Children of Men

david

In last week’s comment thread, we were linked to a study that purported cuckoldry is far rarer than previously suspected. While I and many others are skeptical of the methodology of the findings I think it’s far more telling about the state of the Feminine Imperative that such a “study” (really meta-study) would be so triumphantly emphasized in the femosphere, thus highlighting the latent purpose for such a study to begin with.

Culum StraunĀ links it for us:

New research suggests that the percentage of men (unknowingly) raising children who aren’t their own is only around 1-2%, as opposed to the 10-30% figure previously accepted over decades.

Reasons are unclear – the first hypothesis was that birth control may have reduced the *pregnancy* rates of women but not the infidelity rate – but apparently the 1-2% figure holds steady going back centuries, so that can’t be it.

The study authors conclude that in all probability the benefits of ā€œsuperior genesā€ are outweighed by the risks of being caught and the social stigma etc.

I’d be really interested in seeing what you guys think – is this information that needs to be used to revise our view of the world around us, or is there some flaw in the reasoning/logic leading to 1-2%? The most obvious thing I can see is that we don’t know the methodologies of the underlying studies which were combined to find the meta survey..

I found it interesting that the first reflexive from the femosphere was to wave this in the air as if it were some kind of vindication or a refutation of Hypergamy. “See guys? We don’t actually lie about paternity; if we marry and fuck you we statistically haveĀ your kids.”

It’s important to remember that the definition they are exploring here is one where men are ā€œunknowinglyā€ raising the progeny of another man. From the article:

This challengesĀ evolutionary psychologistsĀ who haveĀ suggested that human women “routinely ā€˜shop around’ for good genes by engaging in extra-pair copulationĀ to obtain genetic benefits.”

They conveniently ignore the genomic evidence that shows roughly 80% of women bred with 20% of men in our evolutionary past (including Neanderthals), but the basis of the study is flawed because they ask the wrong question. Whether or not the women inĀ our evolutionary past were pair-bonded in whatever social arrangement that passed for institutional monogamy at the time is functionally irrelevant to the latent purpose of cuckoldry.

It does, however, expose the mental point of origin of authorĀ . If she had cited the source for her quote I’d be less skeptical because no evo-psych researcher worth their salt would presume that women exclusively seek better genetic stock while within a pair-bonded relationship. It’s an indictment of the openness with which women embrace Hypergamy that they’d still need a janitor to sweep its ugliness back under the rug occasionally.

For the greater part of evo-psych research, the emphasis of study has centered on biological and evolutionary motivators (Estrus) that prompt women to Hypergamous predispositions and the end-purpose implied in women fulfilling their sexual strategy.

The Ends of Cuckoldry

The term “cuckoldry” isn’t strictly confined to duplicitous women duping husbands/boyfriends into believing the kid is theirs when it’s some other guy’s. Consider the marked increase in single motherhood since the Sexual Revolution; the statistic for abortion, the declining marriage rate and the fact that now, in westernized society, and the majority of births (close to 60%) are born to unwed mothers.

Now consider the social imperatives and zeitgeist of the past 70 years that promote women’s Hypergamous choices to the point that every woman’s sexual strategy and breeding choices are legislatively mandated to be supported. Men are mandated to support women’s breeding imperatives both directly and indirectly. Is that not the end purpose of cuckoldry?

Cuckoldry is implicative of far more than this woman’s narrow definition. And it’s narrow because women like Newitz are selling a salve to misdirect men in a larger society from considering that their cuckolding is really by and of their own volition. This is because men have been conditioned over the course of successive generations to think they are some kind of hero for ā€˜saving’ a woman from her own breeding decisions by directly or indirectly forgiving indiscretions and supporting and raising a child he didn’t father.

Just because a man knows the child isn’t his own doesn’t make it any less cuckoldry.

The question that needs to be asked, and is conveniently avoided in the article, is ā€œwhat is the latent, evolutionarily motivated purpose of cuckoldry that would best serve women’s dualistic sexual strategy?ā€ This is the uncomfortable question those nefarious evo-psych researchers really ask.

In the past, duplicitous, concealed, cuckoldry was a very risky prospect from a social perspective. It could mean family/tribal ostracism or even being stoned to death. So the larger, most deductively efficient way to achieve the same Hypergamous ends of cuckoldry is to reengineer a society where men are either ignorant of their own role in that cuckoldry or provided social rewards for their knowing participation in a socially acceptable form of cuckoldry. The latter is where we’ve progressed since the Sexual Revolution.

The ends remain the same, but it is cuckoldry by a different name. When we can restructure a social order that accepts and excuses both proactive and retroactive cuckoldryĀ before the fact, we normalize it and defuse the consequences for women, while holding men accountable for its consequences or their unwillingness to participate in it. And even when a woman aborts a child – the ultimate confirmation of Hypergamous disapproval – that social order pre-approves her choice, pre-approves holding her unaccountable for it and concurrently makes the men who would find fault in it villains for judging her pre-approved act.

Sons of Cuckolds

Reader Petherton linked me to a fascinating article which not only illustrates that Hypergamy was an issue for theĀ Greatest Generation, but also details the wages of ‘secret’ cuckoldry. Apparently the Archbishop of Canterbury has discovered he is the illegitimate son of Sir Winston Churchill’s last private secretaryĀ after taking a DNA test to prove his paternity.

Petherton:

This is a perfect example of women’s hypergamous nature. She rides the cock carousel and gets impregnated by an Alpha who’s already taken. She quickly marries a Beta who is hovering in the background and cuckolds him. He never unplugs, she loses respect for him (if there ever was any in the 1st place) and he drinks himself to an early death.

Eventually the truth comes out. Instead of taking responsibility for her actions, she paints herself as a victim. The pregnancy is blamed on alcohol, and she successfully generates pity from everyone. In fact she generates admiration from everyone for her brave and successful fight against alcoholism, and for putting up with an alcoholic husband.

No one anywhere suggests the truth: that she had a strategy (whether conscious or subconscious) to find the best genes for her offspring, while fooling another man into providing for that offspring. When she gets busted, she successfully paints herself as the victim. You couldn’t make it up!

Needless to say, I found this article and the blatantly revealed cuckoldry oddly karmic in its timing coinciding with the “cuckoldry” study’s release. However, we should now consider the Arch Bishop’s response to his mother’s proveable cuckoldry of his “father”.

“His deepest identity isn’t about which man was his father, but who his heavenly Father is.”

This is exactly the diplomatic response I’d expect from men (albeit a religious one in this instance) steeped in a feminine-primary social order and conditioned from birth to affirm his Blue Pill existence. While egalitarianism is ostensibly about baseline equalism and “it’s what’s on the inside that counts”, on the outside, there is no better social mandate that serves the evolutionary ends of Hypergamy. The Arch Bishop’s response to his mother’s cuckoldry is a textbook example of how the Feminine Imperative conditions men to excuse, affirm and perpetuate its ends.

He said theĀ right thing.

FromĀ Schedules of Mating:

Cheating
For this dynamic, and the practicality of enjoying the best of both genetic worlds, women find it necessary to ā€˜cheat’. This cheating can be done proactively or reactively.

In the reactive model, a woman who has already paired with her long term partner choice, engages in a extramarital or extra-pairing, sexual intercourse with a short term partner (i.e. the cheating wife or girlfriend). That’s not to say this short term opportunity cannot develop into a 2nd, long term mate, but the action of infidelity itself is a method for securing better genetic stock than the committed male provider is (or was) capable of supplying.

Proactive cheatingĀ is the single Mommy dilema. This form of ā€˜cheating’ relies on the woman breeding with a Good Genes male, bearing his children and then abandoning him, or having him abandon her, (again through invented social conventions) in order to find a Good Dad male to provide for her and the children of her Good Genes partner to ensure their security.

I want to stress again that (most) women do not have some consciously constructed and recognized master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it. Rather, the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying social rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. For the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to its influence.Ā For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she’s able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring’s survival with the best provisioning partner; this is an evolutionary jackpot.

The Cuckold
On some level of consciousness, men innately sense something is wrong with this situation, though they may not be able to place why they feel it or misunderstand it in the confusion of women’s justifications for it. Or, they become frustrated by the social pressures to ā€˜do the right thing’, are shamed into martyrdom/savior-hood and committed to a feigned responsibility to these conventions. Nevertheless, some see it well enough to steer clear of single mothers, either by prior experience or observing other male cuckolds saddled with the responsibility of raising and providing for – no matter how involved or uninvolved – another man’s successful reproduction efforts with this woman.

Men often fall into the role of the proactive or reactive Cuckold. He will never enjoy the same benefits as his mates short term partner(s) to the same degree, in the way of sexual desire or immediacy of it, while at the same time enduring the social pressures of having to provide for this Good Genes father’s progeny. It could be argued that he may contribute minimally to their welfare, but on some level, whether emotional, physical, financial or educational he will contribute some effort for another man’s genetic stock in exchange for a limited form of sexuality/intimacy from the mother. To some degree, (even if only by his presence) he is sharing the parental investment that should be borne by the short term partner. If nothing else, he contributes the time and effort to her he could be better invested in finding a sexual partner with which he could pursue his own genetic imperative by his own methodology.

However, needless to say, there is no shortage of men sexually deprived enough to ā€˜see past’ the long term disadvantages, and not only rewarding, but reinforcing a single mother’s bad decisions (bad from his own interest’s POV) with regard to her breeding selections and schedules in exchange for short term sexual gratification. Furthermore, by reinforcing her behavior thusly, he reinforces the social convention for both men and women. It’s important to bear in mind that in this age women are ultimately, soley responsible for the men they choose to mate with (baring rape of course) AND giving birth to their children. Men do bear responsibility for their actions no doubt, but it is ultimately the decision of the female and her judgement that decides her and her children’s fate

Who’s the Daddy?

Finally, we complete the cuckoldry trifecta with theĀ SpectatorĀ article,Ā Who’s the Daddy. Again, serendipitously, the rationale of this article exposes (perhaps obliviously) the social underpinnings of the Feminine Imperative’s motives in getting men to accept women’s Hypergamous choices as the preeminent social norm.

Many men have, of course, ended up raising children who were not genetically their own, but really, does it matter? You can feel quite as much tenderness for a child you mistakenly think to be yours as for one who is.

[…]Uncertainty allows mothers to select for their children the father who would be best for them.

If the definition of cuckoldry ought to be confined to deceptive duplicity, as AnnaleeNewitz suggests in her article, why then should we need a push to legally mandate men to being accountable fathers by default when they proveably are not?

paternity

Ironically, the very same DNA swab test that betrayed the Arch Bishop’s mother’s cuckoldry is the testĀ Ā proposes we make illegal or irrelevant in a court of law. And unironically, the Arch Bishop parrots back the mantra of the Feminine Imperative to excuse his own mother’s birth-fraud.

But in making paternity conditional on a test rather than the say-so of the mother, it has removed from women a powerful instrument of choice. I’m not sure that many people are much happier for it.

NovaseekerĀ had an excellent comment on this:

From the time paternity tests became more available and reliable, and men started using them to avoid paternity claims, the same argument has been made: it’s bad for the kids. Who cares if he isn’t the bio-dad, fatherhood isn’t about biology, it’s about a parental relationship. We should trust women who determine who the father is, so that she can choose the best man she thinks to be the father, etc., etc. The same arguments have been made for some time. In fact, medical ethicists also make the same arguments, to a large degree, in support of not disclosing non-paternity when it comes up in tests that were not specifically undergone to determine paternity — in other words, if your kid is getting tested for inherited disease, and the hospital finds out that it isn’t your bio kid, they don’t tell you that, for all the reasons stated in the article.

This really is a visceral issue for women. Paternity tests strike at something fundamental in women, even if the actual cuckolding rate remains low: the possibility to cuck, if needed. It’s a visceral issue for women, at a very deep and basic hindbrain level, for fairly clear reasons. If paternity tests were ever to become standard/mandatory at birth, the cucking strategy, even if it is a rather uncommon one, would become completely unavailable, and almost every single woman finds that to be a problem based on her hindbrain (and regardless of how her forebrain will formulate that deep, basic discomfort).

I’ve stated it in the past, but as the Feminine Imperative becomes more comfortable with Open Hypergamy and Open Cuckoldry more men will find its machinations unignorable. Thus, as increasingly more men refuse to participate in the game of their gender’s debasement the imperative must pursue legal mandates and fluid social restructuring to force men to comply with it.

Novaseeker again:

An amazing thing is how easy it is for women to dismiss the significance of biological fatherhood. It’s almost as if it simply doesn’t matter to them.

If that’s not an obvious flag of the FI, and the attendant idea that one sex’s sexual strategy must always impinge on the other sex’s sexual strategy, I don’t know what is. It places zero, zilch, nada importance on the male interest in having genetic progeny — again, it’s as if that interest simply doesn’t exist, and is illegitimate to even take into consideration.

There was a time when I had difficulty explaining the difference between men’s idealistic concept of love and women’s opportunistic concept of love. I’ve recently come to see that the best explanations and contrasts come from the openly embraced examples set by women that can’t be ignored.

There is no better example of women’s opportunistic love, indeed, women’s innate solipsistic nature, than the phrase ā€œit shouldn’t matter to the man who the biological father of the child really is – he just needs to accept it and support it.ā€

And there is no greater evidence of the Feminine Imperative’s purpose than a society structured to ensure that men and women believe this, as well as perpetuate it.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
kfg
9 years ago

@Snoman:

Number One on the list of The Best of Year One: https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/30/there-is-no-one/

Insert your own Highlander joke here; I’m too lazy right now.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
9 years ago

I think BPD chicks should be a right of passage for males in their 20’s.

I have the feeling any form of pathological Cluster B would work. I suspect my first psycho my first year of college was BPD, but I’ve dealt with a lot of different forms of Cluster B in chicks over the years. You start to pick up on the signs and steer clear of them regardless of whether you have abundance. It just takes honesty with yourself about people and their effect on you.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

“Question to the group-If you were to recommend only 1 post from the RM arsenal to blue pill men to bring awareness, which would it be ?”

That’s funny. Snowman asks about a single solitary essay from Rollo’s >450 essays. That is the definition of One-itis. And KFG points him to the one about One-itis.

Snowman, try this one on for size perspective:

https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/whats-your-problem/

scray
scray
9 years ago

@softek lol….only when you break free of this chick will you see how fucking loco she’s making you “She has responded very heavily to boundaries on my part, which makes me reconsider the BPD thing. Is she really being out of line (beyond what most normal girls would be like), or is the real problem that I’m not making it clear to her what is out of line, and I have such porous boundaries?” “She has issues, for sure, and has crossed lines, but when I had the balls to make it clear I wasn’t going to tolerate that behavior,… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
9 years ago

New article up adding to the old trope that TRP is just a bunch of pathetic, whiny losers.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/14/the-red-pill-reddit-modern-misogyny-manosphere-men

having a bad day
having a bad day
9 years ago

@Softek And yet we’re still seeing each other, but this morning I woke up and have just felt more OK about admitting that it’s me who’s doing this to me. Not her. My lack of direction and lack of being my own mental point of origin is what’s killing me. that’s some good self-awareness right there…now, work out a plan and execute… and i didn’t know the age differences before you talked about it here, but given that, another thing in play is probably that you are feeling like you are f*king up her chances to actually get a commitment… Read more »

newlyaloof
9 years ago

, damn, thanks dude for that “what’s your problem” link. I had missed that one. Powerful post to miss too.

@Scray, your gif responses! lol!

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

Softek, from time to time you mention that this woman you are entagled with has given you great sex. How do you know she’s so great? What other women can you compare her with?

Softek
Softek
9 years ago

Well, fuck. Slow learner. Fell for it again. Started soliciting me for sex, talking dirty etc., then right when things are getting really extreme, she busts out: “I get nervous when you’re horny and not with me. I feel like you’re going to look at other girls and want to fuck them and then not desire me. That you’ll just want to have sex with other girls. Is that true?” I say “no,” which was probably a big mistake, and then she says, “do you promise you wouldn’t lie to me about stuff like that?” Now I’m shot, and I… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

“If this shit is making me feel awful it’s making me feel awful for a reason, right?”

Lol. No.

Stop making shit up. And take what you are dealing with at face value.

scribblerg
scribblerg
9 years ago

@Sno – I have this one set as my home page on my browser. The Medium is the Message. https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/

scray
scray
9 years ago

@softek “Started soliciting me for sex, talking dirty etc., then right when things are getting really extreme, she busts out: ā€œI get nervous when you’re horny and not with me. I feel like you’re going to look at other girls and want to fuck them and then not desire me. That you’ll just want to have sex with other girls. Is that true?ā€ I say ā€œno,ā€ which was probably a big mistake, and then she says, ā€œdo you promise you wouldn’t lie to me about stuff like that?ā€” …. GET OUT. THERE’S NO ‘DEEPER MEANING’ THERE’S NO PHILOSOPHY. SHE IS… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
9 years ago

@Softek

Well, fuck. Slow learner. Fell for it again.

lol…fire is hot… buuuuut you really SHOULD touch it a couple more times (at least)…you know, just to be sure…lol…

good luck!

Gordon
Gordon
9 years ago

@Snoman The best one for me is https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/ . It is the one that made me see how I should change my mindset.

Once you decide for the red pill, https://therationalmale.com/2012/09/14/amused-mastery/ is the close second.

newlyaloof
9 years ago

@Softek: “My ‘girlfriend; keeps hitting my brain with crazy-rocks. What should I do?!”

scribblerg
scribblerg
9 years ago

@Softie – Scray points out something fairly dark but so true upthread. You need to get Machiavellian with this shit. I remember a year after my wife left me for the guy she had the affair with, she started circling back around me after I met someone I was pretty serious about.She could smell it and I was shocked but also getting some strange pussy (not the first but the first I was serious about) had tamped down my Oneitis with her. I decided I would use it to my favor. So I let her believe I would consider getting… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
9 years ago

@Softek ā€œShe has responded very heavily to boundaries on my part, which makes me reconsider the BPD thing. Is she really being out of line (beyond what most normal girls would be like), or is the real problem that I’m not making it clear to her what is out of line, and I have such porous boundaries?ā€ This is classic gaslighting. She purposefully fucking with your head to wear you down. There is only one solution… next and ghost. Believe me, after a couple weeks and you come down off the dopamine, you will have the necessary perspective to see… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
9 years ago

Sentient – I’m going through some of the Julien SHIFT infields right now and I noticed again what you keep pointing out – how so many of the RSD infields have a huge amount of kino right off the open (and through the interaction) but they never mention it. I wonder if that’s perhaps because they are worried about calibration – it’s difficult to tell guys to basically go grope a woman in a creepy way which is what a lot of guys are going to end up doing.. ..although he does say in one infield that in a crowded… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
9 years ago

@Softek

Bro, you’re under the misconception that this somehow a game that you can win.

You can’t fix crazy, let alone reason with crazy.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

Softek I can’t believe I was so fucking stupid that like literally in the same conversation she says we should get some space, instead of taking it, I get roped into the sex scheme, her telling me she wants to suck my cock and have me fuck her mouth and cum down her throat, etc., and within 10 minutes the sex talk abruptly stops and she comes out with that. And then we’re back for another interrogation round. Stimulus … response … stimulus … response. She’s training you with the endorphins from sex, or the possibility of sex, to endure… Read more »

Andy
Andy
9 years ago

@Softek

Feel bad for ya man. I’m having flashbacks. Definitely crazy. It probably feels to you like there’s no good options, but you’ll feel better if you just block her number and move on.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
9 years ago

@Softek

What you’re doing right now is trying to play at a professional level against a professional that will not go easy on you while you are a newbie in a youth league. That is a recipe for frustration. Stop doing it. Now. You are making your problems worse. Let me promise you: you would be better off incel than you are right now.

comment image

GET. THE FUCK. OUT. NOW.

lessonsfromthearena
9 years ago

@Rollo Tomassi – if you’d be interested in someone narrating your material in the future, anonymously and free of charge (I’d honestly just like to contribute in a tangible way), please, let me know. I have the voice, tone, and public speaking/reading experience to do at least as good a job of it as Mr. Botta did on your current audiobook (which I am in the process of listening to now; excellent material by the way). If you would like, I can provide you with an audio sample of me narrating one of you current articles at any time.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@Anonymous Reader

Realistically, after coming of the bench as an incel, this sexual escapade is like an oasis in the desert after wandering around with thirst for 10 years for Softek.

He had supreme thirst.

Too bad the water turned out to be poisoned, though.

anon anone
anon anone
9 years ago

you can roll a Rollo to your pal!

enrique
enrique
9 years ago

That pic of Zuckerberg with his “wife” and the big Alpha dude…Cuckerberg looks like he’s carrying the big guy’s coffee for him. Made me LOL.

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
9 years ago

“those upper 20-something teachers are just doing the same thing they did 10 years previous in high school, 5 years previous in college. It’s just a bit different if they get caught now, vs. then.

Have to say no to that. They may have wanted to be that way, but it’s easier for them now.

YaReally
9 years ago

ffs… SOLID PLAY gentlemen! Well done! Bravo! I hope making the nuanced point that “well I was with a legitimate BPD girl (see MY situation was SPESHUL, no one has had it as bad as *I* had it) and like, this girl is just CRAZY, not BPD, she didn’t do this and that so she’s not BPD, we shouldn’t throw those diagnoses around you guise!! #CONCERNTROLL” was worth it. Do you guys know WHY I stress the “looks and money don’t matter” stuff so much that you all think I’m an annoying broken record? Because there are very tiny nuances… Read more »

scray
scray
9 years ago

@scribb@all “Scray points out something fairly dark but so true upthread. You need to get Machiavellian with this shit.” lol MY ENTIRE STRATEGY IS BASED ON FEAR, COWARDICE, AND SELF-PRESERVATION. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THIS. HE IS GETTING FUCKED SO HARD HE HAS NO OTHER OPTION. what i’m suggesting is a cringeworthy thing that I think — given his fucked in the head state — he’s capable of doing. it’s a pathetic shitty solution to a pathetic shitty situation. ya if i thought he could pull off the whole ‘I’M DUMPING YOU FUCK OFF BITCH’ /radio silence thing, I’d suggest that… Read more »

kfg
kfg
9 years ago

“Whether they’re officially diagnosed as BPD or Cluster-B or Bipolar or alcoholic or drug addicts or sociopaths or victims of the FI or just inherently shitty human beings DOESN’T MATTER.

The prescription for ALL OF THOSE is the same: GET THE FUCK OUT. ”

Fuckin’ A!

walawala
walawala
9 years ago

Every guy who’s with a BPD/Cluster B girl wants irrefutable proof that all the symptoms/traits point to a 100% diagnosis. It’s irrelevant. If she’s treating you badly, get out. The waffling comes from a place of co-dependence triggered by guilt an shame: “Oh..poor thing she will be lost without me”. Read everything you can about BPD. There are varying degress but the behaviours are the same. I wrote extensively about my crazy ex. Tattoo of another guy’s name on her ass, plastic surgery, mommy issues, dumped her last bf while on a vacation and went on a separate trip by… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
9 years ago

The prescription for ALL OF THOSE is the same: GET THE FUCK OUT. This is exactly what I’ve been saying the whole time. He’s already seen a firsthand example of what these bitches look like and how they’ll make him feel. That’s all he can get out of it for now. It’s time to hit the fucking ejection seat and never look back. It’s super advanced relationship game to manage a BPD without Softie’s pre-existing psychological conditions, and even with tight game and no psychological issues of your own I don’t recommend it long term. It will be impossible for… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

Meh – “ā€œhowever I’m a bit put back at all this Cluster B and BPD terminology. I think it is a bit off, a misdiagnosisā€¦ā€” a quote from my post… One fragment taken out of context Yareally… read the whole thing. It’s exactly in line with Wala’s point that “It’s irrelevant. If she’s treating you badly, get out.” and my initial advice to him to just dump her NOT BECAUSE SHE MIGHT BE BPD (or whatever scary term one wishes to use) but merely for the experience of being a)unhappy and b) being the dumper not the dumpee… The larger… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

@Softek
Tell us again how you two met btw. I mean, this “pretty good girl” treated her last guy who gave her commitment pretty good right?

YaReally
9 years ago

@Sentient “and my initial advice to him to just dump her NOT BECAUSE SHE MIGHT BE BPD (or whatever scary term one wishes to use) but merely for the experience of being a)unhappy and b) being the dumper not the dumpee…” My point is that when you give a guy who’s unplugging that kind of advice, his brain will latch onto it as a way to excuse what he’s doing. Get him off the operating table, THEN talk about nuances, don’t walk into the middle of the ER going “you know, this disease that has you puking up blood every… Read more »

walawala
walawala
9 years ago

YaReally/Sentient unplugging is as much about understanding WHY you were plugged in, in the first place. The problem with guys who find out the girl they were with was BPD/Cluster B (I speak from experience) is you want to blame her for ALLLLL the nasty stuff….without realizing….YOU put up with it. WHY you put up with is the bigger question. The Alpha is the guy who realizes: Oh, she be crazy…i’m gone. NEXT Not: “What game techniques can I use to get her back to where she was when she had me on a pedestal and was chasing me like… Read more »

Softek
Softek
9 years ago

@ walawala re: why you’re plugged in This is what I wanted. This is EXACTLY the kind of girl I wanted. That’s the irony. It’s what I know. I’ve identified with being fucked up and miserable and having issues, so finding a girl that identifies with being fucked up and miserable and having issues — JACKPOT BABY! We’d get into an argument, she’d leave, I’d stay home and cut myself and she’d go home and drink herself into a blackout. And then we’d feel closer later as a result of that. Then during makeup sex she digs her fingernails so… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
9 years ago

ZFG is really taking hold for me, lol. I do and say whatever the fuck I want these days and people can take it how they’d like. And yeah, i’m not sarging right now. You know why? I don’t want to. Nice to live life for my own purposes these days. Ya is spot on about one thing in particular (among many things). Commenting and analyzing and parsing and yadyadyada can be LARPing, as I’ve been saying recently on these pages and I mean it. While I love the men here, I think that the PUAs are not completely wrong… Read more »

Softek
Softek
9 years ago

@ YaReally Seriously lol’ing at those pictures and your comments. That is some funny shit. My barometer for quality of life is kinda fucked up. You’re gonna love this. I literally almost wrote, “I haven’t ONCE had the urge to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger since I met this girl and have been seeing her, which I think is a really good sign.” THAT’S HOW I THINK. Like I was going to post that as a serious defense of why I should keep doing things the way I’ve been doing them. Like hey, I’m not… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
9 years ago

@Softek Even my psychiatrist told me the other day that I need to tell her that she if she wants to continue seeing me, she needs to start going to therapy or doing SOMETHING to get treated, because if she doesn’t want to improve herself or get better, this isn’t going to work, and I just need to end it. … fire your psychiatrist if this was their advice. That’s an ultimatum. Ultimatums are only used from a position of helplessness. Might was well just roll over and show her your belly. In a strong position you walk away from… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
9 years ago

@scrib

ZFG is really taking hold for me, lol.

Me giving zero fucks these days:

comment image

YaReally
9 years ago

@Softek “Even my psychiatrist told me the other day that I need to tell her that she if she wants to continue seeing me, she needs to start going to therapy or doing SOMETHING to get treated, because if she doesn’t want to improve herself or get better, this isn’t going to work, and I just need to end it. ” What your Blue Pill psychiatrist doesn’t get is that she doesn’t WANT TO GET BETTER. What she’s doing is WORKING. It’s KEEPING YOU AROUND. It’s KEEPING YOU ADDICTED TO HER. And she ENJOYS IT. She WANTS TO FEEL BAD… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

@Softek This is also why Soft Nexts work…when you go ghost on her for bad behavior, you teach her that when she brings you drama, you walk out and she loses your attention for a week or whatever. If you do that consistently, eventually she stops with the bad behavior because it’s not getting her what she wants and she feels enough fear of loss to tone it down. When you move in together, or have kids, or get legally married, or commit to her and stop seeing other girls and stop hanging with your buddies and having your own… Read more »

Softek
Softek
9 years ago

@ Sun That’s been another point of conflict for me. I’ve felt for a long time that the psychiatrist I’ve had hasn’t been particularly helpful, and even at some times abusive (said ‘memories are of impressions, not facts’ when I brought up being emotionally, physically and verbally abused growing up and that was basically the last mention of that ever). Like it’s taking issues I have and making them worse. Fucking stresses me out. Why am I still going? Same reason I’m still seeing this girl. Anyway, for the time being have been soft nexting her. My phone’s been going… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

@Softek “That’s been another point of conflict for me. I’ve felt for a long time that the psychiatrist I’ve had hasn’t been particularly helpful, and even at some times abusive (said ā€˜memories are of impressions, not facts’ when I brought up being emotionally, physically and verbally abused growing up and that was basically the last mention of that ever). Like it’s taking issues I have and making them worse. ” Ditch this person. Hit up any red pill community for better advice/therapy, even on the being abused by your dad etc stuff. You can’t even really open up to this… Read more »

Roy Hobbs
Roy Hobbs
9 years ago

@Softek Here’s my .02 Others have said it before me and it will be said again to another – we’ve all been through the shit-storm you are in now. Although my and everyone’s personal variables (age, GF psychosis, personal state, marital status, children, etc.) are/were different than yours – it’s still the same. I have 2 suggestions for you: 1. Drop your tools and run. Translation: end it with her now and do not look back no matter how much she calls/texts/or gets friends to communicate for her. The allegory is an organizational study: ā€œIn 1949, 13 firefighters lost their… Read more »

Softek
Softek
9 years ago

@ YaReally Thanks again for the input. Dealing with this shit now. I’m not responding, but getting the usual “Fuck you” “You obviously don’t care about me” At this point I can rationally say I’ve demonstrated that I do care about her, and that this is just for attention, and I’ve helped train her to do this. It’s also a huge wakeup call to see that she thinks it’s OK to talk to me like this. The AFC in me is screaming “Oh baby, I care about you so much baby, I was so worried about you baby” (I don’t… Read more »

YaReally
9 years ago

@Softek “Dealing with this shit now. I’m not responding, but getting the usual ā€œFuck youā€ ā€œYou obviously don’t care about meā€” The funny part is, if you can successfully ignore her for a week or two, you’ll see her flip through her rolodex of approaches to get you to react just like walawala’s chick did (again check my archives for “rolodex walawala”). Usually it goes something like “you don’t care about me” (you ignore for a bit) “fine fuck you then” (you ignore for a few days) “i hate that we fight so much šŸ™ I just want us to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

I want to clarify my comments about BPD experiences being a right-of-passage. It is in context of having a strong character, having resources to overcome and move on. Not for the uninitiated. Only for those who can move on. The trick for Hormesis is to keep the dose low enough not to be toxic. (Hormesis is a biological phenomenon whereby a beneficial effect (improved health, stress tolerance, growth or longevity) results from exposure to low doses of an agent that is otherwise toxic or lethal when given at higher doses.) BPD exposure is for hormesis in a strong individual in… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

Some men are strong and some men are weak.

The reason some men are stronger is that they actually lift/lifted the weights…..

Andy
Andy
9 years ago

@Softek

Sorry about giving you false hope back there. I should have known better. The scenario you’re going through now will just repeat itself over and over again if you go back to her until you finally break it off for good.

Andy
Andy
9 years ago

Fuck. Blax, YaReally. Thx for calling me out guys. Still learning.

having a bad day
having a bad day
9 years ago

@YaReally @scray @Softek @scray @Softek and under no circumstances can you meet her without another FB present going forward. nice way to generate a threesome…lol… and the reason to never see her again without a fb in tow isn’t to do 3-somes. lol wtf DUDE this bitch will fuck him over. there is no situ he will be able to handle better than her. INCLUDING A THREESOME. and This last one is made even easier when guys the Professor Frinks around here give you reasons to think that maybe it IS your fault and her behavior IS normal and if… Read more »

newlyaloof
9 years ago

@YaReally, outstanding advice for Softek. I remember dating this crazy bitch many years back. Whole relationship was crazy-dramatic shit all the time. She even convinced me that I should try a shrink. Went through some generalized anxiety stuff at the time, so I went. Felt good to talk to someone, but in the end, shrink lady didn’t offer me anything valuable. And I remember being a teenager and going through depression. Had a good family life and lots going for me, but I think all people go through a patch. Did a shrink help me back then? F no! A… Read more »

bluepillprofessor
9 years ago

@Softek: You are getting some great and well thought out advice but you still haven’t decided what YOU want. Also, why are you arguing with a woman? Slamming her infidelity in her face is not going to help your position in the least. I am not sure I have seen a more clear example of BPD ever described although some of that might be a woman losing her mind about forcing commitment. Rollo! This alone deserves it’s own post. This is textbook manipulation and she is not even being coy about it. In fact, it looks pretty vulgar from where… Read more »

theasdgamer
9 years ago

I think they are starting to miss me. Say what you may…I *did* add a touch of class to this place…while concurrently raising the level of civil discourse by leaps & bounds…

A giant in her own mind….

theasdgamer
9 years ago

>I’m afraid this strain has mutated. We’ll have to use….stronger measures.

It is really a totally unfair fight…dozens of males against all of me…

ghey

theasdgamer
9 years ago

Why would any man talk to something that bleeds for five days each month, yet doesn’t die?

theasdgamer
9 years ago

It’s almost like his brain, while unplugging, will just pick and choose the parts it WANTS to hear

You’re talking about the brain in Softek’s pants, right? I am only half joking here.

theasdgamer
9 years ago

@ all I’ve mentioned previously that I’m getting drama at a couple of clubs. At one of them, some mangina is whispering “creeper” when I dance past him. At another, someone is telling my friends that I’m there with a broad. At first I was angry about it, but now I see it as an opportunity for humor. I have composed a reply to them To those who are increasing my notoriety: I appreciate your efforts to make more pretty young women aware of me. Your drama-dorking takes me back to my high school days, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Despite… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

All of you guys have been doing a masterful job at responding to Softek. I’ve been mostly silently reading along, trying to figure out if I could add anything of value to the ongoing discussion, but it appears that I cannot. But I do want to say a few things to Softek that are not directly related to his situation with that woman. Softek, As you’re wrestling with all of the hardcore emotions being brought on by the woman you are choosing to continue to have contact with in your life, I’d like to suggest that while you’re putting quite… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@Blaximus

“People, regardless of who they are in life, only have as much control over you as you will allow them to have. Period. Turn that message into a chant if you have to.”

Lol. I think he should just start saying to himself whenever he is confronted with a hurdle in life:

What would Blaximus do?
What would Blaximus do?
What would Blaximus do?

bluepillprofessor
9 years ago

@Snowman: “If you were to recommend only 1 post from the RM arsenal to blue pill men to bring awareness, which would it be ?”

War Brides.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

So I want to know wtf is all this harping about LARPing via YaReally and Scribbler. Who are these LARPers and keyboard jockeys on the Rational Male that you are talking about? The absence of field reports is not evidence of absence of people going out in real life and performing as men and getting shit done. Or getting laid on the regular, with desire. Some of us go out and run a million dollar business and take home 25% of that working 2 1/2 days a week, while having nine female employees. Some of us have wonderfully raised twenty… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

@ SJF Well, I enjoyed your field report. I don’t know about Larping or keyboard jockeying. I just assumed that language isn’t meant for me. Maybe I’m wrong. zfg… lol. I post up stuff if I think it may be relevant to a discussion. I have 5 decades in also, and I’ve pretty much got shit figured out. I love coming here and seeing what’s going on. But mostly my FR’s would put everyone to sleep, or reach for the wheel of scroll. But I have fun every day. What I do have is hundreds of stories of my life… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

Gamer – too long and spergy. Replace with smirking smirk, that’s my suggestion.

mersonia
9 years ago

Google mystery and tyler durden on Shit Tests

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@ Mersonia

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you also think I should take the short bus to my farm on Sunday to bring some premium firewood back to the neighborhood? It’s fire pit season here.

I mean its hard to navigate the married life these days. After all, the manosphere and TRM is pretty damn confusing. And all these shit tests shore do make me tired.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/shortbus-46967.jpg

Softek
Softek
9 years ago

@ Blax, all Really appreciate the input. Ignoring this girl the other night and today was one of the hardest things I’ve done. Just focused on me. It was a crazy, crazy feeling. Re-initiated contact tonight, but even just a day of ignoring changed something. I’m feeling very different about the relationship. Told me just now someone told her that I’m “lucky I have her,” and that made her feel good, because this situation between us has been making her ‘feel really bad about herself,’ i.e. my not being decisive about wanting to commit to her is making her feel… Read more »

Softek
Softek
9 years ago

@ Blax

Knowing you’re a Hendrix fan if I recall correctly, feeling like I can relate to this one more than ever. Heard it a million times and it’s the first time it’s felt like it’s punching me in the stomach. Just gonna give it a couple listens as a catharsis and hit the sheets.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
9 years ago

Softek

Now you see it. Now you see the art of the illusion involved. When you deal with this woman, bear in mind that she’s not just running a rolodex, she’s pushing an illusion. Like she’s trying to put you in a mirror maze.
Break the illusion, and see what is real.

Like this…

mersonia
9 years ago

“Thanks for the suggestion. Do you also think I should take the short bus to my farm on Sunday to bring some premium firewood back to the neighborhood? It’s fire pit season here.
I mean its hard to navigate the married life these days. After all, the manosphere and TRM is pretty damn confusing. And all these shit tests shore do make me tired.”

Its your life dude. I don’t care what you do. You can’t just expect me to be your dad like this its too soon dude.

Pinelero
Pinelero
9 years ago

@softek- Your chess-playing analogy about acquiring more RP insights into your relationship dynamics was fantastic!

Your balls deep into a game that you are only now aware of playing. You have one advantage and that is your opponent is not aware that you have new insight. Good luck brother!

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@ Softek In simple terms her trump card is sex. Yours is commitment. Back in the old days, women were OK with the fact that they could be in love with a man. In order to do so, they were comfortable with the fact that they weren’t IN CONTROL of the man. Nowadays with feminism and Girl-Power and mainstream media they (women) are indoctrinated with the fact that THEY MUST CONTROL a man. And this poisons the well. It is equalism at it’s worst. It is bad for both men and women. Men and women are meant to have sexual… Read more »

Roused
Roused
9 years ago

Blax wrote: “But yeah, I assume most commenters don’t want to hear me talk about loving my wife and kids and friends and family. I got bored just typing that sentence.” Nah, it’s all good Blax. Our kids and those relationships ARE important. Not everybody here has them but I can tell you they are just as interesting to me as the PUA info and analysis of crazy BPD women. Lately helping my daughter stay focuses as she nears graduation is one hell of a lot more important than gaming chicks at the bar. She needs a strong father right… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

Softek…

Keep grinding. But realise that this here “i’d rather find some other girl i’d be crazy about fucking” is avoidance behavior. Stalling on confronting reality.

Truth is with an N of 3 you really only have some idea of what this mythical girl would be. You will be very surprised about which girls you actually become crazy about fucking. The little head thinking different from the big head and all.

Enjoy.

Sentient
Sentient
9 years ago

SJF

Excellent story… LoLED… So true… Wave after wave of feelz and emotions and tests…
Young fellas take note. This is what managing a long term relationship looks like under the hood.

SJB
SJB
9 years ago

Ah, the question of the day:
.
How much wood could a short bus truck,
If a short bus could truck wood?

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

@ Sentient

The good thing is that it doesn’t feel difficult (although it is. I just make relationship game, mentally, a low hurdle) or frustrating at this point in my life.

And that is because of the fact that I accept red pill and and endorse Game. Relationship game is 90% red-pill awareness (and a huge thank you to Rollo Tomassi for that) and the other half is Game (a big thanks to YaReally et al.).

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
9 years ago

@SJB

The answer is potato.

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

@ Softek-

Hendrix. Always good.

Here’s one for you….

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2ou-WIxfLY&w=854&h=480%5D

mersonia
9 years ago

@Blaximus ā€œBut yeah, I assume most commenters don’t want to hear me talk about loving my wife and kids and friends and family. I got bored just typing that sentence.ā€ No. Anything you talk about I’d assume everyone is fine with as long as you have experience with it . The problem is with people who have no idea about the dynamics of different situations and say ” well xyxyx would be cool and lead to xx results ” to someone who is in the actual situation. when xyxyx could just fuck them up and make them worse. and so… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

I got kind of a FR on how I spent my morning. This morning I attended a wedding of my wife’s best friend/pseudo sister, and the Spec Ops dude I spoke of a couple of weeks back. The wedding was at a very nice facility, held outside for the vows and what-not, in a garden with a waterfall and stuff. The groom showed up in full dress uni, and Jezuz-lawd-have-mercy, The medals and shit covered practically the entire front of the coat. I have to say I was impressed. The bride looked good, but that was to be expected. There… Read more »

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

Update/addendum to last boring field report: Yesterday I was out at my farm clearing brush most of the day. Had a hard time keeping my blood sugar over 80 out in the middle of rural-farm nowhere. I literally poked my finger and checked 12 times between 10:00 and 5:00 PM. most of them on the low low side.(from physical exertion clearing brush and burning it in two 55 gallon steel burn barrels). I got home around 6 PM and my wife was returning from being out with some girl friends and was leaving for Girls Night Out with neighborhood women.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
9 years ago

@ mersonia ” Like I would never go to yareally and ask him about experience on being married x amount of years. Though I might ask you or SJF” My first marriage was one of the best things that I’d ever been involved in. When I accidently exploded it, the result was that I felt like somebody had performed open heart surgery on me with a rusty butter knife. I still have the deep scaring, but I see them as badges of honor, having survived. They are all healed up now, and they no longer hurt. My second marriage is… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
9 years ago

Had an opportunity to talk to a couple of wine vendors today. One a blonde and another was black. Blonde was a 6 I guess, black was a 5. Talked to them, but had no interest. Was funny compared to the Mexican girl I met in line a few weeks ago. Instant boner, and started to talk to her before I even realized what I was doing. These girls, just had no interest and no desire to do anything. I curious though about the ratings you guys give girls. I saw the huge SMV rating picture that scray posted a… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
9 years ago

Had another opportunity. 7.5 with what looked like her younger brother and sister. They, and the 7.5 in particular, looked middle eastern, so I asked if they were from Iran. She said they they weren’t, and that they had never been called that before. She said she would take it as a compliment. Was pleasant, but didn’t really go anywhere. 90/10 rule and all that. Cold reads on where girls are from works extremely well on girls who are foreign. Every girl who I’ve cold read abut where’s she’s from that was foreign responded very well to it and I… Read more »

Student of Game
Student of Game
9 years ago

@YaReally I’d like to thank you for all of the time you’ve spent helping people out here. I’ve lurked in the Manosphere for 2 years, doing online game and only a handful of cold approaches. I was inspired to go out by reading your breakdowns of scray’s FR’s and the resources you’ve linked. Since discovering your archives 8 months ago, my lay count went from 1 to 7, including 2 from cold approach. I went out every day in January following PIMP and SHIFT, but got lazy about cold approaching for the last couple months after getting an FB off… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
9 years ago

@hank holiday and @Student of Game – good work on getting out there and practicing and doing stuff Hank – yeah your approach seems good…if you’re practicing daygame there’s a good infield video in SHIFT where he talks about merging sets on the street and he and his students open loads of girls walking past on the same street corner and merge them into a set – you may find it interesting. @Student – I’m not YaReally but PIMP basically follows the underlying MM structure with a few minor tweaks. It’s not “different”. It’s just that he uses different material… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
9 years ago

disturbing article

cattaro
cattaro
9 years ago

Whats happening in women mind when she decide do live husband just month or two after first child is born? 1. Does he become totally beta from previous alfa in 9 months (he did not lose his job or gain some large weight or louse large money? 2. Shouldn’t be normally that she aborted his child if he is some beta dude and she don’t wont hes genes pass by? 3. Shouldn’t be logical if he is some week man, that she wait year or two, and than after her child grow up a little bit to live him at… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
9 years ago

Heh, good stories everyone. Blax, SJF, student…. Entertaining Sunday morning read. Was up a bit late with my dudes last night and now I’ve got a bit of a hangover. Shit sucks, but no time to mope. I day2’d a girl last week and got a strong sense that she really needs some dick, but she’s got massive asd. I’m gonna invite her on a hike and see if my ‘middle-of-the-woods’ N can bump up a notch. We’ve both been busy with work and could use a bit of fun ‘n relaxation before Monday. If she doesn’t bite I’ll hit… Read more »

HowlingManTodd
HowlingManTodd
9 years ago

Pool boy: http://youtu.be/gn2933vMylY

Agent P
Agent P
9 years ago

@scribblerg Thanks man for the Coming Apart by Charles Murray book recommendation. An excellent book and a pretty easy read, I blasted through most of it this week and weekend, almost done. A thoughtful book in my estimation and I have trouble disputing much of his thesis if any. He ties nicely into so many other things and he manages to stay out of the way of all the race issues for the most part in his analysis. Reading it through an RP lens is a whole other dimension unto itself. Seeing cultural Marxism, the rise of feminism etc all… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
9 years ago

@Fuckit: not sure what you mean. Do you mean a list of routines? Easily googleable or readable in the Mystery Method book/Youtube

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

“Anyone have decent resources on creating a routine stack?”

Is this a trick question?

Just Google search “PUA routines stack”.

Fuckit
Fuckit
9 years ago

@Culum

Yeah, I read MM. I feel like it would just be awkward using someone elses routines. I get the concepts well enough that I could probably map out a couple for myself. I was just wondering if there was something I was missing that stood out other than MM.

kfg
kfg
9 years ago

“I get the concepts well enough that I could probably map out a couple for myself.”

Congratulations, you have learned the secret of life. The Burden of Performance always defaults to you. Shoulder it well, for your own benefit.

SJF
SJF
9 years ago

“Congratulations, you have learned the secret of life. The Burden of Performance always defaults to you. Shoulder it well, for your own benefit.” LOL. +1 to that. For example in one of that google search links: http://attractioninstitute.com/develop-an-unlimited-routine-stack-4-simple-steps/ Developing An Unlimited Routine Stack: 4 Simple Steps Author: Leigh (LoGun) Running out of things to say when talking to beautiful women is a common problem. The seduction community solution for this is to learn a large amount of stories and topics to talk about so that you can pull something up on demand. If you want to spend half your night reading… Read more »

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