The mainstream loves a salacious story about the sexual misconducts of men. With the recent Ashley Madison data leak the narrative was one of blaming and shaming the overwhelming majority of men who signed up for an account to cheat in their spouses. This has resulted in more than one suicide. A topic of the Man in Demand Q&A session I fielded was how the Red Pill lens isn’t limited to just scoffing at the Blue Pill in popular media, but that it also gives men a sensitivity and awareness to better understand the motivations for social narratives like this.
Red Pill aware men understand that if there is an opportunity to cast blame or doubt on a man over his sexual impulse, or the consequences for allowing it to lead to behavior that conflicts with a feminine-primary social order, shaming will always be the go-to, socially acceptable strategy. Sex will always be a clichéd thumbscrew to gauge men’s personal resolve, and this is a built-in failsafe of control for the Blue Pill’s conditioning of men.
Red Pill men understand the motivating incentives for this “cheating” and that in a westernizing culture, 50%+ of marriages are clinically and practically sexless, it’s not hard to understand the want for a man to find some temporary sexual release in infidelity, porn or delusions of emotional infidelity. It’s also easy to understand how the paradox of commitment would drive such men to suicide.
This is simply one data point of many in a larger Red Pill awareness that indicates some very uncomfortable truths women need to confront; whether single or married, men will actively seek a practical solution to their sexlessness. And it is just this sexual problem solving that will ultimately challenge women’s unilateral, social and personal power over their own Hypergamy. On a limbic level women and the imperative are aware of this challenge. Thus, it’s controlled for by investing in conditioning men to feel guilt or shaming for ever embracing their masculine sexual nature. It’s a threat.
Keep this fact in mind as I explore today’s topic. Women and feminine-primary culture have done an amazing job at commodifying women’s singular, primary agency with men – their physicality and sexual availability. It’s de rigueur in the manosphere to write articles about women reducing themselves to being next to valueless to men beyond their sexual attributes. I’ve written in the past about women’s commodifying love and sex, however recently women are being forced to face the realities of making their sexuality a commodity.
What women, both prominent and insignificant, are coming to realize is that the ultimate plan of feminism (destroying the evolved, complementary family structure of parenting) is really a planned obsolescence for womankind. As I was coming to this realization I found it rather ironic that only 5 years ago we had the likes of Hannah Rosin profiting from the idea that men were (or were becoming) obsolete. Five years later it appears the fear now is that it’s women who will become obsolete in the most literal, commodified sense. That fear is beginning to show.
In the Future Sexbots will Drink Feminist Tears
If you follow me on twitter or you’re even peripherally aware of MSM gender sensationalism in a Red Pill context you’ll know that the topic du jour this week is the coming, realistic, availability of robotic sex partners and the efforts being made to legislate against their development by ‘concerned’ women. Heartiste and many other manosphere writers naturally picked up on this. I particularly enjoyed Milo Yiannopoulos’ piece Sexbots: Why Women Should Worry.
But male sexual appetites are easily satisfied, despite what women will tell you. Blow jobs really aren’t that difficult, and in any case most blokes are fine with a pizza and a wank. For many men, sex is a nice bonus, but it’s not essential. When you introduce a low-cost alternative to women that comes without all the nagging, insecurity and expense, frankly men are going to leap in headfirst.
One of the primary and evolved differences in men and women’s neural firmware is that men are natural and intrinsic problem solvers. I’ve pointed it out in many an essay; men are wired to solve problems with a rudimentary, deductive logic process. It’s one of the reasons we get ourselves into such horribly misled predicaments with women; we expect a binary, A to B to C level of reason with women (reinforced by equalist ideology) and deductively try to solve a sex and intimacy problem with them.
Improvisation and innovation are what we do to live better; one reason men naturally view women as sex objects is literally due to wiring in our brains that predispose us to using tools. So it’s really not much of a stretch to see how men will use this inventiveness to solve a need for sex. And in an intersexual social environment that’s predicated on the commodification of sex, well, you can see how the advancement of sexual substitutes and virtual sexual experiences would be driven by supply and demand.
It’s science fiction at this stage, but the ball is rolling and this is causing the Feminine Imperative to confront uncomfortable possibilities with just the proposition of having a sexual monopoly disrupted be the innovations of men.
Do Robots Dream of Electric Sin?
As might be expected, Dalrock took a shot at this story from a Christian moralistic angle – would sex with a convincing facsimile of a woman qualify as sinning?
InnocentBystanderBoston had a good comment in that thread:
Aside from the purely moral question, there is another risk regarding sexbots. Our economy is built on the expectation that men will be motivated by marriage to produce in excess of their own needs. As we continue to degrade marriage, sexbots will be there to fill the gaps.
…with unilateral divorce law and the accompanying cash and prizes awarded to the female courtesy of judges immersed in the feminist imperative, I think s-xbots pretty much end marriage. If marriage isn’t completely destroyed forever with version 2.0, the s-xbot will most certainly destroy it. And why? The s-xbot will always give you s-x on demand. It will stay at home, faithful to you. It will not spend your money and ruin your credit rating. It will not get a judge to sign a restraining order against you. It can’t divorce you and take cash and prizes. It will never age maintaining its peak SMV forever (if you believe in Rollo’s charts.) So that will pretty much be it for feminism. Without the surplus wealth created by men to subsidize the parasitic nature of feminist centric Marriage 2.0, there can be no feminism. Women are net wealth consumers. Without husbands, there lives will ONLY be in decline. The feminist imperative can NOT allow these s-xbots to be made.
On a rudimentary level feminism has always recognized that women’s only real agency with men is sex. We can see this in the feminine-centric commodification of sex, and we can see this truth in (third wave) feminism’s embrace of sex positivity – but again, only within the confines of a feminine-centric and unilaterally feminine controlled context for that sex to happen in.
The increasingly more accepted Yes Means Yes legalistic checklist that underwrites sexual relations (for what feminists know will always be defined by ambiguous circumstances) is a glaring example of this litigious overreach in an effort to lock down unilateral control of Hypergamy for women. This is the degree of paranoia that the doubt of Hypergamous insecurity inspires in those women less capable of intrasexual competition with their sisters to secure it.
When granted the social facilities to do so, women will always base their personal choices, their personal ideologies, their social order and their legislative doctrines around relieving themselves of Hypergamous doubt and insecurities. In truth, women’s evolved socio-sexual filtering ensures that there is no practical relief from this. There is no 100% assuredness of Hypergamous choice; Hypergamy doubts optimization even after the best of choices, but if given the power, women will build a social order around an attempt to mutually allay that doubt, allay that sexual competition anxiety, and all at men’s expense and disempowerment.
Becoming Obsolete
If you ever need an example of the duplicity with which the Feminine Imperative really aligns itself with equalism, look no further than how that “equality” is expressed with preferring pro-feminine solutions to social problems.
There is a fundamental fear women experience in just the prospect of not having 100% control over their sexual selection, sexual strategy and ultimately optimization of their Hypergamy. Anything that challenges women’s unilateral control of their Hypergamous power – such as prostitution, male hormonal birth control, female viagra, DNA testing for paternity and now sexbots – must be ruthlessly and preemptively legislated against if feminine social primacy is to be maintained. Even the idea of sexbots destroying women’s monopoly on sex, however fantastical, must be eliminated before it becomes a threat.
Kathleen Richardson, a professor at De Montfort University in England, serves as an excellent example of this axiom:
“Sex robots seem to be a growing focus in the robotics industry and the models that they draw on — how they will look, what roles they would play — are very disturbing indeed,” she told the BBC.
She believes that they reinforce traditional stereotypes of women and the view that a relationship need be nothing more than physical.
“We think that the creation of such robots will contribute to detrimental relationships between men and women, adults and children, men and men and women and women,” she said.
I would agree that it is detrimental in these terms, but the fear of losing feminine primacy is evident in just the prospect of sexbots.
The squid ink here is the concern for reinforcing “traditional stereotypes” of women for the almost unanimously male demographic who’d buy a sexual substitute (notice there is no call for creating morbidly obese variants of sexbots). The real fear is that men prefer that stereotype and it would force women to confront the truth that if they don’t accommodate men’s physical and psychological preferences (conventional femininity) they will progressively devalue women’s sexual agency over them by opting for the sexbot.
And that is a very pressing threat to women’s control over Hypergamy.
What were witnessing here is the acknowledgement that shaming men for their inventiveness in resolving their sexual needs isn’t working. Thus the social and legislative power the Feminine Imperative wields has to be invoked. Naturally there will be “think of the children” appeals and the admonishments of dehumanization on the part of men, but the binary truth is that women’s prime commodity (sex) could be reduced to making women obsolete.
The following is an exchange between Vitriol and YaReally from the last post.
“However, the biggest secret they all want to hide is that using money, whether doing something like you described or paying for pussy outright, is the most efficient way to get laid. If your main goal is to get laid as much as possible, does it matter whether you followed some arbitrary rules that some guy posted on the internet along the way? ”
lol brb taking a helicopter to the top of Mount Everest because it’s more efficient than those dumbasses who actually CLIMB it. It DOES matter to men who’s goal isn’t “to get laid as much as possible” but is “to get laid by girls who are legitimately into me, as much as possible”. To each their own.
If we accept the Pareto Principle as a rough guideline, 80% of men are Betas who simply don’t care to, or accept that they don’t have the capacity to, concern themselves with learning how to “get laid with girls who are genuinely into them.” They’ll create every manner of rationale to convince themselves that the girl who solves his sexual thirst is genuinely into him, or he’ll opt for the most available, most feasible, means to resolve that sexual deprivation. The ubiquitousness of free, easily accessible, streaming hi-def pornography is a testament to this dynamic.
Whether the reality of convincing sexbots is ever achieved isn’t really relevant in this equation, the fear of losing primary control of Hypergamy is what’s at stake. We see this fear manifested in criminalizing prostitution and the shame of men seeking sexual release via pornography and Ashley Madison accounts.
Recently I was asked about my take on the legal pushback on the part of women to regulate or outright ban the FDA approval of the female form of Viagra. From the socially acceptable perspective the fear is that the drug might be used as another (more effective) date rape drug. From a Red Pill perspective the fear is, once again, rooted in women’s fear of men circumventing women’s sexual strategy by chemically influencing their arousal process.
It’s one thing to forcibly rape a woman and thereby take control of her Hypergamous choice, but it quite another to prompt her into engaging in sex she is influenced to by some extrinsic means. As such, women’s sexual selection and Hypergamous optimization is effectively mitigated if not removed from the sexual equation by an invention of men. So once again we see the nervous efforts of the Feminine Imperative to ban any prospective attempts by men to exercise even a marginal control over Hypergamy.
Women have access to safe and legal abortion (a Hypergamous control), but a drug that might influence their libido and thus lead them to sexual choices they might no otherwise control and make, even the idea of that innovation needs regulation. Remove women from the sexual selection and arousal process and you make their only value – the value westernized women have systematically established for themselves – effectively obsolete.
That’s not a judgement call. Women tend to conflate their personal, intrinsic value with their sexual market value. However, in the SMP that is predicated upon women’s only value to men being sexual (not as life mates, mothers, or personal worth), the monopoly of sexual leverage becomes toothless.
Hey Rollo, I’ve been thinking about the complimentarity thing. It is actually a bit of a slippery issue to think about, each way I try to approach it seems more insubstantial upon approach than it first seems. We’ve pointed out already how women can adapt themselves to a man in a way that makes some of the mundane parts of life easier (cooking, cleaning, etc are the traditional go-to’s but she’ll adapt to all sorts of needs if she’s into you). We’ve also mentioned the sort of steady drip of validation you can get from a woman’s persistent love for… Read more »
Forge The Sky – “But really the only thing I think would keep me around women if sex/practical needs were taken care of is a simple joie de vivre that comes from being around happy, feminine women. The way they laugh, the ridiculous things they do to small cute things, the random affection, the childlike voices, the attempts they make to entice you, the free-associative conversations – it just gives you a certain energy and vitality that you’d lack without it. Can you only get that in the context of an LTR? No. But it’s not a bad way to… Read more »
So three ways in which a Fembot would improve my life over a wife, just from this morning: Example One: I put on my wife in bed after kids are gone to school. Wife Response – “I still kind of have my period.” Ok. Any offers for something else? HJ? BJ? Pass me the iPad and lube so I can jerk off to porn? Nope. I go to walk the dog for 40 minutes so I can continue to lose weight and improve myself. Fembot Response – “Mmmm. My vaginal port is still sore from last night. Maybe a little… Read more »
First line should read:
Example One:
I put a move on my wife in bed after kids are gone to school.
@Badpainter
Ya, frankly I’ve gotten this sort of thing more from my sisters than anywhere else. My father gets them from his wife and daughters. I also, since being RP aware, have started to treat cute female co-workers much more like I do my younger sisters, and that works well too. It’s just fun and pleasant.
With the co-workers it actually generates attraction as well, which is good to know, but I learned the hard way not to shit where you eat 😉
“Hate to post this for the nth time, but have you read this?”
@forge
Hey, read those posts. I’m not a fan. Seems to make it more complicated than it is.
Another thought on complementarity… Men are built for struggle and thrive in hardship. We are wired for self-improvement and excellence… The Greeks knew it and called it ‘Arete’. Men have been gaming women in some fashion since time immemorial and in that game we thrive. We only value what we win and the complementarity of competing sexual strategies honed men to become the undisputed masters of the planet… no more. The pill, feminism, legislated unrestrained hypergamy (quaintly known as no-fault divorce) has destroyed that complementarity and created a quagmire of cognitive dissonance, creating generations of lost men. The ‘red pill’… Read more »
“the ultimate plan of feminism … is really a planned obsolescence for womankind.” BOOM. As soon as I read the words, I new this was a hidden, deep truth. Eve – womankind – was made to be a ‘helpmeet’ for man. As Rollo and Dalrock chronicle, feminisms main goal is the rejection of this central purpose of womankind. …to empty womankind of any value to men. Feminism is thus a self-negating philosophy. It’s a self-denial of that which gives ultimate pleasure and purpose in a woman’s life. It’s a cold, barren, isolating walk when God desires a social, loving, nurturing… Read more »
@Forge: “But really the only thing I think would keep me around women if sex/practical needs were taken care of is a simple joie de vivre that comes from being around happy, feminine women. The way they laugh, the ridiculous things they do to small cute things, the random affection, the childlike voices, the attempts they make to entice you, the free-associative conversations – it just gives you a certain energy and vitality that you’d lack without it.” Well said, and I agree completely. This experience is an elixir after a long workday. I kid my wife regularly, calling her… Read more »
@Andy
That’s cool, it’s not everyone’s cuppa. The hyperanalysis is good for when you’re doing something wrong and don’t know what, or when you don’t get what congruence looks like in the first place. If that’s not you it’s probably more hurtful than helpful.
It’s like socializing – thinking about it at all is toxic if you’re any good at it, but there’s actually some pretty complex skills going on that need to be taught if you’re very undersocialized.
@Chump No More Your post reminds me of a section in a book I’m reading called Odysseus in America “A peaceful harbor no safe place” “Preventing psychological and moral injury in military combat.” Although not in the book these things come to mind in leading men. 1. Commanders must lead and they must have the authority to match their responsibility. 2. Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men. 3. Leaders always protect their followers first. 4. Leaders always do what they ask their followers to do. 5. Do not go to war when… Read more »
Forge,
I don’t disagree with what the article said. It just seems like a different definition of congruence. My thought is that it’s simply being in the moment with thoughts, words, aligned. Period.
Anonymous Reader September 23rd, 2015 at 4:14 pm There’s more than a little cognitive dissonance on display, especially in the dehumanization/objectification of men department. It’s illuminating. This coming from the man who is surprised that: They are also outraged at the idea of plate spinning. Only red pill bollocks can be so devoid of self-awareness and irony. Rollo Tomassi September 23rd, 2015 at 7:12 pm I can tell you right now that if all Mrs. T brought to the table was a wet hole I would’ve divorced her long ago. It’s hard for me to use my own relationship as… Read more »
@Doc, I guess IB’s echo chamber is getting a little too drab for you?
@ RobbyJ
Feminism is actually about giving lesbians full sexual access to as many women as possible. Especially the young hot ones that most often are the desirable objects of men’s pursuit. The effects you describe are less a goal than a tool to drive men away and drive toward the loving arms of the nearest Dworkinesque dyke.
What you did is called a neg and whatever her hamster makes off it, the emotional reaction is usually sweetness. I like it too, of course. But I’d count Game as part of the foreplay and belonging to the wet hole thing.
What @Forge described is imo part of their Game and also sexual in the widest sense.
@Eleanor “I appreciate the livid and lively responses to my petty charade, but I’m still not convinced that “red pill” thinking will ever be mainstream. Most men have neither the intellectual depth nor interest to digest this kind of information.” Well….Mr. Eleanor, Not convinced “red pill” thinking will become mainstream? Why do you suspect this when many men are being enlightened every day and millions are aware already? Red Pill began before game. Game itself is one earlier precipitation of red pill. A cursory review of the manosphere reveals numerous blogs blatantly describing and discussing red pill. There have been… Read more »
Time for the FI to invent a new cover and some new perfume. A new form of urban camouflage is needed. We have pulled her panties off in the light and discovered stinky pussy and butt stink !!!
Before red pill we were enthralled and said OMG she has an ass. After red pill we are horrified and say OMG she has an ass.
@Forge ” But really the only thing I think would keep me around women if sex/practical needs were taken care of is a simple joie de vivre that comes from being around happy, feminine women. The way they laugh, the ridiculous things they do to small cute things, the random affection, the childlike voices, the attempts they make to entice you, the free-associative conversations – it just gives you a certain energy and vitality that you’d lack without it. Can you only get that in the context of an LTR? No. But it’s not a bad way to get it.… Read more »
DocG & Eleanor et.al –
What ARE you?
White knight trolling self denying feminism dingle berry clingers…..?
DocG –
I don’t care if Rollo’s wife is 85, looks like a 95 year old version of Mrs. Frankenstein, and Rollo plays with dog shit all day. All that makes no difference. What does make the difference is what he writes and how it directly relates to reality and experience.
If you prefer to be a dingle berry clinging to the ass hair of feminism, that’s your prerogative but do not deceive yourself into thinking anyone here will join you.
Doc’s just another pissed off MGTOW. I can tell because they always rely on the “cheaper to keep her” insults when they pop off about guys with good relationships with women.
It’s beyond their capacity to grasp that men like myself to YaReally can and do manage women in our lives. So it grates when they hear it.
hey @YaReally I appreciate the advice about the podcast/anonymity. I’ve always avoided giving clearly-identifying info, and I was particularly adamant about not divulging the identities of any girls I describe my interactions with. And I’ll tend to describe things in the abstract anyways, with just the occasional personal story for illustration. I’m not overly paranoid about this sort of stuff, so it’s good to get a warning every now and again. You suggested doing field reports on the show last thread, so long as anonymity was preserved. I think that would be pretty cool, but this case illustrates that ya… Read more »
I have a friend with benefits, but I got my heart broken by another girl, who wanted to keep me as a friend, and dragged on my pain as long as she could. My friend has been supportive, and I’d be in a much worse place without her. I really appreciate her. So for me, lack of sex isn’t the deal. It’s lack of what I want: a life partner.
Doc’s just another pissed off MGTOW. If he is, then he is pretty bad at it, no? If he’s going his own way, it shouldn’t matter what kind of relationship a guy has with a woman, no? He’s above all that, out of the game as it were, so why would he care? He’s doing his own thing, or am I getting MGTOW wrong? So, if he really MGTOW, and if he is, what is with the militant attitude? Seems SJWish in the sense of trying to force one’s own lifestyle and attitude on others. Why? Just do your own… Read more »
@NBTM:
And then after after the red pill, “Yeah, she’s got an ass. They all have an ass. I’ve got one of my own. We all have an ass. What else has she got?”
Cyfox – “It’s lack of what I want: a life partner.”
Doesn’t exist my friend. Best you can hope is a loyal employee, but partner implies equality and that doesn’t exist.
@Andy It just seems like a different definition of congruence. My thought is that it’s simply being in the moment with thoughts, words, aligned. Period.” Oh, I see. I would call that ‘being unrepressed.’ It’s just kinda how you look at it. When you aren’t repressing any urges or thoughts, you come across congruently moment-to-moment, and people feel they’re connecting with the ‘real you.’ It’s only when there are contradictions that people – women especially – get turned off, bored, or even creeped out. Like, say, some beta has been told that he needs to make his conversations more sexual… Read more »
@DocG There’s more than a little cognitive dissonance on display, especially in the dehumanization/objectification of men department. It’s illuminating. This coming from the man who is surprised that: They are also outraged at the idea of plate spinning. Only red pill bollocks can be so devoid of self-awareness and irony. Only blue-pilled matrix-plugged-in people can’t see the irony in blue-pill land. Let’s examine the words of Sheryl Sandberg: “When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them.… Read more »
@ [kfg When they wake up one day to find a bear in their urban yard they will complain about what is missing, but fail to identify that something is missing at the same time. Solipsistic Cognitive Dissonance. Of course the species won’t actually go extinct; what will happen is that the last human society to reject the FI will conquer and rule the world. Violence is the ultimate arbiter of everything.] I can tell you exactly what the remaining sane and normal (that is, male dominated) societies will do, as soon as complex bots like sexbots are in the… Read more »
Oh, I see. I would call that ‘being unrepressed.’ It’s just kinda how you look at it. When you aren’t repressing any urges or thoughts, you come across congruently moment-to-moment, and people feel they’re connecting with the ‘real you.’
Yes, exactly.
Cyfox –
Badpainter is exactly right. I’ve had my share and been married almost 21 years. At one time long ago I thought perhaps I could mold my wife into a “partner”. It can never happen. True partners see eye to eye and empathize on all levels of concern. You can strive and achieve to join in a mutually complementary consort, but partnership in the sense of complete mutual empathy, you will never experience. It is not possible because you are not the same as her and she is not the same as you.
“Gerry! Cover the flank. You got Scythians coming up the right!” “I’m on it, Abdul. Shut up!” Gerry turned his head, the Egyptian sands glaring in his eyes. Sure enough, the Scythian riders were swarming down the dunes at him, their forms shifting in the heat. He could hear the dull, rhythmic drone of hundreds of hooves beating sand. He turned back to where the bulk of the Scythian and Egyptian armies were marching steadily toward them, their armor and weapons glinting in sequence. Their battle lines looked like an enormous, writhing snake. Already a few arrows fell in the… Read more »
Yeah it’s about time to do another recording. Lemme take some time to actually get all the other crap (website, etc) up and running. Might also be changing service providers, as I’m not pleased with a few things about the current one.
@Forge – The comment you made about the joy women can bring is spot on but in my experience women have become less and less generous in spirit and I see less and less of that kind of behavior. One of the most disgusting aspects of the modern, independent (lol) woman is how stingy she is with her affection and joy. Many are sour and just can’t relax enough even let that fun, sweet feminine energy bubble up. They also just are so focused on trying to be like men and their sense of their own supremacy that it doesn’t… Read more »
@ Badpainter “Feminism is actually about giving lesbians full sexual access to as many women as possible. Especially the young hot ones that most often are the desirable objects of men’s pursuit. The effects you describe are less a goal than a tool to drive men away and drive toward the loving arms of the nearest Dworkinesque dyke.” In that case lets, give them young hot bots. That should solve this issue too. “More than one wife.” Amen, only if you want to have kids and stable house for it. Without the welfare of kids, the females can come and… Read more »
“I have been observing since many recent threads, you have been pissed off a lot nowadays. Not complaining, just noting. Even the admission that you would not marry/LTR in this marriage market. You had a lot of optimism and were more cheerful in your articles of 2012 to 2014 about teaching men how to ride a tiger rather than swallowing the gun.” Why is the choice to not marry in this market necessarily a pessimistic choice? Shivas conflating that choice with pessimism reveals several fallacies. Marriage or LTR is preferable or should be preferable to multiple relationships? An LTR is… Read more »
“MGTOWs are neither blind to change nor irredeemable.”
Maybe so. However they have expressly established personal denial of reality because try as they may there is no real MGTOW. They remain men in this dynamic like it or not. They have no where to go. They are still men born into this and subject to the influences and powers herin as long as they live. Suicide is the only way out. They are subject to the way of the universe no matter how they attempt to pretend to themselves they can create another of their own design.
“BTW, how do MGTOW’s feel about Fembots? Does it violate the MGTOW code to have a woman simulation in your life if she can’t fuck you over like a real woman would?” Sandman(MGTOW) has been blabbering about bots and artificial womb for many months now. He advocates both of them. MGTOWs generally like anything that minimizes female dependency even if its a fantasy. Never heard of any antibot sentiment. The core code of MGTOW is going Galt. Starve the beast, walk away with your wallet and withdraw your consent from the system. Some do LTR but are ready to drop… Read more »
MGTOW is understandable and I empathize. Been there done that and not above doing it again. However, I must admit it includes at least a small element of running away from ones own fuck ups as much as running away from the game itself. The rules of the game and the intent of the players change for no one and certainly not for quitters. There are always new players and no quitter is missed. Quitters are quickly forgotten as new players entertain and rarely are they welcomed back to the same arena with equal respect.
“Why is the choice to not marry in this market necessarily a pessimistic choice? Shivas conflating that choice with pessimism reveals several fallacies. Marriage or LTR is preferable or should be preferable to multiple relationships? An LTR is more fulfilling ants satisfying than multiple relationships? ” Even I do not favor marriage and LTR over plating or anything else. His earlier articles were more in tune of as a man if your give a real performance mostly everything will fall in place. This has been amongst the first acknowledgement that the pool is dirtier. My point is Rollo’s approach w.r.t… Read more »
“MGTOW is understandable and I empathize. Been there done that and not above doing it again. However, I must admit it includes at least a small element of running away from ones own fuck ups as much as running away from the game itself. The rules of the game and the intent of the players change for no one and certainly not for quitters. There are always new players and no quitter is missed. Quitters are quickly forgotten as new players entertain and rarely are they welcomed back to the same arena with equal respect.” I look at MGTOW as… Read more »
I think it’s kind of telling that Doc and ‘Eleanor’ decided to comment right after I asked Paeleon (and the panel) what aspects of men and women are inherent complements of the other. The moment I propose the idea that men and women evolved to be symbiotic, the idea that women may hold a benefit for men beyond the sexual, that’s when the attacks come – directly in Doc’s case and indirectly in sockpuppet form from “Eleanor”. I even went so far as to hedge my assertions by asking why men even wanted something more in spite of women’s self-commodification… Read more »
“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.”
F. Scott Fitzgerald
@Shiva I understand. Thanks for the responses. I have an uncle who is 87. His wife died about 10 years ago and he has dated numerous women since. He is somewhat of an anomaly. A few girlfriends after his wife also died. So…he started dating younger women. His current gal is in her early fifties. He’s robbing the cradle LOL. I Mention him because although he is an anomaly, he still represents the potential for many men. Life is more enjoyable dating around, having different experiences with different women, just getting out there and trying rather than isolating oneself. There… Read more »
“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.”
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Maybe because such intelligence realizes such opposition is relative and therefore a fluid dynamic is at play that facilitates maneuverability.
@Shiva “Unlike you, most of the manosphere and all of the society does not teach a man to take on burden of performance from his mental of origin so that he could demonstrate high value in a society without external validation while maintaining his frame at all times.” On fucking point… “A man is almost never born a MGTOW, only some incident personal or close to a loved one make a man MGTOW(red piller).” True for me. “Can’t expect them to start new careers, can’t be expected to lift weight if they never done so, at this age. Let them… Read more »
From a purely physical argument, I’d argue that one inherent complementary function women should be providing is comfort to their men. Men are the energetic ones, men are the ones whose raw power output on a daily basis generally exceeds any woman. This is demanded of them. Who is the sex who is asked to mow the lawn, trim the hedges, etc? Men are. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that role, but if that role is going to exist, than the complementary role is one of making that (oftentime backbreaking) labor more comfortable. Here’s a specific example that comes to… Read more »
“What do women bring?” Which women? Mary Bailey is not some crack whore on the street. Women of correct temperament bring class, charm, and warmth to social engagement. They are cheerful, fun to bring around, focus on building social connections, match-make. They decorate your home, can intuitively sense when you need a cup of tea or a beer, and make you a priority. They know when you may need words of encouragement or need time to yourself. They organize the immediate social group properly. They ensure the children are fed and clothed, they identify the families in need and ensure… Read more »
@Scribbler: “They look so pathetic, all dolled up, accessorized to the hilt, for what? Each other?”
That’s what they’ll tell you. What do we know about what women tell us? Now, let’s not always see the same hands.
@Shiva: “Can’t expect them to start new careers, can’t be expected to lift weight if they never done so, at this age.”
I can and do, but then I had an uncle who retired at 100 and went back to college so he wouldn’t be just sitting around waiting to die.
I think it’s kind of telling that Doc and ‘Eleanor’ decided to comment right after I asked Paeleon (and the panel) what aspects of men and women are inherent complements of the other. Eh. Maybe. I figure that “Doc” is either Bites under another handle or some other aging, 2nd stage feminist. Notice “Doc”‘s choice of femsplaining targets, for example. If “Doc” truly decided to muddy the waters after your query, it may well have been due to the word “complementary” which has become a trigger not only for the feministas but also for some of the conservative feminists. It’s… Read more »
Beta guy, My wife is also thought of by my friends as a well above average wife. And she is, I’m sure. But yeah, compare her to my mother or grandmother? No comparison at all. I was thinking about this today, how low I have set the bar for acceptable wife behaviors. So low. My grandfather would of never tolerated it. Never. Unacceptable then is above average now? And it takes SO LITTLE to please most men…myself anyway. It really is not that hard. It makes the sacrifice that is marriage look pointless. Utterly pointless. Scolded my wife for some… Read more »
Hey Forge the Sky, regarding your comments: September 24th, 2015 at 1:02 pm First of all, you spelled complimentary wrong. It’s complementary. This adjective implies polarity. It is not slippery to think about it is slippery to grab onto and get a hold of. ScribblerG really summarized it well. Modern Feminism is certainly sucking the joy out of women, simply because is drawing women toward the mean and not the polarity in an inter-sexual relationship that is energizing. The feminine is a sublime energy source for the masculine. You Forge, got the essence of why you seek the feminine Joie… Read more »
@Forge But, uh, you have to understand that this pisses the but-hurt gamma white knights off because in such a system they would have no access to women. Alphas (whether by economics or personality) with multiple wives, many more betas with none. Polygynous sects have very high excommunication rates – for men. In past times, they would have been sent out to die on battlefields, or would have become human chattel. Wrong, completely wrong. First, it’s the response of men who already didn’t have access to women. Gammas hold to the fantasy that when the right one comes along they’ll… Read more »
I’m probably going to do a full post on this, but consider this:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently
@Sun Wukong “Yeah it’s about time to do another recording.” Damn Right. I miss talking to you. You set into motion a few inspiring manosphere ideas that motivated me after the May 17th Roundtable. I was coming off a great weekend hanging out with another spectacular group of guys and when I sat down to talk to you and Forge I had a lot of dopamine coursing through my brain. And then I had way too many sips of bourbon during that session (Umm, sorry?). And one thing led to another. That seems like eons ago. Notice I haven’t drunk… Read more »
@SJF
“The way of men really is the way of the gang. Thanks.”
Amen
@SJF:
Hearing other’s success stories is very encouraging. This morning I celebrated 40 days and 40 nights of nofap, no porn. No drinking in 3 weeks.
I have had so much more energy and accomplished more during that time than I ever imagined I could. Beautiful morning out. Rock on!
@Andy & Forge The Sky Thanks for the encouragement! As much as I bitch, odds are good that I’ll be approaching again in a month or two. If there’s one thing I’ve learned about myself in the past couple years, it’s that my moods tend to be cyclical – if I’m unsure of myself now, then I’ll be confident later. Likewise, if I’m confident now, then I’ll be unsure of myself later…it always ebbs and flows. I’m too attached to my hope of getting laid to ever fully cut myself off from approaching. @Rollo I think it’s kind of telling… Read more »
I’m not sure anyone has mentioned shopping. Women are wired for that. Most men hate it. Someone was saying something about feminine energy. I’m not a mystical person or anything, but it’s a good way to describe it. Making a pretty girl giggle is kind of addicting.
@ Jeremy “erections and male arousal in general are a physical reality that I as a man cannot turn off” You think so? I think You and all men can.”Yes,we can” What you wrote furnishes me a fit occasion to say what I wanted to say anyway. Nearly all ideas I have when reading “the rational male” sooner or later are uttered by someone else,thus making it superfluous doing it myself. But now and before you are endlessly (and-admitted-interestingly) talking about fulfilling the male sex drive with fembots,3-d porn etc. and completely ignoring another possible solution for the male sex… Read more »
@Bob:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/27/pathologizing-the-male-sexual-response/
Testosterone is not poison. Convincing you that it is is a control measure of the Feminine Imperative.
pathologizing natural male desire sort of plays right into 3rd wave feminist hands does it not?
Thanks for that Bob.
Didn’t I meet your at a testicular cancer support group?
And then, something happened. I let go. Lost in oblivion. Dark and silent and complete. I found freedom. Losing all hope was freedom.
http://i.imgur.com/wwN07.jpg
@Bob
All human energy is sexual.
While I have to admit to finding chemical castration tempting for the simple thought that “If I could forget about women for a couple years, I’d get so much shit done”, I know it would leave me unmotivated to do anything. In taking my sex drive away I would defeat my own purpose for taking it away.
Take away a man’s sex drive and you take away everything that makes him a man. No thanks.
But what if there was a possibility to TEMPORARILY reduce or even remove a man’s sex drive-for one week or one month,for example (like the pill for females suppresses their ability to get pregnant) Wouldn’t that be a very desirable option for men? It would reduce or even remove men’s sexual dependence on women too. It would depend on the side effects. Since testosterone plays such a huge role in horniness, you would theoretically have to suppress it to reduce the sex drive. This, in turn, would likely interfere with a man’s overall motivation and his comfortability taking risks. It… Read more »
@SJF – My favorite book on sales? Hope is not a Strategy by Rick Page. A master course in dealing with complex organizational dynamics effectively. Hope is a delusion for children and something a high performing man can ill afford. Pragmatic optimism is the way of resilience for a man who is up to something in his life, hope if is for people who believe in magic. As for me doing the AMOG thing here, it’s interesting for me to hear things like that. As I’ve noted before (a note to others here, when you reference previous comments/threads @Forge like… Read more »
G.,
My hope lines were from Fight Club movie ain ref to the character Bob with the big tits in that movie.
Re: AMOG I viewed you as such earlier in the most positive of light. And I capitalized on Rollo’s advice in his earlier essay. i.e.make friends with the AMOG as a valuable game tool. Damn glad I did.
@Shiva – Jesus, I cannot figure out what you are on and on and on and on about so I stopped reading your peculiar commentary. Your last swipe at me about how I can’t stop doing the same thing over and over again just made me laugh. Let me straighten you out, you arrogant ponce. I’m not doing anything on autopilot. I enjoy women, they cause me almost no sorrow these days. I choose how I behave, but I also acknowledge my true self and my own desires. Hell, I don’t just acknowledge them, I honor them. I treat what… Read more »
@scribblerg
Reading your progress and transformation is amazing to behold.
@SJF – You crafty bastard, he he. Yeah, we all gotta be who we gotta be. Being dominant is cool if one does so wisely. And I got the hope reference from Fight Club, I should have made clearer that I was offering a different distinction rather than reproaching you. I’m fucking about while I need to be working, should have re-read before clicking post. You sound great man. I just listen mostly to this married guy/LTR stuff cuz it’s not my scene. I’m learning a lot. Complementarity is a given, the question is can I establish and maintain a… Read more »
Man…….with all the pedantry regarding sexbots I’m seeing in this comment section, I believe some of y’all need to be getting laid more. Methinks if you were getting more strange, you wouldn’t care so much about about getting back at women.
Learning game is like learning how to fish……you can always provide for yourself. Once you understand how to get what you want from women, you lose the bitterness.
@SJF
“Bob. Bob had bitch tits.”
Best opening line for a scene in the history of mankind.
@ScribblerG “The comment you made about the joy women can bring is spot on but in my experience women have become less and less generous in spirit and I see less and less of that kind of behavior. “One of the most disgusting aspects of the modern, independent (lol) woman is how stingy she is with her affection and joy. Many are sour and just can’t relax enough even let that fun, sweet feminine energy bubble up. They also just are so focused on trying to be like men and their sense of their own supremacy that it doesn’t occur… Read more »
Dalrock had a pretty good post about the feminist attitude towards expressing love:
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2014/01/01/feminists-are-ugly/
@adbg “What awaits for the rest of men is not pretty.” Doesn’t have to be we are adapting. http://www.hulu.com/watch/441784 @caveclown “It makes the sacrifice that is marriage look pointless. Utterly pointless.” Yeah at this point that seems valid to say. How are you holding up by the way? @Rollo Tommasi That is why your question at the dinner table about everyone’s secret was really getting at. “Cooking is an act of love, an act of service to others.” I don’t try to explain why I enjoy cooking it’s something I miss up at more than anything. But I very much… Read more »
Rollo […] “It’s quite striking how complementary the brains of women and men really are,” Ruben Gur, a co-author on the study, said in a statement. “Detailed connectome maps of the brain will not only help us better understand the differences between how men and women think, but it will also give us more insight into the roots of neurological disorders, which are often sex-related.” Hormones like T and E are very powerful. Here is a link to a study where a small number of men and women who chose surgical mutilation… er….”sexual reassignment surgery” …eh, whatever…had brain MRI scans… Read more »
Thanks, Pell. Good to see you made your way over here as well.
You’re a natural, and in most things I reckon true expertise becomes an issue of losing bad habits rather than learning good ones.
Harder job!
I would be interested in hearing from any females reading (with the exception of IB) what Forge the Sky said @5:48. What do you think about that. What would you think if it were you that was indicted with what he expressed? (Esp. any 50 y.o. women out there.)
@Rollo One of Dalrock’s best IMHO. When my parents travel, I go to their house and cook for my sisters. I’m quite good at it. If I can’t, they’ll get takeout. They’re grown. WTF. At least one of them can bake. Thing is, all the feminine instincts are still there. They’re sweet, submissive, eager to please. Until you make them the least bit aware of it. One of them will help with dishes – heck, will do them for you if you need it – cheerfully. Until you make the least joke about women and kitchens, then she’ll storm out… Read more »
@Forge Girls have lost the art of speaking to and interacting with men. They have no ‘girl game.’ They don’t know how to make men happy. And they wonder why their relationships are miserable. My ex was the first relationship where I’d felt true joy from the first moment I met her. The first time I saw her in person, I opened my eyes from quietly meditating sitting outside, and this gorgeous young women blushed while ducking her head and giggling nervously. As I guided her in the door, to talk and eat, she bounced her step with a huge… Read more »
I think most are still capable of it, but you have to force them basically to do it to keep you around. There are vast differences in their capability to it though. Which leads to the question if the importance of “female game” for attraction to men is underestimated in the manosphere (in relation to looks of course)?
@lh Which leads to the question if the importance of “female game” for attraction to men is underestimated in the manosphere (in relation to looks of course)? No. The manosphere is about “What can I do to improve my results with women?” and should only be about that. You can’t ever fix what women do to improve their relationships with men. We only control our own actions in the end. Nobody else’s. Their behavior is not our responsibility. The manosphere overlooks girl game because they can do absolutely nothing about it. They can only encourage men to incentivize it. Women… Read more »
Of course we can’t tell them what to do. They’ll have to “just get it”, it’s just the same. My question was about whether we men should openly acknowledge that good female game is worth points on the HB scale.
@agentp “pathologizing natural male desire sort of plays right into 3rd wave feminists hands,doesn’t it? That unfortunately strongly reminds me of the notorious communist phrase “objectively helps the class enemy” You are simply wrong.First-and VERY important: I DON’T want to “pathologize natural male desire”. My idea is that men should be able to control and “manipulate” it according to their own (and ONLY to their own) wishes and interests. That means men at any given moment should be able to be as horny as they want to be and as they are able to satisfy their horniness in an acceptable… Read more »
@Bob
Living in denial of biological reality doesn’t make you more perceptive than me. It just makes you a dumbass.
@Bob: “So why are they doing that-is that a “control measure of the feminine imperative”? No,they are doing it mainly to stop hair loss in order to not worsen their chances with women,right? So these men are deliberately lowering their testosterone level in order to improve their chances with women! ”
Do you read what you write?
Bob would fit right in with every intolerant group in history, finding justification for medically/chemically/physically altering large sections of the population against their will just because their inherent traits are deemed “undesirable” by others. Of course, he doesn’t believe this is intolerance. To him this is merely “correcting a mistake” of human biology, he’s doing the inherently “good” work of equalists. He doesn’t see this as hatred towards others because, well, men are inherently evil patriarchal oppressors of women.
I wonder if he’s read mein kampf.
Thank you badpainter and not born this morning. I’m sure empathy exists in this world, just not from the feminine imperative.
“I only wish I could have the kind of attraction with hotties I have with the early-mid 30s single moms who were once hot and are now mildly attractive. She coulda had me in her prime. Maybe I’ll plate her now… I dunno. Tired of the only options I get to fuck being my second or third choices.” Upward spiral it, man. If you can get to a point where the hot 20-somethings are your second or third choices, they may see ya differently 😉 In the end, you have to feel entitled to your first choices. But it don’t… Read more »
@lh “Of course we can’t tell them what to do. They’ll have to “just get it”, it’s just the same. My question was about whether we men should openly acknowledge that good female game is worth points on the HB scale.” I certainly think it is. I give my old oneitis 1.5-2 points for great girl game, frankly. Too bad it dissolved into neurosis once ya got to know her better. I’m not the only one either; she’s cute, sure, but the sort of male attention she got was just crazy. She was a 7 but men, if they talked… Read more »
“I give my old oneitis 1.5-2 points for great girl game, frankly.” Very similiar for me. And without her game I would never have come close to anything Oneitis anymore for sure. So there is a very real problem: Many have observed how it’s the ~7s who are the bitchiest. With proper game they could easily compete with higher levels but they go for that bitch-game instead, trying to copy da BadBoyz and their game. I think it’s much like the BP-betas game is off to the female, these girls also got confused by the dissolution of masculinity / feminity… Read more »
Interesting article. While I think technology may help solve some problems, I also think we are in a evolutionary trap of our own making.
Fewer marriages, fewer births and ultimately fewer people. Most of the readers in this blog are probably part of the minority, educated american men. The patriarchal societies (islam, mormons, amish, orthodox jews) have much higher birth rates and probably over time will inherit the earth.
Hypergamy probably will peak when technology peaks. The patriarchal societies don’t seem to care much about technology.
“Many have observed how it’s the ~7s who are the bitchiest. With proper game they could easily compete with higher levels but they go for that bitch-game instead” My buddy mentioned this the other day and commented about it on Heartiste. And Roissy referenced this in a previous article. I think this might be timely for Sun, Forge and lh to skip the HB6’s and shoot higher on cold approaches: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/why-you-should-hit-on-hot-girls-out-of-your-league/ Random topic alert: 1. Speaking of cooking, I have fifty pounds of fresh venison and I’m going to grill up some Swedish venison burgers with chopped pickled beets, dill… Read more »
Forge,
“And we men walk around in a world inhabited by the cold eyes and stiff necks of unhappy women, their voices shrieking like ice where there should be tones of music and warmth, and we jump at every kindness in case it conceals a manipulation. We drink the shame they pour on us until our mouths grow bitter with it and our hands threaten to lash out.”
Eloquent brother… Do you compile your stuff, have a blog, because if not you should. Your insights/comments are one of the best reasons to hang here. Thanks.
Bob,
“Or,as the great philosopher Megan Fox put it,”women have the power because they have the vaginas”.
Do you have a link to that clip? I’d love to see it, considering the lowlife twat she revealed herself to be at the first debate. I’m glad there were at least direct signals like this earlier on…..that a man not mesmerized by her overt sluttiness, might have picked up on.
Bob,
Re: everything else you have to say – wtf? I’ve only got 80-85%T left and there is no conceivable benefit to lowering it in any circumstance. If yours is such a burden – just think Andre Johnson and go for it…
Bob, why do you want men to be less manly, less able to think clearly, more emotional…more womanly? That is the effect of lowering testosterone. It’s seen in aging men, it’s seen in men with endocrine dysfunction, and it’s been seen in men taking prescribed medications that lower T. Look at the study I posted the link to, men who are fed estrogens have reduced brain mass. Yes, it’s a small set. It’s still good data. By the way, I’ve been seeing ads for Propecia and other finisteride compounds for years, and they don’t mention all the side effects, such… Read more »
” . . . all the side effects, such as possible permanent dysfunctions . . .” Rule 1 of physiology, ignored by most people, including most medical doctors, is that the state of an organism is the way it is because it must be that way in order to maintain life sustaining homeostasis. Attempting to force one aspect of the organism’s state necessarily results in all other aspects having to change to maintain a new homeostatic balance. This usually has unexpected results, some of which might be considerably more harmful than the state which was being “corrected.” For instance, it… Read more »
longgone, you’re conflating Meg(y)ans with Fox(News)es. Bob’s bitch tits are best ignored (he’s vapid) despite kfg’s excellent note.
@kfg, Are you me? …. Well, I suppose I would have used ‘homeodynamics’ instead of ‘homeostasis’ to reflect the ever-fluctuating rates and levels of most physiological processes, and talked a bit about the capability of adaptogenic complexes to expand this homeodynamic range, but eh I’m a nerd 😉 And ‘eat right’ is actually fairly complicated in an environment wherein we’ve changed so many things about the production and acquisition method that it’s no longer clear what’s affecting what. It’s likely, for example, that eating a wide diversity of soil bacteria is necessary for optimal health – they train the immune… Read more »
There’s a lot of straw manning going on against Bob’s post here. At no point did he say “wouldn’t it be great if we could lower our testosterone?” He said, “wouldn’t it be great if we could control our sex drive?” Now, I don’t think the odds are very good that you can inhibit libido without also suppressing testosterone…but as far as I’m aware, not much research has been done on the subject. It’s theoretically possible that we could find some combination of hormonal therapy or some kind of drug that manages to suppress sex drive without also suppressing testosterone… Read more »
@longgone
Thank you.
I don’t really do anything except comment here and appear on the Man’s Roundtable. I’m not sure how YaReally accomplished his compiler and I tend to write books not blogs. Heh, maybe someday but I tend to be too wide-brained to keep on a consistent message or topic.
@Pellaeon, Bob
“Also, at no point did he say that he thought the government or any external cultural authority should be able to force it on men. He said, for those who desire to suppress their sex drive, especially due to inability to get laid, wouldn’t it be good if they had that choice?”
Actually not a new idea. Monks were, understandably, particularly interested in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitex_agnus-castus
“I suppose I would have used ‘homeodynamics’ instead of ‘homeostasis’ . . .”
Yeah, well, ya know, by the theory of limits 2+2=3 for sufficiently low values of 2.
You might have noticed that I tend to drop “sound bites” here, rather than article length in depth analysis. I hope that they at least promote thought in the right direction by being of higher quality than the crap you’ll find in Men’s Health.
If a sex drive suppressant could be discovered with minimal side effects, and one that did not inhibit one’s motivation for non-sexual conquests
I doubt that’s chemically feasible.
Pellaeon what you are voicing is simply having a Buffer for dealing with real masculine life. I find that men who use too many buffers in real life turn in to pussies. Which is the same end result as Bob’s proposal. I say the 19 year old should go out and engage as a masculine male. Deal with it and get through it and come out the other side a better masculine male. In the spirit of “Nothing Rollo Hasn’t Written About” (You can substitute the word Testosterone for Rejection if you like) from Buffers: “At this point you might… Read more »
Forgot to add:
“It’s theoretically possible that we could find some combination of hormonal therapy or some kind of drug that manages to suppress sex drive without also suppressing testosterone and all of the beneficial effects it has.”
No. Your premise is wrong. It is not theoretically possible.
@Forge the sky “In the end, this is true: all physiological processes impact each other; and physiological processes cannot be fundamentally divided from the environments – psychological, sociological, ecological – in which they function. If you try to create a circumstance wherein one factor is changed, out of congruence with the rest, you will eventually have to pay the piper.” Amen brother amen doing a hackathon for the VA administration and drank red bull for the first time and haven’t gotten a lot of sleep. This will effect me in the negative. Balance and moderation I see as spiritual aspects… Read more »
The problem of male sexual drive is only problematic because of the culture and society we live in. The crux of the problem is easy living generally where masculinity is not requisite for survival, and procreation is no longer seen as essential. The issue isn’t suppressing sex drive but rather how to channel male energy toward positive productive goals individually that have collateral benefits in aggregate for society. When raw physicality is not necessary for basic survival that energy will focus on the few permissible outlets, which have been reduced to sex, sports, and manual labor. When all labor was… Read more »
@Pellaeon “As far as I understand,this is ALL that Bob is saying.He DID NOT say that male sex drive is toxic,nor did he say that testosterone is a liability.He simply proposed that it could be helpful to discover a drug that allows a man to lower his sex drive during times that he wants to focus on other things” All you wrote is EXACTLY what I wanted to say.And I even mentioned shorter periods-one month or one week of reduced sex drive.Maybe just some days during the week and a normal sex drive on weekends… Do you know where I… Read more »
@Bob
Where do you live? From what I understand you can always channel your sex drive in your mission in life at the moment whatever that may be. It also helps to laugh at one self when things don’t go according to plan.
SFG,
Thanks, that would be Megyn Kelly hahaha. thx. And I wasn’t even drinking….
@Bob: “It would be interesting to know if anybody here opposes this practice . . . ” I have been appalled by it for decades. 50 years ago the use of Dexedrine and Benzedrine was quite common as well. I rejected a professional athletic career to avoid taking that shit and the way it is forced onto children is a social disgrace. @Rugby: “From what I understand you can always channel your sex drive in your mission in life at the moment whatever that may be.” I’ve never had any problem doing that at all. When I was practicing fiddle… Read more »