Cheaters

Cheating Husband 9

I was picking through The Private Man’s blog a few months back and I came across this gem from about 3 years ago. It’s a pretty quick read if you want to click over and come back. PM recounts an all too common scenario from a Red Pill perspective – casually explaining what the Red Pill is to a guy who’s been immersed in a Blue Pill conditioning and experience for most of his life.

“What’s your blog about?”

“I help men be more attractive to women so they can reach their relationship goals.” It’s my standard go-to response when questioned about my blog.

“I don’t understand.”

“Men can learn how to be more attractive to women and I help them with that.”

James looked shocked and then quickly got angry.

“That’s cheating!” He was emphatic. He was pissed off. He was not attacking me, just my message. Again, the guy code applied.

This reaction did not surprise me. James is of the “be yourself and the right woman will magically appear” school of thought. I know where this comes from. For years I held the same point of view. I didn’t back down.

“A man can learn new things to make himself more attractive to women so he can meet his relationship goals.”

James was stubborn.

“I want a woman to love me for exactly who I am.”

That’s a noble sentiment based on an idealized view of attraction, dating, and relationships. It’s the standard response borne of shitty social expectations. But as I deal in the sometimes difficult realities of the situation, I had to be honest with James.

In this instance, James’ anger was the reflexive response I expect from ‘plugged in’ men when they first come into contact with a Red Pill aware man. It’s interesting when you consider this interaction with a Red Pill Lens. You begin to see just how saturated Blue Pill conditioning is for the average guy in real time. It’s one thing to see its influence in popular media, read a blog or book, see a movie or hear a song on the radio, but it’s quite another to experience it first hand with a guy maybe you know, or maybe you don’t.

Private Man doesn’t elaborate on it in his post, but this exchange is illustrative of how a Blue Pill mindset conditions an almost hostile defensiveness in men. Before I started the blog, and before I had a book out, I encountered this fairly often when I thought a certain man might benefit from my own awareness. It took some time for me to see the wisdom in the fourth law of power – always say less than is necessary.

Blue Pill men’s investment in the “truth” that their conditioning leads them to necessitates a constant confirmation of it from others, from his surroundings and from popular culture blanketing his awareness of it. When a Red Pill aware man verbalizes his truths, his observations, and his perspectives it’s often an affront to that Blue Pill guy’s ego-investments. And these are investments that he’s likely unaware he even holds, and he presumes everyone else holds too.

Think as you like…

There’s a comfort in presuming others believe as we do. It’s an interesting contrast when you think about it in terms of your political or religious views and then apply it to how we differ in respect to our respective Game with women. Most guys understand that other people have differing political leanings and religious dispositions, and it makes sense that they won’t see eye to eye with them. And from a cultural perspective – at least from a progressively western one – we are more or less socially expected to respect those differences in the name of mutual cooperation and mutually beneficial tolerance.

How that actually flies in the real world is a topic I’ll let other blogs explore, but when we consider how the Blue Pill and the Feminine Imperative conditions men across various cultural, political and religious spectrums we see a decided intolerance for even a casual, passing disagreement about how men ought to regard, respect and interact with women.

I won’t rehash the influence feminist ideology and the Feminine Imperative play in that conditions ( I have plenty of essays addressing that), but what I want to draw attention to here is the reflexive response James had with Private Man, and how it finds its root in a subconscious conditioning that was only mildly challenged by PM.

James first presumption was that what PM was teaching men was in some way ‘cheating’. What PM was advising was against a predefined rule set that every man ought to be abiding by. This was a Blue Pill reaction to even the premise of a Red Pill truth – that men can and should learn to interact with women in order to come to a more satisfying relationship with them; one defined by that man’s desires.

This actually offends two rules presuppositions: the first, that men would ever presume to ‘know’ women well enough to outdo other men (women as universal choosers) and second to put his imperatives above a woman’s.

When I interviewed with Alan Roger Currie recently I was asked to give my take on what exactly constituted Red Pill / Blue Pill status, and what my definitions were for the abstract terms of Alpha and Beta. It’s exceedingly difficult to apply concrete definitions in a quick hit info-bite, but with respect to the Blue Pill, Blue Pill conditioning is foundationally about a presumption that all men ought to mutually follow and be accountable to an expected rule set; a rule set that now openly serves feminine-primacy.

I developed this idea in The Second Set of Books post, but with regard to men’s dealing with other men and the implied social contract, there is a definite conflict between men invested in the old set of rules and Red Pill aware men who acknowledge, use and endorse a new set of rules. Thus, using Game or making personal choices based on Red Pill aware wisdom seems like the man applying them is in fact “cheating”.

He’s cheating on the first set of rules that the ‘plugged in’ man expects him to adhere to, and adhere to even when those rules make little realistic sense or have scant appreciable reward for. In other words, a martyr for the concept of honor.

Blue Pill ideology is something learned and internalized over the course of a man’s boyhood into his adult life. When you consider a guy’s upbringing and the extent that the Feminine Imperative conditions and reinforces his investments socially, culturally, religiously, etc., it’s easy to see how ‘natural’ and unlearned it seems to the guy who’s centered his identity on it.

To the greater whole of Blue Pill conditioned men the Red Pill is foreign and an affront to that conditioning. In fact, part of his feminine-primary conditioning focuses on the hope that some man will express some ‘sexist’ remark, or express some unapproved thought about women in the hopes that he can rebuke and correct that man. It’s part of Beta Game to look for opportunities to do just this in the hopes that some woman will witness it and find his gender-heroism attractive:

Every random chump within earshot of your conversation about Game, about your ‘changed’ way of seeing inter-gender relations, about your most objective critical observations of how women ‘are’, etc. – understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of endearing a woman’s intimacy through his unique form of chivalry; that guy, he’s aching for an opportunity to prove his quality by publicly redressing a “villain” like you for your chauvinism. Even under the conditions of relative anonymity (like the internet), he’ll still cling to that want of proving his uniqueness just on the off chance that a woman might read his rebuff and be fatefully attracted to him.

This is the bread and butter of the White Knight beta. It’s best to assume that most guys who pick up on just your Game vibe, to say nothing of overtly talking about it, are going to side with the feminine imperative by default. For practitioners of Beta Game (which is to say the better part of 90% of guys) this is an organic opportunity to identify with women and engage in the same shaming conventions women use without the fear of having it seem contrived.

…but do as others do

That said, this dynamic is not always so dramatic. There was a time when I lived in Florida before I had started the blog, but well after my time at SoSuave, where I had a get together with some friends at my place for some beer and bullshit time. We’d gotten to talking about ‘how our wives were’ and as you might expect there was all of the “she’s the boss” preprogrammed rhetoric being laughed about until I mentioned that my wife was definitely not the boss.

At that point, beer or no beer, it became apparent that the proverbial crab was about to crawl out of the barrel, so then comes the predictable ridicule about how I’m fulla’ shit, I must domineer her, or how I’m being cocky but my wife really owns me like them – because wives have the pussy so wives make the rules. Real, masterful, masculinity was a joke to these men because they were invested in the idea that they were fortunate to have any woman fuck them, and the one who did was not to be disrespected even in her absence. They wanted confirmation of their investment in the ideology that brought them to their indentured existences.

To the Blue Pill conditioned, wives run the show; to think otherwise is a delusion of masculine power for the Blue Pill man, and all men should acknowledge this.

As I mentioned a few posts ago, Hypergamy needs security. Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks seeks to set up social conditions and to socially engineer men who will at least attempt to provide women with some semblance of Hypergamous assurance. It may not seem it, but the social convention that men ought to Just Be Themselves is an effort to confirm this Hypergamous certainty about a man. Men are honor bound (through notions of whatever chivalry might mean) to be who they are, do what they say and say what they mean – and any man who changes that for whatever reason must necessarily be “cheating”.

This trope has the latent purpose of aiding in women’s Hypergamous filtering process. The old set of books, the rules a Blue Pill man expects all other men to play by, find its roots in a man’s worth being the truthful representation of what he really is. This is not so for women. Women’s self-representation is founded in socially acceptable misdirections that serve her Hypergamous interests (makeup to appear young, hair, nails, cosmetic surgery, etc.)

Popular culture ridicules men who falsely “wear masks of masculinity” in a social order that deliberately obfuscates his understanding of what it means, and all while reinforcing female deception of who men really are.

When men aren’t “just being themselves” it’s ‘cheating’. What it’s cheating is Hypergamy. It is cheating the ignorant Blue Pill ego-invested men whose identities are dependent upon men abiding by a rule set that no longer serves their best interests.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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[…] Cheaters […]

Mistral
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>”James is of the “be yourself and the right woman will magically appear” school of thought.”

Right. Because every coach you ever had for football or basketball or whatever told you, “Hey, don’t worry about the rules, don’t bother to do any training or conditioning, don’t worry about technique…just go out on the field and…be yourself.”

>“I want a woman to love me for exactly who I am.”

I dunno, if he’s an outlaw biker or an escaped mental patient, that might actually work out….

rugby11
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“Blue Pill ideology is something learned and internalized over the course of a man’s boyhood into his adult life. When you consider a guy’s upbringing and the extent that the Feminine Imperative conditions and reinforces his investments socially, culturally, religiously, etc., it’s easy to see how ‘natural’ and unlearned it seems to the guy who’s centered his identity on it.”

I biked all over dc thinking about this with my life today.

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[…] Cheaters […]

Jennifer
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Ur soo right, Rollo. I’ve long wondered where all the real men went- lol are the only masculine guys left the outlaw bikers? seriously! What is with these white knight types -get real -no girl likes them. The more they kiss our ass the more we wanna laugh or puke! I have no desire to fuck a FAWNING GIRL–I’M the girl, thk u very much! Feminism kinda did kill romance, by creating these wussy white knights. No one wanna be with them. Some women do like to use them but they’d all really rather fuck a real man, of course.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Men are honor bound (through notions of whatever chivalry might mean) to be who they are, do what they say and say what they mean – and any man who changes that for whatever reason must necessarily be “cheating”. This is a good summary of the Blue Pill mindset. A man keeps his word to other men, because his reputation depends on it, and because that word-keeping will be reciprocated by other men. Because men are men. So far, so good, until the unspoken assumption drops in from Venus that “women are just men who can have babies”, ie. that… Read more »

Tom
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Rollo, let me expand our definition of the red pill way out past the boundaries of sexual experience, to all of life. The blue pill in its totality consists of all the lies “society” as a whole tells people, to mislead them into doing things that serve the agenda of others rather than interests of the person themself. There’s a certain type of personality that invests their emotions heavily in this blue pill delusion, they derive their sense of security from being part of the hive. When someone comes along and declares that the story should be questioned, they feel… Read more »

Tom
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^Correction

I can listen to him without taking offense, and think rationally about what he has to say. The news guy, though. He was so apoplectic he was getting unable to function rationally, and couldn’t contain himself from talking over Ventura. I suspect he ran off the set because he realized he might do something career damaging.

Joe
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Always say less than is necessary.

Yes. The Big Bang Theory is a guilty pleasure of mine. For such a mainstream show it’s surprisingly red pill. Way better than the repulsive Friends. This seems to be the main fault of the main character (it’s not Sheldon, he’s just the fool) Leonard. He’s an everyman beta but sabotages his own life by over-analyzing, over-explaining and trying to conform to societal expectations when he should trust his gut. He uses 5 sentences when 1 or 2 would do.

IAS
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Rollo mentioned being familiar with (video)gaming culture (in the context of Gamer Gate). This post about “cheaters” made me think of the analogy with some players of competitive games that impose artificial external rules – the “scrubs” (to be compared with Blue pill “Chumps”). David Sirlin has written a book about “Playing to Win”. The book is available for free here: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw But at the moment Sirlin’s website appears to be down, here is an alternate link: http://the-confederation.net/_fr/11/playingtowin.pdf I think it is worth skimming the book, even if reading only chapter 4, “Introducing the scrub”. The comparison with the videogame… Read more »

jerroldcc
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“When a Red Pill aware man verbalizes his truths, his observations, and his perspectives it’s often an affront to that Blue Pill guy’s ego-investments. And these are investments that he’s likely unaware he even holds, and he presumes everyone else holds too.” The defensiveness is far, far worse when you’re lucky enough to somehow jag a red-pill as f*ck girlfriend. She literally told me I wasn’t man enough, I was turning her off, she wasn’t attracted to me. No in a vindictive way either. Just facts. Dating this red-pill woman has been the hardest year I’ve ever had with a… Read more »

graphire78
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“I am tomorrow, or some future day, what I establish today. I am today what I established yesterday or some previous day.”

― James Joyce

Megawit
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I think it goes even further: Feminism is almost a socially conditioned ‘filter’ that facilitates women’s hypergamic nature – it serves to separate those men who are naturally inclined to follow the ‘beta’ feminist mindset from those who are just either too redpill (ie. unplugged) or by way of their nature simply too assertive to allow themselves to be swayed by the feminist carousel. Feminism is doing women’s selection FOR THEM. A guy who ‘GETS IT’ automatically stands out like a great big sore thumb, and women see this instantly. You can immediately see women’s behavior change the moment they… Read more »

walawala
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When I explain that I’m banging various girls due to my game knowledge, I do encounter a lot of hostility or disbelief: “They just want you for your money”… “They want xyz” ” You better watch yourself” “They’re all sluts” etc etc I now don’t talk about my red pill knowledge or experiences to guys…at all. Even “naturals” don’t get it. Recently at a party with a guy who I no longer talk about Game with. In walks a girl I had banged the week before…. He starts talking to me about her in very generic terms: “She’s cute…blah blah… Read more »

Joseph Coces
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Most of these guys you spoke to wouldn’t raise an objection to having a strategy for selling something, or negotiating something, like a car or a raise in salary. Yet, to them, everything seems to be wrong if you are not yourself – meaning, as easy to see through as a glass wall – in romantic or sexual endeavors.
That’s indeed hypergamy. Thanks for exposing it.

Pinelero
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I talk to guys indirectly about RP ideas all the time. Sometimes it’s a threat to their perceived ideal of masculinity for others they are glad to find a fellow soul.

The worst I have encountered was a guy that said his son was a feminist. I was really shocked and just blurted out.. why is he a feminist? The fathers response was… to fight the patriarchy. Wow.. real conversation killer. I never met anyone like that before, so I studied him the rest of the night with curiosity.

YaReally
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“In fact, part of his feminine-primary conditioning focuses on the hope that some man will express some ‘sexist’ remark, or express some unapproved thought about women in the hopes that he can rebuke and correct that man. It’s part of Beta Game to look for opportunities to do just this in the hopes that some woman will witness it and find his gender-heroism attractive:” “understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of… Read more »

Driver
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Too funny and always good stuff. The first thing that came to mind when I started reading this one was your writing on The Second Set of Books. It really does show how many men have men programmed in such a subtle way to accept everything in front of them and toss out what should seem “natural” to any man. I find that tossing out little pieces of the Red Pill at a time (to younger men) is better and it seems more accepted versus trying to hit them at once with something big. Granted, I think you have to… Read more »

YaReally
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oh gay apparently you can’t link to specific videos in a youtube playlist lol here’s the two vids I meant to link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJq83IPMxos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOFVKFW72eA That one that got linked is a good example too though. The chick is some porn chick he pulls from the dance floor to isolation. First set of the night, early, and she has a group with a jealous/protective orbiter (big tall jacked dude who comes in at 26:50, another example of dealing with guys, just ignore them, no reason to get reactive and try to aggressively AMOG him) so he figures the logistics will be… Read more »

qsajaq
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I am a right now trying to unplug my friend who is about to get divorce raped. It is amazing how a few years ago I would have empathized with “why can’t she love me for me” and “I just want someone special”. As soon as I heard those words recently, however, I heard something different. I heard a cry from a prisoner who doesn’t see his cell. But dude, a few years ago I truly believed with all my soul that following “the rules” was the best most natural way to have my paradise. My big message to my… Read more »

Seraph
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A few thoughts… To reiterate the double-standard because it’s really important… Women cheat, i.e., use ‘deception’ all the time to enhance their attractiveness, and it works, does it not? How many times have we seen the before and after photos of women who make sizable leaps in HB factor? From makeup, to clothes, to demeanor, women have their own Game, and like men, some practice it WAY better than others. Take a look around you… Compare the women who play up their assets, their femininity, the ones who know what to wear, how to wear it, how to act alluringly,… Read more »

Driver
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@qsajaq Interesting and sad to see the state of affairs, today, with our court system. Many don’t see any problem with the system until they go through it….then they realize just how unequal and fucked men really are in today’s world (there are no women lining up for “equality” in our court system). On a side note: I often tell younger men to make women a side dish, not the main dish. Younger men can put too much effort into trying to find or capture women when all they need to do is focus on their own stuff (i.e. work,… Read more »

YaReally
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1jKkopfBVI Found another good clip of the Predator vision thing. Like Tyler joked in his oldschool Tyler Digest stuff about stealing girls with high buying temperature, it’s basically “follow the shiny object girls, over here, follow it!!” lol This black dude approaches pretty alpha, stepping into this guy’s set trying to take the girls. Dude looks good and flat out brags that he’s a basketball player and makes more money than the white dude (LITERALLY says it out loud qualifying himself to the girls at 2:35 trying to win their interest…look how try-hard qualifying low-value it comes off when you… Read more »

YaReally
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And last but not least, here’s a recent example of why we prefer to just avoid dealing with aggressive AMOGs in general (like Max did) even if it means being “humiliated” by not keeping our street cred in front of a bunch of random strangers who won’t remember us from a hole in the wall: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/harrow-school-boy-died-from-single-punch-after-telling-club-promoter-youll-work-for-me-one-day-a6991941.html Just not worth the risk lol Neither party in that news story needed their lives to go to shit, but they did because two guys were trying to act tough over something trivial. Having social calibration and a detachment from your ego goes a… Read more »

Agent P
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As I always tell my kids, “You cannot cheat in a game where there are no rules”.

LeeLee
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I’m always interested in what women’s magazines are saying because I feel like that’s where cultural change is introduced and feminism is advanced. I also was highly skeptical of everything you wrote about open hypergamy until I started paying closer attention to women’s magazines at doctor’s offices or the nail salon… then I realized they’re selling it harder than a mormon missionary. Anyways, what I remember about girl teen magazines is that they are all about how to be the person that other people want you to be. Which, to feminists probably looks like a problem, but I think it… Read more »

Opus
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Ya Really needs to start his own blog! I think that one of the reasons men are advised to ‘just be themselves’ is that their various attempts to seduce women by adopting persona other than themselves are usually doomed to failure. Being Yourself often translates down to ‘not giving a damn’ what the woman thinks, and indeed men notice that when for some reason they are genuinely indifferent, women seem to come running. It is perhaps a case of schadenfreude that last Friday night a friend of mine was telling me that I was always too cynical about women and… Read more »

fleezer
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““You cannot cheat in a game where there are no rules”.”

Calvinball.

Cesare
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Actually I think ‘James’ first mistake is his tacit assumption about women in general. That they are even remotely like us and are independent thinkers, since how else would they chose ‘the man of their dreams?’. They take the shape of their container. The larger and louder the container the worse the result, but the shape of their ambient female herd/doe group is what you get.

Opus
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I have just had a look at the article that Ya Really links above and as so often with newspapers it leaves more questions than answers, but I think it worth making a couple of observations: firstly, the deceased who had just left or was just about to leave school (aged eighteen) was a student at Harrow School a highly expensive fee-paying school generally regarded as being along with Eton the top school in England indeed the whole of Great Britain, and thus the deceased’s jibe that one day his attacker Tribicatti a fellow Briton working as a club promoter… Read more »

IAS
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@Agent P: precisely. Anyone thinking others are cheating (like “women cheat”) is failing to understand that are very, very few real rules. Real rules actually can not be cheated, examples would be fundamental laws of Physics – note that even those could be broken inside the Matrix.

The fake rules are only rules to those that believe in them (Blue Pill), they aren’t really a part of the “Matrix” and those in the know (Naturals or Red Pill) can break them, not suffer negative consequences, and indeed be rewarded for it.

IAS
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@YaReally: I actually really liked watching the Powerpuff girls. My favorite is Buttercup, which I’ll cold read is your favorite as well.

walawala
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@YaReally Great videos and analysis. On the spiking the Buying Temperature and frying her circuits. Krauser’s model talks about “Sexual spikes” where you’re escalating, then injecting comfort, then again another sexual spike, then comfort until you can bounce her. This works for me very well. It’s the reason why I’ve negged (sexual spike) then pulled back or started some comfort routine…then sexual spike (can be a neg) then suggest we go for a drink. While having a drink, then escalate or fry her circuits. I got blown out the first time I bounced a cute girl I was gaming. After… Read more »

fleezer
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“and any man who changes that for whatever reason must necessarily be “cheating”.” when a girl goes away for the summer and then comes back “hot”, that’s not cheating. that’s just time revealing her genetics. no one complains that she’s hot now because a woman is her body/looks and despite all the claims of “cheating” through makeup, clothing, etc. we all know a true natural hottie (hip waist ratio, symmetry, big wide set eyes, thick hair, soft skin… stuff that can’t be faked when she’s skinny dipping in daylight) it’s not the same for guys. men aren’t just their bodies… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
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“basketball player” was too awkward (plus can’t even lie without being obvious) and doesn’t get that coming out a saying something like that or even if somebody asks what you do and you answer like you were waiting for somebody to ask so you could say it will make women act unimpressed even if they are on a mission.
Women have to find out or you have to make it seem like they found out what you do.

scribblerg
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@All – Apologies for going nuclear last week. This shit is so confronting and overwhelming at times I just folded up like a cheap camera and lashed out here. For me the sarging and approaching has made clear that women find me interesting but not attractive initially for the most part. What I realized is that I’m used to being attractive and having good externals (from years back, admittedly) but now, being confronted with having to actually work the buying temp up and dealing with how they actually see me, well it’s very confronting. Again, it’s ego and probably YaReally… Read more »

peregrinejohn
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YaReally, man, you are the other half of the philosophy Rollo presents us with. The action to go with the thought, and together, an unstoppable yin-yang of life improvement. Always glad you’re here. Pill, Blue Pill conditioning is foundationally about a presumption that all men ought to mutually follow and be accountable to an expected rule set; a rule set that now openly serves feminine-primacy… In other words, a martyr for the concept of honor. When first unplugging, I think a lot of men become angry because they’ve put so much effort into goals and dreams that were based completely… Read more »

Sentient
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Yareally – comment and question… On the Future clip, the longer set, also notice how he transitions into a sexualized DHV story… it’s hard to make out the detail, something about wearing women’s clothes…LOL Guys wonder how you go into a DHV story off an open, this is how.. you just go into it… suspend logic, suspend convention “so check this out” is a good transition… OK here’s a question, on the Shift video, where he picks up the porn actress, I notice that he is keyed into the “rhythm of the night” … he is conscious of the early… Read more »

peregrinejohn
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scribblerg, sorry to hear of your troubles, though I honor your honesty with us. I’m only 5 years behind you and pulling like hell to reconfigure myself, including the my-own-business part you already have going. Hoping for a better card draw, but luck’s a flighty one. Same deal: fears of being the creepy old dude, going Uncle John on people, just no overwhelming reason to fight through it yet – though I probably will have in the next few years unless things can be pulled together. Anyway. This wasn’t to be about me, but to say yeah, you’re not alone.

Sentient
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“Julien walks her away from him and down the street toward the pull (then gives her back to the guy at the very end, he just wanted to demonstrate that going for a stupid number was the wrong move and that the girl was down to be pulled)” Ha ha… I used the technique from this exact video and another one where Julien talks about “wizard talk” to bounce a 25 YO Chinese model in 30 minutes… trust this stuff guys. It works! Time and time again what you see posted works! So – no shit – tonight I am… Read more »

The Question
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Calling it “cheating” is a tacit admission that Game works.

I think that is rather interesting. It goes back to what I’ve long suspected as a former Blue Pill man. I think everyone deep down knows the score and how things really work. It’s whether they can take the truth to its logical conclusion and endure the suffering that is integral to unplugging.

A person’s ability to do unplug is largely determined by the amount of ego-investment they have put into the narrative.

Sentient
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Love that Squatting Casanova clip… so brutally real… Man when you “think” you’re that black dude you feel like all the eyes of the whole place are on you… huge pressure… Yeah some girls take note, but really it’s just in your head. get blown out… move o!. simple as that. He wouldn’t allow himself to let go of his ego and looks much worse standing around like that… Shit sometimes when you get a rejection like that just OPEN any girls that are watching (if any are) just smile laugh and say “they’re lesbians… who knew? These days it’s… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Sentient – Ya, shooting lower makes sense. Easier target, lowers the stakes so I don’t get so worked up. Thx.

scribblerg
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@PeregrineJohn – Thanks. While advice might seem silly coming from me giving how i’m flailing, I do think that one’s progress will be equal to effort. My shit firing up came from doing a lot of approaches. I also have to take seriously the fact that I was a bit of a natural. I actually resist gaming and just fall back on my instincts AND am ego invested in all those ways of being. YaReally has said that it’s even harder for guys like me than some incel in a way as I have these “reference experiences” that worked a… Read more »

YaReally
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@scribblerg “Again, it’s ego and probably YaReally and others find this predictable for a naturalish guy like me.” Yup. That’s why I didn’t comment. The longer your ego holds onto believing that you’re a special snowflake and that your problems are unique and special and us young bucks can’t understand them because we aren’t 73 and didn’t pitch our book to a million editors etc, the longer you’re going to be trapped by your ego convincing you that no one can help you and that the solution to your problems isn’t “shut the fuck up, quit feeling sorry for yourself,… Read more »

fleezer
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“A person’s ability to do unplug is largely determined by the amount of ego-investment they have put into the narrative.” this is true with pick up as well. puas are heavily invested in their narratives but the cracks in their arguments appear again and again and hearing them acknowldege the discrepancies in their “manifestos” is hilarious. and I applaud anyone that can get through more than two minutes of pua julians manifesto. insufferable. two valuable and watchable talks I’ve seen recently: doug mcguff and drew baye 21 convention talks on HIT narrative: all women are the same, there are no… Read more »

scribblerg
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How I’m feelin’.
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SJB
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@Yareally: I don’t know the technical terms for it but your ego is basically rejecting the world and curling up in the fetal position under the bedsheets convincing you it’s your only friend. It knows you better than we do, you trusted it your whole life, you’d be nothing without it.
.
I call this “the FI owes me steak” rut. Perhaps an old-fashion descriptor is: feeling sorry for oneself. Regardless of description it is a periodic affliction that can be broken, as you describe, by making and achieving micro-goals.

thedeti
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Good post, Rollo.

This is really the flip side of “Just Get It”. If he didn’t Just Get It, then he’s a cheater. He’s cheating because he had to learn It, whatever It is.

Women want a man who “just gets it” — he just is masculine, he just is good with women, he just knows who he is and what he wants.

So if he didn’t just get it and he had to learn it from someone else, or something else, if he worked to change himself, then that’s “cheating”.

Gunner Q
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James’ outburst is sort of a double entendre to my ears. On the one hand, a wife must accept her husband for who he is because lifetime marriage can’t work any other way, so he has a point. On the other hand, even pedestalization and the first set of books allow a man to improve his (self-perceived) attractiveness through effort. Perhaps James has accepted the inversion of husband and wife roles to the point of viewing any effort to dominate his wife as rebellion against her. “I refuse to manipulate my spouse” is a great attitude in a wife. Fatal… Read more »

fleezer
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“viewing any effort to dominate his wife as rebellion against her.”

or maybe as rebellion against his entrenched blue pill self.

dominating women is a part of man’s true nature. man’s true nature is red pill, not blue.

The Lone Planet
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Kill the rabid animal.

Sentient
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Yareally – Awesome video of Tyler… Scribblerg.. did you watch it? Did you see 9:22? when the two girls call him creepy? And the girl coming out right behind them he makes out with in 10 seconds? That is some great stuff right there. exact same opener… just moving on to the next one. Ego unblemished… or is it dead? You need to lose the ego investment in the word “natural”… Game = language of seduction. A “natural” is just a guy who grew up knowing some phrases, i.e. he can order off the menu, get a cab, buy a… Read more »

Sentient
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Ahhh.. one last thought perhaps for today… take note in the ABUNDANT video footage today – what stands out?

Hint: They are ALL in venues, AT NIGHT with LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of women around… LOTS of women around…

Find these places and spend time there…

Other night, picking up some food in town for the family, hit the local bar while waiting, grab a beer. 7’ish i think. I look around at the bar, and counted TWENTY FOUR DUDES and TWO WOMEN (each was on a dinner date with a dude)…

You can’t learn much in places like this…

Andy
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@scribblerg

Julian has a good series of vids out about “letting go”. Basically we deal with pain by suppressing it and then when we can’t anymore we explode and tell everyone/someone about it. That doesn’t work either, so we try to escape it (consumerism/alcohol/whatever). Anyway, you might like it. It’s helping me a bit.

Starts with this one:

Andy
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Andy
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Whoops. Actually it starts with this one:

kfg
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kfg
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“Playing to Win”

I have pointed out on a number of occasions that one of the chief differences between men and women is that women play to win.

And as for the Fourth Law, I have gone on over long and shall have to learn to curb my natural loquaciousness.

Sentient
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OK – maybe one last thing re AMONG’s since there was some footage… Last AMOG experience… In a meat market bar, slow night. I’m doing my usual “contrast” game, wearing a cashmere sweater. reliably good for two things, first some bro making a comment and second, women touching it… a subtle way of peacocking. So sure enough, there are two late 30’s cougar types there at the bar (place is well known for this) an empty seat and then a block headed bro. I take the seat. Bro opens me, he is pretty drunk.. he goes “Hey man nice sweater!”,… Read more »

YaReally
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@fleezer “puas are heavily invested in their narratives but the cracks in their arguments appear again and again” oh god lol this should be good. “almost all puas acknowledge the progression in game towards getting the “quality women” after banging hundreds of club sluts. in many of their game models the “quality women” are the apex” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5MwWBsOZ5Y “almost all puas acknowledge the “loves of their lives” that for one reason or another decided to leave them.” Most PUAs still have some Blue Pill fantasies about settling down with the right girl. They need to read TRM really lol They don’t… Read more »

DandyDude
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@IAS Awesome link. I remember back in the old days of the SRK forums, when the Smash crowd wanted to be taken seriously but kept banning everything deemed “unfair” in their games. To traditional fighting game players, you have to play the game as it is and accept the rules that came in the package. When someone cried over an infinite combo, the answer was simple: don’t get caught in it. “But it’s not fair!”. Sure it is, you know that it exists, it’s part of the ruleset, therefore you can prepare accordingly. @YaReally I need to rewatch Revolver. Not… Read more »

kfg
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“they don’t poach high-value targets because those women don’t want to be poached”

High-Value targets can seem hard to poach because they want to be poached the hardest.

FIFY

YaReally
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How Patrice O’Neal handles the white knightey value-signalling shaming guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVuOfl16rCk

Patrice is (was) a walking red pill when it comes to this shit lol

Radium
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“Men’s performance burden means that any comparison of women acceptably presenting themselves as something they aren’t doesn’t compare to men’s need to actually be that something.” Isn’t this the basis for all civilizations? All civilizations require men to perform the dirty, dangerous, and difficult jobs that keep society functioning. These are not jobs that one does to feel self actualized or what ever other nonsense buzz words one uses to describe the types of jobs women want. The vast majority of women are completely oblivious of this fact and of the sacrifices that men make for their families and society.… Read more »

Ang Aamer
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@Rollo “I’ve come to expect that even “Red Pill Women” will default to finding what they think should be an equal parallel in men when an unflattering truth about women is discussed, however in this case the deception that women practice is far more superficial than what is expected of Blue Pill men.” I would say this is the BEST test for betaness out there. If you start to say “women do this bad thing…” And you get immediate denial of woman being bad or, immediate statement of there being a comparison to men being just as bad. This knee-jerk… Read more »

scray
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@fleezer

““almost all puas acknowledge the progression in game towards getting the “quality women” after banging hundreds of club sluts. in many of their game models the “quality women” are the apex””

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k well i have rail fucked several hot ‘quality women’ within like 40 mins of meeting them.

no, didn’t meet them at a club

yes, known far and wide as ‘very good girls.’

Blaximus
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Re Cheating: Yup, woman cheat every single day fellas. That’s why I stress strongly to guys that they not fall for the makeup and heels okey-doke. Calm down, take a deeeeepppp breath and use your eyes and brain. Growing up surrounded by females, you get a real sense for all of the preening that takes place. AWALT. All of that salon work and shopping for the ” cute ” outfit, they are in competition for attention be it male of female. It’s not necessarily that they are going to DO anything with that attention, but they want it none the… Read more »

redlight
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Excellent post

Women will say they “need a man that makes her laugh”. This doesn’t mean she wants a clown or a comedian. It mean she needs a man that can push her buttons, that can “make her” feel emotions, a man with game.

kobayashii1681
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Brilliant…
Reminds of a conversation I had with some chic, she tried slipping this into a convo last week: “You know deep down you’re a good man…”
😁😁😁

When you’re out of/cheating the game they’ll fight back…be ready

theasdgamer
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When accused of cheating, agree and amplify with a breadcrumb. “Sure, I’m cheating by unplugging from the Matrix.”

And if a man persists in white knighting, simply say, “Sure, you’re a girl, so I totally get it that you want men to stay plugged in to the Matrix. That helps girls. Heaven help the girls if the men unplug.”

theasdgamer
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@ YaReally

One day PUAs will be reading Rollo’s books as supplement for long-term successful relationships.

Your opinion about LTRs and $2 will buy a cup of coffee, lol.

quixotic
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@Yareally “That’s also why you can pick up girls who don’t speak your language or without talking or with pure self-amusement etc, if your subcomms are solid, because you’re tapping into the girl’s Predator vision/brain and engaging with it directly. That’s also why you can take over their Reticular Activation System and become their sole focus while everything else gets blocked out in their brain” Dude you nailed it. This is exactly how it went for me when I hooked up with a foreign chick recently. It was all vibe and self-amusement. We made a joke out of the fact… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Girls are still being all handsy with my butt. One cupped a cheek last Sat at my salsa club. I just ignored it and continued to teach her to dance. Another girl was all excited to dance with me–she probably saw the cheekcupping. Both were black. A cute ginger was giving me massive IOI’s but I wasn’t paying attention, lol. I think she’s done this before, so the attraction is ongoing. She must like my dimples. Gawrsh. I danced with a cute drunk blonde and asked her about the guys. They are “just friends.” lol, friendzoned Mrs. Gamer acted up,… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Ya – Yep, yep, yep and sort of…Good points all. Thx.

newlyaloof
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@YaReally, most people who if they saw those mullet dudes in that Max video would think they would be alpha in appearance and should have no problems approaching women. But that’s clearly not the case in an FI-dominated world. I remember growing up and going out and all the dudes could fight and it was like most of the dudes spent almost all of their energy trying to impress other dudes with how tough they were instead of using that energy to get laid. Now, some of them did, but a good bit of them didn’t, and now when I… Read more »

scray
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@OP broader point. i don’t think anyone shames anyone else for deploying strategies or anything. what people HATE is INCOMPETENCE. a dude who takes chicks out on dates to get laid is fine a dude who talks chicks out of their panties is fine but a man in TRANSITION from one to the other IS NOT FINE why? because he is WEAK. society HATES weak men. so any talk of ‘change’ or ‘betterment’ or whatever else sets off that alarm bell. at first you WILL be WORSE OFF, and if you don’t commit to learning, you WILL ALWAYS BE WORSE… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ scrib Man, glad you’re feeling a little more like yourself. I was gonna share some thoughts with you earlier, but it would’ve taken a post 5 times bigger that YaReally to get all of the thoughts I would want to convey, so I’ll post the mini version instead. Age. Meh, fuck it. Many guys I know never saw 30 years old, so I’m happy to be here. The only time I really talk about my age is here in the comments at TRM. Sometimes I think it may be relevant to a point I may be trying to make.… Read more »

Sentient
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Quixotic – Awesome stuff.. “This is my gold star learning experience from this girl.” This is the mindset… as HABD always says… just more data points, there are no failures… if you are learning. Ego is intact. “I had to experience it for myself.” Reading ain’t learning right? Try , fail, adjust, try again, repeat… “Also I passed some epic text shit tests with her lol, she really really doesn’t like my political leanings or that I’m a fan of the 2nd amendment but I steamrolled her hard (told her I don’t care lol and if she has an problem… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Radium ” The old rules where men were respected for providing for their families are long gone. What we have now goes even beyond open hypergamy. We have a system where women are free to trade up while still retaining resources from the ones they left behind. Of course this is also an inherently unstable system that breaks down within a few generations as we have already seen in the inner cities.” What you see in the ” inner cities ” is actually the ” system ” that is in play for the entire nation. Inner cities are always,… Read more »

quixotic
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“Notice the part at 1:47 where he COMPLAINS that no AMOGs come into his set for him to demonstrate on lol This guy is walking around Leicester Square which was NOTORIOUS for aggressive AMOGs competing over girls especially at last call, that’s why it’s called “The PUA Olympics” in the first video. That’s how confident we were with this shit. Go ahead, TRY to come into my set, you’re just giving me the opportunity to raise my value when I come off 1% cooler than you to the girls lol Guys these days cry and whine when other guys come… Read more »

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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Audible & Amazon address the socially acceptable issue:

This video is an ad for the Amazon Kindle/Audible Whispersync for Voice.

The woman in the ad is reading steamy “romance” novel (it’s #1 in romance>fantasy right now) Diana Gabaldon “Outlander”

and she seamlessly switches to the audiobook version which picks up in her ears where her eyes left off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqBJJqkCtn8

It’s effective

Because they’ve put it on Whispersync for Voice,
Audible and Amazon are promoting
The Rational Male audiobook

They’ve reduced the price

from $24.95

to $1.99 today.

IAS
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IAS
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Given that this thread seems to be active on FR front, here is a FR: Remember that I’m married and not looking to cheat, don’t want to get to make outs even. Light kino, like dancing, would be fine. I wear my ring so everyone that cares to look knows I’m married and I mention my wife when it makes sense to. 3 different situations in the same “hobby” location, all with younger girls. I’m practicing a little bit getting more used being comfortable around women, but that is far from the main reason why I am there. 1. There… Read more »

Kdub
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I think the reason blue pillers are told to “just be themselves” is, no surprise, to benefit women. It’s no benefit to the men. Our society is structured around the idea that women acting on their hypergamy shall suffer no consequences as a result. Indoctrinating men to therefore be completely honest about who they are and their intentions means a woman takes no risk in choosing to mate with a particular man. What she sees is what she gets. However, he takes a huge risk because she assumes no such reciprocating obligation. I’ve come to think that in our society,… Read more »

quixotic
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@Sentient “So the time is ripe to bounce her, it’s just 8 PM, so pretty early. I cut the conversation off and ask her if she has had the local drink. She hasn’t, so I TAKE her by the hand and say well come with me we will get one. Hand then goes around waist as we walk out together… leaving chode standing there and with dozens of eyes – including last years 7 – watching the exit. This alone was worth it… LOL” Bahaha fucking epic FR bro! Ahhh that feeling when you are THE SHOW. Massive props. Sometimes… Read more »

Blaximus
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quixotic

” am the same way, i want a girl to WANT to kiss me and put her hands all over me. Its not enough that she lets me fuck her, I want her to WANT TO BE FUCKED by me. That is when you understand seduction…. ”

Key point, always.

Pussy, pussy, pussy. Meh, not they key experience.

Concentrating on ” getting pussy ” is kind of like walking up to a McLaren and concentrating on the tires.

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It’s only a part of the bigger picture. The object of seduction is not just to have a woman ” allow ” access.

quixotic
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@scribblerg You have come a long way man. Keep going. Believe in yourself. We believe in you. And i agree with @sentient. Nothing wrong with a little dumpster diving to shake off the dust. Go make some woman’s night. Make her feel beautiful. She will reward you a 1000 fold and make you feel like a king. Just dont wife her up lol. My buddy who is 30 and handsome is in a rut because his standards are too high. Its important to have standards, of course. But its more important to get some stank on your johnson sooner than… Read more »

quixotic
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@Blaximus “Key point, always. Pussy, pussy, pussy. Meh, not they key experience. Concentrating on ” getting pussy ” is kind of like walking up to a McLaren and concentrating on the tires.” Exactly man. That is why any guy with game would read sentient’s FR and do a fist pump for sentient, proud of him instead of saying “ya ya but did you put in in?” and focus only on the P in V. Sex is def part of the awesome experience, but that moment when your eyes lock, the butterflies, the eye contact that gets deeper and deeper with… Read more »

Sentient
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Quixotic… Great comment at 4:31… Exatcle this that keeps the thrill in thrill of the hunt…

And assholes from Philly… LoL when you grow up and live in NY you cant help but laught at Philly… Sorry philly guys!

J1J2
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“I want a woman to love me for exactly who I am.”

Something like that calls for something like this:

“Without regard for how attractive you are? Which is largely controlled by things under your control?
Have ever loved a woman (in the early days) without regard for how attractive she is?” (Couples celebrating their 50th don’t count.)

rugby11
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rugby11
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stuffinbox
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stuffinbox
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Well boys from where I stand,understanding what makes women tick and using this understanding to get what you want isn’t cheating.This includes all manner of game.The real cheaters are the suckups the blue pill guys that don’t even understand what women really need and change up around the girls to to meet some bullshit ideals,just be yourself?what if yourself isn’t good enough? Better step it up.Get out there and people watch,study who real people are what they do and why they do it. My wife is a good one for showing me respect around the guys,some of the guys think… Read more »

Blaximus
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100 billion neurons. 40 miles of nerves. 60,000 miles of blood vessels.

Give or take.

The possibilities are pretty much endless, given human life span.

That shit blows my mind consistently.

stuffinbox
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@ Rugby

Checked out that book”The Future Of Men” total waste of ink and paper!
Should be named the future of afc’s.

D. Horrenbrand
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To the greater whole of Blue Pill conditioned men the Red Pill is foreign and an affront to that conditioning. In fact, part of his feminine-primary conditioning focuses on the hope that some man will express some ‘sexist’ remark, or express some unapproved thought about women in the hopes that he can rebuke and correct that man. — true. but they never get women respect. they secretly (or not so) desire a person who isn’t like their personal manginas/white knights. They are useful to them, but not in bed. Also, I personally don’t believe that RSD PUA game works. You… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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So thanks again to the guys giving me input last thread re: the day3 flake/daygaming. This is all important stuff, and I’m realizing through these experiences that knowing a lot about game dynamics doesn’t do too much to protect you from rationalizing them away in the moment when you haven’t been burned a few times yet. Like, backing up a few steps the overall dynamic I was striking – and how to fix it – are obvious. But my brain just started fixating on details and rationalizing how this case was different, etc. I’ll do my best to pull this… Read more »

stuffinbox
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LOL A whopper Bass,loosen the drag but don’t let the line get slack remember to keep your tip up and next time don’t forget the net.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Americans love everything codified. It helps gather the herd. Blue pill beliefs can be as strong as any religious belief. I just pray that the FI doesn’t start advocating for men to strap on suicide vests and show up to blow up. I will only try to talk about RP with young guys that happen to ask for/are seeking guidance. I learned long ago not to advise most older men. Example from a couple of months ago: Subject: 58 year old overweight male. Poor health. Brain appears stuck in 1929. Subject currently orbiting 50 something year old broad that resembles… Read more »

stuffinbox
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@ Blaximus

STOP IT MAN.YYou got me rolling in my chair with that one.I could barely read it through the tears from laughing till i sounded like i had copd and my wife came to save me.
To bad it’s true the truth is stranger than fiction,poor bastard.If she only knew where his other warts are he may have a chance.

Blaximus
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@ stuff

It is funny. All of my coworkers laugh themselves silly at this guy. I feel badly for him though because he can do much, much better with the years he has left in life. It’s a waste.

But the Brightside is that when he comes to work with a long gun, I get a 30 second headstart before he opens fire. And 30 seconds is enough.

Muh Daddy didn’t raise no fool.

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