The Rational Male Audio Book

TRM_Audible_Cover

Well, it’s been a long time coming, but I’m proud to announce that the audio version of my first book The Rational Male is now available on Audible, Amazon, and iTunes.

As I mentioned in November, the book was narrated by professional voice talent Sam Botta. Sam has been my shadow for about as long as I’ve had the blog up and has made a great many personal investments on his own to see this book through. In November, I also mentioned Sam’s medical issues and I’m happy to say that I’ve worked out a beneficial royalties arrangement to help him with his exorbitant medical bills. So when you buy the over 14-hour long audio version of The Rational Male you’re also helping Sam.

A lot of readers have asked me why I didn’t have an audio version available from the get go, or why it’s been about two and a half years since I published the first book that I’m now releasing the audio. I had actually considered an audio version when I published in 2013, but I had little idea of how influential and well received the book would be then so I figured I’d give the book a year to allow it to mature.

I’m glad I did now because there’s a lot to digest in The Rational Male, to say the least. I’ve mentioned it before, but I didn’t think I’d be publishing any other book after TRM so I wanted to make it as comprehensive as possible. I’m not an author by trade, but I do enjoy writing both on this blog, essays and now two books.

Exploring Red Pill awareness and spreading the collective experiences of men from all over the world has always been the point of both books – and soon, the third book. So I view this audio version as another means to accessing Red Pill awareness. I was a bit hesitant to do an audio version because I’ve always intended my work to be referenceable and relative to my other essays or stories I use to bolster my points. It’s kind of difficult to deliver the same message, one that’s meant to be well considered, while it’s being read to you and then

I was a bit hesitant to do an audio version because I’ve always intended my work to be referenceable and relative to my other essays or stories I use to bolster my points. And that’s to say nothing about the involved discussion of my commenters on each post. It’s kind of difficult to deliver the same message, one that’s meant to be well considered, while it’s being read to you and then moving on to the next topic of thought.

So it was for that reason I initially delayed the first book’s audio, however, I do feel the book has made a significant impact in Red Pill awareness and the manosphere to the point where I think its accessibility makes it useful.

The other reason was that I was determined to have Sam Botta do the reading after his having done so much for the reach of my work. I won’t belabor his hit-and-run accident – I hope Sam will explain how he’s doing in the comments here – but, suffice to say he was involved in an accident that meant he basically had to relearn how to speak, walk, sleep and do many other things we regularly take for granted.

I wanted him to do the read and his work on the audiobook, he says, was instrumental in his year-long recovery.

So there you have it. I’m glad it’s finally been released into the wild and I’m already getting positive feedback on it. I would hope you’d buy this version of the book with the same intent you bought the physical copy; to share it and discuss the essays with other men (and women) who aren’t (or as) Red Pill aware. Obviously, I’d like others to buy the book as well, but more importantly, I’d like it to be shared and explored, so with that in mind, please, loan it or listen to it with other men you think will benefit from it.

And, just at the end here, yes I do plan to release an audio version of Preventive Medicine soon, but it also suffers from a need for visual aids from the book so I’m brainstorming ways to do this. Also, yes, I am in the beginning stages of compiling and writing the third Rational Male series book, and if you have any thoughts on it, please let me know in the comments.

Thanks all.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

172 comments on “The Rational Male Audio Book

  1. This coin is being promoted as the currency today.Decadence brought on the rise of feminism,my suggestion is that the feminist is the new barbarian.

  2. “I think there’s definitely an open field for unapologetically spitting in the face of boring, clichéd Blue Pill feminized normalities in storytelling.

    Imagine a plot where women behave like women, with inconsistencies, weakness and self-serving duplicity, and not feminine-primary Strong Independent® caricatures of men with tits.

    Imagine stories where the main male protagonist stares that entitled feminine-primacy in the face and calls it what it is with a Red Pill lens at his disposal. Imagine male characters who aren’t the expected buffoons or in need of feminine correction of their maleness. Those are the stories and characters I want to write.”

    Do it.

  3. For instance;

    “The barbaric civilization is purely crude.It runs on kinship.It is pre-rational and its guiding ethos is self esteem often misspelled as honor.It has no notion of enduring facts or objective reasoning.It is incapable of recognizing inconsistencies in its code because it is whatever it feels at a given time.”
    I have taken the liberty of replacing he,him and his with she,her and hers in this next bit.
    “The barbarian has no morals.She obeys tribal codes that she does not understand but accepts.Fairness exists only relative to her own interests.Empathy is foreign to her.She holds life cheaply and kills casualy.She loathes outsiders and obeys no universal laws.Her tribe is ruled by hierarchies which gain their position through brutality and trickery.And she assumes the world works in the same way.

    She cannot and will not interact with a more advanced civilization on any terms other than these.Cunning barbarians may learn the languages of more advanced civilizations and even ape their values for their own purposes,but they never adopt them.When a barbarian speaks of democracy,she means power.When she talks of religion she means the worship of her own power.When she prattles of morality,she does not mean universal laws,but anything that impinges on her power.

    To the barbarian,all values are reducible to power.They are her gods,her religion and her laws.”

  4. “The Wall at 30 is now the Wall at 40.”

    I get the impression this is the case in places with especially good looking women and especially beta dudes, like Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. I haven’t really looked at the data but just from stuff I’ve read here and there online, it seems like the women don’t even worry about marriage or children there until after 35 instead of starting around 28 here in the US. The dudes there are beta enough to just accept that they won’t even get the last year or two of their wife’s beautiful years.

  5. @rollo

    “I think there’s definitely an open field for unapologetically spitting in the face of boring, clichéd Blue Pill feminized normalities in storytelling.

    Imagine a plot where women behave like women, with inconsistencies, weakness and self-serving duplicity, and not feminine-primary Strong Independent® caricatures of men with tits.

    Imagine stories where the main male protagonist stares that entitled feminine-primacy in the face and calls it what it is with a Red Pill lens at his disposal. Imagine male characters who aren’t the expected buffoons or in need of feminine correction of their maleness. Those are the stories and characters I want to write.”

    I can imagine such a thing.

    It’s called history…..

  6. On the theme of red pill media; I’ve always loved old Westerns. They are unapologetically masculine. Strong, stoic men face harsh conditions, with only themselves to rely on, and the women are generally just eye candy sideshows.

    Two of my favourites that spring to mind are Rio Bravo and Once Upon a Time in the West. Both have men who see through womens bullshit and attempts at emotional manipulation (eg crying), and the women love them for it.

    Red pill media is everywhere, you generally just have to go back a few years to find it.

    PS Angie Dickinson is smoking hot in Rio Bravo 🙂

  7. @Forge

    And it’s not just that. The arts in general are flooded by amateurs. Amateur artists who get paid nothing for their work, yet are better than the professional artists of a century ago, flood DeviantArt with their digital paintings. We have so much prosperity now that some jackass dishwasher at the local burger joint has enough disposable income to buy a computer and tablet and devote his days to perfecting the art of painting photorealistic Japanese schoolgirl tits while he pays others to grow and prepare his food and maintain his apartment.

    I’ve been reading Robert Greene’s Mastery lately and he directly addresses this. And it’s not just the arts; in virtually every aspect that you could consider applicable to Mastery there are literally more resources available to master a particular art or science, even sports than at any other time in history, yet the human condition is to take all that for granted and to be prone to indolent lethargy.

    I can go on YouTube and find 10 y.o. kids playing guitar solos from 80’s metal guitar virtuosos because they have software that will allow them to slow the song down and still keep the music in key, or they have so many resources to learn those breaks from tablature or online teachers. I see kids play Neil Peart drum lines from the most difficult songs that very few people from my generation could master.

    My buddy Ray is essentially renovating his home from the education he gets about each phase from the internet.

    We live in an age where the resources to mastery have never been more accessible, but we also casually dismiss the disciplines needed to attain true mastery.

  8. This dismissal has been a running joke in the building industry for years.
    “nice job rolling those trusses” “thanks i watched the video last night”

  9. @Rollo: we live in an age where the resources to mastery of being a Rational Male are more accessible. Even in audio book format!

  10. “True. Game is something that is far more master-able, yet it’s always men clinging to the old order Beta conditioning that paralyzes them.”

    And inaction… which is why the first element of the Alpha Triad is Dynamic [plus Passionate plus Authentic].

    Lunching with my WK buddy today. He is interested in buying a small manufacturing business. I ask why he doesn’t call the owner up and explore the possibility of a sale..

    Him: “well blah blah blah blah blah paralysis, blah blah blah inaction blah blah blah hopeful thinking blah blah blah blah.”

    Me: “Don’t complicate things, call him and have an initial discussion. You’ll at least feel better. Take you five minutes and you’ll know more where tings stand.”

    He won’t do it. Inaction, most men prefer to live with artificial limitations, in denial or with their dreams rather than deal with reality.

    Game is the same way… so much out there, so many, many chances to practice and so many excuses why not…

  11. It is common now when i go to a jobsite with my boom truck to set beams,they and all the other materials are misplaced causing an extra hour of work for redistribution.I can’t complain,but it is quite obvious the job manager lacks the discipline of having ever carried any substantial amount of lumber,or even the basic knowledge of the process of what gets done first.It appears to be rude on his part causing so much unnecessary work and expense,it may just be a lack of discipline and experience.

  12. @Forge

    Hem hem. Anyways.

    FR!”

    props on the FR…here are some comments and [comments]…lol

    In the previous thread I mentioned I was gonna try to get a day 3 with a cute social circle girl, and if that didn’t materialize I’d daygame.

    that’s a great plan…

    So txed the girl (I’ll call her J) and it didn’t work out, [depending on the details of this, you should maybe go dark] so I went day gaming. Tried a new location and it turned out to be non-ideal – all couples, families, and high schoolers, and not as many people as I expected overall. Scanned around for 30-45 minutes then left since the sun was setting.

    props on getting in-field…

    The only viable set was two girls, real cuties really, who were riding those skateboard-like things you need to wiggle your hips to move. I just googled it and they’re called caster boards apparently. I chickened out bc they were something between 16-18 yrs old and the whole jailbait possibility threw me.

    18 yo is legal (=AOC)…as far as i know…lol…and depending on your state, might even be lower…lol… but that’s just the FI pushing on you to go after an ‘age-appropriate’ girl…lol… you know, those epiphany phase girls changing lanes…lol.

    AND another reason to approach = those girls might have hot older sisters… who they just happened to be meeting later. hmmm, a ‘socially proofed’ running start on a hot 21yo… hooow, oh hooow, could you possibly have set THAT up?…lol (hint = game the young girls anyway…lol) (note – this seems to be your pattern on letting the FI push on you = YOU decide that there is NO possibility of success, so ‘why even try’…)

    But just for the sake of getting this in my brain – I immediately realized that I could just bring up the weird mode of transportation, ask questions about it, etc as an open – and then they stopped at the end of a long line to a hot dog stand.

    good impulse…the first step to taking action is recognizing the possibilities available…

    So I could have just got in line behind them and started talking, asking if this place was any good bc of the long line, whatever, then figured out how old they were from the convo (I’m flattered by your attention, too bad you are clearly sixteen [should exaggerate (amplify) more = ’12’]) then ejected or gone from there depending.

    again, good impulse…

    As it was, got 2 ioi’s from one of them [one more and you could have kissed her…lol] but walked past once they stopped. Arg.

    lol… just ‘talking’ to young girls isn’t against the law…yet anyway…lol…but breaking that ‘probably in-high-school’ mentality might take some work…but recognize it for the FI in play (shame for even ‘thinking’ of them sexually)…and that’s really IS the only way to meet a hot 18yo…lol…

    Anyways, the text convo with social circle girl ‘J’ had me a bit uncertain about what’s going on. So I thought I’d give the gist of that here and see what y’all think.

    Background – opened her randomly at a bar bc I she was in a party there and I recognized some of the people. Ends up she knows a lot of the same people I went to school/church with growing up. We hit it off and I timebridged a day 2, I made that happen and it went well (she was using innuendo [can you at least spot these windows of opportunity to touch her, yet (even if you didn’t follow through)?…or at least that she WANTS the D = she WANTS you to escalate…] and so on) but I failed to escalate.

    a day 2… with NO escalation = FZ in sight…lol… if she was ‘innuendo’ and you didn’t escalate, you let her down…

    Nonetheless I got a good vibe from her. She was courting kino from me and qualifying herself strongly. [game translator says ‘all systems GO!! for bang’…lol] I gave her a compliment near the end about how she was making me ‘think about things differently’ [the implication being that you wanted her as just a friend before?…lol] (I tend to come across as really smart/hard to change my mind about things) [like desperately trying to get into the FZ?…] and she was practically giddy. [her hindbrain = “yeah! bang tonight, baby!…”] Rocking back and forth giggling, then the spike was strong enough that she had to shit test me – ‘Say ‘thank you,’ Forge!’ I did a classic A&A – did a whole ‘m’lady’ routine and kissed her hand like she had just changed my life – and it worked like a charm.

    Fuck, I shoulda kissed her then too, lol.

    yup… but just a couple times… before dragging her off to your place…not kidding… i can see where this is heading (=FZ) and will address this process at the end…

    Tried for another meetup last week but it was her birthday and it didn’t work. Seemed like a legit excuse to me. [maybe…but FZ doesn’t just happen…oh, wait! it does!…lol] So I tried again this AM.

    should have probably waited a week…

    Me: I’m going hiking this aft at [park]. You should come. You could use a forest adventure with a dashing stranger.
    J: Stranger, huh? 😉
    [mild shit test…]
    J: What time? I’m having wonderful morning relaxing in the sun [it was unseasonably great weather today].
    [mild shit test… she really wants you to figure this out…lol]

    I thought the asking about time was a good sign. [it was…if you treated it like a shit test…lol…instead of a ‘logical’ question…bc she SHOULD be willing to completely rearrange her schedule to accommodate an alpha stud like you…since you are generously allowing her the opportunity to even have that chance…see how that MPoO works?…] I give a timeframe, [= beta fail…] she just fixates on taking about sunbathing [probably more mild shit testing, which i’m guessing you also missed…] and I tease her about that [that’s good…] – like, I can’t imagine her with a tan (she’s fair-skinned) and girls are like cats, etc, she responds well. [does she ‘submit’ or ‘banter’…?] But then… [i’m guessing ‘banter’…lol]

    J: I have to take a raincheck though, Forge….there are a few things I need to do yet today like [she lists some random chores] I’m sorry😦 usually I’d just put it off but I have a double shift tomorrow [she does, covering for a co-worker having surgery]…. [= shit test… FZ here you come…lol]

    Hmm. She’s being both verbose (so it’s not just dismissive) and apologetic, but it still seems like this isn’t a priority. Not like these chores would take her all day. And the medium is the message.

    yup…

    I just make a joke about how, in these circumstances, I usually just choose to be irresponsible – but that it’s fine so long as she’s sure to work on the tan lines.

    J: haha they [tan lines] are important you know😉 [=beta bait…]
    J: I wish I could but blah blah apologizes more
    [shit tests…probably]
    Me: [ignore the refusal, joke about the tan lines]
    [was there anything sexualized about that, or was it more bantering?…] It’s symbiotic you know. Girls soak up the sun, I soak up the girls. That’s what beaches are for.

    did you personalize this idea to ‘soaking’ HER?…lol

    J: Mmhm very funny
    Me: That’s what I thought! We have so much in common.

    Just random banter at this point.

    non-sexual banter is the realm of the beta orbiter…

    It’s OK [no, it’s not…you want to bang her, right?…] but not going anywhere fast. [that’s bc YOU didn’t lead her to sex…] Girls who are really into me tend to grab at straws to talk about sexual shit a bit more. [exactly…] But she’s not avoiding it either.

    = that’s HOW girls get their orbiters…lol

    I try a vague escalation.

    those two concepts have no business being in the same thought/idea…lol…

    Joke about how girls use tan lines as an excuse to send me half-naked pics, fishing for compliments, and that I see through that but don’t mind. Then I say I have to go, leaving on my hike.

    that was a good way to end it… a better way, would have been to just tell her to meet you at the park/hike…

    She replies with a longass text. Maybe I should type part of it out verbatim cause it seems like it might have some interesting dynamics in it.

    J: Haha Ohhh Forge…you have so much to learn about quality girls. We aren’t all like that. That’s what tanning salons are for…tanning outside is for the the express purpose of getting tan lines. Some girls however use them for getting rid of them which is not what it was intended for. Lol.
    J: Have a great hike!:-)

    translation = ‘you are not an alpha stud, bc you don’t know that much about ‘quality girls’ (ie sexual girls…)… i’m a quality girl…not like those other ‘tanning bed sluts’ who get rid of tan lines…i want tan lines… but not for you…but only bc you don’t ‘just get it’…

    the question is why would she want tan lines if she wasn’t going to show them to anybody?…lol…

    So a) she’s qualifying herself to me. [that’s not what she’s doing…she’s put you in the FZ…this is just her hamsterizing away her prior attraction…] ‘I’m a quality girl!’ Buuuut b) she’s trying to grab the frame [she already has the frame…she is just solidifying it…] with the whole ‘you have much to learn’ thing, like she’s saying she’s gonna remake the rules for me. [she just applied the rules that were already in play = game…AWALT…lol…] c) NAWALT, nothing to see here. [lol…] d) part of how she’s qualifying herself seems to be distancing herself from sexual things, [now…sure…] but she also implies she’s trying to get tan lines and that ‘those are important.’ Bc guys think they’re important. [see above…] Enticement? Baiting me to learn what turns me on? e) she’s trying to show she’s smarter than other girls. Important bc I’ve noticed from before that she’s trying really hard to keep up with me intellectually, like she thinks it’s important she shows me that she’s smart so I see her as being worthy [of being your BFF?…lol] (and she is fairly bright, so being smart is probably part of her value system) [for her orbiters it should be…for an alpha stud, she would be more concerned about whether she had tan lines that showed while she was on top…lol]. e) overall there’s a lot of reciprocation of effort (she’s texting me at least as many words as I am her) [ and what was the content of those texts?…sexual?…arranging a meeting?…or just fun banter?…] and apology for shit not working out and so on. I’m just wondering if she’s not being overly forward because there’s a mediocre interest level, [now, it’s probably at the orbiter level of interest…] or because she’s afraid I’ll see her being forward as being a bad thing, like she’s a slut and therefore unworthy (we both grew up in a very sex-shaming subculture, so that’s fairly possible, esp, since I failed to escalate when she tried innuendo before). [would that be a logical or emotional analysis?…and which one do girls operate on?…AWALT…]

    There’s a play going on here I’m not quite grokking. When I’m face-to-face with here she seems to respond very strongly to me, then I go away for a minute or two and it’s suddenly totally platonic. Or vice versa. Maybe she’s fucking with me. Or maybe she’s trying to suppress her attraction cause she sees it as being ‘sinful.’ Or, the thing I keep wondering – is there another prospect she’s juggling and I’m the guy she’s evaluating to see if I make a better ‘plan A?’ That’s actually fairly consistent with what’s happening. [occum’s razor says otherwise…lol…’beta orbiter’ is less complicated analysis…] So is the possibility that she wants sex in a bad way from me, [maybe before, but less likely now…] but in her head that inevitably means relationship due to conservative upbringing/peers, and she’s not sure if she wants that.

    again – logical or emotional analysis?…

    Dunno. Feedback welcome.

    It is a welcome change to be going through this shit without any real trace of oneitis though.

    props on that… that’s one step closer to RP interactions with girls…

    Like, I think she’s COOL, I LIKE her, but it’s not a necessitous thing. I’m writing all this out not bc I NEED TO HAVE THIS ONE SPECIAL GIRL IN ALL THE UNIVERSE but bc I want to understand these dynamics better for future reference, and bc I like this girl and I think she likes me and it’d be stupid if nothing came of that just bc I misunderstood some random thing.

    yeah, but it’s still up to you to lead her to have sex…or not…lol…

    here’s that process analysis from above… the whole ‘waiting’ to have sex is the FI in play. as scray points out, you can just kiss girls off opener IOIs… less than 3 seconds in…lol… the longer you go past 2 ‘dates’ without a bang, the greater your chances to be FZd…and it doesn’t matter what the ‘reason’ is… that’s just wired in (=AWALT…even ‘good girls’…) it’s a lot like a wave in surfing…

    you are in the line-up (in-field)…oh, here comes a wave (girl)…[gets ready on his board (approaches/meets girl)]…as the wave approaches, he doesn’t paddle (=do what needs to be done physically to succeed = sexualize/escalate kino)… wave rolls on (girl puts you in FZ)…

    it’s not the wave’s fault (or her fault)…they both WANT to be ridden…lol…it’s not really your fault (bc you just didn’t paddle/escalate kino = your ‘choice’ to get on or not…lol)…it’s just is the way it is…lol

    oh, here comes another wave…

    good luck!

    It is a welcome change to be going through this shit without any real trace of oneitis though. Like, I think she’s COOL, I LIKE her, but it’s not a necessitous thing. I’m writing all this out not bc I NEED TO HAVE THIS ONE SPECIAL GIRL IN ALL THE UNIVERSE but bc I want to understand these dynamics better for future reference, and bc I like this girl and I think she likes me and it’d be stupid if nothing came of that just bc I misunderstood some random thing.

  13. Hey Rollo,

    If you’re looking for a muse for writing some RP fiction, there’s a text book AF/BB and ‘Saving the Best’ story playing out in real time over on MMSL.

    http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/14365/my-man-feels-bad-and-i-want-us-to-get-past-this/p1

    Girl is freaking out because fiance met one of her previous Chads at a party. Chad tells fiance about all the their backdoor adventures within a week of dating. Fiance is livid because, on top of refusing her sexual best, she made him wait 3 months into the relationship for mediocre sex. Also lied about her extensive n-count… apparently some of her encounters were ‘inconsequential’.

    The forum community comments are predictable, between the men & women.

    Pretty educational & entertaining.

  14. @rollo

    “We live in an age where the resources to mastery have never been more accessible, but we also casually dismiss the disciplines needed to attain true mastery.”

    mastery is a moving target.

    what you call mastery is yesterday’s mastery and today’s competence.

    an 80’s metal guitar solo was extreme virtuosity then but now it’s just EXPECTED.

    by the FE the average yokel in 2016 is as IQ-smart as the average physics PhD in 1900.

    the world gets more competitive and better.

    ‘Game is something that is far more master-able, yet it’s always men clinging to the old order Beta conditioning that paralyzes them.’

    it’s clinging to just most of what society tells you. there are so many limiting beliefs — i continue to discover them every day — that get put on you.

  15. ” I can go on YouTube and find 10 y.o. kids playing guitar solos from 80’s metal guitar virtuosos because they have software that will allow them to slow the song down and still keep the music in key, or they have so many resources to learn those breaks from tablature or online teachers. I see kids play Neil Peart drum lines from the most difficult songs that very few people from my generation could master.”

    This right here exactly, has been the most amazing for me. I learned and played with only my eyes and ears and fingers. Every so often Guitar Magazine would have some tips and pointers from the pros, but that was all written. It took hours to figure out songs, and it got easier only after years and years of PRACTICE.

    I love the internet for it’s knowledge giving capacity. If I’d have had this when I was a tike, I would’ve taken over the world.

    I go to youtube all the time for info on everything related to home stuff. I’ve rebuilt both my washer and dryer after watching a few how to vids, and my lawn is crazy!!

    You’re right, the tools for mastery of practically anything is available, but mostly people are like ZFG.

  16. HABD

    Man I’ve been thinking the same analogy about girls and waves and all…

    The variability in waves and the mood in women, the line up, the other guys chasing, the one (or two) that catch it and ride it… the expiration at athe end.. all of this stuff is analogous… But mostly wanted to post these cool drone shots

  17. “You’re right, the tools for mastery of practically anything is available, but . . .”

    . . . a tool is useless unless wielded, and may be worse than useless if wielded incorrectly.

  18. Rollo: Neal Stephenson does red-pill fiction rather well. Check out Cryptonomicon, or even better, Seveneves, which features a female president whose Hamster inadvertently causes the extinction of every human male.

  19. @Sentient at 1:00pm

    those two videos are just like learning game…lol…

    crashing and burning in-field over and over…and over…lol…trying to stretch your limits on bigger and better ‘waves’…then earning enough mastery of game to score that perfect ride all the way to the end…when it finally spits you out of the tube at the end…but on your terms…

    lol…

    good luck!

  20. @Rollo

    Re: “red pill” fiction

    I agree with commenter Shiva in regards to your thought processes in what you want to accomplish being similar to what Ayn Rand did in The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

    If course she really railed on themes of individualism and objectivism, but she used the theme and analogy in The Fountainhead of architecture: ” It provided an appropriate vehicle to solidify her beliefs that the individual is of supreme value, the “fountainhead” of creativity, and that selfishness, properly understood as ethical egoism, is a virtue.”

    That last quote is from Wikipedia re: The Fountainhead

    The point being is that she really went against the grain but had no limits on pushing her themes home. And she subsequently had a large audience over 70 years.

    Even the description in Wikipedia about the pseudo rape of Dominique Francon really pushed the limits of women’s credibility:

    Rand denied that what happened in the scene was actually rape, referring to it as “rape by engraved invitation” because Dominique wanted and “all but invited” the act, citing among other things the conversation after Dominique scratches the marble slab in her bedroom in order to invite Roark to repair it. A true rape, Rand said, would be “a dreadful crime”.Defenders of the novel have agreed with this interpretation. In an essay specifically explaining this scene, Andrew Bernstein wrote that although there is much “confusion” about it, the descriptions in the novel provide “conclusive” evidence that “Dominique feels an overwhelming attraction to Roark” and “desires desperately to sleep with” him.Individualist feminist Wendy McElroy said that while Dominique is “thoroughly taken,” there is nonetheless “clear indication that Dominique not only consented,” but also enjoyed the experience. Both Bernstein and McElroy saw the interpretations of feminists such as Brownmiller as being based in a false understanding of sexuality.

    Keep in mind how Rand structured such “out of social convention” fiction writing back then when you get down to writing fiction.

    Separately a good example of transitioning from non-fiction writing to fiction writing, was the works of Tom Wolfe. His non-fiction read like fiction and his fiction read (like Rand’s as non-fiction), mainly because of his skill at writing.

  21. @habd

    “here’s that process analysis from above… the whole ‘waiting’ to have sex is the FI in play. as scray points out, you can just kiss girls off opener IOIs… less than 3 seconds in…lol… the longer you go past 2 ‘dates’ without a bang, the greater your chances to be FZd…and it doesn’t matter what the ‘reason’ is… that’s just wired in (=AWALT…even ‘good girls’…) it’s a lot like a wave in surfing…”

    affirmative

    but it’s more than just friendzone.

    it’s mainly ‘beta zone’ or ‘bf zone.’ where sex is this thing she GIVES you, rather than something YOU BOTH want and NEED.

    tons of dudes wait 5+ dates for sex from hot chicks. and that’s how it goes….

    like, i can understand if you’re like 17 and she’s a virgin or something…..that’s a little different…..but when you’re in the game — bleh. it just screams inexperience.

    honestly, the more experience you have in all walks of life, the better off you’ll be. failing that, just act like you’ve been there before.

    1) always ask her to hangout at your house first. it’s cool if she doesn’t accept or asks to change venue, you need to ask
    2) get settled in to the day 2 (day 2 is always CHEAP) for about 10-15 minutes before you make some kind of direct IOI; if it’s reciprocated….move her somewhere
    3) failing sex on day 2 — and don’t make out with her unless you are 100% sure of the bang — invite her to your house on day 3. if she refuses, drop her.

    thats more or less my system.

    girls can sense that presence of a system.

    also….altho i hated it at first….my go to first kiss line is mystery’s: do you want to kiss me?

    fucking genius.
    perfect.
    a miracle of optimal game.

  22. @Sentient and @HABD:

    Thank you for the breakdowns. It’s easy, even when you know a lot about this shit, to lose context and start focusing on small details rather than the big picture.

    I recognized that I fucked up a bit with the day 2 by not escalating, but I buffered that by focusing on things I did right and how there was still attraction.

    There was. I didn’t totally blow it. But the broad perspective is that I’m rapidly diving into the FZ here.

    Sentient: “Get yeah hands upon her… take it from there.”

    That’s the way forward, basically. Although I did kino pretty well I think (stroking hair, hand around waist a lot, etc) it was all plausibly deniable in a way that, say, a kiss wouldn’t have been.

    It’s like there’s a point of no return with kino/contact. Before that, it serves as an enticement or invitation (like a girl stroking my thigh – we both know what it means but it doesn’t mean that we now have a sexual thing going. Me kissing her does. So does grabbing a boob – actually got my first girlfriend that way lol). (NEWBS/LURKERS NOTE THAT CALIBRATION IS ESSENTIAL DON’T JUST GRAB A GIRL’S BOOB LOL)

    “Seemed like a legit excuse to me.” Nah… if she REALLY wanted you she would arrange things to happen some how… just a symptom of sliding into the FZ.

    Here’s something I don’t quite get. I remember reading Blackdragon saying that, in general, a guy who hasn’t fucked her yet is a fairly low priority for a girl. Once you make it happen she starts to be about you hardcore. Buuut I’ve had girls I haven’t banged really chase me also in the past, and it seems pretty uncorrelated with me gaming them well. So is this just a disposition thing – like some girls are aggressive and some are more passive? Does her not aggressively making things happen really mean there’s a mediocre IL? Cause I get the sense here that a righteous escalation would unleash the tiger in her.

    “The strongest qualification I’ve heard was “I have a really tight pussy” when I declined to take a woman to my room… There is the difference.

    Well, she did tell me today that she has ‘really nice curves.’ And that her ass is more tanned than mine.

    She opened me today to sorta apologize again for not being able to make it. Another confusing convo – she apologized right after sending me that for ‘just letting my brain say whatever,’ like she was embarrassed. I told her she thinks too much. She says we need to figure out a time more in advance so we can actually make it happen (turns out she tried to invite me to a wine tasting on Friday but I missed the email till today, ha) but then was talking about other people coming….this is all really up-and-down.

    “You can get this, let her reopen you, then set up a night meet then escalate…

    Thanks man. I’ll do what I can. Try to cold approach a bit before then too, keep things rolling.

    HABD: “(note – this seems to be your pattern on letting the FI push on you = YOU decide that there is NO possibility of success, so ‘why even try’…)”

    Yep.

    “lol… just ‘talking’ to young girls isn’t against the law…yet anyway…lol…but breaking that ‘probably in-high-school’ mentality might take some work…but recognize it for the FI in play (shame for even ‘thinking’ of them sexually)…and that’s really IS the only way to meet a hot 18yo…lol…

    Yep.

    “J: Stranger, huh? 😉 [mild shit test…]”

    How so? How to react to that one?

    “J: What time? I’m having wonderful morning relaxing in the sun [it was unseasonably great weather today]. [mild shit test… she really wants you to figure this out…lol]

    I thought the asking about time was a good sign. [it was…if you treated it like a shit test…lol…instead of a ‘logical’ question…bc she SHOULD be willing to completely rearrange her schedule to accommodate an alpha stud like you…since you are generously allowing her the opportunity to even have that chance…see how that MPoO works?…] I give a timeframe, [= beta fail…] she just fixates on taking about sunbathing [probably more mild shit testing, which i’m guessing you also missed…] and I tease her about that [that’s good…] – like, I can’t imagine her with a tan (she’s fair-skinned) and girls are like cats, etc, she responds well. [does she ‘submit’ or ‘banter’…?] But then… [i’m guessing ‘banter’…lol]”

    So…just ignore what she says and be like ‘be at x at y time?’ I mean, I’m not really skeptical, I’m just seeing if that’s what you really mean. I’ve not tried being that unaccomadatingly in-charge much before, and when I’ve tried to be I usually just get a polite demurral.

    I suppose in general I’m dancing around being very sexual (bc she acts like a blushing violet a bit) but probably if I pushed through that it’d be fine. I remember I was drunk-ish texting a good catholic girl once – hot, Lebanese girl I worked with – and basically was just telling her how I had a huge dick and I was gonna do x to her with it and she was just like ‘oh my!’ and ‘go onnnn…’ in her replies. Top kek. This is one of those things where, if you have the balls to do something, you can likely get away with it.

    “J: haha they [tan lines] are important you know😉 [=beta bait…]

    Yep, fallen for that enough times to either ignore or escalate, pref. with devalidation.

    “J: I wish I could but blah blah apologizes more [shit tests…probably]
    Me: [ignore the refusal, joke about the tan lines] [was there anything sexualized about that, or was it more bantering?…] “

    The joking I did is the next bit. Mild sexualizing:

    “It’s symbiotic you know. Girls soak up the sun, I soak up the girls. That’s what beaches are for.

    “did you personalize this idea to ‘soaking’ HER?…lol

    Nope. Thought about it but chickened out, ha.

    “that was a good way to end it… a better way, would have been to just tell her to meet you at the park/hike…”

    Even though she almost certainly would have said sorry but no? She really did seem to have her mind made up. Maybe I could have done something to change this earlier, but I’m not sure I coulda just been like ‘so anyways meet me there in 20’ at the tail end.

    “translation = ‘you are not an alpha stud, bc you don’t know that much about ‘quality girls’ (ie sexual girls…)… i’m a quality girl…not like those other ‘tanning bed sluts’ who get rid of tan lines…i want tan lines… but not for you…but only bc you don’t ‘just get it’…
    the question is why would she want tan lines if she wasn’t going to show them to anybody?…lol…
    So a) she’s qualifying herself to me. [that’s not what she’s doing…she’s put you in the FZ…this is just her hamsterizing away her prior attraction…]”

    sadface

    “props on that… that’s one step closer to RP interactions with girls…”

    I’ll get there, I never let a damn thing stop me in my life in the long run 8)

    Thanks again y’all. I’ll try to reject attempts by her to get me to come to things with other people present, like she’s angling for now, unless I get a serious vibe of ‘if these people approve of you it’s on.’ And I’ve time bridged a potential evening solo meetup. Maybe I’ll spike things a bit by doing some more aggressive texting while I’m amped cold approaching, then try to meet up in a few weeks.

    I’ve generally found that if you’re up-front sexual with a girl you can get away with more than you think. Once I texted my ex (rough breakup and I went total clingy beta) when she was in the early stages of a relationship with a new guy, and all her friends were doing the whole ‘you need to ignore that loser for your own good’ to her. And instead of doing the whole ‘how are you?’ or ‘here’s a funny pic that reminded me of you’ thing guys do to test the waters, I was just like: “I’m making pancakes. Get over here and we’ll eat pancakes and make out.” Her: “What?!” Me: “That’s what I wanna do right now. You coming?” Her: “No makeouts ;)”

    And so on. She turned out to be visiting family so logistics were shitty but if it weren’t for that who knows.

    And this girl was pissed at me at the time, and fucking railed at me if I brought up our past at all! All I did was just act like, ‘hey, I wanna fuck you, wanna fuck?’ in less direct words and she was cheerful and flirty.

    Lol girls.

  23. @Scray

    Heh. ‘Do you want to kiss me?’

    It’s like a knife. Who said great inventions had to be complicated?

  24. “also….altho i hated it at first….my go to first kiss line is mystery’s: do you want to kiss me?
    fucking genius.
    perfect.
    a miracle of optimal game.”

    I’ve used a variation of this… still from Mystery, you just go for the kiss and if she gives you the cheek or pulls back you say “You looked like you wanted me to kiss you… I didn’t say I would now” and go on with the conversation, try again later. Not logical, yup…. cats are not dogs.

  25. Forge – “I’ve generally found that if you’re up-front sexual with a girl you can get away with more than you think.”

    “It’s like there’s a point of no return with kino/contact. ”

    Annnnndd there you go. It’s the issue of intent… with intent you separate yourself from the rest of the orbiters. doesn’t guarantee a fuck, but it puts you on a better footing, changes all the subcoms and all the future interactions…

    On this here:

    “Here’s something I don’t quite get. I remember reading Blackdragon saying that, in general, a guy who hasn’t fucked her yet is a fairly low priority for a girl. Once you make it happen she starts to be about you hardcore. Buuut I’ve had girls I haven’t banged really chase me also in the past, and it seems pretty uncorrelated with me gaming them well.”

    I guy that hasn’t fucked her yet that she is NOT attracted to is a low priority… I guy she really wants (like you in your example here) she MAKES happen… I.e. all those girls hanging around backstage hoping to meet the band… haven’t been fucked yet, but are going to great lengths to try to be, from guys they are attracted to… right?

    You can totally bang this girl, even if you keep chatting along like a slightly better beta, after 4 or 5 meets and some wine, bang. She likes you. The risk though is one of the other guys, or some new dude, swoops in in the meantime and smashes her… because you know you guys are really just friends and all…

  26. @kfg

    ‘Bummer.’

    The world would be a happier place if girls were less stingy with their boobs.

    Everyone loves boobs.

    As a consolation tho, it does really feel like you’re just grabbing it when the moment arises. It’s seeing the moment that’s the key.

  27. @Sentient

    Ya, it’s a weird thing re: intent. Cause it’s patently obvious to both of us that we’d fuck each other given half a chance. But that’s different from intent. That seems to be more about the gumption to MAKE SHIT HAPPEN from the guy. Which makes it ‘ok’ for the girl to ‘just let it happen.’

    Probably tied to the way chicks are wired to be strongly turned on by guys being strongly turned on by them, and who have the guts to ACT. They desire your desire.

    I suppose I just don’t quite get the difference between your urgently pursuing her to get the bang, which shows intent and is attractive to her (so you actually get the bang) VS her chasing you strongly bc you’re high-value to her. It’s like there’s two separate mechanisms there.

    I’ve not really heard pua stuff distinguishing this before. I’ve heard it describe both dynamics, but not compare or contrast them.

  28. @Rollo

    And it’s not just the arts; in virtually every aspect that you could consider applicable to Mastery there are literally more resources available to master a particular art or science, even sports than at any other time in history, yet the human condition is to take all that for granted and to be prone to indolent lethargy.

    I think people have always been prone to indolent lethargy, but the realities of a less than incredibly prosperous society prevented them from being entirely lazy. However, there have always been a few people who have taken initiative in the face of all odds and became masterful at their respective fields. This current environment advantages these people, even though they have a great deal competition from mediocrities.

    I see the fall of, say, the publishing houses to be unfortunate, since we’re subjected to so much more shit than we were before. However, it also creates a much more democratic system for the selection of good writing, literary genres, and literature itself. It also allows a greater distribution of wealth between authors, rather than having a gigantic filter which gives some of them a large chunk of income, and others nothing.

    It does make getting into the arts a much less viable full-time job than it once was, however it is much more accessible as a part-time moneymaking hobby for many people then it was before.

    “We live in an age where the resources to mastery have never been more accessible, but we also casually dismiss the disciplines needed to attain true mastery.”

    That’s the chief disadvantage of the current system, as I see it. Without a strong emphasis on the discipline of mastery, we tend to not get Sistine Chapels and the like. We tend to get more good art but less great art because great art takes great discipline and great resources.

    The future is: less books and oil paintings, more blogs and graffiti. But some of it will be very good blogs and graffiti.

  29. @Rollo
    >http://www.westword.com/news/why-bigfoot-porn-author-virginia-wade-quit-the-monster-smut-game-5123399

    Monster porn takes the Red Pill!

    ‘aside from the 1977 paperback Nights With Sasquatch, the market for a rape/seduction story with what she refers to as “the Ultimate Alpha Male” had yet to be thoroughly exploited.

    So Virginia Wade got busy.’

    There’s gotta be another Red Pill Market out there waiting to fill females’ need to get wet … LOL

  30. @Forge the sky

    “I suppose I just don’t quite get the difference between your urgently pursuing her to get the bang, which shows intent and is attractive to her (so you actually get the bang) VS her chasing you strongly bc you’re high-value to her. It’s like there’s two separate mechanisms there.”

    I think the key here is the fact that times have changed. There’s more noise, there is social media, there is validation, there is the screaming mainstream media yelling in girls ears that “you have the pussy, so you make the rules”. No woman wouldn’t acquiesce to an apex alpha if given the discreet backstage pass, but less than alpha makes the girl pause when she has the cuteness, the pussy and can play her trump card when she damn well pleases and as it suits her whims.

    I think modern trends have made gaming women in PUA style less predictable. LTR’s are still very predictable, as long as the man can game well. The game is the same, the outcome is different in 2016 compared to 10 to 20 years ago.

    These next two sentences you wrote I think are crucial in seduction. I know they are key in LTR’s. The problem is they are probably less important in PUA game like M3 Mystery Method stages. “Super fucking hot desire” for a woman probably plays less of a role in Attraction and Comfort phases. (And certainly plays a role in SNL which is going from zero mph to seduction.)

    Forge: “Probably tied to the way chicks are wired to be strongly turned on by guys being strongly turned on by them, and who have the guts to ACT. They desire your desire.”

    See, that is the essence of 50 shades porn. The desire to be desired porn. All women have that fantasy. (But when they have plenty of beta orbiters showing them desire, how do you make them choose you?) Lots can attract them and comfort them, after they are seduced is when the desire dynamic really takes hold.

    Daniel Bergner wrote about that stuff based on alleged research. I didn’t read
    “What Do Women Want?: Adventures in the Science of Female Desire” by him, but he had a couple articles he wrote in New York Times and one written about him in Salon.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html

    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/02/the_truth_about_female_desire_its_base_animalistic_and_ravenous/

    So a girls’ seeing desire from a man is key, but how she processes that at her station in life and social conditions is a myriad of permutations as can be for the less than apex alpha, if she has plenty of orbiters or Plan B’s and plenty of social media validation.

    I do know that a woman in an LTR will often accuse a man, even if he has one-tis for her with ” you don’t love me”. This can mean many things from you don’t let me dominate you and you are not an apex alpha, to you don’t show me you have supreme desire for me like Christian Grey does for Anastasia (and you’re also not providing me with and endless supply of beta bucks, either…..). In LTR’s that is basically a declaration of you didn’t fuck me good. In initial game, you probably shouldn’t overthink desire. Just stick to Mystery Method, which is a deconstruction of attract, engender comfort and seduce.

    But the bottom line is don’t overthink it (despite me doing so above) and just grow your mindset (to initiate) and have Game mastery. Relax and game well.

    And sorry for the ramble. Don’t know if any of that made sense. My excuse is fatigue and scatterbrained-ness from golfing and ranching and sunburn. And of course I can always use the blood-sugar excuse. I rarely get to use that excuse in my LTR–it is just not appropriate.

  31. And there is always Roissy’s XIII’th Commandment:

    Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little

    Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.

    And Law #28

    Enter Action with Boldness

    If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: Better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid.

    “Lions Circle the Hesitant Prey. People have a sixth sense for the weaknesses of others. If, in a first encounter, you demonstrate your willingness to compromise, back down, and retreat, you bring out the lion even in people who are not necessarily bloodthirsty. Everything depends on perception, and once you are seen as the kind of person who quickly goes on the defensive, who is willing to negotiate and be amenable, you will be pushed around without mercy.

    Boldness Strikes Fear; Fear Creates Authority. The bold move makes you seem larger and more powerful than you are. If it comes suddenly, with the stealth and swiftness of a snake, it inspires that much more fear. By intimidating with a bold move, you establish a precedent: in every subsequent encounter, people will be on the defensive, in terror of your next strike.

    Reluctance and indecision make you seem passive, boldness makes you seem assertive and dominant. Do not be recklessly bold, you may weaken your position, be calculated in your boldness. If you’re caught by surprise, suppress the sensation of distress, think quickly and clearly and react with emphatic precision.

    It is better not to move at all than it is to make your move with reticence. The whole “go hard or go home” motto touches upon this.”

  32. Forge
    I see the fall of, say, the publishing houses to be unfortunate, since we’re subjected to so much more shit than we were before.

    You haven’t been paying attention, then. The big pubhouses are the main perps on the book side of the street in propping up the FI for years. It was the big pubs that printed Men, Women and Rape and other feminist hate tracts back in the 70’s and 80’s. A tiny handful of gatekeepers decided what was and what was not “publishable”, just as a tiny handful of gatekeepers still decides what is aired on TV as “news” and what is not.

    The key player in the new pub world will be the critic, the honest reviewer, the opinion-leader who is literate enough to read real books and has sufficient mental power to write about them cogently. Goodreads was an attempt in that direction, eh, not sure how that’s working out.

    Exploding the gatekeeper bottleneck in the publishing houses can only benefit men. Because it takes one bit of power away from the FI.

  33. SJF
    Daniel Bergner wrote about that stuff based on alleged research. I didn’t read
    “What Do Women Want?: Adventures in the Science of Female Desire” by him, but he had a couple articles he wrote in New York Times and one written about him in Salon.

    Might want to read the book, then, as there’s more in it than in those articles.

  34. I understand, Anon Reader, the articles were written prior to him formulating the book (the first article written by the confused author in 2009, the book in 2013, and the second article by a woman, LOL that) and the narrative of the articles were from a FI mental point of origin. I imagine the book is quite a bit better.

    Based on Rollo’s work and the manosphere evolved discussions, it is pretty apparent to me what women my wife needs. I was making a broader point (and probably being either confused–mind fog– or lazy in posting those article links). Bergner’s book would probably rank low on my list of reading material, but only because others–a lot of them– take precedence and the desire to pursue it is low for me, but I think it may be higher for a guy like Forge. (Note your slowness in reading Antifragile–that shit happens, reading with reluctance.)

    Point was: Forge astutely knows women desire to be desired, and I was trying to put Forge at ease with being comfortable with that and escalating rather than debating (Otherwise know as acceptance phase):

    “I suppose I just don’t quite get the difference between your urgently pursuing her to get the bang, which shows intent and is attractive to her (so you actually get the bang) VS her chasing you strongly bc you’re high-value to her. It’s like there’s two separate mechanisms there.”

    Catering to female desires is a tactic. It helps to know what females desire and it helps to use appropriate tactics, short of being an apex alpha rock star. I don’t discount reading the actual book.

    I don’t claim expertise in single man pick up artistry. I do claim expertise in Mindset. I abhor a fixed mindset, which can’t countenance, vs. a growing mindset, which I embrace (good MPO and Frame). That is all I am simply espousing.

    I think fueling “the desire to be desired” is important during or after the seduction phase. Not necessarily during the attraction and comfort phase. (In Mystery Method context)

    Even during a LTR, in other words, in an LTR a man still has to generate attraction and comfort, then she can surmise desire from him to her and act appropriately. Game is fungible across all relationship platforms.

    I guess what I’m saying is get past A and C and into Seduction.

    So escalate. But easily said and easily done from us old fuckers with a low downside and high upside…..

  35. re: Mastery

    Reminds me of a story:

    A young Japanese archer took great pride in the excellence of his marksmanship with a bow and arrow. Having read a lot of pithy Zen stories and received some basic training on mindfulness, he soon came to the conclusion that he was a true master of archery. So he decided to travel to a remote mountain monastery in order to challenge an old Zen master, who was reputed to have once possessed great skill with a bow and arrow.

    The young man demonstrated remarkable technical proficiency when he hit a distant bull’s eye on his first try, and then split that arrow with his second shot.

    “There,” he said to the old man, “see if you can match that!”

    Undisturbed, the master did not draw his bow, but rather motioned for the young archer to follow him up the mountain. Curious about the old fellow’s intentions, the champion followed him high into the mountain until they reached a deep chasm spanned by a rather flimsy and shaky log.

    Calmly stepping out onto the middle of the unsteady and certainly perilous bridge, the old master picked a far away tree as a target, drew his bow, and fired a clean, direct hit.

    “Now it is your turn,” he said as he gracefully stepped back onto the safe ground.

    Staring with terror into the seemingly bottomless and beckoning abyss, the young man could not force himself to step out onto the log, no less shoot at a target.

    “You have great skill with the bow and arrow. But you seem to have very little skill with the mind that controls them. This is a dangerous predicament for an archer, especially when he has to face the reality of war, where violence can arise upon any kind of terrain and under any conditions. Pride, anger and fear are the inner enemies of every warrior. I have trained many young archers, and those who were afflicted with pride always tended to end up making me their target. When their arrow hit the mark they would always praise their own skill, but when the arrow went amiss they always blamed the straightness of the arrow.”

  36. The audiobook version of “The Rational Male” by Rollo Tomassi should have been completed in less than a month.

    I was doing what I had dreamt of doing.
    The hit and run accident changed things.

    I can’t thank you enough for your encouraging words,
    and I appreciate your patience.

    there are literally more resources available to master a particular art

    Today, it’s much easier to reach out to those that are the true masters and to learn from them. That’s a wonderful thing since my brain is re-learning how to do so much of what came naturally before.

    As a child, I visualized being “that” voice, and I reached out to my heroes to learn from them. I’ve never considered myself to be that talented, but doing the work is the excitement that, to others, has appeared completely unreasonable and obsessive drive. To me, it’s been like breathing.

    Rather than convincing anyone with logic, I did the work, nonstop.

    Now, I’m visualizing it again, and I’m learning from my heroes, practicing, doing the work.

    That unreasonable, obsessive drive is fueled by seeing what I am already doing in the future.

    At the two hour mark in “The Rational Male” by Rollo Tomassi (audiobook) you’ll hear the words of one of Rollo’s most influential art teachers:

    There are two types of artists; those who were born with a natural, innate gift for art, and those who lack that gift, but possess such a passion for art that it drives them to be good at it. The true masters are the artists that combine both natural talent and the drive that comes from a passion for it.

    My brain has forgotten much natural talent and skills I’ve worked a lifetime to build.

    “The Rational Male” by Rollo Tomassi is saving people around the world from committing suicide! That’s just part of the reason that bringing “The Rational Male” alive as an audiobook has been that source of ROCKET FUEL that has pushed me harder every hour of every day to keep going.

    Completion of this audiobook has meant I’m going to not only have abilities completely restored, but that new ones are being developed. I’ve got a long way to go, but the drive is here.

    The patience that Rollo Tomassi displayed speaks volumes about his character as a Man. He never pressured me in any way though I know he had pressure from a whole lot of people. He simply told me to do my best and to let him know when I think it’s ready for Audible.

    The most powerful men I know read by listening to books. The 14 hours, 20 minutes and seven seconds of “The Rational Male” by Rollo Tomassi (audiobook version) has been chiseled out of more than 100 hours of recorded narration.

    It’s free to new Audible members.
    Audible put it on sale for half price at first.

    At this moment, Audible has posted a “special price” of $3.47

    We put a lot of time into this, and I appreciate your obtaining the book.

    We have no idea how long that price will be there, and neither Rollo nor I had any say in pricing the audiobook. That’s determined by Amazon and Audible.

    The audiobook was at #30 in Books > Audible Audiobooks > Health, Mind & Body > Self-Help.

    At “free” or $3.47 at this moment, if enough are obtained, it will make the top 20 in that category. Then, Amazon and Audible will feature it, and “The Rational Male” will be known to a much larger audience.

  37. Another good one from Chuang Tzu. Very good RP lesson in this one, as this applies to dealing with women just as much as it applies to everything else in life:

    “When an archer is shooting for nothing, he has all his skill.
    If he shoots for a brass buckle, he is already nervous.
    If he shoots for a prize of gold, he goes blind or sees two targets.
    He is out of his mind!

    His skill has not changed, but the prize divides him.
    He cares.
    He thinks more of winning than of shooting.
    And the need to win drains him of power.”

  38. . (Note your slowness in reading Antifragile–that shit happens, reading with reluctance.)

    Already explained that. It isn’t reluctance. Let’s say I was lingering over a few little plates of food and a glass of older Amarone, slowly. Would you assert I was drinking that wine with reluctance? Or appreciation?

    Catering to female desires is a tactic. It helps to know what females desire and it helps to use appropriate tactics, short of being an apex alpha rock star. I don’t discount reading the actual book.

    Reading that book ought to kill any Madonna/whore mindset dead, dead, dead.

    Bonus time: a quote from Antifragile that is totally on topic: AF-BB. Taleb is quite red pill, here.

    Biological systems are replete with barbell strategies. Take the following mating approach, which we call the 90 percent accountant, 10 perecnt rock star. (I am just reporting, not condoning.) Females in the animal kingdom, in some mongamous species (which includes humans) tend to marry the equivalent of the accountant, or, even more colorless, the economist, someone stable who can provide, and once in a while they cheat with the aggressive alpha, the rock star, as part of a dual strategy. They limit their downside while using extrapair copulation to get the genetic upside, or some great fun, or both. Even the timing of the cheating seems nonrandom, as it corresponds to periods with high likelihood of pregnancy. We see evidence of such a strategy with the so-called monogamous birds; they enjoy cheating, with more than a tenth of the broods coming from males other than the putative father. The phenomenon is real, but the theories around it vary. Evolutionary theorists claim that the females want both economic-social stability and good genes for their children. Both cannot always be obtained from someone in the middle witl all these virtues (though good gene providers, those alpha males aren’t likely to be stable, and vice versa). Why not have the pie and eat it too? Stable life and good genes. But an alternative theory may be they just want to have pleasure – or a stable life and good fun.

    Any man with a pair of The Glasses on has read the IOI’s from married women. What he does with that information is a different topic, the desire on the part of the women is clearly there. It’s in the hindbrain.

  39. @Forge the Sky @Sentient
    “That seems to be more about the gumption to MAKE SHIT HAPPEN from the guy. Which makes it ‘ok’ for the girl to ‘just let it happen.’”

    This just comes back to ASD, that’s all. She needs to feel like she has no accountability/responsibilty for what happens.

    “Probably tied to the way chicks are wired to be strongly turned on by guys being strongly turned on by them, and who have the guts to ACT. They desire your desire.”

    Only if they’re attracted to you. That’s why in Mystery Method (which again is the breakdown/reverse engineering of what HAPPENS in all seduction/attraction, not theory/guesswork) you don’t make a Statement of Interest (Male to Female interest, aka A3) until you’ve passed A2 (Female to Male interest, aka iois etc). Because if you make an SoI without having A2, she doesn’t WANT your SoI. She doesn’t WANT your desire, you are NOTHING to her at best, or the equivalent of a fat chick to us at the worst. And how do we get A2? By Demonstrating SOME kind of High-Value (by her value system). If you don’t have value to her, she doesn’t have desire for you. So you DHV (A1) to stoke desire (A2) and then reciprocate interest (A3) after making her earn it with a qualifying her.

    When you see guys going up to “just kiss her as an opener” or “just kiss her off hello”, they’re still following this order of stages, but they’re relying on their externals and whatever subcomms they demonstrate in that 0.1 seconds to be high-value enough for them to BE their DHV and as they’re moving in the girl has decided in that split second (Malcom Gladwell Blink and all that) that ok those externals/subcomms plus going for it gives them juuust enough DHV value that they’re open to an escalation and BECAUSE in that split nanosecond they’ve decided “ok I’m interested juuuust enough for this” as the guy is getting into her personal space (which builds sexual tension, see the Gambler/Liam vids I always link about cutting space, and going for the kiss CAN be a DHV in itself (shows confidence, assuming attraction, probable former success (preselection) etc)), the guy is reaching her just a split second after that split second where she had just enough A2 based off his split second DHV of whatever she saw/felt from his externals/subcomms in that split second before that.

    So it’s still Mystery Method, it’s still in the same order that Mystery laid out (because it’s reverse engineered), it’s just happening SO FAST that guys summarize it as “bro just kiss the girl!!”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axZ6mG__ZqU

    To analyze those interactions we have to take that one or two seconds and streeeeetch it out in super slow motion to see what’s going on.

    The difference between whether you get the kiss or get the cheek or get the “fuck off” running away is how much value you have to her. If you’re really good looking, that MIGHT be high-value to her, but that might also trigger her ASD (“why would he want me” “does he do this with all the girls, I’m not a slut like them” “wow he’s so hot I don’t want him to think I’m just some bar skank so I’d better not kiss him” “my friends are around and they hate this type of guy” “ugh, this guy looks like he’s obsessed with the gym I remember dating a guy like that and hated it I want a dad-bod guy”) etc. It depends entirely on her value system, and the guy’s subcomms make a big difference (watch Keys to the VIP and you’ll see TONS of great-looking dudes act like lame chodes with horrible low-value subcomms when it comes to escalation and the girls reject them for it).

    That’s why a lot of guys learning “game” who get jacked just spam approach like GLL in that 15 min pickup vid, because they don’t really understand game deep enough to stretch out that 2 second window. To them it’s all just a numbers game and their method is enhance their externals as much as possible to hopefully appeal to the widest number of women and then just cross your fingers and take your random inconsistency. When you ask them “why didn’t it work on that girl?” they usually can’t explain why, they’ll just sum it up as “she just wasn’t DTF bro” or blame something else that’s out of their control, when really, if you took that 2 second approach they did and stretched it out and got inside that girl’s head and her history and life, you would see that he didn’t DHV enough in that split-second to have enough A2 to show interest back (A3) and so they didn’t get the kiss.

    But those guys are so chained to society’s value system that they can’t imagine that a girl WOULDN’T be into muscles or tall guys or being ripped etc. Like it’s inconceivable to them that the girl may have a different value system based on her own life experiences/tastes/blueprint of what gets her wet. So instead of saying “maybe I’m not DHV’ing in the right way for this particular girl”, they turn things around and place the blame on the GIRL and say “oh she’s a prude” or “oh she just wasn’t DTF no big deal bro lots of these sluts are horny as fuck just hit the next one up” etc because they can’t imagine that there isn’t a direct correlation between how good-looking they are and how turned on girls are (same with money etc).

    That’s why that GLL 15 min vid is frustrating to watch. Because their rejection of his escalation is just a lack of calibration on his part…if he calibrated to that the way Tyler Julien etc do, he would know “ok I don’t have enough value to her yet to do that, so I have to DHV a bit and then try again”. But his version of DHV’ing is trying to awkwardly force into the conversation that he’s in law school or whatever it was, and it comes off the same as a guy trying to brag about his new watch or car…try-hard and weird like he’s qualifying himself, so the girls are just kind of like “meh” about his “DHV”s, which comes back to what I said before about how what GLL is teaching (and most of the TRP forums and Manosphere) is just a watered down unstructured BAD version of what Mystery and crew explained step by step in-depth to do more efficiently.

    This understanding is why Mystery frontloads a lot of his value, to ensure consistent success. He is basically never going for the kiss unless he KNOWS he’s going to get it because he’s never going for it until he has massive A2 (Female to Male interest) after doing a bunch of DHV’ing (A1). And in his mind any girl he doesn’t get enough A2 to escalate on, he adds to his social circles and introduces them to his friends (VS the guys who just “NEXT!!!” out of a set where the girl isn’t immediately into them (even though they haven’t DHV’ed enough)), so in his mind it’s all win/win for everyone involved.

    And ultimately that’s why the kiss her off the hello is so randomly hit or miss. It’s mind-blowing to guys that they can do it at ALL and that blows a bunch of their limiting beliefs out of the way, so it’s good for them to do it, but the results are generally wildly inconsistent (unless the guy REALLY tightens that little split second window of DHV’ing, like Tyler will lock eyes with a girl as he’s approaching her and puts out the right subcomms etc to do it but he’s doing that consciously and knows it’s necessary VS just randomly grabbing girls to kiss them).

    That’s why whenever guys are like “just go up and try to kiss every girl” I always step in and say no, TRY to kiss every girl, but do it off a VERY FAST version of Mystery Method: DHV and the FIRST ioi you get qualify her once on something that isn’t her looks and THEN go for the kiss, instead of just going up and with no iois going for the kiss. The difference is like 5-10 seconds, but the consistency goes up dramatically because it’s following the proper structure.

    “I suppose I just don’t quite get the difference between your urgently pursuing her to get the bang, which shows intent and is attractive to her (so you actually get the bang) VS her chasing you strongly bc you’re high-value to her. It’s like there’s two separate mechanisms there.”

    There’s two ways to urgently pursue her. One is high-value coming from a place of self-amused “we both know we want this, I’m choosing you over other girls, I WANT you but I don’t NEED you” etc, the other is low-value coming from a place of “please I NEED to fuck you, all my self-esteem is based on whether I get you or not, please I NEED you to WANT me”. The problem is most new guys don’t have the abundance of women in their lives to pull off the high-value version and end up doing the low-value version because they really do need to get laid lol So you can get like 90% of the way to the lay and then drop the ball when that desperation kicks in because the whole time the frame was that she was the one being chased and deciding what happens.

    So with all those variables yes it can work, but it’s not the highest consistent % odds. Whereas if you’re running Mystery/Julien/Tyler style game where you DHV enough and disqualify the girl enough that she’s chasing you hardcore (like that blonde girl following Mystery around all night demanding he take her phone number etc in that infield I linked in the other thread), that’s basically a 100% success rate whenever you can get them into that Doggy Dinner Bowl stage of Attraction. You would almost have to actively try NOT to get laid to avoid it if you get them to that stage and even if you try to avoid it often it’ll just make them try HARDER because it’s a game of cat & mouse to them.

    So ultimately while MM is a slower route VS just getting jacked and playing the numbers game, it ends up being more consistent in the longrun because she’s decided she WANTS this to happen and it’s more flexible because you can always lead the interaction in some other direction or take a step back congruently when you get resistance and keep DHVing (like say turning your back on her and engaging another girl beside you two or engaging her friends in high-value ways while casually discreetly freezing her out). Plus it’s game you can use if you’re not traditionally good-looking or don’t have externals (or no longer have them, like a player that loses his looks as he ages) that will help tip the odds of that forced split-second decision going for the insta-makeout, in your favor.

    On top of that you have to account for cultural shifts etc. Like look at a girl’s Tinder messages and you’ll find most of the guys are either trying super direct game that comes off douchebaggy/bravado (covering up low self-esteem by being TOO aggressive/forward) or super asexual indirect jokester nice guy game. There’s rarely any middle ground where the guy is BEING sexual (but not necessarily sexual toward HER, just cool joking/talking about sexual topics, comfortable with it) and qualifying her and pulling back to build value when he crosses lines etc

    So that girl goes out into the real world to a bar, and you come up and you CAN just try for the makeout…but if you DO, do it with that split second of following proper MM structure. Otherwise if you haven’t DHV’ed to her then you’re not really any different from the 200 guys on her Tinder that go “hey u dtf?” who also don’t have value to her and thus don’t get her interest.

    Also while being slutty is more socially acceptable now because of Feminism, girls here and there are wising up to the realization that putting out too soon and being too slutty makes high-value long-term partners only want a pump & dump instead of an LTR (you’ll see this a ton in the 23+ yo’s, and ESPECIALLY the late 20s and beyond crowd). So again you’re risking triggering a lot more ASD/LMR and blowing yourself out more with girls who WOULD’VE chosen you and fucked you if you had chilled and just DHV’ed in sexual ways (most of my DHV stories are sexual ones or involve sexual humor) and let her choose you, then did some push/pull by disqualifying her, making her qualify to you and invest/chase you, and THEN allow her to have the kiss.

    That’s part of why I prefer indirect now (especially as I get older). I’m very unlikely to have the kind of externals that a lot of other guys have, but BECAUSE I make girls chase ME, I’m the guy they’re having their providery guys (who are way better looking, richer, more successful, more travelled, better dressed, etc than me) drop off at my place after their asexual date where she’s making him wait. Because she knows she can have him whenever she wants, he’s laid his cards on the table and chosen her and is chasing her. But when we met I made her choose ME and that made all the difference.

    It goes deeper too, like that’s why she’ll gloss over other guys’ features and notice their flaws more. Because they’re choosing her so she’s in the postion of “is he good enough?” and trying to find ways to disqualify him. But because she’s chosen me, she’ll gloss over my flaws and notice my features more, the same way she would tell me she loves my belly if we were in an LTR, and she legitimately WOULD…while we’re in that LTR and she’s attracted to me lol Once we’re NOT, then she’ll hate it and be like oh man what was I thinking lol

    None of this is to take away from direct game. It’s good to show intent…but do it in A3, after you have A2 (and make sure you understand how to DHV (A1) so you can GET A2, and how to transition into A3 properly (qualify her on something other than her looks)).

    As I’ve explained in my archives somewhere, what Julien has done with his system in PIMP is he’s taken Mystery Method and just looped A1 – A3…Mystery would just disqualify the girl once or twice max and then let her “pass” and give her an SOI. And that was fine back before social media and smartphones and shit, when girls weren’t SWIMMING in SOIs from guys from all angles (even that Like on her Facebook pic is an SOI).

    But to compete with how thirsty all the other guys are, Julien has ramped it up so that he DISqualifies the girls harshly (emotional impact) and repeatedly while looping back to A1. So Mystery looks like A1, A2, disqualify, qualify, A3. But Julien looks like A1, A2, disqualify, A1, A2, disqualify, disqualify, disqualify, A1, TONS of A2, disqualify, A1, A2 through the roof, NOW qualify, NOW A3.

    Mystery did a similar looping for fun (again see that blonde girl chasing him around for his number) but it wasn’t as in-your-face as Julien…but then Mystery wasn’t competing with her pulling out her smartphone in the bathroom and seeing 50 messages from orbiters, ex-boyfriends, fuckbois, Tinder matches, Instagram/Facebook comments/Likes, Dicaprio Tweeting them, etc etc

    PIMP IS just Mystery Method amped up for 2016’s culture. If you understand MM well (what Mystery ACTUALLY says, not the cartoon character summary version of what 90% of the TRP/Manosphere (and even a lot of the modern PUA generation) THINKS Mystery said based on shallow glances at the material or second/third/fourth-hand summaries) and listen to PIMP you’ll notice Julien is stressing most of the same stuff Mystery does (like time-bridging to solidify things if you HAVE to settle for a number, and viewing a number AS settling etc). Because the way seduction works (A1-S3) hasn’t changed. It’s human nature even if we aren’t conscious that we’re doing it or even if it happens in that blink of an eye.

  40. @Chump no More: thanks for the link. That is classic “Saving the Best”, material right there. Several of comments in the thread are also worth reading. This stuff is pretty common with women following the “epiphany” track (in contrast with others following the “Making up for lost time” track, I guess).

    Link again, with the Rational Male for the original article.

    http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/14365/my-man-feels-bad-and-i-want-us-to-get-past-this/p1

    https://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/

  41. @YaReally Mystery is great but I found him too theoretical. What I needed when I started gaming girls was a how to guide.

    Krauser’s DayGame Mastery was a game changer for my own game.

    He offers very clear step by step scripts and ideas for opening, spiking attraction, building comfort, spiking attraction then escalating.

    Mystery is still the Gold Standard, but since then a number of great guides have come out.

    The RSD stuff I find more motivational than prescriptive.

    I think a lot of guys–myself included– just have no idea where to start, what to do, how to handle shit tests, when to escalate, how to handle being turned down, how far to push.

    Now, for me it’s become more natural and I feel less pressured–which is probably why I’m doing so well.

    I’m now overtly sexual with the girls I’m banging and they are with me—they’re sending selfies, I’m telling them how I’m going to fuck them…

    There is absolutely no hestitation on my part. A year, 18 months ago I was still in a kind of funk about how to escalate.

    I just texted one of my plates: “Wanna fuck?” she texted back “lol am free 3pm”

    When you become aware of the power of being a sexual being, you aren’t so bogged down in the details of “What would be a great response to her text?” You just know and send it.

    The one thing I’d like to see more posts on and can share my own experiences with is Shit-Tests.

    Only girls who are attracted throw them at you because there’s no need to test someone who you don’t see as a challenge.

  42. OT: this recent story, and the typically fem-centric, white-knighting responses to it, are fairly interesting and predictable from a Red Pill perspective.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3537690/Monsters-look-normal-Mother-details-Navy-Veteran-husband-sexually-abused-teen-daughter-heart-wrenching-video-warn-predators-trust-kids-day.html

    17-year-old girl, probably from the lower levels of the social hierarchy, gets pregnant and becomes a single mother. She latches onto some local sleazy alpha with a wife and children, obviously enters a sexual relationship with him, gets him to divorce and remarry. Sleazy alpha proceeds to have sex, probably regular and consensual sex, with his new 15-year-old stepdaughter, who appears to be rather similar to her mother in terms of impulse control and hypergamy. What appears to end up happening is that stepdaughter and her fuckbuddy-stepdad have some sort of falling-out, and she accuses him of sexual assault, which, from a legal point of view, indeed happened. Her trashy mother spins the story as her heroic struggle against an evil, nasty, psychopathic agent of the white patriarchy. Manginas, tradcons and feminists shed countless tears of sorrow in response.

  43. @Sam Botta

    Listening to your reading of the rational male reminded me of an exceptional man.

    I was the way home one evening driving through the old neighborhood and saw a man crawling around on the floor of his garage in the dark I stopped to check his welfare.
    “Are you alright?” “Don’t come in here.” “Okay are you alright?” “Yes i am rebuilding a piano don’t come in please.”
    This man was totally blind and rewiring a piano he had everything laid out in order on the floor and didn’t want anything disturbed.I was understandably impressed and we talked for a while.He could fix anything,and had a bevy of women around to help drive him around and be his eyes.We became friends so that when he would rebuild an automatic transmission he would bring the valve body to me for the overhaul,i think he could do them but just didn’t want to take the time.

    Listening to your voice reminded me of his,very conscious of inflections and tone,as only a blind person might be,with an all BS aside attitude.

    Masterfully done.

  44. Forge / Yareally

    Forge, Yareally gets to this “I suppose I just don’t quite get the difference between your urgently pursuing her to get the bang, which shows intent and is attractive to her (so you actually get the bang) VS her chasing you strongly bc you’re high-value to her. It’s like there’s two separate mechanisms there.”

    Here with this:

    “There’s two ways to urgently pursue her. One is high-value coming from a place of self-amused “we both know we want this, I’m choosing you over other girls, I WANT you but I don’t NEED you” etc, the other is low-value coming from a place of “please I NEED to fuck you, all my self-esteem is based on whether I get you or not, please I NEED you to WANT me”. The problem is most new guys don’t have the abundance of women in their lives to pull off the high-value version and end up doing the low-value version because they really do need to get laid”

    I’ll elaborate a bit though. I think the word causing trouble here is “urgently” there are a lot of ways to interpret that, many negatively. I wouldn’t use urgently, perhaps another word – forcefully, intentionally, openly, unabashedly, unapologetically, etc.

    So going back to your scenario again, you had attraction -you got the number, got the day 2, got the IOI’s on the Day 2, etc. So from here, as you pointed out, the difference is the matter of escalating more intentionally with her, either via kino and kiss or verbally to the degree that she knows you are a sexual being and have sexual interest in her. And you get her to chase you from that point via the little pulls you can interject, as YaReally also points to. The fact that she knows you want to fuck her while she also knows you are fine with walking away creates a very powerful motivation for her to chase… cat string theory in action.

    The point being, at Day 3, she should know what you are about and you aren’t looking for a friend. Yes you manage ASD and let it just happen, but the comms are set. You pull the string on your Day 3 and she chases it. She doesn’t wait to see what happens next. Because she is filling in the blanks that when you are pulling away from her it is TOWARDS another girl, even if in fact this is not the case. More than anything else women want to beat the other women, the hamster requires it.

    So back to the Day 2 for a sec – play out the scenario where you go to kiss her and a) she goes with it or b) she demurs, and you do some more qualifying and takeaways and you end the date as you did.

    How does the “go for a hike” conversation play out know in either case? Can she credibly toy with you now [i.e. entertain the notions of her other orbiters] or is she being forced to confront the potential loss of you? Of course the conversation has to still be on the girl channel, but going for a hike takes on a sexual meaning. The matter becoming more when and not if

  45. @ YaReally

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR2j2RC0Ytk

    He thought getting a house and getting jacked would get him laid, and in typical aspie fashion couldn’t understand why it wasn’t working right off the bat when he’d awkwardly mention those in an attempt to DHV, or obviously roll his sleeves up to show off his biceps. Lol.

    The hard truth, as you’re always saying, is that it’s a skill. Just like the end of the story I shared:

    “I have trained many young archers, and those who were afflicted with pride always tended to end up making me their target. When their arrow hit the mark they would always praise their own skill, but when the arrow went amiss they always blamed the straightness of the arrow.”

    I was just looking back through a convo log from a year or two ago with a girl I hooked up with once, figured I’d put it up as a FR. I’ll just be a sec. It’s crazy looking over this since it was a couple years ago and I forgot all about it.

  46. @Forge

    I recognized that I fucked up a bit with the day 2 by not escalating, but I buffered that by focusing on things I did right and how there was still attraction.

    There was. I didn’t totally blow it. But the broad perspective is that I’m rapidly diving into the FZ here.

    you can still turn it around. you just have to follow the ‘step-by-step’ to get there… = AWALT…lol

    That’s the way forward, basically. Although I did kino pretty well I think (stroking hair, hand around waist a lot, etc) it was all plausibly deniable in a way that, say, a kiss wouldn’t have been.

    that ‘plausible deniability’ hurts you more than NOT touching her would have… bc it sets the expectation that that ‘touching’ is just part of your ‘friendship’. so, you have to ramp it up even MORE to get her to see you as ‘sexual’. which leads to ‘surprise! i have a penis!’ syndrome…lol…

    It’s like there’s a point of no return with kino/contact.

    ya, you have to slap her hindbrain to wake it up…lol…and tell it that it’s dealing with a MAN that can help it perform its prime directive = get superior genetics/procreate…lol…and since its default is ‘beta provider’, you can’t have ANY ambiguity… at least not in your subcomms…lol…some verbal ‘ambiguity’ is essential though to disarm her ASD… so, it can ‘just happen’…

    just as an aside – there was some confusion awhile ago about what ‘superior genetics’ actually means… from the hindbrain’s perspective, what’s the MOST important characteristic a male can have?… an overwhelming desire to put P in V… that’s it…lol…

    bc that’s the best way for a hindbrain to be sure that its genetics are passed on… all that other stuff – muscles, height, physical health, etc… that’s important ‘after the fact’… and the girl will choose from the best she can get of those characteristics, given equal desire to put P in V. but as YaReally has pointed out, that’s never an equal match, bc .0001% better desire to p in v = bang… and that ‘desire’ shows up as the willingness to violate social conventions and touch her…we are primates after all…

    Before that, it serves as an enticement or invitation (like a girl stroking my thigh – we both know what it means but it doesn’t mean that we now have a sexual thing going.

    lol… just bc YOU want to pretend that SHE doesn’t think her stroking your thigh is ‘sexual’ doesn’t make it true…lol…

    (note – i know this is challenging for you (= FI in play), but f*king girls really isn’t that ‘hard’ (pun intended…lol) you want it… and THEY want it… but you have to play by the evo psych ‘rules’… the FI just tricks you into believing that it should be hard (to ‘earn her’) bc that’s the whole premise behind BB…

    IF she’s stroking your thigh, and you DON’T just grab her hand and pull her back to your place and bang her silly…well, that’s just your hindbrain telling her hindbrain that you’re gay (even if you still haven’t come out…lol)…so, she probably thinking that you’ll make a great BFF…lol…

    i know it’s just the FI pushing on you, but i mean, seriously… what more do you want? that she actually pulls out your c*ck and just starts to suck it at the bar?…lol…IF she was stroking your thigh, she wasn’t just ‘throwing’ herself at you (girls can do THAT without touching you…lol) she was actually engaging in some pretty intimate foreplay…in PUBLIC…lol…

    and you said she was a ‘good girl’…lol…no wonder her hindbrain’s doubting your ability to convert…

    Here’s something I don’t quite get. I remember reading Blackdragon saying that, in general, a guy who hasn’t fucked her yet is a fairly low priority for a girl. Once you make it happen she starts to be about you hardcore. Buuut I’ve had girls I haven’t banged really chase me also in the past, and it seems pretty uncorrelated with me gaming them well. So is this just a disposition thing – like some girls are aggressive and some are more passive? Does her not aggressively making things happen really mean there’s a mediocre IL? Cause I get the sense here that a righteous escalation would unleash the tiger in her.

    that’s just based on the value you have to the girl… IF you have high value, she’ll chase you… pre- or post-bang…and post-bang your value to her goes up fast, bc she has made the ultimate investment in you…in evo psych terms, she’s burned through one of her precious eggs (with no more chance to use another one for at least a year or so… so, say that’s the equivalent of 12 eggs… out of how many total? (maybe 300 or so total possible…being generous…lol, it’s likely much less…)

    and that does that ‘tiger’ scare you?…lol… would that create some cognitive dissonance…between your expectations of ‘good girl’ and her actual behavior?…lol… welcome to the Red Pill…lol…AWALT…

    Well, she did tell me today that she has ‘really nice curves.’ And that her ass is more tanned than mine.

    = beta bait… not the same as Sentient’s ‘i have a tight pussy’ example… bc it wasn’t sexually specific… nor was it aimed directly at you, it was still her frame of her being the prize… which is what your dynamic has become. if you want to spin it into your favor, you need to get YOU to be the prize she is chasing…

    She opened me today to sorta apologize again for not being able to make it.

    ‘sort of’ apologizing really isn’t…lol…but she really does seem to want you to figure this out…remember, girls really don’t know what they are doing. it’s ALL unconscious level for them. their hamster just spins things based on what the hindbrain is telling it… but that doesn’t mean that her higher level thinking doesn’t have a voice/opinion. she could really like you and intellectually want you to be a stud for her, so she cajoles the hamster to make a plea to her hindbrain to at least give you another chance…lol… but ultimately, if she is as hot/cool as you say, her hindbrain will have the final say in the matter…lol… just bc she will have plenty of other ‘better’ (from her hindbrain’s pov) options…

    Another confusing convo – she apologized right after sending me that for ‘just letting my brain say whatever,’ like she was embarrassed.

    you are pinging both her AF and BB algorithms…so, she is confused about your intentions…lol…

    I told her she thinks too much. She says we need to figure out a time more in advance so we can actually make it happen (turns out she tried to invite me to a wine tasting on Friday but I missed the email till today, ha) but then was talking about other people coming….this is all really up-and-down.

    not if you look at the big picture… AF/BB in play…same as always…

    Thanks man. I’ll do what I can. Try to cold approach a bit before then too, keep things rolling.

    cold approaching is always a great choice…lol…

    “J: Stranger, huh? 😉 [mild shit test…]”

    How so? How to react to that one?

    same as any shit test (until you get more experience and start to use other techs…) = Agree and AMPLIFY…lol…

    her: Stranger, huh?
    you: the strangest!…2:00…

    then just go silent (which sets you back in your frame)… as she continues to banter with you, to pull you back into her frame… see how that works?…she’ll either show up or not (likely she would have…) but if she doesn’t, you aren’t out anything except being pulled back into her frame…which is still a win for you…lol…then you can ‘shame’ her for not showing up to ‘save’ you from having to talk to those cute high school girls and their older college cheerleader sisters…lol… bc they got you to try that casterboard thing and you pulled a muscle in your back and all those girls had to take turns rubbing your back to make it feel better…lol…

    see how that works?…

    So…just ignore what she says and be like ‘be at x at y time?’

    yes…

    I mean, I’m not really skeptical, I’m just seeing if that’s what you really mean.

    yes…lol…

    I’ve not tried being that unaccomadatingly in-charge much before, [you mean like an entitled alpha stud leading her to sex?…lol] and when I’ve tried to be I usually just get a polite demurral.

    that’s bc your value to her isn’t high enough…and you are likely pinging as beta orbiter = non-sexual… there’s the idea of congruence, too… that leads to the ‘surprise, i have a penis’ effect…

    I suppose in general I’m dancing around being very sexual [and how;s that working for you?…lol…] (bc she acts like a blushing violet a bit) [and that’s bad why exactly?…lol… = FI in play…bc she is no longer the prize and is reacting to you you] but probably if I pushed through that it’d be fine. [better than fine, you be getting some SEX!…lol] I remember I was drunk-ish texting a good catholic girl once – hot, Lebanese girl I worked with – and basically was just telling her how I had a huge dick and I was gonna do x to her with it and she was just like ‘oh my!’ and ‘go onnnn…’ in her replies. Top kek. This is one of those things where, if you have the balls to do something, you can likely get away with it.

    and if you follow it up properly, you get a bang…lol…

    “did you personalize this idea to ‘soaking’ HER?…lol”

    Nope. Thought about it but chickened out, ha.

    next time, you’ll know better… just try it to see what happens…how will you know where your boundaries used to be if you don’t push past them…lol…

    Even though she almost certainly would have said sorry but no?

    yes, see above about setting the frame…

    She really did seem to have her mind made up.

    lol…this is a girl we’re talking about, right?…

    Maybe I could have done something to change this earlier, but I’m not sure I coulda just been like ‘so anyways meet me there in 20’ at the tail end.

    no, not at the tail end,given how things went, but you can at least try (especially if you realize in situ that you are digging a hole…) but next time you will do that early… just part of the learning curve…

    Thanks again y’all. I’ll try to reject attempts by her to get me to come to things with other people present, like she’s angling for now, unless I get a serious vibe of ‘if these people approve of you it’s on.’

    so, you really are angling for that BF role?…lol… you could also go to those events and game the other girls there…lol…

    And I’ve time bridged a potential evening solo meetup. Maybe I’ll spike things a bit by doing some more aggressive texting while I’m amped cold approaching, then try to meet up in a few weeks.

    great plan… just go hands-on early and pull her sooner rather than later… at least TRY to pull her back to your place within the first 10-15 minutes…if not faster…not kidding…(but only if you WANT the bang…lol)

    good luck!

  47. Makes me cringe to look over ANYTHING I’ve written, really, but back from even my hardcore Aspie days (I think this FR is from two years ago or soemthing), this was an exchange that ended up leading to me fingerbanging the girl on the floor and making her come twice after a heavy makeout session and some other fooling around.

    Might’ve actually had sex with her if it wasn’t for good old dad, lol (major cockblock, got nervous I had a girl over so an hour or so into it, right as I opened the condom wrapper, he starts pounding on the door going “Softek, Softek, I need to talk to you, come out here, I need to ask you something,” and he wouldn’t stop or go away no matter what I said.

    Anyway, I knew the girl from a party a year or so ago, but never talked to her much. The major IOI for me was that she’d respond immediately to any text I sent. Like literally anything. Complete with emoticons and all that and coming off as really sweet and interested, etc. Also and while I met her in person she was very big on heavy eye contact with me while smiling, stuff like that.

    I kind of new she’d be DTF if I pushed for it, just had a feeling. I was at a breaking point here after years of incel with no relief AT ALL and I had it made up in my mind that this was going to happen no matter what.

    I just knew that she was into me and there had to be some way to hook up with her. My desperation forced me to see the IOI’s for what they were. I wanted to have sex but I was also scared to death of hooking up, which is why I wrote off IOI’s my whole life. I could’ve been king of the world in high school but my anxiety caused me to overlook IOI’s that even I could pick up on back then, despite my complete lack of social awareness.

    Anxiety just shut it down and wrote it off as “having sex isn’t safe, being with girls isn’t safe, so when you know a girl is really into you and wants to bang you, I’m going to give you a panic attack so you don’t get involved in dangerous shit like that.”

    Still dealing with that to an extent. It’s a big one. I think in one way or another this is the major reason EVERY guy has approach anxiety and trouble picking up women. They think it’s NOT SAFE in some way or another for them to do it.

    At the time I didn’t know about setting frame, just did it instinctively. Although I had been on RM for a while so maybe that soaked in, although I certainly couldn’t have described or explained it to anyone else. I could be less Aspie about it in the future, but I can see clearly now how had I played my cards right, set the frame in a less awkward/self deprecating way, and stuck to it instead of going Omega on her (too embarrassing to share all the BS I said later that completely killed the sexual attraction that was initially there: after she went home, I should’ve kept things short and sweet, she ended on a sexual note saying she was turned on about it, and that kicked in my desperation too hard, and I tried way too hard to hook up with her again, and pressure her more, instead of backing off and letting her chase me, but I just didn’t know better at the time)

    Anyway, here goes:

    ———–

    *after talking a bit about me being a virgin and just wanting to get out and meet some girls, her suggesting some places I could go and how she’s sure a lot of girls would be into me*

    Me: so I’ll throw it out there, I’m not interested in a relationship and even with friends with benefits I can’t say when I’d ever be available, I wouldn’t want anyone getting resentful if the other person wanted to stop or call things off

    but maybe we could get together sometime in the future, just the idea of it scares me to death but maybe just trying it one time could be good for both of us?

    Her: OK I have to ask…. was that intended for me or is that what you would tell a female that you meet one day?

    Me: Both 🙂

    Her: oh ok.
    Well…
    1) that is a good way to open up to a female and lay the truth on the table
    2) as for us, yeah maybe one day we could get together

    Me: all right cool 🙂

    I am very no strings attached, I can’t stand possessiveness

    will not put up with it

    so if you’d be okay going in knowing that and you’d still want to try it then maybe sometime we can work something out

    Her: LOL no Pinocchio for you huh?

    Me: no, it isn’t worth it

    Her: yes definitely we can work something out

    *pause for a while*

    Her: I was trying to find a “nervous” emoticon or something close to it but could not find one

    Me: It’ll be fun 🙂

    Her: yup it will be fun

    Me: as long as everything’s clear then I’m okay

    that’s really the main thing holding me back

    Her: it is all loud and clear, A OK

    Me: all right 🙂

    Her: you drive right?

    Me: Yes I do drive 🙂 are you doing anything right now?

    Her: besides chatting with you, I was online doing finances and paying my bills

    the joys of having bills….

    Me: well this is going to sound nuts, but I’m going to meet up with my friend in a few hours….

    Her: so where are you headed to?

    Me: going out to a diner
    gotta be there around 8
    do you want to come over for a little while?

    Her: to the diner?

    Me: no, to my house, before I have to head out

    Her: oh I probably will not make it there any time soon
    I am still in my jammies, been home all day

    Me: if you’ve been home all day it’s a good reason to get out 🙂

    Her: Yes a good reason to get out, but by the time I shower and get dressed and make it to your house it’ll be like 8

    Me: I think it’d be good now! I can’t even explain how nervous I am, trust me, I’m right with you

    but that’s why it’s a good idea

    just an hour and a half or so

    if you don’t have time to take a shower just get dressed and take one with me over here 🙂

    Her: But don’t you have to meet up with your friends later?
    Perhaps we can get together tomorrow

    Me: I am really pushing for tonight

    I’m too anxious

    this could be now or never, and I’m serious

    Her: Oh take a shower there… with you… you will never make it to the diner for sure

    Me: I’m gonna have to go, it’s for my mental health too 🙂

    I say come over and we’ll have some fun until 8, then I gotta go

    tick tock 🙂

    Her: LOL
    I think tomorrow may be best for us…. gives you time to be certain of this and make sure it is what you want…

    It’s taking me long to respond because my laptop keeps freezing up on me and not responding… for what ever reason

    Me: I don’t think I’ll do it tomorrow

    heat of the moment

    what’s gonna happen is I’m going to overthink it and then get freaked out

    this right now is a no strings attached one off thing, although depending on how it goes and whatever we might be able to do it again in the future

    but I’m feeling it right now

    Her: for real you think you’ll have different thoughts tomorrow?

    Me: yes

    I overthink things to death

    and like I told you I’ve never done this before

    I’ve never initiated a hookup and it scares the hell out of me

    if I wait I’m going to get too nervous to do it, it’s taken me this many years already to build up the courage

    Her: hmmm, now you have me thinking that I should go but I’m gonna wait til tomorrow
    I will gamble and hopefully you won’t change your mind

    Me: you should go now 🙂

    you’re thinking because you know you want to

    I’m scared as hell, it would be a relief if you didn’t come over

    but that’s why you should

    Her: yes i should go now, most likely because I do want to… but my gut is telling me to do it tomorrow

    Me: yes but I’m telling you to do it now 🙂

    trust me, I’m a doctor

    Her: LOL

    Dr. Softek

    Me: >:)

    Her: hmmm, well what if I tell you that I’m probably just as…or more…scared than you

    Me: I know you are

    that’s why I keep saying we should do it

    I have been messed up for a really long time now and I just want to have completely commitment free sex

    just enjoy it

    Her: you would make an awesome car salesman…. you are very convincing

    Me: look, the biggest anxiety I have is that I shut down emotionally, like if you were interested in me in terms of a relationship, I will shut down and most likely stop talking to you

    I just can’t handle that, it’s too much for me

    but if you’re willing to accept that, then I can let go of myself, I’m not really that anxious about sex

    it’s true that I’m a virgin, I’ve done other stuff with one girl but I’ve never actually had sex

    so tbh that does freak me out a little

    but I really want to do it

    Her: tomorrow

    Me: today!

    this is actually perfect right now

    6pm

    I have to go soon

    less time = better for anxiety, it’s like jumping into a cold pool

    but enough to have some fun

    Her: LOL

    Me: we both know we want to do it

    just for the sake of enjoying sex

    now’s the time

    Her: yes we both know we want to do it

    Me: come over

    I dare you 🙂

    Her: oh now you are daring me…hmmm

    Me: we aren’t going to live forever

    I’m also never going to be this young again and my dick isn’t going to be able to get as hard as it can at my age forever 🙂

    Her: LOL

    Me: come on come on

    let’s get this over with

    the ride’s started, time to hop on, it’s too late now

    seriously though get over here! Only an hour and a little bit left

    it won’t be a big deal once it’s over

    if we don’t do it we’re just going to think about what could’ve happened tonight

    Her: LOL but honestly I do think tomorrow will be better

    Me: no!

    that’s it

    I’ve made up my mind

    now or never

    my hands have been numb for the past however long it’s been, I’m so nervous

    think of it as an exercise in overcoming anxiety

    we can go back to our normal lives later

    that’s always going to be there

    an hour is still plenty of time

    Her: ok ok

    Me: 🙂

    Her: all right, I’ll see you soon

    We exchange details, e.g. how she’s gonna recognize me, what car she’s driving, etc.

    I end, after telling her what I’m wearing, “just incase anyone else is sitting on their porch and you go into their house with the wrong idea”

    Her: LOL that would be embarrassing

    ———

    And then she came over, we fooled around, dad came along, she went home afterwards, even then still on a high note because I re-calibrated by making a joke about it that she loved and went along with, then started talking about how she was turned on atm thinking about when we were fooling around, how horny she was, and I say some BS omega shit about well let’s wait until we see each other again, it’s not good to talk about this stuff if we’re not together physically (what the fuck Softek lol), or some BS like that, then mentioned that I had emotional issues or something and just went way overboard into hardcore cringe/fuck everything up mode.

    Anyway I completely dropped the ball but seeing how it all came together is pretty crazy. This is as good as ancient history to me now, I think it was a couple years ago.

    I forgot all about this. Especially feeling so whipped in this relationship right now that I’m scared to even LOOK at another girl anywhere, it’s like, god damn, I came through on this, Aspie and all. Like regardless of how I could’ve done better, I did end up getting her to come to my house and we hooked up, mission accomplished.

    I even set the frame from the beginning without even knowing it, just naturally because I knew I wanted commitment free sex, and to fully enjoy that I had to be upfront and make it clear what I wanted out of the relationship, and that it had to be on my terms or it wouldn’t happen.

    Looking at the freedom I had back then and comparing it to where I am now, it’s like, shit……if I really work hard on this stuff, I can do it. I can have options.

    I’ve generated them in the past when I didn’t even have ANY of my shit together, so that’s alive in me somewhere.

    Had I known what I know now, I probably could’ve kept that plate spinning long enough to get another FB, and I could be in a completely different situation now.

    But I am where I am because I am who I am. Still have things to discover and change. Anyway just wanted to share, pushed myself past the cringe because I think it might be valuable for other guys here to analyze, and even though it was a while ago, to get feedback on how to improve or change, etc.

    Also I did my best to edit names out but

    @ Rollo

    If you see anything in here that has any names or ID or anything, please delete it. I double and triple checked to make sure there was nothing in here but that still freaks me out, lol, just throwing that in for some assurance.

  48. @stuffinbox I can’t thank you enough for the kind words and the story of your exceptional friend.

    This project has been a labor of love, and I am grateful that you appreciate the work.

    Full disclosure…

    Completing “The Rational Male” audiobook represented the rebirth of my voice work after the hit and run accident. It became the milestone achievement… proving I would learn to breathe and sound in the ways I had mastered for the work I was born to do.

    I know I will constantly improve because I’m taking risks every day, which opens up more neurons in my brain. It’s challenging and exciting.

    I’m looking forward to future productions and can’t wait to see your comments on Audible and iTunes.

  49. @all

    the thing with indirect game is that a) it allows you a wider margin of error at the beginning and b) it allows you to CONTROL everything

    ‘direct’ game is good for when you know she has chosen you and you’re just gonna move it forward.

    i do want to talk about rolling in and kissing a girl tho.
    because there are situs where you can roll in and kiss a girl and it NOT being totally your passive value doing the trick.

    first, observe up above — it’s still following the mystery method. you’re still doing the same shit, just fast.

    a great example — you see a guy talking to a girl, you roll in WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT HER, look at the guy, slide your arm around her (over the shoulder not around the waist: it’s a subtle-as-fuck DQ), then tap the guy on the shoulder

    ‘hey i see you met my gf, man, what’s up?’

    THEN

    you look at her and ask ‘you havin’ a good time? you wanna go get some fresh air/go over here/blah blah’

    there’s a vid somewhere where Tyler talks about getting completely shut the fuck down by this INNUMERABLE TIMES. literally Tyler’s response was to throw a huge fit and say ‘LIAR, LIAR, YOU’RE A LIAR, SHE’S NOT YOUR GF.’ why? because that’s what he had to do to bust up the sheer force of this type of move. it’s a very strong DHV and sets a strong frame…..

    the effect is sorta like….

    https://45.media.tumblr.com/449420f232ec5ac3d4f76ac62457573b/tumblr_ntcikhNG1Z1qhmokto6_250.gif

    it’s so audacious that, if you do it RIGHT, everyone’s just like….’wtf?’

    keep in mind, it works PARTICULARLY well for me because i can literally move under the radar, swoop in, and then vary the ‘shoulder pat’ and instead push the guy a bit. i can get away with it because i’m shorter.

    keep in mind, if done correctly, this is indirect. your arm is over her like a friend’s would be. ya, you said she’s your gf, but if you do it right it could be that you’re just being nice and saving her an awkward situation (protector of loved ones DHV) and the way you ask the question pretty much puts that out there but you do it in a way that is ALL BENEATH THE SURFACE (huge DHV socially savvy).

    from here you can probably kiss her if she shows any interest….but look at everything that’s happened in a short amount of time!

    these kinds of gambits are money.

    a better way to think about indirect game is to just imagine movies.
    imagine how movies work. movies that girls actually watch.

    these are movies they have been watching since childhood.

    and then you need to use your brain to filter out the ‘art.’
    the ‘art’ part is like ‘the guy treats her like shit but IT’S FOR A GOOD REASON and it ONLY SEEMS LIKE HE DID THIS BAD THING’

    just take that part out and assume it happened and there was no ‘good reason.’

    like….

    you should be able to talk to a girl for a few minutes and begin constructing a reality that matches a reality that, for her, allows her to hook up with you and do everything you want her to do with you.

    to me, this is why indirect game is true game….once you get the hang of it it really is like a superpower in many ways.

    she WILL BE attracted to two basic facts: 1) you cannot be controlled (boundaries, strong frame, etc.) and 2) you can fuck her well.

    so just lay whatever fairytale matches her interpreting her attraction in a certain way.

    you want her to interpret you as the love of her life….can be done
    you want her to interpret you as a bad boy she just can’t quit…can be done
    you want her to think you’re the best she’s ever had….can also be done

    this is why women aren’t going to fix your inner shit. they just reflect what you put out.

  50. Good comment @Scray. Hopping over to the new thread, just wanted to give props. This stuff is helping me, you explain endstate mindsets well.

  51. Hi Rollo,

    You seem to have missed this post of mine regarding the possible translation of your books to my native language on the “Year One” page, so I copy it here. Can you please reply? Thanks!

    I’m a dedicated follower of the Rational Male blog for cca 1 year now and I’ve got your paperbacks as well. Your insights have completely changed my life… for the better, and I’ve directed several friends to your site for advice too. But, unfortunately, not all of them speaks english well enough to be able to read your articles.
    So I’m thinking about translating your books to my native language. I’m a good and experienced translator, I’ve translated professional texts as well as literature. I have MA in philosophy but I work in the IT industry now. I’m quite educated in psychology too.
    How could we start a private discussion about the possibility of translating your books to my native language and publishing it as an e-book, for example? (I don’t think it’d make sense to publish it in paperback form, as my language is spoken only by cca 15M people worldwide.)

    Regards,
    NoMoreMrNiceGuy

  52. I adore the book. You’redoing God’s work, Mr. Tomassi.

    I must admit, though, your narrator is shit. I’ve never been so frustrated listening to an audiobook before. He pauses in really awkward places and makes some sentences difficult to immediately understand. Throughout the entire audiobook, there were countless moments where I felt I was listening to a digital voice. That’s how bad it was. For those who think I’m just dumping on the guy, please listen in for yourself. What the FUCK were you thinking?

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