I thought this was an interesting comment from CaveClown from a few posts ago. Needless to say the commentariat has increased in the last 6 months and I wanted to air this out rather than have it buried five pages deep:
Rollo, question if you have time.
After unsuccessfully searching the archives, and having read your new book, i wonder if you have a post that further explains:
1. Why a “good girl” would skip the party years.
2. Why that good girl would become an early consolidator, and settle for a beta provider.
I understand that the “good girl” persona is just an attempt at seduction through differentiating herself from the “sluts”
I also understand that the “promise” of dropping the good girl act ‘for him’ is what snags the beta. The promise of her “sexual best” and all. (which is why women that do ride the carousel go “born again” later, no?)
At first glance, it seems like a solid strategy for hypergamy. If she can sell herself as virtuous, pure, and virginal, then she should have higher SMV.
Then why settle for a beta?
I’m trying to reconcile the “good girl” persona, and the manosphere trope about marrying a virgin. Seems a lot of men think that “if I could just find a virgin” things would be ok for them. (which is just a variation of blue pill/soul mate stuff)
I detailed a bit of the first question in Making Up For Missing Out and Good Girls Do. It’s important to make the distinction between a ‘good girl’ in that she’s nominally following the old-set-of-books traditional social contract, and the Good Girl strategy I went into in the latter post.
Bear in mind, no woman actually “skips” the Party Years. She may participate to greater or lesser degree in the opportunities those years open up to her, but she’s still keenly aware of those opportunities and realizes the window for them closes as her beauty and fertility fade. She sees her girlfriends, maybe sisters, indulge those opportunities, or she may live them vicariously through media that panders to them, but regardless, she’s feeling the pull of knowing she could potentially realize them.
One of my best friends married his first wife very early – him 21, and her 19. The guy was very Alpha (military), but had the White Knight script firmly coded into him courtesy of his Blue Pill conditioning. He did everything by the old set of books and knew he wanted to marry her after they’d been together for about eight months. He wasn’t her first lay, but she didn’t have more than 1 previous boyfriend, so while not a virgin she hadn’t been on the proverbial carousel for long at all.
They had three kids, early and out of the gate right after they married. She ‘played house’ well enough all through her 20’s while her sisters and girlfriends had their Party Years and urged her to come along for their GNOs. Once their youngest was old enough to be self-sufficient she started joining them. By the time she was 33 the marriage was over because she’d decided to follow the making up for missing out dynamic. She ended up cheating on him and then doing her version of the Wild Oats Project.
Brides Alpha Widows
There’s a wishful contingent of guys in the ‘sphere who think finding a young virgin bride before the world’s corrupted her pure soul is (or at least should be) a tenable goal. I understand the want and logic behind that, but even with a virgin bride there is no insulation from the sexual marketplace or the realities women experience as they mature.
By all measure this guy’s wife was as close to that ideal as was practical. He’s also one of more than a dozen men I’ve known who’s “good Christian wives” detonated their marriages in a similar fashion. Generally all went along with the divorce-porn fantasies after their dutiful husbands had become boring Betas in their esteem.
2. Why [would] that good girl would become an early consolidator, and settle for a beta provider.
Religious conviction, LSE (low self esteem), definitely cultural or economic motivations, a fear of men in general leading to security issues. You also have to consider the likelihood that the guy she settles on early is possibly the most Alpha guy she’s ever experienced.
Of the 40+ women I’ve had in my sexual past, two were virgins. Both of these women sought me out on Face Book 15-20 years after we’d went our separate ways. They are definitely not the same girls I knew back then, but I think this is an interesting illustration of a larger dynamic. Then and now, both of these girls surprised me with their attachment to me – I think that’s part of a bond you make with a woman when you’re her first.
It’s the “never forget your first” dynamic. There’s a presumption that any guy a “good girl” grants access to her pussy must be a top tier man to qualify for it. This is an ingrained psychological schema for women with the self perception of being a “good girl”.
So she consolidates on what she perceives was Alpha for her at 18. That perception is markedly different from what she’ll perceive as Alpha at 29, right as she enters her Epiphany Phase. If you read back through the Preventive Medicine series (or the book), I specifically outline a phase on women maturation timeline called the Break Phase. This is generally around the late teens (17-19) and I noted it in particular because it’s a moment in a young man’s life when his Blue Pill idealism is most commonly first tested.
The flip side of the Break Phase for women is the “never forget your first” dynamic conflicting with the opportunities her rapidly approaching peak SMV phase present to her. There may be an emotional investment on her part with a man she up to that point esteemed as the most Alpha man she was likely to ever pair with.
The Jig is Up
The danger inherent in these arrangements is that both young men and women make life-altering decisions based on their adolescent social skill set – not what will be their (hopefully) matured adult social skill set based on their experiences and acculturation. Thus you have the common situation my now-divorced friend experienced. I say common because one of the most frequent situations I get asked advice about from divorced men in their mid 30’s to early 40’s is how to initiate Game and wisely use their new Red Pill awareness after having been married since 23 or so.
For the most part they’re still confused how the woman who’d found them so Alpha at that age could toss off all of the relational equity he’d thought he’d earned with her and leave him for the ‘douchebags’ she’d always claimed to hate. What they don’t (or didn’t) realize is the root level resentment they’re experiencing with a woman they may have been married to for 15 years. That resentment stems from coming to terms with their Hypergamous filtering having been ‘fooled’ all those years ago; and the crush loss of not having been able to capitalize on the opportunities of those years.
It’s not that she’d settled for what she thought was a Beta in her early twenties, it’s that he was what she thought was Alpha then, but learned later that he wasn’t. This is the risk inherent to Hypergamy – that a woman might miss out on more optimal sexual selection choices while still in her peak SMV phase and able to choose from the broadest pool.
It’s almost a reversal of women who follow the Sandberg plan of Hypergamy and make disclaimers of how different they are now from how they used to be in college. The sentiment is still the same, but the roles are reversed – she’s different now from how she used to be because she (thinks) she has a better grasp of what is Alpha now and he ain’t it.
If there’s a silver lining to this it’s that this post-marriage Epiphany Phase generally happens earlier in a man’s life. If he’s made a lot of his potential up to then, and the divorce wasn’t too devastating, he’s in a far better position as far as life stage is concerned than the Beta guy a woman settles for at 29 after her Party Years. That fellow gets the Beta boot in his 50s and it’s a tall order to recover and have a Red Pill awakening.