The Price of Nice

Price-of-nice

Well, dammit, here we go again. Just as I’m mid-way through another in-depth post I get stopped by something I can’t ignore. The above ‘post’ has been making the rounds on Twitter and more than a few in the ‘sphere have asked me for my take.

I probably would’ve just blown this off along with the few hundred other incidences of Beta guys (really Average Frustrated Chump in this instance) bemoaning the same lack of cooperation on the part of women to play along with their investment in the old set of books, that was however until I read through the predictable ‘Nice Shaming’ of Mark Pygas here.

“Good guys” are the absolute worst. If you’re going to go on an insane rant every time a woman tells you ‘no,’ you’re not a good guy.

Tumblr user Fenrufenrifenny recently spotted a flyer posted all around town that shamed women for not giving the “good guys a chance” and choosing “scum” men. Just a brief warning, it will probably be the worst thing you’ve ever read.

Proxy male femsplaining aside, no Mark, this isn’t worst thing I’ve ever read from a Nice Guy. In fact, just three years ago the ‘Nice Guys of OK Cupid‘ blog/hashtag made a point of running these Good Guys up the flagpole for the exact same frustrations of dealing with women in the most deductive, old rules way they’ve been taught to deal with women by their own words and conditioning.

You aren’t an original Mark, Hugo Schwyzer beat you to the Nice-Shaming-As-Beta-Game 4 years ago. And just like Hugo you make the same predictable assumptions about men expecting sex for niceties in an era where women exploit and advertise that men doing more chores and making women’s lives easier will lead to sex.

You see shaming Nice Guys for playing by the rules every woman has told him he ought to play by – since his single-mother or feminized father mentioned he should respect women by default to him since 5 years old – is the height of Hypergamous hypocrisy. Every time a woman, or a Vichy Male femsplainer, tells a guy “just be yourself‘ or “women love men who respect women” or in some other way convince him that women’s intimacy is best achieved by being the sensitive, understanding and supportive Beta they’ll need once they can no longer attract an Alpha asshole, all you do is reinforce the Nice Guy you now hate so much.

You see, you don’t get it both ways. You can’t shame and heap derision upon a Nice Guy for believing the same Old Books horse shit you’ve taught him will earn a woman’s favor and love. You don’t get to call him duplicitous when he believes all the “just be yourself” and “in the end women really want Nice men” tropes he’s been fed by the media mouths of a society that’s founded on women’s Hypergamy.

You may think this is some new development, but Nice Shaming has been going on for at least the 4 and a half years I’ve been blogging:

When truly nice guys (80-90% of the masculine sphere) read a line like “Nice Guys are the real jerks” something snaps in their heads. Black is white, up is down and Nice Guys are Jerks. Most Nice Guys have been playing the self-internalized Beta Game, identification scenario out for so long that to read something like this is akin to blaspheme. “Great now all these women I’ve been trying to be so nice too (like they all say they want) really think I’m a jerk?” One would think this would be a moment of clarity for the Nice Guy and he’d realize the truth of what his ‘misogynist’ Game-aware friends had been trying to enlighten him about for so long.

It’s almost like I have to revisit this Nice Guy paradox ever two years or so:

The only way to garner true appreciation, true valuation, truly inspired displays of affection, from women is to covertly imply the risk of losing a high-value Man. Whether the man is even truly of a higher value is irrelevant, only the perception needs to be reinforced for her. Risk of loss is all that factors. Risk of losing an investment in optimizing hypergamy is weighed against her own perceived sexual market value and the effort needed to reinvest in another, potentially higher SMV man. Risk of loss is why her imagination furiously spins the wheel in her head.

That sounds horrible, but the truth often is. Women’s lack of appreciation for the more compassionate natures of men, and their consuming regard for rewarding men that appease their hypergamy is so well proven it’s become predictable enough to develop techniques and behavioral modifications to exploit it (i.e. Game). Most guys would like nothing better than to honestly play the loving, white knight, romantic who women bemoan a lack of in the world. Yet for every sonnet composed, every provision met, every compliment delivered and every well planned candlelit dinner conversation, there’s a woman feverishly fucking her Alpha bad boy in his low rent apartment for fear of losing him to the competition.
However, all that reviewed, it’s good to return to the issues that never really die off, and particularly so in the case of Nice Shaming because as we progress further into a social order that’s become increasingly more comfortable in openly, proudly, embracing Hypergamy the more poignant messages like the one in this posted letter are. Really it’s nothing new for a guy steeped in Blue Pill conditioning to be frustrated with the new set of books on display right before his eyes, but as Open Hypergamy becomes more and more unignorable in real-space as well as in media and open expressions of it, the less men will vent these frustrations so publicly.
The time to worry wont be when guys post open letters like this in dorm hallways, the time to worry is when that ceases altogether.
Women’s continued inability to really understand why a Nice Guy would ever be so frustrated as to post a notice like this only highlights an obliviousness that serves their Hypergamous imperatives. In other words it’s not in women’s Hypergamous interests to understand or sympathize with a guy who’s brought their sexual strategy out into the open.
The reason Nice Shaming still persists after decades is that it actually serves the Feminine Imperative. If you read through the Twitter responses to this note they are all identical to, or variations of the response I’ve outlined in my previous ‘Nice’ guy posts for almost 5 years now. And if this doesn’t convince you that women have a vested interest in not getting why a guy would post such frustration, you can just read the real-time posted response to it:
price-of-nice_2

Dear Sir,

If you’re watching some girl you like getting hurt by another guy STOP WHINING ABOUT IT AND DO SOMETHING. Don’t leave some anonymous note on a dorm wall. If you know someone is being hurt DO. SOME. THING.

If you want to play the “good guy” you need to rethink your intentions. If you’re only doing it for gratification, then you aren’t being the good guy. Did Batman give up on Gotham because people weren’t thanking him for saving the city?

You know what I really want? I want respect. I want people to respect that I’d rather not walk with a stranger in the middle of the night. I want people to respect that I can defend myself. I want people to respect that WOMEN CAN DO THINGS WITHOUT A GENTLEMAN TO HELP.

You want to be a gentlemen and a good guy? Start with changing the way you and other men see women. We aren’t fragile things you need to defend. We’re people. Keep holding doors open, keep being friendly, just don’t expect things in return; you aren’t owed anything by this world.

If you want us to be less afraid of the world, then change the world, don’t change us.

The obliviousness to the original message might seem staggering until you consider that it was likely typed out by a woman with a self-impression of female empowerment. The idea she’s addressing is that it’s the Nice Guy’s fault for not stepping in to “do something” while simultaneously claiming that “women can do things without a man’s help”. That alone would be enough to illustrate the mindset that would respond to a Nice Guy bemoaning women’s duplicity about ‘being Nice’, but she continues to miss the point that the dutiful ‘helping’ he’s offering isn’t help at all, but his disillusionment with his Blue Pill conditioning.

It’s likely he’s oblivious to it, but he’s publicly taken a step into Red Pill awareness and in doing so reveals women’s Hypergamous duplicity. Now, that is what it is, but that step into Red Pill awareness is something that makes women very uncomfortable when they don’t control the narrative about their own Hypergamy. It’s one thing to make Hypergamy ‘open’ in a commercial or in a book by an empowered woman, but let a man reveal it in his perspective and he’s “bitter” or it’s an “insane rant” by a Nice Guy who’s only Nice because he thinks it’ll get him laid.

As I was saying, in the future I expect to see less Nice Shaming as the machinations of Hypergamy becomes part of men’s popular consciousness. The result, like most others brought on by feminine social primacy, will be men taking women at their word – “women can do things without a man’s help” and they “aren’t fragile things you need to defend” – and they’ll get the men they deserve; men who will understand that niceties aren’t in fact exchangeable for appreciation, intimate or otherwise. Their attentions, courtesies and help will be reserved for the women who actually deserve and reciprocate it rather than due to it being some default chivalry that’s expected of them. And they’ll abandon the strong independent women (and even the ones who look like them) to their fates, while they cry about the lack of self-sacrificing ‘real men’ to love and help them when it’s convenient for them.

It’ll take a while. Obviously the same Nice Shaming from a decade ago still manifests like this occasionally, and the predictable “women don’t owe you sex” indignation is still the reflexive response. But as the old exchanges of the old rules are cycled out for the cruel, but accepted, realities that the Red Pill outlines, women will get exactly the men they deserve. Men who will give them respect based on their real personal merits and only offer niceties to the ones who wont spit in their faces or accuse them of sexual harassment for doing so.

As it stands now, Nice Shaming serves as a filter for women’s Hypergamy. The guys who Just Get It don’t post notes like this. Guys who get it learn from that frustration, they adapt, they experiment, they adjust and they develop Game to exploit the real intersexual rules in play, and they don’t make grandiose displays of the real game.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
4 years ago

Emily is proving the point that none of these “covert contracts” are actually covert. Women can spot it from a mile away, and yet they make no objection to these guys doing for them until they get bored.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“kfg watches anime?” Not a fanboi, but yeah, I’ve been watching anime since slightly before the American release of Astro Boy (I was an Arabian Nights fan as a kid and the original Sinbad no Bouken is what got me into anime, late ’62, early ’63). There are periods that lose me though. I don’t see anything in giant mechs, for instance (although Gurren Lagann was a bit of goofy fun). And I don’t devote any great sum of money to it. I’ve bought the handful of Miyazaki movies. Kon’s Paprika. FLCL, Haibane Renmei and I’ll add Serial Experiments Lain… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Cross post.

Just who the hell do you think I ammmmmm!?

I’ve actually thought about getting a pair of the glasses to wear while cycling.

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
4 years ago

@Pellaeon, Any emotional investment I have in this has more to do with the staggering about of life I’ve wasted with the blue pill. It has very little to do with not having transcended this. No amount of figuring things out can give you your time back and that does continue to burn. That loss of time is what has yet to be fully processed. There is a reason Rollo takes a pass on helping most older dudes. Perhaps someone else can find that reference. Younger men should be thankful they found this information early. As an older dude, the… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kfg I loved Gurren Lagann’s big dumb fun for it’s simple message of how a man should live: find good reliable friends, work your asses off together, joyfully embrace doing the impossible, and don’t be afraid of being your own man every step of the way. It made no apologies every step of the way. Haruhi’s first season gets mad props for pulling off a brilliant take on Rozencrantz & Gildenstern, particularly with the meta moment of having one of the characters doing the coin tossing soliloquy for a school festival. I still need to see the movie. Lain is… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kfg Just who the hell do you think I ammmmmm!? 俺が誰だと思ってやがる! I’ve actually thought about getting a pair of the glasses to wear while cycling. Who hasn’t? 😉 http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/542/246/a2e.jpg My car and motorcycle are both ridiculously bright red. I’ve talked myself out of complementary Gurren and Lagann themes for them respectively, but the bike IS going to have a Lagann theme on it soon. Most folks won’t recognize it since you can get away with ridiculous paintjobs on bikes, and I think I’ve got a very slick idea of how to design it. Don’t forget to take the epic soundtrack… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Rollo You think the reason she wrote what basically amounts to a Beta snub song is that’s all that’s ever approached her whale ass? I can tell you she’s not in any danger of being approached by me. Never was. Honestly she looks like the hambeasts I seem to catch eyeing me wishing I’d approach them these days. Dear Miss Trainor, stop writing songs about how you’ll turn down Betas and start hitting the gym and developing a personality worth a shit to be approached by dudes that will make you write “YES” instead. Love, Your Girl Game Mentor Loading...

cptnemo2013
4 years ago

Reblogged this on MGTOW 2.0.

emilyy96
4 years ago

” she wants “kind and polite” but only in a man she’s already attracted to. “Kind and polite” first get nowhere with her.” No, it doesn’t. And it shouldn’t. Being nice to someone doesn’t mean they have to fuck you. How is that difficult to understand? “I’m convinced that for women, there are sexy and icky ways a man can do just about anything. Including being nice.” Ooooh Striver. Someone smart here 🙂 Yep! The guy who is nice but also conveys desperation and obsession is being ‘icky.’ But I’ve been with several guys who were very nice. ” and… Read more »

Kaminsky
Kaminsky
4 years ago

Meghan Trainor,

All about the “No” until that bucket of Haagen-Dazs comes swaggering into da club.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@ Sentient

The Nice Guy ™ is negotiating honestly with the girl. He expects her to negotiate a fair price for her pussy like he has been taught.

Kaminsky
Kaminsky
4 years ago

Here’s mine; “Ok Ladies. I get it. You don’t want men who are in the world’s top five percentile even though you are in the world’s bottom five percentile. You don’t want to so much as go for walks on occasion even though you’re 80 pounds overweight and in the prime of your youth. You don’t want to have to exhibit a single trace of femininity or cut your daily sugar intake from 5 pounds down to a half-pound. Fine–Fear the passport. I guess we’ll just have to suffer through less work and 19 year olds who are a full… Read more »

walawala
walawala
4 years ago

I have to be honest. Before my Red Pill awareness 6 years ago, I was “nice” because I wanted to get laid. Now it’s just the opposite. The more aloof, the more “enigmatic” I am, the more I lead, the better I do with women. I’ve banged 7 this year working on 8 and 9–all under 30. I don’t think I’m “nice”…that hasn’t come up. I don’t think they want that pre-bang. The whole lover/provider dynamic is such that women instantly divide you into one group or the other. It’s the reason why you can’t move from being “friends” to… Read more »

IAS
IAS
4 years ago

@KFG: you like Serial Experiments Lain? I just didn’t get it.

infowarrior1
4 years ago

Be nice because you are nice not to curry favor with women.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“you like Serial Experiments Lain?”

Enough so that even though I’ve seen it more than a dozen times, and it’s streamed on the web, I still feel like I want to buy it.

“I just didn’t get it.”

https://www.cjas.org/~leng/lain.htm

Ludiam0ndz
Ludiam0ndz
4 years ago

Rollo, that baffler article is superb! Really thoughtful analysis of many different issues, thanks for that.

Also, another useful post.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

The baffler article was mostly shit. Written by a woman, whodathunkit? Emily thinks she can tell who’s smart, but really she is only responding to her feelz. If a man gives her good feelz, he must be smart. Hamsterization. Most of us men commenting here are writing objectively, but a woman generally cannot think objectively because she is heavily directed by biology to think subjectively. Can’t blame her for that, but women shouldn’t pretend that they can think objectively or engage men on objective terms. A woman shouldn’t arrogate to herself the privilege to judge who is smart and who… Read more »

Andy
Andy
4 years ago

Great article.

“What will be the reward? When this journey towards a machine-less apotheosis is complete and man sits cosy in his moisturised, genderless, soft-backed perfection, you can bet that he can forget about plugging into the opposite sex in the hope of a life-enhancing half-hour of non-nuclear fusion.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/why-do-men-love-machines/

I wonder if nice guy game actually worked back in the day when we were securing shelter, providing food, fending off sabre-tooth tigers and such. When we were blatantly useful. Probably not.

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

At the risk of being seen as a Krauser basher, below is a video of Krauser updating his followers on the Daygame books he’s writing. Check it out for yourself. I liked his content early on but haven’t really followed him in over a year as MM, RSD, and now Juggler resonate with me intensely and he simply does not. Take a look at the vid (I doubt any of you will be able to sit through it all). His subcommunications are such shit. His energy is low and flat. His speaking is not dynamic and there is just no… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

@Andy – One point. None of this is “working”. The economy and new reality that idiotic screed of nonsense is based on is a creation of debt, govt funding and central bank juking that is unsustainable. As we say in risk, “reversion to the mean can be a real bitch”. When the reset comes, vast numbers of non-productive workers will be eliminated. HR, marketing, non-profits, admins in health, education and welfare, many teachers – all female dominated fields. When they can’t free-ride on the economy based essentially on the rent the U.S. and the west collect, women will revert to… Read more »

Andy
Andy
4 years ago

“The article also misattributes many things. They correlate the reduction in violent crime with feminine values when in fact it’s due to locking people up.”

The article I linked? There’s nothing about that.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@ScribblerG Great to hear the news about the lack of seasonal affective disorder (SAD). All that talk here in the past about neurobiology and neuroplasticity seems to have made a difference. A difference because of a bottoms up approach and learning the work-arounds. Keep moving in that direction you are taking with game. I know my mental point of origin has strengthened tremendously. And I really want to give a high five to YaReally, Scray, HABD and Sentient for lighting a fire under discussions here. It seems they brought a figurative “get off your ass” mentality and a practical mindset… Read more »

Harlequin
Harlequin
4 years ago

There is certainly a split here on the amount of sympathy nice guys deserve. I’m firmly in the sympathy camp, and as others have pointed out I think it largely depends on how much you were indoctrinated yourself as a kid. Being brought up primarily by a single mother I fell for selfless (BP) romance hard. Almost made worse by the fact she is a wonderful person, in which I mistook her selfless parental love as a universal trait women feel for men. This came crashing down when I hit dating age, and experience after experience showed me that being… Read more »

Harlequin
Harlequin
4 years ago

It’s also brilliant to have someone like Rollo express these ideas with such clarity and thoughtfulness.

Lot’s of guys will develop decent strategy and coping mechanisms for dealing with women, but I never would have got the full picture and reasons behind it without redpill writing.

I find women a lot more fun to deal with when applying a scientific approach.Turns out my chemistry degree does help pick up chicks!

redlight
redlight
4 years ago

@scrib

People are noticing my enthusiasm and energy all the time now. Took some new pics for my social media/web presence and my smile is electric and I just pop with energy.

Fantastic, you will see improvements in ALL areas of your life

kobayashii1681
4 years ago

@kfg: I hear you on that bruv….had been sitting in my hard drive so thought I’d give it a try….also use anime to keep my Jap on point as possible. @Sun: hard to find overtly masculine anime nowadays…it’s like the dudes have to be badass but still have to defer to women… “Probably the only show on any medium I’ve seen in a couple decades that unabashedly celebrates masculine men.” What’s the name of that show bruv? Also, to both, all, have you watched the Jap movie “Beyond Outrage”…oldish…but loved that, Takashi Kitano Loading...

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[…] at The Rational Male, Rollo Tomassi just posted “The Price of Nice“.  His post examines two letters.  One is by a beta nice guy to women complaining about how […]

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kobayashi

Gurren Lagann. Mentioned the name earlier upthread.

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@scrib

One of my best friends when I was younger used to call me “Mr. Positive” and I feel like I’m back there.

I think one of the big issues I’ve had is that’s never been me. Maintaining a positive attitude is an extreme drain on me even these days. The fact that I’ve gotten to more or less neutral more often than not lately is actually an accomplishment.

kobayashii1681
4 years ago

@Sun: scratch that…Green Lagan…wakarimashita.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@ Agent P

You’re Canadian? I’m sorry… :-]]

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Kobayashi: “. . . have you watched the Jap movie “Beyond Outrage”…oldish . . .” I haven’t watched Outrage yet, too new. I like Kitano so I’ll add them to the list. My favorite Japanese director is . . . Kobayashi. Kwaidan is one of the first DVDs I ever bought. Someone (I assume my parents, but I don’t remember) dragged me to an art house to see it as a child and I’ve been enchanted by it ever since. Used to be a very rare treat to find it being screened somewhere. Now I can just run it on… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kfg

Kwaidan is one of the first DVDs I ever bought.

I assume you’ve seen Mushishi then? Right up the same alley, and quite beautifully done. A very sparse aesthetic and pacing with some fascinating mythology.

Hook or Crook
Hook or Crook
4 years ago

@scribblerg regarding Krauser: I think this might just be a classic case of the British vs. American style. We accuse them of being inscrutable, stuffy cunts, and they accuse us of being brainless dancing monkeys. It’s also a hallmark of his distinction between “alpha” and “sigma”, wherein the ‘sigma’ is more of a brooding lone wolf to the alpha’s prideful lion.* *I’m not an expert on this distinction and it doesn’t really gel with me, so proper research might be recommended if you’re interested. Either way, if Krauser was suddenly seen bouncing around the street with a smile on his… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Hook

Good heavens, old chap!

comment image

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
4 years ago

<blockquoteAll young men learn these days is how “it is the mans fault”. F that. Fix yourself young men, but don’t take the blame for any of this.

I’ll second that. I refuse to take blame for my failures. Responsibility yes, but blame, no.

I’ve always performed to the best of my abilities, and it is my responsibility to improve my capacity where my abilities are deficient. I, however, am not at fault for my own naivety and weakness growing up.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“I assume you’ve seen Mushishi then?”

Oh yeah.

having a bad day
having a bad day
4 years ago

@scribblerg props on the progress… re SAD/depression i had both those, and i always had the feeling in the back of my head that those feelings would go away if i just ‘did something for myself’… like it was a form of learned helplessness…i never really had the balls to do anything about it before RP though…(but that’s just my experience…) still feel the need to attack MGTOW?… good luck! ____________ @ SJF I know my mental point of origin has strengthened tremendously. great job!… i’m still working on this…it’s a pain in the @ss…lol…but if i can figure out… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

@Andy – I thought you were talking about the article Rollo linked. What did I miss? So busy these days I’m having a hard time keeping up here, sorry if I brain-farted something.

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Andy

Did you notice they had this gem as well?

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

@Hook – Two of my closest friends are Brits and I’ve been close to many of them over the years, so with respect, I disagree. I can also link many vids here of highly energetic and positive Brits.

@SJF – I acknowledge he’s knowledgeable, and perhaps the book was good – I bailed on him when I found better PUA sources. But to excuse the flat affect, the dead eyes, the monotone as not being meaningful due him being INTJ is kind of silly. If you do the same, your subcomms are shit too..

emilyy96
4 years ago

” Most of us men commenting here are writing objectively, but a woman generally cannot think objectively because she is heavily directed by biology to think subjectively. ”

Word?

Andy
Andy
4 years ago

@sun

Pfffft. evolutionary psychology… Everyone knows that isn’t science. 😉 That David Buss guy has been getting around lately. I’m surprised the feminists haven’t called for his head.

@scribblerg

Yeah I realized that afterwards. I didn’t read the previous comments before I posted that.

Craiger247
Craiger247
4 years ago

Great article again Rollo (yes, I say that a lot, but by far you are the best of the RP)! The guy who wrote that note obviously resonates with so many men with the same former BP ideals, but as Rollo stated in the article, the beta is indeed inching his way here (aka the RP truth). You need that “rock bottom”, that final shove to your ego that makes you question it all in order to make a change. Honestly, I would not have posted a note like that in my BP days, but I will not deny I… Read more »

Andy
Andy
4 years ago

“So women think men believe they’re “owed sex” for something stupidly simple like holding a door or carrying groceries for them. This is typical over-exaggeration needed to create straw men out of Nice guys.” @Rollo Yeah… Like that SlateStarCodex post someone linked… The concept that a guy like that might just want to feel loved is completely unfathomable for some reason. There’s a real good chance that those nice guys carrying the groceries haven’t had real human contact in years. I don’t think that girls can really appreciate how much that can fuck you up mentally. Loading...

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

YaReally HABD Sentient Forge scribblerg et al: Just a quick update: remember “epiphany chick” flaked on me a couple of weeks ago saying she was hungover and didn’t want to drive to me? I just blanked her and didn’t reply, and she just texted saying “Am I off your Christmas list? I was just hungover and didn’t want to drive all the way..” I’m just still not used to actually *being* chased you know? But it’s a great feeling. Like she clearly gets *some* emotions from me that she can’t easily get elsewhere..but I haven’t quite internalized as automatic that… Read more »

Kate Minter
4 years ago

There are plenty of “nice” women who have expectations attached to their giving. I cooked dinner for you, so you should be my boyfriend. The key to both genders getting rid of nice and actually being real is to throw off expectations for anybody from anything. You are never disappointed and often pleasantly surprised 🙂

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Never paid too much attention in my youth, about what women thought of whatever actions I happen to take. Before Cell phones, I used to ask a chick for her number if I wanted to Talk to her. Don’t recall a whole lot of resistance other than ” I can’t, I have a boyfriend “, which I respected and then kept it moving. Rollo is right about the conflicting messages though. The exaggerated responses attributed to a man being nice are absurd. Nowadays when I hold a door for a female, the responses are divided evenly between ” thank you… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Culum…

Good, you are seeing the value of NOT jumping through their hoops… it’s a test and they come back. Good stuff. By this time next year you will have your harem.

On this ““You can make it up to me when we meet :)”” – I’d nix that. Why prime ASD? Just text her to meet up and go from there.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Culum – here is the underlying reason your text isn’t good… It subtly still frames her as the prize, like she can do something for you. The prize is she GETS to BE with you, she is lucky. That’s your mindset now.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

Sentient – good point re ASD. I don’t have to send that particular text but I want to send something to acknowledge her reaching out.

My thinking is:

She flaked on me – I withdrew my attention – she’s chasing me now – so I want to give her some positive reinforcement and a little nugget of attention to reward her (ie, don’t want to ignore her for like 3 weeks which is how long it is going to be before we can meet up).

After that I can go radio silent till I’m ready to meet up

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

And Culum… George here has some hard questions for you…

http://www.thefightershub.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/a6938aee483397b52c9dde4287380c08.jpg

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

Just saw your second message. I can see the ASD triggering thing (esp since the last time we met it got right up to the naked HJ stage) so I won’t send that text.

But I don’t see how “YOU can make it up to ME” frames her as the prize? It’s just a vaguely sexual innuendo about her apologizing for her rudeness in flaking..

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

Hahaha and I just saw the third. Our posts are crossing..

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
4 years ago

(I was doing great at the gym about 2 months till I injured myself 2-3 weeks ago with bad form on the leg press – I’d done the weight easily before, it was just the form. Started again this morning..have lost some ground but it’s all about consistency and sticking with it so I’m in for the long term)

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“But I don’t see how “YOU can make it up to ME” frames her as the prize? It’s just a vaguely sexual innuendo about her apologizing for her rudeness in flaking..” Still implies there is something that she has that you want, that will “make it up”… Your RESPONDING to her is her reward, you don’t need to be NICE and add more on top of it… Whatever she does you do a little less and she is always chasing right? Or in other words – whose frame are you in??? So something like :”Hey, I’m free Saturday. Let’s meet… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Now the “Hey” girl… start you’re sexy banter with that one… not thirsty though. Pic sounds good. Other thoughts?

having a bad day
having a bad day
4 years ago

@Culum

the girls are likely ovulating and reaching out…lol…(ya, that makes you the alpha stud they want…lol)

re epiphany chick

good call on waiting to respond…lol…

+1 on Sentient’s advice…

or try this:

you: lol…will text when i’m in town again…

then radio silence til you text her for a meetup in town…

re Hey! girl

fly, little birdy, FLY!…lol

good luck!

having a bad day
having a bad day
4 years ago

@Culum

“I’m only back in the big city in 2-3 weeks so hopefully the spark will still be there, but if not no biggie.”

how’s that FI treating you?…lol

good luck!

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Sentient OT:

Tried to give you some backup at CH with this:

comment image

But my comments there go straight into the ozone.

I’ve got Blind Fury on DVD and need to add Kitano’s take on Zatoichi. The DVD is now more expensive than the Blu-Ray. Go figure. DRM sucks.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Culum Getting back to you on your question on hitting a lot of spots in a short time. Here is what I will usually do in an area I want to sarge in for SNL action. I match mobility with what I want to do and the rhythm of the night. So Happy Hours are the first up. Find an area with a lot of bars and hit them on the back end of Happy Hour, after 6PM. I’ve no problem just going into a place, analyzing the sets and if nothing looks too good just leaving. On the the… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

KFG – nice pic. My grandfather invaded Morocco in WWII and across NA to Italy. He was always waiting for some lighter skinned Mohammedan kid to show up looking for him… LOL. He was a great guy.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

There’s a motivational poster version which my Google-fu failed to turn up today. The caption is:

It wasn’t a desert when we got here, Mate.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Culum Your question reminded me of a night last year when everything was closing and I was scurrying around looking in windows… repost for Blax cuz he loves these… mind your bartender!!! Well I’ll share the story of the ballerina. So I was bouncing around, turns out the majority of places where I am shut down at 10. I pass one restaurant with a bar still open, but can see some table stacking in the back. Going to close. Thinking herm, just call it a night. But I cathc a glimpse of a single, from the back of her head.… Read more »

redlight
redlight
4 years ago

My grandfather invaded Morocco in WWII and across NA to Italy

Nice was France:

http://www.bestofniceblog.com/2011/08/27/the-liberation-of-nice-wwii-1944/

The price of nice was:

The battle that day cost the lives of 31 insurgents with 280 injured; the Germans lost 25 of their men and 105 were taken prisoner. (In a side note, some of those prisoners were later made to clear the beaches of mines, and several were killed by exploding mines that they themselves had placed).

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Sentient Oooohhhhhh…….. I believe a man should never come between another man when he’s talking too/working a woman. Bad, bad manners. When I bounced in a strip joint ( and drove the girls to and from the club ), the only part of the job I disliked was when a stripper decided to go home with a customer, and I had to squash it. The girls’ “manager” insisted that I take all of the girls home after closing, no exceptions, and Armando carried a huuuggggeeee blade, so we had an understanding. The 2 adults had made a decision (… Read more »

kobayashii1681
4 years ago

@kfg: will look for that…
You must also want to add “Wara no Tate” & “Harakiri”.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

A man should only ever look after his wife ( most instances ), his daughter and his sister. And the sister thing is iffy.

Sisters can be difficult to look after, unless a man is willing to run some Dread. “No” isn’t enough, “I told you this would happen” is also required. And even then…sisters are still women.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“Wara no Tate”

New one on me. Looks like something I’ll want to see, but not buy.

“Harakiri”

My local library would probably appreciate it if I bought my own copies of that and Samurai Rebellion. To give other people a chance to see them.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ AR ” Sisters can be difficult to look after, unless a man is willing to run some Dread. “No” isn’t enough, “I told you this would happen” is also required. And even then…sisters are still women.” Amen. That’s why I said ” iffy “. I have 3 sisters. 2 were prom/homecoming queens and pageant girls. 1..well…wasn’t. : ) ** but I love them equally ** Oldest sis is drop-dead gorgeous Mensa IQ girl, with zero ” street sense ” and who was extremely socially awkward. Married Fighter pilot, although I questioned him as to whether a Warthog was really… Read more »

enrique
enrique
4 years ago

“We aren’t fragile things you need to defend. We’re people. Keep holding doors open, keep being friendly, just don’t expect things in return; you aren’t owed anything by this world.” To use the millennial online lingo: This.Woman.Sounds.Like.All.Of.Them. It’s almost malfeasance for any man with a son or two, to NOT force them to read this blog (or be aware of Red Pill philosophy) because this is what they are facing. “We aren’t delicate flowers…but hold open the fucking door asshat…and don’t expect even smile…holy.fuck.don’t.ask.me.to.smile..I’m a strong, independent woman…now pay your child support and alimony” The true Alphas, the slicked back… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
4 years ago

““Well, he’s also saying that you are his last resort and he has to stoop to overly submissive, obsessive behavior in order to get with you.” Really love it when a comment plugs in to several blog post at once. Guy is nice to her. Being nice, makes her think that she is his last resort. So he was nice to her because it’s assumed he’s tried to get with women who are much better looking ( or just better overall) than her and it didn’t work. So because an assumed better looking woman didn’t want to, it’s an insulting… Read more »

emilyy96
4 years ago

Rollo I think we understand what ‘nice’ is and who ‘nice guys’ (the real nice guys) are quite well. Most of us do anyway. I know, for example, that the reason unattractive and nerdy/geeky guys are usually nice to me (and most girls) is because it’s a covert sexual strategy. As I said, if these guys suddenly woke up and had abs and a beautiful face, the majority would not be nice at all. In fact, they probably harbor great dislike for girls as evidenced by MGTOW. Meanwhile, if a hot guy is being nice to me, it’s far more… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

Nice guy data point. FR Went to a meetup today. Wine tasting. I was there for free booze, socializing, and maybe to buy a good value wine. I was being nice and not interested in hooking up. There are awkward, Asian, divorced women there that I avoid. So I went to stand next to a blonde and a man instead. The blonde assumes that I’m interested in her. She’s fugly, HB5 tops. I’m not interested. She tells me to move away. Ugh. Obnoxious and fugly and delusional. I happily comply. Mrs. Gamer is far hotter than her. Too many delusional… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Water Cannon Boy
4 years ago

” that the reason unattractive and nerdy/geeky guys are usually nice to me (and most girls) is because it’s a covert sexual strategy.

Hit refresh and you get a few more just like that.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ enrique

“…
or that cab throw mud up on her as she walks on the OUTSIDE near the traffic on the sidewalk.”

Old School right there. Do younger cats even do this anymore?

I watched my daughter and her BF walk up the street a few weeks back. He was walking on the inside.

I turned to the wife and said ” you know this won’t last too long, right?”.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

OK, got it:

Nerdy, sensitive, empathetic guys who aren’t good looking are just pretending to be nice to get into your pants.

Guys who don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves and will next you if pretending to be nice doesn’t get them laid, but who are good looking are really actually nice guys.

AR is right; you are the gift that keeps on giving.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Hmmmm…. where have I heard all of this before?

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago
emilyy96
4 years ago

Most of the times, nerdy and/or unattractive guys are not sensitive or empathetic. They just pretend to be nice because thats the only way they can get you to like them.

But yeah I know its not true.

Yeah, all the unwanted guys of MGTOW are SUCH NICE people!!! /s

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
4 years ago

@Rollo,

Perhaps women jump to such conclusions about “nice” gestures because they understand intrinsically what blue pill beta’s do not. The only thing women have worthy of any exchange is sexual access. A man is better of getting everything else from his male friends. Blue pill men brought up to believe the equalist nonsense simply don’t understand this. Women know full well they have nothing else tangible to offer, so to them, the nice guy is obviously being nice for sex. To them, no other possibility exists.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Rollo commented -” They get offended when even the thought that a man’s service might in some way make her obligated to recognize it, appreciate it or, God forbid, reciprocate it, because it’s entitled to women from men. Men’s altruistic service is part of the old rules expectations that still benefits the Feminine Imperative and thus is a serviceable form of shame when it comes with a new rules obligation of recognition.” This bounced around in my skull for a while. I was contemplating what constitutes a ” Nerd ” ( and not coming up with a satisfactory descriptor ),… Read more »

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Ironic aint it,an alky thinks everybody drinks,a junky thinks everybody uses and a user of people is afraid of being used…

stuffinbox
4 years ago

Confession of a nice guy;Went to a keg party and this drunk chick falls over the fire pit right toward me.I picked her up from the ground to find she had cut her wrist badly on some glass,wrapped it up and had her hold compression and elevate. Loaded her in car calmed her,I was a stranger,took her to ER and waited then gave her ride home,meet parents. She had sobered some by this time,and I was invited back. I dated this one of and on for a few months,never went past 2nd base as I could tell she wasn’t that… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Blax I always find myself referring back to the article that really broke it all down. They’re torn down for expecting the rules to work as they had them explained. They’re torn down for wanting sex, love,acceptance and a happy life and expecting to follow the rules they were told and gasp actually get it! They’re torn down for not wanting to feel the intense physical and psychological pain that comes from loneliness and ostracism after they find out they were lied to. But don’t get off that treadmill, motherfucker. Man up! Mama needs a new pair of shoes and… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@ Blax

Love it. The fun has left the building. All that is left is ditzy and snarky. Ugh!

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@em

You’re an idiot. Stop fucking typing.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@ScribblerG @SJF – I acknowledge he’s knowledgeable, and perhaps the book was good – I bailed on him when I found better PUA sources. But to excuse the flat affect, the dead eyes, the monotone as not being meaningful due him being INTJ is kind of silly. If you do the same, your subcomms are shit too.. Gahhh… Ok. I failed miserably in my attempt at defending the honor of KrauserPua in the manosphere. It is very true that the Brit archetype is a turnoff for us American types is a stumbling block to accepting him. It is also true… Read more »

emilyy96
4 years ago

Blax, 40% of our labor force are females, so I’m sure plenty of things are serviced and built by women. But even if everything you said was true, no guy is entitled to have sex w a girl just cause he’s nice to her or because he works hard. I do recognize that society is indebted to those guys, and I am very nice to them. Unfortunately, being nice to such people makes them think you like them and they end up asking us out, and of course I’m going to reject them, cause im not attracted to them just… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
4 years ago

Holy shit Emily, if I didn’t know any better I’d think you were some guy pulling our legs.

Keep up the good work.

Rollo please never ban the chicks on this site.

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
4 years ago

Anyone young and new to this blog really need to digest what emily has said above. She’s annoying, but she is at least honest. There is nothing wrong with your needs, desires or behavior. You are simply unattractive. All of the nerd shaming is simply the attempt by most females to not feel shallow by saying to you exactly what emily has just said. Most women, rather than feel shallow for judging you by your appearance feel compelled to find a way to make it your fault. They generate terms like “creeper” as a way to do this. The moral… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
4 years ago

Emily, the reason beta men feel contempt towards women isn’t because they feel entitled to sex because they’re doing nice things. They feel that because women string them along to maximize extracting things from them while not only not reciprocating their behavior, but not even respecting them. So what they usually mind is manipulation. What they should learn is that they should offer value only to those who offer it back and stop wasting their energy on being manipulated. This is why I bought flowers for my mother more than for all the girls I’ve ever been with combined. Anyway,… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
4 years ago

‘40% of our labor force are females, so I’m sure plenty of things are serviced and built by women’ Much of our labor force isn’t doing something that advances society and creates prosperity. Many of them are women. Not that there aren’t female engineers or doctors. Diversity consultant, social worker etc aren’t services. I find it hilarious women somehow end up working in teaching or social work making little money to take care of other people’s families when they could take care of their own family. It’s a racket because them not taking care of their families increases the demand… Read more »

Pinelero
Pinelero
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong;

The link in your 22 Mar 8:10 post is a great article on how the Feminist Imperative (i.e Emily and feminist-cabal) are wrecking the lives of young men and even lesbians with their control of the cultural narrative shaming peoples natural sexuality.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“40% of our labor force are females, so I’m sure plenty of things are serviced and built by women.” She says from her lack of lived experience in the field where things are serviced and built. 60% of executive positions are held by women . . . in non-profits. The ‘labor’ force of non-profits have an even higher percentage of women. Non-profits service and build fuck all. I know; I’ve both worked for and at the highest executive positions in non-profits. Women comprise as much as 80% of HR departments. So far as I have ever been able to tell,… Read more »

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