergamous doubt that is the key motivating influence on her children. That lack of a father with a positive, strong, dominant Frame puts his children at risk of an upbringing based on that mother’s Hypergamous self-questioning doubt. Add to this the modern feminine-primary social order that encourages women’s utter blamelessness in acting upon this Hypergamous doubt and you can see how the cycle of creating weak, gender confused men and vapid entitled women perpetuates itself.
Finally, to the guys who are psychologically stuck on the shitty conditions they had to endure because of this cycle, to the men who are still dealing with how mommy fucked them up or daddy was a Beta; the best thing you can do is recognize the cycle I’ve illustrated for you here. That’s the first step. The Red Pill is great at getting you laid, but it’s much more powerful than that; it gives you the insight to see the influences that led to where you find yourself today.
Once you’ve recognized the Red Pill truths behind your Blue Pill conditioning, then it’s time to realign yourself, and recreate yourself in defiance to them. The longer you wallow in the self-pitiful condition that your mother’s Hypergamy and your father’s passive Beta-ness embedded in you, the longer you allow that Blue Pill schema to define who you are.
[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]
Great, as usual Rollo. You know, there will never be enough mentions of ” Frame “. Looking back, all of the influential men I’ve known had a strong frame and never relinquished it. One of my coworkers remarked once that I ” be sure to ask the girls to let me watch the game..”. I literally did not know what he was talking about. I think that for some, retaining frame ( or even establishing it ) is really hard. If you’re frameless to begin with it can seem to be an awful lot of work with the constant recalibrating… Read more »
And if you’re already a father: a key part of keeping and maintaining that Frame is to be a Dad. A Dad is not a Mom. And should not just be a second Mom. I would love to say I discovered this on top of a mountain, and came down to shout it at you soulless masses, but honestly I just lucked into it. Just started doing it literally from day 1 and never let up. I made lots of other mistakes (which is why I started hunting round these parts a few years back) but never slipped into being… Read more »
“The main reason women overwhelmingly prefer men older than themselves (statistically 5-7 years difference) is because of the psychological impression that men older than a woman’s age should be more established in his understanding of the world, his career, his direction in life and his mastery over himself and his conditions.” Used to hear people say that women with older men was due to girls maturing faster than boys. Biggest bunch of crap, unless they were talking about physically. Which they weren’t. I’ve long noticed that with every girl or woman that I’ve come across, when it came to entertaining… Read more »
This post forms the basis of the “Boyfriend Destroyer” game. The idea of telling a girl with a boyfriend or husband that “he sounds nice”…”I’m sure he puts you on a pedestal”… “You’re probably the best he could ever do…and so that’s why he treats you so special”… “It’s great to be with someone you see as such a great friend…”
This starts to flip the switch in a girl’s desire.
I love reading the family posts. The family has been destroyed by subsidizing men out of it via divorce rape, welfare systems, propaganda, ect… Men have to take back the definition of what a husband and father MUST be. Our civil society benefits from men being the primary. The Beta is always dangerous & a threat to civil society. That’s why Betas were historically conquered, castrated, enslaved, & outright wiped out. If you were strong then you got land, labor, & harems. Men before us figured that out long ago, and there is no way a world built by men… Read more »
If I had a dollar for every time I saw a clown mom like the one in your picture with a couple poorly behaved street urchins in tow, I’d be running for president and making offensive statements that the press loved to hate me for.
In most contemporary marriages…women tend to be the de facto authority. Men seek their wive’s “permission” While I know a lot of married Catholic guys who are way beta, nearly all are still pretty traditional about authority (in public at least) and thus wives usually defer to the husband. Only in areas of domesticated life (cooking, sewing, female-social stuff) do women generally act as an authority. If anything, women seem pissed off when husband won’t lead (not uncommon). It’s like a race to the bottom, everyone trying to avoid responsibility…and hence authority. Probably a difference with larger families, which truly… Read more »
Spot on and what I needed tonight, reinforcement about frame. This post and a few others I’ve read lately digging deep into the Rational Male archives is helping understand the consequences of the Red Pill as well as the critical need for a new frame I can live with. Frame was on my mind on my return home from traveling for a work conference. My on/off girlfriend wanted me to go over to her place tonight and texted me so. Replied I would try to be there early when she got off work, but let her knew I needed to… Read more »
Well played Roused.
Don’t know if you caught this one of Rollo’s essays before but it capsulizes what you just did esp. in the last three paragraphs below:
“The Red Pill is great at getting you laid, but it’s much more powerful than that; it gives you the insight to see the influences that led to where you find yourself today. Once you’ve recognized the Red Pill truths behind your Blue Pill conditioning, then it’s time to realign yourself, and recreate yourself in defiance to them.” This is what I call peeling back the layers of social conditioning. Why does a guy give a fuck what kind of car he drives? What neighborhood he lives in? What name is stamped on his clothing? I’m not advocating wearing dirty… Read more »
As men, we can never forget that govt has replaced us as the real authority in the home. All western women know that at any moment they can dial 911 and summon a swat team to keep their man in line. My marriage was destroyed 10 years ago after I was falsely accused of child abuse. (Told teen daughter to clean room; all hell broke lose!) My wife and daughter stood by and watched me get ruffed up and bullied by the police, who spent an hour instructing my family that I was not the head of household and had… Read more »
Wow. That sucks, but you’re correct. The govt is a threat because it can use force to inflict its authority.
If you know the cops have been called, get out of the house and drive away. If you can, take all cell phones and make the woman leave if she wants to call the cops from the neighbor. You still need to drive away from the house. On the fastest road available. Keep your cell and keep it on. You want the cops to call you and activate your locator so that they know that you are driving away. After five min. turn off your cell and take back streets. The cops should be gone after a couple of hours.… Read more »
@Rollo As for the subject at hand, there’s a billboard up near where I live for one of the local motorcycle dealers. Pics of a couple new bikes with the words “Your wife called and said it’s OK!” in big letters. Even in my most Blue Pill days, I found the idea of asking a wife for “permission” for something offensive. Now? Seeing a sign like that makes me want to beat the shit out of every guy that says “Ha ha, that’s totally my marriage!” Fuck everyone that’s worked together to make that sign the zeitgeist, and fuck every… Read more »
@Rollo Thanks for this article. While the bulk of it does not reflect my experience (hypergamous mom or beta dad) I know plenty of people for whom this does apply and I think it’s a good message. The one issue I took was from early in the piece when you said, “… and he ought to be ready to settle into a coequal parental ‘partnership’ when she’s finally ready to do the right thing.” The “right thing” here seems to imply a moral judgement. It’s a hard truth, but it’s one I learned here; Sexual strategy is amoral. I don’t… Read more »
I’ve employed the plate spinning philosophy so long I’ve forgotten what its like doing the LTR thing, so help me out Rollo (and others)- how does a man in an LTR / marriage defend his frame? Assuming a man has fully repudiated BluePill schemas and is thus squared away, how can he defend his lifestyle from inevitable assaults by FI enabled society on the same- without resorting to pathologically harmful expressions of dark triad behaviors? Sure a man can hold frame in his spouses presence and against her shit tests , but once the sun comes up and he’s away… Read more »
I like posts going into more details about Frame because it is an abstract concept that I struggle with. That is a bit problematic because it seems to be the most important concept in Red Pill. It doesn’t seem one can just reduce Frame to “Invariably do whatever you want to do”, although doing what one wants to do without asking for permission and without apologising after is part of it. For Men that are in LTRs they entered prior to learning about Frame like me, I think it is even harder. I know in my case due to some… Read more »
While you have frame, she has Uncle Sam. Guess who wins?
Rollo, I really enjoyed this post, thank you. I think it’s one of the best one’s you’ve done in a long time. I am a happily married woman (I am subscribed to your newsletter, that’s how I find your new material). My husband is pretty great but he is not the richest guy or the fittest guy around. But he does a really, really good job maintaining what you refer to as dominant frame. And that is definitely what attracted me to him. It’s his world, and I’m living in it. That feels safe. This was not true with my… Read more »
Shout it from the mountaintop Rollo! Pay attention men considering marriage: Not falling into the feminine frame also means 1) Not “asking” her to marry you, and 2) for God’s sake not getting down on 1 knee to “propose.” I think “poor dumb sap” whenever I see that. I speak with the zeal of the converted. I was reared beta as they come. Fortunately I dicovered red pill and cast off that yoke. I didn’t “ask” my wife to marry me. I said “I want you to become my wife” during a nice, unplanned moment together (I had decided already.)… Read more »
One more thought.
Don’t do any special thing when you tell your girl you want her to be your wife. I’ve noticed a correlation between elaborate blue pill marriage proposals and being hauled to divorce court and ass-raped.
It occurred to me while reading this how tightly bound frame is to not having oneitis. Any man with oneitis will simply not be able to maintain frame. It is simply impossible. If your new to this and dating some chick and trying to figure out how to run tight game because you know “she’s the one”, then you better back up a few more steps because you can’t see the forest for the trees yet. Go read the posts one oneitis. That needs to be the very next beast you kill. I think we also sometimes loose frame because… Read more »
This explains something I’d had a hard time understanding. I was trying to explain to some BP and feminist females in long term relationships (with and without children) that when the kids come along, despite any bonding, I want to put Jon first. My reasoning was: children benefit from good fathers more than from coddling, only infants need your constant undivided physical contact and attention, reproduction-wise a sickly or dead baby can be replaced, whereas without my husband there would be no more babies. Now, I hope it never comes to a life-vs-life choice. I want to keep my children… Read more »
Hi Superslaviswife – while I completely get where you are coming from, I think it’s just a really incendiary topic. You may not have taken this approach, but some women who take this position really emphasize how much MORE important to them their husband is than their children. And I think that emphasis really gets under people’s skin. For me personally, when I think about it it makes me upset because I felt like my step-father (mother was widowed) was much more important to her than I was, and it was very painful. Other people bring their own baggage to… Read more »
Definitely. 🙂 And I think it also helps our future family that we both really want children. Had I settled with a man who never once mentioned kids, or got pregnant and roped him into it, the balance would be harder. Instead, I’m with a man who mentioned his desire to reproduce before we even expressed interest in each other and made it clear from the start of the relationship that by 30 he wanted his first child. I have no doubt that Jon will also be working towards keeping the family united and happy. If you try and put… Read more »
your feel for imagery complimenting your posts is so spot on.
this one nails it on so many levels.
[…] email@example.com (VD) Rollo explains the construction of the Gamma male:I’ve met with countless men making a Red Pill transition in life who’ve related stories […]
@ Skid Rowe 12:30AM
I’m very sorry for you. How fucked up can a woman be to call the cops on her husband AND THEN lose respect for him because he didn’t “stand up” to them? In other words, because he didn’t get himself killed.
Nice in theory Rollo. But the only reason the top guys maintain frame is the wife or girlfriend does not want to blow up a good thing. Tell all this to guy making 45000 a year with a working wife and her gov thugs and he would just shake his head.
I would wager that a non-negligible percentage of cops become cops so they can white knight for “abused” women.
how the heck can you literally resist society’s influence?
It is possible. In short, you become her Rock and in doing that, you also become her herd. It’s often called Team Her-Man.
I used to have an extremely strong frame with my wife, but it’s really slipped. She now very clearly sees me as a beta and shit tests me constantly. On top of this, I just discovered I have low testosterone. When I try to push myself back into my more alpha frame, I find that I don’t “have the stomach for it.” I suspect that’s a symptom of the low T, but it’s been very tough to push through. I’ve become too emotional lol.
Exactly. And every single one of them thinks he’s doing the right thing. They fully embrace the blue pill definition of a good man. Funny. I wonder if that’s why cop uniforms are always blue. 🙂
If you do that, you may as well drive straight to your lawyer.
“They didn’t get it. Even the ones without children got angry that my husband needed to come first. And now I see why.”
Is it just me or is the idea of women overtly accepting/stating RP principles on here strange/weird? It almost doesn’t seem genuine or there’s a sense of it being done for an unnatural reason. It’s kind of the opposite of “just getting it” for men.
I thought that too, at first. Then, I realized that not giving your woman the red pill is at this stage in society will only cause allow her blue pill friends free reign to fool her head with nonsense. Since she grew up SWPL, she had a very blue pill perspective. This caused her to constantly compete for frame despite the fact she more or less approached me with romantic interest (strong hamster). I considered our common interests, beliefs, and life goals, so I decided to invest the time to deprogram her. It wasn’t easy, and the fact that I… Read more »
>that man’s SMV exceeds his wife’s by at least a factor of 1
A “factor” is a multiplicative constant, that sentence makes no sense.
Anyway. Consuming male on female porn is pleasuring yourself while watching other man fuck a girl you desire. So isn’t kids sexually grown with a normalizing cuckhold mindset?
“Is it just me or is the idea of women overtly accepting/stating RP principles on here strange/weird?”
Kind of like guys marching in slut walks. haha. I think they probably just love men. Too bad we can’t test how hypergamically satisfied with their husbands they really are. 🙂
Andy – are you implying there is something wrong with it? I do love men. I have never had a man-hating streak in me. However, I don’t hate women either, and I strive for balance.
@Bromeo Is it just me or is the idea of women overtly accepting/stating RP principles on here strange/weird? It almost doesn’t seem genuine or there’s a sense of it being done for an unnatural reason. It’s kind of the opposite of “just getting it” for men. Women are fully capable of reasoning out anything a man might be able to reason out. The problem with most modern women is they don’t question their premises first, and as a result use that reasoning power for tremendous feats of fallacious thinking. If you’ll notice, the ladies commenting here and on the previous… Read more »
@SJF Thank you for the link reference, had not read that. It’s a perfect post from Rollo and the timing couldn’t be better. Now I need to disengage for a few days and then work the subtle. Self mastery does seem to be the key with this. Fortunately I’m working this from many angles. It’s not just a on pronged approach to my girlfriend, but includes mastery over compulsive decisions, alcohol, weed, sex and self pleasure. It’s a big bundle that is all tied together and must be addressed holistically in order for me to find success and create this… Read more »
“Andy – are you implying there is something wrong with it? I do love men.”
Absolutely not. I love women too. There’s a lot of men here that could make you a very happy woman ;-). Is that what you like about being here?
This is a better link than the one I left above. I mistakenly linked to the search page rather than the actual article.
Can what hypergamy seeks be summed up in the word “Leadership” ? Or, is it more than that?
I would say one word would be “Game”
Are tattoos and piercings on married women an expression of contempt for beta husbands?
@SD October 1st, 2015 at 1:43 am “I’ve employed the plate spinning philosophy so long I’ve forgotten what its like doing the LTR thing, so help me out Rollo (and others)- how does a man in an LTR / marriage defend his frame?” I can speak to that. Based on my demographic.You just do it. Blaximus and Anonymous Reader lately have spelled this out perfectly in spirit recently. Those guys are wise. You carry on as a man and don’t complain with inner strength according to Blaximus. (What Blaximus doesn’t say is that he personally has tremendous inner strength, skills… Read more »
Game is kind of a beautiful thing when you step back and look at it. Women have evolved to be attracted to the things that make a man successful, but not necessarily the success itself. The more you develop as a man socially and internally the more attractive you become. It gives you a new appreciation for women. At the same time it’s impossible not to understand game and realize that women are simply the rewards of greatness. Maybe even the enablers of greatness. But they never have been and never will be the source of greatness. It is an… Read more »
Rewards is I think slightly off as a term there. Rewards often are the motivation for something, they are the incentive that is set in place to motivate people towards something. While it’s certainly worthwhile to make women the reward for learning game/going out/etc… it shouldn’t be the reason you make yourself great. “Award” might be more accurate, since awards are unexpected and “cherry on top” things that typically are given to those people with significant achievements. Women are more like the awards of masculinity/greatness, not rewards.
Hmm, yeah maybe. But like have you had sex before? Turning a woman into a starry eyed satiated puddle and having them look up at you like a God is the best thing in the world.
I have been reading this site for quite a while and have always been impressed with the quality of the articles and the clarity with which the message is conveyed. Much better than any site out there IMO. It’s been quite the eye-opener being exposed to the Red Pill; it’s amazing how much it changes your perspective. The biggest thing I’ve noticed is how easy it is now to pick out FI garbage in the media that I would have just glossed over before and not really paid much attention to. A perfect example: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brides-dad-stops-wedding-so-stepdad-can-walk-down-the-aisle-too_560ac699e4b0768126ff4f2b The old me would have… Read more »
@Seaman, I’ve been holding that story for the last post in this series. It is a prime example of the culmination of women’s sexual strategy. Not just social praise, but a reverence for the two men who embody both sides of the Hypergamous equation. It would be easy to poke fun and call it what it is, AF/BB, but the social narrative illustrates so much more. The deeper dots that none of the commenters dare connect is that these men’s examples illustrate the degree to which feminine-centric social dominance controls social consciousness. This is Open Hypergamy in it’s most vulgar… Read more »
Better to have a solid frame and maintain it even after you marry that try to develop one after the ring’s gone on. She’ll fight tooth and nail if she’s been in the dominant position for any length of time. Handle it wrong and you’ll quickly find out how little power you have, be prepared to walk away. The problem is maintaining a strong frame, it’s like being a rock on the beach, you’re constantly being ground down by waves, wind, sand and lesser rocks in the surf. Most of us who have married, myself included, have been ground down… Read more »
@Andy Hmm, yeah maybe. But like have you had sex before? Turning a woman into a starry eyed satiated puddle and having them look up at you like a God is the best thing in the world. Sure, but if the “promise” of sex or such memorable interaction with women were the reason I made myself into an science geek/engineer, I wouldn’t be doing this stuff in my down time with no plates available. There would be no Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Mark Zuckerberg if that were the general case. They’re not a “reward” they’re a *hint-hint-wink-wink-coughcough-expected-coughcough* “award” for… Read more »
@SJF I sincerely appreciate you trying to help but “Just do it” is only marginally more helpful than the Red Pill reviled “Just be yourself” in this context. It seems like it is good advice – for anyone who doesn’t need it! I personally can’t see how that kind of advice helps anyone who would need advice. It is particularly jarring for someone that is seriously lacking in experience, married to the first and only LTR. I think a good thing about Athol’s early stuff is that he doesn’t “get it” as naturally as some of you do, so some… Read more »
The military has morale and leave for a reason. If people work all the time with no relief, fatigue will kill more people then enemy fire. So it seems to go for men. We can be “The Rock” , but that solidarity comes at a price. Not only is society trying to break down a man like that, but so is his woman. We know Hypergamy is never satisfied. If so much as one shit test is failed at any point in the relationship , she’ll be shopping for a better deal whether it exists or not. It equates to… Read more »
@The Ronin My father recently passed away. He was blue pill to the end. My mother was trying to figure out how to get rid of all his shit before he had even passed. A week after the funeral you wouldn’t know an old man had recently left the building. Before he died, he was looking at old pictures with a lot of regret. One of them is in his early 20’s. You can see the optimism and joy in his eyes. By the end he was a broken man who also couldn’t recognize himself. At the end of his… Read more »
Slaviswife: “This explains something I’d had a hard time understanding. I was trying to explain to some BP and feminist females in long term relationships (with and without children) that when the kids come along, despite any bonding, I want to put Jon first.”
I’m sure you believe this right now. Check back in after you actually have children and we’ll see.
It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized. Yeah, well, I did the very opposite of that when I got married, unfortunately, so I have been taking steps to wrest it back. Occasionally I would get frustrated enough to push back, but overall by far I ceded Frame. Hell, I didn’t have a Frame to friggin’ cede. So, what have I been doing? Well, sometimes I have been overt in my complaints, and that has not gone well, although I… Read more »
@Is This Thing On?
“My mother was trying to figure out how to get rid of all his shit before he had even passed. A week after the funeral you wouldn’t know an old man had recently left the building. ”
Dutchman -“are tattoos and piercings on married women an expression of contempt for beta husbands?” I payed for my wife’s first tattoo not too long after we married. Her ex hated them, but I have several and she expressed interest. She picked it out online, and I arranged everything including introducing her to my artist. When it was almost done I made a comment about how she’s now forever marked as mine (since I paid) and both women (tattoo artist is female) looked at each other and my wife giggled. However, every time she shows someone she adds that “it… Read more »
Can what hypergamy seeks be summed up in the word “Leadership” ? Or, is it more than that? Leadership definitely is a huge component of it. Couple that with lack of fear and the two, will cover more of it. I still think something is missing though. I think being a leader of men and being a leader of woman are going to be different. I’ve read about men being excellent leaders of other men who then buckle with women. Which is why I reference fear. I think hypergamy seeks a man who doesn’t give a flying flip over her… Read more »
@IAS, I apologize if I sounded trite. What I mean is there is good actionable red pill and game advice out there and if you believe it and employ it (what I call following a script) it is valuable on the path to giving you Real Power. Sorry. I am and idealist. I am sorely judgemental. I have skill-sets. But you and any other guy have a lot of potential. I followed the script. Athol Kay’s “Mindful Attraction Plan” (skip his other stuff), Aaron Clarey, Jack Donovan, Nassim Taleb, Ian Ironwood. They all have good advice and a loose script.… Read more »
IAS – I’ll second what SJF wrote above. Athols early work opened my eyes and gave me a place to start, but TRM and a few other blogs are where the real meat and potatoes are. Running a MAP is key, but if you don’t understand WHY it works you’ll never master any of it. Game isn’t a paper pushing job. You can’t just follow a script. You have to write the script yourself, and you can’t do that unless you understand what makes a great story.
I did see that article and was nauseated by it too. It was excerpted on an aggregator site I read, and not one single comment indicated the least bit of RP awareness. All a bunch off weepy manginas cooing over the “generosity” of the father.
On losing frame one in a relationship. I’ve seen so many men voluntarily drop frame and adopt the woman’s because “it’s time to grow up” or similar.
Insane that “growing up” means deferring to someone else instead of stepping into increased responsibility. They think that acting as “another child” is the ultimate “growing up”. So twisted.
“There would be no Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Mark Zuckerberg if that were the general case. ”
Good point. I’ve never changed the world like that. So maybe that’s the best feeling in the world. Regardless, let’s just celebrate the fact that women are adorable shiny things that exist solely for our enjoyment!
Still reading here, Rollo. You’ve been on a hell of a roll lately.
Good work. And Thanks.
Good to know Deti, don’t be a stranger.
@ITTO It occurred to me while reading this how tightly bound frame is to not having oneitis. Any man with oneitis will simply not be able to maintain frame. It is simply impossible. This is why the reasonable reaction a man should have is to spin plates to develop an abundance mentality. With an abundance mentality, oneitis no longer has a chance to take hold. The only problem I’m having with it personally is that all I can manage to spin are shitty plates, as there aren’t many good options around here so far and I’ll be damned if I’m… Read more »
SD – “You cant rest, because if you even accidentally fail a shit test- Game Over. ” I struggle with that reality. What I have come to understand is that to the rock 24/7 you must be like a rock. That is cold, hard, rough, and unfeeling. What that means is you can’t ever allow yourself to develope oneitis, or be invested in a relationship to the point you can’t simply and walk away. And that the core attribute of frame, others exist in your frame, and they remain not only by their choice, but by your permission. You permit… Read more »
Rollo, My thoughts exactly. What got me so much about this article is the gusto with which everyone verbally fellates the real dad and the stepdad for being such great guys and “real men”. Barf. You literally have grown men commenting saying that they cried or are tearing up from reading this article, which is the equivalent to me of a guy telling me he cried watching a Sex and the City episode. Man card revoked. What’s funny is how if you aren’t on guard you just mindlessly read this sewage and it starts to seem “normal”, which I’m sure… Read more »
Jesus H, is that John Wayne Gacy in his clown makeup holding that kid? Call Child Protective Services, and quick….
SJF and Ted: It is also clear that this is just easier for some people than others, by nature or nurture (the physical shape part in particular has a strong genetic component, and things like abundance mentality are easier to internalise for those with more experience). I can’t really complain myself as I think I have things way better than many I read about since joining the community. It is daunting to have to maintain eternal vigilance in all aspects of my life, some of which aren’t even under my control. I’m not necessarily wishing it was easier (which won’t… Read more »
Neither of those two dudes disgusts me as much as the paradigm itself. They are just two blue-pill dudes acting as rationally as they can while still plugged in. I still can’t quite figure out how we got here. I guess it’s just been a long progressive slide into oblivion. I think that is the true definition of progressive.
Women will always put themselves first if given the freedom to do so. They don’t sacrifice like we do. Need proof? Check out this article of a mother putting herself first. Sick shit!
“When we make the switch from understanding love as a feeling that has value (it doesn’t)”
I don’t agree with that completely. I think it’s possible to love from a place of abundance. It just isn’t an obsessive focused jealous love(which is probably what you mean). More like a spread out general love of women and the things that make each of them unique.
Isn’t it amusing that they don’t want to have all of one man’s love focused on them? It all fits into the bigger picture.
You’re right, they are just following their blue pill programming, and it’s so ingrained that they can’t even process their own descent into humiliation hell. Even the alpha real dad, who I presume to be somewhat alpha by his body language, status, and the balls to just stop the ceremony on a whim, willingly invites another man into the spotlight to “share” his daughter with him?!? What rational male (see what I did there) would do such a thing? That’s like inviting your wife’s ex to come over on your honeymoon and saying “ya know, you’ve been there for her… Read more »
@ Andy You misunderstand. Love as a feeling is of no value. For example the nice guy orbiter who pines away for some chick has feelings indeed but unless accompanied by actions or tangible, visible and valuable behaviors those feelings are of no value. If those feeling don’t express in the right actions and behaviors then what is the point? Another example: a cunt who beats hr children and yet genuinely loves them might as well have nothing but hate for them. The feelings are not expressed in a valuable or positive way. Love, of the valuable sort, is something… Read more »
@Skid Rowe, anytime I go into the mechanics of modern marriage and monogamy I anticipate the MGTOW default response of “You can’t out-Alpha the state.” I get that. I know that any time I go about analyzing parenting or Red Pill applications in marriage it’s like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. A husband is only one phone call away from the Gestapo breaking down his door and dragging him off to what will be debtors prison. I agree, and guess what? It’s only getting worse, and not just for married men; 12 year old boys are being persecuted… Read more »
Your response to @Skid Rowe could have been another blog post. Seriously.
“Love, of the valuable sort, is something you do not something you feel.”
I don’t get it. Like what would be an example of something you do?
I don’t need any proof. I’m putting that story out there so others understand. Rollo has covered this stuff in spades. His end of life post preceded my fathers death by a couple of months. I saw everything he wrote about come to pass and more.
Unless you die a sudden and tragic death that comes out of nowhere, you will likely physically fall apart before your spouse. Hypergamy will kick in. You will die alone. Get used to the idea and find a way to go out like a soldier.
Rollo – ” Strong, positively masculine Frame control accounts for exactly this Sword of Damocles in applying it. There are women who hold their men in such high esteem that the thought of calling the cops on him never enters her mind. Dread can be such a motivating factor that women will repeatedly return to an unfaithful cad or an abusive lover.” Precisely. ” Dating “, for lack of a better descriptive, is a time period of examining a prospective females receptiveness to accepting your frame. I’m hesitant to go too far in prescribing that men incorporate a Threat component… Read more »
@Andy I’d agree with Bp on this, and I’d have to say that what you do out of love is long term. Being faithful, being consistent, rewarding good behaviors and punishing bad within reason. I was a child of a woman that claimed to love me soooo much yet psychologically, emotionally, and physically abused me every moment I was anything other than a perfectly behaved little beta. It warped my views of what love should look like: moments of somebody hugging you and saying they loved you followed by months and months of berating, slapping, insulting, and threatening for the… Read more »
hah, the chick in the Huffpo article is fat.
Don’t look at me like that, that article deserves a low-brow response.
@ Andy I care very about what I do, or you do as an expression of love. I care greatly about what they do. I would say if the woman in your life is keeping the bullshit to a minimum, obviously trying to maintain her appearance, doing things for you with a good attitude, and not talking smack about you behind your back then you’re doing pretty good. And in that case who cares what feelings motivate that behavior? On the other hand if you woman is eternally depressive, combative, talks smack about you to her friends and family, never… Read more »
“It’s the lump sum of all those little actions truly driven by actually giving a shit about the other person and their contribution to your life that constitutes love as an action.”
Okay, I see what you’re saying. I agree with that too. Still though, do you agree that actually loving women with full knowledge of what they are could improve your game?
Associate Divorce Editor, The Huffington Post
Not just a divorce editor, she’s just an associate. I’d hate to meet the chief.
@Is This Thing On?
When you’re skydiving, if you’ve got your eyes open you can get a good, long, clear look at where you’re headed. But, you’re also going so fast that the only evidence you’re descending is the wind, which might be mistaken for any strong wind really. It isn’t obvious your doom is approaching until you’re about to hit bottom. Hopefully your chute opens.
Check this out. #6 is a gem.
@ Blaximus Ha I didn’t even notice the “Divorce Editor” title. What else would you expect though from a lib-tard trash mag like that. @ Jeremy The girl being fat just completes the Feminine Imperative cliches. I love the choice of pictures as well. They make sure to use the ones where the real dad is dragging the beta simp up there, tears in his eyes and just drenched in weakness. “Hey cuck, I’ll allow you to be a part of this. Get up here.” It’s like a neg on steroids, or nuclear warhead neg. Real dad for the win,… Read more »
@ben … After my wife told me she was pregnant with someone else’s child, I made a vow to raise the unborn child as my own. In the beginning, she was on board. Later, the harder I tried, the quicker she’d run back to the other man. Then one day, the best couples therapist money could buy asked her, ‘Do you want to make it work?’ Her answer was no. That was the moment I realised I’d done everything I could to save the marriage. Poor guy didn’t realize he’d already lost, long before she even got pregnant by another… Read more »
@Rollo. This is Open Hypergamy in it’s most vulgar expression – two men, Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks, being praised for their oblivious participation in one woman’s optimized Hypergamous schema. These men are called ‘courageous’ for doing so, but they simply don’t see their complicity in the ugly underbelly of the plan they’ve been pawns in. Curious what you guys would think of the story if it were Moms instead of the Dads. I know the Dad gives the bride away, but what if was a bridal dance with the son scenario? Heroin addict Mom abandons the family, Dad remarries,… Read more »
Both mothers would never be present at the wedding. They’d be too busy sabotaging the bride.
Stingray I think being a leader of men and being a leader of woman are going to be different. I’ve read about men being excellent leaders of other men who then buckle with women. Have seen this, I”m thinking of a now retired Army officer, combat vet who is very motivating by example even to men no where near his chain of command. Also quite a blue beta around his wife. It is likely a case of his romantic, deep South upbringing where Ladies were Ladies. Unfortunately his wife isn’t from the South… Which is why I reference fear. I… Read more »
Yeah, I’m not sure otherwise what to say to the two dads at the wedding. The emotional moment they’re pulling is total capitulation/victory for the women. Doesn’t matter how alpha the original dad was, he’s essentially validating the choice of his ex-wife with that move, and her choice was to blow up her family.
Basically he’s totally capitulating to the FI and saying, “Here you go ladies, divorce all you want, we’ll give you your emotional backrub just the same.” ugh.. just all around gross.
I had that backwards. The Heroin addict mom would get the mom that raised the kid to dance because the birth mom would be tops.
Wonder who paid for the wedding.
badpainter Another example: a cunt who beats hr children and yet genuinely loves them might as well have nothing but hate for them. The feelings are not expressed in a valuable or positive way. The woman who emotionally and verbally abuses her family one day, then tries to make up for it by being nicey nicey for a few days later, only start ramping back up to another abusive tirade likewise. Love, of the valuable sort, is something you do not something you feel. The BluePill tells us otherwise because it justifies all sorts of mental gymnastics that serve the… Read more »
Uh, that’d be the new groom of course, though payments are deferred until hypergamy looks to trade-in.
@ Atticus If the situation were the same with two moms it wouldn’t carry the same weight. Throughout history women have cooperated to raise children, it’s in their nature to do so. If you spend enough time around mothers they all share this Borg-like collective mindset to ooh and ahh over each other’s babies and care for each other’s children. How many times have you seen men say “Hey dude what a cute kid, can I hold him? Oh he’s wet here lemme change him for you, he’s so adorable..” Yeah doesn’t happen. On the norm, men usually only give… Read more »
Love my Mom. But that is so fucking true. If I heard it once, I heard I 100 times from my stbx, “to your Mom, no woman is good enough for her sons.l
@Seaman. You are talking about babies. Mom abandoning kids and showing up at he wedding? Hahahah. Not happening. (I’m not saying the Alpaha dad in the original story left his kids. They never give the back story).
My point was that the Dads are celebrated, one of the Moms In My scenario would have been vilified.
@SS If the situation were the same with two moms it wouldn’t carry the same weight. Throughout history women have cooperated to raise children, it’s in their nature to do so. It is easy to cooperate when you possess the same abilities as those you are cooperating with. Why should one woman be jealous of the fruit of another woman’s womb when she has the same power? It is absurdly easy for women (who aren’t so stupid was to wait until age 40) to get themselves a kid. There’s probably no element of society that has such a natural abundance… Read more »
@Atticus I see your point. It’s hard to compare the scenarios apples to apples cuz we don’t really know the backstory, plus it’s men and women so it would really be more like comparing apples and bowling balls. What the point was is that the Dads are celebrated because they are fulfilling the Female Imperative perfectly, and it’s so ingrained into the social consciousness that they are called “real men” for doing so. There’s no Male Imperative that the Moms would be meeting. That would be an act that benefits them only and the son for their own emotional jollies… Read more »
Great post Rollo. Here is another way of keeping frame according to Cesar Milan. (I love #3). 1, You need to be even more calm-assertive. Dogs will not follow unstable energy. This is even truer of alpha dogs, who will try to correct what they see as unbalanced behavior. This is why, when dealing with a dominant dog, you have to be even calmer and more assertive than normally. If you’re anxious or nervous, your dog will sense this, and a dominant dog will see it as their cue to take charge. On the other hand, if you are calm… Read more »
@Jeremy. “Two moms at a wedding is ridiculous on it’s face…”
Only because one them wouldn’t allow it. Two dads would be expected.
You both are correct that it’s a gushy article because it supports the FI.
@Rollo – Another amazing post! This one is hitting home in a major way. Thank you for what you do.
I want to thank all of the commenters here for such an amazing space filled with knowledge from intelligent and articulate men. I’ve learned so much already. Can’t thank you all enough.