Softek has had the almost predictable move for The Talk from his current (I believe BPD) “girlfriend”. Just to clarify a few things here before I dig into Softek’s questions I think it’s necessary to define what “The Talk” is. Generally, there comes a point with a particular plate you’re spinning when a woman believe it’s within her feminine entitlements to force the issue of exclusivity upon a man. I’ve written several foundational posts about non-exclusivity and the reasons men should opt for (Plate Theory) and I’ve also covered The Talk from practical considerations in Ultimatums, but feminized pop-culture has made what essentially amounts to a Frame shift into a life event.
The Talk is literally the defining of a relationship, and in a feminine-primary social order that defining power is presumed to always reside with a woman according to her “needs”. I should also add here that as men have become more feminized and uncomfortable in describing themselves as masculine, the feminine security need for a confirmed relationship status puts these men into the feminine role of initiating The Talk themselves. There are few grosser indications of a Beta / Blue Pill mental point of origin and a self-confirming lack of options than a man negotiating for exclusivity by formalizing it with a feminized relationship event.
What does Negotiated Desire mean for a relationship when a woman has resorted to it?
They’re powerless, yes, they feel helpless, yes.
But what does this mean for their perception of the man they’re trying to Negotiate for?
Ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness. Let me be clear before I get the standard, “you need to be a Man and set boundaries with her” retort – as with all things for men, it is better to demonstrate than to explicate.
However, in this instance, we have a woman issuing the ultimatum and the sense of powerlessness comes into contrast. The very act of having The Talk is a negotiation of desire. The medium is the message. We can separate a woman’s entitlement to an “official” relationship with it, but the fact that a formal talk would be necessary to legitimize it is the message she ignores or hopes you won’t recognize – it’s a negotiated obligation, not a genuine desire.
Making a euphemism out of this ultimatum by calling The Talk and dancing around the want for a long term security is a form of Buffer for women. And as with all Buffers, the intent is to lessen the impact of rejection by preemptively buffering the seriousness of it should it come to that.
There are a few reasons women will move for something like The Talk. First and foremost is the Hypergamic need for certainty. When a woman presses for exclusivity with a man she tips her hand in the Hypergamic scheme of things. In this instance the root message is twofold – she perceives you as high enough value to seek some kind of exclusive permanency and / or she acknowledges (or is beginning to) that her capacity to attract other prospective men is depreciating. Women with greater sexual market options and a commensurate self-impression rarely push for this relationship formality.
Another reason for The Talk is that women, on some level of consciousness, seek to alleviate the competition anxiety that comes with making an emotional investment in a man she perceives is 1-2 steps above her own sexual market value. A passive form of Dread almost certainly plays a role in the prompt to formalize an LTR, however, what’s prompting that Dread can range from an emotional investment based on a genuine desire to the pragmatic necessity to settle on a guy who meets her security needs in contrast to her ability to attract a better prospect.
As women enter the Epiphany Phase the need for a Talk becomes more urgent. As a woman’s attractiveness wanes Hypergamy cannot afford uncertainty or the risk of a loss of emotional investment. This is yet one more reason women tend to opt for dutiful Betas during the Epiphany Phase. Unattached higher SMV men entering their peak SMV phase are less inclined to look for or agree to, exclusivity when they have more available sexual options. Blue Pill men, unused to a sudden interest from women, are usually eager to formalize on exclusivity irrespective of a woman’s sexual history or her necessitous reasonings for exclusivity.
Have they lost respect for him? What is Negotiated Desire, on the woman’s part, indicative of in the relationship?
Again, this is somewhat subjective and depends on the man and woman’s conditions. As I mentioned above, the push for exclusivity on her part is prompted from necessity or Hypergamous anxiety. Genuine desire cannot be negotiated and it’s important to consider that this is equally true when it’s women doing the negotiating. Blue Pill conditioning has acculturated generations of women to expect that a man formalizing monogamy with her is not just her right, but that men will understand and accept that it is “the right thing to do” if he want’s to be accounted as a man.
We have an entire fem-centric world of women and men reinforcing this male-shame narrative in every branch of society – from church to popular media, you’re not a “man” if you so much as question your role in an exclusivity founded on a woman’s correct need of it.
This presents an interesting conflict for women. Women want men who just get it, but the necessity of petitioning a man for The Talk in the first place conflicts with the organicness of his understanding of women. Pushy, loud-mouthed, outspoken women raised on the Fempowerment narrative are often the most insecure in respect to this conflict. On one hand the narrative has bred her to expect a man to be her-equal-who’s-better-than-her-equal and ‘man up’ and formalize on his own. On the other hand, when he doesn’t, the anxiety that comes with the countdown to her Wall pushes her to force his compliance or to provide her own security for herself.
Now imagine this scenario with an Empowered Woman® dealing with the Beta in Waiting who represents her only viable LTR option. Yes, she may have lost respect for him, but her situation frustratingly compels her to force the issue of exclusivity with a guy who doesn’t get it.
Is it a sign of a failed relationship?
I don’t have any other experience, so my base assumption is that ALL WOMEN will push for commitment eventually, and want to pressure you into it, and ‘make things official.’
What does this mean for the health of the relationship?
Should it just end?
The necessity of a Talk in the first place puts this assessment into doubt. Women who don’t eventually push for commitment understand the nature of that relationship is temporary or there really is no potential, so there won’t be a Talk. The problem I see with making this formality something overtly public is that it has the opposite effect of qualifying what may be genuine desire without it. When The Talk enters into out popular consciousness it then becomes yet another ‘typical male’ fault.
Men become infantilized for not understanding women’s correctness in wanting a formalized declaration of monogamy. Once that infantilization becomes the accepted truism for women, what might’ve been a very good pairing of a man and a woman based on an organic genuine desire, turns into an obligation on his part to convince her that he’s not a child by living above that truism. The relationship becomes less about the genuine interest between the two and more about satisfying the “official” nature of it among men and women plugged into a Blue Pill social conditioning.
Should it just end at that point? If a man’s first act of a coerced monogamy is his capitulating to what amounts to a socially mandated ultimatum I think the woman he surrendered to will subconsciously lose the respect she had for him while they were “undocumented lovers.”
In a case like Rollo’s, or any other married guy here:
How did it happen? How do you get married without Negotiated Desire?
Is it IMPOSSIBLE, and it’s just a matter of minimizing the degree of Negotiation?
Same with having an official girlfriend. When you COMMIT even on the level of a ‘steady girlfriend,’ isn’t that Negotiating Desire by default?
I get this question a lot and for a lot of hard-line guys, even the best thing a married man (or LTR man) can say will always sound like he found a unicorn. You have to understand in my case the last woman I’d been in a formal LTR with before my wife was the BPD I described in the Two Guitars post. I had no intention of getting into an LTR at the time and for a long while, Mrs. Tomassi was one of four plates I was spinning at the time. All of this was above board and we dated non-exclusively for the first 3-4 months.
I began with a rock solid Frame at this time not because I was focused on establishing it, but because I had three other women in rotation and I was entirely indifferent to any idea of exclusivity with any of them. Of those four, Mrs. T was hottest and funnest in and out of bed so I gravitated to seeing her more regularly. I also appreciated her from the new perspective I had in contrast to the psychotic mess my BPD had been. She expected me to be conventionally masculine and I was already filling that role by default because I had a new outlook on women as a result of all that.
We never had a Talk when it came to exclusivity; she simply said that she didn’t like the thought of me banging other women and asked me if she could be my girlfriend. She literally asked to be part of my world during that brief conversation. I’ve had the Frame from the moment we started non-exclusively to where we are now 20 years later.
I’ll say it again, don’t use my example as some model for your own life, but there needs to be an organic flow to how you enter into any LTR.
It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized. As I stated in the beginning, frame will be fluid and conditions will influence the balance, but the overall theme of your relationship needs to be led and molded by you. Even very influential, professional, intellectualizing women still crave the right man to establish his frame in her life. They may fight it bitterly, but ultimately it’s what will make for the best healthy balance she can achieve. There’s a growing undercurrent of mid-life women questioning and regretting their past decisions to remain single into spinsterhood. And for all their late game rationalizations, the one thing they still simply refuse to accept is acknowledging that a man’s frame, the frame their “fierce independence” wouldn’t allow for, was exactly the salve their egos so desperately wants now later in life.
Gentlemen, you will establish frame in any monogamous relationship you have. You will enter her reality or she will enter yours.
@Blaximus “every time I see something like that, I’m like ” what the fuck does this have to do with me??”” “The constant shitting on marriage is getting old and fucking tired already.” Maybe it DOESN’T have to do with you. Maybe we aren’t talking to you or about your marriage. Maybe we’re warning the current and future generations of men who are reading this and thinking about marrying and settling into monogamy, who weren’t lucky enough to have your super badass skillset to keep sex going 40 times a day for the next 100 years. Maybe not everything is… Read more »
@ Ya Luv ya bruh, but…. I don’t think I have all of the answers. I do think I have some. I’m trying to share them with anyone who will think and listen. I even gave a small outline here of what I think. It’s not hopeless. Guys aren’t helpless. They are blinded and brainwashed. They can change, but they have to take responsibility for themselves and their happiness, and if they aren’t married – I give my opinion as to what they should do. I hear guys complaining all the time. I heard it today. I realize it’s a… Read more »
Generally, I want guys to develop strength, mentally and physically. Period. Most guys can do this.
I want guys to know that pussy is a wonderful thing, but it is not the answer to all life’s problems, and if one is foolish and not informed, pussy can have tremendous costs.
So yes, I do ask men to ” toughen up ” and I will continue to do so as long as I speak to men in some capacity.
@YaReally super badass skillset to keep sex going 40 times a day for the next 100 years. C’mon, now, don’t be so hard on poor ol’ Blax. Pron stars have a limited career. Blax isn’t saying that he had it easy. Sure, Blax had a skillset…even I had some sort of skillset, but we had the same FI conditioning to overcome as all the newbies who are going thru hell. And Blax said that he had to work it out. I had to work it out. Even Rollo the Magnificent had to work it out. All of us married dudes… Read more »
“Maybe we’re trying to help guys be fully aware of the risks of committing to monogamy and the way the sexual and relationship dynamics shift when they enter a legal binding contract to do it so that they can make a rational decision whether they should or shouldn’t enter something that’s statistically extremely likely to fail and take risks that could be catasrophic for their life (if they don’t end it early).” this. if any young man I care about came to me and said, “uncle fleez, I’m going to propose” I would have only one thing to say. read… Read more »
Yo yareally, did you see my post about boyfriend destroyer? Gonna go out and try to do a lot of daygame next time and I was trying to figure out a good way to do destroyer that fits my morals lol.
@Blaximus “I’m trying to share them with anyone who will think and listen.” And what about the guys who won’t listen? You know how we get them to listen? By posting shit like those videos that make them go “holy fuck, my wife has said similar things to me…maybe I’m not alone” or “man, my GF promises our sex life will be fine after we get married but I’ve noticed little signs that she’s less attracted to me and it sounds like what this guy went through, maybe that’s something I should look into” or “wow my depressed buddy who… Read more »
@Blaximus Great way to frame the issues. Saira Khan and Steve Hyde: Late (older marriage), Steve is a AFC beta and she Briffault’s her way through raising the kids. She’s not shit testing Steve. She really doesn’t want to fuck him at all. She has no desire to fuck him and is blaming it on being “tired”. “She said she does all she can to avoid sleeping with husband Steven Hyde ” I They have lost all of their masculine/feminine sexual polarity. They are buddies (equalist) even if she is masculine (for her safety and the safety of the kids)… Read more »
@hank holiday “I was trying to figure out a good way to do destroyer that fits my morals” How do I use this chainsaw to cut a tree down when hurting trees is against my morals? With field experience you’ll come to understand that most of the hot girls have “boyfriends” that are just chodes they keep around because they don’t want to say they’re single and you’ll start to dive into the grey area of “I offer a lot of value and she isn’t even happy with that guy…maybe spending time with me is ultimately better for her than… Read more »
Do you want men to adopt a pitbull off the street with no training after a lifetime of being told that pitbull will cuddle up to them and never bite them, or do you want men to be VERY FUCKING AWARE of the risks and dangers of owning a pitbull so that they listen up when we teach them how to own a pitbull in the safest way possible and give them the information they need to decide whether they want a pitbull or not, and to help rein in the pitbull that’s currently biting their fucking arm off? This… Read more »
@scribblerg
If you found the Brock case interesting, guess what is going to happen to these three police officers:
Three Toronto police officers are accused of sexually assaulting a female colleague in a downtown hotel room while she was too intoxicated to consent and slipping in and out of consciousness, according to new details in a court document released Tuesday.
Basically the Crown will establish she was too drunk for consent, and the DNA will prove sex took place. Meanwhile the media has started the crucifixions.
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2016/06/14/police-document-details-gang-sex-assault-allegations-against-cops.html
The Red Pill isn’t just some useful knowledge, it saves lives.
Okay. Read some more about BF Destroyer it and I understand a little better. I just mostly try to come from a value adding perspective and not fuck up good relationships just to practice. Girl from last FR was begging for it and it just got me thinking and rexamining a lot about it. I was just looking for a quick way to determine what kind of relationship she was in, but I see that from the fact that she ACTS attracted THAT quickly (was a 45 sec convo) and pops off the BF comment that fast, pretty much says… Read more »
“This is brilliant. Great comparison of being in a LTR with a woman and owning a pit bull.”
agree. big time.
@Ya
when you write like this – sensible, rational but still heartfelt, non-grandiose, relatable – men will listen.
@Hank @YaReally
I was chatting with a girl whose bf is a marine she gets to see once a year. She is planning to move to his location after she finishes school. She was pretty down about their ldr. I expect that she has a fuckbuddy, but she wasn’t dressed like she was prowling. She just wanted some male attention, I expect. No reason to do BF destroyer…her relationship is in the shitter already.
I don’t think there is discordance at all with what Blax, myself, Rollo, ASDgamer, or YaReally or Scray are saying. On the one hand you have guys in LTR game that are playing married red pill game (natural or learned). So there is the discussion of Relationship game similar to when Pua’s dissed Joseph W. South on the old mASF forums for discussing relationship game On the other hand there is PUA guys who aren’t acknowledging what ASDgamer just said: “And Blax said that he had to work it out. I had to work it out. Even Rollo the Magnificent… Read more »
I don’t ever have a problem with discussion. Just sometimes, when the discussion is crazy negative I speak up in the opposite direction. A little balance. http://www.bloggang.com/data/s/sabaydee-thailand/picture/profile.jpg @ SJF ” They have lost all of their masculine/feminine sexual polarity. They are buddies (equalist) even if she is masculine (for her safety and the safety of the kids) and he is feminine. She has the dominant job and income It’s just a simple case of I love you, but I’m not in love with you. The desire dynamic was lost.” This. This is what I saw in the video. It’s also… Read more »
Men think that they are marrying a pretty kewpie doll when really they are getting in the ring with a pit pull and they are Chihuahuas.
@ asd
Not necessarily.
@Blax
Nice NAWALT, lol.
Women are not pitbulls.
Nor are they pretty kewpie dolls.
They are women. AWALT to a greater degree. A man cannot afford to have his mind occupying some kind of Disney World. A man must understand what he’s doing at all times, in every situation. Grown ass men cannot think as children do.
That’s a part of growing from a child/boy to a man that’s being lost and corrupted.
Social bullshit, religious bullshit, feminist bullshit. None of it conducive to being a man. Most of it tightly held onto by men.
See the disconnect?
@asd
You will never see me type NAWALT.
Ever.
Don’t get it twisted.
@SJF “On the other hand there is PUA guys who aren’t acknowledging what ASDgamer just said: “And Blax said that he had to work it out. I had to work it out. Even Rollo the Magnificent had to work it out. All of us married dudes had to work it out.” Ya, we’re trying to help them work it out. By discussing it and waking them up. Which is apparently an issue. What, you guys had to do it the hard way so you want other men to, as well? “Is it in your interest to marry? Is it worth… Read more »
@Blaximus
Hell I’m even okay with a guy getting married, as long as he fully 100% understands the risks and how marriages end up like that guys and how they end up like yours.
But that guy has been socially conditioned to believe that doing everything the opposite of how YOU do it, will get him the marriage YOU have and the Red Pill community is the ONLY place he’s ever going to see data to the contrary…sorry if it makes you uncomfortable but men shouldn’t adopt a pitbull without understanding the potential risks of being a shitty owner.
it is interesting Blax, that you are on the do-over marriage… Learned your lessons.
Most guys I know who went down the road to #2 are pretty happy, having learned a lot in the process all around. hell even the guys on 5 and 6 (yup!) are happy, they know what may come.
It’s the guys on 0 and 1 that need the most help.
@ Ya ” Hell I’m even okay with a guy getting married, as long as he fully 100% understands the risks and how marriages end up like that guys and how they end up like yours. But that guy has been socially conditioned to believe that doing everything the opposite of how YOU do it, will get him the marriage YOU have and the Red Pill community is the ONLY place he’s ever going to see data to the contrary…sorry if it makes you uncomfortable but men shouldn’t adopt a pitbull without understanding the potential risks of being a shitty… Read more »
@Blax Did you watch The Matrix? Most men are hardwired into submitting to the FI because they were conditioned to since childhood. It’s far worse than you watching Oprah and thinking that you needed to be more sensitive. Simply your charm can probably turn a lot of men around because they will want to be with you and emulate you and will accord you a lot of respect. I can get women to agree with me about the Red Pill, but it doesn’t do men much good. I lack your charm with men. I’m working on it and seeing some… Read more »
“Btw, I’m not scared to lose all my shit, and I’m tired of that argument.”
This times a million. I really hate that weak frame that guys use over and over… Not an abundance mindset, and that is the great weakness in it.
@Sentient
It’s the guys on 0 and 1 that need the most help.
Oh shit, heeeelp!
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-experience-is-a-great-teacher-and-sometimes-a-pretty-teacher-is-a-great-experience-evan-esar-56-63-17.jpg
@Sentient I learned a lesson from exploding marriage #1. I don’t consider this one a ” do over “..lol, but I am unwavering this go around. Rock-fucking-solid and happy as hell. My first marriage was crazy happy until I left what I knew to be true and real. My bad. My 19th comes up in 2 weeks. If for any reason, this marriage were to go south, I have no doubt that I did it correctly. Anything is possible, bad shit happens, but confidence is high as a motherfucker. For the 0-1 guys, I can only hope that they start… Read more »
Blaximus and Ya are two great coaches on different ends of the spectrum.
Blaximus is the guy who says, “get out there and win” and guys fucking do it because he said to.
Ya is the guy who says, “here are the plays we’re going to run today. you all know why because we broke it down in detail over the last week of practices and that’s why we’re going to win. because we’re prepared”
men need both kinds of coaches for different parts of their lives and we’re lucky as hell to have both here in one place
@Blaximus “I agree. And I’m all for telling him to forget all of what he might think he knows, and go back to the basics.” And do you think he’s going to listen to you? Why? Because people that know you well respect you? It doesn’t mean shit. You’re just a name on a screen to some guy who ventures here from some Blue/Purple Pill forum. WHY should he forget what he thinks he knows? Softek hasn’t been burned yet, so WHY should he listen to all of us about getting out of his BPD relationship? Do you get what… Read more »
There are a lot of guys who read the comments that are not as fucked or clueless as Steven Hyde in the videos that YaReally posted. Guys that can congruently say: “Btw, I’m not scared to lose all my shit, and I’m tired of that argument.” Or guys that can tell others: “For the 0-1 guys, I can only hope that they start out right and MAINTAIN. They need to cement their frames before tying any knots. And they need to know what they need, not so much what they want, and vet like hell for that. Date-a-bitch for a… Read more »
@SJF “There are a lot of guys who read the comments that are not as fucked or clueless as Steven Hyde in the videos that YaReally posted.” There are a lot of teachers in a classroom who can do algebra. It doesn’t do the students any good to not be taught what 2 + 2 equals even if you guys already know it and figured it out on your own. The book teaching 2 + 2 isn’t FOR you. “It still seems that the antagonism is couched as don’t do relationship game” We’re saying if you’re determined to adopt a… Read more »
@Sentient: “who’s saying I don’t already? [and leave whistling a tune…]”
That’s a weak form. “What do you mean “get“? is stronger.
@Blax
@asd
You will never see me type NAWALT.
Ever.
Don’t get it twisted.
Then please put the cookies on the lower shelf for me so that I can understand what you meant by:
@ asd
Not necessarily.
in response to my comment:
Men think that they are marrying a pretty kewpie doll when really they are getting in the ring with a pit pull and they are Chihuahuas.
Most betas are Chihuahuas and sex declines steadily with the length of marriage, in line with women’s wishes, per statistics.
http://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2014/12/4/sex-question-friday-how-often-do-married-couples-have-sex
@ SJF I’m not ever in favor of men being fearful. Having a healthy fear is much different than being fearful. I didn’t get scrib’s declarations…where the fuck did that come from? That’s why I reacted as I did. I loves me some scrib, but the whole ” women are going to chop off your balls..” talk just got to be a little too much today. My divorce consisted of my wife and I getting divorced. That’s it. No court ordered ass fucking involved. BUT… I sold the house because I couldn’t use a house that large, and since it… Read more »
@ asd
” Not necessarily.
in response to my comment:
Men think that they are marrying a pretty kewpie doll when really they are getting in the ring with a pit pull and they are Chihuahuas.”
ASD, I thought I was clear before man. Men have to realize that they MAY be marrying a woman that they don’t know how to deal with, or what they are getting into.
I haven’t had that experience. Twice. I know many married men that have not had that experience.
Hence, Not necessarily.
I still don’t get the antagonism in today’s comments. I see that back and forth seeming adversarial, but don’t believe what everyone is saying is actually adversarial to the Masculine Imperative. I see everyone’s comments actually backing the Masculine Imperative
this is just guys sorting shit out, everybody got props for Rollo, Ya, Blax etc.
@YaReally “I haven’t even read scribblers posts.” I see a problem there. Scribbler inadvertently posted a negative post today @3:24 PM mistakenly from the user comment name “love2015” because of his new computer (and stated so @ 3:29 and Blax was mostly responding to that, not your posted videos. Your posted videos were an excellent example of how to not be a shitty, pussified man who entered into a situation with no possibility of it turning out well 10 years later. None. Blaximus’ posts really weren’t bagging on you. He was following a different line of thought. I’m not confident… Read more »
@Blaximus “I am struggling with the concept of having to explain to men why they shouldn’t be afraid and why they must be strong.” That’s why Naturals generally don’t make good teachers. It’s not that they aren’t good, it’s that they have a solipsistic tendency that makes it hard for them to relate to how other guys don’t just “get it” the way they do, and they get frustrated with them because it’s so obvious to THEM. Then they flip the Monopoly board over and storm off because the discussion is too frustrating to them. But those guys looking for… Read more »
@Blaximus The reason it’s important for guys to understand that you don’t have a NAWALT that you screened for who’s just incapable of biting your face off, and that the reason you haven’t gotten your face bitten off is because you are executing Red Pill strategy (consciously or subconsciously) is because they think their girls ARE unicorns. “oh I met Jenny at the library not the bar, so she’s one of those NAWALTs like Blaximus has, so I won’t get burned”. They have to understand that the reason your pitbull isn’t biting you is because you aren’t backing it into… Read more »
Blaximus finds it a foreign concept that men cannot embrace the masculine. That men these days embrace the feminine in themselves. I actually find it foreign that a guy has to get kicked in the balls to wise up, or to be bitten in the face by a pitbull to do an about face or embrace red pill. Or be divorce raped to understand the game. I never actually had to have it that bad in order to strive. Sure I’ve faced a lot of adversity in taking a harder path in my profession and millions of hobbies where I… Read more »
@Blaximus “So initially I want men to understand that they can’t operate from a position of weakness and fear. Ya is correct, in that I am not detailed enough in my offerings, but as you state, there are men here that will get it/ have gotten it. I am struggling with the concept of having to explain to men why they shouldn’t be afraid and why they must be strong.”
I read you loud and clear and resonate with your message.
Same as when YaReally posted the Tyler videos about Power vs. Force concepts by David Hawkins.
Women at their worst = status whore ( a whore, as in a sell-out status) Men at their worst = conquest whore (a whore, as in a “sell-out” for conquest). Yet women gotta be status’n and men gotta be conquest’n (I guess it’s in the DNA). Best if everybody do it with at least a small nod to Rodney King though. When people forget that – that when the shitshow always ensues. World has been pretty stinky lately imo. For instance – that vid of that Saira Kahn – what a glorious cunt! What a dumb-cunt move. Apparently not even… Read more »
@ The Man She is not dumb at all. She manipulated him fair and square in the chess match. She checkmated him. He’s the dumb one. Without a clue. BRIFFAULT’S LAW: The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place. Steve Hyde’s problem was he provided her with no benefit for her after he provided her with her natural offspring and then a difficultly acquired adopted child. She followed her firmware. She achieved her objective. Of course she dissembled… Read more »
Practice makes possible.
SJF – no pretty much you’re wrong and I’m right, cause your look’n backwards in time and I’m look’n forward in time, wrt to the Saira Kahn affair (conquest’n feel so right don’t it brother). “Steve Hyde: clueless, Beta, AFC, he fucked up. He never looked for red pill or game. Even if he would have found it, it is likely he would be inept, because of lack of desire or mastery. His mistake.” As far as anyone knows, you just be makin some shit up about Steve. You might be right (I doubt it’s that simple though), but you… Read more »
@TheMan
You’re wrong. Steve is stupid. It’s obvious to anyone who is Red Pill, which you obviously aren’t. I watched him and he’s a fool.
No argument that Saira will mess up her future, but that’s a red herring you threw out there.
Men at their worst = conquest whore (a whore, as in a “sell-out” for conquest).
No, men at their worst are Blue Pill idiots.
@YaReally As a natural you aren’t consciously thinking “I’d better not back this pitbull into a corner and poke it with a stick”, you just naturally aren’t doing it. But guys are being conditioned to believe that the more they back their pitbull into a corner and poke it with a stick, the more that dog will love them and they’re getting their faces bitten off and poking the pitbull MORE thinking that’s going to help fix things because they screened for a NAWALT. A better analogy is that the Chihuahua is being submissive to the pit bull just as… Read more »
@SJF 7:13 comment. I agree with your post. If you’re married and afraid of losing anything to a wife, then you have already lost your frame and are in hers. Being in her frame is just a slow frustrating death for a man. Life has inherent risk in any endeavor, and the smart man mitigates risks and avoids others. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t get married again, but I would have kids.
@Blaximus I don’t know who you hang out with, but guys like you are a rarity. I doubt that I actually know anyone in real life like you. Every guy I know defaults to the golden rule with their wives expecting reciprocal treatment. Obviously that doesn’t work. You are really good at gaming yourself, and you kind of create your own reality. It’s a bit hard to take your perspective seriously when you can just “keep your mind free of unnecessary clutter” like logic and facts. lol. Nothing against you. Nothing you say about game is wrong or anything, but… Read more »
How are they going to make that decision when informing them of the risks in a contract that is VERY FUCKED in 2016 with women of this generation and the next, when informing them is “too negative”? This reminds me of the usual schizo narrative of tradcons and purple pillers. When they hear about young men reading Red Pill sites, they go: “Wow, that garbage is, like, so negative, biased and misogynistic! Not all woman are psycho sluts, you know! Young men need positive, constructive guidance. They’ll just become angry, bitter dudes if they keep reading this trash! They shouldn’t… Read more »
“I see both sides (LTR game and STR PUA game) being on the same Masculine Imperative side and complementing each other in the ongoing discussions. I’m not generally so agreeable, but I could cosign most every post this afternoon on both sides of the discussion.” And Fleezer’s comment about Blax and Ya also. +1 It’s all good stuff. Different perspectives and tactics serving the same strategy. It sometimes comes off as a pissing match here on TRM, but if you want to help yourself all of what is offered here is good. Ya, you can’t make the stubborn mule drink.… Read more »
@Blax About 50% of men in 1st marriages end up divorced after 7 years by their wives. Consider that only 20% of UMC men end up divorced. Then, the divorce rate of LC and LMC men is probably more like 70%. What you see happening or not happening to your friends depends highly on your social context. Of course, UMC men are frequently cuckolded by their wives and are denied sex by their wives so that by age 70, half of men aren’t even having sex once a year. Another quarter get it once a month to several times a… Read more »
You guys are missing the point with the pitbull analogy.Sure poking the dog will get your meat house systematicaly torn down by a real dogmatic dog that won’t let go unless it is to get a better hold.But the quikest way to get ass fucked is to lose alpha frame,a real dog will grab you by the neck and fuck you in the ass. Pitbull ownership and marriage aren’t for everyone. Old man story time.In my early 20s I had a trany shop on the south highway,one of my regular customers built custom v8 trikes every humpday afternoon I would… Read more »
“Old man story time.In my early 20s I had a trany shop on the south highway”
http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5953751.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Caitlyn-Jenner.jpg
This no longer means what you thought it did…
CJ
asd – “No, men at their worst are Blue Pill idiots”. Haha – you funny as fuck. Can’t judge character – you, eh?
@CJ
Transmission shop,,not in Trinidad,home of tranny Annie.Hope you get the point wise ass.
@ YaReally I don’t think I even have to get out, because she’s going to leave on her own. I saw this coming. I was 25 when this started, she was 29. I’m going to be 27 soon and she’s going to be 31. Just hit the worst possible part of the Epiphany Phase. Got to get the whole stressful Epiphany Phase ride and will probably be getting dumped off at the station soon while she heads for greener pastures to a Beta Provider who will give her a baby and a home, which I can’t give her. I’m not… Read more »
“Hope everyone else is reaching new heights also.” word is spreading. men are internalizing it. I saw “hypergamy” in a commenter post on zerohedge the other day. red pill thought in finance and politics easily transfers to red pill thought about women and vice versa as “the matrix is everywhere”. it is also puzzling why an institution like hollywood, so deeply rooted in the F.I., would wide release two of the most dangerous films ever produced (the matrix, fight club) in the same year. ’99 was a wake up call for a lot of men. and it continues to this… Read more »
@ Pinelero “If you’re married and afraid of losing anything to a wife, then you have already lost your frame and are in hers. Being in her frame is just a slow frustrating death for a man. Life has inherent risk in any endeavor, and the smart man mitigates risks and avoids others. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t get married again, but I would have kids.” Reminds me of a paragraph I was reading last night in the book “The Black Flag” under rules of engagement by Shark (page 109 of 139). (These rules of engagement parallel Roissy’s… Read more »
@Softek
My intrinsic/internal motivation is basically zero right now. I’ve never faced that reality head on and that’s why I’ve always just withdrawn from life. I was just fooling myself to think I could progress further without addressing that core issue. That much hasn’t changed.
Cool! Another opportunity for growth!
@fleezer
stress is required to get an organism to grow and adapt. the F.I. is the stress and the rediscovery and refinement of the red pill is the adaptation.
the FI is a cancer, stealing nutrients. Stress can kill an organism.
The FI doesn’t have men in a gym. Your analogy doesn’t work here.
Steve Hyde’s problem is that his wife simply wasn’t attracted to him. He invested too much in her and the children and he ended up an empty shell of himself that his wife didn’t want to fuck. He entered a fog of marriage hell and put himself in a position the most of Andy’s guy friends could either avoid or claw their way out of with manosphere help and little hard work. It wasn’t that Steve Hyde fucked up by entering marriage or a LTR with children, it is that he had no fucking clue about how to proceed. His… Read more »
TheMan’s comments illustrate a common problem among men: Betas expect a woman to act and think like a man. Then those men become bitter because women don’t act and think like men.
fleezer – I would agree with your analysis depending on how you define redpill. redpill = knowledge about the social conditioning that blinds one to the underlying innate gender factors and associated social structures that are contingent on these innate gender factors, said blinding social conditioning mainly performed by way of false-virtue-signalling. The innate gender factors can be summarized as: women = innate addiction to status and innate proclivity to fiercely compete over status definitions. Lower compunction wrt operating as such. men = innate addiction to conquest and innate proclivity to fiercely compete over definitions around resource valuations. Lower compunction… Read more »
@Asdgamer “the FI is a cancer, stealing nutrients. Stress can kill an organism.” I’d suggest you read Nassim Taleb’s “Antifragile: Things That Gain From Disorder” The trick is to have more energy than the cancer can suck out. Stress is required for an organism to build systems of strength. No stress makes an organism weak also. The trick is to organize strength garnering systems so they operate to have minor stresses harness low downside and high upside. Rather than hugely mitigating the downside and thereby severely limiting upside (strong finance parallels there too). Is Softek stronger than he was last… Read more »
Softek “I don’t think I even have to get out, because she’s going to leave on her own. I saw this coming. I was 25 when this started, she was 29. I’m going to be 27 soon and she’s going to be 31. Just hit the worst possible part of the Epiphany Phase. Got to get the whole stressful Epiphany Phase ride and will probably be getting dumped off at the station soon while she heads for greener pastures to a Beta Provider who will give her a baby and a home, which I can’t give her.” Look man, YOU… Read more »
@The Man
There you go trying to re-define things again. Did you know a lot of this has already been written?
The following document embodies a series of principles that outline the tenets and beliefs of the red pill community:
https://illimitablemen.com/archives/understanding-the-red-pill/red-pill-constitution/
“the FI is a cancer, stealing nutrients.” disagree. cancer: 1. a malignant and invasive growth or tumor 2. any evil condition or thing that spreads destructively the FI is an overblown version of a healthy and necessary balancing force to the masculine, which has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years, and like everything in nature that balance shifts back and forth like a pendulum. yes, it is appears similar to cancer in that it started from a base of normal and healthy operation and morphed into a destructive and evil condition, but it differs in that we don’t want… Read more »
@fleezer For WOMEN, the FI is a plus. It gathers resources for them and their seed. Otoh, for MEN, the FI takes their stuff and robs them of their masculinity. For MEN, the FI is a cancer. I’m not arguing against lifting, but I am criticizing your choice of analogies. The FI doesn’t strengthen men. Not even after the Red Pill. Men get back their stuff at best. Knowledge improves men’s opportunities…no argument there. After the Red Pill, will men’s internals be stronger than those internals were back in, say, 1950? I doubt it. I don’t think that our current… Read more »
SJF – look, I’ll go back to our original exchange here to hi-light where I think our difference of opinion lies (cause your more recent comment is just more of the same, plus rehashing old redpill themes that we are all very familiar with here already, including myself, of course). You said: “And The Man your point is invalid. Don’t And The Man your point is invalid. Don’t wish for how things ought to be, adapt to how things are.” SJF – I think that short portion of your commenting, really does hi-light the problem you are having wrt appreciating… Read more »
asd – “TheMan’s comments illustrate a common problem among men: Betas expect a woman to act and think like a man. Then those men become bitter because women don’t act and think like men.” Please reread my comment directed at Fleezer where I outlined what I think redpill is. First – unless you have exceedingly poor reading comprehension, it should be crystal clear I am not at all bitter towards women (but a little concerned about a lack of self-awareness apparent among both men and women – yes). Second – as well, unless you have exceedingly poor reading comprehension it… Read more »
TheMoron’s comments illustrate his pontification and self-diddling common among betas and his denial of his own bitterness, recently directed towards Saira WhateverHerLastName is. Very beta and self-delusional. But I repeat myself.
Wild Man, you’re as boring a troll as ever and still pushing your equalist horseshit.
“For WOMEN, the FI is a plus. It gathers resources for them and their seed.” yes, but only temporarily. forced wealth redistribution never works long term, so while it appears they are gaining in resources, they are actually setting themselves up for a massive fall. “for MEN, the FI takes their stuff and robs them of their masculinity.” I think that men are more powerful than that. Do you think Blaximus can really have anything taken away from him? lol. these guys that are being “robbed” are actually willingly handing over their wallets and their balls. but I see your… Read more »
@The Schizophrenic Man:
Just because you believe you know what your muddled thoughts mean does not imply that people trying to reverse engineer them lack reading comprehension.
I see what you did there Wild Man. Quickly substituted common human decency for egalitarianism. That sounds so much more noble. But it is still shit for strategy. But you are still just commenting with complication without depth. I’m all for common human decency. I think it is great. Just not using it as a tool in business negotiation or intersexual relationship game. I’m all for people giving me money in business and a girl spreading here legs for me. Common human decency is the end result of a game well played and desire achieved. Not a strategy. (Keep in… Read more »
” . . . while it appears they are gaining in resources, they are actually setting themselves up for a massive fall.”
At its apogee the pendulum must fall.
“the FI appeared on the scene at a time when many western men were fat and lazy with success and not really questioning anything.”
You are confusing the FI with its political manifestations. The FI appeared on the scene long before Man appeared on the scene.
“….is that situation what’s best for the future of western society? who knows?”.
The question should be more properly framed: who cares?
Bottoms up approach, guys.
The top down approach has slipped away, coincident with the manosphere being invented.
@SJF: “Bottoms up approach, guys.”
Which makes the question, “What’s best for my deer habitat?”
asd – jeez man – you still don’t get it. I called Saira a dumb cunt because she thinks she is not subject to the provision of due respect for others, without consequences as such naturally flowing to herself, for failing that provision. That be dumb. Since this been around the issue of sexual attraction, and status-seeking, it be “dumb” + “cunt” = “dumb-cunt”, as an apt descriptor given said dynamic. If you want to call that bitter on my part, alright, I’m not going to argue too much about that (I would more so say that my sense of… Read more »
@SJF
I’m all for common human decency.
I’ve found that common human decency is actually quite rare.
@WildAssFart
asd – you are showing yourself up as a very binary thinker.
Lol, I’m actually very creative. But I can smell horseshite even when it’s heavily perfumed.
“Common”human decency is as uncommon as naturally occurring egalitarianism.
@wild man
I would be really cool with you not exchanging comments
You attempting to define red pill and saying shit like “what you call the FI” is trolling
@SJF
Yeah, I also spotted that WildAssFart was calling his equalism “Common Human Decency).
@Rollo
Maybe synthetic shit has been given a bad rap. If we could just perfume it and maybe blend it with some additives….
In the beginning was the Plan and then came the assumptions and the assumptions were without form and the plan was completely without substance and the darkness was upon the faces of the employees and they spake amongst themselves, saying “It is a crock of shit and it stinks!” and the employees went unto their supervisors, saying “It is a pail of dung and none may abide the odor thereof.” and the supervisors went unto their division managers, saying “It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide its strength.” and the division managers went unto their system managers,… Read more »
“Which makes the question, “What’s best for my deer habitat?”” Destroy the overstory of the high tree canopy that soaks up all of the light energy. Similar to how The Matrix functioned to steal all the energy. Then multiply the stem count of trees,shrubs and forbs,as well as warm season grasses from shoulder height down. This provides cover, food and a lush habitat for deer, rabbits, pheasants, red fox and turkey. If you let Mother Nature succeed in creating a succession forest, or biology have its way, you have the mess some men are in now. Habitat manipulation is analogous… Read more »
@SJF
Habitat manipulation is civilization with laws and penalties against adultery. We are in a post-apocalyptic world where game enables us to succeed against the natural odds.
My gratitude to all the men who replied to my post. It’s been a good week on the marriage front. One thing I forgot to include in my first comment is that my mom is getting old and when she told us about the high school woman, she forgot that she’d already told me about her on the phone last week. My wife doesn’t know this, but on the phone my mom also mentioned that she’d brought high school woman up to date on what I’d been doing since the 90s, from marriage and kids to career stuff and some… Read more »
Are you guys aware of the novels of Michel Houellebecq, the French writer? He’s big in Europe but not so much in the US, I believe. Particularly his first novel, “Extension de la domaine de la Lutte”, which would translate as something like „Extension of the domain of War“ and got stupidly translated into „Whatever“ in English ist the most Red Pill piece of literature I ever found out of a direct Red Pill context. It appeared as early as 1994. It features a 30 year old character who is chronically depressed and almost mad because he never had sex… Read more »
But I’m talking about a Solitary Man being the operator in habitat manipulation. Tearing down and rebuilding on the ground what Mother Nature’s succession forest has left him with on his own personal wildlife habitat farm.
Not in the Solitary Man being the subject of habitat manipulation by the overstory tree canopy.
@Marquis: have you read Rollo’s posts on lane changing, epiphany phase? You have what you describe as a “cheerleader type party girl” that never married (but probably had a bunch of alpha boyfriends) and now she is rather clearly looking for a provider, and you fit the bill. Bonus points if she also sees you as partly alpha.
I just don’t get why your mom is enabling this so much. She probably doesn’t get along with your wife too well?
@TheMarquis My wife doesn’t know this, but on the phone my mom also mentioned that she’d brought high school woman up to date on what I’d been doing since the 90s, from marriage and kids to career stuff and some entrepreneurial ventures I’ve done. And the response was something like “Maybe that’s why I’m not married yet – that’s the kind of man I’m looking for”. That’s so strange to me. We barely knew each other in high school – a little bit because our parents are friends, that’s it. She was very much the cute cheerleader type of party… Read more »
@SJF: “Destroy the overstory of the high tree canopy that soaks up all of the light energy.” Right. And what is best for doing that? And so on. @The ASD Gamer: “Habitat manipulation is civilization with laws and penalties . . .” Right. And so the world is started, from the bottom up. Right now my own primary interests are bicycles, smooth hard pavements to ride them on, violins and classical literature. All of these things are the products of and dependent upon Western civilization. By looking after my own selfish interests I innately look after Western civilization. From the… Read more »
SJF – jeez man, you say shit like “What don’t you get about she didn’t want to fuck him?” Why do we even need to talk about that? Of course she doesn’t want to fuck him – cause the evidence presented is: cause she won’t, cause she runs from that, cause she tells him to go get another woman to fuck, cause then when he doesn’t she goes dummy-mode and blows it all up by announcing her shit character to the world. I mean SJF why are you even bringing this up? Why are you just restating the obvious as… Read more »