Changing Your Programming

tilting_at_windmills

Changing Your Programming

I mentioned in the first book that I am not a motivational speaker.

I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be their own self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not a Rollo Tomassi success story, but their own success stories.

That said, let me also add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will and determination. God willing, they can be masters of those circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions in which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s Hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

These are the last words from The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine. I wrote something similar in the first book too, but I’m quoting them here because they are just as important now as they were when I was writing them then. I’m not now nor have I ever been interested in creating a cult of Rollo. I’m not interested in creating better men, I’m interested in those men making themselves better men.

Descriptions and Prescriptions

You’ll have to forgive me, I wrote this part about a year ago, but I think it’s still relevant now. In part 4 of Preventative Medicine a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:

Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it, but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.

From my earliest posts at SoSuave (in 2004) I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.

I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine a PUA guru attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate that 60 year old man’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what another man’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior

Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?

Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.

Most men already suspect they know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.

My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.

It’s been noted before, my approach to Game / Red Pill awareness is descriptive, not prescriptive.

I’m humbled by the men who email me and let me know how something I’ve written or shined a light on for them has saved them from suicide or some particular hell they would’ve endured longer in. For the most part though I get email and comments from men who tell me that they have built better lives for themselves because a Red Pill awareness made their situations more intelligible. I don’t sell a program or a prescription because each man’s circumstance is different, his acculturation is different, his ethnicity, society, upbringing, body composition and mental faculties are all different.

But we are all men. If the Red Pill is anything it’s a consortium of men who relate their individual experiences about women, about themselves and about their circumstances in what’s now become a feminine-primary social order. As I’ve stated in the past, I’m humbled and flattered to be considered one of the pillars of Red Pill awareness, but most of what I write is the result of piecing together the related experiences of other men.

I didn’t create the Red Pill, I just describe that awareness in terms I think are intelligible. I connect dots, but much of those dots are presented to me by a collective of men who’ve had common experiences. If those dots don’t follow, if those dots would be better connected in another way, I expect the Men who make up Red Pill awareness to offer their new ideas in an open exchange, in a marketplace of ideas.

Sometimes that marketplace gets weighed down with disingenuous critics, trolls and attention seekers, but this is the price, I believe, is necessary to distill and test the strength of those ideas. Only in a crucible of open debate where all are encouraged to participate can those ideas be sussed out.

Men with questions don’t frighten me; men with no questions do.

Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous
The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere— everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from-it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people, find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.

From Nursing Power:

A handful of my male readers often ask why I don’t moderate comments, or that the message of Rational Male would be better served if I banned certain commenters. I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate. People who aren’t confident of the strength of their assertions or ideas, or are more concerned with profiting from the branding of those weak assertions than they are in truth, are the first to cry about the harshness of their critics and kill all dissent as well as all discourse about those assertions.

That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated; if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears – I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum. However, the second reason I don’t censor, ban users or delete comments is that I believe it’s useful to have critics (usually women or fem-men) provide the gallery with examples of exactly the mentality or dynamic I’m describing in an essay. With a fair amount of predictability, a blue pill male or an upset woman will just as often prove my point for me and serve as a model for what I’ve described.

I never intentionally try to make rubes out of the critics I know will chime in about something, but I will sometimes leave out certain considerations I may have already thought about something, knowing it will get picked up on by a critic. I do this on occasion because the I know that the “ah hah! I got him, he forgot about X,Y, Z” moment serves as a better teaching tool and confirms for me that a critic does in fact comprehend what I’m going on about.

Last week Roosh came out against the various tribes of Game such as it is. While I understand his intent I must disagree with his methods. A couple of weeks ago I got into a bit of political discourse with regard to how the Feminine Imperative and how Hypergamy influences social dynamics. That post generated a lot of conversation, but from it I made this statement:

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

As most of my readers know I have a great deal of respect for Roosh and I still do. Nothng is going to change that. I think time will tell what direction his push for Neomasculine philosophy truly goes in. As far as what he’s describing in that “new” doctrine there’s not much I disagree with. I’ll take issue with his anti-evolution, anti-evo psych stance. I’ll take issue with his want for some as yet undefined moralism; and not because I don’t think morality or reverence to a higher power shouldn’t be part of it, but rather because it pollutes and distorts open discourse.

I’m not an atheist, anyone who’s read my commentary on Dalrock’s site knows this. That said I don’t think there is a substitute for critical inquiry, and when that is stifled, that’s when we lean over into dogma.

From Moral to the Manosphere:

Putting angel’s or devil’s wings on observations hinders real understanding.

I say that not because I don’t think morality is important in the human experience, but because our interpretations of morality and justice are substantially influenced by the animalistic sides of our natures, and often more than we’re willing to admit to ourselves. Disassociating one’s self from an emotional reaction is difficult enough, but adding layers of moralism to an issue only convolutes a better grasp of breaking it down into its constituent parts. That said, I also understand that emotion and, by degree, a sense of moralism is also characteristic of the human experience, so there needs to be an accounting of this into interpretations of issues that are as complex as the ones debated in the manosphere.

Although I’m aware that observing a process will change it, it’s my practice  not to draw moralistic conclusions in any analysis I make because it adds bias where none is necessary. The problem is that what I (and others in the manosphere) propose is so raw it offends ego-invested sensibilities in people. Offense is really not my intent, but often enough it’s the expected result of dissecting cherished beliefs that seem to contribute to the well being of an individual.

There was a time I sat in a behavioral psychology class back in college. Behaviorism appealed to me because it was very nuts & bolts, not at all like the touchy-feely humanist schools of psychology. Behavior is the only reliable proof of motive. It was cause and effect, modify variables, and watch for behavior.

At one point I began to see that women are masters of operant conditioning – they had the natural reward 99% of men want, sex. Men’s behavior could be modified just by the prospect of sex, and they could also be influenced by negative reinforcement and punishment. It was one thing to make these observation, but quite another to express them in the classroom. Many of the more intelligent minds I dealt with then would adamantly refuse to recognize the truths that operant conditioning played. After I thought about it I understood that they were likewise motivated to deny what I thought was right in front of their faces.

I had connected some uncomfortable dots; dots that had the potential of making a man less desirable for having connected them. This was really the beginning of many more uncomfortable connections I would make later.

Roosh has tried to make a case that the Red Pill community (subred) has now reached critical mass. He sees it as inbred; a community of complainers – and in some instances I can understand that. Debate can often sound like complaining. However, what I get from Roosh now is a need for answers, it seems to me he’s looking for a plan of action. He wants something prescriptive for himself and other men to follow on with. I get it.

He’s still included Red Pill truths as being an important part of his new doctrine and I’d respect him for that, if not for the wholesale disownment of the consortium that’s been the testbed for those truths for so long. As I stated above, I think Neomasculinity may have some merit, I don’t disagree with about 90% of the manifesto Roosh went to great effort to put together. What I disagree with is how he’s initiated all of this. He does no favors to himself with casual dismissals of principles he knows are deeper than he wants to give credit to – in fact most are principles he influenced personally.

As for my part, I’m going to keep doing what I do and that’s making men aware of the world that’s been pulled over their eyes. I will likely have some strong disagreement with Roosh in the future, but as I’m fond of saying unplugging men from the matrix is dirty work. We’re both in the same family, and sometimes brothers will fight, and that’s OK.

I disagree with him that the Red Pill will cease to go on. It may be called something else, but it’s been around before he or I started writing about it. The “Red Pill”, like many other terms, is an abstraction; a place holder for an idea. Don’t like the Matrix movie references? Fine, but the truth is the truth and freely expressed ideas need words to describe them.

Maybe Neomasculinity is the prescription you need, but from what I can gather so far it’s a movement based on exclusion; not inclusion, not on a free exchange of ideas. Maybe the christianized Red Pill of Donalgraeme or Dalrock is a better prescription for you. Maybe you need the inspiration of a guy like Victor Pride and a better outlook on your physique.

Or maybe all you need is a truth and an awareness to help you lift yourself up. Yes, Red Pill awareness can be very depressing in the beginning, I’ve written several posts and book chapters dedicated to helping men come to terms with that, but ultimately it will be that awareness that becomes the catalyst for changing his life.

The Red Pill isn’t one size fits all, you have to tailor your own life with what it shows you.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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D. Horrenbrand
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I am also against any kind of censorship. And re the variety on the current MGTOW/TRP scene- it can be only for the better. Everyone should be able to choose the source of information that suits him best. We are all different, yet in a way – very similar.

Re the anger phase and complaining men – it might feel like that, because a lot of new faces arrived on the scene recently. The more free knowledge from various sources is available – the better for us, men.

Regards
__
Datson H.
https://redmalehummingbird.wordpress.com/

Water Cannon Boy
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Water Cannon Boy
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He stubbed his toe coming out the blocks with the Dr. Oz show.
Stay tuned.

zdr01dz
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zdr01dz
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Only in a crucible of open debate where all are encouraged to participate can those ideas be sussed out. Men with questions don’t frighten me; men with no questions do. The perfect segue. The man-o-sphere has provided me with valuable insights that I will pass on to my kids and use for the rest of my life. For that I’m eternally grateful. However to put it bluntly, and in line with what Roosh has recently said there is also some horseshit floating around that sounds good but doesn’t match up with reality. AF/BB does not accurately describe or predict female… Read more »

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[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated;

if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears –

I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum.

~Rollo Tomassi

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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I’m not interested in creating better men,
I’m interested in those men making themselves better men.

~Rollo Tomassi

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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Most men already suspect they
know what the keys are,
and most even know how to use them,
but what they really want is confirmation
that they actually have the keys.

~Rollo Tomassi

Water Cannon Boy
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Water Cannon Boy
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Re. Zdroidz- Most women don’t do those because of logistics. They can’t get to them or don’t have a way to.

nathanieldurgasingh
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I was anxiously awaiting this post since the fences were shaken with regards to Roosh and his “new found” ideology/movement. I’m newly unplugged (3 months in) and in that time period i’ve gravitated to the more profound writers (Illimitable Man, Dalrock and yourself to name a few) and also see the Red Pill as descriptive rather than prescriptive because as you mentioned many times, showing men the path but allowing them to create their trail is much more effective and authentic (in my opinion) than giving specific instructions on how to “be a better man”. I’m eternally grateful to have… Read more »

YaReally
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YaReally
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Haven’t read this yet, just dropping in to leave a note:

@Glenn
Left you a new message on the last thread, just want to make sure you don’t miss it.

Nathan
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Nathan
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Rollo,

This should be the opening paragraph to your books:

“At one point I began to see that women are masters of operant conditioning – they had the natural reward 99% of men want, sex. Men’s behavior could be modified just by the prospect of sex, and they could also be influenced by negative reinforcement and punishment… Recognize the truths that operant conditioning plays.”

zdr01dz
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zdr01dz
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Sometimes it’s written that women begin to lose sexual access to Alphas as they approach the wall. That is not true by a mile. Any frumpy, 30 something can get laid by a politician, sports star or Wall Street tycoon. What high mileage women lose is the ability to lock down a good man. Pictured below is 43 year old porn star Lisa Ann. She’s slept with hundreds of millionaire sports stars. Google her GQ article for the details. Almost any woman can do the same and there are plenty of pictures to prove it. I’ll be extra generous, forget… Read more »

nathanieldurgasingh
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Also, another interesting comment that came to mind was Robert Greene’s 48th Law “Assume Formlessness” where he basically said, “too much respect for other people’s wisdom will make you depreciate your own”. Additionally, Ralph Waldo Emerson mentioned in ‘Self Reliance’ that you basically have to rely on your own wisdom and be alive to your own circumstances and strategize whats necessary for YOU because you would never be able to think on your own if you just listen to the wisdom of others. In this, I see why you make the statements you do; you aren’t creating more Rollos but… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ Rollo
The CH thirst article is 100% accurate.
Women don’t value sexual attention as much as men value it.

And that’s where I think AF/BB loses it’s predictive ability.

Most women are not on a lifelong quest for short term sexual access to Alphas. Most women couldn’t care less. Obviously there are many women like Lisa Ann. But they are in the minority.

Water Cannon Boy
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Over twenty years in the business, so she started in her very early twenties if not before. Which would give her time to build up her numbers. And now that she’s 42, she has to get with 18 yr olds that she describes as naive. Sounds just like the cougars who rationalize that men actual do prefer older women.
You kinda refuted your own point.

Jack Treevale
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Rollo, after witnessing your interaction with Karen Straughan in the RedPill subreddit, I can’t help but feel like you’re soothing away a lot of Roosh’ actions to alleviate some pressing cognitive dissonance. While you were quite untrusting and aggressive towards her for merely associating with certain MRA figures and for a video in which she allegedly throws TRP under a bus in about 5 words (which was clearly a sarcastic bit on the video, I don’t see how you didn’t get that), you grant Roosh a nearly unconditional trust that I not only think is misplaced and undeserved, but also… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ Water Cannon Boy
Lisa Ann has no problem giving away NSA sex to men of any age.

To you and me she might be skanky. But there are always plenty of top tier men who think otherwise. As long as it’s free there will be plenty of takers.

fatmanjudo
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When you meet the Budda on the road – kill him.

ASF
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This seems reasonable Rollo. I’m not sure that Roosh’s statement re the red pill needed to be taken as personally as it was, but whatever. You provide a good theoretical underpinning for men who are plugged in, but ultimately the game is played in the field not at the keyboard. To be successful with women, or with many other things, it is far more important to do than to think (about doing). The trap that many men fall into is in excessive consumption of information. Obviously this is not your fault, but I do believe it is a major issue… Read more »

Atticus
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Rollo, What you’ve done for me is explain the unexplainable. Starting with almost nothing, building a ten figure fortune, four outstanding intelligent, athletic kids, by all measures an outstanding life…then BAM!…I’m not happy and divorce. I was despondent. Then somehow I found tRM. As intelligent as I am about so many things, I was a moron about women. I never thought men and women were different. Honest to God I thought we were the same except they got emotional on their period. Now life is fun. I was never a people watcher, other people were just around. Now I truly… Read more »

zdr01dz
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AF/BB layered over a strong motherhood instinct predicts most commonly observed female behavior.
http://i.imgur.com/HXOSmJl.jpg

Without a strong motherhood instinct it makes sense that women should be trawling the internet for Alpha sex in the way AF/BB predicts.

Women know that pregnancy is an immediate and permanent hit to their SMV and yet they all want to do it. That suggests the possibility that the motherhood instinct is more powerful than AF/BB.

Just Saying
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The key is NSA – while top-tier men can have their pick of much younger women, there tends to be risks, of law-suits, money-diggers, and many other risks. But with someone like LA you get to blow your load and go about your business – which has an attraction. Sure you are settling for low-value, but the risks are correspondingly low. That is why it’s always best to be high, but not too-high when it comes to being an AMOG. This past week there was a LOT of graduations in this area, and a lot of partying, which I partook… Read more »

walawala
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walawala
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Defining success in Game is a personal mission and learning. My success may not be another guy’s success. For me success is a moving target: banging tons of chicks…ok, done that…avoiding crazy women….ok now I know the symptoms…gaining more confidence….ok success breeds more success and confidence. Adopting the Red Pill is a process not a goal…game is a tool for helping to become a better man. My own journey mirrors many of your readers’ and while we may come to the Red Pill for similar reasons, the prescription and dosage may be different depending on one’s personal circumstances and history.… Read more »

redlight
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@zdr01dz

Are you saying, in effect:

“Commonly observed behavior indicates women are not strongly interested in short-term sexual access.
1) Most women don’t cheat on their partners.
2) Most single women don’t search for casual sex although this is readily available.”

In addition, are you suggesting that when women might be interested in short-term sexual access, they respond about the same to Alphas as to Betas?

zdr01dz
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@Rollo
what you’re missing is that motherhood instinct is part of BB

I know what you are saying. I’m saying it appears to be 3 complementary instincts.

Alpha Fucks = sex focus
Beta Bucks = resource focus
Motherhood = child focus

In theory child focus fits into Alpha (good genes) as well as it fits into Beta (good provisioning). But Motherhood is actually it’s own, powerful instinct.

The motherhood instinct is what drives women to take care of helpless animals and Wounded Warriors. This instinct is powerful and it defines many women’s lives.
http://i.imgur.com/i9pG1Yb.jpg

zdr01dz
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@ redlight
In addition, are you suggesting that when women might be interested in short-term sexual access, they respond about the same to Alphas as to Betas?

As a short not particularly attractive guy I’m not saying that. By a wide margin women find Alphas more attractive and treat them with much greater deference. Women desire Alphas the most. No doubt about it.

StringsofCoins
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StringsofCoins
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Very good post right now. There is simply no one else who compresses so much information into such space. I generally dislike this new push towards monetization of the manosphere but I have nothing against men taking the time to compact and explain so much knowledge that all men should have into a book. And then selling their work.

And there is good information in this post. Communication is your best talent. Sub communication.

zdr01dz
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Beta Bucks = Hand over your loot.
Motherhood = How can I help?

Beta Bucks is defined by taking. Motherhood is defined by giving. This indicates that Beta Bucks and Motherhood are separate instincts.

redlight
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“Women desire Alphas the most. No doubt about it.” What AF means is that when women do fuck (that is have sex for the purpose of fucking instead of another agenda) they tend to fuck Alphas Thus AFBB is true. You observe that fucking, and in particular the fucking of Alphas, is not as prevalent as it could be if women made this a priority. In a global survey nearly 80% of women said they’d rather have more money than power or sex in their lives, and further analysis determined the money was focused on security. The short answer is… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@zdr01dz

Beta Bucks = Hand over your loot.
Motherhood = How can I help?

No.

Quoth my mother, “One day I’m going to get old and need you to take care of me.”

Delayed BB is still BB. You are BB for every woman in your life that you allow yourself to be, including your own mother. Just because she’s playing the long game doesn’t mean she isn’t still playing the game.

Tam the Bam
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Atticus,“But his recent stuff is dark. He’s realizing that banging 1000 chicks is a waste of time. Where to go now? What’s the fuckin plan?”

I’m almost willing to lay odds that he’ll eventually (after a bit of thrashing about to no effect) end up getting deep into Religion, and going the full-on Mad Mullah bit with us all. I can almost smellit.

zdr01dz
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@ Sun Wukong Quoth my mother, “One day I’m going to get old and need you to take care of me.” What you just described was a manifestation of BB. What does a woman get from saving stray kittens? That behavior offers no ROI. Every aspect of Beta Bucks is about taking. But from day 1 Motherhood is about giving. 1) Immediate and permanent hit to SMV. 2) Tens of thousands of hours of work. 3) Massive financial costs. 4) Lifelong worry and stress. Despite these costs most women have an overwhelming urge to have children. BTW I’m not white… Read more »

FuriousFerret
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“Commonly observed behavior indicates women are not strongly interested in short-term sexual access to Alphas. 1) Most women don’t cheat on their partners with Alphas. 2) Most single women don’t search out top Alphas for casual sex although this is readily available. This disconnect between AF/BB theory and female behavior does not support the AF portion of AF/BB. Although it’s self evident that women (on average) treat men of high status with much greater regard and believe them to possess high sexual attractiveness in most cases their behavior and choices are not predicted by this hypothesis. ” When people refer… Read more »

redlight
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In Quebec a woman stopped her car on a highway, to help ducklings cross the road. Sadly a motorcycle crashed into the car, killing two (people, the ducklings were fine). The woman was sentenced to 90 days in jail.

redlight
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redlight
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Now what you will not read is:

“In Quebec a woman stopped her car on a highway, to help men cross the road …”

zdr01dz
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@ redlight
The short answer is they don’t have much testosterone.

Most women seem to want sex 2 to 3 times per week. Unless a woman is absolutely hideous she can get sex from a new Alpha every time. Some women like Lisa Ann do exactly that. Most don’t seem to care.

That’s not to say women don’t find handsome, Alphas sexually attractive. But that is smothered by a crosscurrent of other instincts.

As Rollo says, “watch what women do.”

zdr01dz
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@ Rollo
I’ve rescued 11 greyhounds, what does that say about my mothering instinct?

You’ve got one.

‘Reality’ Doug
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@zdr01dz I suspect you are giving women too much credit at getting casual sex. I suppose women less than HB9 or over 24 are usually frustrated, and what HB 9 or 10 has self-esteem? An experienced porn star can do things most women can’t and is mentally where most women can’t ever be. I have heard wall women (early 30s) declare that they ‘won’t settle’. Women are ridiculously picky for casual sex (the alpha fux for sperm), more than for fake contractual sex. I have seen women with the look of ‘available for marriage’, much more approachable and friendly, actively… Read more »

Mark Minter
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Hello all, Since I last commented in the previous post a schism has occurred in my new community GeoMascilinity. Some are referring to it as the Gunter Affair. As I said in my previous post that we were growing and we had issued an invitation to Quing from Ghangzou to participate with the community (Well, actually the community consisted of Me, Gunter from Leipzig, and Boris from Voronzeh) in our forum (well actually we meet on Google hangouts as we actually don’t actually have a forum or a website). To our surprise when “Quing” turned on their webcam to join… Read more »

‘Reality’ Doug
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@zdr01dz Motherhood is training for betahood, since it is left uncorrected by fatherhood. A real man is superior to his mother.

redlight
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@droid

“Most women seem to want sex 2 to 3 times per week” but “watch what women do.”

do unattached women, on average, have sex 2 or 3 times per week? No. You proved the point.

Glenn
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Glenn
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@ String – Still no crotch bangle updates? @Ya – Thanks for the thoughtful response. It’s funny, I’m having a hard time being a beginner and your direct good advice was hard for me to take without being defensive, but I don’t give a shit about all that. I want to thrive and I’ve been foundering. I’ve been at this for 2.5 years now and much of the emotional angst has come and gone – still not pleasant, but I’m currently in a good place. What is causing my current consternation is seeing so clearly how fucked up my motivations… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ FuriousFerret
For the ones that lets themselves go and most girls that are ugly are simply lazy, they probably have AF/BB embedded in their DNA too but it’s out of reach for them to actualize.

http://i.imgur.com/O7q2YVm.jpg

You are substantially incorrect. Guess whose son this is? I’ll give you a hint he’s Austrian and lifts weights.

Fred Flange, VicePope
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Fred Flange, VicePope
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I was just thinking that myself viewing this food fight from the sidelines: I submit that ol’ Roosh has some Eastern Orthodox in him still. Evidenced by his repeated hostility to birth control and touting a pro-life stance. Which in itself is a position he is free to assert, and I am just noting the stance not debating it. But it always seemed off-key to me: if you’re PUA trying to get in your Alpha Fucks, don’t you WANT women using birth control and taking precautions yourself? Don’t you WANT the government paying for it? Or do you want to… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ Reality’ Doug
I suspect you are giving women too much credit at getting casual sex. I suppose women less than HB9 or over 24 are usually frustrated, and what HB 9 or 10 has self-esteem?

That is not consistent with observed reality. I suggest you look at the photo of Schwarzenegger’s son and mistress.

Unattractive women have a hard time locking down men. No doubt about it. But they can give away sex all day long. No problem, endless line of takers.

FuriousFerret
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“You are substantially incorrect. Guess whose son this is? I’ll give you a hint he’s Austrian and lifts weights.”

LOL. She didn’t always look that bad brah. She probably was thick and juicy 18 years ago.

Plus it’s Arnold. The man probably sweats Testosterone. Probably banging anything that was remotely attractive back in the day.

Also it’s proof that God was looking out for us. Have seen his beta Kennedy spawn? Arnoldo is the true heir to the throne.

zdr01dz
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@ redlight
“Most women seem to want sex 2 to 3 times per week” but “watch what women do.”

do unattached women, on average, have sex 2 or 3 times per week? No. You proved the point.

You might not realize it but you just wrote something very profound about the nature of women.

Partnered women want different things than single women.

Driver
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Driver
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Some good stuff here. I often will give younger men some similar advice. I compare the red pill (or this way of life) with being an ice cutter. A man is out there with this knowledge (called the red pill or whatever we’re calling it) and he’s cutting out his own path – through the ice (life).

He’s not going to follow another cutter…he is his own ice cutter. It’s his own path and he has to cut it.

zdr01dz
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@ Rollo Tomassi
you should really try some of your theories out on Roosh’s most recent post.

I saw Roosh’s last post and I sensed wavering, hehe. But honestly I don’t think my ideas will go over well in the man-o-sphere. I know I’m correct and over the long run market fundamentals drive everything. I can’t be the first person to notice that Motherhood is a strong and independent instinct in females.

http://i.imgur.com/fklLYwH.jpg

redlight
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@droid

“Partnered women want different things than single women”

since 1 out of 5 marriages are sexless (less than 10 times a year) are you saying that partnered women want less sex than single women, or more sex than single women?

Mr T
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Mr T
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6JetX9y9n4

Roosh in 20 years

redlight
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redlight
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@droid

“I can’t be the first person to notice that Motherhood is a strong and independent instinct in females”

a given in the manoshere is men -> women -> children

see, for example:

http://illimitablemen.com/understanding-the-red-pill/red-pill-constitution/

“12.) – Women love pragmatically and have no capacity to love unconditionally for romantic partners, only their children. This is a behaviour governed by an effect known as Briffault’s Law. Men can love women unconditionally by outcome of significant personal investment into her. There is a hierarchy of love: Men > Women > Children”

so you might be the last person, so far, to notice this in the “man-o-sphere”

DeNihilist
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Pretty plain to me. Roosh has found this Guy – http://www.osho.com/

Osho stated that men, if truly and watchfully filled their sexual desires, then by the age of 42, they would drop sex and move up (as in the chakras, the sex center being the most base). Seems Roosh has discovered this.

zdr01dz
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@ redlight
since 1 out of 5 marriages are sexless (less than 10 times a year) are you saying that partnered women want less sex than single women, or more sex than single women?

If a woman doesn’t want sex from her husband that could mean many things. However these are the first factors that come to mind.

1) Obesity
2) Deep seated, mutual hatred
3) Crazy bitch
4) Small dick

DeNihilist
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Minter, Geo-gold! good laugh!

redlight
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@droid

nice attempt to deflect, but you still need to answer the question, which is:

“since 1 out of 5 marriages are sexless (less than 10 times a year) are you saying that partnered women want less sex than single women, or more sex than single women?”

insanitybytes22
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Don’t bite my head off Tomassi, but I suspect that is precisely what Roosh is doing, trying to change his programming. One problem with red pills is that there is so much hostility towards women and yet so many of you seek relationships. Not unlike battered women, you will pull towards yourself what you seek, even sub-consciously. If you perceive all women as shallow, vain, sex objects, that is what you will attract. If you believe we are incapable of empathy and love, you will be with women incapable of empathy and love. That is the bitterest pill of all… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ redlight
Que?

Somebody would have to do a study and then look at the data.

My guess is that on average married women have more sex than single women.

redlight
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@insanity On man, oh man. wait, sorry Oh woman, oh woman wtf are you not posting on rooshv. We are all wating. And today, he serves up the ball to you. “Do Women Improve The Lives Of Men?” he asks Can’t you comment on this? Can you improve the Comment LIves of Men? He depressingly says “Sadly, we live in a time where women don’t know how to provide real value to men or simply don’t want to. If we can agree that a modern woman doesn’t improve a man’s life then we’re not far off from concluding that they… Read more »

redlight
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@droid

“…something very profound about the nature of women.
Partnered women want different things than single women.”

but now:

“Somebody would have to do a study and then look at the data”

okay, now back to your discovery of Motherhood, and we will leave how they became Mothers to study

zdr01dz
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Uh oh… Before this turns into a free-for-all I just want to say I’m a man of peace. I like all you guys, even the guys I razz. I simply like to debate ideas.

Before this gets hot please keep this in mind. (ducking)

Fred Flange, VicePope
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Fred Flange, VicePope
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Dear Mz. Insanity: Thanks for shaming. You will get your head bit off here because you misapprehend how civilized guys process their anger without shooting things. One way is to bitch at the unfairness of it all, yes. Some men never get past that phase: “whaah I wuz a SNAG (sensitive new age guy), then a Nice Guy, I wuz told to Just Be Yourself. I tell it to every girl OVER and OVER and OVER . Who won’t they love me for ME like I was promised?” Not realizing that it was the social programming that lied to them,… Read more »

Glenn
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Glenn
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@Insanity – I finally get it, lol, it’s so basic that I just couldn’t see it. All men are hostile towards women these days, don’t you get it? We’ve had it with masculinity, men, fathers and boys being denigrated and shamed 24/7 nonstop in our culture.We’ve had it with your ridiculous ideas about equality and your carping and whining – we gave you equality, now shut the fuck up. Really. That’s all you get, you don’t get to tell men how to behave. Ever – unless I am the guy you are fucking. Red Pill men are simply unafraid to… Read more »

zdr01dz
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Glenn
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Glenn
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@Zdroidz – I have been talking about the global memeplex for a year on this site, at least 4-5 times and nobody has bitten. The video you presented is a very simple presentation of the memeplex, as other institutions and technologies are a big part of it. Books, schools, newsmedia, religion, entertainment – social media is merely a medium. An amazing one that allows for tremendous scaling and interconnectivity (or approaches being “scale free”), but still it’s just that. We live in a world where one group of people (omigosh, they are all left of center – I’m talking about… Read more »

CaveClown
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I thought it was odd the way Roosh started the Neomasculine stuff. But, I’ll use from it what works for me, and discard the rest. Just like I do with Roosh’s other stuff, Rollo’s, Roissy’s, Dalrock’s, Victor Pride’s, Mike Cernovich’s, McQueen’s, Vox’s, and the various other sites I peruse. I’m not a follower. I’m not a fan boy for any of these men. I absolutely respect and appreciate their work, no doubts it has given me the knowledge to improve my life …but I question everything I read. “Is what ‘whomever’ just wrote correct? Does it match what I have… Read more »

insanitybytes22
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“Dear Mz. Insanity: Thanks for shaming.” No only is that not my intention, I haven’t got the power to shame anybody. If you have shame, don’t look at me, I didn’t tell you to pick up that bag of rocks. “Do like DragonFly girl and go suck a pile of dicks.” Precisely my point. Everyday you reveal what you really think of women, but not just women, happily married submissive women who actually love men. We bad because we don’t validate your own reality for you and reaffirm your perception of all women. Like I said, you’re more invested in… Read more »

CaveClown
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Rollo,

To be specific, I appreciate the fact that I can get paperback copies of your book.

zdr01dz
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@ Glenn
I have been talking about the global memeplex for a year on this site, at least 4-5 times and nobody has bitten.

memeplex, interesting. I’ll google it.

trackback

[…] Rollo was involved in this matter to some degree, as he has written a post in response to what has been going on. What interests me about that post is not the commentary about […]

Bluepillprofessor
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>Commonly observed behavior indicates women are not strongly interested in short-term sexual access to Alphas. First, not only does evidence of absence not imply absence of evidence there is hardly an absence of evidence and your evidence of absence would require women to actively seek out fucks and approach rather than let it “just happen.” Are you aware of the ways of men and women? Second, just because women don’t seek out extra-pair couplings in every case doesn’t mean they don’t do it a fuck ton lot- especially when they are approached by an AF. Third, they clearly tailor their… Read more »

Neguy
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Neguy
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Well, Rollo. I agree awareness is a big part of it. Here’s one for you: do you believe mental illness is an evolutionary adaptation? I mention this because every time I find that a woman gives me the tingles, I discover she’s mentally ill (BPD girl or other). Just as the red pill says “dark triad” is catnip to a women, is BPD or other mental illness catnip to men? Call me crazy but it happened again. I approached this girl, went out with her, said to myself, “I can’t explain it, but there’s something about this chick I like.”… Read more »

rogerrrrrr
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rogerrrrrr
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zdr01dz, I’ll just say what everyone else wants to. Please stop posting so much! And look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

zdr01dz
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@ Rollo Because it ties the concept together in one summation here is my Roosh post. Women offer value that is easy to objectively demonstrate. AF/BB tells a portion of the story but it doesn’t include the strongest instinct driving female behavior. Alpha Fucks = sex focus Beta Bucks = resource focus Motherhood Instinct = care focus Beta Bucks and Motherhood are distinct and separate instincts that move in opposite directions. Every aspect of Beta Bucks is about rewards and taking. On the other hand motherhood is rooted in selfless giving. The following are a few of the costs involved… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ rogerrrrrr
zdr01dz, I’ll just say what everyone else wants to. Please stop posting so much! And look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

rogerrrrrr I’d like to offer you a heartfelt apology. But I’m afraid it wouldn’t mean shit. Go fuck yourself.

Glenn
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Glenn
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@Insanity – Listen you petulant, mewling quim (thanks for bringing that word back, Rollo). You are the one barging in here telling us how fucked up we all are. Of course I loathe you for doing so, as you exemplify the modern entitled, vitriolic, dimwitted women so well (even though you criticize feminism). I mean, who in the fuck do you think you are barging in here and shitting on all of us? Why do you think you have the standing here to even be taken seriously? But hey, I’ll bite. Why does it bother you so much that we… Read more »

kfg
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@zdr01dz: ” I can’t be the first person to notice that Motherhood is a strong and independent instinct in females.” You aren’t even the first to say it here. I’ll repeat one of my maxims, first stated decades ago: It’s babies all the way down. The point is fundamental to biology. AF/BB derives from that, as do politics, the design of your house and even the design of your car (especially so if you own a late model pickup with a bed so short it’s virtually useless as a pickup. Chicks dig the pickup with seating for 2.4 kids in… Read more »

Bluepillprofessor
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>The outright hostility and anger that I have met at so many red pill sites is evidence of that.

Hah! Try posting anything less than women are mistresses of the universe and special flowers in any MSM discussion group or even your own personal FB feed. The name insanity is no shit- you are projecting so hard your reflection is turning off sensors on the International Space Station.

Dalrock explained it this week- if you can’t feel the current, you’ve already been swept away.

insanitybytes22
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“But hey, I’ll bite. Why does it bother you so much that we see through the lies of romantic and courtly love, and that we as men are far too idealistic about love than is good for us?” Because you validate and legitimize what every man hating feminist has ever said about you, because you make me ashamed to say I love men, and because your hatred and ugliness makes the world a lousy place to live. I could care less what you say about women. It’s what you insist upon saying about your own idiotic selves that depresses the… Read more »

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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What a great example of holding frame while speaking plainly. Your weekend comment on the previous post and now this. I would definitely fear getting into a social battle of wits with you Rollo.

kfg
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kfg
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“The outright hostility and anger that I have met at so many red pill sites . . .”

I sense a common denominator. I wonder what it could be?

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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It’s what you insist upon saying about your own idiotic selves that depresses the hell out of me.

If it’s not suicidal depression, clearly we’ve not pushed hard enough. C’mon guys, you can do better.

‘Reality’ Doug
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I agree with @rogerrrrr, that @zee droid is posting too much chaff, but he is being feed religiously. Why do you guys do that? zdroidz has the info to believe or not as he will. If a troll, he won’t show that he gets it. If a fool, he won’t get it. Elevating mommy is elevating all women. I also agree with Rollo’s open policy without incongruence. In short, your own fucking life is your mission, gents. That chick with Arnold is one…just wow. Maybe Arnold lost his alpha status, fell in love, who knows? Arnold seems to be an… Read more »

Jeremy
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I wouldn’t suggest there’s a contest, after all, we have laws of power for that. Not that your words don’t stand on their own.

zdr01dz
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@ kfg
The fact that you can even pose the issue as you do is indicative that you don’t have a very clear idea of what’s going on around you.

Maybe you’ve got a good handle on things. But many if not most people seem to equate BB with Motherhood. They’re not the same instinct. They move in polar opposite directions. BB is about taking. Motherhood is about giving. The fact that those two instincts are separate changes the popular interpretation.

Congratulations if you already understood that.

DeNihilist
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kfg – not only does the pick up have seating for 2.4 kids, but it hauls shit, hay, garbage, whatever the fuck we put into it, without complaint.

Seems pick-ups are male.

zdr01dz
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@ Rollo Tomassi when you consider the fact that increasingly more women postpone having children till far past their best fertility window in favor of pursuing personal goals (or simple Sandbergian priorities) indicates that this motherhood instinct isn’t nearly as influential as you might think. You are correct that the world is changing and in many ways for the worse. When you and I were kids obesity was rare but today it’s out of control. The explanation for that and other problems like abortion is simple. Most of our instincts evolved to function optimally in a primitive environment. Anything that… Read more »

Glenn
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@Insanity – So what bothers you about men seeing through romantic/courtly love and chivalry is that it confirms what man hating feminists say about men, makes you feel bad about loving men and that I make the world a lousy place to live with my hatred and ugliness? REALLY? Is that a serious and reasoned answer to my question? Or is it you own hatred spraying out at me in a spasm? Do you have any self-awareness whatsoever? So, what do you think your ugliness and nastiness here says about you and women? Have you ever once taken a close… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“Maybe you’ve got a good handle on things.”

As a young man I found it instructive to watch a mother eat her newborn babies. Your ideas about (chorus of angels) Motherhood are not congruent with reality.

There is rather more to it than is dreamt of in your philosophy.

DeNihilist
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R-Doug, she was there, he was horny – Bang!

Like the 40 something porn star banging the young sports pro’s, she is there, she is available – Bang!

I may get harder and have a stronger cum jet for a HB8 then a HB6, but I will still Bang an HB6.

Men are built to fuck.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Reboot

zdr01dz
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zdr01dz
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@ Rollo Tomassi The reason there is any focus on resources is to ensure the long-term security of parental investment. The reason there is a sex focus is to secure the best genetic potential. If you want to call that mothering instincts, fine, but in light of unfettered Hypergamy that instinct gets sublimated in terms of optimizing it. No doubt things are changing but in my environment I still see lots of motherhood. Maybe 100 years ago I would have seen a lot more. But I still see plenty of little girls holding baby dolls and chubby moms pushing strollers… Read more »

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