Male Authority – Provisioning vs. Duty

I’ve been watching Outlaw King on Netflix recently. There’s a part where the wife of Robert the Bruce says ‘Power is making decisions, and whatever course you are charting, I choose you, my husband’ It struck me that my own wife had said almost these same words to me in 2005. When I’d decided to take a job in Orlando that would uproot us from family and friends. There was no “,…but what about my friends, career, etc.?” from her and I had no hesitation to consider anything but taking the position. She said, “You are my husband, I go where you go.”

How many men hold a default Frame in their marriage? Many women are reluctant to even accept their husband’s last name today. There’s a lot of bullshit reasons for this, but the core truth is that women have no confidence in their man in the long term. They don’t trust his ‘course’. There’s holding Frame, and then there’s establishing a long term Frame, a paradigm, a reality of his own, that defines a man’s authority in his marriage and family relationships. Women today still want marriage, but few want to defer to their husband’s ‘course’. They don’t trust him with her life.

And why would they? For the past four or five generations men have been portrayed in popular culture as untrustworthy. Either they are Beta buffoons in need of women’s uniquely female ‘reasoning’ (which is really male reasoning with breasts) to save them from themselves, or they’re malicious Alpha malcontents (or perverts) also in need of female correction to bring them to female approved justice. It’s the retribution fantasy of feminism played out in popular media, but the societal result is generations of women who have no inherent respect of men and even less trust in any beneficial course they might plot out for them as future wives.

There’s also the male perspective to consider in this. Most men approach their marriage and long term relationships from what is ostensibly an egalitarian perspective. “Equality”, playing fair, being an “equal partner” a pretense of egalitarianism, is all a cover story for a power dynamic that is truly based on resource dynamics. In a ‘modern marriage’, male authority, even just the idea of it, is ceded by default to the woman. I’ll explain why in a moment.

Today’s marriage stats and the socioeconomic variables within marriage point to a very cold truth; if you make less money than your wife, statistically, your marriage is far more likely to dissolve. In couples where a woman outearns her husband divorce rates increase. Virtually every article written about this power dynamic attempts to paint the men involved as ‘feeling threatened‘ by their wives’ success, but the visceral truth can be distilled through the process of women’s Hypergamy. As you might guess, our feminine-centric social order can never allow for an unflattering picture of women, thus men must look like ridiculous, insecure, man-babies – this is another piece of the puzzle – but the stats don’t lie, only the reasoning for them misleads us culturally.

In an “egalitarian” marriage it is actually financial considerations that imbalance that idealistic fantasy of a “coequal partnership”. Men and masculinity are made to look ridiculous, insecure, potentially violent and incompetent on a social scale. This effort to delegitimize anything male has been going on since the late 1960s. The social impact of this has resulted in several generations whose default impression of men in general is one of distrust. Either distrust based in men’s potential for abusiveness, or largely more a distrust based in a default presumption of incompetence. Women cannot trust a man with her life because a majority of men are ridiculous buffoons, no better than big children and now we add that almost 40% of them are outearned by their wives.

Is it any wonder women have no default respect for a man’s course for their lives? In fact, given these modern circumstances, fantasies of an egalitarian marriage being the ideal notion are really the only way to justify marriage at all for women. Thus, we’ve crafted a new ideal of marriage that furnishes women with legal and social failsafes to make what looks like a really horrible, life-long attachment to a buffoon or an abuser just palatable enough to have women believe things might work out for them. Don’t worry ladies, the egalitarian ideal, that any potential husband worth your consideration will subscribe to wholesale, provides you not only with options that will absolve you of all responsibility for his (and your own) failures, but you’ll never have to really do anything he says. The law is on your side, and the very premise of an egalitarian marriage frees you from ever having to go along with one of his half-baked life plans for the both of you. In fact, as long as you make more money than him, you’ll almost surely be doing the ‘course’ setting for the both of you.

Needless to say this is not conducive to women entertaining a default deference to men’s authority. If women’s baseline impression of men is one of incompetence, ridiculousness and distrust, and then you combine it with the fact that over a third of them wont be earning the same financially we begin to see the reasons for the decline in marriage today. If the default perception of men is one of expected incompetence, why would a woman ever want to get married?

This is kind of a quandary. In marriage, a man’s authority today only extends to this monetary wealth – there is no inherent authority associated with being male despite what feminist bleat about ‘male privilege’. Wealth enforces will, but women still seek to find ways around accepting that authority by assuming control of that wealth. This is one reason why “financial abuse” has been fashioned into a form of spousal abuse, but there are many other means of emotional control that mitigates male authority-by-wealth.

Even when a man is the primary breadwinner his means to authority in his marriage is still mitigated. A man’s provisioning for his wife and family has always been considered a ‘manly duty’. Even the most masculinity-confused, Vichy Males are still conditioned to assume providership as a masculine trait that is ‘non-toxic’ and approved by their teachers. In most Trad-Con thought a man isn’t even to be considered a “man” unless he can prove his competence in generating more resources than he needs for himself. The direction of every aspiration he has must be applied to providing for a future wife, their children, likely their (her) extended family and then extended to society. By the old set of books a man can’t even be given the title of “man” (or “a real man”) unless he can prove he’s prepared himself to be a good husband, father and community leader.

While there’s nothing inherently wrong with a strong desire to fulfill this provisioning agenda, the men who do accept this as their “manly duty” are conditioned to only see their sacrifices as their expected responsibility. They are actively discouraged from ever assuming any authority might be forthcoming in exchange for their sacrifices. Not even a man’s wealth is a guarantee of authority; certainly not if he’s been conditioned to believe that an egalitarian marriage is an ideal, much less a possibility.

And now we come full circle – the promulgation of an egalitarian ideal in marriage, in gender equity, in the retribution and restitution that feminism is based on, all of this and more has the latent purpose of stripping men of any concept of authority, while enforcing the ideal of male responsibility. In The Second Set of Books I made the case that most (Beta) men today live by, or would like to live by, an old social contract that on the surface seems noble. They believe in an anachronism that promises them that honor, duty, chivalry and a default respect of women will, sooner or later, be appreciated by a woman with the “quality” enough to appreciate it and show that appreciation by accepting him for her intimate attentions. Only later do they come to realize that their dedication to that anachronism is misplaced and the exchange of duty for authority is not only erased, but he’s perceived as a “toxic” monster or a ridiculous “macho” fool for ever expecting that exchange. The world is actually playing by a second set of books that expects all of his ‘honor-bound’ beliefs are his responsibility, but nothing he sacrifices grants him any authority.

Last week I hosted a Special Edition of the Red Man Group in which we discussed whether a married man today is by default Blue Pill or Beta.

RMG_Patriarchs_Title_defaultIt’s almost impossible to broach this topic without accusations of bias or personal circumstance coloring a man’s perspective of marriage – and that’s from either side of the topic. I wasn’t endorsing marriage in this; if anything I made a case against marriage based on the same questioning of men’s authority I’ve explored in this essay. By today’s standards, marriage is far too dicey a prospect for me to ever advocate for. But how far are we willing to take this abandoning of dominance hierarchies in intersexual relationships? I recently got into a debate as to whether monogamous relationships – outside formal marriage – were even beneficial for men today. In that discussion we dissected the history of monogamy and in human relations it’s at least somewhat accepted that monogamy and two-parent investment in offspring was a dynamic that’s been beneficial to our own and some other species. I think that in the past, when social circumstance was different, the concept of monogamy and the institution of marriage were instrumental in our advancement and largely beneficial. All that’s changed now and much of the second set of books I referred to in this essay is predicated on an egalitarianism that has erased male authority and placed it on the shoulders of women who are ill-equipped (and honestly not wanting) to use that authority.

This last sentence here is going to seem like heresy to those invested in blank-slate, egalitarian equalism and fempowerment, but the truth is evident and unignorable that an evolved patriarchal authority has progressed us to an age where we’ve become prosperous enough to entertain thoughts of abandoning it. Stripping men of authority while still expecting a default, and total, responsibility is a really good summation of the two sets of books – the conflict between the old and the new social contract. And yes, I’m aware of the all the arguments that this state of disempowering men is by some political design. Destabilizing the family starts with delegitimizing male authority and confusing generations of men about the aspects of masculinity. Doubt and self-loathing are key in men policing other men for presumptions of authority. It’s crabs in the bucket – when one man presumes authority there need to be ten more to pull him back down into confusion and doubt.

So where do we go with this from here? Even the most ‘Con’ of Trad-Con women will still default to their fempowerment conditioning when presented with a default male authority they are supposed to follow. Can a man be a leader in his own home anymore? MGTOWs will tell you no, and they’d be right. You can’t out-Alpha the state. But the state is still comprised of men and women with their own preconceptions and belief-sets. Our evolved firmware still predisposes us to conventional gender roles, and that predisposition is also one of women expecting  male competence, decisiveness and dominance. Women still want a man to follow in spite of their conditioning to distrust men’s competence. Maybe a new form of monogamy is in order. Egalitarianism is a dead end, it only defaults to 100% female authority and 100% male responsibility. But perhaps at some point, when things get so bad that women are forced to take a chance on the men they think are potential buffoons and abusers, a new kind of “marriage” can come out of the morass that egalitarianism has made of marriage.

How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband? I would like to believe I have this with my wife today, but I know that this is tenuous from the perspective of true, actionable authority. I once came down hard on a pastor who was advising the women of his congregation to “allow” their husbands to lead them. He was basically asking the women to stand down and trust God that their husbands we’re actually worthy of their trust. He didn’t know it, but his entire premise stemmed from women already acknowledging that they had ultimate authority over their husband as a given. Most pastors are pussy-whipped, so this default authority is usually presumed as a sexual threat-point women will exercise over their husbands. What he didn’t understand was that women’s authority is his default for a much deeper, more socially expansive reason. So even to ask women to allow their husbands to exercise ‘headship’ is ludicrous – it’s something even those women have no power to do because the presumption of authority is always in their favor. They can’t allow their men authority over them because the social paradigm they live in wont allow them to allow it.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

246 comments on “Male Authority – Provisioning vs. Duty

  1. Basically we are all fucked – the deck is stacked against you – you can sit down and play but the house always wins.

    Only those with level 95+/100 frame control practiced over time with long term partners should even consider taking the chance.

    The rest are cannon fodder – doomed to fail or suffer for years in a sexless joyless marriage.

    Good times – I feel sorry for my 16yr old son

  2. S Mackenzie

    Basically we are all fucked – the deck is stacked against you – you can sit down and play but the house always wins.

    Make yourself the house.

    Only those with level 95+/100 frame control practiced over time with long term partners should even consider taking the chance.

    Move toward being a 5%er.

    The rest are cannon fodder – doomed to fail or suffer for years in a sexless joyless marriage.

    The “rest” are not where you want to be.
    Don’t get married is a red pill axiom.
    For the already married, there is Married Red Pill. And it works.

    Good times – I feel sorry for my 16yr old son

    What are you going to do about that? He’s got a whole life ahead of him to choose among the possibilities. Throughout history, there was no joy in a man’s burden of performance, unless he created it (joy), not reacting to outside influences.

    Good times, bad times. Rollo wrote his third book, 1/3 devoted to Red Pill Parenting.

    I don’t feel sorry for my 24 year old son. (He’s a flexible and charming artist, always ready to explore and experience something new. A don’t box me in type. “I change during the course of a day. I wake and I’m one person, and when I go to sleep I know for certain I’m somebody else.–Bob Dylan)

    There is classical Stoicism for that and it works well as a philosophy and a psychology and can be used as a mindset to augment the praxeology of the Red Pill. It works.

    “Act as-if in the here-and-now. You can test beliefs even if you don’t believe they are true. All you need to do is act as if they were true and see what happens. If you find something that works, do more of it.”–Dave Gray, practices in Liminal Thinking.

    What’s with the negativity? You are reactive to what is going on out there. That is living in someone else’s Frame.

  3. “Beliefs are tied to identity. Governing beliefs, which form the basis for other beliefs, are the most difficult to change, because they are tied to personal identity and feelings of self-worth. You can’t change your governing beliefs without changing yourself.” –Dave Gray, liminal thinking, the sixth principle

    Another axiom of Red Pill. When you don’t feel release from constraint? When you are governed by governing beliefs? Change yourself. Put your oxygen mask on you first.

    Don’t attach importance to the fact that the oxygen masks might not contain oxygen, and are really just there to muffle your screams.

  4. honor, duty, honesty? why do men insist on being honest, loyal, honorable, dutiful, truthful, etc to women? save those things for dealing with men.

    with women, take your gloves off and stop trying to be ‘honest abe’ to creatures that will lie, deceive, manipulate and flake on you in a heartbeat. THEY DON’T PLAY BY THE SAME RULES!

    and they will never play by men’s rules bc they don’t know loyalty etc and don’t give two shits abt honesty. their feelings come before the truth.

    i will play by their rules. idgaf. they do anything to protect their feelings; i will do anything to get my pleasure.

  5. “Good times – I feel sorry for my 16yr old son”

    O.k. no snark here. Why say such? I’ve boys too within your sons age too.

  6. I came by this by way of Rollo’s Twitter feed referencing this:

    https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/1068355840636157952

    You are a man. You are the only creature on this planet fit to accomplish anything of worth. And because of that, the rest of the world will always try to twist your mind, or twist your arm; to force you, by deception or by threat of imprisonment, to accomplish their goals instead of your own. Learn to recognize when this is happening, and take back control of your life, so you can do the things that YOU want to do.

    -HumanSockPuppet

    It’s only rational. It’s only praxeologic. It is very do-able. You got resources. Use those fucking resources. Do not attach importance to the the unhappy and the un-lucky or the ideological what ought to be, rather than what is.

    Thank you, Rian Stone. You rock.

    Importance

    The energy of importance becomes present when disproportionate meaning is ascribed to something. Importance is pure excess potential and is eliminated by balanced forces creating problems for the person generating the potential. There are two kinds of importance: inner and outer.

    Inner or personal importance manifests when a person over-estimates their own virtues or shortcomings. The form of expression for inner importance sounds: “I am an important person”, or “I do important work”. When the arrow on the importance measure goes off the scales balanced forces come in and take things into their own hands. The “hot shot” then receives a good slap. Once balanced forces come into play disappointment also awaits the person whose work is so phenomenally important. Either there will turn out to be no demand for their work or the quality of the work will be shoddy. The other side of the coin is when a person self-deprecatingly downplays their own virtues playing smaller than they really are. In both cases the magnitude of excess potential produced is the same. The difference is only in the polarity expressed.

    Outer importance is also artificially created when a person attributes excessive meaning to an object or event in the outside world. The form of expression for outer importance might sound: “Such and such is extremely important to me” or “it is extremely important to me to do such and such…” This generates excess potential which ruins everything. Imagine having to walk along a log lying on the ground. Nothing could be simpler. But what if you had to walk along the same log placed across the roofs of two high-rise buildings? The short stroll would become extremely important to you and there would be nothing you could do to convince yourself otherwise. –Glossary, Reality Transurfing.

    Sigh.

    From the book The Practicing Stoic by Ward Farnsworth:

    If any external thing causes you distress, it is not the thing itself that troubles you, but your own judgment about it. And this you have the power to eliminate now.
    Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 8.47

    Stoicism starts with the idea that our experience of the world – our reactions, fears, desires, all of it – is not produced by the world. It is produced by what the Stoics call our judgments, or opinions.

    Everything depends on opinion. Ambition, luxury, greed, all look back to opinion; it is according to opinion that we suffer. Each man is as wretched as he has convinced himself he is.
    Seneca, Epistles 78.13

    Cicero’s expression of the Stoic thesis:

    Grief, then, is a recent opinion of some present evil, about which it seems right to feel downcast and in low spirits. Joy is a recent opinion of a present good, in response to which it seems right to be elated. Fear is an opinion of an impending evil that seems unbearable. Lust is an opinion about a good to come – that it would be better if it were already here.
    Cicero, Tusculan Disputations 4.7

    How Epictetus put it:

    For what is weeping and wailing? Opinion. What is misfortune? Opinion. What is discord, disagreement, blame, accusation, impiety, foolishness? All these are opinions and nothing else.
    Epictetus, Discourses 3.3.18–19

  7. Great topic, insightful questions and a triumphant return for Rollo to the core of gender sexual dynamics. This is after spendig (in my opinion) far too much time fretting over the feminatzi influence on society.

  8. This article is a very good discussion and analysis of the current state of LTRs, marriage and family formation.
    Been thinking about this for years, after a marriage, two kids, “I am not happy” divorce rape by BPC wife, and now freedom at three fourths of a century old.
    I paid my dues, I filed, and I walked.
    Efforts to destroy my autonomy began early in the marriage. Never seeing family life as equal or egalitarian, she was always one oil change away from a disaster, I picked up my marbles. How does a team play on a field where the other side defines the rules on a whim, and then enforces them ? Not for me !
    Here is my conclusion:
    Men have not lost their authority in our society, they gave it away. While retaining responsibility called “Blame”, we walked into a reality blindly. That is our fault and we pay dearly for that mistake. All can see that marriage is debauched and nearly fatal now, if we will look. The RP is there for those who have been zeroed out. Even the most Blue Pill man does not stand on the rail road tracks and then blame the train for mowing him down. Same thing for us with women. The temptation to dance with them is strong, like whiskey, cocaine or weed, but we must exercise our authority to choose, or not, wisely.
    I agree with Rollo that marriage is just too toxic now, but so is drinking swamp water. We mature into full authority for our lives, especially on the interpersonal level. Like fire, use your gift to further your life, not destroy it.
    If that means MIGTOW, so be it. Women are not the problem, we men are.

  9. I’m just under a year in with a low drama still very attractive and feminine girl, zero tattoos very strong farther figure, 11 years younger and no kids the only cloud on the horizon is the dynamic Rollo outlines in this essay.

    She outearns me 2:1 actually more like 3:1 after she receives her annual performance bonus! ( sales manager in the beauty industry) .
    Her friend group totally outclasses mine too as my friends are mainly old friends from schooldays or guys I’ve met through my job ( construction trade) while hers are mainly super successful business people ( she’s kinda the poor relation of the group but gets a pass because of her looks and personality, she’s very good company and fun to be around)

    Although my job is physical and most would consider it a masculine occupation this doesn’t help when compared to her income power, she wants to go on holidays and trips that I can’t really afford.

    She Also has overnight trips away most weeks ( I also work away mon-fri ) but while it’s flights and top end hotels for her with a generous expense account thrown in, in fact her monthly expenses are usually about 80% of my monthly income, I have a crappy company van stay in flea pit hotels and have a £10 evening meal allowance!

    Let’s just say it can be challenging to maintain that Alpha leader role in the relationship when the financial balance of power is so skewed.

    If I don’t change my situation soon then I just see everything going to shit after the NRE period is over.

    So starting next year I’m going to focus on my mission, this will probably fuck things up but the way I see it going forward with things as they stand it will be fucked anyway!

  10. Along with “wife-outearns husband” you’ve probably got more households now where the financial seesaw swings sharply up and down. Might be harder for the captain to keep his hands on the wheel while the deck is wildly heaving to and fro.

    In my own home you could divide each of our adult lives into four distinct career quarters, with the score bouncing back and forth like that 54-51 Chiefs-Chargers game. Whoever’s on top, don’t do some in-your-face end-zone dance — just quietly hand the ball to the ref.

  11. “How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband?”

    1; Always keep in mind that everything she says and does is a game,with the intention of taking full advantage of the male.

    2;Learn that when she is acting and doing right this is when she wants something,this includes her proclamations of love.

    3; Understand the effects of the media brainwashing that has been catered to her and learn to take advantage of the default thought process.

    4;Always cover your own ass first while using her go girl ego to your advantage by getting her to do the heavy lifting.

    5; Put her out there in front of the brand to take full advantage of the new public viewpoint.

    6;Use your male rationality, accumulated knowledge , experience and tools to keep her busy doing constructive things to your cause.

    Basically understand game and use it to your advantage. Keep a handle on the purse strings.

  12. @ boulderhead
    3) … learn to take advantage of the default thought process.
    5) Put her out there in front of the brand

    Interesting … Could you flesh these out a little more?

  13. “How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband?”

    O.B.I.T.
    @ boulderhead
    3) … learn to take advantage of the default thought process.
    5) Put her out there in front of the brand

    Interesting … Could you flesh these out a little more?

    What is the media induced default though process?

    “She can do anything you can do maybe even better” is the most common misconception. Largely and “egalitarian” ruse. Take advantage of this, let her do the dirty work she will come to you when things don’t work ,play the mechanic then,put out the fires and regroup.She will learn to trust your superior strength and rationality.

    Why put her out in front of your brand, the best reason is the media induced default programming “men bad women good” you could even have her sell slash to a logging company while at the same time you couldn’t sell pussy in a lumber camp. She has the public opinion swayed in her favor already all you need to do is get her compliance before she gets paid.

  14. off topic:

    St Andrew feast day.

    Some peculiar marriage-related superstitions have attached themselves to Saint Andrew’s feast day.

    • An old German tradition says that single women who wish to marry should ask for Saint Andrew’s help on the eve of his feast, then sleep naked that night; they will see their future husbands in their dreams.

  15. They can’t allow their men authority over them because the social paradigm they live in wont allow them to allow it.

    This is great. Catch 22.

  16. @Playdontpay

    Her earning more than you only matters if you are trying to keep her with beta bucks. Be her alpha fuck, and you’re good to go.

  17. “In marriage, a man’s authority today only extends to this monetary wealth – there is no inherent authority associated with being male despite what feminist bleat about ‘male privilege’. Wealth enforces will, but women still seek to find ways around accepting that authority by assuming control of that wealth.”

    TPTB are good at redistribution. Try not paying child support. A civil offence (not paying a bill) becomes a crime (contempt of court) by court fiat. It must be this way as non-economic social manipulation isn’t their expertise. They are limited into economic carrots and sticks with a veneer of “It’s for the kids!”.

    Fuck you money frees a man, gives him options. Being broke frees a man, gives him options. Hence being in the middle a man serves two masters poorly.

    TPTB are incompetent at anything beyond Caesar’s realm, they know this and give lip service to all the rest…like all that really matters in a man’s life, all the essentially free shit that make us happy and none of that comes from the state. None of it.

  18. Playdontpay

    “Let’s just say it can be challenging to maintain that Alpha leader role in the relationship when the financial balance of power is so skewed.

    If I don’t change my situation soon then I just see everything going to shit after the NRE period is over.”

    The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behavior which makes the original false conception come true. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning.–sociologist Robert K. Merton

    It would be best to act as if the opposite were true.

    It would be best to not put yourself in her Frame.

    Use the free excess energy of new relationship energy to enjoy and make it a good run.

    Rely on friends/acquaintances like PalmaSailor to correct your mindset. I did so when my buddies corrected me in regards to my LTR, specifically calling me out on my bullshit of my wife having higher SMV than me. They were right, and I changed my mind.

    Please: Do not go on with that attitude for your sake. Act as if the opposite was true and see what happens….

    Also, lower your mental hurdles in regards to your burden of performance. Tell yourself: No Big Deal. Would you rather go on chasing new pussy? Do you know how much more energy you will be spending on that? Having to chase in the bush, rather than having a girl in hand? Don’t you think in that case that you will repeat the same negative mindset “mistakes” all over again?

  19. Blog update: Working on a new WordPress theme that actually scales this time. I’m gonna go with this comment plug in assuming I can figure out how to move the insertion field to the bottom of the comments. And I’m going to initiate a small users’ forum to replace the field reports page. Don’t worry, I’ll migrate all the comments over.

    Any other suggestions?

  20. “Any other suggestions?”

    Keep up the good work.

    And, Oh Yeah, make an occasional comment on your blog in comments section or new forum section . We all know you are busy, and it would be a pleasure to hear your opinions here on comments that are made.

    Will the new forum have a direct or private message system?

    As a venue for men who resonate with each other to come together privately as a fight club type of network. Some of us have a network of red pilled men in real life and I think that it would be a benefit for others to do so. It’s always best for men to come together for their similarities rather than their differences and then to be on task, rather than to chat like girls in a crab bucket.

  21. “Any other suggestions?”

    Still trying to edit my own comments after posting,probably a bad idea for those goal post movers (you know who you are) , some things need changed and hindsight is 20/20.

    @O.B.I.T.

    Think of those suggestions as a form of gender Judo,using her own momentum to overcome her control.

  22. @Rollo

    Blog update: Working on a new WordPress theme that actually scales this time. I’m gonna go with this comment plug in assuming I can figure out how to move the insertion field to the bottom of the comments. And I’m going to initiate a small users’ forum to replace the field reports page. Don’t worry, I’ll migrate all the comments over.

    i vote to keep this format, even if you can’t figure out how to move the insertion field… but still try bc it is kind of annoying…lol… but overall, i think this is a better format/theme… and having to adjust to commenting via box at the top is a relatively small adjustment when balanced against the other benefits that this theme brings…

    Any other suggestions?

    i kind of miss a way to reference a specific post by time/commenter (or link) but it could just be operator error…lol…

    (like i want to +1 SJF’s comment on keeping up the good work with a reference to the specific post… but referencing “SJF’s post at “50 minutes ago” ” is probably meaningless…lol…)

    good luck!

  23. Hah!!!! We are indeed fucked however…….as I sit here 4 years post-divorce from wife number two, in my own house, and with another business, I know for a fact that I will never return to that “life” that caused me to zero out in a really bad way.

    All my adult life I thought I was the provisioner and protector within my marriages and was proven oh-so-wrong. Both times, the women ejected when I was weak. Both times I didn’t understand and was so butt hurt.

    I understand now and will never place myself in that position again. I really don’t see a downside now in living this life that the red pill has forced me to accept. I keep my own counsel and I’m certainly not lacking in feminine company.

    I’m not angry nor am I bitter, about all that lost potential. It was a pipe dream. A construct of the future of my own making. In fact I’m grateful for the lessons that my ex-wives taught me. The future for men is bleak if you look at it one way and not-so-bleak if one adopts a red pill praexology. Maintaining frame, even with high-earning women, is easy if you internalize a firm understand of human mating strategies. Just never become dependent on women for anything. They exist solely to bring me joy and the minute they don’t, they’re gone.

    I have a much greater appreciation of the love and loyalty of dogs now.

  24. “How do we get back to a state of male authority based on a woman’s trust of her husband?”

    This is the crux of the matter, the healthy woman must submit willingly 100% to a man in all areas of life. The man then is free to delegate authority back to her in certain areas depending on her temperament/judgement so a complementary balance can be achieved. Sounds simple but you must be a fairly competent male individual in order for a healthy woman to willingly cede authority. This is tricky because the world is complex, it’s not simply hunting anymore.

    Becoming a competent male is not so easy in today’s western world, in fact there is an all out culture/ideological war to make males less competent, because with competency comes independence and with independence comes power in all areas of life including relationships. A man must be competent in the areas of relationships/career/mechanical repair/leadership/ security among others but those are some big ones I can think of. If a healthy woman sees you are competent and even excel at some of those she will respect you and cede authority over those areas to you but you have to show it and not just talk about it as Rollo likes to say. None of those areas are currently being taught as part of everyday life to young males, in fact many are discouraged from even trying them. That is where we are different from previous generations some of those lessons used to be taught as part of everyday life, you didn’t have to seek them out and pay/read/take classes to get the knowledge, you simply learned via osmosis of everyday life. In order to get competent in these areas it takes incredibly hard work and determination, something that is not present in most males today, it’s a catch-22, some type of negative feedback cycle was started at some point and you have to try like hell to get out of it(unplug), it’s become a chicken and egg type scenario.

    It’s easy to say man up to all these soy/soft guys but what if they have never even seen or been part of a true male tribe/group? They have no real life references to what manning up even is. It’s not about the woman when the woman is healthy, but rather about the man at an individual relationship level.

  25. “In order to get competent in these areas it takes incredibly hard work and determination, something that is not present in most males today, it’s a catch-22, some type of negative feedback cycle was started at some point and you have to try like hell to get out of it(unplug), it’s become a chicken and egg type scenario.

    It’s easy to say man up to all these soy/soft guys but what if they have never even seen or been part of a true male tribe/group? They have no real life references to what manning up even is. It’s not about the woman when the woman is healthy, but rather about the man at an individual relationship level.”

    There’s a name for that. It is called Learned Helplessness.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

    Related to that is Gumption Traps.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumption_trap

    The obverse of that is Learned Optimism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_optimism

    One path to freedom is true Acceptance of Red Pill. Getting through the stages of unplugging.
    All the tools are present in the Red Pill tool, box. Young men just need to learn mastery of using that toolbox.

  26. Here was an excellent old essay from Ian Ironwood. (anyone know where he went?)

    http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2014/06/aunt-giggles-doesnt-get-it-red-pill-is.html

    Excerpt:

    ….Thanks to the destructive nature of feminism on femininity in the West, there are actually huge numbers of women who are miserable and unhappy with their lives and eager for any chance at a stable relationship. They write to me constantly, wondering where they can find a Red Pill man. Pursuing an unfulfilling relationship is not part of the Red Pill. Pursuing quality women is. The Red Pill teaches men that women are fungible, and if one doesn’t work out, well, there are a hundred others out there waiting in the wings. You just have to have the fortitude, skills and sense of personal responsibility to pursue them. Or, at highest form, you become the type of man who becomes pursued by them.

    The secret of the relationship side of the Red Pill, see, is not to wait around for “Ms. Right” to stick to the windshield of your BMW, it’s to make yourself into the right man to attract the right woman for you.

    The Red Pill is not science, though it is informed by science. The Red Pill is craft, like that of a carpenter. Extending that analogy, an apprentice carpenter’s work is usually crappy, due to lack of experience. A master carpenter is a master because he not only has the experience to pound a nail perfectly, but he has it to discard poor quality materials in the first place. While an apprentice may not realize that a perfectly reasonable-looking plank will warp or twist over time, a master does, and avoids it. He doesn’t blame the plank. He merely discards it and moves on.

    That’s part of what sticks in Giggles’ craw about the Red Pill: it empowers men to recognize poor quality women and avoid committing to them in the first place, or discarding them after they’ve been tried and tested in the social and erotic arena. The female imperative of hypergamy instructs a woman to do whatever she has to to land a “high quality” man for a LTR, including misrepresent herself and her character, in order to convince a man to offer a commitment. The Red Pill teaches men to resist the allure of that offer by giving them the tools to recognize a knotty, poorly-planed and possibly twisted plank, and make use of it for what it is. Use it to build a house? No. Use it to prop up a wall while you’re looking for the right plank? Why not?

    Of course some will counter that women aren’t piece of wood, or meat, or . . . whatever, that they have feelings too, etc. etc. But the fact of the matter is that the Red Pill isn’t there for women to soothe women’s hurt feelings, it’s there to help teach a man build the metaphorical house. Whatever kind of house he wants to build. He’s the one in control of commitment. She’s not. If she’s sub-standard quality, then trying to wish her into better is avoiding the personal responsibility implicit in being a more quality man.

    For the young Red Pill man, that means being able to avoid the temptation of seriously pursuing a serious relationship until he’s old enough and established enough in his masculinity to sustain one. Chasing hot women, as Elliot Rodger did in his mind, is like searching for pretty boards and not worrying if they can carry a load. More often than not they’re rotten and unstable under the pretty grain. Woe to the man who makes this mistake.

    Other young men, desperate to build, grab the first board that comes along and tries to make it fit, perceiving it as sound because it looks OK . . . but the first time it comes under pressure, it bends, twists and snaps, usually with a lot of groaning he tries to ignore. Woe to the man who makes this mistake. Only when a man is old enough and experienced enough in his masculine craft to recognize quality is he ready to start building . . . and he may have to go through a lot of lumber before he gets there. As a champion of sub-quality lumber, Aunt Giggles’ job is to help young women disguise their inherent flaws under veneer and skip around the yard until they find an untrained carpenter dumb enough to include her.

    To the older Red Pill man, who has decided to join the Patriarchy and settle down, the choice becomes critical – this is the house he’s going to raise a family in. Choosing poorly will have consequences not just for his own head, but for that of his children. For this the Red Pill toolbox offers essential skills, but the responsibility for the craft still comes from the man. He can’t blame the tools if he doesn’t use them right. He can’t blame the wood if it was warped and he didn’t bother to see it.

    To the older Red Pill man who has elected to remain with the Puerarchy, knowing the tools and using them properly means he gets to use the planks he likes as long as he likes, then tear them off and keep searching . . . as long as he likes. That’s what’s scary about the Red Pill for Giggles and her gigglettes: because it encourages a man to decline offering a commitment after trying it out. It’s not the poor carpenters arguing over the prettier veneer and bitching about the lack of good wood, as she implies, it’s the really good carpenters who are going to pass over 90% of the lumber because he’s been properly trained in how to spot their defects, and he’s often eager to pass along that wisdom.

    For this the Red Pill toolbox has many tools.

    Firstly, the recognition that YOU ARE THE DAMN CARPENTER, and that the power to build is yours – and your responsibility – alone. Your dad may have taught you how to hammer a nail, but if you ain’t nailing stuff regularly yourself, your experience in the matter is going to be telling in the final construction. Consider this the Tool Belt, the parts of the Red Pill toolbox you carry with you everywhere….

  27. @SJF

    That essay is feel good bullshit and blue/purple pill as fuck. Don’t know where to start…

    “Thanks to the destructive nature of feminism…”

    Feminism has become the bogeyman of the manosphere. It is utilised in the same way the feminists use the word Patriachy …in a manner that doesn’t explain anything and impedes critical thinking. It’s just a tool for women to achieve their subconscious and irrational desires which you cannot negotiate precisely because they are biologically determined.

    “huge numbers of women who are miserable and unhappy ”

    Many men in the sphere bring out their suppressed inner White Knight by caring so much about the well being of women and their happiness. Did your Oneitis care about your happiness when she jumped back on the cock carousel after dumping you?

    “Pursuing an unfulfilling relationship is not part of the Red Pill. Pursuing quality women is”

    Quality women is a defense mechanism for purple pilled men to shield and delude themselves against the brutality of hypergamy and AWALT.

  28. “Many men in the sphere bring out their suppressed inner White Knight by caring so much about the well being of women and their happiness…”

    I’m not going to speak for SJF, but you’re off the mark a bit.

    Check it out: Her happiness isn’t at issue, but it is more of a symptom that he’s getting the dynamic and acting on it in a way that benefits him first, her somewhere downstream. She will only be happy when he is leading her and sometimes that means leading her out of her foul moods, bitchiness, blah, blah. That’s uncomfortable for her at times, but it does make her happy albeit in a masochistic way.

    Orson, I don’t know you well and would like to get to know you better. It helps me and others see your perspective better, walk around in your shoes, if you will. Some questions: what’s your sexual relationship status, how would you describe it and does your sex life suit you now?

    No wrong answers, really. It’s nice to read your comments and thanks for contributing.

  29. Hey, that Edit button disappears after like 15 minutes. I was wanting to go back an edit all my comments from three years ago…

    The Red Pill does not let guys “off the hook”, in part because yes, Virginia, there are a lot of batshitcrazy/attention-whoring/frivorce-happy/hypergamous/outrageously-entitled females out there (count the number of “selfies” on any given young woman’s FB page for details), but also in part because the Red Pill does not “blame” women for anything. While it may blame feminism (itself a disturbing and increasingly misandrous ideology), in its purest form it accepts women for what they are and what they have become . . . and arms a Red Pill man with the tools to deal with them.

    The true Red Pill man does not blame women for what they have become. He merely recognizes the paucity of quality women in our society, and if he is inclined toward developing a long-term relationship, he becomes knowledgeable about how to recognize and pursue them. Or, conversely, if he has decided that a LTR is not in his best personal interest, he uses those tools to pursue women for short term sexual liaisons. There are even Red Pill men who decide that any interpersonal relationship with a woman is not in their interest. They do not measure their masculinity in belt notches. Neither do I. –Ian Ironwood

    I can see where there is a stumbling block in using the term “quality women”. If it makes you feel better, you can substitute the term “value added”. And keep in mind, a LTR/MRP perspective doesn’t always include so much angst or disquietude when things are going well. Ironwood’s doesn’t. Mine doesn’t. ‘Quality Woman’ is an objective observation about an individual woman. It’s not like all men are clinical retards and can’t Judge properly.

    I think it is a misconception, because The Red Pill cautions men not to prospect, (go out and seek) for “a quality woman” when they haven’t had time and reference experiences with a particular woman and is wise enough to vet what he sees. There are plenty of LTR’s in which the woman doesn’t go hypergamously feral and the man can lead. That’s the Goal, right? (At least where I hang out in Unicornlandia.)

    “Why would you like to know me better? Focus on the message and the argument …not the messenger.”

    Because of The Anna Karenina Principle.

    Because some of us are partly here to try to help others.

    Because you are discouragingly negative about hypergamy.

    Because of perspective.

    Because men in groups should judge other men by their merit, as well as the content of their character (incl. strength, courage, mastery and honor among other men).

  30. Orson,

    As a man who has nothing to hide, no one to impress, not even himself, can be trusted to be arguing in good faith.

    There’s a lot more to conversation than posturing, you know?

  31. “Quality women is a defense mechanism for purple pilled men to shield and delude themselves against the brutality of hypergamy and AWALT.”

    A quality woman is one that you don’t have to physically beat into submission. This doesn’t mean she isn’t an alpha widow only that she hasn’t been imprinted in an abusive manner.

  32. One add on, and forgive me if I’m stating the obvious. If a man doesn’t assume and exercise authority from the start, his wife “granting” it to him for the implied reason of improving the marriage, comes across (to me at least) as negotiated desire.

  33. “brutality of hypergamy and AWALT”

    Orson,

    I read the above and try to understand where you’re coming from, because:

    “brutality of hypergamy” is akin to “brutality of getting up in the morning”. Some guys can handle neither. It’s too dramatic for anyone who’s popped their cherry. So, rather than make assumptions about your complete lack of understanding and rail on your probable self-indulgent incel bullshittery, I’d give you a chance to introduce yourself.

  34. @EhIntellect

    are you married?

    Would be brutal for the deluded beta bux to wake up one morning and someone whisper in his ear that his Quality wife/Oneitis was fucked in the ass last night by a guy she met on facebook.
    I have already dated a couple of such married women which cemented my anti-marriage stance long before finding about the red pill. One such woman told me what she finds so arousing about it is the act of cheating itself. Cuckoldry felt dangerous and exciting for her.

    The irony is that the husband will go calling other men incels over the internet to feel validated from the fact that he has a wife and other men don’t have one. Even though he is more likely to be a Cuckcel. Dead bedroom and cheated on.

  35. @orson

    Lmao

    Nah his wife’s too old. he don’t gotta worry about any of that shit happening to him….unless someone really wanted to fuck with him

  36. No kidding and basement dwelling bro.

    I even felt bad for their husbands and these women would proclaim that they still love their husbands despite the treachery.

  37. “No kidding and basement dwelling bro.”

    Sounds like Orson’s possessed by j’s voice box.

    “You gotta be fucking kidding me, right?”

    These guys are frauds. They comment the same, all dodge and nervous about writing anything substantial.

  38. “I’ve been giving this issue some thought, and I think it’s getting ready to hatch.”

    Intersting NG article,what do you think of this?

    https://abruptearthchanges.com/2018/01/14/climate-change-grand-solar-minimum-and-cosmic-rays/

    “Earthquakes and Volcanos
    As a further complication in a Grand Solar Minimum, cosmic rays that make it to Earth and enter the surface, can trigger earthquakes and volcanoes and other tectonic anomalies. The penetrating particles (cosmic ray muons) from space decrease the viscosity of silica-rich magma. See: “Explosive volcanic eruptions triggered by cosmic rays: Volcano as a bubble chamber.”

  39. “You can’t out-Alpha the state.”

    See, this is just wrong. You can’t out-beta the state and you can’t out White Knight the state. But the state has zero game and is Blue Pill, so calling it ‘alpha’ is just wrong.

  40. Quality women is a defense mechanism for purple pilled men to shield and delude themselves against the brutality of hypergamy and AWALT.

    If women have no agency, then they cannot be trained and this statement is true. Otherwise, not so much. No one here denies that all women are wired for hypergamy.

    I’ll take Shakespeare over Orson and even Rollo any day. Old Will was Red Pill long before the interwebz.

  41. habd
    i kind of miss a way to reference a specific post by time/commenter (or link) but it could just be operator error…lol…

    Seconded. There’s no way to extract a URL from an individual comment so far as I can tell; It isn’t operator error.

  42. The only way I see things possibly changing on a societal level is if a good percent (maybe 15%+)
    of men refusee to marry, especially if a number of these include high SMV men. This will cause epiphany age women to lose their minds. Maybe this could start a domino effect of men refusing to marry and would lead to even 20-something women changing to avoid what they see happening to their older spinster sisters.

  43. A huge unspoken part of ” the problem “, is that there are fewer and fewer High SMV men around with each passing generation. SMV becomes strictly subjective and no longer real. Hence the fuckery and confusion when a man possessing truly high SMV shows up on the scene and steals all the pussy he wants.

    Gnashing of teeth follows.

    SMV isn’t about provision or any of that shit, lol, so today men don’t really understand what it is. Not understanding prevents possessing. Faking it in a club or bar or wherever, isn’t the same thing.

    Male Authority.

    The notion is pretty much dead and gone. I’m not sure that anything can/will ever be done to rectify the problem, as in their confusion men lash out or withdraw or just go beta and hope for the best in a woman’s grace and frame.

    No Male Authority Evident.

  44. Eric
    The only way I see things possibly changing on a societal level is if a good percent (maybe 15%+) of men refusee to marry, especially if a number of these include high SMV men.

    From time to time there’s an article from a post Wall woman in some publication or other based in the Acela corrider wailing about “the good men, where are they now?”. This is partly due to very, very tiny shifts in the availability of men at the margins. A larger shift is already happening.

    But: history tells me that women can share a man, and that a high enough SMV man can be married and have a mistress, or a soft harem. So…probably not gonna work out the way you suggest. A more extreme option would be the whole “sister wives” idea, but not for some years.

  45. Blaximus
    A huge unspoken part of ” the problem “, is that there are fewer and fewer High SMV men around with each passing generation.

    Allowing women to become their own Betas has created a glass floor under them, but their hypergamy remains unchanged.

    SMV becomes strictly subjective and no longer real.

    SMV has always been subjective as well as situational.

    Elevating women while pushing men down is making both sexes miserable, but men are perhaps better able to bear up than women. Hence the number of women over 40 taking SSRI drugs for their depression/anxiety/”problem-with-no-name”.

  46. AR

    I guess what I’m trying to say re SMV is that a grown man with ‘ high ‘ SMV can’t be a know nothing, do nothing dullard that can’t assemble sentences in conversation, and sees women as gifts worthy of praise and a gold plated pedestal.

    But women adapt and are fluid, so if they consistently run into these kinds of men, some with money, others with none, they will mentally compare loser #1 to lower #2 to figure out who’s the better deal.

    What of the moment. Good strategy to get laid right away, but awful life strategy for a man.

    Older men normally have much higher smv, assuming they don’t let their health and looks to all to hell, than younger dudes because experience and a lifetime of building themselves ( hopefully ).

    My point about Sjf earlier was that in my lifetime and experience, things didn’t used to be this way in the past, strictly speaking on how quickly young men developed themselves and gained experience,thereby raising their SMV early in life to a point where youth was an almost inconquerable factor.

    The age for men to ” find themselves ” has now been pushed into the 30’s. That’s unacceptable bullshit, but society currently doesn’t want strong, dominant, confident male, so it cheers on and encourages delayed maturity and inexperience. This is how you build a better and more complaint beta model. Men don’t feel they have any right to any kind of male authority in any setting.

    Perfect!!

    I remember when young men used to strive to be ‘ adult ‘ and to become self determining. Officially this started at age 18 ( but in my circles we started much younger ) and ‘ society ‘ didn’t look on slacking with such kindness.

    But all that was ‘ the old way ” right? 😂 that’s why things are so peachy for guys today in the smp.

    I’ve always been kind of neutral on George H.W. Bush ( rest in peace, well done ), but it’s undeniable that he was an example of a hell of a.man, beta or not. Youngest fighter pilot in the most brutal war outside of our own civil war. Youngest. He became a.pilot against the wishes of his parents. He started early. Imagine how far he would have gotten in life if he’d waited to ‘ find himself ‘ in his 30’s?

    Ambivalence about masculinity is just a losing proposition in life for young men, full stop. Life is finite and time has no brakes, and is usually going downhill. Giving up and sitting out is a waste of a life. Even a kitten Will try to fight when being harmed.

    So the beneficiary of high SMV males are facing slimmer and slimmer pickings. They Will still choose though, but nobody wins in the end.

    What if you live to be 94? What will life have meant after all that time?

    Get busy living, or get busy dying.

  47. Blaximus
    The age for men to ” find themselves ” has now been pushed into the 30’s.

    Yes. I’m sure that has been a trend for over a generation, too. There are lots of factors, from the feminized K – 12 Ritalin schools to helicopter mommies to unlimited connectivity etc.

    But it is a fact. I don’t see any top-down curative, but I do see individuals who can be helped.

  48. Men “finding themselves” has been effectively criminalized before 18. Going to sea as a cabin boy at 7, becoming a commissioned navel officer at 9 and taking a first command at 12 can’t be done today when you can’t even get a paper route until 14.

  49. kfg
    Men “finding themselves” has been effectively criminalized before 18.

    Plus since “finding themselves” can lead to toxic masculinity, it must be tightly fenced / circumscribed in the years before 18. Hence men graduating from high school who have never had a job of work for money. Learning is always hard, learning at 20 things that should have been learned 8 years earlier harder still.

    The men in their 40’s, 50’s, older who are just now coming to the Red Pill / The Glasses should be able to empathize with 20 year olds who were saturated in the Blue Pill for their entire life.

    …can’t be done today when you can’t even get a paper route until 14.

    What is a “paper route” when most people read news online?

    Extracurricular activities in K – 12 were supposed to substitute for other things, sometimes that kinda sorta works. But often it doesn’t, because helicopters keep hovering overhead even on field trips.

    Most young men don’t get to grow up next to a 5 acre woodlot, unfortunately.

    By the way, it’s a bit disappointing that nobody has even tried to point to the problem outlined in the OP: what to do when She outearns He. This has been a topic I’ve brought up here and elsewhere off and on for years, with little response. Given the way .edu trends are running and LeanIn style “girls first..and second…” is favoring women in the work world, men who are in their 20’s right now need some suggestions, plans, rulesets, etc. for dealing with the inevitable “out-earned” LTR.

    At least O.B.I.T. offered a little personal experience.

  50. Some commenter or other back at the old Spearhead once sketched out a “Captain / first officer” model for married people where she earned more than he. It might have been Athol Kay, it might have been Ian Ironwood, it might have been someone else. But the gist of it was “I’m gonna captain the boat even if she’s catching most of the fish!”.

    I’ve known a very few married situations where the woman earned a lot, maybe most, of the income. One was a military officer, married to a man who was a tinkerer. He made money on the side by gunsmithing among other things. He was former military also, but didn’t go career. I speculate that he was able to make that work by clearly delineating “outside” and “inside”. “Outside” the marriage she was an officer with some command duties, “inside” the marriage he was the commander and she was his subordinate. This is just guessing on my part, based on interactions with him only – never met the wife.

    IF that’s what he was doing, it would be workable in part because both of them were trained in how to work within a clearly defined hierarchy. Most men and almost zero women in the 20-something age group do not have such training. The example is there, but the “mental furniture” to make it work is not present.

    Still, it is possible, if a man has unshakeable Frame and a relationship structure to match.

  51. A woman outearning her ‘ man ‘ shouldn’t ever be a problem at all unless the man being outearned has only bought financial provisioning to the table in the first place. Money will always be an issue for many people/couples out in the wild, but there are some things that money just can’t buy ( not really….), And a masculine male that understands and embraced his masculine role in the world and in his relationship won’t be in danger from any high earning gal.

    But again, society at large says otherwise. Danger Will Robinson.

    In many.cases, ‘ money ‘ is used as a tool of subjugation. Everyone must bow down to the indisputable power of teh all mighty dolla bill. This is a very difficult thing to push back against because to money believers, you will sound delusional and insane. I know this from experience. Our monetary system depends upon belief.

    With exceptions, most women don’t put money above feelz and admiration and luvs. No man should get involved in any long term way with the woman that believes that money makes her ‘ something ‘. That will be a sword hanging overhead. Lots of folk see ‘ wealth ‘ of any kind as a basis for who they are. Some women are a part of this cohort as well.

    But not all are capable of allowing cash to override biology.

    Antidote: I’ve spoken here about a plate/fuckbuddy/fwb I had once upon a time. Not only did she outearn me a.few hundred times over ( millionaire earning multi million dollar bonuses from a major investment banking firm on wall street ), but at the time I saw a statement displaying that she had 10 mill cash just kinda hanging out.

    I never was impressed or cared about her dough or bonuses or earnings. I was concerned about spending time with her and having great, bed breaking sex. I always declined her invitations to ‘ exclusive ‘ clubs and restaurants, instead I chose to take her where I wanted to go and to invite her to do what I wanted to do, just like any other chick. Which she was. One exception was going to the hamptons occasionally because…hamptons😂, but more often than not I’d just take her to the Jersey shore and rent a house that was 50 years old or stay in a motel. And she never wanted to leave.

    She didn’t spend one dime. She ate ‘ boardwalk ‘ pizza and hotdogs and cotton candy and fresh squeezed lemonade. I did drive her range rover though, but I put the gas in it and paid the tolls.😁

    She said she felt comfortable, relaxed and grounded. And she came very hard multiple time a day.

    Your first clue with high earning chicks ( or male.friends for that matter ) is that they look.down on people or ‘ things ‘ as beneath their station/wealth. If you choose a.woman like this, understand that you are always subject to being looked down upon and somehow handicapped because of your bank account. You are a kind of potential dependent that can’t be written off at tax time.

    The great 👍news?

    Not everyone of means is this way. Once again burden is on you. You gotta think beyond the head of your dick or really nice tits, face and ass. Remember, ‘ hope ‘ isn’t a life strategy.

    The girl I mention once told me after a fun few days that she only wanted 2 things in life: to feel like she felt at the moment and to kill it in the financial world forever.

    My brain : ” not the girl for you long term “.

    Shame. She was hotter than fire, but she’s telegraphing some unacceptable shit. No need to bargain or cross my fingers and toss any dice.

    But I will admit in full.disclosure, I think about that range rover often.

  52. @AR

    “a bit disappointing that nobody has even tried to point to the problem outlined in the OP: what to do when She outearns He”

    lol

    <Implying he wants an LTR in the first place

    I kinda dig the role reversal tbh. I think all my girls, past and present, outearn me (by a lot actually. lmao). And they know it too. But like it doesn’t seem to matter to them cause that’s not what they want from me.

    Earlier this year, while one of my former girls went to the bathroom, I stumbled upon this just laying on her countertop:

    https://m.imgur.com/a/3xO4GPP

    I was like shit I gotta show this to the fellas. And like blax’s former fuckbuddy, My current girl also works in the Financial District. Wouldn’t surprise me if she’s a multi millionaire as well lol

  53. J

    lol

    <Implying he wants an LTR in the first place

    “Whoosh!” or “Irony?”
    Could be both.

    One of the things men do is attempt to solve problems…

  54. Blaximus
    With exceptions, most women don’t put money above feelz and admiration and luvs. No man should get involved in any long term way with the woman that believes that money makes her ‘ something ‘.

    Ok.

    Sure is a good thing that women never change. That they don’t carry around baggage from their childhood in the back of the head that isn’t even visible until triggered by life events such as “big promotion” or “birth of child” or “death of parent” or “laid off man”. Because if women were actually that complex, then a man might find himself marrying one woman and 5 years later living with a very different person. That would be a problem to solve.

    Back to your Street hotty:
    The girl I mention once told me after a fun few days that she only wanted 2 things in life: to feel like she felt at the moment and to kill it in the financial world forever.

    My brain : ” not the girl for you long term “.

    Wise choice. Now pretend that the two of you had gotten married, and after a child then she started killing it in the market. Any sort of problem to be solved, there?

    In some technical fields women are out-earning men with the same degrees right out of the gate. There are 28 year old girls working for tech who are picking up 10% more per month than 28 year old men with the same degree. This can only get worse going forward. If a 29.999 year old tech girl marries a 32 year old tech man and the salary disparity is already there, what’s gonna happen when her baby rabies gets satisfied?

    The longer term game is more complicated than it was 25 years ago, because the rules have changed. Yes, “they are all girls”, but some “girls” have gotten hugely inflated egos along the way.

    Plus…people change. Take a carpenter and marry him to an office worker. He’s doing good work in framing and finishing, netting more than her annually. Then push the office worker into a technical uni where she earns a STEM degree. She earns more. Then push her further into a PhD.

    Things are no longer the same between them…without adding a child.

    This is not a trivial problem.

  55. LOTM/Jack/LOTF…..I see a pattern.

    OK.

    j with his try-too-much-broski, yo!, non-descript sex god, I’m-crazy-so-any-of-you-faggots-fuck-with-my-shit-I-kill-ya posturing

    Orson….oh Lord…I ask about his sexual hx and he touts primarily kucking as his reference experience and…..j is on that like kj suburban white on rice.

    Now LOTM and his teenage handled, wanna be psycho grrr. Who will he spear next? Stay tuned.

    I’m not used to this much shut-in, pubescent angst. No worries, Blax, I’m getting it now and slowly coming around to TRM’s cheeto-crumbed, ample-bellied, stridex-hoarding, youth brigade.

    Me likey hyphens.

  56. J

    My broader point/idea is that I have something money cannot buy ( easily) and its 100% real and non fiat and everlasting to the grave….so far.

    It’s not about what ‘ she wants from me ‘. You’re missing the angle totally bruv.

    Who I am and what she wants , doesn’t depend on her and doesn’t affect me.

    It ain’t all about the money lebowski, but something much deeper that overrides that shit. Problem is.a.lot of.men are conditioned to not see ‘ deeper ‘. That’s why they wind up in her frame.

    Whether a man wants an ltr or not isn’t anywhere near the point. Who and what is a man in the world and wrt to the opposite sex? I mean, one can sit it out on the sidelines I suppose, but that only goes to show that they don’t understand that this mindset and lack of natural masculinity is what got all of this dumb shit going in the first place.

    You don’t stand up for yourself as a.man for anybody other than yourself. It ain’t about women or them ‘. And accepting blythly that it doesn’t matter if money is accepted as being worth more in any way than you are as a man is ludicrous, and thinking that what a woman earns should ever matter is crazy too.

    I.guess it depends on one’s notion of who and what he is. Authority.

    If a man makes it into his mid 20’s…. 😁😁 and still.doesn’t grasp any of this, ( which is fairly common now ), I cannot figure out what kind of life he expects to live for the next 50-60 years. Hell, what kind of life will be live for the next 25 years? Standing still while females run.laps around him via bullshit fake currency, when he ( should ) posses something more important in her eyes, but doesn’t. A pawn. Insignificant. Lesser.

    None of this appeals to me in any level.

  57. A R

    I get what you are saying 100%. I guess my blindspot arises from not having people in my life that have gone full chameleon on me. Sure, I’ve run across quite a few wishy washy tyoes, but once I got a good read on them, they were immediately excuse d from my life.

    I get that people not being ” solid ” or even standing for or believing in much is pretty standard nowadays, but this only means one must be more discerning. People are readable over time face to face. Most people just don’t bother or don’t know to do so.

    I have kids, lost jobs, experienced loss of close loved ones ( my wife has lost both.parents ), I’ve taken jobs earning less, earning more…. But it’s not affected me negatively in relationships at all.

    If I thought I was what I earned, or who was in my life of who was ‘ gone ‘, things would have been different for sure. Conversely I’ve watched men who were 1 dimensionally represented by things outside of themselves, and they gravitated to people that found that flatness temporarily attractive in some measure. I dunno, but that’s not smart.

    Provisioning of a.sort. You like high earning men? I am a high earning man. I win. Nah man, what else you got? Who are you? ( who who, who who..). You want kids? Me too. Nah man, what else you got? What use are you to yourself? First. What’s temporary and what’s permanent? And what do the people you choose to associate with value, for real? And can you tell?

    At some.early point in a man’s development, he MUST divorce himself from society and culture long enough to a) see it for what it is, and b) decide what he will acknowledge and accept, and what he will pay little mind to overall. Then he can happily reinsert himself with a clear head. Reading people will become easier as you sift through all of that ” standardness ” all around.

    Much like.seeing things through a red pill lense, except this is a ” all aspects of your life ” lens

  58. When Jerks do the dishes, he’s already classified.

    If she orders him and he complies, he’s beta. But that’s not what any here is advocating. There are manly chores and manly roles and a man can do some feminine chores if the woman is stretched thin. Typically only half of the quantity of chores that the woman normally does.

    You young guys still don’t get it, probably because you’ve never seen it.

  59. I like to cook when the mood strikes. I.also like to eat. 2 things I don’t care for is a kitchen sink/dishwasher with dirty dishes just hanging out, and a full clothes hamper.

    So when I want to, I’ll wash the dishes or do some laundry. I also did this when I lived solo.

    Nobody tells me to do these things nobody expects me to do these things. In fact, nobody else has anything to do with it when I do these things. Normally the unspoken rule ( subcoms yo! ) is that the outside and mechanical stuff is my domain, and the cleaning, cooking, washing etc is the wife’s. But if I’m going out of the house after cooking myself a grand
    slam breakfast, I don’t care to leave a mess.r

    I never considered it ‘ feminine ‘, and I never gave a shit what anyone else might have thought about it either. It’s not possible for me to do anything feminine, because I’m a man. If I put on a dress and heels I’m a man in a dress and heels. LOl, not going to be feminine. If you think so, we have very, very different definitions of feminine.

  60. Part of the masculine experience is taking chances/ facing adversity. Do you want safety at the expense of competence?, becomes an issue. You face adversity? What are you going to do about that?

    Adversity sharpens a man.

    From the OP:

    “Destabilizing the family starts with delegitimizing male authority and confusing generations of men about the aspects of masculinity. Doubt and self-loathing are key in men policing other men for presumptions of authority. It’s crabs in the bucket – when one man presumes authority there need to be ten more to pull him back down into confusion and doubt.”

    Outside influences don’t need to be entertained or incorporated by a self directed man. You have control over your interpretation of the world in your brain. You can dissociate what you can’t control (societal bullshit).

    This whole comment thread irks me. Whining about outside influences, when you have a lot of personal resources to not worry about the Top Down outside constraints to generating your own personal strategy. All successful/happy men are all alike; each unsuccessful/unhappy man is unhappy in his own way. A man should be successful in each and every one of a range of criteria. Not just happy-go-lucky PUA getting pussy. There is also money issues, living location, parenting (if so desired), spirituality (ascendant life in your brain. Hobbies, adventure pursuits, life outside your profession, dopamine driven desires–things that drive you to higher highs…), family health, social circles, healthy relationships, LTR game if so desired, having your own psychological health in order, feeling confident and having competence, power to control your reality and penetrate your world with you determining outcomes, winning your wars, having release from constraint. It’s all a continuum. Psychological health/strength is as important as physical strength for a masculine competence life well lived.

    Ask yourself: Do you want safety and it’s attendant buffers? Or do you want Competence and Mastery. Those two come with effort and unsafe hurdles to overcome. Safety or Competence, pick one. One has hurdles, the other has never-minds. May your hurdles be lower. If it’s a game, better you be better at that Game.

    You want to keep repeating your own mistakes/shortcomings? Good luck with that. There are tools and mentors out there for that. That is why the manosphere was invented.

  61. Menopause is just another small hurdle in which to psychologically lubricate her. My 53.5 year old wife apologized, subcomm-wise, for having her period and having a tampon in place as she laid down to bed. So be it. There is always four days from now. And she is attractive/not unattractive and wants to fuck me. No Big Deal. Low hurdle. I Am Not So needy. I read that script on the internet and from people in real life. A learned life. It works. MRP wealth and health is learn-able.

  62. “Get rid of her.”

    Why?

    She’s great. And I’m not making necessity a virtue.

    The kids are grown. I got plenty of money. It’s not about the money.

    We’er top 5%ers.

    Red Pill and MRP game got me to where I want to be with and in relationship game.

    I don’t feel constrained. And indeed I am not. I choose among the myriad possibilities that present themselves to me. It’s not limiting.

    So what I am saying is that red pill is a praxeology. And it works.

  63. “And I’m not making necessity a virtue.”

    Married red pillers will make titanian efforts to convince themselves that they are in the most optimal position. Women don’t buy into this bullshit …they know by default that you have played provider game because that what she was looking for at the time you got married. This “gaming your wife” and “Family Alpha” bullshit must be more placebo than true. Is it you gaming her that keeps her grounded or the fact that she can’t optimise her hypergamy as a 50 years old menopausal woman?

  64. You are my husband, I go where you go

    Rollo, did you know your wife repeated almost the exact words the Bible uses to define the concept of “love?”

    Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the LORD deal with me, be it ever so severely, if even death separates you and me.”

    This is a beautiful example you have given us!

    if you make less money than your wife, statistically, your marriage is far more likely to dissolve. In couples where a woman outearns her husband divorce rates increase. Virtually every article written about this power dynamic attempts to paint the men involved as ‘feeling threatened‘ by their wives’ success, but the visceral truth can be distilled through the process of women’s Hypergamy

    Men definitely become insecure in this arrangement because the wife CONSTANTLY lord it over him. She already has control of the kids, the house, and the money and the sex. When she earns all the money she has no use for you whatsoever except as a dancing monkey and a talking dildo.

    It works- but only if you are the Alpha Fucks and don’t give a shit about her constant whining and complaining. If you care and try to “do the right thing” by working hard or whatever she is complaining about she will instantly cut off sex and box you as the Beta Bux.

    will absolve you of all responsibility for his (and your own) failures, but you’ll never have to really do anything he says. The law is on your side, and the very premise of an egalitarian marriage frees you from ever having to go along with one of his half-baked life plans for the both of you. In fact, as long as you make more money than him, you’ll almost surely be doing the ‘course’ setting

    It is even worse. She will be setting the course even if you out-earn her. If she out-earns you she sets the course AND treats you with disrespect and often seething contempt. In either case, whether you ever get laid again is totally at her capricious whim.

    honor, duty, chivalry and a default respect of women will, sooner or later, be appreciated by a woman with the “quality” enough to appreciate it

    Let me assure my fellow men that it won’t. My wife is a lawyer and a CPA who makes almost $200,000/year. She is active in the church and works in the nursery. In her spare time she works in a soup kitchen and delivers meals to the sick. She has an IQ North of 130 and can even tie a Cherry stem into a knot using only her tongue!

    Does that qualify as a “quality woman?”

    Does she have an appreciation for honor, duty, or chivalry?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

    A better question: Is she even aware of the concepts?

    Answer: No! She has no clue. Loyalty may be one of her virtues. Responsibility is certainly one. But Honor? Nope! Duty? Only insofar as it makes her look good (or keeps her from looking bad).

    Chivalry. Yep! That means I as the man am supposed to shut up and listen to everything she says like it fell from the Ass of God Himself.

    As for the rest I am mostly speechless as the brilliance of this succinct essay. Rollo delivers the Laws of Life so fast it I hard to keep up. I have nothing else to say except to give some of these words a name:

    The Platinum Law of Tomossi:

    In modern marriage and relationships, nothing a man sacrifices grants him any authority.

    The Obsidian Law of Tomossi:

    “Women can’t allow their men authority over them because our social paradigm wont allow them to allow it.”

    The Iridium Law of Tomossi

    “Egalitarianism defaults to 100% female authority and 100% male responsibility.”

  65. Orson

    So she can’t optimize hypergamy at 50 huh? Assuming arguendo, what happened in the preceding 15, 20, 30 or more years?

    One explanation – you are stoopid.

  66. ” . . . did you know your wife repeated almost the exact words the Bible uses to define the concept of “love?” ”

    Ruth was speaking to Naomi.

  67. Forum…..Any other suggestions?

    Yep! Allow Reddit style replies to individual comments (and replies to the replies and so on).

    This lets us skip the thread trails from Trolls and morons and read on much easier and quicker and more efficiently.

  68. Orson,

    Do you even like feminine women? Are you resentful of how they act from day to day?

    “Married red pillers will make titanian efforts to convince themselves that they are in the most optimal position. “

    Apex fallacy. Define what most optimal position is. And how that is a universal for men.

    All happy men are all alike; each unhappy man is unhappy in his own way…

    My red pill buddies IRL are fully able to judge me, call me out on my bullshit and be a resource of honesty.

    The map you are reading from is not the/my territory.

    Women don’t buy into this bullshit …they know by default that you have played provider game because that what she was looking for at the time you got married.

    So what? They have a dualistic strategy.

    This “gaming your wife” and “Family Alpha” bullshit must be more placebo than true.

    What is your experience with that?

    Is it you gaming her that keeps her grounded or the fact that she can’t optimise her hypergamy as a 50 years old menopausal woman?

    Who said she can’t optimize her hypergamy? You made that up.

    We all know what your agenda is. Lighten up Francis. It doesn’t have to be doom and gloom.

  69. Btw, my purpose of commenting is not to brag.

    It is to point towards positive masculine improvement. You want to be attractive, not unattractive. Ditch the shitty attitude.

    Red Pill Game works.

    I wonder if BluePillProfessor ever saw LTR/MRP ever help anyone as a praxeology?

  70. “Yeah because what if your wife cheats on you even being a dry ice.”

    Maybe we played this game at 4 years in while I was occupied furthering my career. Finally I came to the conclusion thinking about what-ifs was slowing down my productivity and if she wanted to cheat bad enough nothing I could do would stop her,so I decided to shine it on and pay attention to my immediate task at hand.

    You just can’t go through life being afraid of what ifs, this type of thinking is counterproductive.The only thing it can possibly produce is the things you fear the most. If she leaves she leaves,don’t sweat the small stuff. Don’t be a chickenshit.

  71. The new comments section formatting is terrible…at least for the way that I consume the comments as TTS. Being a stubborn man, even though accepting that, for me, the golden-age of TRM ended a while ago; still silver or bronze is better than elsewhere and I still find inspiration and thought provocation from the essays and the commentators. I devised a more time-consuming, slightly less enjoyable workaround. One of my guilty pleasures was checking the timestamps between debaters. On the plus side, I learned some new stuff about seq fields and the problem-solving to get the voice assignments working was a good challenge. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!

  72. It is definitely a bleak time for men, and you do have to approach any LTR from the perspective that a woman wants something for herself only and nothing for you. She couldn’t careless about you. She only loves you when she loves what you represent to herself, whether that is alpha fucks or beta bucks (to save her from spinsterhood). She will also tailor her approach to you with what she says and how she behaves depending on what she is after.

    Also, I have dealt with women who actively say they don’t shit test. Red Pill lens: they shit test the most. I have to stop myself laughing in their face when they say, “I’m doing things right this time”.

    I am 30 and still sarge the clubs with success, but it is unforfilling and I cannot do so indefinitely with my aging and to be honest I have slowed it down because I feel empty and worse after orgasm with them knowing their is no emotional connection to the women I fuck. I go clubbing on my own for fuck sake. It’s becoming even more scary with the #metoo movement and sarging the meat market clubs.

    I’m more depressed when I do this. It’s proper fucked up. I’d rather knock one out and go to the gym or a bike ride sometimes. I know that makes me sound beta, which I advocate I’m not, and maybe I’m not a natural alpha, but I know what works in the clubs. Call it an alpha front or lesser alpha if you like. I can also talk to women no problem and just treat them as little girls.

    I just know that come an LTR I would have to keep that front and frame to prevent them leaving and that sounds hard work, and I often wonder if I have the inner strength to become the man I want to be.

    Also, can you ever really be in an LTR now knowing they don’t love you for who you are. I’m not sure I would even want that. I just want to be who I am. But we all know that is bullshit, too.

    I have friends who know I go clubbing tell me they envy my ability to sarge, but they have nothing to be envious of because it is all bullshit and unforfilling. Food for thought. Good luck eveyone with what road you decide to travel with you red pill lens.

  73. Additional comments about the comments, but I’ll try to be positive and seasonably charitable. The good old fixed date/time timestamp should be brought back into service and given a raise. The like button, the vote up/down counter and the updating-computer-generated timestamp, should be thanked for their efforts, with all placed on indefinite leave with pay.

  74. “I just know that come an LTR I would have to keep that front and frame to prevent them leaving and that sounds hard work…”

    Less than you think. The more unalloyed MRP, the less work. There comes a point in the LTR where both act in a manner aligning with the natural/moral order and that’s best found in a RP sense.

    LTRs can and do happen by other means though there’s more moving parts and articulations to sustain them which renders the relationship more probe to failure.

  75. Do you also bitch about the weather, too? Does it make you change your mood, your intentions and your actions.

    When you see a fork in the road, you should take it on occasion.

    “….you do have to approach any LTR from the perspective that a woman wants something for herself only and nothing for you. She couldn’t careless about you. She only loves you when she loves what you represent to herself, whether that is alpha fucks or beta bucks (to save her from spinsterhood). She will also tailor her approach to you with what she says and how she behaves depending on what she is after.”

    You don’t approach an LTR. An LTR approaches you as an opportunity and you as a male get to choose. It doesn’t choose you.

    The positive side of Hypergamy is that she also gets to choose you. You don’t have to accept. You don’t have to commit. You get the choice.

    That’s where you being the best you comes in. Start working on that.

    @JohnD

    “…and that sounds hard work, and I often wonder if I have the inner strength to become the man I want to be.”

    “…I just want to be who I am. But we all know that is bullshit, too.”

    One of these is not like the other. You want to be better. You don’t want to be your current self. What are you going to do about that?

    You are giving yourself a wake up call.

    If you don’t admire and respect yourself you don’t want to be who you are. You want to be more strong, courageous, skilled and have agency and power. So work towards that. Get someone to talk to. Get a mentor. Accept criticism gladly.

    Do you see what is going on here?

  76. “You just can’t go through life being afraid of what ifs, this type of thinking is counterproductive.The only thing it can possibly produce is the things you fear the most. If she leaves she leaves,don’t sweat the small stuff. Don’t be a chickenshit.”

    +1

    That’s exactly what I wanted to express, but couldn’t find the words.

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