A Woman’s Prerogative

prerogative

“A woman talks to one man, looks at a second, and thinks of a third.” – Niti Sataka

Reader/Blogger Ian Ironwood had a really on-point comment about last week’s piece that I’d already considered for the next essay to continue this series:

Excellent post, Rollo. It goes without saying that the Pill and liberalized divorce law was the first step on this path, but few appreciate its logical conclusion. Especially feminism, in the face of evolving technology. Pendulums swing both ways, and the reverse can be devastating.

In particular, your discussion of evolutionary biology/psychology and evolving technologies is spot-on. One element many men (and almost all women) do not appreciate is the social change that will erupt when Vasalgel or one of the similar products/procedures is finally authorized by the FDA. For the uninformed, Vasalgel promises ten baby-free years for a man before it breaks down, and can be removed at any point to get a woman pregnant. It works without messing with your hormones by simply shredding the sperm in the vas deferens. It costs about $1000. One time.

The social implications of this are clear: suddenly for the first time in history, a woman would have to seek a man’s permission to have a child with him. This small, subtle shift will have dramatic consequences, especially as we head into the Age of the Herbivore. When all of those egg-freezing women and their younger, more opportunistic sisters can no longer practice rampant reproductive coercion, then the social balance will shift again, and hard. Men who screw without the shredder are not to be trusted and are demonstrably irresponsible…but men with it are impervious to the traditional biological means of ensuring a commitment. Suddenly we are very much on an even playing field, and everything is back on the table. It will take the conscious will and permission of both parties to have a child, and men in that position will find themselves in a far more powerful spot than they have ever been in.

Finding a suitable father for your kid is hard enough, from a female perspective. Finding one who also sees you as a worthy enough mother for his children to make the conscious decision to remove his birth control is going to be much, much harder. And the prospect of starting all over with a new man as her biological viability evaporates is going to be . . . problematic. We’ll see a much more intense emphasis on the Epiphany phase, and a multi-layered cultural panic as competition increases among women across the board.

The cultural freakout will include more-of-the-same “where did all the good men go?” “manbaby” “dropout loser mother’s basement” frustrated criticism of men; which is why it’s important, from a cultural perspective, that there are men articulating our essential cultural position: marriage, as it stands, no longer serves our interests, and we will select only women of the highest quality to raise our children with – mindfully.

It will be interesting to see how it evolves, but I predict this one little fact alone – independent of the other sexual distractions available to modern man, from internet porn to Tindr to prostitution to robotic sex dolls – will put modern feminism and womanhood in general into a crisis. I look forward to your next few parts.

Despite what a handful of new commenters believe, I have written in the past about the dramatic cultural shift that unilaterally feminine-controlled hormonal birth control has meant to Western culture. I started this by addressing the feminine side of the birth control situation in posts like Fem-Centrism (also an important chapter in The Rational Male) because it offers and confirms for Red Pill men so many examples of how the psychological nature of women interacts with their biological natures:

Sexual Revolution

I got into a hypothetical debate with an online friend as to what it would mean to humanity (and masculinity in particular) if a new method of birth control was developed with the specific and unique ability to allow men to control conception to the same degree women were given with hormonal contraception in the mid-sixties. I thought it interesting that human effort could create reliable contraception for women in the 60’s, yet in 2011 we can map the human genome and yet not figure out how to afford men the same degree of birth control?

Put simply, the feminine imperative will not allow this.

Imagine the social and economic damage to the feminine infrastructure if Prometheus gave such fire to Men? Imagine that balance of control veering back into the masculine; for men to literally have the exclusive choice to fulfill a woman’s sexual strategy or not.

The conversation got heated. Men could never be trusted with such a power! Surely humanity would come to a grinding, apocalyptic end if the feminine sexual strategy was thwarted by reliable male contraception. Societies would be sundered, populations would nosedive, and the nuclear family would be replaced with a neo-tribalism dictated by men’s sexual strategies. Honestly, you’d think the discovery of atomic weapons was on par with such an invention.

The ridiculous, pathetic endemically juvenile and perverse masculinity that 50 years of feminization created could never be trusted to further humanity in pursuing their sex’s inborn imperatives.

Yet, this is precisely the power that was put into the hands of women in the 1960’s and remains today. The threat that male contraception represents to the feminine imperative is one of controlling the framework of which gender’s sexual strategy will be the normative. Prior to the advent of female-exclusive hormonal birth control and the sexual revolution that resulted from it, the gender playing field was level, if not tipped in favor of masculinity due to men’s provisioning being a motivating factor in women achieving their own gender imperative. Latex prophylactics were available in the 40’s, and this may have afforded men a slight advantage, but both parties knew and agreed to the terms of their sexual activity at the time of copulation.

Once feminine-exclusive birth control was convenient and available the locus of control switched to feminine primacy. Her imperative became the normalized imperative. His sexual imperative was only a means to achieving her own, and now the control was firmly placed in favor of feminine hypergamy. Whether in the developing world or in first world nations, the onus of directing the course of humanity fell upon women, and thus the feminine reality evolved into what it is today.

Freelove 2.0

It would appear that if all clinical testing goes according to hopes, Vasalgel will be this new form of unilaterally male-controlled birth control. I am, however, cautiously apprehensive about how accessible this breakthrough in male birth control will actually be. From the research I did for this piece, and coming from the usual feminist suspects, you’d think that Vasalgel would be a Godsend for sex-positive feminism. If I’m a bit skeptical it’s because the usual feminist sources are following the same shortsighted emotionalism that put them into virtually total control of the course of the human species.

Naturally, feminism would like to paint Vasalgel as some equalist responsibility for men. Almost every feminist article I read aboutVasalgel had some exasperated variation of “well, it’s about time men were given some responsibility for birth control” and then citing how difficult it was to remember to take a pill regularly. The other refrain was about how women couldn’t wait to get off the birth control hormones that made them fat, moody or just ornery, and how great it would be to have men be responsible for the convenience of their sex lives – more on that later.

But this is more than a bit facetious for women, because it only illustrates women’s (or feminist writer’s) obliviousness as to how male birth control will affect a base of power the Feminine Imperative has enjoyed for over five generations now. The fact that we’ve had female-controlled hormonal birth control, as well as legal, medically safe, abortion since the mid 60s and we’re only now developing/testing a male-controlled alternative in 2016 should speak volumes about our culture’s feminine-primary priorities.

This idea never occurs to women apparently; at least not publicly. Bear in mind all the development for Vasalgel has taken place almost entirely outside of western cultures (India being the test-bed). It could be that Vasalgel is still in its infancy with regard to a feminine-primary public awareness and women are still caught up in the hedonistically entitled mindset that only speaks to convenience in their sex lives. My guess is that not a lot of critical insight has been given as to how, as Ian and myself have explained, a feminine-primary social order would be affected by men’s far greater control of women’s Hypergamous strategies.

The ‘greater good’ of Vasalgel at this stage is all couched in the hope that it will help end unwanted pregnancies. That sounds like a progressive’s idea of a benefit to society, but at this stage what’s being overlooked is how a new technological advancement will immediately and irrevocably alter the direction of our larger culture.

I spoke to this in last week’s article. The rapid advancement of Vasalgel represents the potential of altering the direction of a social order that’s depended on the presumption of a unilateral control of Hypergamy for almost sixty years now. My guess is that once we get closer to realizing the use of Vasalgel as practical birth control for men the more resistance and legislation will be lobbied against it as the idea of what it could mean to the Feminine Imperative starts to sink in.

Her Prerogative

Now, we have to bring the implications of male-controlled birth control full circle here. There’s been a common idiom about women’s ‘right’ to choice for centuries now – a woman’s prerogative; a woman always has the right to change her mind. I actually looked up where this notion first started and it went as far back as (you guessed it) courtly love of medieval times:

Breach of promise is a common lawtort, abolished in many jurisdictions. It was also called breach of contract to marry,[1] and the remedy awarded was known as heart balm.

From at least medieval times until the early 20th century, a man’s promise of engagement to marry a woman was considered, in many jurisdictions, a legally binding contract. If the man were to subsequently change his mind, he would be said to be in “breach” of this promise and subject to litigation for damages.

The converse of this was seldom true; the concept that “it’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind” had at least some basis in law (though a woman might pay a high social price for exercising this privilege, as explained below)—and unless an actual dowry of money or property had changed hands, a man was only rarely able to recover in a “breach of promise” suit against a woman, were he even allowed to file one.

This is another one of those old books ideas that women playing by the new books of modern times still clung to even after the Sexual Revolution. An important part of men’s Blue Pill Beta conditioning is to always defer to a woman’s judgement and choices no matter how duplicitous they may initially appear. Part of the old books social contract was based on a pre-understanding about what was at stake were a man and woman to come together, have sex and potentially bring a child into the world. Prior to the advent of birth control both sexes were on relatively equal presumptions of risk. A woman’s fickleness, duplicity or even prudence made a woman’s prerogative something pragmatic.

Now we move into an era where women have almost unchallenged, unilateral control of the birthing of the next generations of the human race. As I’ve mentioned before, with safe and legal abortion, feminine-controlled birth control, feminine-primary societal norms, feminine-controlled definitions of rape or harassment, and feminine-controlled legislation of men’s responsibility to fatherhood (irrespective of genetic origin) women’s consolidation on power is nearly complete.

All of these bases of social control revolve around a woman’s control of Hypergamy and the complete exclusion of men’s influence on it, beyond his genetic and provisional qualifications to satisfy it. When we combine the old books idiom of a woman’s right to change her mind with the nearly total control of Hypergamy, we see that the more we progress socially the more evident this feminine base of control is.

All social mandates revolve around satisfying women’s Hypergamous doubts, or allaying or justifying the fear of living with the consequences of them. Even in the current Presidential election we see this dynamic in action with the potential for the first female President.

Changes

In the next post in this series I’ll get into how women’s hindbrains struggle to keep up with the immediate rewards of social media and that the advancement of technology that gratifies their evolved psychological natures. However, for this discussion it’s important to understand that the advancements that have led to women’s social primacy of today are still tenuous. Vasagel could be one catalyst that is a game changer; a challenger not just to our intersexual dynamic, but the power hold women retain in directing Hypergamy and putting the direction of human breeding (in a much larger part) in the control of men.

I find it ironic and fitting that the promise of unrestricted sex which men believed they would enjoy with the advent of women’s hormonal birth control is the same rationale I’m reading from women about Vasagel. What they don’t consider is that this new invention will give men a new male prerogative with regard to who they will or will not start a family with.

I understand that in some ‘sphere communities Vasagel is the ‘big fuck you’ to women for have had such uncontested social control for so long, but to them I would advise not to get too elated too quickly. For the most part the socio-psychological infrastructure that conditions men for the Blue Pill will still exist, and there will always be Betas, even ones with the male prerogative that Vasagel implies, who will still defer to the feminine as their only means to sex and intimacy. The Feminine Imperative is nothing if not fluidly redefining itself to work around challenges to it s power. Vasagel may represent a change (assuming men are allowed to have it or can afford it) in our intersexual dynamics, but it will take some time before there is real change in our social dynamics as a result of it.

443 comments

  1. In regards to the picture in OP, there was this 30 year old stripper chick who looked great for her age, solid HB8 all dolled up, that proposed marriage to me while giving me a lap dance while I was 19 years old in the military at the time circa 1997. I told her, “No, because one; you’re too fucking old, and two; I know what you’re after.” Cool story, right?

  2. Pro Tip-

    Do not run trains of drunk, vomiting, passed out chicks.

    There are a number of chicks out there that would love a train session without the use of alcohol. Make the effort, find them, game them, wrap it up and proceed.

    Your fantasy isn’t in the bar. Or the club.

    Be fucking careful. Everything isn’t a game and all laughs.

  3. http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160920110221-01-angelina-jolie-brad-pitt-file-large-tease.jpg

    Beta Tells.

    I always thought it was funny that Pitt was always held up as the apex example of an Alpha from as far back as my SoSuave days. Whenever you needed a stupidly extreme example to make a point about Hypergamy he was always the go to guy. Him and Clooney were the celebs you’d use to embody the guy “any woman would want to fuck” because, just look at them.

    Pitt may’ve been a natural in his youth, but like so many guys gifted with good looks he never developed the insight for Game. Guys like that never need to, because if aint broke what’s to fix? These are the dudes that tell Betas, “just be yourself man, that’s all I ever do.”

    But if PUAs have inspired me to anything it’s that looks are definitely no indicator of mindset. A guy like Pitt can definitely be Beta, but everyone thinks because he’s every woman’s ideal guy that his looks are an insurance against a Beta mindset and Blue Pill conditioning.

    Honestly I’m convinced that Jolie is BPD and she’s run out of patience for the most beautiful person in the world because he’s never come close to being the borderline Alpha abuser she needs to rule her. He’s a very good looking Nice Guy. If the rumors of him smoking weed and drinking more than he should are true he’s only following the life plan for the majority of guys his age in his exact same predicament.

    Look at the stats for alcoholism and opioid abuse for UMC white men in the 38-50 demographic. It’s staggering and defies the logic that it’s reasonably affluent men who look to chemical escapism. Why do you suppose that is? What good reason is there for well-off men who’re educated and have fairly stable jobs to seek out opiates?

    I think it’s because it’s perceived as an escape from a life situation that’s trapped them in which they have zero control over. Remember it wasn’t Brad who filed for divorce. He’d still be trying to work shit otherwise. And that’s what’s really tragic, he has the affluence, status, social proof and looks to do whatever the fuck he wants. But his Blue Pill conditioned understanding of how shit works with women was never compensated for, even with his being the sexiest man alive – the same goes for Johnny Depp.

    They may not be Betas per se, but they definitely are paralyzed by their Blue Pill conditioning.

  4. ” Look at the stats for alcoholism and opioid abuse for UMC white men in the 38-50 demographic. It’s staggering and defies the logic that it’s reasonably affluent men who look to chemical escapism. Why do you suppose that is? What good reason is there for well-off men who’re educated and have fairly stable jobs to seek out opiates?”

    This right here.

    I’ve seen this up close with my own 2 eyes.

    I figured it out a while ago from talking to these ” types ” of guys, that what you are saying is very much true. They follow ” Life Plans ” from very early ages. They get into ruts that they can’t get out of without upsetting the apple cart, and become trapped.

    We outsiders see only the trophy wife, the huge homes, the $90,000 car ( along with the $65,000 pickup truck..) and the maze of gigantic corner offices that become like elaborate jail cells.

    I’ve watched over decades as their faces grow stone like.

    Success is a double edged sword. As always, it depends upon one’s perspective. MPO.

  5. Years ago Jolie gave the world a peek into her head when she kissed her brother in the mouth like he was her boyfriend at an awards show. Angelina, the wild child. Lol.

    But then, she ” changed ” and became the serious Angelina.

    I laughed then as I laugh now.

    Mo’ money, Mo’ Problems.

  6. …. Am I defined by my success? Or is my success defined by me?

    Okay. I’m done with my disjointed thoughts.

  7. @Rollo: “They may not be Betas per se, but they definitely are paralyzed by their Blue Pill conditioning.”

    Part of the Red Pill adoption I struggle with is that every shit-test, every frame snatch attempt, every flake “triggers” a fear of “Was I being beta????”

    When it works, Red Pill really works. But I have a real problem determining: “Is this some external issue (shit test/Cluster B/plain shittiness) or “am I giving off a beta vibe that invites this type of behavior.

    AWALT is a Red Pill truth. All women shit-test, another Red Pill truth.

    But if it can happen to Brad Pitt….

    He’ll be fine. But this is the danger of being involved with a Cluster B/BPD girl. You’re in a no-win situation: walk away, you’re positioned as the uncaring asshole….stay and you’re trampled on…set boundaries and you’re constantly shit-tested until you do one of the aforementioned.

  8. The day Wilmer Valderrama settles down and gets married is going to crush me for sure … even more than if Dicaprio took the plunge. So funny that he played the joke character on That 70’s Show but he’s the biggest pimp playa in Hollywood now.

  9. @Anonymous Reader – on the “doctors agree” point – while it’s true that medicine (and a lot of other science) has been twisted by Big Pharma financial incentives (sometimes in outright corrupt and illegal ways but mostly subtler ones), the fact is there are also plenty of things on which “Doctors agree” that are actually true (as far as we know in 2016, blah blah).

    It’s not what doctors don’t know that bothers me, it is what they “know” that’s wrong. Statins. “Heart healthy” high carb, low fat, diets. Running miles per day vs. resistance training. All prostatitis is bacterial. I can go on but won’t.

    “As far as we know in 2016”, well, more like “as far as they knew when they completed residency”. Whenever that was.

    I’ve had to learn Game on my own, and learn current year medicine on my own, because no one in my family taught me the former and none of my doctors are willing to learn the latter. Fortunately for me, I know how to do lit searches and research. But that’s just me.

  10. SJB
    @Anonymous Reader: To your list add the military as a test bed for mandatory albeit temporary male sterilization: we’ll be told the cost saving of not having to dismiss pregnant female soldiers from the theater as well as ensuring training costs are recouped by the female really deploying.

    Perfect. In fact, I can see the Navy as the first testbed for mandatory Vasalgel, thanks to putting women on subs and ships. “It’s required for the deployment, sailor”.

    Your second question answers itself. Women will always have the option to get off the carrier or other ship, i.e. off deployment, via pregnancy one way or another. Because the FI rules the Pentagon.

  11. Look at the stats for alcoholism and opioid abuse for UMC white men in the 38-50 demographic. It’s staggering and defies the logic that it’s reasonably affluent men who look to chemical escapism.

    Well I don’t agree, when I am in my very expensive and elite UMC country club in the Middle West all I can see are very masculine men and very feminine women having a very monogamous good time and if a man wants to have an Old Fashioned or three after dinner with a little Oxy on the side that’s his business because what could be dangerous about an Old Fashioned?

  12. walawala
    Part of the Red Pill adoption I struggle with is that every shit-test, every frame snatch attempt, every flake “triggers” a fear of “Was I being beta????”

    That’s only natural, whether you were once more Alpha and got Betaized, or you were always Betaized, whatever. It results from overthinking the problem. Like standing in the bathroom staring at your own eyes wondering “What if I’m the reflection and the mirror is real” or some other stupid teenaged shit.

    Game / Red Pill is praxology. Nobody sits in the driver’s seat of a car pondering Newton’s Laws of Motion, we just — drive the car, right? If I get distracted by the crappy stuff on the radio and start dinking with it and the right wheels coast over to the rumble strip, I don’t freak out and have a fit, I just calmly get back into my lane.

    Shit testing happens. I need different tools, from Agree & Amplify to an ice cold blank face to “not hearing” for a minute to cocky-funny to bratty sister and so forth. I also need to calibrate on the fly. Sometimes I’ll stand by myself and ponder – not ruminate, not “oh, NOES” dwell, just ponder – “Ok, what was that?” then I’m done pondering.

    When it works, Red Pill really works. But I have a real problem determining: “Is this some external issue (shit test/Cluster B/plain shittiness) or “am I giving off a beta vibe that invites this type of behavior.

    I’m not Blaximus but he might say, “If you are worrying about giving off a beta vibe, you probably are”. So stop, check in with your mind, see that you are thinking in Red Pill praxology and move forward. If you mess up a shit test, well, there will be another one along to ace in a while, rest assured.

    Acing that one will make acing the next one just that much easier.

  13. The whole Brad Pitt thing I’m pretty sure is based on the fact he’s played numerous alpha male roles in movies.

    He’s good looking, and women project what they’ve seen in his movie performances onto a larger-than-life Alpha Fux persona that exists only in their minds.

    So yeah, it actually is literally true that they’d hop into bed in a heartbeat with this guy to do the standard hypergamous AF deed, but the catch is- Pitt’s alphaness is a movieland fantasy. In real life he’s an AFC, as is obvious from his numerous beta tells. His alphaness is a projection onto him, not inbuilt.

  14. @sfer & cuckoldry rarity:
    Of course the tens of % are overblown but I can´t get myself to consider numbers around 1-5% a “rare occurence”.
    If we say 5% it´s 1 in 20 which means you come to a parent meeting at your kid´s class and you probably are dealing with about 1 cheater or cuckold (or you´re the one).
    If we go down, 1 in a 100 still doesn´t sound negligible. The statistical chances you will die in a car accident are much lower than that, yet you see noone claiming that people rarely die in car accidents. (I bet you knew people who died that way. That, statistically means that you probably know several kids and fathers who are not kids and fathers.)
    Look up the odds of getting AIDS if you sleep with an infected woman once. The rarity of that event seems ridiculous. Would you go if you knew?

  15. walawala
    September 21st, 2016 at 7:55 pm

    Your candidness is revealing.

    The things you are admitting are telling and you would really benefit with actionable tools to break free of old blue pill conditioning in what you are describing as relationship game problems with Plate #3 and your former BPD chick.

    There is a thing: a person can not be both assertive and anxious about that at the same time, and thus being assertive would inhibit anxiety.

    Blue Pill tendencies that you have not completely purged are giving you tinges of anxiety, because they were so pervasive and indoctrinated in the old you.

    SJF Maxim #2: Game concepts and tactics are fungible (mutually interchangeable) across all relationship platforms.

    Even though you are spinning plates and invested in PUA, you personally are still involved in relationship game (…with Plate #3).

    Specific tools to improve your game Mindset are contained in Robert Glover’s No More Mr. Nice Guy.

    Specific tools to learn better tactics to improve your Game set tools in your toolbox are contained in Manuel Smiths When I Say No I feel Guilty.

    If you look at the titles of these books, you might be tempted to say, “…Aw hell, I’m not a Nice Guy and I can easily say NO! to my plates…”, but could benefit by some more tools to make these things congruent for you personally. Your ambivalence in these respects is slightly showing.

    There is a reason these two books are in the top two of three pre-requisites that is the married red pill reddit book side bar. It is because they are essentials.

    WISNIFG is about assertiveness, but it actually gives a lot of defensive tools to deal with Cluster B offensive tactics of your women.

    Imagine not having any trace of compunctions about Manual Smith’s Bill of rights and being congruent about it:

        I: You have the right to judge your own behavior, thoughts, and emotions, and to take the responsibility for their initiation and consequences upon yourself.

       II: You have the right to offer no reasons or excuses for justifying your behavior.

      III: You have the right to judge if you are responsible for finding solutions to other people’s problems.

      IV: You have the right to change your mind.

       V: You have the right to make mistakes—and be responsible for them.

      VI: You have the right to say, “I don’t know.”

    VII: You have the right to be independent of the goodwill of others before coping with them.

    VIII: You have the right to be illogical in making decisions.

      IX: You have the right to say, “I don’t understand.”

       X: You have the right to say, “I don’t care.”

    YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO,
    WITHOUT FEELING GUILTY

    He noted in his early work at training Peace Corps workers to cope with conflicts in Gaming the hosts in the countries they were trying to convince to change farming and insect abatement for crops and workers. The trainees who coped least well with critical personal examination behaved, in dealing with other people, as if they could not admit failure—they seemed to feel they had to be perfect (They they felt they had to be “Brad Pitt” to Angelina Jolie).

    The tactics and tools in WISNIFG are actionable tools to desensitize a person to criticism. To accept criticism and move on. The BPD chicks are paradoxically being non-assertively passive-aggressive and he tells how to deal with that. With specific come-backs for their shit tests.

    From Wikipedia:

    Assertiveness is the quality of being self-assured and confident without being aggressive. In the field of psychology and psychotherapy, it is a learnable skill and mode of communication. Dorland’s Medical Dictionary defines assertiveness as:
    a form of behavior characterized by a confident declaration or affirmation of a statement without need of proof; this affirms the person’s rights or point of view without either aggressively threatening the rights of another (assuming a position of dominance) or submissively permitting another to ignore or deny one’s rights or point of view.

    The goals of assertiveness training include:[4]

    -increased awareness of personal rights

    -differentiation between non-assertiveness and assertiveness

    -differentiation between passive–aggressiveness and aggressiveness

    -learning both verbal and non-verbal assertiveness skills.

    As a communication style and strategy, assertiveness is thus distinguished from both aggression and passivity.

    How people deal with personal boundaries, their own and those of other people, helps to distinguish between these three concepts. Passive communicators do not defend their own personal boundaries and thus allow aggressive people to abuse or manipulate them through fear. Passive communicators are also typically not likely to risk trying to influence anyone else. Aggressive people do not respect the personal boundaries of others and thus are liable to harm others while trying to influence them.

    A person communicates assertively by overcoming fear of speaking his or her mind or trying to influence others, but doing so in a way that respects the personal boundaries of others.

    Assertive people are also willing to defend themselves against aggressive people.

    Combined that congruent assertiveness with the impudence you already have and you will have a bit more Alpha tells. And more truly Amused Mastery.

  16. @Ian, Rollo:

    this may be my inexperience, but why would Vasalgel be such a game changer given that there is already cheap access to condoms? I can see the “covert” aspect of it is different, but to be fair women already can’t know if you have a vasectomy.

    Also, for spinning plates etc. with all the carousel activity going on by nearly all HBs, I think it would be very unwise to not use condoms for their STD prevention, beyond the birth control aspect of Vasalgel.

    Is it because men can get swept up in the moment and not put the condom? Or is it more for the “backup” aspect against an “oops forgot to take the pill (on purpose)” move in a LTR?

  17. @walawala
    “Back to the Angela Jolie/Brad Pitt break up, what stands out for me in that story is the demonization of Pitt for “doing what dudes do”.”

    This is my point about legal marriage and promising monogamy. The things that, in the OMG’s day, would have been accepted or viewed as masculine traits etc, are now viewed as “evil”. So their kids are chaotic all over the house and Brad yells to get their attention and whoops, now he’s a child abuser and potential danger, and EVERYONE will agree on it and not even listen to his side or give him the benefit of the doubt or anything. The Women Are Wonderful effect combined with Toxic Masculinity in full swing.

    @Sentient
    “Hey a few pages ago you were advocating and open poly relationship, so you’re baby mama is going to know who your girls are.”

    As I’ve said since the beginning, you can craft it how you want to. You can fuck random strippers on your business trips with all your wife knowing is just “if he’s away on business he might have company in his hotel room, or might not, I don’t ask and he doesn’t tell”, or you can try a full out Tyler “she brings her girlfriends over to have 3somes with you” arrangement. Whatever you prefer and weigh the risks on…except compared to legal marriage these risks come with a benefit: a variety of poon lol

    Personally, I prefer the fully open stuff, but in doing that I would obviously have a harder time winning full custody and would have to take more pro-active precautions to help my odds in that as much as possible, and the style of relationship would help keep her attracted enough that we may not HAVE much of a custody battle anyway (VS the Tiger Woods who agrees to monogamy and legal marriage and then because he “CHEATED”, gets her (and society’s) full wrath).

    There’s a chance that with an open thing I could end up only being able to visit the kids, but there’s the same chance with a legal marriage except on top of that I would also be paying alimony and lose half my assets and, as I’ve pointed out numerous times, voluntarily restricting your options makes it harder to stoke dread and keep attraction so I’d be increasing my odds of being in that situation in the first place (IN 2016, NOT BACK IN THE OMG DAYS WITH GIRLS WHO WERE RAISED WITH TRADITIONAL/RELIGIOUS VALUES AND VIEWS ON MARRIAGE AND BEING A WIFE…I’M TALKING ABOUT <25YO 8+/10S IN 2016 lol).

    "And when in a custody fight she can leverage these facts watcha gonna do? You can be sure her attorney will push this advantage."

    What I'd do is exactly what @Culum Struan said and what I said a million times in that other thread:

    “you sure as hell need to be clear that this kind of lifestyle will be serious ammo against you in a custody battle and you have to add preparation for it into the plan. Like I know you’re already planning stuff like “be an involved dad” (that’s a good idea in itself lol) and “build evidence to prove you were an involved dad and attending PTA meetings and knowing the name of your son’s second best friend” etc. You need to crank that up 100x AND be prepared with evidence to prove how your poly lifestyle was kept separate from the kids and didn’t affect them etc.”

    The more up front what you’re doing is, the more you’re gonna need to make sure it’s clear that you’re a capable (ideally better) parent. It’s not a 100% guarantee, but neither is a legal marriage, and at least this plan comes with the benefit of a fun sex life and better odds at keeping attraction long-term (since it inherently does the things we recommend deadbedroom men do in MMSL to keep attraction going).

    Remember, as I’ve said a thousand times: I’m not discussing a flawless perfect 100% guaranteed system…that doesn’t exist. But I think we can do a hell of a lot better than the current system which is 100% risk on the men, 0% risk on the women (and in fact NEGATIVE risk, since they’re REWARDED for leaving), for no benefit the man couldn’t get if he simply didn’t legally marry and kept things discreet (like fucking on business trips, not ditching his kids’ little league game to go to a nightclub).

    @Sentient
    “But hey Brad did not get divorce raped… Like millions of guys, mostly young, who simply have no assets and wife makes same or more then they do.”

    lol so those “mostly young guys with no assets and who’s wife makes the same or more than they do” are getting custody over their ex-wife are they? The family courts are like “well we have this wife of yours who’s their biological mother and makes more money than you and you don’t have any assets and don’t make money…SURE WE’LL GIVE YOU THE KIDS, DUDE!” Fantasy world shit lol And if those guys aren’t getting the kids, which they’re not, then there was no benefit to their getting legally married.

    @Blaximus @Rollo @Pitt haters
    “TBH, Pitt is just a guy. He’s an actor. We don’t really know anything at all about him.”

    Not directed at you guys in particular, this was just a good quote to make this point that I tried to make in my original post but Sentient shit himself and missed with his “THOSE ARE JUST ACTING ROLES DOOD” pearl-clutch, so this is directed at the Brad Pitt haters in general: We can actually tell a LOT about him by watching his behind the scenes stuff, bloopers, interviews, autograph signings, interactions with other people, etc, the same way we can tell a lot about guys we see or meet infield.

    If you ONLY watch his movies then ya, you’re just seeing a character. But this view everyone seems to have of “HE’S CLEARLY A BETA, HIS ALPHA ROLES WERE JUST FAKE MOVIE ROLES HE WAS A BIG CHODE” thing is silly. We can tell all SORTS of shit about him.

    I can tell you (and most of you could tell anyone) from watching a random guy I’ve never even seen before (let alone know the actual details/background of) infield for a few minutes about how alpha/beta he is, how confident he is, how strong his frame is, what his tonality is like, and seeing him interacting I can tell you what his game skills are like etc

    But when it’s a movie star with dozens of hours worth of footage of him NOT acting, suddenly it’s impossible for anyone to tell? Suddenly we just discount all that and summarize him as “only alpha in his movies, not in real life” based on the fact that at 52 he’s had a few chode moments (like picking a chick with kids and believing in True Love etc)?

    Any single one of the guys saying Pitt was never alpha and it was all in his roles, if they saw a guy infield interacting with a girl the way he does in that Mrs & Mrs Smith press interview I posted above where he’s teasing her and self-depreciating etc etc would be going “THAT guy is alpha and has some fuckin GAME, look at that shit” Anyone saying that if Culum or Hank or Softek pulled out an FR that read like Pitt teasing Jolie in that interview, we wouldn’t all be applauding their ass, is full of shit and only looking at the surface level of the guy.

    Same with his career etc…any one of you would be proud as fuck if your kid grew up to be like Brad Pitt in 99% of categories. The ONLY area he fucked up in is believing in the Blue Pill dream and that legal marriage would guarantee he’ll have a family/wife forever. In every other area, from looks, money, status, career success, motivation/drive, passion, social proof, preselection, morals/values, etc I call bullshit if any guy here said they wouldn’t LOVE for their kid to grow up and come out similar to Pitt (but with a slightly better understanding of vetting and attraction).

    So the whole “oh he’s just some beta cuck and always was lololz” thing falls flat. The reality is you can look at clips from him through his career and the dude was all sorts of alpha by anyone’s standards and killing it in almost every category possible.

    The only area he didn’t have a handle on was: 1) proper screening, and 2) understanding that a woman’s love is conditional and that legal marriage won’t guarantee anything. That’s it.

    And those are the things I was trying to address in the marriage discussion.

    @Rollo
    “I always thought it was funny that Pitt was always held up as the apex example of an Alpha from as far back as my SoSuave days.”

    It’s so easy to kick the guy now that he’s down, but in all honesty what area do you think Brad Pitt back in your SoSuave days WASN’T an example of absolutely SLAYING it in value? Looks? Money? Career success? Fame/Status? Social proof? Preselection? Confidence? Body language? Tonality? Flirting (again see the Mrs & Mrs Smith flirting clips etc)? AMOG’ing (see him and Clooney in interviews together, perfect natural alpha AMOG skills)?

    Like come on, let’s not re-write history here as if Brad Pitt was some beta cuck chode loser his whole life and like “oh I was so wise I KNEW he was some chode”. The dude was max’ing out every category of attractive traits except for his blue pill view of marriage/relationships.

    Like be honest: if your son grew up to be like Brad Pitt was in his 20s/30s, you would be like “oh man, my son is such a failure”? No fuckin way lol

    “Pitt may’ve been a natural in his youth, but like so many guys gifted with good looks he never developed the insight for Game.”

    CONSCIOUS game, ya. But he clearly HAD game. Anyone saying he didn’t have game, like, again look at him flirting with Jolie in the Mr & Mrs Smith stuff and in other interviews etc…the dude had game. It was just Natural game, not learned.

    And that Natural game can fade, as we’ve all seen any of our Natural buddies who still have that madonna/whore complex and picture the white pickett fence and end up, as Bill Maher said: “I knew these guys when they were stallions, now they’re the horse shuffling around central park with blinders on”

    “A guy like Pitt can definitely be Beta, but everyone thinks because he’s every woman’s ideal guy that his looks are an insurance against a Beta mindset and Blue Pill conditioning.”

    I wouldn’t even say he’s Beta to be honest. He’s not half-assing anything…he’s fully 100% passionate about what he was doing, he was just doing the wrong thing because he was socially conditioned with blue pill views of marriage/relationships. He’s still killing it in all categories. If he was laying on a couch not making movies anymore getting fat and being lazy and letting people walk all over him etc, okay, he’s a Beta. But the dude is Alpha and full of passion etc, it’s just aimed in the wrong direction because he was given incorrect information.

    Like as an analogy picture a gun. That gun shooting at the wrong target isn’t any less powerful of a gun, it’s just been aimed in the wrong direction. That’s Pitt, ’cause he’s CLEARLY still massively high-value and a massive achiever and full of passion for what he does in life etc. He was just aimed wrong because he was socially conditioned to believe that if he fully put all his passion/energy into being a dedicated father and husband, that he would get a payoff for that.

    That’s a VERY different situation than a guy who becomes a Beta chode. If Pitt had been given a PROPER understanding of how this stuff works (like if he read TRM growing up lol), all that Alpha shit would have been aimed toward the RIGHT channels.

    That’s why I’m pushing so hard on the monogamy is dead marriage is dead thing. Because these guys are learning this shit and then being aimed at a target that comes with massive risks and no real benefit in 2016 (VS back when aiming at that target MEANT something to women/society).

    I want to get guys to really understand that they have to let go of that paradigm COMPLETELY and re-focus their aim because otherwise we’re just creating more Brad Pitts: alpha guys who are aimed toward the wrong target.

    That make sense? Would be curious to hear your thoughts on this Rollo.

    “Honestly I’m convinced that Jolie is BPD and she’s run out of patience for the most beautiful person in the world because he’s never come close to being the borderline Alpha abuser she needs to rule her.”

    Agree 100% lol Which comes back to the screening stuff. We all KNOW Jolie was a bad candidate from day 1. But Brad Pitt, a natural alpha, walks into this shit blindfolded like a lamb to the slaughter, ignoring all the warning signs. That shouldn’t be happening anymore. But it’ll keep happening because we don’t have a fast efficient way to pro-actively screen girls out and by the time a guy figures out “oh she has red flags” he’s already 4 years into monogamy/scarcity with her and minimizes those flags and then gets burned and we all go “well you should’ve known better buddy” How COULD he know better, no one taught him how to.

    “Look at the stats for alcoholism and opioid abuse for UMC white men in the 38-50 demographic. It’s staggering and defies the logic that it’s reasonably affluent men who look to chemical escapism. Why do you suppose that is? What good reason is there for well-off men who’re educated and have fairly stable jobs to seek out opiates?”

    What say you, SJF? lol

    “But his Blue Pill conditioned understanding of how shit works with women was never compensated for, even with his being the sexiest man alive – the same goes for Johnny Depp. They may not be Betas per se, but they definitely are paralyzed by their Blue Pill conditioning.”

    That’s the biggest takeaway from this. We can look at Ben Affleck and say “well he started gambling and got restless and he wasn’t big into the fatherhood thing anyway” and blame his lack of commitment/dedication. We can look at like, if Clooney or Dicaprio or Dan Bilzerian or myself got divorced and go “well he was a player so of course, he should have shown more commitment/dedication”. We can look at like, shitty father celebs (can’t think of any off the top of my head ’cause I don’t follow much celeb news, but take a celeb who just never wanted to be a father but accidentally knocked his chick up and got married, I’m sure Jezzies could name a million lol), and say “okay well he didn’t want to be a father so he wasn’t enough of a Provider role”. We can look at guys who quit working or lose their jobs or get sick or get fat or lose their passion etc etc and go “it’s so obvious why she left”.

    But Brad Pitt is objectively by anyone’s standards, still killing it in every category we push men to improve themselves in, and HAS been for the last 10 years as a power couple. And then on top of it he IS a family man type, with that wholesome religious upbringing and values and full belief in commitment and desire to be a good involved father. Pitt is an example of a guy who THRIVES on fatherhood, whereas a guy like me would be like “ah fuck I have to be a dad? FML” lol

    But he gets bailed on by a POST-wall woman with health problems (literally NO SMV anymore, like Stefan Molyneux said, her reproductive stuff has been removed so she literally has no SMV to men, she’s not ditching him for a better monkey branch she’s ditching him for NOTHING and being ALONE Eat Pray Love’ing) etc who’s now SLANDERING him and her RAS is fully ignoring all of his good qualities and focusing 100% on his bad qualities EXACTLY like Tyler talks about here and what I’ve talked about for years now, where if she’s attracted to you, all she sees are your good points and your flaws are reframed or minimized, and if she’s LOST attraction, all she sees are your bad points and your flaws are highlighted:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_dKkLkox2Y&t=8s

    So Pitt’s situation basically shoves in everyone’s face that NO, the missing component ISN’T “just be more dedicated to the settling down commitment family life”. Because if ANYONE should be able to make that work, it’s the guy who’s slaying it in every other category on TOP of that. If HE can’t do it then what chance does Joe the Plumber who DOESN’T have millions of fangirls and social proof and millions of dollars and is jacked at 50 etc etc, have?

    There’s something structurally BROKEN in monogamy/marriage in 2016. Monogamy and legal marriage, in 2016, restrict the man’s options while the woman’s options are still wide open (social media, male orbiters/social circles, male work environments, etc) and just inherently make it harder for him to stay attractive, ESPECIALLY if he ALSO adds a bunch of Provider stuff to that (like being a good father etc).

    The system itself is damaged and needs to be thrown out and new strategies discussed and tested. Because it’s going to get WORSE, not better. There’s NO reason for it to 180 instead of getting worse. We have to adapt and give men a new gameplan.

    @Blaximus
    “I cosign SJF’s 18 month vetting timeline. It’s been my experience that the timeline may even be shrunk down to 12 months, but that depends highly on the woman. Some are better at hiding shit than others. Some like to play more games than others. As always, test the fuck out of a new prospect, listen to what/how she says what she says, but ALWAYS watch what she does. This is paramount.”

    See this is what I was hoping to get out of you OMGs in the screening discussion instead of a 12 page debate on marriage. How would you recommend “testing the fuck out of a new prospect”? What, based on your experience of vetting women, could a man do to pro-actively “test the fuck out of a new prospect” within the first year? What were key things that you found and what type of experiments/tests could a guy pro-actively employ that we could codify to teach men, for him to discover whether she passes/fails those tests in year one instead of 4 years in when he’s invested and overlooking shitty behavior etc What did YOU do that your wife passed vetting for those things on?

    “This too is part of the vetting process. Will she take direction or will she compete and demand ” equality “? Is she willing to be lead?”

    What ways can you think of that you could test a girl for whether she takes directions or not or is willing to be led or not (to the point where you would vett her out of the running completely)? Any thoughts on what a guy could pro-actively do to test for that in year one? What did YOU do that your wife passed vetting for those things on?

    @Sentient @Blaximus
    “Will you do a post on the Alex Smith RSDvrape trial. The New Yorker has picked up the story.”

    Oh wow, I read the article and it’s like a “how to do everything wrong” guide. These dudes are blatantly ignoring/misinterpreting EVERYTHING about ASD/LMR/Buyer’s Remorse/discretion/legalities, etc Like I expect shit to get blown out of proportion in these articles, but both the girls’ accounts and the guys’ Lay Reports look like just flat out rape.

    This is why the brushing off of the old PUA stuff is so sad to me. Mystery’s methods for dealing with LMR/BR were to make the girl feel MORE comfortable (Riker’s 3 Rules which are basically about alleviating her concerns/worries/ASD), or to back off and DHV until she’s more attracted and WANTS to fuck, or to respect her boundaries TOO MUCH to the point where you turn on the lights and play chess together completely asexual until she initiates sex again lol And the Buyers Remorse handling was about comforting her and making sure she feels special and happy about the whole experience, just like the after-care in BDSM shit where you make sure the person feels good about the experience.

    Like “leave them better than you found them” was the old PUA community rule because seduction was supposed to be a fun experience that the girl is HAPPY she had. And as I’ve mentioned a bunch of times game works better on sober girls than drunk ones ’cause sober ones can actually understand all your verbals and innuendo and rapport conversation etc When I meet girls early in the night and we’re into eachother but their friends have to drag them off to dance or whatever, I literally tell them flat out “I’ll find you later, don’t get too drunk I like talking to you sober” and I’ll get us both waters etc and if they come back hammered and sloppy I’m like “ah damn” ’cause it’s a turn off and I don’t want to take them home anymore.

    Mystery wasn’t teaching guys to find wasted chicks, feed them booze till they’re puking, then hide their phones and gangbang rape them and then TAUNT their worried friend about it…??? Like what the FUCK.

    This is the difference between giving guys a gun but with good training VS just giving them a gun and no training. I really wish people would check out the old Mystery shit. It was way more about creating a fun experience for BOTH parties.

    @Blaximus @Rollo
    “” Look at the stats for alcoholism and opioid abuse for UMC white men in the 38-50 demographic. It’s staggering and defies the logic that it’s reasonably affluent men who look to chemical escapism. Why do you suppose that is? What good reason is there for well-off men who’re educated and have fairly stable jobs to seek out opiates?”

    This right here. I’ve seen this up close with my own 2 eyes.

    I figured it out a while ago from talking to these ” types ” of guys, that what you are saying is very much true. They follow ” Life Plans ” from very early ages. They get into ruts that they can’t get out of without upsetting the apple cart, and become trapped.

    We outsiders see only the trophy wife, the huge homes, the $90,000 car ( along with the $65,000 pickup truck..) and the maze of gigantic corner offices that become like elaborate jail cells.

    I’ve watched over decades as their faces grow stone like. Success is a double edged sword. As always, it depends upon one’s perspective. MPO.”

    lol where were you guys when I was suggesting SJF might have UMC goggles on in that marriage thread with his whole “all my friends and everyone in my community is flawless and happy and perfect” shit?? Coulda used some of this in there lol

    @walawala
    “He’ll be fine. But this is the danger of being involved with a Cluster B/BPD girl. You’re in a no-win situation: walk away, you’re positioned as the uncaring asshole….stay and you’re trampled on…set boundaries and you’re constantly shit-tested until you do one of the aforementioned.”

    My point is basically that society is very heavily encouraging and incentivizing girls to BE “Cluster B/BPD” types. Like, to me a Cluster B is just a normal girl with no behavior filter really, just like the Alpha version of most of us is just the same guy we were before but with no filter. Once we remove that filter and just embrace our “id”, suddenly we’re alpha because we aren’t holding back anymore.

    But everything in this 2016 Kardashian culture is promoting the “just follow your “id”” mentality with women, rewarding them for it with validation and sympathy and attention and praise etc

    So it’s becoming a situation where it’s going to feel like EVERY girl a guy meets is Cluster B/BPD. Is it that a medical condition is spreading, or is it just that society is rapidly encouraging and rewarding Bad Moms behavior in 2016?

    @Anonymous Reader
    “It’s not what doctors don’t know that bothers me, it is what they “know” that’s wrong. Statins. “Heart healthy” high carb, low fat, diets. Running miles per day vs. resistance training. All prostatitis is bacterial. I can go on but won’t. ”

    “I’ve had to learn Game on my own, and learn current year medicine on my own, because no one in my family taught me the former and none of my doctors are willing to learn the latter. Fortunately for me, I know how to do lit searches and research. But that’s just me.”

    I know THOSE feels lol As I’m learning about health/exercise/nutrition etc trying to get myself in better shape so I can bang into my 50s, I can’t believe how much of the stuff I was taught growing up has turned out to be complete bullshit (and even COUNTER-productive and explains a fuckload about why I’ve been a chubby dude) and how slow “official” approved recommendations are to actually be updated and promoted. Massive progress can be made by communities pro-actively field-testing and experimenting instead of waiting for official studies from Harvard or the government to tell them what’s legit.

    @Anonymouse Reader @walawala
    “walawala
    Part of the Red Pill adoption I struggle with is that every shit-test, every frame snatch attempt, every flake “triggers” a fear of “Was I being beta????”

    That’s only natural, whether you were once more Alpha and got Betaized, or you were always Betaized, whatever. It results from overthinking the problem.”

    This. That’ll go away in time as you internalize all this stuff…and by “in time” I mean like, YEARS not weeks lol This is a life-long journey. Like, you’ll still ASK yourself “hmm, did I do something that would have caused that to happen?”, but it’s a detached objective unemotional observation just like looking at a replay of an F1 race and asking “hmm, should I have turned my wheel slightly sooner on that turn?” because that’s just optimizing your skillset.

    But you won’t attach your self-worth to it or have that fear of “OMG AM I REVERTING TO MY BETA FORM” like the Hulk worrying he’s going to turn back to puny Bruce Banner again lol Because you’ll have internalized enough of the mindsets through field experience (field field field) to know that’s not really a thing to be concerned about because the alpha version of you IS the default, it’s the beta that was the mask (chains wrapped on you by social conditioning that will take years to fully de-program).

    This is where a lot of the internal game work comes from. Usually guys that go into panic mode over those things are the guys that are still in the stage where they’re defining their worth based on their results. ie – “this girl likes me, so I have value and am alpha etc, this girl doesn’t like me, so I am worthless and beta” lol It’s a natural stage, any guy will go through it when they go from no girls to getting girls, no big deal.

    But down the road when that starts holding the guy back, that’s where he has to start doing stuff that fucks with his comfort zones and beliefs…like purposely going out not looking good, purposely running “bad” game or trying to sabotage his sets and recover, purposely handicapping himself in whatever way infield, going for hotter girls while dressed bad, etc. So that he slowly learns “ohhh, it’s not the things I’m doing that are alpha, *I* am alpha” which goes into that “I don’t do it because it’s alpha, it’s alpha because I do it” zen shit lol

    That’s why I legitimately believe in my mind that I have more value than Brad Pitt etc to girls I’m with, even though objectively by ANYONE’S standards that’s clearly not the case lol But I have those beliefs because I pushed my comfort zones HARD and purposely handicapped myself infield etc to where I was getting attraction/iois even though I “shouldn’t” be getting them. When you take away those externals then it’s like “well then how am I getting this attraction? Ohhhhh, I guess I must just BE attractive by default, woah, my mind just exploded” lol

    @IAS
    “Is it because men can get swept up in the moment and not put the condom? Or is it more for the “backup” aspect against an “oops forgot to take the pill (on purpose)” move in a LTR?”

    Both really lol For the players the first one is probably more important, for the relationship guys who’s girls are hounding them to settle but they haven’t fully vetted her yet or aren’t sure they’re ready yet, the latter would be more important.

    Either way it gives men CONTROL for once. …so of course Feminists will fight it. lol

    @Nature Boy
    “If you had Vasalgel implanted would you want to buy a microscope and cum onto a slide every once in a while to make sure it’s still working?”

    DAILY. lol I would still be paranoid as fuck even with Vasalgel or a vasectomy. But it would be reassuring to know that I’m probably safe. Really it’s about KNOWING you’re probably safe. The longest month in the fucking universe is when you have a condom break or stupidly rawdog a chick and then have to wait for her to get her period lol Knowing there’s a 99.999999% chance that it’s impossible for her to have gotten pregnant would be a pretty big relief.

    In France they recently made it illegal to get paternity tests because it would break up too many families (aka guys would find out their kid wasn’t theirs). I’d imagine we’ll see something like that come into play if Vasalgel comes out.

  18. Yareally

    lol so those “mostly young guys with no assets and who’s wife makes the same or more than they do” are getting custody over their ex-wife are they? The family courts are like “well we have this wife of yours who’s their biological mother and makes more money than you and you don’t have any assets and don’t make money…SURE WE’LL GIVE YOU THE KIDS, DUDE!” Fantasy world shit lol And if those guys aren’t getting the kids, which they’re not, then there was no benefit to their getting legally married.

    Yeah you go all DIVORCE RAPE! then forget about custody issues… then when the absence of DIVORCE RAPE! is pointed out you go back to custody issues…

    Quite a conundrum for you…

    And your being so firmly on Brad’s tip… very strained…

    ” The dude was max’ing out every category of attractive traits except for his blue pill view of marriage/relationships.”

    Yeah except that little bit…

    We can actually tell a LOT about him by watching his behind the scenes stuff, bloopers, interviews, autograph signings, interactions with other people, etc, the same way we can tell a lot about guys we see or meet infield.

    Searching for behind the scenes footage and ignoring his public acts?!? My oh my…

    Brad was always Beta to the core… first consider his career… actors are validation seekers first and foremost. There is a small minority who do it because they really couldn’t do much else with their personalities and those are the legendary poon slayers – Nicholson, McQueen etc. The rest are BP and beta to the core.

    Which leads to Brad Pitt choosing as his first wife America’s Epiphany Chick (32!) and then leaving her for what anyone would say is damaged goods, an already twice divorced 30YO single mom and a known headcase to boot. Have you heard of missionary marriage?

    Jolie had a serious boyfriend for two years from the age of 14. Her mother allowed them to live together in her home, of which Jolie later said, “I was either going to be reckless on the streets with my boyfriend or he was going to be with me in my bedroom with my mom in the next room. She made the choice, and because of it, I continued to go to school every morning and explored my first relationship in a safe way.”[157] She has compared the relationship to a marriage in its emotional intensity, and said that the breakup compelled her to dedicate herself to her acting career at the age of 16.[158]

    During filming of Hackers (1995), Jolie had a romance with British actor Jonny Lee Miller, her first lover since the relationship in her early teens.[10] They were not in touch for many months after production ended, but eventually reconnected and married soon after in March 1996. She attended her wedding in black rubber pants and a white T-shirt, upon which she had written the groom’s name in her blood.[159] Though the relationship ended for good the following year, Jolie remained on good terms with Miller, whom she called “a solid man and a solid friend.”[14] Their divorce, initiated by Jolie in February 1999, was finalized shortly before she remarried the next year.[160][161]

    Prior to her marriage to Miller, Jolie began a relationship with model-actress Jenny Shimizu on the set of Foxfire (1996). She later said, “I would probably have married Jenny if I hadn’t married my husband. I fell in love with her the first second I saw her.”[162] According to Shimizu, their relationship lasted several years and continued even while Jolie was romantically involved with other people.[163] In 2003, when asked if she was bisexual, Jolie responded, “Of course. If I fell in love with a woman tomorrow, would I feel that it’s okay to want to kiss and touch her? If I fell in love with her? Absolutely! Yes!”[164]

    After a two-month courtship, Jolie married actor Billy Bob Thornton on May 5, 2000, in Las Vegas. They had met on the set of Pushing Tin (1999), but did not pursue a relationship at that time as Thornton was engaged to actress Laura Dern, while Jolie was reportedly dating actor Timothy Hutton, her co-star in Playing God (1997).[161] As a result of their frequent public declarations of passion and gestures of love—most famously wearing one another’s blood in vials around their necks—their marriage became a favorite topic of the entertainment media.[165] Jolie and Thornton announced the adoption of a child from Cambodia in March 2002, but abruptly separated three months later.[166] Their divorce was finalized on May 27, 2003. When asked about the sudden dissolution of their marriage, Jolie stated, “It took me by surprise, too, because overnight, we totally changed. I think one day we had just nothing in common. And it’s scary but… I think it can happen when you get involved and you don’t know yourself yet.”[15]

    Jolie was involved in a well-publicized Hollywood scandal when she was accused of having caused the 2005 divorce of actors Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelina_Jolie

    Why would he choose these 30YO women for monogamous relationships and not the hot tight <25YO 10s??? To say nothing of the millions of 7,8,9's he could have chosen from?

    Gee I wonder what was missing in his life?

    "The system itself is damaged and needs to be thrown out and new strategies discussed and tested"

    The MEN are damaged and OLD strategies need to be discussed and IMPLEMENTED…

  19. Any single one of the guys saying Pitt was never alpha and it was all in his roles, if they saw a guy infield interacting with a girl the way he does in that Mrs & Mrs Smith press interview I posted above where he’s teasing her and self-depreciating etc etc would be going “THAT guy is alpha and has some fuckin GAME, look at that shit” Anyone saying that if Culum or Hank or Softek pulled out an FR that read like Pitt teasing Jolie in that interview, we wouldn’t all be applauding their ass, is full of shit and only looking at the surface level of the guy.

    And for all the benefits of game, and I am pro game as you know, this here is still one of the biggest negatives of game qua game…

    Game is still just mimicry of alpha quality, it is not of itself representative of authentic alpha. It is a simulacrum.

    It can and does fool women, and men (as demonstrated here) as well (paper alpha). But in the end if you do not develop actual authentic Alpha traits, your inner beta will out, the mask slips, poor choices made and consequences suffered…

    so Brad Pitt choosing to marry a post 30 twice divorced Alpha widow single Mom likely BPD woman is not a guy having a few “chodements”…

  20. “How COULD he know better, no one taught him how to.”

    You didn’t learn that fire burns when your mother told you not to touch the fire.
    You learned that fire burns when you stuck your finger in the pretty flame.

    “What ways can you think of that you could test a girl for whether she takes directions or not or is willing to be led or not . . .”

    Give her directions and lead her.

    “where were you guys when I was suggesting SJF might have UMC goggles on. . .”

    Eyes Wide Shut was fiction, but not fantasy.

    “Massive progress can be made by communities pro-actively field-testing and experimenting . . .”

    The literature is thousands of years old. Bayer didn’t invent acetylsalicylic acid, it discovered what the active ingredient in willow was.

    The trick is separating the religious practice from the practical.

  21. Anonymous Reader
    “Perfect. In fact, I can see the Navy as the first testbed for mandatory Vasalgel, thanks to putting women on subs and ships. “It’s required for the deployment, sailor”.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/us-sailor-birth-at-sea-persian-gulf/

    YaReally
    “That’s why I’m pushing so hard on the monogamy is dead marriage is dead thing.”

    https://youtu.be/IbSG9eTpbNE

    SJF
    “I: You have the right to judge your own behavior, thoughts, and emotions, and to take the responsibility for their initiation and consequences upon yourself.”

    While ultimately these are solid points, and both books you mention could be good for developing mindset, I think it’s more productive for men to stop judging themselves AT ALL, especially when first coming to terms with red pill.

    When a man judges himself, who’s standard is he basing that judgement on? Nine times out of ten it will be the FI that he was raised/indoctrinated/brainwashed with since birth. HABD where you at lol

    I think that before a man can start judging himself on his own standards, he first has to live 100% judgement free for a while. Burn down the old growth to make room for the new. Shatter those limiting beliefs, if you will.

    One of Tyler’s 3(?) Steps to get unstifled or in state is to not judge himself. Todd says he doesn’t judge himself for her reactions, the interaction just wasn’t there yet.

    Judging comes from ego… there is some standard that you SHOULD be meeting but aren’t. it’s important to ask yourself why, but also “so what?”

  22. “Why would he choose these 30YO women for monogamous relationships and not the hot tight <25YO 10s??? To say nothing of the millions of 7,8,9's he could have chosen from?"

    If Brad would have married a rando <25YO 10 in 2000, she would be overweight with half his money by now. You can talk about screening but incentives are also important and movie stars stay hot and have their own money. Plus, they probably are more interesting than a random hot girl.

  23. @Sentient

    “Why would he choose these 30YO women for monogamous relationships and not the hot tight <25YO 10s???"

    Well, to me it looks more like social conditioning tbh.
    Outside of the redpill/pua crowd, do you really know many guys, even super alpha, who purposefully go after hot chicks 10years their junior, when they themselves are entering their 30s?

    They do it because "it's the right thing to do", and in the mainstream there are NO alternatives, unless you build your identity around being a 100% player like DiCaprio.

    Pitt probably is into being a family/stable guy, so he did the only thing possible in the mainstream : find a hot 30yo to have kids with!

    "so Brad Pitt choosing to marry a post 30 twice divorced Alpha widow single Mom likely BPD woman is not a guy having a few “chodements”…"

    Look at all those redpill buzzwords lol. Don't you see that this sentence makes ZERO sense for someone who is not into this kind of stuff (Rollo's blog etc.).

    This whole thing is not about being alpha/beta, but it's about being aware or not of all those dynamics between men, women and society that interest us lol.

    It seems obvious to US that marrying Jolie was not a smart move, but only because we are basically super specialized nerds who are into this stuff.
    The mainstream does not encourage this type of reflection AT ALL, it's more like "overlook her past and her age because LOVE"

    Just like a fat guy eating whole grains muesli for breakfast is being mocked by the hardcore LCHF/keto crown. The fat guy just doen't know that what he does is not efficient, and can even endanger his health : he is just following what the mainstream say is good.

    It's a matter of knowledge/information in my opinon

  24. SFER

    “If Brad would have married a rando <25YO 10 in 2000, she would be overweight with half his money by now"

    Take "Brad" out of that sentence and put in "a beta" and you get the same outcome…

    "You can talk about screening but incentives are also important and movie stars stay hot…"

    Screening is vital. And incentives are important… you can be and act alpha and that alone will provide her an incentive to stay hot… No KJ’ing here…

  25. Klem

    some good points… I suggest that Brad is the typical guy for who marriage was “filling a void” that Rollo writes about… and yes BP conditioned…

    but this

    “Look at all those redpill buzzwords lol. Don’t you see that this sentence makes ZERO sense for someone who is not into this kind of stuff…

    Look at all those redpill buzzwords lol. Don’t you see that this sentence makes ZERO sense for someone who is not into this kind of stuff”

    This is NOT some super secret society new stuff… this was lore of old…

    What would your great grandfather have said to you when you told him you were going to marry Angelina? Or your great grandmother for that matter?

    This is the crux of the issue.

    When KFG is saying “The literature is thousands of years old. ” he ain’t kidding…

    Nothing is new under the sun…

  26. Some thoughts here.

    When I was in the military, I knew many “married” couples who got hitched purely for the military housing and financial benefits. The guy and girl came to a business understanding that the marriage was only for the financial benefits, and sex was fair game both inside and outside the marriage.

    Mercenary though that may sound, those were the longest lasting marriages on post. The relevance – a modern man in 2016 almost has to view his marriage as a business proposition first and a relationship second.

    Kids? Doesn’t matter. Family stability? Doesn’t matter to the women. Love? Reeeeaallly doesn’t matter to them either.
    Cash and social value do matter. Plenty of women are married to men they despise because she gets tangible financial benefits from it. Plenty of women leave perfectly good men because they’ve got a better financial deal lined up – see Rollos entry on War Brides and his own family history on beach swinging.

    Keeping the woman happy is an unavoidable consequence for a man wanting to be present in his kids’ lives. The most efficient way to do that is follow the military culture – marry a woman and treat it as a cash deal. You guys share money, tax benefits,a home, etc , have some kids- but it’s ultimately a negotiated merger of assets. Don’t even bother with the notion of sexual exclusivity or emotional connection.

    You do your thing sexually and she does hers,because monogamy isn’t in the cards for her or for you as a man. Why expend energy trying to keep her from fucking the poolboy? That’s effort better directed at gaming the pool boy’s college age female peers.

    Just make it clear the point of the exercise is the kids, not her or “true wuuv”. She wants out? You get half custody and in exchange she gets a lump sum of money upfront as a payoff to avoid a custody battle- settle it out of court, as it were.

    Yes you’re buying access to your kids. Yes, life ain’t fair. But as the latest celebrity marriage implosion shows, doing things The Old Way doesn’t work anymore. Men wanting access to their kids have to negotiate ; just marrying and hoping for the best is asking to get cleaned out when the girl poses that age old question to herself :”what have you done for me lately?”

    Id wager Mr Pitt married because he wanted some degree of permanent say in how his kids were raised- he didn’t realize as far as the law is concerned they’re HER children and he is merely a guest at her leisure. His lawyers will get that point across in the months to come.

  27. ” . . . a fat guy eating whole grains muesli for breakfast is . . .”

    . . . religious. It’s a religion circa 10,000 years old, but it was given a major boost by nutballs like Graham, White and Kellogg.

    It’s a pretty hard sell when you try to point out to an atheist that they are following the Seventh Day Adventist dogma. There’s a lot of solid folk knowledge out there, but scraping the religion out of it isn’t always easy.

    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015003234419;view=1up;seq=7

  28. WD

    “a modern man in 2016 almost has to view his marriage as a business proposition first and a relationship second.”

    Hmmm seems like what is happening in ‘subcultures” right? UMC/Religious, Hindi arranged marriages etc…

    Just like the old days…

  29. Vasagel will definitely have an impact on M/F relationships, because it gives men control over their own reproductive future and takes back that leverage that women currently own, lock stock and barrel.

    Right now the right to be a parent is solely a women’s issue, because as a man whether you want to or not be one is immaterial compared to her wishes. Vasagel would give men a solid vote over the who, what, where and why, plus a lock over paternity issues.

    Because of that, I can see the FDA blocking this for years to come, regardless of the benefit to couples everywhere. It’s too dangerous a thing to leave in the hands of men, just like masculinity is right now.

    Can’t wait to see how this all plays out. Great essay!

  30. @Sentient

    “This is NOT some super secret society new stuff… this was lore of old…”

    I would argue that TODAY it is super secret society stuff!

    I don’t even disagree with you regarding the old books, there might be some truth in them, but what interests me is to take this these truths, and add stuff that is relevant in 2016, in order for guys to maximize their happiness within their relationships.

    Since the current model clearly does not work, but the old stuff is also largely inapplicable today, because of the changes Yareally highlighted (social media, women working, feminism etc.).

  31. I believe the human race is doomed because the post modern social milieu teaches women to be unfit mothers. The hand that strangles the baby in its cradle destroys the world.

  32. @kfg: Very hilarious. The Battlestar Galactica painting seems to have a couple of tipplers depicted. Must be mead rather than beer.

  33. @ Ya

    “Like, to me a Cluster B is just a normal girl with no behavior filter really”

    Needs to be clarified here that BPD is a medical condition, and is not the same as the entitlement and careless lifestyles >25yo girls are being conditioned into these days.

    It also poses problems for up and coming RP men, IMO, because their behaviors are so extreme that they can deceive you into thinking you’re very high value, and regarded as Alpha, when in reality it’s their EXTREME abandonment issues that are making them grovel to you and “defer” to you.

    It isn’t real respect; it isn’t real deference. They are NOT CAPABLE of real respect or real deference because of their illness. I’m thinking that the rules of Game/Hypergamy and Alpha/Beta don’t even apply AT ALL in BPD situations. They are mentally ill, not mere extensions of typical females. It’s apples and oranges.

    Their world is so utterly and completely consumed with anxiety and despair and a black void where a normal person’s sense of self/identity would normally be that they cannot function normally in relationships.

    I will dare to say that Hypergamy itself has next to nothing to do with BPD, considering that committing suicide basically violates every possible biological imperative evolution could have instilled in anyone. BPD has a very high rate of suicide.

    Big difference between a normal girl going through the Rolodex in response to a Soft Next vs. a BPD girl trying to hang herself after “Soft Nexting” (not talking to) her for 8 hours.

    See: Jim Carrey’s ex gf who killed herself after a few days of not hearing from him. And a history of being 100% dependent on her relationship with him in order to be able to function as a human being even remotely.

    Rampant open Hypergamy =/= BPD.

    This is an important distinction to make, especially for newbies, because especially if a BPD is your FIRST relationship, and you’re reading TRM and about “Beta” and “Alpha” and thinking that BPD girls are just like normal girls on steroids, you will think that you’ll be able to turn it around if you just act differently.

    This plays DIRECTLY into their hand: thinking that you’re too “Beta” to deal with them, and if only you were a patented Alpha Badass, everything would be fine, the relationship issues would go away and everything would work out.

    Thinking that it’s something YOU’RE doing wrong, which compounds the feelings of guilt and anxiety about what the BPD girlfriend is going to do to herself next, whether it’s self injury, another suicide attempt, or actually successfully committing suicide for real.

    There is no “she thinks of you as a Beta provider” or “you can tell she doesn’t see you as Alpha because ______.”

    BPD’s do not register Alpha or Beta, IMO. Whoever they latch onto, which might as well be ANYONE, “Beta” or “Alpha”…..becomes their 100% source of support, and will be seen as 100% responsible for 100% of their emotional well-being 100% of the time, and even the SLIGHTEST fluctuation in care-taking, that triggers the SLIGHTEST feeling of abandonment, could very easily result in a suicide attempt, or some extreme form of self-abuse that might as well be a suicide attempt, like a narcotic binge.

    Their outbursts aren’t shit tests as much as they are manifestations of mental illness that are aimed at manipulating the person to stay in the relationship, because their fear of being alone is so overwhelming they can’t cope with it.

    Or simply manifestations of self-destruction as a result of that inability to cope. Like binge drinking, overdosing on painkillers, various suicide attempts, abuse of every drug under the sun, etc. It is a fucking absolute nightmare.

    If attempting suicide is on her Rolodex, that’s when you know there’s a problem that goes beyond Hypergamy/Alpha/Beta.

  34. Lol.

    Some things never ever change.

    To throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water would be an enormous miscalculation.

    Use what works.

    There are numerous things about the female that can never change.

    Even in 2016, believe it or not.

    Don’t look for crutches.

  35. Softek

    “If attempting suicide is on her Rolodex, that’s when you know there’s a problem that goes beyond Hypergamy/Alpha/Beta.”

    But what YOU do still matters… what have you done to exit this relationship? Is that inaction alpha or beta?

    Come on man…

  36. “BPD’s do not register Alpha or Beta . . .”

    It’s God or Devil, in binary. There is no spectrum between and they will switch from to the other in an instant.

  37. I’m interested to see what happens with Vasalgel as far as marketing goes, whether it gets blocked indefinitely, or what. That should be pretty telling about the FI response to it, and awareness of the potential effects it could have if it hit the market.

    The cultural relevance of simply HAVING something like Vasalgel would be huge. It’s a bold statement if nothing else. Alphas prone to fucking raw would now have an option to get a quick procedure done and then have the (probably minimal) anxiety they had about fucking raw go away.

    While simultaneously removing power from the women they’re fucking. Got cum all over your dick, and she tries to grab it and stick it in her pussy while she’s on top of you? Good. Go ahead. Have fun. It’s no longer viable as a power play, the whole “But I want to feeeeeel you” deal…..because pregnancy is now off the table, except by the man’s call.

    I would get Vasalgel myself. That sounds awesome. Of course fucking raw feels better. And if you’re after pure hedonistic pleasure, raw is far superior to condoms. Biologically we’re fucking to spread our seed, but take that out of the equation and the real goal is to maximize hedonistic pleasure. Vasalgel would be great for that. No more worrying if your GF or wife is lying or not about being on birth control.

    Kind of a moot point with STD’s though. It might feel better while you’re fucking but a week later when you’re taking a piss it might not seem like a great idea.

    So yeah. I’d say the cultural relevance and statement of just HAVING a product like Vasalgel would potentially be big. Think about it: the real power could just be that it EXISTS and is AVAILABLE, more than men necessarily actually using it.

    It’s a new card on the table for men. The power balance is kind of like a Cold War type deal: a new male form of birth control to rival the multiple female forms of birth control. Birth control arms race of sorts.

  38. @ kfg

    “It’s God or Devil, in binary. There is no spectrum between and they will switch from to the other in an instant.”

    Yep.

    @ Sentient

    If she hadn’t tried to actually kill herself it wouldn’t feel this complicated. Rollo asked before what it would take for me to leave, like her fucking another guy. Honestly I haven’t had any remote concern about that happening, and at the forefront my biggest fear is that if I walk she will commit suicide.

    It doesn’t help that she’s actually made attempts before, like having had to have her stomach pumped at a hospital after taking entire bottles of pills. Her actually dying is a very real possibility because she’s actually tried to do it before.

    I feel like I’d be able to walk comfortably as long as I knew she wasn’t going to kill herself and would be able to move on with her life. I know that’s beside the point but that is really hard for me to get over. My classmate killing himself at 16 years old deeply affected me and I wasn’t even friends with him. I don’t like even thinking about how much it would affect me if she followed through on it.

    At the same time I have been pulling back a lot. I just got that book SJF was talking about, “When I Say No I Feel Guilty.” Already got No More Mr. Nice Guy. I’ve got a lot more work to do on myself. My own life completely separate from her isn’t doing that great and that’s my own issue.

    Book sounds like it’s right up my alley, and I’m looking forward to what I’ll find in there. Not to mention money people owe me for work that I haven’t been hounding them for. The issues I’ve been having being manipulated in this relationship isn’t unique…..rest of my life is having the same issues too. Lots to do as usual.

    At least I can say I’m never bored. I don’t think I’ve been bored a single time in my life since I was like…..I don’t know, 10 or something. I actually don’t think I’ve ever been bored. It’s very hard for me to even understand what that word means.

  39. Great essay. However, men have been able to get a vasectomy for years now. Even with that relatively minor procedure (as compared to open heart surgery) the FI and social conditioning still progressed to the point we are currently at today. So, my question is can a male birth control really swing a bit of momentum towards the Male sexual agenda?

  40. Softek

    “I feel like I’d be able to walk comfortably as long as I knew she wasn’t going to kill herself ”

    Just remember you chose not to walk away long before the suicide attempt… you keep digging a deeper hole by waiting around…

    When would it be better to leave – after the second, third, fourth or fifth attempt?

  41. @ Sentient

    You’re right.

    Same lessons to learn with business and Game. Ultimately it boils down to Beta passivity vs. Alpha assertiveness. Just started reading that book today, hoping I’ll find some techniques that can help me. Scrib also mentioned Mystery Method and I’ve been reading that too. As much as I hate to admit it there’s still the core fear that I won’t be able to attract another girl. I like Mystery’s writing style a lot and how objective he is, as I tend to attach personal feelings to rejection instead of just seeing it as a lack of skill, which can be improved.

  42. For those wishing to see what a real Hollywood alpha looks and acts like, here is an exposition by Robert Mitchum…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrMgZpwKF3k

    Part 1 he tells the secret of a 30 year marriage, but worth catching the whole interview, even this late in his career…

    Now how might his early life have shaped his mental state?

    Throughout Mitchum’s childhood, he was known as a prankster, often involved in fistfights and mischief. When he was 12, his mother sent Mitchum to live with his grandparents in Felton, Delaware, where he was promptly expelled from his middle school for scuffling with the principal. A year later, in 1930, he moved in with his older sister, to New York’s Hell’s Kitchen. After being expelled from Haaren High School, he left his sister and traveled throughout the country on railroad cars, taking a number of jobs including ditch-digging for the Civilian Conservation Corps and professional boxing. He experienced numerous adventures during his years as one of the Depression era’s “wild boys of the road.” At age 14 in Savannah, Georgia, he was arrested for vagrancy and put on a local chain gang. By Mitchum’s own account, he escaped and returned to his family in Delaware. During this time, while recovering from injuries that nearly cost him a leg, he met the woman he would marry, a teenaged Dorothy Spence. He soon went back on the road, eventually riding the rails to California

    Fascinating…

  43. @sentient

    Game is still just mimicry of alpha quality, it is not of itself representative of authentic alpha. It is a simulacrum.
    It can and does fool women, and men (as demonstrated here) as well (paper alpha). But in the end if you do not develop actual authentic Alpha traits, your inner beta will out, the mask slips, poor choices made and consequences suffered…

    I agree with this but with some clarifying points that I think you’d agree with.

    GAME, as we think of it, relating to routines, etc. stacks, and whatnot is just another form of faking it til you make it.

    TO ME, that type of ‘game’ is just a way to GET YOUR FOOT IN THE DOOR for starting to live an authentic, passionate, awesome life with women. like, sooner or later some hot chick is going to fall for your routines lol.

    but once you get your foot in the door, the onus is on you to start opening yourself up to and living your life and gaining those hardcore reference experiences that will just turn you alpha.

    and really, it is all about circumstance. once you’re fucking 5-10 new girls a month, you just won’t have time or any inclination to give a shit about half the things they say, because you’ve heard it before, you understand how chicks are, and you’re just kind of rolling with it.

    at FIRST you will make stupid beta choices, but you will LEARN from those mistakes….it’s all really practical — you just CAN’T really be that needy or whatever with women if you’re living with an abundance of women in your life: you don’t have the time or emotional resources.

    you’ll naturally start doing shit like going or the SDL or SNL because you start to understand that women thrive and live in MOMENTS and that this MOMENT is probably your ONE SHOT.

    but that’s only if you’re living that life and YOU’RE BEING TESTED.

    the brad pitts and chad thundercocks of the world suffer from the fact that they rarely, if ever, get TESTED. you need the TESTS to develop that strong inner frame.

    this weekend was crazy…

    SNL friday, SDL sat (didn’t go to bed those two days), so got this one chick finally to hang out sunday morning, and i figured i’d go in with more a Tyler strat of kinda wowing her…

    ….BOMB-FAIL….

    turns out when you’re operating off of 3 hours sleep between two days the aggression kinda sputters. we had a nice pleasant convo and chat, did normal shit….threw popcorn into each other’s mouths….but, while she was older (32), she was also still pretty f-in hot….(I’d say almost a 9 despite the age)….

    i offered to bounce to another venue to get some more drinks — she had to ‘think about it’ —> she gave me a look when she said it, sort of squinty eyed, as if she were considering whether she should make a bad decision—- and run errands….

    https://media.giphy.com/media/vMiCDfoKdJP0c/giphy.gif

    welp…that strat only works every time 60% of the time.

  44. There is good game and bad game.

    There is conscious game and unconscious game.

    But it’s all the games people play.

    You cannot not game.

  45. Scray

    “TO ME, that type of ‘game’ is just a way to GET YOUR FOOT IN THE DOOR for starting to live an authentic, passionate, awesome life with women”

    Nice. amen and amen… and slip dynamic in there why don’t ya…

    And this “while she was older (32), she was also still pretty f-in hot….(I’d say almost a 9 despite the age)”

    Yup. There are very, very hot early 30’s women. If someone is going on about only 20YO’s etc. they do not get out that much or they are pretty young or a combo of the two. And like I said in the last post FR, as you get older as a guy your range just gets wider and wider… from teens to whatever gets your dick twitching…

  46. YaReally Sentient HABD Scray Hank Tom and PUA guys

    So a quieter evening out Wednesday – what I think of as “Sentient-style” game.

    I had to attend a work networking drinks event thing anyway, in a suit so I decided to check out some of the classier old-school hotel bars nearby. This was a different part of town – not the usual trendier hotel bars I go to – this is some older more traditional high end places.

    It was a good vibe and good to get to know new places but it involved a lot of scanning venues and jumping in and out for targets – it’s just not high target volume like in a club (but quality generally good even the older women tend to be in shape and put together well).

    BTW – the work drinks thing was interesting. It’s amazing how in those events, I am instantly the most interesting guy there by miles after doing actual cold approach. It’s like a minor superpower. Everyone else is boring by comparison. There were a number of cute girls but in a role reversal kind of thing I was focussed on my networking goals for the evening – i.e., finding the older more successful dudes so I kind of blanked a lot of girls which was quite funny..probably they aren’t used to that.

    Walked into one bar (not one of the hotel bars, just a regular bar nearby) and a mid 20s cute blonde HB7 came to the bar beside me and the bartender started singing Happy Birthday to her and then her friends (at a table nearby) sang too, and then I clapped along with the rest of them.

    Then I wished her Happy Birthday (she was still next to me at the bar by herself – her friends were within earshot) and she smiled and said thank you. I was like “Yeah, you look good for 50” and she absolutely lit up and blew right open.

    Started kino-ing me and laughing and the emotional spike was strong. She called her BFF over and was like laughing saying “You know..this guy said I was 50!!” and the friend (HB 6.5 mid-twenties) was all like mock-offended “What did you say?? She’s beautiful and lovely and she’s my friend! She’s 22!!”

    And then I figured I wasn’t going to make the same mistake as on Saturday and I wanted to diffuse the cock-block, so I put my arm around the BFF and went “I like her, I like this girl..she’s defending you well – she’s a good friend” – and that went down well. Then a much older guy in his 40s from their group came over (may be BFF’s boyfriend – not sure) and they repeated it to him and I couldn’t quite hear what he said but he looked a bit questioning (not hostile really) and I was like “Yeah man, but I’m 70..that’s how I know 50 is a great age!” and I kept smiling and he went away.

    Then the BFF asks me like “Hey who are you here with?” and (since it is a small bar) I pointed outside and was like “Yeah I’m just waiting for my friends out there” and then she left and I was left again with Birthday Girl at the bar (I am assuming this was her approving me and leaving me with Birthday Girl, although their table was only a few feet away).

    Then I made some more conversation with her and she was engaged and then she looked at her phone for a few seconds and just then some more of her friends came in (she’s still looking at her phone) and things sort of died out because I blanked on what next.

    In retrospect I should have just literally introduced myself and taken her hand (as Julien says in PIMP) to get more kino going and then just said anything to keep convo going – but I was “trapped in the lie” as Sentient said – any of them could have looked out the window and seen I had no friends waiting out there, and I didn’t know how to dig myself out of the hole and credibly join their group..

    Then I sort of skulked off.

    Bit later, classy hotel lobby, cute older (i.e., thirties) blonde. Could stand to lose a bit of weight but still HB7 with makeup I’d say. Very well put together – you can just see the money and the professional job dripping off her.

    Sat down on the chair next to her while she fiddles with her phone. I could just tell from her body language she’d be receptive to an approach – I’m not even sure why – I could just feel it. Zero AA – I KNEW she’d open. So I waited about 20 secs and opened her with “Waiting for someone is the best time to catch up on emails isn’t it” and she blew open and smiled and engaged fully – exactly as I expected. [In retrospect I should have used Sentient’s “Tinder or Pokemon Go” line – DAMMIT]. We had a brief chat and I made her laugh for like a minute and then her cab came and she had to go (just as I was starting to think about Sentient’s line that solo women in hotel bars after 9pm are easy prey).

    But good interaction.

    Then I had dinner alone at a trendy burger bar where you actually get served at the bar so had a fun chat with the bartender/waiter guy and the waitresses and he was telling me about how the group of bartenders and waitresses like to go out and party and they were going out later that night and he showed me pictures on the wall etc. Bartender was hilarious – not ESL, but his vocabulary wasn’t great and he and one of the waitresses (easy HB7.5 – maybe 8 with makeup) were discussing the words “viral” and “virile” and getting mixed up about the meanings – they didn’t quite realise they are two separate words. I nearly choked laughing on my fries and then chatted to them and explained it..

    BTW – on Tuesday the doormen at both the places I went to recognised me and shook my hand and waved me in with a smile. And I seem to be talking a lot more to bartenders and stuff now and getting to know them. This was my regular Latin dance bar and another regular place. So that’s good.t:

    Tonight: Usual Latin dance club to start with and then probably a student place.

    Must do goal for the night: Minimum 3 x cold approach conversations lasting at least ten minutes each to blast through my tendency to let things fizzle after a minute or two even when I get great reactions. if I don’t have 3x of those, I am not allowed to go home, even if it involves stumbling around the streets at 6am.

    As HABD said, I am going to stop thinking about my exact structure or opening lines and think more about projecting my energy, sexuality, laser and subcomms and sharing good vibes and having fun AND STAYING IN SET NO MATTER WHAT.

  47. @sentient

    Yeah, I’d say that it’s still ‘game’ but it’s just where one is at on their journey in the game.

    There are no shortcuts…you’re going to have to grow into the person you pretend you are at the beginning.

    Yup. There are very, very hot early 30’s women.

    Yeah, the ones who take care of themselves can look really good. I personally think that women look their best probably between 25-30 because a lot of them pick up good habits — gym, eating right, better makeup, etc. — and are also still pretty young. They’re probably at their natural best at 20-25 but they usually haven’t learned how to present yet.

  48. Culum

    Good stuff… On the birthday girl, you know you can give her a kiss right?

    If you are alone just say you are out to see what happens, good chance to join their party a bit.

    IT IS OK TO BE OUT ALONE.

    You describe my regular haunts well… LOL

    “I’m not even sure why – I could just feel it. ”

    So you are becoming sentient then….?

    ” We had a brief chat and I made her laugh for like a minute and then her cab came and she had to go”

    Logistics! “What are you up to?” in hotels everyone is up to something or free to get up to something… may have led to going with her etc. Qualify the logistics up front (notice how those birthday girls qualified YOUR logistics up front? remember game is backwards engineered from women)… also always ask the bartender what time they close and when they get busy. especially since you are going back to the same city over and over… You may need to do a lap at 11 for example, when people are coming back from their dinners…

    You might try staying at the dance club tonight until they close (unless there are like zero people of course), ride the whole cycle. and know where you would bounce to for another drink (quieter place) or easy food…

  49. Needs to be clarified here that BPD is a medical condition, and is not the same as the entitlement and careless lifestyles >25yo girls are being conditioned into these days.

    Well, hmm. Let’s drag out the copy of Biology of Desire from last year’s threads and recall a few things.

    Like, hmm, addiction isn’t a choice per se, but it’s also not a disease either. It’s a combination of the inborn desire for dopamine hits with an efficient means of getting that dopamine. The brain activity in “being in love” isn’t all that different from brain activity “being addicted”.

    Still with me? Addicted people have neural pathways grooved in their brains that encourage one dopamine-hit activity vs. others, and eventually that dopamine-hit activity, or behavior, gets rewarded enough that it dominates the brain, therefore it dominates activity, therefore it dominates behavior. Lots of internal and external cues are involved.

    Recall the classic study of men who used heroin over in Viet Nam during that war? The fear was that they’d all bring that habit back with them, but the vast, vast majority didn’t. They came back, and they didn’t want that stuff. Even more interesting, men who wound up back in ‘Nam for another tour often started using heroin again. So the stressful environment of that particular war in that particular place was involved in them using heroin. Put them back in California or Detroit or Florida and often they just said no to that drug.

    Still with me? Internal reward system plus external stimuli plus dopamine hit from the behavior can lead to habituation.

    Some react differently than others to dopamine hits. Some people try opiates one time, say “Hmm” and never return to it. Others try the same stuff and are totally enraptured by it.

    If there are more real-deal BPD women as a percentage of population now than 30 years ago, there could be all sorts of factors and cofactors and confounding variables. But one of the most obvious changes is how the social surroundings now reward bad behavior by women. The whole YuGOGrrl subculture, the overt and covert preference for girls vs. boys in k-12 the over demonization of men in colleges now, the overt and covert discrimination against men in far too many buisnesses, all adds up to a massive ego stroke for any female.

    Some women will respond to the massive social stroking differently than others. It is a reasonable question to ponder: is the entire social structure most especially including social media, pushing some number of women into BPD behavior? Bear in mind that BPD’s can and do get what they want, and that rewards their behavior.

    Yeah, it’s a “diagnosis” but like many menal health “diagnoses” it’s a behavioral checklist, not anything that can be tested on a lab slide or observed via an MRI. So it’s a judgement call on the part of the therapist from the start.

    Let me put it this way: some percentage of men are Betas from birth, a whole lot more men are Betaized by social pressure, social conditioning, social punish/reward systems. We can watch a man for a while and reach some consensus (except for Brad Pitt) on his betaization. It’s a collection of behaviors.

    BPD is a collection of behavors. It’s almost entirely found in women. Some women may be BPD from birth, others are surely conditioned that way.

    It’s probably safe to say that men in 2016 need to be a whole lot more aware of BPD than men in 1986 had to be, for whatever reason.

  50. Softek
    I feel like I’d be able to walk comfortably as long as I knew she wasn’t going to kill herself and would be able to move on with her life.

    Then you are hostage to her feelings. How many years of being held hostage do you think you can stand?

    Do you want to look back 10 years from now and say, “What did I do with that decade, besides dance like a monkey every time she had badfeelz”?

    If she gets pregnant, you will be tied to her for 20 years. No question.

    How many years do you want to be her hostage?

  51. “BPD is a collection of behavors. It’s almost entirely found in women. Some women may be BPD from birth, others are surely conditioned that way.”

    Just to be different, I’m going to be the same, that is to go with the dominant hypothesis.

    The collection of BPD behaviours very closely match the behaviours of a short, but important developmental stage that occurs at age 6, when one moves from a purely childish perspective and begins developing as an adult. A chief feature of this stage is black & white thinking.

    So whatever causes it happens while they are in that development stage that makes them not merely retarded, but developmentally fixed in place. The problem is that they have adult agency. Unlike drug addictions that may come and go depending upon environment, BPD seems to be forever, their brains getting their positive fix from the wrong things in an extinct proof manner.

    It isn’t simply a matter of conditioning, it is, in its way, actual brain damage. Or perhaps mind damage would be more accurate.

    It is likely tied to a traumatic daddy issue, which is why it would be so prevalent in females.

    A daddy being divorced (or even simply being away at a critical moment) from an abusive mother is an obvious possible source of the trauma.

  52. “… and hipsters think they invented these tattoos…”

    Hipsters think being able use Twitter on a phone makes them technologists.

  53. @Sentient
    “Yeah you go all DIVORCE RAPE! then forget about custody issues… then when the absence of DIVORCE RAPE! is pointed out you go back to custody issues…”

    I’ve never forgotten about custody issues. But custody issues come with having a kid, so a guy can’t prevent the possibility of having to deal with them. Divorce-rape however, is entirely preventable, by not getting married.

    “The rest are BP and beta to the core.”

    lol ok there. Today I learned alphas only do a very specific set of jobs, please provide us all with a list of jobs that are Sentient Approved Alphas. What cars do they drive, as well? What brand of clothing is the most Alpha?

    “Which leads to Brad Pitt choosing as his first wife America’s Epiphany Chick (32!) and then leaving her for what anyone would say is damaged goods, an already twice divorced 30YO single mom and a known headcase to boot. Have you heard of missionary marriage?”

    Crazy hey. If only he hadn’t been socially conditioned to think that “love conquers all” and “legal marriage guarantees attraction” etc

    You have a massive issue with nuance. “ALPHAS DON’T DO THIS JOB!! EVERYONE WHO DOES THIS JOB IS BETA, EXCEPT SOME OF THE ALPHAS WHO DO IT!!! A GUY WHOS ALPHA DOESNT GET MARRIED TO X GIRL!!!111”

    You’re just doing the classic cartoon character alpha stereotype shit.

    “Why would he choose these 30YO women for monogamous relationships and not the hot tight <25YO 10s??? To say nothing of the millions of 7,8,9's he could have chosen from?"

    Because he was socially conditioned with good ol' religious values that told him monogamy was the secret to happiness and a wife and family and that NAWALT. Whoops, guess someone should've told him the truth.

    "Gee I wonder what was missing in his life?"

    Exactly the things I talk about.

    "The MEN are damaged and OLD strategies need to be discussed and IMPLEMENTED…"

    Old strategies are demonized in 2016. See Brad Pitt being slandered by his ex-wife, for an example.

    "Game is still just mimicry of alpha quality, it is not of itself representative of authentic alpha. It is a simulacrum."

    lol ok Jezebel writer. "GAME IS JUST FAKING!!!1 EVENTUALLY SHE'LL SEE THE REAL YOUUU!!" lol How many times do we have to explain fake it till you make it to you?

    "so Brad Pitt choosing to marry a post 30 twice divorced Alpha widow single Mom likely BPD woman is not a guy having a few “chodements”…"

    It's a guy who was massively misinformed by his social conditioning. Which we should be helping change in future generations of men.

    @kfg
    "“How COULD he know better, no one taught him how to.”"

    "You didn’t learn that fire burns when your mother told you not to touch the fire.
    You learned that fire burns when you stuck your finger in the pretty flame."

    This sounds all super cool and zen. But how did you learn that falling from a 50 story building would kill you? How did you learn not to stick your hand in a garbage disposal? How did you learn not to let a truck drive over you? Do you think you would survive being in space with no space suit? Or do warnings and guidance possibly help educate people to learn without having to actually do everything for themselves?

    "Give her directions and lead her."

    What's the optimal way to drive a car to win this race in the fastest time? Drive it. Not real useful for teaching guys lol

    "The trick is separating the religious practice from the practical."

    And see what can still be done in 2016 without being demonized and having her friends/family/social media/etc painting you as a toxic male.

    @Klem @Sentient
    "Well, to me it looks more like social conditioning tbh."

    That's what it looks like to ANYONE with common sense lol

    "Outside of the redpill/pua crowd, do you really know many guys, even super alpha, who purposefully go after hot chicks 10years their junior, when they themselves are entering their 30s?"

    Exactly. If Brad Pitt in his prime was a "beta chode", then 99% of the Naturals I've known, who will fuck anything and end up dating/settling with a variety of girls etc are all beta chodes. We might as well throw "alpha" out the window entirely.

    "They do it because "it's the right thing to do", and in the mainstream there are NO alternatives, unless you build your identity around being a 100% player like DiCaprio."

    Exactly. The reality is these guys are socially conditioned to NOT go for those 25yo girls are being conditioned into these days.”

    Right, but that said when the end result of the two looks almost exactly the same to the guy dating her, it stops really mattering. It goes back to what I said waaay back about Cluster-B stuff, it doesn’t matter what the specific diagnosis is or if there even IS an official medical one, all that it comes down to is: do her actions cross your boundaries or not?

    And society is fueling the “id” flames to where the default for more and more women is behavior that crosses boundaries that make them not great LTR candidates, in 2016’s culture.

    “BPD has a very high rate of suicide”

    High rate, or high ATTEMPTED/THREATENED rate (aka, to get you to pay attention to her or keep you trapped with her crazy)? Either way though, my point is the same: when the end behavior looks the same regardless, it doesn’t really matter from the guy’s end WHAT she has or doesn’t have. He needs to GTFO.

    “Whoever they latch onto, which might as well be ANYONE, “Beta” or “Alpha”…..becomes their 100% source of support, and will be seen as 100% responsible for 100% of their emotional well-being 100% of the time, and even the SLIGHTEST fluctuation in care-taking, that triggers the SLIGHTEST feeling of abandonment, could very easily result in a suicide attempt, or some extreme form of self-abuse that might as well be a suicide attempt, like a narcotic binge.”

    Right, but my point is: does that paragraph describe just the Cluster-B/BPD girls with the actual medical condition…or more and more in 2016, does that paragraph describe MOST girls? And is that trend headed for a reversal (and for what reason) or is it likely to continue and get worse? (these are rhetorical questions of course lol)

    “If attempting suicide is on her Rolodex, that’s when you know there’s a problem that goes beyond Hypergamy/Alpha/Beta.”

    Whether it’s on her Rolodex because she’s officially diagnosed with a Cluster-B/BPD medical condition, or just a full “running on her id” Kardashian-culture influenced chick, the guy involved should GTFO lol

    “If she hadn’t tried to actually kill herself it wouldn’t feel this complicated. Rollo asked before what it would take for me to leave, like her fucking another guy. Honestly I haven’t had any remote concern about that happening, and at the forefront my biggest fear is that if I walk she will commit suicide.”

    Man, I don’t wanna say we warned you about this a year+ ago but we warned you about this. Back when I was first responding to your posts she hadn’t threatened suicide yet and I told you it was coming.

    “I feel like I’d be able to walk comfortably as long as I knew she wasn’t going to kill herself and would be able to move on with her life.”

    If you’re SERIOUS that you would leave her, start googling about how to safely leave her (gotta be some kind of suicide watch shit you can call or at least suicide help lines to talk to, other guys’ experiences with how they left their BPDs etc).

    But the question is if you would ACTUALLY leave her or if this just sounds good in your head but being in this situation is actually your comfort zone now and you wouldn’t be able to leave the relationship even if you had a way to get out without her killing herself.

    “As much as I hate to admit it there’s still the core fear that I won’t be able to attract another girl.”

    That’s why I said if you would ACTUALLY leave her. ’cause I don’t think you would tbh. If you would, you’d be googling the second you finish this post, looking for the best way to leave her or looking for suicide hotline type services or cops or whatever to contact to explain the situation to and get advice from.

    It’s a lot easier and more exciting to stay in your situation until it explodes so you can keep writing yourself off as “too damn damaged, never had a chance”.

    @Sentient @Softek
    “Just remember you chose not to walk away long before the suicide attempt… you keep digging a deeper hole by waiting around…When would it be better to leave – after the second, third, fourth or fifth attempt?”

    For once I agree with Sentient on something. I wrote way back a year+ ago that if you get to this point you’ll DREAM about how easy it would’ve been to leave before her first suicide threat. I really hoped you wouldn’t end up being a warning study for other guys. 🙁

    @Sentient
    In 2016, Robert Mitchum would have been put on ADD meds in school until he was too doped up to keep disrupting the class and fight with other boys.

    @Scray
    “but, while she was older (32), she was also still pretty f-in hot….(I’d say almost a 9 despite the age)…”

    WHY ARE YOU SUCH A BETA INTERACTING WITH A 32 YEAR OLD!?!? YOU DON’T PASS SENTIENT’S ALPHA TEST YOU PAPER ALPHA!!!11

    @Sentient
    “There are very, very hot early 30’s women. If someone is going on about only 20YO’s etc. they do not get out that much or they are pretty young or a combo of the two.”

    lol ya there are hot 30+yo women, they just come with a shitload of baggage that isn’t worth dealing with most of the time and they catch feels for you faster and demand ultimatums and bring drama.

    “And like I said in the last post FR, as you get older as a guy your range just gets wider and wider… from teens to whatever gets your dick twitching…”

    Fucking lol You’re contradicting your own rules for alphas dude. Brad Pitt is a beta chode because he fucked a 30yo, but you’re the Super Dynamic Alpha because you fuck 30yos. Ok!

    @Anonymous Reader
    Your BPD post is basically my thoughts on it too. And again like I stress to Softek, the end result is a girl who’s wildly out of control and who’s behavior will get WORSE the more she’s rewarded with your attention staying in the relationship.

    @kfg
    “The collection of BPD behaviours very closely match the behaviours of a short, but important developmental stage that occurs at age 6, when one moves from a purely childish perspective and begins developing as an adult. A chief feature of this stage is black & white thinking. So whatever causes it happens while they are in that development stage that makes them not merely retarded, but developmentally fixed in place.”

    Finally a diagnosis for why it’s so hard to explain nuanced things to Sentient, the poor guy must be BPD!

  54. Gamma King – Act 1 Scene 1

    Yareally enters stage left: ” “…

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You really have trouble fitting things into your narrative… getting odd.

    Like why a “super Alpha” like Brad Pitt would choose to be monogamous with a series of 30 YO women who according to you “come with a shitload of baggage that isn’t worth dealing with most of the time”… ?

  55. kfg on BPD
    It isn’t simply a matter of conditioning, it is, in its way, actual brain damage. Or perhaps mind damage would be more accurate.

    It is likely tied to a traumatic daddy issue, which is why it would be so prevalent in females.

    A daddy being divorced (or even simply being away at a critical moment) from an abusive mother is an obvious possible source of the trauma.

    Well, interesting hypothesis, and it could be tested. If anyone with funding really wanted to know, that is. Thinking as I type.

    The ‘itch’ to monkey branch certainly seems to come on in women when the youngest child is able to fend for itself to some degree, often in the 3 YO to 5 YO bracket. The 2-years-to-divorce clock would then lead to a break up in the 5 YO to 6 YO age. The 20-somethings I have worked with or around whose parents split up when they were in high school or older do not seem to be as damaged as their younger sibs. It’s probably axiomatic to say that the younger the split happens the worse the effects, down to age 5 or so, below that it’s hard to say.

    Praxologically, screening for any sort of LTR must include marriage history of her parents. A divorce when she was under 10 must be viewed with extreme caution.

    Finally we have something concrete to put in the “screening” category beyond “does she obey”. Seems to me that the BPD’s can pretend to obey for a while…

    Also this means that women from UMC backgrounds and from religious backgrounds will be lower risk, each for their own reason. The UMC are not ubermensch as some seem to believe, but will tend to have more future time orientation than working people. Tend to. Not “will”.

    Religious UMC would be rather a unicorn, however any man getting involved with such a woman would have to sign up for all of the religion. That probably screens out a lot of men.

  56. Hipsters think being able use Twitter on a phone makes them technologists.

    Hey, they can use Tinder and Grindr too, while playing Candy Crush, so there!

  57. “But how did you learn that falling from a 50 story building would kill you?”

    By the time I was 5 I had amassed a great deal of experience in falling from things.

    “How did you learn not to stick your hand in a garbage disposal?”

    I’m not sure I have. Adults stick their hands in garbage disposals, snowblowers, lawn mowers and bandsaws all the time. Go talk to an ER doc. He’s got stories.

    I do, however, have scars on my hands to help remind me to be cautious around sharp, pointy things. Especially if they make great whirring noises.

    “How did you learn not to let a truck drive over you?”

    A truck drove over me. Before that I learned not to induced a certain psychological state in my mother which occurred if she saw me walking into traffic.

    “Do you think you would survive being in space with no space suit?”

    No, but I base that at least in part from having experienced varying degrees of pressure and temperature, so I understand “lots worse than that.”

    Everybody has a wealth of experience that they draw from, without even remembering where it came from.

    Did Hank learn game by reading Mystery Method?

    No. He learned game by going to the mall and failing, again, and again, and again.

  58. It was nice knowing you Brad:

    http://www.tmz.com/2016/09/22/brad-pitt-child-abuse-investigation/

    What are the odds that a AAA celebrity power-couple like that, has an incident like that, and NO ONE mentions it on social media? Not a single person on the flight, staff, the guy who’s truck Pitt tried to steal when he “even tried leaving in one of the fuel trucks”, NOBODY is like “hey so uhhh, Brad Pitt just tried to steal my truck #WackyWednesday”?

    VS him maybe raising his voice southern-values style to some misbehaving kids parented by a chick who doesn’t believe in “tough” parenting (aka probably lets them do whatever they want) and her needing an excuse to bail that won’t make her look retarded?

  59. @Sentient
    “Like why a “super Alpha” like Brad Pitt would choose to be monogamous with a series of 30 YO women who according to you “come with a shitload of baggage that isn’t worth dealing with most of the time”… ?”

    How many times do I have to cut and paste “Because he was socially conditioned with good ol’ religious values that told him monogamy was the secret to happiness and a wife and family and that NAWALT. Whoops, guess someone should’ve told him the truth.” before you actually read it?

  60. Sentient

    “Like why a “super Alpha” like Brad Pitt would choose to be monogamous with a series of 30 YO women”

    Because in mainstream society that’s what you do if you want to have kids/a family.
    It’s not really socially acceptable to for a 30+yo dude to find a hot 22yo and knock her up. ESPECIALLY when you are one of the most famous guy in the planet and everyone is watching every second of your private life.

    I think Yareally’s point is that in the context of an LTR, given what we know about hypergamy, dread game etc. Brad Pitt should have been Jolie’s BEST option (who is higher on the food chain than fucking Brad Pitt in terms of status + he has rock solid subcomms aka game + she is way past her prime and DON4T EVEN HAVE BOOBS anymore), therefore she theoretically should not have divorced him. Because she theoretically cant go higher than Brad Pitt.

    But even Brad Pitt could not make a monoLTR work in 2016.
    Which means that it’s probably the type of relationship itself that’s broken, not that “guys need to alpha up” or something.

    I dunno, this seems like a pretty logical conclusion to me

  61. @kfg
    “By the time I was 5 I had amassed a great deal of experience in falling from things.”

    You haven’t fallen from 50 stories, it might not kill you, you don’t know for sure. Have you been eaten by a lion yet? Maybe it won’t hurt you, you don’t know.

    Or you can make educated guesses based on what you’re taught. I can’t believe I have to actually justify “teaching people things gives them knowledge to base decisions on” lol

  62. @Klem
    “I dunno, this seems like a pretty logical conclusion to me”

    You’re the only thing keeping me from jumping off a 50 foot story building to find out if it’ll kill me sometimes. I can’t believe some of the things I have to explain here and how far people can miss the point some days lol

  63. @Rollo
    “Brad was fucked from the moment they hooked up. She is a textbook BPD.”

    Agreed. But all the more reason we should teach guys to screen girls faster (so they aren’t “hooked” before they see the red flags) and to not believe that monogamy or legal marriage will change things.

    Cause right now social conditioning is convincing lambs to walk to the slaughter. We have the ability to try to fix that but it’ll take actual pro-active work to provide resources to teach men, which starts with discussions instead of debating semantics and brushing off anything that doesn’t fit the narrative.

  64. Like why DOESN’T Brad know how to screen her? He grew up with those thousand year old books that told him all this shit. Where is the disconnect between that and what actually happens in execution? “Oh he’s just a beta chode because he chose acting as a profession” isn’t a good enough answer, that’s just slippery slope shit into “Gene Simmons wasn’t alpha because musicians just want attention” etc etc It’s just muddying the waters instead of actually discussing why a guy like Brad Pitt ISN’T going for the <25yo 8+/10s and how he can keep them long-term and how to train guys to do the same and stack the odds in their favor while addressing the changes in society and WHY that thousand year old book Brad read didn't stick once he was exposed to social conditioning.

  65. Rollo
    Brad was fucked from the moment they hooked up. She is a textbook BPD.

    Bear in mind that is from wikipedia. So it’s most likely been sanded on a bit, to present her in the best light possible. This is her best side…

    Her manjaw would also be a warning sign, to a man who knew what that meant in the context of an LTR / marriage.

    This is playing out as a classic example of a man entering what he believes to be marriage 1.0 by the old set of books, only to find out that it’s actually 2.0 by the second set of books.

    Oh, and he’s rich. So by definition he and Jolie are beyond the mere UMC, they are stratospheric UC. Yet something bad has happened. My, my, my.

    Very relevant.

  66. Klem

    “But even Brad Pitt could not make a monoLTR work in 2016.”

    This is the big lie… why I’ve even posted on this because this is Yareally’s FI empowering narrative. A false one.

    Please tell me what “society” conditioned Brad Pitt to cheat on and leave America’s Most Babyless Sweetheart with a BPD alpha widow single mom?

    Point to some HuffPo articles or Cosmo or something that want married men to cheat on their 30YO wives and go live with single women. Any?

    Or can we just take Brad’s word on the topic:

    “‘A guy who felt he grew up in something of a vacuum and wanted to see things, wanted to be inspired. I followed that other thing. I spent years f***ing off.

    But then I got burnt out and felt that I was wasting my opportunity. It was a conscious change.

    ‘This was about a decade ago. It was an epiphany.’

    It’s not the first time Brad has described life before Angelina as a drug-fueled haze.

    In 2011, he told Parade magazine he spent the 1990s ‘sitting on a couch, holding a joint, hiding out’.

    He said he felt ‘pathetic’ and that he ‘wasn’t living an interesting life.’
    He added: ‘I think that my marriage had something to do with it. Trying to pretend the marriage was something that it wasn’t.’

    The magazine also quotes Jean Black, Brad’s make up artist since 1990, who says Angelina was able to ‘unleash’ the star’s full potential.
    Black told the magazine: ‘I think Brad was ready to soar when he met Angie.

    This is not to say anything negative about Jennifer. I was part of that and I know that he and Jen are very good friends and he cared deeply for her.
    ‘But in Angie he saw a very adventurous person who was grabbing onto life and taking it to it’s nth degree. It was intriguing as I felt Brad had that in him and wanted to unleash it.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2328477/Brad-Pitt-reveals-wasting-life-away-married-Jennifer-Aniston.html#ixzz4L0tmQGZw

    An aimless dude, seeking completion in women, requiring the spark of Angelina to drive him forward… How’s that MPO working out for you Brad?

    LOL

  67. “Sentient”
    Like why a “super Alpha” like Brad Pitt would choose to be monogamous with a series of 30 YO women…

    Irony. Pure irony.

    He did what he was told to do. Just like SJF. Just like you.

    And if he’d been banging strippers while out of town, when Jolie found out about it and filed papers, the family court system wouldn’t like him very much when it came time to figure out child support and custody.

    Just pointing out the obvious.

  68. Angelina Jolie is the Liz Taylor of this generation.

    Think so? Wow, standards have clearly slipped.
    Jolie is about to become another Hollywood “mom” who is basically “married” to her children. As with many other divorcees her age, the men she wants will no longer want her, the men who will want her won’t be men she wants.

    It’ll be “my kidz!” all the way down.

    In which case she should practice saying, “Ready for my close up, Mr. DeMille!”

  69. Yareally

    “Like why DOESN’T Brad know how to screen her?”

    LOL.. He does, no thanks to you BTW. But the “we love sluts” narrative and his own weakness blinded him… Guarantee you that people close to him said don’t get serious with that girl.

    Question 1 – How many linear feet of cock has entered into your vagina? For the purposes of this interrogatory only the length of penis upon initial entry will be measured, not subsequent thrusts, or reentries during the same sexual encounter.

    Do you have grandparents? Are they still married? You might start your screening questions there and then proceed backwards… Or you know, pick up some of these old books around.

  70. “You haven’t fallen from 50 stories, it might not kill you, you don’t know for sure.”

    That is correct. The current record for surviving a fall is 33,333 ft, although it was inside the tail section of a plane. The previous record, I recall it being something like 22,000 ft. (not sure where my old edition Guinness Book is), was done after bailing out of the plane with a defective ‘chute.

    “Have you been eaten by a lion yet?”

    Not all the way. It still hurt.

    I’ve probably also lost my pound of flesh to critters that didn’t outweigh me. It still hurt.

    Hurt is a great teacher.

    “Or you can make educated guesses . . .”

    I do that all the time. I find out if my guess was correct by the results, which is where my education in guessing comes from.

  71. “It is likely tied to a traumatic daddy issue, which is why it would be so prevalent in females.

    A daddy being divorced (or even simply being away at a critical moment) from an abusive mother is an obvious possible source of the trauma.”

    That lines up with my experience with a BPD. Daddy abandonment.

  72. Anonymous Reader.

    So you know what I was told to do? Do go on?

    But i see you agree that Brad is not an Alpha based on your response…

  73. “I can’t believe some of the things I have to explain here and how far people can miss the point some days lol”

    Tell me about it.

  74. @Anonymous Reader
    “This is playing out as a classic example of a man entering what he believes to be marriage 1.0 by the old set of books, only to find out that it’s actually 2.0 by the second set of books.

    Oh, and he’s rich. So by definition he and Jolie are beyond the mere UMC, they are stratospheric UC. Yet something bad has happened. My, my, my.

    Very relevant.”

    This. We have here a bible-raised UMC religious guy (since all UMC religious flyover state guys are badass alphas he can’t possibly be beta around women, social conditioning doesn’t affect people), with a girl who has NO SMV ANYMORE, which according to the OMGs should work out, but nope.

    So let’s move the goalposts around, he’s always been a beta chode, she’s an obvious damage case, let’s skirt around social conditioning or what effects that had on things etc etc

    All this is doing is showing that what we’ve been saying is right: the odds of pulling off a successful legal monogamous marriage in 2016 is so astronomically small that it’s not worth the risk (for no benefit anyone can actually name). If the goalposts have to be juggled around that much to explain this kind of thing, then Joe the Plumber should be staying faaaaar the fuck away from legal marriage or promising monogamy.

    @Sentient
    “Please tell me what “society” conditioned Brad Pitt to cheat on and leave America’s Most Babyless Sweetheart with a BPD alpha widow single mom?”

    lol do you think Anniston was a super high self-esteem catch?

    “Point to some HuffPo articles or Cosmo or something that want married men to cheat on their 30YO wives and go live with single women. Any?”

    Brad says he didn’t actually cheat and is proud of how he handled it. aka he probably ended the Anniston stuff before fucking Jolie. Because serial monogamy was conditioned into him.

    “Or can we just take Brad’s word on the topic:”

    Yes, let’s:

    “He added: ‘I think that my marriage had something to do with it. Trying to pretend the marriage was something that it wasn’t.’”

    “An aimless dude, seeking completion in women, requiring the spark of Angelina to drive him forward… How’s that MPO working out for you Brad?”

    But he should’ve known to stay with the boring girl, I mean, this was all written THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO GUYS in the books he grew up reading and all UMC/Religious guys are alpha and have flawless marriages.

    “But the “we love sluts” narrative and his own weakness blinded him…”

    lol oh ya, Brad is just a playboy who was out chasing down sluts was he? From all those massive scandals he’s had with all the busloads of fangirls he was banging Dicaprio style? lol the dude has been all about the monogamy his whole life, thanks to his social conditioning. But how come that religious upbringing of his that taught him everything in those thousand year books didn’t stick?

    @kfg
    “That is correct. The current record for surviving a fall is 33,333 ft, although it was inside the tail section of a plane. The previous record, I recall it being something like 22,000 ft. (not sure where my old edition Guinness Book is), was done after bailing out of the plane with a defective ‘chute.”

    Was that YOU falling out with the chute? No? Well then you can’t know, by your logic.

  75. On Hand and LTR’s. So twice Angie gets her groom’s blood on her… but NOT for Brad.

    That says it all right there…

  76. So, how many pages will the Brad Pitt arguments go?

    Lmao.

    The FACT is, we can see from Brad’s questionable actions that his ” alphaness ” is highly, highly questionable.

    Then we can see from his WORDS in that interview, that his BLUE PILL ideology was indeed in full effect.

    And, none of us, NOT ONE, actually know shit about how he was raised and if he was subjected to social conditioning that led him down any particular path. Was he socially conditioned to sit on a couch and do drugs? Who the fuck knows.

    I chuckle at commenters with their Brad worship. *chuckle*

    He’s just a dude.

    Pro Tip- If you never look for women or men to idolize, you will never be disappointed. No one is immune to life. Money and fame will not save anyone. People are gonna People.

    Women fall for celebrity. Leave this to them.

  77. Once guys have something like Vasalgel they’re all gonna go condomless (’cause girls rarely want to use condoms with high-value guys anyway despite what the media would have you believe) and STD rates will skyrocket, esp since the 80/20 will increase to 90/10 and beyond so girls will all be fucking the same dudes while the rest are checked out into VR worlds like the Grasseaters.

    Care to explain? It doesn’t seem plausible. Realistically speaking, even if Vasalgel becomes legally accessible at a reasonable price, only a small minority of men will bother to use it – mostly well-off, high-status, red-pilled men. I highly doubt they’ll all go condomless with random sluts who they know have a reasonably high chance of being infected.

  78. @Hollenhund
    “I highly doubt they’ll all go condomless with random sluts who they know have a reasonably high chance of being infected.”

    A shitload of them go condomless NOW even when they can be infected AND get them pregnant lol

  79. @Blaximus
    “I chuckle at commenters with their Brad worship. *chuckle*”

    It’s not worship. He’s objectively successful in a shitload of categories, the only real flaw he had was he was misled that the woman he was marrying would magically change because “marriage” (the thing you said, about how it’s “different” somehow and magically changes things, aka his social conditioning around it) and believed commitment/monogamy would help with that, which is FI-based conditioning.

    So he’s a relevant example of what we’ve been trying to explain for weeks now.

  80. My own poisonal view is I’ll take an interest in Mr. and Mrs. Fight Club when they start taking an interest in me, esp. gifting me some of their green green grass of Bitcoin…

    But ya ya, I was taken by the statement in the TMZZZ story that she was upset over his “different parenting style” to hers as a reason to go all Bolt-A-Drome.

    Meaning: he was trying to be the DAD.
    And a DAD is not a MOM. Which these days is strike four. Chinese parent expert say: NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

    Because (and I dare someone to ask Mrs. Fight Club this): in today’s Chode-erama, the only good Dad is a Mom. (Go on, say it, someone from the MSM: ask her to preach it: the only good Dad is a Mom. You know you want to.)

    Now to piss in the soup for real: the final solution to the Ya Really Question. (No it’s not why does the porridge bird lay its egg in the air).

    IT’S

    Why are we greybeard goats supposed to solve the problem of Why Men Shouldn’t Marry And So Here’s What They Should Do Instead to Sprout Sprogs?

    Of course there’s no good answer. I know that. Mr. Ya Ya, sitting in his La La, knows that, which is why he keeps baiting youze doodz from the Lapdance Room. It’s the most Ray Bolger-ist of straw men.

    Because you’re asking us all to preach the evangel of WHAT SHOULD BE.

    And we know what that is don’t we? Don’t we? Anyone? Anyone? Don’t make me come down there.

    Or rather: Don’t make me cum down there. Makes quite the mess.

  81. “Was that YOU falling out with the chute? No? Well then you can’t know, by your logic.”

    Not logic. Fact.

    You do realize that you are now making Sentient’s argument for marriage, right?

    “Oh, and he’s rich. So by definition he and Jolie are beyond the mere UMC, they are stratospheric UC.”

    Actors are outliers in the conventional class system, however, his 144 mil net worth, most of which he had to work for, is within the bounds of the UMC. Not even close to stratospheric. Most of the people in the stratospheric don’t get their names in the papers. That’s what they have people for.

  82. Blaximus
    I chuckle at commenters with their Brad worship. *chuckle*

    You reading your own private internet again? I can’t see it. Show me?
    Looks like “failure analysis” to me, along with “is Beta” “is not!”.

    C’mon, if you went over to some other man’s garage and he had a small block V-8 pulled out that had thrown a rod, wouldn’t you ask “How did THAT happen? Over-revved? Bad bearing? What?”. Damage assessment / failure analysis. Not “engine worship”.

    Pro Tip- If you never look for women or men to idolize, you will never be disappointed.

    Cosign.

    The religous people are even told explicitly “don’t do this, ever”.
    But…stuff (coughBennyHinncough) (coughMarkDriscollcough) happens anyway.

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