The Price of Nice

Price-of-nice

Well, dammit, here we go again. Just as I’m mid-way through another in-depth post I get stopped by something I can’t ignore. The above ‘post’ has been making the rounds on Twitter and more than a few in the ‘sphere have asked me for my take.

I probably would’ve just blown this off along with the few hundred other incidences of Beta guys (really Average Frustrated Chump in this instance) bemoaning the same lack of cooperation on the part of women to play along with their investment in the old set of books, that was however until I read through the predictable ‘Nice Shaming’ of Mark Pygas here.

“Good guys” are the absolute worst. If you’re going to go on an insane rant every time a woman tells you ‘no,’ you’re not a good guy.

Tumblr user Fenrufenrifenny recently spotted a flyer posted all around town that shamed women for not giving the “good guys a chance” and choosing “scum” men. Just a brief warning, it will probably be the worst thing you’ve ever read.

Proxy male femsplaining aside, no Mark, this isn’t worst thing I’ve ever read from a Nice Guy. In fact, just three years ago the ‘Nice Guys of OK Cupid‘ blog/hashtag made a point of running these Good Guys up the flagpole for the exact same frustrations of dealing with women in the most deductive, old rules way they’ve been taught to deal with women by their own words and conditioning.

You aren’t an original Mark, Hugo Schwyzer beat you to the Nice-Shaming-As-Beta-Game 4 years ago. And just like Hugo you make the same predictable assumptions about men expecting sex for niceties in an era where women exploit and advertise that men doing more chores and making women’s lives easier will lead to sex.

You see shaming Nice Guys for playing by the rules every woman has told him he ought to play by – since his single-mother or feminized father mentioned he should respect women by default to him since 5 years old – is the height of Hypergamous hypocrisy. Every time a woman, or a Vichy Male femsplainer, tells a guy “just be yourself‘ or “women love men who respect women” or in some other way convince him that women’s intimacy is best achieved by being the sensitive, understanding and supportive Beta they’ll need once they can no longer attract an Alpha asshole, all you do is reinforce the Nice Guy you now hate so much.

You see, you don’t get it both ways. You can’t shame and heap derision upon a Nice Guy for believing the same Old Books horse shit you’ve taught him will earn a woman’s favor and love. You don’t get to call him duplicitous when he believes all the “just be yourself” and “in the end women really want Nice men” tropes he’s been fed by the media mouths of a society that’s founded on women’s Hypergamy.

You may think this is some new development, but Nice Shaming has been going on for at least the 4 and a half years I’ve been blogging:

When truly nice guys (80-90% of the masculine sphere) read a line like “Nice Guys are the real jerks” something snaps in their heads. Black is white, up is down and Nice Guys are Jerks. Most Nice Guys have been playing the self-internalized Beta Game, identification scenario out for so long that to read something like this is akin to blaspheme. “Great now all these women I’ve been trying to be so nice too (like they all say they want) really think I’m a jerk?” One would think this would be a moment of clarity for the Nice Guy and he’d realize the truth of what his ‘misogynist’ Game-aware friends had been trying to enlighten him about for so long.

It’s almost like I have to revisit this Nice Guy paradox ever two years or so:

The only way to garner true appreciation, true valuation, truly inspired displays of affection, from women is to covertly imply the risk of losing a high-value Man. Whether the man is even truly of a higher value is irrelevant, only the perception needs to be reinforced for her. Risk of loss is all that factors. Risk of losing an investment in optimizing hypergamy is weighed against her own perceived sexual market value and the effort needed to reinvest in another, potentially higher SMV man. Risk of loss is why her imagination furiously spins the wheel in her head.

That sounds horrible, but the truth often is. Women’s lack of appreciation for the more compassionate natures of men, and their consuming regard for rewarding men that appease their hypergamy is so well proven it’s become predictable enough to develop techniques and behavioral modifications to exploit it (i.e. Game). Most guys would like nothing better than to honestly play the loving, white knight, romantic who women bemoan a lack of in the world. Yet for every sonnet composed, every provision met, every compliment delivered and every well planned candlelit dinner conversation, there’s a woman feverishly fucking her Alpha bad boy in his low rent apartment for fear of losing him to the competition.
However, all that reviewed, it’s good to return to the issues that never really die off, and particularly so in the case of Nice Shaming because as we progress further into a social order that’s become increasingly more comfortable in openly, proudly, embracing Hypergamy the more poignant messages like the one in this posted letter are. Really it’s nothing new for a guy steeped in Blue Pill conditioning to be frustrated with the new set of books on display right before his eyes, but as Open Hypergamy becomes more and more unignorable in real-space as well as in media and open expressions of it, the less men will vent these frustrations so publicly.
The time to worry wont be when guys post open letters like this in dorm hallways, the time to worry is when that ceases altogether.
Women’s continued inability to really understand why a Nice Guy would ever be so frustrated as to post a notice like this only highlights an obliviousness that serves their Hypergamous imperatives. In other words it’s not in women’s Hypergamous interests to understand or sympathize with a guy who’s brought their sexual strategy out into the open.
The reason Nice Shaming still persists after decades is that it actually serves the Feminine Imperative. If you read through the Twitter responses to this note they are all identical to, or variations of the response I’ve outlined in my previous ‘Nice’ guy posts for almost 5 years now. And if this doesn’t convince you that women have a vested interest in not getting why a guy would post such frustration, you can just read the real-time posted response to it:
price-of-nice_2

Dear Sir,

If you’re watching some girl you like getting hurt by another guy STOP WHINING ABOUT IT AND DO SOMETHING. Don’t leave some anonymous note on a dorm wall. If you know someone is being hurt DO. SOME. THING.

If you want to play the “good guy” you need to rethink your intentions. If you’re only doing it for gratification, then you aren’t being the good guy. Did Batman give up on Gotham because people weren’t thanking him for saving the city?

You know what I really want? I want respect. I want people to respect that I’d rather not walk with a stranger in the middle of the night. I want people to respect that I can defend myself. I want people to respect that WOMEN CAN DO THINGS WITHOUT A GENTLEMAN TO HELP.

You want to be a gentlemen and a good guy? Start with changing the way you and other men see women. We aren’t fragile things you need to defend. We’re people. Keep holding doors open, keep being friendly, just don’t expect things in return; you aren’t owed anything by this world.

If you want us to be less afraid of the world, then change the world, don’t change us.

The obliviousness to the original message might seem staggering until you consider that it was likely typed out by a woman with a self-impression of female empowerment. The idea she’s addressing is that it’s the Nice Guy’s fault for not stepping in to “do something” while simultaneously claiming that “women can do things without a man’s help”. That alone would be enough to illustrate the mindset that would respond to a Nice Guy bemoaning women’s duplicity about ‘being Nice’, but she continues to miss the point that the dutiful ‘helping’ he’s offering isn’t help at all, but his disillusionment with his Blue Pill conditioning.

It’s likely he’s oblivious to it, but he’s publicly taken a step into Red Pill awareness and in doing so reveals women’s Hypergamous duplicity. Now, that is what it is, but that step into Red Pill awareness is something that makes women very uncomfortable when they don’t control the narrative about their own Hypergamy. It’s one thing to make Hypergamy ‘open’ in a commercial or in a book by an empowered woman, but let a man reveal it in his perspective and he’s “bitter” or it’s an “insane rant” by a Nice Guy who’s only Nice because he thinks it’ll get him laid.

As I was saying, in the future I expect to see less Nice Shaming as the machinations of Hypergamy becomes part of men’s popular consciousness. The result, like most others brought on by feminine social primacy, will be men taking women at their word – “women can do things without a man’s help” and they “aren’t fragile things you need to defend” – and they’ll get the men they deserve; men who will understand that niceties aren’t in fact exchangeable for appreciation, intimate or otherwise. Their attentions, courtesies and help will be reserved for the women who actually deserve and reciprocate it rather than due to it being some default chivalry that’s expected of them. And they’ll abandon the strong independent women (and even the ones who look like them) to their fates, while they cry about the lack of self-sacrificing ‘real men’ to love and help them when it’s convenient for them.

It’ll take a while. Obviously the same Nice Shaming from a decade ago still manifests like this occasionally, and the predictable “women don’t owe you sex” indignation is still the reflexive response. But as the old exchanges of the old rules are cycled out for the cruel, but accepted, realities that the Red Pill outlines, women will get exactly the men they deserve. Men who will give them respect based on their real personal merits and only offer niceties to the ones who wont spit in their faces or accuse them of sexual harassment for doing so.

As it stands now, Nice Shaming serves as a filter for women’s Hypergamy. The guys who Just Get It don’t post notes like this. Guys who get it learn from that frustration, they adapt, they experiment, they adjust and they develop Game to exploit the real intersexual rules in play, and they don’t make grandiose displays of the real game.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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emilyy96
4 years ago

Well, he’s also saying that you are his last resort and he has to stoop to overly submissive, obsessive behavior in order to get with you.

Also this whole nice guy thing completely ignores the fact that many of us do date, and sleep with (since apparently thats more important, right Sentient?), nice guys. Except those guys happen to have more confidence and don’t end up whining about how girls hate nice guys every time they are rejected.

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
4 years ago

@Pellaeon, You misunderstand me. I’m well past all of this personally. I’ve largely figured it out, and my personal life is now in order. In a way, I realize I am arguing semantics a bit. I guess I just have more sympathy for those left in the matrix than most. Even the women to some degree. I know a married couple that have been on the verge of divorce for years. He’s a nice guy. Their therapist tells them both that the dude simply isn’t being nice enough yet, or she would finally appreciate him. They are both feminists. They… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

“The current crop of teenage girls will be more ruthless then a Chase loan officer. ” this is what I see. AF all the way. these girls got all the material shit they want/need as most are dull normals with no imagination and are happy with a shitty brand name purse and phone. great fucking tight bodies though. yoga pants, no panties, great time to be alive. ruthless is why Jamie Demon is richer than us. I hate his bank and refuse to do business with them. why do I hate him? because I envy him. the fed does his… Read more »

El Cid
El Cid
4 years ago

Well, he’s also saying that you are his last resort and he has to stoop to overly submissive, obsessive behavior in order to get with you.

You’re projecting a lot of motives and emotions upon someone who held doors and carried items and asked for your telephone number, aren’t you? Open the door and watch you struggle under the weight of the items he carried would have been less “obsessive.”

Do you think he’d have done the same for an imaginary woman who was his “first resort?”

newlyaloof
4 years ago

Many moons ago, had a girlfriend cheat on me. My beta price-of-nice ass knew exactly what to do to win her back … I wrote her a poem! Yeah, man! I would dazzler her vag with literary flair and alternating rhyme patterns. Drove 45 minutes to leave it on her porch. WFT was I thinking? Watching too many white-knight 80s movies I guess, like the dude holding the radio above his head playing that In Your Eyes song to show how emotional he was. I look back on that memory and make an audible grunt noise and shake my head… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“Well, he’s also saying that you are his last resort and he has to stoop to overly submissive, obsessive behavior in order to get with you.”

And she wonders why Rollo would like nothing better than to smarten up her chump.

These words should be tattooed on the inside of his eyelids.

Dutchman
Dutchman
4 years ago

@newly

I’ve been taking a lot of time to do things for myself lately. She’s given me some shit tests about it, which I’ve passed. Got some pretty hot desire sex that she initiated a few days ago. Sex is still pretty infrequent though. She’s actually making time for us to be alone together, but generally rebuffs me when I try to initiate. I think “sooooo, here we are laying in bed alone together for the 14,368th time” game just really sucks. I’ve been a lot happier in general though.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“Many moons ago, had a girlfriend cheat on me.” This is what every guy needs to go through, earlier the better. Same story here, lowest moment was not her cheating, it was begging to try and get her back… But two months later I was a ZFG animal! The First Red Pill awakening… I eventually got caught in other snares down the road, with wife and kids, trying to subsume my natural self into a Churchian Good Guy… leading to Second Red Pill awakening! LOL Young guys, get a GF, then with any luck she will cheat on you… then… Read more »

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@Sentient: showing the cheater the door: priceless.
.
At times I think of Diogenes but not looking for an honest man rather a loyal woman. I know there is not one but the looking is fun.

Agent P
Agent P
4 years ago

@seraph, reading your thoughts about Glover and covert contracts, not banging your room mates sister etc. Got me thinking about part of the huge blow back from Nice Guys I believe is that women innately take advantage of nice guys for all manner of reasons. (Right we all know that!) Women knowingly lay down just enough bread crumbs (Their own fake nice which reads as nice reciprocity) to get their desired outcome. It’s when the AFC has been strung along for the 1001st time on a few false leads by some girl who is just being “nice”, and his 1001st… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Rollo

I was reading this article before I had a reader hit me up to address the note in this post.

I remember being on 4chan a day or two after that happened and reading about all that. I wasn’t quite sure what to make of it. Anonymous may very well be where awareness of hypergamy among AFCs really takes hold. The problem is that their version of awareness actually is incredibly bitter and vindictive.

It’s not gonna be pretty as Beta awareness gains momentum if that’s where they’re getting their insights from.

emilyy96
4 years ago

El Cid, well that comment wasn’t really directed to that guy. I hold nothing against him. It’s kind of annoying that he doesn’t help me like that ever since I rejected him (which proves he was just doing it to get with me) but, I’m sure he’s a decent person. However, if he’s still sulking about it, as if he feels he’s entitled to have sex with me just cause he held some books for me, then thats a different story. I really don’t like people like that. Especially when they say ‘oh, she won’t date nice guys, she only… Read more »

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
4 years ago

@Is this thing on I understood what you were getting at, and I can even agree with your semantics to a certain extent, but I was aiming at the deeper motivation. I would suggest you re-examine just how much you’ve personally moved on. The tone and tenacity of your arguing the point speaks to a deeper personal investment. To use myself as an example, there were several comments I’ve made over the past few years where I was “simply arguing the semantics” about MGTOW. Others would basically point to “well you are just saying that because you can’t get laid.”… Read more »

Vitriol
Vitriol
4 years ago

@fleezer “this is what I see. AF all the way. these girls got all the material shit they want/need as most are dull normals with no imagination and are happy with a shitty brand name purse and phone. great fucking tight bodies though. yoga pants, no panties, great time to be alive.” Women lose interest in the overwhelming majority of men and only have sex with the biggest, loudest goon on a drunken karaoke night a few times a year. They’re happy with iphones, designer shoes and handbags, pills, boxed wine, cats, and on-demand television. Most men (non-alphas which are… Read more »

corypheus
corypheus
4 years ago

“Then again, there are many nice guys only being nice to you to get in your pants and that is infuriating…” Ya know what? I’m calling bullshit on this one. No one acts nice *just* to get in a girls pants. Nice guys want serious girlfriends, not fuck buddies. It’s like if someone is asking you for a pb & j sandwich. You give them a sandwich that’s only jelly, and then they complain that they want peanut butter also. Solipsism makes you think that the dude was acting nice only to get your peanut butter. Just to be clear… Read more »

scray
scray
4 years ago

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh….. this is another one of those ‘overcorrection’ things. a lot of Nice Guys (through painstaking effort, yes) do manage to get sex, buying gifts, being an emotional tampon long enough to catch her at one time or another. if you don’t believe me that this can work, just start LYING. go lie to a girl and tell her all the things you’ll do for her. just lie your ass off and kiss her ass. you won’t become the next Casanova, but ya, you will be surprised that you will GET SOMEWHERE. like, it wouldn’t be such a pervasive strategy… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
4 years ago

“El Cid, well that comment wasn’t really directed to that guy. I hold nothing against him. It’s kind of annoying that he doesn’t help me like that ever since I rejected him (which proves he was just doing it to get with me) but, I’m sure he’s a decent person.” Emily is the gift that just keeps on giving. Of, course he was trying to ‘get with you’, your physical and emotional intimacy is the ONLY intrinsic value you have to men. Your annoyance is disingenuous because you know that you collect beta orbiters (the female version of spinning plates)… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Rollo This feminism certainly has things to answer for; in addition to its penchant for sabotaging its own allies, it must be challenged on the damage it has done to university life with its militant opposition to free speech. But only one side of this new Internet gender rivalry is producing killers, and despite what polemicists such as Yiannopoulos are saying, it isn’t the feminists. And the end of that article certainly confirms that feminist heads are buried deep in the sand over the issue. They really can’t see that if you spend enough time stabbing a man in the… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

My reaction to the accusations of misogynist, sexist, and chauvinist these days is to grin and say “Yeah I am. So what are you gonna do about it?”

I never get words as an answer. Just flustered snorts, incoherent rambling, or shocked laughs. Much better than the shame parade of the past.

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Chump

you know that you must continue to bait them with the possibility of intimacy to keep them coming back.

This. It sure as hell ain’t her winning personality that keeps them around. That much is plain as day.

ace
ace
4 years ago

milyy96

March 21st, 2016 at 10:09 am

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
4 years ago

“If that’s hard to understand… do a role reversal. Do you care if a girl is a nice person? I doubt it.” Well, the short answer is ‘yes,’ but I thought about it a bit in combination with this from @Seraph: “THIS is the essence of the Nice Guy problem; why they get stuck as orbiters and in the Friend Zone. At least it was with me, and I think it applies to many. Men are taught to suppress any expression of sexuality unless you are of the vaunted AF, and even then, your better watch your ass! [….] The… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

@KFG – Please accept my heartfelt condolences. Having lost my mom long ago and my Dad two years ago, I can understand how profound the loss of a parent is. When my Dad passed, I was so present to the ineffable nature of the connection to him, despite all the abuse and distance there was and in fact, the connection that remained was all the more notable due to those circumstances. That experience actually spoke to the validity of some of the evo psych we discuss here. My connection to my Dad is born out of ‘attachment’ psychology and was… Read more »

Fred Flange, Kylo Ren and Stimpy
Fred Flange, Kylo Ren and Stimpy
4 years ago

The Baffler piece actually is somewhat open-eyed here and there, then shuts tight at the end with the wisecrack that “only” nice guy betas produce killers. A usual blind spot, like saying all cis-het men are rapey rapists because of the 1% who are indeed serial rapists, who do all the damage until they’re caught if ever, but you get more click bait for shaming the 99% for the 1% sins. Last I checked Eric Harris – the Columbine co-shooter – had girlfriends and was a bully, not a geek. Klebold was severely clinically depressed, open to suggestion. The femosphere… Read more »

redlight
redlight
4 years ago

@Rollo

I can see why it is called the Baffler. Angela Nagle is doing donuts in a pussy literary parking lot.

Black Label Logic
4 years ago

The core problem is that females do in fact feel like they are owed something, namely for men to treat them differently than they would treat other men. However, they feel like they are owed this without giving anything in return.

It used to be that women respected male behavior, and didn’t magically expect it to change when men were around women. Now, women expect men to adapt to their preferred behavior when the genders are mixed.

I think its about time men start demanding respect.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Scribbler:

I’ve already stipulated that I’m an atheist of the variety who was born unable to believe, but I can appreciate the sentiment.

And of course that from the rest of you as well.

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

@Rollo – Isn’t “Beta Revolt” an oxymoron? The reason they are betas is because they are scared to revolt. Which gets me to my other points on this essay, another brilliant one for sure, thanks. You see, it’s not that being a nice guy is honest or dishonest, it’s that men have to be broken in order to turn them into nice guys. Men are shamed and beaten and screamed at and cajoled to subsume their instincts in order to become nice guys and it’s not easy. It’s even worse in that we are told not to pursue what we… Read more »

scray
scray
4 years ago

@forge “To Seraph’s point above, it’s not really necessary for a guy to be a jerk to be attractive. He can be ‘nice’ too. But it needs to be a masculine nice. And” this. like…you CAN be a jerk/destructive/reactive and whatever and STILL get laid and get women, but it’s not BECAUSE of those traits. first and foremost you have to STOP BEING A PUSSY. if you WANT something make moves to get it. and if you’re inexperienced, better to make sloppy ‘creepy’ moves for it than nothing at all. people who say ‘game doesn’t exist’ or you can’t create… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“you grab her wrist/arm and look at her watch or something on her wrist/arm/hand…and you remark on it quickly. THEN, 1) hard eye contact on her 2) let your hands drop (keep holding it) 3) MAKE THE MOST BORING SMALL TALK EVER IMAGINED…literally just ‘so what do you do? what are you studying? blah blah blah fucking blah’ and just keep holding her hand and caressing it. it is SUPER IMPORTANT that you not even acknowledge the kino AT ALL, like a goddamned boss. go out and try this. even on a girl who seems meh toward you.” In other… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

“…a lot of Nice Guys (through painstaking effort, yes) do manage to get sex” “…like, it wouldn’t be such a pervasive strategy if it didn’t occasionally work…” “women still tend to end up married to and in long relationships with these people and tend to have their children… (these strategies don’t develop if they don’t work reasonably well…” exactly… guys can and do get laid and married being nice or being beta or both. It is the overwhelming majority of guys. and most (attractive) girls you meet ARE actually fucking a guy like this (and maybe other FB’s)… they are… Read more »

scray
scray
4 years ago

@sentient

“In other words the exact GLL “screening” method from the Plan B post…”

not at the beginning of the interaction. maybe a minute or two in.

and also not the way he does it where it’s very clipped. like seem enthusiastic about the small talk, even though it’s boring small talk.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Hehe. I think Chris WAS trying to be enthusiastic… LOL

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

kfg I’m a pretty unhappy camper at the moment, but it seems, in the end, she made one last gift to me. She set me free. Condolences. Relative of mine was the only adult in the room when his mother died. He had to deal with a lot of semi insane behavior from siblings. I asked him how he was doing, one thing he said stuck: “I only have to plan Mom’s funeral once. I can do that, and do it right. The rest of the family can’t do it, or won’t do it, and they’ll regret that for a… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Ang Aamer

This suffering man could have just shrugged and moved on. But no, he wrote down his pain and posted it publicly. And then someone saw it, snapped it and now it has a much wider distribution. Information is only viral when it has passed through the early adopters 2 sigma outside the mean.

In a couple of ways it resembles Spreadsheet Man from last year.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

My condolences kfg.

My respect for you just rose another 100 miles.

YaReally
4 years ago

@scray @forge @sentient @seraph “you CAN be a jerk/destructive/reactive and whatever and STILL get laid and get women, but it’s not BECAUSE of those traits. first and foremost you have to STOP BEING A PUSSY. if you WANT something make moves to get it. ” It’s not about being an asshole/jerk, it’s about being congruent and going for what you want. You can do that in a positive value-giving way without being an asshole. The problem Nice Guys have is that they aren’t actually congruent, they just think and act like they are…the reality is they WANT the girl but… Read more »

YaReally
4 years ago

@kfg
Sorry to hear it dude.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

SD I’ve come to discover that dating as we and our parents knew it in High School is effectively over. Teenage girls either bang Alphas or stand fast while using orbiters as financial and emotional appliances. Those guys have better luck becoming astronauts then getting into her pants under the “First Set of Books”. High school social life appears to be clumps of teens, with a few that pair off almost covertly for a time. Given the increased earning, political, and social power of women today , it’s debatable whether they even need Betas anymore from a finance perspective. I’m… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

All of this envy talk….fuck.

Really?

Never envy or be jealous of another man, or what he has or does.

You may be ” inspired ” or ” motivated “, but never envious or jealous.

Envy is a weakness. It is an extremely weak reaction.

just my 2 cents ( but I am right )

YaReally
4 years ago

@Sentient 9:50 in that GLL vid, the girl is literally pushing him away trying to escape him as he spergily plows forward completely oblivious to her social cues. That’s shitty calibration. Hey scray when if you try your check out her watch move and she yanks her hand away and tries to run away, do you chase her down grabbing at her wrist? Meanwhile watch Julien at 7:35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdQWH0KF4OI&list=PLHLU56wXs0Ng38fmxqvMR0YiDwjWhhCAo&t=7m35s He lightly holds her hand up there to test if she’ll naturally wrap it around his neck (compliance/trust/attraction) without acknowledging it and when she doesn’t he lets go and lets her… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Lol…. ^^^^ should’ve been posted in the prior comment thread. ‘Scuse me.

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

OT: Just helped pick up my friend’s Hayabusa from the shop since he’s not in town to do it. Truly the absolute worst bike I’ve ever driven. Horrible ergonomics, burns fuel like its going out of style, handles horribly, so long that it’s an absolute bitch to park in my cramped garage, but that engine is rather more impressive than what Thompson played with. Unfortunately this particular specimen needs a lot more work before I’d trust it to the ungoverned 220mph it’s set up for (I’ve had it to 120 in 3rd already), so I consider it a really fucking… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

@Rollo – ….”as the old exchanges of the old rules are cycled out for the cruel, but accepted, realities that the Red Pill outlines, women will get exactly the men they deserve. Men who will give them respect based on their real personal merits and only offer niceties to the ones who wont spit in their faces or accuse them of sexual harassment for doing so.” I agree with everything you are stating in this post except how things will change. Each women is already getting what she deserves as a result of how she plays the game and her… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

@Sun, the femosphere is scared shitless of “radicalized” Beta nice guys. Their mistake is the belief that TRP, MGTOW, R9K, PUAHate, etc. “radicalizes” them, but the truth is that it’s women’s embrace of Open Hypergamy and the present state of intersexual dynamics that radicalizes them far more efficiently than the manosphere ever could. Yes, it’s the old Gaslight gag where women demand that men believe their words rather than what men’s own eyes tell them. This grows out of the female nature for plausible deniability. One possible path in the future: tighter control of teh interwebs to shut down “misogyny”… Read more »

newlyaloof
4 years ago

@Blax, yeah, I don’t wear sports jerseys because I’m not wearing another man’s name on my back. And going back to your previous post about older dudes staying healthy, I agree. I’m early 40s and I notice more aches and pains and energy drains. Been trying different things to get energy. Here’s my supplements FR this far: Sage Oil – does a great job in balancing my mood and allows me to keep frame control better. Tastes good in apple juice. Maca Powder – it’s in the broccoli family, but they don’t tell you that it tastes like shitty broccoli… Read more »

scray
scray
4 years ago

@ya

“This needs a bit of nuance so lurking newbies don’t get the wrong idea.”

ya…..

lol IMO it’s ADVANCED and requires subcomms that IME only got there after i built internals that came from escalating in more normal ways.

like once you start fucking a lot of hot girls, then shit man….the rest can just smell it on you in how you talk and walk and act..

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Blaximus
Envy is a weakness. It is an extremely weak reaction.

It’s also rather feminine. Listen to the gossip of women, or as Elspeth’s husband calls it “bird twittering”, and eventually some envy will show up, maybe disguised as “praise” or “support”.

One of the signs of a feminized man? Envy.

For those who go to church, envy is a flavor of “coveting”…

YaReally
4 years ago

@scray Right, but we can isolate things to just “verbals” by looking at online game where you’re building sexual attraction just through “verbals” without them being able to see how you walk or feel how you touch etc. I only make this a point because we know from field experience that pure verbals can build sexual attraciton…the most blatant example is that a LOT of my game was done over txt back when I did a lot of online game and when txting wasn’t such a swamp of chodes, and I was spiking sexual attraction all over the place with… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@YaReally You can make verbally bold moves and verbally escalate and spark attraction. I VERY rarely kino in my sets, especially on Day2s. But all of my verbals are showing my intent and escalating things and spiking her sexual triggers. Every date I had in the past (including the first with my ex) that actually lead to sex involved making sure to get kino early and often. Hand on lower back guiding her in when I got to the venue, test her personal space and see if she leaves, tell stories that let me get contact as much as possible,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@AR

One possible path in the future: tighter control of teh interwebs to shut down “misogyny” sites, leading to Red Pill underground, leading to more efforts to further control the web…

I’ve already run in to places with public wifi and web filters that will allow any number of vicious feminist sites through but mark this site as banned for “Hate”. Whatta world.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

newlyaloof Some nights, I feel like I can’t even get past 8:00 pm before I want to fall asleep, but with kids, that is impossible. Lifting helps with energy, but not for the full day. What’s your T? What’s your Vit. D? What’s your ferritine? Low T basicallly leads a man to act like a woman; emotion, borderline depression, etc. Ferritine: I’ve been reading up on iron, and have become convinced it’s behind a number of bad health issues such as heart trouble, prostate trouble, etc. Seriously, even with children that’s not a good sign. Get blood work done. You… Read more »

redlight
redlight
4 years ago

@sun

Ultimately I decided to avoid the threesome and let them do their thing

Sometimes you just gotta swing for the fences, drama be damned

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

Side note: it never hurts to be a white boy that had a largely black marching band in high school. All the other majority white schools in the county wouldn’t dance during a routine but we would. The lessons from there pay off every time I’m up in a club. White boy that can move and has fun doing it? The girls love it.

YaReally
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong “Every date I had in the past (including the first with my ex) that actually lead to sex involved making sure to get kino early and often.” How many did you purposely try not kino’ing and purposely try building sexual attraction through other means? I’m not saying it doesn’t help or it should be avoided, I’m simply saying that it’s not NECESSARY. Just like peacocking is useful but isn’t NECESSARY. Or demonstrating leadership of men is useful but it isn’t NECESSARY. Kino is just another tool in the box to show that you’re comfortable with women/sex but it’s… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@redlight

I know, I know. Still self-limiting on shit like that after a couple brushes with near fights and having bottles thrown at me. Give a guy a break; the last time I found myself facing people angry to the point of assault so often was high school and early college. Back then I’d throw down with anybody.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Emilyslut A lot of so called nice guys aren’t genuine alpha enough for me. A lot of the ‘nice guys’ I’ve rejected were plain unattractive and awkward too Beta. So, they ran with the only ‘game’ they had, which was to be nice and hope to get a date by being kind and polite. I’m sure if they suddenly transformed into a hot guy overnight they wouldn’t be so nice anymore. FIFY Dearie, you are a gift that keeps on giving, it’s like you are here just to prove Rollo and the rest of us right, day after day. Nice… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Sun: Think I’m going to order a copy of The World’s Fastest Indian. I think I could use watching that again in a few days and I’ll I know I’ll watch it at least a few more times after that. If I can’t be Sir Richard Francis Burton when I grow up, I want to be Burt Munro. And maybe a copy of The Flying Scotsman and be a cross between Munro and Graeme Obree – less the suicidal depression and teh gay. @Newly Aloof: ” I don’t wear sports jerseys because I’m not wearing another man’s name on my… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Sun:

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

At age 16 or so, I wrestled with the idea of whether or not I should murder the ” nice guy ” inside of me, and bury him somewhere that even cadaver dogs would never be able to sniff him out. I spent many years in an environment where ” niceness ” was seen as a weakness. Men’s reaction’s were much more deadly than even the female’s. I’d developed a strong aversion to allowing other people or circumstances force me to change my ways to a great extent. I had a line. So my conclusion was to treat everybody nice.… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
4 years ago

“Envy is a weakness. It is an extremely weak reaction.” lol. everyone here is fucking weak. “Margarita Louis-Dreyfus, a Russian-born Swiss businesswoman who owns the French football club Olympique de Marseille, has given birth to twin girls at the age of 53, her spokeswoman said on Monday. “The mother and babies are doing well,” the spokeswoman said in an email to AFP, confirming press reports at the weekend. Louis-Dreyfus, who will be 54 in June, inherited the group Louis-Dreyfus Commodities, a 160-year-old giant in the world commodities business, after her husband Robert Louis-Dreyfus died in 2009. They had three boys… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@fleezer

lol. everyone here is fucking weak.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/190/239/dis16165_1277568096266.jpg

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

In the same vein, I don’t allow women to use pussy as currency with me. That reminds me of an old barber I used to know, pushing 70 and still cutting hair because that’s what he knew best. He had by then a one chair shop. Told me stories from the 50’s, gossip from the last week. One time he got off on women who try to peddle pussy, and how some broad once tried to get him to cut her two little boys hair in exchange for (he made an ethnic hand gesture for “vagina”). “I told her hell,… Read more »

kobayashii1681
4 years ago

” You want to be a gentlemen and a good guy? Start with changing the way you and other men see women. We aren’t fragile things you need to defend. We’re people. Keep holding doors open, keep being friendly, just don’t expect things in return; you aren’t owed anything by this world.”

😂😂😂😂😂

I know I shouldn’t even be slightly moved by this but holy shit…I LOVE BEING A MAN, and an RP man at that!!!

kobayashii1681
4 years ago

” If you want us to be less afraid of the world, then change the world, don’t change us.”

😂😂😑😑😁😁😂😂😂😂😂

The medium is the fucking message.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

” If you want us to be less afraid of the world, then change the world, don’t change us.”

There’s the foundation of “Yes Means Yes Until It Doesn’t”, right there;
female solipsism.

kobayashii1681
4 years ago

The game was meant to be sold, not to told… Was watching a bit of anime…Sword Art Online II: guns, swords, virtual world, in a nutshell… So there’s this chic, Shinnon who is basically the Lara croft of that world…and there’s a dude Kirito who is the effeminate looking kenshi (swordsman) who basically serves as your (tempered) alpha… Buuuttt, not one to be shielded from FI pervasiveness, there’s this “good friend” of Shinnon, who worships her…clearly wants to bang the girl… So after some upsets by Kirito, Shinnon is indignant and wants to defeat him in competition in their virtual… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

” lol. everyone here is fucking weak. ”

Speak for yourself bruh.

Give zero fucks about what others are doing and concentrate on yourself at all times.

Once I learned about fiat currency, I never sweated other people’s money ever again. It’s like being emotionally and physically involved in the goings on of a soap opera.

There. Is. No. Spoon.

YaReally
4 years ago

So much cringe on so many levels lol:

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

lmao….

kobayashii1681
4 years ago
Reply to  prosperingman

@prosperingman: I don’t even think it’s ignorance or narcissism…
It’s just they way women are, compounded by being in an environment without negative feedback, they continue to conspicuously push for excess….
In essence part of this attitude, situation, frustration…is brought about because men cannot be “told” by women how to be men….as Rollo has written we need to ‘just get it’…
As men, we have a responsibility to be the best version of ourselves….for us…nature makes this better for women too, and more importantly our children…

kobayashii1681
4 years ago
Reply to  kfg

@kfg: condolences bruv…

kobayashii1681
4 years ago
Reply to  rugby11

@rugby11: best of luck with that mate…just remember, do what you can…but don’t let him drag you into the murky waters…

Striver
Striver
4 years ago

“Nice guyz, read Emilyslut’s words – she wants “kind and polite” but only in a man she’s already attracted to. “Kind and polite” first get nowhere with her.” I’m convinced that for women, there are sexy and icky ways a man can do just about anything. Including being nice. I knew guys who were nice, kind of effeminate men when I was growing up, and they did better with women than many who were more masculine. Don’t know if it was the fact they were less threatening gave them an easier in. Usually guys like that have better social skills… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

It is not possible for anyone to perform a truly selfless act. We all, no matter what, automatically consider how our thoughts and actions will effect us. It is impossible to take any action without considering how the action relates to us. If we were capable of taking action without considering ourselves, then how could any action be executed? To evaluate an action as selfless, it must be considered in terms of how it relates to self. Otherwise, no such evaluation is possible. There is no such thing as selflessness unless there is no self.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

We had fun with Trainor’s vid on a previous thread.

She’s 22 years old. Do I have to go on in detail?

Sure will be fun to watch her in about…7 years. She’s a bit pudgy already, full up porkarama is quite possible.

In a just world, every single man she wants as she approaches the Wall would reply with this video. No words. No explanations. Just this vid.

Alas, I’m sure there will be a thirsty Betaboy when she wants one. Such is the way of the world.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ AR

” ….She’s a bit pudgy already, full up porkarama is quite possible. ”

Lol, a bit pudgy?

All of the make up and angles and lighting and hair coloring and fish netting can’t hide the fact…

http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Stevanmbg+rolled+image+_99d757e8dd7e80951866f55422f92140.jpg

Fred Flange, Weeknd Drndl
Fred Flange, Weeknd Drndl
4 years ago

Bet the song was written by a gay Swede! Most top 20 songs are these days.

Same as it ever was: Nancy Sinatra’s “These Boots Are Made For Walkin'” was written by Lee Hazelwood.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Kobayashii: “condolences bruv…” Thank you. “Was watching a bit of anime…Sword Art Online II” Made it about half way through the first season, when Kirito turned into ninja Jesus and Asuna turned into a pair of bubble headed tits. It did start pretty strong though, so the turn to the weak side was extra disappointing. I think Madoka Magica was the last series I made it all the way through. Put me down as one of those who thinks the genre is going through an ebb phase at the moment. Bearing in mind that I’m not exactly the target audience… Read more »

trackback

[…] [1]http://therationalmale.com/2016/03/20/the-price-of-nice […]

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“She’s a bit pudgy already . . .”

Well I guess it’s true then, fat is the new skinny.

Fred Flange, Weeknd Drndl
Fred Flange, Weeknd Drndl
4 years ago

Ok, song not by Max Martin. Some guy did cowrite it. She won’t fuck him either.

kobayashii1681
4 years ago
Reply to  newlyaloof

@newlyaloof: “WTF was I thinking?”
😂😂😂😂
Many of us have been there bruh….not a good look!

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/wpgo/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/michael-goguen-amber-baptiste-1.jpg

How much money would Starbuck above… a centimillionare VC… pay a stripper…

http://canmua.net/data_3/exsequoia-capital-partner-countersues-in-sex-abuse-case_6rPRrpkAS.jpg

who looked like this?

Would $40M be enough, with $10M down?

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03/michael-goguen-sequoia-sex-abuse-case-silicon-valley

Is that what we mean when we say the Price of Nice?

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

darn 3 link mod…

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kfg

Made it about half way through the first season

kfg watches anime?

comment image

Well color me shocked.

SAO was well animated and shit written. SAO II was well animated and even worse written. Log Horizon was actually a pretty enjoyable series (though not as well animated) following the “trapped in an MMO” premise. Has a very Machiavellian bent to it. Give it a try if you haven’t. You might enjoy it.

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Rollo-

Zfg at the collective thought of ” give me the moon and stars ” crap from minds such as those.

Their thoughts strike my ears as so much static.

The New Rules are that Strong Independent types will be issued a new tool box with carefully written instructions on how to fix your own shit.

Those fears alluded to will always be present. They’re pretty hardwired. That’s what husbands and family ( fathers ) are for.

Destroy that and pay the accompanying price.

redlight
redlight
4 years ago

@fred Bet the song was written by a gay Swede! Most top 20 songs are these days You would be wrong (don’t bet). Trainor is a songwriter first. Her two co-writers on the song (one being the producer) are finishers (they add hooks), and not Swedish (like Max Martin). It is a deliberate attempt to write a hit and be a FI hit: Trainor revealed label director L.A. Reid, told the singer she didn’t have a proper lead single yet for her upcoming album: “he said I have an album of Nice Meghan”. Trainor said it took little time to… Read more »

Eon56
Eon56
4 years ago

@ scribblerg “You see, it’s not that being a nice guy is honest or dishonest, it’s that men have to be broken in order to turn them into nice guys. Men are shamed and beaten and screamed at and cajoled to subsume their instincts in order to become nice guys and it’s not easy.” It’s disturbing how they do it too. I feel like they take some kind of pleasure in it, breaking their little boys I mean. I too was pretty rebellious and difficult growing up. Aggressive too. 6th grade is about when I got broken in as well.… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

Also while I’m at it taking a geek moment:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/961/845/210.jpg

The manliest anime to have ever manned. Probably the only show on any medium I’ve seen in a couple decades that unabashedly celebrates masculine men. There’s BP moments here and there, but there’s never a hateful moment for men that love just being men.

KP
KP
4 years ago

emily666,

which proves he was just doing it to get with me

It proves no such thing! Rather it shows — that he went out of his way to be nice and helpful to you — and then asked for further contact with you — and then you sh*t all over him* — and now he’s wisely keeping his distance.

*Despite your devout Catholicism.

stuffinbox
4 years ago

A remark made by the wife of Argentocoxus,a Caldonian,to Julia Agusta.
“We fulfill the demands of nature in a much better way than do you Roman women;For we consort openly with the best men,whereas you let yourselves be debauched in secret by by the vilest.”

The Celtic matriarchy,disorganized was absorbed by the Roman empire.
This current matriarch empire is much larger than any that could absorb it.

We may see this run its full coarse .

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

….*Despite your devout Catholicism.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaaaaa!!!!!

Anyone that believes the “devout Catholicism” bullshit, I have a Bridge in Brooklyn I’d sell you a rock bottom price.

Eon56
Eon56
4 years ago

@ Sunwukong

What’s that one called

scribblerg
scribblerg
4 years ago

@Eon56 – On the plus side it makes it really easy to ignore any grief now. Best part? The subtle look of panic in their eyes when they realize they have no power over you.

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Eon56

Derp, thought I had linked a pic with the name on it. My bad. Gurren Lagann.

It’s over the top, fun, ridiculous, and just owns up to what it is without a moment of doubt. Really well animated to boot. One of my absolute all time favorites.

636
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