Good Girls, Bad Girls

goodbad

Culum Struan requoted a really great thought from an old commenter, AnonymousBosch, on Heartiste’s blog from about a year ago and I thought it might make for some good weekend discussions:


All I’m getting at is that every woman has an almost psychopathic longing to destroy any perception of being ‘the good girl’. It’s the most common complaint you’ll hear from women:

“It’s so hard being good.”

Women long to indulge their emotions enough to risk being swept away by them, and it’s this self-indulgence that makes them at risk of being self-destructive: they reach a point where they just want to tear everything down, including the Good Girl, and, most commonly, their beauty. An example is hacking off their hair when they have a breakup.

It’s in their songs, it’s in their literature, it’s in their movies. The social pressure to ‘behave’ drives them to distraction, even as they conform to it, meaning they’re internalizing this constant battle to be both good and bad: wanting the social approval, rewards and status for being good but desperately-craving social stigmatization to the degree of martyrdom for being bad.

Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!”

This is why it’s beloved of ugly chicks who can’t sexually compete, and those with obvious Daddy Issues.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

If you’re stoic, she gets to indulge her emotions with a safety net that stops her from self-destructing, and she will adore you for it. This is the masculine – feminine relationship. She gets to be weak, knowing you’re her rock. She doesn’t want to lash out at stone that crumbles, whilst simultaneously wanting strong shelter to hide against.

Sexual degradation is part of the risk, and you temper this by always being in control of the situation. Never let her think she’s leading: or her desperation to prove her devotion to you will take her into weird, disgusting places that destroy her.

If you’ve got your player on, I guarantee you will hear some variation of this: “I’d never do this with any other guy, but you make me want to do this and I’m not sure why.”

This is their sexuality out of control by their furious emotional desire to be owned by you – they are swept away – and this is where you need to reign them in with a strong hand and be ‘Daddy’. Otherwise she’ll get stupid notions in her head that by being sexually-outlandish, she’ll be the whore women believe all guys want their wives to be, not realizing that we don’t want to think of the mother of our children blowing dogs and wearing our shit, (unless that’s really your thing).

This is what destroys women and makes the light go out in their eyes: when they degrade themselves for a man they value highly-enough in the hopes of locking him down enough only to eventually disgust him.

Sometimes, the degradation is a sex thing, where she blurts out that she’d blow a horse for you.

Sometimes, it’s physical: she wants you to see her with running mascara and her hair hacked off so you can see how ‘wounded’ and ‘vulnerable’ you’ve made her.

Sometimes it’s emotional: stories of ‘being raped’ or being abused by Exes, designed to fire you up with masculine protective instinct, but instead make you see her as damaged goods. She thinks she is showing you how much she longs for you with these socially-transgressive displays – because Social Status is female currency and power – so deliberately lowering herself in a man’s eyes is the ultimate submission for her – but all she is doing is pushing you away.

During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you, so she has nowhere to hide. Call her your ‘good girl’ as she does it.

Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man, that stops her crossing into actual degradation, where it starts emotionally-messing her up and leaving scars.

That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.

So, take what is happening in this thread: the transfer of money for sexual degradation. It’s the same core process: she’s telling herself it’s about the money, but it’s about submission before the masculine: the trappings of supreme social and financial power. It’s about thinking she’s high value enough to be submitting to Princes and Kings, so the leap to being crapped on or blowing a dog to prove she is ‘a worthy consort’ is a small one for them.

Obviously, it makes no sense to us, but women seem to be clueless as to what behaviour actually makes them attractive, and not repulsive, to men.”


I think one of the reasons AnonymousBosch finds Millennial girls to be more debased is that these girls are the first generation to be counted among the sum result of a preceding 4 generations of feminist ideologies. Likewise, Millennial men are the products of that same 4-5 generations of emasculation, feminization and the deliberate obfuscation of what masculinity “really is” for them. This deserves some explanation.

I’ve gone into the timelines and the evolution of how Hypergamy has been released from social restraints, wholesale, on western society in my Adaptations series of posts, but it’s a good review to understand what AnonymousBosch is relating here; We keep returning to Hypergamy and its regulation as a basis for an expanded vision of social structure, but it’s important to remember the behavioral prompts that women’s biology predisposes them to in that respect. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution we’ve had a systematic conditioning for, and institutionalization of, a social order that prioritizes women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one.

Unilaterally female-controlled hormonal birth control was certainly a catalyst for this social shift, but it’s important to remember that for the past 4 generations women have been raised and acculturated in a social environment not only rooted in the fempowerment narrative, but also one that encourages the excesses of the ‘bad girl’ side of Hypergamy that AnonymousBosch describes here. And as I mention in that post, the social engineering that’s led to feminine-primacy (as well as erasing the inconvenient aspects of conventional masculinity) all centers on optimizing women’s Hypergamy.

So we experience 2-3 generations of women who are conflicted between what that Fempowerment narrative has taught them they should value and the conventional, evolved biological impulses that predispose them to appreciating, enjoying and submitting to sexy male dominance. Instead of being confused and agonizing over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.

They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to prioritize a need for long term security – or to excuse past Alpha Fucks sexual needs – but the primary conflict is still the same, an internal war between the contradicting aspects of her sexual strategies and how they influence her life’s decisions and different phases of her maturity.

In her SMV Peak years, “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” is the message she adopts insofar as it serves her sexual strategy’s immediate interests. The conflict comes when she needs to temper this sentiment with a need to settle into a motherhood role and compromise it just enough to present the appearance of being a prudent choice for long term commitment.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

When men first come to Red Pill awareness about the motivations of women’s sexual strategy it’s very easy to see their behaviors as being intentional or their after-the-fact rationalizations for them as being convenient and expedient in excusing them. There is a definite design to the psychological and social schema women will use to explain their actions, particularly when they’re anti-social, sexist and/or damaging to the men who bear the worst of them.

Not to say men should tolerate this, but it’s important for men to understand the underlying psychology and motivators for women’s behaviors. It would seem AnonymousBosch has embraced this understanding. Again, it’s easy to think you’ll just put your foot down and not tolerate women’s bad behaviors, but this ignores those same female-motivators, sacrifices a real understanding of them and attempts to replace learning to maneuver them with the misguided hope that women will be rational agents and change their behaviors because we say so.

Men of this mindset believe the same ‘equalist’ hope that women will cease to be the “most mature teenager in the house” because they rationally explained to them that they should ignore their base motivators (Hypergamy) and act reasonably. This doesn’t work for women, nor does it work for men when women attempt to convince men to adopt a feminist mindset based on exactly the same appeal to reason. The boner doesn’t lie, and neither does women’s sexually strategic behavior.

In an age of unfettered, socially and legally affirmed Hypergamy it’s counterproductive to expect any woman to self-police her own sexual strategies by appealing to her reason.

The good news, as outlined by AnonymousBosch, is that Red Pill awareness and internalized Game are the same buffering contingencies for Hypergamy as they’ve always been. The trick for men now is to reestablish and embrace a connection to the conventional masculinity that’s been systematically conditioned out of men for 2-3 generations. In fact, there’s no better evidence of this Blue Pill conditioning than the common sense of counterintuitive-ness of embracing a masculinity that puts a man into a position of exercising the dominance women need.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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scray
scray
6 years ago

@keyser

ya you can make up whatever unverified shit you want to cling on to Chad Thundercock’s thighs….

‘Fixed it for you.’

please show me where your EMPIRICAL support for the fix is.

i’m waiting.

it’s cool man, a huge study came out that actually examined people and pretty much backed up what PUAs predicted and supported pretty much zero of Chad T theory.

i’d be sad too.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ keyser The GF loves my beer belly. Thinks it’s cute. Says she doesn’t want me to lose it. Reminds me of what YaRly said about girls liking shit like that because it makes it easier to control you, because then you aren’t as attractive to other women that could take you away from her. Part of the reason I’ve been avoiding an LTR, aside from wanting to see other girls, is I’m still really Beta as far as mate-guarding goes. I don’t know how that shit works. Sometimes when I’ve gone out with her, other guys will stare at… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Sentient

Yareally and HBD… I will be back on your latest comments… later… because pedantic is not a synonym for correct… and there is a leeeeetle something here that is not being answered and lining up.

maybe that’s bc i haven’t been pedantic ‘enough’…lol…bc i’m still blending a couple of concepts…

i’ll wait for your comment though …

good luck!

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

There was a scientific research study in Vegas Strip club named Cheetahs, SHOWED, women loves fat obese men.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@softek “I’m just going through what every guy goes through when he applies game for the very first time to land a chick that is the hottest he’s ever been with.” ya it’s tough. “I don’t think it’s an unreasonable approach for that reason to think of getting fit as a path to DHV.” the looks not looks debate is lolfunny because guys on the other side, for the most part, don’t seem to get the point. looks help but it’s not because there’s anything special about one particular ‘look.’ you should think in terms of social norms. a lot… Read more »

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@softek At first I agreed with you that having a better body would help instill dread *in a relationship* but I don’t think that’s accurate. As others established earlier, when she’s attracted to you, ALL your features are attractive (flipside as yareally points out, when you’re no longer together she despises those same features) because her brain has to rationalize being attracted to you. So muscular, fat, skinny doesn’t matter when she’s into you. There may be something to the fact that being muscular buys into the FI value system, which she subscribes to, and she knows all other women… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray

“the looks not looks debate is lolfunny because guys on the other side, for the most part, don’t seem to get the point.”

It is funny, but this is why…

“looks help but it’s not because there’s anything special about one particular ‘look.’”

Because there is an underlying base level agreement from both “sides” [too strong a word, but use for now] that “looks help”… but it is then persistently denied by the “looks don’t matter” camp immediately thereafter… and then all the goalposts moved in different directions.

Looks help… you said it. explain.

What? How????

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@sentient It’s been explained repeatedly in this thread alone, stop acting like it hasn’t been. Asdgamer had a nice, succinct summary up above, yareally’s 4 points were pretty simple to comprehend. Looks are just an FI bias that say ‘this guy *probably* has the attractive traitsim looking for’. BUT, whether you’re good looking or not, you are going to have to PROVE that you have those core attractive traits before getting the girl. The point of the ‘looks don’t matter’ argument is: if you have limited time to spend on game or the gym(99% of guys will NOT seriously dedicate… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

“looks help but it’s not because there’s anything special about one particular ‘look.’”

Are you your khakis? Or are your khakis just things that you wear?
Are you your biceps, or are they just part of your body?

Do you own your look, or does your look own you?

YaReally points to the moon and says “Look at the moon”.
Some men then start arguing about how he’s got a hangnail on his finger…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Not picking on Softek but he’s brought up some thoughts I haven’t pondered for a while. Like, who put that concern about his penis in his head? Analogy time. Some young man moves into a house and finds it’s furnished, in fact it’s crammed full. You go to visit him and notice that, hmm, the couch in the living room is pretty beat up, springs popping out, smells like cat piss; the coffee table has a broken leg and anything like a beer that gets put onto it eventually slides onto the floor, where there’s a stain on the carpet.… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient for the umpteenth… there is NO UNIVERSAL LOOK that means ANYTHING within CIVILIZED SOCIETY, however, SOCIAL STATUS seems to be very important so different societies just attach high social status signals to certain appearances in 15th cent England if you were a ginger-bearded fat fuck you were considered dead sexy because society said that’s what kings/high social status men looked like now it’s a jacked tall dude…. and so on… so there’s nothing intrinsically important about a particular look which is really the important part about whether ‘looks matter.’ looks HELP because they do help dictate your starting point… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

As Rollo noted previously you may be arguing with a chat bot, or perhaps Rollo is an essay bot

http://www.niemanlab.org/2016/05/an-essay-in-bot-form-text-with-this-basic-text-bot-to-read-about-and-discuss-the-bot-boom/

looks vs game is like money vs oxygen, both are factors but one is essential

which is why

life is 20% game and 80% being jacked

is silly, unless you are a chat bot

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo “You can claim it’s all socialized, but if one guy get’s free gimmie IOIs what is it about his looks that separate him from the guy who doesn’t get the free IOIs?” the fact that one guy’s looks come with a LIFETIME of social conditioning one way, and the other guy’s looks come with a LIFETIME of social conditioning in the opposite direction. the claim that it’s all socialized is enough. ‘are derived from the same of men who are ‘organically’ confident as a result of their looks, what is it about their looks that convey (consciously and subconsciously)… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“there is NO UNIVERSAL LOOK that means ANYTHING” This is just obviously false. Look at the words gross/horrible/disgusting/ugly and look at the associated pictures. You will never see this guy featured? http://a1.files.fashionista.com/image/upload/c_fit,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,q_80,w_460/MTIwOTM1ODc0MjI4NzEyNDc4.jpg There has always been a baseline human ideal of what is beautiful and what is ugly. and yet… “so there’s nothing intrinsically important about a particular look which is really the important part about whether ‘looks matter.’ looks HELP because they do help dictate your starting point wrt those social norms.” Is circular logic if TODAY you say “now it’s a jacked tall dude….” Can you see why?… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“but those modifications still have base-level, evolved, biological arousal cues associated with them to modify in the first place.”

Yeah… some THING with protuberance that will dominate her?

“Game leverages are derived from the same of men who are ‘organically’ confident as a result of their looks”

Not all organically confident men are that way “as a result of their looks.”

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

You can claim it’s all socialized, but if one guy get’s free gimmie IOIs what is it about his looks that separate him from the guy who doesn’t get the free IOIs?

Hey, I know, let’s flip the script.

You’re in a coffee joint, two 20-somethings walk in. One has long, pretty hair and a hip to waist ratio of 0.75, the other has short, frizzy hair and a figure like a beer keg.

Which one do you look at twice? Is it socialization that makes you do so?

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

“This is just obviously false. Look at the words gross/horrible/disgusting/ugly and look at the associated pictures. You will never see this guy featured?”

the associated pics in 2016 Western society? holy shit…….welp i guess that a universal makes….

and that dude looks half-retarded

“There has always been a baseline human ideal of what is beautiful and what is ugly.”

that you have no proof of….

“Is circular logic if TODAY you say “now it’s a jacked tall dude….”
Can you see why?”

except it isn’t if we have EVIDENCE that the STANDARDS HAVE IN FACT CHANGED

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Rollo

“if one guy get’s free gimmie IOIs what is it about his looks that separate him from the guy who doesn’t get the free IOIs?”

This will be thrown into the “subcomms” catch all bucket…

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient “This will be thrown into the “subcomms” catch all bucket…” except is isn’t. there’s a clear explanation given that is backed up by several lines of empirical data, whether it’s PUA FIELD experience, whether it’s actual study results about sex partners, whether it’s actual cross-cultural differences in attractive traits, etc….. you guys just for whatever reason NEED to jerk off to Gandy pics because i have no clue like, Gandy can’t be attractive b/c in THIS society a lot of gay men got together and jerked off and decided to make him a model. nope! it MUST BE that… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray

““There has always been a baseline human ideal of what is beautiful and what is ugly.”

that you have no proof of…”

Really? You can look around at art for millennium… the preponderance of which lands in classic male form, across cultures.

1500’s you say? Why is this standing so long?

comment image

I’m starting to get a feeling you are a grad student?

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“1500’s you say? Why is this standing so long?”

The gays.

I agree that there probably is an aesthetic about a man’s body that is visually pleasing to the eye; but I bet if there was a cultural association with that body type generally belonging to AFC chodes then that body type, ALTHOUGH pleasing to the eye, would no longer be considered attractive to women.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Anonymous This reminds me of Faster EFT. Haven’t done it in a while, but it helped a lot when I did. I’m no paragon of this, by the way. It does work but it’s amazing how much resistance the human mind can generate. Method: observe your thoughts. Notice what bothers you. Then ask the magic question: How do you know? Once you know how you know (i.e. memories, experiences, i.e. the furniture you’re talking about in your metaphor), you AIM at it by focusing on it, and then tap on it. Rinse and repeat until the emotions behind the… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Andy

Do you agree that words such as ugly, disgusting, horrific, deformed, gross, etc. are generally accepted as words that convey a reliably consistent mental image?

How have demons, and monsters and witches and trolls been portrayed throughout time? Why did warriors paint “scary” images on their masks?

How is it possible that one end of the look spectrum is so in agreement, yet the other end is “nah bruh”?

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“Looks and sexual availability sits on the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy while status and ginger fat ass kings sit on the long term provisioning side.”

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3vw0pSBhR1qb9ftxo1_500.gif

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

Since the ‘looks don’t matter’ argument has been rehashed, restated and evidence has been given, let’s focus on the ‘looks DO matter side’.

Specifically what advantage do looks give a man? Can you quantify that advantage? Besides an “unconditioned, visceral reaction” how do good looks directly carry over to p in v? If Michael cera woke up tomorrow with + 25lb lean mass on him, yet not one of his behaviours, mannerisms or beliefs changed, how exactly would his results with women change?

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“How have demons, and monsters and witches and trolls been portrayed throughout time? Why did warriors paint “scary” images on their masks?”

http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1394577964l/21018094.jpg

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

It is impossible for HB4 to experience what it’s like to be HB 9.

There are research(I’m sure Rollo can find it) that shows brain activity “stuff” when looking at beautiful face. These reactions are chemical Brian reactions (not the “infield” reaction.
Beauty is universal. Beauty, is NOT in the eye of the beholder.
Fat acceptance is a feminist bullshits , and I think some men here got infected by it.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” Do you agree that words such as ugly, disgusting, horrific, deformed, gross, etc. are generally accepted as words that convey a reliably consistent mental image?”

Nope.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Harrison This is the really funny part… Yareally has been accurate in describing the effect of looks, but not consistently [damn man I need to get back to those earlier posts with HABD and Ya]… You will get more “free” IOI’s and more eye coding and proximity on first contact, and you may get aggressive 6 and lower women actively hitting on you. You might hit a 7/8 that you “fit all her wish list criteria” and need little game to get… the Fool’s Mate phenomenon. You will also find 6/7 girls that will be angry at you, think you’re… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Blax and the beautiful girl

comment image

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo “And yet the wives of the rich, high status men they’ve been conditioned to be attracted to still fuck the hot pool boy who’s only got his looks (and likely youth) going for him.” k, and? you realize why, right? SOMETIMES the ‘rich high status men’ do not BEHAVE that way around the women, but let’s assume you’re talking about a killer player who acts correctly these men NEGLECT their wives, and their older wives fuck the pool boy PRECISELY BECAUSE the pool boy CAN BE CONTROLLED (no high status young pool boy is even going to consider some… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” ““There has always been a baseline SOCIETAL/CULTURAL ideal of what is beautiful and what is ugly.”

Fixed that for you.

” baselines ” are subjective.

How many times have I heard ” Asians are gross…Whites are gross…Blacks are gross…”.?

Answer: Enough to ignore baselines.

NaughtyBurrito
NaughtyBurrito
6 years ago

@ Rollo

“Looks and sexual availability sits on the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy while status and ginger fat ass kings sit on the long term provisioning side.”

When a woman has sex with a dog, which side of AF/BB does the dog sit on? Does a ripped, muscular purebreed that rips and dips sit on AF and a fat scruffy looking mutt that fucks her and sticks around to protect her sit on BB?

Since when did looks have anything to do with AF/BB, I thought it all had to do with behavior lol.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@Rollo

And yet the wives of the rich, high status men they’ve been conditioned to be attracted to still fuck the hot pool boy who’s only got his looks (and likely youth) going for him.

so your SMV chart is wrong?

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@rollo Who cares what women rub one out to? They get turned on by monkeys fucking and read books about getting fucked by swamp creatures. But NAWALT I guess… And how does the Sandberg AF BB have anything to do with the looks discussion? You say good looks is tied to AF but how many times does death row have to be brought up to disprove that? @keyzer And how exactly does that ‘brain activity’ translate into those ‘beautiful faces’ getting g laid? I’m sure there’s some brain activity going on when I see recees cups at the store, but… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago
Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” Really? You can look around at art for millennium… the preponderance of which lands in classic male form, across cultures.”

http://img06.deviantart.net/bc4f/i/2015/116/8/3/egyptian_statue_1_by_art_efx-d4jgsnr.jpg

comment image

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

here, even when Henry VIII wasn’t a fat fuck, he was considered to be very sexy and handsome

http://www.marileecody.com/henry8/henry8unknown3.jpg

WOW HIS FACE LOOKS JUST LIKE GANDY’S AND NOT LIKE THE NERD FROM EVERY TEENAGE MOVIE FROM THE 90’S

oh wait it doesn’t…

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@AR at 11:17am GREAT! analogy… but when were you in my garage?!…lol good luck! ___________________ @scray Sentient there is NO UNIVERSAL LOOK that means ANYTHING within CIVILIZED SOCIETY, however, SOCIAL STATUS seems to be very important so different societies just attach high social status signals to certain appearances in 15th cent England if you were a ginger-bearded fat fuck you were considered dead sexy because society said that’s what kings/high social status men looked like now it’s a jacked tall dude…. and so on… this… and to push the point…’high-status’ guys in the 50’s (in US) used to wear flattops…… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” classic male form ” is culturally dependent.

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@scray Is that Paul Dano lol The burden of proof is on ‘looks do matter’ here to show WHY they matter and HOW they make a difference I can only see two reasons to hold onto the belief they do, and not taking the red pill on this one 1) an ugly man who can blame his lack of success with women on something outside of his control. This is basing his worth on externals that he can never attain. 2) an attractive natural who doesn’t realize *what* exactly attracts women, so he goes with what society tells him is… Read more »

quixotic
quixotic
6 years ago

@Harrison Bergeron “Looks are just an FI bias that say ‘this guy *probably* has the attractive traitsim looking for’. BUT, whether you’re good looking or not, you are going to have to PROVE that you have those core attractive traits before getting the girl.” “The point of the ‘looks don’t matter’ argument is: if you have limited time to spend on game or the gym(99% of guys will NOT seriously dedicate sufficient time on both simultaneously), and your immediate goal is putting your dick in pretty young things, learn game. Because game PROVES that you have the core attractive traits… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

obviously there are a lot of unattractive men in here .

I’m outta here.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“1) an ugly man who can blame his lack of success with women on something outside of his control. This is basing his worth on externals that he can never attain.
2) an attractive natural who doesn’t realize *what* exactly attracts women, so he goes with what society tells him is attractive. This is basing his worth on externals which can be taken away or lost.”

3) Madonna/whore who doesn’t want to think of his snowflake closing her eyes and pretending he’s the skinny guy she flirts with down the street.

OHHHHHHHH! That’s right. I went there. j/k. 😉

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” This is just obviously false. Look at the words gross/horrible/disgusting/ugly and look at the associated pictures. You will never see this guy featured?”

comment image

Lmfao.

Whatevs… Sounds ghey to me.

How many women out of a hundred, do you believe, just soak their panties when this guy walks in?

How about when he strolls into a coffee shop in Rio, or a shop in Shanghai?

Lol. There is no spoon, nor is there a universal.

And yet, looks do count. Imagine that?

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Have a good weekend guys.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago
having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Rollo YaReally also states that looks earn a guy free gimmie IOIs. Why? bc in the absence of counter-indications (= chodey subcomms…) girls will ping off the FI/socially programmed EXPECTATIONS of alpha traits being present in a ‘high-status’ male…’high status’ being determined by the culture in question… I’m onboard with how looks’ perceptions can be modified by social/cultural conditioning, but those modifications still have base-level, evolved, biological arousal cues associated with them to modify in the first place. i think you are conflating cause/effect here… you seem to be trying to wedge ‘cultural values’ modifying over time into the process… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Sentient

“there is NO UNIVERSAL LOOK that means ANYTHING”

This is just obviously false. Look at the words gross/horrible/disgusting/ugly and look at the associated pictures. You will never see this guy featured?

you would, if we all lived back in a Mayan village…lol…bc that dude does NOT have a flat head…lol

good luck!

quixotic
quixotic
6 years ago

Two things, off topic: Here is a mini checklist I made for when I’m headed out on a first. Please add to it if you see anything missing: -Eye contact She breaks ec first when you are talking to her (strong ec) When she talks, less ec, you look at your watch, look around the room, “huh what were you saying” (aloof) LAZER EYES FOR THE WIN -Kino Touch tattoos and items of clothing that are interesting “You have sexy hair” run fingers through her hair When walking, put your hand at the small of her back to lead her… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Having a bad day “”i think you are conflating cause/effect here… you seem to be trying to wedge ‘cultural values’ modifying over time into the process by having some bio ‘meaning’ underlying those changes. but ‘culture’ and the values being defined therein (such as what is high status) come from other places/sources…”

And I think you are not a good looking man, and having a bad days.

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Sentient Rollo “if one guy get’s free gimmie IOIs what is it about his looks that separate him from the guy who doesn’t get the free IOIs?” This will be thrown into the “subcomms” catch all bucket… you know, i didn’t think that was what Rollo was asking, but now that you point this out..lol… but seriously, why are you suddenly down on the subcomm stuff?… serious question, bc i remember you COACHING guys on how to have alpha subcomms (and you were right on, too)… over the INTERNET…where you couldn’t even ‘demonstrate’ to them…lol… this stuff isn’t subtle or… Read more »

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@rollo baby study

No shit lol, anyone who says they like Picasso is lying. But what relevance do babies gazing at attractive faces have to the discussion of men’s looks impacting wether or not they can have sex with a woman?

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ quixotic

If I can make a suggestion as a non PUA dude ( scray can snswer better..), but go very easy on the ” sexy ” compliments. Demonstrate that you find her sexy, but let her come to the conclusion.

Run fingers through hair? Abso-fucking-lutely, but let her ” like ” it. Don’t attach a ” thing ” ( sexy ) to it. Let her do all of the attachment stuff, you just lead her there.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

HABD Total believer in sub comms… like x2000! I am not down with them at all… Love sub comms, love game! Yay game. I do want to avoid however, a situation where there is some kind of cognitive bias being demonstrated that results in a default “oh well it’s the subcomms” response when there are other observable phenomena taking place. Things like immediate attraction with zero sub comms… [sub coms or subcomms?] So this is why I am chasing the tail here… because it seems close, then lurches off. Ahhhh… No time yet, but this is crying out for propounding… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@rollo

You haven’t read the Preventative Medicine book or blog series yet have you?

sure I have (both books, all your postings) which is why I can notice when you contradict yourself

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo ” which surprised the hell out of them because they never thought their wives were “all that sexual”.” k well that’s just solved by the guys not actually ACTING high social status (but being rich, having good jobs w/e)…. in which case the women go after dudes who ACT in that way ‘The high status guy didn’t fill her AF hole but he was great at filling the BB hole. ‘ i see. so now you’re pretty much saying high social status actually isn’t sexual at all and that only looks fill the AF hole? you’re so caught up… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

FI :
Women are not visual like men.

FI:
Looks for men are not important.

Am I in a FI thread??

quixotic
quixotic
6 years ago

@Blaximus “go very easy on the ” sexy ” compliments. Demonstrate that you find her sexy, but let her come to the conclusion.” “Run fingers through hair? Abso-fucking-lutely, but let her ” like ” it. Don’t attach a ” thing ” ( sexy ) to it. Let her do all of the attachment stuff, you just lead her there.” Excellent point and i agree with you; dont need to qualify why im doing it, same as when you go to the bathroom- you dont tell a girl you just walk away. I will remember your advice and modify my list.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ scray ” the YOUNGER MAN almost always is a BETA — only low value men need to sleep with or even dally with older women for longer than MAYBE (MAYBE) a night” Disagree. Anecdotally, there was a period in life when I bedded older women. Not for money or any other reason than they had something I found attractive ( experience or looks…not all older women are fugly…lol ). I would/could bone a cheerleader on Saturday night, and smash the church lady on Sunday. Oh, and the premise of How Stella got her Groove back is not fantasy. It’s… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

KFG – but the artist was gay right? At least gays say so.

Blax – strike the beard and the Egyptian looks like a woman. Look a little further in the tombs.

The chinese guy.. That is what a diet high in carbs do to you! But seriously look at the warriors…

Please let me know when you look in the mirror and say “damn Blax… You look really ugly today!”

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ quixotic ” Now i give compliments all the time, but only when they are genuine. I think of it as giving value and do not consider it needy because I dont NEED to give out the compliment, its just what is in my head at the moment i say it. Ex: Damn man that is a sick car if i see someone with a sick car or “You look amazing in that dress” if i want the girl to know i liked her outfit and want to see her in it again/similar outfits. ” Key point exactly. genuine compliments… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo “Scray, so fantasy, not like Don Draper and Mad Men then?” lol THE WHOLE POINT OF MAD MEN IS THAT IT’S A FANTASY. Don Draper is a LIE. Don Draper’s personal life goes to shit because at his core he knows he is worthless and eventually acts like a little bitch…. “This was an interesting read:” the website trying to get you to buy a workout program? ” the baby gaze experiment indicates that beauty acknowledgement is not exclusively a socialized (learned) preference, and as I was saying there is a mental firmware for beauty that comes preloaded into… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Sentient

” Please let me know when you look in the mirror and say “damn Blax… You look really ugly today!” ”

Lol.

As I’ve noted, I’ve never seen myself as attractive as others have said I am. I can’t see it. Maybe it’s a mental/esteem issue I have, but it doesn’t really bother me.

So I look in a mirror and say ” meh, whatever “, but I understand that chicks see something I can’t and they like it.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@blax “Anecdotally, there was a period in life when I bedded older women. Not for money or any other reason than they had something I found attractive ( experience or looks…not all older women are fugly…lol ). I would/could bone a cheerleader on Saturday night, and smash the church lady on Sunday.” a period, huh? so it ended? “Oh, and the premise of How Stella got her Groove back is not fantasy.” how the relationship is portrayed def is. ‘Older chicks go to the tropics to get SMASHED.’ k but that doesn’t impact the point….the way that relationship plays out… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ scray

” k but that doesn’t impact the point….the way that relationship plays out is fantasy”

Okay, yeah. I was talking about the general premise. But sure, it’s a movie in the end.

Btw, I’d fuck Angela Bassett right now and idgaf how old she is…lmao.

( 57 years old. So I’d still be fucking an older woman. Win )

http://www.plentyofcheddar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/angela.jpg

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Rollo And yet the wives of the rich, high status men they’ve been conditioned to be attracted to still fuck the hot pool boy who’s only got his looks (and likely youth) going for him. That, or they divorce the high status husband to pursue the Eat, Pray, Love narrative with a man who lacks her ex’s status, but has the body habitus of a (not overly) muscularly defined Chad T stereotype. i think you are conflating a dynamic again…lol… when i talk about ‘high-status’ being socially conditioned… i’m talking about AF arousal cues…bc that’s what i THOUGHT we were… Read more »

quixotic
quixotic
6 years ago

@Blaximus

“I told her she had gorgeous knuckles”

bahaha!

Masterful. This is the proper attitude. Be the guy who doesn’t make the obvious comment. Self-amusing. playful.

She knew she had beautiful eyes. She knew you knew it. Complimenting her knuckles probably overloaded her hamster and made her think “this blaximus guy is different from other guys tingle tingle”

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@blaximus anecdotal evidence does not refute trends. Like you said there was something circumstantially attractive about the older women you slept with, but there’s no denying men are attracted to youth and beauty. And if its a known phenomenon that older women go to the tropics to get smashed, of course there will be men to fill that demand. No matter what the woman’s SMV, there will be *some* guy willing to have sex with her (the thirst is strong with some). BTW love your examples of you messing with your wife. You’re the epitome of self amusing, like quixotic… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

@scary.
I’m sure you are not a good looking guy..
Forgive me for not being in your shoes.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Harrison Thank you sir. Truth be told, I love my wife very much. She might stab me one day, but it doesn’t change the facts on the ground. But I spent enough of my life stressed. I want to have a good time, and if anyone wants to go with me, the more the merrier. The wife has no choice in the matter. She signed up for this mission. I love to make her laugh ( sappy, I know ), but I also love to scare the shit out of her and make her furious. It’s cute when we… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

… C’mon Granny, your okra’s getting cold

comment image?w=700

Okay. That was the last one. No more old broads.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Sentient

” What is an IOI? i.e. would you admit an IOI is attraction?

what is a “free” IOI?”

An indication of interest (IOI) is an underwriting expression showing a conditional, non-binding interest in buying a security that is currently in registration (awaiting effectiveness by the SEC). The investor’s broker is required to provide the investor with a preliminary prospectus.

Courtesy Investopedia.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Walked into a coffeehouse and a plate bounced up to me and asked, “What’s up?”

So I said, “The positive normal of the tangent to the Earth’s curvature.”

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

comment image

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

comment image

A 3 week old boy will have a hard on looking at her.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” A 3 week old boy will have a hard on looking at her.”

Lol. Nah, he’d see a potential food source.

…just.like.me.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Anybody have an answer for Sentients IOI query?

I’d answer, but I’d probably be wrong. Pulling panties off and bending over is more than an indication. I guess.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

http://artcreationforever.com/images/megan-fox/megan-fox-03.jpg

Ps,
Just notice how you are looking at her beauty and how your eyes are zooming at her face.
Ps2,
Grab this photo and have a year old baby stare, GAZE at it…………and they say social conditioning for beauty, eh.

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
6 years ago

Holy hell. This is still going on? I’m not sure why there is this either-or thing going on here. I can only say that both looks and game matter and that good looks give good-looking guys a major up front advantage – where they then only require a modicum of game to close the deal. On the other hand, the short dumpy ugly dude has to put in a major amount of one-on-one interaction to get to the same end point. Flip the script. He ain’t gonna be drawing eyes from across the room because he’s talking to a hotty… Read more »

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

An IOI is unsolicited Female To Male Interest (A2 from Mystery Method), an approach invite. Actually, unsolicited isn’t correct i don’t think. It’s solicited from your look. But as it’s been said previously, it could be as subtle as her standing in proximity to you.

But let it be said again:
An IOI off of your look is NOT ENOUGH to get you from her standing in your proximity, to getting your p in her v. You still need game, whether learned or natural.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” If what he did could be codified into some silly pickup term, I would call what he did:
The 10-second Annihilate the Entire Room Opener.”

Oh shit. *dead*

comment image

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@all

i guess that Mayan link doesn’t bounce through…

here’s another one on Mayan flatheads…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Damnit Ajax!!!!!

I was sitting here trying to recall the details of a story so I could put it here ( smoke coming out of my ears. Alzheimer’s, it’s what’s for breakfast…now…I think…) and you just dropped this comment with panache and flair.

My ass is thoroughly laughed off.

Gracias.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” An IOI is unsolicited Female To Male Interest (A2 from Mystery Method), an approach invite. Actually, unsolicited isn’t correct i don’t think. It’s solicited from your look. But as it’s been said previously, it could be as subtle as her standing in proximity to you.” @ Harrison I agree. I look at an IOI as direct eye contact with an acknowledgement… a smile, a hello or the proximity. The proximity though…YES!! I’ve mentioned before here, that I will motion for a broad to come closer if I think she’s giving off ioi’s. A vast majority will come ( no… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ HABD

I woulda went for this look if I was back in those days –

http://pre12.deviantart.net/d782/th/pre/i/2013/270/f/d/mini_alien_head_by_nostromo1986-d6o66mb.jpg

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@Ajax So none of your GF’s GFs interacted with the guy at all? What if one of them went up to him at the bar and opened him (suspend your disbelief) and he couldn’t hold eye contact with her, looked down at his shoes, hunched over, got red in the face, gave her one word answers and never asked any engaging questions? What if when she asked him about his job and hobbies he said he had no hobbies and showed no passion or drive for his job? What if, at everything she said, he beamed and told her how… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

But Harrison, Ajax’s post was entertaining af. Lol.

quixotic
quixotic
6 years ago

@Ajax “I find it weird that for all of the bar game I assume is true and going on from commenters that they have not seen the power of looks at least once in their years of hitting bars and clubs. Not to mention the observation that there seem to be so many good looking dudes with zero game out there. Not my experience.” Hey I am a good looking formerly gameless dude (used to be fat). You will get gimmies like they say in thread, ive had girls walk right up to me, open me, kiss me, had their… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ quix

“stare with wide eyes and gaped mouth”

Like what happens with the salt shaker trick?

“Did you know if you pretend to shake salt on your tongue that you can really taste it?”

“O rly??!!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ersdW7xvsOs

I haven’t even watched that yet past the minute mark. But I will already say the funniest part of the video is probably the very beginning.

“You know what a salt shaker is, right?”

“No.”

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
6 years ago

@Harrison Bergeron You are not going to lead me down “what if?” paths. Sorry. Not the point. I can play that game too: Bar Adonis: Looking at her glass of red wine: “So what are you drinking, wine?” That was the extent of the rap ability of one of my best friends, who used to have women approach him in the mall and ask if he would be interested in modeling, mixed with a bit of nervousness. (Used to drive me nuts.) We used to mock his complete lack of rap yet girls would fuck him behind their fiancées’ backs.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” …orbit them like green bottle flies..”

#coffeespray

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

@YaReally, Culum, Sentient, Softek….an update for you. A few weeks ago I wrote about the 28 year old I was banging who suddenly started giving ultimatums. She opened me again last week by text and we chatted, then met up at a party. After the party I took her home banged her hard 3 times. We had breakfast the next morning and I walked her to the train. So far, so normal… I got a text an angry text an hour later from her blasting me for expounding on my political views telling me “you know nothing”. WTF? Typical BPD/Cluster… Read more »

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