The Rational Male Audio Book


Well, it’s been a long time coming, but I’m proud to announce that the audio version of my first book The Rational Male is now available on Audible, Amazon, and iTunes.

As I mentioned in November, the book was narrated by professional voice talent Sam Botta. Sam has been my shadow for about as long as I’ve had the blog up and has made a great many personal investments on his own to see this book through. In November, I also mentioned Sam’s medical issues and I’m happy to say that I’ve worked out a beneficial royalties arrangement to help him with his exorbitant medical bills. So when you buy the over 14-hour long audio version of The Rational Male you’re also helping Sam.

A lot of readers have asked me why I didn’t have an audio version available from the get go, or why it’s been about two and a half years since I published the first book that I’m now releasing the audio. I had actually considered an audio version when I published in 2013, but I had little idea of how influential and well received the book would be then so I figured I’d give the book a year to allow it to mature.

I’m glad I did now because there’s a lot to digest in The Rational Male, to say the least. I’ve mentioned it before, but I didn’t think I’d be publishing any other book after TRM so I wanted to make it as comprehensive as possible. I’m not an author by trade, but I do enjoy writing both on this blog, essays and now two books.

Exploring Red Pill awareness and spreading the collective experiences of men from all over the world has always been the point of both books – and soon, the third book. So I view this audio version as another means to accessing Red Pill awareness. I was a bit hesitant to do an audio version because I’ve always intended my work to be referenceable and relative to my other essays or stories I use to bolster my points. It’s kind of difficult to deliver the same message, one that’s meant to be well considered, while it’s being read to you and then

I was a bit hesitant to do an audio version because I’ve always intended my work to be referenceable and relative to my other essays or stories I use to bolster my points. And that’s to say nothing about the involved discussion of my commenters on each post. It’s kind of difficult to deliver the same message, one that’s meant to be well considered, while it’s being read to you and then moving on to the next topic of thought.

So it was for that reason I initially delayed the first book’s audio, however, I do feel the book has made a significant impact in Red Pill awareness and the manosphere to the point where I think its accessibility makes it useful.

The other reason was that I was determined to have Sam Botta do the reading after his having done so much for the reach of my work. I won’t belabor his hit-and-run accident – I hope Sam will explain how he’s doing in the comments here – but, suffice to say he was involved in an accident that meant he basically had to relearn how to speak, walk, sleep and do many other things we regularly take for granted.

I wanted him to do the read and his work on the audiobook, he says, was instrumental in his year-long recovery.

So there you have it. I’m glad it’s finally been released into the wild and I’m already getting positive feedback on it. I would hope you’d buy this version of the book with the same intent you bought the physical copy; to share it and discuss the essays with other men (and women) who aren’t (or as) Red Pill aware. Obviously, I’d like others to buy the book as well, but more importantly, I’d like it to be shared and explored, so with that in mind, please, loan it or listen to it with other men you think will benefit from it.

And, just at the end here, yes I do plan to release an audio version of Preventive Medicine soon, but it also suffers from a need for visual aids from the book so I’m brainstorming ways to do this. Also, yes, I am in the beginning stages of compiling and writing the third Rational Male series book, and if you have any thoughts on it, please let me know in the comments.

Thanks all.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

172 comments on “The Rational Male Audio Book

  1. Congratulations !!!!!! I will add it to my library, as I am an Audible subscriber. Continued success. I read everything you write. Or at least try to. Hegelian.

  2. Thank God, finally. Thank you so much Rollo. Please tell Sam I said thank you as well. Hopefully this will finally be able to get through to my brother.

  3. Congrats Rollo!

    (Somewhat self-serving) Book 3 suggestion: TRM for Teens
    – both a parenting guide as well as written for adolescent digestion

    Also, partially in reference to the previous “what’re we gonna do about this FI?” discussion thread, serves as a better way of spreading/transmitting/embedding the ideas into future generations

  4. @RT-Way to hustle and contributing proceeds to your fellow man speaks highly of your character.
    Perhaps a great segway into the next book is more about such qualities. So much has been written regarding the nature of females a shift toward the “High Value Man” (of any age) would be welcome.

  5. Great book full of insightful information on women as well as male exploitation by the fairer sex. Recommended reading.

  6. Rollo, you’re a gift from Heaven! I’m so tired about some recent infighting in Dalrock’s comments, and my RSS reader has failed to give me some of your posts. And recently I accepted that I will probably never unplug my father from the Matrix, despite the success with my younger brother (read TRM vol. 1 last summer; gets it). And having a “not like my father” complex is the last thing I want.

    Well, you have a lot of experience, but you have only second-hand data on raising a son. This is hard. I have 4 kids, genders alternating from my eldest daughter. She’s smart and introverted (like me), and her first younger brother is vivid, and a bit like my wife’s cousins. Easily manipulated emotionally. She recently listens to “The Jungle Book” audiobook, and likes it (red pill!), and the boy listens to “The Six Bullerby Children” audiobook, and likes it!

    Here in Poland, these stories are a compulsory reading in primary school. But Astrid Lindgren is a man-hating broad. As early as 1947 – the FI did not start in 1968. I say to my boy: “hey, but look – the boys there are pictured as bufoonish retards.” – and he says with a smile – “oh yes! they are totally the idiots!”.

    I have listened to it, and it’s generally always covered up in a final “happy end”, when the boys see their bads and everyone is merry.

    That’s not what it looks like among kids – in one story the boys try a lame trick with a “hidden treasure”, and the girls con them – first they play stupid and pretend not to have found the treasure, which they had easily, and they leave a box of sheep shit behind with a message to the boys. Who are then humiliated, and the reader is supposed to have lots of laughs.

    That’s not how girls operate! They don’t outsmart boys. Not until the hormones kick in, when the boys temporarily loose (well, some boys loose it permanently) reason, and team girls decides who gets to pedestalize whom, and who is just a looser. Instead, they run to mommy and accuse. Works every time, and spares them unnecessary strain of their little brains.

    So, my little girl has all the cards stacked to become a sigma-female. Like the one in a programming competition I was at recently. Girls make up about 5% of the contestants, and there’s never more than 1 per 3-person team. But they’re not like the rest of the herd. My female collegue from Marketing just came up to one of them and started:

    “Wow, so you’re programming!”
    “… Yeah. So what?” – rolled her eyes and dismissed her. The tone was saying more like: “F… off, stupid bimbo”. No small-talk ensued. The coder girl was likely debugging something in her head while grabbing some coffee.

    Well, as a programmer, I have nothing against about more such “women in IT”. They’re already there. But there can’t be more. Those who are fit for it, while there’s enough money in it, already are (modulo: plus new graduates minus retirements and maternities).

    I think the road to manhood (i.e. the red pill) is always a lone one. I can’t just walk my son by his hand. I can make him purple pill, so he’ll maybe believe in the burden of performance, but also “true love”. Right now it can only be – “be a good boy. Respect mummy and daddy. Pray and go to church.”. Only after his first experiences with females will the Prodigal Son Parable able to play out between us…

  7. There’s some repeated text in your post, near “while it’s being read to you and then…”.

  8. One last thought, sorry: don’t worry about audiobook perception. You’re probably a visual type (yeah, world class designer), but some people have auditory sensory modality. When I listen to stupid (especially christian) manginas, I download it all and then play them at 1.7x speed (the voice pitch matches their ball-less minds then).

    For material which is logical and of substance, I must stay at the natural speed, but the mental model of the text can still fit into my random-access audio memory. Cuts both ways – if I want to remeber e.g. a complex route directions I need to “say them to myself”, but you can reap the benefits when there’s a serious book available as audio.

    At least some of known MGTOWs seem to be audio guys – I think it can help to become red pill. You remember what women say, and can see the discrepancies. The overt communication is BS. You need to listen more carefully to the hidden, subliminal message 😉

  9. Since this post is just an announcement, I’m going to place this off topic video here. It’s a great explanation of attraction during the phases of a woman’s cycle.

  10. Some thoughts…

    Been pretty quiet on the game front the last 6 weeks or so… Wife has had some chronic injury, nothing serious but painful enough that I’ve had to hang around and do a lot more with the kids and whatnot… Predictably this has led to a huge raft of shit testing, a little more beta than usual, strictly due to circumstances mind you and bam the hamster gets riled up. Interesting to observe, annoying to deal with.

    That said, with being around more and keeping more to myself, my game chops are a bit dulled… was interesting this morning. Tired, grunged out nearly zombie like hitting the coffee spot. See a girl i’ve not seen there before in line near the front of the line. Tall (taller than me in her heels) skinny blond and hot. Not a common sight here in hipster central… I walk past her to get in line, just a casual glance. Here is the interesting part, now my brain is like “whoa dude.. you see her? well what are you going to do? You gonna leave that there?” and I feel, for the first time in a long time a little… flutter… a murmur… a bit of AA… LOL

    I get in the back of the line and she turns around and goes to sit on a stool and wait for her order… and BAM! There it is…

    I take a look at that ass… my my, just like this pic in the jeans with a zipper in the back, heels and white shirt, hair was in a loose bun… Damn that zipper is sooooo sexy, haven’t seen those before. She sits down and looks at me in line, so I hold her gaze until she looks down. I assume a more casual posture in line… do my ordering and walk past her, within 10 inches, to get some water and a napkin, then back past her and sit next to her, locked in against the counter. Leave this a few seconds then slowly turn my head towards her, eye contact… she says something to me about the morning… we get into a little chit chat about how tired I am and dreams and what she is taking to help her sleep and some joking and cutting space and lasering and now she is laughing a bit and telling me were she went to college (recently) and a little vibe is going… and her order is up. she gets it, comes back past to head out, I say “heading out so soon” she says yeah she has to go and that was that…

    Nothing really. was interesting though because a) I kind of forced the open over some flutters and b) damn made me think hard again about taking a mistress and doing some longer game than SNL stuff… Soooo many really hot fun girls out there.

  11. Thank you Rollo and Sam: while traveling by car I rarely listen to the radio–too much BP “love song” propaganda. This audiobook will be a far more engaging alternative.

  12. You know Sentient – that game chops being dulled thing is something I have to contend with *every* 5-6 weeks when I spin up again for the next going out blitz. It really sucks – feels like two steps forward/one step back…

    As for a mistress…presumably security is an issue if she’s in your town? Not sure what your risk/reward tolerance is.

  13. Culum – you are single man, game some girl every day! Keep the vibe going… Like I get you don’t want to do your social circle, but really how small is your town? less than 1k? There must be dozens and dozens of opportunities around you every day.

    On your blitz time coming up try and go everyday in a row and do some day as well as night. If for nothing else just to keep the state going… keep the dopamine flowing in your system.

    On the misty.. yeah the heart wants it and the head (the top head heh) says NFW, not yet!! I could manage it but I couldn’t trust some young girl not to find a way to blow things up…

  14. Congrats on the book, and hope Sam is doing better, he’s had quite the year.

    Since this seems to be the OT data dump post, here’s a fun piece for folks to chew on. This one’s on sperm bank fraud. A “class A” sperm donor who was “used” to “make” some 35 children turns out to be a schizo convict. Hilarity ensues, lawsuits too.

    Now the fun part: yeah this is fraud. But who’s the victim? And what are the damages necessarily? There are genetic transfers of mental illness tendencies, but they don’t necessarily manifest at all as any kind of handicap. So the kids could be fine.

    But they aren’t the class-A Nordic Aryan Mensa Genius with Brad Pitt looks. Like you paid for a purebred Doberman but find out you got sold a mix. Do you measure damages for getting a false kid the same way?

    Just as creepy, who leaked this shit? An email error, they say. Maybe. The point being, gentlemen, there is NO sure safe way to guarantee remaining anonymous forever for doing this. So don’t do it. Someday someone will come a-knockin’ if they think you’ve got bank. It’s “for the child’s welfare”!

    And don’t forget you loser sexist misogynist fucks: this is one of our culturally-approved New Family Forms. That you must celebrate. Or else you’re a shill for the Patriamalarkey. Now get out there and CELEBRATE!

  15. This appears to be one of those rare but wonderful situations where everybody has reason to thank everybody. So, thank y’all.

    Sam, now you need to find a new mountain. Keep up the fight.

  16. Sentient – alternative approach: could you swing a long business trip for a month or so to somewhere like Miami or Vegas (presumably when your wife is better)? Or do one of those Executive MBA courses where they let in everyone who pays and you have the benefit of being in a college environment (I am thinking of doing this and/or the Vegas Immersion Program of RSD at some point).

    As for me, no not 1k people but the town is pretty small – small, tight social circles, same faces everywhere..everyone knows people in common etc. But I take your point – I should be able to do some level of gaming (at least interactions like the one you just described, even if I don’t close)…

  17. 157 deep needle pricks into the muscle in the last 30 minutes –

    NOT acupuncture, that’s surface deep. I.M.S. goes deep into the muscles.

    It’s THIS:

    multiply that by 157…

    and that’s just today.

    Phil Slott does an excellent job of describing the type of injury that I had in his book (and Audible audiobook) “Damage Control: A Brain Injury Survivor Helps You Beat the Odds”

  18. 1-Thank you Rollo & Sam for this long awaited audio version of the book.

    2-Thank you to the many gentlemen who take the time to post insightful comments after each new blog entry.

    3-Thank you for letting me unplug at age 26 after a scripted break up at 25—now age 28.

    4-Thank you on behalf of my brothers who also were in doubt about the Red Pill Truths and finally woke up thanks to the — Great graphs and summarized truths that we see everyday. ( Even outside North America and Western Europe).

    My personal conclusion of “TRP”:

    1 – Live on your own terms and choose FREEDOM.

    2- Get married and live your life solely for your wife and kids.
    (slave away at white collar or blue collar job and be at the mercy of your boss for your livelihood — beta lifestyle)

    3- Make enough money to be able to sustain you and your family without being at the mercy of anyone.You do this by remembering what MBA stands for = Management by absence and by also diversifying your income

    I chose option number 3 — even if it means getting married later on in life.

    God speed to all and stay alpha
    ( Stay smart, stay good and build your small empire)


  19. Why can’t women stay the fuck out of men’s clubs? Who fucking asked women to but into everyone else’s business? What the fuck is wrong with women these days? Women can have their own spaces but men can’t get the fuck rid of women? WOMEN – PLEASE BUTT THE FUCK OUT OF MEN’S LIVES!

    Men want their own clubs! WOMEN – STAY THE FUCK OUT! Women don’t get to ruin everything in men’s lives!

    If 1 in 5 women are raped in college, why aren’t women demanding women-only colleges instead of demanding more and more coed showers and dorms? I’ll tell you why. Women can’t file false accusations and collect the ill-gotten gains of civil suits without proximity to their targets – and to women – everything is about forcing men’s wealth into women’s bank accounts.


    Not only that – but you probably rely on the fact that the threat of false accusations by women means far fewer male teachers and staff in schools.



  20. Lol at ManlyMan..

    Wassamatta for you? Why you so mad?

    Why you type in all caps? Who are you yelling at?

    Are wiminz in your space? The one between your ears?

    Are you in pain? Bad pain?

    Okay, I can help. Step 1) remove your head from your ass. Step 2) have a cold beverage.

    Try that and I bet you’ll feelz much better.

  21. @Blaximus
    @Sun Suck My Dick

    Fuck the two of you. Obviously you’re both castrate loving feminists, hoping to destroy more souls than you already have.

    Real men see straight through your manipulation and brainwashing, herpes ridden cock blockers. How? Experience. Go back to wehuntedthemammoth, CUNTS!

  22. Your troll failed and got pointed out as such because you tried too hard to follow the bitter angry misogynist meme. Next time don’t make it so obvious.

    Don’t feel too bad though. Lack of subtlety is the weakness of most modern trolls.

  23. What’s the fuck is the matter with you, Sun? Men being force fucked from the job market by women’s false accusations? Women fucking men out of college with false accusations over false rape and/or sexual assault? Let’s not even start with the many other ways women and gynocentric ass kissing white knights fuck men over. Men are terrified to be around women.

    What did the far left and far right state openly when affirmative consent was passed in CA – the home of NO FAULT DIVORCE – the law that destroyed countless tens of millions of men’s lives? THAT MEN SHOULD BE TERRIFIED TO HAVE SEX WITH WOMEN! THAT’S WHAT THEY SAID – FUCKTARD!


  24. “Your troll failed and got pointed out as such because you …”

    Who the fuck are you? You bitch ass pussy whipped piece of shit? You’re talking down to a man that has repeated most everything the author of this site has proclaimed?


  25. “Go back to wehuntedthemammoth . . .”

    You lost me here.

    Spetnaz has made some very good videos, but he seems locked in the depressive phase and watching too many of them can get a bit depressing.

    If you’re locked in the anger phase, Messenger Rising is your go to “Women are all evil cunts” video producer.


    You coulda had me here, if it weren’t for that Dave Futrelle thang. That was really uncalled for.

  26. This one time, I actually thought my wife was trying to fuck me into an early grave. She wasn’t though. She was just overly excited.

  27. Congrats Rollo/Sam!

    It’s a lot easier for me to read than listen to things in my situ, so I’m not diving right in. But what I hear so far sounds great.

  28. “Also, yes, I am in the beginning stages of compiling and writing the third Rational Male series book, and if you have any thoughts on it, please let me know in the comments.”

    The first book gave an overview of the whole RM viewpoint. The second talked about the broad view re: women’s actions and how you might best react to them.

    A rational progression would be to talk about how to best react to yourself – that is, how do you develop yourself, find your MPO, become alpha. That way we go from 1) here’s how people work; 2) here’s how women work; 3) here’s how men work.

    At least, that’s where my brain goes.

    Of course, a greater portion of your writing lately has been analyzing social trends from a place of awareness of the FI and its drives. So laying out how society is currently shaped by the FI, and how people are drawn up into it, would probably be the lowest-hanging fruit for you. It would benefit from really thinking about how to construct this concept for someone new to this whole thing – allow it to argue for the perspective even as it’s being explained. Otherwise such a book would risk becoming a relic of the manosphere, read only by people already convinced. The earlier topics have a practical relevance which is clear to everyone, even if they don’t agree with the resulting ideas. A book about social trends doesn’t have the same built-in advantage of clearly trying to make the reader’s life better.

    Doing things that way would take a bit more work of course – you’d have to make a lot of the early portions of the writing from scratch, the parts that establish basic principles – but heck, quality ain’t ever easy.

  29. Culum/Sentient. After a lull am back up to a great vibe. Banged two young hot girls last week. One wants to meet up and shit tested me last night. Here’s the exchange:

    Her: hook up with any new girls tonite?

    Me: always room for one more in my harem

    Her: that’s why you look like a terrorist

    Me: Mustafa Phuq…

    Number closed another hot one last night and kinoed one I’m long gaming.

    It’s more natural and less forced and he results are the girls are responding more receptively.

    One told me she understood if I wanted to bang other girls.

  30. Wala is killing it… Softek take note… You can follow his unplugging at the Yareally Archive.

  31. @Tomasz – Very interesting. I’d never considered how developmental differences play out in terms of Betaizing men. I’m pretty close to my 6 yr old nephew and he’s a Corey Worthington style alpha at this age, as most boys his age are, That is except for the ones with the incredibly feminizing mothers who have already beaten them into submission – you can spot them, they have that dead look in their eyes by 5 yrs old and sit on the sidelines while boys who haven’t been broken run around wildly playing and enjoying themselves. He’s also big for his age and is a bit too physical with other kids so gets lots of grief from all the women in school, his mom and his Dad. It’s odd to watch his Dad do so, as he’s so alpha in some ways but of course is Blue Pilled in lots of ways. I can see how conflicted he is when he comes down on his son for being a normal boy and how halfhearted his remonstrations are.

    But the kid is basically ZFG at this point. Even when he’s being disciplined you can tell he simply doesn’t give a shit and is just waiting it out and playing the game so he can go back to doing what he wants. Now, don’t get me wrong, he needs to learn self-control and better respect for each others but his behavior is totally appropriate for a 6 yr old boy.

    However, I’ve seen all this play out before and I’m under no illusions that he’s going to survive his betaization. He has an older sister, 10 now and I’m watching her ascend to her primacy in the social order. The double standards between her and her brother alone are so obvious, yet are just a given. She’s privileged and he isn’t, period. That’s just how it is.

    I reflect back on watching my daughter doing through adolescence and it was so clear that the shift in power between her and her female peers and the boys was based on intersexual dynamics. Up until that point, boys were taken much more seriously and were less compliant and didn’t roll over and submit to the girls. But by her mid-teens? Boys were powerless pussy beggars, with girls whipping them around their fingers. It’s at this age when she first learned to develop “orbiters” as its very common for girls her age to have lots of male “friends” these days. I knew the score though at some level unconsciously, but there was nothing I could do to change any of it.

    I also watched the insane social dynamics which emerged between her and her teen aged girl social circle. At the time it was very hard to understand why the girls became so competitive and vicious and nasty and wild. Sure, some small amount of it was due to surging hormones and the girls getting used to dealing with their newfound power but there was more going on. And none of that explained the way their mothers were so often involved in their teen daughters madness – even if just as co-conspirators at home, egging their daughters on.

    What I realized reading your comment is that due to the FI, teen girls are getting their first whiff and experience of real power for the first time and in today’s FI dominated society it’s nothing short of amazing for them. Today’s social environment is so permissive of female acting out that there is little donwnside for them running amok and the boys are at their most vulnerable time as they are maturing a bit later than the girls so the girls just run wild lording their sexual upper hand and massive social advantages over the boys. And of course, the entire educational environment is run by women so it’s even more permissive for teen girls and more punitive to the young man who dares act like a normal teen boy.

    The arrogance I began to observe in my teen daughter and her peers at this time was notable but I couldn’t understand why. Now it’s clear – they are grasping their actual power in society for the first time and at a visceral level they know it. And for the hot girls? My daughter is quite pretty a 7ish and very charming and engaging. A very pretty face might make her an 8 for some guys. So she enjoyed being at the top end of the SMP at this point and this played into the arrogance and privileged behavior and attitude tremendously. A pretty teen girl in western society has so much social power and privilege thrust upon her all at once and let’s face it. Who wouldn’t find that intoxicating?

    For the boys, this is the time when they are really pushed back on their heels by the institutions of our society and the girls and I think most men don’t recover, ever. It think adolescence may be when the Blue Pill is imprinted most on boys, as they develop and mature sexually. These early experiences frame how they move forward from there and explain a lot about how boys like my nephew move from being little alpha pups to beaten down beta dogs before they even graduate college.

    In my generation it was a bit different but there were other tools used for betaizing us. In my Irish Catholic upbringing, male sexuality was shamed so overtly and completely, and this put the pedestalization of women on overdrive. I was a dirty dog for wanting what I wanted and the girls were the prize and the little pure angels I was asking to defile themselves. Sex for me and many of my generation was wracked with guilt and conflict in ways that toay’s younger people have never experienced.

    It’s interesting to watch how adaptive our institutions and culture are to the FI and it’s priorities even as the culture changes so dramatically.

    As with many of my “revelations” on my Red Pill journey, I’m sure this is not news to some here. But I haven’t actually seen a good treatment of “Developmental Blue Pilling/FI Effects on Men and Boys”. It’s interesting to see how Betas are not born but made. It also explains why just growing up in this society is so painful for most boys.

    @Rollo – Congrats on the audio release of the book. You will reach a new audience segment with it as many people simply will not read a book today. I continue to be humbled by your example of leadership and how you try to stand up for men, boys, fathers and masculinity. My journey is much more personally focused as the wreckage of a lifetime keeps my hands quite full, and then some. But I can’t tell you how much I respect you and appreciate your ongoing work for all men.

  32. ” . . . many people simply will not read a book today.”

    Particularly boys, who view reading as something girls do. They have been isolated from Kipling, Conrad, London, Burroughs, et al.

    They are, after all, just a bunch of dead white men displaying toxic masculinity in support of the patriarchy.

  33. @KFG – Indeed, try to get male oriented fiction published today. Women dominate the fiction book markets, buying more than 80% of fiction. Men dominate in certain non-fiction categories like history but in general male reading rates are plummeting. I went through this in 2007/8 and came close to getting published but then the financial downturn reduced 2008 new authors published by 90%. Rates of new authors published have never recovered, and are only 50% of what they were pre-2008. They publish existing authors much more now as new authors are really like rolling the dice.

    This is an aspect of my downfall I haven’t gotten into here that was nothing short of soul-crushing. I had a legit agent who’d been chief editor at 2 top publishing houses, who had been involved in publishing thousands of books. He developed me for 2.5 years and he hired an editor from FSG who moonlighted editing me. FSG is perhaps the most prestigious literary publishing imprint in the world. I spent 8+ years writing two books and for the first 7.5 I never let myself seriously consider that I would get published. It was only when my agent told me that he was certain I would get published and we had 3 respectable publishers interested that I let myself believe it.

    And then boom – gone. The worst part? I’d been submitted to 15 top imprints and rejected by 12 initially, and then ultimately by 3 more and can never submit to them again. Then my agent retired, then died. Once you get rejected, you can’t resubmit. People who are outside the writing biz don’t understand how it works. There are a ton of talented people. I can write a very good piece of what’s known as “smart fiction”. I can tell a story. I spent a long time getting mentored and taking courses etc to become good enough at it. But there are thousands and thousands of new authors like me every season, many just as good or better than me. A tiny number get selected. I’d made it through that incredibly selective process, only to have the financial crisis snatch it from me at the last moment. Fyi, anyone tempted to tell me the story of some famous author who got rejected 100 times and then got published can just save their breath. I got rejected plenty and did that kind of effort to get an agent. I know better than most here what it takes and worked my dick off to get to the point I got to – which most authors never do.

    I lost my job 45 days later, and this was while my PTSD was spiking up to ridiculously debilitating levels. In April of 2008, I was being feted at a 2500 buck dinner, awarded 10,000 more options after having a million dollar quarter during hard times. I was an author about to be published. By April of 2009? I’d been unemployed for 5 months, was spending my diminishing savings to keep my daughter in college, living a every expensive life in Manhattan and with zero job prospects. There was literally no hiring in my industry. And I was getting older, 46 that year and even in 2010, when the opps started to open up I found that younger guys were being hired for jobs that just a few years earlier I would have gotten with a snap of my fingers.

    My life went down the shitter so rapidly, it was hard to imagine. While I wasn’t in great physical shape by 2009, in 2006, when I first passed out from PTSD and was hospitalized, I was in the best shape of my life. Running 7 miles, rock climbing – the cardio guys told me I had the cardiovascular system of a young pony. Within 10 lbs of my ideal weight, hot, actress GF.

    Boom – gone. In the matter of a few years. No matter what I did. If anyone who knew me in 2005 was told I would be alienated from my daughter, overweight, not employable and hustling consulting gigs, ravaged by mental illness, broke and living in the woods in NH 10 yrs later? They would have laughed. I found out firsthand just how disposable a man was/is to women in this world, partcularly a middle-aged man though all this. And to society at large.

    This in a way is my problem with the “alpha up dude” vibe of the manosphere. Are all circumstances overcomeable? Fate is fickle, circumstances matter. I hear a lot of cheap Tony Robbinsesque rhetoric here and elsewhere from men here who I’ve run circles around in terms of accomplishment in my life. Many young men telling guys like me what’s what and sounding off like life is a fucking Nike commercial and while I appreciate the optimism – that’s how I pulled myself up by my booststraps from nothing and made something of myself – there are people who do get fucked and no matter what can’t overcome it.

    This is what I’m facing now. Recovered partially from literally crippling CPTSD, an older man who most companies in my business simply won’t hire with an employment gap that is hard to explain. I have been trying to just gut my way through it all, to keep pressing like I did when I was younger but there are limits. My honest gaming has had me see through my delusions – most young women are simply not interested in me as I am today. I’m a bit broken and it comes through. Even older women not so much.

    So yeah, I’m pulling back from here. I’m a bit tired of getting “advice’ from men who I ran circles around when I was their age, who haven’t gained or lost 1/10th of what I have. I don’t want sympathy and in a way I’m very grateful for the pushing here as it has had me move beyond the denial about who I am and where I’m at in life. But I’m struggling mightily. My business is shit right now, and I’m going broke. Everything I work on seems to go sideways and so many doors are closed to me that once were wide open. It’s a gripping, sobering reality which I can’t just overcome by pressing harder. I’m tired. I’ve broken down so many doors in my life, overcome so many obstacles, climbed so many mountains and transformed myself so many times. But when I turn the key and push these days, it just doesn’t get there.

    Now I know I’m going to get dime store positive mental attitude kind of hectoring from some guys here. Perhaps some of you will point to Sam Botta to shame me or post a video of a parapalegic running a marathon. I don’t give a shit – I’m not talking to you guys, I get that is working for you – I used to run seminars teaching young guys like you to have a positive mental attitude. What I have to say to you is try on a little humility. Try getting that you don’t have the answers for everyone. Try getting that you are lucky in some ways and the you too could have events turn against you and have your life crushed by circumstances beyond your control.

    I’m speaking here to the rest of us, guys who’s lives have been wrecked and are struggling. If the manospshere it to just be an echo chamber for social Darwinism. well, it just isn’t that helpful for many men.

    1. Women dominate the fiction book markets, buying more than 80% of fiction.

      Truth. They also write more fiction and /or are published more readily than men by the big publishers.

      If you go to Good Reads or even Amazon by section you’ll see what I mean. I get sent all kinds of promotional shit for being a self-publisher and every month it’s like 2-4 men’s books to 16-18 women’s.

  34. @KFG – Indeed, try to get male oriented fiction published today.

    What does that word, “published” mean anymore?

    HINT: I’m reading Antifragile on an electronic device. I can download a whole world of fiction to it, some directly from the author.

  35. I’m a bit tired of getting “advice’ from men who I ran circles around when I was their age, who haven’t gained or lost 1/10th of what I have. I don’t want sympathy and in a way I’m very grateful for the pushing here as it has had me move beyond the denial about who I am and where I’m at in life. But I’m struggling mightily.
    Perhaps you can ask you favorite barista to splash some humility into your next order: you are in the same place everyone else here is so your running circles doesn’t mean shit.

  36. Ugh, Good Reads.

    My stepdaughter was on good reads talking with her favorite ” authors “. Since she was reading all of the time, and failed out of multiple attempts at getting a degree, I decided to take a look at what it was that had her attention to such a great degree.

    I don’t know if you could call that garbage ” Romance Novel..Novelette..” or whatever, but it was full of S&M/Vampire-Werewolf/50 shits of grey knockoffs and quite a lot of gay stuff. Horrible shit. And tons of it.

  37. S&M/Vampire-Werewolf/50 shits of grey knockoffs

    This is my surprised face.

    Recall that 50 Shades started off as Twilight fanfic…

  38. Women dominate the fiction book markets, buying more than 80% of fiction.

    Just as men dominate a certain niche of the video market…

    Truth. They also write more fiction and /or are published more readily than men by the big publishers.

    The big pubs are running scared because brick and mortar bookstores are not doing well. Probably the rom-porn market is the strongest thing they’ve got, so of course they are always ready to publish another series about Lord Rod, the brooding misunderstood vampire…’cause that’s what sells.

    Meanwhile there are other distribution channels that don’t rely on the brick and mortar stores at all.

  39. KFG “Particularly boys, who view reading as something girls do. They have been isolated from Kipling, Conrad, London, Burroughs, et al”

    If you have a barely teen boy… or even as old as 15, I recommend the Flashman series. Red Pill as fuck, hilarious, some historical balance and will show him that time and chance happen to all… remarkable series.

    Flashman is the anti-hero – a bully, a coward and a cad.. and fails up and up and up at every turn, but always stays true to his nature…

    Blax “I don’t know if you could call that garbage ” Romance Novel..Novelette..””

    Reminds me of my first secretary. Very nice young girl, just out of high school. No college. dumb as bricks but stacked – nature favored her indeed… One day we were chatting and she mentioned she never really read a whole book, and never one she chose. This was met with slack jawed disbelief by me… I encouraged her to pick something up – anything – and have a go.

    A few weeks later she came in my office and thanked me. She had been reading non stop, she was elated, absolutely elated… Like as if I taught her to read and demonstrated the mysteries of the universe to her… She could not put these books down – Harlequin Romance Series… LOL

    Well at least she could read… a start…

    She was one of the first wave Titanic girls… saw it over 12 times in the theaters, so there you go…

  40. Scribblerg –

    Perhaps my favorite CH post, the snippet here I intend to inscribe on something meaningful for my son when he is 18. Perhaps an assault rifle?

    to live as a man is to TAKE what you want. Not to wait for it to be given to you. Because it will never be given. Not to anticipate the empathy of the overseers. Because they will never empathize. Not to expect the coddling of the crowd. Because they will never coddle. Not to assume the wagon circling of kindreds. Because they will never circle for you. You got the short stick, now what? Do you contemplate it and hope for a longer one? No.

    You sharpen it and jab it into the heart of every obstacle that sets itself in your way.

    Just a good reminder that as a man you are completely and utterly alone. Always were always will be, no matter how many friends are around and how many empty champagne bottles…

    You are in a dark mood (or were earlier), but many men have had rough times, many rougher than you… the story isn’t over, the last chapters have not yet been written – how’s that for a touch of irony?

  41. @ Sentient

    ” Well at least she could read… a start…”

    Yeah, I try to look at it from that perspective too.

    I mean, I don’t want to blow out my stepdaughter, because I love her like..a..stepchild, but she had no real interest in anything REAL in life. I gave up trying to motivate her and just told her what I wanted her to do.

    But she suddenly started coming home from work and staring into her iPad for hours every single day. For over a year!!! Wtf???

    So I ask her, she says she reads on Good Reads. ” what are you reading?” she replies ” Sci-Fi/Fantasy “. So I can’t leave it alone. I’ve never seen her voluntarily read anything in her life. So I go on Good Reads. look her up, see some of the stuff she’s reading, and I check some of it out.

    I’m sorry I did because it made me angry at the level of bullshititis.

    One book was about a chick that could turn into some kind of panther or something. She was in love with 2 guys, 1 marine and 1 cowboy type. She was trying to figure out how to bed one of them, when she happened upon them one night…together…fucking each other. Then there was an entire 2 pages of graphic details. I skipped to the end.

    Long, stupid story short, she wound up fucking the guy she decided she didn’t want, turned all panther after he came and ripped out his throat.

    She had read 27 or so of these kind of “books” in about a month.

    One of the ” series ” was called ” Alpha something “, like Alpha Keys and Alpha Returns, shit like that.

    I survived the whole 50 shades thing. Bunch of chicks all sitting around my patio table yapping about the book. I just started referring to them as ” horny girls “, as in ” Hey, you horny girls want a burger?”, or ” Hey, the mosquitos are being a real pain. Hope you horny girls don’t orgasm when you get bitten..”. I’d tell my wife to keep an eye on the ropes in the backyard and don’t let any of these chicks walk out with any.

    Maybe I’ll write a book. Anyone can. Campaign Finance – about a young hooker with a heart of gold, working her way through Congress.

    No worse than what’s already out there. He he he.

  42. “One book was about a chick that could turn into some kind of panther or something. She was in love with 2 guys, 1 marine and 1 cowboy type. She was trying to figure out how to bed one of them, when she happened upon them one night…together…fucking each other. Then there was an entire 2 pages of graphic details. “

    Now YaReally will be along with a 3,000 word reminder on ^_^_^_^ female emotion and intensity… LOL.

    Not that it won’t be welcome mind you… cats not being dogs…

  43. “She had read 27 or so of these kind of “books” in about a month.”

    A smart guy once posted about reading a bunch of standard female “romantic” literature to enhance his story telling and game abilities etc…

    Chick crack…

  44. Blaximus, if you go to a B&N with a coffee shop located near the RomPorn section, you can watch the clientele. It’s not just 20-somethings, there’s a whole legion of the middle aged soccermoms who wander through there as well. It is porn for women, although this seems to surprise a lot of men, especially teh traditional, conservative pedestalizers. Probably because most men do not bother to look into what the women in their lives are actually reading.

    Sure, I know women who don’t read that stuff, or if they do they hide it really well. Perhaps it’s a bit of both – they read The Time Traveller’s Wife where people can see, and Were-panther-girly when alone, perhaps with only one hand holding the book / nook / pad / kindle.

    Note, though, that Time Traveler’s Wife contains at least some mild porn in the first half (I haven’t finished reading it yet – it’s interesting to read a woman writing first-person man; how she thinks a man thinks is most amusing).

    C’mon, red pill men, get real. I commend to everyone’s attention

    What Do Women Want?: Adventures in the Science of Female Desire by Daniel Bergner

    It’s got references to real work done at the brain level, the circulatory leve, etc. on female desire. The female hindbrain is a rather remarkable thing. Every dearie has a dirty girl inside. AWALT, it appears.

  45. The question is, why do women(male feminists too) write / read / love fiction (lies).
    I know why.

    1. I’ve mentioned this before, but I do have a couple of outline drafts I’m considering for doing some “red pill fiction” once I’ve finished the third TRM book.

      At first I started on a whim, sort of a response to all the Blue Pill garbage I constantly see in pop-culture storytelling (gender swap of heroic archetypes), but now I’m thinking they have some real potential for telling a Red Pill message while being entertaining.

      I think there’s definitely an open field for unapologetically spitting in the face of boring, clichéd Blue Pill feminized normalities in storytelling.

      Imagine a plot where women behave like women, with inconsistencies, weakness and self-serving duplicity, and not feminine-primary Strong Independent® caricatures of men with tits.

      Imagine stories where the main male protagonist stares that entitled feminine-primacy in the face and calls it what it is with a Red Pill lens at his disposal. Imagine male characters who aren’t the expected buffoons or in need of feminine correction of their maleness. Those are the stories and characters I want to write.

  46. “Imagine stories where the main male protagonist stares that entitled feminine-primacy in the face and calls it what it is with a Red Pill lens at his disposal. Imagine male characters who aren’t the expected buffoons or in need of feminine correction of their maleness. Those are the stories and characters I want to write.”

    Might like the movie “Sicario”. Has Emily Blunt as the main character, but it isn’t a girl power movie. Actually even has some scenes where they usually do a girl power thing, but in this movie they squash it real quick. Surprised me, but good surprise.

  47. Whats happening in women mind when she decide do live husband just month or two after first child is born?
    1. Does he become totally beta from previous alfa in 9 months (he did not lose his job or gain some large weight or louse large money?

    2. Shouldn’t be normally that she aborted his child if he is some beta dude and she don’t wont hes genes pass by?

    3. Shouldn’t be logical if he is some week man, that she wait year or two, and than after her child grow up a little bit to live him at that moment?

    4 Is it maybe modern today to women just go away with her children like is modern to make 100 selfies in every minute of day?

  48. Hi @scribblerg

    It sounds like your books are pretty cool. Have you thought about going the self-published e-book route?

    Disintermediation of the publishing houses (and blu-pill enforcers) is underway in a big way, and lots of authors who would have been unable to get past the PH gatekeepers are now finding their audiences by online publishing and on-demand printing.

    I mean, shit, one author is making a killing selling dinosaur rape fantasy porn that a publishing house wouldn’t have touched with a 100-foot pole in years gone by.

  49. Off topic but rollo tweeted some spinster dropping thousands just to appear “young” for her time in Coachella. Well, as it turns out, she has a beta provider for her spending:

    Stuff like this makes me realize that these “redpill” dynamics will never change. I mean, why would women change themselves when a sucker is born every minute?

    Sure, you could throw in game but a feminine society will always favor the feminine.

  50. @Scribblerg

    I to have had a tendency to look back at past accomplishments and rest on my laurels.For the most part the young men of today are some 8 to 12 years behind in game and development when compared to where we were 30 years ago,and also show a lack of respect for their elders.
    This lack of respect in itself has become some cause of motivation for me.While I have chosen a different path in life than you I find myself in somewhat the same circumstance as applies to motivation.
    Having repaired thousands of vehicles,hundreds of oil wells,built hundreds of homes,built hundreds of miles of high voltage overhead line,dug tens of miles of fireline,run on hundreds of 911 calls,been awarded an honorary degree in emergency medicine,etc.It is easy to rest on the laurels,but this is counter productive.
    At this point in life I am focusing on finishing the many projects that were started and not completed,this takes time but doesn’t cost much as the materials are there and easily accessible.
    Sometime ago while I had my head down working the world changed and I didn’t know it and now the only option that is feasible is to run my own show as best I can.
    As for the age issue as yet I haven’t met anyone that can keep up with me day in and day out.I am reminded of a 67yo man I used to work with that would cut 12 tanks of fuel through a 70cc saw 5 days a week this was after his Doc told him to sell his garage and get out or die of heart failure.
    And a 76yo man that could out shovel me at 18,these are my heroes,and something to aspire to.
    All the experience we have as older men is not for nothing,it can keep us from repeating past mistakes and direct us in the course of right action.
    That being said I am on a mission to finish up some old projects,clear the wreckage of the past and carry on day to day doing the next right thing.
    Best regards to you.

  51. “I’ve mentioned this before, but I do have a couple of outline drafts I’m considering for doing some “red pill fiction” once I’ve finished the third TRM book.
    Imagine stories where the main male protagonist stares that entitled feminine-primacy in the face and calls it what it is with a Red Pill lens at his disposal. Imagine male characters who aren’t the expected buffoons or in need of feminine correction of their maleness. Those are the stories and characters I want to write.”

    Your thought process reminds me of The fountainhead by Ayn Rand.
    In that book she did the same to socialism.
    The socialism still keeps creeping up more and more, since the Western society has yet to run out of Peters to rob.

    But still The fountainhead is a god-sent inspirational book for most entrepreneurs around the world. Her entire narration of being proud of what an individual produces is surreal.

  52. kfg, Rollo – The Maltese Falcon is one heck of a red pill story. The movie follows the novel / novella scene by scene, even line by line with only one rather unimportant scene left out. Hammett understood women, even though he had his own weak spots (Lillian Hellmann??). That’s the film that made Bogart a star, into a larger than life man called “Bogie”.

    Huston got one heck of a performance out of him, or maybe Bogart had some of his own things in his head as he worked. Look at his eyes in the scene kfg posted, his eyes are hard as marbles a couple of times, in the last 15 sec. his whole face looks like it’s carved out of granite. He’s immovable in his mindset in that moment, his frame is unbreakable.

    The Thin Man is another red pill story, even the lightweight film adaptation shows a ZFG man at work / play; his work is his play, and he plays with his women. William Powell, legend has it, was soused during most of the fliming, for sure he was high in the opening sequence where his character is introduced.

    Yeah, we need some red pill fiction. It exists in the past, in the libraries, but needs to be brought back out, up to date.

  53. @Tom

    I mean, shit, one author is making a killing selling dinosaur rape fantasy porn that a publishing house wouldn’t have touched with a 100-foot pole in years gone by.

    In all fairness, the concept for those is actually hilarious and the covers are absolutely sublime parodies of standard trashy romance novel covers. I’ve never read one for obvious reasons, but their existence makes me laugh every time I think about them.

  54. Returning to the topic of Rollo’s post, are there audio books for dinosaur rape fantasy porn?

  55. I mean, shit, one author is making a killing selling dinosaur rape fantasy porn that a publishing house wouldn’t have touched with a 100-foot pole in years gone by.

    First of all, why did you even link an article by that shitbag Lindy West?

    Second of all, let’s not even pretend that female authors don’t have it much easier in the current market than male authors.


    Flashman is a large man, six feet two inches (1.88 m) tall and close to 13 stone (about 180 pounds or 82 kg). In Flashman and the Tiger, he mentions that one of his grandchildren has black hair and eyes, resembling him in his younger years. His dark colouring frequently enabled him to pass (in disguise) for a Pashtun. He claims only three natural talents: horsemanship, facility with foreign languages, and fornication. He becomes an expert cricket-bowler, but only through hard effort (he needed sporting credit at Rugby School, and feared to play rugby football). He can also display a winning personality when he wants to, and is very skilled at flattering those more important than himself without appearing servile.

    As he admits in the Papers, Flashman is a coward, who will flee from danger if there was any way to do so, and has on some occasions collapsed in funk. He has one great advantage in concealing this weakness: when he is frightened, his face turns red, rather than white, so that observers think he is excited, enraged, or exuberant—as a hero ought to be.

    After his expulsion from Rugby School for drunkenness, the young Flashman looks for an easy life. He has his wealthy father buy him an officer’s commission in the fashionable 11th Regiment of Light Dragoons. The 11th, commanded by Lord Cardigan, later involved in the Charge of the Light Brigade, has just returned from India and are not likely to be posted abroad soon. Flashman throws himself into the social life that the 11th offered and becomes a leading light of Canterbury society. In 1840 the regiment is converted to Hussars with an elegant blue and crimson uniform, which assists Flashman in attracting female attention for the remainder of his military career.[3]

    A duel with another officer over a French courtesan leads to his being temporarily stationed in Paisley, Scotland. There he meets and deflowers Elspeth Morrison, daughter of a wealthy textile manufacturer, whom he has to marry in a “shotgun wedding” under threat of a horsewhipping by her uncle. But marriage to the daughter of a mere businessman forces his transferral from the snobbish 11th Hussars. He is sent to India to make a career in the army of the East India Company. Unfortunately, his language talent and his habit of flattery bring him to the attention of the Governor-General. The Governor does him the (very much unwanted) favour of assigning him as aide to General Elphinstone in Afghanistan. Flashman survives the ensuing debacle by a mixture of sheer luck and unstinting cowardice. He becomes an unwitting hero: the defender of Piper’s Fort, where he is the only surviving white man, and is found by the relieving troops clutching the flag and surrounded by enemy dead. Of course, Flashman had arrived at the Fort by accident, collapsed in terror rather than fighting, been forced to stand and show fight by his subordinate, and is ‘rumbled’ for a complete coward. He had been trying to surrender the colours, not defend them. Happily for him, all inconvenient witnesses had been killed.

    This incident sets the tone for Flashman’s life. [wikipedia]

    Truly great series, and lots of fun to read…

  57. “I didn’t know you wanted to experience the tale of reptilian passion”

    I knew about the dinotrux shows and toys but I didn’t know that dinofux was so popular

  58. Don’t know what ya’ll are gretching about. Sex happens in the reptile brain anyways.

    Deep down, can’t you all feel the pull of dat sweet, giant cloaca?

  59. Big Foot porn:

    At one point, Virginia Wade was bringing in $16,000 to $20,000 a month — enough to make monster porn into a family business, as she employed her husband to lay out the stories, her father to edit the copy, and her mother to sometimes translate the sagas into foreign languages.

    By late 2013, though, Wade’s take from her archive of monster porn had trickled down to about $3,000 a month.

    “I got into erotica because I wanted to make money,” she says. “The irony is that it’s really hard to make money in erotica nowadays.”

  60. “I didn’t know that dinofux was so popular . . .”

    Not only is it popular, it is classified as . . . science fiction, and science fiction has become something that boys think that girls read.

    This short piece actually won a Nebula Award for Best Short Story in science fiction or fantasy:

    And it doesn’t even make the slightest pretence at being SF. It’s just a strange revenge daydream thingy, so I guess that would make it a fantasy, but that isn’t exactly what “fantasy” is supposed to mean in context.

    Women have even ruined the dreams boys have of someday becoming a space pirate or explorer.

  61. “The irony is that it’s really hard to make money in erotica nowadays.”

    Tween girls are busy engaging in their hobby – flooding the Internet with amateur Rule 34.

  62. @culum

    Yeah, I know that Julien stuff you are talking about. I’ve been listening to PIMP, but pretty much same stuff.

    I’ve just been talking mostly girls who are vendors. They’re PAID to talk to you, so the converstaion starts out 50/50. They are actually great people to work on to get started in a day since they give you a lot of leway. The 7.5 kind of caught me off guard since she didn’t really have any interest in me, and not having dealt much with girls like that plus being very tired meant I couldn’t do much. I had a tiny window to make things happen (a few seconds) whereas with the vendors I had much longer (a minute or two).

    But I can see especially now how going for her siblings would have worked really well. Talk to them about how much older sisters suck. Dragging you out to boring places while they yammer on the phone. Jesus. Then they all would be agreeing with me — since its obvious from their body language that they were thinking that. Eventually that would pull the 7.5 in, since she be “Hey, why are are guys talking about me. I dn’t suck.” And now there’s this whole sibling rivaly thing going on.

    In addition to some more canned openers besides cold reading where they are from — which works great, just not so much on white girls — I need to spend a bit more time scouting things out. The 7 brazilian from a couple months ago I actually wasn’t doing THAT well on for the first minute I taked to her, but after I left for a bit, I thought about what to say more and then came back and accused of her of just prentending to be Brazilian when in fact she was a Mexican. Which worked very well.

    Its not really necessary now, but in larger groups I need to do a quick introduction with everyone. Don’t remember what its called, but you just VERY quick breeze through the venue and exchange names with people. That way I can know the lay of the land and plan out how I am going to approach the evening.

    Where that’s relevant to the vendors is that I think from now on I am ging to start to talk to them then break off to take a call or meet a friend. Doesn’t matter, its just BS, but it will give me a chance to plan things out and let my mind warm up a bit. If I’m already in a very social mood, that won’t be necessary, but since I’m usually not warmed up at all when I see girls I like, I think that apporach will be hepful in most cases.

  63. Hem hem. Anyways.


    In the previous thread I mentioned I was gonna try to get a day 3 with a cute social circle girl, and if that didn’t materialize I’d daygame.

    So txed the girl (I’ll call her J) and it didn’t work out, so I went day gaming. Tried a new location and it turned out to be non-ideal – all couples, families, and high schoolers, and not as many people as I expected overall. Scanned around for 30-45 minutes then left since the sun was setting.

    The only viable set was two girls, real cuties really, who were riding those skateboard-like things you need to wiggle your hips to move. I just googled it and they’re called caster boards apparently. I chickened out bc they were something between 16-18 yrs old and the whole jailbait possibility threw me. But just for the sake of getting this in my brain – I immediately realized that I could just bring up the weird mode of transportation, ask questions about it, etc as an open – and then they stopped at the end of a long line to a hot dog stand. So I could have just got in line behind them and started talking, asking if this place was any good bc of the long line, whatever, then figured out how old they were from the convo (I’m flattered by your attention, too bad you are clearly sixteen) then ejected or gone from there depending.

    As it was, got 2 ioi’s from one of them but walked past once they stopped. Arg.

    Anyways, the text convo with social circle girl ‘J’ had me a bit uncertain about what’s going on. So I thought I’d give the gist of that here and see what y’all think.

    Background – opened her randomly at a bar bc I she was in a party there and I recognized some of the people. Ends up she knows a lot of the same people I went to school/church with growing up. We hit it off and I timebridged a day 2, I made that happen and it went well (she was using innuendo and so on) but I failed to escalate. Nonetheless I got a good vibe from her. She was courting kino from me and qualifying herself strongly. I gave her a compliment near the end about how she was making me ‘think about things differently’ (I tend to come across as really smart/hard to change my mind about things) and she was practically giddy. Rocking back and forth giggling, then the spike was strong enough that she had to shit test me – ‘Say ‘thank you,’ Forge!’ I did a classic A&A – did a whole ‘m’lady’ routine and kissed her hand like she had just changed my life – and it worked like a charm.

    Fuck, I shoulda kissed her then too, lol.

    Tried for another meetup last week but it was her birthday and it didn’t work. Seemed like a legit excuse to me. So I tried again this AM.

    Me: I’m going hiking this aft at [park]. You should come. You could use a forest adventure with a dashing stranger.
    J: Stranger, huh? 😉
    J: What time? I’m having wonderful morning relaxing in the sun [it was unseasonably great weather today].

    I thought the asking about time was a good sign. I give a timeframe, she just fixates on taking about sunbathing and I tease her about that – like, I can’t imagine her with a tan (she’s fair-skinned) and girls are like cats, etc, she responds well. But then…

    J: I have to take a raincheck though, Forge….there are a few things I need to do yet today like [she lists some random chores] I’m sorry 🙁 usually I’d just put it off but I have a double shift tomorrow [she does, covering for a co-worker having surgery]….

    Hmm. She’s being both verbose (so it’s not just dismissive) and apologetic, but it still seems like this isn’t a priority. Not like these chores would take her all day. And the medium is the message.

    I just make a joke about how, in these circumstances, I usually just choose to be irresponsible – but that it’s fine so long as she’s sure to work on the tan lines.

    J: haha they [tan lines] are important you know 😉
    J: I wish I could but blah blah apologizes more
    Me: [ignore the refusal, joke about the tan lines] It’s symbiotic you know. Girls soak up the sun, I soak up the girls. That’s what beaches are for.
    J: Mmhm very funny
    Me: That’s what I thought! We have so much in common.

    Just random banter at this point. It’s OK but not going anywhere fast. Girls who are really into me tend to grab at straws to talk about sexual shit a bit more. But she’s not avoiding it either.

    I try a vague escalation.

    Joke about how girls use tan lines as an excuse to send me half-naked pics, fishing for compliments, and that I see through that but don’t mind. Then I say I have to go, leaving on my hike.

    She replies with a longass text. Maybe I should type part of it out verbatim cause it seems like it might have some interesting dynamics in it.

    J: Haha Ohhh Forge…you have so much to learn about quality girls. We aren’t all like that. That’s what tanning salons are for…tanning outside is for the the express purpose of getting tan lines. Some girls however use them for getting rid of them which is not what it was intended for. Lol.
    J: Have a great hike! 🙂

    So a) she’s qualifying herself to me. ‘I’m a quality girl!’ Buuuut b) she’s trying to grab the frame with the whole ‘you have much to learn’ thing, like she’s saying she’s gonna remake the rules for me. c) NAWALT, nothing to see here. d) part of how she’s qualifying herself seems to be distancing herself from sexual things, but she also implies she’s trying to get tan lines and that ‘those are important.’ Bc guys think they’re important. Enticement? Baiting me to learn what turns me on? e) she’s trying to show she’s smarter than other girls. Important bc I’ve noticed from before that she’s trying really hard to keep up with me intellectually, like she thinks it’s important she shows me that she’s smart so I see her as being worthy (and she is fairly bright, so being smart is probably part of her value system). e) overall there’s a lot of reciprocation of effort (she’s texting me at least as many words as I am her) and apology for shit not working out and so on. I’m just wondering if she’s not being overly forward because there’s a mediocre interest level, or because she’s afraid I’ll see her being forward as being a bad thing, like she’s a slut and therefore unworthy (we both grew up in a very sex-shaming subculture, so that’s fairly possible, esp, since I failed to escalate when she tried innuendo before).

    There’s a play going on here I’m not quite grokking. When I’m face-to-face with here she seems to respond very strongly to me, then I go away for a minute or two and it’s suddenly totally platonic. Or vice versa. Maybe she’s fucking with me. Or maybe she’s trying to suppress her attraction cause she sees it as being ‘sinful.’ Or, the thing I keep wondering – is there another prospect she’s juggling and I’m the guy she’s evaluating to see if I make a better ‘plan A?’ That’s actually fairly consistent with what’s happening. So is the possibility that she wants sex in a bad way from me, but in her head that inevitably means relationship due to conservative upbringing/peers, and she’s not sure if she wants that.

    Dunno. Feedback welcome.

    It is a welcome change to be going through this shit without any real trace of oneitis though. Like, I think she’s COOL, I LIKE her, but it’s not a necessitous thing. I’m writing all this out not bc I NEED TO HAVE THIS ONE SPECIAL GIRL IN ALL THE UNIVERSE but bc I want to understand these dynamics better for future reference, and bc I like this girl and I think she likes me and it’d be stupid if nothing came of that just bc I misunderstood some random thing.

  64. kfg
    Women have even ruined the dreams boys have of someday becoming a space pirate or explorer.

    “Women ruin everything”

  65. @kfg

    “Not only is it popular, it is classified as . . . science fiction, and science fiction has become something that boys think that girls read.”

    I haven’t trusted the classifications books have since I discovered that the library had a single category for sci-fi/fantasy.

    ‘Genre fiction.’ That’s the only thing that ties the two together, and that concept is some ivory-tower ‘not true literature’ bullshit. It’s irrelevant for the reader. The reader looking for good sci-fi is in a totally different place than the reader looking for good fantasy. They do utterly different things.

    Neither of those things are ‘get teenage pussys wet.’ Fuckin’ Twilight. The vampires are just window dressing. Erotica with vampires is still erotica.

    Like how Star Wars is called ‘science fiction’ bc its setting is in space, even though it’s a high fantasy that just so happens to have a high-technology setting. Space wizard finds his true potential and challenges the dark lord space wizard. Good shit but it ain’t sci-fi.

    I suppose a lot of this shit is why Vox Popoli started the ‘Rabid puppies’ movement. Too bad everything I read from Castalia is somewhere between decent and somewhat bad….

    But as you note: “Tween girls are busy engaging in their hobby – flooding the Internet with amateur Rule 34.”

    And it’s not just that. The arts in general are flooded by amateurs. Amateur artists who get paid nothing for their work, yet are better than the professional artists of a century ago, flood DeviantArt with their digital paintings. We have so much prosperity now that some jackass dishwasher at the local burger joint has enough disposable income to buy a computer and tablet and devote his days to perfecting the art of painting photorealistic Japanese schoolgirl tits while he pays others to grow and prepare his food and maintain his apartment.

    And we still talk about a post-scarcity society as though it were a hypothetical. It’s not, really. The only thing that’s really scarce is status, because not everyone can be high status. Particularly in a society where social media allows us to compare ourselves with the elite of 300 million rather than the elite of a few hundred.

    I’m not even down on this circumstance, lol. It’s just really fucking surreal sometimes. The real disadvantage so far as the arts are concerned is that there is no longer a strong ‘professionalism’ filter. When you read some random e-book it could be the work of a competent craftsman or the work of some random mediocrity, and without the middlemen of the publishers to do the filtering for us….


  66. @Forge & @KFG – interesting article. If you’re interested in these subjects: the Foundation series (one of my all time top favourites – be sure to read in *publication* order, not story chronology order – basically the stuff he wrote in the 1950s is a million times better than the 1980s prequels/sequels) is Asimov’s fictionalized reimagining of Gibbons’ Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire.

    But there are other (more nuanced) takes on the vigorousness/decline of civilizations than that blog post. In particular see Arnold Toynbee’s multi-volume A Study of History which looks at this in detail (I must confess I haven’t read the whole thing myself but I have seen it referred/summarized in many other places) – the stuff about the natural cycles of all civilizations and how they predictably move from expansion to stability to decline is very interesting…that blog post hits some similar points but it could do with a lot more nuance.

  67. Forge

    “There’s a play going on here I’m not quite grokking.”

    When I’m face-to-face with here she seems to respond very strongly to me, then I go away for a minute or two and it’s suddenly totally platonic.”

    Yeah – you aren’t escalating with her in person, so your back ending yourself into the friend zone… just doing it with a fun flirty vibe, but headed to FZ all the same…

    ” is there another prospect she’s juggling and I’m the guy she’s evaluating to see if I make a better ‘plan A?’ That’s actually fairly consistent with what’s happening. ”

    A guy? Probably a half dozen guys, all doing the same FZ routines…

    “So is the possibility that she wants sex in a bad way from me, but in her head that inevitably means relationship due to conservative upbringing/peers, and she’s not sure if she wants that.”

    In her head? That’s in your head. escalate and fuck her if you want to… Don’t go putting carts before horses and make up her rationalizations, won’t matter anyway because when she changes her mind she will LOL… She wants sex, she is attracted. What WILL you do?

    “I like this girl and I think she likes me and it’d be stupid if nothing came of that just bc I misunderstood some random thing.”

    Get yeah hands upon her… take it from there.

    “Seemed like a legit excuse to me.” Nah… if she REALLY wanted you she would arrange things to happen some how… just a symptom of sliding into the FZ. I always think now with any thoughts of “well that seems true” to just kill that thinking totally, because when it is ON it is ON and no stopping it… the rest just means you haven’t done enough.

    This here “J: Haha Ohhh Forge…you have so much to learn about quality girls. We aren’t all like that”

    I wouldn’t say that is qualifying TO you, that her qualifying herself to herself and denigrating your other girls… The strongest qualification I’ve heard was “I have a really tight pussy” when I declined to take a woman to my room… There is the difference.

    BTW this was a great opportunity to run a jealousy plot and also use the “chicken” game to have her send you a pic… you already mentioned other girls sending pics and would be easy to say “yeah, I know your probably a bit self conscious… would be good to see a before and after” or something challenging her to send you a pic…

    You can get this, let her reopen you, then set up a night meet then escalate…

  68. @KFG

    Thanks .good read.
    If you take the 5th 6th and 7th paragraphs and substitute he,him and his,with she,her and hers,it resembles a femcentric society.
    Am I wrong?

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