In the last comment thread Rational Male regular, Glenn, had an interesting exchange that went like this:
My marriage exactly. And she really did turn on me by the time my daughter was 2, also having two miscarriages. It was as though a switch went off and she simply fucking hated me. In my case, I had too much dignity and many women who were interested in me who seemed quite fine, so I put my foot down and my ex then just began an affair with a Plan B she had in the wings (hotties always have a Plan B guys, especially wives). She married him and destroyed him too, but it wrecked my relationship with my daughter along the way. So much destruction and pain.
I often look back on my marriage now from the RP perspective and have started to blame myself for not being more dominant and not seeing shit tests for what they were etc, but I also wonder if there was anything I could have done? She was hot, there were always good looking guys willing to fuck her – I mean, is it just inevitable for some women?
As I’m finishing up the final edits of the next book, I’m once again reminded of its main purpose – a cautionary explanation of what men can expect of contemporary women at the various phases of their maturity. In Anger Management I detailed the anger men direct at themselves, not at the women who followed a natural predictable ‘flow’ of rationalizations and social conventions they can be expected to as their conditions in life dictate. Naturally any anger a man may deal with or express in this regard is always presumed to be directed towards women. A feminine dominant social order is one founded on the innate solipsism of women.
Now, before I dig in a bit deeper here, I want to make clear that while Glenn’s comment started my thinking process about this week’s topic, what I’m going to get at here isn’t a reflection on anything personal. His story of being “turned on” by a wife he believed was playing on his team is a very common one related by many a post-divorced man using the hindsight of a Red Pill lens.
I’m adding this caveat since only Glenn can really say for himself whether his mindset at the time he first met, and later married, the wife who turned on him was colored by Blue Pill idealism and / or a Beta self-perception. My guess, as with most men in his situation, was that he actually had what was a realistic expectation of a reciprocal relationship based on what he thought would be her genuine appreciation of his efforts and merits.
Betas at the Epiphany
I’ve discussed in several prior threads the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks strategy women use in both the short and long term. What I think needs a bit more explanation is the long term effects of that strategy on the Beta man’s mindset as a result of his fem-centric conditioning.
When a woman approaches and enters into her Epiphany Phase, she has a limbic understanding that her genetic chips need to be cashed in with a man who has ‘proper’ long term provisioning potential. For the greater part, those men are at least expected by women to have a Blue Pill, Beta conditioning that will make them more compliant with, now, what’s becoming an unignorable open Hypergamy.
These are the men Sheryl Sandberg describes as,
“…someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.”
These are nice euphemisms used to describe a man willing to accept his position of powerlessness in the grand scheme of feminine-primacy and open Hypergamy for his participation in realizing women’s dominant sexual strategy.
The Beta man encountering this new found attraction convinces himself that women’s interest in him is genuine and organic. In a sense it is, but although this attraction (not to be confused with arousal) is perceived as genuine on the part of women, it’s an attraction born of necessity. That necessity is the need to consolidate on monogamy with a man who’ll willingly ignore not just her past Alpha Fucks indiscretions, but participate in what he’s been conditioned to believe is his duty as a man from society and start to build a “mature adult” life with her.
A Beta at the Epiphany phase believes his ship has finally come in and his self-righteous AFC strategy of patience and perseverance will be rewarded. The social conventions at the time make him believe he’s to be more lauded for ‘forgiving’ a woman’s past, irrespective of whether he can expect praise for looking past her misgivings.
The Alpha Widow or carousel riding wife-to-be may then convince herself that she in fact actually sees an Alpha potential, or a potential for long term success, in ‘settling’ on that Beta in the long term. While I have had men relate horror stories about women knowing that they were settling and being insecure about their futures before or at the time of their wedding, I’m going to suggest that this foreknowledge is rarely a conscious aspect of women’s insight. “Turning” on their husband-to-be later in is life rarely a preconceived plan, but it is a predictable outcome for men who persist in a Beta mindset throughout their marriages.
Getting Her Settled Best
Saving the Best continues to be a seminal post on Rational Male, not the least of which because so many men could relate to the experience. However, this may not have been the experience of discovering a sexual past his wife had no intention of ever allowing him to share with her , but rather the expectation men have of receiving a woman’s ‘sexual best’ in marriage. That may not amount to the sexual experimentation she had in her Party Years, but for a Beta who believes his patience and virtue are to be rewarded at long last it is an expectation of enjoying the same or better sexual urgency his wife-to-be shared with her past lovers.
That Beta believes it’s his turn, because why else would a woman commit to a lifetime investment in a man she didn’t think was her best option?
Remember, during the Epiphany Phase a woman’s rationale for choosing the Beta for a long term investment is because she’s “experienced it all” and finally “knows better than to keep dating the Bad Boys who don’t appreciate her.” Thus the Beta believes he must be the best option for her by virtue of her investment in that belief.
And if she’s finally come to realize he’s the best option, why would she not expect to enjoy her best sexual performance with him? After all, even Sheryl Sandberg said, “…in time, nothing’s sexier.”
For the Alpha Widow marrying the Beta-in-waiting, the comparison of his sexual appeal with prior lovers conflicts with her need to finalize the long term security she couldn’t with her previous Alphas (or the men she perceived as Alpha). Thus comes reserved, self-restrained and self-conscious sex with her new Beta provider. She knows that sex with her Beta lacks the intensity of her prior lovers, but falls back on her Epiphany Phase rationalizations that she’s “doing it for the right reasons this time”.
That right reason being of course getting pregnant to further consolidate long term provisioning.
Our Beta simply lacks the same sexual experience as his wife-to-be to know any better (unless of course he finds proof of that experience later), but he gradually suspects her progressive lack of passion, reservations and self-consciousness by comparing it to porn or some of the other women’s he’s had sex with.
Social conventions abound for women to rely on as they become less incentivized to have sex with their Beta after the first child. Body image considerations, ‘mismatched libidos’ and “well, sex is supposed to taper off after marriage, everyone knows that” are just some of the prepackaged tropes ready for use.
The Turning
Once the first (and possibly second) child arrives, a woman’s order of intimate priorities changes, “turns” to that of the child. The sex “reward”, the ‘cookie time for good boy’, for desired behavior or performance ‘turns’ off, or sex is used as an intermittent reward for desired behavior (i.e. Choreplay). Sex becomes a utility; a positive reinforcer for her Beta increasing his provisioning capacity rather than the true visceral enjoyment she had with her past lovers.
This new functionality sex represents to a wife becomes ‘turning’ on her husband who believed he would always be her most intimate priority. In the instance of a woman marrying her ‘Alpha Provider’ this may in fact be the case, but as with the hierarchies of love that Alpha doesn’t have the same concern with, and didn’t marry his wife under the same pre-expectations a Beta does.
For the man who persists in his Beta mindset (or the guy who regresses into that mindset) this ‘turning’ becomes more and more pronounced. The turning comes out of the bedroom and into other aspects of their relationship – finances, familial ties, her expectations of his ambitiousness, his asserting himself at work or with their mutual friends – on more and more fronts he’s compared to other men and the ghosts of the Alphas she knows or has known.
Even though the Beta is aware his children are now his wife’s true priority, his Blue Pill conditioning still predisposes him to sacrifices. Again, he meets with ready-made social conventions that shame his discontent; “Is sex all that’s important to you?” It shouldn’t be, because it’s really “what’s on the inside that counts”, but he can’t shake the feeling he’s slipping out of her respect.
This is when Beta Dad doubles down. His Blue Pill expectations of himself require an all-consuming, self-sacrificing predisposition. The horse will work harder. His wife may have lost respect for him by this point, but his sense of honor and duty press him on. He doesn’t want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. He wants to ‘out-support’ his father’s ghost, or what he believes ‘other guys’ would do when their marriages get tough.
So he waits it out, but she’s ‘turned’ on him by this point. It wasn’t planned, but all of his martyr-like determination only makes her that much more resentful for having settled on this Beta. After a certain stressing point, her disinterest or indignation goes even beyond his capacity to stay committed to a losing investment. These are the guys who tell me, “Damn Rollo, where where you when I was 30? I wish I’d known then what I know now.”
Do all marriages and relationships follow this schedule? No, but it’s important that men know the signs, understand what’s really expected of them and know when they’re being settled on despite all a woman’s self-interested refutations of that. It’s important they realize that performance isn’t limited to how well they meet a woman’s expectations, but that performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.
It’s important that he lives in his own Frame and that any woman, wife or otherwise, participates in his Frame at his pleasure. Beta men rarely have those expectations, beginning from a position of scarcity and a preconditioned responsibility to forgive a woman’s sexual strategy while still being gushingly appreciative that she chose him to settle on.
@myrealitie
LOL. And the earth’s orbit lies somewhere between Pluto and the Sun. You made my point for me, thank you.
Sexy = Alpha Fucks
Reliable = Beta Bucks
Translation: “optimize Hypergamy for me”
@Jeremy – you are making no sense and you are being rude.
Hypergamy is real but you cannot constrain it. All you can do is start becoming the best person you can be. That is the best option in all scenarios. Stop making excuses and wasting time blaming others and society.
@Rollo – why wouldn’t a woman want to do that? And what is wrong with it exactly? What woman doesn’t want to be married to a sexy man who turns her on and who will probably stick around providing she isn’t an insufferable brat?
@myrealitie,
The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Stratgies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed, the other’s must be compromised or abandoned.
Men have a bigger investment at stake in satisfying a woman’s Hypergamy than any woman will ever have in compromising for men’s sexual imperative.
You’re only embracing an open for of Hypergamy, you’ll excuse me if I give my readership fair warning about rewarding women’s duplicity in their sexual strategy.
@Jeremy
Haha, haven’t you heard? Vague hand-waving is now actionable science. Come, let’s go build skyscrapers with this knowledge!
@myrealitie I’ve made no excuses. I’ve not blamed anyone but myself (and perhaps my parents) for the situation I personally find myself in. You put those in your responses to me to deflect any requirement on you to define what it is you’re talking about. This conversation isn’t even about me. You calling me rude is another hilarious female tactic. Because I asked you to properly define something you brought up, somehow I’m being rude. I’ll ask you again… PLEASE DEFINE, “HAPPY MEDIUM” in a way that covers all women, at all times of their life. I can define it… Read more »
@myrealitie
You’re vividly illustrating points that you’re trying to refute with each post you make. You’re being a solipsistic insufferable brat. Now bugger off, read more, and talk a lot less.
Oh and don’t complain about men “being rude” when you step in a male space and start contradicting them. I don’t walk up in your gaggle of girlfriends, rub one out on the table, then expect to be welcomed back.
@Glenn Feel your pain bro. Hope you’re in a better place now. Nothing quite like suffering the illusion that you and your lovely bride are in a bunker together – you two against the world! ha! – only to start getting knifed in the back. That’s red-pill education, the hard way. Women believe the media Fairy Tale. Mr. Right will bring fame, fortune, un-ending happiness, excitement, status, and envy from her peers. When that doesn’t play out, she’s got One Big Person to blame. You. *Everything* that is wrong in her life is because you didn’t provide the impossible. I… Read more »
@Jeremy – Yes, you’re right. It’s all hopeless. Just “go your own way.”
@ GWDT – And I don’t mean to be vicious to you, you have been nothing but kind and understanding here. In fact, to be truthful, your demeanor here fucks with my mind. It’s like I can’t help but hope that there are some woman like you out there. I never wanted to be bitter. I never wanted to be a lone wolf, on the prowl, banging women and moving on. I actually wanted a family, I took great pride in being a “good man” and was willing to do all that entailed. I thought it was a worthy cause… Read more »
@myrealitie
“I agree that women reach an epiphany at some point that they have to stop dating exciting but unreliable guys,”
Literally describing AF/BB,
@myrealitie Yes, you’re right. It’s all hopeless. Just “go your own way.” This is not only a fantastic display of solipsism, it’s a textbook example of female argument tactics on display. 1) I don’t have to define anything, you’re just bitter. 2) I don’t have to define anything, stop blaming others. 3) I don’t have to define anything, stop making excuses. 4) I don’t have to define anything, yes, it’s all hopeless, just give up. I’m still waiting for a definition. Perhaps at some point, you’ll remember this conversation is not about me (but I don’t hold my breath for… Read more »
I agree that MEN reach a RED PILL RIGHTEOUS KARMA STATE at some point and that they have to stop committing to women who have spent their youths in various states of alpha fux, but I don’t think past sexual experience is the only thing that makes an former carousel riding alpha widow intolerable. I think it’s just that she is a self-indulgent opportunist with no self-awareness, and nothing makes a man feel used and manipulated inside faster than being led to perform for a mid lane-change woman with no sense of gratitude and an hyper-inflated SMV. There is happy… Read more »
@Bromeo
Women were raised with that as their reality while we weren’t. They can’t figure out why it would piss us off to find out later in life that’s the game we were trying to play with rules from a completely different game. They were not raised in the male reality and are largely incapable of grasping it.
@Bromeo – it’s just like anything else in life. When you are young you think you can make it in the NBA, and hopefully you get realistic enough fast enough to secure a career doing something rewarding and enjoyable before bartending is your only option. AF/BB isn’t a black and white dichotomy. That is all I am saying, really. There are men out there who are can elicit a woman’s respect and love and sexual arousal but who will also make lifetime commitments. I always try to encourage women to go after them instead of the shiny super AF’s before… Read more »
@Jeremy, re: “It’s like the born-to-wealth-guy getting pissed off enough to publicly denounce the latter guy as “just looking for validation” for daring to buy himself a luxury automobile.”
Been there. Thirty years ago I walked into a Ferrari dealer willing and able to pay cash for a 308. But I talked myself out of it “I’m no Magnum” and into a staidlier, instead of studlier, vehicle. I could theoretically pick up a barely driven 16M for under $200K that I’ve got my eye on.
@myrealitie AF/BB isn’t a black and white dichotomy. That is all I am saying, really. Only a woman could say that, for only a woman has never lived with the burden of performance. You have no idea what you’re talking about if you actually believe that. It’s virtually impossible to be both AF and BB at the same time… ONLY rich natural alpha males can claim to satisfy both requirements. I shouldn’t need to tell you how rare that is, or how systemically opposed the activities of an “alpha” are from a BB scenario. If you really believe that AF/BB… Read more »
@Razorwire – I agree with everything you wrote. I don’t see how it invalidates anything that I wrote. I think they live perfectly well in harmony together.
Sun Wukong – “And if these dudes sound mad, they are. But not at you, per se. You’re just the messenger. They’re mad at a culture that tossed them aside, treated them as toxic waste, lied to them, strip mined them for value, then tossed them aside. The social contract was flaunted and burned right in front of them.” And here we see a problem game can’t actually solve. New Yorker, and eon would say everything is just great for the true Alpha’s, and the perfect perforers, who reap the magical rewards the rest of us, my self in particular,… Read more »
Glenn waxes loquacious here, and it’s good for him. We can punch him in the arm, and he’s not going to fall in love with us or anything.
“I’m too old to even pull a quality woman”
Dude, it’s not your age, and probably not your (shrinking) gut. It’s just that there’s so few “quality” women.
@myrealite, re: “A woman can be very attracted to a man like this for life”
Provide some evidence, please. Provide any evidence, please. Please provide evidence that any woman has ever done so.
re: “Guys like this keep women very happy.”
Is the definition of a beta. An alpha is a guy whom women strive to make very happy.
Razowire – “…but I don’t think past sexual experience is the only thing that makes an former carousel riding alpha widow intolerable…”
She is simply too old. The youthful zest for life has been taken from her and all that remains are the fears and insecurities of a woman approaching the end of her biological utility. All that remains or life are the manufactured goals and dreams of the material world built by men.
@jf12 Been there. Thirty years ago I walked into a Ferrari dealer willing and able to pay cash for a 308. But I talked myself out of it “I’m no Magnum” and into a staidlier, instead of studlier, vehicle. I could theoretically pick up a barely driven 16M for under $200K that I’ve got my eye on. Sheeit… not only do I need to hit up this comment section for sail trim advice from clear experts, I need to hit people up for financial advice as well. Jesus, I’d better not reveal my lack of credentials, I’ll look like the… Read more »
Guys, do pay attention to the commonality that myrealitie and girlwithadragonflytattoo are saying about men they consider to be men: it’s not looks and not abs and not wealth. It’s dominance. Treating her as a lesser being. Period.
@Jeremy, I’ve made two fortunes and lost both (last time was the dotcom crash). I’d sadly have to finance the $200K. Even sadder is that I could, with just a signature, tomorrow. Saddest of all is that I could probably flip it and make a few bucks.
Great comments. Thank you Rollo.
@ascension, I cohabitated with my first LTR fifteen years ago. Went like you would read about in a typical marriage. Within a year she was fat and the sex was gone. I kept going to the gym and trying to get things to work with her while she sat around eating chocolate and watching Gone With the Wind. Within three months of that she was cheating on me with a married Mexican guy who was older then I am today. I moved out immediately and was forced to buy out the lease. I also had to pay for the damages… Read more »
Folks on the manosphere are over-playing the ‘road to nirvana is being more Alpha’ meme. It sets men up for more disappointment after they obediently jump through all the right hoops.
Yes, we should strive to fulfill our masculine potential, for our own personal growth and satisfaction. And yes, it will yield better results with women.
But it will not protect you from women pursuing their own restlessly changing objectives backed by the force of the State.
Hell….Paul Fucking McCartney got punked by a one-legged whore.
@Badpainter, re: “a very small number of chosen men who simply are”
A very small number of men who have simply chosen to be dominant towards women. I’m actually agreeing with the girls now, that it is a whole lot easier to dominate women than men have been told. I mean easier objectively; it can be very difficult subjectively since it feels so wrong to be bad. I do think it’s women’s fault, both ways: It’s women’s fault for making it so easy for bad boys, and it’s women’s fault for making it so difficult for nice guys.
My regular vehicle is a little blue Ranger I’ve driven for 15 years. I’ve bought my wife three other cars since.
http://xkcd.com/80/
@rpa, re: “It sets men up for more disappointment after they obediently jump through all the right hoops.”
Right. Depending on what you mean by right. The road to “better results” with women is paved with bad intentions. Be disobedient; jump through the wrong hoops; intend on leaving a trail of tears in your wake.
@ jf12 – I am nothing if not loquacious. I guess I’m just dropping through a another level of the matrix or something. It’s like I’ve been getting a dreadful clarity about this the past two months. Getting honest with myself most of all. I’m so fucking pissed, i used to think I’d let it go but I think what is really true is that I was still in denial. This shit kind of wrecked my life in a big way. Truly. And I guess I’m finally getting present to the impact and how I feel about it all. Like… Read more »
re: McCartney. Guess what his album dedicated to his new wife was?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kisses_on_the_Bottom
@Glenn, re: “well, I guess what I’m saying is “Are there any?””
Well, I guess what I’m saying (besides NO!) is it doesn’t matter since even if you were Paul F. McCartney you’re not going to get one anyway.
Reading through the comments, only re-enforces the enormity of the problem. Hypergamy DOES NOT CARE. It will devour with insatiable appetite. A landscape filled with bitterness and sorrow awaits the AFC male. Rollo’s book should be mandatory reading for high school boys. Be prepared gentlemen. The fields are filled with casualties. Godspeed!
From the original post: “…It’s important they realize that performance isn’t limited to how well they meet a woman’s expectations, but that performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.” I am trying to internalize this as best I can. My wife is 21 weeks pregnant, with our first child, and I am hoping that with my new-found red pill knowledge, things will work out between us; only time will tell. However, regardless of how my marriage works out, I have recently realized that taking TRP has… Read more »
The big issue I have with what the women are saying here is that they feel unsafer with nice guys. The big lesson for me in a whole year of manosphering is that women cannot bring themselves to say that they know they need to feel fear of a man for themselves to act right. So you can just mentally give women a pass on that, and Just Get It instead.
@Glen, We have a similar story though I’m roughly twenty years behind. I do not want my son to bail on me the way your daughter did. I cannot be a real father to him anymore as the state has removed me from his life for the most part. My punishment for being a faithful husband slave. We share much of the same anger. I guess it never fully goes away. Do you have any advice for a man in your shoes twenty years ago? To try to be a farther when I get to make no decisions regarding my… Read more »
jf12 – “…they know they need to feel fear of a man for themselves…”
I am starting to think winning her fear is winning, winning her love is inconsequential.
@David W, re: “no longer suffering from constant confusion in regard to dealing with women is the single most beneficial aspect for me; and I am experiencing the benefits in my personal and professional relationships.”
I’m pretty sure this would be Rollo’s desired outcome. I too feel a lot more self-confidence, but a lot less confidence in women, and although I now know I can easily get another (and, just saying, better) woman any time I chose to, that hasn’t translated into *relationship* benefits per se.
@jf,
The day I left my ex wife, the very last time we had sex, she asked me why I didn’t just hold her down and take her whenever I wanted. That confused me badly as it went against everything I had been taught. It’s truly what they want though. Women desperately want to be dominated. To be controlled. To be owned. It’s their nature and no amount of social conditioning can change it.
I wish I would have figured this out sooner.
“The entire point of beauty is to win men’s sexual selection over other possible candidates”
not exactly, it is to be able to win
for example, a high SMV woman can just by her looks/style/flair can “say” to a lower SMV woman “I could fuck your husband if I wanted to” and this coerces compliance
My condolences to all the ladies and Bronies that read the comments section on RM. No penis shots in 50 Shades movie.
Fifty Shades Laid Bare
“They were privy to everything just not my manhood,” Dornan says on a recent afternoon in Los Angeles. To portray the sexually dominant Grey, Dornan donned a flesh-colored pouch while filming the love scenes.
@BP “She is simply too old. The youthful zest for life has been taken from her and all that remains are the fears and insecurities of a woman approaching the end of her biological utility. All that remains or life are the manufactured goals and dreams of the material world built by men.” I was trying to stay true to the genius so artfully crafted by MR as to how to be a better beta-in-waiting. Not really my words. But it still works, the passage said past sexual experience is not the ONLY thing. Oldness is certainly one other. Once… Read more »
@Rollo Tomassi
Woman in response: What’s that!?! I couldn’t hear anything over the sound of my own hypergamy! Something about “investment” “satisfying a woman” ??
I think Dread works a little different from what I thought I was hearing. In personal and professional relationships having potential options, i.e. additional alternatives, is a good first step. But I think the Dread comes from the further (to me, a lot bigger) step of a realizable threat of abandonment.
IOW I don’t think it’s the fact that her husband could easily swing another girlfriend that causes any shaping up on her part. It’s the fact that she could be shipped out.
@jf12
Dude, it’s not your age, and probably not your (shrinking) gut. It’s just that there’s so few “quality” women.
The problem is that there’s so few women remaining that aren’t absolute shit in every quantifiable way, never mind “quality”. I’d be happy if I could find somewhere to regularly pull ass that I’m genuinely attracted to instead of just a live target to fuck.
@redlight, re: “this coerces compliance”
Yes. Women are all about other women’s behavior. Not to win men or influence men.
Yeah Glenn. The powers-that-be have intentionally created a free market where women *continually* maximize their SMV to get the best deal from men. Thanks for helping me visualize it. The ‘commitment’ of marriage is just a stable platform for them to pursue the next jump. All of the frictional costs of divorce have been removed – and cash and prizes thrown in for good measure – so hypergamy is unregulated and encouraged. This is the goal of feminism. (Feminists won. And men, children and women too, lost.) The days of old husbands and wives basking in their progeny as esteemed… Read more »
@ Jeremy
Sheeit… not only do I need to hit up this comment section for sail trim advice from clear experts, I need to hit people up for financial advice as well. Jesus, I’d better not reveal my lack of credentials, I’ll look like the baby of the crowd.
If you’re a young person here is the best financial advice you’ll ever get. Get good at sales. Learn about a specific product and how to sell it. It doesn’t matter what it is. Anything. That’s it. Done. I wish somebody had told me that at age 20.
@jf12 But I think the Dread comes from the further (to me, a lot bigger) step of a realizable threat of abandonment. Yes, exactly. This is why I think marriage is a horrible horrible framework for men. It’s not just about emasculation, it’s about implicitly killing off your strongest bargaining position: “I could and will abandon you at any moment if you fuck up.” It needs to be implicit too, as otherwise you’re putting across an ultimatum. Ultimatums come from a position of weakness. Marriage explicitly says “I won’t leave without an extreme cost to myself.” Non-married LTR implicitly says… Read more »
@zdr01dz
Get good at sales. Learn about a specific product and how to sell it. It doesn’t matter what it is. Anything. That’s it. Done. I wish somebody had told me that at age 20.
The best way to sum up how to sell was in The Wolf of Wall Street.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84359240&v=9UspZGJ-TrI&x-yt-ts=1421782837&feature=player_detailpage#t=46
As for how to link images, just drop a URL that leads to an image. WordPress converts it to an inline image.
@Sun Wukong, re: “[bottoms] that I’m genuinely attracted to”
Maybe my standards are too low, but physical attraction is way too easy (way, way, way too easy …). As deti keeps reminding, most girls are fine enough that way. A little curve, a little wiggle, a little skin, …; it doesn’t take much is what I’m saying.
But even the mental/emotional attraction is easy, which is I think why I’m beta. A little giggle, a little flirt, a little togetherness, …; I really need to keep my distance. More than I have been. Them bare hooks is sharp-sharp.
@Sun Wukong, You really need to move out of the south. Colorado has the largest amount of thin women. Then Utah. Try moving out west. @ascension It’s not only a continuously churning market that you can’t escape even through marriage, it’s a market where female SMV has been grossly artificially inflated. The only true escape is MGTOW but that’s hardly rewarding to me. Just look at the fat acceptance movement. It’s designed to encourage women to be fat while still thirsting for attractive men. As jf12 posted the fat acceptance movement drives up the self-perceived SMV of all women. As… Read more »
@ Razorwire – “…Perhaps the male version of the thousand cock stare is…” I call that the Forlorn Hope. The hope against all odds that this might be different, and yet it’s the same again, and again, and again. It concerns me as well, mostly my increasing loss of interest, my increasing indifference, my increasing desire to be intentionally cruel. A few weeks ago I went out and instead of making approaches I setup approach/rejection situations. Make approach dismiss opportunity for shallow frivolous reasons, note results, repeat until bored. I did feel bad telling the one girl she was too… Read more »
@Glenn I ask most of those same questions on the regular. One of my biggest challenges is to balance my emotional investment with the polarity of complete withdrawal. Going cold and hard. I’ve gone quite some time without empirical evidence that there are women out there who are worth my effort let alone my life. It doesn’t mean they aren’t out there but it is not a source of encouragement/optimism either. I reckon I’m better off finding other sources of encouragement and optimism than I am obsessing over a question I cannot answer* or building a house of negative assumptions… Read more »
@Sun Wukong
Is it just abandonment we should be going for? Or being replaced? It’s one thing if a guy simply leaves, quite another if it’s clear he has options. IOW, I think real dread must have an implicit factor of, “Women still flirt with me openly,” or it isn’t as motivating.
@ myrealitie
A woman can be very attracted to a man like this for life EVEN IF she dated the more unreliable types in her teens and early 20’s.
Attractive enough to fakk until an old bf (1 of 50) shows up. Ol’ Unreliable.
Who gives a fakk what women want? Pump & Dump.
@Badpainter, re: “Make approach dismiss opportunity for shallow frivolous reasons”
There’s the problem. You need to work to find deep solemn reasons to dismiss. “I don’t want to find out that we’re so good together, because then think of all the past time that was lost!”
@StringsofCoins You really need to move out of the south. Colorado has the largest amount of thin women. Then Utah. Try moving out west. Aye, that’s advice I’ve heard. They’re probably no more marriageable, but at least they’re fuckable. I plan to move away from here within a year, maybe a year and a half. Working on making the professional arrangements to do so, as my current employer really isn’t concerned with my physical location when working. Brilliant illustration by the way. A cleaned up version should be presented alongside Rollo’s SMV graph. I seriously think those two graphs tell… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong HAHA! That’s going right into the Netflix Queue. I gotta see Wolf. Those guys are right about urgency. I sell a service and in the past I just bid a price. Then one day on accident I included a specific date to do the work as well as the price. BOOM! It sold fast. From then on I always included a date with the price. Without a date people sit around forever and don’t decide. Some forget altogether. But with a date more people call to seal a deal fast. Realistically the deal never expires. I could… Read more »
@zdr “Get good at sales.” File under Life advice. Good for business for sure, but so much more. Sales = Game. Like language, best to force that in as early as possible. Worthless anecdote. When in social company of a hot woman/en and polite conversation ensues, soon enough they mention their man (they always do). My favorite question is: “What kind of sales is he in?” Skip right over the actual field or what he “does”. I’d say 50% I was dead-on and the other 50% were successful in sales-driven fields like law or finance. Once in a while it… Read more »
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Buddy_christ.jpg
(hopefully this works)
@Sun Wukong
I’ve found good attitude, but..
1) They’re taken, or.
2) They’re tragically naive.
Stringsofcoins – “You really need to move out of the south. Colorado has the largest amount of thin women. Then Utah. Try moving out west.”
Colorado? There’s a reason they call it Menver. Perhaps Fort Collins would be OK if earthy hippie chicks are your thing.
And Utah has it’s own unique issues, but those Mormon gals are sure nice to look at, and friendly enough.
But yeah the South, especially the rural south had a fried food problem. Out west is OK but for the six months of winter. Nine months where I live.
@Jeremy
While I didn’t note it in that statement, I would figure “I can get someone else” would be implicit in it as well. Either way, marriage removes the threat of abandonment for someone else or just for the sake of abandoning a bad situation. Both are stronger tools of Dread than the explicit statement by marriage that abandonment isn’t on the table except as a last, very desperate resort that will hurt me as badly or worse than her.
Perhaps any modern wedding vows should include…
“Till interest from someone better do us part.”
@Jeremy, yes replacement but the implicit *abandonment* is the key aspect, I think.
Polygyny works most against Hypergamy when the woman gets cut off from Mr. Big Bigger Biggest.
@ jf12
Re: deep solemn reasons to dismiss
Sure if there was actual intent on my part. My intent was to be the rejector for once. And my max height rule is strictly enforced at all times.
Though you provoke an interesting idea; fake rejection game. Might be a bit over wrought…hmmm..?
@Jeremy 1) They’re taken That does not stop me. I’m of the mind that thanks to the obesity and single mother epidemics, less than 5% of the female population are of HB6 or better quality. For the single guy what that means is this: to meet attractive women you must get over your objections to poaching. You must poach. Try to avoid poaching from marriages (it’s just messy), never poach from your friends, but do not avoid poaching girlfriends of dudes outside your circle of friends. You MUST poach when the SMP is this fucked. You have no option. Every… Read more »
@Badpainter: Oh, sure we can learn game and get laid. So fucking what? We can just as easily rent it. It is the actual true feminine desire beyond plates, and one night stands we can never get because we are truly and forever inadequate. Women want the rock, game allows men to become the steel reinforced concrete facsimile of the rock. Same functionality but like an industrial diamond it’s not genuine but manufactured. And all know how women feel about fake diamonds. That right there, ladies and gentlemen, is poetry only a man who has consumed the entirety of the… Read more »
I poach women. Now that I plate them on purpose and they know that they are plates they all have boyfriends “on the side”. One has a fiance. They are BB for them. I have spoken in depth with two plates about their BB. They do not particularly enjoy sex with them and both of them are afraid that their BB will figure this out. One of them feels quite badly for her boyfriend. A few weeks ago she apologized to me for fucking him. They have both tried to branch swing to me. I do encourage them to give… Read more »
Jesus Christ, I’m a casualty – and thanks JF12 for making clear that there is no there there. Fuck, wow. That’s just bleak, I guess the central aspect of the Red Pill for me is cold, clearheaded honesty and I’m finally down to it. I live in a society that is devolving and convulsing socially, and a nation in decline. There really was a sexual revolution – I just didn’t realize that I’d been overrun. I’ve been reading about memetics and how conscious the prog-marxists are about creating and affecting and leveraging the “memeplex”, the collection of cultural ideas we… Read more »
@Sun Wukong Try to avoid poaching from marriages (it’s just messy), never poach from your friends, but do not avoid poaching girlfriends of dudes outside your circle of friends. The ones I know are married to friends of mine, so that’s right out. Oh man if I could meet one of these that’s attractive… I don’t find naive women attractive for LTRs. Maybe I’m mentally defective but if she comes across as a child, it’s like I’m screwing a child. The one other non-naive and non-married woman I met who had a decent attitude was out-of-shape, and very religious to… Read more »
re: attitude. A recent little anecdote, and longer-term readers will note a change. Growth, men would say. Devolution, women would say. I was hanging with the gals again as the token male, but over the past year I have become less interactive, much less supportive, and often snappier. Over lunch they were discussing an aunt they all know who has been taking care of her extremely disabled husband (Alzheimer’s) for several years. They finally got home health, and she’s been using her free time to … reconnect with old boyfriends, all married, on social media. “You go, girl” of course… Read more »
@Badpainter,
Colorado Springs is good. College town as well. There are always college girls looking for the older man fantasy. It’s not the best place to live culturally but the SMP is better for men.
@ Jeremy I’ve found good attitude, but.. 1) They’re taken, or. 2) They’re tragically naive. When I met my wife she was 18. I remember saying hello and shaking her hand. I sized her up within a minute. She was smart, friendly, had a good energy and an odd, nerdy laugh. She looked something like Sherilyn Fenn. http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31000000/sherilyn-fenn-sherilyn-fenn-31049173-440-600.jpg BOOM! There was nothing to say no to. I wanted her! A couple of months later we were dating and the rest is history. Just like real estate I think the good one’s sell fast. My wife was off the market at… Read more »
@Glenn You are absolutely right that if a woman is truly hot, there is nothing you can do, absent actual physical threats/restraint, to prevent her from eventually moving on to the next tingle-inducer. There are just way too many opportunities and too little consequences. It’s interesting that this is one element of red pill reality that I almost never see the manosphere discussing: a woman’s odds of cheating/leaving you are directly and almost solely related to how hot she is. It seems to be the one bitter reality they can’t face…that you not only CAN’T have a beautiful innocent angel,… Read more »
@jf,
Bosley does seem like a good investment for a balding man.
@jf… LOL The hypocrisy is hilarious.
@Kryptokate, So you are saying that women are unable to control themselves and are ruled by their vaginas? When I was married I turned down a free blowjob from a very hot woman. Though women do not know how to run female game anymore. Are you saying that if a hot man runs game on you that you no longer are capable of making your own choices? You just must fuck him? Perhaps we should go back to putting restraints on women. If you were going to be stoned to death in the street for cheating do you think your… Read more »
@Krypt, nah, you’re 99.9999% probably nowhere near as relatively hot as you think. Guys lust after most women. Most. Most women can cheat, and statistically do cheat as easily as the most attractive women; the ONLY difference is that the attractive women can cheat with higher quality men.
BTW I do agree that hotter women can be as easy or easier to pick up.
It really is interesting/funny how women complain about being treated as sex objects, while themselves behaving as sex objects. This contradiction is entirely lost on just about every woman. The behavioral conflict is only blatant in the most attractive ones. If you don’t want to be a sex object, ladies, then behave like a person and resist your biology enough to honor your vows like an adult would. You see, people (sentient human beings) make commitments and honor their vows. Animals jump ship and find a new alpha when their biology tells them to. Cheating on your less-than-alpha-tingles SO, and… Read more »
@Glenn – I know why now – they are all, always looking for a better fucking deal. GWDT – think about that next time you doll yourself up when you head out to the grocery store or with the girls or something. Why would you care about being pretty at all in public not with your husband? In fact, why wouldn’t you actually dress down and make yourself dowdy to not attract men? I see your pics, went to your blog – you are cute. I bet you preen it around all the time, even if it’s just for the… Read more »
Also I agree that “REALLY aggressively” works miraculously well. Sexualize instantly, escalate instantly.
re: “I’ve done the kindest thing I could think for him and sent him here so I don’t think that classifies as anything bad.”
I agree, for one.
re: “I would assume most attractive women have beta orbiters.”
Only if the women let them. Married women should not permit orbiters; nice is what husbands should get, NOT other men.
@ Stringsofcoins
College towns are great. Especially if they are relatively isolated from large cities. Here in dirt the SMP skews younger, and the open market in the over 30 group quite small. I was shocked when I returned here by the amount of IOIs I get from undergrads. It’s a target rich environment when 1/3 of the women are both single and in the 19-26 age range.
@ All – Just read what GWDT writes. First off, she gives no defense of prancing around looking “hot” other than it makes her feel good. Tell us, GWDT, why do you think this makes you feel good? Could it be that you enjoy lording your sexual attractiveness around because of the attention you get and the status you receive? It;s painfully clear why you do this. And of course you want to look good when with your husband – but when he’s not around? Admit it, you enjoy being seen as hot, and you really don’t care if it… Read more »
Yes I realize that men try to bang lots of women. The difference is that if you are an extremely hot woman, they don’t just try to bang you, they try to marry you. There is zero chance of being pumped and dumped, so it isn’t even a fear for a hot woman. Men always love you more after they screw you then they did before, because it wasn’t just the sex they were after, it was the increase in status that they knew they would get if they could land you. I have never slept with a man who… Read more »
Kryptokate – “…they don’t just try to bang you, they try to marry you. There is zero chance of being pumped and dumped, so it isn’t even a fear for a hot woman. Men always love you more after they screw you then they did before, because it wasn’t just the sex they were after,…” Wait! Does this mean hot chicks actually participate in sex? That it isn’t a game of kinky mortician and cadaver role play? Holly shit! Good advice here: pump and dump the hot ones as there’s no other utility to them, and they’re all cheaters anyway.… Read more »
re: “I have never slept with a man who didn’t try to marry me.”
I have never slept with a woman I hadn’t tried to marry. (Without getting into too much quibbling about what “is” is)
re: “A gorgeous 20 year old who has slept with 30 guys has also turned down 3,000 guys.”
The N that’s truly important to women is her turning down men. All predicted by sexual conflict.
re: “It isn’t rocket science and it actually entertains me that anyone would think this isn’t true.”
It almost entertains me that you think you’re different.
P.S. I am not making these statements and then turning around saying “don’t objectify women.” I would never say something so ridiculous. There’s no such thing as objectification in the first place. I am telling you the truth here, I am not advancing an agenda. The women who say “don’t objectify women” are not me, so please don’t make an argument about hypocrisy. Also, I’m not really sure why any of you would react with hostility to my comments — I’m revealing the dirty truth behind the curtain to you. You all complain about how truths are kept from men… Read more »
Woman says it’s easy for her to get laid. Film at 11.
I guess expecting hot married womenz to not screw the new hot boss is just asking to much from them. It’s not their fault! Don’t you see? Their vaginas got tingly! Lol.
I guess every time I get a boner I must cheat on my wife! It’s just biology. You can’t really blame me for it.
re: hostility
Babe, maybe you WOULD like me when I’m angry …
@Glenn And we both know the guy on Facebook isn’t the only orbiter that you’ve got. Nice that you don’t shut him down though, isn’t it? Why didn’t you just unfriend or block him? And why show it to your husband – what is this, digital cuckoldery? And then you tell us about it and how you and your husband mock him? This is supposed to convince me of exactly what about you? Glenn, it’s supposed to demonstrate that she’s super hot to you. Don’t you realize she’s selling you another beta orbiter spot that she’s got available? Act fast… Read more »
@Kate, If you are unable to control your vagina you could take steps to make yourself unavailable. Like not dressing up when you are not with your husband. Or shutting men down when they try to get close to you. Believe it or not some married women do shut you down immediately when you try to game them. Though they do appear fairly lonely. Can’t have male attention anymore and we all know women make terrible friends. Best to have kids to dote on. Though you probably shouldn’t have kids. You will inevitably destroy their family as you can’t keep… Read more »
Maybe if the orbiter really is a stalker then if she mentions her commenting here on her site than he will think less of her and, wait, I’m confusing myself.
@JF12 – I’m not sure how to reconcile the data you cited. I don’t doubt it but I think that KryptoKate is right about the sheer volume of opportunities a beautiful women gets. I happen to have dated several 9/10 type women after my marriage. I remember roller blading with one up in Toronto, on the lakefrong and the looks we got all day. Guys were like astonished by her. And several guys would try and talk to her with me right there, she never entertained them and I AMOGed them off, but it’s like swatting flies in the right… Read more »