On Saturday I had a great discussion with Anthony Johnson, Rian Stone (Married Red Pill Reddit) and “Carl” from Black Label Logic. The topic was a critique of the impact Dr. Jordan Peterson is having on a society of ‘lost’ (mostly) young men and how his message is affecting this generally rudderless generation of men. It’s a little over two hours long, but from the overwhelming response on YouTube, Facebook, Reddit and other forums it’s definitely struck a nerve. As an aside here, I’m considering making this meet up video format something I may do semi-regularly (like every other week) with some of the men I consider peers in the manosphere.
You can watch this talk at your leisure, but it has taught me a few things. As I mentioned in the chat it’s next to impossible to have any disagreement or critique of people whom other’s believe are your betters. As Rollo Tomassi it’s impossible for me to be critical of any high profile guy in the sphere without the accusations of professional jealousy or sour grapes being the first reflexive response from haters. I got that, but I’ve learned the conversation is more important that trying to convince anyone of it being genuine. In fact, I think it belies a bigger problem when they are above critique.
That aside, I think it was good to finally parse where Red Pill awareness and what Peterson is advocating have some overlap and where we differ. Peterson is a fountain of hope for the ‘lost’ boys, so anything critical of his message is going to sound like it’s endorsing an “enjoy the decline” mentality. I can’t expect everyone to have read up on my own opinion about that, but the short version is that I’ve never been convinced of some inevitable decline and fall of western civilization. In other words, I think it is possible to turn the ship around; where I may differ is in how that might be done.
For the record here I want to say that I have a great respect for Dr. Peterson. I think he’s what the sphere has needed for a while and I think he fits the role of ‘champion’ that a generation of young men have wanted to place on someone. Ideologically I agree with about 85-90% of what he advocates and there’s no doubt that he’s got definite skin in the game. In fact I really hate it when people use that as some catch phrase to disqualify men today. As a man weĀ all have skin in the game now. How much and to what degree may be debatable, but we all live in a feminine-primary social order and as such we all have a lot to risk whether we acknowledge this or not.
Where I differ with Peterson is in his very Trad-Con solutions to turning the ship around. I wasn’t shocked to see him endorsed in videos for Prager University. In some ways what he proposes resonates with young men looking for a direction because their fathers and generations of Blue Pill men haven’t been able to deliver a way out of Hell for them. I go into this in more detail in our talk here, but here are some of my issues with Peterson’s take on things:
ā¢ Life is suffering and sacrifice: In every video I’ve watched Dr. Peterson’s founding (zen-like) premise is that life is suffering and the best men can do is to find ways to minimize that suffering. Men (and I’ve yet to see a video addressing women) must sacrifice parts or all of themselves in order to qualify for “genuine” manhood. The degree of that self-sacrifice is relative to how high a status that man can achieve.
I fundamentally disagree with this premise though I do understand why it’s so appealing to a ‘lost generation’ of young men. From my own perspective, life is based on a perpetual discontent, but how a man deals with that discontent ā creatively or destructively ā is the measure of him. Furthermore, I would argue that women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make in order to facilitate their reality.
ā¢ Blue Pill conditioning seems to define his perspective of women: Essentially the archetype he has for women was formed for him as a 7 year old boy when he first developed a soul-mate ONEitis for his wife. His reluctance to acknowledge the Alpha Fucks side of women’s Hypergamy in any video (beyond his repeated use of 50 Shades of Grey as a humorous example) leads me to the impression that he defaults to women as innately ‘good’ and above too much criticism. As such he focuses almost entirely on the good provider / parental investment / Beta need side of Hypergamy. This is unsurprising as it follows the same Trad-Con interpretations of women being “closer to God than men” and men must qualify themselves, and sacrifice themselves for women’s (wives) intimate approval. Dalrock has covered this dynamic among male “complementarian” Christian leaders quite extensively.
ā¢ Sacrifice of men is a parallel to men’s disposability: Men willĀ blow themselves up for pussy. From what I gather from his talks Peterson endorses male disposability as a form of Honor. He seems to play on the ‘Man Up / Shut Up’ dynamic I talked about inĀ The Honor System.Ā What ever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a manās masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny.Ā I’m not suggesting Peterson is accusing men of Patriarchy or Misogyny, rather, like most Trad-Cons, it’s a question of living up to one’s duty as a man in his disposability and his usefulness in that sacrifice.
ā¢ “Get your shit together” is also a plea for sacrifice: If a man is less valuable his sacrifice is less meaningful. No one cares about mediocre / average men’s sacrifices, but if a man accepts that he is to improve himself it is so that his sacrifice is more appreciated and important. Thus, the comparisons to Christ’s sacrifice as being the ultimate expression of sacrifice and meaning which Peterson uses in his dissertations on manhood and the Bible. My issue here is that women and a feminine-primary social order lack a capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make because these are taken-for-granted expectations of what a man just “ought to do”.
ā¢ Peterson is egalitarian to a fault: The mantra may be for men to sack up and make something of themselves, but this is couched in an egalitarian equalism that’s prevalent today. If I had one question to ask Jordan it would be this; is there a dominance hierarchy in a healthy LTR or marriage? I don’t know for certain. My guess is he would say it passes back and forth between a husband and wife which is to say he falls back on an egalitarian ideal. However, outside the family structure he acknowledges that men and women in a state of egalitarianism choose to adopt traditional gender roles (I think he gave the same example as was covered here).
ā¢ Dr. Peterson regularly resorts to shaming language with men, rarely does he do the same with women: This may be a simple question of his delivery, but Peterson is always harder on men than he is with women. In so doing he adopts the AMOGing of only men techniques that a pastor like Mark Driscoll uses from the pulpit. Inso doing he pedestalizes women and absolves them of any consequences of their Hypergamous choices by imploring men to “man up and marry those sluts“. In essence the sacrificial nature of men becomes one that is necessary for the continuance of ‘family’ and western culture in spite of women. I also see how this plays into the idea of women lacking any moral agency, personal responsibility and wiping the bad behavior of women off on the men who have allowed this to happen. Once again it comes back to the hypoagency of women.
ā¢ Peterson believes that desire can be negotiated: This is my biggest problem with Peterson’s approach to women. This undoubtedly comes from his being a clinical psychologist, but like most therapists he defaults to the idea that genuine desire can be motivated by a process of negotiation. If there is one example of his lack of experience with women it is this belief. In several of his interviews and podcasts he makes reference to appealing to women’s reason and negotiating terms for acceptable behavior (always a man’s behavior) in exchange for intimacy and/or a stress-free marriage. This is the egalitarian, Oprah Approved, male-sublimated means to achieving transactional intimacy.
As you might guess, I strongly disagree with negotiating intimacy. You cannot negotiate genuine desire. You can obligate a woman to fuck you (now called rape) via negotiation, but you cannot organically inspire genuine desire in a woman. This has always been my main point of contention with the marriage counseling trade for a long time.
What is the Red Pill version of āman-upā?
I had a commenter ask me this in the last comment thread. I think thereās two sides to this question. First, I think thereās a need to keep the Red Pill (in the intersexual sense) as close to an objectivist purpose as possible. That means Red Pill awareness is the result of a continuing praxeology.
Iāve locked horns with a few Red Pill guys recently who seem to think that ‘Red Pill’ is an ideology and itās just the counter revolt to feminism; basically it is feminism for men. I think that does a huge disservice to everything and everyone thatās brought us to where we are today in Red Pill awareness and all of the work and personal risk that was put on the line to explore what we know as Red Pill awareness now. Not only that it casually devalues the effort and work thatās continuing right now.
Critics and feminists alike want to draw parallels in the manosphere to whatever (fictitious) wave of feminism they think applies to whatever the Men’s Rights Movement is calling Red Pill at the moment. Believing that Red Pill is an ideology is one more casualty of how the term / brand has been bastardized by other ideologies who’ve never had any business referring to themselves as “red pill”.
Presuming Red Pill is just an ideology is juvenile, and unsurprisingly itās an opinion of some underexperienced men in the manosphere who want for simplistic answers. They donāt want to think about what Red Pill awareness implies on a larger social scale. They want a flag to wave and an easy to understand ideology so they can stick it to their feminist enemies. I get it. They want Red Pill (however they define it) to be that ideology, but to me, I think, and Iāve always said it, the Red Pill needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, areligious and amoral to ensure that it stays true to understanding truth. It needs to remain true to being an aggregate of men’s collected experiences with intersexual dynamics.
What these guys want is a meaning to that truth, but thatās not the Red Pill. Meaning is what men will apply to that truth according to their individual needs, situations and circumstances. This is why Peterson and probably some more personalities to follow him will be popular in the future; they prioritize meaning above truth. If you listen to the first podcast of Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson they spend the entire time trying to come to an agreed measure of truth between the two of them so they can move on (in the second podcast) to what is meaning.
You want to know why I donāt do prescriptions on The Rational Male? Because we disempower ourselves when we follow someone elseās path and not our own.
There is a deep need in almost all people to improve or āfixā ourselves in some way. Iāve written essays about it; discontent is is the human condition. That in no way means that life is suffering as per the Peterson (Zen) doctrine, but it is manās condition to never be satisfied with even the greatest of accomplishments. That is what put us at the top of the species contest on this planet. You can be constructively or destructively discontent, but when you tell me that life is suffering and the only way to lessen that suffering (never to solve it of course) is to sacrifice my way to a better life all that says to me is that youāre out of ideas for a creative solution and youāre all-in on the destructive methods. Either that or you’ll continue naval gazing.
Fuck that.
So, the Red Pill needs to remain a praxeology and it ought to always resist being force-fit into an ideology because itās always some ideological hack who wants to claim the truth it reveals as proof of his own purpose. The Red Pill has to remain an open source aggregate of menās experiences. Thatās why weāre still here today in spite of the Rooshs who said it would die out 3 years ago ā itās open source and decentralized information.
Now, to the second point, what does āMan upā mean in the Red Pill context? I think this is really for the individual to decide, but Iād say that it would involve a man utilizing and internalizing the awareness the Red Pill represents to him and improving his life with it. In the Safety Net postās comment thread there are hundreds of examples of how men saved their own lives, often literally. How the Red Pill truth reached them and then manifested in their lives is highly individual. I mentioned the need for a dissociation with ideology because that usually means aligning oneself with the expectations of someone elseās version of truth, not the objective (or as objective as we can make it) truth of the Red Pill.
When I hear āman-upā, I identify the context only as derogatoryā¦ is there any other definition which is not?
It should, because in almost all contexts imploring a guy to “Man Up” is following someone else’s path, not your own. This is what I mean when I say that I’m not in the business of creating better men, I’m in the business of men making themselves better men. And in today’s world of men seeking direction there is no shortage of personalities who’d like nothing more than to profit from selling men on their paths.
If there is a definition of āmanning upā in a Red Pill sense it is living a better way than your previous life that was informed by the falsehoods of your Blue Pill conditioning. Manning up Red Pill is killing off that old Blue Pill-created persona and killing off the false idealisms it taught you. Itās understanding and internalizing that those lies made you a less authentic person because the Blue Pill is firmly an ideology, but one that wears the mask of freedom or choice or individualism. If self-improvement in a Red Pill sense entail some basic tenets, one is that a man cuts himself away from that old Blue Pill paradigm and rebuilds a better life for himself based on a real understanding of intersexual truth on the personal, social and political scales.
Manning up Red Pill begins with rejecting the lies of egalitarian equalism and a commitment to real objective understanding of intersexual dynamics.
Keith — It’s really Dalrock, Deepstrength’s place, and Donal’s place, and they have links to other places on their sites too that are not always strictly RP, but deal with similar issues.
@Keith:
Dalrock and Donal Graeme are not just blogs, they are community hubs. Check through their blogrolls for what you like.
Alpha Walk-In
https://www.boredpanda.com/overweight-welshman-businessman-transformation-model-gwilym-pugh/
It’s leaning out Higgs not beards.
And surgery… Lol. Not convinced same dude.
But lean. Yes.
To have a beard you don’t have to grow it – you have to stop cutting it.
@nova but the groups are quite different in their fundamental values and therefore how they utilize various aspects of the praxeology, Geez Nova, you must have some kind of superpower as the only person who understands what I am saying (why I am yo’ grasshoppa). But let’s cut to the chase. Rollo’s contention is that the RP as he presents it is, or should be, amoral. It isn’t. There are values – morals, if you will, – implied by everything he writes. But it is presented as if everything he writes is merely “objective truth.” That ain’t so. The reality… Read more »
@Mitch Observations of reality as it is are amoral. Just ask a good scientist. There is no morality to reality itself. There is only what it is. The decisions you make based on a more accurate model of reality will certainly have a morality to them, as you’re applying your personal values to that model to derive moral decisions. TRP is simply a set of observations about the reality of human behavior with all value systems stripped away in order to be more universal in its application. It’s no more moral than germ theory or Newtonian gravity. They are simply… Read more »
@Mitch- Hey, let me know when you get your blog up. I’ll be the first to not read it.
Mitch
February 17, 2018 at 10:05 am
Could you explain the moral value of the charge of the electron? Or the morality of Planck’s constant? We can go into Laws. Like Ohm’s. Is it a moral law?
Facts are what they are.
They are amoral.
Now if you have trouble with that kind of thinking…..
Agenda?
“If I do have an agenda, it would be to expose the fact that values are inextricably intertwined with Red Pill praxeology.”
Yup. There it is.
Mitch you were in a cult you know how it all works… We know too.
The Pretenders… right on cue.
Let’s keep this shit swept under the rug. Because we’re three years old, and just wanna do what we wanna.
Just be honest about it. RP provides the “objective” rationale – the excuse – to do what you wanna.
Beta Buffering -ya, ya, ya I got it. You don’t even need to say it.
@Mitch
Might wanna see a proctologist. Your butthurt’s starting to make you irritable.
Excuse?
I reject the premise on it’s face.
@Mitch:
Sneaky Fucker is an actual term in biology, not just some random insult. It signifies a sexual strategy.
“However the quotations refer to my contention that the objective need is to actually move sexual energy through your body and project it somewhere.”
See? That’s a statement of sexual strategy. Sneaky Fucker strategy. Dominant Fucker strategy doesn’t project Eros “somewhere.” It has a direct goal.
Mitch
February 17, 2018 at 11:34 am
Well OK. I’m a little (a lot?) dense. So make it simple for me.
1. Name the facts in question.
2. What in your opinion should be done.
Simple sentences. Do not mix item 1 with item 2.
Facts.
Opinions.
Think of it as humoring an old man who could be partly senile. Keep it simple.
I don’t happen to recognise sexual energy as the same as other energies, so I can’t/won’t trynto redirect or project it towards something else. Sure, I’ve heard this before, but I’m not personally interested. Sexual energy can’t assist me in framing a basement. I summon Framing Energy to do this, and I keep naked sexy women out of the work area because, you know…. The imposition of particular ” morals ” can effect one’s perception of ” energy “, and trick you into believing that you’re actually projecting energies elsewhere, but nah, that’s distraction. You’re diverting attention, and then using… Read more »
More accurately Roosh died 3 years ago. ROK is shadow of former self. It was entertaining first year. But no staying power. Because it wasn’t built on anything more than how get the bang with HB6.
But letās cut to the chase. Rolloās contention is that the RP as he presents it is, or should be, amoral. It isnāt. There are values ā morals, if you will, ā implied by everything he writes. But it is presented as if everything he writes is merely āobjective truth.ā That aināt so. The reality of female hypergamy, and womenās base sexual nature is true, objectively speaking. Men āneedā sex ā thatās true too. However the quotations refer to my contention that the objective need is to actually move sexual energy through your body and project it somewhere. Channel Eros.… Read more »
@Mitch
Is arithmetic moral?
Math can be used to figure out how to split the atom and kill millions, or it can be used to save lives in medicine, but is math itself moral?
Robert Greene makes a similar argument in the introduction of the 48 Laws of Power. Power itself is neither moral nor immoral but in how we use that power.
So should we moralistically study power or math? Would that contribute to, or diminish our real understanding of either?
Read up:
https://therationalmale.com/2012/03/23/moral-to-the-manosphere/
https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/28/humanism-behaviorism-and-the-amorality-of-game/
https://therationalmale.com/2012/11/06/people-are-people/
When we presume that only a moral paradigm is the appropriate way to interpret data, that’s when truths to you are lies to me.
Novaseeker and kfg thank you I will look in to the other blogs and hubs. I have moral problems. This is not a red pill vs. blue pill type of problems.
@Mitch: “Men don’t need sex”
ššššššššššš
Slow down son…
Fascinating moralism/behaviorism essays, resultant questions –
1. If the core objective were not control over others, would a moral argument even exist? i.e. is their sole purpose control of others? To that end would obfuscation be as acceptable as illumination?
2. If an argument is factually real-world-evidence supportable — can it even be a moral argument?
Does one need moralized against touching a hot stove?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n7kQYcHy9U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zw634ZZiek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLNTb2zfh3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDuF4yFXtE&list=PL5vtqDuUM1DmG3NXU7FYFUu_brI0MHYju
Rollo Tomassi
February 17, 2018 at 1:17 pm
The Earth is flat. That is the only possible morally acceptable conclusion.
(said the leaders of some church a number of years back)
https://youtu.be/TPihPrNseAo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qAFCX9OqiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTNDrXlNFfQ
Rugby, my man.
Some of those videos are starting to make us gag. I don’t know what Try Guys are but they need a good ass kicking. No men (and I use the term reservedly) nudes and semi-nudes pretending to be women – please. Thanks Mate.
I come here for relief from all that 24/7 BS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mwMNCEx8hk
You will never escape the performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O8wiwu0elA
Sorry lost came up on feed… Went out today and was well… Life continues…
“Went out today and was wellā¦ Life continuesā¦”
That’s it brother. Life.
@m simon 1. Name the facts in question. 2. What in your opinion should be done. 1) See Nova’s discussion above re: the difference between the objective, observable facts of intersexual dynamics, vs the praxis – what one chooses to do about it. The second, however, must have moral implications because it involves praxis/action, and that always involves moral implications ā keeping in mind that even if oneās personal view is āthere are no moral rules in intersexual dynamicsā, that in itself is a moral perspective because it is simply stating oneās opinion about whether moral rules should apply to… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho5DeLr29No
Goodnight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PYmmIqpc1c
Lost Patrol
Mitch
February 17, 2018 at 6:52 pm
My error. I should have asked for specifics.
So how about some specifics?
Mitch asks: “should I lie to my wife about my side piece,” No. And you should tell her as soon as it happens (getting a piece), because it will make her hot for you – if she has ONE-itis. If she doesn’t? Keep your lawyers # handy. Valentines day this year was the same as last year. WE went on a girl hunt together. Just knowing I’m on the prowl gets her hot. Last year I got very heavy IOIs from our waitress. She served the LTR from my side of the table. This year nothing nearly as interesting. I… Read more »
@m simon Does the answer I gave to Rollo help? Data is what it is. Hypergamy, AF/BB, carosel, shit tests, etc are data. What *works* to get laid is data. How you choose to act upon that data ā should I get married, should I spin plates, should I lie to my wife about my side piece, do leave my plates better off than when I found them, do I care about that or not, to what degree, are there any parameters at all that should guide my behavior? these are inherently moral questions, that involve values. If not, then… Read more »
@ m simon
lol.. that’s a good answer actually. I have enjoyed your stories about your r’ship with your wife.
So Blax, I see what you’re saying, and it’s totally understandable, especially in this hyper-sexed day and age to come to that conclusion. That men NEED sex. Itās also understandable to come to this conclusion if youāve never met a healthy celibate. A volcel if you will. Itās easy to believe they donāt exist, or believe that they arenāt really sexual beings. Itās not true. They exist and they are sexual beings. Yes, theyāre rare. Iād like to be able give you another example outside Catholic clergy, but canāt think of one. In our culture only Catholic clergy and religious… Read more »
and regarding the pedophile issue:
Pedophile priests are not a celibacy issue ā a pedophile is a sick man thatās gonna pedophile wherever he is; the priesthood gave him a place to hide and a place to get access to victims. The biggest crime in this whole thing is the bishops covering it up, and moving these guys from parish to parish. Iām very sorry these bishops are not in prison ā they should be, but they will meet their reward in the 9th circle of Hell. (Dante ā who said betrayal is the absolute worst of all sins]
So Mitch, One Thing that I have observed (and I am a pretty good observer) is that when I myself went Red Pill junkie, when my guy friends went all in on red pill and we Gamed. Some of my guy friends were Blue Pill. Some were Alphas. Some were never Blue Pill (myself included) but were severely betatized. Because of the FI. The thing I observed was that all of these guys went through a self improvement phase. And their women were always in a better position because to the transformation the guy went through. The women were treated… Read more »
Mitch is trolling you. Again.
Mitch, take your imaginary Sky Fairy and shove him up your ass, k.
The unconditional love I have for my wife and children is not sublimated in some fantasy world of not wanting to fuck my wife silly. Eros is not Agape.
And Eros is not to be cheapened by being sublimated, or suppressed. Self discipline it an easy mother fucker to be handled, by mere experience and staying out of trouble. That’s what moving into adult-hood is for.
Self suppression is a Beta Crime. And it’s not attractive. Be attractive, don’t be unattractive.
“Pedophile priests are not a celibacy issue”
WTF? Most certainly is. Total lack of discipline. Sick yes. Disease? Not quite. A total abdication of integrity in the church. Opportunistic opportunism.
I thought you were an advocate of moralism, Mitch.
Morals. A slope of immense slipperiness. Suicide bombers have lots of morals. Too much for my tastes. I think there’s much guidance in the commandments, yet if men broke into my home tonight, I’d do my level best to make sure they left prone and without breath. I’d still consider myself as having some level of morality, but many people would disagree because ” thou shalt not kill “. Hopefully not many of them will populate my jury. After reading the bible for the umpteenth time as a teen, I approached Reverend’s and priest with the same question – is… Read more »
… Fuck spell check – immoral, not immortal.
PSA on Eastern Orthodox Lent
EO Lent starts Sunday, sundown, 18 Feb this year. This year I will be abstaining from internet commenting from tomorrow night through Orthodox Pascha (which is April 8), in addition to the regular, physical, fast.
I wish you all well during this time. I will be reading from time to time during the fast, but not frequently, and will not be commenting after tomorrow evening, Sunday 18 Feb.
I wish you all well during this time.
Spent the day at full lean angle on the Duc. Lime Creek Road is always accurate in its assessment of my skills.
http://www.motorcycleroads.us/roads/tx_lcr.html
In riding and in martial arts I’ve found one very strong commonality: your problems, your concerns, your dilemmas, your morality… if that shit ain’t incredibly far from your mind you won’t be in the moment. Bad things happen when you’re not in the moment.
SFJ WTF, man. Was it the Transurfing stuff that messed up your reasoning ability? Your ability to understand the arguments and points actually being made? You constantly reply to me with arguments that simply don’t apply to anything I’ve said. I’m sure the Jesuits taught you better. What happened? Every fucking man I know that embraced Red pill with Acceptance made his girl partners better. Every one. So? I’ve never argued anything to the contrary. Will you serve morals or will you āmorallyā make life better for you and you wife by being in Acceptance of Red Pill. Serving morals.… Read more »
Nova,
What a great thing to do for Lent. Will miss you.
It’s not crazy Blax.
You made a ton of moral statements in your post. *Your* morals.
My belief? If Hitler, at his dying breath, repented completely and sincerely, he would not be in Hell. He’d likely spend a hell of alot of time in purgatory, purging that filthy soul, though. God decides all that, not us.
“Morality on a sliding scale perhaps?”
Brilliant this. With this, hit the very crux.
Perhaps like lines of longitude and latitude, morals are but mindstuff. Mental projections which, while useful, do not actually exist. If so, this explains why they may be warped about so easily. Why they may evolve even through a single lifetime.
JBP: Non-entity wimp-bag that hates masculinity with little boy voice; not relevant; not a person, rather, a funded propaganda entity that demonizes even the idea of testosterone; nuisance that does not exist; ignore
Mitch actually is decent troll.
Hi Rollo, what are your thoughts on the concept of male virginity and the associated social stigma, especially in post-teenage years? I know its been a while since all the old men here thought about how stressful it was to get your first piece of ass.
Related to this, what are your thoughts on the isolation of younger men from peers (mate competition?) and how that would lead to a beta / blue pill mindset that is beneficial (or is perhaps caused?) by the feminine imperative (betas in waiting).
Say, Mitch, all that talk of redirecting Eros to Agapewhateverthefuck wouldn’t be an effort at coming to grips with the fact that your Ukrainicorn has cut you off already, would it?
Mitch February 17, 2018 at 10:09 pm You are trying to shoehorn your life and experience into a rule book. It can’t be done. Which is why I asked you for SPECIFICs vs generalities. Why listen to a bunch of priests when you can listen to God directly? (or as I prefer The Force) The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. You have about half your brain devoted to “God” and most people have not a glimmer of… Read more »
When I were a wee lad one of the great political questions was; can a Catholic even be allowed to be the President of the United States. Because wherever they go, whatever they are doing, they always seem to end up making it all about the Church.
The British American colonies were born with a great religious division (and number of subdivisions within), but both sides agreed on what needed to be done on November 5th.
“Why listen to a bunch of priests when you can listen to God directly?”
Enter the 30 Years War, stage left.
kfg
February 18, 2018 at 5:03 am
LOL.
ISNGEINTKI February 18, 2018 at 4:30 am My first experience with a woman was a bit different from the usual. 1. She came after me – nerdy and inept as I was. 2. The first time she “wanted to” I turned her down. She (an experienced 22 yo – I was 18) wasn’t emotionally ready. It was the anniversary of a bad experience for her. We waited a week or two. It was ecstatic. I was walking home as the sun was rising. A glorious day. (How cliched can you get?) ========== As to your main topic. Most men through… Read more »
During the last few millennia men were made dominant by law. It made us weak.
The laws are being flushed. We are now having to learn to be dominant on our own. Other than the disruption of social order – not a bad thing.
M Simon For years I used to joke that I was going to print up a bunch of t shirts that read ” Read Your Bible “. I even had one printed up for myself as kind of a prototype. Why do we need to go into specific buildings and look towards a specific hierarchy of self appointed men to facilitate a spiritual connection? It seems to me that is secondary. That’s why if the priest is banging dudes from the congregation, or the Reverend is sexing one of the choir girls, it is completely divorced from my spirituality (… Read more »
Where heaven and earth touch.
My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells.
https://youtu.be/4gZ_tB8gBBs?t=7m20s
Blaximus
February 18, 2018 at 6:42 am
d’accord
The SJW police are in your head – not around here. Thank The Maker You know – JP gets a LOT of criticism for not being Red Pill. And he deserves it (from the Red Pill perspective). However, what he is doing as discussed in the video is so worth while that I’m going to give him a pass. Blue pill seems to work for him. And what can a man do other than describe how he experiences life? Even if he studies other experiences – it will most likely not deeply touch him. Because that is not how he… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0vZhz3sN_E
@Rugby
Fuck George Carlin.
Fuck that tree-hugging geek straight to Hades.
And fuck all your George Carlin-loving friends. They’re in the same camp as the geeks with dicks that supported the Force Awakens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF3iiAfFlPw
Speaking of which they’ve gone and recruited a skinny guy with a British Accent to peddle more Blue-Pill garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkEwUXD2cT8&t=3s
At 4:05 he starts doing the really stupid thing. Perpetuating the myth of the good guy that keeps the Beta factory churning.
Just for Laughsā¦ āMenās Journal, December 2017, Page 134, More Talk, More Sex In relationships lasting a year or longer, one-third of women lose interest in sex for at least three months, as opposed to 15 percent of men, University College London research finds. For 11,500 Brits surveyed, pregnancy, health problems, and age are factors. But womenās sex drive is more sensitive to relationship quality and emotional connection. So if thereās strain, mistrust or even boredom, you may still be into it though she may not. Fortunately, communication can preserve the spark. Talk about how youāre both feeling, and consider… Read more »
re the Carlin video:
The language is:
1. Man; the sentient animal, genus homo. Differentiates from the gods.
2. Human; of man. Nowadays generally confused with man.
3. Werman; a male man.
4. Woman; a female man.*
No need to for neologisms that torture the language, just learn to speak English [insert Pulp Fiction meme here].
*Supplanted queane. Currently has a negative connotation with the traditional spelling, despite its positive connotation with the modern spelling.
Yollo Comanche February 18, 2018 at 9:21 am Re: the Brit. He is running a money machine. He HAS to play to his audience. But his advice is all wrong. He should say “Make eye contact.” That won’t do anything for her interest. It will awaken his – if there is anything to awake. According to a recent survey (posted up thread) about 2/3rds of women are attracted to self confidence. Only about 20% of men have enough of that. Which says that about half of all women will not get what they want. Funny enough the LTR says I’m… Read more »
@Yollo Saw that Brit vid posted on minds the other day by some Blue Pill tool that very clearly thought there was something wrong with the women in the video. “They’re laughing because they don’t take him seriously. They need to take him seriously and listen.” I had to respond, “He’s trying to teach cats to understand dogs. They can’t because they’re cats. And there’s nothing wrong with it.” Cue angry Blue Pills indignant that I acted like I know something they don’t. All I could leave them with was “What do they immediately think about a man they have… Read more »
It would be like trying to sell a PUA seminar to men entitled “Fat Chicks and You: How to Hook That Shit Up, Bro”.
@Nova
I’d never thought of internet commenting as something that could be given up for Lent — right up there with chocolate, wine and so on. But progress marches on. Giving up e-mail wouldn’t be the worst idea either but imagine your inbox after six weeks.
BTW enjoyed your post distinguishing observation vs. praxis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62sr4mu0qlw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j3_iPskjxk
It’s British so you know it’s all natural. Made with real lamb and rice.
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965343439176044545
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965313722884423680
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965343150159028224
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965235458673467393
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965070708601634816
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965019186039681024
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965018401247670272
https://twitter.com/AmirSariaslan/status/964823011965767680
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965015030902083584
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/965017950947192834
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/964977053702369282
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/964943702077489152
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/964925009889083392
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/964925009889083392
https://twitter.com/JuliaCaesar08/status/964796632364707840
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/964873067037188097
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCeBNwBUkcI
https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/964771149887361024
rugby11
February 18, 2018 at 9:35 pm
A comment I left on http://www.alexanderblum.net/2018/02/thoughts-jordan-peterson-interview/
===
āThe Pareto distribution makesā¦ā
The Pareto distribution does not make anything. It is a description of nature.
If you want a deeper read: small differences in ability make big differences in outcome.
When you come up with ideas like āThe Pareto distribution makesā¦ā it is a clue you are not thinking clearly. And that clue may extend to other areas.
The JP interview with Cathy Newman as a shit test. From: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-guest-room/201802/jordan-peterson-knows-what-you-re-thinking The fundamental attribute is the use of arbitrary opinions, often but not necessarily with an intellectual flavor, to provoke. It’s something more akin to a characterological challenge than to an intellectual exchange. And the purpose of it in some sense is to see if youāre foolish enough to engage in the argument itself, even though itās not a real discussion, and to assess whether youāre competent, I suppose, or capable of holding your temper. People who engage in it try to locate themselves ā itās a test. And… Read more »
Sam Botta (@sambotta) February 18, 2018 at 3:40 am “JBP: Non-entity wimp-bag that hates masculinity with little boy voice; not relevant; not a person, rather, a funded propaganda entity that demonizes even the idea of testosterone; nuisance that does not exist; ignore.” Well said. In the long run the false saviours as JBP are more dangerous. At least with FI most men can clearly see the direct assault on their sexuality. But the TradCons persuade men back to the Blue Pilled plantation with false promises of Unicorns and NAWALTs. JBP’s mission is to build better betas and ensure that when… Read more »
a man must be moral, virtuous, intelligent, hard working,
Those things were the differentials that attracted the LTR to me over the other Alphas she was interested in. (note I left off egalitarian). I know because we have discussed it.
So totally writing off Peterson is not correct. He doesn’t have all the pieces of the puzzle. But who does?
The conflict we have now in the US exists because the political system is designed in such a way that the centers of cultural power canāt quite dominate the country politically due to the way the Senate works, the way the electoral college works, and so on, even though they utterly dominate the country culturally through media, entertainment, academia and almost all corporations of any significant size. That creates a massive conflict, and it canāt be resolved peacefully for the time being because the constitution canāt be changed without the approval of 2/3 of the states. Thatās why the left… Read more »
https://townhall.com/columnists/arthurschaper/2018/02/18/jordan-peterson-celebrity-intellectuals-and-the-counsel-of-the-ungodly-n2450813
https://intpolicydigest.org/2018/02/18/jordan-peterson-effect/
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/professor-provides-antidote-to-nihilism-and-identity-politics-1.3394823
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jordan_Peterson_Memes/comments/7xozxf/a_small_animation_of_jordan_peterson/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jordan_Peterson_Memes/comments/7yikk4/lobster_bait/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jordan_Peterson_Memes/comments/7y5ayi/1_lobster/
M Simon There can be addiction without chronic pain. https://youtu.be/cfgvFYtXVJ0 https://youtu.be/Fg2IUBqvAKQ https://youtu.be/83_nykwgSrA The psych today interview was a good read. I wonder if (according to Jungian theory and labeling) a person that has integrated with their “animus’ or “anima” is normal and non confrontational hetrosexual. Or are they even aware of the theory at all? Anectdotally every one I’ve ever met that was critically aware of anima & animus was either a gay dude a termagent woman or a psych student. Another thing lobsters aren’t really like disney characters where they create higherarchys to institute order, rather nature does this… Read more »
rugby11
February 19, 2018 at 10:00 am
From the Townhall link: “that human nature is flawed”
Well no. It is what it is.
boulderhead February 19, 2018 at 12:50 pm You (and Peterson) confuse two different things. Habituation and addiction. When you cure habituation addiction explains the return to drug use. When the pain stops so does “addiction”. When I was writing extensively on the subject I’d have addicts drop in and tell me that I’m correct. Here is a doctor that holds the same view I do : https://acestoohigh.com/2017/05/02/addiction-doc-says-stop-chasing-the-drug-focus-on-aces-people-can-recover/ Now a days I’d add in economic collapse. In any case it is a medical problem made worse by Prohibition. In essence we have people in pain persecuted for trying to do something… Read more »
boulderhead February 19, 2018 at 12:50 pm I believe I have integrated my left and right brain. It did not “cure” my Alpha attitude. It did open me up to a number of senses not normally found in the literature. I can read the LTRs emotions EXACTLY. I tell her what she is thinking/feeling and she never contradicts my evaluation. Ever. I asked her the other day why she thought I could “see” her emotions and she couldn’t (on her own). “You pay attention”. We were playing a dread game and I told her – “You want me to have… Read more »
M Simon
Now that you classify the pain as emotional we are in agreement.
The anima & animus are sexual rather that hemospherical in theory.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freudian-sip/201103/jung-dummies-animus-planet-0
Back in the 80’s, I was intrigued as to why I saw so many drug addicted people in Washington heights in NYC. And why didn’t I see the same levels of obvious drug use and addiction in other places. The old and accepted trope of ” poverty ” just did not make logical sense. And it especially didn’t answer the question of why so much contraband was available to people that really couldn’t even afford it. I spoke to friends in law enforcement, federal and state level, and they had no real answers other than ” containment “. Keep it… Read more »
As soon as enough men down tools and let the wymmyn dig the trenches, do all the construction, work as mechanics, sow & harvest the crops etc etc etc, then we will see feminism completely collapse. As it’s going with the decline in wages, full time jobs etc, that shouldn’t be too far off. A world run by wymmyn with Beta simps in cubicles simply will not work, and will come to a grinding halt in no time at all… The wymmyn will then come-a-running in submissiveness to the few real men left, and we can sit back & watch… Read more »
boulderhead February 19, 2018 at 2:39 pm From the first time I figured it out (about 15 years ago) I knew it was emotional. Like the ACES doctor I always thought it was mainly connected to child abuse. At least in America. We even know it is in part genetic. Only 20% of the population have the genes for long term PTSD. And we know at least most of the genes involved – if not all of them. Most people are not susceptible. Of the 20% who are – only about half get enough trauma to activate it. And for… Read more »
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/more-evidence-that-male-and-female-brains-are-wired-differently Ah. Here is what I was looking for: http://bigthink.com/think-tank/male-and-female-brains-are-wired-differently A study published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences has confirmed what psychological tests have indicated for a long time, that men and women are each better at performing different types of mental tasks. Men excel at spatial tasks, whereas women excel when it comes to memory and intuition. The study concluded that this is due to the amount of neural connections between the left and right sides of the brain in women whereas neural connections in mens’ brains were found within individual hemispheres. In other… Read more »
Until at least 90% of the population at large can be put through some kind of life altering/shattering experiences, science will have a hell of a time figuring out PTSD on a genetic level.
Most people ( fortunately for them ) are never stressed to their individual breaking points, even though they may perceive that they have.
Upside of living in a wealthy society. We are already discussing the downsides here every day.š
According to the article the study linking ACES to addiction is in the process of clinical trial documentation. The wiring of addiction synaps and triggers together with the physiological aspects have been long accepted as facts. From experience a large part does stem from ACES but it would also appear that a large part stems from lack of discipline and structured creativity combined with easy money. Maybe there is a genetic predisposition for being born rich instead of good looking. LOL I still don’t buy the animus, anima terms and definitions, and believe the feelings or whatever stem from conditioning.… Read more »
On the one hand animus y anima is a term to describe a phenomena,on the other hand it becomes an excuse for bizarre gender confusion or sexual missorientation.
I am not talking about the use of hemispheres rather the misuse of the entire brain through misinformation combined with a lack of comprehension and confirmation bias. See blank slate equalism for instance.