Wives & Lovers

Wives

(h/t Zelscorpion for the screen cap)

In Women Behaving Badly I made mention of Dalrock’s standing assertions that the context of romantic love has superseded the condition of a committed monogamy – traditionally marriage – as an idealized goal-state. Essentially this represents a reversal of a previous intersexual dynamic that served as a check and balance of women’s innate Hypergamy:

What nearly all modern Christians have done is place romantic love above marriage.  Instead of seeing marriage as the moral context to pursue romantic love and sex, romantic love is now seen as the moral place to experience sex and marriage.  This inversion is subtle enough that no one seems to have noticed, but if you look for it you will see it everywhere.

Lifetime marriage, with separate defined roles for husband and wife and true commitment is what makes sex and romantic love moral in the biblical view.  In our new view, romantic love makes sex moral, and the purpose of marriage is to publicly declare that you are experiencing the highest form of romantic love.  Thus people now commonly refer to a wedding as “making our love official”.

The gradations we now apply to romantic love are symptomatic of the problem.  We take great care to distinguish between “pure love” or “true love” and mere “infatuation” or “puppy love”.

[…] Because it is love and not marriage which now confers morality upon sex, sex outside of marriage is now considered moral so long as you are in love.  Thus we have the modern harlot’s defense/anthem “but we were in love!”

I think what Dal was getting at with this (and I hope he’ll comment) has a much broader reach than just in Christian (“Churchian”) culture. I think this raising of romantic love to the highest order is more punctuated in a religious context because, doctrinally, it should be the reverse. In an objective secular context this reversal is all but taken for granted.

In an age of feminine social primacy women’s feelings of romance are at a premium. We matter of factly presume that it’s a man’s responsibility to not only invest himself in, and provide resources for, his wife and children’s wellbeing, but it’s also (almost exclusively) his burden of performance to stimulate and maintain his wife’s romantic interests.

I’ve argued the position that women (of today) don’t find the ‘good guy‘ – a man attempting to embody the best aspects of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks – a believable role. My assertion is that women expect and desire those aspects in different men at different times as needed, however, the social narrative still places that “best of both aspects” burden on a man who does commit to a woman in the long term.

With the exception of only the most adept, affluent and exceptional of men, this expectation is a sisyphean recipe for failure. No matter which aspect he excels in the other aspect potentially becomes his personal flaw. Although his personal strengths may compensate, feminine-primary social expectations place him in a no-win position.

Wives Hate Sex

Badpainter and Sun Wukong had an interesting exchange in this week’s comment thread:

Badpainter:

Newgal states clearly women must be sluts for men to get laid. This also means women must be sluts for women to get laid. Why must that be true? Because Newgal alludes to a dirty little truth so ingrained in the social consciousness it’s a cliché: wives hate sex. Therefore women, sluts and otherwise, get married so they can stop having sex except as necessary to get pregnant.

Think about it.

The girlfriend provides sex good enough to motivate a desire in the man to commit. After the wedding is a period of at least adequate sex followed by a decline to little or nothing if she can get away with this. When the wife becomes suitably frustrated/disenchanted with the marriage she changes title to divorcée and is again free to become a sexual creature.

The source of the problem is that women have very little sense of self that is internally derived therefore they play roles defined externally. These roles are proxies for their identities which barely exist. In 2015 wives are not defined as sexually giving, or sexual at all except for the honeymoon period. If the sexual wife exists in this culture it as the adulteress giving herself to men other than her husband.

Sun Wukong

Oh absolutely. The wife that hates sex is such a “thing” now I really think it’s what makes even Blue Pill guys at least pause on their way to the altar. “Do I really want to put a libido draining fat license on her finger?” I think that premise is largely built out of feminine cynicism about settling for [Beta Bucks]. They all know the script so well that they assume they’re going to marry a guy they don’t want to fuck. Imagine that: assuming you’re going to hate sex for the rest of your life.

What a horrendously awful view of a man you haven’t even met yet. And he’s not even met you but assumes he’ll be happily making love to you for the rest of his life and you’ll do the same. What a disconnect. Oh well, at least the kids will be happy right? Anybody?

What Badpainter and Sun have illustrated here is the direct result of placing a romantic condition for love as the prime requisite for a committed relationship. It’s important to grasp that any relationship founded on genuine desire will necessitate genuine passion and not a small amount of feral lust, however, it is exactly this pre-commitment (Alpha Fucks) sexual chemistry that will later become the exclusive responsibility of a man in that commitment.

The character that is a wife is now socially and popularly expected to move into a sexless, passionless and unexciting condition by being married today. All Epiphany Phase rationalizations aside, marriage is viewed as the end of the party. Being a wife is boring by comparison.

I explored this in detail in Beta Fucks and As Good As It Gets, but what I find ironic in light of Dalrock’s assertions about romance-primary intergender dynamics is that the very pretense of that romantic “true love” context that supposedly legitimizes sex is killed within the confines of marriage. In fact, women expect and anticipate that the sexual desire they find so important in that romantic context will necessarily die once they become a ‘wife’.

The pretext of being a ‘wife’ is a socially excusable expectation of progressively losing sexual affinity for the man she’s agrees to marry, so what woman wants to be a wife? Women become wives due to the necessities an ever-decreasing capacity to maintain being a lover requires of them.

I expect that most women will disagree with me on a personal level; it’s not in women’s best interest to acknowledge that wives hate sex – perpetuating the belief that sex gets better after marriage is a necessity men need to internalize in order to commit. Whether or not this is true for a woman on a personal basis isn’t my point. The point is that the societal message is one that marriage will necessarily kill a couples’ passionate sexual connection in comparison to their single, romance-based sexual connection.

Why ruin a perfectly good relationship with marriage?

The Myth of Mismatched Libidos

Once married, there are myriad social conventions already emplaced for a wife to rely upon as she moves from exciting singleness into mundane, but necessary, long-term commitment. Most of these she’s already been conditioned to expect she can rely on. ‘Mismatched Libidos’ is a common refrain for women (and marriage counselors) who come to a point where they can no longer palate the “duty sex” they felt responsible for in the beginnings of their marriage.

Her husband isn’t expected to provide the ‘tingles, but he’s still responsible for the failure to create them. As I said, only the most exceptional of men can effortlessly inspire the admiration necessary to maintain a woman’s Hypergamous interest. If you have a read of the screen cap Zel provided us with for this post you’ll get an idea of how those pre-made social conventions work in tandem with men’s default responsibility of satisfying a woman’s endless discontent.

The deference is always to the feminine, thus any problem (particularly sexual ones) he has with her become his personal issues and flaws. Any deviation, any dissatisfaction, with the ready-made social conventions set in place to excuse the female sexual strategy are solely his responsibility and his character flaws.

The ship is going down, and I’ve only got three life jackets. Who am I going to give them to? John, you learned to swim a long time ago, right?

In last week’s post comments I quoted the following confessional from Love Shack:

My wife called me today and was all excited about some beachfront apartment she saw. She wants us to buy it for vacations and such.

Now here I am .. I just turned 50. My youngest is going to college this year and I guess I just realized that I’m no longer bound to her.

The last 20 years has been a long series of quickies and 3 minutes handjobs every 3-4 weeks. In between, I spent my prime sexual years mostly masturbating to get off. Now that I’m 50, my drive is still good, but it’s not what it was.

I had tried everything I could think of over those 20 years to get things on track. I was exemplary with chores around the house, I was attentive to her emotional needs as far as I could anticipate them, and even if I do say so myself – I’ve kept myself in outstanding shape (although that was more for me).

On the other hand, I look back and I can hardly remember a time that she spontaneously gave me a neck rub, or cooked something just for me as opposed to all of us, and certainly not even attempting to do something special for me sexually (yeah, I have a minor kink or two).

But when she asked me to buy a beachfront place today – my immediate reaction was annoyance. I realized then that I feel resentful. I have decided to leave her. There is absolutely nothing she can do now to change anything because the past cannot be changed.

This man’s situation represents the ending phase of a chronic lack of admiration on his wife’s part. It would be easy to point out his role is one of being the dutiful unconsidered provider in his wife’s Frame, however, consideration is never a motivator of genuine desire for a woman. Only admiration and an ambient imagination of losing the focus of it inspires genuine desire.

Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo had a post recently outlining the expectations of women interested in “seducing” a man. On GWADT’s blog what’s implied is that this man is in fact her husband to begin with. What makes her points so difficult for married women to digest is that they should ever need to make an effort to do so. The reason this is so alien a thought to married women is because the men they wanted to seduce were the men they knew before they became ‘wives’. Wives have no use for seduction, and particularly so with the Beta men they settled for around their Epiphany Phase. Seduction, compassion, appreciation (such as can be expected of a woman) only become a necessity when women are subjected to a real preoccupation with losing a valuable man – a man they admire.

Even in Frank Sinatra’s time wives had to be told to be lovers too.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Will
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There’s a difference between @rollos “thirsty beta male” and “guy who is passionate, authentic and knows what he wants from his girl while being red pill aware”

Girls want to be the special little snowflake. BUT with a passionate authentic alpha high SMV

Sun Wukong
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@Will

You can be high value and be Blue Pill.

Badpainter
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@ Sun Wukong

I think Will is saying guys that “just get it” should avoid the ‘sphere’s advice. Which if they “get it” they already know, but that’s beside the point. I am, however, eager to see how he next moves the goal posts.

rivelino
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Zelcorpion
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In all my experiences I have encountered very few husbands who had the full desire of their wives. Most of those more Alpha men (with 1 or 2 exceptions who were faithful) were men who had affairs and ran Game constantly. They excited the passion of other women and often their wives demanded more sex than they did themselves. Alpha men are uncontrollable indeed, but I guess that is what makes them so exciting to many. Personally I would not want a stifled legally enforced marriage contract of times past. Of course a reversal of the laws to 1890s level… Read more »

sjfrellc
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My, my, heh heh, out of the blue @Will has lots of hubris. I don’t recall any of Will’s comments on previous posts, but I have to surmise that he didn’t read the original post. Or didn’t understand it. I would also surmise by his comments that he is younger than 27. And he hasn’t had a LTR. (Not meant to be mean Will. This forum is about preventative medicine.) Take it from some old guys with LTR’s. If you’ve made it to 27 years old, congratulations you just finished the easiest time of your life. “With the exception of… Read more »

BuenaVista
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I can’t say I’ve ever had ‘obligation sex.’ Even on the night my ex- divorce ambushed me, she wanted to have sex. Then she kept a nude photo of me on her dresser post-divorce. (Also, the sexual tension remained too high post-divorce for us to navigate the “let’s just be friends for the sake of the children” thing.) So, ironically, I was married to someone who in the end preferred me as a lover, over me as a husband. Thus the many qualities Dragonflygirl describes as components of seduction slowly evaporated, and had I not been so blue pill I… Read more »

midwestboi
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I do not mean to hijack, but I’m looking for some of your opinions including Rollo’s. Found you guys googling this morning. I’m 28, asian, nerdish. Fiance is 24 white. We have been engaged four months. She bullshits about guys in her past. Caught her on Facebook keeping in touch with her exes even if she claimed she doesn’t. It seems as soon as they message she responds and likes to chat. My sister told me it is normal. They are just friends now.I only saw this because she left FB on while in bed. She also made up stories… Read more »

Rude Awakening
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@midwestboi

Dump her. And don’t look back.

Forge the Sky
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@midwestboi, “Don’t ask them, they’re misogynists” is a laughably transparent ploy on her part to control the dialogue and the information you receive. It’s a cliche in these parts now to observe how people will resort to shaming and drama when you approach uncomfortable truths. So why do you think your girl is being less than upfront with you about all these other guys? There are red flags all over the place here. A few key points: – This girl isn’t devoting her attention to a monogamous commitment. She’s playing a game where she had her fun with a bunch… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Err. That is, I’d stick around on this site. I’m not going to tell you what to do, but I’d certainly not encourage you to ‘stick around’ in a relationship that doesn’t give you what you want and need.

TuffLuv
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@midwestboi

If you want to settle down with a chick, presumably including a family, male friends are a deal killer in my book.

She should not be showing any interest in them, and willing to give them all up for you.

I mean, if she’s just your GF, fine, whatever.. But wife? hell no.

Jeremy
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@midwestboi She bullshits about guys in her past. Caught her on Facebook keeping in touch with her exes even if she claimed she doesn’t. As Rollo wrote a post about… The medium is the message: http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/ If she were truly into you, do you think other men would spark her interest enough to seek attention from them on FB? My sister told me it is normal. They are just friends now. Your sister is female. She doesn’t even realize how she’s betraying your trust by trying to reassure you without considering the position you’re being placed in. Don’t blame her… Read more »

Zelcorpion
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@midwestboi – Marriage is a serious investment. If you are uncertain, then do proper due diligence. Install a key-logger and find out what she does online on FB and dating sites.
Even if it’s major flirting, that she does for ego-stroke, then I would drop her like a hot potato. A fiancee on the verge of the wedding should be all butterflies and roses towards her man. If even then she is not, then you might just as well put the cuckold-stamp on your forehead and lubricate your butt for the divorce-rape.

Lucien
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@Will I actually agree with Will. Here’s what I think is going on. Society has changed in fundamental ways: above all, it has become more unequal. In an oligarchic society most men do not get to be swashbuckling heroes with a harem of women. Nor do they get a single, committed wife, like they would under conditions of broad middle class equality like obtained from the 30s to the 60s. They become…slaves, or the equivalent. Some version of that has been true for most of civilization. Now, that is an awkward transition to make. No amount of theorizing is going… Read more »

TuffLuv
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Look.. Straight up tell her.. “this will not do”. Explain in simple terms.. if you think I’ll commit my life to a woman who carries on with other men.. you’re crazy. watch her reaction.. three things can happen. 1. She takes great offense – scolds you for even thinking that way, challenges it quasi-intellectually, and intentionally misinterprets what you are getting at. 2. She downplays it, appeases you (like she has been), get’s you to back down. 3. She submits. Says she can see where you’re coming from. 1. If she won’t even consider sacrificing them for you, forget her.… Read more »

midwestboi
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Thank you for your responses. I am sticking around and started to read Rollo and Return of Kings. I am in debt for your insights and advice. I am listening.

trackback

[…] up with the commodication of sex in general in society is what Rollo notes on his latest post that Wives hate sex. Women utilize sex in order to get men to commit to them for marriage. Once the expectation is set […]

rugby11ljh
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Hey @midwestboi
Look brother I hear you. Keep male friends for that’s online hear me out now most males in my family that got in serious hurt financially and emotionally keeped telling me to never lose my male friends. You need feedback females will not agree with. Think of how all this is coming to you and even my own bias. Just think it helps to have others males talk about stuff that isn’t controlled by a feline environment. Ie school religion and government.

kobayashii1681
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Reblogged this on 254MGTOW and commented:
This….Powerful stuff! Necessary for both single & married men alike!

anon
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Midwestboi: You found the best blog on the internet. Even better than Heartiste. Keep reading. Read it all and read fast. Skip work and turn off your phone for 3 days (avoid calls and texts from this brainwashed modern slut who is using you — good way to get some hand, kill 2 birds with one stone), and read everything on this website. Do not marry her. Have the best sex of your life with her while acting aloof around her for a few months. F the shit out of her. Tie her up and do whatever you’ve been wanting… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Rollo – You’ve hit another way, way out of the park brother. This is the kind of post that wrestles men away from BP cognitive dissonance.
I know you will probably continue receive hearty thanks from our fellow men.
I don’t think we can ever thank you enough, and other like Roosh, Dal etc…
But there’s a way you filter and bring this stuff out bruv!
Thank you, ahsante, ありがとうございます!
I truly appreciate your work.

rugby11ljh
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Anon that is a marvelous post

Jeremy
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@midwestboi

Your girl sounds like this cartoon:

http://therationalmale.com/2015/03/24/betas-in-waiting/comment-page-5/#comment-94493

Sorry to be blunt.

kfg
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@Lucien:

Forge the Sky
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@Lucien I basically agree with you. A lot of men are idealistically trying to create a fantasy reality that can’t stably exist in the real world – even while choking down the red pill. Great sex and devoted women are for the winners and for the fortunate. Not the average man. They never have been; the closest we got to equality was under a system that (a) enforced monogamy; and (b) depicted men as inherently above women. Even then I’m sure many marriages were passionless. So it’s kind of stark. Fight or MGTOW. Idealistic love is for God or poetry,… Read more »

Vulpine
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Oooh, guys, I had a crazy weekend to relate to you. I was invited, with my un-licensed wife, to hot-tub with a couple other women. After the wine started flowing, these 3 gals started talking… the conversation opened directed at my “wife”. Slut(30): So, [Vulpine’s chick], you’re turning 30 this year, too… The 30 y.o. slut started foaming on about her house she’s building this spring for herself on part of her mother’s property. The slut’s mother is single, lives alone with the slut, and hates men for not wanting anything to do with her. When I tried to point… Read more »

Jeremy
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@Vulpine

She went off at one point about “I’m thinking of importing [a man]”, to which I had to laugh.

LOL… That’s so far out there in male=object land… lol, “import” men… It’s like she can’t conceive of men as human beings with their own wants/needs/abilities. “importing” women only works because women seek higher status and if you live in a country where she automatically gets a large bump in living standards, she’ll go. For men, who very much exist by their own merit, not so much.

anon
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Vulpine: funny post. I’m surprised they didn’t literally stomp their feet and storm off. They needed a ride home? Any time I have tried to give any realtalk to “professional” women at parties (lawyers), even stuff that is flat out nondebatable to any man (a human who can think rationally and consider facts), they literally stomp their feet and storm off. Example: given that two women both have the same “credentials,” law degree, job, income and looks, a 26 year old woman offers much more to a man than a 37 year old one does (same looks meaning the 37… Read more »

Vulpine
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Jeremy, imagine my inner-laughing as I thought about the ol’ “men are such dogs for objectifying women!” thing. In my mind, I saw an Amazon drone hovering in front of her door with an OD green, horse-cock-sized, bomb-shaped vibrator that had ” M A N ” stenciled on the front and “made in china” stenciled on the back. The slut’s mother has the slut’s thinking polarized with her own. Rightly so, because if the slut’s mother didn’t actively undermine her own daughter, she’d be living very alone, as her daughter would marry and be off to be successful in ways… Read more »

Robert What?
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I’m in a similar situation : work like a dog to put a roof over head, food on the table, clothes in the closet, etc. But my wife and I haven’t had sex in years. I now think that the Europeans (especially in the south) have it correct: you only have sex with the wife for procreation. Sex for enjoyment and affection is with the mistress.

midwestboi
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Should I forgive the lying? She changes her passwords weekly now (FB and Yahoo Messenger) and I’m sure she does what she likes when alone. I have no trust as is. If I ask her, she manipulates the conversation to make me feel like I’m an abuser and a busy body. She keeps claiming it is “just friends” that contact her. But, I dont think it is right. A caring nurturing woman would have stopped this without me saying anything. I guess I should walk away. You guys are right. I told my sister. She keeps claiming I’m jealous and… Read more »

midwestboi
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Reading your comments I got scared of ever marrying. Wow. I will keep reading.

Jeremy
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@midwestboi Should I forgive the lying? Has her medium of communication changed? If she’s still attention whoring on FB (and even still lying about it), she’s still communicating that she likes attention whoring more than you. So no, don’t forgive it because she’s still deceiving you. I have no trust as is. This is why I suggested scuttling the ship. There’s probably no going back to any form of trust between you two, even if you can get some dread going to spark her competition anxiety, the trust issues remain. Better to start over with someone better. If I ask… Read more »

Zelcorpion
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@midwestboi – I am in a LTR with a quasi angelic girl who does not even use social media, I have all her passwords – not because I spy on her, but because she uses the net only to find out about gardening, health topics, cute puppies & kittens. She is absolutely not into other men. And even her I would not marry and she accepts that. This is a matter of principle already to me. They have destroyed marriage. And your girl does not sound even LTR worthy to me – even less worthy of marriage or motherhood. I… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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@Midwestboi: “I have no trust as is.”

Well at least you have some sort of a base of good sense. Trust in that. It’s speaking truth.

Jeremy
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@Vulpine This is part of the damage that feminism has done that no one ever talks about. In pretending that women have no power in society, feminism has convinced huge swaths of females that they are incapable of causing harm to children. They’ve convinced these women that merely their occasional presence is enough to raise children properly and that anything they can do as a mother is completely forgivable and good for the child. It is a lie. Women have tremendous social power, and wield it without even realizing it. They use these weapons against their own children as they… Read more »

Vulpine
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@anon I’m pretty far from fat. I put on a little buddha over the winter holidays, but, I haven’t been out working on cutting wood and such. My situation is certainly changing, now that it’s spring and I’m out with my “doing stuff clothes” on. There are a lot of “big body moments” involved with homesteading, so, I’m fairly chiseled, ‘cept for my buddha, for now. My gal is actually quite smart. She is also generally reserved, thinks before speaking, and she responds to my input. Obviously, she’s been too comfortable, so I needed to light a fire under her… Read more »

cholo
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@midwestboi It is impossible for women and men to be “just friends”! That’s a lie and rationalization for your “fiance’s” benefit alone. She should be into you alone and no one else. As for your sister, she is a woman, too. She sounds as if she’s more interested in playing with the “wedding game”, as a bridesmaid, right? of course your righteosu act of nexting you alleged fiance will spoil her fun and that’s what she cares about, not your long term prospects. You came over here just in time to prevent a personal catastrophe. Be glad and stickd around.… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

Happy birthday, bro. Wishing you the absolute best in the coming year.

Vulpine
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Jeremy, sounds like you were dragged back-and-forth between divorced parents, too, eh?

I wasn’t exactly a loved-and-cared-for child: I was leverage toward a paycheck, and baggage that cut into that payday, at the same time.

Divorce is not acceptable: it truly is despicable.

My favorite thing to ask a divorced woman is:
“Did you get married in a church?”
If yes…
“Then, you’re a liar, and worthless person.”
after the WTF freakout…
“Because you lied to YOUR god, in HIS house. Shameful!”

sjfrellc
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@midwestboi

Since you are new, Here is the background essay to what Jeremy explained.

http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/

Jeremy
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No, my parents stayed together, and remain together today. My mother had abuse from her father that was never resolved. My father was not “alpha” enough to force her to confront this and the behaviors it was bringing out early on. And in fact, I believe my father surrendered frame nearly immediately in their relationship (just based on what I know, I believe this to be the case). I actually feel bad for both of them, for as far as I can tell, they made their kids so important that they now have no idea how to make friends again… Read more »

Jeremy
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Would the litmus test for a woman never liking *you* but rather liking the ego-salving your presence gives her be the fact that she hit the gym AFTER the breakup rather than during?

Sun Wukong
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@Zelcorpion Also – changing FB passwords every week- WTF? Does she work for the NSA? Yeah this tripped my slutty sense hard. I work for a defense contractor where I have to be pretty paranoid about security, and even I don’t go that far. She’s up to something skeevy, no doubt in my mind. Anyone going to that kind of effort has shit to hide. @midwestboi The other guys here are giving good advice. I’m of the belief that if you’re not married before you come to Red Pill truths about the world, you’re best off ending any relationships you… Read more »

redlight
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@midwestboi

“She changes her passwords weekly…”

how do you know this?

Vulpine
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Nah, Jeremy. Chicks only workout after a relationship is done because, instead of thinking “I can do whatever and get away with it”, they realize “Holy shit! Look at how disgusting I am! I’ll never find another guy like this!” It’s a matter of being complacent, then getting tossed out and having to face reality. The truth is, they’ll never admit to themselves that they are “fat”, only “overweight”, no matter how many extra pounds they have. Moreover, the weight just *PooF* was there, and she’s a victim of the fat: a woman is never the reason for her fatness.… Read more »

midwestboi
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I might have exaggerated about weekly. But it is very often. She does not use her FB and Messenger apps at my place anymore ( because I looked she claims), and when I asked her to see her FB page she could not get in because she kept forgetting the new password.

Thank you all

kfg
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kfg
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“Thank you all”

We’re not here to hate women; we’re here for this. You’re welcome, and thank you for listening.

Jeremy
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@Sun Wukong Your commitment is the only prize you have to give women. She really sounds like she’s done very little to earn that prize and will do absolutely nothing to keep it. That’s a sign that she’s not worthy of it. ^^ great way to sum that up. @Vulpine Nah, Jeremy. Chicks only workout after a relationship is done because, instead of thinking “I can do whatever and get away with it”, they realize “Holy shit! Look at how disgusting I am! I’ll never find another guy like this!” Well, what then would be an easy, but unmistakable sign… Read more »

redlight
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@midwestboi

“when I asked her to see her FB page”

why are you doing this?

if you are mate guarding this relationship is doomed

Jeremy
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Far from learning to hate women here, Rollo Tomassi has done more to help me appreciate women than any other person on earth. Hate springs from frustration and ignorance. Knowing true female nature lets me appreciate them far more than I would have otherwise. Women may be ashamed of their true nature, but that is no justification for hiding it from men. If I wandered into the savanna with a polka-dot knapsack, tin cans rattling overhead and a beginners guide to lions, trying to appreciate the lions… I would probably get eaten inside of a few hours. If instead I… Read more »

anon
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Your sister is giving you horrible advice. Not her fault. She’s a woman and she’s simply 100% feminist-brainwashed as are 100% of her peers her age. “That’s normal.” That doesn’t make it right. You’re “jealous and possessive.” This is a feminist FI gobbely gook attack on men. You should be “jealous and possessive” of your fiance/wife. You are giving her your life, literally, and she has no obligation in return. There is no marriage “contract” anymore. It’s illusory; only the man has obligations. “Until death do us part”? Those are just some words she said, and she has the ability… Read more »

anon
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just to be clear, being “jealous and possessive” does not mean demanding to see her facebook page or knowing her password or (jesus christ) secretly entering it to spy on her when she’s not there. it’s just that you should be a man such that she does not get her joy from attention whoring with beta orbiters online. or if she is actually having sex with other dudes, then (1) run extra fast and (2) you are super duper low beta to not know this is happening while being engaged to her. what is your age and her age? this… Read more »

thedeti
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“To become a billionaire (as noted above) requires numerous Alpha traits. This is not bullshit. It is in a totally different league from a guy that’s a millionaire or even a hundred millionaire. You can still be Blue Pill and be a billionaire though. You are by all accounts high quality, yet can be dangerously Blue Pill” Sun Wukong is correct. The landscape is littered with men who are confident, dominant, prestigious, and competent in every area of their lives EXCEPT intersexual relationships. It’s like they’re two different people. These are men who know how to run businesses and crush… Read more »

Jeremy
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For an example of Deti’s excellent point… just look at: Donald Sterling, Tiger Woods, Donald Trump, etc..etc…

Never forget that just because a man is successful in one area of his life, does not mean he’s not entirely incompetent in some other area. In fact it usually means the opposite, it usually means that man has sacrificed valuable experience and insight in all areas but one.

thedeti
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midwestboi:

Good advice from the crowd. Break this engagement. Dump this woman. DO IT NOW.

Don’t get married.

rugby11ljh
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@midwestboi Ashes divide forever can be (makes me think of blue vs red) a little of your situation It must’ve been very hard To have lived and never learnt To be content with who you are We all want the same things don’t we To find the one who opens channels to our hearts A path you never found upon your own. Forever can be… Something to believe in… But this was one of those times Forever can be… Something to bleed for… But this is one of those times So you dug deep down inside yourself You revealed an… Read more »

thedeti
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midwestboi:

A man should never, ever listen to any advice about intersexual relationships from any woman — especially not from his mother and sisters.

Don’t listen to your sister about this. DO NOT listen to her about this.

Mr T.
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Mr T.
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Midwestboi

I have a question for you

When she comes home does her breath smells like come?
If yes, ask her why.

rugby11ljh
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@anon
“There are no women under 29 today worthy of being mothers.”
That’s so true it almost makes me wanna cry from raw rage. Well said brother well said

Vulpine
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Jeremy, I don’t think it’s always a good indication of disrespect, but bad habits, like baking delicious pies and cobblers, or eating ice cream before bed time. It’s hard to tell a chick, “quit baking me so many yummy confections!” or, “stop feeding me all these carbs!” and be taken seriously. Sometimes it gets to “get skinny, or get out” before it actually registers to women as a problem. Even then, women’s hedonistic minds don’t like to accept responsibility. After all, it just doesn’t feel good to be wrong, so they project the responsibility: that feels much better. The “hamster”… Read more »

Mr T.
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Midwestbou
1,
Does she talk to you as if you’re her little brother?
2,do you struggle with her to give you a BJ and does she swallows?

If yes,
You have 2 options
1,Run to the hills
2,keep running.

midwestboi
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@ everyone

So much to digest. I’m overwhelmed.

Jeremy
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Heh, among the crew I sail with I believe I am one of two men who are not married. The other guy is only 17, so I’m stretching the definition a bit. I regularly get comments from one guy in particular ( as well as all the age 29+ women who occasionally sail with us, or chat with us before/after) that I’m somehow just missing out. Or that I’m clearly “the lifelong bachelor.” I get the standard comments like, “married men live longer,” “you just don’t know what you’re missing,” “ah, ignorant single guy speaks,” etc… It is almost as… Read more »

anon
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“I might have exaggerated about weekly. But it is very often. She does not use her FB and Messenger apps at my place anymore ( because I looked she claims), and when I asked her to see her FB page she could not get in because she kept forgetting the new password. Thank you all” LOL, dude, this relationship will never last. Don’t marry her. 1. She did not forget her password. She didn’t want you to see her page so she lied and pretended to forget her password. The genius host of this blog did a recent post explaining… Read more »

Rude Awakening
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@midwestboi My initial reply was very blunt and brief but that’s because I 1)knew these other guys would do a better job of explaining the why and 2) I think on some level you knew the answer already. We all have gut instincts. Our gut instincts usually signal or warn us of danger or threat before the brain does. Our gut sends more signals to the brain then the brain does to our gut. The majority of the serotonin produced in our bodies comes from our enteric nervous system (your gut). Listen to your gut Trust your gut instincts! Your… Read more »

TuffLuv
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“The marriage strike is real. Women have been liberated, we see the results, and in 15 years exponentially more men will have discovered this blog and there will be no men willing to marry. ” I personally think the de-facto way to say this should just be Study the American Black family’s history from 1960 – present. Look at the results of the destruction of the black family, entitlement of black women, and the resulting stereo-typical black woman and black man today, and their relationships.. and you will see exactly where it is heading for the rest of us men.… Read more »

sjfrellc
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@midwestboi April 2nd, 2015 at 4:14 pm “So much to digest. I’m overwhelmed.” It is owerwhelming. But relax you have lot’s of options and lots of time to look in to the Manosphere. The Manosphere has been developing from roots planted 14 years ago and you just happened to stumble into what the BluePillProfessor called “The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi is in a category by itself- the intellectual tour-de-force of the entire manosphere and TRP theory. The Rational Male is a graduate course level of writing by Rollo and most of the commentators here have been here for some… Read more »

anon
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@Vulpine: some women do work out without prompting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaQp3-TbaVs. Show this to your woman. @ everyone else: there is an entire section of youtube with these super fit fitness model women doing their workouts — very impressive. Does not prove my point about “no women fit to be mothers” today — each of these women is perhaps aged 23 to 29 or 32 — would pass on good genes… none of them, of course, is close to within 8,000 miles of accepting the idea that she should have a kid at any time prior to when she is 35 years… Read more »

anon
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“The important thing to realize is that almost everyone is giving you advice they wish the would have gotten earlier in life.”

This. Dude, you are lucky. The world is your oyster. You are young and there are thousands of sexy women for you.

Discovering this stuff after getting married, having kids, and getting divorced while being blue pill/beta? That’s a life-destroying hell.

You have the ability to dump this girl AND get a new hottie to flaunt in her face within ONE WEEK, easily. You just don’t know it.

rugby11ljh
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@anon “and shaming women that want to be” its one of the few times in public where I walk away
Out of all the things that comes with the red pill that’s the saddest truth to accept about it. It’s kinda like saying hey be gay loved dick if your a guy if your a women go out and fuck!
But to a young women to be brutalized for wanting to raise children?
That’s not just political that’s dehumanzing

kfg
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kfg
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” some women do work out without prompting”

She’s a pro. That’s not without prompting, that’s a girl having to make a living.

Sun Wukong
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I think I’ve figured out the greatest thing I could do for mankind.

I should figure out how to create a virus that permanently alters the DNA of every human on the planet to have a new trait. If their height:weight ratio goes to overweight, they just keel over instantly. None of this getting to obese anymore. Motherfuckers just die.

Forge the Sky
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@Jeremy “Well, what then would be an easy, but unmistakable sign that a girl was never really into you? Obviously, if she really gets the tingles from you, and you withdraw or threaten to leave, she will take action. But what if she used to feel that way, and no longer does; or what if she never did but you were too blue-pill to understand… then shouldn’t there be an unmistakable signal that she only had you around for validation?” I think you’re looking for a certainty that can’t ever really exist. There can be indications but not certainty; women… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Rollo

Damn, that sounds like a bear!

Happy birthday! I’m not sure what whiskey brands you designed, but I’ll make a reasonable guess at it and raise a glass to ya!

Forge the Sky
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Don’t want to comment wall y’all here, but I just wanted to say, @Vulpine , good stories this week! You have good examples of holding frame without giving off that tacky PUA paper alpha vibe. Or the ‘skittles guy’ style sociopath vibe.

I happen to base in Michigan. If midwestboi is here too we could throw him through the gauntlet, ha.

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

Truly Canadian

Does that mean it apologizes if it burns?

Forge the Sky
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Ha! I guessed right.

Seraph
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Rollo, Just bought Preventive Medicine on Kindle, am about halfway through. I debated buying it because I have been reading your blog for years now, so I have many if not all of the posts which form the basis of it. However, I am glad I did because I find the format and your additions to it are helping make things more clear for me. Been reading Red Pill stuff for, what? 5 years now, maybe more, and while it has been highly informative. I am finding, as you mention often, how hard it is to truly shift the mental… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@ Happy B’day Sensei!

kobayashii1681
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*@Rollo

Forge the Sky
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Man, I thought I was reaching with that guess. The aesthetics just seemed right I suppose.

Good stuff. Even though it’s Canadian, it kinda feels like an American answer to Sortilege.

http://www.sortilegewhisky.com/en/prestige/

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

Hehe, might give the stuff a try this weekend. Perhaps while I sit outside in the nice weather and listen to the show.

Seraph
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Hmmm, some of my ‘charts’ were off.

WOMAN CHILDREN
MAN CHILDREN
MAN WOMAN*

Should have looked like this:

WOMAN CHILDREN

MAN CHILDREN

MAN WOMAN

And MAN WOMAN like this:

MAN WOMAN

Seraph
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Well, fuck…teaches me not to learn HTML…

Anyway, MAN WOMAN was supposed to have arrows flowing between the two…

And the first one the arrows were supposed flow from CHILDREN to WOMAN and MAN.

Forge the Sky
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@Seraph Nice stream-of-consciousness epiphany there. The dynamic you describe is crucial. You don’t need to disrespect women as human beings or any radical shit like that, but it’s amazing how much more naturally things flow with them if you just gain a sort of consciousness of their noise and drama as so much hubbub. It doesn’t merit your emotional investment. Listen for consistent patterns and actual thoughts/observations; pay no mind to the rest of it, except to play and tease with it. Of course, understanding this is a corrective against supplication; some degree of sympathy and comforting isn’t to be… Read more »

midwestboi
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Thank you all for your time and advice. You have been a source of hope.

Have a good evening.

Jack-Jack
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@midwestboi Listen to these @Rollo, @vulpine, @sun, @thedeti and everyone else. They speak nothing but truth and are willing to teach and share with those who are ready to listen! Be ready to listen! Leaving the Matrix is hard but it makes you stronger and, just like Neo in the movies ,you begin to see the underlying code that governs the SMP and if you can see it, you are now better off than all the Betas, Gammas, Omegas, and Incels around. These teachings improve lives and relationships. Rollo et. al have helped me. They can help you too If… Read more »

Will
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@ Lucien and @forge the sky

Yup. You guys are getting what I’m saying a little more now.

AND @MIDWEST

Same thing happened to me with my ex and she ended up breaking up with me.
ASK YOURSELF THIS AND TELL US:

IS SHE DENYING YOU SEX EVER? OR SAYING “I HAVE A STOMACH ACHE NOT TONIGHT”????

If so start flings with other girls ASAP.

Will
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Will
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The answer to that question will TELL YOU WHAT TO DO believe you

No? You’re chill probably
Yes? Run for other girls

Anonymous
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Solipsism.

She is happy without sex, therefore everyone else is too.

It’s also why the bottom 80% of men are invisible. Women can get sex on tap, therefore all men can too.

tsotha
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On a side note: why the fuck does anybody worth over 8 figures ever get married? I really can’t figure this shit out. Girlfriend: I’m going to leave you if you don’t marry me. Me (as a billionaire): Hold on, let me pull out my phone and call your replacement. It’s so hard to choose. There’s like a few thousand of them in here seeing as I’m a fucking billionaire and all… I mean seriously what the hell? She probably will leave billionaire you. She’s there for the money and only marriage gives her control of the money. If it… Read more »

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