Hypergamy Knows Best

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One of the most basic Red Pill principles I’ve stressed since I began writing is the importance of Frame. The dynamic of Frame stretches into many aspects of a man’s life, but in a strictly intergender sense this applies to men establishing a positive dominance in their relationships with women. In a dating context of non-exclusivity (plate spinning) this means, as a man, you have a solid reality into which that woman wants to be included in. Holding Frame is not about force, or coercion, it’s about attraction and desire and a genuine want on the part of a woman to be considered for inclusion into that man’s reality.

Being allowed into a man’s dominant, confident Frame should be a compliment to that woman’s self-perception. It should be a prize she seeks.

This is a pretty basic principle when you think about it. The main reason women overwhelmingly prefer men older than themselves (statistically 5-7 years difference) is because of the psychological impression that men older than a woman’s age should be more established in his understanding of the world, his career, his direction in life and his mastery over himself and his conditions. From an Alpha Fucks perspective, the ambience of mastery makes an older man preferable, while a Beta Bucks older man represents the prospect of dependable provisioning.

In our contemporary sexual marketplace I think this perception – which used to hold true in a social climate based on the old set of books – is an increasing source of disappointment for women as they move from their post-college party years into the more stressful Epiphany Phase.

And once again we also see evidence of yet another conflict between egalitarianism vs. complementarity. Because all things should be equalized, equalism espouses that this age preference should make no difference in attraction, yet the influence of this natural complementary attraction becomes a source of internal conflict.

Women’s self-perception of personal worth becomes wrapped up in a tight egotistical package that’s tells her men – the men she’s convinced she deserves – should be attracted to and aroused by her based on whatever nebulous personal conviction she has, fat-acceptance approved ideas of what men should be hot for, and he ought to be ready to settle into a coequal parental ‘partnership’ when she’s finally ready to do the right thing.

It’s an interesting paradox. On one hand she’s expects a Hypergamously better than equitable pairing with a self-made man who will magically appreciate her for her self-perceptions of her own personal worth, but also to be, as Sheryl Sandberg puts it, “someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.” In other words, an exceptional, high SMV man, with a self-earned world and Frame she wants to partake of; but also one who will be so smitten by her intrinsic qualities (the qualities she hopes will compensate for her physical and personal deficits) that he will compromise the very Frame that made him worthy of her intimacy, and then reduce himself to an equality that lessens him to her.

The Red Pill Father – Frame

The reason I’m going into this is because of a basic tenet of Frame: The Frame you set in the beginning of your relationship will set the tone for the future of that relationship. That isn’t to say men don’t devolve from a strong Alpha frame to a passive Beta one, but the Frame you enter into a relationship with will be the mental impression that woman retains as it develops. Your establishment and maintenance of a strong control of Frame is not just imperative to a healthy relationship and interaction with a woman, but it’s also vital to the health of any family environment and the upbringing of any children that result from it.

At the Man In Demand conference I was asked about my thoughts on the influence family plays in conditioning boys/men to accept a Beta role in life. Mainly the question was about a mother’s dominant influence on her children’s upbringing and how an unconventional shift in intersexual hierarchies predisposes her to imprinting her Hypergamous insecurities onto her children. It gave me a lot to think about.

A common thread I’ve occasionally found with newly Red Pill aware men is the debilitating influence their domineering mothers and Beta supplicating fathers played in forming their distorted perception of masculinity. I made an attempt to address this influence in the Intersexual Hierarchies posts, however, I intended those essays to provide an outline of particular hierarchical models, not really to cover the individual health or malaise of any of them.

From Frame:

The default pedestalization of women that men are prone to is a direct result of accepting that a woman’s frame is the only frame. It’s kind of hard for most ‘plugged in’ men to grasp that they can and should exert frame control in order to establish a healthy future relationship. This is hardly a surprise considering that every facet of their social understanding about gender frame has always defaulted to the feminine for the better part of their lifetimes. Whether that was conditioned into them by popular media or seeing it played out by their beta fathers, for most men in western culture, the feminine reality IS the normalized frame work. In order to establish a healthy male-frame, the first step is to rid themselves of the preconception that women control frame by default. They don’t, and honestly, they don’t want to.

Post LTR Frame
In most contemporary marriages and LTR arrangements, women tend to be the de facto authority. Men seek their wive’s “permission” to attempt even the most mundane activities they’d do without an afterthought while single. I have married friends tell me how ‘fortunate’ they are to be married to such an understanding wife that she’d “allow” him to watch hockey on their guest bedroom TV,…occasionally.

These are just a couple of gratuitous examples of men who entered into marriage with the frame firmly in control of their wives. They live in her reality, because anything can become normal. What these men failed to realize is that frame, like power, abhors a vacuum.  In the absence of the frame security a woman naturally seeks from a masculine male, this security need forces her to provide that security for herself. Thus we have the commonality of cuckold and submissive men in westernized culture, while women do the bills, earn the money, make the decisions, authorize their husband’s actions and deliver punishments. The woman is seeking the security that the man she pair-bonded with cannot or will not provide.

It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized.

The primary problem men encounter with regard to their marriages is that the dominant, positively masculine Frame they should have established while single (and benefitting from competition anxiety) decays to a Beta mindset and the man abdicates authority and deference to his wife’s feminine primary Frame. This is presuming that dominant Frame ever existed while he was dating his wife. Most men experience this decay in three ways:

  • A decline to his wife’s Frame via his relinquishing an authority he isn’t comfortable embracing.
  • An initial belief in a misguided egalitarian ideal that redefines masculinity has him surrender Frame
  • He was so pre-whipped by a lifetime of Blue Pill Beta conditioning he already expects to live within a woman’s Frame

Of these, the last is the most direct result of an upbringing within a feminine-primary Frame. I think one of the most vital realizations a Red Pill man has to consider is how Red Pill truths and his awareness of them influences the meta-dynamic of raising and instructing subsequent generations.

As I’ve intoned in many a post, Hypergamy is both pragmatic and rooted in a survival-level doubt about its optimization. When a woman’s insecurity about her life-determining Hypergamous decisions are concretely answered by the positively, conventionally, masculine Man who is both her pair-bonded husband and the father of her children, that doubt is allayed and a gender-complementary environment for raising children proceeds from that security.

In a positively masculine dominant Frame, where that woman’s desire is primarily focused on her man, (and where that man’s SMV exceeds his wife’s by at least a factor of 1) this establishes at least a tenable condition of quieting a woman’s Hypergamous doubt about the man she’s consolidated monogamy and parental investment with.

In a condition where that husband is unable or unwilling (thanks to egalitarian beliefs) to establish his dominant Frame this leaves a woman’s Hypergamous doubt as the determinant of the health of the overall family. That doubt and the insecurities that extend from Hypergamous selection set the tone for educating any children that result from it.

In the last post I made the case that deliberately single, primarily female, parents arrogantly assume they can teach a child both masculine and feminine aspects equally well. In the case where a wife/mother assumes the headship of family authority, both she and the Frame abdicating father/husband reverse this conventional gender modeling for their children.

That woman’s dominant Frame becomes the reality not just her husband must enter, but also their children, and also their family relatives. That feminine dominant Frame is one that is predicated on the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamous doubts.

Is he really the best she can do?”

Play Don’t Pay had an observation from the last post:

I think this “putting the kids first” phenomenon is very simple to explain. She DOESN’T WANT TO FUCK YOU!
She is using the kids as a shield, a barrier to deflect your UNWANTED BETA SEXUAL ADVANCES.
It is generally accepted that women are only interested in the top 20% of men, and if you are talking about as marriage partners I would agree with this.

However if you are talking about as SEX partners that they are genuinely hot for I would estimate this percentage to be north of 5% add in the frame required to maintain her SEXUAL interest in a marriage / LTR and your probably closer to 1-2%.
It’s really that simple! the women that are with these top tier men, the top 1-2% don’t need to be told to put them before the kids, they do it because he IS more important to her than her kids, because if he leaves she will never be able to replace him with another top tier man now she has his kids in tow.

Top tier men don’t raise other mens children and she knows this instinctively.
If you think you can mitigate this by being top 20% and reading a few articles on frame and dread game then I think you will be disappointed.

Sure you can improve your relationship but your probably not going to be able to command the visceral raw desire that women have for the top tier men that makes the do this shit naturally under their own violation.

“Is he really the best she can do?”

In a feminine-primary Frame, that question defines every aspect of that family’s life and development together. It’s important for Red Pill aware men to really meditate on that huge truth. If you do not set, and maintain, a dominant masculine Frame, if you do not accept you role in a conventional complementary relationship, that woman will feel the need to assume the responsibility for her own, and her children’s, security. Women’s psychological firmware predispose them to this on a visceral, limbic, species-survival level.

I’ve met with countless men making a Red Pill transition in life who’ve related stories about the burdening influence of their domineering mothers and Beta supplicating fathers leading to them being brought up to repeat that Blue Pill cycle. I’ve also counseled guys who were raised by their single mothers who had nothing but spite and resentment for the Alpha Asshole father who left her. They too took it upon themselves to be men who sacrifice their masculinity for equalism in order to never be like Dad the asshole. I’ve met with the guys whose mothers had divorced their dutiful fathers to bang their bad boy tingle generating boyfriends (whom they equally despised) and they too were molded by their mother’s Hypergamous decisions.

And this is what I’m trying to emphasize here; in all of these upbringing conditions it is the mother’s Hypergamous doubt that is the key motivating influence on her children. That lack of a father with a positive, strong, dominant Frame puts his children at risk of an upbringing based on that mother’s Hypergamous self-questioning doubt. Add to this the modern feminine-primary social order that encourages women’s utter blamelessness in acting upon this Hypergamous doubt and you can see how the cycle of creating weak, gender confused men and vapid entitled women perpetuates itself.

Finally, to the guys who are psychologically stuck on the shitty conditions they had to endure because of this cycle, to the men who are still dealing with how mommy fucked them up or daddy was a Beta; the best thing you can do is recognize the cycle I’ve illustrated for you here. That’s the first step. The Red Pill is great at getting you laid, but it’s much more powerful than that; it gives you the insight to see the influences that led to where you find yourself today.

Once you’ve recognized the Red Pill truths behind your Blue Pill conditioning, then it’s time to realign yourself, and recreate yourself in defiance to them. The longer you wallow in the self-pitiful condition that your mother’s Hypergamy and your father’s passive Beta-ness embedded in you, the longer you allow that Blue Pill  schema to define who you are.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kobayashii1681
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@M.Simon: Noted.

Jeremy
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I should add on, Scribbler, that while I don’t find it productive to throw anger at women for incel symptoms, that I cannot pretend that I have never felt exactly as you do. I can’t pretend that because I was an incel, for a lot longer than M3 was as a matter of fact.

lh
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“If that youtube guy suddenly got laid, say for an entire weekend with Jessica Alba, would he be any different a man 6 months on? I, personally, doubt it.” Even having sex with a much lesser (but not hideous) women would change such an incel dramatically. It’s probably a big boost to self esteem, which -as we know- is key to get more pussy. The problem of these guys is how the dropped out of the normal development experience all the others had. Getting a foot in finally would help tremendously in getting back to normal. Being incel is a… Read more »

Jeremy
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@lh

You really think one random lay with a woman of any level of attractiveness would affect an incel w.r.t. his ability to hold frame, “play with her and play with her, etc…? Sure he’ll get a boost of confidence for a while. But he’s learned absolutely nothing about how to interact with women in a positive manner as a sexual male being.

play don't pay
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@kfg regarding nihilism for me my reaction is definitely it’s “game on” most if it is retrospective in that @ 47 I’ve wasted so much time on ego investments that were never going to pay off. I’m focused on self improvement but I’m lucky to have all the basic tools required to win at this. My n count is around 150 give or take mainly 6’s and 7’s with around 15 8’s and 3 9’s, never had a 10. Never had a problem with women I didn’t fall in love with, my problem is the 4 that I have fallen… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Sun Wukong “As for the subject at hand, there’s a billboard up near where I live for one of the local motorcycle dealers. Pics of a couple new bikes with the words “Your wife called and said it’s OK!” in big letters.” My dad has a Ducati 948 Desmoquattro. In the winter it gets put on a display stand in the living room. Guests/repair people are always agape – ‘How did you get your wife to let you do that?’ It pisses my mother off; she finds it offensive to suggest that he would need to ask permission, as though… Read more »

Vitriol
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@Jeremy “You really think one random lay with a woman of any level of attractiveness would affect an incel w.r.t. his ability to hold frame, “play with her and play with her, etc…? Sure he’ll get a boost of confidence for a while. But he’s learned absolutely nothing about how to interact with women in a positive manner as a sexual male being” Unless these guys are to the point of no return with mental illness, I don’t think it matters. All of that “playing with women” stuff is really just part of the social conditioning guys receive about the… Read more »

lh
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As I said the lack of these abilities would be a big danger for him. But I think it’s as with the million dollars: the first one is the most difficult one. And it get’s the more difficult the older you get. At some age any women will expect a man knows how to do it, can take on the burden of performance. If you got 0 experience at some age, you’ll really need a ZFG mindset already to get a start. That doesn’t mean the next step wouldn’t be difficult too though, it’s a long way of experience. When… Read more »

M Simon
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lh
October 2nd, 2015 at 11:53 am

ZFG?

lh
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“Zero Fucks Given” – kfg? coined the shortcut and it’s great. “ZFG”-frame should become a standing term in the manosphere.

Is This Thing On?
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A few weeks ago I was at a restaurant where lots of college kids eat. This incel dude, SMV 4, at the tops comes in with a hard HB9. He has this look on his face like he won the lottery. I hear him telling his friends they met online. She’s playing along like they are actually on a date that she is enjoying. Perhaps she really does enjoy his company, but the difference in SMV was simply staggering. Unless she is “THE Unicorn”, their is no way she isn’t playing the guy. This female psychopath is probably going to… Read more »

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lh – “Even having sex with a much lesser (but not hideous) women would change such an incel dramatically….The problem of these guys is how the dropped out of the normal development experience all the others had.” Right, it could make things much worse. Much like only the strong can show mercy, only a hot chick can offer pity sex. The hot chicks status! will take less of a hit, if any, than a 5 or 6 whose status is always in flux. So you get the apprentice Omega laid and it goes how you’d expect. Then the background chatter… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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SJW mentions Biology of Desire. I’m reading it currently in E-pub format, with a dead tree version on the way. Neuroplasticity seems to contradict at least some of the premises of feminism and the Left, who are stuck in a 19th century “permanently wired brain” model – which, if it was true, would mean humans are all instinct and are not capable of learning. Neuroplasticity seems to support the Game tenet of “fake it till you make it”, among other things, and possibly offers a way to deal with some things like “gender dysphoria” as well. Plus neuroplasticity suggests some… Read more »

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@scribblerg You know, I have to agree with Jeremy re: throwing incels a lay. Yes, dudes like that need to get laid, but it’s not on women to do it for them. If an incel can actually do everything it takes to get himself laid instead of receiving charity, it’s a different beast altogether. Charity might happen once. Doing it himself can happen again and again. Charity is due to somebody outside of him having pity. Doing it himself is a result of personal internal changes that will have benefits for him in every aspect of his life. Getting laid… Read more »

kfg
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@Play Don’t Pay: Lest I sometimes come across as some lifetime, natural badass – been there, done that. Even ended up living in my car for a time, which wouldn’t have been so bad if it weren’t a FIAT 124 Spider and coincided with the worst October blizzard in NE US history. Well, at least it had standing headroom if I didn’t mind being cold and wet. @Forge the Sky: For me it’s a Rivendell and a Redline. Not as fast as a Duke, but easier to carry up and down the stairs. With the last ex I built a… Read more »

kfg
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” . . . kfg? coined the shortcut . . . ”

I suppose it’s possible.

And if I do sometimes come across as some sort of natural badass it’s because giving no fucks has been my default state since I was a small child. My mother has stories.

But like Play Don’t Pay, I’ve had bouts of oneitis which fuck me up. I had to learn the hard way to armour my heel and have been free of it for the past decade or so.

lh
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Badpainter: For the Omega’s reputation it is surely not a hit. A lay is a lay. Who cares why she did it and what she says about it? The reason why women don’t do it is exactly status though. I asked a former 10, who ruined herself by tattoos and craziness and the wall some time ago to come to the marriage of a mutual friend, who was her beta-orbiter for years and always available for all her shit to have some female friend of him there. The moment she understood my intention was to put her status as some… Read more »

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@Seraph and wacokid I don’t disagree with what wacokid said. But there are some crucial steps that must be built as a foundation. I’m not advocating either getting fucked by the wife (with her having desire) nor spinning plates. I’m neutral on that. But as Jeremy pointed out, you need to “play with her and play with her….” Your wife has needs too. One is for you to be the man she wants to fuck. You need to make yourself better. Whether it takes 6 months, 18 months or 24 months (a month for every year of marriage is the… Read more »

Jeremy
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Ok, since other people are quoting me, I must point out that I was actually quoting Rollo:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/30/secret-of-the-red-pill/

And actually, I butchered it. It’s really:
Play with her, and play with her.

Jeremy
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@Sun Wukong & scribbler Yes, dudes like that need to get laid, but it’s not on women to do it for them…. And, in defense of scribblerg’s feelings on the matter I would agree that women (especially red pill women) CAN do something. There’s nothing that brings out the man in men more than a woman acting her natural role. That sort of behavior would go a long way to helping incels feel like they aren’t terminally lonely and doomed. Just some f-ing common courtesy, occasional eye contact and maybe respect for being an expendable man would really go a… Read more »

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@Anonymous Reader October 2nd, 2015 at 12:03 pm That is SJF (nice manosphere slip). ScribblerG recommended The Biology of Desire to me. All the hardwired, disease model of addiction or bad habits or blue pill Cypher-bliss is bullshit for the truly motivated masculine male. Pay attention to the fact that what can drive a male to successfully re-wire his brain is surrogate dopamine inputs different from the old bad habit ones or the addiction ones. To break out of ruts, a man needs other stimulating dopamine inputs to rework the limbic reward system. Desire to be better is the fuel… Read more »

lh
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“She needs to babble/talk and you need to listen”

I don’t think so. I thinks it’s best – if you are horny – to put your hand on her mouth, pull her cloth off and fuck her right away. It’s the best way to release her stress after all. If you aren’t horny or she is using it to get you to fuck her, tell her to shut up or at least make sure to show her how much you look down on her stupid bubbling and make fun of her. Fuck her when you are horny.

Anyone disagree?

Chump No More
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Agree with @Jeremy & @Sun.

This falls in the “Give a man a fish” vs “Teach a man to fish” philosophy… Better to focus on giving him tools for life.

SJF
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Lh, I would agree if the premise is she wants Dick. Your dick.

kfg
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lh
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“Lh, I would agree if the premise is she wants Dick. Your dick.”

It’s also one way to be the dick she wants. If she wants to talk, especially bubble, it’s not about what she says, it’s about the connection. Train her the way to connect to you is to fuck your brains out and not that beta-orbiter thing.

Jeremy
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To close the loop, the actual shooter: Chris Harper Mercer, the man identified as the gunman in the deadly rampage at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Ore., on Thursday, was a withdrawn young man who neighbors said wore the same outfit every day — combat boots, green Army pants and a white T-shirt — and was close to his mother, who fiercely protected him. Neighbors in Winchester, Ore., and Torrance, Calif., where Mr. Mercer, 26, lived with his mother, Laurel Harper, remember a reclusive and seemingly fragile young man with a shaved head and dark glasses who seemed to recoil… Read more »

lh
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Of course talking is fine. But don’t talk in her frame, talk in yours.

Sun Wukong
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Meanwhile, Tinder adds a “No seriously, you give me the tingles” swipe.

bnon
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Hey, I posted that exact youtube video two weeks ago. Did nobody see it?

fyi the 4chan channel on not being able to get girls is /r9k/ (robots9000). They call themselves ‘robots’, call others ‘normies’, and speak in the TRP vocabulary (chads, betas) and the snapping / “beta uprising” meme is from there.

http://boards.4chan.org/r9k/thread/22855919/this-is-the-fault-of-sexual-liberalism

http://boards.4chan.org/r9k/thread/22849562/everyone-get-in-here

http://boards.4chan.org/r9k/

SJF
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Lh,
Realize I was specifically speaking in context of Seraph’s previously abdicated frame and his claw-back attempts. Fundamental basics in married man game. His wife will hold on to her frame for dear life and only reluctantly cede it at this point.

Chump No More
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“@chump no more: http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/09/services-rendered/” Lol, Rollo, of course you have a blog post for that! And yes, I get your point. It’s very sad that these guys who are so driven by desperation and go off the deep end are so ego-invested in their blue-pill fantasy of finding a woman who will ‘equally’ reciprocate their idealistic, romantic vision of love that they are totally incapable of doing the ‘hooker math’ to derive the most pragmatic path to female intimacy… it just Does. Not. Compute. But let’s also not forget that as red-pilled as a woman may be, she’s still ALWALT.… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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“Neighbors in Winchester, Ore., and Torrance, Calif., where Mr. Mercer, 26, lived with his mother, Laurel Harper, remember a reclusive and seemingly fragile young man with a shaved head and dark glasses who seemed to recoil from social interaction.” This is a repeated occurring pattern. Young socially isolated male usually with above average intelligence “goes bezerk”, shoots a bunch of people, then everyone wonders why, blames his behavior on insanity, parental conditioning, etc. These atrocities seem to be happening more often maybe because population has increased, but I think not. I think we are experiencing this more because our social… Read more »

Fred Flange, acid house reporter
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Gentlemen: I have just come back from poking around at DailyKos, where a diarist was trying to do exactly as Rollo said: blame the Mercer shootings on MRA’s, Game, red pill, and PUAs. And on 4Chan, which is all misogyny all the time. That the crime was all about misogyny, one SJW commenter convinced the victims would be all female (we already know one of the wounded cops was male). Another went rabbiting off on evo-psych as “unscientific.” And citing Futrelle as their unimpeachable source. But that is not my news. My news is there was pushback. A LOT of… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Sun ” Meanwhile, Tinder adds a “No seriously, you give me the tingles” swipe.” CNN Money has an article about a dating app. It never ends. People think that apps and dating sites may give them a leg up on dating or finding True Love. My first impression is ” fuck this shit “. But I realize that my age handicaps me in this regard. I came up before the internet and always had to talk a chick out of her clothing face to face. There were 2 occasions in my life where I used the net to get… Read more »

MileHighMusicCity
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Can anyone help me out with a source about women cheating more frequently than men? I have always had a gut feeling that it was significantly greater due to ease for women to get laid…not to mention hypergamy etc.

scribblerg
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@Jeremy – I just scrolled past your comment, not interested in dialog with you.

benfromtexas
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@MileHighMusicCity

This article is 2 years old but it sites a research study in it. Enjoy!

http://hellobeautiful.com/2013/09/27/study-shows-women-cheat-more-than-men/

Sun Wukong
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@Blaximus

Maybe stuff like this is a useful tool as long as you can stomach rejection fairly well.

It’s actually the opposite. As a former heavy online dating user, I can confirm it’s a buffer for all men and unattractive women who can’t handle rejection. For attractive women, it’s just a source of SMV inflation, free Beta dinners, and the occasional Alpha Fucks.

Blaximus
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@MileHigh

… I try not to bone married women or women with boyfriends intentionally, but I have screwed many.

One chick I boned for over a year, 4 times a month, before I found out from someone else that she was married. I just thought she was a busy person because she always had to ” schedule ” sex.

Enilias
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Rollo Tomassi: About another small percentage get trapped in a cycle of self-pity and hopelessness. They retreat into a shell of isolation, and due to lethargy, frustration or confusion they never make the transition into applying that Red Pill truth into a better life. Then there are the outliers; the guys who also wallow in the self-pity and loathing that comes from having that truth so brutally and honestly hit them where it hurts. They never leave the anger phase and the nihilism consumes them. Yes, they’re almost all mentally imbalanced to some degree, and they exact the frustration this… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Enilias I’d suggest you do what I did. There’s a line of advice out there I heard (from 4chan of all places) that goes this way: OK, you’ve decided to off yourself or whatever. You’re already dead in your own mind. Means things can’t get any worse right? How bout since you’re dead anyway, you do something you’ve always wanted to do but had a million excuses for why you didn’t. A big trip, telling everybody you meet exactly what you think of them with no internal filter, buying/renting a car you can’t afford and driving it a million miles… Read more »

Blaximus
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@Sun

Ohhh, okay. My ignorance of the mechanics is showing.

Blaximus
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Sun “… You’re already dead in your own mind. Means things can’t get any worse right? How bout since you’re dead anyway, you do something you’ve always wanted to do but had a million excuses for why you didn’t. A big trip, telling everybody you meet exactly what you think of them with no internal filter, buying/renting a car you can’t afford and driving it a million miles an hour across country… anything. I mean shit, if things don’t work out afterwards, you can always die still right?” CoSign to infinity. If life isn’t working out in it’s current incarnation,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Blaximus

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I’d say the number of rejections I’ve had in real life attempts going all the way back to middle school when I first started trying is probably a couple hundred. In 4 years of using online dating, that number was more like two or three thousand. When the rejection is mostly just “she never responded” instead of “she and her friend laughed in my face with absolutely no regard for me as a human”, it’s easy to blow through thousands of rejections.

kfg
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@Enilias: “So what do I do when I’m one of them who so far is only planning that violence on himself?”

Virtually anything else. Brown rat hunting, for instance. It will get you out of the house and give a violent outlet for your anger while performing a valuable service to man and beast. Please; kill them. Kill them all.

Blaximus
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@Sun

(better) Understood.

Sun Wukong
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The world according to kfg: “How can you tell a suicidal man? By his brown rat extermination business’ kill count.”

benfromtexas
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@bnon

Good heads up.

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@ Enilias

“So what do I do when I’m one of them who so far is only planning that violence on himself?”

Tell us about yourself.

I’ve seen more than once that guys here care to help and can prove useful actionable advice. You’d be surprised how much the manosphere was developed to help individual men. And you wouldn’t believe how much Rollo Tomassi has invested in doing just that. Just ask.

Blaximus
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@Enilias, I’m not very good at these things, but I want to try to respond to you. Because of how we react to life as we perceive it, the world appears to be a real shithole sometimes, or we see ourselves as the problem. Our participation in life seems to be the unending problem because we believe we can’t change the world we live in. Chew on this for a while please, I think problems arise when we attempt to look at a life that is brutal and/or unfulfilling as a long term, long range prospect. In that lens we… Read more »

kfg
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@Sun: Don’t be silly. I advise pure vigilantism. No traps. No poison. Shoot the bastards.

Sun Wukong
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SJF
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@kfg

Hah ha!

My inner thoughts about the recent early antlerless (doe) firearms deer hunting season (two days) will remain my inner thoughts. Everything was ethical and legal to the casual observer. I do feel better for the experience. (The antler-less deer are like overabundant rats at my farm.).

M Simon
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lh October 2nd, 2015 at 1:54 pm When women babble it is almost always a cover-up for emotions they would rather not come in contact with. Silence is the answer. And if you look around – women do not do silence well. Paying attention is not intrinsic to them. I think it is why there are so few RP women. In addition RP understanding is inimical to their Game. So if they can keep their Game hidden by covering their emotions and hiding their game they get an advantage. Also note – their Game does not make them happy. I… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@NBTM:
“This post on frame indirectly (although effectively) addresses the most fundamental source of our problem with women. Women have always been the way they are today. Hypergamy has not changed. What has changed is man’s estimation of himself. The average man does not realize his intrinsic value and defers its evaluation to a plethora of pop culture cons games, Ponzi schemes, and other bullshit all orchestrated to use his energy, time, and in some cases his life. ”

Nicely put!

lh
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It worked for 40 years, why should she change it? They’ll do what they get away with.

lh
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And getting away with it doesn’t make them happy.

M Simon
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Chump No More
October 2nd, 2015 at 3:10 pm

The reason they can’t do hooker math is that sex is not their object. They want to be liked by a woman. They want to be wanted – for who they are.

And you will note that around here “wanting to be wanted for who you are” is the punch line or lead up to a joke.

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@M Simon

Or the jumping of point for a surpsingly good Cracked article shitting on the idea.

M Simon
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lh October 2nd, 2015 at 6:28 pm It is way worse than that in my case. Remember – I had been RP for about 14 years before I started with her. She has never gotten away with it. OTOH maybe she has. She has never “won” with those tactics. But for various reasons (children mainly) I have not Nexted her. So despite her failure – I keep Frame – the shit tests continue. I tell her often – “If you would stay surrendered I could give you more of that Beta attention (honey do’s etc.) you crave.” Otherwise I have… Read more »

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“They want to be wanted – for who they are.” That desire is understandable, because it is great to be wanted for what you are. And that’s what happens if you perform actually. These men though hold on to the desire for that love – because of the lack of love. The desire seems better than nothing, but it really isn’t. It’s actually standing in the way to love. Holding to the desire, getting stuck between anger and mourning, is a dysfunctional solution to a real problem – the lack of love. Unfortunately “performing”, being strong from your mental point… Read more »

insanitybytes22
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“I find it interesting how quickly TRP is indiscriminately linked to ANY mass shooting now. There’s a desire on the part of SJWs and gender warriors to forge a narrative that TRP is dangerous..”

Tomassi, without sacrificing a single thing, you could tweak the message just enough that those lost boys would not use your red pill to become violent meglomaniacs that go on shooting rampages.

The link between red pill ideology and permission for the expression of male sexual rage is no joke, but you are not even willing to discuss it. Hell, you can’t even see it.

kfg
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“. . . those lost boys would not use your red pill to become violent meglomaniacs that go on shooting rampages.”

Well fine then; we’ll live trap the rats and bring them all over to your house.

M Simon
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Sun Wukong
October 2nd, 2015 at 5:13 pm

I was given the gift of being a “dead man” a long time ago. It IS liberating.

And funny enough the Christians are always on about “dying and being reborn”. But they only seem to get being reborn into their set of beliefs. There are other possibilities. Red Pill.

M Simon
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insanitybytes22
October 2nd, 2015 at 6:55 pm

If you women with your huge capacity for love would start loving the unlovables you could cure a lot of this.

Fat chance.

insanitybytes22
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“If you women with your huge capacity for love would start loving the unlovables you could cure a lot of this.”

Women cannot cure men with love. Many have died trying.

SJF
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Hell, I can’t see it either. And I’m pretty observant.

insanitybytes22
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“IB once again, your intellectual lethargy shines through..”

Sigh. Tomassi, I want YOUR intellectual curiosity to get the better of you. I want YOU to ask these questions.

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@sjf “She needs to babble/talk and you need to listen. You have to at least pretend/show/fake or indeed be genuine in showing you care and you have to not get distracted by her lack of grounding in what she needs to do. She didn’t sign up for a guy she doesn’t want to fuck and doesn’t want to listen to her hamster babble. She’ll easily find girlfriends or a beta orbiter to listen to her. Good luck with that” What a fucking pussy you are. Did you read, I have been married for 30 years, wtf can you tell me,… Read more »

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wacokid
October 2nd, 2015 at 8:06 pm

I used to tell her, “Shut up!” And her response used to be, “You can’t talk to me like that.” Now a days she shuts up.

Things that guys will get in a second or a week takes females decades. If you are relentless enough and live long enough eventually they will get it.

M Simon
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Sun Wukong
October 2nd, 2015 at 6:41 pm

Thanks for that. Way back a long time ago I used to know David Mamet (“Glenngary Glenn Ross”) quite well. I was once told by a close actor friend of his that “The Water Engine” was written with me in mind. I of course was the nerdy inventor.

insanitybytes22
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“He’s been writing for over 12 years and I’ve only read half a dozen of his essays and none of his books..”

Tomassi, I’ve read one of your books and several dozen of your posts. I don’t read you because I think you’re a moron, I read because you’re interesting.

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@ wacokid The quote by me above was specifically talking to Seraph. I don’t disagree with you or your methods in your marriage. I can understand you are pissed at what I said. I’m sure you have heard way to much babbling in 30 years. Each man needs to write his own prescription. To quote Rollo in his link above “I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.” I’m not a pussy nor a keyboard jockey alone. I’ve been married for 25 years and at some time in the midpoint I… Read more »

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insanitybytes22
October 2nd, 2015 at 7:31 pm

Women cannot cure men with love.

Well OK. Women are incapable. Thank you.

I once stopped a woman from suiciding by caring for her in a loving way. She thanks me to this day. But you can’t do that. And you want to tell us how to live?

insanitybytes22
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MSimon, read Tomassi’s words, he’s right,

“I know the obsessiveness of the kind of guy Eliot was. A devoted girlfriend, and her sexual affections wouldn’t have steered his course any differently.”

http://therationalmale.com/2014/05/27/the-severing/

Women have surprisingly little influence over broken men. They can’t hear us, they can’t feel us. It is only in a healthy relationship where we can entertain our romantic notions of saving men from the darker side of themselves.

M Simon
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SJF October 2nd, 2015 at 9:10 pm Being a good conversationalist and listening are excellent skills. Very handy. But if you are really listening you will find that the babbling is almost always a cover up for emotions that they would rather not deal with. I would not ever tell a casual “friend” to shut up. I would use gentler methods. But the LTR knows me as Mr. Blunt. After “Shut up.” I discourse on the value of silence. Quieting the inner noise. Because their babbling is in effect them telling themselves to “shut up”. And if you learn how… Read more »

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insanitybytes22 October 2nd, 2015 at 9:26 pm I have put quite a bit of effort into learning how to heal the broken. It is a skill like any other and the literature – though often unconventional – is voluminous. It can be done. And of course the first person I tried it on was myself. It worked. Now I get that it is not your interest. Females are rarely into that kind of work. But to say it can’t be done is to only parade your ignorance. I do admit that I have limits to my capability. But it is… Read more »

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IB – “It is only in a healthy relationship where we can entertain our romantic notions of saving men from the darker side of themselves.” What a loaded statement! So only in a healthy relationship (defined by who?) can a woman entertain romantic notions (can’t influence a man not under your thumb?) of saving men from the darker side of themselves. So, men need saving, women can only save men if they commit, and that means committing to a woman turns you from the dark side! Dear, no woman can save a man from his demons. A man has to… Read more »

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M.Simon

“But if you are really listening you will find that the babbling is almost always a cover up for emotions that they would rather not deal with. I would not ever tell a casual “friend” to shut up. I would use gentler methods.”

Agreed. Decades long married man game is an Art. In all arts one must be masterful and adapt.

keyser Soze
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@Insanitybytes (Mr . Hyde) ,
You know why I love you?! , you are the true shadow of ALL women, I love your honesty and the true pragmatism of Hypergamy.
All women are Insanitybytes, YOU have the balls to say it as it is .
You give men a great service , thank you.

Roused
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I just got done reading Beattie’s book on codependency. From the armchair this IB seems like a classic codependent person. Another post from earlier this week made me wonder, then this: “Women have surprisingly little influence over broken men. They can’t hear us, they can’t feel us. It is only in a healthy relationship where we can entertain our romantic notions of saving men from the darker side of themselves.” If that is not codependency then I don’t know what is. @SJF Thanks for the suggestion about the book, for sure going to read The Biology of Desire Why Addiction… Read more »

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Uggg.. Typos. It’s late…zzzz. Would love an edit function on our comments.

M Simon
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My take on addiction: People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers. If you don’t fix the pain you don’t fix the addiction. And that explains the huge relapse rate in the “addiction” industry. It is a con. Sure they can take your money (LOTS of it) and get you off your drug of choice. But fixing the underlying problem is much more difficult. Thus relapse. And the truly disgusting thing about it is that the people involved have to know by now what they are doing is a con. But there is government. And government mandated insurance. There are… Read more »

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Here is a good overview of Marc Lewis’ take on why addiction is not a disease per se. http://blogs.plos.org/mindthebrain/2012/11/12/why-addiction-is-not-a-brain-disease/ “In my view, addiction (whether to drugs, food, gambling, or whatever) doesn’t fit a specific physiological category. Rather, I see addiction as an extreme form of normality, if one can say such a thing. Perhaps more precisely: an extreme form of learning. No doubt addiction is a frightening, often horrible, state to endure, whether in oneself or in one’s loved ones. But that doesn’t make it a disease.” He also talks about recovery by some that don’t subscribe to the disease… Read more »

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SJF October 3rd, 2015 at 12:39 am There is another factor. Spontaneous quitting. For some types of pain – for some people – the pain eventually dies out. Those people give up their addiction with no effort. No model in common use explains it. What does explain it is B. Lutz’ work on PTSD using a mouse model. CB1 knockout mice (missing the CB1 receptor) take longer to recover from induced PTSD than normal mice. But if the pain that induced the PTSD stops they eventually recover. “Addiction” is in fact genetic. Only 20% of the population is susceptible to… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@SJF Heh, nice harvest man. “If a man is deficient, he needs to make himself better at being a man. I was specifically pointing out that a husband has to be complementary to his wife’s needs. Women need to prattle on about stuff. Disregarding this (esp. in a tenuous marriage relationship) is incongruent with being good at being a masculine male. You don’t have to do this with a blue pill or purple pill frame either. Completeness and complementary-ness means respecting your wife or LTR for who they are.” In my (fairly limited, mind) experience with LTR’s, I learned that… Read more »

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@Jeremy Scribblerg isn’t disapproving of the intellectual content of your posts. He’s disapproving of the fact that it isn’t clear what your ideas mean to you. It isn’t clear that they’re being used as a tool to your betterment. Doesn’t his callous dismissal of your writing piss you off? Even a little? Don’t you want to call that bastard out for his arrogance? Being a man requires more than an intellectual mastery. It also requires a mastery over emotions of all sorts. And mastery over emotions entails far more than an ability to suppress them. Mind and emotion need to… Read more »

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@M Simon

Good to see ya, man. How’s the fusion?

“There is another factor. Spontaneous quitting. For some types of pain – for some people – the pain eventually dies out. Those people give up their addiction with no effort.”

My current experience is the the pain doesn’t diminish – much – but my overall functioning keeps on increasing. I’m afraid of fewer things. And the pain changes subtley over time, finding new objects. Do ya think I’m doing it right, or am I holding back on something?

Forge the Sky
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Well, I overdid the S-adenosylmethionine and now I’ve got insomnia for the night. Guess I’ll just write a book. Let’s get back on topic here. From the OP: ““Is he really the best she can do?” “In a feminine-primary Frame, that question defines every aspect of that family’s life and development together. It’s important for Red Pill aware men to really meditate on that huge truth. If you do not set, and maintain, a dominant masculine Frame, if you do not accept you role in a conventional complementary relationship, that woman will feel the need to assume the responsibility for… Read more »

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@Seraph Two more things from last thread. First, you were talking about how beneficial it is to be in the present moment. Reminded me of this: https://youtu.be/8a5fO8jE7mc Tyler isn’t teaching anything new here, though his guide to mediation is simple and practical. But it’s interesting hearing him talk about how meditation and mindfulness can function to help him get laid lol, it’s some good realtalk. Second, re: “You REALLY should do a post explaining what an adolescent social skill set is and how it differs from an adult one. Every time you use that phrase I cringe because I sense… Read more »

lh
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“Irrational self-confidence is the male sexual display.”

One shouldn’t even call it “irrational”. Being as confident in you as possible is in no way irrational. Everything else is irrational. Calling it irrational is deriving it from others values and not from your own mental point of origin.

kfg
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” . . . am I holding back on something?”

Yes.

“And the pain changes subtley over time, finding new objects. ”

This is transference, an avoidance behaviour. What you are holding back on is the original object(s).

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