Are You Experienced?

ontheroad

About three weeks ago I was made aware of an article on the New Republic blog called Bros Before Homes and a few of my followers on Twitter asked me for my take on it then. I did feel it merited more than 140 characters so I figured I’d build a post on it. Honestly, I had more than a couple irons in the fire for blog posts ahead of this, but in hindsight now I’m glad I waited a bit before digging too far in.

I am going to riff on it here, but before I do I’d like to point out that my posting Sugar Babies, before this post was a strategic decision on my part. You’ll understand why a bit later, but keep in mind the general premise of that post – women’s commodification of intimacy dynamic – and the priority of self-importance women place on themselves with regards to what men must pay for and why women believe they’re worth men’s having to pay for it.

I’m asking readers to keep this in mind because Bros Before Homes will contrast starkly next to Sugar Babies.

From the tone of the article you probably won’t need to look up Phoebe Maltz Bovy‘s portfolio to understand her clichéd feminist bias. It’s all of the self-importance and the prerequisite solipsism you’d expect from ‘journalists’ of her stripe, but try to read past the snark she thinks is interesting. Her sarcasm only highlights women’s duplicity with regards to men freeing themselves from the Feminine Imperative and women commodifying their intimate interests in ‘acceptable’ men.

The gist of Bovy’s fabricated angst is how offensively sexist it is for men to prioritize life experience, exploration, self-betterment, hobbies and the virtue signaling she sees inherent in men when they actually go their own way. Men cutting themselves free from the expectations of the Feminine Imperative and a feminine-primary social order always imply the threat of them coming to realize their own value.

It’s also that the very idea of experiences mattering more than things is a way of valorizing the stereotypically masculine. “While men are conditioned to dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas and long nights of hilarity—women are now encouraged to find deep fulfilment in staying home to origami our pants,” she wrote.

Whether women are being encouraged to rid our homes of useless belongings, or urged to shop for new ones, the result is the same: Society continues to associate women with the home and the material, men with the outside and experiences. While the enjoyment of domestic life, of stuff, isn’t inherently negative, it is dismissed precisely because of its associations with the feminine. An orientation towards stuff over experiences, moreover, gets cast either as recklessly materialist or, as Tony perceives it, an impediment to enjoying life. The only constant is that what women prefer, or are imagined to prefer, is thought inferior.

[…]We’re meant to admire the experience-lovers for their indifference to stuff, which implies they’ve got their priorities straight: to live life to the fullest. It’s no coincidence, though, that these experience-lovers are so often male, as it’s a stereotypically male aspiration not to be “tied down”—that is, not to have domestic responsibilities. But these men do have roofs over their heads. The bourgeois life they’re rejecting is simply one they’ve outsourced. After all, Tony hasn’t rejected the material life. He’s just got a woman—his mother—tidying up after him.

Bovy’s presumptions here smack of her reaching for some way to denigrate men’s pragmatically eschewing materialism or being tethered to what would otherwise be considered “grown up” responsibilities and looking for something more personally meaningful for themselves. As with all femosphere journalists you get a bonus 10% on your women’s studies essays if you can find a way to sneak the word’s “sexism” or “misogyny” in a piece.

Bros Before Homes is really nothing novel in the manosphere. MGTOWs have been advocating this reward-for-independence from women for as long as there’s been a movement. What is novel is that this return to a man being his own mental point of origin and prioritizing life experiences as his first priority is a result of an awareness that’s now filtering into the mainstream. It’s very easy to criticize men for being juvenile about foregoing what popular culture would have us believe is preparing ourselves for adulthood, but when this new idealism affects the men women hope will be well-positioned Betas when they’ve reached the end of their Party Years, then there’s cause for concern.

As a side note here, I should also say that it’s interesting to see how fluidly the progress of feminism comes full circle in Bovy’s thought process. She uses the same ambiguous tropes of a regressive society expecting women to resign themselves to domesticity and tidying up after men as if 60+ years of Fempowerment “leveling the playing field” never occurred. This is the same, very tired, cover story that second wave feminism used in the sixties.

The underlying irritation here is that men’s new prioritizing of experiences above materialism is a thorn in the side of women who’ve been given carte blanche to their Hypergamous whims. Bovy cries sexism because she presumes men are unable to engage in all this experience seeking without a support team of mothers and house-bound women, but what really makes her sore is that men doing the seeking reminds women of their natural predilection for materialism and the base of opportunism their concept of love is founded upon.

Bovy’s first mistake is that she’s statistically inaccurate.

The Blue Pill conditioning of the past 60 years has done everything but teach men to “dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas”. That particular conditioning is reserved for women playing along with the Eat, Pray, Love narrative. If anything it’s just the opposite. From education to family to church, men are conditioned for servile Beta-hood and lambasted for not ‘Manning Up’ and being supportive of women’s empowerment at the cost of their own. Conversely, women and womankind have been lifted to unrealistic idealism in pursuing their own interests at the cost of childbearing and monogamous domesticity. Apparently, Bovy’s never read Lean In or even watched a Disney princess movie in the last 50 years.

Off the Reservation

What worries women is that all the Blue Pill conditioning men have endured for the past several decades might be undone if men were to actually make themselves their mental point of origin. What worries the representatives of the Feminine Imperative is that Betas might see the pragmatism in following the example of men who put themselves first. Men who eschew the trappings of building their lives around the materialism women seek when their looks fade and their need for men’s resource security is a better prospect than having to compete for men with their sisters. When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.

Open Hypergamy makes for aware Betas. Men aware of the game they are expected to play must either tamp that understanding down into denial or they simply refuse to play. That refusal can come in many examples, but the reasoning is the same. The deductive, pragmatic response is for men to go their own way and put themselves at the beginning of their thought processes and goals.

The success of women’s sexual strategy depends on ignorant Betas being prepared to meet (or wait for them) at the time at which their need for security is the greatest. This expectation of Betas in Waiting is part of a Hypergamous plan; it is the consolidation of an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks prioritization (also known as the Sandberg Plan). Bros Before Homes is an offense to this plan.

This then becomes a paradox for the Feminine Imperative. A man’s life experiences are generally a wellspring of attraction if not arousal for a woman. Experience is the source of a genuine Amused Mastery and a man’s self-serving experience is usually a prime indicator of an Alpha mindset. My Red Pill brother Goldmund is a perfect example of how personal, self-asserted, self-initiated experiences can be parlayed into a very effective Game.

Be that as it is, the proposition of any and every Beta going MGTOW in various ways, hitting the open road and regaling women with the stories of their exploits presents a problem to Hypergamy; Hypergamy wants certainty and a well-traveled Beta is still a Beta. Furthermore, living for the experiential implies less investment in Beta men developing skills, status, affluence and the personal equity that make them good prospects for Beta providership when they reach the critical age at which women need their cooperation in fulfilling their Hypergamy. At least, that’s the implied concern for women. Men with a sense to educate themselves from experience are usually all the better for it – even when that experience is a nightmare.

I should add here that prioritizing experience above other consideration needn’t be limited to Bovy’s silly impressions of Jack Kerouac’s On the Road.  What concerns the feminine is that men would devote the lion’s share of their personal efforts on anything unrelated to meeting women’s future or present security needs. It’s not just men wanting to scale Mount Vesuvius, it’s men having any self-import at the expense of women. When men’s ambitions are centered on satisfying themselves  and not about developing equity that’s useful to women, that’s when those men (and those who would encourage it) are shamed for not being an adult. They are shamed for not manning up or growing up to meet the needs of women and thus not living up to “adult responsibilities”.

Responsible Adults

It’s not an accident that society conflates men’s servitude with qualities of adulthood – it’s the design.

As such, women begin to get nervous that their future provisioning and security are their own responsibility. How those needs are met are a discussion for various other threads I’ve written, but the social expectations of men qualifying for ‘manhood’ by assisting women to fulfill their own Hypergamous imperatives are at the root of the “sexist” accusations on Bovy’s part. To her, it’s sexist not to plan one’s life according to women’s ‘correct’ sexual strategy.

Bovy actually shares a lot with contemporary Christianity. Ensaturated by feminine primacy, the modern church has made efforts to convince men that their servitude to women is both an article of faith and a prerequisite for responsible adulthood. In a reversal of traditional faith, men aren’t men until they’ve established themselves as being capable of providing for both themselves, but for women as well. Any man shirking this is shamed for “prolonging is adolescence”. All life priority and preparation is presumed to revolve around supporting a future wife irrespective of her own decisions and the results that come from them. The contemporary church is a Beta production institution as it is, but it’s interesting to see how both Bovy and modern Christianity align on the position of men’s proper roles.

This is an interesting parallel when you consider the lengths to which women have gone to emancipate themselves from (ostensibly) being dependent upon men’s influence and provisioning. Western culture has evolved around the strong independent woman stereotype, yet it’s sexist for men to emancipate themselves from the worst of women’s sexual strategy. Bovy’s perspective relies heavily on the Old Books rules set in the misguided belief that women are still beholden to roles of domesticity and repression in an era of triumphantly embraced Open Hypergamy.

Materialism

As I mentioned in the opening, it’s important that we contrast this concern for Betas leaving the plantation with the blatant soft prostitution of the Sugar Babies dynamic. In the light of women’s naked opportunism, and with that opportunism’s materialistic purpose, it’s easy to see how patently false Bovy’s premise is here.

In an era where we develop successful apps to aid women in setting their price on a basic date, it’s easy to recognize Bovy’s disingenuousness. MGTOW and its Red Pill aware derivatives are really just practical, logical responses of men protecting themselves from an Open Hypergamy women are all too ready to educate them about. The End of Men is also the eventual end of women’s expectations of long term provisioning. If Bros aren’t interested in homes the old social contract is put in jeopardy and Open Hypergamy only serves to expedite this shift. Women at the Epiphany Phase looking for the “equal partner” that Sheryl Sandberg assures her sisters will be waiting for them find that men have declined to play along.

The old joke is that if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house. The joke’s played out now because women are happy to fuck an Alpha in much less, and now they’re proud enough to tell Betas all about it.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@ Scray “anything is possible, so that’s why I ask dudes like Blax and SJF etc. to explain what’s going on in their minds. the best explanation so far has been (yours, I think?) about how marriage is like a business and you’re putting her to work for you and you don’t have to be monogamous.” For the record, my experience parallels Sentient story July 22nd, 2016 at 9:14 am PST. And also Rollo’s. My wife was simply too good to pass on. And I am brutally honest with myself. I had also positioned myself at that time in my… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

SJB
“If all of us are born with an essentially similar brain,

Except for those who have the e4 variant of the APOE gene, of course.

http://www.sciencealert.com/alzheimer-s-could-start-affecting-brain-development-from-as-young-as-3

False premise, no meaningful conclusion. Tabula rasa is a lie.
Any man who wishes to claim the mantle of “man of science” has a duty to actually keep up with science. Otherwise he’s just another poseur.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

scray i find it super hard to believe any man, if he’s HONEST with himself, would come out the other end in favor of any of that stuff using a Platinum Rule analysis. There’s another factor that doesn’t show up here much; religious men who take their religion seriously. They are required to limit sex to marriage. And since the churches are beta factories a lot of them marry women maybe 1 sex rank lower. Sometimes it looks like a carousel rider near the wall, other times it’s the religious girlies who more or less mate guarded each other. Those… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Forge
Had a bunch of great sex with a cool girl because I had a mindset where I could listen to her story about banging a nigerian man, SNL, while on a mission trip to Africa and think it was a fun story.

Heh. Churchgoing men can’t understand why I sometimes roll my eyes when one of them mentions some college girl going off to South America or Africa or Eastern Europe for a “two week, short term mission trip”…

Daddy goggles…I guess that extends to “uncle goggles”, too.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

SJB: “If all of us are born with an essentially similar brain . . .”
AR: “False premise, no meaningful conclusion.”

All snowflakes are different.
No snowflake is cubic pyrite.

Glengarry
Glengarry
7 years ago

Useful wrt divorce etc: http://www.realworlddivorce.com/
(Takeaway: child support can be at least as important as marriage.)

And, of course, try to make sure your baby is yours. You will often have to pay even if you find out differently later on.

The idea of pre-agreed custody sounds interesting, though I haven’t heard anything like that being used in the real world so far.

Glengarry
Glengarry
7 years ago

I think the family urge (start and raise one) is built into a lot of men, especially westerners. Add to that the problem that getting into a relationship is somewhat hellish to the beta and not something they want to repeat. Outcome: often troubling these days.

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago
Reply to  Glengarry
Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

And, of course, try to make sure your baby is yours.

If possible. My understanding is that France won’t allow DNA testing without permission of the mother. Some US states determine paterity 30 days after a birth, usually whoever the mother named as “father”. That’s a narrow window for testing.

Aaron Cox
Aaron Cox
7 years ago

All this shit is so depressing. To be told that there’s that “one” out there, and to believe that. Then you go through girl after girl bleeding yourself to make her happy and then she just bails as soon as the next best thing comes along? What’s the fucking point? Worse then, once you’ve become so beat down and broken by self-consumed women, you are a misogynist piece of shit for deciding to spend some time fixing yourself. For myself, I come from a very wealthy family and I myself made very very good money and women were never a… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Sure, kfg, that’s why so many women have been awarded the Nobel prize in physics over the last 50 years. Because all brains are essentially the same.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
7 years ago

@Aaron
Do you want this?

https://youtu.be/ynrdkkUxp3E

Or do you want this?

https://youtu.be/ynrdkkUxp3E

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
7 years ago

Or this?
https://youtu.be/ynrdkkUxp3E

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
7 years ago

Oops are you sick yet?

https://youtu.be/DBpeK9yaONQ

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@AR: The point was that essentially the same doesn’t mean equal, and thus doesn’t imply an equalist point of view. No dogs have won a Nobel in any category, but their brains are essentially the same as human brains to the extent that you can study human psychology on dogs. Up to the point where dog brains are different. There are two fallacies to be cautious of, the genetic (in this case literally) fallacy, where you equate two things as equal because of their similarities, and the snowflake fallacy, where you equate things as unique because of their differences. But… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Rollo & Sentient, and everyone else – Re: Questions “Rollo’s question: @ScribblerG, do you think the course of your first marriage and your relationship with your daughter would be different now if you’d been Red Pill aware then? It’s easy to say you never would’ve gotten married at all, but hypothetically, would your being Red Pill aware and applying it within that marriage have changed the outcome of your relationships?” Of course this question is not new to me, it’s something I’ve given a lot of thought to. First, let’s deal with the daughter. Had I not divorced, I would… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Some US states determine paterity 30 days after a birth, usually whoever the mother named as “father”. That’s a narrow window for testing.”

I don’t think most men realize that a woman may name any man as the father, even one she’s never met.

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Ya and other PUAs, I did an FR on previous page, but it posted behind a lot of other posts as I let it sit for a long time before saving it. Would love some feedback/coaching.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

I had a heavy dose of normal this evening. And I chalk it up as another “peak experience”, so normal that it borders on another Jamais Vu experience. This shit never happens unless you have mastery over your desires. I don’t know Buddhism, but I think I practiced it tonight. I think I walked around as a Buddhist. I don’t know. I went and practiced golf at the short and long game range at the club earlier today. Practiced another 20 minutes before the shot-gun start of nine hole couples league golf. Format was best ball of two couples but… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

kfg
I don’t think most men realize that a woman may name any man as the father, even one she’s never met.

Yes. Exactly. Should have mentioned that in the first place.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Scribb

Assuming it’s this comment:

https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-3/#comment-164100

Took me a tick to find – it’s two pages back – so I thought I’d paste it here.

I need to sleep now but I have a few thoughts to hit ya with tomorrow.

Tom
Tom
7 years ago

@Andy July 22nd, 2016 at 6:32 am > “Man, reading My Secret Garden is crushing any of the last vestiges of hope I had wrt the reality of monogamy.” You’re not “getting” what My Secret Garden Means, Andy. My Secret Garden does not negatively affect the possibility for monogamy. Instead of being insecure … why not accept women’s HUGE and FREAKY sexual appetites as a gift from God to mankind … ? What kind of relationship you’re in is irrelevant. Whether you’re monogamous, poly, spinning plates, PUA … Learn to CAPTURE and LEAD a woman’s sexual imagination, and your wife,… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Andy – Ya, that’s the comment. Thx. Looking for feedback on this FR. https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-3/#comment-164100

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
7 years ago

@Tom “Learn to CAPTURE and LEAD a woman’s sexual imagination, and your wife, partner, GF or recent PU will reward you with delights the huddled, miserable, blue pill masses will only see in the porn videos they wank to … ” This. To me, this is what RP boils down to. We are all sexual beings. Learn your sexual and dominance roles and she’ll follow because of the sex and dominance. Starting up again with another interesting pretty lady, 20 years my junior. I’m starting to see the light thanks to RP. And RP will always be present this time… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
7 years ago

@Sentient -thanks that’s really useful. I hadn’t thought of those angles to compliance test stewardesses and get more information on logistics. I couldn’t have done most of it this time – she only approached me right at the end of the flight just before landing, but I’ll be much better prepared next time. @walawala – no, she didn’t have a Kindle – I did, and she used it as an excuse to approach me. But yeah, I could have sexualized by making a 50 Shades reference and how it is easy to hide what you’re reading on the Kindle.. @Scribblerg… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@DisgruntledEarthling – Yep, this is how it is for me too. Once we accept our actual sexual natures, and women’s, everything is different. This is the foundation of the Red Pill. Not politics or sociology or culture, or even “game” itself. In fact, game is a consequence of putting your own sexuality first and being unashamed about it as a man. Instead of being a pussy beggar and pussy slave, be a pussy master. So what most women don’t want your dick, enough will. Feel entitled to it all and that is a great start. In some ways, I think… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Culum – Yeah, I was wondering that too but here’s my view. I need to DHV, and spike and get her qualifying and really attracted before I make my move. She’s already put off a couple of invites to hang out, and what I was working on was jacking up her attraction and interest. I also had an interesting convo with her about biz, and it wasn’t possible to do this live due to logistics so it was just a natural convo. I did end the convo, not her. But still, you are on to something, and I kind of… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
7 years ago

@scribblerg “Yep, this is how it is for me too. Once we accept our actual sexual natures, and women’s, everything is different. This is the foundation of the Red Pill. Not politics or sociology or culture, or even “game” itself. In fact, game is a consequence of putting your own sexuality first and being unashamed about it as a man. ” Totally agree on this. Our sexual nature always needs to be upfront in our relationships to women instead of being hidden away and repressed. My old man was alpha af although way too aggressive. I was a c&f natural… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

“Every day in the week, I’m in a different city If I stay too long, the people try to hold me down They talk about me like a dog, talk about the clothes I wear But they don’t realize they’re the ones who’s square That’s why you can’t hold me down I don’t wanna be down I got to move on Stone free To do what I please Stone free To ride the breeze Stone free I can’t stay I got to got to got to get away, right now A woman here, a woman there, try to keep me… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Culum Help me out… so you went out with the intent of a threesome, then when one of the girls leaves you abandon the other, who was throwing herself at you? Not computing… you clearly weren’t worried about social circle consequences in the former case, why abandon the latter? Anyway, just before Girl 1 kissed me I was talking about how “I want to be like [older guy] when I grow up – he’s so cool for a guy in his fifties”. What I was trying to do is highlight the age difference between him and me and devalue him… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

re: OP Women’s sense of entitlement is appalling. And remember that women’s “concern” for men’s life experience is completely solipsistic. Solipsism simply guarantees women see what’s in their best interest as also being in men’s best interest. So if men do something that isn’t in a woman’s best interest, it must be wrong and off the correct path, because hers is the only correct path. And in a nutshell, that’s where the self-righteousness behind women’s need to “reform” men comes from. They might as well be Jehovah’s Witnesses in how devout they are about their mission to control and change… Read more »

apriori111
apriori111
7 years ago

Rollo, I was just listening to an old podcast of yours which was over an hour long (Niko Choski was the dude I think). The take home message I think was to be “your own mental point of origin”. It seems to be the key message that you kept reiterating. I’d like to hear more about it if you could do a post elaborating on it! I’m new to this and at the risk of sounding stupid I’ll go anyway. Do you mean being more selfish? Doing things you want to do and not trying to accommodate someone else? If… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@apriori111 “If for example my gf wants to see a certain movie, and I want to see a different one, tell her we are seeing mine? Compromise and say we’ll see them both, or one after the other? Or simply say, “I’m going to see this” and that’s it?” Since you are new to this, you might want to check out the the articles on site called girlschase dot com. http://www.girlschase.com/content/what-if-she-says-no http://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-chase-framing That site is a site designed to generate revenue by selling you stuff, but the articles are quite good for proto- and basic game and explain game principles.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Scribblerg And Sentient’s Question: “Very interesting questions… I would pose one more, answer or not if you wish of course… If you had to choose one which would it be – a close and loving relationship with your daughter and the promise of lot’s of time together with her family and your grandchildren or another 28 YO HB whatever?” False choice. One has nothing to do with the other. Many divorced men have relationships with their daughters and chase pussy. Ya just don’t cross the two. C’mon… don’t leave out the next sentence… “[and of course these are not mutually… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

Regarding a question above, my wife says she is a feminist, and I have always picked the movies, concerts, sporting events, vacations etc for us. If there is a movie I know she will hate, I see it by myself, and sometimes her friends and her go to a movie. She lets me know social events we are somewhat obligated to go to (such as weddings). I never thought of this arrangement as being alpha, it’s just how we roll. I think my personal experience might not be too useful here.

Scribblerg
Scribblerg
7 years ago

@Sentient – you propose a false choice. The defect is in your question. I gave Rollo a detailed honest answer which actually gets at what you were ha handedly trying ask. Perhaps Ya is right p, maybe you are just a dick.

But let’s play your stupid game for a sec. Uhh, of course I would rather be close with my daughter, you fucking jackass.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Scribbs… Read that much into my question…

Ha

Issues much?

So much for dialogue these days…

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Scribblerg…

Anyhow i love your 10/10 on intensity… Heart on sleeve and all.

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago

Rollo
http://www.governmentsecrets.com/facebooks-sheryl-sandberg-direct-contact-secdef-prior-decision-women-combat/
Off topic but placed in your view on how things are going…

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
7 years ago

@Rollo I think it would be wise at this time to remind the readership about how Idealism is a way to buffer(fight) Hypergamy. Much of these people getting their jollies and being adept at getting their jollies are seeming to be grateful to adapt to Hypergamy and not realizing perhaps that it’s the fact that we live up to certain ideals which attracts women in the first place. Hypergamy and it’s nasty consequences come from a woman needing to choose “right” doesn’t it? Sure dread is a nice and asshole way to get women to stick around, but why not… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
7 years ago

Impeccable insight as always. Rollo mentioned something about PUAs recalibrating on the fly. When they need to switch it up a gear. It left me wondering if society itself does this. I’ve notice far more couples over the last 6 months than I have in the previous 6 years. These couples aren’t afraid of public displays of affection. Millenials use to have an over sensitivity to offending anyone. Even indirectly. Another thing I’ve noticed is what I call women promoting their man. By this I mean eyeing him seductively in normal conversation or intimating how good he is in general.… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@rollo

Esther Perel in 2007

My belief, reinforced by twenty years of practice, is that in the course of establishing security, many couples confuse love with merging. This mix-up is a bad omen for sex. To sustain an élan toward the other, there must be a synapse to cross. Eroticism requires separateness. In other words, eroticism thrives in the space between the self and the other

Nature Boy
7 years ago

Leif Erikson hasn’t given up on marriage

https://twitter.com/Tremorden/status/747459291477585922

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@ollieoxenfree1

The 90/10 paradigm no longer exists in London. It’s more 70/30 and rising in our favour.

I think the socio-economic argument is important as a lot of what’s being discussed has something to do with this topic.

I agree, but you can expect an army of silly strawmen to show up to promote the upcoming alpha sexual monopoly.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Lol.

@Andy should read

Mating in Captivity Sex, Lies and Domestic Bliss

Esther Perel

especially chapter 10. You need the excitement of a third.

https://ef2490216286c222791a99f912bba7d38569f254.googledrive.com/host/0B6CJCm8vUSj0NHZDZUg5bFgxVW8/Mating%20in%20Captivity%20-%20Perel,%20Esther.pdf

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Wild things in captivity while they keep their own wild purity won’t breed, they mope, they die. All men are in captivity, active with captive activity, and the best won’t breed, though they don’t know why. The great cage of our domesticity kills sex in a man, the simplicity of desire is distorted and twisted awry. And so, with bitter perversity, gritting against the great adversity, the young ones copulate, hate it, and want to cry. Sex is a state of grace. In a cage it can’t take place. Break the cage then, start in and try. D. H. Lawrence… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Rollo: I say Betas want to lose themselves (or part of themselves) in women because it’s part of the Blue Pill goal-state idealism they’re conditioned to anticipate in dealing with women. Men who need (or who are conditioned to feel they need) to invest heavily in their mates ‘lose’ themselves in that investment. This goes back to what SJF quoted from Dr. Farrell above – Betas want to lose the part of themselves that needs to seek out more sexual opportunities. This I feel is part of why Blue Pill conditioning is so effective for the majority of men (Betas),… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago
Reply to  SJF


Paradox humor and change

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@ Andy I got you in my head. (because of this Secret Garden stuff) Just like Scray questions wtf is going on with these guys like SJF and Blaximus with all their crazy talk, I am wondering what the actual problem is. I have changed in my judgmentalism in regards to monogamy. (not to say that I have entered a motive stage. I haven’t) I don’t judge you like I did before this past year. I hope to judge and accept you as a red pill tribal member. I think the community is best served by more information and knowledge… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“For men, they are paying a much higher price for sex than most of her previous partners did, and all they are getting that they didn’t get is marriage – and nowadays that isn’t even worth very much. I feel like women don’t really understand this, I didn’t until now.” What now you understand red pill? Read this: https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-4/#comment-164216 Sorry, wrong link. I meant this: https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-5/#comment-164276 Dear Em, what if you prove your case of fidelity to God and the Catholic Church and that facade prove to be fiction. Is your asceticism still valid? If you have read anything I’ve… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Rugby

Great links from you over the past year. Thanks man. Lol. Practical Female Psychology by Joseph W. South was a life changer for me. Led me to Manual of Seduction by Franco and The Black flag by Shark.

Thank you much.

How are you doing these days?

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@Emily Men want sex for a low cost. Women always think that we are giving the man our best when we choose him for marriage, but I guess in the eyes of most men that’s not the case. For men, they are paying a much higher price for sex than most of her previous partners did, and all they are getting that they didn’t get is marriage – and nowadays that isn’t even worth very much. Good to see that you’re thinking more deeply now than in the past. Commitment-oriented (beta) men want high-value bonobo sex, usually with commitment. What… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Emily

I feel like women don’t really understand this, I didn’t until now.

You may have to turn in your girl card since your solipsism is slipping. 😉

Actual empathy and understanding. I’m pleasantly surprised. 🙂

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
7 years ago

Just a quick quick question for the masters of female psychology. Mom had a hysterectomy and some other adjustments (pretty serious ones) , I accompanied her to the hospital and she has a vey pleasant nurse taking care of her. I temporarily move in to help her out (apparently she can’t lift anything over 1kg for 8 weeks as it could re-injure the operated tissue), moms being moms she tries to set me up with the nurse. This woman is 34, SMV 5, moved over from Macedonia 8 years ago, studied nursing and lived with her brother and his and… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Hey Emily Free will is a bitch. Shit, no one guides you. You are on your own and suddenly you decide how to conduct the course of your life. That sucks, because now you have to elevate yourself into the person you want to be. How are your philosophy studies going? Have you learned anything in order to advance your strategy? You should read some great literature over the summer like Anna Karenina by Tolstoy and the Brothers Karamozov by Doestoevsky. Including the passage in the latter book Chapter 5. Read this: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/brothersk/section7.rhtml Religion is great. Up until it is… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Here’s the question, I have zero interest towards her (I kind of feel sorry for her to be honest), is she just a good person, a nervous virgin or a lesbian.” That is more of a statement rather than a question. The answer is yes. But who cares?. Good persons taking care of your mother are a good thing. Go with that. It is a thing. Wondering what a HB5’s intentions are in caring for your mother are is not a praxeology. She is caring for your mother. End story. Your mother deserves good care. It is an expected norm… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@johny

“Here’s the question, I have zero interest towards her (I kind of feel sorry for her to be honest), is she just a good person, a nervous virgin or a lesbian”

most likely asexual or a trauma victim

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Rollo

Did I have an excoriating post (which I though I developed decently) for dear Em disappear in moderation? Or is that my imagination? You must have banned her name again.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

SJF on July 23, 2016 at 5:21 pm

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Redlight

SJF on July 23, 2016 at 5:21 pm

Yes.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Asd ‘ em e lee

“Good to see that you’re thinking more deeply now than in the past.”

http://www.betterthanfruit.com/wp-content/uploads/twos-comp-hourglass-black.jpg

every hour a few more grains of sand fall… the Day of the Wall can be circled today to the year, maybe the month, on a calendar…

tickety tock goes the biological clock… There is no stasis…

comment image

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Or as I heard a middle age mom say to her teenage daughter recently at the pool… “you might as well show it off… you will never be thinner.”

comment image

tickety tock…

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
7 years ago

@Sentient – no, I was worried about the social circle consequences – I just decided in advance that a threesome would be a big enough score to take the risk. Worried is perhaps the wrong word – more that this is a core social circle for me and I don’t want to practice and mess up and cause waves in this group – it’s my base social circle. Or one of them. So I’ll do milder stuff but actually sleeping with various girls and drama..I’d rather not. I’ll experiment elsewhere. I could have slept with the girl in question not… Read more »

walawala
walawala
7 years ago

@Culum Regarding social circle game. I went to one of my regular parties two weeks ago. A girl I’m banging came out all dressed up for me. But when I first entered another girl approached me and introduced herself and offered massive IOI’s: smile, body language, hanging around. How to number close one when I’m going to take the other one home and bang her? Being aloof…saying hi to the new one and disappearing, dancing and teasing then disappearing—all in a bid to spike attraction and make it look like a regular social interaction at a party to the regular… Read more »

cheupez
7 years ago

@whoever
Apparently you deliberately refused to understand the very clearly described basis for iv drip sex in most marriages explained very early in this blog. How long did one need to be here to finally get that; “A girl who finds your brother sexually boring or disgusting for a fling will find him sexually boring and disgusting in marriage?”

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Scribblerg On your FR, as Culum says, hard to tell a lot with the details missing. That said two things stand out. First it still seems you feel like you need to put in the work to earn it vs accepting you have it. Entitlement mindset. Like you want teh sex but still haven’t fully accepted the I am the prize mentality. On the beta bait situation: Example: Told her my weekend opened up due to a friend pushing plans till next weekend, which is actually true. She’s telling me how bored she is. I don’t bite. Great to recognize… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“What is the essence of what is bugging you about her.” @SJF Ignorance is bliss dude. “Instead of being insecure … why not accept women’s HUGE and FREAKY sexual appetites as a gift from God to mankind … ?” @Tom Um I’m not insecure dude, I’m pissed I didn’t know this earlier and I feel like I’ve been lied to for decades. I think it’s funny how everyone is getting such a kick out of calling me out for being a “beta” in the anger stage… I’d love for you guys to look me in the eye and say this… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

If you are in the anger phase then work on self improvement and knowledge gain, and don’t make relationship changes at this time.

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

@redlight

Yeah, I’ll wait, but I’m pretty sure that’ll be the plan.

walawala
walawala
7 years ago

@Andy “”Going try just have some sober non judgmental conversations and see if I can get to her to admit to wanting to fuck other guys. Then Ill bring it up. See if she bites. Then I’ll set the rules that yaReally has in his archive. She’ll probably fuck other guys. I just don’t care anymore.”” There is a point in the unplugging where I felt conflicted between the idea of just walking away and investing by using all my game resources and seeking out guys’ help here on how to manipulate a revenge fuck out of my crazy ex.… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

No one’s calling you a beta in anger phase. I certainly would call you out on being in a red pill awareness anger phase. I would second the case for self improvement and knowledge. Also, not asking for your wife’s permission to be who you are. Perhaps some Buddhist knowledge of letting go of your fear of loss and death and being able to comfortably live on your edge. From Deida in Intimate Communion: Masculine Edge First stage: Experience during a challenge with and outer opponent “and other”: other stockbrokers, other football players, other chess masters, other countries. The object… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Relevant to the previous post on Sugar Babies and relevant to Andy’s grief over My Secret Garden:

(posted by TheFamilyAlpha on married red pill reddit)

https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4trqva/us_vs_them_sexual_strategy/?ref=share&ref_source=link

The Man
The Man
7 years ago

Hey Andy – don’t know if this will be helpful or not ……maybe it is something else that you are conflicted about. But here it is anyways. Maybe it isn’t that she wants to fuck other guys per se, but just wants to fantasize about wild sex (which of course is going to include some fantasy about lotsa cock probably). She got a great big brain sitting on top of her shoulders – the brain going to do what the brain does – yes? Just like your brain does some wild sex shit – right? Except for her it’s a… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@scribblerg “I stayed in dhv/flirting/teasing until she started qualifying and showing real interest. Took weeks of intermittent contact. ” So you properly looped A1 until she was showing A2 and qualifying herself even without you qualifying her, so she’s chasing your A3. “I’m providing some business input that is relevant to her but I personalized it to the point where started reaching out to me, like all day and night long over the past few days, just chatting with me about her life” Here you’re giving her deeper rapport, but she’s still chasing your A3. “Key – she’s reaching for… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Andy lol that’s one hell of a book hey? It was written in like the 70s or some shit and yet here we all are under the Women Are Wonderful innocent virgin pure angels in thoughts words and actions effect 30-whatever years later. These things are just SITTING there for anyone to look at and start learning how women work. Some relevant content for you to help digest/process all of this mindfuckery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxWuREjuLAE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaRjwsOKEyQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqX3u12wTqw Not sure what to comment on your plan yet. Give it a couple weeks to really process all this new information you’re taking in right… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago
theasdgamer
7 years ago

@wala @Andy

What would you do with this information? Why is this helpful to you? It will only set your own hamster spinning.

Andy’s wife still occupies an apt. in Andy’s head, rent-free.

Andy needs to aim for ZFG about his wife.

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ Blax “If a woman thinks that you will judge her sexually as ‘ nasty ‘ or ‘ disgusting ‘ in some manner, lol, then she will auto-suppress herself in your presence. Don’t judge and you’ll be surprised at who actually comes out to play.” +1 to that. When this girl told me a fantasy she was having that I broke into her house, and was raping her at gunpoint, telling her that she had 5 minutes to come or I was going to put a bullet in her head… ding ding ding. When she realized I was not only… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

Also, reading through some old e-mails, it’s like, holy shit, AWALT. I completely forgot about this girl and looking back it’s like, oh, wait….this sounds familiar. Eerily familiar. Not just the sexual stuff, but the BB backlash to the AF…. Throwing a fit when they don’t get their way: —– “I can’t be your little call girl slut that gets you off when you get turned on by other women. Who you then neglect and ignore. It’s fucking bullshit. It’s the grey area to a really selfish extreme. I’ve allowed it to go on and I just can’t anymore. I… Read more »

The Man
The Man
7 years ago

asd – look – Andy got a wife and some kids. How exactly is it healthy to be ZFG (or outcome independent), about that? A healthy man is going to care about his wife and his kids. Maybe you are meaning that a man should try to frame it so as to be outcome independent wrt the consequence of outside influence on his own internal attitudes? Things externally happen to him (beyond his control) and it is best if the man processes that, in such a way as to be internally independent in attitude wrt what has externally happened to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“@Andy lol that’s one hell of a book hey? It was written in like the 70s or some shit and yet here we all are under the Women Are Wonderful innocent virgin pure angels in thoughts words and actions effect 30-whatever years later. These things are just SITTING there for anyone to look at and start learning how women work.“ Thanks for making my point for me. These things are just sitting there. Its is not merely how women work it is also how your own masculine mind works–On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are. Andy has had enough… Read more »

The Man
The Man
7 years ago

Softek – “Men don’t owe women commitment any more than women owe men sex. Women will ridicule men for being pissed off at not getting laid, but then turn around and get pissed off that the Alpha they’re banging doesn’t want to marry them. Funny how that double standard works. But that’s solipsism for you.”

Yeah – true enough, but it really isn’t female solipsism vis-a-vis men, normatively, because notice that it is just as prevalent the other way around, too. It’s just a gender difference in motivations and focus more than anything.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ SJF I’m still catching up on the comments. Been having a killer weekend, and it ain’t over yet ( melting in a mini heatwave..), but you know I have to check in and see what’s up with all the fellas. ” We live in a world that seems increasingly beyond our control. Our livelihoods are at the whim of globalized forces. The problems that we face—economic, environmental, and so on—cannot be solved by our individual actions. Our politicians are distant and unresponsive to our desires. A natural response when people feel overwhelmed is to retreat into various forms of… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Softek @Blaximus “ding ding ding. When she realized I was not only NOT going to judge her for the fantasy, but could get really into it and play along, fasten your seatbelts. ” It’s important to understand that the Blue Pill guys get a VERY DIFFERENT girl. They get the unicorn angel version of her that they are 100% convinced is a unicorn angel. Even Red Pill guys will get that side if she worries they’ll judge them (if she doesn’t care if they judge him then whatever, but if she views their opinion as holding weight or being the… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amber-heard-elon-musk-hanging-out-dating_us_5792532de4b00c9876cf43cb?section=

Oh Elon…how can you be so fucking smart and so fucking retarded at the same time?

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Would you still accept him? Would you still not judge him? Would you still welcome him into the tribe and accept his decisions? Or are you just LARPing, paying lip-service saying feel-good tribal bullshit you read in a Deida book and in reality you won’t judge him and you’ll accept him…as long as he does what you want him to?” Honestly @YaReally, Yes. I’ve gotten to that point by getting up the Red Pill and Game learning curve. And also by discussions with guys like you and listening to what you say. Judgmental is what I am, but I hope… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“Oh Elon…how can you be so fucking smart and so fucking retarded at the same time?”

What?

She’s a real catch.

http://cdn03.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2016/06/amber-heard-domestic-violence-photos.jpg

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago

Someone who built a home with his lady friend just brought this up
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/24/us/oakland-police-scandals/

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

More about “knowing your self” directed at Andy from an old post from Shark who had a great old blog that went down. Here is a link courtesy of the Wayback Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20141225210238/http://www.solvemygirlproblems.com/ His old blog had a lot of great articles. And he wrote great book about game: The Black Flag. He was into LTR Game. But mostly wrote about getting a girl. (2) Know who you are: It takes much longer than most people think to truly understand your strengths, your weaknesses, your identity, and most of all; to know who you WANT to be. I went through… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@The Man asd – look – Andy got a wife and some kids. How exactly is it healthy to be ZFG (or outcome independent), about that? A healthy man is going to care about his wife and his kids. Can’t let either wife or kids own a rent-free apt. in your head. You must be unplugged from the shitty blue pill programming. Don’t let your emotions control you or prevent you from making wise decisions and you must put your own ethics and mission first in your life. It ends up being ZFG about family. Things being as they are,… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Klem Sorry it took me days to respond…lol ” @Blax Hey man, thanks to my answer to me earlier, although to be honest I still have trouble to understand lol. It seems to me that you want girls to have some sort of meaning in your life, when you said that you wanted more than “something fun”. That is the part I don’t understand. If the girls you interact with give you only good emotions/sensations, what else can there be to it? Like, does monogamy gives you STRONGER good emotions? I legitimately don’t understand, you can explain it to… Read more »

The Man
The Man
7 years ago

asd – “Things being as they are, legal-wise, you must be ready to walk away from wife and kids.” In some eventualities, unfortunately, yes. I didn’t say anything to indicate otherwise. But I was trying to hi-light that a man is rightfully going to try to control his environment so as to have things go according to his ordering of priorities, but then when things change, ….. be in possession of the internal finesse necessary to re-order the priorities (an internal attitude of caring + outcome independence, helps a man process the re-ordering, when this becomes necessary).. Bottom line of… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

I’d argue that I currently know myself better and have better power and control over the direction of my life and circumstances than most men married to shitty deadbedroom fat wives tugging around screaming kids aka dream-killers, who haven’t had a spare hour to do any real self-reflection or develop self-awareness let alone direct their lives anywhere to do anything with that Lol, @YaReally that’s such a high hurdle…props on leaping over that one lolzlolozllolozl (I amuse myself…not trying to be a dick) I’ve lived four years in the Middle East, six weeks in Berlin, and six weeks in Caracas…all… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@Blax

None of my peer group did. I used to walk into a liquor store at 15 and buy whatever I wanted, and only every once in a blue moon would anyone do a double take and ask for ID.

I was carded til I was 40…still get carded, lolz…bouncers messing with me…maybe why girls think I’m 40ish, lolz

corypheus
corypheus
7 years ago

lol upwards of 90% of study abroad applicants are women.

The hypocrisy is blinding

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Andy ” Um I’m not insecure dude, I’m pissed I didn’t know this earlier and I feel like I’ve been lied to for decades. I think it’s funny how everyone is getting such a kick out of calling me out for being a “beta” in the anger stage… I’d love for you guys to look me in the eye and say this shit IRL. Lol. Not likely. Anyway, give me a few days. I’ll be fine.” That last sentence really says all that needs to be said. You got this. But don’t make rash decisions. But you already know… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
7 years ago

@Andy – dude, check out Blackdragon’s writing. I bought all his ebooks at one go and in one of them (can’t remember which) there’s some chapters *specifically* on how to take a monogamous marriage and convert it into a non-monogamous OLTR situation. It’s not on his blog I think. He warns that this is a very high-risk maneuver for exactly the reasons YaReally says but for guys who really want to do it, he sets out the basic blueprint (from what I recall, a lot of it is around just TELLING her that this relationship is now open and you… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Softek ” But when you don’t judge them for it and they know it’s OK to tell you all their weird/depraved fantasies and get off on it…..good times ahead. And rofl at the spitting on the dick thing. Like getting upset over that shit. That’s too funny. I’m just imagining how a guy like that would respond to some chick telling him some of the shit I’ve heard. Like would steam come out of his ears and his head explode or something? Guys need to get with the program. I was surprised the very first time I spanked a… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

YaReally being an asshole again oh no lol: @theasdgamer @SJF “Experience…are you sharper now than you were at 21? Do you think that experience might make you even sharper in ten years?” Ya, I’ll hopefully be sharp enough to not be too arrogant and ego-invested to accept that my experiences have less relevance to the next generation who are growing up in a significantly different culture than I did, and sharp enough to not be so solipsistic as to not realize that I’m not the only old guy sharing my experiences as though I’m the only one dropping some big… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
7 years ago

YaReally Sentient Scray HABD and PUA gang: LOLOL – fascinating FR – no lay but close. Good example of how much I’ve improved since last year. I met a 24 year old brunette HB6 goth-type chick from online yesterday for an afternoon date (I’ve entirely stopped online dating but this girl and I have been texting on and off for like 7 months now without meeting). ..Only it turns out she is THE SAME GIRL I met on the street in night street game and insta-dated for a drink about 9-10 months ago. WTF? What are the chances? This is… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Ya et al – Great feedback on the FR, thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya, logistics are making it hard to close – my weekend ended up getting busy with family, so I couldn’t push anyway. Texting still happening on and off, but you are right, I need to close for a face to face. Will do so at first chance, and again you are right to not make it Fri or Sat. I needed to hear to make it about “business”, I get it, she’s kidding herself a bit right now, lol, This shit is so fucking funny sometimes. I made a comment… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

Alright, better late than never. Just been able to skim but it looks like a few people have hit this, so apologies for any repetitions. @ScribblerG Not gonna say I’m massively experienced at this stuff but I’ve turned this sort of situation (sans the long distance thing) into a lay twice so I have some idea. Besides sometimes just another pair of eyes helps. “Over an hour on the phone, ton of text, it’s way too much to give the blow by blow here….” “I stayed in dhv/flirting/teasing until she started qualifying and showing real interest. Took weeks of intermittent… Read more »

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