I’ve been watching Outlaw King on Netflix recently. There’s a part where the wife of Robert the Bruce says ‘Power is making decisions, and whatever course you are charting, I choose you, my husband’ It struck me that my own wife had said almost these same words to me in 2005. When I’d decided to take a job in Orlando that would uproot us from family and friends. There was no “,…but what about my friends, career, etc.?” from her and I had no hesitation to consider anything but taking the position. She said, “You are my husband, I go where you go.”
How many men hold a default Frame in their marriage? Many women are reluctant to even accept their husband’s last name today. There’s a lot of bullshit reasons for this, but the core truth is that women have no confidence in their man in the long term. They don’t trust his ‘course’. There’s holding Frame, and then there’s establishing a long term Frame, a paradigm, a reality of his own, that defines a man’s authority in his marriage and family relationships. Women today still want marriage, but few want to defer to their husband’s ‘course’. They don’t trust him with her life.
And why would they? For the past four or five generations men have been portrayed in popular culture as untrustworthy. Either they are Beta buffoons in need of women’s uniquely female ‘reasoning’ (which is really male reasoning with breasts) to save them from themselves, or they’re malicious Alpha malcontents (or perverts) also in need of female correction to bring them to female approved justice. It’s the retribution fantasy of feminism played out in popular media, but the societal result is generations of women who have no inherent respect of men and even less trust in any beneficial course they might plot out for them as future wives.
There’s also the male perspective to consider in this. Most men approach their marriage and long term relationships from what is ostensibly an egalitarian perspective. “Equality”, playing fair, being an “equal partner” a pretense of egalitarianism, is all a cover story for a power dynamic that is truly based on resource dynamics. In a ‘modern marriage’, male authority, even just the idea of it, is ceded by default to the woman. I’ll explain why in a moment.
Today’s marriage stats and the socioeconomic variables within marriage point to a very cold truth; if you make less money than your wife, statistically, your marriage is far more likely to dissolve. In couples where a woman outearns her husband divorce rates increase. Virtually every article written about this power dynamic attempts to paint the men involved as ‘feeling threatened‘ by their wives’ success, but the visceral truth can be distilled through the process of women’s Hypergamy. As you might guess, our feminine-centric social order can never allow for an unflattering picture of women, thus men must look like ridiculous, insecure, man-babies – this is another piece of the puzzle – but the stats don’t lie, only the reasoning for them misleads us culturally.
In an “egalitarian” marriage it is actually financial considerations that imbalance that idealistic fantasy of a “coequal partnership”. Men and masculinity are made to look ridiculous, insecure, potentially violent and incompetent on a social scale. This effort to delegitimize anything male has been going on since the late 1960s. The social impact of this has resulted in several generations whose default impression of men in general is one of distrust. Either distrust based in men’s potential for abusiveness, or largely more a distrust based in a default presumption of incompetence. Women cannot trust a man with her life because a majority of men are ridiculous buffoons, no better than big children and now we add that almost 40% of them are outearned by their wives.
Is it any wonder women have no default respect for a man’s course for their lives? In fact, given these modern circumstances, fantasies of an egalitarian marriage being the ideal notion are really the only way to justify marriage at all for women. Thus, we’ve crafted a new ideal of marriage that furnishes women with legal and social failsafes to make what looks like a really horrible, life-long attachment to a buffoon or an abuser just palatable enough to have women believe things might work out for them. Don’t worry ladies, the egalitarian ideal, that any potential husband worth your consideration will subscribe to wholesale, provides you not only with options that will absolve you of all responsibility for his (and your own) failures, but you’ll never have to really do anything he says. The law is on your side, and the very premise of an egalitarian marriage frees you from ever having to go along with one of his half-baked life plans for the both of you. In fact, as long as you make more money than him, you’ll almost surely be doing the ‘course’ setting for the both of you.
Needless to say this is not conducive to women entertaining a default deference to men’s authority. If women’s baseline impression of men is one of incompetence, ridiculousness and distrust, and then you combine it with the fact that over a third of them wont be earning the same financially we begin to see the reasons for the decline in marriage today. If the default perception of men is one of expected incompetence, why would a woman ever want to get married?
This is kind of a quandary. In marriage, a man’s authority today only extends to this monetary wealth – there is no inherent authority associated with being male despite what feminist bleat about ‘male privilege’. Wealth enforces will, but women still seek to find ways around accepting that authority by assuming control of that wealth. This is one reason why “financial abuse” has been fashioned into a form of spousal abuse, but there are many other means of emotional control that mitigates male authority-by-wealth.
Even when a man is the primary breadwinner his means to authority in his marriage is still mitigated. A man’s provisioning for his wife and family has always been considered a ‘manly duty’. Even the most masculinity-confused, Vichy Males are still conditioned to assume providership as a masculine trait that is ‘non-toxic’ and approved by their teachers. In most Trad-Con thought a man isn’t even to be considered a “man” unless he can prove his competence in generating more resources than he needs for himself. The direction of every aspiration he has must be applied to providing for a future wife, their children, likely their (her) extended family and then extended to society. By the old set of books a man can’t even be given the title of “man” (or “a real man”) unless he can prove he’s prepared himself to be a good husband, father and community leader.
While there’s nothing inherently wrong with a strong desire to fulfill this provisioning agenda, the men who do accept this as their “manly duty” are conditioned to only see their sacrifices as their expected responsibility. They are actively discouraged from ever assuming any authority might be forthcoming in exchange for their sacrifices. Not even a man’s wealth is a guarantee of authority; certainly not if he’s been conditioned to believe that an egalitarian marriage is an ideal, much less a possibility.
And now we come full circle – the promulgation of an egalitarian ideal in marriage, in gender equity, in the retribution and restitution that feminism is based on, all of this and more has the latent purpose of stripping men of any concept of authority, while enforcing the ideal of male responsibility. In The Second Set of Books I made the case that most (Beta) men today live by, or would like to live by, an old social contract that on the surface seems noble. They believe in an anachronism that promises them that honor, duty, chivalry and a default respect of women will, sooner or later, be appreciated by a woman with the “quality” enough to appreciate it and show that appreciation by accepting him for her intimate attentions. Only later do they come to realize that their dedication to that anachronism is misplaced and the exchange of duty for authority is not only erased, but he’s perceived as a “toxic” monster or a ridiculous “macho” fool for ever expecting that exchange. The world is actually playing by a second set of books that expects all of his ‘honor-bound’ beliefs are his responsibility, but nothing he sacrifices grants him any authority.
Last week I hosted a Special Edition of the Red Man Group in which we discussed whether a married man today is by default Blue Pill or Beta.
It’s almost impossible to broach this topic without accusations of bias or personal circumstance coloring a man’s perspective of marriage – and that’s from either side of the topic. I wasn’t endorsing marriage in this; if anything I made a case against marriage based on the same questioning of men’s authority I’ve explored in this essay. By today’s standards, marriage is far too dicey a prospect for me to ever advocate for. But how far are we willing to take this abandoning of dominance hierarchies in intersexual relationships? I recently got into a debate as to whether monogamous relationships – outside formal marriage – were even beneficial for men today. In that discussion we dissected the history of monogamy and in human relations it’s at least somewhat accepted that monogamy and two-parent investment in offspring was a dynamic that’s been beneficial to our own and some other species. I think that in the past, when social circumstance was different, the concept of monogamy and the institution of marriage were instrumental in our advancement and largely beneficial. All that’s changed now and much of the second set of books I referred to in this essay is predicated on an egalitarianism that has erased male authority and placed it on the shoulders of women who are ill-equipped (and honestly not wanting) to use that authority.
This last sentence here is going to seem like heresy to those invested in blank-slate, egalitarian equalism and fempowerment, but the truth is evident and unignorable that an evolved patriarchal authority has progressed us to an age where we’ve become prosperous enough to entertain thoughts of abandoning it. Stripping men of authority while still expecting a default, and total, responsibility is a really good summation of the two sets of books – the conflict between the old and the new social contract. And yes, I’m aware of the all the arguments that this state of disempowering men is by some political design. Destabilizing the family starts with delegitimizing male authority and confusing generations of men about the aspects of masculinity. Doubt and self-loathing are key in men policing other men for presumptions of authority. It’s crabs in the bucket – when one man presumes authority there need to be ten more to pull him back down into confusion and doubt.
So where do we go with this from here? Even the most ‘Con’ of Trad-Con women will still default to their fempowerment conditioning when presented with a default male authority they are supposed to follow. Can a man be a leader in his own home anymore? MGTOWs will tell you no, and they’d be right. You can’t out-Alpha the state. But the state is still comprised of men and women with their own preconceptions and belief-sets. Our evolved firmware still predisposes us to conventional gender roles, and that predisposition is also one of women expecting male competence, decisiveness and dominance. Women still want a man to follow in spite of their conditioning to distrust men’s competence. Maybe a new form of monogamy is in order. Egalitarianism is a dead end, it only defaults to 100% female authority and 100% male responsibility. But perhaps at some point, when things get so bad that women are forced to take a chance on the men they think are potential buffoons and abusers, a new kind of “marriage” can come out of the morass that egalitarianism has made of marriage.
How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband? I would like to believe I have this with my wife today, but I know that this is tenuous from the perspective of true, actionable authority. I once came down hard on a pastor who was advising the women of his congregation to “allow” their husbands to lead them. He was basically asking the women to stand down and trust God that their husbands we’re actually worthy of their trust. He didn’t know it, but his entire premise stemmed from women already acknowledging that they had ultimate authority over their husband as a given. Most pastors are pussy-whipped, so this default authority is usually presumed as a sexual threat-point women will exercise over their husbands. What he didn’t understand was that women’s authority is his default for a much deeper, more socially expansive reason. So even to ask women to allow their husbands to exercise ‘headship’ is ludicrous – it’s something even those women have no power to do because the presumption of authority is always in their favor. They can’t allow their men authority over them because the social paradigm they live in wont allow them to allow it.
Basically we are all fucked – the deck is stacked against you – you can sit down and play but the house always wins.
Only those with level 95+/100 frame control practiced over time with long term partners should even consider taking the chance.
The rest are cannon fodder – doomed to fail or suffer for years in a sexless joyless marriage.
Good times – I feel sorry for my 16yr old son
S Mackenzie Basically we are all fucked – the deck is stacked against you – you can sit down and play but the house always wins. Make yourself the house. Only those with level 95+/100 frame control practiced over time with long term partners should even consider taking the chance. Move toward being a 5%er. The rest are cannon fodder – doomed to fail or suffer for years in a sexless joyless marriage. The “rest” are not where you want to be. Don’t get married is a red pill axiom. For the already married, there is Married Red Pill. And… Read more »
“Beliefs are tied to identity. Governing beliefs, which form the basis for other beliefs, are the most difficult to change, because they are tied to personal identity and feelings of self-worth. You can’t change your governing beliefs without changing yourself.” –Dave Gray, liminal thinking, the sixth principle
Another axiom of Red Pill. When you don’t feel release from constraint? When you are governed by governing beliefs? Change yourself. Put your oxygen mask on you first.
Don’t attach importance to the fact that the oxygen masks might not contain oxygen, and are really just there to muffle your screams.
honor, duty, honesty? why do men insist on being honest, loyal, honorable, dutiful, truthful, etc to women? save those things for dealing with men. with women, take your gloves off and stop trying to be ‘honest abe’ to creatures that will lie, deceive, manipulate and flake on you in a heartbeat. THEY DON’T PLAY BY THE SAME RULES! and they will never play by men’s rules bc they don’t know loyalty etc and don’t give two shits abt honesty. their feelings come before the truth. i will play by their rules. idgaf. they do anything to protect their feelings; i… Read more »
“Good times – I feel sorry for my 16yr old son”
O.k. no snark here. Why say such? I’ve boys too within your sons age too.
I came by this by way of Rollo’s Twitter feed referencing this: https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/1068355840636157952 You are a man. You are the only creature on this planet fit to accomplish anything of worth. And because of that, the rest of the world will always try to twist your mind, or twist your arm; to force you, by deception or by threat of imprisonment, to accomplish their goals instead of your own. Learn to recognize when this is happening, and take back control of your life, so you can do the things that YOU want to do. -HumanSockPuppet It’s only rational. It’s only… Read more »
Great topic, insightful questions and a triumphant return for Rollo to the core of gender sexual dynamics. This is after spendig (in my opinion) far too much time fretting over the feminatzi influence on society.
This article is a very good discussion and analysis of the current state of LTRs, marriage and family formation. Been thinking about this for years, after a marriage, two kids, “I am not happy” divorce rape by BPC wife, and now freedom at three fourths of a century old. I paid my dues, I filed, and I walked. Efforts to destroy my autonomy began early in the marriage. Never seeing family life as equal or egalitarian, she was always one oil change away from a disaster, I picked up my marbles. How does a team play on a field where… Read more »
I’m just under a year in with a low drama still very attractive and feminine girl, zero tattoos very strong farther figure, 11 years younger and no kids the only cloud on the horizon is the dynamic Rollo outlines in this essay. She outearns me 2:1 actually more like 3:1 after she receives her annual performance bonus! ( sales manager in the beauty industry) . Her friend group totally outclasses mine too as my friends are mainly old friends from schooldays or guys I’ve met through my job ( construction trade) while hers are mainly super successful business people (… Read more »
But one swallow does not a summer make! 😬
Along with “wife-outearns husband” you’ve probably got more households now where the financial seesaw swings sharply up and down. Might be harder for the captain to keep his hands on the wheel while the deck is wildly heaving to and fro.
In my own home you could divide each of our adult lives into four distinct career quarters, with the score bouncing back and forth like that 54-51 Chiefs-Chargers game. Whoever’s on top, don’t do some in-your-face end-zone dance — just quietly hand the ball to the ref.
There is a new movie #Female Pleasure
A documentary of female sexual repression
“How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband?” 1; Always keep in mind that everything she says and does is a game,with the intention of taking full advantage of the male. 2;Learn that when she is acting and doing right this is when she wants something,this includes her proclamations of love. 3; Understand the effects of the media brainwashing that has been catered to her and learn to take advantage of the default thought process. 4;Always cover your own ass first while using her go girl ego to your… Read more »
3) … learn to take advantage of the default thought process.
5) Put her out there in front of the brand
Interesting … Could you flesh these out a little more?
“How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband?” O.B.I.T. @ boulderhead 3) … learn to take advantage of the default thought process. 5) Put her out there in front of the brand Interesting … Could you flesh these out a little more? What is the media induced default though process? “She can do anything you can do maybe even better” is the most common misconception. Largely and “egalitarian” ruse. Take advantage of this, let her do the dirty work she will come to you when things don’t work ,play… Read more »
St Andrew feast day.
Some peculiar marriage-related superstitions have attached themselves to Saint Andrew’s feast day.
• An old German tradition says that single women who wish to marry should ask for Saint Andrew’s help on the eve of his feast, then sleep naked that night; they will see their future husbands in their dreams.
They can’t allow their men authority over them because the social paradigm they live in wont allow them to allow it.
This is great. Catch 22.
Her earning more than you only matters if you are trying to keep her with beta bucks. Be her alpha fuck, and you’re good to go.
“In marriage, a man’s authority today only extends to this monetary wealth – there is no inherent authority associated with being male despite what feminist bleat about ‘male privilege’. Wealth enforces will, but women still seek to find ways around accepting that authority by assuming control of that wealth.” TPTB are good at redistribution. Try not paying child support. A civil offence (not paying a bill) becomes a crime (contempt of court) by court fiat. It must be this way as non-economic social manipulation isn’t their expertise. They are limited into economic carrots and sticks with a veneer of “It’s… Read more »
Playdontpay “Let’s just say it can be challenging to maintain that Alpha leader role in the relationship when the financial balance of power is so skewed. If I don’t change my situation soon then I just see everything going to shit after the NRE period is over.” The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behavior which makes the original false conception come true. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right… Read more »
Blog update: Working on a new WordPress theme that actually scales this time. I’m gonna go with this comment plug in assuming I can figure out how to move the insertion field to the bottom of the comments. And I’m going to initiate a small users’ forum to replace the field reports page. Don’t worry, I’ll migrate all the comments over.
Any other suggestions?
“Any other suggestions?” Keep up the good work. And, Oh Yeah, make an occasional comment on your blog in comments section or new forum section . We all know you are busy, and it would be a pleasure to hear your opinions here on comments that are made. Will the new forum have a direct or private message system? As a venue for men who resonate with each other to come together privately as a fight club type of network. Some of us have a network of red pilled men in real life and I think that it would be… Read more »
“Any other suggestions?”
Still trying to edit my own comments after posting,probably a bad idea for those goal post movers (you know who you are) , some things need changed and hindsight is 20/20.
Think of those suggestions as a form of gender Judo,using her own momentum to overcome her control.
@Rollo Blog update: Working on a new WordPress theme that actually scales this time. I’m gonna go with this comment plug in assuming I can figure out how to move the insertion field to the bottom of the comments. And I’m going to initiate a small users’ forum to replace the field reports page. Don’t worry, I’ll migrate all the comments over. i vote to keep this format, even if you can’t figure out how to move the insertion field… but still try bc it is kind of annoying…lol… but overall, i think this is a better format/theme… and having… Read more »
Hah!!!! We are indeed fucked however…….as I sit here 4 years post-divorce from wife number two, in my own house, and with another business, I know for a fact that I will never return to that “life” that caused me to zero out in a really bad way. All my adult life I thought I was the provisioner and protector within my marriages and was proven oh-so-wrong. Both times, the women ejected when I was weak. Both times I didn’t understand and was so butt hurt. I understand now and will never place myself in that position again. I really… Read more »
“How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband?” This is the crux of the matter, the healthy woman must submit willingly 100% to a man in all areas of life. The man then is free to delegate authority back to her in certain areas depending on her temperament/judgement so a complementary balance can be achieved. Sounds simple but you must be a fairly competent male individual in order for a healthy woman to willingly cede authority. This is tricky because the world is complex, it’s not simply hunting anymore.… Read more »
“In order to get competent in these areas it takes incredibly hard work and determination, something that is not present in most males today, it’s a catch-22, some type of negative feedback cycle was started at some point and you have to try like hell to get out of it(unplug), it’s become a chicken and egg type scenario. It’s easy to say man up to all these soy/soft guys but what if they have never even seen or been part of a true male tribe/group? They have no real life references to what manning up even is. It’s not about… Read more »
Here was an excellent old essay from Ian Ironwood. (anyone know where he went?) http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2014/06/aunt-giggles-doesnt-get-it-red-pill-is.html Excerpt: ….Thanks to the destructive nature of feminism on femininity in the West, there are actually huge numbers of women who are miserable and unhappy with their lives and eager for any chance at a stable relationship. They write to me constantly, wondering where they can find a Red Pill man. Pursuing an unfulfilling relationship is not part of the Red Pill. Pursuing quality women is. The Red Pill teaches men that women are fungible, and if one doesn’t work out, well, there are a… Read more »
@SJF That essay is feel good bullshit and blue/purple pill as fuck. Don’t know where to start… “Thanks to the destructive nature of feminism…” Feminism has become the bogeyman of the manosphere. It is utilised in the same way the feminists use the word Patriachy …in a manner that doesn’t explain anything and impedes critical thinking. It’s just a tool for women to achieve their subconscious and irrational desires which you cannot negotiate precisely because they are biologically determined. “huge numbers of women who are miserable and unhappy ” Many men in the sphere bring out their suppressed inner White… Read more »
“That essay is feel good bullshit and blue/purple pill as fuck.”
Not hardly, you must not have read it in context.
“Many men in the sphere bring out their suppressed inner White Knight by caring so much about the well being of women and their happiness…” I’m not going to speak for SJF, but you’re off the mark a bit. Check it out: Her happiness isn’t at issue, but it is more of a symptom that he’s getting the dynamic and acting on it in a way that benefits him first, her somewhere downstream. She will only be happy when he is leading her and sometimes that means leading her out of her foul moods, bitchiness, blah, blah. That’s uncomfortable for… Read more »
“You can’t out-Alpha the state.”
On what metric?
Women will crawl through glass for that special dickhead.
Women see the state as pure distilled beta.
Why would you like to know me better? Focus on the message and the argument …not the messenger.
Hey, that Edit button disappears after like 15 minutes. I was wanting to go back an edit all my comments from three years ago… The Red Pill does not let guys “off the hook”, in part because yes, Virginia, there are a lot of batshitcrazy/attention-whoring/frivorce-happy/hypergamous/outrageously-entitled females out there (count the number of “selfies” on any given young woman’s FB page for details), but also in part because the Red Pill does not “blame” women for anything. While it may blame feminism (itself a disturbing and increasingly misandrous ideology), in its purest form it accepts women for what they are and… Read more »
As a man who has nothing to hide, no one to impress, not even himself, can be trusted to be arguing in good faith.
There’s a lot more to conversation than posturing, you know?
“Quality women is a defense mechanism for purple pilled men to shield and delude themselves against the brutality of hypergamy and AWALT.”
A quality woman is one that you don’t have to physically beat into submission. This doesn’t mean she isn’t an alpha widow only that she hasn’t been imprinted in an abusive manner.
One add on, and forgive me if I’m stating the obvious. If a man doesn’t assume and exercise authority from the start, his wife “granting” it to him for the implied reason of improving the marriage, comes across (to me at least) as negotiated desire.
“brutality of hypergamy and AWALT”
I read the above and try to understand where you’re coming from, because:
“brutality of hypergamy” is akin to “brutality of getting up in the morning”. Some guys can handle neither. It’s too dramatic for anyone who’s popped their cherry. So, rather than make assumptions about your complete lack of understanding and rail on your probable self-indulgent incel bullshittery, I’d give you a chance to introduce yourself.
@EhIntellect are you married? Would be brutal for the deluded beta bux to wake up one morning and someone whisper in his ear that his Quality wife/Oneitis was fucked in the ass last night by a guy she met on facebook. I have already dated a couple of such married women which cemented my anti-marriage stance long before finding about the red pill. One such woman told me what she finds so arousing about it is the act of cheating itself. Cuckoldry felt dangerous and exciting for her. The irony is that the husband will go calling other men incels… Read more »
You gotta be fucking kidding me, right?
Nah his wife’s too old. he don’t gotta worry about any of that shit happening to him….unless someone really wanted to fuck with him
No kidding and basement dwelling bro.
I even felt bad for their husbands and these women would proclaim that they still love their husbands despite the treachery.
“No kidding and basement dwelling bro.”
Sounds like Orson’s possessed by j’s voice box.
“You gotta be fucking kidding me, right?”
These guys are frauds. They comment the same, all dodge and nervous about writing anything substantial.
Blaximus ,do you still have your job?
I’ve been giving this issue some thought, and I think it’s getting ready to hatch.
“I’ve been giving this issue some thought, and I think it’s getting ready to hatch.”
Intersting NG article,what do you think of this?
“Earthquakes and Volcanos
As a further complication in a Grand Solar Minimum, cosmic rays that make it to Earth and enter the surface, can trigger earthquakes and volcanoes and other tectonic anomalies. The penetrating particles (cosmic ray muons) from space decrease the viscosity of silica-rich magma. See: “Explosive volcanic eruptions triggered by cosmic rays: Volcano as a bubble chamber.”
Sounds like an end-of-world scenario.
And I just got a new car loan…
Orson is just really clueless about Game. And he has dug his heels in and refuses to change his mind.
“You can’t out-Alpha the state.”
See, this is just wrong. You can’t out-beta the state and you can’t out White Knight the state. But the state has zero game and is Blue Pill, so calling it ‘alpha’ is just wrong.
Quality women is a defense mechanism for purple pilled men to shield and delude themselves against the brutality of hypergamy and AWALT.
If women have no agency, then they cannot be trained and this statement is true. Otherwise, not so much. No one here denies that all women are wired for hypergamy.
I’ll take Shakespeare over Orson and even Rollo any day. Old Will was Red Pill long before the interwebz.
i kind of miss a way to reference a specific post by time/commenter (or link) but it could just be operator error…lol…
Seconded. There’s no way to extract a URL from an individual comment so far as I can tell; It isn’t operator error.
The only way I see things possibly changing on a societal level is if a good percent (maybe 15%+)
of men refusee to marry, especially if a number of these include high SMV men. This will cause epiphany age women to lose their minds. Maybe this could start a domino effect of men refusing to marry and would lead to even 20-something women changing to avoid what they see happening to their older spinster sisters.
A huge unspoken part of ” the problem “, is that there are fewer and fewer High SMV men around with each passing generation. SMV becomes strictly subjective and no longer real. Hence the fuckery and confusion when a man possessing truly high SMV shows up on the scene and steals all the pussy he wants. Gnashing of teeth follows. SMV isn’t about provision or any of that shit, lol, so today men don’t really understand what it is. Not understanding prevents possessing. Faking it in a club or bar or wherever, isn’t the same thing. Male Authority. The notion… Read more »
Eric The only way I see things possibly changing on a societal level is if a good percent (maybe 15%+) of men refusee to marry, especially if a number of these include high SMV men. From time to time there’s an article from a post Wall woman in some publication or other based in the Acela corrider wailing about “the good men, where are they now?”. This is partly due to very, very tiny shifts in the availability of men at the margins. A larger shift is already happening. But: history tells me that women can share a man, and… Read more »
A huge unspoken part of ” the problem “, is that there are fewer and fewer High SMV men around with each passing generation.
Allowing women to become their own Betas has created a glass floor under them, but their hypergamy remains unchanged.
SMV becomes strictly subjective and no longer real.
SMV has always been subjective as well as situational.
Elevating women while pushing men down is making both sexes miserable, but men are perhaps better able to bear up than women. Hence the number of women over 40 taking SSRI drugs for their depression/anxiety/”problem-with-no-name”.
From the deepest, darkest recesses of the Internet, some men who have a different interpretation of Independent Woman:
AR I guess what I’m trying to say re SMV is that a grown man with ‘ high ‘ SMV can’t be a know nothing, do nothing dullard that can’t assemble sentences in conversation, and sees women as gifts worthy of praise and a gold plated pedestal. But women adapt and are fluid, so if they consistently run into these kinds of men, some with money, others with none, they will mentally compare loser #1 to lower #2 to figure out who’s the better deal. What of the moment. Good strategy to get laid right away, but awful life strategy… Read more »
Stop trying to feel my balls. I’m not Dwight Howard.
Fly Lord, aka Mansura Akter….
why do you have a male book handle, when you have a woman’s name?
The age for men to ” find themselves ” has now been pushed into the 30’s.
Yes. I’m sure that has been a trend for over a generation, too. There are lots of factors, from the feminized K – 12 Ritalin schools to helicopter mommies to unlimited connectivity etc.
But it is a fact. I don’t see any top-down curative, but I do see individuals who can be helped.
Men “finding themselves” has been effectively criminalized before 18. Going to sea as a cabin boy at 7, becoming a commissioned navel officer at 9 and taking a first command at 12 can’t be done today when you can’t even get a paper route until 14.
kfg Men “finding themselves” has been effectively criminalized before 18. Plus since “finding themselves” can lead to toxic masculinity, it must be tightly fenced / circumscribed in the years before 18. Hence men graduating from high school who have never had a job of work for money. Learning is always hard, learning at 20 things that should have been learned 8 years earlier harder still. The men in their 40’s, 50’s, older who are just now coming to the Red Pill / The Glasses should be able to empathize with 20 year olds who were saturated in the Blue Pill… Read more »
Some commenter or other back at the old Spearhead once sketched out a “Captain / first officer” model for married people where she earned more than he. It might have been Athol Kay, it might have been Ian Ironwood, it might have been someone else. But the gist of it was “I’m gonna captain the boat even if she’s catching most of the fish!”. I’ve known a very few married situations where the woman earned a lot, maybe most, of the income. One was a military officer, married to a man who was a tinkerer. He made money on the… Read more »
A woman outearning her ‘ man ‘ shouldn’t ever be a problem at all unless the man being outearned has only bought financial provisioning to the table in the first place. Money will always be an issue for many people/couples out in the wild, but there are some things that money just can’t buy ( not really….), And a masculine male that understands and embraced his masculine role in the world and in his relationship won’t be in danger from any high earning gal. But again, society at large says otherwise. Danger Will Robinson. In many.cases, ‘ money ‘ is… Read more »
Who’s the alpha, the ho or the pimp?
Lol. I typed antidote instead of anecdote.
@AR “a bit disappointing that nobody has even tried to point to the problem outlined in the OP: what to do when She outearns He” lol <Implying he wants an LTR in the first place I kinda dig the role reversal tbh. I think all my girls, past and present, outearn me (by a lot actually. lmao). And they know it too. But like it doesn’t seem to matter to them cause that’s not what they want from me. Earlier this year, while one of my former girls went to the bathroom, I stumbled upon this just laying on her… Read more »
<Implying he wants an LTR in the first place
“Whoosh!” or “Irony?”
Could be both.
One of the things men do is attempt to solve problems…
Blaximus With exceptions, most women don’t put money above feelz and admiration and luvs. No man should get involved in any long term way with the woman that believes that money makes her ‘ something ‘. Ok. Sure is a good thing that women never change. That they don’t carry around baggage from their childhood in the back of the head that isn’t even visible until triggered by life events such as “big promotion” or “birth of child” or “death of parent” or “laid off man”. Because if women were actually that complex, then a man might find himself marrying… Read more »
LOTM/Jack/LOTF…..I see a pattern.
j with his try-too-much-broski, yo!, non-descript sex god, I’m-crazy-so-any-of-you-faggots-fuck-with-my-shit-I-kill-ya posturing
Orson….oh Lord…I ask about his sexual hx and he touts primarily kucking as his reference experience and…..j is on that like kj suburban white on rice.
Now LOTM and his teenage handled, wanna be psycho grrr. Who will he spear next? Stay tuned.
I’m not used to this much shut-in, pubescent angst. No worries, Blax, I’m getting it now and slowly coming around to TRM’s cheeto-crumbed, ample-bellied, stridex-hoarding, youth brigade.
Me likey hyphens.
J My broader point/idea is that I have something money cannot buy ( easily) and its 100% real and non fiat and everlasting to the grave….so far. It’s not about what ‘ she wants from me ‘. You’re missing the angle totally bruv. Who I am and what she wants , doesn’t depend on her and doesn’t affect me. It ain’t all about the money lebowski, but something much deeper that overrides that shit. Problem is.a.lot of.men are conditioned to not see ‘ deeper ‘. That’s why they wind up in her frame. Whether a man wants an ltr or… Read more »
A R I get what you are saying 100%. I guess my blindspot arises from not having people in my life that have gone full chameleon on me. Sure, I’ve run across quite a few wishy washy tyoes, but once I got a good read on them, they were immediately excuse d from my life. I get that people not being ” solid ” or even standing for or believing in much is pretty standard nowadays, but this only means one must be more discerning. People are readable over time face to face. Most people just don’t bother or don’t… Read more »
When Jerks do the dishes, he’s already classified.
If she orders him and he complies, he’s beta. But that’s not what any here is advocating. There are manly chores and manly roles and a man can do some feminine chores if the woman is stretched thin. Typically only half of the quantity of chores that the woman normally does.
You young guys still don’t get it, probably because you’ve never seen it.
I like to cook when the mood strikes. I.also like to eat. 2 things I don’t care for is a kitchen sink/dishwasher with dirty dishes just hanging out, and a full clothes hamper. So when I want to, I’ll wash the dishes or do some laundry. I also did this when I lived solo. Nobody tells me to do these things nobody expects me to do these things. In fact, nobody else has anything to do with it when I do these things. Normally the unspoken rule ( subcoms yo! ) is that the outside and mechanical stuff is my… Read more »
I have no fucking clue what managing a husband is, or what menopause has to do with that.
Part of the masculine experience is taking chances/ facing adversity. Do you want safety at the expense of competence?, becomes an issue. You face adversity? What are you going to do about that? Adversity sharpens a man. From the OP: “Destabilizing the family starts with delegitimizing male authority and confusing generations of men about the aspects of masculinity. Doubt and self-loathing are key in men policing other men for presumptions of authority. It’s crabs in the bucket – when one man presumes authority there need to be ten more to pull him back down into confusion and doubt.” Outside influences… Read more »
Menopause is just another small hurdle in which to psychologically lubricate her. My 53.5 year old wife apologized, subcomm-wise, for having her period and having a tampon in place as she laid down to bed. So be it. There is always four days from now. And she is attractive/not unattractive and wants to fuck me. No Big Deal. Low hurdle. I Am Not So needy. I read that script on the internet and from people in real life. A learned life. It works. MRP wealth and health is learn-able.
“I have no fucking clue what managing a husband is, or what menopause has to do with that.”
“Get rid of her.”
She’s great. And I’m not making necessity a virtue.
The kids are grown. I got plenty of money. It’s not about the money.
We’er top 5%ers.
Red Pill and MRP game got me to where I want to be with and in relationship game.
I don’t feel constrained. And indeed I am not. I choose among the myriad possibilities that present themselves to me. It’s not limiting.
So what I am saying is that red pill is a praxeology. And it works.
“And I’m not making necessity a virtue.”
Married red pillers will make titanian efforts to convince themselves that they are in the most optimal position. Women don’t buy into this bullshit …they know by default that you have played provider game because that what she was looking for at the time you got married. This “gaming your wife” and “Family Alpha” bullshit must be more placebo than true. Is it you gaming her that keeps her grounded or the fact that she can’t optimise her hypergamy as a 50 years old menopausal woman?
You are my husband, I go where you go Rollo, did you know your wife repeated almost the exact words the Bible uses to define the concept of “love?” Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the LORD deal with me, be it ever so severely, if even death separates you and me.” This is a… Read more »
So she can’t optimize hypergamy at 50 huh? Assuming arguendo, what happened in the preceding 15, 20, 30 or more years?
One explanation – you are stoopid.
” . . . did you know your wife repeated almost the exact words the Bible uses to define the concept of “love?” ”
Ruth was speaking to Naomi.
Yep! Allow Reddit style replies to individual comments (and replies to the replies and so on).
This lets us skip the thread trails from Trolls and morons and read on much easier and quicker and more efficiently.
Orson, Do you even like feminine women? Are you resentful of how they act from day to day? “Married red pillers will make titanian efforts to convince themselves that they are in the most optimal position. “ Apex fallacy. Define what most optimal position is. And how that is a universal for men. All happy men are all alike; each unhappy man is unhappy in his own way… My red pill buddies IRL are fully able to judge me, call me out on my bullshit and be a resource of honesty. The map you are reading from is not the/my… Read more »
Lmao @ Orson
“It seems that this manosphere has no respect for Deadbeat Dads”
They peaked early with their second album.
“Kung Fu Girl”
OK, you get a point for originality.
Btw, my purpose of commenting is not to brag.
It is to point towards positive masculine improvement. You want to be attractive, not unattractive. Ditch the shitty attitude.
Red Pill Game works.
I wonder if BluePillProfessor ever saw LTR/MRP ever help anyone as a praxeology?
“Yeah because what if your wife cheats on you even being a dry ice.” Maybe we played this game at 4 years in while I was occupied furthering my career. Finally I came to the conclusion thinking about what-ifs was slowing down my productivity and if she wanted to cheat bad enough nothing I could do would stop her,so I decided to shine it on and pay attention to my immediate task at hand. You just can’t go through life being afraid of what ifs, this type of thinking is counterproductive.The only thing it can possibly produce is the things… Read more »
The new comments section formatting is terrible…at least for the way that I consume the comments as TTS. Being a stubborn man, even though accepting that, for me, the golden-age of TRM ended a while ago; still silver or bronze is better than elsewhere and I still find inspiration and thought provocation from the essays and the commentators. I devised a more time-consuming, slightly less enjoyable workaround. One of my guilty pleasures was checking the timestamps between debaters. On the plus side, I learned some new stuff about seq fields and the problem-solving to get the voice assignments working was… Read more »
It is definitely a bleak time for men, and you do have to approach any LTR from the perspective that a woman wants something for herself only and nothing for you. She couldn’t careless about you. She only loves you when she loves what you represent to herself, whether that is alpha fucks or beta bucks (to save her from spinsterhood). She will also tailor her approach to you with what she says and how she behaves depending on what she is after. Also, I have dealt with women who actively say they don’t shit test. Red Pill lens: they… Read more »
Additional comments about the comments, but I’ll try to be positive and seasonably charitable. The good old fixed date/time timestamp should be brought back into service and given a raise. The like button, the vote up/down counter and the updating-computer-generated timestamp, should be thanked for their efforts, with all placed on indefinite leave with pay.
“I just know that come an LTR I would have to keep that front and frame to prevent them leaving and that sounds hard work…”
Less than you think. The more unalloyed MRP, the less work. There comes a point in the LTR where both act in a manner aligning with the natural/moral order and that’s best found in a RP sense.
LTRs can and do happen by other means though there’s more moving parts and articulations to sustain them which renders the relationship more probe to failure.
Do you also bitch about the weather, too? Does it make you change your mood, your intentions and your actions. When you see a fork in the road, you should take it on occasion. “….you do have to approach any LTR from the perspective that a woman wants something for herself only and nothing for you. She couldn’t careless about you. She only loves you when she loves what you represent to herself, whether that is alpha fucks or beta bucks (to save her from spinsterhood). She will also tailor her approach to you with what she says and how… Read more »
Young men wear their “thinking machines” in their pants. Not so much old farts like me.
“You just can’t go through life being afraid of what ifs, this type of thinking is counterproductive.The only thing it can possibly produce is the things you fear the most. If she leaves she leaves,don’t sweat the small stuff. Don’t be a chickenshit.”
That’s exactly what I wanted to express, but couldn’t find the words.