During the Q&A section of the Man in Demand talk I gave back in September I was asked about where I believed the social dynamic of Open Hypergamy would lead. In specific the idea was proposed, and I agree, that the logical next step for a social order founded on feminine Hypergamy and one that prioritizes the female sexual strategy as preeminent would lead to a state of openly accepted cuckoldry.
Although I can’t say it’s an accepted social dynamic as yet, there are many social indicators that are revealing this push towards a normalized cuckoldry. I’ll explore these for a bit in this essay, but for now these indicators are about a move away from conventional monogamy in the hopes that a ‘soft cuckoldry’ might be a precursor to instituting a more accepted open cuckoldry.
I think it’s also important to keep in mind a couple of primary principles about this shift. First is the fact that, initially, an openly accepted state of feminine-controlled cuckoldry will never be called ‘cuckoldry’ proper. If we use the example of a socially accepted (if not celebrated) open Hypergamy as a model, open cuckoldry will be sold as a more logical, more humane sexual strategy for men and women in light of divorce statistics, romantic boredom and other sexual studies that indicate men and women weren’t evolved for monogamous commitment.
The second is that open cuckoldry is the extension of a unilaterally feminine controlled Hypergamy. That is to say that as Hypergamy becomes more normalized as a social imperative that sexual strategy will extend to optimizing Hypergamy across genders. If that optimization is taken to its logical end it will require men not just to adopt cuckoldry as a norm, but to socially reward them for advocating it among their own sex.
Cuckoldry By Any Other Name
As I said, it wont be called ‘cuckoldry’; the connotations are negative, so a redefining will be made in order to make the practice more socially palatable. The Feminine Imperative wont recruit the very men it needs to perpetuate cuckoldry as their own sexual strategy if the term is derogatory. Thus we’ll get euphemisms for alternative lifestyles, ‘open marriages’ or a “Designer Relationship“:
We live in an era when everything is customizable. Relationships are no exception. Some people will continue to practice their grandparents’ form of monogamy, and others, probably the majority, will be serially exclusive and pair-bonded. Still others will explore some form of non-monogamous expression that encompasses one or more of the facets we’ve discussed or may flow in and out of being exclusive based on what the relationship requires. (We’ve done this ourselves.) Having the ability to customize a relationship means having the freedom to respond to life’s vicissitudes.
The first time I came across the concept of ‘soft polygamy’ I was in a behavioral psychology class exploring the practices of modern marriage and contrasting them with the long term sexual behaviors of men and women. As you might imagine the context of the study focused entirely on the ‘bad behaviors’ of men who essentially transitioned from serial monogamy to serial marriage. The idea was that in the process of moving from one LTR to another men were establishing a soft form of polygamy.
In a social respect, men have far more to lose from serial marriages than do women. The financial liabilities of divorce are well known to the manosphere, but so are the emotional and familial accountabilities. So from a strictly male perspective, serial LTRs are a dicey prospect, but from a female perspective, in a feminine-primary social order, institutionalized Hypergamy and the soft polygamy that results from the Sandbergian sexual strategy, soft cuckoldry becomes pragmatic in optimizing Hypergamy for women.
At this point we should consider the Heartiste maxim about feminism again:
The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality
Institutionalized cuckoldry is the logical means to restricting male sexuality, but we have to consider what function that restriction serves for women. From an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks perspective the plan is simple; restrict that sexuality as women find need for a particular man’s service.
Diamonds and Rust
While I’m reluctant to prognosticate, my guess is that future generations of men will be conditioned to accept their role in this cuckoldry as part of their socialization. The above Forevermark diamond advertisement is one illustration of this. Open Hypergamy and its acceptance has already made its popular debut in mainstream media and advertising, and likewise open cuckoldry is just now finding a social foothold.
It takes the Red Pill Lens to appreciate the efforts as they’re being made by a large society. The Forevermark ad is intended to be funny or cute, but it belies a deeper, more poignant truth about Alpha Widows, Hypergamy and the long term sexual strategy Plan and roles women expect men to play in it.
I was made aware of this ad being circulated from a reader on Twitter and at first thought it was a reworked joke. It is however legit and billboards with this campaign are up in major cities. Without the benefit of a Red Pill Lens I can see how most men would laugh it off or women might giggle sardonically about it, but the the fact remains that a clever copywriter is aware of the sexual dynamics that make it funny.
I pulled the following quote from Deti on one of Dalrock’s more recent post:
“I think what we will continue to see is growing disengagement.”
Yeah, this has been discussed here and elsewhere in the almost 5 years I’ve been around here.
I think that what will happen is that things will continue sliding in the same direction they’re going now, until a critical mass is reached. I don’t know what that critical mass is, what will trigger it, or when it will be reached.
We live in a mostly free society with a hybrid of capitalism and socialism. We have maximum freedom and autonomy right now, with both sexes being free to pursue pretty much whatever they want, however they want to. That is the prime characteristic driving the current circumstance — that, and up to now, there’s been enough money taxed, borrowed and stolen to pay for it.
A growing number of men are not getting as much sex as they want. A growing number of women aren’t getting commitments in the form they want — when they want or from the men they want.
So things are going to keep sliding that way. More and more men will walk away and direct what energies they have left elsewhere — into work, or beer/bros/Xbox/porn, or travel/leisure. (Oddly enough, this might make many of them more attractive to women, since they’re spending less time directing their attentions to women.) More and more men will earn just enough to support themselves, since they don’t plan on marriage, and fatherhood is out of the question. They will lack the skills to improve their lives. They will not get nearly as much sex as they want, but they will learn to live with it — mostly through porn, the occasional hookup, and the even more occasional prostitute. The price of prostitutes will skyrocket as demand increases; and a few more women will go into high-end call girl work to earn side money.
More and more women will direct their attentions into their work, travel/leisure, and having children without men. (This will definitely make more of them less attractive to men except as on again, off again sex partners.) They will not get the commitments from men they want, but they will learn to live with it. They will complain about it with increasing volume and shrillness, but they’ll learn to live with it.
Until something happens to cause the tides to turn. Again – don’t know what, or when, or how. But something will happen to cause a hard reset. And it will be exquisitely painful for everyone. I don’t want it to happen, nor do I relish it. It’s not something to desire or look forward to because of the pain it will bring. But I do think it will happen. I don’t think it will happen in my lifetime or my kids’ lifetimes. We could easily slide like this for another 50 to 100 years.
I think one consequence of this separation of the genders will include a socially normalized institution of cuckoldry. To take hold it will need to be termed something different, but in effect the process of women conceiving with one man and then expecting another man to parentally invest himself in that child will be a casual expectation of women. With so many men effectively (if not intentionally) going their own way, the idea that any man wouldn’t be expected to serve as a surrogate parent will become commonplace.
Genders divided by feminism or feminine social primacy will need a ‘customized’ form of cuckoldry that allows for the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy to be reconciled with the Beta Bucks side by enlisting different men for either purpose.
The Pink Pill
I want to end here with an essay I read recently on the fallout of the new female form of Viagra:
In an infamous cartoon in The New Yorker in 2001, one woman confides to a friend over drinks: ‘I was on hormone replacement for two years before I realized what I really needed was Steve replacement.’ Medicine has been reluctant to engage the question of just how much monogamy and long-term togetherness affect sexual function and desire, and the ‘Steve’ problem remains an issue that is tacitly acknowledged and yet under-discussed. To return to Julie’s growing pile of self-help titles, the books all promise to return, revive, restore without really getting down to the brass tacks of why desire extinguished in the first place. As Julie notes, the honeymoon grinds to an end, but the issues leading there are complex. In short supply is attention to the way mind and body react to social structures such as popular media, faith and marriage.
To develop drugs to boost libido is like ‘giving antibiotics to pigs because of the shit they’re standing in’
The American psychologist Christopher Ryan argues that the institution of modern marriage – meaning an exclusive couple bound by romantic love – is antithetical to long-term excitement. Ryan is best known for Sex at Dawn (2010), a book authored with his wife Cacilda Jethá, that makes the case that sexual monogamy is deeply at odds with human nature. He is among a growing number of researchers suggesting that the rift between women’s purportedly limitless sexual potential and their dulled actuality might owe to the circumstances of intimacy. Accordingly, the conjugal bed is not only the scene of dwindling desire, but its fundamental cause. The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust. While love angles toward intimacy, desire flourishes across a distance.
The entire article is very insightful if not a bit depressing, but with the Red Pill Lens we can begin to understand the latent purpose behind the message. I’ve gone on record about the pushback against clearing the pink pill for use as being a direct threat to women’s control of their own Hypergamy. The concern, ostensibly, is that a libido stimulating drug might be used to induce a woman into having sex that her otherwise sober sense would prevent; effectively it could be a ‘rape’ drug.
What’s finally being addressed in this article however is what I’ve been saying since I was aware of the drug’s trials – a chemical that induces libido in women removes an element of their control in sexual selection and compromises Hypergamy. I’m not entirely sure the author was aware of the points she was revealing in this, but she succinctly makes the case for both institutionalized cuckoldry (or certainly a ‘customized’ soft polygamy for women) and advocates for women maintaining control of their Hypergamy unclouded by a drug that would remove that control by chemically inducing them into sex that isn’t of their own choosing.
The ‘cure’ to women’s low libido is holistic, not biological. Women’s sexual deficiencies are presumed not to be the result of a ‘broken’ biology, but rather a lack of proper motivation. I should point out that all of this validates all the points I was making about Dread in marriage last month on Biblical Gender Roles – maintaining a condition of proper motivation (i.e. Dread), the holistic cure, is exactly what even femosphere authors are tacitly advocating.
The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust.
Yet now, even when a pharmaceutical solution to the lust problem is made available the ‘cure’ is rejected. Why? Because on a root, limbic level women’s hindbrains know that Hypergamy cannot be optimized with a drug that removes Hypergamous choice. The real solution has never changed and women are now put into a position of having to openly acknowledge that for all of the pretense of “mismatched libidos” or “sex just declines after marriage” social conventions, men’s cuckoldry is the real plan for Hypergamy.
When presented with a pill that will make them sexual, when given a cure to their low sex drives with the men who’ve made lifetime commitments to them, women will still refuse to take it. Hypergamous doubt can’t be quelled with a pill.
Once upon a time a man asked a woman to marry him. And the woman said No. And he lived happily ever after. He rode motorbikes everywhere. He always had money in the bank and never worried about paying his bills and mortgage. He had just the right amount of stuff in his house; he had nothing he didnt actually use. He never worried about his things at home when he travelled. He fucked cheerleaders in the ass. His Audi was new and he looked sharp wherever he went in his new clothes. He went to the gym and kept… Read more »
“Fucking old men wrapped up in high-school drama in here this week lol It’s Friday night, go let off some steam away from the keyboards.” Interesting. See, I have no steam to let off. At home chilling with the wife after buying a car with cash for my 21 y.o. son today. (actually turns 21 tomorrow) If my pressure of speech over the last year hasn’t clued you in to what my problem is (keep in mind that I don’t express myself well and am inscrutable), let me recap. Old heheh (54 and not set in my ways), married well,… Read more »
Hey @SJF: Why the mothercunt are you buying some Acura ass car for a 21 year old entitle twat? For cash no less? Just gonna wrap it around the pole outside my cunting house! Be sure he keeps it off my goddam lawn!!
Acura?
…where are my special glasses?
🙂
Blaximus And what if it all blows up? Lol, fuck it, what if the world ends tomorrow? What if ISIS blows up the mall while I’m finishing up my Christmas shopping? What if my boss comes in and fires me Monday morning? What if…. A man can drive himself nuts in the land of what if. It’s also arguably feminine. We all know women who worry about 30 different things, none of them happen. What did they get for all that energy expended? Feelz. Emotional roller coaster. Ok, fine. Do we need those kinda feelz? Nah, not so much. Because… Read more »
“Now, there’s a diff between having a plan or options and worrying.”
Which is why I have my foundation built on the one thing that it is absolutely certain, and thus I no longer have to worry about it:
I’m going to die.
“Have a plan. Don’t have an obsession. Sometimes it’s difficult to spot the difference.” A great benefit for a man is to intuitively calculate the Relative Risk rather than the Absolute risk. Mainstream media, the FI, and women are all over Absolute Risk. I’m pretty sure Blax was elucidating somewhat similar to Ecclesiastes 7:15-18. Back in February this year I really liked a blog article by a Canadian blogger Freenortherner: http://freenortherner.com/2012/09/06/die-when-youre-done/ “Now, the arguments of both Roosh and D&P both centered around health. Do you suffer now by denying yourself foods you enjoy, undergoing painful workouts, and starving yourself? Or… Read more »
“NBTM – Honest question. Your thoughtful response to Rollo seems to imply you can escape the imperious urge and the imbalance of human intersexual dynamics. If you are in the same game we are, women have more power in this dynamic because they are exercising choice. We are bioprogrammed to want them more, it’s innate” We are not bio programmed as such. They are bio programmed to want us just as much as we want them. Any man who has siginifant experience with women learns that women desire men at least as much as men desire women. Most recently, at… Read more »
@Anonymous Reader ” It’s also arguably feminine. We all know women who worry about 30 different things, none of them happen. What did they get for all that energy expended? Feelz. Emotional roller coaster. Ok, fine. Do we need those kinda feelz? Nah, not so much. Because it doesn’t solve problems. ” Btw, I Love Phoenix/Scottsdale. I was within inches of moving there 20 years ago. I had 3 plates there, 2 Asian, 1 Navajo ( she referred to her snatch as a ” Navajo Taco “…. cool, dirty girl ). I spent 1 week a month there after my… Read more »
“A great benefit for a man is to intuitively calculate the Relative Risk rather than the Absolute risk.” That would be risk relative to other activities. For instance how risky is the thing I propose to do relative to the risk of taking a shower or walking down a flight of stairs. That isn’t the way the mainstream defines relative risk, which is a risk relative to itself. They’re all over that shit, because they don’t want you to know that smoking or a high blood serum cholesterol level is less risky absolutely than going to work in the morning.… Read more »
@SJF
” A great benefit for a man is to intuitively calculate the Relative Risk rather than the Absolute risk. Mainstream media, the FI, and women are all over Absolute Risk.”
Exactly.
….wait.. are you blowing off steam? : )
I watch news sometimes just to stay abreast of what’s going on. Unfortunately I have to wade through all of the hype and fear to gather facts so that I can assess what’s actually going on.
Relative Risk. Indeed.
“Just know that I would gladly trade it all for having an intact marriage/family with a good, submissive woman, 4 kids and my first grandkid on the way now.”
I’m with scribblerg on that.
We adapt because we have to.
Good job, by the way, on dumping that girl and meeting that new one, scribblerg. I hope that works out for you. Sounds like a huge step up in more ways than one.
Blaximus: Nothing like riding alone at night on a road trip thru the desert, listening to Coast to Coast AM…you can practically feel the UFOs looking down at you.
I love that area. And the Navajo Taco. Back in my single days, fucked a few Indians. While as FUCK in bed.
@SJF You know, we’re about the same age. It’s interesting talking to the younger cats here. No doubt, I have learned a million things from the dialog here, but I’m torn concerning the dire outlook so many seem to have. I used to blow off what my elders tried to tell me when I was younger, so I get it from that perspective, and I see that the playing field concerning LTR’s, Marriage, or even casual sex has changed drastically, but I have a hard time wrapping my grey head around some of the attitudes I see. Maybe it’s a… Read more »
@enrique
” I love that area. And the Navajo Taco. Back in my single days, fucked a few Indians. While as FUCK in bed.”
LOL!!!!!!
I have to admit that she was something else. Gorgeous girl.
She has no idea how much she helped to fuck me out of a bad mental state. Heheheeee.
“5 minutes after that an amazon version of Sofia Vergara”
wait, I can buy Sofia Vergara on amazon?
LOL.
Blax, there’s something about the desert that brings out the solitude in a man. I love me some mountains, lakes and oceans..all that. But when you are just cruising along, alone, listening to some tunes, wide open spaces.
Feel bad for the guys that never had that or are so oblivious to a life outside of work work work and family, that they never take time to be alone (and then in the bed of a wild squaw). Every man needs that, to contemplate it all.
@NBTM ” We are not bio programmed as such. They are bio programmed to want us just as much as we want them. Any man who has siginifant experience with women learns that women desire men at least as much as men desire women. Most recently, at least western men are conditioned to believe women do not. This is partly where men are deceived and they perpetuate their own deception. Once the human mind is programmed it is difficult and usually painful to alter the subroutines in a siginificant way.” And pretty much everything else you typed. Especially this righty… Read more »
@enrique Cosign +1 That area is sooooo different from anything else I was accustomed to that I might as well have been driving around on Mars. A very hot Mars. During the daytime, on the highways, it was like you could see a hundred miles. At night, just like you say, you kinda expect a UFO to show up at any moment. I pulled over one day while driving through Carefree and just got out of the car and sat on the side of the road, breathing deep. After a while I saw a coyote. A few minutes later I… Read more »
@ YaReally Don’t use my one very reluctant agreement as some kind of universal endorsement of your shit You create drama and then you accuse others of creating drama. “Very reluctant”, lol. Gay Drama Queen tactics. “Oh, I don’t want to agree with the retard over there, heeheehee.” I’m trying to help scribbler and other guys in similar situations and you pull this submarining shit. Unbelievable. SMH You’re not someone I’d want to have my back. If you think that I’m trying to create drama then you need to work on your reading skills. I’m not laughing here. (Cave Clown… Read more »
Buffers to me where a way to defend against shit tests. Suicide was a temporary solution to not internalizing performing. Social rejection was an in stable response to self rejection. At 27 going back to my school and seining it with the red pill brought me to a state of calm that I’ve never known may of been the yoga this morning as well. Was thinking of a few books that have helped me connect with people living life the best they can. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ANUQPA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1 Apparently Nevada just instated a tax for live events with more than 7,500 people. Thinking of… Read more »
Is it really that hard to build a decent life in 2015?
I love my wife very much, but sometimes reading here makes me wonder if there’s something wrong with me. Like I’m blind, deaf and dumb, and one day my wife is gonna Falcon Punch me to death
It’s not that you’re blind, deaf or dumb. You’re simply old.
One thing I do know for sure, and I try desperately to get it across to the young dudes here, no one will shoot me in the chest for approaching. It will not cost me any bodily organs. The likely issue here is that the potential blowback is indeed small compared to getting shot or having your organs harvested, but average guys still see it as too high when compared to the potential payoff, which is why the great majority of them don’t do approaches. It’s a simple question of incentives. One commenter at RVF summed it up: The risk… Read more »
@hoellenhund2
Rejection by women in circles is something I’m still struggling with.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n3UUoWVbmx0
Brutal stuff best day of my life. I haven’t fully realized how much this site has helped me change all aspects of my living being into something more complete and fullied and someone who talks less and listens more. Struggling while moving inch by inch into something worthwhile.
Women need and desire us just as much as we need and desire them.
No. Men aren’t hypergamous.
“Enough about me, let’s talk about you for a minute Enough about you, let’s talk about life for a while The conflicts, the craziness and the sound of pretenses” Now I know the why’s of a Friday night news dump. No one’s there to react and the emotions will pass. Heh, I crashed early to bed and was woken up by my wife asking me “What? are you trying to be less of an asshole these days?” For you gamers out there. “Isn’t it ironic?” No, I was always a nice guy and now I’m self centered. I was a… Read more »
@NBTM – Cool story, bruv, lol. And this is for you too Blax – it’s a scientific fact that men have much higher sex drives than women. Period, dot, end of sentence. It isn’t negotiable or debatable. It’s also a fact that women choose in over 90% of sexual encounters – not men. This is actually a fundamental Red Pill truth – women choose, men compete for that choice. Even in Blax’s club example, the women choosing him to flirt will also often show some last minute ASD etc and make the guy work a little bit for it –… Read more »
Open Hypergamy as described at TEDx by an older, overweight woman in a much-too-tight dress.
@Rugby – I’m blown away by your comment. Well done, you are relentless in your pursuit of a fully actualized Red Pill mentality and are an example to me. How cool for you to see through your own buffers – which are not limited to dealing with shit tests, fyi. Society encourages young men to adopt these buffers, to settle, to feel much less worthy and entitled to pursue their own ends. Blax, this is what I think you may not grok about the younger guys. They grew up in a world where they are not entitled to their masculinity… Read more »
FR: Wow, what a night last night. My wing texts me and says he isn’t up to sarging at the bar we talked about going to. He’s just not feeling great. He has a foot injury and there is pain etc and I’m very sympathetic as he’s a good guy. This is my first observation – my mindset about all this has changed to abundance and flow so this is no issue for me. I’m like, “No problem, but I’m hungry, do you want to just go out and get a meal and hang?” You see I know his mindset… Read more »
FR update: Wing just texted me. My instructions on how to follow up with a text last night late were reacted to exactly as I predicted and they are going out Sunday night. Fucking A~ @YaReally and Rollo – This man who I’ve become was not possible without the two of you. Know that. I’ve been utterly transformed by the two of you and I couldn’t be more grateful. And get it – I’m floating on Cloud 9 cuz I number closed for my Wing! It does help that I picked up that girl on Thursday night, women feel abundant… Read more »
RSDOzzie is 44 years old (maybe 45 now? He LOOKS 50, he’s not some pretty-boy Clooney old man, his face looks like the Joker and his hair is all scraggly lol). Here’s some infield for the “looks/age/money/clothes/etc matter” crowd. Ozzie steals a girl who’s with a younger better looking taller guy in a nicer outfit who’s groping her up and you can watch the girl switch from the guy to him as she starts touching him more and turning away from the guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzbSoElXPnY Even without words (and without seeing whether he actually takes her away from the guy or… Read more »
Blaximus, I hear ya, I’ve thought the same thing, you might as well be on Mars out there. There are some strips of highway where there is nothing but Roadrunners (weird when you actually SEE one in REAL life), coyotes and….tumbleweeds! When I first saw these whirling piles of what appeared to be grass, it took a minute to figure out what they were. Can only imagine how brutal the summers and winters were on Natives of long ago. Sounds like we both appreciate the same things. Btw, not sure if you’ve made it to Alaska or even the Greater… Read more »
@ AR Have a plan. Don’t have an obsession. Sometimes it’s difficult to spot the difference. Some of us deeper into autism don’t have the luxury. We have to try to manage our obsessions and that doesn’t always work–at least not for me. Sometimes the obsession can be an advantage and sometimes a hindrance. It’s like trying to rewire your brain using a positive mental attitude. Software can’t change hardware. At most, software can turn hardware on and off. Well, software can destroy hardware if the hardware isn’t engineered well. I blew up a couple of monochrome monitors in my… Read more »
@scribblerg “Most guys, particularly those my age would never recognize what a little sex freak and partier she is” The “Cute Mode Slut Mode” reddit forum is always worth taking a glance at before a night out: Hardcore NSFW, remove the space in gfycat and reddit: http://gfy cat.com/UnconsciousAstonishingIndianglassfish http://gfy cat.com/IllLastingGentoopenguin http://gfy cat.com/PertinentThriftyGalah http://gfy cat.com/FrayedSmugAmericancrayfish http://gfy cat.com/BreakableResponsibleEnglishsetter http://gfy cat.com/SpectacularHonoredApe http://gfy cat.com/ZanyEminentHammerheadshark http://www.red dit.com/r/cutemodeslutmode/ You could cover the right side of these images and show just the left side and most guys would be like “oh that girl looks like an innocent flower, she is definitely girlfriend material I would date her!… Read more »
From SJF: Stop orienting yourself from a top down approach to getting agency and power. You seem to be fascinated by scoring easy pussy. Good on you. That is in the hind brain of every man. It is natural and and a male imperative. But what others have accomplished is irrelevant to what you need to work on. You need to improve your own reality in a practical fashion. But you have to orient yourself in the fog of war to learn red pill awareness (how the actual world of inter-sexual relationships really operate) rather than the plugged in blue… Read more »
@Roused – Okay, finished the housecleaning, digesting breakfast before the gym so I have a quick bit of feedback. First off, very impressive work, I love to hear from everyone who’s doing the work… Some who know LTR better may have specifics on what “to do” but my observation is more meta. Are you happy with who you are being? You seem quite invested in how your GF feels and it makes me ask why? She’s an adult, if she doesn’t like what you are giving her, she’s welcome to leave. One thing I figured out long ago was the… Read more »
@ scribblerg Thanks for the encouragement. I really appreciate it. And you’re absolutely right. I look at a lot of the movies I watched growing up, books we had to read in school, all the feminine-primary material that is rammed down our throats, and it’s staggering. Especially music. Holy shit. Just listen to the lyrics in pretty much any popular song today and it’s like a feminist brainwashing center. Any time the radio is on at a restaurant or market or anywhere else and I listen to the lyrics I almost can’t believe my ears. It’s like every fucking song… Read more »
I’ll be honest, the first thing I thought after I read blax’s FR about being approached at the club was, “He must be taller, more attractive, and have good hair” I’ve been approached ONCE in my life by a chick. (that I knew was an obvious approach anyway) and that was at a grocery store. The red pill pointing out to me that I am lower on the SMV scale because of height and what not has been BITTER. The most bitter part I would say. I’ve honestly thought about leg lengthening surgery because of it. Barbaric procedure, but i… Read more »
Y’all were talking about being alone out in nature…
A few miles south of Newport Oregon, there is a several mile stretch where the tree line goes right up to the ocean.
Sit under one of those trees on a warm summer day, looking out over the cliffs, cool salty breeze on my face, nothing but me and the mighty Pacific for miles and miles.
That’s home to me.
“A lot of Naturals have a hard time understanding what the average dude is like out there because they can’t relate to a lot of the mental baggage and awkward social skills etc these guys have been living with for most of their lives and how much work they have to do just to become NORMAL let alone go into a club and have girls approach them” This is so true. I am good friends with a natural, and he would never ever be able to explain why he is so good with chicks. Neither can I, even watching him… Read more »
“If you think that I’m trying to create drama then you need to work on your reading skills. I’m not laughing here. (Cave Clown also needs to work on his, thinking that I was relying on you as an expert in family shit.)”
Lol.
I seem to recall that I said I didn’t know what the feud was about. Nor do I care, really.
I write and read on here to learn and to help. If it helps someone, great.
So you didn’t like what I said?
Meh, no worries.
“I hope that helps the older guys understand the younger dudes. some of our childhoods were FUCKED.”
Yeah, and I think the big problem is that we (I’m mid 30s) feel like pussies for even mentioning it, because shit wasn’t HARD like it was for people growing up in the 1800s or some shit. It was just RETARDED. We were taught assbackwards lessons about life. But to us emotionally it feels like we’re just being whiners so we don’t want to talk about it, so it’s difficult for us to actually fix it.
Dutchman,
So true. Even typing it out for internet strangers makes me feel like a gigantic pussy.
I think about my war hero, twice purple hearted grandfather, and think, was I adopted? Lol
@scribblerg MGTOW is a buffer. Sure as hell is http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eKhMLoWPtbE Blue conditioning to Red Rugby team going out drinking later, cop took my ID a few weeks ago. Going out anyways to forge forward and drink water. My exposure and my pain is so relative and meaningless. Going to train for a hundred miles and take it back out in the field. Been learning about the Joys in speaking softly and saying less. Most women and girls really just want to talk about themselves. Went back an read this about the current state of are culture https://sites.middlebury.edu/individualandthesociety/files/2010/09/jackson_lottery.pdf I’m realizing every… Read more »
Good stuff rugby.
Being still in a bar? I’m usually running around talking to as many people as possible.
Do you guys believe in Briffault’s Law: The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place. Corollaries: 1) Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association. 2) Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit (see corollary 1) 3) A promise of future benefit has limited influence on current/future association, with… Read more »
@Caveclown
Being still enough to do this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KqfV9eQuyrs
Just got invited to a dance before my rugby pub crawl. Leaving soon
@redlight
http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/03/the-meaning-of-sacrifice/
@newlyaloof
“I can’t recommend the “Lisa Gerrard” channel in Pandora enough.”
Sigur ros is grand as well
http://blog.juliaallison.com/Images/Paul%20Janka%20-%20Getting%20Laid%20in%20NYC.pdf
Remember that some people don’t want truth they want to feel better but they don’t want truth. The red pill is biological truth.
@Ya – Awesome feedback. I’m waiting for my gig to start, here early so here goes. I was trying to tell stories after we had pumped her about chodes and texts and how she wasn’t into “relationships”. I was trying to paint the picture of the “older guy adventure” to get an emotional spike. I described another girl i had taken to this amazing dinner and how mindblowing it was for her. In another moment we were talking about the things we fantasized about doing in life, hence the phone came out with the boat. But you are right, it… Read more »
YaReally wrote: This is also why Naturals generally don’t make good teachers btw. Being able to do something and being able to teach something aren’t the same thing, often a Natural just gets frustrated with beta guys because they won’t just “man up” and the Natural doesn’t even really understand what he’s doing himself… Idk. I think that Naturals may use a cant replete with nonverbal symbols/concepts that other Naturals understand, with symbols inherent to their psyche and to their understanding of women. I’m still thinking about this. I have no trouble understanding what Naturals mean when they speak. But… Read more »
Field report for YaReally and Scribble, Been getting into big fights recently with wife – I mean you can sense the hate in both of us. She continued to disrespect me in small ways I’ve warned her in the past piss me off – coming downstairs in the morning and not even acknowledging my presence with a good morning, or coming home from work and not asking how my day was first before griping, or coming in from being out all day and bitching about something she noticed outside before exchanging pleasantries first. So she did it again last week… Read more »
My natural friend is blue pill AF. He fucks these chicks on the side and then will go into several week long bouts of depression over cheating on “the love of my life” He’s married. Fucked another chick on their honeymoon. He’ll quite often purge all female contacts from his phone, and swear off cheating. Then he’ll be in a store, smell a perfume he likes, talk to her, and be fucking her a few days later. He has no game to speak of. None. In fact, he’s quite awkward, has a bounce off the walls level of energy, and… Read more »
@Asd. I consider myself an honorary member of the Autism Spectrum Disorder club. I was not awkward as a youngster Good for you. I shuffled instead of running until I was 7. A friend showed me how to run and then I got it, but I was slow until college. I was small because I skipped a grade and would have been one of the youngest even had I not skipped a grade. Throw in autism and lack of motor development on top of that. Sucks. and good at sports Good for you. I was always one of the last… Read more »
Fuck, I forgot to mention HABD, who has been a ton of help to me.
@ Roused
What the hell is that balance between curing Oneitis, keeping Frame, shedding blue pill and not coming off as manipulative?
If you are a man, you will have to manipulate, since leadership always requires manipulation. Carrots & sticks are tools to manipulate others. Don’t be clumsy when you manipulate and manipulate with as light and deft a touch as you can. Bonus points for hiding your manipulation.
Newly, I had the same issues with lack of common courtesises. One thing I realized was that if I got angry or worded anything as being what I NEED, she won. So I just deal with her like a child. I expect proper greetings. I expect courteous wording. I expect a house without arguments or complaints. No butthurt, no hateful feelings. I don’t hate my kids for being difficult, ya know? “I don’t argue. Let me know when you are ready to talk calmly” “I will listen to you after you greet me like you are happy to see me”… Read more »
About to head out
Couldn’t resist
@Cave, I hear you. Working on the detachment during the corrections. I’ve always joked that I should have been a samurai for how heavily I’ve always taken respect and the value of my word. When I don’t see respect for either, I want to draw swords, but I’m working on it. I told her a bit ago that no sex, no debit card. No respect, no debit card. I’ve taken it away from her at least 4 times. Shortly after, she gets the picture and tends to cooperate. Last night, I spent 1.5 hours waiting in the tire place to… Read more »
@scribblerg “The other weird thing was that I was gaming her for my friend” Why? Was she ugly? Did you not want to fuck her? Would you not like it if she was sucking your dick and you were railing her instead of writing up your Field Report? Ready for a mind-fuck? Your ego came back in through the back door. You gamed her “for your friend” as a way of protecting your ego and putting up a buffer. By gaming her “for your friend”, you were free to do and say whatever came to mind with no outcome dependence… Read more »
@theasdgamer We know what Naturals mean when they say “pussy is just pussy”. But AFCs don’t and it doesn’t help them learn and deconstructing it can mean different things to different Naturals based on their personal life experiences that don’t necessarily have relevance or resonate with other guys who haven’t had those experiences. Often a Natural will be like “bro you gotta wear hair gel” just because he’s worn hair gel and had a lot of success and anchors it to that. But the newbie puts gel in his hair and it doesn’t do shit. Plus as CaveClown says a… Read more »
@SJF
” @Blaximus.
Love you man. No one told us this shit like yours elders did. You were fortunate. There is a massive void out there these days. There is no one like you really out there for young men. Thanks for the pheremonal masculinity. ”
Thank you very much for the kind words. I throw them back your way.
@YaReally, again thanks for the follow up. What do you think about my “no sex, no debit card no respect no debit card? Is it butthurt?
Yeah, may be too late for me, but it’s never too early to protect my relationship with my kids. And, I’m stealing that “you girls look nice” line.
I can’t recommend the “Lisa Gerrard” channel in Pandora enough. Anybody in a stressful situation like me will forget all about stress after listening to such angelic voices and songs for 10 minutes. Scribble, this is the closest I’ve found to meditation and out-of-body feeling.
You girls look friendly.
“Nice” is ambiguous and will almost certainly be interpreted exactly as you don’t want it to be.
@kfg, yeah, I meant friendly. Typed that wrong.
@Roused “A bit curious what you all think about this?” Just like YaReally’s comment the other day: “You’re normal.” I would just like to say that Scribbler’s and Asd’s comments are spot on in regards to the fact that you are doing nothing wrong in leading the dynamic. Fact is you are the prize. You are better than your girlfriend and if she wants to come along for the ride she is welcome to come along. And there may be nothing wrong with the girls craziness of addictive personality. I really think you should read Deida’s book to get better… Read more »
@ YaReally We know what Naturals mean when they say “pussy is just pussy”. But AFCs don’t and it doesn’t help them learn and deconstructing it can mean different things to different Naturals based on their personal life experiences that don’t necessarily have relevance or resonate with other guys who haven’t had those experiences. Often a Natural will be like “bro you gotta wear hair gel” just because he’s worn hair gel and had a lot of success and anchors it to that. But the newbie puts gel in his hair and it doesn’t do shit. Plus as CaveClown says… Read more »
@Cave ” I’ll be honest, the first thing I thought after I read blax’s FR about being approached at the club was, “He must be taller, more attractive, and have good hair” Lmao. As I’ve stated before, there’s nothing I find to be special about myself. I’m just reaching 6ft tall and I don’t consider myself all that attractive. Females seem to find me good looking, but I don’t see what they do at all. They talk crazy shit about ” eyebrows ” and ” eyes ” and ” lips “… But, real talk? I have small bags under my… Read more »
@ SJF
He also expounded on other topics, like my dull, didactic personality that was devoid of just being fun with my wife.
Wow. Ouch. Slap her on the ass for me and lift her off her feet!
Tickle her severely, lol.
Regarding Briffault’s Law, Rollo first covered Relational Equity: That post was born out of all the efforts I’ve repeatedly read men relate to me when they say how unbelievable their breakups were. As if all of the investment, emotional, physical, financial, familial, etc. would be rationally appreciated as a buffer against hypergamy. Then in August 2012 he quotes the law and then In other words, hypergamy doesn’t care about Relational Equity. It’s one set of conditions to consider this in terms of how your girlfriend might’ve cheated on you in spite of all your best efforts to invest in your… Read more »
” In other terms, do women give a fuck about what you previously had done for them?”
That’s easy. No.
It’s a generalization of course, but in my experience, men have a very different view and relation to those that have helped them out in life than women do.
What Have You Done For Me Lately – Janet Jackson 1986
@Redlight Are those trick questions? My thoughts are that Briffault’s law is genetically inherent in the hindbrains of mammalian species. But epigenetic influences can tame the natural tendencies in humans. Especially fore-brain influences. Red pill awareness has a lot to do with evolutionary psychology and how evolved complex brains that are epigenetically influenced by hormones and other social factors. What makes a difference is how conventions tamed raw cave man impulses in the past. Conventions such as religion, organized societies and cultures, and stuff like patriarchies. In the absence of these conventions, women go feral. Patriarchal tenets are falling by… Read more »
@newlyaloof “What do you think about my “no sex, no debit card no respect no debit card? Is it butthurt?” No fucking clue lol I’ve never heard that one before but I lol’ed when you first said it. I can’t say where exactly it falls because you have 13 years history or whatever, so it’s like, I don’t really know your history enough to know if this is alright, especially if you’ve done it and she’s accepted it before. Just calibrate it…always punish from a place of calmness not anger. A punishment isn’t “to get back at her”, it’s “for… Read more »
ASD, “Slap her on the ass for me and lift her off her feet! Tickle her severely, lol.” Hey, that’s what needs to be done and I’m working on it. It takes a while to work through my retarded-ness and blindness and fog that settled in for 15 years in the middle of my relationship. The game script works, I just have to keep memorizing it and reciting it. I’m doing well in most respects, but it is like a large mountain climbing cliff and I’m starting the ascent. And hope I don’t fall along the way. I know what… Read more »
@SJF
Are those trick questions?
No. On both my mother’s and father’s side there was tendency to ditch the parents and family. On top of that my mother is BPD. Now with my sister and daughters, they look out for themselves first. My extended family is not representative of most, so I wondered about others here.
@ YaReally “Were you the old guy who kept rambling on about that zen & the art of motorcycles book?? Props to you for getting cleaned up and good on the other guys for giving you some real-talk about it and encouraging you getting your shit together.” Yes, that was me. Fucking retarded. You heard it right on the podcast. At the time of my realization and implementation and Scrib’s straight talk, this was the only cylinder in my engine in life that was really not working for me. All the other 7 cylinders were really putting out some fine… Read more »
Ok, YaReally, I can obsess as an autistic with my obsessive “superpower” lol and observe nonverbals accurately because of my training. Let’s see if you think that AFCs could understand the following report. Field Report I was out with Mrs. Gamer running errands. Went into store to get photos printed from Mrs. Gamer’s cell. Mrs. Gamer is sending strong nonverbal attraction signals for me as we walk in. Mrs. Gamer’s voice is very melodious at this time. Her amygdala is still running her behavior at the time. There’s a strong preselection context. Mrs. Gamer’s nonverbals are broadcasting that she’s in… Read more »
@yareally, HUGE SHOUTOUT to that manhood link. Funny thing is, about a year ago I read part of it, then dropped it and to never return due to business at work. I’ve found one section that makes it SO FUCKING CLEAR what I’m going through. I’ll post it here and I may just email it to my wife to show her through analogy what it’s like to be in my shoes. Ironically, this is also what I needed to read to finally be okay with getting action on the side if my wife doesn’t respond. HUNGER PAINS, MAN! “Because your… Read more »
Out for a while–we have a party to hit tonight. Maybe dancing after.
@YaReally P.S. I believe that chunk of text I quoted should be printed and saved to a file by any and every man who isn’t satisfied with his wife. Analogies are some powerful shit; sometimes they are the only thing to make the light bulb go off. I believe this analogy is strong enough to even break through the FI/hypergamy haze most women are in about their husgand’s “unrealistic demands” of sex.
@Redlight
Just to be clear. Yes, Briffault’s law is real. And not spectacular. It needs to be countered by red pill awareness and game. And a good, congruent patriarchal hand.
Mother nature doesn’t care about an individual in a species, just that the species (or more correctly Mother Nature herself–multiple species) survives, no matter how cruel things happen and exist (for an individual) within that species or species plural.
@YaReally, more gold of what I was doing wrong: “For example, you may expect people to respect you. Although this sounds like a good idea, it’s a poor expectation. Because it lacks direction, it will be difficult to get this expectation met. If your expectations are not specific enough to direct the behavior of others to meet your need, they are useless. Requiring others to listen when you’re speaking is a much better expectation of action for the other party to follow. The more you weed out optional behavior from your expectations, the less dysfunctional your expectations become. When you’re… Read more »
“I’m straight up going to email that to her . . . I’ll explain this to her . . .”
http://files.sharenator.com/nooooooooo128608700565281862_quotYou_need_to_get_a_check_in_your_brainquot-s358x254-118779-475.jpg
Even more gold:
“Failing to enforce your expectations will result in inward complaining. This allows resentment to build up against the offender. After enough violations have amassed and the frustration becomes too great, you will explode like a boiling pot. This often leads to disastrous consequences for your relationships.”
@newlyaloof

@Newlyaloof You gotta be careful about logically explaining things to your wife. Even if you are handing her an “analogy”–it is still logical to you and emotional for her. You need to be careful about negotiating desire. You have a tough row to hoe. I apologize that I scrolled by a bunch of what you wrote. Been busy. Ian Ironwood has some good stuff about married man game. Several Ebooks. Here is another “analogy” that I posted in a comment back in Oct. http://therationalmale.com/2015/09/30/hypergamy-knows-best/comment-page-2/#comment-120766 And I don’t know if you ever saw the essay “How Women Argue” on Illimitable Men:… Read more »
@kfg, upon further thought, and that hilarious pic, I think I’ll just explain the analogy. I’m good with public speaking and words anyhow. I just need to make sure I master that blurb so I don’t leave anything out.
@SJF thanks for the links. I’ll check them out.
@newlyaloof 1) at the VERY least wait for a few days or a week until your excitement high wears off and you can RATIONALLY assess whether sending her that shit is a good idea or not. You’re like a kid on Christmas wanting to show everyone what he got. Chill for a few days till you’re in a less emotional headspace. 2) change her mood, not her mind. You can’t LOGIC her into attraction. Just execute the appropriate shit and trust her feminine instincts to pick up on what’s happening…there’s a reason Dread Game is subtle instead of overt. You… Read more »
@SJF, that first link was funny as hell. They offered the starving analogy too, but thew in the pet angle. I can see that as a funny conversation to start up with my wife. I can clearly hear her say that if she couldn’t feed the cats, she’d get our lady neighbor to do so. Reading the other link now. What a great day of personal advancement, enlightenment, and understanding this day has been. Thanks all.
What YaReally said goes. X1000.
Do not use my comment link as fodder for explaining things to your wife. You can not as a man explain things to her. She will resent it. Understand the things you read. Do not explain logically to a woman. It will not work.
More shit I was doing wrong: “Many people mistakenly substitute yelling in place of punishment. Frustrated in their attempts to get their needs met, they employ idle threat and passive- aggressive whining. Some even assume that putting on an angry expression is painful enough. But making someone feel guilty for hurting you does nothing to actually stop their dysfunctional behavior. In fact, it only weakens your authority. Your punishments should apply pain, not convey your frustration. By focusing on how the other person affects your emotions, you are actually rewarding their dysfunctional behavior. Frustration reveals that they are the ones… Read more »
Lol. He’s on a roll now.
newlyaloof, Relax man. Breeeaattthhheeeee. The stuff you are doing per self improvement are for you and your eyes only. Do NOT explain what you are reading/learning with the wife. YaReally is correct – she won’t get it most likely. You do the work and the reading and the growth. She will reap the benefits in the long run by your active demonstrations. There is really no point in telling or showing her what you’ve begun to recognize as a source of tension and problems. Women do not think like we do and it could just blow up. If your patient… Read more »
@Blax. lol. I’m relaxed. Refer to my earlier comment about the Lisa Gerrard pandora channel. This is my last post for the night. I’m out the door to chill with the dudes and perhaps go to a local bar and open chicks.
One of the symptoms I had when I caught the Blue Pill virus during my first marriage was that I was always ” explaining ” shit, trying to get my wife’s ” understanding “. Looking back I’d wager that it caused panic inside of her. All of this sharing and emotions and requests for deeper understanding of ma feelz, and blah, blah, blah. Don’t. Do. That. Shit. Thanks. Personally, I don’t even express strong doubt around my current wife. I don’t want her understanding of Ma Feelz because only ” I ” control them and I don’t need her help… Read more »
Blaximus mentioned it up thread. No beta butthurt allowed, here.
Societal Anectdote:
Meet the husband of a chick that has been suspiciously “over friendly” with me. Dude is a jacked reconnaissance Marine. Spent like 10 years on the front lines. Good guy. I talked to him for like 15 minutes and he must have said “my wife made me xxx xxxxx” like 10 times. Like he was proud of it. Sigh…
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uI5OQmBCTQc
@Newlyaloof
Cosign SJF, Blaximus, YaReally.
Don’t tell, show. Demonstrate, don’t explicate. Or as Blaximus put it:
Looking back I’d wager that it caused panic inside of her. All of this sharing and emotions and requests for deeper understanding of ma feelz, and blah, blah, blah.
Don’t. Do. That. Shit. Thanks.
@Newly – Re: Parental Alienation – Dude, why would I get mad at you for bringing this up? I’ve talked about this stuff quite a bit. I’m not angry at YaReally – I’m pissed at ASD for how he got into it on the previous posts threads. Telling me to “game” my daughter and running “Daddy Destroyer Game” and being a total dick about it. Don’t fuck with me and I won’t fuck with you. But at a certain point, when I’m being fucked with, I will rip the guys liver out and wear it for a hat. I’ve put… Read more »
@ YaReally I get it that everyone doesn’t want to dance. I do and if someone wants to hang with me, they need to go to bars where there’s dancing that I like to do, even if they don’t want to dance. They can just chill, approach women, or whatever, but they need to be at the same venues if they want to hang with me/learn from me. A very little dance background: Lead/follow dancing (e.g. country two step, ballroom, swing, salsa) is different from freestyle dancing (e.g., hip hop). Country Two Step: The following video shows the Trautmans dancing… Read more »
@Ya – Thanks for the additional feedback on the FR. I agree with what you said, and it’s funny how my ego investments kicked in. This waitress was so young, 20 that i didn’t feel entitled to her pussy. I felt my wing was and played accordingly. It was much lower stakes for me so I was super freed up to play it full out, which was a very educational experience in and of itself. But sure. I wanted to fuck her. And yes, I think my wing will fuck it up so it’s kind of a waste – but… Read more »
@SJF – You took the advice and criticism. Somehow you knew it wasn’t ego motivated but rather an attempt to be of service to you and your life. I’m certainly not always right, but I damn well am committed to men escaping this fucked FI/Blue Pill, anti-masculine, disempowered mindset. Most people cannot take advice and criticism. They are too ego invested. I had to completely rebuild myself in my life before. I did 15 years of therapy and much other formal work to develop better ways of being and acting, and that work was terribly confronting. There is a great… Read more »