A Woman’s Prerogative

prerogative

“A woman talks to one man, looks at a second, and thinks of a third.” – Niti Sataka

Reader/Blogger Ian Ironwood had a really on-point comment about last week’s piece that I’d already considered for the next essay to continue this series:

Excellent post, Rollo. It goes without saying that the Pill and liberalized divorce law was the first step on this path, but few appreciate its logical conclusion. Especially feminism, in the face of evolving technology. Pendulums swing both ways, and the reverse can be devastating.

In particular, your discussion of evolutionary biology/psychology and evolving technologies is spot-on. One element many men (and almost all women) do not appreciate is the social change that will erupt when Vasalgel or one of the similar products/procedures is finally authorized by the FDA. For the uninformed, Vasalgel promises ten baby-free years for a man before it breaks down, and can be removed at any point to get a woman pregnant. It works without messing with your hormones by simply shredding the sperm in the vas deferens. It costs about $1000. One time.

The social implications of this are clear: suddenly for the first time in history, a woman would have to seek a man’s permission to have a child with him. This small, subtle shift will have dramatic consequences, especially as we head into the Age of the Herbivore. When all of those egg-freezing women and their younger, more opportunistic sisters can no longer practice rampant reproductive coercion, then the social balance will shift again, and hard. Men who screw without the shredder are not to be trusted and are demonstrably irresponsible…but men with it are impervious to the traditional biological means of ensuring a commitment. Suddenly we are very much on an even playing field, and everything is back on the table. It will take the conscious will and permission of both parties to have a child, and men in that position will find themselves in a far more powerful spot than they have ever been in.

Finding a suitable father for your kid is hard enough, from a female perspective. Finding one who also sees you as a worthy enough mother for his children to make the conscious decision to remove his birth control is going to be much, much harder. And the prospect of starting all over with a new man as her biological viability evaporates is going to be . . . problematic. We’ll see a much more intense emphasis on the Epiphany phase, and a multi-layered cultural panic as competition increases among women across the board.

The cultural freakout will include more-of-the-same “where did all the good men go?” “manbaby” “dropout loser mother’s basement” frustrated criticism of men; which is why it’s important, from a cultural perspective, that there are men articulating our essential cultural position: marriage, as it stands, no longer serves our interests, and we will select only women of the highest quality to raise our children with – mindfully.

It will be interesting to see how it evolves, but I predict this one little fact alone – independent of the other sexual distractions available to modern man, from internet porn to Tindr to prostitution to robotic sex dolls – will put modern feminism and womanhood in general into a crisis. I look forward to your next few parts.

Despite what a handful of new commenters believe, I have written in the past about the dramatic cultural shift that unilaterally feminine-controlled hormonal birth control has meant to Western culture. I started this by addressing the feminine side of the birth control situation in posts like Fem-Centrism (also an important chapter in The Rational Male) because it offers and confirms for Red Pill men so many examples of how the psychological nature of women interacts with their biological natures:

Sexual Revolution

I got into a hypothetical debate with an online friend as to what it would mean to humanity (and masculinity in particular) if a new method of birth control was developed with the specific and unique ability to allow men to control conception to the same degree women were given with hormonal contraception in the mid-sixties. I thought it interesting that human effort could create reliable contraception for women in the 60’s, yet in 2011 we can map the human genome and yet not figure out how to afford men the same degree of birth control?

Put simply, the feminine imperative will not allow this.

Imagine the social and economic damage to the feminine infrastructure if Prometheus gave such fire to Men? Imagine that balance of control veering back into the masculine; for men to literally have the exclusive choice to fulfill a woman’s sexual strategy or not.

The conversation got heated. Men could never be trusted with such a power! Surely humanity would come to a grinding, apocalyptic end if the feminine sexual strategy was thwarted by reliable male contraception. Societies would be sundered, populations would nosedive, and the nuclear family would be replaced with a neo-tribalism dictated by men’s sexual strategies. Honestly, you’d think the discovery of atomic weapons was on par with such an invention.

The ridiculous, pathetic endemically juvenile and perverse masculinity that 50 years of feminization created could never be trusted to further humanity in pursuing their sex’s inborn imperatives.

Yet, this is precisely the power that was put into the hands of women in the 1960’s and remains today. The threat that male contraception represents to the feminine imperative is one of controlling the framework of which gender’s sexual strategy will be the normative. Prior to the advent of female-exclusive hormonal birth control and the sexual revolution that resulted from it, the gender playing field was level, if not tipped in favor of masculinity due to men’s provisioning being a motivating factor in women achieving their own gender imperative. Latex prophylactics were available in the 40’s, and this may have afforded men a slight advantage, but both parties knew and agreed to the terms of their sexual activity at the time of copulation.

Once feminine-exclusive birth control was convenient and available the locus of control switched to feminine primacy. Her imperative became the normalized imperative. His sexual imperative was only a means to achieving her own, and now the control was firmly placed in favor of feminine hypergamy. Whether in the developing world or in first world nations, the onus of directing the course of humanity fell upon women, and thus the feminine reality evolved into what it is today.

Freelove 2.0

It would appear that if all clinical testing goes according to hopes, Vasalgel will be this new form of unilaterally male-controlled birth control. I am, however, cautiously apprehensive about how accessible this breakthrough in male birth control will actually be. From the research I did for this piece, and coming from the usual feminist suspects, you’d think that Vasalgel would be a Godsend for sex-positive feminism. If I’m a bit skeptical it’s because the usual feminist sources are following the same shortsighted emotionalism that put them into virtually total control of the course of the human species.

Naturally, feminism would like to paint Vasalgel as some equalist responsibility for men. Almost every feminist article I read aboutVasalgel had some exasperated variation of “well, it’s about time men were given some responsibility for birth control” and then citing how difficult it was to remember to take a pill regularly. The other refrain was about how women couldn’t wait to get off the birth control hormones that made them fat, moody or just ornery, and how great it would be to have men be responsible for the convenience of their sex lives – more on that later.

But this is more than a bit facetious for women, because it only illustrates women’s (or feminist writer’s) obliviousness as to how male birth control will affect a base of power the Feminine Imperative has enjoyed for over five generations now. The fact that we’ve had female-controlled hormonal birth control, as well as legal, medically safe, abortion since the mid 60s and we’re only now developing/testing a male-controlled alternative in 2016 should speak volumes about our culture’s feminine-primary priorities.

This idea never occurs to women apparently; at least not publicly. Bear in mind all the development for Vasalgel has taken place almost entirely outside of western cultures (India being the test-bed). It could be that Vasalgel is still in its infancy with regard to a feminine-primary public awareness and women are still caught up in the hedonistically entitled mindset that only speaks to convenience in their sex lives. My guess is that not a lot of critical insight has been given as to how, as Ian and myself have explained, a feminine-primary social order would be affected by men’s far greater control of women’s Hypergamous strategies.

The ‘greater good’ of Vasalgel at this stage is all couched in the hope that it will help end unwanted pregnancies. That sounds like a progressive’s idea of a benefit to society, but at this stage what’s being overlooked is how a new technological advancement will immediately and irrevocably alter the direction of our larger culture.

I spoke to this in last week’s article. The rapid advancement of Vasalgel represents the potential of altering the direction of a social order that’s depended on the presumption of a unilateral control of Hypergamy for almost sixty years now. My guess is that once we get closer to realizing the use of Vasalgel as practical birth control for men the more resistance and legislation will be lobbied against it as the idea of what it could mean to the Feminine Imperative starts to sink in.

Her Prerogative

Now, we have to bring the implications of male-controlled birth control full circle here. There’s been a common idiom about women’s ‘right’ to choice for centuries now – a woman’s prerogative; a woman always has the right to change her mind. I actually looked up where this notion first started and it went as far back as (you guessed it) courtly love of medieval times:

Breach of promise is a common lawtort, abolished in many jurisdictions. It was also called breach of contract to marry,[1] and the remedy awarded was known as heart balm.

From at least medieval times until the early 20th century, a man’s promise of engagement to marry a woman was considered, in many jurisdictions, a legally binding contract. If the man were to subsequently change his mind, he would be said to be in “breach” of this promise and subject to litigation for damages.

The converse of this was seldom true; the concept that “it’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind” had at least some basis in law (though a woman might pay a high social price for exercising this privilege, as explained below)—and unless an actual dowry of money or property had changed hands, a man was only rarely able to recover in a “breach of promise” suit against a woman, were he even allowed to file one.

This is another one of those old books ideas that women playing by the new books of modern times still clung to even after the Sexual Revolution. An important part of men’s Blue Pill Beta conditioning is to always defer to a woman’s judgement and choices no matter how duplicitous they may initially appear. Part of the old books social contract was based on a pre-understanding about what was at stake were a man and woman to come together, have sex and potentially bring a child into the world. Prior to the advent of birth control both sexes were on relatively equal presumptions of risk. A woman’s fickleness, duplicity or even prudence made a woman’s prerogative something pragmatic.

Now we move into an era where women have almost unchallenged, unilateral control of the birthing of the next generations of the human race. As I’ve mentioned before, with safe and legal abortion, feminine-controlled birth control, feminine-primary societal norms, feminine-controlled definitions of rape or harassment, and feminine-controlled legislation of men’s responsibility to fatherhood (irrespective of genetic origin) women’s consolidation on power is nearly complete.

All of these bases of social control revolve around a woman’s control of Hypergamy and the complete exclusion of men’s influence on it, beyond his genetic and provisional qualifications to satisfy it. When we combine the old books idiom of a woman’s right to change her mind with the nearly total control of Hypergamy, we see that the more we progress socially the more evident this feminine base of control is.

All social mandates revolve around satisfying women’s Hypergamous doubts, or allaying or justifying the fear of living with the consequences of them. Even in the current Presidential election we see this dynamic in action with the potential for the first female President.

Changes

In the next post in this series I’ll get into how women’s hindbrains struggle to keep up with the immediate rewards of social media and that the advancement of technology that gratifies their evolved psychological natures. However, for this discussion it’s important to understand that the advancements that have led to women’s social primacy of today are still tenuous. Vasagel could be one catalyst that is a game changer; a challenger not just to our intersexual dynamic, but the power hold women retain in directing Hypergamy and putting the direction of human breeding (in a much larger part) in the control of men.

I find it ironic and fitting that the promise of unrestricted sex which men believed they would enjoy with the advent of women’s hormonal birth control is the same rationale I’m reading from women about Vasagel. What they don’t consider is that this new invention will give men a new male prerogative with regard to who they will or will not start a family with.

I understand that in some ‘sphere communities Vasagel is the ‘big fuck you’ to women for have had such uncontested social control for so long, but to them I would advise not to get too elated too quickly. For the most part the socio-psychological infrastructure that conditions men for the Blue Pill will still exist, and there will always be Betas, even ones with the male prerogative that Vasagel implies, who will still defer to the feminine as their only means to sex and intimacy. The Feminine Imperative is nothing if not fluidly redefining itself to work around challenges to it s power. Vasagel may represent a change (assuming men are allowed to have it or can afford it) in our intersexual dynamics, but it will take some time before there is real change in our social dynamics as a result of it.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Culum I lost my shit when one girl I was working on started talking about all the different guys she’s been fucking. “Lost my shit” meaning I didn’t say anything stupid, and didn’t show that it fazed me at all, but internal-Game wise, it did faze me. I have SOME experience with women, but not a whole lot, and that makes not pedestalizing pretty hard. I was talking to scrib on Skype and he told me he didn’t know what to make of her telling me about these dudes she was hooking up with. One thought he had was… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . one girl I was working on started talking about all the different guys she’s been fucking.”

Secret Society membership test.

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@kfg Forge But it isn’t a one time deal. She can fill in the blank spot on the birth certificate any time she likes, so you not only have to get her to refuse to name the father, but you have to get her to either hold to that, or name some other, when you break up. WITH retroactive child support obligation, if named as the father… so, your risk just keeps going up as time goes on… AND you have NO rights to the kid if you are not named as the father… @Sentient HABD and (i just thought… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Culum Also getting used to being more emotionally independent. Incel is a path to co-dependency. I’m still there. Not acting like a man yet. Learning Game is tough because it requires you to focus 100% on women, and how you’re dealing with them, when ideally women are only a *complement* to your life, not the focus of it. Part of me is like shit, I feel like a chump for even giving a fuck about women. And I’m tired of it even though I only have such a small amount of experience. But the other part of me knows… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ kfg

I had a feeling that’s what that was. Just an invitation to fuck. Join in with the rest of the guys on the ride.

Dropped the ball on that one. Part of me knows I dropped it because I knew that’s what it was. One of my main problems is closing. Even girls I’ve successfully Gamed to the point of them wanting to fuck me, I choke when the rubber meets the road. Or pussy, more literally.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@HABD: “WITH retroactive child support obligation, if named as the father… so, your risk just keeps going up as time goes on… ” The scenario assumes live in, white picket fence, support until breakup. It doesn’t eliminate the risk, but it does mitigate it. “… AND you have NO rights to the kid if you are not named as the father…” Brought up in the original thread. It’s the big Catch-22. You can only be a father if you’re not the father, but if you’re not the father . . . And mind you even that only works until she… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I had a feeling that’s what that was. Just an invitation to fuck. Join in with the rest of the guys on the ride.”

If you are a member of the society, or at least a potential member. You would have to react like she was just talking shop.

Which is what she was doing. To her it’s just talking about her day at the office. If you react that way, you work in the same sort of office. If you don’t, you’re not part of the profession, just another mundane.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Softek “Part of me is like shit, I feel like a chump for even giving a fuck about women. And I’m tired of it even though I only have such a small amount of experience. It helps to know this is not easy. Even trying this shit puts you in an extreme minority. Right now I am in the MAJORITY, just skating by and not doing what I want and being an AFC.” Part of you is trying to decide whether (in the pain you are going through) you want to play the role of victim or whether you want… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ HABD

Lol. You ALWAYS make my damn day when you show up!!!!!

NewbieOnPoint
NewbieOnPoint
6 years ago

Sara Jessica parker on the possibility of a third sex & the city:

comment image

Saw this on Facebook. Guess at which side of the wall the chick who shared it stands?

lol

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“But the other part of me knows my skills are not up to par, and I’m happier having sex in my life with real women than jacking off to porn all the time. And part of agency is being skilled with women. If you want something and are unable to attain it because of incompetence, you don’t have true agency.” @Softek I know whatchya mean. It’s tempting to want to go back to basing your self confidence on external shit and ignorant beliefs. Not that I even could if I wanted to at this point. Going out and staring the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

And what does Matthew Broderick think of the whole thing?

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ HABD Re: The movement to help younger guys that are married ( or even in ” serious ” Ltr’s ), I honestly can’t take any singular credit for this. My immediate social circle includes about a dozen ” OMG’s” that want to help younger guys navigate relationships by minimizing the larger cultural influences. What we’ve seen over our lives is that it is absolutely possible because the Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings and *name your favorite gang here * do it every day, all day, forever. We concentrate on supporting the men because there are no other support systems available… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

hmmm….comment disappeared.

Hate when that happens

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

shit.

Oh well. I’m not re-typing all of that.

Lol.

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Blax

comment image

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@kfg “The scenario assumes live in, white picket fence, support until breakup. It doesn’t eliminate the risk, but it does mitigate it.” keep your receipts…lol… good luck! ———– @Blaximus “@ HABD Lol. You ALWAYS make my damn day when you show up!!!!!” [cracks knuckles…] well, i guess my work here is done…lol… still have any idea on HOW a man (like joe the cop) could wife up your god-daughter in 2016 and still have it work out?…you know, looong term…lol bc that’s what YaReally is still working on… THAT cohort of girls… (and i’m assuming (yes, i know…lol) that SHE… Read more »

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Softek kfg’ spot on. Big surprise 😀 I had my first moment ‘getting’ this somewhat recently. It’s a huge relief when you do, a lot of things fall into place. Girls conceal how sexual they are from most men, so when you ping a girl as being a sexual guy and she starts testing the waters it can be a bit disconcerting at first. Your newbie instincts want to be horrified/resentful that this girl you’re trying to bang has sex w other men, it’s the scarcity talking. I remember seeing the fork in the road; she brought up sex she’d… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ HABD I had a looonnnggg comment directed at you that vanished into thin air. It had ALL of the answers we seek. Lol. Not really. ” still have any idea on HOW a man (like joe the cop) could wife up your god-daughter in 2016 and still have it work out?…you know, looong term…lol” I’d advised Joe the Cop to move along, nothing to see here. I love my god-daughter to death, but she is not suitable for any man that is looking for any kind of adult relationship at this point in her life. I’d post up a… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

SJF

Everything and everyone matters.

Who was it that said he didn’t care about 90% of men, again?

Wasn’t me. Dude.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Habd

Nice thoughtful reasoned snark free response… You must be an OMG. Busted!

But your reasoning leaves out the first and the last word on culture in your life and home.

You.

Busy next few days will circle back to you on this.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@forge Girls conceal how sexual they are from most men, so when you ping a girl as being a sexual guy and she starts testing the waters it can be a bit disconcerting at first. Your newbie instincts want to be horrified/resentful that this girl you’re trying to bang has sex w other men, it’s the scarcity talking. lollolol i know that feel tho for me it was more talking to all these suuuper reserved asian girls that are hard as fuck to pull, and then this one chick is explicitly talking about sex and masturbating to porn lol. so… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@forge @habd

did a lot of stuff on my last FR, would like your input.

https://therationalmale.com/2016/09/13/stalling-for-time/comment-page-3/#comment-170200

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

@SFJ Great post. This little nugget deserves an entire post of its own: “Blue Pill tendencies that you have not completely purged are giving you tinges of anxiety, because they were so pervasive and indoctrinated in the old you.” This whole idea of constantly checking and thinking instead of doing and feeling is a hold-over to that concept of fear of shame and judgement. It’s mind over matter really but takes time to dismantle—like deleting an APP you don’t use anymore. These Blue Pill defense mechanisms don’t serve a guy well but we cling to them due to familiarity. The… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@hank not a lot of time, but you’ve been workin your ass off on this shit… I’ll make time for that!…lol overall good sets… on the escalator 3 set, that awkward feeling was FI pushing on you. girls don’t care if it’s not logical right? and nice improv…lol ANY shit testing is an IOI… YaReally has a bunch of IHAB responses in his archive. have at least 3 solid go to responses in your pocket for these situs = optimize this guaranteed IOI by sexualizing the interaction with her as chasing you/thinking about sex. bc you KNOW it’s coming =… Read more »

cheupez
6 years ago

I doubt vasalgel will be of any significance. Men in the west who do not want to sire kids will still continue to pay for the kids of the 10% “jerks” who are swinging their unwrapped third legs all over. Whether this paying comes via “thirsty beta married” or “taxing the rich”, the men will pay whichever way, vsalgel or not. Interesting discussion about Brad and Jolie (?sp) earlier on the comments thread. I was not familiar with the word chode until I accidentally ran into the manosphere. And without even looking it up, I immediately recognized the meaning of… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

What good reason is there for well-off men who’re educated and have fairly stable jobs to seek out opiates?”

They’re bored, they can afford opiates, and it’s easier than dancing. You get an opiate (oxytocin) high when you dance for a while.

Colbert
Colbert
6 years ago

@ Cheupez, “A woman who is marriageable has to be a chode (fala) and has to remain one through out the marriage”. But that’s the game women play with men. Unmarriageable women are cluster “H” (for hypergamy) if they don’t have the daddy patch. Most women nowadays don’t have the daddy patch and are therefore cluster H but many know to hide it and wear the mask and to not let the mask slip at least for a while. Pretending to be marriageable to chodes who can’t recognize that they are getting played by an unmarriageable cluster H woman has… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

I was working yesterday and waiting for a buddy to pick up the profits, so I went into a nearby bar. Chatted up a couple of guys and one bought a beer for me. For some reason the girl bartender (a 7) wanted me to guess her age. It was in the flow of convo, but I forget what led to it. I guessed late 30s because she had a kid who was 9, figuring that she got married around 30. She also wasn’t wearing blush, so she looked older. She was late 20s. The bartender was annoyed. I explained… Read more »

Pinelero
Pinelero
6 years ago

AJ’s “silver bullet” (i.e false abuse accusations taken as true without proof because golden uterus) attempt to alienate Brad from his kids and to get divorce leverage are already front and center news in fathers rights groups and women’s groups that advocate for shared parenting. This case may be an eye-opener for some into the workings of family law and courts bias against men for the sake of the divorce lawyer/government agency funding complex that has created a new system of debtors prisons and government wage-slaves. BP most likely will not fall into the debtor prison and wage slavery that… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Colbert

Well said and well done.

Kudos.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@Blax

I had a looonnnggg comment directed at you that vanished into thin air.

It had ALL of the answers we seek.

Sign me up for the cult Church of Blax. Here are all my worldly possessions. I beleeeeeve. hah

theasdgamer
6 years ago

hmmm, the strikeout tag didn’t work…I had it applied to “cult”

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Forge – Re: The Singularity. Debunked nonsense which merely reveals the author’s ignorance of economics. A brilliant friend of mine (an armchair scientist type, who used to code and is now in management), came at me with it. So I did my reading and went back to him and asked: Do you think the nano-fabricating equipment will be free? Do you think that access to it will be free? Do you think the raw materials will be free? The first fallacy here is actually a common one, which is the idea that price is driven by costs. I continued to… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

SBFR: So one of my old massage friendgirls from a couple of years back circled around and I had a weak moment so over she came. It’s been a while and well, a man has to eat. This had always been a barebacked fucktoy setup, a sidegirl/boy when she doesn’t have a serious BF and i throw her some cash sort of thing. he initiated it during a massage and according to her i was the only guy she went there with. I won’t go into why i believe her but I got to know her quite well and think… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
6 years ago

@ Blax, “Well said and well done.” “Kudos.” Thanks Blax! Just to play devils advocate with myself. I never believed in Santa Claus (I grew up southern baptist, BTW, but never bought into it). That did not help me w/o learning the importance of being positive and DPA. Even after taking the RP I was having issues despite all of the great theory behind hypergamy and evolutionary psychology. Kudos to all of you guys for helping me to understand the importance of both the theory and it’s clinical “infield” applications which includes actively working through your issues for positive “infield… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

I still haven’t found a way to link to posts by Ian Ironwood on his blog to the comments section here in WordPress (Any suggestions from Ian or Rollo on this is appreciated.) Ian Ironwood in the OP: “The cultural freakout will include more-of-the-same “where did all the good men go?” “manbaby” “dropout loser mother’s basement” frustrated criticism of men; which is why it’s important, from a cultural perspective, that there are men articulating our essential cultural position: marriage, as it stands, no longer serves our interests, and we will select only women of the highest quality to raise our… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Imagine that “you” can be transmitted digitally? What would it mean to not be bound by corporeality?”

It would mean that the dogs, robots and ants inherit the Earth.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Usually links to articles on his site (The Red Pill Room) end up disappearing or in moderation.

So I will post the link in a comment just following this and also send it to you via email.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Well, that did link.

I think the issue is that the address at his blog usually doesn’t use the preface of http (colon and two forward slashes) and if that is not included, then WordPress won’t automatically use it as a link.

anon
anon
6 years ago

scribblerg: “The point of this disquisition? The discomfiture we all feel in this constrained and thinned out economy is due to macro factors, not technology putting all the “buggy whip” manufacturers out of business. With far less intervention, and managed trade (the only sensible position a nation can take is managed trade, and the U.S. has always managed trade anyway) that takes care to not dislodge labor thoughtlessly, well, we’d be a far more wealthy nation.” In my online discussion experience, there haven’t been many self-described “free marketers” who agree with the concept of “managed trade”. I myself agree completely.… Read more »

samurai
samurai
6 years ago

nice

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ scrib ” When you fling open the doors to what at the time was largely slave-like labor, with desperate people who were given permission to escape the impoverished rural areas of China, and let the govt and military own and run it, well, what did you think would happen? Free markets of course exploited the delta between labor rates. But in the past when we did this with say Japan, it was much more gradual, and even then we hit them with tariffs on semiconductors and other goods. And the size of the labor pool was not on the… Read more »

anon
anon
6 years ago

“Another concern re: China is the outright theft of copyrighted materials. The rush to build factories in china to take advantage of the cheaper labor has in effect given them access to producing copyrighted items and selling them on the world markets, there by undercutting our own.” That and massive counterfeiting. Chinese faulty counterfeit products are ubiquitous. It’s essentially impossible to not buy Chinese, even if you buy a high end Bosch “German” refrigerator or “British” Doc Martins, or an expensive “Italian” Benetton jacket, they either have components made in China or are entirely made in China. Officially only 81… Read more »

anon
anon
6 years ago

Brad described the wife he left for Jolie (Jennifer Aniston) as “boring”.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

“Brad is a pacifist,’ says one of his oldest friends. ‘He always shied away from confrontations with Angelina and is a devoted father. He is the one who plays with the children, not her.” ” He has always said he wants to take the moral high ground. ‘Whenever they have had “sell the house” arguments before, he has always pressed for them to go into mediation, divide their assets amicably, and agree to share the custody of the children before announcing to the world that they had gone their separate ways. ‘That’s why Brad feels so bereft and betrayed now.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

comment image

Lmao.

Se7en is still one of my all time favorite films.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Okay, okay. Enough shitting on Brad.

I only feel a little bad for him because I feel badly for any man blindsided by divorce when they’ve done every ( blue pill ) thing that they could think of to avoid it.

Brad chose poorly. Very poorly. But what reference point could he have had?

I’ll bet comfortably that Brad has never vetted a broad in his entire life.

Now, let’s pay attention to see if we can discern whether he will learn anything from this.

…. Paging George Clooney….Paging George Clooney….

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ stuff

I sometimes sing this while mowing the lawn.

Do not ask me why, but every since I saw the movie, the song just stuck on me. Lol. Hell, it’s a bad assed tune….for bluegrass.

I’m going to petition ZZ Top to do a cover of it.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“That post is ancient…” So is Mystery Method, the book of Pook, writings by Shark, Franco and Joseph W. South. New agey Deida, with his yogia-ish stuff is dated also. But pushing new stuff without the old classic manosphere fundamental stuff is leaving some guys in the dust. I’m not sure what ancient has to do with it. The Best of Year One here on TRM is the best red pill literature ever. Some guys are not getting traction in the manophere, as evidenced by the lack of personal agency and whining. I want guys to be positive and optimistic… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

For Brad:

stuffinbox
6 years ago

I always admire a gal,that will show some flesh but that Angelina J always looked to me like one hell of a mean streak..It is as if she was born geneticaly mean AWALT but some are worse than others.Just sayin.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Rollo I actually listened live to the Obsidian show. It was a total coincidence about the GLO question at the end (Susan Walsh and all), which I didn’t hear your response (because the live end went dead). No relevance at all of stirring up Aunt Giggles ghost to me posting. No ulterior motives. It was all me bringing up a well written essay with the thoughts of: -Brad and Angelina. WTF is going on there? She was a shitty choice for raising six children on a whim for a guy like Brad Pitt who got with her because of her… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@kfg Ms. Headstrong Angelina is: In·trac·ta·bleˌ (adjective) hard to control or deal with. synonyms: unmanageable, uncontrollable, difficult, awkward, troublesome, demanding, burdensome (of a person) difficult; stubborn. synonyms: stubborn, obstinate, obdurate, inflexible, headstrong, willful, unbending, unyielding, uncompromising, unaccommodating, uncooperative, difficult, awkward, perverse, contrary, pigheaded, stiff-necked She’s pretty well down the yellow brick lane of doing away with Brad in the Female stages of manipulation. Acquiring a Noah’s Arc full of children, putting him to work and then generating contempt in order to get rid of him in order to move on with self determination (where ever that may lead her badder… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
6 years ago

@ SJF,

Thanks for your posts.

@ Rollo,

Cluster “H” and cluster “B”. The former has a filter but is lacking a patch and the latter is missing both. AJ seems more like cluster “H”, just a more extreme version of it.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

STUFF

“that Angelina J always looked to me like one hell of a mean streak”

Peel the onion for both Brad and Angie and you will find father issues at the center…

stuffinbox
6 years ago

Sentient

The thing about issues,after a certain age they become the responsibility of the holder…..
Pass the tissues I have issues,LOL.

A large number of Daddy issues are inherited from the mother[alpha widow with a grudge] and instilled into children from a young age.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Stuff

Also note the flashpoint is the adoptee Maddox.

Paternity, identity, etc. Etc.

Big id
ISsues

stuffinbox
6 years ago

Sentient

Haven’t read the article.
Here is my understanding.

Issues=resentment=victim mentality=anger=power addiction=retaliation=victim.
</script<

How do we break free from the whirlwind?denial?acceptance?forgiveness?

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Anon and Blax – Nothing in what I said should be taken to imply that I don’t think govt can play an important role in occupational safety etc. But having worked in a warehouse and as a “tin knocker” and in many restaurants etc. as a young man, I can tell the govt goes way past what is necessary every time wrt safety and even hygiene (cooking while wearing plastic gloves is absurd). It’s bad enough that we have to live with that. But the very notion that labor should be privileged under the law has nothing to do with… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Update in my HB9ish project. So after a misbegotten sexual encounter I realized she’s wall-hitting and changing lanes and very confused. I was going to cut and paste the email she sent me here but one can search and figure things so I won’t do it verbatim. You won’t believe what she told me. She actually said, “you don’t put me up on a pedestal”. She castigated me for not pursuing her. She criticized me essentially for not being a beta schlubb, and that’s cuz that’s the category I was always in for her. The setup was supposed to be… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Blaximus
“I’ll bet comfortably that Brad has never vetted a broad in his entire life.”

Now if only we could have a discussion that helps narrow down a guide for men to pro-actively vet for red flags instead of having that discussion squashed by overly sensitive OMGs who just want to brag about how much better than other men they are, instead of actually helping their fellow man and future generations of men who don’t and won’t have the luxury they had of having anyone teaching them how to vet properly.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Ya Really:

You don’t have a training problem. You have a scale problem.

anon
anon
6 years ago
hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@yareally Now if only we could have a discussion that helps narrow down a guide for men to pro-actively vet for red flags instead of having that discussion squashed by overly sensitive OMGs who just want to brag about how much better than other men they are lol I almost feel like we need nested comments just for this shit lol. Have a “NO OMGS ALLOWED” flag lol. To me its pretty simple — OMG were raised from birth to be masculine, and grew up in a more pro marriage environment. Nowadays, guys are raised to be pussies and the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Hank:

The marriage topic is a dead horse. The current topic is how Joe the Plumber can get and keep a baby mama for long enough to be a baby daddy, without getting his life royally shafted in the process.

HowlingManTodd
HowlingManTodd
6 years ago
hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@kfg The current topic is how Joe the Plumber can get and keep a baby mama for long enough to be a baby daddy, without getting his life royally shafted in the process exactly, marriage 2.0. That’s what I am talking about. In times past you’d just get married, but now guys are looking to get the benefits of marriage without getting legally married. So your scenario is exactly what I am talking about — that’s marriage 2.0 @pua eh, nothing today. was hoping last week wasn’t just a fluke, but it was. Last week I just lucked out by… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Marriage is indeed not the issue. Nor is monogamy. Nor are OMG’s actually a problem. The OMG’s know Stoicism, whereas the non-OMG’s seem want to run to the open field of pussy on the football field and not get tackled on the the route to the touchdown. The old set of books 1.0 was not actually practiced by us OMG’s in light of the FI and social conventions since the 1970’s. And a man would be a fool to have subscribed to the new set of books 2.0. (2.0 is equalist and results in watered down 50/50 relationships with resistance… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Heh, via Rollo’s tweet, Tanner Guzy, OMG:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDwL_eXapAY

What are you going to do about it (the decline)?

Yeah, we are not actually against the younger tribe. Really.

YaReally
6 years ago


“You want to know how to vet, ask a guy who vetted well.”

We’ve been trying here but all we get is those guys laughing at guys who need help and didn’t have guys to learn from, or them getting butthurt and going “I WAS gonna tell you but now I’m not gonna cuz my feels are hurt, but next week I’ll complain that none of you want to hear my old man opinion on anything even though when you DO ask I don’t actually contribute anything”.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Yareally We’ve been trying here but all we get is those guys laughing at guys who need help and didn’t have guys to learn from, or them getting butthurt and going “I WAS gonna tell you but now I’m not gonna cuz my feels are hurt, but next week I’ll complain that none of you want to hear my old man opinion on anything even though when you DO ask I don’t actually contribute anything”. LOL. Give me a fucking break… You post 10k words of snarky Internet Hero games amidst 500 words of genuine stuff, and now you cry… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Re: Vetting – All I’m gonna say is this. The lion tamer only has to fuck up one day to get mawled…Not weighing in on getting married or not, I can’t figure out my own life, let alone someone else’s. Here’s a lion tamer who got quite a surprise.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW_x-2MXrkI&w=560&h=315%5D

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Ya Really You’ve been around a few women. What are your instincts about vetting for a child bearing woman? There is a reason Rollo doesn’t lay out prescriptions. It has to do wotj unique circumstances of each man. Child rearing from my perspective takes fortitude, mindset, male purpose and LTR Game. Despite your false flag, I am on your side. You have skills to take it to the next level. But it entails a change in attitiude. And that attitude is definitely not a fuck LTRs attitude. That next level takes being more comfortable with risk tnan does PUA–which is… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“LTR 3.0 is where it is at.”

This.

@Ya Really:

http://www.kehinde.me/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/malcolm_gladwell_quotes_outliers.png

YaReally
6 years ago


“That next level takes being more comfortable with risk”

For what benefit that can’t be gotten without the same level of risk?

And vetting is the opposite of risk-taking. Risk-taking would be NOT vetting.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Yeah, and the solution to risk mitigation is not to ride the tiger or play with lions

There are actually venues and choices that are not strictly feral.

I’ve observed plenty of feral behavior at home and in the wild. It is certainly not half predictable.

YaReally
6 years ago

@Sentient
“Next time why don’t you start out in a genuine way?”

lol I did in the original thread and multiple times within it. So did a few others. But the second anyone mentions marriage around here the OMGs lose their shit and rant about feels and take everything personal when no one was talking about them.

YaReally
6 years ago

@hank
“The current topic is how Joe the Plumber can get and keep a baby mama for long enough to be a baby daddy, without getting his life royally shafted in the process

exactly, marriage 2.0. That’s what I am talking about. In times past you’d just get married, but now guys are looking to get the benefits of marriage without getting legally married. So your scenario is exactly what I am talking about — that’s marriage 2.0”

This lol Nice and simple.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

We are past marriage and monogamy. We agree it does not matter. Re: risk. It is actually about taking more risk rather than mitigating all risk. But it takes a subtle distinction in Optionality. Which implies low down-side and high upside. Mitigating all risk implies limiting upside. If you want really want to understand this, perhaps you can actually read a book: Antifragile by Nassim Taleb. There are subtle distinctions in risk behavior with LTR’s and children. And it has nothing to do with “Married”. KFG’s Malcolm Gladwell (who is a douchey writer) quote has to do with what Mystery… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“And vetting is the opposite of risk-taking. Risk-taking would be NOT vetting.”

You weren’t paying attention when it was pointed out that there is a difference between risk assessment and gambling.

“exactly, marriage 2.0.”

No. Marriage 2.0 is what you are up against, the enemy. Occupier really, as that war has already been fought, and lost. Your choice now is between joining Vichy or joining the resistance.

“Can’t we just be Free French in occupied territory?” is right out. It doesn’t work that way. Show your papers or be shot.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Forge, I doubt the Singularity from a different direction. First, although I’m not a computer scientist, I have some understanding of computability; I know the difference between problems that can be computed in polynomial time and those that take nonpolynomial time. Second, all the nerds that have shoved Singularity at me are very insular people. They don’t really understand what is involved in putting gasoline in their car or electricity in the wire. I have had friends on rigs in the oil patch, I know what an active drilling rig looks like, and it does not lend itself to automation.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“that’s marriage 2.0” “This lol Nice and simple.” Everyone knows that Marriage 2.0 doesn’t work. It is a fools game. Marriage 2.0 is Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. Their marriage two years ago was the beginning of their end. Marriage 2.0 is the walk away strategy for the woman. It is implied in the process. The woman holds all the cards in this process. Cats are not dogs. Men are not women. They entities are not equal. They are complementary. With masculine/feminine polarity. This entails sexual polarity and the spark that generates desire in the man and the woman. And… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scribbs

It’s also 100% true that the ComIntern and the Soviet International were deeply in bed with Communist Party USA, and actively sought to drive this division in our society by providing direct support to the AFL, the CIO and many other unions.

Also the the environmentalists… with disastrous effect.

some great posts from you on this stuff.

BTW – I love how the equalist lie is slowly starting to be uncovered here at TRM…

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“But it takes a subtle distinction in Optionality. Which implies low down-side and high upside.” And there we come back to the issue of scale. PUA: Requires many trials to get good. There are many opportunities for trial. The consequences of failure are low. Vetting a Baby Mama: Requires many trials to get good. There are few opportunities for trial. The consequences of failure are high. ” . . . Malcolm Gladwell (who is a douchey writer . . .” Well, at least he looks the part, and If you follow a blind squirrel, he’ll probably drop whatever nut he’s… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@kfg Make no mistake, Malcolm Gladwell is a delight to read. I read Outliers and Blink. Both were superbly entertaining and insightful. The books are feel good and inspiring to an guy like me. But his critics get him for “correlations not being from causations”. I’m neutral on that, but see where he takes literary liberties with readers minds. I don’t care. He’s fun and adds value. http://www.cjr.org/the_observatory/the_gladwellian_debate.php Mr. Gladwell enjoys a reputation for translating social science into actionable insights. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304713704579093090254007968 The consequences of failure of PUA are low, because any PUA artist knows going in to limit his risks.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Should have posted this weeks ago.

Here are two postings from 2010 on “Interviewing a prospective wife” by Dalrock. They are primarily oriented towards Christians, but not exclusively, and yeah they are 6 years old but still some useful stuff especially in the second part.

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/interviewing-a-perspective-wife-part-i-should-you-open-a-position/

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/interviewing-a-prospective-wife-part-ii/

This could be a starting point for a useful discussion, for those who actually want to help other men solve problems. AMOG / status preeners won’t get it, but that’s not my problem.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

YaReally Sentient HABD Wala Scray Tom Hank and the PUA Gang Sat night solo big club. Was just completely exhausted from burning the candle at both ends recently…just wanted to get into bed but forced myself to go out. But I was so zapped all I could do was sit in a corner – not even walk around or approach. Not approach anxiety just near zero energy levels. Glad I at least went out though and didn’t just stay at home. I did do a few approaches – some minor interesting points: Opened a girl in the coat check queue… Read more »

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@hank Fix your spellcheck if I have to read about ONE MORE ‘blakc girl’ I swear to god Read your FR. You’re taking good action and analyzing the aftermath well, there’s a few places here and there where this or that PUA tech could help, but ya have the basics really solid. Two things I can add. First, the set with Zoe Dechanel girl. I get that this partly was lack of interest on your part, but…. These low-energy girls need a bit of time to work into their brains. They tend to be repressed and closed-off from their own… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Blaximus, regarding Puerto Rico, I explicitly made the point that the middle class matters. The linemen, the switchyard maintenance personnel, those who run the generating plants, they’re all typically middle class types. They used to come from stable families. Now, not so much. Increasing the risk of marriage makes stable families harder to form, right? The insular UMC attitude that they can live in their gated communities and ignore 90% of men is remarkably stupid. It is the opposite of a long-term way of thinking. I won’t go into PR politics but will point out that maintenance is to a… Read more »

anon
anon
6 years ago

How a person treats those she has no need for (no need to impress, no need to be polite, and so forth) will tell you just about everything you need to know about her real personal character.
(fwiw, this is true of both men and women)

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Stringerbell Saw your texting FR last thread. Basically what you’re running in to is the fact that, in 2016, texting is a poor way to develop attraction or even to catch attention. And this goes triple for any girl you haven’t slept with yet. One of those girls (sorry don’t remember which Is which I read it a few days past but it was quite clear) you managed to develop good attraction from, and you’re getting a much easier time from her – happy-sounding texts, working with you to arrange a meetup etc. the other girls just don’t play along.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@hank

After blowing myself out today I gave this a watch, super simple overview on the ‘big view’ of daygame:

http://youtu.be/NflpLg1C9-8

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

Thanks to everyone replying re: the A.T.O.M. book; it’s not really my area so I’m gonna take a bit of time to unpack them (esp Scibb’s dt my relative ignorance of economics). I find it interesting because it’s a futurist model that uses step-by-step reasoning based on current economics rather than ‘surely tech will continue to rise exponentially’ hand waving like AI Foom and its ilk.

(Not that hard AI takeoff is impossible, it’s just impossible to say if it’ll happen imho)

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@YaReally / PUA So there was something about a set I had that didn’t quite grok with me. I was downtown in the club/bar district. Went there after a farm party, I was dressed ragged and smelled like bonfire smoke lol no-one cared. If anything it was a built-in stack, I have a lot of DHV stories from that place. I was tired and a bit ill so I didn’t have much energy to approach much but was going for it anyways. My subcomms were excellent for some reason, I was chill and positive, girls were giving a lot of… Read more »

Tom
Tom
6 years ago

@Culum >”our group was in a dark corner of the bar, I had my hand around her on her ass and she actually hiked up her skirt in the back (no one else could see – they could only see my arm was around her) and she put my hand on her bare ass and was squeezing it. A bit later, I was joking around with her (I’m totally nonjudgmental with her btw – it’s not an act, but I’m always like “Yeah that sounds interesting..maybe you should try sleeping with this guy..he sounds like he’ll be good in bed”… Read more »

Forge the Sky
6 years ago

To expand on the above – I’m getting a bit of a vibe that if this is the girl being flirty/sexual with me the aggression means that she is pretty dark and feral sexually – likes abuse, force, or some such and is trying to convey that to me – but I’m just not sure. Most of the girls I’ve been with have – well I mean typically they like dominance but – typically haven’t been overtly the ‘choke me and call me a slut’ types, so I’m considering that I’m just missing signals girls like that might be throwing… Read more »

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