Softek has had the almost predictable move for The Talk from his current (I believe BPD) “girlfriend”. Just to clarify a few things here before I dig into Softek’s questions I think it’s necessary to define what “The Talk” is. Generally, there comes a point with a particular plate you’re spinning when a woman believe it’s within her feminine entitlements to force the issue of exclusivity upon a man. I’ve written several foundational posts about non-exclusivity and the reasons men should opt for (Plate Theory) and I’ve also covered The Talk from practical considerations in Ultimatums, but feminized pop-culture has made what essentially amounts to a Frame shift into a life event.
The Talk is literally the defining of a relationship, and in a feminine-primary social order that defining power is presumed to always reside with a woman according to her “needs”. I should also add here that as men have become more feminized and uncomfortable in describing themselves as masculine, the feminine security need for a confirmed relationship status puts these men into the feminine role of initiating The Talk themselves. There are few grosser indications of a Beta / Blue Pill mental point of origin and a self-confirming lack of options than a man negotiating for exclusivity by formalizing it with a feminized relationship event.
What does Negotiated Desire mean for a relationship when a woman has resorted to it?
They’re powerless, yes, they feel helpless, yes.
But what does this mean for their perception of the man they’re trying to Negotiate for?
Ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness. Let me be clear before I get the standard, “you need to be a Man and set boundaries with her” retort – as with all things for men, it is better to demonstrate than to explicate.
However, in this instance, we have a woman issuing the ultimatum and the sense of powerlessness comes into contrast. The very act of having The Talk is a negotiation of desire. The medium is the message. We can separate a woman’s entitlement to an “official” relationship with it, but the fact that a formal talk would be necessary to legitimize it is the message she ignores or hopes you won’t recognize – it’s a negotiated obligation, not a genuine desire.
Making a euphemism out of this ultimatum by calling The Talk and dancing around the want for a long term security is a form of Buffer for women. And as with all Buffers, the intent is to lessen the impact of rejection by preemptively buffering the seriousness of it should it come to that.
There are a few reasons women will move for something like The Talk. First and foremost is the Hypergamic need for certainty. When a woman presses for exclusivity with a man she tips her hand in the Hypergamic scheme of things. In this instance the root message is twofold – she perceives you as high enough value to seek some kind of exclusive permanency and / or she acknowledges (or is beginning to) that her capacity to attract other prospective men is depreciating. Women with greater sexual market options and a commensurate self-impression rarely push for this relationship formality.
Another reason for The Talk is that women, on some level of consciousness, seek to alleviate the competition anxiety that comes with making an emotional investment in a man she perceives is 1-2 steps above her own sexual market value. A passive form of Dread almost certainly plays a role in the prompt to formalize an LTR, however, what’s prompting that Dread can range from an emotional investment based on a genuine desire to the pragmatic necessity to settle on a guy who meets her security needs in contrast to her ability to attract a better prospect.
As women enter the Epiphany Phase the need for a Talk becomes more urgent. As a woman’s attractiveness wanes Hypergamy cannot afford uncertainty or the risk of a loss of emotional investment. This is yet one more reason women tend to opt for dutiful Betas during the Epiphany Phase. Unattached higher SMV men entering their peak SMV phase are less inclined to look for or agree to, exclusivity when they have more available sexual options. Blue Pill men, unused to a sudden interest from women, are usually eager to formalize on exclusivity irrespective of a woman’s sexual history or her necessitous reasonings for exclusivity.
Have they lost respect for him? What is Negotiated Desire, on the woman’s part, indicative of in the relationship?
Again, this is somewhat subjective and depends on the man and woman’s conditions. As I mentioned above, the push for exclusivity on her part is prompted from necessity or Hypergamous anxiety. Genuine desire cannot be negotiated and it’s important to consider that this is equally true when it’s women doing the negotiating. Blue Pill conditioning has acculturated generations of women to expect that a man formalizing monogamy with her is not just her right, but that men will understand and accept that it is “the right thing to do” if he want’s to be accounted as a man.
We have an entire fem-centric world of women and men reinforcing this male-shame narrative in every branch of society – from church to popular media, you’re not a “man” if you so much as question your role in an exclusivity founded on a woman’s correct need of it.
This presents an interesting conflict for women. Women want men who just get it, but the necessity of petitioning a man for The Talk in the first place conflicts with the organicness of his understanding of women. Pushy, loud-mouthed, outspoken women raised on the Fempowerment narrative are often the most insecure in respect to this conflict. On one hand the narrative has bred her to expect a man to be her-equal-who’s-better-than-her-equal and ‘man up’ and formalize on his own. On the other hand, when he doesn’t, the anxiety that comes with the countdown to her Wall pushes her to force his compliance or to provide her own security for herself.
Now imagine this scenario with an Empowered Woman® dealing with the Beta in Waiting who represents her only viable LTR option. Yes, she may have lost respect for him, but her situation frustratingly compels her to force the issue of exclusivity with a guy who doesn’t get it.
Is it a sign of a failed relationship?
I don’t have any other experience, so my base assumption is that ALL WOMEN will push for commitment eventually, and want to pressure you into it, and ‘make things official.’
What does this mean for the health of the relationship?
Should it just end?
The necessity of a Talk in the first place puts this assessment into doubt. Women who don’t eventually push for commitment understand the nature of that relationship is temporary or there really is no potential, so there won’t be a Talk. The problem I see with making this formality something overtly public is that it has the opposite effect of qualifying what may be genuine desire without it. When The Talk enters into out popular consciousness it then becomes yet another ‘typical male’ fault.
Men become infantilized for not understanding women’s correctness in wanting a formalized declaration of monogamy. Once that infantilization becomes the accepted truism for women, what might’ve been a very good pairing of a man and a woman based on an organic genuine desire, turns into an obligation on his part to convince her that he’s not a child by living above that truism. The relationship becomes less about the genuine interest between the two and more about satisfying the “official” nature of it among men and women plugged into a Blue Pill social conditioning.
Should it just end at that point? If a man’s first act of a coerced monogamy is his capitulating to what amounts to a socially mandated ultimatum I think the woman he surrendered to will subconsciously lose the respect she had for him while they were “undocumented lovers.”
In a case like Rollo’s, or any other married guy here:
How did it happen? How do you get married without Negotiated Desire?
Is it IMPOSSIBLE, and it’s just a matter of minimizing the degree of Negotiation?
Same with having an official girlfriend. When you COMMIT even on the level of a ‘steady girlfriend,’ isn’t that Negotiating Desire by default?
I get this question a lot and for a lot of hard-line guys, even the best thing a married man (or LTR man) can say will always sound like he found a unicorn. You have to understand in my case the last woman I’d been in a formal LTR with before my wife was the BPD I described in the Two Guitars post. I had no intention of getting into an LTR at the time and for a long while, Mrs. Tomassi was one of four plates I was spinning at the time. All of this was above board and we dated non-exclusively for the first 3-4 months.
I began with a rock solid Frame at this time not because I was focused on establishing it, but because I had three other women in rotation and I was entirely indifferent to any idea of exclusivity with any of them. Of those four, Mrs. T was hottest and funnest in and out of bed so I gravitated to seeing her more regularly. I also appreciated her from the new perspective I had in contrast to the psychotic mess my BPD had been. She expected me to be conventionally masculine and I was already filling that role by default because I had a new outlook on women as a result of all that.
We never had a Talk when it came to exclusivity; she simply said that she didn’t like the thought of me banging other women and asked me if she could be my girlfriend. She literally asked to be part of my world during that brief conversation. I’ve had the Frame from the moment we started non-exclusively to where we are now 20 years later.
I’ll say it again, don’t use my example as some model for your own life, but there needs to be an organic flow to how you enter into any LTR.
It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized. As I stated in the beginning, frame will be fluid and conditions will influence the balance, but the overall theme of your relationship needs to be led and molded by you. Even very influential, professional, intellectualizing women still crave the right man to establish his frame in her life. They may fight it bitterly, but ultimately it’s what will make for the best healthy balance she can achieve. There’s a growing undercurrent of mid-life women questioning and regretting their past decisions to remain single into spinsterhood. And for all their late game rationalizations, the one thing they still simply refuse to accept is acknowledging that a man’s frame, the frame their “fierce independence” wouldn’t allow for, was exactly the salve their egos so desperately wants now later in life.
Gentlemen, you will establish frame in any monogamous relationship you have. You will enter her reality or she will enter yours.
IAS and Redlight I understand she’s looking for a provider. I just don’t understand why me when she knows I’m married and we’ve had nothing to do with each other for so many years. My mom and wife get along okay. Usual tension in that relationship but nothing excessive. My mom did think I could have done better than my wife and she wasn’t shy about telling me so when I got engaged. She was probably right purely on Sex Rank too. But a lot of water under the bridge since then. I haven’t really probed my mom on it… Read more »
The FI has no power but what we give it.Always be carefull around bumbling idiots,wear a hard hat and cover your ass cya. My job was postponed by a female plan inspector that was confused by a set of plans bought online,then changed by a professional engineer to meet local code,and fit the owners needs.I could understand this clearly,enough to give a bid and build it,she can’t understand it well enough to approve them..They won’t hire a male inspector,the women run the office now,and all are at their mercy.Plenty of work out there so no problem for me,but the owner… Read more »
@The Marquis: “I didn’t think my phone was a big deal.”
You were wrong. It is a big deal. Big. Huuuuuge.
It is a matter of personal boundaries. Yours are weak and porous, and she knows it even if you don’t, and she takes advantage of it. It is your business to shore them up and maintain them, without compromise, whether you actually care about them or not.
@wildman
your train of thought has completely derailed
@kfg
+1
@kfg “You were wrong. It is a big deal. Big. Huuuuuge. It is a matter of personal boundaries. Yours are weak and porous, and she knows it even if you don’t, and she takes advantage of it. It is your business to shore them up and maintain them, without compromise, whether you actually care about them or not.” This may be a first, but I’m going to disagree with you here. Although there isn’t a one size fits all description of the necessary components in a marriage (RP or otherwise), trust and transparency rank pretty high on any list. Giving… Read more »
@Chumpno
My wife has no access,to wallet ,phone,computer,bank account ,credit cards,she is provided a home,car,weekly subsistence,insurance basicaly all her needs are met if she wants more she is free to go get it.My business is not hers and hers is none of mine,this requires trust.
Rollo – “Common” human decency is as uncommon as ……” – really? Look – I’ve been around – even did the wild BPD thing (and true – no common human decency there), but otherwise, really? And yes, even outside of the BPD thing, things do tend to get a bit screwy when sexual attraction, and one’s perceived valuations around that, get involved. People be pretty prickly around that – it’s true – and it’s not at all hard for the “devaluation cycle” to take hold, in these types of relationships, wrt attempts for people to feel better about themselves at… Read more »
@Stuffin
“My wife has no access,to wallet ,phone,computer,bank account ,credit cards,she is provided a home,car,weekly subsistence,insurance basicaly all her needs are met if she wants more she is free to go get it.My business is not hers and hers is none of mine,this requires trust.
The Man ”
That is your relationship dynamic and it works for you and your wife… I would be interested in hearing how you’ve planned for a ‘wipe-out’ event.
My point was that other relationship dynamics in which transparency is explicitly agreed upon does not necessarily imply poor boundaries.
@Chump No More: “This may be a first, but I’m going to disagree with you here.”
I’ve been disagreed with before. I’ve even disagreed with myself.
But not this time.
If there were trust, she wouldn’t be going through his phone in the first place. No one goes through my phone or my pockets. Those are inside my personal boundaries. If you want something – ask. I trust to that. Don’t ask, you lose my trust.
And there is a word for too much transparency: invisible.
@ Chump no
What does a wipe out event have to do with her privacy or mine.?
“Fuck you bitch. Suck my dick for free or I’ll put two in your dome.”
here we go with logic:
“But common human decency as uncommon? Really? Rollo – pretty sure you are emphasizing wrong. [state Rollo is wrong]
There is more than one kind of thing at play in human interactions. [state the obvious]
To downplay the common human decency element as so uncommon as to be irrelevant, well that is simply not true. [state Rollo is wrong]”
even E who debates at a high school level is able to connect the dots in her arguments
Isn’t common human decency a meme that went out with the rise of Open Hypergamy?
Uncommon human decency,is just as common as uncommon sense.Wait what?
@ Andy – ” @Blaximus I don’t know who you hang out with, but guys like you are a rarity. I doubt that I actually know anyone in real life like you. Every guy I know defaults to the golden rule with their wives expecting reciprocal treatment. Obviously that doesn’t work. You are really good at gaming yourself, and you kind of create your own reality. It’s a bit hard to take your perspective seriously when you can just “keep your mind free of unnecessary clutter” like logic and facts. lol. Nothing against you. Nothing you say about game is… Read more »
redlight – simple question for you to ponder. Do you think Saira is a dumb cunt for what she did? if not why not? If so – why?
“Do you think Saira is a dumb cunt for what she did?”
depends on her agenda. Is she going for cash and prizes? Is she already hooking up on the side and wants to spin that if it comes out? Is she planning her own show, or book, or wants to develop her eat-pray-nosex brand? Does she want to market synthetic breast milk for tea? Could she have switched teams, or was just temporarily straight to get kids? Has she reached menopause and there is now a Pakistani desert? Does she like Idris Elba?
@Blaximus I cosign the first six paragraphs of your reply. I don’t believe in operating out of weakness, nor failing to have full awareness of what is actually going on either. Or that lofty goals are impossible with good internals and hard work.We all have that potential. Unsure men with significantly unhappy marriages are rare around me. I’m not an advocate for marriage or monogamy per second at all. I do endorse masculine strength and mastery over one’s environment in a True Power way. @ the man Simple question. Do you think Saira is normal–all women are like that, towards… Read more »
OK redlight – if you personally had to now deal with Saira in some way, let’s say a professional relationship for which a modicum of trust would be necessary, or some other type of relationship where trust would have an impact, would her recent public inconsiderate actions not color your anticipation of what to expect, and guide your behavior towards her accordingly?
@habd @culum @yareally @other PUA guys What’s the time that girls tend to go out? Just figured out last FR that I actually wasn’t going out late enough. Its around 10 that things start to get busy, and especially asian girls don’t come out until around 10:30 to 11. Just wondering if there were any solid times that were ideal to game, or if it varies a lot by area or by day. Got plans now for next few FR. #1 is just a quick scout of a mall in the city I like. Went to the mall in the… Read more »
@habd “going out less is a viable option (i can’t believe i just wrote that…lol) as long as you have a good reason (like avoiding accumulating bad reference experiences given the ‘bad’ enviro you are in…) and you are not doing it to avoid the work… and as long as you don’t ‘just watch tv’ to fill in the time…lol…” It was more about going out FEWER DAYS but for a LONGER TIME each day. So I would still be infield about the same time. “wrt girls having ‘bfs’… set your limits that you’re comfortable with and then just play… Read more »
OK redlight – if you personally had to now deal with Saira in some way, let’s say a professional relationship for which a modicum of trust would be necessary, or some other type of relationship where trust would have an impact, would her recent public inconsiderate actions not color your anticipation of what to expect, and guide your behavior towards her accordingly? mildly successful women in the entertainment business are especially ruthless, and I have zero trust for any of them. For example if focus testing showed that Saira’s likability numbers were low, it would not surprise me in the… Read more »
SJF: “Do you think Saira is normal–all women are like that, towards a douchy, girly man husband after extracting one child and a hard fought adopted second child, both of whom are young, and she works full time, presumably around other passionate and dynamic men– for what she did? If not why not? If so – why?” No SJF – I don’t think Saira is normal. Like I said I think she is a dumb cunt. I don’t think your average woman is a dumb cunt. I have already well explained why I think she is a dumb cunt and… Read more »
@ SJF Yo man, I’m just trying hard to grasp a certain mindset that befuddles the fuck out of me. Lol… I made a conscience decision to be happier and more content and exercise more control in life. It seems a reasonable thing to do. Double nickels and all, the clock is ticking before the dirt nap. And a bunch of the impediment to happiness and contentment is mental. And a big part of the mental issue traces back to levels of weakness. All of these can be overcome by understanding, resolution and work. Today, I walked outside and it… Read more »
redlight – you said: “mildly successful women in the entertainment business are especially ruthless, and I have zero trust for any of them.” By that you are implying you would have zero trust for Saira. So, by way of my example scenario, you would therefore refuse her the professional relationship for which a modicum of trust would be necessary, or some other type of relationship where trust would have an impact – correct? As such Saira would suffer consequences by way of her recent public inconsiderate actions – agreed so far? Then what do you think the source of Saira’s… Read more »
@wildman
Question for you to ponder. Is Kelly Ripa a dumb cunt? If not, why not? Would you trust her? Is Emily a dumb cunt? If not, why not? Would you trust her?
@ The Man
ar·gu·men·ta·tive
/ˌärɡyəˈmen(t)ədiv/
adjective
adjective: argumentative
1.given to expressing divergent or opposite views.
“an argumentative child”
synonyms: quarrelsome, disputatious, captious, contrary, cantankerous, contentious;
As such Saira would suffer consequences by way of her recent public inconsiderate actions – agreed so far?
Disagree. I would have the same relationship before and after her recent actions, much like I would have the same relationship with Kelly Ripa before and after her recent actions, and I would have the same relationship with Emily before and after she was kissed/sexual assaulted recently.
Blax – “There are very few real mysteries left on the planet”. Damn man – don’t get old before your time. There is mystery all around. Mostly it is the unknown and the unknowable surrounding us, and we don’t even have good conception of the interface between the unknown and the unknowable.
@Blaximus: “except that whole ” 1 sock in the dryer thing”..”
Hint: Dark matter.
Blax – look, I just can’t abide by dumb shit. People pretending shit is all figured out when it’s not, or just blatantly getting shit wrong. Allowing for that, without argument, serves nobody in the long term.
@ Blaximus
“Today, I walked outside and it was beautiful. Temp was right around 80 degrees, no clouds, birds singing. I am not illogical in appreciating the things that are right in front of my face, and not giving undue weight to any contrived or imaginary bullshit that would otherwise dampen my mood.”
LOL. Good for you man.
I did the same. This was the view through my cellphone camera 15 minutes ago while perched in a ladder stand:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Derm95/20160615_205114_zpskwhrztb0.jpg
“I don’t support MGTOW because I’m not a joiner for one, and I don’t cosign guys hating and whining”
Blax – I didn’t say anything about MGTOW. I said that men should boycott legal marriage. I didn’t say anything about boycotting women or having families. Just because it’s possible to make a marriage work doesn’t mean there is ANY reason to get that little piece of paper that completely limits your options. There’s zero upside.
“. . . without argument, serves nobody in the long term.”
You’re going to have to make one stronger than, “If people don’t have innate and equal value I wouldn’t know how to live.”
Especially given that that isn’t even an argument.
redlight – you said: “Question for you to ponder. Is Kelly Ripa a dumb cunt? If not, why not? Would you trust her? Is Emily a dumb cunt? If not, why not? Would you trust her?” I’m not sure what you are insinuating. Did Kelly Ripa fail to provide due respect for others, in such a public fashion, wrt revealing something private and personal about a relationship, in such a way as to curry favor status-wise, but with clear ulterior motivation to devalue the other for self-serving purposes? Did Emily? I guess it best I wait for your answer before… Read more »
kfg- dumb shit faux-quoting out of context. Would be better if you weighed in on the irl example that SJF disagreed with me on, (i.e – the Siara/Steve thing), cause discussing in the abstract seems to be beyond the ability of many here.
Do you know who Kelly Ripa is? Do you know what she did?
Did you know what Emily did?
I’ll wait for your answers before addressing your last post
“‘ cause discussing in the abstract seems to be beyond the ability of many here.”[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYXFSbLotSU&w=560&h=315%5D
@ Andy Okay. One way not to limit options is to not get married. Part of the problem I was trying to illustrate is in just what you state. A piece of paper does not limit a man’s ” options “. If a man is thinking along those lines, he is thinking incorrectly. It’s not the piece of paper. The speed limit posted on the highway I drive every day and night is 65. I drive 80-90 most days to and from work. For 2 decades. No tickets, but that’s besides the point. The point is that just posting a… Read more »
@SJF & Blaximus Went out on the bike for about an hour and a half today and checked up on how the latest crop of Canada Goose goslings are coming along.They’ve established a summer breeding ground along a bit of abandoned canal which has a paved trail alongside. A couple of weeks ago one of the goslings got killed by a dirt bike/quad/go kart where it shouldn’t have been in the first place, and the adult geese are even more aggressively arrogant now, which I didn’t think was possible, but the flock as a whole has been doing well enough… Read more »
Blax Cake and eating it too is an option. It’s not honorable, but that is only up to the individual to decide what’s ” honorable “. In today’s society, honor doesn’t count for much, so I get that. Keeping your word is negotiable. I want to circle back to my question for you, re the clit -tease escapade… What is your motivation here? Inquiring minds want to know. “I kinda blew my original plan, which was to approach a young chick and see if I could get her interested enough to maybe want to fuck…. without actually fucking her.” So… Read more »
redlight – I know who Kelly Ripa is. But what are you insinuating she did? (seriously – I don’t keep up with the pulp media stuff – not sure what you are referring to).
I am aware what Emily says she did and what others here think she did. Can’t see how the equates with the Saira/Steve dynamic.
“Part of the problem I was trying to illustrate is in just what you state. A piece of paper does not limit a man’s ” options “. If a man is thinking along those lines, he is thinking incorrectly. It’s not the piece of paper.” Blax, dude… Where do you draw the line? If the law says that when a woman files for divorce the husbands balls are surgically removed by a court appointed surgeon. Do you still enter that contract and just rule out failure as an option, and do it out of “maturity” or “honor”? Are you getting… Read more »
@SJF and Blax – Bullfucking shit. To all of it. And I wasn’t negative, I was merely being honest about how I see things. Monogamy and fidelity were the bargain men made when women were expected to be chaste and were shamed for not doing so. Now? Women can be faithful or unfaithful, chaste or sluts – and there are zero social consequences. In fact, their libidinousness is cheered on while men are shamed as “dogs” and “pigs” if they cheat, held to the same social standards they have been since the emergence of courtly love, chivalric codes and romantic… Read more »
IAS
“I just don’t get why your mom is enabling this so much. ”
Because her grandchildren’s genes are her son’s genes are her OWN genes… regardless of the momma… PRIME directive in action.
stuffinbox – Delmar O’Donnel – now there’s a guy who gets it.
@ Sentient ” I want to circle back to my question for you, re the clit -tease escapade… What is your motivation here? Inquiring minds want to know. “I kinda blew my original plan, which was to approach a young chick and see if I could get her interested enough to maybe want to fuck…. without actually fucking her.” So what is on your mind here?” I don’t see it as a clit tease, although that’s a cool phrase. As far as the chick that joined me at the table, I didn’t invite her per se, but she was interesting,… Read more »
“Why wouldn’t a sentient man want as much mogambo as he can lay his hands on? ”
I have no words…
Blax
“. I spent a few hours in conversation with a young chick, but it didn’t prove what I wanted to see.”
Not so sure of that… girl seemed into you. But surely given your vast experience you really KNOW you can attract random women…
So is it that Yareally has gotten under your skin that much? or is it really something more?
@wildman
http://pagesix.com/2016/05/01/the-inside-story-of-what-went-wrong-with-kelly-and-michael/
read that, use google to find out more. determine if she needed to say or do anything publicly. determine if she played victim. determine if she now has increased pay, show control, status. answer if she is a dumb cunt, and if not, why. determine if you would trust her.
For Emily explain briefly what she did, if she is a dumb cunt, and if you would trust her. Bonus question: should her boyfriend trust her and if so, why?
@ scrib
Whatever. I’m done with that conversation about denial and losing shit and 24 year olds…
If it makes you happy and floats your boat, more power man.
If the end all/be all in life is between the legs of a 24 year old ” dime “, lmfao, then go forth and CHASE!!!!!! May the wind be at your back.
As for me, I’m finished with the circular shitty conversation.
@ Sentient Lol. No man, I love Ya. He doesn’t get under my skin, but he makes me question shit even when I don’t want to. I was going on and on about old men/young chicks, but then I had to stop and ask myself ” when was the last time you actually had a young, strange chick ready to go??”. The chick I was chatting with was into me after a while, but it doesn’t prove a point when they come to you, get what I’m saying? She kinda chose me for whatever combination of reasons. And I am… Read more »
It’s really all hypothetical.If is the biggest word in the English language.
If Ya met a woman that was good in the sack cooked and cleaned and was madly in love with him,with no games would he try to lock that down?
If I could tap that 20yo babe without consequences ons would I do it.
If a guy getting a divorce could turn back the clock with what he knows now would he do it?
Every one does the best they can with what they have to work with.If they don’t they may live to regret it.
Oh, one last before deading the convo – ” @Blax – Frankly I think much of what you say is given by some kind of egoic compensation mechanism and denial, but I enjoy reading it. I just don’t buy much of it. You may not like that, but as they say, I’m just keeping it real. That doesn’t mean I don’t accept that you are content with the tradeoffs you make, but you are merely weighing risks and rewards. Otherwise, why do you game women, playing “catch and release” as you do with them? Why do you enjoy flirting with… Read more »
@ Andy ” Blax, dude… Where do you draw the line? If the law says that when a woman files for divorce the husbands balls are surgically removed by a court appointed surgeon. Do you still enter that contract and just rule out failure as an option, and do it out of “maturity” or “honor”? Are you getting my point here?” *sigh* Luv ya bro. I don’t ever say a man should enter into marriage OUT OF honor or maturity. Listen man, if a man has doubts about marriage, he SHOULD NOT enter into one. Simple. As I’ve said, I… Read more »
@ Andy
I forgot to add…
If a man feels that he is unfulfilled sexually by any stretch, he should never even consider marriage.
There seems to be much sexual frustration in the married world I guess. Idk…men should fuck until they feel better I guess, but I thought that went without saying.
Rack up double digit notch counts before making any rash decisions.
@Hank
Just figured out last FR that I actually wasn’t going out late enough. Its around 10 that things start to get busy, and especially asian girls don’t come out until around 10:30 to 11.
You’ve been scrolling through my shit, haven’t you? Lol. I answered your question in one of my FRs. 10-10:30 is early for salsa. People are just arriving in the trendy areas 10-10:30. In country, dancers arrive 7-8 and the bulk of the crowd gets there 9:30+. Bartenders and waitresses hit the 3 a.m. joints around 1 a.m.
redlight – OK I read the Ripa/Strahan article you linked – so what? Where is the implication that Kelly Ripa failed to provide due respect for others, in such a public fashion, wrt revealing something private and personal about a mutual relationship, in such a way as to curry favor status-wise, but with clear ulterior motivation to devalue the other for self-serving purposes? Same wrt Emily. I’m not implying either Ripa or Emily are dumb cunts – however I think you may be be implying that I am, by way of your insinuation that both Ripa and Emily undertook a… Read more »
@Blax
The thing is, it is not a NEED for me.
Flirting is a habit for you. For me, too. It’s unconscious for me–I do it without thinking about it–the nonverbal subcomms. The verbal shit is deliberate and I do some of that, too. The verbal shit isn’t a habit for me. Different strokes.
Some folks can’t understand how you roll, lol. Otoh, I don’t think that you understand how much unplugging young men have to do.
“All I am doing is trying to get some understanding out in the ether that marriage is not a dyed in the wool, sure fire disaster. It CAN be for many men if it is done wrong without a clear understanding, and that understanding has more to do with how a man relates to a woman moreso than the courts and ball surgery.” Most guys don’t understand how bad of a deal it is. At what point do you boycott marriage? Yeah you can make it work but I don’t see any reason to take the risk. The FI will… Read more »
@man how the fuck can you read the article and not see it? You talk about some people not dealing with the abstract, lol Ripa was told privately that her co-host was leaving in a few months, and then shortly afterwards the news was leaked/announced. She could have done nothing but follow the normal transition process. Instead she became publicly offended, and went on strike. In the deal for her to return, she got to get rid of her co-host months early, got a big pay raise, got more show control, had the show just in her name, and took… Read more »
Individuality nurtured without codependency,mutual live and let live,don’t sweat the small stuff,every head is a different world.Do two peoples vision overlap enough to grow together or differ enough to grow apart?
@man To make this easier for you, since it is non-abstract, here is the kindergarten version: Mike and Kelly were in the same class. Mike got the chance to go to another nicer school in the fall. When Kelly found out, instead of being happy for Mike, she stomped her feet and refused to go to school anymore. After the teachers promised her a lot more treats and that Mike would have to leave immediately, she agreed to go back to school, but only after sticking her tongue out at Mike. Was Kelly a bad girl? Would you trust her?… Read more »
@Scribbler I love you man. I don’t dislike anything you said and you give me a more comfortable ability to respond to the dynamics going on with me. I have to reflect on my past ability to discuss these things and I feel I was lacking in my having to explain it. I do think Blaximus is doing a fantastic job of explaining what goes on in his and my head. We really are at peace with our situations, we are not weak men, nor do we operate out of fear or weakness. At all. We are presented with choices… Read more »
Wrong link in the above comment to: Regular, social interaction with other attractive females. Women are social creatures, and will derive emotional satisfaction from being with a man capable of being with a variety of women.
https://therationalmale.com/2016/06/06/the-talk/comment-page-3/#comment-159675
“Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”
@Stuffinbox June 15th, 2016 at 7:21 pm It’s really all hypothetical. If is the biggest word in the English language. Every one does the best they can with what they have to work with.If they don’t they may live to regret it. What scares me and what Blaxmus tried to explain @3:38 PST today (that I was reading on my cell phone in 80 degree sunset weather, waiting to get a picture of a deer below me to complete the narrative started by KFG earlier–and impress KFG with the deer picture–I really snapped it with my cell phone today)…. …..is… Read more »
Someone say my name?
I don’t understand the interest in what happened tbh.
The discussion about marriage is very interesting!
Emily, you had a sexual act performed on you without your explicit consent. This is rape culture.
“Forget it- he’s on a roll…”
Redlight – alright, I gonna have to hold your hand then, and slowly walk you through this, one baby step at a time – fuck. From the article you linked Strahan hadn’t been playing nice either for quite some time. He was pissed Ripa was being paid a whole lot more. Apparently directed some of that butthurt her way. Probably a good strategy. Both Strahan and Ripa were probably actually playing execs Gelman/Iger, and each using their butthurt animosity to that end, to get more money for themselves, individually. Strahan goes to GMA (probably for more money but that is… Read more »
I never claimed it’s rape. Thank God, I’ve never had something like that happen to me.
The only way rape culture exists imo is the shaming of rape victims (female and, especially, male.) Otherwise the prevalence and acceptability of rape is declining in the west.
“The discussion about marriage is very interesting!” “Interesting” is a euphemism for I can’t sleep and my head is about to explode because at the age of 20, I’m having tremendous cognitive dissonance about the sex card/commitment card tango and my boyfriend is getting angry when other guys kiss me and make moves on me while I’m denying him and not treating him kindly because my pastors’ gentle words are more important than he is and my philosophy undergrad degree is cruising along nicely, even though I can’t put a philosophical thought together on a manosphere blog…. (Hint: noun, psychology:… Read more »
@emily
I didn’t say it was rape. I said it was sexual assault as they define it when saying 1 out of 4 college females will experience it. You are now part of that 25%, and they say that the 1 of 4 statistic proves rape culture
“Forget it- he’s on a roll…”
Yep.
LET’S DO IT!
@man
“I would think then perhaps you got no hope of understanding redpill”
I do have no hope of understanding redpill as you understand it. In fact, nobody but you is going to ever understand your version of redpill.
I do understand Rollo’s version of redpill, the one you reject. With that understanding, AWALT, and the recent actions of Saira, Kelly, and Emily do not surprise me at all.
@SJF: “. . . impress KFG with the deer picture . . .” For the record I appreciated it. This spring I had a few encounters with a fawn getting all spastic in the middle of the trail. I haven’t seen it in a while and I hope it’s OK. It was apparently born in a bit of wood with a river to one side and a four lane highway on the other. The trail runs between them. Every time I came by and startled it back into the wood it had the appearance of having a go at the… Read more »
“Never saw the mother.” Fawning is interesting an baffles most humans. The mother “parks” the fawn away from her on purpose. Often up close to houses/hunting cabins with cover out back because coyotes know not to go near human boxes with their AR-15s. Fawns have no scent at all until about two to three weeks until they can run. So that is why they park them. Mom’s a target, fawn is invisibly small and scentless. Similar to the Killdeer bird behavior of mom distraction. And the fawns lay quiet when approached. (A problem with guys like me flail mowing our… Read more »
@Blaximus “Cake and eating it too is an option. It’s not honorable” lol wut? By who’s standards, the FI? Whatever standards you were socially conditioned to have? “but that is only up to the individual to decide what’s ” honorable “.” The FI says getting married is “honorable”. Honor is just social conditioning (“it’s the right thing to do because it just IS okay??”) combined with shaming tactics. I mean, how is that different than what Wild Man is saying with his silly “common code of courtesy” nonsense. “In today’s society, honor doesn’t count for much, so I get that.… Read more »
The guy isn’t always the victim yknow. No need to feel sorry for my bf. He’s lucky.
SJF, this isn’t a philosophy blog, otherwise I would be happy to discuss philosophy.
“How does any of this equate with the dynamic I was talking about? – which would pretty much have to be about emasculating her husband” She didn’t emasculate her husband. He did it just fine on his own. “…just as it seems SJF would have been confused as fuck, probably wholly blaming himself, if he found himself in Steve’s shoes….” Damn right I’d blame myself. Never again. I’ve been in Steve’s shoes (to a minor degree) and I have to keep reminding myself to never fucking do that again. Next time I find myself doing that I remind myself, might… Read more »
“He’s lucky.”
Not hardly, though.
@ YaReally I read an article that said people thought open relationships were more detestable than cheating in monogamous relationships. i.e., declaring non-exclusivity from the start is more detestable to people than declaring exclusivity from the start and then going back on your word. Social conditioning in a nutshell. In the work I do, there’s a $700 tool. It gets rave reviews and a lot of professionals use it. Some people even go so far as to require their techs to learn how to use it. I made something that is far more effective, much faster, much easier to use,… Read more »
@YaReally at June 14 at 2:06pm @STRONGTEK here’s some complimentary counter-programming to those motivational videos…lol… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USvyl3YFkPE just.let.go… (and you know EXACTLY what i mean…lol…) good luck! ————— @Rollo at June 14 at 9:54p @YaReally @STRONGTEK how did you get the vid of @STRONGTEK’s girl?…lol… good luck! —————- @STRONGTEK @YaReally @ YaReally I don’t think I even have to get out, because she’s going to leave on her own. no, she won’t… this is your wishful thinking again… expecting her to take the lead and make a choice against her personal interests… which will accrue a major benefit to you… better… Read more »
redlight – “With that understanding, AWALT, and the recent actions of Saira, Kelly, and Emily do not surprise me at all.” OK – so you still equating what Kelly Ripa did with what Saira did? Because AWALT? Because Rollo said so? I just want to be clear cause that just be too funny then – like it doesn’t occur to you where SJF’s line or reasoning leads? Like how could I spell it out any more simply? SJF is basically saying that if you don’t do your shit just right wrt your woman, and your woman disses you bad, suck… Read more »
Often a feeling of DOOM comes with The Talk. This is your instincts telling you that the relationship is over. Once desire is negotiated instead of lived, passion dies, and the relationship calcifies. At that exact moment, the relationship is already DEAD, and those involved are just going through the motions.
@Softek – dude, sell your invention for $500 and make your fortune. It won’t solve your other problems but you can at least be miserable in a mansion. @hank holiday – good work on keeping up the momentum. In terms of going out/peak times it varies a lot depending on city and bar/club etc (for eg Vegas goes much later than most other places). You need to find out by going out to your particular bars and clubs. Typically though the night has a rhythm (Julien calls this the “Tempo of the Night” in his PIMP product). So for a… Read more »
YaReally & HABD: YaReally thanks dude. I will try the disqualification thing and walk away. Should be a fun experience even if the girl flips out. I remember a gold digger type from last year who started messing around saying she only had an hour to spend with me who I should have probably done that with. HABD: I get your point about DQ (currently working on developing some DQ DHV stories, or changing my current DHV stories to incorporate more DQ elements), but the whole “buying drinks” thing seems like a red herring to me. I get not giving… Read more »
@SJF Most of our tools are mental,freedom is a state of mind,artistic license is freedom in a way.A man can live for 7 days without food 3days without water and 3 seconds without hope. These days with the control over information on current events,the expansion of social media,the mysandry and androgeny,the matrix writ large.Penetrating the world is not encouraged,creativity is delayed and stifeled,responsibility is not given,these are the tools that they are given to work with. Not really being there as a young man today i can’t really feel it.Learning the truth and getting rid of the missinformation was tough… Read more »
@man this is one sentence you expect people to parse: SJF is basically saying that if you don’t do your shit just right wrt your woman, and your woman disses you bad, suck it up buddy it’s all your fault (cause apparently women are faultless and can do no wrong even though they basically be cunts), and every redpill guy is gonna despise you as a douchy girly-man, cause of this shit that happened to you, unless you fess up your unworthiness, confession-like, like take me to redpill church, then the holy fathers of this blogspot forum will apply salve… Read more »
@SJF The question arises are all the48 laws of power good? Or can the people in power see through some of this posturing?If you were raised on egalitarianism is it ok to be a sycophant ? can people really get what they want this political way? If our leaders do this back stabing oneupsmanship in public it must be ok right? Personaly I hold that honor is not a social convention but rather an internal sense of right that i can live with.Today well lived will be a good memory tomorrow with no regrets.I like the hypocratic oath first do… Read more »
@SJF
She didn’t emasculate her husband. He did it just fine on his own.
Correct. Saira’s disrespectful words were just an added gloss to the blood spurting from Hyde’s loins. No knife in her words. Hyde wielded the knife himself, lol.
What else was I gonna say? Oh, yeah. DON’T FEED THE TROLL.
Of course, all the girls watching those vids of Saira and Hyde are gonna have the same reactions as all of us Red Pill Men. If we watch Saira’s vid first, we might feel that she acted shamefully. But after we watch Hyde’s vid, we understand how Saira feels that Hyde is a weak, pathetic, unattractive, pedestalizing fool. Of course, all the women are gonna side with Saira against Hyde. Even Mrs. Gamer would find Hyde pathetic.
There is some irony in the fact that most of the misinformation comes from the media,and this little blog of truth is media also.This makes this blog effective in a way that it is there for the media oriented human being.But at some point,as has been pointed out by many commentors here,people have to make the shift from human being to human doing. This doesn’t seem like a big deal to a guy raised with am radio and black and white tv when it was more entertaining to explore the creek bottoms,sled ,ski,mountain climb,ride bmx etc,, But to a guy… Read more »
@ASDgamer Good points. “Oh, yeah. DON’T FEED THE TROLL.” I thought about that, but reconsidered that if the troll doesn’t get what Rollo talks about then others need to be clued in to the fact that: “But after we watch Hyde’s vid, we understand how Saira feels that Hyde is a weak, pathetic, unattractive, pedestalizing fool. “ I mean da man doesn’t get it because he’s on an agenda rant. But YaReally is right, that men have to realize the dynamics in those videos. I’m not sure if YaReally put the blame on Saira, but it is tremendously illustrating that… Read more »
@ All newbies and lurkers, honor is not socially conditioned/ FI driven.
Please resist any confusion over words that have had meaning and definition for millennia.
As practiced by the individual, men will exhibit varying degrees of honor.
In 2016, many men don’t put much stock in masculine concepts at all. The lack of honor and strength is the result of mass feminization, not the inverse.
It’s not confusing. Honor will vary by degree and intensity depending on the individual.
Do not let life baffle and confuse you.
Do not eschew and cast off the masculine.
@ All
I must admit. The push and drive for men to think like and mimic women in thought process and action is exasperating.
Men are not women.
It’s a more feminine quality to be flighty and confused and to harbor little control and mastery over whim and emotion.
Break those chains and reject those thought patterns.
The push and drive for men to think like and mimic women in thought process and action is exasperating. It’s exasperating because so many men for so many generations now have been taught and conditioned to believe that the more they identify with the feminine the more acceptable they will be for intimacy with women. https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/04/identity-crisis-2/ The greater whole of Beta Game is founded on the idea that the more alike a man is with the feminine the more attractive a mate choice he will be. It’s a like-attracts-like deductive mentality and it’s categorically false; debilitating even. That said, while… Read more »
@ Blaximus
“Honor will vary by degree and intensity depending on the individual” and the tribe that recognizes it.
I always include “among” men after the tactical virtue of honor when it is used as a noun.
It is not FI driven when it is designated as a tactical virtue among a tribe of men. Unless a tribe of men is feminized and cannot recognize masculine tactical virtues.
Here was a previous cut and paste of Donovan’s chapter on HONOR to give some perspective:
https://therationalmale.com/2016/02/15/the-warrior-princess/comment-page-5/#comment-141140
@ SJF
Agree . Rollo has a OP on Honor also. Naturally, I am not talking about the feminized version of ” man up ” honor, but the original, historic one.
I don’t think a lot of young men understand that there is a significant difference.