Neofemininity

Left: A child shows off his favorite nightgown. Right: Throughout the weekend make-up is applied, removed and reapplied and wardrobe change is constant.

I’ll admit my reluctance to address anything written by Kevin Powell, but as his most recent CNN pandering to the Feminine Imperative was the Twitter topic du jour in the manosphere this week I thought I’d make a perfunctory stab at it. I’m reluctant to do so because in doing a take-down article I’ll only be preaching to the choir and revisiting many well established topics I’ve covered on The Rational Male for years now.

What convinced me was a conversation I had with Mrs. Tomassi while walking my greyhounds this week. She asked me, “What the hell is wrong with boys these days? The all have no balls. It’s like they want to be girls or something.” We’ve had this discussion before. It usually gets brought up after she’s heard some story about the boys at my daughter’s high school or she sees it first-hand at a football game or some other event.

“Pretty soon, everyone is going to be a woman. Look at Bruce Jenner, “Woman of the Year”?! In the next ten years everyone will be a woman.”

I told her I think ten years might be too long.

When I read male-apologetics like Kevin Powell’s tribute to his own feminine ‘transitioning’ and his efforts at identifying and qualifying to be considered a more ‘perfected man’ in the terms set for him by a feminine-primary social order, it’s not hard to believe that social switch is right around the corner.

A Crisis of Manhood

Masculinity in “crisis” is a hot seller for click-bait articles these days. Women embrace the meme because it offers the tacit prospect of wrangling men into a more definitive control by the Feminine Imperative. Like all popular characterization of conventional masculinity, men have a problem and the cure is to become more like women.

Average men, the ones who make it their sexual strategy to better identify with the feminine, get behind the meme because it offers an easy opportunity to present themselves as the ‘evolved’, not-like-other-guys men they’ve been conditioned to believe women will sexually respond to favorably. Embracing this men-as-problem meme also offers them the opportunity to passively compete intrasexually with the conventionally masculine men then would otherwise never engage.

Before I dig into Powell’s article here I think it’s important to revisit my essay about Vulnerability. Powell’s ego is invested in the ‘strength in weakness’ theme his feminine conditioning has taught him is ennobling and as you read through his pleas for a more feminine-perfected social order he’ll return to it often.

From Vulnerability:

For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.

Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.

Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.

Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.

[…]Men are ridiculous posers. Men are socialized to wear masks to hide what the Feminine Imperative has decided is their true natures (they’re really girls wearing boy masks). Men’s problems extend from their inability to properly emote like women, and once they are raised better (by women and men who comply with the Feminine Imperative) they can cease being “tough” and get along better with women. That’s the real strength that comes from men’s feminized concept of vulnerability – compliance with the Feminine Imperative.

[…]It’s indictment of the definers of what masculinity ought to be that they still characterize modern masculinity (based on the ‘feels’) as being problematic when for generations our feminine-primary social order has conditioned men to associate that masculinity in as feminine-beneficial a context as women would want.

They still rely on an outdated formula which presumes the male experience is inferior, a sham, in comparison to the female experience, and then presumes to know what the male experience really is and offers feminine-primary solutions for it.

It’s important to understand the machinations in which the Feminine Imperative will define masculinity for men. In order to maintain social preeminence the Feminine Imperative must keep men perpetually confused about what masculinity really is. This is precisely why the “crisis” of masculinity will, deliberately, never be solved to the satisfaction of the imperative. To solve the ‘crisis’ would be to deny the Feminine Imperative a method of ever changing, fluid control over men.

Tail Chasing

Thus we get inquisitive articles or mandatory gatherings to discuss “what is manhood?” In a state of feminine social primacy men discussing new definitions of masculinity is always a proposition of men chasing their own tails, but the ambiguity of that question is a calculated one.

Men are encouraged to continually attempt to answer “what is manhood?”, but the touchy-feely equalist appropriate answer is never one defined by the men asking it; the answer is always provided to them and this is always “whatever serves women the best”. Their confused state is a deliberate perpetual one.

As I stated in Vulnerability the narrative of the Feminine Imperative about masculinity is one that’s based falsehoods. If men define masculinity for themselves, and that definition serves men’s exclusive interests it is equated with posing or a front men falsely wear to mask the real masculinity that feminine primacy has ordained as legitimate.

So even when men collectively compare notes and prioritize their needs and their sexual strategy in the context of a legitimate definition of masculinity, the social narrative of feminism and feminine primacy readily disqualifies it as a being a macho bravado worn by men to cover their real vulnerable sensitive feminine-corrected egos provided for them by the imperative.

One of the ways of determining whether the propaganda you’ve dropped from the planes is sinking into the general populace is that your language, your narrative and your public relations material is willfully being professed by the people you hope to conquer. To say Powell is a Vichy Male wouldn’t do his obliviousness to being so credit. Powell is a testament to the degree to which feminine-primary, feminine-correct thought has saturated into men confused about their own masculinity, and the feminine correct definitions of it he’s ready to evangelize.

Neofemininity

Powell’s ego-investment in his feminine-defined masculinity is glaringly apparent.  To attack his belief is to attack his personality, but it’s important to note that his evangelizing reveals his obliviousness to his Blue Pill conditioning. Powell isn’t making a case for a ‘healthier masculinity’; he’s advocating for men adopting a neo-femininity in place of conventional masculinity. Powell is essentially advocating men become more perfected women and renaming that state “masculinity”.

I knew the guys were not comfortable with these mandatory gatherings, so I started each with a simple question:
What is a man?

Sighs of relief and phrases such as “leader,” “protector,” “caretaker,” “responsible,” “head of the house” fell from their mouths. Each session, I told them that they had just described my single mother and most women I’ve encountered in my life. These young men would grow quiet.

Powell kicks things off here with the blank-slate “men and women are functional equals” I described in Hypergamy Knows Best. This is the same “women are just as good at fathering as any man could be” rationale that reinforces men’s superfluousness with women. However, in doing so he sets the stage for defining masculinity in neo-feminine terms.

I grew up as most heterosexual boys did: I played every sport possible. I learned early on the rite-of-passage of seeing girls as sexual objects, as playthings, as anything except my equal. I fought because boys were taught to fight, be rough, antagonistic, to never show weakness, not even to cry, at least not in public. I digested every kind of pop cultural icon one could name, on television, in movies, in books, in my beloved hip-hop culture, who represented the mighty male figure that armies of us were instructed we must become.

This behavior led to catastrophic results for me. I had no clue how to express a balance of emotions for many years: It was either thunderous silence or raw explosions of rage. I did not know how to give love to myself or women and girls, and by the time I got to college, I merely did what other young males on my campus did: I had sex as casually as I slipped on my jeans and sneakers, and often did not give much thought to the woman on the receiving end. And I eventually pushed a girlfriend, post-college, into a bathroom door as we were arguing, the culmination of years of backward and very warped definitions of manhood imprisoned in pain and trauma.

Powell attempts to frame his case for a neo-feminine definition of masculinity in what are now very clichéd, very expected personal vignettes. It follows the Script.

We have the ostensibly ‘tough’ boy who grew up to be so thanks to a comically stereotypically male acculturation that taught him how to adapt and survive in his environment, but all of which stunted his capacity to balance his emotions. Emotional expression and an overemphasis on understanding emotion (in favor of reason) in men is the hallmark of a social narrative that prioritizes the feminine as the correct social context.

The story continues as expected. The kid who had no positive model of masculinity presented to him has an epiphany, renounces his unhealthy masculinity and adopts a non-toxic feminine-defined ‘healthy masculinity’ that prioritizes women under the auspices of “equality”. Most of his corrupted upbringing of course being the fallout from not having his superfluous father around to instruct him. My guess is Mom wasn’t quite the ‘equal’ of being the man he hoped to equate her with earlier.

Just as the feminist movement in America has challenged male domination in every form, a men’s movement is needed now more than ever before. The movement must be inclusive of males of all ages and backgrounds, rooted in peace, love and healthy definitions of manhood that include viewing women and girls as our equals. It should be a movement that is not in opposition to women, not trying to return to the days of “the rugged man,” but one that makes room for every kind of man possible (including men on the LGBTQ spectrum), where we can be vulnerable, emotionally available, truly free.

This is the crux of Powell’s misinformation. The ideal ‘masculinity’ in Powell’s estimate isn’t one of rugged individualism, but rather one that is more feminine-corrected; one in which a believes that society has progressed to a point where his personal vulnerabilities and emotionalism will not only be appreciated, but a source of intersexual attraction. His ideal simply amounts to a common plea for men to identify with women so thoroughly that they answer the question “what is a man?” with “a better woman.”

That Powell subscribes to egalitarian equalism is a given here, but what he needs to truly grasp is that men and women are not, and never have been functional equals. It’s ironic that he should describe his single mother ‘as a man’ and then go on to tell the story of his misspent masculine youth – he makes the case for necessary complentarianism without even realizing it. While I do agree about the necessity of understanding individuals other than ourselves, Powell never makes the connection that it is men upon whom the onus of understanding women always falls. You will never read deep soul searching testimonials like this from women who look to redefine femininity in ways that better accommodate the emotional health of men.

Caricatures of Masculinity

I undertook this post today because of a story I heard on NPR recently. It was about a tribe of Native Americans (I believe in Montana) who were struggling to preserve their indigenous language. The problem was that most of its native speakers were dying out and there were less than six tribe members who still used the language.

During the late 1800s there was a program instituted by the government that made great, often cruel, efforts to assimilate these Indian children into western society. That meant forbidding them from speaking their native tongue and adopting an American social identity. Being young, the kids had little choice and not the same sense of ethnic belonging to really understand why their parents would resist this assimilation.

I think a similar dynamic has been in effect in western culture with regard to masculinity for over sixty years. It’s come full circle now to the point where ‘men’ like Powell only know the caricatured, ridiculous portrayals of conventional masculinity when they need a convenient straw man to blow down. It’s like Indian children seeing the grotesque cartoon parodies of people of their ethnicity in the movies or media; after the laughter and denigration they come to a point of self-loathing where they gladly embrace the new racial identity that’s prepared for them.

The point of Powell’s article was a plea to more thoroughly assimilate young men into a neo-feminine definition of masculinity. He believes that a re-education of boys would help avert more mass shootings by these same young men.  So invested is he in this narrative that the question of whether doubling-down on the re-education in feminine primacy already in place might in fact be the associative cause of these shootings, men’s 4-times higher rate of suicide or PTSD. This isn’t even an afterthought for him.

To Powell the only cure resides with women. To become more like women is masculinity to him. We will denigrate and admonish the overt sexualization of young girls, but when young boys wish to ‘transition’ into being girls themselves we praise them for it, we celebrate it. Feminine primacy consolidates power by replicating itself in men.

The primary reason I went to the effort of writing the Red Pill Parenting series was to help men stave off the total, ethnocidal-like destruction of any semblance of conventional masculinity by men like Powell bent on replacing it with ‘perfected’, male-embodied femininity. The problem isn’t one of boys adopting toxic masculinity, it’s the institutionalized gender-loathing re-education that Powell so desperately endorses. Neofemininity will be the realm of boys and men in tomorrow’s idealism.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Andy
Andy
6 years ago

I wonder, though, if *I* concoct and scheme plans for him to build a strong frame for me to come into, am I still holding the power?

I don’t know. Does it matter at this point? You could just shrink your frame though and hopefully he’ll fill the vacuum. I think most guys instinctively enjoy it.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

By opening up his psyche to trained therapists for the first time, Strauss learned he had quite an assortment of mental and emotional conditions. In short order, he was diagnosed with anxiety syndrome, depressive disorder, two forms of sexual disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Sheesh. Strauss basically let a bunch of witch-sniffers get at him, and the results are fairly predictable. As is the “men who fear women” trope.

HopelessHypergamy
HopelessHypergamy
6 years ago

“I don’t know. Does it matter at this point? You could just shrink your frame though and hopefully he’ll fill the vacuum. I think most guys instinctively enjoy it.” -Andy @Andy. No, at this point, it doesn’t matter. It will be easy for me to shrink down. I was sincere when I said my new level of self-awareness has left me with a huge amount of self-loathing. I clearly make bad choices, and besides picking me, (ha) my husband generally makes good ones. I feel he’s probably a naturally leaning alpha-ish beta, anyway, or I wouldn’t have been attracted to… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

Could a RP man seriously go to a female therapist? I mean he could game her or try to fuck her, but for actual help?

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Hopeless – why are you stressing on this? You either: Want it to work Or you don’t I’m not asking how you feel about it, I’m saying its a rational decision. Make the choice and do whatever it takes to follow through. I call this being responsible, and it often means doing things you don’t feel like doing. So if you decide to make it work? Make it work. Don’t bitch that it makes you unhappy, instead find other things to be happy about. It may be a lot of work, but you’re already hitched so “choosing wisely” isn’t an… Read more »

Fred Flange, substitute furball
Fred Flange, substitute furball
6 years ago

Saw the article but haven’t read the Strauss Truth book, I’ll let you guys read it and tell me all about it. Be sure the book report has the proper margins or points will be deducted off your grade! Keep in mind: if you already have a pile of shit in your head, learning Game will not cure it. You’ll still be a man who has the pile of shit in his head but who also knows Game. You can get laid lots whilst remaining Bonkers in Yonkers head-wise. From the article that sounds where Strauss is these days, but… Read more »

HopelessHypergamy
HopelessHypergamy
6 years ago

@teddj4g I want it to work. I am aware that being a grown up sometimes (frequently) means doing things that are difficult and / or you don’t want to do. I don’t mean to look like I am spinning my wheels. I am just at that weak spot of pain / regret / actualization where I am seeking and receptive to good advice. I have resolve to forget forward. I’m not leaving for a *better match* (ha!) The entire point of this is that, since the problem has always been me, there is no such thing. Every one of my… Read more »

longgone
longgone
6 years ago

“Several commenter have said that I am a waste of breath because…….”

you are a phony troll, scamming on a site where men, normally more discriminating or savvy, would be more concerned about fixing men’s lives, rather than getting involved with your theoretical and awkwardly composed, overly generalized, fake womansplaining. (“I was one of those ultra confident professional women who never sought advice or attention…” yah riiiight! Every office has one…. )

Guys please snap out of it….

Softek,

Good to hear you’re still slaying it….

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Hopeless – Be a better woman. Be better to the men all around you. Stop engaging in self-pity and shame, there are no more useless things on earth than those two things. It’s another form of arrogance and self-absorption I don’t care about your story- we will only bet parts of it here no matter what. You say you want to change, do so – now. Otherwise, what are you doing here? As for “advice” are you really going to tell us that you don’t know what the right thing for you to do is? Fyi, once you get right,… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Women only apologize to feel better about themselves.

I haven’t read anything that makes her sound remorseful.

Hell, she just told tedd that as an adult she has to do things that she doesn’t like or are hard to do.

Like stay with her husband whom she has done nothing but negotiate with herself on her level of attraction for him.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

SJF – Strauss – He was always half-way in the game anyway. He was just so bad with girls that the success he achieved by being with Mystery et all was so mindblowing that he got caught up. But he never really became a better man. I was mixed on the book, The Game, even though he is a fantastic writer as you noted. It’s certainly mandatory reading for any man approaching game. But he also always saw himself as better and apart from those men he wrote about, always judging and keeping his distance as he lapped up the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Frog? Scorpion. Scorpion? Frog. Now you two go off and have a nice little swim, K?

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Re: Neil Strauss Rollo and Fred Flange got it right with their comments. I definitely don’t plan to read his new book. Don’t need to and don’t want to. I have gratitude to Strauss for having kicked off something with The Game way back a long time ago. The MSM will say he’s following the Script. Right. “He of all people should know Game is a toolbox, not a cure.” “Keep in mind: if you already have a pile of shit in your head, learning Game will not cure it. You’ll still be a man who has the pile of… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Re: “Happiness” – When women use this term these days, they mean tingles. Hopeless is still seeking tingles. Fyi, I’m not saying you are worthless or can’t be happy or anything like that, Hopeless. Any person can change and repent for awful things they do. It’s just that women rarely do that. Here’s a quick story for you. After my wall-hitting wife upgraded to a bigger cock when she was 32 (she a dime, homecoming promqueen etc), she had been shitting down my throat for 3 years already. I have too much self-respect to tolerate it and this is what… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Hopeless – self loathing and guilt comes with introspection and the discovery of how badly you messed up in the past. Its a good sign though since it also means you realized your part in those failures. You won’t get much ego support here, as the vast majority of us have suffered our own failures. Best you’re likely to see is “so what have you learned from those failures?” Worst is downright hostility. You already seem to have the answers though, which is why it appears to me you are on the fence. You know the problem, and the fix,… Read more »

HopelessHypergamy
HopelessHypergamy
6 years ago

Man, tough audience. I am not certain how to show remorse in this format. How about, I’m sorry. I’m agonized. I’m sleepless, stressed out, questioning, crying and severely torn up / ruined / destroyed. HYPER EMOTIONAL / HYPER RATIONAL and heightened with everything. Unplugged. I wouldn’t write here (of all the places to go) if I wasn’t filled with genuine remorse. Also, I *have* gone back and apologized. That is how I came to bear my understanding to ex No.4 and find out he forgave me, and would’ve taken me back to rebuild our family. He even came here to… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Hopeless – if you’re legit and arent just having some internet fun, know that I’m rooting for you. I honestly don’t have much hope, but that’s a reflection on my faith in people generally and not a statement of your resolve. I’ll say this: if I knew you and the hubby personally AND he expressed to me some clue he wanted to change things, I’d show him the info and let him do what he wants with it. Even in person I would not council you on your marriage, because I only know my side of the equation. Me telling… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Rollo bats it out of the part again:
The horrible cad saved by the healing power of Twu Wuv, cured by the feminine’s medicine he should’ve seen all along, is an anachronism.

Just a tiny detail that I FIFY, Rollo.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Sorry I overlapped there ScribblerG. @2:03, 2:04. Great stuff. It is patently obvious that Strauss is pandering for money. And Rollo rightly points out The Script narrative is bullshit. As if Strauss has a completion in life now. I’ve been there and done that and it’s only a beginning for him. And he looks tired as hell. The Game was what launched a thousand thoughts and a bunch of self improvement in myself. But then again, I didn’t start off very fucked up at all. And before it comes up. I am not advocating nor trying to defend my ego… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Hopeless: I’m agonized. I’m sleepless, stressed out, questioning, crying and severely torn up / ruined / destroyed. HYPER EMOTIONAL / HYPER RATIONAL and heightened with everything. In other words, you are feeling right now the way far too many married men feel every day. Every night. Every weekend. For months, and then for years, maybe even decades. You feel right now the way men all too often live their adult lives. Their entire adult lives. Only they don’t show it to anyone else, because that’s what men do, even men dying in hospice can still be blue pill right to… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Feminine primacy asserts itself by simultaneously denigrating and superficially usurping the essence of masculinity. Our current president was “raised” by his mother and maternal grandparents. His biological father abandoned him. In some respects, his formative years are similar to Powell’s. His elections were no doubt (to an extent) manifestations of the societal acceptance and embracement of feminine primacy. Most likely, Hillary Clinton will be elected our next president to the further demise of masculinity. Muslim extremists will continue to plot the destruction of western culture and wage war. They detest western ideology as westerners are considered infidels. Westerners are in… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

but my belief is that such change must come from the top down, and that means hubby has to get his shit together on his own for long lasting results. @Hopeless IMO like I said with shrinking frame, I think you might be able to manage it from your side. Obviously it’s not ideal, but your husband will make decisions with the whole family in mind. Sounds like you ended up pretty lucky. Other guys seem to advocate Rollo’s stuff. I personally wouldn’t suggest showing him this site. Not right away at least. Shrink your frame, see what happens. If… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Andy – I’ve seen the shrinking frame thing suggested elsewhere. I imagine it can work, but only if the guy steps up to fill the void. In the past I wouldn’t have, because my frame of reference back then never showed me I should. I’d say its worth a try, but theres a chance she would come to resent having to make herself “less” so he could be “more”. The easiest solution is to start the relationship with that dynamic. Its difficult to change after the fact. And as much as I agree with Rollo, I don’t live by his… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

I haven’t seen it, but (spoilers alert) it’s about a group of men who crash deep in the Alaskan wilds and find themselves in a hopeless quest for safety as they are pursued by a pack of wolves.

terrible movie, the men act like women, all talk. In reality, men obtain or create weapons and tools, and eat roasted wolf. Women get eaten by the big bad wolf, or saved, but Hollywood will have the timid woodsman being saved the martial arts of Little Red Riding Hood.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

I’d say its worth a try, but theres a chance she would come to resent having to make herself “less” so he could be “more”. It would be ideal coming from the man’s side. Still though. If she shows him red pill stuff then she’s the one who initiated his “alpha transformation” or whatever. I think that is a greater risk because she might view it as an act instead of a natural progression. Or he might be afraid that she’ll see it as an act. OR he’s so blue pill that it all blows up in her face and… Read more »

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

@Rollo First of all, every society have scripts prepared by the collective wisdom for new generations. Some examples are: Religious scripts/beliefs, various political ideologies, nationalism, capitalism etc. Nothing wrong with them, as not everyone is ready to be/become self-aware of his place in his society. In regards to intra-gender relationships scripts: Back in the days there used to be a Script for both genders. But the western citizen has given up on keeping women responsible(aka female burden of performance) for their side of the script, and has long forgotten what the Man’s script actually is. This scripts fueled the fantasies… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Hopeless,
“”Every one of my husband’s had flaws(they had no tingles), but every one of them was a good match we could have worked through if I had been willing to do any work at all(I just couldn’t see myself keeping on fucking them). The point is(I wanted tinglemen), I wasn’t willing to before. New always seemed better(I can’t help it being a Tingle seeking slut).

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

He’s husband number 5…he’s blue pill as fuck.

Thirsty as fuck at the very least.

Her hypergamy is kicking in for a reason.

“I know I AM damaged goods, so why doesn’t he?” -hypergamy

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Hopeless:
“”I’m agonized. I’m sleepless, stressed out, questioning, crying and severely torn up / ruined / destroyed. HYPER EMOTIONAL / HYPER RATIONAL and heightened with everything.””

Damn menopause, I wanted to get married for the 11th time.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago
SD
SD
6 years ago

@ETA Consumerism is one way to put it. Personally, based on the views of my plates its a problem of one-sided indoctrination. Whatever women say in the public sphere, most don’t have any illusions about the mating game-and I mean zero. Regardless of what their hamsters spout, women know the score good or bad. Females take the best deal they can get , and if that leaves male lives destitute….c’est la vie. Stuff happens, get over it, on to the next one. Women -at least the young ones I’ve interacted with-have no romantic illusions. They’re in it for the thrills… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

And it’s CaveClown for the win – “I know I AM damaged goods, so why doesn’t he?” -hypergamy.

Holy fucking shit, how true is that?

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Hopeless – First thing, all your ex-husbands get to hate-fuck you just once. And admit it, you’ve been waiting your whole life for one of them to dare to put you in line. Certainly hubby number 5 gets to. Tell him to treat you like the dirty slut you are, that you love/hate yourself for being. Tell him how dirty you feel for loving cock so much. Just sayin’…You could turn this into fun if you wanted to, but you don’t. Instead you wreck lives and families. You talk about not being able to imagine fucking men you MARRY –… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

Why? What do you get out of all this?

Multiple cocks, multiple providers. The really difficult question is why she shouldn’t “acquire” more of them as long as she can?

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“It’s like the wolf complaining about indigestion of the sheep he just ate to other sheep milling about who were friends with the sheep you just ate.”

And it’s Scribbler for the win.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Emily and Hopeless should appear on the Jerry Springer Show, so we all get a laugh.
Jerry jerry

Pa,
Is Jerry still on TV? I cancelled cable 16 years ago .

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@LH – The point is to get her to realize it – she’s still thinking that this “is happening to her” at some level. She’s the victim of it instead of the cause of it all. We know what she’s doing. She’s likely in a corner now. If she does this a 5th time, perhaps there will be real consequences from her family or others in her life. Perhaps the part of her that does care about people sees all the destruction and she can’t avoid seeing her hand in it anymore. But still she instead feels a victim of… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Keyser – That she doesn’t realize we are identifying with her husbands rather than her is solipsism in action. She doesn’t understand that if she was on fire, many of us here wouldn’t piss on her to put it out, let alone give a flying fuck about how bad she feels about being such an epic cunt.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

The man’s Script is that of Prince Charmin.

All too often quite true. Please don’t squeeze the Charmin…

lh
lh
6 years ago

@scribbler: But you are arguing on moral grounds only. She probably had good experience with doing what she did. It worked for her so far, otherwise she would have stopped earlier. I guess she is getting old and has to consider increasing risks. She knows (if she is real?) it won’t go on forever and she’s wondering if this is the moment to stop and how to do it emotionally. My point is: under todays circumstances of no moral limits from society, with financial benefits from divorcing and also diversification in men as fathers, it’s not irrational for her to… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@LH – You are being quite obtuse. Do you know how rare 5 marriages is? She’s not the archetype, she’s a dangerous, low frequency land-mine for men. And I don’t know what you mean by “using women”? What does that even mean? I’m the first person to support sluttery, I just don’t think getting married is a great move for someone who digs slutting it up. What does being an irresponsible asshole to do with anything? I’m not here to explain what some notional male might or might not do. I’m speaking to a woman who has gotten married 5… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

What you could do, @hopeless, is telling Nr.5 you have sometimes phantasies about him fucking other women and it makes you super-horny.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

You are merely an alpha agent of righteous karma.

I’ll say. I can imagine the desperation.

“Dependapottomai”

Lol

First thing, all your ex-husbands get to hate-fuck you just once.

Haha, I’d say there’s probably a 90% chance she’s fucked #4 since being married to #5. (5 marriages under 40!?!) I haven’t seen a woman be able to resist an ex that escalated. Alpha or not. It doesn’t count in their minds.

lh
lh
6 years ago

@scribbler: 5 marriages is surely extreme. But I know several women with almost as aggressive strategies and pursuit. Some even talk to me openly about it because of ZFG. I think what is holding the others back is only risk-avoidance and lack of imagination. Women aren’t psychopaths, but their solipsism let’s them act very much like it. They can’t sit down and a make plan of how to ruthlessly pursue some sexual strategy like a male psychopath would do. But they got their feelz guiding them, slowly just one bit off the social norm at a time. And as long… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Does anyone else ever look around at the world and get the feeling they are polishing the brass on the Titanic?

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Ha!!!!

The Script. Picture is hilarious and very appropriate. So true.

Ultimately those who end up following the script were conscripted by it in the beginning and are nothing more than ass huggers from the start.

AR
AR
6 years ago

Heartiste doesn’t see the full picture in his last post:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/10/26/one-of-the-most-powerful-female-attraction-triggers/

Attraction is but a stepping stone in having any relationship (short or long) begin. What really sets it in place and turns the tables in your favor will ALWAYS be her level of genuine desire. BUT attraction doesn’t influence genuine desire as deeply as AROUSAL. A woman is most definitely aroused by muscles, looks, and facial symmetry.

I mean, c’mon! There’s so many studies out there that prove this (and some that Rollo himself has posted) but it always seems to fly over Heartiste’s head.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Does anyone else ever look around at the world and get the feeling they are polishing the brass on the Titanic?

No. But I do sense most men are polishing their knobs on the matron of dishonor.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Diff between attraction and arousal is?

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

“The script” is followed by those who fail to respect the truth. All is fair in love and war. Beware of sentimental alliances where consciousness of good deeds is the only compensation for nobel sacrifices.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Cave Clown:

Attraction: She looks at you.
Arousal: She fucks you.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Ahh..

I have an arousal problem than.

I turn heads, I don’t open legs.

Flirt doesn’t equal fuck.

Vitriol
Vitriol
6 years ago

@Not Born This Morning ” “The script” is followed by those who fail to respect the truth. All is fair in love and war. Beware of sentimental alliances where consciousness of good deeds is the only compensation for nobel sacrifices.” It’s pretty scary to think about how deeply this goes, but I remember watching this video for this first time all the way through in a long time a couple of weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM8bTdBs-cw “For democracy,any man would give his only begotten son.” So in other words, your own father would be expected to send you to get a 7.62mm… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  Vitriol

@Rollo Tommasi http://www.pesi.com/ECommerce/ItemDetails.aspx?ResourceCode=RNV045995 All of this was me before I came here. “but if there’s one thing women outright despise, one thing men foolishly believe women should be able to appreciate, it’s a man willing to compromise the beliefs he’s established his reputation and integrity upon in order to facilitate her feminine reality. That’s the definition of a sell-out.” In that case I’ve sold out as a blue pill beta. “You will never read a serious introspective of men who apply Game and Red Pill awareness to their own benefit. You will never read about how men have saved their… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

Next time just say “no”. Easier for me to respect that than the piss poor excuse for a response you dribbled out.

And for fuck’s sake, just type “shit”. You remind me of people that say “The N-word”. I’ll let Louis CK sum up my issue with those types:

leopard
leopard
6 years ago

Thank you to IAS, LH, Andy and everyone else who read my original post and had something pointed/practical/constructive to say. scribbler: with respect, I don’t understand much of what you post. May be you know what you are talking about but I am just a simple son of a bitch who needs help and empathy first. Intellectual and moral assessments, not to speak of smug condescension, are distant second needs. PS: I still can’t understand how my second post can be interpreted to be some glorification of celibacy or priests, let alone a post that merits a response post on… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

@Leopard: It can be a little rough here at times. But in principle you found the right place for your situation. Not long ago we had another commenter who finally got rid of his virginity after lots of reading here and improving himself. Getting out of a situation like yours is probably not easy, but it is doable. I’d recommend reading all of Rollo’s work for a good understanding of how things work first. Then it will probably take a lot of working on yourself to overcome the lack of experience and development. Let the commenters here realize you are… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“scribbler: with respect, I don’t understand much of what you post.” Hell, most of the time scribblerg doesn’t know what he’s talking about either… lol In all seriousness, scribblerg is a little rough around the edges…but very insightful. If you harden yourself up by taking on even a fraction of the affectless ZFG attitude that glenn has, you’ll do yourself a lot of good, leopard. Keep in mind that tough love and empathy go together here like apple pie and bald eagles and shit. (that’s how solipsistic I am, I use American references with someone I am quite sure is… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

Cave – ROFL. The US is a former CC rider fast approaching the wall. We used to be HB9, but we are quickly approaching a desperate HB5 status based on wear and tear alone.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“Cave – ROFL. The US is a former CC rider fast approaching the wall. We used to be HB9, but we are quickly approaching a desperate HB5 status based on wear and tear alone.”

Like emily in 15 years…

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@leopard fwiw, you don’t strike me as a troll. As to your original post, I’d mostly just say that you’re at a stage of understanding where you can’t trust most of your thoughts and instincts. At 40 with no female contact, you’ve missed out on a broad swath of human experience that could inform you, and that people kinda subconsciously expect you to have. In the sexual market, you’re supposed to ‘just get it.’ And you don’t, yet. That’s not fatalistic. If you want to work hard at this, you can really turn things around in just a few years,… Read more »

cervantesscthree
6 years ago

A brief article about a British musician who’s trying to find why suicide amongst men is so high. The guy means well, but saying the issue is becasue men feel like they can’t be more open about their feelings is misplaced: http://www.buzzfeed.com/husseinkesvani/professor-green-suicide-film

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago

http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1LZ5
Interesting

lh
lh
6 years ago

From rugby’s link:

Finally, somewhat more people these days (10 to 15 percent) report sex with a friend or casual date/pick-up, but they do not report more sexual partners or more frequent sex overall. This suggests there may be a modest shift toward casual sex, but it’s a tendency toward replacing some regular partners with more casual partners—not adding more partners.

So what changed essentially is less commitment compared to 20 years ago. Seems strange men seem to be less satisfied with that change.

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

@Rollo, I wanted to write something about what men should do to flip the script, but first I got a question for you.. Do you ever intend to write about Masculine Imperative, as something (quasi)independent topic from FI and hypergamy, as the next step of RP truth. Having yourself as point of origin is a great example of it. But I ask that because, even when you talk about Red Pill truth, you use it with Hypergarmy/FI as point of reference. It seems like all your articles gravitate around this concept, which in itself seems like entering the FI frame.… Read more »

lh
lh
6 years ago

Rollo linked on Twitter to funding for an upcoming MRA movie: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cassiejaye/the-red-pill-a-documentary-film?ref=nav_search While I agree it needs more attention for MRA issues, I’m worried about the title (Rollo expressed it too on Twitter). The author talked about the title in a recent AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3pxrrr/i_am_cassie_jaye_the_director_of_the/? And those answers didn’t make me less worried at all. She cannot or doesn’t want to understand the issue it seems. Of course “The Red Pill” is a great name who may sell and that might be her only reason to use it. But if this movie get’s any more attention the manosphere may have lost… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

ETA: If you split a coin you do not end up with a front of a coin and a back of a coin – you end up with two coins, each with a front and back.

JD is not incorrect, but how men behave within groups of other men has been shaped by the FI.

Men hold the perimeter.

Why? What’s inside the perimeter?

lh
lh
6 years ago

Very good ideas, ETA, I agree. We should think about a Masculine Imperative.

[And I think this was also the direction of insanity’s critique towards Rollo. She took issue in how whiny the accusations towards the FI can sound. The FI needs to be uncovered and pushed back, no doubt. But I also think it would be best to do it by developing a very male view on things with the male needs all deeply ingrained.]

lh
lh
6 years ago

Yes Rollo. But nobody says: “Sexslaves? Great idea, I want that.” Why?

lh
lh
6 years ago

That’s just an example. What I would like to get an idea of is how a world would look like tilted as far towards an MI as it is now tilted towards the FI?

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@lh: Because women are the primary victims of war.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@lh, part deux: Ask the Etruscan women.

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

@kfg

yet, we’re focusing mostly on one side of that coin, and almost forgetting there is another side to it!

lh
lh
6 years ago

An alpha-player of today is probably closer than ever to fulfilling “unlimited access to unlimited sexuality”. Even more than in old patriarchal societies. The issue seems to be distribution?

What might be lacking is “no liability for that sexuality”. But even there the old patriarchal orders gave the man even more responsibility.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

RE: TRP Movie

It’s hard to trust a feminist woman to make a movie about this. I feel like she’ll let the guys make their points. Pretend that the points are valid throughout the middle of the movie. And then at the end frame them as damaged individuals with unfortunate circumstances but without any real base.

lh
lh
6 years ago

But if the term TRP will get useless, you will run as “PUA” probably which is far from what it is.

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

@Rollo I understand that if you boil it down the MI is about maximum availability and minimum liability. I also understand that Hypergamy rules. But focusing on it just teaches men to adapt just for survival, not to thrive. MI can be strengthened by teaching men to find new ways to create social norms/conventions that strengthen the MI for men, and have women enter their frame by default for them, so that when boys grow up they have a masculine frame to adopt. Men should find ways to reenact the burden of performance for women. They could be new ones… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“It’s hard to trust a feminist woman to make a movie about this. I feel like she’ll let the guys make their points. Pretend that the points are valid throughout the middle of the movie. And then at the end frame them as damaged individuals with unfortunate circumstances but without any real base.” I argued a point similar to this on another site, and it didn’t go over well. Feminist or not, it will get filtered through a female lens. I just don’t see how it’s possible that this could get made and not have a “follow the script” spin… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

I just don’t see how it’s possible that this could get made and not have a “follow the script” spin in it.

I read her reddit AMA. It sounds like she might actually “get it.” Maybe she’ll do another documentary on PUA, Rollo etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3pxrrr/i_am_cassie_jaye_the_director_of_the/

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Well, here’s to hoping it goes well and communicates the right message, but I disagree with Paul Elam in so many different things, so I’m not excited by the fact that MRA’s are a big part of this thing.

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

To me the thing is, what we had before was a balance. Of course women felt oppressed, but how many men truly had it great? Back then most guys worked a hard manual job, and in return came home to a kept house and a hot meal. Sure, his wife may have been bored out of her mind, but hubby wasn’t living the high life working the assembly line either. But average guys weren’t what women noticed. It was the few men working prestigious careers that women saw and decided they wanted it. Never mind the vast majority of men… Read more »

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

Masculinity today in the US has three main Pillars: MRM, MGTOW, and Manosphere/PUA. The fact there are 3 instead of 1, is proof that masculinity and the MI is in crisis, unlike FI that has all women united. Yet, I think each group can do things that other groups can’t. PUAs are the hands on guys, they give man short term relief, but their effort to help men be men without a legal system and social construct already established,looks more like “The Myth of Sisyphus” an never ending struggle. Both PUA and the Manosphere in general, can do the dirty… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

MRAs aren’t a big part of it, they are the ONLY part of it.

I honestly don’t follow these guys at all. Is this something we should be worried about?

lh
lh
6 years ago

She’ll be lucky to have a career after this movie.

It depends whether she fucks up or satisfies at least some audience. There are quite a few women selling to MGTOW or Anti-Feminists just by playing “the rare sane women”. There is an audience for this and with kickstarter and the like you can fund things if you got supporters. Sarkeesian did the same thing just for the other side.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“@CaveClown, MRAs aren’t a big part of it, they are the ONLY part of it.” Well…fuck. I get where MRA’s are coming from, especially since I am going through a divorce. The laws really are fucked up, especially case law with family courts. But, MRA’s don’t go about it the right way at all in my book. Like them suing to get women registered for the draft? WTF is that???? We shouldn’t be sending our daughters to war. That is the realm of men. That is our burden to carry. Sucks, but there it is. They say they are on… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Good stuff rollo, thanks for the explanation.

Makes me wonder why this gal picked MRAs?

If it was because they are the most visible, or the least controversial, or the one more likely to garner her some attention?

Or simply because she, as a feminist and a woman, could relate to them and their quest for an egalitarian society?

teddj4g
teddj4g
6 years ago

My concern is that the MRM in general has no problem throwing the rest of the ‘sphere under the bus in the hopes of getting their message out. I agree family law sucks, but the answer isn’t more of the same process. The entire thing should be chucked and rebuilt. Anyone working INSIDE the system is nothing more than a politician. I don’t put any faith in politicians, so I have very little for the MRM. IMO the best outcome is if the movie doesn’t turn into a PR clusterfuck. From there my guess is it gets much worse.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

@Rollo

I understand now. 🙂 The filmmaker is only half-way down the rabbit hole. If it does go mainstream at least that is a start.

Blaximus
6 years ago

The burden of performance is something men ( in a perfect world ) cannot escape. It’s how things get done and society advances. Any movement that embraces any aspect of equalism only serves to exacerbate the problems in ” gender relations “. ” The reason feminism hates the Red Pill – in its concrete sense – is because it more accurately predicts human behavior than feminism and equalism have ever been capable of. The MRM is similarly frustrated by this fact.” Yes, yes and more yes. It’s a red herring to focus on any other aspect other than the natural… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago
kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Makes me wonder why this gal picked MRAs?”

AVfM has been completely subsumed into the women’s movement. The forums are whatever voice Banhammer Suze allows and Paul Elam is Judgy’s bitch.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Rollo –

“The masculine imperative – Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality with no liability for that sexuality.”

I agree.

How would you describe the feminine imperative in comparable short hand…distilled to its essential elements?

Fred Flange, not responsible
Fred Flange, not responsible
6 years ago

From what I gather the director started a trash-men piece but got caught up in the nuances. Which is where SJW’s started screaming. To the point where a feminist academic, who had been set to appear, backed out claiming to now feel :”unsafe.” As in: she would be asked critical questions she did not want to answer and up with which she would not put. A small part of me roots for this to get out there if only because SJW’s want it suppressed, and their discomfiture amuses me. Just as 1980’s Churchians would go apeshit whenever the Dead Kennedys… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

@Vitriol

“For democracy, any man would give his only begotten son.”

How can pure democracy be nothing more than anarchy?

What is democratic about imposing or mandating democracy?

The least powerful from of leadership is decentralized command where every decision must be debated and agreed upon by a process founded upon disagreement. The more shared and decentralized the power of leadership becomes, the more inefficient and ineffective it becomes.

ETA
ETA
6 years ago

@kfg I missed part of your comment “Men hold the perimeter. Why? What’s inside the perimeter?” It’s femininity. Man create an oasis for femininity to flourish. The problem is that America’s perimeter has been expanded so much through its corporations and army, that femininity has gotten comfortable and reaching a high level of toxicity. @lh I just donated $25. —————— “What MRAs forget or just don’t know, is that for this approach to work people first have to care about the group in question and once they do you can then tap into that.” One big flaw of masculinity is… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Benevolent dictatorship is the best form of government in my opinion.

Singapore comes to mind.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

MRMs are only mirroring feminist strategy. They assume the same strategies will work for men as has for women…and they are wrong… they are literally playing into the hand of the FI.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@rugby11ljh on October 27, 2015 at 1:11 am Yet this scene is amazing I had the same experience the other day walking in the woods. I ran into a bear on the trail, and instead of using some nearby stuff to defend myself, I sat down on the trail, pulled out my wallet, stared lovingly at a photo of my ONEITS, had a flashback, then it dawned on me that maybe I should try hand-to-paw fighting aided by some stuff I had in my pocket. However the bear had eaten me by that point and now bearshit is writing this… Read more »

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