(h/t Zelscorpion for the screen cap)
In Women Behaving Badly I made mention of Dalrock’s standing assertions that the context of romantic love has superseded the condition of a committed monogamy – traditionally marriage – as an idealized goal-state. Essentially this represents a reversal of a previous intersexual dynamic that served as a check and balance of women’s innate Hypergamy:
What nearly all modern Christians have done is place romantic love above marriage. Instead of seeing marriage as the moral context to pursue romantic love and sex, romantic love is now seen as the moral place to experience sex and marriage. This inversion is subtle enough that no one seems to have noticed, but if you look for it you will see it everywhere.
Lifetime marriage, with separate defined roles for husband and wife and true commitment is what makes sex and romantic love moral in the biblical view. In our new view, romantic love makes sex moral, and the purpose of marriage is to publicly declare that you are experiencing the highest form of romantic love. Thus people now commonly refer to a wedding as “making our love official”.
The gradations we now apply to romantic love are symptomatic of the problem. We take great care to distinguish between “pure love” or “true love” and mere “infatuation” or “puppy love”.
[…] Because it is love and not marriage which now confers morality upon sex, sex outside of marriage is now considered moral so long as you are in love. Thus we have the modern harlot’s defense/anthem “but we were in love!”
I think what Dal was getting at with this (and I hope he’ll comment) has a much broader reach than just in Christian (“Churchian”) culture. I think this raising of romantic love to the highest order is more punctuated in a religious context because, doctrinally, it should be the reverse. In an objective secular context this reversal is all but taken for granted.
In an age of feminine social primacy women’s feelings of romance are at a premium. We matter of factly presume that it’s a man’s responsibility to not only invest himself in, and provide resources for, his wife and children’s wellbeing, but it’s also (almost exclusively) his burden of performance to stimulate and maintain his wife’s romantic interests.
I’ve argued the position that women (of today) don’t find the ‘good guy‘ – a man attempting to embody the best aspects of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks – a believable role. My assertion is that women expect and desire those aspects in different men at different times as needed, however, the social narrative still places that “best of both aspects” burden on a man who does commit to a woman in the long term.
With the exception of only the most adept, affluent and exceptional of men, this expectation is a sisyphean recipe for failure. No matter which aspect he excels in the other aspect potentially becomes his personal flaw. Although his personal strengths may compensate, feminine-primary social expectations place him in a no-win position.
Wives Hate Sex
Badpainter and Sun Wukong had an interesting exchange in this week’s comment thread:
Newgal states clearly women must be sluts for men to get laid. This also means women must be sluts for women to get laid. Why must that be true? Because Newgal alludes to a dirty little truth so ingrained in the social consciousness it’s a cliché: wives hate sex. Therefore women, sluts and otherwise, get married so they can stop having sex except as necessary to get pregnant.
Think about it.
The girlfriend provides sex good enough to motivate a desire in the man to commit. After the wedding is a period of at least adequate sex followed by a decline to little or nothing if she can get away with this. When the wife becomes suitably frustrated/disenchanted with the marriage she changes title to divorcée and is again free to become a sexual creature.
The source of the problem is that women have very little sense of self that is internally derived therefore they play roles defined externally. These roles are proxies for their identities which barely exist. In 2015 wives are not defined as sexually giving, or sexual at all except for the honeymoon period. If the sexual wife exists in this culture it as the adulteress giving herself to men other than her husband.
Sun Wukong
Oh absolutely. The wife that hates sex is such a “thing” now I really think it’s what makes even Blue Pill guys at least pause on their way to the altar. “Do I really want to put a libido draining fat license on her finger?” I think that premise is largely built out of feminine cynicism about settling for [Beta Bucks]. They all know the script so well that they assume they’re going to marry a guy they don’t want to fuck. Imagine that: assuming you’re going to hate sex for the rest of your life.
What a horrendously awful view of a man you haven’t even met yet. And he’s not even met you but assumes he’ll be happily making love to you for the rest of his life and you’ll do the same. What a disconnect. Oh well, at least the kids will be happy right? Anybody?
What Badpainter and Sun have illustrated here is the direct result of placing a romantic condition for love as the prime requisite for a committed relationship. It’s important to grasp that any relationship founded on genuine desire will necessitate genuine passion and not a small amount of feral lust, however, it is exactly this pre-commitment (Alpha Fucks) sexual chemistry that will later become the exclusive responsibility of a man in that commitment.
The character that is a wife is now socially and popularly expected to move into a sexless, passionless and unexciting condition by being married today. All Epiphany Phase rationalizations aside, marriage is viewed as the end of the party. Being a wife is boring by comparison.
I explored this in detail in Beta Fucks and As Good As It Gets, but what I find ironic in light of Dalrock’s assertions about romance-primary intergender dynamics is that the very pretense of that romantic “true love” context that supposedly legitimizes sex is killed within the confines of marriage. In fact, women expect and anticipate that the sexual desire they find so important in that romantic context will necessarily die once they become a ‘wife’.
The pretext of being a ‘wife’ is a socially excusable expectation of progressively losing sexual affinity for the man she’s agrees to marry, so what woman wants to be a wife? Women become wives due to the necessities an ever-decreasing capacity to maintain being a lover requires of them.
I expect that most women will disagree with me on a personal level; it’s not in women’s best interest to acknowledge that wives hate sex – perpetuating the belief that sex gets better after marriage is a necessity men need to internalize in order to commit. Whether or not this is true for a woman on a personal basis isn’t my point. The point is that the societal message is one that marriage will necessarily kill a couples’ passionate sexual connection in comparison to their single, romance-based sexual connection.
Why ruin a perfectly good relationship with marriage?
The Myth of Mismatched Libidos
Once married, there are myriad social conventions already emplaced for a wife to rely upon as she moves from exciting singleness into mundane, but necessary, long-term commitment. Most of these she’s already been conditioned to expect she can rely on. ‘Mismatched Libidos’ is a common refrain for women (and marriage counselors) who come to a point where they can no longer palate the “duty sex” they felt responsible for in the beginnings of their marriage.
Her husband isn’t expected to provide the ‘tingles, but he’s still responsible for the failure to create them. As I said, only the most exceptional of men can effortlessly inspire the admiration necessary to maintain a woman’s Hypergamous interest. If you have a read of the screen cap Zel provided us with for this post you’ll get an idea of how those pre-made social conventions work in tandem with men’s default responsibility of satisfying a woman’s endless discontent.
The deference is always to the feminine, thus any problem (particularly sexual ones) he has with her become his personal issues and flaws. Any deviation, any dissatisfaction, with the ready-made social conventions set in place to excuse the female sexual strategy are solely his responsibility and his character flaws.
In last week’s post comments I quoted the following confessional from Love Shack:
My wife called me today and was all excited about some beachfront apartment she saw. She wants us to buy it for vacations and such.
Now here I am .. I just turned 50. My youngest is going to college this year and I guess I just realized that I’m no longer bound to her.
The last 20 years has been a long series of quickies and 3 minutes handjobs every 3-4 weeks. In between, I spent my prime sexual years mostly masturbating to get off. Now that I’m 50, my drive is still good, but it’s not what it was.
I had tried everything I could think of over those 20 years to get things on track. I was exemplary with chores around the house, I was attentive to her emotional needs as far as I could anticipate them, and even if I do say so myself – I’ve kept myself in outstanding shape (although that was more for me).
On the other hand, I look back and I can hardly remember a time that she spontaneously gave me a neck rub, or cooked something just for me as opposed to all of us, and certainly not even attempting to do something special for me sexually (yeah, I have a minor kink or two).
But when she asked me to buy a beachfront place today – my immediate reaction was annoyance. I realized then that I feel resentful. I have decided to leave her. There is absolutely nothing she can do now to change anything because the past cannot be changed.
This man’s situation represents the ending phase of a chronic lack of admiration on his wife’s part. It would be easy to point out his role is one of being the dutiful unconsidered provider in his wife’s Frame, however, consideration is never a motivator of genuine desire for a woman. Only admiration and an ambient imagination of losing the focus of it inspires genuine desire.
Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo had a post recently outlining the expectations of women interested in “seducing” a man. On GWADT’s blog what’s implied is that this man is in fact her husband to begin with. What makes her points so difficult for married women to digest is that they should ever need to make an effort to do so. The reason this is so alien a thought to married women is because the men they wanted to seduce were the men they knew before they became ‘wives’. Wives have no use for seduction, and particularly so with the Beta men they settled for around their Epiphany Phase. Seduction, compassion, appreciation (such as can be expected of a woman) only become a necessity when women are subjected to a real preoccupation with losing a valuable man – a man they admire.
Even in Frank Sinatra’s time wives had to be told to be lovers too.
@Jeremy
Oh I didn’t say she gives a shit about his feelings. She probably doesn’t care if she hurt him. She knows she fucked things up for herself. She knows she tipped her hand, she just doesn’t know how much he saw. A woman in her position only cares about the man’s feelings as far as they influence her future. No further than that.
@midwestboi From my experience: When a woman lies about her sexual past and or her exes and her other affairs…. she is a deceitful, dangerous and should be dumped immediately. These are manipulation techniques. She wants to have her fun her way her shit. You are less than garbage to her. A woman that respects you doesn’t talk to exes. She does not lie. She does not play bullshit. She is your woman. Nothing will change with such a fickle egoistic creature. It is all about her. Does she care about you MWB? Think about it. What woman would be… Read more »
@BuenaVista Five percent of the population are sociopathic monsters. I read somewhere, or heard somewhere recently that a study had found the number of sociopaths among us is actually quite high. I don’t know if the number I heard was 5% or higher, but I recall being somewhat dumbstruck at how prevalent they actually are. It means that literally everyone on earth is likely interacting with a sociopath once a day whether they know it or not. Now, obviously there are multiple degrees and dimensions of such conditions. This doesn’t mean that you’re meeting people who intend to murder every… Read more »
“Life is more than about sex” “Relationships are more than sex” etc. These phrases from women are toxic. My response: “Yes, true. And a car is more than its gas tank. But try to drive a car successfully for any length of time without a gas tank.” Sexless wives deserve their fate when they are cheated on or divorced. They’ll never accept culpability, but they have all the blame nevertheless. That their frigid wives find soul crushing confusion and pain in the end should be cathartic to any man about to make the jump to a mistress or to divorce.… Read more »
@Sun Wukong
You’re right, I was reading too much into that. What an embarrassing display of FI thinking coming from me. Again I fail to grasp the depths of the solipsism.
“(And why wouldn’t a blue pill man be inclined to give his lover or wife “another chance”? Any self-made man makes LISTS of things he must improve, then rationally sets out to do the best he can. He doesn’t say, “I’ll just do the same old shit I know I shouldn’t. And learn how to ask forgiveness and pull heartstrings if I get caught.”)”- buena vista This is huge. No woman I have ever met thinks she did anything to really nuke a relationship as far as who she is and what she thinks she is entitled to. Women will… Read more »
@ Forge the Sky I’m one over, to the west, across the lake. I had some hobby interaction with a “boi” from MI in the past, which is why I had asked. @anon & Jeremy I see what you guys are driving at, and, without the inside dope, I fully recognize the validity of your points regarding my own involvement in the situation. As I was building something in my shop yesterday, I had a while to consider the “litmus test” and validation angles, and reflect on having potentially been “the beta-in-waiting” in the past, and present. I can see… Read more »
@Vulpine
The YOLO crowd are the absolute last people you want to be associating with if you’re homesteading. The worldviews are entirely incompatible, like being a Rabbi in Mecca. Keep your woman away from those people.
Agreed, Jeremy. We interact daily, in some professions, with some dangerous people. They do seem to be overrepresented in certain professions, though, which is an argument for not being in lower Manhattan when the SHTF.
The figure 4-5% is used by professionals. (A buddy runs a hospital for the criminally insane.) To my knowledge it’s not disputed much.
Jeremy:
No doubt, night-and-day. She wants to remain rural, despite her rural friends lusting over the urban lifestyle. We’ve been there, done that, hate it. She can resist some of the toxic crap, but the “travel” stuff? “Boyfriend destroyer” comes to mind, and when it’s dropped by her GF’s? Ultra-harsh.
Interesting. I’ve just started reading some of these posts. It feels a little over-complicated…this story is sadly an old story to me. And I wish that this guy could have seen this woman’s true personality sooner or, taking responsibilty for the actions of others as reactions to our own behaviour, acknowledge the imbalance in the relationship much earlier on and addressed it such that this resentment wouldn’t build. I think the over complication comes in when there’s an analysis of men versus women. I’ve watched many a woman devote her life to loving a man and doing everything she can… Read more »
lol@”the Burninator”
Dammit… *grabs iPod* …now I gotta hear it.
“…burninating all the peoples,
and the thatch-roofed cottages!
THATCH-ROOFed COTTAGES!!!
(Duh-duhn-duhn-duh-DAH,
Duh-duhn-duhn-duh-DAH,
Duh-duhn-duhn-DUN-DAH-DAHNT)!”
“First, you make an “S”. Then, another “S”… ”
lol@”the Burninator”
Nice handle, man, nice.
@Vulpine
Seriously: On the Lyme infections, here is a special ms. for you: have the doc run blood tests to see if any of the strains you got are different. I.E., Rocky Mountain version vs. Applalachian or Pacific. You may need a different treatment protocol (i.e., antibiotic cocktail) for that strain. I know someone this happened to, suffered for years until they tested for a strain from a different region of the USA, found it, and treated it. Unless you’ve already done this.
Should I forgive the lying? She changes her passwords weekly now (FB and Yahoo Messenger) and I’m sure she does what she likes when alone. I have no trust as is. If I ask her, she manipulates the conversation to make me feel like I’m an abuser and a busy body. She keeps claiming it is “just friends” that contact her. But, I dont think it is right. A caring nurturing woman would have stopped this without me saying anything. I guess I should walk away. You guys are right. I told my sister. She keeps claiming I’m jealous and… Read more »
@Jeremy Empathy, which a Blue Pill reality teaches us to have, does have value in the Red Pill view of the world. So long as you stop at the point of understanding others (i.e. sense what they’re feeling but don’t try to identify with it), you can use that knowledge to form a picture of what their next objective(s) might be. Once you know somebody’s objectives, potential behaviors become evident, and your own strategy based on your objectives vs. their objectives and potential actions becomes clearer. I am, of course, still new to this line of thinking and still refining… Read more »
Hey @sunwukong and @Seraph both your post where gold to my mind today and I really appreciate you both for saying what you said.
I suppose also that part of what I’m saying is that all human beings are naturally selfish, even the ones that think they aren’t. We focus on female behavior here, but in the case of selfishness both sexes are equally so. Even the man sacrificing his life to save others is doing so out of his own selfish desires, whether those be to be a hero, to avoid being seen as a coward, or just because he can’t imagine living without the people he’s dying for so he’d rather they live without him. Always assume selfish motivations in all human… Read more »
Thanks, Fred. A battery of tests is definitely in the future. It turns out that there are secondary, “same time” infections that could be possible that have similar, lasting effects. Apparently there is also Babesiosis and Human Granulocytic Anaplasmosis (HGA) that are conveyed by the same vector (ticks). Moreover, many of the issues I’m having are also the symptoms of being infected by hookworm. Since I was running around barefoot in Africa, at night, in dew-covered grass, hookworm is a very real possibility. The bottom of my foot was super-itchy on the plane ride home, so… Indeed, a blood test… Read more »
@Vulpine Heh, thanks man. My son showed me it on YouTube years ago, funny shit. The whole “sexless wives” thing is increasing in volume on the internet every single year, and it by no means was a hard to find topic on the webs even ten years ago. I know the official “whys” of why men put up with it, but on a deep psychological level I can’t help but wonder why in the hell they don’t get up and leave. I get if you have kids and will get frivorce raped, but even then, once they hit 18 you… Read more »
@Wukong
Very interesting. You open my eyes to look at myself in terms of selfishness.
women are made for two reasons
1, for sex.
2,for making babies. and the rest of the bull (love, caring )is irrelevant .
women know that , and that is all what it is.
a man should have ZERO doubt about it.
it is like having a horse who would not let you ride him , do you try to argue with the horse ? no , you get another horse.
when you beg your woman for sex , know damn well it is over .
the moment sex become a commodity , you are finished .
Rollo – happy belated birthday. I listened to the show while traveling last night, and it was great! I particularly enjoyed two things: (1) what you said about low value behavior, and (2) advice for raising children. Wrt low value behavior, one of the worst things a person can do is consistently demonstrate low value behavior (and not realize how bad it makes them look). It speaks volumes upon volumes about the person’s character, and seems to define people who don’t have their shit together. As for monitoring text messages, emails, etc, my first real bf, who, by objective societal… Read more »
@Emily
Thanks for getting on here to tell us what an angel you were and how that hot (9!!!) boyfriend chased your hot behind all over town. You wonderful.angelic creature. Desired by all men….
Guys I think the femiNazis are coming to the table. I’m getting popcorn.
@bigboi
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/6421-michael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif
@Buena Vista:
“Oh, the (two) women I’ve known who have self-destructive, or relationship-destructive, habits know exactly when they’re ‘wrong.’ The challenge is disbelieving them when they say they’ll change….”
(replying to the whole comment, but no sense copying the whole thing) Good perspectives, thanks for that. I suppose their confusion arises not so much because they don’t know they’re doing something wrong but more because they don’t recognize that doing wrong things may have consequences.
@Vulpine:
Sounds like a rough road, man. I’ve had stress-based depression for like 6 months before and that was trial enough. Godspeed.
@Emily L How do you square your last paragraph with your second paragraph? How do you feel about women not giving consideration to men or his feelings? Good? Bad? Indifferent? It’s pretty apparent, not only from your mental poll, but from Rollo’s writing that this is true of feminine nature. I assume you were young and at your peak when you nexted your #9 boyfriend. Going from 9 to zero because of one personality defect (obviously, though, he must have had other flaws). Would you instantly next him for being jealous and not getting over his fears from the last… Read more »
@Emily L
I hoped to think of examples proving otherwise, but if I were to estimate, for every 100 women I know, maybe 1 will genuinely give a hoot about a man/his feelings.
and sjfrellc calls bullshit where it should be called:
How do you square your last paragraph with your second paragraph?
I suspect your estimate includes one too many, if you’re saying that’s you.
Every woman that thinks she’s different is wrong. Very possibly well-intentioned, but still wrong.
Reblogged this on Livefearless and commented:
Why did “The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” by Rollo Tomassi make the Amazon.com top 10 along with Tony Robbins and Timothy Ferriss? Read this truthful post, and you’ll understand. No one has written truths that show the realities men face, until now.
@Emily, sjfrellic, Sun
Is it possible that, as Sun postulates, all individuals are intrinsically selfish and therefore unsympathetic to the feelings of others whether man or woman?
@midwestboi
You’re receiving pure gold, and it’s heartening that you are internalizing the information and taking positive action on your own behalf. I have rarely seen a more focused and helpful thread here at TRM.
At any point during the disconnecting/dumping process (that you are likely going to see all the way through) if you should falter or weaken—just listen to this sound clip for an extra boost of inspirational adrenaline:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/03/the-rush/
Emily demonstrates why a high value man has dread built in and is either actively spinning plates or taking applications. You see a “high value” man is devoid of jealousy, and demonstrates faith in his woman, and tosses her like yesterday’s fish at the first hint of misbehavior, or other other inadequacy. The important part is actively being jealous destroys value, and indicates the man’s dysfunctional value system in that he mate guards directly (spying) rather obliquely (dread). To the woman this looks like trust and faith in her good nature. It is isn’t, rather it’s a positive indifference where… Read more »
When you have that much money you have a target on your back. You get a prenup.
And since prenups in most states aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, the only conclusion to be drawn is that any man of such wealth who seeks marriage is just BEGGING for trouble (or is just plain stupid).
@SweetWater
It’s not necessarily that they’re unsympathetic. It’s that sympathy will only come if/when the sympathizer can relate to your situation, appealing to their selfish nature for some reason. I.e. Rollo puts all this information up for free on the internet and cheap as he can in a book because he can relate to guys having problems with the issues he addresses, and it makes him feel good to do so. His motivations are entirely selfish, yet sympathetic.
Selfishness doesn’t rule out sympathy, it just motivates it in some cases.
Very full thread here. Once we get off the theory and on to the practical (in this case MWB) the whole RP wisdom comes into focus. Many thanks to Rollo and to all commenters here today. Sun, double thumbs up man! As an elder I grew up in a RP world. For awhile that changed as I was exposed to the ideals of ‘equality’ and such. My Dad said late in his life “They really fucked up when they gave them the vote!” I was appalled as I was BP at the time. Funny how much wiser he looks to… Read more »
The issue was empathy. Empathy and sympathy are not the same thing. Empathy might well generate antipathy. As well might being the subject of a demeaning sympathy.
Emily’s first real boyfriend didn’t realize or was unsuccessful in #3 of 48 Laws of Power: Law 3: Conceal your Intentions Keep people off-balance and in the dark by never revealing the purpose behind your actions. If they have no clue what you are up to, they cannot prepare a defense. Guide them far enough down the wrong path, envelope them in enough smoke, and by the time they realize your intentions, it will be too late. So Emily employed Law #36 Law 36: Disdain Things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best Revenge By acknowledging a petty problem… Read more »
“This girl sounds like she’s using you as beta bucks, she doesn’t sound willing to be honest with you. I can’t see how staying with her is at all good for you, especially from what you’ve told us.” Is the takeaway from this mess for me. Being a nasty old Hector, I also suspect she might be at base .. a … a .. Rayciss.Gasp! MWB, you’re the best provider she could wangle and persuade to remain on the subs’ bench, as the Elite WASPy guys I presume she tips her lance at are definitely not interested in getting shackled… Read more »
@midwestboi
Play it cool, let her back and go super beta, after a while when she’s comfortable again KEYLOGGER her equipment and then you’ll have your answer in black and white.
When I pointed that out last time, the rat-faced (HB2 — ugly as sin) woman confangled some story about her mother being a professional I never cease to be amazed at how dense women can be in never realizing that the LAST thing any man finds attractive about a woman is her “profession,” unless she’s a fashion model or an A-list porn star. For example, there is NO greater and faster boner-killer than an attractive looking woman who brags about the fact that she’s a lawyer (unless you’re a lawyer yourself; otherwise only an imbecile tries to take things any… Read more »
Emily’s post is interesting because it’s another example of a woman’s natural game. Women’s in-born habit seems to immediately demonstrate as high SMV as possible upon entering a space they believe is filled with high value males. Men have to learn to do this when dealing with women. Women seem to know this from birth. She had no reason to discuss the attractiveness of her BF, or herself. She did though. Seems like literally every single woman who comments here does this at some point. This is hilarious when you consider it is women who most often express frustration at… Read more »
Speaking of the matrix check this out
http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/jeremy-renner-estranged-wife-settle-custody-dispute/ar-AAaku2Y?ocid=ansentap11
Jeremy – “Imagine if men would never leave women alone.”
But. BUT. But STREET HARASSMENT!!?!!
I guess that’s all just another projection.
To Emily . Here is the more honest version. Wrt low value behavior, one of the worst things a person can do is consistently demonstrate low value behavior (and not realize how bad it makes them look). For example : He put me on a pedestal, he believes all the crazy stuff I say, he really thought I was special, (which I never really believed I was).he never challenge my bullshit, he moves like a snake, I hated it when he trys to sound like a tough guy and I know he is a pussy. ” It speaks volumes upon… Read more »
@sjfrellc April 3rd, 2015 at 5:23 pm I didn’t state that correctly. Emily transgressed (she did not employed)Law #36 after her boyfriend transgressed Law #3 And Mr. Midwestboi, just remember when you want to get laid a few more times employ Law #13 with your ex-fiance. ” Law 13 When Asking for Help, Appeal to People’s Self-Interest,Never to their Mercy or Gratitude If you need to turn to an ally for help, do not bother to remind her of your past assistance and good deeds. She will find a way to ignore you. Instead, uncover something in your request, or… Read more »
sorry for the errors in Law 13, not turning the hims into hers. And the (she did not employ). I hate not having an edit function like on Vbulletin.
@ MrT Quite the breakdown you’ve made. I’m now interested in getting some high value input into why I am still single. Seems this is a good forum to ask. The man I was certain that I would marry broke things off to be “just friends” when I went away for college. I figured that it was just time that he needed to himself and so I waited and indeed, he came to visit and wanted back together. We were each other’s firsts, so I said that I would like that very much, but I would need to know if… Read more »
@Pam “….and even the guy himself says that he was the one who fucked up…” When men speak they do so so literally, not covertly like your girlfriends. Take him at his word. He was not the one for you in a long term relationship. Women control access to their eggs. Unfortunately, men have access to commitment and he was not willing to give you his. Did you not have subtle cues to his lack of commitment during your relationship? Do you think he would marry you at his very young age? Was he a guy who most any girl… Read more »
@badpainter, what you said above is what I’ve been trying to get at basically.
@ANCHORMAN,
No I never said girls don’t “flake” on alphas? What?
Girls flake alllll the time for stupid reasons. Hell. So do I.
Girls will flake on a guy but if she does then she does, oh well. No need to overanalyze it. You realize that with the right girl, the girl who sees you as high value, YOU won’t be overanalyzing like this.
@MIDWEST I HOPE YOU READ THIS.
Has she denied you sex or does she ever say “idk no I have a stomach ache can we not…” Etc.????????
Answer that question. Think. Tell us.
If yes she has->start gaming other girls behind her back and distance emotionally
If not–> slowly let her back
Be honest with yourself. This answer will give you your decision on what to do
@skfrellc Once, when he tried to have some sort of serious talk with me and I sensed it and became sad. He later told me that he had tried to break things off, but I don’t know if he was already doing things or not at that point. There may have been other clues if I try to look at them that way, I guess…sometimes I feel like a naive idiot blissfully believing that he felt the same way as I did. He was very upset when I wasn’t available to talk on the phone every evening (he was in… Read more »
Well that makes me think of this https://books.google.com/books?id=XyQ4REsVaIIC&pg=PA224&lpg=PA224&dq=the+hazards+of+being+male+quotes&source=bl&ots=FU4vegn91G&sig=uJAC_fQtke5tID1a2gkKUWWkDAw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=blEfVaGfNuW1sASWxIGIAw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBw
@Rollo- Happy Birthday,if a bit belated…I finally listened to your podcast with Steve, actually started it after work, but realized it was almost 2 hrs! Anyway, just finished it and I have to say, it was awesome. First off, Steve did a great job as host this time, excellent.. and I hope he reads your comments here and people start chiming in on the interview. He really gave the topic matter the treatment it deserved, the right balance of funny/light and taking it seriously What I really wanted to say though is that every time I hear you in an… Read more »
@Hobbes Brother your last post hit the spot I concur would one day to thank you in person for how much that all resonated with me. It’s weird in a way when Rollo mentioned the mentoring I was thinking about my nephew… The one thing about the burden of performance was what kept me in the blue pill stage for a good chunk of my life. I was around people who kept hurting me for not being myself but something in my monkey brain knew I had to perform. It’s the most underared aspect of the red pill for me.… Read more »
@pam
“Is there somewhere to start to look for where I went wrong?”
to start, what did you do for him?
@Pam
Not to be cliche, but he just wasn’t that into you. Read The Rational Male from front to back and understand what both men and women really need from each other—and how you can optimize your chances to make both worlds align in everyone’s favor (best as can be achieved, anyway). You’ll be happier.
Or, you can go read Jezebel, Cosmo, and watch The View. Of course, that pathway leads only to lots and lots of cats.
I just wrote the most maudlin, depressing post, wow. Got to shake that shit off – been in a dark place lately. End of winter in New Hampshire can get like that. I deleted it and figured I’d just ask other men here? Do you ever get overwhelmed by all this? As an older guy, 52, it’s really hard to look forward to much great for me in a Red Pill world as the only thing more disposable than a man in this world is an “old man”. Perhaps another way to put it is the “selfish prick” phase is… Read more »
@sjfellc “To start, what did you do for him?” At least a few things? I spent a lot of time travelling. Whether it was to his parents’ place when he was home or the hour train ride to his college. I also supported him when I had the opportunity, referring him to my father’s company during one of his co-op placements. And When he was struggling to get off of weed I massaged him down from his stress block. In terms of sordid details, I hate to put it out there, but… I put on a number of “shows”, inciting… Read more »
Pardon me, @redlight! That response was for you
“Is the purpose of life just to pursue pleasure?” There is no purpose of life. Life just is. You just are. Be. “All this feels so empty. ” What you are feeling is the absence of an illusion you wove your life around. It has nothing to do with the state of life itself. It is all what’s not in your head. When your head finds something else to fill itself with the empty feeling will go away. This does not mean that you will find that life has some other grand purpose that you were unaware of, just that… Read more »
@Glenn “I’m interested in how you guys deal with the existential angst of shedding a traditionalist worldview?” Seeing as how “Women do not lack a capacity to sympathize with male hardship or pain, but they categorically lack a capacity to empathize with uniquely male experiences.” in Rollo’s empathy thread, I would suggest the tack to take would be to get a group of vetted guys to hang out with. This tactic has saved me a bit a existential angst that I am not normally prone to. But none of us men are immune to it, what with the social norms… Read more »
” . . . Jack Donovan’s book “The Way of Men” . . .”
Which you can find an echo of in my last sentence.
@Pam April 3rd, 2015 at 11:37 pm “Please be patient with me” Please do not feel like commentators in this blog are mean or will take advantage of your comments or say bad things to you. It is a blog where the vast majority of men have had a crisis due to female hind brains (evolutionary psychology) that don’t sync with today’s society. Basically they have been screwed. And a female lack of empathy for any thing a male experiences. Deti quote: ” Women cannot listen to Men talking about or working out their dating/mating/relationship issues or problems. Women reflexively… Read more »
@kfg “Yeah, but at least we’re the smartest and most capable monkeys, so we’ve got that going for us, which is nice. Do the other monkeys seem concerned about being monkeys? If they aren’t, why should you be? Maybe you just need to find the way to being good at being a monkey.” “” . . . Jack Donovan’s book “The Way of Men” . . .” Which you can find an echo of in my last sentence.” Not buying it kfg. Glenn deserves more advice than “maybe you just find the way to be good at being a monkey”.… Read more »
Edited to add that there is ample evidence in Glenn’s commentaries in the past that he might indeed have been excellent at “being good at being a man”. Hence the need to not tell him what he needs to do in that regard.
But the feminine side didn’t appreciate the good man he was. Because of lack of empathy.
Don’t go seeking empathy from the FI.
@sjfrellc
Thanks, I’ll try not to take things personally.
By mis-matches libido, I haven’t since found a guy who can keep up with me, not vice versa. Sorry for the confusion. I’m not good at talking about it as I come from a small prudish (Christian) town. Since moving for college, I haven’t been able to bond with any women enough to talk openly about it either, so, well, now I’m confused…I can’t imagine getting into a relationship (let alone marrying a guy?!) if you have to act as though you enjoy him physically? Seriously?
” Nor does he need to be told he “needs” to be good at being a man. ” Which is why I did nothing of the kind, although you implied it by recommending both the book and its solution to being good at being a man, so I’m really not sure what the beef is. What I told him was that he was going to have to find his own way, because only he is responsible for it now. “Facts are that he got screwed over by being a “Good Man” . . .” Most of us here have taken… Read more »
She IS my daughter’s age and I can’t follow the line of thought. And it scares me that she is confused. But I know why.
“What I told him was that he was going to have to find his own way, because only he is responsible for it now”
He’s going through existential angst and you say man up?
He asked a question. You gave the wrong answer.
“He’s going through existential angst and you say man up?”
No.
“He asked a question. You gave the wrong answer.”
I’m waiting for his take on that, not yours. It might take a few years for me to get the answer. It’s taken as long as 20 in the past.
And of course he can give his own take on your answer as well, which might resonate with him more. Given that you recommended Jack Donovan’s book and I concur, again, I’m not sure where the beef is.
Read the white knight post. Don’t want to go there, sorry if I elicited that response.
I will keep reading. I don’t think I should have jumped into the forum so quickly.
@pam if you can’t find guys with high sex drives for you than maybe you need to lose weight or something……or your clinging to guys who aren’t interested.
“I’m not sure where the beef is.” Men have enough empathy to recommend to their fellow tribal members more than just trite statements. There are virtual (online) tribes. And actual in person tribes. In person tribes carry more weight. Just a prescriptive recommendation to Glenn. Hand out with like minded, red pill, similar personality type men. I had a fling in pre-med school where I bided my time for a year before med school and after college. TL;DR I met with a wholesome,nice, cute platonic girl nurse known from college and her cute friend nurse and her cute boyfriend. We… Read more »
” In person tribes carry more weight. ”
I point I make repeatedly at RoK. Again, we concur.
@Pam This will be a difficult and prodigious amount to absorb, and, surprisingly, is not gender-specific in its wisdom and application. If you are for real, you will read and learn for the betterment of your life and for that of any man who is worth having. No one else in the mainstream media or the feelgoodosphere is going to tell you the truth. If you come to understand the truths that are spoken aloud and routinely tested here, you will greatly increase your chances of true fulfillment as a woman. Red Pill women are a coveted prize and as… Read more »
@Glenn – I get where you’re coming from, as I’m not far behind you in age (48). Wish I had an easy answer for you, but I don’t. I do know I need to find a group of guys to hang with and do stuff with. Which is hard to do here in the ‘burbs. The married guys here pretty much turned over their social calendars to their wives when they got married. And I just don’t run across that many single guys since most of the parents among my kids’ friends, teammates, etc. are married. About the only other… Read more »
@sifrellc – Great advice, thank you. I am more connected to the men in my life than ever, I have one friend that i speak to almost every day. However I only see one or two of them a month. There is a difference between that and the group of guys you describe. I get it and it’s missing from my life. There is something intensely powerful about a group of men who are likeminded and supportive of each other involved in a shared doing of some sort. I bet most women would be jealous of that kind of friendship… Read more »
Pam sez: “I can’t imagine getting into a relationship (let alone marrying a guy?!) if you have to act as though you enjoy him physically? Seriously?”
This is not mismatched libidos she’s talking about. This is Alpha Fucks. Wait for the epiphany and she’ll settle for Mr. Goodenough.
FI Alert: Check out a movie on Netflix, Ask Me Anything – it’s FI-porn cheering on 18 yr old girls jumping on the cock carousel. In it, the main character, a nubile, waif-like blonde 18 yr old cutie preens and sluts herself about with reckless abandon. It’s not an unfamiliar motif but in this movie it’s taken to a lascivious, in your face, all-male denigrating place that i think is something new and vile. Any women following along at home here, here is some homework for you. Watch that movie and tell me, what is it demonstrating? I could only… Read more »
@pam “I spent a lot of time travelling. Whether it was to his parents’ place when he was home or the hour train ride to his college. I also supported him when I had the opportunity, referring him to my father’s company during one of his co-op placements. And When he was struggling to get off of weed I massaged him down from his stress block. In terms of sordid details, I hate to put it out there, but… I put on a number of “shows”, inciting (usually successful) attempts at pretty much every imaginable position.” “We were each other’s… Read more »
Glenn, I make no claims other than serendipity for finding some like minded masculine males who “get” what a red pill existence means to them and me. Definitely sounds like you are having trouble getting through the Kubler Ross stages of loss/grief. http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/ I learned in retrospect that this group of guys, a gang of like-minded individuals had similar phenotypes to me. The Meyer’s Briggs Personality Type Indicator helped me define my strengths and weaknesses as a personality and to realize why my thoughts and discussions resonated so well with two guys from my deer hunting habitat and two guys… Read more »
Glenn – “KFG – although I’m at the point with all this that I just don’t bother talking to women . . .” Hey, remember me? I’m the guy who had your back when Kate was trying to mother hen you. If my comment doesn’t resonate with you, go with something else. It’s not the skin on my nose that’s at risk. As I said, I cannot choose for you and won’t lie to you to feign a definitive answer. And I concur with the advice to read Jack Donovan and find a group of like minded brothers. That is,… Read more »
@LiveFearless *Was there a mismatched libido phenomenon with her prior to your marriage?* It’s hard to say. By the time I met my wife at age around 28, I had only had 2 girlfriends by that point, and had has sex with exactly 4 total. This was mostly when I was younger, 19 to early 20’s. I went years without having sex. It wasn’t that I was a troll, either. Could have been in better shape, definitely needed to stop dressing like a dweeb, but I’m wasn’t ugly (although may have thought it). I was just utterly fucking clueless. I… Read more »
@Seraph
When I was growing up I felt the same way. Things where not as they seemed. The thing I find hilarious is the amount of denial I was putting myself in.
@Glenn- I completely understand your existential ennui. I have experienced it before. In my early 20s when my parents died and when I turned 30 that both my best friends died. It lasted a long time and again once I found the RP. I think, or it seems to me, that that angst is literally a reaction to loss. It is a form of grief, but grief turned outwards towards the world, as opposed to the personal grief that we feel as emotion and loss. When we lose something of great importance, of course we begin to wonder what is… Read more »
@KFG – Ooops. Okay, still sounds like crap to me. I thought you were a woman, yeah, I remember now, my mistake.
I want to thank you all again. I am reading and reading. It is changing my perspective.
I am planning to tell her “See you” , do not let the door hit your behind ” tomorrow. I am grateful to you all.
Why so soon?
What about the script to go silent for two weeks, instilling nuclear dread, have make-up sex and then dump her.
I have been treated like a “chump” for too long now. She can do this to someone else.
I deserve better.
An a lighter note
“Every man’s life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one man from another.”
― Ernest Hemingway
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/dv/dvs022.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/dv/dvs024.htm
@ midwestboi…..show this page to your friends…friends who are ready for this. Help to spread the wisdom in here. It’s time to spread this all over the fucking world
Enjoy and welcome.
I read some of your comments. Some of Rollo’s essays, and this is my conclusion:
I would rather be alone at the South Pole fighting bears than spend another second with a manipulative, lying, deceiving woman.
I am nobody’s piece of crap. Thank you all and this site is awesome.
So I gave a recent print copy of TRM to the 17-year-old sailing buddy. He comes from divorced parents, spends most time with mom, you know the story. He comes up to me a few days after giving it to him and says, “Hey, my mom saw that book you gave me.” I winced out, “oh no.. ” He then says, “She shook her head and said, ‘that doesn’t exist.'” At first I kind of chuckled with him. Hours later I found myself disgusted, a mother telling her SON, “rational males don’t exist.” Can you imagine the screeching from a… Read more »
@Jeremy Think of the power you’ve just given to that young man.
I’ve used the analogy before…
Only a few pages of either “The Rational Male” (volume) is equivalent to giving human growth hormone to the height-challenged boy.
His life at 6’3″ will be much enhanced over the 5’8″ he would have been.
World leaders are built with these two books. I’m looking forward to Volume Three.
@Jeremy Yeah. I heard shit like that from my mom constantly. She railed hard on men. Complained about men. Took out all her frustrations about men on me. A couple decades on she can’t figure out why saying “I’m sorry about hitting you” once when I was 22 didn’t make me want to use up all my vacation time at every job visiting her. Bringing up all the constant misandry and grinding down of my self-esteem only resulted in being told to get over it. Apologies don’t seem very genuine when they’re selective, do they? Mothers like that destroy developing… Read more »
@jeremy @sun wukong
Both your comments make me think of this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-C6ai4muhYn7/the_aviator_2004_mother_gives_a_bath/
It’s weird my mother still can emotionally destroy me it with a red pill mindset I can move past that.
MWB will be a hell of a lot less bitter now, having read all this material before becoming some sluts beta-bucks hubby than he would after being run through the divorce ringer.
@rugby For the past few years, even before TRP, I had been slowly asserting my frame over interactions between myself and my mother. Interactions between us occur entirely in my frame now. Her past behaviors were deplorable and now she duplicitously pretends the past didn’t happen, but I’ve learned to recognize it as female solipsism and protection of her self image. She failed at a lot of life, but she wants to believe she at least did awesome raising kids. Objectively, she sucked at it; I was abused physically and psychologically, my sister was abused psychologically. I wound up incel,… Read more »
@Sun wukong I can relate my mother would encourage my father to immaculate me whenever i “misbehaved” it wasn’t helpful because my farther would beat me up to meet my mothers needs. I tried to avoid my family because the red pill is frame. No one is heathly in a blue pill frame if their is one? Both my parents held strong beliefs about God that was mostly coming from the femanine. My sisters would do open hypegamy while stealing from my mother and making her look crazy. It’s weird because the red pill explains their behavior but the blue… Read more »
Thank you to those have been supportive. This blog is quite an enlightening read. @redlight As I said earlier – I was not looking to marry the guy and have kids, I was 19 and going to college and not even certain that I wanted kids, just happy with him when we were together. And of course children are a whole other ballgame in terms of responsibilities. It is because of that fact that I have not had any interest in having children with any of the short relationships that I have been in – I always felt that if… Read more »
@pam if you’re more interested in sex than your guy, than my answer was a serious and completely honest one. As long as you are honest with yourself than you’re good.
And the whole “real man” thing….cmon, this is a blog…you don’t know me and I don’t know you. I give honest advice to help people that is all. Take it or leave it.
Pam the yesterday was: “The man I was certain that I would marry broke things off to be “just friends” when I went away for college. I figured that it was just time that he needed to himself and so I waited and indeed,” Pam the today: “As I said earlier – I was not looking to marry the guy and have kids, I was 19 and going to college and not even certain that I wanted kids, just happy with him when we were together. ” “I was a dancer at the time ” Mr T is too drunk… Read more »
@Pam- I’ve avoided commenting because, well, who cares. I’d rather give my attention to the men here on this blog who are ignored and derided by society. At least you’ll get a ton of sympathy and empathy for your “pain”, from everyone whereas the men here would be roundly blamed, shamed and insulted for even asking the question. But it’s late and I’m tired of seeing your posts, (and a bit buzzed) so let me offer as much of an answer as possible over the ‘net. Has it occurred to you that you didn’t even love him to begin with… Read more »
Dumping the other person is the ultimate DHV.
Everyone instinctively grasps this. Nobody’s ego likes the blow it deals.
@Pam I find it depressing that anytime a woman comments here, people only respond to her like they’re observing a chimpanzee in a cage…although that’s not a good analogy because it suggests scientific aloofness…scrutinizing her for signs of evil rather than responding like a human being, looking for signs of confirmation of their pet theories of why all women are out to get them, rather than answering the question. It’s sad, and I think conveys a profound neediness in the people who do it. In inability to relate to people who are different from you, because you can’t see past… Read more »
@Pam I have not read through everything, trying to take it all in as I am, and struggling to get to a proper understanding while struggling with the visceral reaction that comes from reading these posts while feeling lumped into the feminati that insist on man bashing they right off as activism or (worse) science…and I am wondering…does anyone know where to find a Red Pill woman for guidance? Pam, I hope you at least get to my comment before leaving the site altogether. I wouldn’t blame you for not coming back here, which is depressing; but still there is… Read more »
@Lucien On both your post well said and I agree as well on observation. It would be more beneficial to meet in person and discuss this to avoid a screen as a buffer. Which turns the intention on itself. It may sound good but other people can be whoever they want to be online. It’s in part why honor is essential least in person. What i find sad is that the anger and rage from anyone hear is a buffer. I may well be making a generalized statement but if you can speak to someone that way in person you… Read more »
@Glenn “But now? Is the purpose of life just to pursue pleasure? All this feels so empty. It’s not just me, right? And please, don’t proselytize to me, I’ve been quite religious at points in my life and quite consciously became an atheist – consider me the pickle that won’t become a cucumber again. I’m interested in how you guys deal with the existential angst of shedding a traditionalist worldview?” Reading what Lucien wrote reminds me of something that grounded me back in 1984 in a humanities seminar (an English class substitute). We read six books each semester and were… Read more »
@ midwestboi (fuck did I really type that?)
Can’t be mad at her, she is fulfilling her programming devoid of the capacity to even understand much less appreciate the abstract. (like our new little Pam I see).
Do you get mad at your dog or your cordless drill? Women are mindless creatures that require husbandry. You can take the job or not, up to you.
I am going through this right now. Had been separated a year after 22 years of marriage. The crazy making was too much and short story I left. Took the red pill and changed my view on women forever. She finally got into therapy for ptsd from her childhood, which initially bore fruit. I had a few girlfriends and had fun and decompressed. That is a whole story in and of itself. The wife finally got with one guy from work who was a mess of a man bigger than she *(law of attraction) and the relationship with new guy… Read more »