Wives & Lovers

Wives

(h/t Zelscorpion for the screen cap)

In Women Behaving Badly I made mention of Dalrock’s standing assertions that the context of romantic love has superseded the condition of a committed monogamy – traditionally marriage – as an idealized goal-state. Essentially this represents a reversal of a previous intersexual dynamic that served as a check and balance of women’s innate Hypergamy:

What nearly all modern Christians have done is place romantic love above marriage.  Instead of seeing marriage as the moral context to pursue romantic love and sex, romantic love is now seen as the moral place to experience sex and marriage.  This inversion is subtle enough that no one seems to have noticed, but if you look for it you will see it everywhere.

Lifetime marriage, with separate defined roles for husband and wife and true commitment is what makes sex and romantic love moral in the biblical view.  In our new view, romantic love makes sex moral, and the purpose of marriage is to publicly declare that you are experiencing the highest form of romantic love.  Thus people now commonly refer to a wedding as “making our love official”.

The gradations we now apply to romantic love are symptomatic of the problem.  We take great care to distinguish between “pure love” or “true love” and mere “infatuation” or “puppy love”.

[…] Because it is love and not marriage which now confers morality upon sex, sex outside of marriage is now considered moral so long as you are in love.  Thus we have the modern harlot’s defense/anthem “but we were in love!”

I think what Dal was getting at with this (and I hope he’ll comment) has a much broader reach than just in Christian (“Churchian”) culture. I think this raising of romantic love to the highest order is more punctuated in a religious context because, doctrinally, it should be the reverse. In an objective secular context this reversal is all but taken for granted.

In an age of feminine social primacy women’s feelings of romance are at a premium. We matter of factly presume that it’s a man’s responsibility to not only invest himself in, and provide resources for, his wife and children’s wellbeing, but it’s also (almost exclusively) his burden of performance to stimulate and maintain his wife’s romantic interests.

I’ve argued the position that women (of today) don’t find the ‘good guy‘ – a man attempting to embody the best aspects of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks – a believable role. My assertion is that women expect and desire those aspects in different men at different times as needed, however, the social narrative still places that “best of both aspects” burden on a man who does commit to a woman in the long term.

With the exception of only the most adept, affluent and exceptional of men, this expectation is a sisyphean recipe for failure. No matter which aspect he excels in the other aspect potentially becomes his personal flaw. Although his personal strengths may compensate, feminine-primary social expectations place him in a no-win position.

Wives Hate Sex

Badpainter and Sun Wukong had an interesting exchange in this week’s comment thread:

Badpainter:

Newgal states clearly women must be sluts for men to get laid. This also means women must be sluts for women to get laid. Why must that be true? Because Newgal alludes to a dirty little truth so ingrained in the social consciousness it’s a cliché: wives hate sex. Therefore women, sluts and otherwise, get married so they can stop having sex except as necessary to get pregnant.

Think about it.

The girlfriend provides sex good enough to motivate a desire in the man to commit. After the wedding is a period of at least adequate sex followed by a decline to little or nothing if she can get away with this. When the wife becomes suitably frustrated/disenchanted with the marriage she changes title to divorcée and is again free to become a sexual creature.

The source of the problem is that women have very little sense of self that is internally derived therefore they play roles defined externally. These roles are proxies for their identities which barely exist. In 2015 wives are not defined as sexually giving, or sexual at all except for the honeymoon period. If the sexual wife exists in this culture it as the adulteress giving herself to men other than her husband.

Sun Wukong

Oh absolutely. The wife that hates sex is such a “thing” now I really think it’s what makes even Blue Pill guys at least pause on their way to the altar. “Do I really want to put a libido draining fat license on her finger?” I think that premise is largely built out of feminine cynicism about settling for [Beta Bucks]. They all know the script so well that they assume they’re going to marry a guy they don’t want to fuck. Imagine that: assuming you’re going to hate sex for the rest of your life.

What a horrendously awful view of a man you haven’t even met yet. And he’s not even met you but assumes he’ll be happily making love to you for the rest of his life and you’ll do the same. What a disconnect. Oh well, at least the kids will be happy right? Anybody?

What Badpainter and Sun have illustrated here is the direct result of placing a romantic condition for love as the prime requisite for a committed relationship. It’s important to grasp that any relationship founded on genuine desire will necessitate genuine passion and not a small amount of feral lust, however, it is exactly this pre-commitment (Alpha Fucks) sexual chemistry that will later become the exclusive responsibility of a man in that commitment.

The character that is a wife is now socially and popularly expected to move into a sexless, passionless and unexciting condition by being married today. All Epiphany Phase rationalizations aside, marriage is viewed as the end of the party. Being a wife is boring by comparison.

I explored this in detail in Beta Fucks and As Good As It Gets, but what I find ironic in light of Dalrock’s assertions about romance-primary intergender dynamics is that the very pretense of that romantic “true love” context that supposedly legitimizes sex is killed within the confines of marriage. In fact, women expect and anticipate that the sexual desire they find so important in that romantic context will necessarily die once they become a ‘wife’.

The pretext of being a ‘wife’ is a socially excusable expectation of progressively losing sexual affinity for the man she’s agrees to marry, so what woman wants to be a wife? Women become wives due to the necessities an ever-decreasing capacity to maintain being a lover requires of them.

I expect that most women will disagree with me on a personal level; it’s not in women’s best interest to acknowledge that wives hate sex – perpetuating the belief that sex gets better after marriage is a necessity men need to internalize in order to commit. Whether or not this is true for a woman on a personal basis isn’t my point. The point is that the societal message is one that marriage will necessarily kill a couples’ passionate sexual connection in comparison to their single, romance-based sexual connection.

Why ruin a perfectly good relationship with marriage?

The Myth of Mismatched Libidos

Once married, there are myriad social conventions already emplaced for a wife to rely upon as she moves from exciting singleness into mundane, but necessary, long-term commitment. Most of these she’s already been conditioned to expect she can rely on. ‘Mismatched Libidos’ is a common refrain for women (and marriage counselors) who come to a point where they can no longer palate the “duty sex” they felt responsible for in the beginnings of their marriage.

Her husband isn’t expected to provide the ‘tingles, but he’s still responsible for the failure to create them. As I said, only the most exceptional of men can effortlessly inspire the admiration necessary to maintain a woman’s Hypergamous interest. If you have a read of the screen cap Zel provided us with for this post you’ll get an idea of how those pre-made social conventions work in tandem with men’s default responsibility of satisfying a woman’s endless discontent.

The deference is always to the feminine, thus any problem (particularly sexual ones) he has with her become his personal issues and flaws. Any deviation, any dissatisfaction, with the ready-made social conventions set in place to excuse the female sexual strategy are solely his responsibility and his character flaws.

The ship is going down, and I’ve only got three life jackets. Who am I going to give them to? John, you learned to swim a long time ago, right?

In last week’s post comments I quoted the following confessional from Love Shack:

My wife called me today and was all excited about some beachfront apartment she saw. She wants us to buy it for vacations and such.

Now here I am .. I just turned 50. My youngest is going to college this year and I guess I just realized that I’m no longer bound to her.

The last 20 years has been a long series of quickies and 3 minutes handjobs every 3-4 weeks. In between, I spent my prime sexual years mostly masturbating to get off. Now that I’m 50, my drive is still good, but it’s not what it was.

I had tried everything I could think of over those 20 years to get things on track. I was exemplary with chores around the house, I was attentive to her emotional needs as far as I could anticipate them, and even if I do say so myself – I’ve kept myself in outstanding shape (although that was more for me).

On the other hand, I look back and I can hardly remember a time that she spontaneously gave me a neck rub, or cooked something just for me as opposed to all of us, and certainly not even attempting to do something special for me sexually (yeah, I have a minor kink or two).

But when she asked me to buy a beachfront place today – my immediate reaction was annoyance. I realized then that I feel resentful. I have decided to leave her. There is absolutely nothing she can do now to change anything because the past cannot be changed.

This man’s situation represents the ending phase of a chronic lack of admiration on his wife’s part. It would be easy to point out his role is one of being the dutiful unconsidered provider in his wife’s Frame, however, consideration is never a motivator of genuine desire for a woman. Only admiration and an ambient imagination of losing the focus of it inspires genuine desire.

Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo had a post recently outlining the expectations of women interested in “seducing” a man. On GWADT’s blog what’s implied is that this man is in fact her husband to begin with. What makes her points so difficult for married women to digest is that they should ever need to make an effort to do so. The reason this is so alien a thought to married women is because the men they wanted to seduce were the men they knew before they became ‘wives’. Wives have no use for seduction, and particularly so with the Beta men they settled for around their Epiphany Phase. Seduction, compassion, appreciation (such as can be expected of a woman) only become a necessity when women are subjected to a real preoccupation with losing a valuable man – a man they admire.

Even in Frank Sinatra’s time wives had to be told to be lovers too.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Well said Rollo

oblivion
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oblivion
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My buddy got married and his wife pulled the no sex thing. he told her if she didnt give up, he would get it elsewhere. she didnt realize how alpha he was. they have been divorced for 7 years and he’s banged another 100 broads. If you want sex dont get married, marriage is only for raising children. if your wife wont fuck you, then tell her you ll get some on the side. (women will get away with ONLY WHAT YOU ALLOW. there is no substitute for laying down the law with your women.

Just Saying
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Wives have no use for seduction Not when it comes to their husbands, but when you’re the one on the side that they are out to get, they certainly manage quite nicely. Which is one of the reasons that I will NEVER marry. No thank you. I prefer being the prize that is won for a night, and that they have to re-win is they expect another bedding… That is why marriages are always doomed – the woman no longer has to compete for the man, and if she isn’t competing for you, she will be competing for another man.… Read more »

daysofgamecom
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>> men’s default responsibility of satisfying a woman’s endless discontent This isn’t really about marriage, it’s about the decline of passion that comes with increased familiarity and “identification” with a partner. No distance, no uncertainty, no passion. The endless discontent is the problem/reality. A lover of mine (who’s on the rampage for “more” right now) said, “A woman, always, wants, more.” I think that’s the most important lesson I’ve learned in the last year… you can’t quench that thirst, so don’t try. Do what you feel like, then prepare to walk away (test her) and find something new. Marriage is… Read more »

lucky white male
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we are going far down into the rabbit hole with this post what does a married man do in the face of this a married man is trapped in a game, in a system, in a frame, where he cannot possibly win. and it all happens the day you stand at the altar in front of 100 people, many of whom are married themselves, and don’t tell the guy that ‘the joke is on you’ any guy with half a brain and a halfway decent SMV will do what the 50 yr old guy depicted above does once the kids… Read more »

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[…] phrases, taken out of context from an outstanding essay at The Rational Male, mean that the only thing left to do today is to order ONE […]

theasdgamer
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@ lucky

+1

theasdgamer
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If you leave your wedding ring on and go out, you’ll be a target of married women. They will figure that you don’t want to blow up your marriage and they don’t want to either. But they want sex with someone other than their husbands.

Saor
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Saor
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Not married man here. One thing I have learned from Dalrock or some other Christian blog and have observed from afar, is that marriage was not for romantic feelings, or individual passions, much less sexual attraction and whatnot.
You and your spouse married to expand your communities, families, culture, to raise children, marriage is a duty.
Hence the enormous social and cultural constraints against divorce, individually, purely from rational self-interest, marriage is a bad proposition.
Leo Tolstoi talks about it in “The Kreutzer Sonata” and in “War and Peace”.

Sun Wukong
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@theasdgamer

I’ve always been tempted to try and get an old wedding ring from a pawn shop just to see if the game is that different.

daysofgamecom
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>> But they want sex with someone other than their husbands. @ theasdgamer That’s exactly right… it’s not that wives hate sex, they just give up in the face of the providing husband, in the face of too much shared tameness to take him seriously sexually anymore. He is as bored w/ sex with her as she is, but something in the psychology of men vs women in this context *does* mean that he’ll still try in ways that she won’t… and it’s not because he’s excited about it. >> The deference is always to the feminine, thus any problem… Read more »

Atlanta Man
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You do not need to get married at all. You do not need to get married to have children, just have all your kids with one woman and shield your assets so she cannot use the courts to abuse you. Marriage was invented long ago in a different time with different cultural expectations. Marriage today for the modern man is as useful as a horse and carriage for transportation, quaint but not practical. You will not fuck your wife anymore, you will not fuck your wife anymore, YOU WILL NOT FUCK YOUR WIFE ANYMORE! You will spend your days looking… Read more »

Atlanta Man
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I know I talk a lot of shit, I know that people find me abrasive, but the truth is you are being lied to. The next time you can get a married man alone (not a newlywed) and ask him how his sex life is- he is going to lie to you so he can feel better about his fucked up lot in life. The internet is finally pulling back the curtain on how much married life sucks, and thank god for that!

Juicycleric
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Hi Rollo,

Can you create a page on your website that lists every single abbreviation you use, it would be really, really helpful.

Juicycleric
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*Acronyms

K
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K
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this is why, since the beginning of time…

duty to the wife. love to the mistress.

Bluepillprofessor
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Another one out of the park.

“Only admiration and an ambient imagination of losing the focus of it inspires genuine desire.”

TLDR: Be a man to be respected and when in doubt, Dread Game.

Bluepillprofessor
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Atlanta Man, your question:

“why should I continue to suffer married celibacy?”

Can be asked and answered well before you ‘cheat’ or file for divorce or it can be answered after.

Click on my name and head on over to Married Red Pill. We can possibly help if you are willing to check your attitude at the door. You are wrong that Dread does not usually stoke sexual desire in women or that there are not other steps to take but painfully correct on the status of most marriages in the West today.

Forge the Sky
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Hmm. This post just makes me think. It’s a pretty simple dynamic, really. Men—>Women—>Children. Just like in Rollo’s post ‘Hierarchies of Love.’ Put a man in charge of a relationship and he’ll make sure his needs are taken care of as well as his women and his children. Put women in charge, as in the culturally normative contemporary marriage, and the woman has no particular impulse to make sure her man’s needs are taken care of. It just seems annoying and burdensome if he brings them up. She takes care of her own and her children’s needs. Only. Woman simply… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“The brighter side of this, if you can capitalize on it. There is a part of a woman’s psyche that is motivated and primed to take care of a man’s needs – if he is perceived as being a man (read: alpha) and not an androgene (read: beta). “ This looks contradictory with what I wrote just before it, since I forgot to clarify one thing. Women, I feel, don’t have any impulse to watch out for their men’s needs – alpha or beta. They just don’t see it as being something to contemplate or worry about. They do, however,… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Rollo,

Thanks for the link! That’s almost kinda scary, really. It’s like men just fall outside the purview of our species’ compassionate impulses.

gunner451
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Well Love Shack’s tale is almost the same as mine. Funny thing is she telegraphed it to me before we were even married! Still remember her comment was that she had not expected me to be as good in bed as I was and this was after we were engaged. At the time I thought why on earth would a woman pursue (and that is what she did, she was all hot to get married as she was pushing 30 when she met me) some one she expected to be a dud in bed for the rest of her life?… Read more »

Will
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Will
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If you are high value in a girls mind, then she would be thrilled to marry you. Then, if you love her, and you are high value to her and she’s really hot, I don’t see what the problem is………………..everyone wins.

Badpainter
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@ Will

Agree. But only with actual words you used. I note you didn’t say to marry.

Put a ring on it and your burden of performance goes up, Up, UP! On the downside you get a wife. Better to have a girlfriend, or three angling for the position.

Mr T.
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Mr T.
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Which one of the followings causes a wife/girlfriend to stop fucking you: 1,she wasn’t aroused by you from the beginning. 2,you were an alpha who became a beta. 3,she settled for you. 4,she knows you are/were weak and you caved a lot. 5,she knows you were/are desperate. 6,you did a lot of immature things her pu**y is as dry as a desert. 7, she (as all women) is insecure about her body and she still doesn’t understands why men find women’s body irresistible. For women, sex is a tool. 8,she is mad at you and she is using sex as… Read more »

Striver
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The bit about the wife actually wanting two different men is completely true to my experience. My soon to be ex is leaving me for someone she knew before she met me. Said before we married it was a choice between me him and she chose me for the marriage. I was the strong, solid guy who fathered her children; now it’s time for her fun. I had no chance in an equalitarian marriage. With her setting that frame in her head (I knew nothing of this before she made her move, she put on a good act until the… Read more »

Jeremy
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I am not married. However, I do imagine in a world where men had much more control over marriage, and more power (than women) in the event of any separation, that the naturally existing “competition anxiety” went a long way to keep women willing to be lovers in marriage. Old societal structures meant that female divorcees and widows were much more on their own, particularly if her parents were past the age of supporting her. It seems, that for wives to be lovers, they must experience a medicinal measure of a fear of loss. Women only put out when they… Read more »

BigAl
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BigAl
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“Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself.” ~ Rumi

rugby11ljh
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On Marriage Kahlil Gibran You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore. You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days. Ay, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God. But let there be spaces in your togetherness, And let the winds of the heavens dance between you. Love one another, but make not a bond of love: Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls. Fill each other’s cup but drink not from one cup. Give one another of your bread but eat not from… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Jeremy,

Women will feel anxiety/dissatisfaction about something. Best it be a vague anxiety about losing you; otherwise it will be a vague anxiety that she could do better elsewhere. Or, if fortune smiles, just something kind of annoying like ‘do I have the right job’ or ‘what does my family think of me’ or ‘I don’t feel sexy anymore’ or some such.

It’s like what Rollo talked about in his post on indignation. She’s going to be indignant about something; might as well be you.

StringsofCoins
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When I first got married, about a year into it, when my wife first got pregnant this girl I worked with straight up offered to blow me during lunch. Had I known what I know now at that very second I would have said yes.

Back then all that did was create cognitive dissonance in my head while I tried to figure out why a woman who knows I have a wife at home is propositioning me. Blue pill life leads to massive amounts of cognitive dissonance. It can’t be good for mental health.

Mr T.
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Mr T.
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What about seeing a sex therapist ?
Waaaahahaha
Waaaahahaha.

Derpifer
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Derpifer
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To be fair, I have met plenty of once a day ladies married to twice a month men

Sun Wukong
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@Derpifer

That would be the exception, and I’m willing to bet most of them are women that married up 1-2 points, then widened the gap by gaining weight. That or the guys have something else going on (manic depression, low T due to medical condition, extreme stress) that inhibits libido. It is not the stereotype for a reason.

Derpifer
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Oh yeah for sure. My personality usually filters out stereotypes. Pre redpill I had long dry spells between dating smart quirky (often foreign) sevens and eights who just needed a little game to not be driven to rebounds with actual abusive dudes. Live and learn.

Anyway these low libido dudes seem often mid thirties, working long and eating lots of junk food….low T is a great guess. Seen lots of it.

orsogrigio
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orsogrigio
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More GOLD from rollo and the posters on here.
This is the blog that just keeps on giving, head and shoulders above any other red pill blog I have seen, and I’ve seen many.
The information on this site is essential reading for men and should be part of the school curriculum ( never going to happen in the FI controlled school system).
Fellow Red pill Gladiators I salute you.

hamster_wrestler
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“I expect that most women will disagree with me on a personal level; it’s not in women’s best interest to acknowledge that wives hate sex – perpetuating the belief that sex gets better after marriage is a necessity men need to internalize in order to commit.”

That’s a provocative concept; wives step out of the house (GNO?) and they’re possibly no longer wives but back to being women. Makes sense, as in just a later version of Rollo’s “foam cannon” hook-up aphorism.

Ra Sputin
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“Women become wives due to the necessities an ever-decreasing capacity to maintain being a lover requires of them.” – and due to a faster decline in SMV ??

Tam the Bam
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Gunner: “.. marry a virgin so that at least she won’t have experienced anything better than you and she won’t know what’s she’s missing on the carousel.” Unpossible. Every single one of them is plugged into the social media Matrix from before puberty nowadays. Like a facehugger Alien. You can’t even get them to look away from their iThings to dodge the traffic. And the message, full-bore and 24/7, is YOLO,YuGoGuuurrrl, drop the panties for nice Mr Saville darling, and all her “friends” agree, enthusiastically. OK so they don’t have those things in the 3rd world. My kid bro thought… Read more »

Tam the Bam
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Strings : “why a woman who knows I have a wife at home is propositioning me” That “withdrawn from the shelves” thing seems to trigger certain women. It’s happened a few times, the clearest being a party with people from work, hostess jumped me and dryhumpe/crotchgrabbed as I thanked her kindly for her generous offer and disentangled myself as gently as possible. She knew I had a (near-term pregnant with first child) woman at home and it was work in the morning, but .. she’d split with her longterm SO recently, they’d had a house (his house) together for years… Read more »

Tam the Bam
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dammit. fag tail, close after first “me”

Stingray
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It seems, that for wives to be lovers, they must experience a medicinal measure of a fear of loss.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by medicinal measure, but I do think some measure of fear is inherent in a woman’s arousal. It’s doesn’t necessarily have to be a fear of him leaving physically, but checking out emotionally as well. Any fear, as long as it’s not too little or too much, keeps us on our toes and, surprisingly, happy.

Lucien
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@Stingray

I think that’s why chicks like horror movies

theasdgamer
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@ Rollo

Re: Seductive women

Women who are 5’s in beauty tend to be aggressive and think that that’s seductive. Not. Just creepy. They don’t turn me on with their looks. Women used to use double-entendres and I haven’t seen that in a while.

theasdgamer
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@ Stingray

Medicinal measure = micro

theasdgamer
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Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and teh Patriarchy was supreme, men still needed to be told to flirt with their wives. Be playful and engaging…needed for mating in all circumstances…single…and married.

Fanny Farthing
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Marriage is, and should be seen by women, as including a license for the man in the marriage, to enjoy her pussy as much as HE wants or needs. Period.

Glenn
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Why is that personal growth is always preceded by pain? This is exactly what happened to me with my ex wife. But there is a truth underneath it all that I have been unwilling to admit. Somehow, in my blue pilled mind, I thought marriage was an escape from the burden of performance. I knew my ex was losing interest in me sexually, and no, I didn’t go to the gym and buff up. I didn’t even try to lose the bit of weight I had begun to put on. I didn’t try to be sexy for her. I felt… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Rollo

Re: seductive women (2)

I have seen a couple of women who are seductive and clever about it. One was very smooth. Both are older.

Liz
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That was a great one, Confuzzled wife! April fool’s back at yah!

Here’s mine: I’m a great wife in every single way, take care of the kids, clean the house, yadda yadda. The only think I want is for my husband to have a sex change because what I really want is a girlfriend. We could share so many things…stories, gossip, play cards, swap pearl necklaces (I mean REAL ones, not…that…tee her). I really don’t see his objections…

Femertilizer
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What I’ll be telling my boys in a couple of years:

If you want sex, get a hooker.

If you want affection and loyalty, get a dog.

rugby11ljh
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@glenn Thanks so much for the help from this Went to visit a childhood buddy of mine and I noticed how frame was essential. my Dad didn’t teach me shit about how to be a good father, husband and man. He resorted to bullying and force and coercion and demanded respect – he didn’t lead our family wisely. I guess this is what I’d want to say to any guy in a marriage, or contemplating marrying. You will need to maintain the frame of the relationship and be the leader of your family to even have a slim chance of… Read more »

Rob
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Rob
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Rollo – what is your sex life like?

447
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447
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Excellent dissection by Rollo – again.

Simple things stay simple: No marriage, ever.

As one commenter put it, the female has to “earn the right of spending the night” – because you could potentially leave.

Being a truly free man leads women to submissive behaviour, as it should be.

Read another good sentence on another site today: “Why slip that get-fat-and-take-half-my-shit licence on her finger?”

Even in a worst case secenario – child support is relativly limited (although still way too much) – sharing of everything you got via marriage is plain stupid.

rugby11ljh
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If you want sex, get a hooker.
(Learned)

If you want affection and loyalty, get a dog.
(Always knew)
But that’s all true still no excuse in learning game.

walawala
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My ex gf started distancing, one night i said: “Do i need to start fucking other women?” She found another guy and dumped me.

The problem was i was too overt. had I been covert and just started fucking other women she would have suddenly amped up the sex and felt more competitive because she would sense someone else wanted me or was fucking me… Lesson learned.

Sun Wukong
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@Glenn

I realize I was confused back then, and in my case, my Dad didn’t teach me shit about how to be a good father, husband and man. He resorted to bullying and force and coercion and demanded respect – he didn’t lead our family wisely.

So much this. The problem with BP dads (mine included) is that they don’t understand the difference between respect and fear. Respect goes both ways; fear only goes one.

When a kid grows up thinking respect is fear, they’re never going to get true respect as a Man themselves.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@walawala

Yep. Demonstrate, don’t explicate.

TuffLuv
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@daysofgame “Yes, women will test endlessly to watch you try to feed their “hungry ghosts.” But as guys, we’re too afraid of being alone, too afraid to do the work to be attractive, so we say yes (to her terms), she senses the “weakness,” and thing deteriorate from there.” This is being honest about the situation. I’d replace the word ‘afraid’, with ‘lazy’, but… You want preventive medicine.. this. You will perform. The fun part is, it get’s ever harder to do that with a two income household, kids, hormonal (possibly neurotic) wife, liberals, the FI, boredom, age, etc.. even… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@walawala This is central to game – and in particular to how good game requires a holistically masculine life and outlook. When I was first learning a bit of game my impulse was to be overt, as you were; I’d try a bit of dread/abundance mentality by trying to insert stories about other girls into my conversations with the gf and so on. It didn’t help at all, the whole thing rang false. A few happy accidents started to show me that the only way to do this properly is to live it. As an example, shortly after I broke… Read more »

Excalibur
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Excalibur
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Why nice guys DO come first: Scientists claim modest men make better lovers:

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3020459/Why-nice-guys-come-Scientists-claim-modest-men-make-better-lovers.html#ixzz3W4SQKmPe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Octavian
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Octavian
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There is a great difference psychologically between doing something for obligation,and doing it because you really want to. Its true of many things, and sex is no exception. I run twice a week and have fun doing it.When I was in the military and HAD to do it, running 2 miles sucked. Context matters, and with women its 80% of their motivation to do anything. Women in the Beta Bucks phase dont even consider sex with the man as part of the bargain-if he’s good at it, she’s still cutting him off because she’s not primally attracted to him in… Read more »

Arbiter
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Arbiter
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“I’ve always been tempted to try and get an old wedding ring from a pawn shop just to see if the game is that different.” Absolutely. I knew a guy some years ago who worked in sales&marketing at a computer company, so he was on the road *a* *lot*. Single guy, decent but not great success with women. Once (for reasons I forget), he picked up a random men’s wedding ring at a pawn shop, and when he was on the road, and going out to hit the bars/clubs, he would pull out the ring and put it on. He… Read more »

A Random Guy
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A Random Guy
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Sorry browser filled in the wrong handle when I posted the above sad

Timber St. James
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I suspect I must enjoy an odd existence, but for what it’s worth: Mrs. St. James and I had sex maybe 1-2 times a week early in our marriage. Without thinking about it, I explained one random evening that I was going to have some great sex, and I would really like it to be with her. Not that such a statement was a watershed moment, but in my memory Things Changed for some reason. Believe me, I get the point of this post and Rollo has been awesome sauce when it comes to improving my own marriage. (I wanted… Read more »

ace
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ace
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Just Saying

March 31st, 2015 at 8:02 pm

“That is why marriages are always doomed – the woman no longer has to compete for the man, and if she isn’t competing for you, she will be competing for another man.”

Not in a situation where divorce is easy and low risk for a man and/or polygamy (having several wives) is allowed i.e. Islamic/Sharia law.

Badpainter
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Badpainter
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Given comments I hear from men outside the ‘sphere I think men are due to get the own epiphany phase. That being being the realization the most parasitic, most malignant, and least rewarding women are those in the “epiphany phase.” Until the roles of husband and wife are redefined as something positive for both sexes to be and to be with the nuclear family will continue to die.

Zak Zanloft
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Thank you Rollo for another enlightening post. This being my first post here (or at any ‘manosphere’ blog) let me take a moment to sincerely thank you for taking the time to make these incredibly enlightening and well constructed posts. Your writing-skill and that of your commenter’s are top of class. At 43, married with 3 kids, I’m a little late to the ‘manosphere’ party but I’m a quick learner. I’m proof that it is never too late to learn and implement. When I discovered your blog, I must be honest, it was like being sucker punched in the face.… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Thanks for that post
Reminds me a post secret I read today
“It took my husband 2 years to convince me to join “lifestyle” …and 2 mouths for me to fall in love with his best friend.”

Jeremy
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@Rollo Tomassi

http://scan.oxfordjournals.org/content/10/3/311.abstract

The results showed that in women and men participants oxytocin enhanced compassion toward women, but did not affect compassion toward men

holy shit.

I’m feeling like saving a copy of that paper to my smartphone and keeping it with me. For two reasons… 1) To pull out for women when they attempt to cheerlead for female empathy. 2) To remind myself that science has proven women are cold.

Glenn
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Glenn
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But then again, apparently Bradley Cooper can’t keep a 23 yr old hottie in line, so what are my chances? From today’s NYPost:http://pagesix.com/2015/03/31/bradley-cooper-dumped-suki-because-she-wasnt-supportive-of-his-career/ Bradley Cooper split from 23-year-old British beauty Suki Waterhouse because “she wasn’t supportive of his acting career” and “spent Valentine’s Day away” from the “American Hustle,” star, says a source. We’re told Cooper felt Waterhouse was not supportive after his huge success in Broadway’s “Elephant Man,” which started in previews on Nov. 7 and ran till Feb. 21. Instead of spending Valentine’s Day in New York with Cooper, the model jetted with friends to a billionaire’s estate… Read more »

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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Bradley can do better, actually.

A Random Guy
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A Random Guy
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“and 2 mouths for me to fall in love with his best friend.”
^^^^^^^^

wonderful freudian slip smile

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Glenn

“But then again, apparently Bradley Cooper can’t keep a 23 yr old hottie in line, so what are my chances?”

If I’m being honest, probably better than his. Hollywood male stars are largely paper alphas drowning in social proof. It makes the getting easy but the keeping hard. I guarantee that given an opportunity with the same chick, any guy that has sufficiently internalized red pill game has a better chance of retention than your average Hollywood blue pull chump.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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“One could understand feminism generally as an attack on woman as she was under “patriarchy” (that concept is a social construction of feminism). The feminine mystique was her ideal; in regard to sex, it consisted of women’s modesty and in the double standard of sexual conduct that comes with it, which treated women’s misbehavior as more serious than men’s. Instead of trying to establish a single standard by bringing men up to the higher standard of women, as with earlier feminism, today’s feminism decided to demand that women be entitled to sink to the level of men. It bought into… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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An interesting piece, but the one thing that leaps out at me from is the language of the feminine imperative shaming the sexuality of men.

kaizersoze71
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have this bitch do without new shoes for a week…try that

Anonymous Reader
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The linked article is interesting for two reasons:

First, it is another example of a woman “marrying” her children and her job. It’s totally common now; when she’s at work, her job is #1; when she’s at home, the children are #1, and whatshisname? Oh, someday she’ll get back to him.

Second, I’m rather surprised to see the comments in the article, most of the female comments were negative. Thread winner was the woman who wanted to give “John” a BJ.

Mr T
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Mr T
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look what i found

The Diplomat
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The Diplomat
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Great find, T. Wow.

Of course, the song was written by males. Blue Pill fantasy or Red Pill anthem?

Will
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Will
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@rollo I have some thoughts regarding red pill and some of your writings. Your writings are geared towards low SMV guys and guys who don’t have much passion authenticity etc. IF YOU HAVE THIS (relatively high smv) then all of this really doesn’t mean much and is counterproductive. if a girl thinks of you as high SMV and she is hot everyone will win in the marriage. As long as you know red pill (aka don’t slide I to overly too beta, which most people know if theyy e been dumped for it before) then you shouldn’t be obsessed and… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Will

A high value Blue Pill can be taken to the cleaners. All of this advice applies whether you’re high or low value. The difference between high and low values is that a lot of the high value guys will have a lot of these behaviors naturally. The advice isn’t “bad” so much as it’s redundant.

Every guy of any value should at the very least have complete Red Pill awareness.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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On a side note: why the fuck does anybody worth over 8 figures ever get married? I really can’t figure this shit out.

Girlfriend: I’m going to leave you if you don’t marry me.

Me (as a billionaire): Hold on, let me pull out my phone and call your replacement. It’s so hard to choose. There’s like a few thousand of them in here seeing as I’m a fucking billionaire and all…

I mean seriously what the hell?

Jeremy
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@Sun Wukong

On a side note: why the fuck does anybody worth over 8 figures ever get married? I really can’t figure this shit out.

I can’t either. The comment of the day at lunch was, “Marriage is a roach motel, betas check in but they can’t check out.”

Will
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Will
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@rollo I follow your writing. All I’m saying is that if a girl sees you as high value and you are sexually attracted to her and red pill aware….and then get married…..(probably to raise kids with a girl who sees you as high value and whom you want to fuck)…everyone wins. If you start doing “dread game” she will possibly freak out and be weirded and confused as to why you are being retarded. If your marriage and relationship is already doing well (I.e. You are a high value authentic passionate guy) then you shouldn’t have to do this. Sure… Read more »

Will
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Will
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And @sun kuwong

That guy isn’t nexessarily “high value” in a girls mind. That example is irrelevant to my point. When you have that much money you have a target on your back. You get a prenup.

Leveraging your money to get girls is beta and not high value at all

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Hey will check this out you get both alpha and Beta in the same since but at different times. Smv plays a role because yes it’s James bond. However it’s the best expression on the burden of performance in any bond film ever made because the girl is aware of that burden on the beginning and close to the end. She now sees bond and knows he gets it. He holds her to remind her that it’s a part he must play she is forced to admit that he performed but perhaps not the way she expected he has money… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Here’s the clip @will
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ67V2SqD3A

Johnycomelately
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Johnycomelately
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I realise Rollo predicted open hyperagamy would be coming but holy crap I didn’t think it would be this open.

Realistic look at monogamy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/relationships/a-realistic-look-at-monogamy/article23671828/?click=sf_globefb

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Jeremy Hahah, nice. @Will That guy isn’t nexessarily “high value” in a girls mind. Don’t insult my intelligence by thinking I consider “high value” that narrowly. And yes, to many girls he would be. That example is irrelevant to my point. No, it’s not. To become a billionaire, you are almost 100% guaranteed to score high in Dark Triad traits. You are highly likely to exhibit leadership qualities. It’s impossible to get there without that. You clearly lack an understanding of what’s necessary to become a billionaire. Yet still he was Blue Pill enough to get divorce raped. It is… Read more »

Will
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Will
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@rugby you’re kind of getting at what I’m saying. Yeah. But James bond is an extreme example again. All I’m saying is if you have to beg beg beg a wife you are married to to have sex with you or she denies you it a lot then you married the wrong girl. Marriage is best used for building a family. So you have to realize that sex will require game, yes, but your wife probably won’t be some sex slave. If you want more sex with different girls and don’t want a family then don’t get married obviously. It… Read more »

Will
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Will
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@sun wukong

No they aren’t relevant. I am referring to red pill aware men.

I actually think that It is highlllllllllly likely, if you are blue pill, you will slide into overly beta behavior with a beautiful girl and get burned.

Had that “billionaire” been red pill aware none of that would’ve happened.

My point is regarding marriage and the fact that a good amount of the manospheres advice can be counterproductive with your main girl if you have already established red pill awareness and high SMV

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