The Price of Nice

Price-of-nice

Well, dammit, here we go again. Just as I’m mid-way through another in-depth post I get stopped by something I can’t ignore. The above ‘post’ has been making the rounds on Twitter and more than a few in the ‘sphere have asked me for my take.

I probably would’ve just blown this off along with the few hundred other incidences of Beta guys (really Average Frustrated Chump in this instance) bemoaning the same lack of cooperation on the part of women to play along with their investment in the old set of books, that was however until I read through the predictable ‘Nice Shaming’ of Mark Pygas here.

“Good guys” are the absolute worst. If you’re going to go on an insane rant every time a woman tells you ‘no,’ you’re not a good guy.

Tumblr user Fenrufenrifenny recently spotted a flyer posted all around town that shamed women for not giving the “good guys a chance” and choosing “scum” men. Just a brief warning, it will probably be the worst thing you’ve ever read.

Proxy male femsplaining aside, no Mark, this isn’t worst thing I’ve ever read from a Nice Guy. In fact, just three years ago the ‘Nice Guys of OK Cupid‘ blog/hashtag made a point of running these Good Guys up the flagpole for the exact same frustrations of dealing with women in the most deductive, old rules way they’ve been taught to deal with women by their own words and conditioning.

You aren’t an original Mark, Hugo Schwyzer beat you to the Nice-Shaming-As-Beta-Game 4 years ago. And just like Hugo you make the same predictable assumptions about men expecting sex for niceties in an era where women exploit and advertise that men doing more chores and making women’s lives easier will lead to sex.

You see shaming Nice Guys for playing by the rules every woman has told him he ought to play by – since his single-mother or feminized father mentioned he should respect women by default to him since 5 years old – is the height of Hypergamous hypocrisy. Every time a woman, or a Vichy Male femsplainer, tells a guy “just be yourself‘ or “women love men who respect women” or in some other way convince him that women’s intimacy is best achieved by being the sensitive, understanding and supportive Beta they’ll need once they can no longer attract an Alpha asshole, all you do is reinforce the Nice Guy you now hate so much.

You see, you don’t get it both ways. You can’t shame and heap derision upon a Nice Guy for believing the same Old Books horse shit you’ve taught him will earn a woman’s favor and love. You don’t get to call him duplicitous when he believes all the “just be yourself” and “in the end women really want Nice men” tropes he’s been fed by the media mouths of a society that’s founded on women’s Hypergamy.

You may think this is some new development, but Nice Shaming has been going on for at least the 4 and a half years I’ve been blogging:

When truly nice guys (80-90% of the masculine sphere) read a line like “Nice Guys are the real jerks” something snaps in their heads. Black is white, up is down and Nice Guys are Jerks. Most Nice Guys have been playing the self-internalized Beta Game, identification scenario out for so long that to read something like this is akin to blaspheme. “Great now all these women I’ve been trying to be so nice too (like they all say they want) really think I’m a jerk?” One would think this would be a moment of clarity for the Nice Guy and he’d realize the truth of what his ‘misogynist’ Game-aware friends had been trying to enlighten him about for so long.

It’s almost like I have to revisit this Nice Guy paradox ever two years or so:

The only way to garner true appreciation, true valuation, truly inspired displays of affection, from women is to covertly imply the risk of losing a high-value Man. Whether the man is even truly of a higher value is irrelevant, only the perception needs to be reinforced for her. Risk of loss is all that factors. Risk of losing an investment in optimizing hypergamy is weighed against her own perceived sexual market value and the effort needed to reinvest in another, potentially higher SMV man. Risk of loss is why her imagination furiously spins the wheel in her head.

That sounds horrible, but the truth often is. Women’s lack of appreciation for the more compassionate natures of men, and their consuming regard for rewarding men that appease their hypergamy is so well proven it’s become predictable enough to develop techniques and behavioral modifications to exploit it (i.e. Game). Most guys would like nothing better than to honestly play the loving, white knight, romantic who women bemoan a lack of in the world. Yet for every sonnet composed, every provision met, every compliment delivered and every well planned candlelit dinner conversation, there’s a woman feverishly fucking her Alpha bad boy in his low rent apartment for fear of losing him to the competition.
However, all that reviewed, it’s good to return to the issues that never really die off, and particularly so in the case of Nice Shaming because as we progress further into a social order that’s become increasingly more comfortable in openly, proudly, embracing Hypergamy the more poignant messages like the one in this posted letter are. Really it’s nothing new for a guy steeped in Blue Pill conditioning to be frustrated with the new set of books on display right before his eyes, but as Open Hypergamy becomes more and more unignorable in real-space as well as in media and open expressions of it, the less men will vent these frustrations so publicly.
The time to worry wont be when guys post open letters like this in dorm hallways, the time to worry is when that ceases altogether.
Women’s continued inability to really understand why a Nice Guy would ever be so frustrated as to post a notice like this only highlights an obliviousness that serves their Hypergamous imperatives. In other words it’s not in women’s Hypergamous interests to understand or sympathize with a guy who’s brought their sexual strategy out into the open.
The reason Nice Shaming still persists after decades is that it actually serves the Feminine Imperative. If you read through the Twitter responses to this note they are all identical to, or variations of the response I’ve outlined in my previous ‘Nice’ guy posts for almost 5 years now. And if this doesn’t convince you that women have a vested interest in not getting why a guy would post such frustration, you can just read the real-time posted response to it:
price-of-nice_2

Dear Sir,

If you’re watching some girl you like getting hurt by another guy STOP WHINING ABOUT IT AND DO SOMETHING. Don’t leave some anonymous note on a dorm wall. If you know someone is being hurt DO. SOME. THING.

If you want to play the “good guy” you need to rethink your intentions. If you’re only doing it for gratification, then you aren’t being the good guy. Did Batman give up on Gotham because people weren’t thanking him for saving the city?

You know what I really want? I want respect. I want people to respect that I’d rather not walk with a stranger in the middle of the night. I want people to respect that I can defend myself. I want people to respect that WOMEN CAN DO THINGS WITHOUT A GENTLEMAN TO HELP.

You want to be a gentlemen and a good guy? Start with changing the way you and other men see women. We aren’t fragile things you need to defend. We’re people. Keep holding doors open, keep being friendly, just don’t expect things in return; you aren’t owed anything by this world.

If you want us to be less afraid of the world, then change the world, don’t change us.

The obliviousness to the original message might seem staggering until you consider that it was likely typed out by a woman with a self-impression of female empowerment. The idea she’s addressing is that it’s the Nice Guy’s fault for not stepping in to “do something” while simultaneously claiming that “women can do things without a man’s help”. That alone would be enough to illustrate the mindset that would respond to a Nice Guy bemoaning women’s duplicity about ‘being Nice’, but she continues to miss the point that the dutiful ‘helping’ he’s offering isn’t help at all, but his disillusionment with his Blue Pill conditioning.

It’s likely he’s oblivious to it, but he’s publicly taken a step into Red Pill awareness and in doing so reveals women’s Hypergamous duplicity. Now, that is what it is, but that step into Red Pill awareness is something that makes women very uncomfortable when they don’t control the narrative about their own Hypergamy. It’s one thing to make Hypergamy ‘open’ in a commercial or in a book by an empowered woman, but let a man reveal it in his perspective and he’s “bitter” or it’s an “insane rant” by a Nice Guy who’s only Nice because he thinks it’ll get him laid.

As I was saying, in the future I expect to see less Nice Shaming as the machinations of Hypergamy becomes part of men’s popular consciousness. The result, like most others brought on by feminine social primacy, will be men taking women at their word – “women can do things without a man’s help” and they “aren’t fragile things you need to defend” – and they’ll get the men they deserve; men who will understand that niceties aren’t in fact exchangeable for appreciation, intimate or otherwise. Their attentions, courtesies and help will be reserved for the women who actually deserve and reciprocate it rather than due to it being some default chivalry that’s expected of them. And they’ll abandon the strong independent women (and even the ones who look like them) to their fates, while they cry about the lack of self-sacrificing ‘real men’ to love and help them when it’s convenient for them.

It’ll take a while. Obviously the same Nice Shaming from a decade ago still manifests like this occasionally, and the predictable “women don’t owe you sex” indignation is still the reflexive response. But as the old exchanges of the old rules are cycled out for the cruel, but accepted, realities that the Red Pill outlines, women will get exactly the men they deserve. Men who will give them respect based on their real personal merits and only offer niceties to the ones who wont spit in their faces or accuse them of sexual harassment for doing so.

As it stands now, Nice Shaming serves as a filter for women’s Hypergamy. The guys who Just Get It don’t post notes like this. Guys who get it learn from that frustration, they adapt, they experiment, they adjust and they develop Game to exploit the real intersexual rules in play, and they don’t make grandiose displays of the real game.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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scray
scray
4 years ago

@pell “Meanwhile, the red pill guys are basically saying it was her responsibility to be aware of the fact that it WOULD have negative repercussions, and it’s unlikely that she hasn’t heard that from someone, so she shouldn’t be crying now that she made her bed, so to speak.” like, think about it man…. you’re a young person and the world just feeds you a bunch of BULLSHIT. for a young hot chick it’s ‘ya do whatever u want sleep with whoever be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee whooooooooooooooooooooooooo you go girrrrrrrrl!’ a significant amount of women fall for it. others are only saved… Read more »

scray
scray
4 years ago

kfg

“If they abandoned their dream to be a doctor and dropped out of a med program to be a porn star; yes.”

well, i was referring to low N-count/virgins the manosphere loves…..

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

A low N-count virgin. Emily, are your ears burning?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

That’s why she’s thinking of nursing now, but nurses have to be perceived like a mother from Indiana. Yeah, not so much anymore. A couple of years ago at a hot springs resort I spent some time at night in a pool listening to a gaggle of women in the next pool over. Eventually I had enough words to know they were all nurses of some sort. When I walked by their pool on the way to the showers I paused to read some of their ink, although it was all sleeve or lower back. Definitely DTF under many circumstances.… Read more »

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@scray I said “smart”. Pitt is high value, but “smart” is another thing altogether. It’s not necessarily a part of high value, though it can be. And for the record in his position I’d have banged her and moved on. Hell, if I was on the extreme end of the money/fame/status spectrum, I’d never marry. Ever. If you’re a billionaire and she says “Marry me or I’m gone”, why wouldn’t you just say “Uh. OK. I’ll just replace you with one from the line of younger, hotter models stretching out my door. See ya.” Makes no sense to me when… Read more »

emilyy96
4 years ago

Low N-count virgin.. I think the low n-count part of that term is a bit redundant really..

scray
scray
4 years ago

@sun “I said “smart”. Pitt is high value, but “smart” is another thing altogether. It’s not necessarily a part of high value, though it can be.” Lol smart IS a high value trait. women value smarts and cleverness in men. “And for the record in his position I’d have banged her and moved on.”” having a hard time believing it, but aight. “Hell, if I was on the extreme end of the money/fame/status spectrum, I’d never marry. Ever.” I’m not at the extreme of that and I have the same opinion. Long-term monogamy is like chopping your balls off because……(there… Read more »

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
4 years ago

@Sun Lol that gif is amazing you’re a young person and the world just feeds you a bunch of BULLSHIT. Hmm, where have I seen that before? *blatantly looks to the note which marks the subject of this post* I can empathize just fine. I get it – no one is enforcing boundaries for you so you think you’re queen shit who can do no wrong until life catches up with you and now you’re in a shitty situation. It sucks. I just don’t sympathize. I was serious above when I said that I will lose no sleep over the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“both missed the slash”

See Sun’s response.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

She’s priding herself on her math skills rather than her philosphy/theology/Churchian-ideology skills.

It’s: Low N-Count Born Again Virgin. Everyone knows that status is just as good. Until 10 years into the marriage.

scray
scray
4 years ago

@Pelleon

“I just don’t sympathize.”

ya that’s fine. no one wants or needs anyone else’s pity.

i’m mostly remarking on the sometimes weird expectations and the ‘they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN-esque’ style.

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
4 years ago

i’m mostly remarking on the sometimes weird expectations and the ‘they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN-esque’ style.

Agreed. I’ve heard people suggest the same towards me with regard to my naivety in accepting the beta bucks message.

As I said before- I refuse to accept blame for my position. Responsibility, yes, but not blame.

The same, in my mind, extends to any women who fall prey to the FI messages and fail to catch the red pill truths early. It’s not their fault that they were weak… but it is their responsibility to deal with it.

Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@scray idk, if you can somehow not have all of what you just said you think about things not come through as judgmental at all in your RL subcomms and everything, cool. If my mentality is “Don’t care, I’m spinning multiple plates anyway” and I’ve got abundance, then it shouldn’t matter at all whether an individual woman is that way or not. Obviously I’ll want women like that for the most part, as I’m just looking for fun getting laid. I’m totally cool with it in ONS or plates. I’m just ruling them out as keepers for my own protection… Read more »

scray
scray
4 years ago

@pell “The same, in my mind, extends to any women who fall prey to the FI messages and fail to catch the red pill truths early. It’s not their fault that they were weak… but it is their responsibility to deal with it.” “As I said before- I refuse to accept blame for my position. Responsibility, yes, but not blame.” I think it’s a tough issue. So I avoid telling people they have responsibility or blame or whatever. I tend to think of it as an AFC has a raw deal and has to undo a shitton of bad programming… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . money brings its own set of problems.” That is true, which is why I deliberately moderate my money to keep it below the point that I spend most of my time and money dealing with accountants and lawyers to protect it. I have shit that I want to do. Shit that requires enough money to have the freedom to do them, but in and of themselves have nothing at all to do with money. Riding bikes and playing fiddles, for instance. More to the point, however, is that there is a class of problems that are… Read more »

Radium
Radium
4 years ago

This topic reminds me of a friend who works full time as a driller and used to work part time as a personal bouncer for strippers at private shows. My friend is a big man with a shaved head. He was so intimidating that he said he never had any problems at any of the shows. In reality, he was a genuinely nice guy. What was interesting is every single stripper who employed my friend used to call him crying in the middle of the night about her latest problems with the latest jerk boyfriend. None were interested in banging… Read more »

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
4 years ago

So having been reminded of the “leave britney alone” video, I had to go out and watch it again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqSTXuJeTks

lol I’m pretty sure Rollo could write a whole post just about this video, and the identification with the FI it represents.

@Radium
Sounds like good fodder for YaReally to use as an example as hawt bod != slaying hot poon.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@ kfg

So, what have you got other than a vagina and a bad attitude to trade against all of that?

a keyboard XD

ludiam0ndz
ludiam0ndz
4 years ago
kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“All of these young men might be watching porn. If you look at models, you’ll see that stance is a common one in heels.”

Holy reversing the arrow of causality, Batman!

“Has [Fuentes] considered that wearing high heels is a behavior designed to enhance women’s physical attractiveness . . .”

Obviously not. It must be (dum, dum, Duuum!) The Patriarchy, because . . . ummm, reasons.

Ansgar Alois
Ansgar Alois
4 years ago

Hey, @YaReally,

On the subject of boundaries, how would you handle a situation like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfMbN_MzCpw

I can’t imagine any move that wouldn’t be a losing move.

Bellator
Bellator
4 years ago

I would be interesting if for just 1 week every man in the USA would respond to every woman in the bar or club scene with “Fuck off!”. No conversation other than to respond “Fuck off!”. No social interaction other than giving the middle finger. No dance. No drink buying. No free food. Just “Fuck off!” and the middle finger.

Of course it will NEVER happen. But it sure would be fun.

Tom
Tom
4 years ago

Sticking this link here as a crumb for those interested in the whole “is there a hardwired aspect to betatude/being blue pill?” question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/24/science/risky-rats-help-shine-light-on-brain-circuitry-behind-taking-a-chance.html

Turns out there is very different physiology in the brains of animals that accept risk compred to those that are afraid of risk.

True in humans too? Based on behavioral differences I’ve observed, I say “Likely.”

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
4 years ago

SD, you mentioned that our instincts evolved in a tribal society in which ruthlessness should have been selected for or something along these lines. While I don’t think having ruthless children is that bad, our instincts are quite obviously conducive to civilization collapse. It’s not just women with their hypergamy. They’re obvious because women have always been bad at controlling their own instincts. Our instincts as men are incompatible. Take rape. Idk if I’d be able to keep it up if she was hating it, but if we were to ‘it just happened’ like girls do whenever we got horny,… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
4 years ago

Emily, you’re not saying anything new to us, but your words are cheap. They don’t beat the experience with a friend both pre and post criminal record. Just like you can tell when desperate losers buy you drinks to gain favor, we can tell when you find something exciting and attractive(maybe not the losers buying you drinks). He was surprised by the reaction of women to his criminal record so he actually went out of his way to run a social study that concluded women want him more if they know he has a record. We don’t even need extreme… Read more »

Shanae
Shanae
4 years ago

Have you lost your mind, both “nice guys” and red pill scum turn me off. How hard is it to have a personality, be moral and not be a entitled annoying shit. How hard is it to not be entitled. Men are so entitled yet so unwilling to work on themselves to be interesting enough, moral enough helping out enough, and not entitled. Don’t pay friendship coins and feel you are owed sex, don’t get shitty your friend who is a girl is dating another person!

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
4 years ago

Shanae, you’re projecting. It must suck to realize nobody would have anything to do with you if not for the lukewarm hole between your legs.

It’s comical when women talk about men developing personalities when the sole hobby of droves of women is painting their own faces. The reason why only losers hit on you is because you’re vapid, bitter and most likely homely.

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
4 years ago

‘How hard is it to not be entitled. Men are so entitled yet so unwilling to work on themselves to be interesting enough, moral enough helping out enough, and not entitled’ Does your slit shoot magical rainbows out of it? If not, you’re the one being entitled given you want people to do a myriad of shit merely to put a bunch of flesh inside your hole. And I assume you expect men to pleasure you sexually too, not just give you no lube rough anal. So you accuse others of feeling entitled when you expect them to work on… Read more »

Pinelero
Pinelero
4 years ago

LOL!
“red-pill scum”

I can only imagine you with a pirate eye-patch and a parrot on your shoulder saying this: … Arrggg.. red-pill scum!

aleste81
4 years ago

Red Pill teaches us that Nice Guys finish last, behind Jerks. The official Red Pill 1.0 explanation is that Nice Guys are boring, and Jerks are exciting. But then we have another Red Pill 1.0 concept, the SMV concept, that teaches us that women will mate equal or above their own SMV. The corollary of the SMV rule is that in order to mate with a woman, a man should increase his perceived SMV, via game, and/or decrease the woman’s SMV, via neg attitude. But this corollary is precisely the difference between Nice Guys and Jerks. This is not about… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“What do you think guys ?”

I think that this:

“THIS WILL PISS THE WOMAN OFF, and she will complains a lot to the guys lost in her friendzone, but at the same time she will fight back to regain her lost ego . . .”

. . . is the antithesis of boring.

Jordan Awlings
Jordan Awlings
4 years ago

i think the “you’re man so it’s your fault…”

Funny thing that went viral:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/04/18/viral-video-inspires-chinas-leftover-women.html

ayatollah1988
4 years ago

I’m proud to say that I’ve never been the guy to try to do lots of nice things for a girl in order to get her to like me. I think I always naturally knew that women were repulsed by those sorts of cloying guys (probably because I find them repulsive as well). But I keep running into a problem with the nice thing. I’ll often want to do things for girls I’m seeing/ girls in my social circle just because I’m ACTUALLY a nice guy. But does that make me a “nice guy?” For example, if I want to… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

1988, you have to ration “niceness” with women. Save it for a dog, they won’t turn and bite your hand right after you get done petting them as a rule, unlike women.

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