Neofemininity

Left: A child shows off his favorite nightgown. Right: Throughout the weekend make-up is applied, removed and reapplied and wardrobe change is constant.

I’ll admit my reluctance to address anything written by Kevin Powell, but as his most recent CNN pandering to the Feminine Imperative was the Twitter topic du jour in the manosphere this week I thought I’d make a perfunctory stab at it. I’m reluctant to do so because in doing a take-down article I’ll only be preaching to the choir and revisiting many well established topics I’ve covered on The Rational Male for years now.

What convinced me was a conversation I had with Mrs. Tomassi while walking my greyhounds this week. She asked me, “What the hell is wrong with boys these days? The all have no balls. It’s like they want to be girls or something.” We’ve had this discussion before. It usually gets brought up after she’s heard some story about the boys at my daughter’s high school or she sees it first-hand at a football game or some other event.

“Pretty soon, everyone is going to be a woman. Look at Bruce Jenner, “Woman of the Year”?! In the next ten years everyone will be a woman.”

I told her I think ten years might be too long.

When I read male-apologetics like Kevin Powell’s tribute to his own feminine ‘transitioning’ and his efforts at identifying and qualifying to be considered a more ‘perfected man’ in the terms set for him by a feminine-primary social order, it’s not hard to believe that social switch is right around the corner.

A Crisis of Manhood

Masculinity in “crisis” is a hot seller for click-bait articles these days. Women embrace the meme because it offers the tacit prospect of wrangling men into a more definitive control by the Feminine Imperative. Like all popular characterization of conventional masculinity, men have a problem and the cure is to become more like women.

Average men, the ones who make it their sexual strategy to better identify with the feminine, get behind the meme because it offers an easy opportunity to present themselves as the ‘evolved’, not-like-other-guys men they’ve been conditioned to believe women will sexually respond to favorably. Embracing this men-as-problem meme also offers them the opportunity to passively compete intrasexually with the conventionally masculine men then would otherwise never engage.

Before I dig into Powell’s article here I think it’s important to revisit my essay about Vulnerability. Powell’s ego is invested in the ‘strength in weakness’ theme his feminine conditioning has taught him is ennobling and as you read through his pleas for a more feminine-perfected social order he’ll return to it often.

From Vulnerability:

For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.

Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.

Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.

Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.

[…]Men are ridiculous posers. Men are socialized to wear masks to hide what the Feminine Imperative has decided is their true natures (they’re really girls wearing boy masks). Men’s problems extend from their inability to properly emote like women, and once they are raised better (by women and men who comply with the Feminine Imperative) they can cease being “tough” and get along better with women. That’s the real strength that comes from men’s feminized concept of vulnerability – compliance with the Feminine Imperative.

[…]It’s indictment of the definers of what masculinity ought to be that they still characterize modern masculinity (based on the ‘feels’) as being problematic when for generations our feminine-primary social order has conditioned men to associate that masculinity in as feminine-beneficial a context as women would want.

They still rely on an outdated formula which presumes the male experience is inferior, a sham, in comparison to the female experience, and then presumes to know what the male experience really is and offers feminine-primary solutions for it.

It’s important to understand the machinations in which the Feminine Imperative will define masculinity for men. In order to maintain social preeminence the Feminine Imperative must keep men perpetually confused about what masculinity really is. This is precisely why the “crisis” of masculinity will, deliberately, never be solved to the satisfaction of the imperative. To solve the ‘crisis’ would be to deny the Feminine Imperative a method of ever changing, fluid control over men.

Tail Chasing

Thus we get inquisitive articles or mandatory gatherings to discuss “what is manhood?” In a state of feminine social primacy men discussing new definitions of masculinity is always a proposition of men chasing their own tails, but the ambiguity of that question is a calculated one.

Men are encouraged to continually attempt to answer “what is manhood?”, but the touchy-feely equalist appropriate answer is never one defined by the men asking it; the answer is always provided to them and this is always “whatever serves women the best”. Their confused state is a deliberate perpetual one.

As I stated in Vulnerability the narrative of the Feminine Imperative about masculinity is one that’s based falsehoods. If men define masculinity for themselves, and that definition serves men’s exclusive interests it is equated with posing or a front men falsely wear to mask the real masculinity that feminine primacy has ordained as legitimate.

So even when men collectively compare notes and prioritize their needs and their sexual strategy in the context of a legitimate definition of masculinity, the social narrative of feminism and feminine primacy readily disqualifies it as a being a macho bravado worn by men to cover their real vulnerable sensitive feminine-corrected egos provided for them by the imperative.

One of the ways of determining whether the propaganda you’ve dropped from the planes is sinking into the general populace is that your language, your narrative and your public relations material is willfully being professed by the people you hope to conquer. To say Powell is a Vichy Male wouldn’t do his obliviousness to being so credit. Powell is a testament to the degree to which feminine-primary, feminine-correct thought has saturated into men confused about their own masculinity, and the feminine correct definitions of it he’s ready to evangelize.

Neofemininity

Powell’s ego-investment in his feminine-defined masculinity is glaringly apparent.  To attack his belief is to attack his personality, but it’s important to note that his evangelizing reveals his obliviousness to his Blue Pill conditioning. Powell isn’t making a case for a ‘healthier masculinity’; he’s advocating for men adopting a neo-femininity in place of conventional masculinity. Powell is essentially advocating men become more perfected women and renaming that state “masculinity”.

I knew the guys were not comfortable with these mandatory gatherings, so I started each with a simple question:
What is a man?

Sighs of relief and phrases such as “leader,” “protector,” “caretaker,” “responsible,” “head of the house” fell from their mouths. Each session, I told them that they had just described my single mother and most women I’ve encountered in my life. These young men would grow quiet.

Powell kicks things off here with the blank-slate “men and women are functional equals” I described in Hypergamy Knows Best. This is the same “women are just as good at fathering as any man could be” rationale that reinforces men’s superfluousness with women. However, in doing so he sets the stage for defining masculinity in neo-feminine terms.

I grew up as most heterosexual boys did: I played every sport possible. I learned early on the rite-of-passage of seeing girls as sexual objects, as playthings, as anything except my equal. I fought because boys were taught to fight, be rough, antagonistic, to never show weakness, not even to cry, at least not in public. I digested every kind of pop cultural icon one could name, on television, in movies, in books, in my beloved hip-hop culture, who represented the mighty male figure that armies of us were instructed we must become.

This behavior led to catastrophic results for me. I had no clue how to express a balance of emotions for many years: It was either thunderous silence or raw explosions of rage. I did not know how to give love to myself or women and girls, and by the time I got to college, I merely did what other young males on my campus did: I had sex as casually as I slipped on my jeans and sneakers, and often did not give much thought to the woman on the receiving end. And I eventually pushed a girlfriend, post-college, into a bathroom door as we were arguing, the culmination of years of backward and very warped definitions of manhood imprisoned in pain and trauma.

Powell attempts to frame his case for a neo-feminine definition of masculinity in what are now very clichéd, very expected personal vignettes. It follows the Script.

We have the ostensibly ‘tough’ boy who grew up to be so thanks to a comically stereotypically male acculturation that taught him how to adapt and survive in his environment, but all of which stunted his capacity to balance his emotions. Emotional expression and an overemphasis on understanding emotion (in favor of reason) in men is the hallmark of a social narrative that prioritizes the feminine as the correct social context.

The story continues as expected. The kid who had no positive model of masculinity presented to him has an epiphany, renounces his unhealthy masculinity and adopts a non-toxic feminine-defined ‘healthy masculinity’ that prioritizes women under the auspices of “equality”. Most of his corrupted upbringing of course being the fallout from not having his superfluous father around to instruct him. My guess is Mom wasn’t quite the ‘equal’ of being the man he hoped to equate her with earlier.

Just as the feminist movement in America has challenged male domination in every form, a men’s movement is needed now more than ever before. The movement must be inclusive of males of all ages and backgrounds, rooted in peace, love and healthy definitions of manhood that include viewing women and girls as our equals. It should be a movement that is not in opposition to women, not trying to return to the days of “the rugged man,” but one that makes room for every kind of man possible (including men on the LGBTQ spectrum), where we can be vulnerable, emotionally available, truly free.

This is the crux of Powell’s misinformation. The ideal ‘masculinity’ in Powell’s estimate isn’t one of rugged individualism, but rather one that is more feminine-corrected; one in which a believes that society has progressed to a point where his personal vulnerabilities and emotionalism will not only be appreciated, but a source of intersexual attraction. His ideal simply amounts to a common plea for men to identify with women so thoroughly that they answer the question “what is a man?” with “a better woman.”

That Powell subscribes to egalitarian equalism is a given here, but what he needs to truly grasp is that men and women are not, and never have been functional equals. It’s ironic that he should describe his single mother ‘as a man’ and then go on to tell the story of his misspent masculine youth – he makes the case for necessary complentarianism without even realizing it. While I do agree about the necessity of understanding individuals other than ourselves, Powell never makes the connection that it is men upon whom the onus of understanding women always falls. You will never read deep soul searching testimonials like this from women who look to redefine femininity in ways that better accommodate the emotional health of men.

Caricatures of Masculinity

I undertook this post today because of a story I heard on NPR recently. It was about a tribe of Native Americans (I believe in Montana) who were struggling to preserve their indigenous language. The problem was that most of its native speakers were dying out and there were less than six tribe members who still used the language.

During the late 1800s there was a program instituted by the government that made great, often cruel, efforts to assimilate these Indian children into western society. That meant forbidding them from speaking their native tongue and adopting an American social identity. Being young, the kids had little choice and not the same sense of ethnic belonging to really understand why their parents would resist this assimilation.

I think a similar dynamic has been in effect in western culture with regard to masculinity for over sixty years. It’s come full circle now to the point where ‘men’ like Powell only know the caricatured, ridiculous portrayals of conventional masculinity when they need a convenient straw man to blow down. It’s like Indian children seeing the grotesque cartoon parodies of people of their ethnicity in the movies or media; after the laughter and denigration they come to a point of self-loathing where they gladly embrace the new racial identity that’s prepared for them.

The point of Powell’s article was a plea to more thoroughly assimilate young men into a neo-feminine definition of masculinity. He believes that a re-education of boys would help avert more mass shootings by these same young men.  So invested is he in this narrative that the question of whether doubling-down on the re-education in feminine primacy already in place might in fact be the associative cause of these shootings, men’s 4-times higher rate of suicide or PTSD. This isn’t even an afterthought for him.

To Powell the only cure resides with women. To become more like women is masculinity to him. We will denigrate and admonish the overt sexualization of young girls, but when young boys wish to ‘transition’ into being girls themselves we praise them for it, we celebrate it. Feminine primacy consolidates power by replicating itself in men.

The primary reason I went to the effort of writing the Red Pill Parenting series was to help men stave off the total, ethnocidal-like destruction of any semblance of conventional masculinity by men like Powell bent on replacing it with ‘perfected’, male-embodied femininity. The problem isn’t one of boys adopting toxic masculinity, it’s the institutionalized gender-loathing re-education that Powell so desperately endorses. Neofemininity will be the realm of boys and men in tomorrow’s idealism.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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agent p
agent p
6 years ago

MRM got all the focus in the movie simply because they systematically make public noise and make camera ready moments. They of course make the fundamental mistake that they assume logic can win the war because they see the problem as a simple one of equalist logic. To @Rollo’s point, they don’t comprehend or they won’t accept biological determinism is root code and sitting right on top of that is feelz. They are able to tap into men’s feelz but they are piss poor communicators with women. Sadly every one of those guys, Dean etc, they all come off as… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Just something more to be disgusted with… Cassie Jaye’s “The Red Pill” movie will obviously be nothing more than a propaganda stunt to further enforce the illusion of gender egalitarian equality (sameness) . It is nothing more than another shit ass attempt to condition people to believe the genders are inherently exactly the same and that sexual differences and psychological differences are only superficial and interchangeable like clothing as if masculinity and femininity are nothing more than costumes we can don and discard at will. Cassie Jaye’s smirks and body language reveal the truth about her. Her tone of voice… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

The reason there are so many “neofemine” men and gays and transgenders and yes Blue Pill Mangina White Knight fuck heads …. is not just hormones during pregnancy but also hormone levels throughout life. Low T Levels are literally making men effeminate. Never investigated it beyond that; as far as I know there is something in the western environment (plastics ?) that is biologically causing men to not be so manly anymore. There are studies about various chemical pollutants entering the water supply causing the same effects on the male body as female hormones. This probably has a lot to… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

If we enacted the MI in full force, we would not be in an improved circumstance. Men compete, often viciously, for access to women. It’s not merely female sexual choice that allows hypergamy to happen; the male lek is an essential part of the process. Switching from the FI to the MI only changes the side of the coin that we see emphasized. The majority of men lose either way. We need to decide which things are most important to us in society. And we need to be clear-eyed in evaluating human nature, so that we can reasonably predict which… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

“As I’ve stated before, truths must be brought to women by men. Women simply don’t possess the insight to delve into the excesses of their own unfettered sexual strategy. Men must bring this truth to them, but in doing so we need to evaluate our own sexual imperatives and how they interact with those of women; then we can establish a more pragmatic and humane social order that both limits the excesses and accommodates the benefits of both imperatives.”

…….and then they lived happily ever after?

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

Why not live your adult life not becoming obese, eating a good diet, lifting weights or being strong from physical exertion, not over-indulging in alcohol, not being stressed out and lacking control over your circumstances and outcomes in life and living a blue pill existence? Having courage, adventure and mastery over something/everything? Having Real Power? I’m not criticizing you (not knowing you), but how many factors in low T are exogenous conspiracies and how many are under a man’s control or lack of control? The reason most men don’t go to the gym is the same reason why most overweight… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

I think you may be generalizing a bit too much to see this as related to gestational hormonal exposure. I don’t recall seeing any research showing that the rate of homosexual male births was increasing, and that would be the case if what you were saying was driving fetal hormonal exposure.

On the other hand, I recall reading a study about gestational hormonal exposure causing the ongoing drop in the average sperm count in Western societies, also caused by chemical pollution in the first place.

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

My natural, non-FI induced view sees that most of the 39ers are broken, wrecked human beings if they are still single. It’s kind of sick to watch. They become more crass and ridiculous, more anxious, more insistent and are just trying so hard it’s kind of impossible to be around and not laugh at. It’s as though they are demanding we buy into all their buffers and nonsense as the price of entry or something. I see this as well all the time, not just in real life but on social media as well. These bitter, whiny, cynical, rapidly ageing,… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

Good news? Nobody is paying attention to him, no matter how many talks he gives or how many articles he writes. Fuck him. He’ll get some buzz for a month or two, get a few gigs at colleges on the back of his writing this latest festering horseshit, he’ll write another book and use it to leverage more college gigs.

What’s pathetic is that probably that’s actually all he wants..

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  hoellenhund2

@teddj4g “Women and men were oppressed in different ways to keep the balance.” About to play at practice and you got me thinking of this. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=liKnJ-ejztw @Rollo Tommassi “Society at large simply does not care about men and social sentiment must proceed changes in legislation.” Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I’d strike the sun if it insulted me. Herman Melville, Moby-Dick; or, The Whale “One reason egalitarianism is an appealing cover story to feminism is because of the desire of the FI to level the sexual competition playing field for all women to optimize Hypergamy at the expense… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

Giving up and just admitting defeat is understandable, but it’s not an alternate strategy nor does it change any of the rules of the game. It’s just giving up. You will still want sex. You will still be drawn to the curves and laughter of nubile women. It should be pointed out that current society is structured in such a way that the average man isn’t exposed to the curves and laughter of attractive, slender, well-kept, nubile flesh-and-blood women unless he consciously chooses a lifestyle where he regularly inserts himself in those fairly isolated social circles where such women are… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

“Hey guys, I’m MGTOW. Are you looking? Do you see how MGTOW I am? What do you mean you don’t care? Look at me going my own way. Are you looking? What do you mean you don’t care that I’m going my own way? How am I supposed to be MGTOW if no one recognizes me as MGTOW? Where’d all of you go? Hello? Are you listening to my MGTOW podcast? Hello?” Except that’s nothing but a silly caricature of a real and widespread phenomenon, a caricature derived from blowing some marginal online phenomenon out of all proportion. The simple… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

MRA’s don’t go about it the right way at all in my book. Like them suing to get women registered for the draft? WTF is that???? We shouldn’t be sending our daughters to war. That is the realm of men. That is our burden to carry. Sucks, but there it is. They say they are on the side of men, but all they are is on the side of equality. I’m just not convinced that is the best way to wage the battle? Fighting for equality? Just seems like more feminism to me. The status quo, i.e. feminism in practice,… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Hh2, Yeah, I don’t agree with the MRA tactics, but as I said I am directly benefiting from their hard work, and I don’t have an alternate suggestion on how else to do it. Short of a worldwide event that violently shoves people back into traditional roles, I don’t see much changing soon. If the MRAs can help individual men through legislation, then I’m all for it. But it feels like settling. As forge says, would it be any better anyway? Lots of advantages for men thatvlearn game, are RP, and avoid the mistake of marriage. Unless that was his… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

Of course the angle I would want to see in such a movie is simply that of positive masculinity. Of functional complementary relationships with happy well grounded children (for those that are married and have kids) who feel right in the world and enjoy the love and stability of their parents. Unfortunately there is no victim in that narrative so it doesn’t warrant time on Dr Phil, Oprah or any SJW / leftist MSM agenda. Unless such a well adjusted normal member of society gets gunned down or blown up, there is no reference to them in any kind of… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

(Meh, the HTML code got fucked up again.) Of course the angle I would want to see in such a movie is simply that of positive masculinity. Of functional complementary relationships with happy well grounded children (for those that are married and have kids) who feel right in the world and enjoy the love and stability of their parents. Unfortunately there is no victim in that narrative so it doesn’t warrant time on Dr Phil, Oprah or any SJW / leftist MSM agenda. Unless such a well adjusted normal member of society gets gunned down or blown up, there is… Read more »

hoellenhund2
6 years ago

Short of a worldwide event that violently shoves people back into traditional roles, I don’t see much changing soon.

I don’t either.

kobayashii1681
6 years ago

@Rollo:

“The abusive social controls and the efforts to maintain the FI as the predominant social order of our era need to be understood from what motivates them at their base. Similarly, if we want to build a positive masculinity to counter and correct this we need to begin with what motivates men on a root level.”

Exactly! As illimitablemen says, we need to “reconstruct our understanding from the ground up!”

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

hoellenhund2 October 27th, 2015 at 7:11 pm I felt myself average at one time about 30 years. I didn’t like that feeling and I didn’t like the possibility that it might keep me from real power later (you know control over my circumstances, and control of the direction of my life). So I decided to do something about it and vowed that I never wanted to be shut out in my goals or personal missions. I refused to settle. And I didn’t use buffers to preserve my ego investments. And I certainly decided I wouldn’t settle for an average woman… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

MGTOW’s in man’s search for pussy (otherwise know as the Masculine Imperative):

“I’d rather lose for what I am than win for what I ain’t
Yeah, I’d rather lose for what I am than win for what I ain’t”

70'sAntiHero
6 years ago

@Rollo “MRA’s approach is to highlight the plight of men and hope that this will have the desired effect and lead to changes. What MRAs forget or just don’t know, is that for this approach to work people first have to care about the group in question and once they do you can then tap into that.” Perhaps a first step. Although, I don’t necessarily appreciate the intent of MRAs. It just seems more of the same SJW trope group think petitioning to the State or Government or Society in largess for special group rights. Just another bullshit power grab… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  70'sAntiHero

@70santihero
http://www.tnellen.com/westside/harrison.pdf

Caveclown SJF hoellenhund2 kobayashii1681

I don’t think anyone knows
But some of the best science fiction I grew up with ask the question.

I fucking love the gang on men rugby. Fuck trauma and pain and living the best I can.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  70'sAntiHero

I fucking love the gang of men I play with in rugby. Fuck trauma and pain I am living the best I can. Meant this And this Invictus BY WILLIAM ERNEST HENLEY Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of… Read more »

Black Dynamite
Black Dynamite
6 years ago

I have a LOT of articles to catch up on (including this one) and two books to re-read like a bible for good measure. Around Aug 29th I asked for advice on whether I should pursue a super hot psych major, the consensus was hit and quit, psych girls are crazy (they are). I hit and almost didn’t quit, things were going so well, I am busy as hell and she had to play to my busy schedule, so it took time to finally hit. We were getting along so fast prior to it, she was treating me like the… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  Black Dynamite

@Black Dynamit
How was she as a French girl? Was speaking to Goldman about that at the conference. In bed or as a lover or just a person to learn from. I’m half french so I find it ironic and interesting.

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
6 years ago

From Rollo’s comment at 3:33 (some characters and some whole words removed) —‘s approach is to highlight the plight of — and hope that this will have the desired effect and lead to changes. What —s forget or just don’t know, is that for this approach to work people first have to care about the group in question and once they do you can then tap into that. Society at large simply does not care about — and social sentiment must proceed changes in legislation. —s lack of success is due to their lack of understanding the basics. Not only… Read more »

Black Dynamite
Black Dynamite
6 years ago

@rugby11ljh As a person very unapologetic in her speech. In my city, women are prudes, with her, she would talk about whatever was on her mind, say something dirty like it was normal, or just talk about her passions like it’s everyday banter. All with total confidence. And talking dirty/sexting was effortless on both ends. In bed she was incredible but I don’t know if being French had anything to do with it, she’s just a super sexual female (HB 9). Not conservative in bed either. Cursing and saying dirty things throughout. Liked to dominate and be dominated. I’ll have… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago
SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Heheh, Scribbler you’re an asshole for starting off our day like that.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@LH – Good catch and very insightful. I do still bring too much heart to women sometimes. It’s a hard habit to break. At least I’m not angry about it now though. I also get what you are saying, I just think @HopelessCuntery is at a different level. 5 marriages – she’s got to be at least a “3 sigma event” as we say in the risk business (when I used to be in it). Even more interesting is how a guy could be so fucked in the head that he’d marry a woman who’s been married 5 times? I… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Leopard – Of course you don’t understand what I’m saying – you are still living in a Blue Pill reality and have little understanding of what’s being discussed here. Note to yourself: I didn’t explain shit to you, I gave you a “recipe” of what to go read that would lay out the Red Pill world for you. If you do what I suggested, you would not be confused by what I say at all. But what’s clear as a bell from your comment is that you have no idea what the Red Pill actually is and you certainly have… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

I hope the kid gets his ass beaten up over and over. Will serve the parents right.

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

In some regions in my home country there is a saying: every family needs 3 sons, 1 for immigration, 1 for war, and 1 to keep the family name alive. I guess the MI beyond the the biological needs, is also about accumulating wealth, security/power/social status, and passing on a legacy to the next generation. The current legal system is making sure that man have none of all that. I doubt we’ll see any dinasty(clan) raising up anytime soon. The times when someone like Sam Walton can build an empire are gone. Yet, I think the FI has played its… Read more »

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

To expand a little further on my last paragraph. Consider women as the Federal Reserve of Human currency/capital. They are the only one that can issue it, they have no limits on how much they can create it and they can sell it. They control the market.

What will happen if we stop population growth as well as be able to have babies through artificial wombs? We decentralize and drastically reduce the control that women have on the creation and ownership of human capital.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

What MRAs forget or just don’t know, is that for this approach to work people first have to care about the group in question and once they do you can then tap into that.

While I agree with this, in defense of the MRM, it’s possible that this movie could be a catalyst to create that empathy. Cassie Jaye talks about that here how reading books, articles or looking at the issues one by one doesn’t have the same impact as actually meeting the people and seeing where their intentions lie and where their heart is.

https://youtu.be/6jSBpdnBrPc?t=36m20s

lh
lh
6 years ago

@ETA: What you are trying to do with artificial wombs is getting control of the children. But as stated earlier the MI is about Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality with no liability for that sexuality. The artificial womb is actually no sex and maximum liability. The natural way of men is not spending their time raising children and I personally for sure wouldn’t want it. The natural way is to distribute your sperm as far as possible, diversification basically, and let nature decide what they become. It’s not maximum investment in one child, it’s many children with minimum investment in… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

Don’t be so pessimistic. A few days ago Milo posted visitor figures for Breitbart on Twitter. They leave quite a few major mainstream media outlets in the dust. And as far as I know Breitbart has little on offer other than Milo saying what the FI doesn’t want to hear. There is a market for anti-FI and the Internet offers ways to reach it besides the traditional mainstream media.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“The artificial womb is . . .”

. . . a weapon of power. Its legitimate use is at the bargaining table.
Mind the mineshaft gap.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@ETA “The first steps that can be taken(beside sharing RP knowledge) is for men to have more Male spaces in real life. Where they can minimize the influence of the FI. Soon they will start to create new male rituals and male rites of passage. For men to have any value in this society they have to take back full ownership/rights of their semen and genes. Men need to use the law to artificially increase the value of it. I guess we’ll have a greater possibility of achieving that, when an artificial womb can be created, as well as when… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

@kfg: Theoretically. But think it through: All the women has to do is saying “ok, you can take my womb” once and bang! there goes your power-weapon and everything is just as before. You still got the issue who does the work with the children too.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

And furthermore, that Wikipedia link ends with this paragraph which parallels Rollo’s insightful commentary on inter-sexual motivations. “Another theme running throughout the book is that humanity’s traditional “hero-systems” i.e. religion, are no longer convincing in the age of reason; science is attempting to solve the problem of humanity, something that Becker feels it can never do. The book states that we need new convincing “illusions” that enable us to feel heroic in the grand scheme of things, i.e. immortal. Becker, however, does not provide any definitive answer, mainly because he believes that there is no perfect solution. Instead, he hopes… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@lh: Men’s ultimate weapon is simply the word, “No.” It may take some time for them to learn to wield it properly again, they’re a bit out of training.

There are still some seasoned combat vets who can help.

Striver
Striver
6 years ago

I am going to disagree with Rollo on his definition of MI. Rollo is defining MI in the shadow of FI. Now I understand that in the current cosmopolitan world, the argument goes that you can’t lock down the woman, maybe can’t lock down paternity at all, so just get your rocks off, spread the seed, and don’t care otherwise. I also think that in any society men are tempted to cheat, poach, get some easy sex and maybe even paternity. But Rollo’s definition of MI ignores history. We know that men are at greater risk of not passing on… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

The feminist resistance and the evisceration the Cathedral will do to the reviews of this movie will be an indictment of fem-centric society.

On the bright side, if this is what happens then the MRM would have to confront the idea that their strategy is never going to work. If this chick can’t pull it off how could anyone else?

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Stirver – holy shit man! I didn’t see it right before my eyes. But not only would never knowing who the baby daddy is serve the FI, it also allows the Fed easier access to our children (as if public school indoctinatrion isn’t enough) AND a means to essentially tax every man alive to raise other men’s kids.

Just when I think the rabbit hole ends, there’s a fucking branch to the side.

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

In many cases paternity was about the passing of wealth and/or property. A man didn’t want to toil his entire life to build an empire, and leave it to another mans child.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . it also allows the Fed easier access to our children (as if public school indoctinatrion isn’t enough) AND a means to essentially tax every man alive to raise other men’s kids.”

Duuude, I quote: “It takes a village to raise a child.”

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

KFG – my error was not taking that shit seriously. I literally LOLed the first time I heard Hillary say that. I should know to never underestimate the stupidity of the voting populace.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“In many cases paternity was about the passing of wealth and/or property.”

This is the definition of marriage. It is a contract of inheritance. “Legitimate” doesn’t mean “born within wedlock,” it means “legal heir.” A father (and only a father, can acknowledge and legitimize a bastard). As I have said quite a number of times, women want children, men want a legacy.

What’s love got to do with it? Absolutely nothin’! Say it again.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

I think the part of the MI that is getting glossed over is the fact that we want to spread our seed to as many chicks as possible, without cause or concern for others, including women, children and especially other men. “Unlimited access” to sexuality includes removing barriers in the way. So is marriage and monogamy, both barriers to unlimited sexuality, really a construct of men trying to counter women’s duplicitous hypergamous nature, or is it a female construct that ensures provisioning and the limiting of male sexuality? If he has promised monogamy, she can more readily cuckold him? ???… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

CaveClown – I’m in the camp that leans toward marriage being an invention of men to ensure lineage. In the old days marriage was also a way for families to acquire and accumulate wealth, and you don’t want women messing up who inherits your money. So, the answer was restrict them to minimal freedom, and punish them severely when they strayed.

Harsh! You betcha! Effective? Hard to say. On paper it looks great, but life has a way of fucking up brilliant plans.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Well, if the FI succeeds in stifling the movie maybe she’ll just put it up on youtube for free. Hopefully from there it might aid in our underground movement.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

The first half of this video by one of the leading female voices of AVfM, where she explains why she does it, ought to make every red pill man’s blood run cold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFdTVMiD0UI

As for marriage, what it began as is not what it became. The FI had millennia to shape it more to their advantage, just as women are shaping the MRM to their advantage.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Locking down paternity is a social construct developed by men with a lesser capacity to scatter their seed, but the impetus to do so still remains. We evolved to solve the problem of Hypergamy in the most efficient, species-survival ensuring way. This. The relative cost of sperm vs. egg, hidden estrus and sexual dimorphism explains the FI, the MI, women’s preference for serial polyandry, women’s preference for indirection vs. direct talk, War Brides and a whole lot of other things. Simple biological facts. Right out in the open, where anyone can see them. And the implications have been fogged and… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Simple biological facts.”

It’s babies; all the way down.

Or, as Lewis Thomas put it, “I come from a long line of cells.”

lh
lh
6 years ago

So is marriage and monogamy, both barriers to unlimited sexuality, really a construct of men trying to counter women’s duplicitous hypergamous nature, or is it a female construct that ensures provisioning and the limiting of male sexuality? That is indeed the question, Cave. And the right answer cannot be taken from history, but must come from a man’s MPO or the MI. The difficult part is getting really to your MPO without all the learned stuff. In my opinion men favoring marriage today try to hold onto what worked under the old set of books. They learned this used to… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

@Rollo: I should clarify I don’t try to advocate for more MRA in the mainstream or wider society. No one wants men crying for help like women do. But I think there are both commercial and attention possibilities for “anti-FI” or MI ideas. Just image you’d find someone from some filming background you happen to trust on this matters and you would make some RationalMale movie or documentary with him. Of course you’d still have to make it right, but I guess you could get it funded easily from fellow brothers and if it runs at some festivals is irrelevant… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

re: Legacy:

Look at some of oldest heroes: Achilles wanted the legacy, to be remembered. And while he succeeded, Odysseus not only lived longer but also got the far bigger legacy. And all he wanted is not talking shit from the gods and getting to build his kingdom.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@HH – Every MGTOW is one blowjob from a hottie away from leaving that lifestyle. It’s making a virtue of necessity. There is nothing admirable or gallant or noble about it. It’s a rage-quit on women and sex, plain and simple. Fair enough – it’s your choice but just acknoweldge that you’ve resigned from the game because you sucked at it. Don’t pretend there is virtue involved. Accordingly, I’m not interested. There is real virtue in playing the lot of a man’s life, of competing as best as you can and winning what you can in many areas of life… Read more »

Shiva
Shiva
6 years ago

@teddj4g “CaveClown – I’m in the camp that leans toward marriage being an invention of men to ensure lineage. In the old days marriage was also a way for families to acquire and accumulate wealth, and you don’t want women messing up who inherits your money. So, the answer was restrict them to minimal freedom, and punish them severely when they strayed. Harsh! You betcha! Effective? Hard to say. On paper it looks great, but life has a way of fucking up brilliant plans.” Allow me to go tangential a bit on this, but the various innovations and systems developed… Read more »

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

“The masculine imperative – Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality with no liability for that sexuality.” While I agree with this statement, I don’t think it is conclusive in reflecting entirely what MI is about. On the other hand AF/BB reflects the full picture of the nature of FI. If we compare the two statements, the first one has only the biological component in it. While the AF/BB has a social component, too. You can build an entire society based on AF/BB, we already have it today. But, as far as I know, I haven’t heard of any society that was… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“On the other hand AF/BB reflects the full picture of the nature of FI.”

I’ve gotta ask why, at a purely instinctual biological level, that AF/BB is not ALSO the MI?

It seems to me that both sides seek to restrict the sexual access of beta’s, and to prioritize the sexual access of relatively high SMV women and alphas.

???

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Tedd, Striver ” But not only would never knowing who the baby daddy is serve the FI, it also allows the Fed easier access to our children (as if public school indoctrination isn’t enough) AND a means to essentially tax every man alive to raise other men’s kids. Just when I think the rabbit hole ends, there’s a fucking branch to the side.” Oddly, I’d never explicitly thought of it in these terms either. But concealed ovulation is a very unusual trait, almost unique to humans, and its core purpose is to leave men in the dark as to paternity.… Read more »

Shiva
Shiva
6 years ago

@Glenn “@HH – Every MGTOW is one blowjob from a hottie away from leaving that lifestyle. It’s making a virtue of necessity. There is nothing admirable or gallant or noble about it. It’s a rage-quit on women and sex, plain and simple. Fair enough – it’s your choice but just acknoweldge that you’ve resigned from the game because you sucked at it. Don’t pretend there is virtue involved.” A only a perfect gentleman like you will pigeonhole every MGTOW into an incel. You will not discuss the likes of Lui Marco, who is a successful youtuber, fitness expert, body builder… Read more »

Shiva
Shiva
6 years ago

@ETA, “I see it as both, it’s balance between the MI and FI. No matter how much people cry Patriarchy, there a fair distribution of risks/responsibilities and rights back in the days.” Under a traditional complete Patriarchy, the man would be compelled and married off before the age of 20, produce multiple kids and work like a donkey for the Patriarch. The man would not marry by his choice but that of the Patriarch. Marriages were more like marital alliances. It was expected of all sons and younger brothers. Patriarchs were not perfect and occasionally had favorite sons(The prodigal son)… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

Glenn didn’t “pigeonhole every MGTOW into an incel”. He only stated MGTOW didn’t run the full circle yet, they are stuck somewhere on the way. That’s what he was some time back and it was once the same for me. I think the key is the MPO. MGTOW’s understood that but it needs practice, living it for a some time, until it is really that essential part of your personality and doesn’t go away even if you expose yourself to lots of Oxytocin. The more “natural alpha” you experienced, the easier it probably is enacting this. But in the end,… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“Just that marriage and LTR are completely off the table.”

If this is the definition of MGTOW, than half the men I know IRL are MGTOW’s. The other half are putting pussy on the pedestal yet. A sprinkling of sexually successful men in there too.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Shiva – You emit drivel and don’t even realize it. Your comment on the nuclear family and patriarchy was half-coherent, pidgin blather. MGTOW means eschewing pursuing women and sexual contact. If it doesn’t mean that, it means nothing. One of the many large problems with MGTOW is that there are “no true MGTOW” and a floating definition of it is always used . Lui Marco and Barbarossa get laid – hence they are not MGTOW in any meaningful sense of the word. If MGTOW just means you don’t get married, well then it means nothing at all and makes one… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Every MGTOW is one blowjob from a hottie away from leaving that lifestyle.

Honestly, I think a simple compassionate hug from a young woman might do the trick for a lot of guys in this world.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Cave – Now you are getting the “hide the MGTOW” shell game these guys play with their definitions. And let’s be clear – an incel is someone who doesn’t want to be celibate but is. A MGTOW is someone who has decided to become celibate and asexual. If you are going to engage with women and try to fuck them, you aren’t MGTOW. Period. Dot. End of motherfucking sentence. Pro-Tip: I deal with lots of Indian men in my work in hi-tech startups and their arrogance and supremacist vibe is quite well known to me. Notice how Shiva talks down… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Since so many articles you have been pissing on so many commentators Jeremy, dragon tattoo, NBTM. etc. under the guise of calling their bullshits. You have a need/desperation to AMOG/dominate every conversation regardless of the consequence.

@Shiva

Thanks for saying this man. So true.

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Shiva – I appreciate the backstory. Fascinating stuff. I’m only 3rd generation born in the US for my family, so as a child I remember the last vestiges of the Old World extended family. Certainly not the extent you described, but there was clearly a Patriarch, and a structure under him. I spent much of my youngest childhood with my cousins and extended family at one or another relatives house. We had family dinners that required fold up tables and multiple rooms to seat everyone, because everyone came to THOSE dinners. Of course we collectively didn’t have a pot to… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
6 years ago

“The masculine imperative – Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality with no liability for that sexuality.” It is a bit interesting that this idea also arose fairly recently (I think it was around 25 – 30 years ago) , within a completely foreign discourse to the redpill discourse, – out of the wacky far-reaches of the cultural fringe-element, (but I have no idea what to make or this, perhaps nothing, perhaps it is purely coincidental but it is interesting nevertheless to see this meme arise elsewhere). The idea of which I speak comes for Terence McKenna (now deceased psilocybin mushroom cult-theorist… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I’ve gotta ask why, at a purely instinctual biological level, that AF/BB is not ALSO the MI?”

Because men labor for resources to give to women, while women scheme to receive them from men.

There’s no BB in the MI, and because of the high sex drive the AF is considerably weaker. The fact that men fertilize and women gestate really does make quite a difference.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

I’ve gotta ask why, at a purely instinctual biological level, that AF/BB is not ALSO the MI?” Because men labor for resources to give to women, while women scheme to receive them from men. There’s no BB in the MI, and because of the high sex drive the AF is considerably weaker. The fact that men fertilize and women gestate really does make quite a difference.” KFG, Interesting stuff. I guess is that cavemen had more of a chimpanzee style of patriarchy though, which is an alpha that fucks all the chicks and is usually very lazy except when fighting… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Cave Clown: More like chimps yes, but not like chimps. We’re somewhere between chimps and bonobos. The MI leans more to the chimp side and the FI more to the bonobo side. You are discussing intra-sex dynamics, which while not an entirely unrelated subject (it’s babies all the way down) isn’t the same as inter-sex dynamics, and there men and women also behave differently; all women belonging the the sisterhood by right, men belonging to specialized groups by specialty upon making a rite of passage. @Scribbler: You seem to be inventing MGTOW 3.0 in order to declare it the one,… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  kfg

@Rollo Tommassi “Now consider that on the cell phone you carry in your hand every day you have access to virtually experiencing an unlimited access to unlimited sexuality that even Roman Emperors didn’t have, to say nothing of the average man up until the last decade.” Funny you mention this. Was journaling about porn and buffering all day. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aEpa21af2j4 @kfg “You are discussing intra-sex dynamics, which while not an entirely unrelated subject (it’s babies all the way down) isn’t the same as inter-sex dynamics, and there men and women also behave differently; all women belonging the the sisterhood by right,… Read more »

BK
BK
6 years ago

Rollo, thought you’d like this comedic piece from McSweeneys – blue pill view that hypergamy is hilarious
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-stay-at-home-dad-documents-his-sex-life-on-a-fitbit

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

As I’m always saying, to test the strength of an idea requires an open forum and an objective debate. Once the appeal for funding went out to the ‘sphere this documentary ceased to be about objectivity.

This is the argument the FI will use to discredit the documentary, but a bunch of small donors from the manosphere isn’t going to have enough influence to modify the editing. It doesn’t change the facts of the film. And it doesn’t take away Jaye’s previous accomplishments. IMO the more people we can wake up the better.

stuttie
6 years ago

@BK – that was painful to read but that same scenario would play out for 90% of married dudes in the western world.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Regardless, I think it will be a great documentary to show women. They’ll solipsistically put themselves in Jaye’s shoes as she figures out that men are marginalized and that most of western society is brainwashed into believing men=bad.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  Andy

Male power and sexual connection to society. At a DC gathering and find this appropriate
http://truthofself.com/?get_group_doc=15/1424259312-marcusaureliusmeditationstr.casaubon1.pdf

Wild Man
Wild Man
6 years ago

@stuttie – in a married situation, maybe one way to avoid what happens to alot of married dudes as depicted in the McSweeneys piece (but I’m pretty sure 90% is a big exaggeration as to how many married guys so completely submit to such a desert of fucks) is found in a better way as to signalling how the man uses the porn. When I was married the 3 times a week I was getting the fucks (for the first 15 of 20 years anyway) wasn’t nearly enough. So I used porn. The idea is – don’t hide the fact,… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

I think RP men get their hopes up about documentaries etc time and time again, but revelation seems to make no difference. I watched her trailer and who knows what she’s going to say, and that asshat Paul Elam doesn’t speak for me anyway. It won’t make a bilnd of difference. The real message is how rare she is. The important aspect is how hard her peers are making it for her to even tell the story. Consider how entitled the people who won’t work with her or announce they are “triggered” simply by having to hear views they don’t… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Wild Man

Heh, funny idea. Just have ZFG about porn, and use it to fuel your sexual expectations.

It takes massive frame, though. Porn is considered a DHV by default, and not without reason.

As an analogy, I have some pretty ‘nerdy’ interests. I actually turn them to my advantage generally because I genuinely believe that they’re cool when I do them. If a girl thinks they’re lame, I’m just like wtf this girl must be stupid or shallow.

Even then it doesn’t always ‘take’ lol.

Frame. Always frame.

Wild Man
Wild Man
6 years ago

@Rollo I have always been fascinated by guru-game, maybe because of the weird sublimation I observed with my mom, whereby she sublimated sexual submission into a deep devotion to “god”. I saw the sexual aspect (gushing) of her devotion pretty much all along (but it wasn’t until recently that I saw that it was also probably a proxy for her sexual submission to my father). This thing (sexual submission to a guru, or a greater power, or an all powerful institution, and the like) is extremely common among women (I think it is the minority that flagrantly show this, but… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
6 years ago

@Forge the Sky I didn’t really think of porn as DHV (in fact I though the opposite but did what I did because I could see it wasn’t going to turn out well for me otherwise, because there really is no way to dial down your libido). Man I got a lot to learn still. I think what happened was I was doing a mix of bluepill behavior mixed with a little bit of redpill behavior here and there because I didn’t know any better (or any worse I mean). I wasn’t too bothered by my marriage break-up so I… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Wild Man:

“That woman is by nature intended to obey is shown by the fact that every woman who is placed in the unnatural position of absolute independence at once attaches herself to some kind of man, by whom she is controlled and governed; this is because she requires a master. If she, is young, the man is a lover; if she is old, a priest.”

Arthur Schopenhauer; On Women.

Wild Man
Wild Man
6 years ago

@ kfg Thanks for the quote. I can see that I am going to have to add Arthur Schopenhauer’s On Women to be reading list. Do you think that a way to express it might be: – a woman’s love and devotion for a man, or for god, is but narcissism basking in it’s own reflection. If so, then it is one thing to use god as the mirror, because after all this is just a nebulous idea of something beyond human comprehension, and so the mind-fuck flows to her, but when a man is used as the mirror, he… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  Wild Man

@Wild Man
“I’m 56 and have decided to deliberately stay out of relationships other than friendships for the last little while because I sense danger due to my lack of knowledge). But I can’t go on like this forever.”

http://myhero.com/hero.asp?hero=L_Zamperini_dnhs_US_2012_ul

Wild man you got your whole darn life ahead of you. Just make sure to keep your male friends along for the ride.
http://www.louiszamperini.net/

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

@Rollo Yes but gays can’t procure us with a new offsprings, so they have no liability to worry about. I wonder how “Mate guarding” works among gays? “Mate guarding” still stands for heterosexual relationships. The Sultans of the Ottoman Empire had harems of hundreds of the best women, yet they had Eunuchs(castrated men) guard them. This is mate guarding at its best. Man indulging in porn is just a way to cope with the failure to capitalize on his SMV. Same holds true with a stereotypical “Cat lady” If that definition was all the MI is about, then we’re perpetuating… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

@ETA; re: Mate Guarding

Don’t assume this is universal. I for example never had such an instinct, not even in a state of Oneitis.

Driver
Driver
6 years ago

Powell – a “man” who had no man in his life raising him is giving advice to young men on the subject matter of what a “man” is supposed to consist of in today’s society. I didn’t go to medical school so can I, now, put on the white coat, start the examinations, write out the prescriptions for meds, etc…? I mean what education, training or experience do you need if that’s all it takes to dispense advice to others on a subject that you’ve had to real training or education in..in the first place. Anyone else have this thought… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

He further theorized that the culture that developed around this trait, moved away from the gradient of the tournament-model vs. pair-bonding model of sexual selection

@WildMan

Do you have any weblinks for this? I’ve never done any psychedelics, but I’ve been hearing a lot about these theories lately from watching Joe Rogan’s podcasts.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“Perhaps if one of your daughters came home in a body bag you might be a little less likely to glorify the status of natural warrior. Indeed, maybe if there were planeloads of flag draped coffins filled with dead girls all of us might be a little more circumspect about being imperialist aggressors.” Comment made directly to me by Paul Elam concerning MRA’s suing to get women signed up for the draft. Yes, maybe sending our daughters off to die, (thanks for referring to my actual daughter too Paul) will teach those horrible women a thing or two! That tells… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

That tells me everything I need to know about MRA’s and their butt hurt “it’s not fair!” attitudes.

It isn’t fair in an egalitarian society because there isn’t any benefit for it. It is discrimination. Period. What the lawsuit also does is highlight the absurdity of egalitarianism. Where is the breaking point where society admits to themselves that men and women are different?

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

Does Paul want us to have a military at all? Or perhaps an all-female only military?
Because no one who actually cares about the men under fire would want a woman covering their backsides and lifting the injured out of the fire to safety instead of a man.
And that’s the best case scenario. Real scenario is, women get injured 8 to 10 times more often than men when they engage in physical activity where they AREN’T in a combat zone lifting over a hundred pounds of kit.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Liz, exactly. I told Paul that I’m sure our enemies will thank us.

I come from a long line of military, and have seen family members come home under flag. It’s insanity putting women in combat just to “be fair”

Andy,

I don’t agree that discrimination is a bad thing.

IliadsTangent
IliadsTangent
6 years ago

Let us avoid the wall of text by summarizing our current dilemmas. Without a clear grasp of the problems, we can’t begin to fathom the solutions. Problem One: biological instinct for most members of both male and female genders is to sacrifice male interests for the good of the women in the event of a conflict, ergo men protecting women in violent attacks instinctually and so forth. This means Female-first policy(call it feminism ,womens sufferage, whatever you like) has an inherent advantage over male-centric policy:it aligns with basic instinct and thus is more accepted socially. Problem two: in a FI… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

my first thought was, ‘she’ll never get funding’, but this ‘feminist’ appeals to the manosphere and she’s at her stretch goal in less than a day.

FWIW

Cassie Jaye did not seek out Milo for the story. Milo approached her.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“I don’t agree that discrimination is a bad thing.”

Exactly. I agree with what you are saying. My point is that at some point the law will have to treat us differently. Because we are fucking different. How far down this equalist hole is the law going to go? If the Supreme Court says that discrimination is warranted in this case then we have to question everything.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

Overweight women are unlikely to lock down Chad, and 4’2″ dudes aren’t going to be mass pulling pussy no matter how much they lift or read.

@IliadsTangent

You need to read @YaReally’s comments. You can find them on the blog roll.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Andy, I misunderstood what you had said, I got it now!

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Cave – the goal of that suit isn’t to put women in harms way, its to force the Fed to admit we aren’t equal. If they won’t draft women, they can’t legally draft men IF they claim we are equal. Kinda smart actually!

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

A better strategy for Paul tho is: “if you have a son and a daughter, why is your son expendable but your daughter is not in the eyes of the government?”

But his reply got you fired up, and that’s a good start.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“Cave – the goal of that suit isn’t to put women in harms way, its to force the Fed to admit we aren’t equal.”

Yeah, I think we have to consider the possibility that Paul Elam isn’t an “equalist” out of personal conviction but is so in a Machiavellian sense in order to progress the conversation.

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