Neofemininity

Left: A child shows off his favorite nightgown. Right: Throughout the weekend make-up is applied, removed and reapplied and wardrobe change is constant.

I’ll admit my reluctance to address anything written by Kevin Powell, but as his most recent CNN pandering to the Feminine Imperative was the Twitter topic du jour in the manosphere this week I thought I’d make a perfunctory stab at it. I’m reluctant to do so because in doing a take-down article I’ll only be preaching to the choir and revisiting many well established topics I’ve covered on The Rational Male for years now.

What convinced me was a conversation I had with Mrs. Tomassi while walking my greyhounds this week. She asked me, “What the hell is wrong with boys these days? The all have no balls. It’s like they want to be girls or something.” We’ve had this discussion before. It usually gets brought up after she’s heard some story about the boys at my daughter’s high school or she sees it first-hand at a football game or some other event.

“Pretty soon, everyone is going to be a woman. Look at Bruce Jenner, “Woman of the Year”?! In the next ten years everyone will be a woman.”

I told her I think ten years might be too long.

When I read male-apologetics like Kevin Powell’s tribute to his own feminine ‘transitioning’ and his efforts at identifying and qualifying to be considered a more ‘perfected man’ in the terms set for him by a feminine-primary social order, it’s not hard to believe that social switch is right around the corner.

A Crisis of Manhood

Masculinity in “crisis” is a hot seller for click-bait articles these days. Women embrace the meme because it offers the tacit prospect of wrangling men into a more definitive control by the Feminine Imperative. Like all popular characterization of conventional masculinity, men have a problem and the cure is to become more like women.

Average men, the ones who make it their sexual strategy to better identify with the feminine, get behind the meme because it offers an easy opportunity to present themselves as the ‘evolved’, not-like-other-guys men they’ve been conditioned to believe women will sexually respond to favorably. Embracing this men-as-problem meme also offers them the opportunity to passively compete intrasexually with the conventionally masculine men then would otherwise never engage.

Before I dig into Powell’s article here I think it’s important to revisit my essay about Vulnerability. Powell’s ego is invested in the ‘strength in weakness’ theme his feminine conditioning has taught him is ennobling and as you read through his pleas for a more feminine-perfected social order he’ll return to it often.

From Vulnerability:

For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.

Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.

Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.

Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.

[…]Men are ridiculous posers. Men are socialized to wear masks to hide what the Feminine Imperative has decided is their true natures (they’re really girls wearing boy masks). Men’s problems extend from their inability to properly emote like women, and once they are raised better (by women and men who comply with the Feminine Imperative) they can cease being “tough” and get along better with women. That’s the real strength that comes from men’s feminized concept of vulnerability – compliance with the Feminine Imperative.

[…]It’s indictment of the definers of what masculinity ought to be that they still characterize modern masculinity (based on the ‘feels’) as being problematic when for generations our feminine-primary social order has conditioned men to associate that masculinity in as feminine-beneficial a context as women would want.

They still rely on an outdated formula which presumes the male experience is inferior, a sham, in comparison to the female experience, and then presumes to know what the male experience really is and offers feminine-primary solutions for it.

It’s important to understand the machinations in which the Feminine Imperative will define masculinity for men. In order to maintain social preeminence the Feminine Imperative must keep men perpetually confused about what masculinity really is. This is precisely why the “crisis” of masculinity will, deliberately, never be solved to the satisfaction of the imperative. To solve the ‘crisis’ would be to deny the Feminine Imperative a method of ever changing, fluid control over men.

Tail Chasing

Thus we get inquisitive articles or mandatory gatherings to discuss “what is manhood?” In a state of feminine social primacy men discussing new definitions of masculinity is always a proposition of men chasing their own tails, but the ambiguity of that question is a calculated one.

Men are encouraged to continually attempt to answer “what is manhood?”, but the touchy-feely equalist appropriate answer is never one defined by the men asking it; the answer is always provided to them and this is always “whatever serves women the best”. Their confused state is a deliberate perpetual one.

As I stated in Vulnerability the narrative of the Feminine Imperative about masculinity is one that’s based falsehoods. If men define masculinity for themselves, and that definition serves men’s exclusive interests it is equated with posing or a front men falsely wear to mask the real masculinity that feminine primacy has ordained as legitimate.

So even when men collectively compare notes and prioritize their needs and their sexual strategy in the context of a legitimate definition of masculinity, the social narrative of feminism and feminine primacy readily disqualifies it as a being a macho bravado worn by men to cover their real vulnerable sensitive feminine-corrected egos provided for them by the imperative.

One of the ways of determining whether the propaganda you’ve dropped from the planes is sinking into the general populace is that your language, your narrative and your public relations material is willfully being professed by the people you hope to conquer. To say Powell is a Vichy Male wouldn’t do his obliviousness to being so credit. Powell is a testament to the degree to which feminine-primary, feminine-correct thought has saturated into men confused about their own masculinity, and the feminine correct definitions of it he’s ready to evangelize.

Neofemininity

Powell’s ego-investment in his feminine-defined masculinity is glaringly apparent.  To attack his belief is to attack his personality, but it’s important to note that his evangelizing reveals his obliviousness to his Blue Pill conditioning. Powell isn’t making a case for a ‘healthier masculinity’; he’s advocating for men adopting a neo-femininity in place of conventional masculinity. Powell is essentially advocating men become more perfected women and renaming that state “masculinity”.

I knew the guys were not comfortable with these mandatory gatherings, so I started each with a simple question:
What is a man?

Sighs of relief and phrases such as “leader,” “protector,” “caretaker,” “responsible,” “head of the house” fell from their mouths. Each session, I told them that they had just described my single mother and most women I’ve encountered in my life. These young men would grow quiet.

Powell kicks things off here with the blank-slate “men and women are functional equals” I described in Hypergamy Knows Best. This is the same “women are just as good at fathering as any man could be” rationale that reinforces men’s superfluousness with women. However, in doing so he sets the stage for defining masculinity in neo-feminine terms.

I grew up as most heterosexual boys did: I played every sport possible. I learned early on the rite-of-passage of seeing girls as sexual objects, as playthings, as anything except my equal. I fought because boys were taught to fight, be rough, antagonistic, to never show weakness, not even to cry, at least not in public. I digested every kind of pop cultural icon one could name, on television, in movies, in books, in my beloved hip-hop culture, who represented the mighty male figure that armies of us were instructed we must become.

This behavior led to catastrophic results for me. I had no clue how to express a balance of emotions for many years: It was either thunderous silence or raw explosions of rage. I did not know how to give love to myself or women and girls, and by the time I got to college, I merely did what other young males on my campus did: I had sex as casually as I slipped on my jeans and sneakers, and often did not give much thought to the woman on the receiving end. And I eventually pushed a girlfriend, post-college, into a bathroom door as we were arguing, the culmination of years of backward and very warped definitions of manhood imprisoned in pain and trauma.

Powell attempts to frame his case for a neo-feminine definition of masculinity in what are now very clichéd, very expected personal vignettes. It follows the Script.

We have the ostensibly ‘tough’ boy who grew up to be so thanks to a comically stereotypically male acculturation that taught him how to adapt and survive in his environment, but all of which stunted his capacity to balance his emotions. Emotional expression and an overemphasis on understanding emotion (in favor of reason) in men is the hallmark of a social narrative that prioritizes the feminine as the correct social context.

The story continues as expected. The kid who had no positive model of masculinity presented to him has an epiphany, renounces his unhealthy masculinity and adopts a non-toxic feminine-defined ‘healthy masculinity’ that prioritizes women under the auspices of “equality”. Most of his corrupted upbringing of course being the fallout from not having his superfluous father around to instruct him. My guess is Mom wasn’t quite the ‘equal’ of being the man he hoped to equate her with earlier.

Just as the feminist movement in America has challenged male domination in every form, a men’s movement is needed now more than ever before. The movement must be inclusive of males of all ages and backgrounds, rooted in peace, love and healthy definitions of manhood that include viewing women and girls as our equals. It should be a movement that is not in opposition to women, not trying to return to the days of “the rugged man,” but one that makes room for every kind of man possible (including men on the LGBTQ spectrum), where we can be vulnerable, emotionally available, truly free.

This is the crux of Powell’s misinformation. The ideal ‘masculinity’ in Powell’s estimate isn’t one of rugged individualism, but rather one that is more feminine-corrected; one in which a believes that society has progressed to a point where his personal vulnerabilities and emotionalism will not only be appreciated, but a source of intersexual attraction. His ideal simply amounts to a common plea for men to identify with women so thoroughly that they answer the question “what is a man?” with “a better woman.”

That Powell subscribes to egalitarian equalism is a given here, but what he needs to truly grasp is that men and women are not, and never have been functional equals. It’s ironic that he should describe his single mother ‘as a man’ and then go on to tell the story of his misspent masculine youth – he makes the case for necessary complentarianism without even realizing it. While I do agree about the necessity of understanding individuals other than ourselves, Powell never makes the connection that it is men upon whom the onus of understanding women always falls. You will never read deep soul searching testimonials like this from women who look to redefine femininity in ways that better accommodate the emotional health of men.

Caricatures of Masculinity

I undertook this post today because of a story I heard on NPR recently. It was about a tribe of Native Americans (I believe in Montana) who were struggling to preserve their indigenous language. The problem was that most of its native speakers were dying out and there were less than six tribe members who still used the language.

During the late 1800s there was a program instituted by the government that made great, often cruel, efforts to assimilate these Indian children into western society. That meant forbidding them from speaking their native tongue and adopting an American social identity. Being young, the kids had little choice and not the same sense of ethnic belonging to really understand why their parents would resist this assimilation.

I think a similar dynamic has been in effect in western culture with regard to masculinity for over sixty years. It’s come full circle now to the point where ‘men’ like Powell only know the caricatured, ridiculous portrayals of conventional masculinity when they need a convenient straw man to blow down. It’s like Indian children seeing the grotesque cartoon parodies of people of their ethnicity in the movies or media; after the laughter and denigration they come to a point of self-loathing where they gladly embrace the new racial identity that’s prepared for them.

The point of Powell’s article was a plea to more thoroughly assimilate young men into a neo-feminine definition of masculinity. He believes that a re-education of boys would help avert more mass shootings by these same young men.  So invested is he in this narrative that the question of whether doubling-down on the re-education in feminine primacy already in place might in fact be the associative cause of these shootings, men’s 4-times higher rate of suicide or PTSD. This isn’t even an afterthought for him.

To Powell the only cure resides with women. To become more like women is masculinity to him. We will denigrate and admonish the overt sexualization of young girls, but when young boys wish to ‘transition’ into being girls themselves we praise them for it, we celebrate it. Feminine primacy consolidates power by replicating itself in men.

The primary reason I went to the effort of writing the Red Pill Parenting series was to help men stave off the total, ethnocidal-like destruction of any semblance of conventional masculinity by men like Powell bent on replacing it with ‘perfected’, male-embodied femininity. The problem isn’t one of boys adopting toxic masculinity, it’s the institutionalized gender-loathing re-education that Powell so desperately endorses. Neofemininity will be the realm of boys and men in tomorrow’s idealism.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

569 comments on “Neofemininity

  1. @HopelessHypergamy

    Assuming troll:

    Fuck outta here. No chick I’ve ever met would actually take that level of responsibility without eventually rationalizing her way out.

    Assuming not troll:

    You fucked up. You can’t ever undo that or get those years back. Do what anyone in that position should do: accept those facts about yourself and go forward with the lessons learned. It’s what everyone here has to learn, regardless of sex.

  2. I am real, and this is a real request for advice. Though I am not a troll, I won’t publicly do anything to prove my ‘realness’ based on my identity, because I have heard horror stories about personal information being posted and used for harassment. Since I have written myself in an honest but very negative light, I am worried about exposing myself to that kind of personal attack.

    @SJF In response to your suggestion, I looked at Dr. Schleshinger. It looks, at a glance, like you might be referring to her writings on building “harmonious blended families”… is this what you were thinking when you directed me to follow her?

  3. HaplessHypergamy gone out of control,

    I won’t judge you for marrying 5 times, but I would judge you on your 9th marriage.

  4. I’ve never read her books. I have been listening to her occasionally on XM radio (Starz channel) on my long drives to my farm or driving to my kids college . And when I have a long drive with my wife we can actually listen together when Howard Stern isn’t doing an interesting interview.

    She is sex neutral (male/female) with her advice.

    She always defaults to no matter how you fucked up your relationship with a man/men, take care of the children. Do what is best for their upbringing. She’s simple and straightforward in her advice. And despite her past relationships she is a traditionalist.

    Many callers to her radio show have stories like you. That’s what made me think to recommend her. Heck, you might even call into the show and ask her what you should do.

  5. With Sun’s caveats assumed,

    Hopeless, the guys here are right that you can’t definitively ‘fix’ this. You dun goofed.

    You can’t go back to your ex. The frame in that relationship is damaged irreparably; you’ve demonstrated through dramatic action that he’s not your best option.

    I think the best you can do is take care of your children, and try your best to wrest your rebellious instinct into control, so that you can relax into your current man’s frame as much as possible.

    Every day you get to choose what sort of person to be. Start choosing differently. Men here de prioritize themselves, and so need to be taught to prioritize themselves and their goals and desires. You? You need the opposite.

    This world ain’t about your feels. And actions have consequences. Act accordingly.

    I haven’t listened to Dr Laura in like 15 years, but I remember her being sensible. My mother liked her and she’s a good women with one husband and many great children, so that may be a lead :). Personally I’d send ya to Stingray for ideas; she comments here sometimes and has a blog called ‘Verus Conditio’. She’s Christian but I think a lot of her stuff transfers even if you’re not….

    1. @Sun thank you for taking the time to legitimately answer. I have made a mess and will need to deal with that as all adults if both genders must sometimes do.

      @forgethesky thank you, sincerely, to you. Your response was exactly the kind of clarity to how to ethically forge forward. I am in a weak point of not trusting my thought process which I feel is understandable considering this year’s worth of self realization and self awareness. Suffice to say I have made some exceptionally bad decisions based on “feelings” and I want off the merry-go-round of hypergamy. My advice seeking was soecifically on which man does the cycle end and I genuinely appreciated you taking the time to write me a rationale for where I belong.

      I haven’t messed up my current marriage. Knowing I have always been the problem in the past and continuing to read and learn (here and other places, thank you for the female blogger referral. I am not Christian, but I am not offended by Christian ideals) and I will move forward, wary of myself and my destructive nature.

      I have got to eventually figure out how to forgive myself for ruining my ex husband. He has forgiven me, and we co-parent nicely. The guilt I feel leaves me flattened and self loathing. That can’t be good for my kids. It will never, ever sit right with me knowing what I’ve done, but I have got to figure out a better way to mourn my losses.

      Anyway.. I know I set off all sorts of troll alarms, but I had to risk being disbelieved in the hopes of genuine discourse. So, thank you for addressing me genuinely. I’m genuinely wrecked and needed some human kindness, deserved, or not.

      1. @Forge the sky
        “Men here de prioritize themselves, and so need to be taught to prioritize themselves and their goals and desires.”

        It’s being here that reminds me of the importance if self care.

        “Think about man and woman, the world as it appears before you. Think about the actual people as they present themselves to you.”
        https://m.soundcloud.com/jkluis/nirvana-come-as-you-are

        @HopelessHypergamy
        Hang in their check this out.
        https://m.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/

  6. Hey @WildMan,

    I like the sorts of questions you’re asking. That you’ve spent so much time and grief, and (I suspect) so much blood and so many tears, for them lays lie to the vindictive finger-pointing of many a woman. It lays their claims that men don’t care bald, renders toothless cries of misogyny and oppression, till all their rhetoric is as the weakness of age.

    But, you know. You’ve spent years trying to learn how to please and elevate women. What have you learned? That you cannot.

    Leave your mind open. But open it first to this: do you have the least notion or concern about how you can be pleased or elevated?

    ‘Egalitarianism’ is an ideal used to gain power. If you want power, claim you’re oppressed then appeal to equality. You’ll be given more power soon enough after that.

    You’re living in a dream. Why are you thinking about equal or not equal? Think about man and woman, the world as it appears before you. Think about the actual people as they present themselves to you.

  7. Speaking of Indians, I think their ideal man is very different from our own. Energetic, fearless, humorous, agreeable is more their ideal(whereas ours tends to be more stoic, unemotional, reserved). Something like the Irish ideal(who actually have a saying you should never give a sword to a man who doesn’t know how to dance). I knew a guy of Irish descent like this. Its the only funeral I’ve ever been to where everyone was laughing. It was hard to think about him or his exploits without cracking a smile(I had gone on a hunting trip with him even though he was blind…and he managed to get more ducks than I did). He was quite a man.

  8. Otherworldly writing Rollo and it almost gets bizarre how well you recognize and express these things.

    My take is that recognizing the pervasiveness of the FI is like peeling an onion. I am still amazed at how deeply it goes and how deeply my own psyche has been pervaded by it. Here’s a quick flyer.

    -Stage 1 We all have the red pill awakening and look back with regret on our behavior; the oneitis, loss of frame etc and you go into a “I’d like to do it all over again and I would have negged. I wouldn’t have pedestalized,” etc. That’s the PUA phase when you smack your forehead and think of how much more fun you could have had with this new tool. But that’s just the beginning.

    -Stage 2 is maybe formulating your own new way to confront it, how to live, what to value etc. This is exciting and a bit scary. This is definitely the “They Live” movie phase when you start to understand that quite a lot is stacked up against you. Fatherly advice, EVERYONE’S opinion of you has been filtered through the FI. (I’m single and I would say there have been a decent handful of lost friendships—unspoken, and nothing happened— just due to blue pill friends thinking I’m a lost cause/Peter Pan) This is the time to strategize, learn to minimalize, formulate your game plan. You lose interest in blue pill friends/family to some degree.

    Stage 3 is maybe the hardest and most lonely. It’s when you realize that your own inner, sacred and incredibly unique, endlessly layered psyche is really (and has always been) riddled with the FI. I was lovesick at 5 years old. Tasha. That’s how quickly I internalized the images, the narratives. Even damned cartoons depicted the FI.

    That’s the hardest thing to take. All your dreams, visions, idealized selves, untouchable proud memories of yourself (when you were getting a pat on the head from the FI) your anticipations, the ideal states that you’re working toward..your very brain and it’s sacred idiosyncracies were built around the FI at least to some degree if not to an incredible degree. Now your psyche is much less your own than you thought it was. And that’s your own psyche, nothing could be closer to you. It’s a conundrum now.

    So many entire emotional eras that mean so much to you were just some form of you wrestling with the FI, succeeding or failing…oh, the drama!. My life in all its pain and glory! This has been my life and these are the emotions I’ve felt! (Back of the hand to the forehead, looking out over an ocean bluff) But…not really. So much has been built on the FI foundation. LOTS of wasted time. It’s so hard to take. In my case, it’s been to an extreme, I’d guess.

    How much of your very own psyche has been (or currently is) built around FI tenets? That’s the question, imo.

  9. OK guys, totally off topic, so please ignore if you are just following the thread.

    Just for context, and only because it is relevant, I am a 40 year old virgin. Never kissed a woman on the lips. Not even a prostitute. I am not MGTOW or gay. Didn’t grow up in USA, its not that unusual where I grew up. In fact, it is common if you are shy and don’t want to get married.I am not miserable so I don’t want sympathy.

    I just need some practical feedback. Let’s just say I am thirsty. Otherwise, I have an acceptable SMV. Not interested in discussing greek symbols such as alpha, beta, gamma, omega, theta, pi, epsilon, eta, delta, psi, mu, nu, tilda, xi, zeta, kappa, sigma, and all others that I omitted. Nor do I want to have a discussion on colors, hues, shades and spectra of pills. Let’s also leave out game theory, cooperative, non-cooperative, repeated, deterministic, stochastic, dynamic, evolutionary and all the rest. I’ll leave all that for some other day. If you are already bored, please skip the rest.

    A fairly hot, pretty girl, may be 20ish, made a pass at me, held my hand in the dark in a yoga class. Me taken aback. Anyway don’t want to announce my virginity to lots of hot and pretty, but mostly coming across as unfeminine, entitled girls. Anyway, not yet skilled enough to spin plates. So that’s that, at least for now. It just made me aware that I want to become less thirsty so that I can better enjoy other things in my life.

    There is this pharmacist. Married, (but no ring on her fingers..don’t know why). May be in her 40s. Same ethnicity. Not very conventionally hot, but I find her mature, friendly, feminine, attractive and approachable. Much more than I found the hundreds of hot girls at the Yoga class. May be my inner Oedipus or whatever, I couldn’t care less. Just want to kiss-kiss bang-bang the pharmacist. So I made a pretext and asked her for her number. She genuinely taken aback. So I leave her alone. Next time for my meds, I get six texts in 7 days from the pharmacy. Just thought its the pharmacy automated system malfunction or something. She hands me the meds and casually asks me if I take annual flu shots. I tell her I don’t and I ask her whether she does. She says, only if my …hmm. …inlaws get it (who I presume are staying with her family at the moment). I reply that sometimes… she completes ‘it might actually give you the flu’. Anyway, we laugh and I walk out. At night, correctly or incorrectly, it hits my hind brain that she doesn’t mind some discrete and level-headed fun on the side. The only thing that surprises me is how easily she transitioned from taken aback to interested. I haven’t slept very well for a couple of weeks. When it’s time for meds next, which I speculate may sync with her cycle if she hasn’t entered menopause, I plan to ask her out and if she agrees, you know the rest.

    Here is my question: She has all my info, at least full name and all the rest that a pharmacist has. I can always change my pharmacy but she will still have my info after the fun is over for one of us. That’ true even if it is a ONS. What are the risks? Is it fool hardy? What if she tells her husband at some point and he reacts as a furious husband could. The scenarios are many but none of them are ones that I look forward to. Also, I have guests too. So it will have to be a hotel room. There will be lies, deception, subterfuge blah blah. I will feel guilty. I imagine she too will. Don’t feel good about screwing a fellow male over, even if I have never seen him. So what should I do?

  10. @Leopard: It’s best not to shit where you eat and there are lots of other women you will feel the same way about if you allow yourself.

  11. @Leopard:

    You should probably get a plan on how to do the logistics, where to go if something happens. You should develop it anyway and keep it for the next time.

    But your other worries sound like buffers to me. Your gut says something is wrong (and it’s probably right) but it doesn’t point to the right issue. In fact a betrayed husband has nothing to gain from harming you. “Mate guarding” is one of the worst things to do if he want’s to keep his wife. Husbands being cheated on are in a very weak position actually, that’s why it’s so bad. You won’t be a real danger to his marriage anyway and beating on you will make matters with his wife only worse.

    What I think your gut-feeling wants to tell you is, the thing with the pharmacist isn’t gonna fly anyway. Women flirt just for validation. It doesn’t mean much. They actually give you cheap positive signals to get you emotionally attached and while they surely enjoy your attachment, they don’t necessarily want to fuck you because of it but may even not fuck you because you got attached so easily. To me you already seem too dependent on that option, which is bad for success.

    Spinning plates is not necessarily about laying all of them, it doesn’t take skill. The basic idea of spinning plates (and it is really, really important, read Rollo’s series on it) is to become independent from any individual women not only in practical possibilities but also in your mind. Thinking too much about one women is already bad. They like those who don’t think about them all the time. So spinning plates means to have always several women on your mind (or none). If you realize you are thinking about one and the possibilities there all the time, stop this and look for ways to get further with some other. Just to free your mind.

    So if want to approach her, don’t be afraid, what could happen? But I’d encourage you to do it not because you want to get laid, but to prove me wrong. Take it as a game.

  12. HopelessHypergamy October 25th, 2015 at 12:45 am

    I agree with Sun Wukong first take. No woman except Amazing Amy Dunne ever had that much introspection.

    leopard October 25th, 2015 at 6:02 am

    No 40 y.o. virgin ever was that clear-headed. Nice try though.

  13. Betas in transition – that’s what these guys are. If only I could become a lesbian then girls would love me.

    I must say, having read a bit about what is going on with gender education in younger grade levels, it really appears like much of it is becoming an evil, societal-level shit test of the highest order. The doctors want the kids as young as possible in order to have the best looking transitioned outcome, which unfortunately is the same time when the kids are the most confused.
    The question then becomes – is 8 year old Johnny beta enough to consider transitioning and going on puberty blockers and hormones ( without parental consent mind you – see Oregon) because of a gender re education seminar in the classroom.
    The public enemy is testosterone. No longer will Young boys be given adhd meds, but instead t blockers and estrogen therapy. It used to be that the imperative wanted to simply mentally castrate the betas, now they want physical castration as well.

    Here’s a question. Why does it seem that transitioning from male to female is the overwhelmingly more popular option today?

  14. Do young boys still read the warrior poetry of the past?

    Young boys want to do daring deeds. Whether it be Horatius holding off the Etruscan army or the brave explorers travelling into distant and unknown lands, they want to accomplish the impossible.

    Young boys want to be builders, explorers and yes even great warriors. We are not touchy feely and we do not emote. We do!

    Here is an excerpt of the poem “Horatius” which every young boy should read:

    He smiled on those bold Romans,
    A smile serene and high;
    He eyed the flinching Tuscans,
    And scorn was in his eye.
    Quoth he, “The she-wolf’s litter 360
    Stand savagely at bay;
    But will ye dare to follow,
    If Astur clears the way?”

    Then, whirling up his broadsword
    With both hands to the height, 365
    He rushed against Horatius,
    And smote with all his might.
    With shield and blade Horatius
    Right deftly turned the blow.
    The blow, though turned, came yet too nigh; 370
    It missed his helm, but gashed his thigh.
    The Tuscans raised a joyful cry
    To see the red blood flow.

    He reeled, and on Herminius
    He leaned one breathing-space, 375
    Then, like a wild-cat mad with wounds,
    Sprang right at Astur’s face.
    Through teeth and skull and helmet
    So fierce a thrust he sped,
    The good sword stood a handbreadth out 380
    Behind the Tuscan’s head.

    And the great lord of Luna
    Fell at that deadly stroke,
    As falls on Mount Avernus
    A thunder-smitten oak. 385
    Far o’er the crashing forest
    The giant arms lie spread;
    And the pale augurs, muttering low
    Gaze on the blasted head.

    On Astur’s throat Horatius 390
    Right firmly pressed his heel,
    And thrice and four times tugged amain,
    Ere he wrenched out the steel.
    And “See,” he cried, “the welcome,
    Fair guests, that waits you here! 395
    What noble Lucumo comes next
    To taste our Roman cheer?”

  15. @thelastcoyote

    “Many commenters are pointing out – correctly – that it’s difficult for even more masculine, red pill guys to find & make such friends in this day and age.”

    100% true. Males now-a-days are so knee deep in hating on any guy with balls, you better hope you’ve made some friends in HS or have have some RP aware guys, or friends that at least get laid, or you’re screwed now.

    “They hate us because they can’t be us”.

    You’d think the ignorant cunts who dislike guys who get pussy or are RP aware, would realize they’re no more then haters but sheep rarely have their own thoughts.

    Honestly, this is one of the harder things about the RP for me to come to terms with. It’s a scope of what society is now – a bunch of betas so desperate to get their dicks wet, they bash their own gender to a women who would cringe if he even attempted to kiss her cheeks.

    It’s a great example of the INCREDIBLE lack of integrity and self-awareness among guys have now, too. You’d think a guy would “tip his hat” to a guy with a sack and some self-respect and doesn’t take shit from women, but it’s the exact opposite – you become public enemy No. 1 essentially because you have confidence.

    One of your co-workers could be nice to your face and you may think the two of you are friends, but the second he has a window to bash you to some chick he wants to bang, and the chick really wants you and he KNOWS this, they’ll take a shot at you 10/10 times.

    I actually said to a co-worker one time “whats it like to do nothing but talk to a girl about me?” I could literally hear the wheels turning in his head and the “oh shit” moment come across his face.

  16. Nowadays it’s difficult to find real friends, not to mention red pill aware friends.
    The questions is where to find these typ of men ?!
    Not many male spaces left with the exception of the internet and especially this forum.

    A man need other men more than a woman. A man needs a woman just for fucking and for childbirth, nothing more.

  17. Fair Warning – I’m going long, sorry, but this topic needs it. If it makes you crazy, please just scroll on by.

    Re: Transexualism – Bottom line up front? There is no such thing, it’s complete hokum. I became curious about this a few years back and attempted to understand the science and literature on the topic and I was shocked to find out how utterly weak and superficial it is. Then I ran into J. Michael Bailey Ph.D., a research psychologist at Northwestern who has dedicated his academic life to studying homosexuality and transsexualism. He had very different ideas about all of it which made huge amounts of sense to me and explained a lot. Fyi, for you Christians thinking that this is good news for your ridiculous views of homosexuality, it ain’t – homosexuality is most surely not a choice and occurs steadily at a low rate in humans. It’s “natural” in this sense, which is what natural means.

    He wrote a book about it so anyone who wants to dive in, I encourage you to do so. He’s written it to be accessible by non-academics, it will blow your mind. You see, he’s not politically motivated at all. He’s neither an SJW/LGBTQ whatever madman, nor a fundo Christian. He’s a legit, curious scientist. He actually made the book publicly available for free as he was so concerned about how badly the “science” of transsexualism was being handled. Here’s a link to the free pdf he published The Man Who Would Be Queen – http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf It’s a fascinating read.

    Let me summarize what I learned from him, and other reading:

    – Male homosexuality and female homosexuality are very different things, as it is with other aspects of human sexuality. So you can’t study them as the same thing. Female actual homosexuality, pure lesbianism, is rare. Most women who have same-sex partners also have had other opposite-sex partners in their lives, whereas homosexual men don’t move back and forth. This is due the strength of male sexual intensity, our orientations are more deeply grooved. Female sexuality is more plastic and adaptable in general, and is also less intense in real ways.

    – Notice that most of the examples of transsexuality are of men wanting to become women, not the reverse. While this is common knowledge in trans circles, it’s never discussed publicly. Women to male trans are much rarer. You do get women who are butchier for sure, but those who want to actually identify is male? This is rare. Ask yourself why there are no camps for all the young girls who want to be boys? So, let’s just look at male transsexuality, okay?

    – There are two kinds of male transsexuals, which encompass virtually all male transsexuals:

    1. Young boys who begin to sharply adopt female affectations and style and interests in their single digits, with a sharp increase as they hit adolescence. All these boys are homosexual – what, you’ve never heard that before? That this is exclusively a homosexual trait? Of course, you can find activists out there who will cite bogus data and studies disproving this, but they are lying. This is almost exclusively the province of young homosexual boys.

    2. Men in their 20s who develop into cross-dressers. They are actually sexually dysfunctional, and used to be considered ‘auto-erotic”, in other words having a severe fetish like a shoe or foot fetish. Such men are usually heterosexual, but rarely have had sex with women. Instead, they fetishize female sexual anatomy and features so much and they want to own the anatomy themselves. Such men’s main sexual activity is masturbating themselves as they preen in a mirror dressed up like a woman, getting the surgery is just the next escalation for them – just as is depicted by the killer in Silence of the Lambs. But such men do not see themselves as women at all. Fyi, in countries where sex change surgery is paid for by insurance or by govt, such men are told to lie about their sexual behavior as psychologists do not see such men as suffering from a gender disorientation, instead they have a fetish. So they lie about being “women stuck in men’s bodies” and about how they pleasure themselves and their sexual partners (who in reality are usually non-existent). They are counseled to lie in this way openly by trans-activists. So, you see, even they are in on the hustle here. They just want what they want, they don’t give a shit about the science.

    – Homosexuality – It’s now pretty clear that sexual orientation is driven by invitro hormonal exposure. Male fetuses that get too much estrogen during certain periods of gestation develop into homosexuals, ditto for lesbian women.

    But what never gets discussed openly (but J. Michael Bailey does) is the behavior of homosexuality, and how this relates to transsexualism. It’s like the big scary secret the LGBTSasldkfjasldkfj crowd doesn’t want you to ever talk about.

    Why do gay men act effeminately in the first place? Answer: They are trying to attract men – who in the vast majority are not gay. They act effeminately to draw the attraction of men who are straight, not gay. Our sexual dimorphism and orientations are immediately observable in new born infants and sharp differences in behavior are observable by three yeas old that can be easily traced to our sexual identities and orientations. An interesting aside is that another secret the LGBT crowd doesn’t want discussed is the phenomena of tops and bottoms in the male, gay world. It turns out there some number of men who consider themselves heterosexual who will fuck another man up the ass or get blowjobs from them, but never give. These are the “tops” and gay men seek them out. There is a lot of this going on in the gay community, and it tells us something about homosexuality that for some reason is uncomfortable for gay men to admit – they aren’t just attracted to gay men.

    Dishonest LGBT warriors try to use this information to say, “See, sexual orientation is fluid” but of course that’s not true. If these men were gay, why wouldn’t they want to be penetrated? What you find when this is studied is that in some cultures, straight men may also have sex with men, particularly young men. This is behavioral abberation, not a wholesale change in orientation. It’s also true that in these societies, gay men cover their orientations by engaging this way so there are gay men who do this as well. Bottom line? We don’t have honest conversations about any of this stuff – actual homosexual behavior and its implications for our understanding of human sexuality is simply not a topic for polite conversation. But it all supports Bailey’s interpretation and analysis. I think the reason Bailey has cracked this is because he long studied homosexuality in a very non-judgmental way. He also did a lot of field work and was/is well known in the actual LBGT community local to him, but now he’s hated globally…

    – Transsexuality in young boys is really just a strong expression of homosexuality. Almost all homosexual men report having dressed up in girls clothing as a boy/teen – this is not common among hetero men, fyi. Many homosexual men report feeling like they were girls or more girl-like growing up. Most adapt their behaviors to include both masculine and effeminate expressions but some do not. It’s also true that the strength of the sex drive matters – and in homosexual young boys, their reaction to their orientation and all things sexually is going to be much stronger than it is in females, hence why we don’t see too many young girls who’s orientation is so strong that they want to become boys.

    – Gender politics: What’s been done is simple. Radical leftist wingnuts have taken aspects of the known science, made up huge swaths of pseudo-science, blended it with neo-marxist, Gramscian and New School oriented victim-oppressor dyads, and have defined “gender” as something separable from sex. It’s essentially claimed that huge aspects of human sexuality are actually socially constructed, including the “gender binary” which is simply an artifice adopted by the powerful to retain their power and control, so as to subjugate others. It’s just another lever of power used to perpetuate hegemony and injustice, like race, class – whatever.

    – If you ask a biologist about the sex of an organism, he/she will tell you that this is determined by how they reproduce. In the case of humans, we reproduce sexually and have two complementary sexes. We identify the sex of a human by examining the “gamete” it transmits during sexual reproduction. Males transmit vast numbers of variegated, but fairly zippy, sperm, while females secret an egg deep inside of themselves which those crafty sperm have to seek out in a winner takes all contest, a contest that ends in mass suicide for the sperm. Humans, in the vast majority, are one or the other. Period. Dot. End of sentence.

    This is what determines which sex you are. The entire notion of “social construction” of “gender” and sexual orientation has been thrown into question in real scientific circles over the past 20 years, but no matter, the SJW brigade just increases their intolerance of dissent and exerts more and more power across the institutions it controls. I read an interchange between Stephen Novella, Ph.D. of Skeptics Guide to the Universe, a podcast/site I used to frequent until that odious dingbat, Rebecca Watson took on more and more of a role there. Novella is a practicing neursurgeon, research scientist and lecturer at Yale and a brilliant skeptic, who lets far too much PC garbage get by but still is worth listening to.

    He was having a discussion about the topic of the brain and transsexuality with a “Cultural Anthropologist” on the Neurologica site, where Steven engages with the public on Neurology and other matters, as he is a broad skeptic. Novella was clear, these cases of young boys presenting with strong female affectations do not have “female brains in male bodies”. There is no such thing. The minor variations that have been observed in male trans brains could easily be, and most likely are, neuro-plastic responses to development and conditioning. They prove nothing and the idea of a “woman stuck in man’s body” based on the “brain scans” as it’s often described is ludicrous. The Cultural Anthropologist responded with, “It’s bio-cultural and not that simple” but offered nothing deeper. Novella ran him off the road intellectually – BUT THIS DIDN’T MATTER TO THE SJW PhD.

    It gets worse. It turns out there is a mass phenomena of “trans regret” out there, with post-op trans men rarely reporting an improvement in their life/state as a result of the surgery. Suicide rates are higher among post-ops, as are all kinds of other problems. Johns Hopkins has stopped doing gender reassignment surgery altogether on young boys, fyi. This a man-made catastrophe for these young, gay boys.

    Me? I say let them dress up if they want to and let them behave effeminately. Just don’t tell me they are girls. They never become girls. Ever. All the other biological differences remain. This entire field is a case study in how science and our public intellectual discourse has been hijacked by radical dingbats. Also, take a good look at who’s behind all this. The bureaucrats, the activists, the academics – overwhelmingly it’s women doing the talking. It’s all nonsense. And people wonder why I keep saying women are stupid? The entire SJW runaway train of pseudo-intellectual lunacy is manned largely by women. This insanity is the doing of women.

    We are a fucking joke of a society. Those who think this can all be undone, well, I have another challenge for you. Try turning pickles back into cucumbers – good fucking luck.

    Bailey has recently made a second charge into the bayonets of the establishment as his theories are being born out by reality. Here’s a hate screed from the HuffPo on Bailey’s “second coming”, lol. Does anyone see a similar refrain here? She presents the “science” as settled and mainstream now, and Bailey as a kook who isn’t even doing science, lol. It’s just funny. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-beyer/the-second-coming-of-the_b_6763188.html Read it, it’s an article Orwell would love.

    Sitting back, roasting marshmallows on the burning husk of a former great society that we now most surely are, that’s what’s left for me now. No wonder I’ve become such a hedonist, post Red Pill. I mean, truly, I don’t see a future worth fighting for or perpetuating. This society is complete shit, filled with idiots running their mouths about nothing. Fuck it all.

  18. Hopelessly – If you are sincere, its interesting to see the other side of the coin. I can tell you I went through a phase were I despised myself for being so clueless that my first marriage crumbled. I’ve said here and elsewhere that I’m fairly certain I could have turned my first marriage around, but from where I’m standing today I’m glad I didn’t find the sphere until after we were separated. A damaged relationship can often be salvaged, but a great deal of the success depends on the type of damage, and how deep it goes. In most cases, its an up hill battle that never truly ends. I’m on marriage number two, and this relationship started when I was in a better mental place, which means I got to set the tone from day 1 and instead of pushing up hill, most days its a matter of small course corrections at best, if not cruise control.

    If your current relationship isn’t damaged too much, take all that mental anguish you insist on putting yourself through, and channel it into being the best fucking wife in the world. You know something now that 99.9% of women alive don’t, so use it to NOT ONLY get what you want, but help your family get everything they need as well. You want to beat yourself up over your past divorces? Fine. Use that to prove you’re better than you were.

    And as far as guilt goes? Yeah I still feel a little from time to time. But, my ex was 50% responsible for our relationship, which means she gets 50% of the blame. Although honestly, I see it more as a 70/30 where my failure was larger, because I should have been steering the ship. So yeah, I fucked up more. She isn’t guilt free. Quibbling over the details is pointless. And as far as it goes, my ex and I get along wonderfully these days. She lives a state away, and is remarried. We talk in detail over the kids in my care, which is only one between us now since our oldest has moved out. Otherwise, well I’ve learned to communicate with her in ways that are more effective than in the past. That and I now care very little how she feels about what I have to say, and its no surprise that she tolerates it all very well. Its too bad I cared so much while we were married, but such is life…

  19. @SJF Ok, since you took the time to write me about Dr. Schleshinger, I will engage for this debate…

    I am either authentic
    OR
    A bored person trolling others on the Internet

    Apply Occam’s Razor to the competing theories.

    If men don’t think women are actually capable of coming to the realizations I have, would a troll (presumably a man) write one in such a way?

    I’ve been lurk reading for a year, and though a lot of the men have very negative opinions of women, I didn’t realize the current paradigm has us as actually *incapable* of learning, working of self awareness, taking accountability, or seeing reason.

    I thought the going theory was that we’re really socialized not to, not that we’re actually incapable of such.

    I expected to be rebuked for being terribly destructive, not for not really existing.

    I know whether I am authentic or not doesn’t really matter to anyone, and this thread isn’t ‘all about me’ but since I do exist, and since you don’t think me possible (or at the very least, unlikely) it encourages me to attempt a reasonable argument for myself. I do so in the hopes I make space for women like me to be theoretically possible. Since I do exist, and since RP men are scientists enacting their own social experements, I should be accounted for as a variable even if the percentage is small.

  20. Hello Rollo and fellow men (Men?),

    I feel compelled writing this down, I’d rather have sent it to you personally but I couldn’t find an email-address or equivalent so I’m just going to post here and see what comes of it.

    Why do I feel compelled to write? Because I’ve just had the best night out in my life. I did not get layed, I did not talk to any women, I just have some blisters on my feet.

    About two weeks ago a colleague from work gave me your book, the Rational Male, and I’ve been chewing my way through it. I say chewing because I love reading, but the Rational Male hasn’t gone down that easy. When I read the first few pages I felt disdain, here we go all these sad folk trying to find some tricks to empower themselves. But the book was not about techniques, not some magical 5 step program to get the girl, in fact it didn’t offer me any techniques/stories/whatever to immediately use for own my benefit. In stead it just kept on massaging my mind, prompting new ideas, forcing me to to take a good hard look at myself on a rational level. Not the recipe for creating a perfect sword, but rather how to identify the ingredients for creating such a sword.

    As much as I can appreciate the rational validity of what you were writing, I have to to admit it only clicked for me because I was in the middle of a situation which so perfectly had all the ingredients of pitching one against the old, ingrained mindset versus the ‘liberated’ mindset that you preach.

    A female colleague of mine was/is going through a crisis in her marriage and she was throwing her attention and potential affection around like candy bars. And I was one of the males ‘lucky’ enough to be on the receiving end of this. So she engendered in me a feeling of maybe being able to be sexual with a woman of a caliber I had yet to experience. Had I been my old self this would have run it’s sad, predictable course, with me attempting just about anything to get sex from her. But while this dynamic was occurring I was reading the Rational Male, and every day that passed I was more able to reflect on what I was doing, what she was giving me, and the vast divide between what I was hoping she was giving me and the reality of what was occurring. To cut a long story short she is now back with her husband after some relational therapy, trying to forge the fallout of this crisis into a story of using the useful pieces to build a lasting marriage. When she told me she was going back to her husband I was angry and disappointed, but I also felt that while she was slipping back under water I had breached the surface and was breathing again in what felt like forever.

    So I couldn´t sit around moping about my loss, I just had to out and find other women. So I went out last night to see if I could make this new mindset work for me. I went to a club I frequented in the past (nice atmosphere, people of all ages, no fights), even though the music being played (R&B and hip-hop) was not particularly to my liking. As it turned out the music was a blessing in disguise because it has a strong macho culture associated with it and subsequently brings men to the club who identify with this culture, (wannabe) Alphas if you will. So I had a prime opportunity watching these men trying to attract women.

    Now I like dancing, with a little coffee and a beer or two I can keep going for hours. I’m not much for running, team sports, etc, but dancing is a physical activity that just feels great. There is a part in your book about this, and I had already experienced it’s validity in the past, but dancing and enjoying yourself makes women flock to you on the dancefloor. Especially when you then flat out ignore all of them. Now that I’m writing this I just keep hearing Caesar Milan in my head telling people how to act when they come to visit his compound and are faced with a pack of dogs: “no touch, no talk, no eye contact”. Where for dogs this behaviour establishes some dominance, preventing you from getting savaged, I believe to women to covertly communicated that you are not buying what they are selling. And given that so many other men in the club are obviously interested in buying, this set you apart in a desirable way.
    Something you did not mention in your book: other men will fucking hate you doing this. Every few minutes I was getting jostled, pushed, elbowed, etc by men in my vicinity. Nothing overt, because fighting gets you kicked out of the club, but they’ll turn their backs to you, try to close of your space so you can’t dance freely etc. Cesar Milan’s mantra is going to do wonders for you here as well. I just kept thinking to myself: “fuck you, I’m a leaf, watch me soar”. I’m curious about how this is perceived by women, do they see indifference (high value) or submission (low value) when you refuse to rise to these challenges by other men?

    I spent hours on the dancefloor just watching men and women interact. It was like being on the trading floor of the sexual marketplace, a fun atmosphere and alcohol stripping away inhibitions and people acting out their desires. And I have to say, the overall lack of game present in the men was staggering. Aside from some real Alphas even these macho men are just as powerless as I had always felt. They tried so hard and failed so miserably, because one way or the other, they all communicated neediness. Of course they were trying, where I was not, so that still puts them ahead of me for the time being. But regardless the evening was resounding success because not only did I get confirmation that at age 30, 10kg overweight, I was still able to generate attraction for myself and better yet I felt completely lucid while doing it. I’m excited to go out again next week, and change myself more.

    I’ll end with a thank you, your book has given me a handle on what I want and have to change about myself.

    Marc

  21. I should be accounted for as a variable even if the percentage is small

    what’s to account, one more in the zillion cases of hypergamy? Assuming you’re real, your current husband married a post-wall woman who had four previous husbands and a child, so is beta. There is no submitting to frame, and you just have to nurture your beta and two children (bake them cookies, vacation at Disney). If you want your beta to change, buy him Rollo’s books and wait for the fireworks.

  22. @scribblerg-

    Did the same thing for a couple years, studied reports on analysis done, data collected and statistics computed. Like you perhaps, I was looking for answers concerning nature vs nurture. I came to the opposite conclusion as you. There is no objectively identified physiological cause. Research on the research always debunks the findings. Yet the research continues in relentless pursuit of desired results. The researchers who “discover” natural physiological cause, universally and without exception are throwing a dart at the wall, then painting a bullseye around it. The variables are so complicated, little understood and numerous that no real definitive objective confirmation is possible. All studies leave unanswered questions and no definitive conclusions. This leaves the “scientific” canvas blank for whoever to paint whatever they want to scam the populace. Anyone can pretend whatever “conclusions” they desire to fit whatever narrative they wish to create. “This is “nurture” attempting to distort “nature”. This form of perverted “Nurture” cannot change nature.

    The 240 + page of – http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf which you reference and seem to adore proves nothing. It reads like a transgender homosexual soap opera and actually serves as nothing more than a sales brochure for the same.

    When pop culture bullshit conflicts with and directly contradicts our personally experienced innate nature, we must ask ourselves some basic questions.

    Why should we change our perceptions?

    What is the benefit to the human race of finding a physiological cause for any behavior that is by all honest observation nothing more than a behavior?

    Why should we find a physiological cause for the behavior?

    Are we seeking a physiological cause for the behavior because we want to justify the behavior?

    Why should the acceptance of any atypical behavior be imposed upon the majority?

  23. ” I will engage for this debate…”

    This phrase sets every alarm off at once.

    “Apply Occam’s Razor to the competing theories.”

    In order to do so, one must not make presumptions on which theories are acceptable. No false dichotomies or excluded middles.

    “I thought the going theory was that we’re really socialized not to, not that we’re actually incapable of such.”

    I’m not sure where you would have gotten such an idea. The Tabula Rasa hypothesis of the social “progressives” is not held in high regard around these parts.

  24. PJ: “Apply Occam’s Razor to the competing theories.”
    Occam’s chainsaw would suffice.

    “Please don’t feed the troll.”
    That’s my last feeding.

  25. I met a woman like @HypergamyRunAmok the other night while out. I AMOGged her date, just for the fuck of it. I guessed she was on her third divorce before she announced it and treated her like the broken, pathetic woman she was all night.

    She was picking my napkin up off the floor for me by the end of the night, and I mostly ignored her. I destroyed her date, but the guy couldn’t help but like me and be cool with me cuz I just kept complimenting him on his betaness, lol. Women was like 39, might have been a 7 in her day, but was now just short of dumpy and fading fast. The fact that I didn’t fall to her feet and instead just teased her and then would ignore her drove her crazy. My wingman knew her from work, we ran into her while waiting for her date.

    This is part of why I can’t do the older ones. By this point the cognitive dissonance is deafening. She has to pretend she’d got all the answers and is happy and that her life isn’t a wreck. Even more aggravating is the pretense that she isn’t post-wall and soon to be completely invisible to men, but instead is hot and a catch. My approach made clear that I didn’t put much value on her and she just went crazy.

    It’s simple. Game is about tickling their hindbrains, it’s about striking the signals of genetic fitness and dominance and value that she can’t process cognitively. I’m nowhere near as consistent at it as I should be but I’m making real progress. I didn’t want to fuck this woman, and really only even did it to demonstrate something to my wingman. He’s in awe, fyi, which is kind of cool. It was like a game clinic while we ate dinner, just so much fun. I don’t have to stretch any muscles to game a late 30s corporate girl like her, that is as close to a layup as it gets for me.

    But I just made a rookie mistake with one super hottie who reached out to me. I have been working on this move that gets the young one’s to reach out to me. While it doesn’t work well yet, I know it will. Essentially, what I do is concentrate on the teasing and high value and don’t escalate, then instead of number closing, I just give them my card and tell them to text me or email me if I can’t isolate. The reason I do this is that I’m often in a context where I have be covert to giving me their number overtly clicks their brains but taking a card and smiling is easily doable for them. It’s still lower probability but working better. My card is like a personal card, it has my business name on it but it’s subtle and black and cool, the graphic is a big G for my name. Women fall for all this shit, they like the mystery. I’m very opaque about what I do in some ways, I focus more on them.

    Well, it worked with an hb8.5/9I recently met, she just reached out to me over email and I just about sprayed my pants. She’s 24 and literally model quality with an outrageously petite, fit body. Natural Ds, 22/3 inch waist, an ass you can eat breakfast on and I just gamed the shit out of her when i met her. I knew when she took the card that she would reach out. I met her at a younger friend’s music gig and we must have ended up talking for an hour or more. She’s curious about the world and smart, but not worldly and I could tell she loved the way I regaled her with stories.

    But I was smart. I realized that you have to isolate before escalating. So instead I really concentrated on activating the hamster. Interestingly, I just let it rip and just kept at her with stories and quips and other shit. I was super high energy, but not frenetic and she just melted. You could see it in her body language. I focused on amping all that up. I didn’t hard close but I said we should get together sometime, here’s my card, don’t be a stranger.

    I felt like a number close there, with lots of other people around, would have been too open and I think she appreciated just being able to say ‘okay, thanks’ and stuff it in her pocket without any of her GFs noticing. I felt like we “had a little secret” by the time I left.

    But I got totally sideways over email with her, I straightened out but the bottom line is the interest of such a high SMV woman, less than half my age, well, I immediately was thrown into “I’m not punching my weight”. Very negative thinking came up. Sigh, not pretty. It’s all about our mental point of origin and how we value ourselves. She became the catch and every bad habit of the past came racing in like I was a Blue Pill zombie or something, lol. I caught myself though and now just see it as another lesson. Huge progress getting her to reach out to me. She has a boyfriend, lol – I worked ridiculously hard about not being BF material. Told her flat out, “I don’t do relationships, I’m polyamrous”, she tried to frown and shame me and I just smirked my way though. I didn’t tease her about being young but instead used a ton of knowledge and references I know she’s too young to know of and kept reminding her that she was so young, making her feel like she had to prove to me she wasn’t like all her dumb friends. It really was a perfect set, and I was just flowing and having a great time.

    Still, I may have salvaged her, we’ll see. I sunk the hook pretty deeply with her originally. I’m learning a lot from all this here and am applying what YaReally has shared with us here, as well as the Pimp stuff and am making real progress. I’m disqualifying as the BF and really focusing on what demonstrates value. For me, the clever talk and humor and intellect really work for a certain kind of bright young woman, it’s what I’ve got so I decided to play it to the hilt. It’s natural for me and I don’t have to think or plan so that’s why it works. In a way, I’m just “more me” with them and dominate and tease and shame them and then flatter them. They learn things, they laugh, they submit…This last one, K., she was purring by the time I left.

    Course correction, learn the lesson and carry on. I bet I’ll end up fucking K. despite my bad hair moment, he he.

    1. @SJF
      “endless parade Buffers to avoid becoming better at being a masculine male?”

      Dealing with a lot of that today.

  26. HopelessHypergamy
    October 25th, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Not interested. State your biases or gtfo.

    “I didn’t realize the current paradigm has us as actually *incapable* of learning, working of self awareness, taking accountability, or seeing reason.

    I thought the going theory was that we’re really socialized not to, not that we’re actually incapable of such.”

    Childish.

  27. @NBTM – Notice you didn’t even bother to debunk a single fact I cited. Clearly you see some advantage in the “it’s all a mystery” argument. Sadly, the LGBT like to do this too as it allows them to sell a plausible but radical view which has no merit either.

    I’m not going to argue homosexuality with a bunch of Christians though, that’s for sure. Just like I wouldn’t argue particle physics with a 4 year old…

    The fetal hormonal exposure view is aggravating to both LGBTers and Christian fundos because it makes clear that being gay isn’t genetic but also isn’t a choice. I’m not sure why that bothers you folks so much. Do some googling if you want to know more, I’m not going to get into citations and playing web academic, make your own mind up. But the twin studies this research is based on are rock solid.

    Maybe I’ve been transported to another planet – this isn’t Dalrock Redux here, right? I mean, we don’t have to pretend that Christianity’s view of homosexuality isn’t ludicrous and pre-modern, do we?

  28. “Essentially, what I do is concentrate on the teasing and high value and don’t escalate, then instead of number closing, I just give them my card and tell them to text me or email me if I can’t isolate.”

    Now you’re getting the hang of silverhead game.

  29. LongGone – lol I know, I know… I’m just a hopeless idealist. Still waiting for a woman to step up for a solid debate. 😛

  30. Scribblerg,

    You are using LGTB propaganda to attack Christian fundamentalism. I’m not sure why and don’t care. You are fighting shit with shit. All form of chicanery have their use.

    For the record, I’m not a Christian or any other form of stupidstitioner.

    Really do more research and throughly examine that which you have already done.

  31. Glenn,

    I had an interesting convo with my primary care physician a few years back. I had an artificial knee replacement … been an athlete all my life but it catches up to you. I had a bleeder in my knee IN the hospital that the surgeon got called in to oversee and since I’d lost a lot of blood I was anemic. He wanted a blood test to determine how bad it was and might recommend I stay and extra day or two in the hospital. I asked him if he could do a Testosterone test since they were doing blood work anyway. He asked why and I said I’d been seeing commercials on it and noticed some of the symptoms in myself and thought I should get it checked out. He agreed.

    The next day a different doc came in, to tell me the news on the blood test and whether I could go home. HE BROUGHT UP THE T-Test. I asked what my level was and he said 130. And looked at me. I said, is that good/bad or what … cause I had no idea. He said the normal range is like 300-500. I just blinked … you mean I have a T-Level 1/3 of normal ? He said yes and as soon as I recovered from surgery I needed to get it checked out. Holy shit.

    Needless to say I’ve been on T-Replacement for the last 3 years and frankly it has helped me immensely in overcoming Blue Pill programming. When I started, I did some research so was prepared when my Primary Care doc started me. My first question to him was about getting my level back up to “Normal” and what was “Normal”. I told him that I’d read that T-Levels in men have been dropping and he CONFIRMED IT. Apparently this is well known in medical circles. What is considered Average for a male today would be way less than for the Average male throughout history.

    He blamed it on Obesity in men. I later learned that may not be correct … LOW T Levels actually cause obesity so there is a correlation but he stated it backwards. Anyway, he said that T Levels in men have been dropping steadily since the 1970s. So when discussing with him about getting my T Levels back to “Normal” I did not want to get to the lower end of the range but up to the mid-point. As the midpoint would actually be the lower end of the range of a male from, say, 100 yrs ago. He agreed.

    So long story short. The reason there are so many “neofemine” men and gays and transgenders and yes Blue Pill Mangina White Knight fuck heads …. is not just hormones during pregnancy but also hormone levels throughout life. Low T Levels are literally making men effeminate.

    Never investigated it beyond that; as far as I know there is something in the western environment (plastics ?) that is biologically causing men to not be so manly anymore. And there is a very good reason why many Manosphere sites suggest LIFTING as a first step at regaining manhood … LIFTING increases T Level naturally.

    So Glenn, seems you have a bent for research. New topic ???

    Without turning all Tin-Hat, conspiracy freak … I was wondering if there wasn’t something like a chemical added to the food … ordered and sanction by the government even … that deliberately makes T-Levels in men go down as a mechanism of societal control. Given how science has descended into leftist lib-tard political showmanship, ahla global warming … nothing would surprise me anymore.

    Rocket

  32. @Rocket

    What about men taking on their own blame for former blue pill tendencies and their own low testosterone?

    What about not being content with being a couch potato with endless parade Buffers to avoid becoming better at being a masculine male?

    Why not live your adult life not becoming obese, eating a good diet, lifting weights or being strong from physical exertion, not over-indulging in alcohol, not being stressed out and lacking control over your circumstances and outcomes in life and living a blue pill existence? Having courage, adventure and mastery over something/everything? Having Real Power?

    I’m not criticizing you (not knowing you), but how many factors in low T are exogenous conspiracies and how many are under a man’s control or lack of control?

  33. @Rocket – Great stuff, and I’ve looked at some of the T research and was tempted. I’ve since decided to ride along as hard as I can on better diet and lifting and it seems to be working. One of the things that did concern me were some of the longer term effects as it seems to suppress natural T generation.

    I think you may be generalizing a bit too much to see this as related to gestational hormonal exposure. I don’t recall seeing any research showing that the rate of homosexual male births was increasing, and that would be the case if what you were saying was driving fetal hormonal exposure. I think pregnancy remains unaffected by lower T in boys/men.

    I’m sure my T is still a bit low and had hit a terrible rate. I find getting really angry helps actually. Being a bit feisty sort of gets my energy up. Also lifting is just tremendous for it. I’ll keep on this path and see where I’m at say next summer.

    I like to hear this kind of advice and insight, fyi. I think there is a lot older guys can do about T.

    @KFG – Yeah, now I’m getting silverback game indeed. It’s fun too, much more natural. I’m starting to frame it into PUA logic a bit, and really concentrate on those high value things. Late 30s women are such a contrast from the young one’s. My natural, non-FI induced view sees that most of the 39ers are broken, wrecked human beings if they are still single.

    It’s kind of sick to watch. They become more crass and ridiculous, more anxious, more insistent and are just trying so hard it’s kind of impossible to be around and not laugh at. It’s as though they are demanding we buy into all their buffers and nonsense as the price of entry or something. That’s why negging works so well with them, because they know I’m right about the value situation. When you treat such a woman like she’s a prize, how could she ever respect you?

    Whereas if you treat the young woman like she’s exceptional in being appropriate for an older guy it’s like conferring status on her, versus cutting her down to size. In each case dominance is established but along entirely different lines, based on the woman’s place on the smv journey.

  34. Consider the TRANSFORMATIVE CONTEXTUAL presentation of homosexuality.

    HOMOsexual is defined primarily (by definition of the word) as same sex sexual behavior. Yet it is also defined by personal sexual “identity”.

    If HOMOsexuals desire sex with the same sex, then why do they feign characteristics of the opposite sex?

    If HOMOsexuality is based on same sex mutual attraction and consummation, then why theatricalize heterosexuality?

    Why must the manifestation of HOMOsexuality concern itself with heterosexual distinctions?

    Today LGTB promoters claim personal “identity” with opposite gender sexuality; a man who identify so as a woman. Is this not primarily based upon hetrosexual gender distinction?

    Why cannot the promotors of homosexuality consider homosexuality on its own terms alone?

    Why must homosexuality be defined in terms of heterosexuality gender distinction, unless it’s promoters consider heterosexuality primary?

    The entire scam is blatantly exposed by the fact that it fundamentally contradicts itself as homosexuality is defined by same sex attraction AND “identifying” with opposite gender sexuality.

  35. The Tingler said: ” Here’s why race is important: misogyny is rampant in black culture, far more so than in ours. At the same time, black families are all matriarchal, matrilineal, led by single mothers, and black girls are the most promiscuous in our society. Is it a coincidence that, with this background, black male culture is so misogynist? Of course not. Families led by single moms = more misogyny. Their boys seek their masculine upbringing from older boys, as opposed to their fathers.”

    Wrong direction.

    Misogyny is not rampant in black culture. That is a hold out descriptive. It was truer 20 or more years ago, but definitely not in the past decade. It only appears that way due to characterizations in media, especially in popular music/music videos and movies.

    It is true that a disproportionate number of black households are now headed by women, and there is practically zero male influence, not even in the media. Kids are not being overly influenced by ” rap ” music as one would surmise, they ( men and boys ) are more influenced by women/single mothers.

    Black girls are not the most promiscuous in our society. I can see how you reach this conclusion, but the real life facts on the ground differ greatly. I’m not going to belabor this point because I’ve seen ” studies ” where a similar conclusion is reached ( and I called bullshit then too ), but neither I or anyone I know or have ever met has been interviewed for a ” study “. These studies are conducted mostly in the worst, poverty stricken areas in the black community. I always submit that if ” white culture ” was studied by going to trailer parks for results, things would look just as fucked up.

    As far as the ” most promiscuous ” thing goes, as a man that’s traveled this entire country, and judges people by how they act and present themselves, No one ” race ” has cornered any market in promiscuity. Western culture is one of high degrees of promiscuity.

    But, lack of real world experience only leaves ” studies ” to use as reference. If Kevin Powell wasn’t such a huge piece of shit, he’d take up THAT cause.

  36. “I merely did what other young males on my campus did: I had sex as casually as I slipped on my jeans and sneakers, and often did not give much thought to the woman on the receiving end.”

    This is a lie. He never did this. If he did actually do this, he would have never ended up at the mercy of a woman controlling his emotions, and consequently chucking her into a door.

    The more girls I sleep with, the more the red pill sinks in. Guys who do have a variety of sexual experiences understand this kind of shit inherently, and are much less likely to pander to women’s imagined needs. Unfortunately, they are few and far between.

    I was an officer in the Navy, and one of the few single ones. I did single differently than any officer in the Navy. I spun plates, and was shameless about it. Many times I would hear this sentiment, “You know, I did that stuff too, but I do not miss my single days.” Lies. They never did. If they did in fact have those experiences, they would not be shacked up with the dependapotomuses they are indebted to.

    Most men lie about their sexual experience. I do not know why, but I encounter it enough to know that if men really did have this sexual experience, they would not be saying shit like this chump.

    “Hey there young fella, I know you want to stick your dick in all these girls, but just know it will leave you empty and wanting more. (Although I never did it, but I know someone who has, but he also has not, and I am full of lies, but believe me anyways because the girl I am with does in fact suck my dick once a year and that is better than what I had before.)”

    I grudgingly agree that being blue pill works in a diminished fashion. It is much easier to be blue pill, and get that one girl who is FINALLY ready for you. Being red pill though, that shit takes some work. At 30, I am finally able to be 100% unapologetic about who I am as a man, and get laid on the regular. I did the same shit in college, but it was not as easy, because I was not the man I am today. This checks with the SMV chart. On the other hand, I saw enough blue pill dudes get a girl or two with much less effort than I was putting in. That is where Ms. Powell gets these stupid ideas.

    I bring this up to address where this kind of pandering stems from, failure. He never had those “casual” encounters. This is what drives me fucking insane. The whole “oh yeah, my casual sex days are over” is a crock of shit. But young men think that this is the case because that is what they head all too often. Therefore, young men never get to have that experience with women they need to have in order to better understand them.

    It is not the message that bothers me so much as the lies that precede the message. The lies that he has had those experiences, and he “knows’ something different based off blatant lies. Fucking makes me sick…

  37. @Rocket: “… LIFTING increases T Level naturally.”

    So does hitting a heavy bag, shooting big guns and eating what you killed. It’s the physical manifestation of “fake it till you make it.”

    Make yourself:

    http://www.bobbiecarlyle.com/images/Carlyle_SMM_sky.jpg

    @Scribbler: “Whereas if you treat the young woman like she’s exceptional in being appropriate for an older guy it’s like conferring status on her . . .”

    We haaaaave a winner!

    I’ll repeat myself, but there is one neg that not only works, but turns her response up to 11:

    Remove age from your language. She is conditioned to view age difference as a disqualifier. Phrase things entirely in terms of her maturity compared to yours. She will be triggered to prove that she is so ready to come out and play with the grown ups.

    Your status as the prize will be enhanced and she will become desperate to qualify herself to you.

    Nothing winds up a teens to early 20s girl more than the suggestion by an older man that she can’t have him because she’s still just a child.

    And then when you deign to accept her, her feeling of status will be enhanced as something she fought for and won. She’ll literally get high on it for a while.

  38. And the church crowd goes wild, lol. Listen, you are welcome to your own mythology, just not your own facts. Fyi, religion reflects social mores much more than they create them. They reinforce things for sure, but to believe that a reversion to regressive Christianity is necessary for our society to be whole again is to miss how fucked up Christianity was and is.

    I’m sure many of you believe that our classical liberal republic would not have arisen were it not for Christianity, but that’s just because you mostly listen to too many fucktards like Glenn Beck and David Barton.

    Here’s a nugget for the “faithful” here to chew on. The current spurt of growth starts as a consequence of the enlightenment in many ways. And of course, the enlightenment was the rise of reason over faith. It was the presumption of limits on what govt and kings could do in the name of God and country. It was the rejection of living for the benefit of another life you were to win. Think about it, what does “the pursuit of happiness” mean, and what is it doing in our founding documents? It’s nothing short of an embrace of humanist values, not divine ones. The Enlightenment and classical liberal values arise in large part to push back against the authority of clerics and the state and makes room for civil society in which men form their own way.

    If you know the history, you’ll know the statism and totalitarianism of our Puritanical founders was a disaster and not liberal, whereas the view of religion and liberty espoused by Roger Williams won the day, which was a view of a society that was secular, not controlled by the religious. Yet so many fundo Christians claim the very founding of the U.S. for Christianity.

    @Adsgamer – Get in line with NBTM for ZFG. Rejecting atheism as though you aren’t the one’s who believe in mythology, please. How simultaneously arrogant and ignorant.

  39. @ Rocket

    BROUGHT UP THE T-Test. I asked what my level was and he said 130. And looked at me. I said, is that good/bad or what … cause I had no idea. He said the normal range is like 300-500.

    The normal range depends on the lab from what I have read on WebMD.

  40. Re: Kevin Powell

    He was first seen on MTV’s Real World in the 90’s. From what I recall, he was a very emotional dickhead in the show, brooding and sulking and routinely flying off the handle. Hallmarks of a boy raised by a single mother.,

    He grew up in my state of New Jersey, a mere 20 miles or so from where I spent my developmental years, in Jersey City. Sections of Jersey City were hardscrabble in those days. Project towers and welfare/section 8 acceptance made these areas bastions of single mother households.

    This is the scoop on what makes Kevin run from a man who has watched this phenomenon grow over the past 20-25 years.

    Guys like Kevin, raised by single moms, reflexively honor and praise them because they are relentlessly taught this from birth by the mother, aunts and grandmothers.

    Kevin to this day has a very poor understanding of what it means to be a man. All of his explanations about his examples are complete and utter bullshit.

    Men/boys like this act out in emotional, violent and ( what they believe as ) misogynistic ways. It is an act that sometimes becomes internalized but never understood.

    I was raised to compete with other men. The competition was respectful at all times. ” may the best man win ” was the order of every day. In my neighborhood ( which was HUGE ), there were about 25 of us who were close as brothers. We inherited our ” hood ” from the older generation. It was our duty to protect and nurture as young men.

    We produced 2 Rangers and 3 82nd airborne paratroopers. 1 doctor and unfortunately 2 lawyers…sorry bout that… and a bunch of hardworking middleclass guys.

    In my group, growing up, there were 2 boys without fathers. Both fathers had died early on. That vacuum was filled by older men in the neighborhood, uncles and cousins.

    It appears that Kevin had no such influences. He can point to ” music ” and any other bullshit he’d like, but the bottom line on this fucking clown is that he is a weak motherfucking mama’s boy who is hopelessly confused. Nothing he says now, or ever has said in the past means anything at all. That MTV show made him a temporary pseudo star 25 years ago, and he has desperately tried to hold on to some modicum of notoriety.

    This bullshit article by him is just the last incarnation.

    Good news? Nobody is paying attention to him, no matter how many talks he gives or how many articles he writes. Fuck him. He’ll get some buzz for a month or two, get a few gigs at colleges on the back of his writing this latest festering horseshit, he’ll write another book and use it to leverage more college gigs.

    This guy is a fake poser.

    He’s but a leaf in the wind, because no man has ever given him roots. He is much like the posing tattooed thugs roaming the inner cities today spreading murder and mayhem, emotional byproducts of single motherhood, with large caliber handguns and hissy fits.

    Misogyny is not rampant in the black community. Confusion about life and sexuality definitely is. The closeted ” gay thuggism ” courtesy of single motherhood is more apt in describing the machinations of a Kevin Powell. Always stepping away from masculinity in it’s true form, like a little bitch.

    This, my brothers here at TRM, is what awaits everyone if a full bodied Matriarchy come to pass. Bitches like Kevin are just canaries in the coal mine.

    I’m a loving, peaceful man, but I swear to God I could choke the living shit out of Powell right this second.

    Woooo-Saaaahhhh……

  41. @SJF

    Not sure what the attack was about. You didn’t like that fact that there may actually be a biological component to blue pillers, white knights acting the way they do ?

    Its a fact known by medical professionals that T Levels in men have been declining at the same time 2nd and 3rd wave feminism has been taking over (since the 1970s). Coincidence ?

    As I said I don’t know why or if its even known why. But it is … that much is a true. It could be as simple as adding something to drinking water, widespread use of plastics, or some chemical commonly added to foods. Again just speculating that perhaps one reason why natural diets, Paleo, juicing, etc have good results is that by avoiding processed foods you avoid the particular chemical that lowers T. So you feel better, healthier, and have more energy … result of heightened T … without knowing that’s why. Again pure speculation. Oh there has been speculation for years that hormones/chemicals added in agriculture … like to cattle to encourage weight gain is passed to humans as a side effect when they eat the resultant beef. One of the reasons for Whole Foods and the whole organic movement ? Again speculation … as I said I don’t know why just seems plausible that something could be causing it and its not just lifestyle/obesity.

    I will also say that given my own particular case as an example, managing T Levels in a male is very tricky business. There are diet and exercise components but its not so easy. I was not terrible overweight when my T Levels were 1/3 of “normal” and they didn’t know why it was so low and still don’t. I am on T injections 2x per month and each shot is on the high side (2 ml) and my T Levels have gone up to “normal” I am not overweight and work out fairly regularly … 5-10, 195lbs; in case I didn’t mention it … I’m 54. And always have been active … even when my T-Levels were at the rock bottom. I have not suffered any side effects like acne, reduced hairline, or anything like that either. I will say that my sex drive has increased to what it was when I was a younger man. And as others have said, it makes you have more backbone and less tolerance for bullshit. You stand up for yourself and call a spade-a-spade much more than I would have a few years ago. But overly aggressive, picking fights or anything like that ? Nope. Not for me.

    Rocket

  42. @Rollo – thank-you for the reply (and the link). I have already read most of your articles but it is good to go back and re-read some of topics for which I have difficulty. For me the difficulty is:

    – When I was a very young guy I did have quite a bit of interest from girls that would tend to gush over me. I mostly just couldn’t bring myself to hook-up with them. This gushing would turn me off. I would think to myself – “where is your self-respect?”. This “training” (family upbringing) I got for seeking the egalitarian I guess took hard with me. If I don’t sense that is what is going on (mutual respect) I start getting turned-off and I bale. Well before I was married, I had a great girlfriend at one point who always deferred to me, was always about pleasing my sexually as much as she could – you would think it was all good – but I started to lose attraction – it was the way I interpreted her acquiescence, that she wasn’t respecting herself enough and so that somehow mindfucked me into starting to believe that she was low value, when in fact she was not. So I broke it off with her.

    – Most of the relationships I have had have been with women that show what I have interpreted as having some self-respect (they show interest but don’t gush). But they are much harder to get. You actually have to pursue them. So I did that and got them. I married one of these (but divorced now as mentioned in my post above).

    – I assume I am operating within an egalitarian-complimentarian frame with these women. The women who quickly show this is not on (they get bitchy, or cunty) – I drop. The others that seem to abide by this frame – I keep. But inevitably, at some point, I am faced with the observation that something just isn’t right – the woman gets stupidly unhappy (you know – behaves like her feelings are of primary importance, when they obviously are not, but she just won’t change her mind about this, and will probably go on to cause some stupid drama, which just seems to be some stupid manipulation to get her way – to make it about her “feels”). This is frustrating and I want to understand what is going on but no matter how I try to turn in around, or instead try to see it her way, nothing really makes sense or reaches a satisfactory resolution.

    – The redpill advice, I think, is that everything I said in my post above where I said “right?” – the redpill advice would be to say – “Yes – correct” (or am I going to far?)

    – So I have to drop the expectation for the egalitarian. Now what? I need to see women as good for stroking my ego, and fucks only, and to continue to get that I need to stroke her narcissism?

    – I try to look at it that way, and then after awhile I realize that I am not feeling good about the world again, and am really getting jaded again. I want more and I think I deserve to get it (all I want is mutual respect with appreciation for the sex differences – I don’t need my ego stroked and don’t want it, and I don’t want to have this ridiculous task of stroking someone’s narcissism), but it just isn’t available, is it?

    – If this is the way it is, I might as well just permanently forget about any long-term relationship for my future, and just start gaming the ladies, instilling the gush where I can, getting my rocks off, and then dumping when it gets weird, to proceed to next. What a jaded way for a mature (56 year old) man like myself to carry on.

    – I do realize that my upbringing has a lot to do with this. My dad was the man. He died suddenly when I was 19. My mom was gaga for him (she never remarried). I have brothers and sisters as well. Our parents behaved as if it was an egalitarian/complimentarian relationship. The “gushing” my mom had for my dad was hidden behind this facade, by way of my mother submitting to a very strong religious devotion, for which my dad supported her in, because he could see that was the best pragmatic approach for him – she gets to sublimate her submission, he gets a wife that is devoted to him without being weird about it – (my dad didn’t want or need his ego stroked either). To me religion as practiced has too large an element of coercion to it, so I choose not to partake of that (I see a missing element in a religious woman’s level of self-respect, a sacrifice of agency by way of psychological submission, and that turns me off). But the redpill seems to indicate that that is how all woman are – they need to submit to something (turn-off)!

    – Rollo – am I fucked? Or am I still just too dense and not getting something? I hope I am not out of line if I ask you a really personal question – does Mrs. Tomassi see the relationship with you as having an egalitarian component to it, and if so, are you gaming her with respect to that?

  43. Rocket,

    No attack on my part. On the other hand I don’t claim to not understand. My bias is that yes there are exogenous and environmental factors that may play a role, but there are also endogenous factors that can be controlled.

    I simply don’t subscribe to a mindset that it is all exogenous. Nor that because diet and exercise components are not easy, that they are not controllable. Nor that it is a conspiracy. (No doubt it is a chicken and egg conundrum.) I don’t doubt for a minute that male shaming and societal attempts at masculinity shaming is to play in globally decreased levels in men. It is well recognized that mindset and posture have temporal effects on spot levels of testosterone (research wise).

    Like I said I didn’t know you.

    And I am most certainly not arguing against higher testosterone levels (the most potent hormone ever). You certainly don’t have to convince me that you yourself won’t have horrible acne or uncontrolled aggression. You won’t

    My level was low a couple years ago. I doubled them by this spring by diet, weightlifting, and stress reduction (part of the stress reduction was actually red pill awareness and game). I’ve slacked off on weightlifting this past 6 weeks and can tell they are not optimal right now.

    We’re on the same side here.

  44. ” . . . 5-10, 195lbs . . .”

    Which says pretty much nothing. I have a friend. 58 years old. Played league football seriously until he was 50. Broad and rugged frame. Runs 5k twice a week. Bangs out up to a thousand push ups a day. Benches 1 1/2 times his body weight no problem. His body weight for reps. He doesn’t have low T.

    He also hasn’t seen his belt buckle for years. Neither has anyone else. He wears it underneath a fold of his “stomach” so he can pretend that he still has the same pant size as when he was 21. Thinks he isn’t fat because he still works out, even though he’s obviously obese on sight.

    Pics and/or honest waist circumference, or I have to assume you’re as body dismorphic as he is. Overweight at the least and possibly even obese.

    But if you’re built like Steve Reeves, I’d be delighted to hear it (although from a medical standpoint you might still be classed as overweight, as the medical standpoint is based on risk factors).

    I’m not attacking you, I’m attacking what may be a false body image so that you may have a true one to work from.

    And if it doesn’t apply to you, it will apply to most of the peanut gallery.

  45. @theasdgamer
    Why are atheists trolling their 5h1t on the site owned by a Christian? Bad manners. Cease and desist.

    Last I checked, the site was owned by a guy who wants an open forum for all ideas, regardless of their origin. That will in many cases include gnostic and agnostic atheism. Not quite sure why this is upsetting you now seeing as there are a lot of openly non-Christian commenters like myself here and have been for a while.

    We’re obviously able to overlook the religious beliefs of someone and instead consider their ideas on intellectual merit. You should try it.

    1. @Blaximus
      http://www.dorislessing.org/thecleft.html
      Being a male in society seems like a threat from birth. I’ve always craved learning how as a child growing up and was caught with the wrath of women’s demands and imperatives. for a time before I found The rationale male I think I perpetrated the same hate and disgust for my own species and gender. I got seriously abused in many levels by women and girls and observed game but never “played”. Had a large amount of mix messages for every social convention known to modern society.

      To get over that it took a lot of work and still does. But being around men who don’t criticize complain or condemn is rare. I craved that as a teenager my school and social circle at church where all about relating to the feminine.

      I’ve learned to let go of ever being able to completely get passed all the mental anguish. I run went on a 20 mile run yesterday with 3 male friends.

      I’m learning and I’m very much socially retarded. But I’m willing to bet that anyone who has to sell anything for attention and critique
      Has their own agenda that may not be the best for your male development.

      @Rocket
      “And as others have said, it makes you have more backbone and less tolerance for bullshit. You stand up for yourself and call a spade-a-spade much more than I would have a few years ago.”
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YwpLFHNgyiA

      @Wildman
      Man that some interesting insight.

      @kfg
      Being fit is relative I wonder about T count and serotonin levels.

  46. Blaximus on Kevin Powell
    He was first seen on MTV’s Real World in the 90’s.

    That dude? THAT dude? Well, that explains pretty much everything. Thanks for clearing away the smoke and fog, making things clear.

  47. @Rugby: I didn’t directly address the issue of fitness. Indirectly I illustrated that medically it is a separate issue from weight, which was the subject.

    And I’ll further note that “health & fitness” have become a single term, although they are actually separate, fitness often coming at the expense of health.

  48. From SJF:

    “@KFG and Roused:
    “You sound like a perfect candidate for reading Jack Donovan’s The Way of Men.”
    Good pickup KFG. I would be disappointed in Roused if he didn’t read that book ASAP. In its chapters he will find a way for him to relate to and redeem his son even if he never speaks of it’s contents to him, but leads him with it’s descriptive format. It does not contain much of a prescription, but he can easily format one for his son’s circumstances.
    Roused, do you foresee your son developing the four tactical virtues to be better at being a man in the current Hivemind? Those being Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honor (among men)? Then get reading it.”

    Thank you for the prod SJF, just a moment ago got the e-edition and looking forward to digging into it.

  49. Masculinity in “crisis”

    Masculinity isn’t in crisis – it’s what the Feminazi’s are trying to pass off as “masculine” that is a crime. I learned long ago to be everything that you hear a man shouldn’t be. As a guy that started banging older women, I saw their husbands trying to be Alan Alda, and I swore I would never be like that limp-wristed idiot. As I’ve gotten older I have become everything men are told they shouldn’t be – women are for my pleasure, I hunt, fish, camp – take women when I want to wake with a bang and have someone to try to cook the fish I catch (although I’ll clean them) and usually have to show what-passes-as-a-woman-these-days how to cook a fish over an open fire…

    There should be articles about “femininity in crisis” as most women try more and more to be mini-men – which is fine, they still have p*ssies, and that’s all I need from them, but that is all women are these days – walking snatch. They gave up on being women, when they started trying to make men into women.

    No thank you. I’ll be the Neanderthal that women love, although they don’t admit it. That’s probably why I do so well with women, I don’t try to act like a boy, of a feminized man – I am a testosterone stick, and I see no reason to try to be something I’m not. Men built this world, we made it work, and women and liberals have been trying to f**k it up ever since. I’ll keep being everything the Feminazi’s hate, and the liberal media says a man shouldn’t be. I like having more than one woman to service my needs, and never date a women more than half my age. The reason is simple – because I don’t have to.

    So Powel can shove his ideas up his a**, where he probably likes to have a lot of things… Me, I’ll enjoy women till I’m dead, then the world can burn for all I care.

  50. @Just Saying

    “I’ll enjoy women till I’m dead, then the world can burn for all I care.”

    Troof right there. I don’t give a shit about guys who say there’s a “right” way to get pussy. They can keep their mortgage payments and blueballs the 80% of the time the girl isn’t down to fuck. I wish everyone the best of luck and would prescribe that getting as much pussy as possible will cure your depression and anxiety. Read the fucking mystery method, bang escorts, hang out at strip clubs, whatever. I don’t want to be the 80 year old guy on an oxygen tank saying I “earned” getting ten pussies the “right” way… rather than the guy who didn’t give a fuck about shaming and banged hundreds. Bang away gentlemen.

  51. @Andrew,

    I picked up on Powell’s (paraphrased) “I was typical. Having my way with beautiful women for years…” Whatever he said elicited the same response in me; “Really?” So the guy’s crisis grew more acute the more he got what he wanted from women? Yeah, right. No guy swimming in good tail goes headlong up his own ass in introspection. It’s just the opposite. His whole write-up is a fraud. The beginning especially is a straw man (I think someone’s already made that observation, I’m sure). Now that I know it’s that insufferable dude from MTV all bets are off anyway. Actually, I watched that show maybe 7-10 times, I think. I don’t remember him hooking up with anything.

    @T-Levels,

    Lifting for sure but be careful about recovery. Lifting and low calorie diets would not do much for long term T-levels, I think. Shuttle runs are my medicine. ‘Blood baths’ I call them. I do them to exert my heart as the muscle it is, not to burn off calories. So I do 6-7 intense shuttles and call it good. It’s the kind of exercise that coaches used to torture you with. Brief shuttles that make your heart work extremely hard, recover, do another one. Get the heart working in bursts so intense that it blurs your vision. This is what blasts your arteries clean, burns fat and actually maintains arterial flexibility. Keep the pipes clean and the body fat low. Don’t just keep piling meat/fat onto your frame with weightlifting. I am a weightlifter too.

    Low, global T levels….increasing global obesity levels….Hmmmm….How many men post 25 actually get out and run? Run that is, not jog. A guy who sprints and does compound lifts is on a whole other planet than guys with 35% bodyfat, who never exert their heart and eat crap.

  52. @Forge the Sky

    Thanks for your comments. When with a non-bitchy or non-cunty woman, the lays really haven’t been a problem or costly (but I can’t say that about the bitches and the cunts – with them there is a direct relationship between the lays and everything else. It is best to cease such a relationship as quickly as possible and learn, so as to avoid this type of woman). But with a more normal woman – no – the sex is the sex, to be enjoyed by both, and not directly tied to anything else but perhaps indirectly tied to her feelings, in the sense that if these feelings start going weird that can eventually affect the sex, but I don’t get the feeling like it is done that way intentionally by a normal woman.

    Now that I have written out more about my problem (2nd post above), which has been a helpful exercise, I have realized that it is really that I think I deserve to get a partner that doesn’t need the “feeling-babysitting” because I don’t need the ego strokes. I just want a female “adult” to partner-up with but I am finally coming to the conclusion that females are not as adult as a healthy mature male. I know that sounds misogynistic, and that is why I try to find a way to see it differently, because I don’t want to feel like a shitlord asshole. But maybe I just need to suck it up, and be the shitlord asshole. Fuck this is confusing.

    I’ve also just now (since writing the 2nd post above) realized, for the very first time, that a cynical way of looking at my upbringing is to frame it like my dad (who was “the man”, but showed the children and the world the very principled “egalitarian-complimentarian”), was actually gaming my mom to mold her submission into something that was useful to him. I’m not really sure if he was conscious of doing that or not, but if he was, then damn, there is another dimension to him being “the man” that I didn’t even see until now. Fuck! He was religious too, but not at all like my mom. For him it was a tool to be used by him as a member of the culture at large, to uphold the western virtues, the western cultural principles. He saw himself as a man, to have a natural duty in this respect. So he may not have been all the conscious about how nicely all this fit in, in such a way that it was useful to control the “in-loveness” condition that my mom had for him (she seemed to sublimate alot of that crazy emotion into a deep religious devotion – I was raised Catholic). I was born in 1959, and back then, the kind of relationship my folks had could actually work. For me, I can see that the religious “gaming” that my dad probably just adopted as it was very available option to adopt at that time, won’t work for me. I really cannot reconcile myself as accepting as anything but wrong, the deep level of personal-agency-sacrifice that my mom has just given away so she can feel good. I really hate that (but I love my mom). The Church is complicit in this dynamic.

    @Rollo – you know there may be a lot of babyboomer men, in their ’50’s that are confused and jaded the same way I am, because of similar upbringing. If you have any advice for me around this I would appreciate hearing it.

    @Forge the Sky – when you said:

    “Egalitarianism’ is an ideal used to gain power. If you want power, claim you’re oppressed then appeal to equality. You’ll be given more power soon enough after that”

    I don’t know what you mean? I don’t feel oppressed and I don’t want to dominate anyone (but I don’t want anyone to dominate me either). I feel misunderstood (by the women I have had, and even by women acquaintances and family members). Then I wonder if my feeling of not being understood is my fault (like I’m missing something or not adopting the right attitude).

  53. When I searched for replies to my post, I was genuinely terrified about possibility of the, not uncommon, reaction on TRM comments to incels that they are pussies, losers etc. I no realize that the 40 year old virgin fact may have seemed like a troll. It’s just a coincidence that they made a movie with that name. In a sense, I am somewhat relieved because skepticism is better than ego bruising, if ostensibly beneficial, derision. As to being clear headed, well you need to understand that although porn and the occasional lap dance may be cheap substitutes for sex, at least, they keep you from going insane. Also, how do you reconcile the fact that, throughout history, celibate heterosexual priests have been charged with dispensing simple clear headed feedback in virtually all societies and cultures. Removing oneself from the battle for sex and reproduction, i.e. removing oneself from fighting the battles ones own terms and being an observer has its admittedly meager compensations.

    Guys, this notion that adult male virginity is now rare, on the planet as a whole, is an American cultural notion. To be sure, it can be a painful condition. However, in some countries, it is nowhere near as rare as many Americans imagine. Just go to India or even China I guess. You will literally find millions of them. India, at least when I grew up, was and to a lesser extent still is, socially conservative. The majority of Indian men in my generation remained virgin until marriage. Marriage usually was, and probably still is, how the majority of Indian men and perhaps women lose virginity. That is true even in cosmopolitan cities. The US was probably like that in 50s and before. Apart from social conservatism, critical demographic factors such as the low female to male ratio and socially enforced marriage patterns within communities play a great role. That’s why, many of us simply didn’t get married and remained virgin. My generation is the most affected because the preference for boys was at an absurd peak during the decade that we were born. Please see the link below. Btw, a ‘crore’ is ten million and a lakh/lac is hundred thousand.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Forced-bachelorhood-for-4-12-crore-men-in-country-as-brides-go-missing/articleshow/46999330.cms

    Those of us who are picky and attracted only to quality, feminine women or those, like me, who are also shy and don’t want kids on top of that, find that they don’t have quality options at all for sex and marriage. Prostitution is illegal and STDs are rampant among prostitutes. Most men don’t even consider visiting prostitutes. Call girls are expensive and again nebulous as well as illegal.

    After moving to the US at 21, the problem was different for me. I had several marriage options, with agencies here etc., even better, I had lots of good options if I had gone ahead with an arranged marriage with a girl from India. My career profile made it possible. But not wanting kids ruled out both options. As to casual sex, there are a multitude of American men struggling to get laid. Prostitution is illegal in United States too and risk-averse legal aliens don’t mess with the law. A shy Asian male, even with a slightly above average SMV, is fighting very heavy odds. Also, in my experience, casual sex rather than either LTR or marriage, with an attractive woman is much much harder to earn. Accurate numbers are hard to come by.

    That is partly the difficulty I struggle with when reading Rollo. Of course he is a pioneer, of course he is very smart and of course his heart is in the right place. However, I get the feeling that he vastly overestimates the helpfulness of the dissemination of ‘TRP’ knowledge, hypergamy etc. on a society wide scale in general. Yes, he does acknowledge that ‘unplugging’ is an ugly difficult business but the fact that he is still helping numerous people, especially veterans, makes his effort personally worthwhile to him. It is a different matter when it comes to making a dent in the society wide, or for that his reader base wide, numbers of men who can successfully make the transition to ‘positive masculinity’ or discernibly improved mating success. This is true even putting aside the stranglehold of FI and hypergamy on almost all civil and social institutions. The numbers guarantee it. First, women as a whole have similar mating preferences for the relatively ‘top’ males however you want to define ‘top’. Second, sexual social taboos for women and legal fairness for men are both things of the past and are also not likely to be seen in the foreseeable future. The latter is true in developed, and increasingly, in developing countries, Third, provisioning and protection are becoming irrelevant, if not obsolete, functions of male of the species. So the ‘average male’ has almost nothing to offer to the reasonably attractive female apart from, otherwise easily available, economic support. It is simple supply and demand. When it comes to good sex, the demand from males outnumbers its supply by nearly insurmountable margins simply because the average male is increasingly useless to even the low SMV, let alone high SMV, female.

    Accurately or not, I tend to think of the current state of affairs as simply a contemporary global manifestation of the always present disposability of the male homosapien.

    I apologize that all this does not serve a productive purpose on this blog. However, unless posts are vetted for ‘self improvement value’ the ubiquity of the internet guarantees a steady stream of AFCs inarticulately struggling to express the realities of their personal experience.

    Thanks to lh for his perspective on my problems.

  54. @ leopard : the average male indeed has almost nothing to offer to the reasonably attractive female. That is a consequence of hypergamy.

    Become above average. And do it for yourself, not to offer anything to anyone (deities, females, parents – offer your self-improvement to yourself).

    If you aren’t sufficiently motivated for that, at least if you internalize RP knowledge you are better informed and can investigate alternatives.

    Even if it is impossible for you to become above average with a lot of effort, if you focus on self-improvement you will be better off.
    I do think it will be impossible for some people to reach above average, but that is just the way things are. On the other hand, with the way things are right now, for an average guy, becoming above average as far as SMV goes won’t be that hard because most guys are unknowingly playing by the wrong rules.

  55. Very good points above about Powell’s father being completely absent from his “understandings”.

    How about this?

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/10/neil-strauss-the-game-book-truth

    Came across that on a female friend’s fb post recently..

    I wonder if Strauss has fully understood the true nature of his problems either. I would be surprised if the really has turned beta, yet he doesn’t seem to discuss the reasons that caused his inner emptiness, lack of strength, outward seeking and the resulting addiction in the first place. Female readers (my friend included) are undoubtedly quick to jump into the conclusion that it was “twisted masculinity” that caused the problem, and that he was cured from it by “submitting to love”. It’s a huge shame if Strauss ends reinforcing that view, when he would be in the perfect place to clarify things with even women now listening to his words attentively.

  56. @Vitriol – Sadly, I’m with you now. I was a “nice guy” in my own way for 50 years (natural with Blue Pill conditioning) and it ripped my heart out, leaving me a self-loathing, broken wreck. Playing by the old set of rules will ruin a man in today’s world.

  57. @ Sun

    Because most people probably missed your reframing and shaming, I guess I need to point it out. I also lol’d at your acceptance of leftist anti-Christian propaganda, as if they are atheist ideas worthy of serious consideration and on topic. trollololol

    InsanityBytes doesn’t need to do anything to distract with your lot’s anti-Christian trolling.

  58. And IDGAF about MGTOW incels. If you have nothing to offer women, then you will be incel. Having something to offer women doesn’t mean that you are necessarily operating in the frame of women. Sex is transactional–men give something and women give something. It’s Red Pill to offer women something if you are getting something of value in return. You offer women something and they enter your frame. Win-win.

  59. @Leopard – With respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. You wouldn’t know game if it jumped in your lap and started humping you. Consider that you are rejecting what would help you become much more successful with women just because you like feeling like you are right – a pathetic, self-defeating exercise in mental masturbation with no real payoff.

    Do these four things and I guarantee you mindset will change:

    – Go to the top of this page and read Rollo’s “Best of …” posts from start to finish.
    – Read Jack Donovan’s “The Way of Men”
    This should jam the Red Pill down your throat finally.

    Then read YaReally’s comments from start to finish:
    http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/3/#comment-heartiste-654207 – That’s random spot, start anywhere, but the earlier the better.

    Then read “The Game” by Neil Straus (sp?).

    Then get back to us. Get this, you are not unique, we get the occasional righteous incel trying to sort us with some regularity. I guarantee you can do better with women than you do – you reek of Blue Pill and FI informed thinking and mindset. I guarantee you do everything wrong.

    Your ideas about how liberating asexuality can be are horseshit. For every celibate man you can cite who contributed to humanity, I can list 1000 men who were pussy mongers who contributed as much or more. Priests? Celibate? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Many, many priests don’t remain celibate, and many leave the priesthood due to being unable to handle celibacy. The supposed “pedophile” crisis in the U.S. Roman Catholic church was actually a gay “ephebophilia” cult encouraged and designed by homosexual men who took over numerous monasteries and high church positions. The focused on recruiting young, gay males to be priests and let homosexuality be an open secret in their communities. Their sexual transgressions were in more than 90% of the cases male priests having sex with sexually mature, teen boys – ephebophila. Having sex with sexually mature but still under the age of majority teens is nothing like pedophilia. It’s a social stricture that is relatively new in human history whereas having sex with pre-pubescent children has always been considered pathological and wrong. The entire episode has been mischaracterized by the press and those who speak about it. Certainly it was still morally horrifying but it’s best seen as a result of celibacy…

    If you learn nothing else from this, perhaps you’ll stop referring to priests as glowing reference points for being celibate in the future.

    And no, we don’t hate incels here. We just know that any man can improve himself and his social intelligence. If you are not getting laid, it’s in your control to change that, it’s not a plot to make you miserable.

  60. @Sun – Notice the infantile, hysterical quality of the response. “You have no facts” lol. This is standard Christian defensive rhetoric these days, to claim everything is a theory and nothing is knowable precisely, so their ideas are just as possibly true as anything else. It’s anti-intellectual in the extreme.

    But here’s what’s also true. There is no “debate” to be had with such folks about homosexuality or transsexualism (which I state is “hokum”). They see the world through the lens of sin and their mythological worldview.

    Funnily, they have much in common with the leftists they claim to hate in that they both believe homosexuality is socially constructed, and is therefore a choice of sorts. The actual science is damning to both views. And anyone who believes that homosexuality is a choice at this stage of the game is announcing they are fucking morons. Truly.

    People are allowed to be morons though. Just as I’m free to point out that they are so. There have been great twin studies on homosexuality as well – just do your own googling folks. Even worse for you ignoramuses is that homosexuality isn’t spread by values, and in fact it remains at a steady state in the human population over time, with males being 1-3% gay and females below 1% actual lesbians. It also occurs in other species and is “natural” in every way that word is true.

    What might surprise the fundo maniacs here is that this doesn’t mean I support gay marriage, or in any way make me a leftist, or make me think gay men should be Boy Scout troop leaders (any more than a hetero man should lead a group of nubile teen Girl Scouts for a week in the woods). Atheists are not necessarily leftists, and in fact many of us are libertarians of a sort. Me? I’m a “conservatarian” in that I embrace classical liberalism and do believe that culture and values matter. I just don’t want the state to attack any particular brand of them in the way our govt is on every level. I even understand that it was WASP culture that gave rise to our nation, but there is much more to that culture than just religion.

    Funny that someone would ask Rollo to boot me though, tells us everything we need to know about that nitwit, doesn’t it?

  61. ” . . . under the age of majority teens is nothing like pedophilia. It’s a social stricture that is relatively new in human history . . .”

    Little more than a century, originally only applied to girls and had nothing to do with contemporary ideas about consent.

    Then the feminists drove out the white knight moralists who had started the campaign to raise the age of consent and converted it to their own agenda; creating weapons against men.

  62. Following on my last comment, it’s Red Pill to change yourself so that you have something to offer women if you don’t want to be incel. That isn’t entering the frame of women. You aren’t giving women control of your life (i.e., submitting to the frame of women).

    I think that the confusion comes from ambiguity because of poor phrasing of the argument. We make changes to ourselves because we want to be more attractive to women. So some say that we make changes “for” women. If men think that removing the Blue Pill blinders and realizing how to act confidently around women so that men can have sex is somehow Blue Pill, then there must be an error in reasoning somewhere. We make changes so that we aren’t deceived anymore by FI brainwashing, which opens the door to reevaluating masculinity, which opens the door to behaving like free, masculine men, and that leads to sex.

    So, really, when we talk about making changes “for” women, we are really saying that men are changing themselves to walk in a masculine frame and that men walking in a masculine frame is attractive to women and gives men an option to have sex.

  63. “the average male indeed has almost nothing to offer to the reasonably attractive female. That is a consequence of hypergamy.
    Become above average. And do it for yourself, not to offer anything to anyone (deities, females, parents – offer your self-improvement to yourself).”

    My definition of above-average:

    My own mental point of origin.
    Pride and self-confidence. Acceptance of yourself.
    Sexual options. (whatever they may be for the individual man)
    Self sustaining debt only.
    V-shaped torso.
    Under 12% body fat. (goes with the v shape)
    Gang of male friends.
    Personal style.
    Income options. (either transferable skills with high demand or income producing business’ and/or investments)
    Game/applied social skills. (conscious use and manipulation of social skills and the various power dynamics that occur in interactions)
    Functional home base (your home)
    Enriches his character. (travel, books, history)

    The only thing I haven’t figured out yet is the spiritual side of myself, and serving my fellow man from a position of strength.

    In other words, don’t be a slave to:

    1. Women.
    2. Employers.
    3. Debt/big business.
    4. Poor health choices.

    The “average” man:

    Lives for women.
    No pride, no self respect. Hangs his head.
    Has few sexual options. Scarcity mindset.
    Pear shaped.
    20% body fat on average.
    Few male friends, if any. Xbox and TV are his buddies.
    No style, baggy clothes, tennis shoes for everything.
    Slave to his employer and/or industry.
    Denounces game.
    Women controls the home or he lives like a “bachelor”
    Again, Xbox and TV. Internet. Porn.

    I am closer to the average man than I am my ideal/goals. But goddamn it if I’m not taking the actions needed to get there.

    Thoughts on being above average guys?

  64. Scrib – “Me? I’m a “conservatarian” in that I..”

    I don’t known if you penned conservatarian, but I’m adopting it. I’ve always said I was a fiscal conservative but a libertarian on individual rights and government intrusion. Your summation is perfect.

  65. Whew, a lot of reading this morning.

    @HopelessHypergamy

    Just on the off chance you or others like you might actually exist. Here’s some advice. Don’t go back to #4 because you’ll lose respect for him for taking you back. Quit your job, let your husband take over your finances, stay home with the kids. Never say no to sex (from husband), give the guy a blow job every once in a while and make him a sandwich. That will most likely cure the Provider side of your hypergamy.

    As for the fucks side of hypergamy… Take some responsibility for yourself and use your brain. Don’t cheat, and if it isn’t the best, help the dude to make it the best. That doesn’t mean shaming and emasculation.

    1. @Andy

      Thanks for your thoughts and advice. I had already “retired” from my successful career with husband number 4 when I had my first child.

      Anecdotally, I enjoy sex for my own reasons (a lot) and pretty much never say no already. I attribute loving sex to the reason for one of my failed marriages (number 3 had too low a sex drive. We only had sex once every 14 days or once a month and I eventually hypergamied my way to number 4.) I certainly didn’t need better financial support at the time, so that one was all about the “d”.

      I have incredibly high testosterone, naturally. In my 20s, it was even tested in the 400s once, and my doctor joked that I had more Than than many teenage boys. Since I also had normal range estrogen, and periods, no doctor has ever tried to modify down my numbers. I have always attributed my past career successes, avid interest in a male dominated competitive hobby, and persistent high sex drive to my naturally high testosterone.

      I also guess that extends to why I so easily was always able to “trade up” with hypergamy. If you don’t take into consideration the hypergamy itself (Which makes me a terrible partner choice) I have always seemed like quite the catch.

      Anyway, I appreciate the advice on how to properly submit. I have been reading long enough to already have a pretty God idea on how to not fuck things up again on my side. I agree that my husband (all 5 of them) is beta. I don’t think I could get him to read Rollo’s books. He generally doesn’t read for pleasure, and he strongly believes (at what seems to be his core) that men and women are different, but equivalent. He doesn’t mind the role of provider, and took me on when I was already a stay at home mom, but most betas don’t, I guess.

      The challenge moving forward will be in getting him to build and maintain a frame. He is sexually *very* dominant (I have always been sexually submissive) and I have been thinking about how to launch from there for the rest of life. I wonder, though, if *I* concoct and scheme plans for him to build a strong frame for me to come into, am I still holding the power?

  66. And anyone who believes that homosexuality is a choice at this stage of the game is announcing they are fucking morons. Truly.

    Yeah, I just don’t understand this thinking unless there’s some sort of percentage of gay, and I happen to be 100% straight. I don’t want to be anywhere near some dude’s stank hairy asshole. I just don’t understand how anyone could think that’s a choice.

  67. @Adsgamer – We are better off if we just leave religion aside because you are good on many other fronts. We disagree and I don’t argue religion or God. You can call what I say propaganda until your head explodes, it only shows your ignorance. But let’s move on…

    What’s missing from the MGTOW/Incel “don’t give the power to women” shrieking is an acknowledgment of the power imbalance that is innate in human intersexual dynamics. Women choose and men compete for that choice. Men have much higher drives and appetites, we are bio-programmed to enjoy and crave sex much more than women are.

    Set in this reality, what is a man to do, given that women “choose up”? Giving up and just admitting defeat is understandable, but it’s not an alternate strategy nor does it change any of the rules of the game. It’s just giving up. You will still want sex. You will still be drawn to the curves and laughter of nubile women. Porn and strip clubs and hookers are all ways of getting those needs met, but each is woefully incomplete.

    A sentient man, grounded in reality and recognizing the “game” that all of life most surely is, will look for ways to win and better his outcomes. That is the only rational response to understanding the true nature of human intersexual relations. While it’s also true that not all men can be top 20%, many men can do much better in attracting and keeping women by understanding what makes them tick.

    When a man can’t or doesn’t or won’t see this now, I recognize he has a mindset problem and is stuck in Blue Pill land. He sees the current situ as somehow “wrong” and unfair. He sees himself as struggling mightily “to be a good person” and feels unappreciated for it. He embraces internally all this is as a failure which has been foisted upon him, despite “doing the best that he can”. All of it is buffering and such ideas are tools for the dedicated MGTOW/Incel to preserve the righteousness of his life and POV, even if none of it works to get him what he actually wants.

    Some MGTOW take this to ridiculous extremes, checking out of mainstream society utterly, living ‘off-grid’ – meaning living a subsistence – and bragging about it. They also shuck the burden of making money, of achieving social status other ways and being successful in life in general and cover all that up with more feigned righteousness. They want to be admired for wrapping themselves up in failure and giving up and in to social isolation and rage and hate, it’s just so sad. Many run into the anarcho-capitalist wingnut segment of the libertarian movement and claim moral justification for dropping out of society utterly based on the immorality of govt etc.

    It’s all so backwards and self-defeating. I get it, life is hard and it’s tempting to rage-quit – but that is just trying to sugar-coat loss. . What we say here is learn how to play the game better – for your own purposes. In many real ways, women are counting on men just giving up and sitting back while they run the field. A self-respecting, high value, aggressive and intelligent man is like sand in all their gears. Being thus we can defeat many of their dumbest plans and get laid. These MGTOW/Incels don’t realize they are aiding and abetting that which the decry by just abandoning the field utterly.

    Surrender to win, that’s the MGTOW & Incel motto. Lol. Wake the fuck up, guys.

  68. @Andy – Hypergamy’s journey is a one way trip, there is no undoing her mindset – she’s ruined. What she’s doing now is freaking out because she realizes it. But self-knowledge without actual change is not worth much. Many psychopaths have moments of lucidity and self-awareness – this means almost nothing.

    So many women like her out there, wrecking families and men and children and the social fabric around them. What she really needs is to be massively shamed for the harm she’s done via her irresponsibility. But where will that come from?

  69. @ Scribbler G

    In light of the thoughts you just wrote, go back and read the article that Inkwell October 26th, 2015 at 6:59 am referred to about Neil Strauss’
    latest book.

    I hold Strauss in high regard as a writer. He is really good at it. A discriminating reader can recognize excellent writing. (I have high esteem for ScribblerG, Rollo and Ian Ironwood as writers, they are simply excellent at putting words on paper. And have fantastically good content)

    Even though the FI will try to write their own narrative about Strauss, he is actually quite congruent and an excellent example of having insight into his own psychological problems and moving on to be better at being a man. He is actually not an apologist for game. It got him where he is now which is a quite a good place for a man. He seems at peace. He has conquered many of his weaknesses and screaming demons in the back of his mind. Good for him.

    The following are a few cherry picked paragraphs (disjointed) from the article that Inkwell linked to.

    It seems like we don’t allow for the possibility of change. But, I mean, we only learn from our mistakes, right?” Is that a word he’d use now for The Game – a mistake?

    Strauss says no. “I wouldn’t be married, or be here, if it wasn’t for the experiences of that book.” He says it’s more a case of coming to have a wincing fascination about some of its content. Feeling a healthy sort of shame. “Like, when you’re 10 years old, you’re embarrassed for running around outside naked when you were a five-year-old, right? And when you’re five, you’re embarrassed that you shit in your pants when you were one. I hope always to regret and be embarrassed by anything I’ve done five or 10 years earlier. I hope to regret and be embarrassed by this discussion five years from now. Because then I know I’m growing and changing.”

    By opening up his psyche to trained therapists for the first time, Strauss learned he had quite an assortment of mental and emotional conditions. In short order, he was diagnosed with anxiety syndrome, depressive disorder, two forms of sexual disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. “It was like a hammer hitting me on the head,” he says. “I really thought I was normal.”

    “Exactly. A lot of it was about men’s own fears. A technique to end up making out? You’re not going to make out with someone who doesn’t want to make out with you. It was more about being terrified of rejection, and getting over that. The techniques got him there. Not her.”

    Strauss acknowledges this might have been lost on some of The Game’s readers and adherents. Lost on a wider world, too. “It was really a book about scared men who were afraid of women. But then it became a part of the culture. And it became a reason for women to be afraid of guys.” He’s sad about that. “It was never meant to be an advocacy of a lifestyle, even though it’s come to symbolise one.”

    The goal now is really to be OK with yourself, to not need anything else. And maybe once you’re OK with yourself, you can see people as they are, without them having to give commentary on who you are or what your status is.”

    “The way I think about it is that you go through passages and stages of life. And the question is, can you keep growing? Or are you going to get stuck somewhere?”

    Strauss is no sellout, although mainstream media will try to paint him as one. He is one smart motherfucker of a writer.

  70. @ scribblerg

    My friend summarized it really well the other day through some sarcasm. He started talking in a funny voice and said something like this:

    “Hey guys, I’m MGTOW. Are you looking? Do you see how MGTOW I am? What do you mean you don’t care? Look at me going my own way. Are you looking? What do you mean you don’t care that I’m going my own way? How am I supposed to be MGTOW if no one recognizes me as MGTOW? Where’d all of you go? Hello? Are you listening to my MGTOW podcast? Hello?”

    Lol.

    Meanwhile I’m working as hard as I can to build my business up and learning more about Game/intergender dynamics the hard way: being actively involved in it, i.e. being sexually involved with women.

    There’ve been lots of ups and downs with the girl I’ve been seeing, and I have a lot to learn. Just like the business I’m working on.

    It isn’t easy. Been more than a few times just over the past couple months that I felt like pulling my hair out, and plenty of restless nights.

    But guess what? I had a lot of that — even more — when I was isolating myself in rage quit mode. The difference is that the current stress I’m facing is **forcing me to grow** while the stress I had while isolating myself was simply killing me slowly while I stagnated.

    With every stress I endure now, I feel like I’m developing my skills and growing as a man — day by day, into an actual man that I want to be, that I’m proud to be. My reward for pushing through the rough spots is learning more about myself, being more secure in myself and developing and evolving to another level every day.

  71. Hypergamy’s journey is a one way trip, there is no undoing her mindset – she’s ruined.

    I agree that it’s highly unlikely she’ll ever be happy. But at least maybe she can prevent herself from fucking up again and making the best of the situation.

  72. @kfg – Thank-you for the link. The link you provided, for the article in the MasculinePrinciple blogspot, really nicely sums up everything I eluded to in my above posts, which I have garnered from reading Rational Male (mostly), and Chateau Heartiste (a more cynical take), applied to my own experiences.

    So for me I guess the take away has to be – don’t view it as cynical, view it as what is, is. It is the social conditioning (and the signalling of women in general), that paint it as cynical. I have to shut that influence off completely somehow (because it keeps sucking me back in). I already know that an empirical observation of the social data around me constantly signals that I have better tools (or at least a better propensity for using them), than women, for seeing (or perhaps seeking) the bigger picture (as long as I don’t include women’s specific views on this topic as one of the empirical data-points, and treat discourse around the primacy of the Feminine Imperative in the same way). I should just stop looking for empirical data for the missing link (i.e – the women’s contribution to an uncovering of the larger perspective, which if I consider the possibility of, I have to admit that I am blind to, as I have said in my posts above). If I just finally accept there is nothing there to consider, then I will stop going around in circles. Before I leave this train of thought though, one things that occurs to me is:

    – maybe women do contribute to an uncovering of the larger perspective that I seek, but only indirectly, by way of a man trying to appreciate the woman’s more narcissistic vantage point, and then using that data point, as one of the many perspectives to consider, within his own system of abstraction?

    What do you think – am I still just wish-spinning if I consider this approach? I think I sort of try to do it this way too, but constantly get led astray (it is a minefield to proceed as such). Maybe that is what Rollo is doing with the Rational Male writing and that is why I sense it is less cynical? But then, if that is the case, the point he is trying to make is subtle, and I have to admit I am still not grasping it. Also I noticed that on the MasculinePrinciple blogspot that you linked me to (which I see is extensive and I am going to undertake to read all of it now), that the yin/yang symbol was shown, implying I suppose, that it would still be incorrect to put “man” in the superior position, in the final analysis? But that doesn’t jive with what the article said?

    All this has also let me see that a big part of my problem is that I actually was missing a whole lot of overt (and even covert) signaling by the way I was brought up. As I have described in my last two posts above, though my brothers, sisters and myself were fortunate to have good parents, the way the religious paradigm was used by my parents caused the following conditions within the children:

    – it was very hard to see that my parent’s relationship was anything but egalitarian/complimenterian (i.e. – where I talked about my mom being gaga for my dad, I only figured that out much much later, by being exposed to the redpill, reexamining my youth, seeing that there were other possibilities for viewing my parent’s relationship, and then gently probing my mom about it and she has confirmed it – ie. – this dynamic was hidden, they were not open about this – I get the sense from talking to my mom that it is only now in her old age that she would even admit that it was that way, that she was gaga for him to such a degree that using the word “egalitarian” would be an inaccurate way to describe it, but that she still doesn’t want to think about it in terms otherwise, as that would spoil her memory of those times, and furthermore, back at the time I don’t think she allowed herself to see it that way – part of the mindfuck was that she believed at the time that she was in an egalitarian relationship, but I think it could be said, from the slight tells I recall when thinking of my father, that he knew what was what.). I have discussed this with my older sister, and she actually did perceive this as a child (about my mom being gaga but not admitting it), but she agrees it was hard to see (I think she was better able to see it because the daughter’s conditioning and the son’s conditioning were quite different in my family)

    – my dad was able to use the religious paradigm to download the “feeling-babysitting” that I alluded to, that he would have normally been subject to, onto the deep religious devotion my mom had (and still does have). So none of his children were shown how this worked, that this was even a thing, and what the practical methods of application would be. I have to admit now that I see this, that it is a big part of my problem. I don’t know how to do this very well, and when things get side-tracked in my relationships because of my lack of insight into this, I just get frustrated (usually I don’t acquiesce to it though and then that spells the end of the relationship, however for my 20-year marriage I did try and try but to no avail, probably because I didn’t have (and largely still don’t have) a clue about how to do this properly. I need to learn how to do “woman’s-feelings-babysitting”.

    Going through the exercise of actually writing this all down, in a forum of like-minded people (a forum where there are other people who may be paying attention to what I have written but probably won’t punish me for it), is actually turning out to be very therapeutic for me. Writing it down where others may see it seems to be more constructive than just talking about it because I have to be more disciplined with my thinking, when I commit my thoughts to the written word in this way.

    Rollo – I very much appreciate your website and this forum.

  73. Re: 40 year old virgin

    Granted it’s unlikely that this guy is telling the truth. However when you hear a person extolling the virtues of abstinence it would make sense that that person had never had sex before. lol.

    For the record Mr. Virgin. Sex is worth it. Go fuck that yoga chick.

  74. Also I noticed that on the MasculinePrinciple blogspot that you linked me to (which I see is extensive and I am going to undertake to read all of it now), that the yin/yang symbol was shown, implying I suppose, that it would still be incorrect to put “man” in the superior position, in the final analysis?

    @Wild

    I like you. About this quote I would say that what is or is not “superior” is subjective. Staying home, raising children and supporting a husband is not necessarily inferior. But I do agree in the sense that I believe very very few women ever have or will achieve the kind of greatness that will change the world or society. It just isn’t where ultimate happiness lies for them.

  75. @Scribblerg

    In one of Owen Cook’s recent videos, he was talking about the film ‘The Grey.’ I haven’t seen it, but (spoilers alert) it’s about a group of men who crash deep in the Alaskan wilds and find themselves in a hopeless quest for safety as they are pursued by a pack of wolves. He said that the interesting thing about the film was that it was a reflection of the human condition – none of us are ultimately going to ‘make it;’ there’s no hollywood ending. In the end, all of us are going to die. But each of the men in the film chose to deal with that fact in different fashions – some by giving up, some by choosing to contemplate nature and submitting to the wolves or cold as they came, some by fighting to the very fucking end.

    It’s just a choice each of us has to make. But I think those who give up are weak. They deserve compassion but not honor. Those that contemplate are not weak, but they live less vividly. Because they don’t understand one thing that only courage can teach you – that the fight itself is a vivid appreciation of the world as it is, a pushing against its boundaries hand to hand and tooth to throat, a feeling, a grasping, a looking all at once that is associated with a vivid arc of action and a flaming passion for the world as it displays itself in its fighting back.

    It’s like the difference between looking at a beautiful woman and appreciating her beauty from afar, and fucking her. Neither are bad, but who gets to see more of her? Who gets to feel the contour, hear her cries, learn the simple yet unique ways her body is transformed into arching, pulling kinetic force?

    I’ve found, finally, in the past few weeks, something that looks like myself. Devoid of all externally-imposed ideals and preferences. I’m not saying I have a clear picture yet, but there’s something there. It’s only when you see that that you can begin to make such core choices; before that, it’s all just attempts to feed your ego or display your quality for other’s approval.

    Here’s one thing I found: a few base ideals. I found that there were two things I found intolerable.

    First, killing a man without justice. Killing a man from anger, or incompetence, or because they happened to be born in a different country or under a different faith, is intolerable. Killing for the just reasons of self-defence or as carefully considered punishment for grave evil is honorable.

    Second, a cage. Caging or enslaving a man for any reason, unless it is to save his life (as he would otherwise kill himself unintentionally by committing grave evil) is intolerable. And any man caged this way must have the option of taking his own life, choosing death over chains.

    Society needs other ways to punish men for infractions than imprisoning him.

    And any governmental force that imposes unjust death or cages to any man is also intolerable. Imprisoning him for smoking weed. Enslaving him to a woman to support her bad choices. Many other things.

  76. @Wild Man

    It’s tempting just to let you write on. Putting all this down is catalyzing a lot of things for you.

    But there’s two things I think I can contribute, since I went through a similar struggle myself.

    First, my parents have a highly functional relationship that certainly appears to be egalitarian to any bluepill analysis. But I’ve had the benefit of still having them around after taking the redpill. And what I observe is interesting – they act egalitarian in normal, everyday interactions. But if a real issue hits, there is no question who is really in charge. I used to think that was just a competency thing, and it was to a degree, but I see now that my mother simply cannot abide the idea of running the show. She adores my father because she’s certain that, in whatever event, he will find a way forward. Also, my father has effortless game, can always laugh at himself (pure gold for passing LTR shit tests) and is successful financially and has massive social proof – without him, her position in life would be a shadow of what it is now.

    He calls her opinion forward in any major choice. But those major choices usually only exist as a product of his initiative – i.e, he develops a business vision and then asks for her input on it.

    He would be appalled at a redpill vision of masculine dominance. It’s all unconscious, and the bluepill perspective informs his conscious apprehensions (though I suspect he’s more redpill than he lets on – he’s let a few things slip from time to time, then seems embarrassed as he’s been taught that such thoughts are shameful).

    Second, you talked about how you found women who ‘didn’t have self-esteem’ – i.e. were submissive – a turn-off. I kinda ran into the same thing, I had a girl for a while who was really in love with me and she craved my dominance sexually. I didn’t know how to give it, and I found the thought appalling. I wanted a girl who could support me as I supported her, and here she was writhing to fulfill my every whim if I would only ask. I had difficulty even being aroused properly. But in retrospect, the dynamic wasn’t her submission turning me off – it was that my lack of enthusiasm for her submission, my lack of reciprocal taking, was creating an awkward and toxic dynamic. I was wanting something different from what she could give, and what my biology actually wanted. It quickly turns into a vicious cycle of both of you turning each other off, without any real idea as to why it’s happening. Conscious explanations did no good, they’re just rationalizations.

    Sex has to be visceral. You can’t bring any higher notions or ideals to it without ruining it. It’s like explaining a joke.

    Since then, I’ve removed my preconceptions about what I should find attractive and arousing, and I find that I actually respond very emotionally and viscerally to strong femininity and submissive behaviors. Not in any BDSM sense, mind. Just her vacillating to my frame and her revelling in my taking her when and as I desire.

  77. @ scribbler

    We are better off if we just leave religion aside

    Pray don’t stop the atheist circlejerk. I have faith that many found it damned droll. Ok, I jest.

    because you are good on many other fronts.

    Bear with me. I’m not good in the slightest, but I appreciate the sentiment and acknowledge our agreement.

    What’s missing from the MGTOW/Incel “don’t give the power to women” shrieking is an acknowledgment of the power imbalance that is innate in human intersexual dynamics. Women choose and men compete for that choice. Men have much higher drives and appetites, we are bio-programmed to enjoy and crave sex much more than women are.

    I’m going to get a little picky here in order to make things clearer. First, I think that things are a lot more complicated than simply men have higher sex drives. Let’s separate the “men” categories into alphas and betas. Alphas attract women. Women crave sex with alphas. Betas repel women, perhaps similar to the way that fuglies repel men. Hence, the libido of women is opportunistic. I suspect that women’s libidos actually can be higher than men’s. We never see men throwing our underwear at beautiful women, but women commonly throw their panties at rock stars. What we can say about men’s libidos v. women’s libidos is that men’s libidos are on almost constantly, while women’s libidos are opportunistic.

    Betas will see women as having low libidos, while alphas will see women as having high libidos. Regarding their libidos, women will say, “Not on all the time, but the intensity depends on the man.”

    Apex alphas have the most choice and fuglies and betas the least. Women have less choice than some alphas and more than betas and perhaps about the same as lesser alphas.

  78. Those that contemplate are not weak, but they live less vividly.

    I think they are weak, because they are afraid of diving in the fight that is life.

  79. “I wonder, though, if *I* concoct and scheme plans for him to build a strong frame for me to come into, am I still holding the power?”

    Yes. Even if he’d read them, I wouldn’t even buy him Rollo’s books. Because then his newfound frame would always seem to be something you did to him for your benefit.

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