The Quick Fix

quick_fix

Becoming the Captain of My Boat dropped this comment in the This is now thread (emphasis mine):

You know, I found the RP about a year and a half ago. I’ve been working on applying things to my life, and for the most part things are going well.

Most of the articles though are about what to avoid, what to look out for, or how to think about women when you’re in your 20’s. The difficult thing is now being aware and seeing it all around you and being married.

I see the Sandberg quote, I hear it all the time from women in one form or another, and then my wife says similar shit. Like she dated the assholes, or had to find herself. Now I’m like, shit, I’m the nice guy she married. I don’t want to be that guy.
I was the asshole in college, what the fuck happened to me and how do I fix it quick? But there is no quick, once you’re in this it’s an uphill battle, a necessary one, but an uphill battle none the less.

I read the Rational Male, I’ve read a number of the books, but it get’s tricky when you’re already in it.

My wife isn’t a terrible person, and I can see firsthand how all this applies to her, but she isn’t malicious. This is subconscious shit reinforced by all their surroundings. Hell, my own betaization was subconscious shit reinforced by my surroundings.

I can say without a doubt that if your’e not already in a LTR or married and you’re younger than 30-35 don’t get in one. Read this stuff, make yourself a better man, fuck around and “find yourself” then you can get into a LTR, because it’s much harder to take control of a ship and right the course with your now demoted wife psychologically kicking and screaming than it is to captain a boat from the get go and then find a hot, willing first mate along the way when you’re already a seasoned salty captain.

He can only speak for himself of course, but Captian’s situation is not an uncommon one. Far too many men discover too late that the great relationship they swore they had with their wives was founded on their having fulfilled a Blue Pill set of achievements.

This belief is part of the plan Hypergamy had intended for him to follow, but as women’s sexual strategy has become more visible (if not outright flaunted) to him he begins to see the code in the Matrix he’s been a willing participant of. The machinations of Hypergamy are unignorable, or soon will be, but it’s one thing to be single and young enough to be able to leverage that plan to your own benefit when you still have the options and maneuverability to do so – it’s quite another to become aware of your own participation in it once you’re committed legally, emotionally and familially to going along with the plan.

For men, one of the more unfortunate consequences of Open Hypergamy is the degree of comfort their wives have in revealing the part their husbands play(ed) in their sexual strategy. As I’ve mentioned in prior posts, in a previous social order it was simply a matter of course that women should keep the mechanics of Hypergamy secret from the men they paired with in the long term.

Amongst themselves women were (and are) very open and frank about their sexual exploits both in the short term sexual and the long term provisional. I’ve always been convinced that women’s insistence on proliferating the trope of men’s “locker room talk” or ‘Humble-Bragging’ about their sexual conquests is a distraction from their own peer clutch groups congratulating themselves on the successes of their sexual strategy.

In a prior social climate keeping these ‘hen house’ Hypergamous revelations to themselves made sense. There was little point to informing the men they depended upon for parental investment and security that they were really the best available option to be their means to an end.

Not so in the present social climate. There is an eager brazenness on the part of wives to openly explain the part their husbands play(ed) in her Hypergamy. I’d attribute most of this to a social climate that encourages women to believe they have nothing to lose by doing so, but there’s also a want to participate (even if vicariously) in the single-woman peer clutch that has openly embraced revealing the ins and outs of Hypergamy publicly.

It’s a rough transition for men to have their Blue Pill idealisms dispelled by the Red Pill community, but it’s far more devastating for men steeped in Blue Pill merit badge accomplishments to have their wives openly confirm what the Red Pill aware have been trying to awaken him to for some time.

Open Hypergamy isn’t just a game for single women; it’s made its way into contemporary marriages. It’s now part of the egalitarian equalist expectation of men in marriage – that in order for men to truly be men worthy of marrying a co-equal ‘modern woman’ he must dispense with any notion of ownership of her, forgive the worst of her Hypergamous indiscretions as part of her “finding herself” and then accept his role as the Plan B, Beta provider for her in the nick of time to help her fulfill her sexual strategy in the long term. All of this coming with no expectation of any reciprocal value on a woman’s part – in fact to believe so is tantamount to marital rape.

I see the Sandberg quote, I hear it all the time from women in one form or another, and then my wife says similar shit. Like she dated the assholes, or had to find herself. Now I’m like, shit, I’m the nice guy she married. I don’t want to be that guy.

I was the asshole in college, what the fuck happened to me and how do I fix it quick? But there is no quick, once you’re in this it’s an uphill battle, a necessary one, but an uphill battle none the less.

This is the revelation men in this situation find themselves in. Even the men who may have fulfilled the role of “a great living dildo” for women in their 20s can still find that their role may have shifted to that of ‘non-threatening relationship material guy’ who she’d never have sex with on the same night she met him.

Now granted, all of this comes back to the subconscious expectation of cuckoldry women place on the men they cast in the passive, supportive role. Women don’t expect the Beta Bucks men they pair with will ever be the Alpha Fucks men their biochemistry predisposes them to want to fuck. But ‘great Dad’ must believe he was chosen as her best option, her best choice for the balance of the two. Only later, once she’s consolidated on him with family, children, financial and professional liabilities to her, is she comfortable in letting him in on how the game was really played.

As I said, the truth of that is hard enough to hear from Red Pill writers on the internet, but to have it viscerally confirmed by a wife without the social filters of an older social climate is a much harder pill to swallow than the red one.

The Fix is In

That sounds like an awful lot of gloom and doom doesn’t it? I can’t speak for Captain, but a woman delivering the confirmation that a guy is really a Blue Pill consolation prize is rarely couched in so melodramatic and sinister delivery. I’ve had many men (mostly disillusioned husbands from MMSL) relate similar stories as Captain’s and none of them were screaming confessions of deceit on the part of their wives. Most were simply matter of fact comments in passing that aligned with their suspicions about themselves.

I hate to harp on Pixar’s Inside Out cartoon, but it’s the simple everyday open Hypergamy that goes unnoticed by Blue Pill idealists. It takes a Red Pill lens to even be sensitive to it, but when you see how casually the wife/mother in this movie fantasizes about her widowed Alpha, the Alpha fantasy she couldn’t consolidate on, and how frustrated she is every time her Beta husband fails a shit test, you begin to understand the passive nature of an overt Hypergamy in women.

Women get frustrated that Blue Pill men Just Don’t Get It. The Blue Pill idealism blinds them to having the insight needed to realize the role they’re supposed to play and the frustration comes from their being over-supportive and over-engaging in order to make things right for their women. Blue Pill men will graciously ‘play equal’ in their marriages in order to live up to the equalist goal-set they were taught would pay off for them for a lifetime if left uncheck or unchallenged.

It’s my belief that wives will use a married form of open, or certainly casually overt, revelations of Hypergamy in order to rouse a man to a Red Pill awareness in the hopes that he’ll Just Get It.

And to answer the inevitable question, yes, this is a meta-scale shit test on the part of wives. However, it’s important remember that Hypergamy is rooted in existential and life-security doubt for women – “Is he really the best I can do?” – and that the shit tests associated with this vary depending on the influences of a woman’s phase of maturity as well as which part of her menstrual cycle she happens to be in.

Revealing the machinations of Hypergamy to a husband has potentially disastrous consequences, or at least it used to. As I said before, women generally don’t sprout horns and a forked tail and say “Ha ha, sucker!” when they reveal Hypergamy; it’s usually a casual inference. If a Blue Pill husband isn’t Getting It about his participation in women sexual strategy from outside means (media, social networks) then the passive or overt shit tests about his awareness of it need to be implemented.

In a previous social order making men aware of this could just as likely result in a woman being divorced or ostracized socially. Today, in men’s never ending quest to satisfy “equalism’s” approval, men are less likely to even believe their role when a woman confirms it for them. Ego-investments meets cognitive dissonance. Not only does he not get it his ego refuses to get it.

This then is the pathetic state of 80%+ of contemporary men. Men so inured by Blue Pill conditioned idealism that they’ll entertain ‘open marriages‘ in order to make themselves ‘better husbands‘ according to an emasculated equalist ideal.

Help! Quick!

So now we come to a situation like Captains – one where that husband Just Gets It only he’s gotten the message, received the awareness, from his wife (either passively or overtly) and he’s both pissed off at his state and equally wants to improve it. I expect most men would advise Cap to sack up and dump that bitch; and they’d probably be right in that assessment. She was duplicitous and then felt so self-assured in her position (reinforced by feminine primary social influences) that she was comfortable in revealing it to him. What’s he gonna do about it, right?

The right answer is to preemptively detonate the marriage. When you consider he’ll be cast in the role of villain no matter who files for divorce (he’s an asshole, or he’s the asshole who couldn’t meet her needs) why not, right? Any kids, any family discord, certainly the financial liabilities, should all be small shrift, collateral damage, when we look at this in terms of justice. It’s just revenge for her double-cross.

And yet that’s not what the vast majority of men in Cap’s situation first consider. Their first thought is “How do I fix this? I’ve lost Frame! How do I get it back fast! Help?” For all of the duplicity inherent in Hypergamy, for all of the insult that comes from a wife confirming he’s her Beta ‘sure thing’ (not the ‘hawt’ college asshole), that guy still wants to make lemonade from lemons, knowing full well she deserves piss.

That husband wants to still be all things, the mythical Good Guy balance, to his wife. There’s something in men’s romantic natures that wants this to work for themselves and in spite of women who fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate it.

The first question I think men in this situation need to confront is whether it’s worth the effort to attempt to change their wives’ impression of them. If you’re 35 and (should be) entering your SMV peak years, this open Hypergamy revelation is particularly tough to accept since it’s likely you’ve invested 7-8 years in a woman who’s just told you what you are to her (and confirming it’s not who you are that’s of primary importance to her). As I’ve stated many times before, going from a Beta character to an Alpha (or more Alpha) one is always an uphill battle:

How many of the simpering, socially conditioned, Betatized men these women seeth about would make for believable Alphas once they had a red pill epiphany? It is precisely because of this impressionistic, binary solipsism that women will never be happy with ‘fixing’ their Beta. This is why he has to Just Get It on his own.

It is a far better proposition to impress a woman with an organic Alpha dominance – Alpha can only be a man’s dominant personality origin. There is no Beta with a side of Alpha because that side of Alpha is NEVER believable when your overall perception is one of being Beta to begin with. This is why I stress Alpha traits above all else. It’s easy, and endearing to ‘reveal’ a flash of Beta sensitivity when a woman perceives you as predominantly Alpha. If your personality is predominantly Beta, any sporadic flashes of Alpha will seem like emotional tantrums at best, character flaws at worst.

Women may love the Beta, but they only respect the Alpha.

That’s not to say a real transformation isn’t possible, but rather it’s a question of whether the juice will ever be worth the squeeze. There is no ‘quick fix’, no magical formula that will reverse Frame to your favor. Even if you won the lottery tomorrow, you’d still be a Beta with more money to your openly Hypergamous wife now. Frame establishment (not re-establishment if you never had it to begin with) takes time and active, practicable Red Pill awareness.

As I was telling Goldmund in my interview, that awareness needs to become a man’s internalized nature. He needs to become his own self-important mental point of origin; that and a Red Pill aware nature take time to develop. Anyone telling you they have a ‘one-size-fits-all’ Red Pill solution that ‘guarantees results in your marriage’ is selling you something.

I say they’re selling you something because of one simple truth – no quick fix that could make you seem more Alpha, more like the asshole college guy your wife loved to fuck back in the day will ever be believable to her if it happens overnight. On a root, hindbrain level, your Beta designation was set for your wife when she was having her Epiphany Phase. She knows and is comfortable with what she expects your nature and your character to be.

As I illustrated in Archetypes , women need consistency in behavior – they expect you to be Beta and are so comfortable in that assessment that they feel no guilt and have no fear in revealing to you the role you play for her. Thus, any radical shift in that comfort doesn’t seem genuine, and in fact it seems childish that you wont accept your designation.

So, is it worth it? I think my advice in this instance would be this:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

Once your wife has openly revealed your part in the plan, you’ve effectively broken up. Logistically that may not be the case, but I think most guys need to see this for what it is; a rejection of a husband’s authority, masculinity, his decisiveness and his capacity to read the nuances in behavior and a society that’s been (sometimes literally) screaming to him to Just Get It.

Your wife’s garbage can was dragged to the curb by your wife’s admissions, only the trash truck never comes for it because you’re committed to that can staying on the curb until you walk away from it. If you go digging through it to find what you think is valuable, prepare to get real dirty and look for a long time.

You’ve effectively been ‘friend zoned’ in your marriage. You may still have sex, you may still share special moments, but never forget, her confessions make you ‘just a friend’ in your marriage.

 


*Standard disclaimer: Yes, men should forego marriage altogether and/or stringently vet women for virginity, homemaking and childrearing. Importing wives from third world countries is duly noted. Rollo Tomassi has been married for 19 years to a magical unicorn he found after being a semi-pro rock star and lives an idyllic life of riches and extravagance. NAWALT. Your milage may vary. See dealer for details.

540 comments

  1. NAMALT – Not all marriages are like that. Married young, am constantly pursued by wifes friends. Wife is always on her toes with me. Wife is constantly cooking, cleaning, and pursuing sex with me. Gets mad when I masturbate because she loses a turn.

    Difference? I pass shit tests, I lift, a dress well, make lots of money, and remain alpha post marriage. ( hold frame )

    Marriages where you continue to run game and follow RP principles can be engaging and fun. I have the security of a marriage, a foundation for my children, a wife that finds me fucking strange women on occasion acceptable, and remains loyal.

    Granted, I realize that if I lost my earning ability, physique, or weren’t at least 2 factors ahead of her in wealth, intellect, fitness, I couldn’t enjoy this marriage. I’m just here to say it can happen and it can be you.

    I’m happily married to a RPW and living an RP life.

    All this in context of, AWALT, Hypergamy, holding frame, and the rest of the principles of RP. I’m not denying them, I’m just playing by the rules,

    That being said, don’t marry until your 35 and follow the rule of 7. Marry half your age plus 7. The only mistake I made was marrying too soon, and if you did as well and your story isn’t as rosey as mine, Rollo is right.

    The pain of divorce rape is finite, the pain of being plan B is eternal and the equivalent of the self immolation of your masculinity.

  2. “a rejection of a husband’s authority, masculinity, his decisiveness and his capacity to read the nuances in behavior and a society that’s been (sometimes literally) screaming to him to Just Get It.”

    I Now Just Get it

  3. @charlesthundercock

    “Difference? I pass shit tests, I lift, a dress well, make lots of money, and remain alpha post marriage. ( hold frame )”

    This was my mistake. Living the nomad existence of a writer, I found the low N count (not a virgin, but never a BJ), homemaking and childrearing. Employment, married, kids. Figured my job was provision and comfort. Maxed it. Sex declined. Tried the usual shit. Nothing worked. Depressed. Got myself in shape, dressed better, making things happen, told her I want to separate. Now, she lets me run the show, in fact she expects me to run the show.

    Flash forward to this week, she asks “Do you still want to the write your book or just run your side business?” I reply, “I’ll do what I want to do.”

    Rollo, another perfect post, not only are the ideas accurate but I can’t argue with a single phrasing and word choice.

  4. I was at an event this weekend. I didn’t ask my wife if I could, I just invited her along if she wanted (she did). I was wearing something most guys wouldn’t. A 20s with big tits says to our group, “it takes a strong man to wear that”.

  5. I’ve been married 15 years (I’m 45) and discovered the Red Pill about two years ago. Although my employment of dread game and improvements in my confidence and masculinity have helped my relationship with my wife, she still constantly shit-tested me and bitched and complained. So, I used my game knowledge and started banging other women on the sly. They were almost all one-night stands, I made no emotional investment in any of them.

    My wife found my anonymous online journal in which I described my activities, including the fact that I had banged 11 women since January this year. I really hadn’t tried that hard to hide the journal from her. She found it in the cache history of our home computer’s browser. She reacted, of course, with emotional victimization and martyrdom. I knew that I needed to act as if I had done nothing wrong, and that’s what I did. I held that frame. I told her that the reason I was banging other women was because she wasn’t pleasant to be around, and my extracurricular activities made it possible for me to deal with her since I had other means to relieve my frustrations. I told her that we probably should get divorced since she had found out what I was up to.

    She cried and begged me to stay. I told her I would but only if she started acting more pleasant to be around. I told her the house needed to be my place of rest and sanctuary, not a place I dreaded coming home to from work. So far, it appears to be working. Her efforts to be more pleasant, to thank me for the things I do to help with the family, to avoid complaining if something doesn’t go exactly right, are very enjoyable to experience. We’ll see if she keeps it up.

    If she does, and things end up working out, then it looks like one way for men who have been placed in a beta provider role by their wives to change the relationship is to shake things up like this. Step out on them as if you’re Bill Clinton in his prime, with no apologies. I know this is a dangerous strategy, but if you can pull it off, I think it’s a workable one. Comments?

  6. Rollo,

    I agree that the right thing is to detonate the marriage. If: There are no kids involved. I’m seriously having a difficult time with your statement that kids should be small shrift in terms of justice.

    That being said, I have the utmost respect for your body of work. I have learned so much from your writing.

    Thank you for being a voice of truth and enlightenment for men.

  7. I bought these “workout” gloves. It says it right on the box, P90X Workout Gloves. They are a full palm, half glove, 1 pound each. The weight is some sort of metal BB or pellet things and they are distributed on the back of the hand and with this one compartment that fully covers the knuckles, mostly on the front of the fist, the punching locus.

    I was standing next to Kate in the store, tried them on, and gave the display shelf a moderately light right jab. Nothing much, a little harder than maybe a first fist bump you might have given a bro, something what you might throw at a heavy bag when you first start working with it. And it jarred, rattled, and shook the whole long display shelf making my wife give this “wife look” like “Cut it out. Everyone is looking at us.”

    I am 6’3″, 200 pounds. If I hit with you a real shot with these gloves on, something someone my size and weight could throw, it will probably knock you out. I am not talking a reach back to Dallas and throw sort of punch. I am talking a typical boxing sort of punch. If I hit between the studs, I could throw a right that would bust through sheet rock. And not damage my knuckles in the least. I have popped some stuff with them and my wrist felt it after the fact. But not my hand.

    There is something about the extra weight, then something about the way the weight pellets both convey the force to the surface contacted using the entire surface area of the knuckles and how they sort of cushion your knuckles, allowing you to “follow through” that dramatically increases the impact and devastation of the punch. A left jab will stagger the recipient and a right will probably drop him, certainly stun him enough that if there was an announcer like Jim Lampley calling the fight, he would exclaim, “He’s hurt!! That blow hurt him!” And a boxer that hurt would go into a clinch to recover. A guy in a streetish kind of alteration, a subsequent blow would take him out.

    I am pretty confident that given my size, strength, and agility, that with these gloves I would prevail in a fight not just one, but with two typical sort of men given the way these sorts of things play out.

    Mind you, my life isn’t like that. I live in probably the safest place I have ever lived and the people are remarkably polite and cohesive, but anywhere in America these days, one might encounter a more diverse and vibrant population. So even a trip to a beach or a park, these days in this America, can possible end up on a World Star Hip Hop Video.

    And frankly I want mine titled, “Old White dude knocks out two youths.”

    So I just toss the box with the gloves in it, the one that says “P90X Workout Gloves”, into the console of the car and leave it there. Maybe if a situation looks a little sketchy, when I get out the car I might say, “Keys, Phone, Sunglasses, Box.” But almost certainly, they will remain in the box, brand new, unused, not needed.

    But they are there.

    You can think this is all bluster, but you do not want to mess with me if I have these on my hands. I know me. And any typical crap you have seen in any sort of video of altercations with the typical people that start them is not going to go the way the other person(s) hope.

    And my mindset right now is that I nobody’s “cuck” in all manners that sort of trendy word conveys. This is a different day and a different time. I am done backing up, done taking crap, done following the rules that the world thinks a Straight White Male should follow.

    And to me, Rational Male is like those gloves.

    So it’s no secret I am married right now. And I sort of follow this kind of forgotten idea. Back in the day when we talked of alpha, we said there were two types, the bear and the wolf.

    The bear dominates manosphere writing, alone, unfettered, he hunts for food and mating. He is hardly monogamous. All manosphere writing and really the ideal of most men in the manosphere is to be a bear.

    The wolf has a pack. He is the epitome of K-Selection, the model of it actually. He cares, feeds, and protects his pack. He is the undisputed leader of it. The writing says, “Woman love and crave the wolf.” And that’s the model I follow. We just got a new dog. It is older. It recognizes me already as the wolf. It fucks around and ignores the commands of the others, but not mine.

    Now the issue with the wolf is that it borders on Beta caring. Often, it crosses the line. Roissy speaks of the difference between pickup and an LTR. The former is alpha, alpha, beta, alpha in its rotation, where the touch of beta is comfort building. The later is often Beta, Beta, Alpha, Beta. Wolf is sort of an aggressive version of this. But it does skirt the border.

    And that’s where the Rational Male Workout Gloves that sit in your “console” come in to play. I have said this one thing several times in comments. It is this quote from Tony Boselli, an All-Pro offensive tackle back in the 90s. He was known for mauling defensive ends, being pro-active instead of reactive as a typical OT. And he said, “Where is it written that the offensive lineman has to take crap off of the defensive lineman.”

    Bitch wants to say some shit like “I used to date fun guys but I chose to marry someone like you.” you throw it right back and say, “I know what you mean. Being with hot girls can be difficult. All the other guys are always hitting on them. It’s so nice to be with someone like you and not have to worry about that.”

    Your wife has an opportunity every day to get up and look in the mirror and ask herself, “How can I value my husband? How can I display to him that I understand the sacrifice he made to be with me? How can I be a better wife to him? How can I treat him well today?”

    I am married to someone that does. She posted some article on her blog that was called “The Professional Woman.” The gist of it was that a woman had a job of being a woman and she owed that job proper dedication, to maintaining her weight and appearance, to adding touches to the home, to even working on her demeanor and attitude.

    Now I’m gonna be the wolf, and continue to act as wolf. And the day she forgets I am the wolf and confuses me with beta, is the very day I show teeth. And any day that Mrs want to drop that “r” and become Ms again, fine. Imma help her out most rickytick. I don’t say this because of anything with the current Mrs. We have had our moments for sure. And I get out “the gloves” or more often, make it clear that “the gloves” can come out. It was more from my experience with the last Mrs and the futility of hanging in there. Better sooner than later. Especially with the last Mrs, the ex-Mrs, much sooner would have better, and never even much better.

    I am nobody’s cuck. And nobody’s beta fool.

    Steve Sailer has an essay today where he writes about a LA Times article that says 9% of San Bernadino children can be classified as homeless. And most under that classification live in “budget” motels, weekly rental sort of things.

    And that piece took me back to the time after I was tossed out by my ex. I spent a good amount of time in those sorts of places. At first it tremendously humbling. To go from living in one of the best suburbs in Colorado to that was an humiliating adjustment. And almost the whole time I was alone, I was very rootless, often very alone. Late 40s, early 50s is probably maybe the worst time to get pushed out.

    And everything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong. I can remember being in one of those “budget” motels in Tampa, crack dealers in one of the rooms on the first floor with a lookout standing outside the room. And I was in the room wretching, almost like dry heaves from fear. I was unemployed, living off credit cards, alone, and I felt hopeless.

    Then the phone rang. Literally as I was bent over the commode, heaving. It was a guy for a job at a Fortune 20 company. They would fly me to the site for the interview, pay my moving expenses, put me up in hotel for some weeks while I found a place to live. I happened to sit in the interview with two of the kindest men I have ever worked with. It was a long way from a final solution but it was a life preserver. I had many more years of flailing around and some pretty dire straits ahead before I ended up where I am today. And it took a decade.

    But that decade, my 50s, ended up being the most exciting, adventurous decade in my life. I saw more stuff, drove more miles, flew more, did more, learned more. Yeah there were lots of “budget motels”, lots and lots of different beds, a couple of thousand dinners alone. I must have eaten in Waffle House, alone, at 2 or 3 in the morning, over 100 times. But even at Waffle House at 3 in the morning you see some shit.

    And I just turned 60 a couple of weeks ago. And I had this sensation, like no other cardinal birthday, 30, 40, 50, that in turning 60 I was leaving something. I have this image in my mind like I was driving out of town back in the 1960s, before interstate highways, with the lights of the town in the rear view mirror, and my headlights cutting on into the darkness on the edge of town. My 60s will probably a comfortable married life in a safe white town in a nice house, dogs, kids, meals, with a 30 something blonde woman that is usually the most attractive woman wherever we go.

    But despite the turmoil of my 50s, I refuse to be a cuck to keep it, to stay here. There might be darkness out there for me in way I have never experienced, maybe even death. 60 is 60.

    I am nobody’s cuck. Nobody’s beta fool.

    The whole reason this word “cuck” even exists in the culture now is the sex ratio that favors women so dramatically. Do you think women in 1980 were clamoring for “open marriage”? Even in 1990? In 1980, did women play their options, work that hypergamy? Or did they answer the phone on the first ring? Fuck you often on the first night? Ask you after the third night together, “Where is this relationship going?” And rush to the alter to nail down a man before the clock struck 25? Polyamory? Shit I could have used two wives back in 1983, got both of them jobs. “Open Marriage? If that bitch would said “I think we should have an open marriage.” then next thing she would have heard was shower running as I was getting ready to hit the Ocean Club in Houston with lines of 7s and 8s waiting outside in line to get in, where you couldn’t help falling in love 10 times on your way to the bathroom. When I finally got home and she shrieked “Why are you coming home at 7 in the morning?” I would have responded cooly, “Breakfast.”

    But for you it is different. And you have these women that you have. And that probably explains why so many men fit the description that Rollo describes above. Thirst, fear of loneliness, the depression that comes with constant rejection leads men to cleave unto a woman in a desperate manner, afraid to lose her, afraid to be alone.

    I am nobody’s cuck, nobody’s beta fool.

    Marriage is good-when it’s good. Sitting in Dalrock’s restaurant. Meals, dogs, kids, rubs, sex, the same bed, driving past those “budget” motels giving them nary a thought. I expressed my opinion about it in my last comment.

    But when it’s bad-it’s bad. And a cuck dies a thousand deaths and lives in soul destroying depression that is a cancer inside him. All because he fears a fear that shouldn’t be a fear.

    So tomorrow, fuck, tonight, you be you, you tell her how the cow ate the cabbage. You open your box and get out your “workout gloves”. And be ready to throw that first “punch”.

    And don’t you be afraid of those “budget” motels. You won’t be there forever. Adventure awaits.

  8. @ Karl

    Story of my life! Except I didn’t, and cant stop.

    [For those men who find the idea of fucking around when you are married offensive, just don’t read].

    My wife is the career type. She is also a joy killer, cant stand my kind of music, cant stand my driving style, cant stand my general conduct, says I am too rowdy, restless…

    Problem is she had no issues with all that I was before marriage and then suddenly flipped and started trying to change me after marriage. Did not work. So I take my holidays alone, and when we are going for the family, they understand that it is purely for their fun, not mine.

    Early in our marriage I took this beautiful younger woman with me during my holiday. The girl was an undergraduate in college at the time, and hotter than my wife by far. Stupid me made a video disc for her, just photos, careful that I did not appear in any of them. When my wife was nosing around among my discs she found it! She tried to bust me, playing it with the kids watching! The kids were only 5 and 2 then. Well, I told her that she was with a very big group of people I had met during my holiday and that that girl was also “out of my league” anyway. Her dad is a tycoon anyway (true), and she was too young for me. I think my wife wanted to believe this so much that she let it slide heheheeee…

    Continued fucking her till I dropped her a while ago.

    So, I think much as it is a wife thing to not do some things with their husbands, I think the same applies to the men too. For those guys who are married and have a girl or two (or 10) on the side, would you do the same things you do with those girls with your wife? I mean the stuff I did with my wife before she had our kids? I cant just do them now.

  9. Trying to become “more alpha” with regards to your marriage isn’t the only uphill battle a man with newly opened eyes is going to have. It rocks your entire world with regards to your existing relationships. People are resistant to change, and that includes when their friend’s personality changes. If you grew up in a house where your parents treated you like a doormat and a servant, they will continue to see you as such. If you have friends who take advantage of your good nature, they will continue to attempt doing so.

    After my awakening 14 years ago, I began working on changing my personality for the better. The uphill battle came with all my existing relationships. I had a male friend whom I eliminated from my life because I started standing up for myself. He wrote me a lengthy email saying “What has happened to you? You used to be blah blah blah blah”. Needless to say, he’s still no longer part of my life.

    My parents have had a very difficult time with the transition as well. I have absolutely nothing in common with them anymore. They still continue to tell me how I should run my life, but their “suggestions” usually get ignored, and I end up hearing about how I made a bad decision. It’s a reality that I now have to deal with on a daily basis.

    Being married to a woman who expects you to be a doormat isn’t going to be any different with regards to an uphill battle. However, some people are open to change. I have one friend who’s still in my life and hasn’t had a problem seeing me change for the better. I believe women can also be open to the change, but you have to bring along the good with the potentially difficult. Appealing to her emotions primarily is the way to go if you’re going to transition. You need to get the excitement flowing inside of her again. However, if she’s mentally done with you, no amount of anything is going to change her mind. If she’s already fucked around on you or is in the process of making it happen, it’s a lost cause.

    I know it’s possible to make a woman fall back in love with you, but it can’t be done (at least not in her vicinity) if she’s lost all respect for you. In a case like that, a few years of absence to allow the memories and negative emotions to fade would be necessary. The ex who lost all respect for me, left me, and drove me to change 14 years ago has been pursuing me for the last 5 years, but I think it’s better to avoid eating where I was previously shitting. She keeps getting passed up for other women, but she still continues to pursue. I have no doubt that she now sees me as “the one who got away”.

  10. It doesn’t matter how well they have done in their choice. How much oneitis they have for you. The shit testing never stops.

    Which is why a woman’s word is seldom worth anything. Maybe they will come to a better decision later.

  11. I’ve always been convinced that women’s insistence on proliferating the trope of men’s “locker room talk” or ‘Humble-Bragging’ about their sexual conquests is a distraction from their own peer clutch groups congratulating themselves on the successes of their sexual strategy.

    The trope is also asserted because women think men are just like them in the cold calculation of sexual conquest.

  12. @Augustus, I’ll admit some sarcasm in the ‘short shrift’ reference to kids. Obviously children ought to be anyone’s first priority, but in light of that, they become ‘short shrift’ as set by women’s example when they give no thought to the consequences of open Hypergamy.

    Children don’t matter as much to women who’s plan it is to force fit a husband and father into it to facilitate a role in her solipsism.

  13. Re: Disclaimer. Better than virginity is oneitis for you. But not perfect.

    Because even behind that is “Well, He has passed all the shit tests so far, and no suitable replacement is on the horizon, but what if he fails the next shit test?”

    She can’t help it.

  14. I have to chuckle to myself every time I hear a married man after discovering Red Pill knowledge talk about how “alpha” they are, how they “maintain frame,” they “run the show here,” keep their wife in line, etc.

    Every married man is a supplicating beta. Every. Single. One. – No exceptions. Marriage instantly beta-izes every man, because both of you are now in a three-some with the State, where she has the upper hand.

    No supposed alpha male can out alpha the State.

    Every married woman with half a brain knows very well the power that they have with the State as their enforcer. Have you ever been in family court or divorce court? Have you ever been removed from your own home due to a domestic violence accusation or even just a vague “threat” these days (VAWA)? Have you ever been put in jail for failure to pay exorbitant child support or alimony due to a job loss through no fault of your own, and lose your professional licenses because of this, so it renders you incapable of earning a living?

    These married men may think they are in control, but they’re not. They are still slaves, and their wives are their masters. Marriage is based on concession, not compromise, where the husband must concede to the wife.

    If you don’t believe me, just lose your job, or “go all alpha” on her ass and push her too far, see what happens – Then you will get the real deal. Believe me, the most seemingly angelic, sweet-as-pie, cherubic, even Christian, Stepford wife, can turn into the most intransigent harridan when her interests are threatened and at stake.

    These married men are delusional. Women effectively deceive and manipulate men into serving them. She enjoys letting you think that your “all man”, a real “alpha” male, and you are her “captain.” To put it figuratively, the husband may be the head, but she is the neck pointing the head towards the direction she wants. I guarantee you that she knows very well who is running and leading this show in the marriage: herself. A wife can financially, emotionally and psychologically destroy her husband with impunity with the aid of the State. She can even kill him by driving him to suicide if she wished.

    Yeah, I know, many of you guys don’t want to hear this brutal stuff, but it’s just reality.

    Let the flames begin.

  15. Definition of ‘Rationalization’ per Merriam Webster:

    “to think about or describe something (such as bad behavior) in a way that explains it and makes it seem proper, more attractive, etc.”

    Staying for the kids.
    Staying to preserve wealth.
    Staying because “she could be worse”
    Staying because “she’s not malicious”
    Staying because I am now “alpha”

    Etc…

    I don’t wish the hell that is divorce on anyone, especially the kids, and I judge no man that chooses to stay…but understand and accept the rationalizations!

  16. “Your wife’s garbage can was dragged to the curb by your wife’s admissions, only the trash truck never comes for it because you’re committed to that can staying on the curb until you walk away from it. If you go digging through it to find what you think is valuable, prepare to get real dirty and look for a long time.”

    V. good allegory, can’t explain it better than this.
    Blue pill fantasy deludes men not just make do with but even enjoy the garbage.
    Blue pill men are like a group of pigs rolling in sewage while calling on others to enjoy the same. They look at the clean alpha pigs and assume they are doing better than the clean ones.

    “that guy still wants to make lemonade from lemons, knowing full well she deserves piss.”
    (Not complaining or objecting, just noting). Never seen you write in this tone.
    Mr. T seems to be rubbing off on people here.
    Me, personally, has given up on thinking what women deserve or do not.
    Simply doesn’t matter any more.

  17. @Excalibur – I presume that includes Rollo too then. The question is not merely checking about no exceptions. But takings your view has implications – it discredits not on those commentators, but anyone else too. And leaves an open question how far exactly to take that thought.

    @CaveClown – I don’t particularly want to go around making arguments and stuff. But I need to point out if we are going into semantics, part of the meaning of rationalize, if you look via Google’s definition (which is based from an official dictionary somewhere):

    “attempt to explain or justify (one’s own or another’s behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate” (emphasis added)

    In other words, part of the meaning of using the word rationalization is delusion. That said, it is true that there is a fine line between making a critical thought weight all factors versus lying to oneself to justify taking a choice part of themselves know is the wrong one. Which implies, well – kids is a strong reason. Rationalization becomes rationalization when one start to make up lies – of course, when desires and interests becomes conflicted, it becomes hard to tell if one is lying or a valid point.

    Third: Is the disclaimer sarcasm or serious? On the interest, barring the /s or highly exaggerating. It’s honestly hard to tell. Part of that answer affects interpretation to view if this is about “women who planned” versus “all women”.

  18. “You’ve effectively been ‘friend zoned’ in your marriage.”

    Sorry Rollo, but this is wrong. This man has been cuckolded, not friend zoned.

  19. This is the harshest article I’ve read, because it’s about me.

    I don’t even know what to say. My first instinct is to defend myself, as there are some details that are different about my marriage versus most of the guys that come in here, namely I wasn’t super blue pill when we first hooked up, I picked her up in a bar and fucked her hard the first night, it’s just moving in 6 months later that all of a sudden you become ‘non-threatening relationship material guy’. Regardless of my desire to defend myself, as it stands, Rollo is right. She sees me as the stable guy, the husband, etc. We do have sex a few times a week, but most of the time it’s not that hot. The biggest thing is that I feel like a caged animal. Like I can’t be my natural, manly self with unbridled masculinity and sexuality. I have to conform to what she perceives as “normal relationship existence” which is comfortable, watches TV together, get’s up at 6:30 am, and goes grocery shopping together.
    When I first moved in and the sex dropped, I complained, I threatened to leave, but they tell you that it’s normal for it to drop some, and that we’ll work it out. Then you get married, then she get’s pregnant. You’re still complaining (not out loud, just it’s a complaint in my head, I haven’t grown complacent). I haven’t been married that long, and I’m still young. But I am married, and my wife’s pregnant. Walking out should not be a quick decision, it may end up the only one, but not one to be made lightly.

    Reading through this article a few times, I shake my head and wonder what I’ve done. How the fuck did I get here. Like I said, I wasn’t blue pill to start, my dad is a traditional guy, and I was quite the man in college, it’s just now I’m here and the only answer seems to walk on my pregnant wife.

    I think I’m going to keep working on myself, get ripped (I have a better body than most our male friends but I could do better), keep building my business, start living for myself, develop some more male friends, develop my hobbies. Either A she loves the new, old me or B she doesn’t and I walk. I don’t think I have much choice.

    Once you realize what you realize, that in a marriage with a woman that sees you as the nice guy to relax with, the likelihood of changing that is low. You just start working on yourself and prepping for an exit, because either she’ll like what she sees and respond favorably, or someone else will.

    Still this sucks. Right here, “I expect most men would advise Cap to sack up and dump that bitch; and they’d probably be right in that assessment.” It’s like, … fuck… that’s my wife.

    Rollo, I wouldn’t mind talking to you or another one of the older married guys if you’re open to it.

  20. @Rich,

    Granted, but the living situation is one of being married to your LJBF girl with all the accompanying restrictions and liabilities to persist in that friend zone.

  21. I spotted a variant on the wife’s beta bucks unveiling. Jason and Crystalina Evert are speakers on purity and chastity to high school and college kids. They wrote booklets respectively called Pure Manhood and Pure Womanhood. Turns out she was a reformed slut basically who at about 28 married a 28-year-old virgin. *She really, really regrets her past (and shows that by writing books and speaking about having been promiscuous while her husband was waiting…just for her!)* In Pure Manhood, he tries to create an impression that he was pretty sexually immoral in his day and regrets it. But his wife explodes that impression by revealing in Pure Womanhood that while she was a slut who eventually got tired of being used, he was a virgin, waiting just for her. Then they got married. Money quote: “Needless to say, I was surprised when I finally met my future husband-to-be. He was still a virgin, and, at twenty-four, he was still waiting–for me.” They didn’t marry for another four years or so, as far as I can tell.

  22. @Excalibur:
    https://therationalmale.com/2014/02/23/beta-fucks/

    Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. I completely agree with your assessment, but understand that Alpha husbands do exist (and have existed in prior social orders) despite the sword of Damocles the state represents to married men now.

    That said, I fully recognize the overwhelming risks inherent in marriage today, and this is why more men are indifferently disregarding it, but I also understand that an ‘accidental’ pregnancy is a very close runner up to the support women are entitled to in divorce.

  23. @Captain, it wasn’t my intent to flame you, only to use your situation as an example of more and more men having their wives comfortably embrace open Hypergamy with them.

  24. @Patrick, here’s an assignment for you. Go to your church (or your family’s church if you don’t go regular) and take mental notes of all the women you see there. Be real particular as far as appearances go and any conversations you can eavesdrop in on, paying particular attention to statements about personal lives or issues that may relate to their opinions of dating or marriage. You will begin to see consistent patterns present themselves. A lot of “Christian” women follow very predictable feminine-primary schemas. Most will be overweight, most will shun direct discussions about sex, most will expect to be married (disappointed it didn’t happen early in life despite their choices), most will complain about there being a lack of ‘marriageable’ men with sufficient “dedication” to women as it should be their duty to do so.

    Those not overweight will tend to be wallflowers (or self-perceived wallflowers) or ‘recovering sluts’ back in church for the first time in a while wanting to make an Epiphany Phase fresh start. One unifying understanding that virtually all of them will have will be a belief in a ONE (ONEitis) predestined husband ordained for them by God and will respond to the soul-mate myth accordingly. This is also a manifestation of the feminine ‘entitlement’ to a man dynamic which is rife in almost every religious group, not just Christianity.

  25. Rollo- I’m beginning to see a duality to a lot of young men’s situations, when they are getting into an LTR/marriage. It seems there are two major considerations:

    1- Did your relationship begin and progress in a way which indicates you are alpha to her, and she just wants to lock you down? If so, progress to question 2:

    2- Are you pre-emptively cuckholded by her (college) de-souling days?

    If the answer to number 2 is “yes”… should alphas move on? Is this a categorical disqualifier?

    What if a “yes” to question 2 doesn’t disturb your alpha status because she isn’t an alpha widow…. Do you still move on?

    What if she fulfills the other two criteria of housemaking and childrearing/nurturing, even if she fails the virginity vetting? If risk of future cucking is not an issue, does resentment (or even just AWARENESS) of a past (even in consideration of her cultural hypergamous conditioning/brainwashing) necessitate a NEXT?

    You may remember the predicament I’m in, which I described in my comment on your Evo-psych article. You had said there that you’d address my situation in a forthcoming article– and a few of your recent articles touch on similar principles, so perhaps you’ve already done it.

    What do you say to guys like me?

  26. Rollo, also– as a follow-up, do you see “ledger inequity” as an intractable source of resentment which would preclude a healthy relationship?

  27. @Aelorne,
    https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/

    Ideally, you want a woman to enter your reality. Her genuine (unnegotiated) desire for you hinges upon you covertly establishing this narrative for her. Famous men, men with conspicuous affluence and status, and men with overwhelming social proof have very little difficulty in establishing frame – they can’t help but establish frame in a very overt fashion. A woman already wants to enter that world. She want’s an easy association with a man who’s unquestionably a proven commodity and offers her hypergamy not just a actualized fantasy, but also a high degree of personal affirmation in being the one a Man of this grandeur would choose above other women.

    […]It is vital to the health of any LTR that a man establish his frame as the basis of their living together before any formal commitment is recognized. As I stated in the beginning, frame will be fluid and conditions will influence the balance, but the overall theme of your relationship needs to be led and molded by you. Even very influential, professional, intellectualizing women still crave the right man to establish his frame in her life. They may fight it bitterly, but ultimately it’s what will make for the best healthy balance she can achieve. There’s a growing undercurrent of mid-life women questioning and regretting their past decisions to remain single into spinsterhood. And for all their late game rationalizations, the one thing they still simply refuse to accept is acknowledging that a man’s frame, the frame their “fierce independence” wouldn’t allow for, was exactly the salve their egos so desperately wants now later in life.

    Gentlemen, you will establish frame in any monogamous relationship you have. You will enter her reality or she will enter yours.

    With the rise of Red Pill awareness, either as the result of the manosphere or societal embrace of open Hypergamy, men will come to the conclusion that it’s nearly impossible to pair with a woman who hasn’t been on the cock carousel and who exercises self-restraint and control over the Hypergamous influences she’s praised for following and optimizing.

    So it’s with this foreknowledge that men need to consider their own roles in women’s strategies and act accordingly. Your Frame needs to be ironclad and you need to establish it early on; long before any thought of commitment ever enters your head. In the future only the most Beta of men will be unaware of their role in the scheme of women’s plan, and women will despise them all the more for that naiveté.

    You should demonstrate (never explicate) your awareness of her sexual strategy and always act in accord with that unspoken condition. She should Just Get it that you know her plan.

  28. If you are staying together “for the kids,” “Your” kids have already been weaponized against you.

  29. @kfg, exactly why I say women don’t care about their kids when they use men to fulfill a settled upon role of ‘father’.

    Only that husband is considering his children in that equation.

  30. @Aelorne, you don’t need me to explain ‘ledger inequity’ to you, all you need is to look at the glaring statistics about marriages where a woman out-earns her husband.

    That’s when you get situations like the ones I linked in this article:
    http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/what-open-marriage-taught-one-man-about-feminism.html?cx_navSource=related-side-cx&cx_tag=default

    http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/youre-a-male-feminist-in-an-open-marriage.html

    There are thousands of Beta men eager to marry Strong Independent Women® who grossly out earn them in their dream of an egalitarian marriage, but there is nothing ‘equal’ in that situation, only Beta resentment for him.

    This should also illustrate the ruthless pragmatism women apply to Hypergamy. Women want a man that can take care of them on every level, not vice versa. Provisioning for men is an honorable duty. Provisioning for women only makes for a man a burden to her.

  31. @kfg,

    Weaponization–very true. I’d like to think I blunted the betaifcation of my sons and the bitchification of my daughters. Time will tell; perhaps they will start to see things through red-tinted glasses.

  32. @Captain, the ‘Stay’ and the ‘Go’ plan are the same.

    Work on yourself for you, follow your passion, do what pleases *you*, provision for yourself and those in your life that are worthy (i.e., your kids).

    Suspend disbelief that your wife wont come around and internalize *your* new paradigm until you can’t anymore.Then, walk away with a clear conscience and new understanding and a better life.

  33. Rollo,
    I don’t often comment but today I am compelled. As a man who preemptively detonated his 12 year marriage upon Red Pill awareness, I would say your advice is spot-on. Let men know it is possible to find yourself again.

    You are doing good work for men.

  34. @ Mark Minter

    “I am nobody’s cuck.”

    I thought your wife had children from a previous relationship?

  35. As a single man of 30 , I’ll say that Rollo’s words on game and marriage are important.

    Why? Because the feminist imperative is not going to stop here.Like all social movements it is a constantly evolving model. Ten years back a man could game many women without much personal risk. Today a PUA could be jailed depending on where and when he runs his game. In the years to come I can easily see a day where single , unmarried males are discriminated against openly because they’re not upholding the feminist imperative-or even taxed or hit with legal sanctions for NOT being marriwd. That’s the only direction left for feminism to go in its “constraining sexual options of dick” MO.

    While the “don’t marry” crowd has VERY good points, no man lives in a vacuum. While the notion of being legally forced to marry as a man is preposterous now, it should be noted that the world we live in today would be equally as preposterous to a resident of 1970s America. We may all live to see the day where the feminist imperative via the government goes “plomo a plata” to ensure the sexual options for men are legally zero ; unmarried men can choose either matrimony or a jail cell .

    Knowing how to manage a woman via game in a marriage regime may be a legally necessary skill to have for men as the feminist-inspired family law multiplies.

  36. @Aelorne,
    The risk in not being her only alpha is if you aren’t her ‘alpha high score’, she will be marginally less resentful than if you ware a full-on beta.

  37. @Captain – things can get better. I started out the asshole and maybe a bit of a natural PUA and met my wife in a similar kind of random way, screwed her silly, and found later I really liked her and we built a relationship from there. I was that ueber alpha guy to her. 20 years of marriage takes a toll though if the guy doesn’t stay on top of his game. She’s a good caretaker of me and my son most all the time, has always been like that, she’s basically a red pill girl who wants to be led and is appreciative of a man who acts in a traditional, masculine manner. Where I fucked up for a long time is that I tend to what Vox calls Sigma, have always taken advantage of my talent and drive to earn space that then allows me to flake in and out of whatever I choose to do – at work and play, in our local community. Over the long run this is probably pretty frustrating to those around me, most of all my wife. Maybe being sigma is it’s being beta too, by not living up to one’s potential as a man, but I don’t know if the labels really matter. Things were reasonably content in our marriage but really stale and there were days I wondered if we were going anywhere – so maybe they weren’t that reasonable at all.

    So I’ve been working to evolve into something a bit more alpha. RP knowledge changes have caused me to have an agenda in my life again, a master plan other than “accumulate shit, have fun doing what I like then die.” It’s to bed early with her, up at 5 to the gym or for a mountain bike ride, then off to work. Instead of participating in a handful of community activities, I now look to lead in whatever I choose to participate in, and do lead, running a non-profit’s volunteer work crews in a national park, holding minor elected office, being a commissioner in the local kids sports league. Ah, super beta. Or lesser alpha, right? Maybe. My wife has dropped by on days we’re doing work in the park and sees me bossing 20-40 crew, cutting trees, moving earth, building, and feels the need to run up and hug me. Instead of saying “I’d like to do ____ on the weekend” she now asks me what my plans are, agrees, and then asks if we could also do something from her list (I’m okay with that… I don’t want her to completely disappear into our relationship). I also went out and bought a big ass sail boat (unannounced) and have worked hard to master that, telling her when I am planning to take a trip, and she always replies with an enthusiastic “please.” Ironic, I’m talking to a captain – I’ve found a guy who can command a sailboat authoritatively and calmly through a storm without making her hate boats forever,and who can entertain her envious friends when they join us, seems to make a girl a little hot. There’s also been a bit of dread game; I make it a point to flirt with the hot young MILFs in our neighborhood, and they reciprocate because, me, and because every woman loves to make another woman jealous. This is also getting my wife to stay on her toes. I know it’s working because she packs a lunch for me every day now, at least when I’m not out of the house a couple hours before she’s up. I’m happier this way too. Alternating between being a high performer and fucking off, the Sigma way, had always left me with a sense of aimlessness, that I was leaving a lot on the table. It was fun but I can do a lot better than that, and maybe the key to improving one’s marriage (at least for some guys in salvageable situations) is improving one’s self and being firm and strong enough that the woman decides it would be a good idea for her to go along for the ride. Is it alpha? I’m sure it’s not. There’s always some fucker more alpha than you so you’re beta in comparison, always, unless you’re *that guy,* but it seems to be alpha enough to improve things for me.

    It’s not perfect, I’m a work in progress and have a long way to go, and she does too. But it seems possible for a marriage to make some moves toward recovery out of a blue pill torpor. You have to decide to look out for yourself first though,and build your own plan. Doesn’t mean to disregard her needs, just that you need to make sure you’re growing and accomplishing things you want and need to do, and then tossing her a bone here and there. Putting her first at all times causes an automatic loss of frame, leaving the relationship stuck in the mire. She ain’t going to get you out of that hole, it’s on you.

  38. Rollo, I have been following your blog for a while now. I agree with all of your points about RP awareness. However, help me understand this —

    How is the advice “Read this stuff, make yourself a better man, fuck around and “find yourself” then you can get into a LTR” for a guy different from oft-quoted sandberg’s advice to women. Essentially both of them are telling one to fuck around before settling down (as in marriage and not as in finding some one sub-par).
    We guys fuck around in our 20s, why is there a problem when women do the same? I’m not yet married but I don’t mind a wife who’s had her share coz I know I have had my fair share. As long as I get to lead my life my way and she genuinely respects me, how/why does/should her past bother me? Please don’t portray this as someone routing for equality coz I know there is no real equality in LTR.

    Rollo, your thoughts?

  39. Have you spent much time on Tumblr? The number of girls who claim to be kinky and into S&M is incredible. In truth, I doubt they are really into the kink, it is just the rationalization hamster at work. They have learned that in our culture, having a kink means you can’t help it, which means you’re not responsible for it, which means you can’t be held responsible or shamed for it. So by claiming to be kinky girls get to escape responsibility and follow their desire to be submissive to men.

  40. We guys fuck around in our 20s, why is there a problem when women do the same?

    Do we? Maybe the top 5-10% but do the 80%+ of guys who buy into the Blue Pill Beta-in-waiting schema?

    Statistically it’s men who are more predisposed to serial monogamy because any deviation from that conflicts with their ego-invested Blue Pill view of themselves.

    Statistically, who invest more in an LTR/Marriage, men or women? Who has more to lose by investing naively? Which sex has the most fail-safes in marriage?

    Open Hypergamy has made a mockery of women’s previously held characterizations of victimhood, but we’re still expected to defer to them as victims by default.

    I definitely advocate men spinning plates and remaining non-exclusive until they have a degree of experience that allows them to make choices based on a better knowledge of women. In some cases that means fucking around and in some cases that means remaining non-exclusive with women they might potentially become intimate with.

    One thing you need to consider is that women’s sexual strategy is much different than that of men’s. Hypergamy is dualistic, Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks; the hot AF guy (even the fantasy of him) tends to become a woman’s Alpha Widow. 5 minutes of Alpha trumps 5 years of Beta.

    Men don’t have that compunction and we’ll happily fuck an HB 6 if the HB 8 we want is unavailable. There are no male Alpha Widowers. Men have a remarkable ability to resign themselves to the sex they can get rather than the sex they could get.

    From an equalist perspective the logic is always “men get to fuck around so women should too, goose, gander, get it?”, but men and women’s sexual strategies aren’t equal. This logic is flawed because it relies on the Apex Fallacy – feminine primacy presumes ALL men are fucking around when it’s only the top tier men who are.

  41. @Karl Agree on not trying too hard to hide everything. I was caught, but with little evidence. I did the full denial, yet no apologies. I told my wife she is paranoid because she knows she’s behaving terribly. She couldn’t deny I was right about her behavior. No divorce. I can still handle her crap while having a good outlet for frustrations.

  42. This post couldn’t be more timely for me.

    My wife and I filed for divorce today. Per her initiative. She left me about a year ago. When I was spotting the first red flags in the month prior to the separation, I found The Rational Male in Amazon after some hopeless browsing. I ordered it together with MMSL. My first instinct was to improve myself very quickly with MMSL, even abruptly, to revert my Beta personality and prevent the shipwreck. That hope helped me remain calm even after separation — I would win her back.

    Such motivation led me to improve huge changes in my life. Started lifting and switched to a sort of Paleo diet — 8 months later, I’m in the best shape of my life. Improved my clothing and social skills. Found I had hypogonadism and started testosterone replacement therapy. Even started going out and meeting new women for “practice” and to prevent myself from going all in into depression. Met and fu*k*d almost 20 women in 6 months.

    But she had already checked out of the relationship.

    However, even though I’ve had the best and most sex in my life in these last six months, even though I’m in the best shape of my life and am making huge improvements in my career and finances, I still miss her. I feel like my family (which was only her and our dog, no kids) was literally disbanded, destroyed. She didn’t care, but I still weep from time to time. Fucking oneitis and idealism. I understand the Beta drivers that took me to marry young a girl that was my age and way above me in SMV, but still can’t get rid of the emotions that come attached to them.

    Not until long ago I still had the hopes of we starting all over again, with me being this time the captain of the relationship. That’s why slowly realizing that it’s not happening has been hurting big time. Eating my tears by myself alone.

    Today I was feeling down because of the divorce filing. But this post throws a lot of hope and light in my situation.

    Most likely I would’ve never been able to really straigthen the ship’s direction and take command as captain. So it’s relatively a good thing that we could get out without major costs (no assets to divide, no kids; only 6 years of my income spent in keeping up with a lavish lifestyle and saving nothing). If on top of that I add that I an 28 y.o. and as a consequence of the shipwreck I got Red Pill awareness (and am in the long process of implementing it and rewiring my beliefs), maybe I really got a deal. It rationally makes sense, but still hurts a lot, big time.

    Thanks Rollo.

  43. @Excailbur

    I’ve always laughed over the past couple of years when I see comments on various manosphere blogs and forums telling guys to just “keep frame,” “step up their alpha game,” or “find an 18 year old virgin to marry”. As if any of those things will work on a timeline of years and reverse the greater social trends we’re seeing regarding marriage, divorce, and open hypergamy.

    There’s absolutely no reason (going forward from 2015) for guys who are uncommitted to ever enter into a marriage or serious monogamous LTR. The sex is going to eventually become infrequent or non-existent, and the constant nagging and bitchiness is going to make the companionship of your male friends or going out alone more desirable. There’s also the strong possibility that your significant other could be going on Tinder or other similar sites for just a few minutes a day in order to get dick on demand. That type of technology is very new in the grand scheme of things, and I’ll never understand why men would embrace monogamy in our current social and technological environment.

  44. “that in a marriage with a woman that sees you as the nice guy to relax with, the likelihood of changing that is low.”

    *this is for entertainment purposes only. none of the following is true*

    this is tough stuff. red pill can be brutal but it is necessary. “relaxing” = lazy failure. a sign of age, falling T levels, weak frame. watching garbage/sports on t.v. is a low point. there are so many things to do in this world and so little time to do it.

    I can’t blame women for calling us out on our shit. when guys are young they are full of life and that’s exciting to be around. it’s infectous. we all know women want our energy, our power. this gives them the tingles.

    how is she supposed to get wet when she sees you sprawled out on the couch killing your brain cells with t.v. and padding your gut with gmo beer? that sure wasn’t what it was like when you were banging her in high school/college. try to look at it from her point of view. guys get complacent and lazy. that is not attractive. we can rationalize all we want but we make the choice to slow down. it’s like her getting fat. we despise her for it.

    if you are red pill she will never make meeting demands (your earning paper currency, a house, material stuff) a factor in getting her best sex. heartiste talks about skittles man. I was/am cheese fries man. forget giving her anything. as a teen she wants to steal money from her dad and give it to you so you can buy drugs and fuck her in her parents bed. she gets tingles from the guy with passion, drive and a lust for the wonders of the world without regard for what society thinks is right. all that other stuff is a trap and materialism is the ultimate shit test.

    if you’ve got the alpha that’s all she needs. she doesn’t want all that other crap. not really. not down in her core. none of those things existed when her strategy was fixed. treat her like men treated women 20,000 years ago and she’ll respond. money has nothing to do with attraction. the guy on welfare in the U.S. has more than most guys on earth. lots of dirt poor indians, chinese, etc getting laid like crazy though

    I am reluctant to share personal details but the captain inspired me. * this is for entertainment purposes only* I suspect there are many men in situations like mine, but we don’t hear from them because they don’t come here. they’ve never heard of red pill because they are red pill.

    I’m mid 30s, married 12 years ($500 wedding, $60 dress). no kids (my choice. i will have them in my 40s with an early 20s girl i don’t marry). wife still fits into her size 4 wedding dress easily. she is the classic midwest small town religious hb8.5 that heard nothing but awkward approaches since she grew into her long legs at 16. she oozes sex. the best fuck i ever had by far. it somehow seems new and different every time even after thousands of times. she is mind blowing in bed. i’ve heard the same about her mom.

    I would easily be classified as an emotional abuser (physical as well). I am the opposite of the safe guy to “relax” with. I am constantly growing but haven’t really changed since she met me at 19. Unemployed and unemployable drug user, drive old crappy car, provide nothing material, don’t take her on vacations, don’t buy her birthday, anniversary, valentines presents or even cards. Basically a free loading demanding uprepdictable asshole.

    she is so happily brainwashed that she doesn’t have a smartphone, a face book, doesn’t watch t.v. works all day and then comes home and cooks from scratch (she is incredible in the kitchen), she sews, cleans, does my laundry every week. basically a 50s housewife who also brings home money to support me and my outrageous goals.

    anecdote that is by no means unusual: last night she pulled the potatoes out of the water and had to let them dry for 10 minutes. she tells me she’s free for 10, makes the BJ motion with her hand. she gets on her knees and I fuck her face. hard. she’s gagging and I blast the back of her throat. she swallows and goes back to her potatoes. i’ve been doing stuff like that since the day we met and never changed.

    I push her around, I hit her, choke her. I call her names. yell at her until she cries. I’ve raped her many times over the years and afterwards she thanks me and tells me it’s exactly what she needed. she would call me “aggressive” and “indifferent”.

    I’m an animal. Totally irresponsible. I quit jobs whenever I feel like it. She can’t count on me for anything but excitment and nasty pounding sex. She has $20 in her checking account and she is the happiest woman I’ve ever known. smiling, singing to herself all the time. she follows me around the house saying she just wants to be by me. There is literally nothing I could do to lose her. I can fuck other women, get arrested, get us into debt, throw away our stuff when I feel like it, pick up and move to new cities because I feel like it, anything I want. I am always on the hunt for new women but I haven’t found one that even comes close to her. BJs in the car, in public places, outside in the woods, in the morning, before bed, anytime anywhere. On the rare rare occasions she says no I know she’s just playing a game and wants me to take her so I do. she orgasms. It’s fucked up. I’ve been raping girlfriends since I was 15. I didn’t understand why they would go home and then call me and tell me they loved me and say they want to come over again the next night. I understand now.

    It’s always been like this. She wanted into my world and I let her. She almost never complains, never questions my judgment, does anything I ask. She’s committed felonies for me, kept her mouth shut even when being arrested and questioned, passed every test I could think of. she is loyal to a fault and really has no idea how hot she is. her older sisters were brutally hot too and they both went alpha fux then beta bux. One is divorced and the other is typically bitchy unhappy despite having “it all”.

    Every so often I’ll get that feeling like I really did find a special snowflake. Then I remember to chase young tail and treat her like shit and fuck her brains out because that’s what she really wants and needs from me. That’s why I come here, to be reminded how women are so I can stay focused on me and my goals and dreams and be ready to game a hot 20 year old when I meet the right one.

    I never stop pushing, exploring and challenging myself and all she cares about is what I’m going to get into next. my dreams are her dreams. she never asks for anything.

    Guys here are right. Focus on yourself. Be a badass motherfucker and never apologize for anything you do. Ever. Take what you want from the world. I had no idea what I was doing had a name until I found the red pill a year and a half ago. then everything I had been doing since I was in junior high made sense. everything rollo, heartiste, et al say is true.

    Never do anthing for a woman. They hate it. They see the behavior for what it is. Supplicating deceptive pussy hungry bullshit. She will never respect a man who acts on anyones behalf but his own. Never listen to women. Ever. Just act in your own best interest at all times, take what you want, constantly grow as a man and pussy becomes an afterthought.

    and I rarely say I love you. she says goodnight, I love you. I just grunt or tell her to go sleep on the couch because she’s annoying me.

    I eat delicious hot homemade food every night. amazing sexual release on demand. plus she has excellent taste in music. marriage can be great for men as long as she’s the one proposing and she’s so scared of you that involving the state in your marriage never enters her head. she should be confident that if she called the cops or got a lawyer that you’d kill her and no one would find her body (remember women love serial killers). As long as you’re always ready to walk away you’ll never have to. She won’t respect you if you compromise, especially in your sexual strategy. She should always be the one compromising. If she has a problem with anything tell her to get the fuck out.

    I got married on my terms and it’s worked out pretty well so far. When I’m no longer attracted to her I’ll divorce her and never remarry as I know to walk away from the casino after I’ve won a game of chance. The girls who grow up connected to the web and their phones are hopeless. If my wife had grown up with that I suspect things would be different but maybe not. doesn’t matter. it is what it is.

    I guess my point is that I’m at my best when I’m not thinking about my sexual strategy but just being it. like brand says, “I am fuck”.

    women made a huge tactical error by talking about their strategy. going sandberg made them even more vulnerable than they were before. before they used to just “be it” but now they’re analyzing it and broadcasting it. that is weak, like the guys who analyze instead of just letting their animal nature take over.

    just “be fuck” and show no fear. wet panties means societal progress. we may not be able to see it now but they evolved to bring out the best in our manliness. testosterone made the modern world. don’t believe the bullshit about family stability and society crumbling without beta providers or any of that shit. Anyone who says they can predict the future is full of shit. the koan about the guy who breaks his leg is a perfect example of the vagaries of life. there is nothing to fix because nothing is broken. evolve and thrive like our ancestors. and remember none of them ever relaxed on the couch watching netflicks.

  45. @Mark Minter, considering the tone of your wife’s posts on InsanityBytes’ comment threads you’ll pardon my being incredulous about how effective you seem to think the Rational Male Fighting Gloves really are for you.

  46. I have a co-worker, a female professional in her early thirties who confides in me. Her hypergamy is open and there for all to see. She out-earns her husband, pays the bills and makes all the important decisions. She admitted to me that she married him because her clock was ticking and she wanted a baby. She admitted she “settled” for him. Of course, she dated a bad boy when younger. The marriage is predictably playing out; she is hating the beta, sex is declining and/or sex is a reward for his doing the bitch-work around the house. It is fascinating, because she explicitly says she doesn’t want to be the “man” in the relationship. She wants him to lead, but of course she can’t say that. You can see her yearning for him to “just get it.” I’m predicting divorce in the next five years. If I knew him, I’d send him the Rationale Male book, but even then, I’d say his alpha marriage-correcting ship has sailed. Its all so predictable and transparent with the red pill glasses.

  47. @Rollo- I was speaking of “sexual ledger inequity”- as in, the girl has been on the carousel far longer than the guy was alpha, and her history is wilder and more extensive.

    Is that an intractable source of resentment in the guy, that would preclude a relationship and necessitate a NEXT?

  48. @Karl

    If she does, and things end up working out, then it looks like one way for men who have been placed in a beta provider role by their wives to change the relationship is to shake things up like this. Step out on them as if you’re Bill Clinton in his prime, with no apologies. I know this is a dangerous strategy, but if you can pull it off, I think it’s a workable one. Comments?

    Success in this all depends on what frame has existed, I would guess. I doubt this would work for men who have been beta-frame their entire lives, and married someone who pigeonholed them as such.

  49. I wonder if the Captain isn’t being a little harsh on everyone involved? He says he’s still having sex a few times a week. That doesn’t happen to men who have been broken on the wheel of marriage. Maybe the sex isn’t as hot as it was, but heck, it’s still there. His wife is surely thoughtless as all hell to say that he’s the BB to the past AF’s, and she may be one of those women who just open their mouths and out come the words (“the woodwork squeaks / and out come the freaks”).

    Anyway, if all women do hypergamy, then it’s a feature, not a bug, and as such it says nothing about the good Captain, or any other man. A man who gets married expecting to get the hot sex she gave out to previous ONS’s is, by universal hypergamy, being dumb: he doesn’t get married for hot sex, but for children, social validation, or maybe because she’s a fellow rogue to fight the world with. If you want hot sex, go have a one-night-stand. If you want to be the AF in your wife’s life, then be her back-door man. Because the husband role is by definition about BB. (Some men get married but don’t do being husbands, such as the novelist and ex-jailbird Jeffrey Archer or the discharged bankrupt and presidential candidate Donald Trump.)

    Which doesn’t mean she isn’t a total bitch for throwing her hypergamy on his face. It’s pretty much the top of the “Way too much sharing, honey” list. The Captain may want to figure out if she has the social skills to help him in his career, or even the personality and temperament to be bearable to live with over the twenty-plus years needed to raise a child into a useful person. It strikes me that’s maybe what the real issue is. In which case, detonation is a little over the top, and a sharp word about the need for tact, and filtering thoughts first, might be more in order.

    Anyway, Rollo, I finally understood your act with this post. Keep it up, because it’s a good act that lets you say things that just don’t sound as good when the current batch of writers over at RoK say them their way.

  50. @bob August 3rd, 2015 at 2:57 pm

    “The number of girls who claim to be kinky and into S&M is incredible. In truth, I doubt they are really into the kink, it is just the rationalization hamster at work. They have learned that in our culture, having a kink means you can’t help it, which means you’re not responsible for it, which means you can’t be held responsible or shamed for it. So by claiming to be kinky girls get to escape responsibility and follow their desire to be submissive to men.”

    By kinky/S&M they mean 50 shades, and since it sold 125M copies and the movie made a lot, means there are a lot of girls into that. On gonewild there is another picture every 10 minutes with a jeweled butt plug, it seems to be the new fashion accessory, and they define that as kinky. Hardcore kinky/S&M is still about 2% female, many overweight. You are correct that when they say kinky/S&M they want to be submissive, but only to who they perceive is an alpha.

  51. All women do Hypergamy; how they go about it and how they sell it to men are two different things.

    “When I was looking for a life partner, my idea was date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But they’d never marry me. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it cames time to settle down, I found you; someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. Guys like you are a dime a dozen, but trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

    “Woah honey, way too sharing! I was happy in my Blue Pill ignorance.”

    Got it.

  52. There are no married alphas. There, I said it, and I stand by it, despite the kerfuffle of butt-hurt commenters and nay-sayers that may arise. You men need to understand this, and understand it well. They cannot exist. They exist only in mythology and this blog. They are a fiction. Tingles only go so far. Women will be only so loyal depending their options. Every woman has her limits. The husband serves his wife at her discretion, with the threat of the real alpha, the State, ever present and all-powerful. Sure, she may enjoy the romance and tingles of letting her hubby dominate and play her alpha and choose what to order for dinner, what movie to watch, what position to have sex, etc., but don’t kid yourselves – She knows the score. Every woman that gets married knows. Women know that marriage benefits them, and only them. Again, if you don’t believe me, just push her beyond her limit, and see what happens. If her tolerance is breached, she may very well decide to end the marriage and cash in her chips. Remember, the legal system highly incentivizes women to end their marriage – There is a whole army of government bureaucrats and lawyers paid by you to help her. Society and culture encourages the worst in female nature. It may never happen, but it could happen just because of something as trivial as not stacking the dishwasher right, or you buying the wrong brand of tampons that she sent you out to get one evening, or her just being bored with you. There is a 50% divorce rate for first marriages – Are you willing to take those odds? Women have absolutely no qualms about taking anything and everything from a man. In her mind, you’re just a man, and your purpose is to serve her no matter what, whenever she wants, even if that means for years after divorce or even for the rest of your life. They will have no empathy or sympathy for you being in the state that they put you in after divorce.

    These married men who think they are so alpha are esconced in a bubble wrap of dangerous delusion and a false sense of security, blissfully unaware of the real power dynamics at work in marriage. Unfortunately, many of these men may most likely be in for the biggest surprise of their life.

    How many times have your heard from divorced men: “I didn’t think that she would do this to me?”

  53. And again I’ll say marriage existed before the bureaucracy did. In a contemporary context I don’t disagree, but the concept of marriage long predates the social controls marriage represents today.

    The capacity to strip a man of his livelihood does not preclude whether he has an Alpha mindset. You could make exactly the same claims about men who willingly join the military or make a legally binding commitment to a business venture; are they all Betas for doing so?

  54. I doubt any woman would be sympathetic at a man telling her at a night club: “I’ve been hitting every hot girl at this party and I’ve been rejected every single time. Now I’m talking to you because you are substantially uglier than them, and I think I can’t aspire to anything better if I want to get laid this night.”

    Open Hipergamy is not just an instinct, is an insult. There are things that can’t be said if you “love” your partner. If you disrespect your partner it can only mean two things: either she doesn’t love you or worst, she has a lack of empathy for men. She has not the ability to understand your feelings.

    This is not about being Red Pill. Any Blue Pill man can understand that.

  55. @ Captain – “I picked her up in a bar and fucked her hard the first night, it’s just moving in 6 months later that all of a sudden you become ‘non-threatening relationship material guy’.”

    This IS part of their ‘plan’. Let’s face it – betas can on occasion pick up and fuck like a champion – but that doesn’t exactly set the alpha frame for any marriage. You were expected to fuck her hard and give her those initial tingles. She still wants to semi enjoy that maintenance sex she is required to give you to keep you around and supplicating; until it eventually becomes unbearable and they parachute out and take everything you have built and invested in.

    I also tend to agree with Excalibur.

  56. The purpose of basic training is to create the perfect beta.

    The difference between marriage/the military and a business venture is that in a business venture the parties have control over the terms of the contract and the right to enforcement. Unless outright criminal behaviour is involved only commensurate fiscal responsibility is at risk and in a corporation even that may be limited to the loss of what you put in.

    In marriage/the military, the government controls the terms of the contract, which it can change and enforce post hoc. Not only do the terms you sign strip you of personal agency, the terms you sign are not the terms you have to live with. Violation of those terms often result in incarceration, and, in the case of the military, even death.

    ” . . . marriage existed before the bureaucracy did.”

    Ancient Egypt is notable because neither the state nor the church (and from the pyramid building era onwards there was little difference between the two) played a role in marriage.

    It is also notable for being an open hypergamous culture with no concept of virginity, but without the state involved in enforcement they made it work well enough for thousands of years.

  57. @Becoming the Captain of My Boat

    We should talk. I’m in a similar situation. I have no idea how to exchange private information via this public forum though.

  58. One thing about 50 shades and the 125M copies sold. Wives didn’t read it, rush out to the sex store, buy a little bondage stuff, and that evening say to their betas, now do what you want to me. It was mommy porn to the exclusion of their husbands.

    The SNL Mother’s Day skit:

    To married men in the Captain’s chair, as above, look at your sex life. Getting the quantity and quality you want, then you have turned things around. Getting starfish duty sex, you are a beta to her.

    When I’m running alpha, I get more sex from my wife than you can imagine. When I was running beta, she developed a mysterious aliment that limited sex, that the doctors said was all her in head. If you are not going to pound town and getting regular BJs, you are a beta to her (or she has a real medical problem). Another indicator is the degree of attention you get from other women, and when you are getting that you can put yourself in social situations where your wife sees it. You don’t need to say anything (no “hey, I think Amanda was interested in me”), wives automatically notice much like you would notice if a guy was going down on your wife.

    On the drive home:
    Her: I noticed you talking a lot to Amanda
    Him: Yeah, she’s nice
    Her: What were you talking about?
    Him: Movies
    Her: What movies?
    Him: You know, Star Trek, Avengers, 50 Shades, Ant Man
    Her: 50 Shades?
    Him: Yes, she said even though it’s a chick flick I might enjoy it

    Later:
    Her: You know that thing you wanted to try, I would like to try it

    Bonus, a 50 Shades SNL skit that did not air:

  59. @James M

    You got off easy. Count your blessings and never get married again. Kids change everything. They give the wife infinitely more power from the state. You’ll be fine.

  60. “And again I’ll say marriage existed before the bureaucracy did. In a contemporary context I don’t disagree, but the concept of marriage long predates the social controls marriage represents today.”

    My post above was directed at what marriage and what the wife and husband relationship is today, in the contemporary context as you say.

    Of course marriage existed in olden times, prior to the modern feminism movement and its manifestation in modern marriage and divorce laws and the anti-male family courts. In these earlier times, men had the legal authority and power in the marriage, and rightly so. The husbands were the undeniable heads of their families and this worked very effectively.

    Feminism and weak, ignorant, sycophant men have given women essentially all of the power in modern marriage and thereby destroyed it.

    Women naturally already have a certain power over men, their sex appeal, their proclivity to manipulation, and also taking advantage of mans’ instinct to be a provider and protector of women (and children). The advent of feminism in modern times has created a power imbalance in favor of women to the detriment of men – and women are not good stewards of power of any kind, especially over men.

    The biggest mistake most men make is looking into those big doe eyes, at that weaker frame, at that child like voice and then telling themselves they’re loved for who they are.

    The second biggest mistake men make is genuflecting on bended knee, with sword drawn, to protect that which would gladly destroy him for positive economic gain.

    The third biggest mistake men make is in thinking they’re more cunning and calculating than women. Men deeply underestimate the callousness and glee with which women will destroy men’s lives for profit and/or entertainment.

    “Nature has given women so much power that the law has very wisely given them little.” – Samuel Johnson.

    “The capacity to strip a man of his livelihood does not preclude whether he has an Alpha mindset. You could make exactly the same claims about men who willingly join the military or make a legally binding commitment to a business venture; are they all Betas for doing so?”

    Marriage is different than joining the military or forming a business. Of course, marriage is a contract, but it is specifically for the relationship between a husband and wife. Women get essentially all of the benefits of marriage, whereas men are given increased burdens, responsibilities and obligations. Yes, men can be legally affected when joining the military or forming a business venture, but men also have legal rights in these relationships, where essentially none exist for the man in a marriage contract.

    There are no modern day “alpha” males who are married. The only kind of “Alpha” can be considered a true Alpha is a patriarch, i.e., a self-confident, competent man who is in charge of his own life and that of his family. He embodies the Four Cardinal Virtues: bravery, self-control, prudence, justice. The Romans called these men pater familias, and it was enforced by law. It no longer is, to the detriment of men, women and society.

  61. “The capacity to strip a man of his livelihood does not preclude whether he has an Alpha mindset. You could make exactly the same claims about men who willingly join the military or make a legally binding commitment to a business venture; are they all Betas for doing so?”

    And no, I would not consider men in the military or in a business venture necessarily “betas.” There are differences between these arrangements and marriage as indicated above.

  62. @Excalibur

    There are no modern day “alpha” males who are married. The only kind of “Alpha” can be considered a true Alpha is a patriarch, i.e., a self-confident, competent man who is in charge of his own life and that of his family.

    You are saying there are no modern day married men who are self-confident, competent and in charge of his own life and that of his family.

  63. @Excalibur Thanks for speaking some sense. The first rule of red pill ought to be: DO NOT MARRY. Why the fuck would you abdicate your masculine power to the state? The state can effectively force you to give up “frame.” The state can strip of you of nearly all wealth. The state can turn you into a cuckold.
    NAMALT contradicts another well known redpill maxim: AWALT.

  64. @Rollo Tomassi

    Joining the military is rarely beta. From the n>30 sample of military men and women I’ve known, they are far less patriotic than one would assume. Many are ruthlessly pragmatic and career focused. I’m talking about enlisted and officer alike. Free technical training, high quality work experience and/or a security clearance is a ticket to the upper middle class.
    As for the poor men and women who make up the majority of the enlisted ranks, most could care less about “service.” It is a paycheck and a way out.
    The military is fantastic investment if played correctly. Marriage is only a losing proposition and to enter it knowingly is beta.

  65. @SD
    Obamacare is a bachelor tax. I’m not sure feminism can just continue into infinity. It relies on state support for enforcement of its policies and the Western state is bankrupt. Did anybody in 1962 predict the fall of the USSR only a generation later? Feminism is an edifice built on an unstable foundation and it is bound to fall.

    Makes me think of an old poem…

    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    ‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!’
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

  66. Rollo, just want to thank you for your post. Like many, I’ve contemplated what can be done about the decline going on all around us. I’ve gone MGTOW except for seeing escorts. I’ve said that before. But what can be done ? And for those already in relationships, like marriage … what can be done. And you got it right … as soon as you see the writing on the wall … NUKE IT.

    What you said in this post is very important and hopefully can make a difference. Its a wakeup call to ALL MEN. In marriage, when you are cheated on, when the sex dissipates to nothing, when she takes you for granted, when she disrespects you to your face, when she requests an “open” marriage, whatever … there are lots and lots of clues that its over. AND IT WILL BE OVER … when she decides and then your life will be destroyed. Blindsided. So men, wake the fuck up. When you see these signs, realize. Its over. Its better for you to nuke than be nuked upon when you don’t expect it. Grow some balls. Man up. Its over and it will never go back to the way it was. The trash is at the curb. WAKE THE FUCK UP AND GET IT OVER WITH … ITS DONE ANYWAY !!!!

    No more screaming. But yeah. Its over. Get it over. Nuke it. Get your life in order. Move on. Kids make it difficult but by taking the initiative you have some sense of control. You have your self respect and use that to build on.

    This message needs to be repeated. Men need to start initiating 70% of divorces …

    Its gonna take drastic measures to turn this mess around, this is a start.

    Thanks Rollo. You got balls. About time some men started standing up and doing the right thing.

    Rocket

  67. I would say marriage, or civil unions likely predate language. Most social customs, though distorted by modern living, are older than humanity and existed in our direct predecessors. The handshake is little more than a modernized version of demonstrating you mean no harm. The hand wave is little more than an acknowledgement that you see someone. Gathering around a campfire feels good because humans have been doing it since before humans were fully human, it’s in our blood to enjoy fellowship around fire and food. Marriage is no different than these simple behaviors we take for granted. It was never for love, it was to bond couples into social building blocks. Marriage was always a social contract with your community.

  68. It’s still a shock to hear Rollo tell a man to nuke his marriage. The red pill is harsh and brutal but sometimes it brings a smile to my face.
    Sometimes it is best to not just “Think of the children!” If women truly thought of the children, I doubt they’d initiate 70 percent of all the divorces…

  69. You know, in thinking back I think the first time I saw hypergamy so blatant was in a family I was enjoying – I hooked up with the older sister, then the mother and finally the youngest sister. They were convenient, and so was I – no entanglements. Basically I was a dick to satisfy their needs, and they had what I wanted, so it was good. But the youngest knew what she wanted – targeted a pre-med and did the whole “I want to wait till we’re married schtick” with him all the way through his residency. Of course, I was riding her like a pony – fucked her every night leading up to her wedding when she wasn’t on any protection. Really turned her on to walk down the aisle with another man’s cum in her.

    So she tells everyone she got pregnant by her husband on her wedding night. Of course she has a lot to lose since he’s a cardiologist and pulls down big bucks which she enjoys spending. But I had no problem with her – I told her I enjoyed her pussy but wouldn’t be able to deal with her shit, that was fine with her.

    But I learned back then just exactly how women are – that family was the most open about it, but after you know what to look for you can pick out if any woman is trying it on you. I’ve always been the “dirty little secret” when it comes to women – that’s a good place to be, you’re never the targeted schmuck but the one that gets the cream – or gives them the cream if you prefer. The women in my core group, are my nod to the convenience of having women at your beck and call, and is as close to marriage as I’ll ever get. But that’s ideal for me. Anyway – good post…

  70. @ Just Saying – A married buddy of mine was fucking a work colleague senseless 3 months before she was getting married. He even got invited to her wedding and gave her a wink as she walked down the isle. To top it off, she gave him a lift home after the reception and gave him a BJ in her car. I never underestimate the depravity a woman will stoop to in this regard.

    @ tom – they detonate 70% of marriages because they usually get the kids by default. The man usually gets blindsided, while she’s been calculating and planning this all out for months, if not years – including a few false domestic violence accusations at the penultimate hour, just to make sure things pan out in her favor.

  71. Picking up a future wife in a bar of all places, and believing she hadn’t “dated the assholes”? Why would she be alone in a bar and go with you (self-professed asshole) otherwise? In this situation everything must be clear from the beginning. It reminds me of one man who stole a younger woman from her husband, married her, and in ten years she switched him for another man! He should have thought before marrying a 100% proved cheater that she could cheat on him as well as with him.

    @ADI
    It’s good you don’t have a Madonna-whore complex (if she’s not a virgin she’s a dirty slut, nothing in-between!) like the American puritans. Who else is both obsessed with sexuality and so ashamed of it they use the word “DIRTY” to describe it? That’s screwed up. And their notions of male vs female notch count and “80% of men waiting for the one” even contradict statistics, that says the median number of sexual partners is higher for 25-34 y.o. men than for women. In real life, no man ever, including the husband, was interested in my sexual past, and I was not interested in theirs. No one asked. Who cares? Past should be buried and only brought out when you’re old and writing memoirs.

  72. Oh, and lets not forget this one:

    “The state can turn you into a cuckold.”

    Regarding, child support and paternity fraud, Youtube is plastered with videos a mile thick and any Google search is stacked to the rafters of men regaling everyone with their tales of being forced to pay child support for children that aren’t theirs. For a wife to have another mans’ child is beyond ridiculous and evil. And for the State to be complicit and condone this behavior is really insidious. A woman is not punished for bad behavior due to default divorce and the man has essentially no recourse in this matter.

    I can’t believe paternity fraud is so rampant as some may claim since it is easily exposed and paternity test kits are so available (I think one can even get a test kit from the local drug store). I can’t imagine women even contemplating doing this, thinking they can get away with it, and thinking that the child won’t be affected. But I am a man that is sane, rational, civilized and moral.

  73. “Nature has given women so much power that the law has very wisely given them little.” – Samuel Johnson.

    This quote obviously does not apply today, since women are given a fuck-ton of power over men today, but it shows that men in earlier times understood female nature very well.

  74. “@Excalibur – I presume that includes Rollo too then. The question is not merely checking about no exceptions. But takings your view has implications – it discredits not on those commentators, but anyone else too. And leaves an open question how far exactly to take that thought.”

    Yup, even Rollo and others with their vehement protestations to the contrary. No exceptions. The State is the 900 pound gorilla in the room in a marriage. If the husband isn’t aware of it, the wife is surely cognizant of this fact, and she will assuredly educate him when and if the need arises. For a man to be “alpha,” he must have authority and power (at least in my definition of alpha – maybe Rollo is using a different definition?) – marriage eviscerates authority and power from a man. It takes more than sex appeal to make a man alpha.

  75. @Excalibur

    There are lots of alpha males in prison. Just because they are in jail does not mean they aren’t alpha. The state has them beat for sure, but nobody ever said alphas where invincible. Guys like Rollo got married before the feminist apocalypse was as obvious as it is today. Saying a true alpha will not get married today makes some sense, but older alphas simply find themselves in jail. The fact that they are alpha keeps them from becoming the prison bitch, just like in real jail.

    I would also argue that it is possible to be blue pill but naturally alpha. Post red pill, those alpha’s are going to be stuck living with the results of their previously made blue pill decisions. With the blue pill out of their system, they can begin living as alpha’s should live, but they will still have blue pill baggage from a legal standpoint. Again, more alpha’s in jail. Their alphaness will prevent them from getting raped while in jail just because they are alpha. Eventually they can get paroled and be back out on the street.

    To piggyback on another post, Obama-care is a bachelor tax. All men are subjected to the power of the state. As this sort of legislation increases, by your definition, no man is or will ever be alpha again, because in the end, we are all individually powerless against the state.

    Speaking literally now, I think that is why the state jails so many of our true alphas. It is also why boys with alpha tendencies are purposely punished in schools or simply drugged out of their minds today. They might lead a revolt if they were out on the streets en masse.

  76. “When the Matrix was first built, there was a man born inside who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit.. “

  77. @Excalibur
    I googled Samuel Johnson. He became a trophy husband of a 46 year old rich widow at 26, on her promise to provide for him. Not surprising. I bet he ignored the existence of all the maids, seamstresses and launderesses and menial workers who were used like horses and didn’t have a tenth of power his wife gained by inheritance. It’s the same as when Islam apologists point at rich Muslim women in Dubai (“look how she sits at an air-conditioned home all day and wears designer clothes under her hijab – Sharia is a great deal for women!”) and forget Afghan peasant girls.

  78. Becoming the Captain of My Boat

    August 3rd, 2015 at 12:21 pm

    I don’t even know what to say. My first instinct is to defend myself, as there are some details that are different about my marriage versus most of the guys that come in here, namely I wasn’t super blue pill when we first hooked up, I picked her up in a bar and fucked her hard the first night, it’s just moving in 6 months later that all of a sudden you become ‘non-threatening relationship material guy’.”

    Wifing up the chick you ran through the first day you met – at a bar – is super blue pill. It’s dark blue. Certain parts of society refer to it as “wifing up a hoe”.

  79. A man always has authority over himself, even married men. You want authority? Always be willing into walk away at a moments notice. Don’t explicate that you have a foot out the door. Simply be prepared to start over on your own. So prepared that you are comfortable with the thought of leaving it all behind today. That is half the battle. If she knows you wont tolerate shit, and you would rather burn it all down than give her half plus child support, her desire to eject will diminish substantially. Of course if she is a raging bitch from the start, you’d be stupid to roll the dice on her and it will get worse.

    Ultimately, if genetic legacy is your goal my scorched earth outlook is simple: if marriage is likely to end in divorce, child support, and visitation, why not get a baby momma or two? How much worse could that be than family court and divorce? You will still be on the hook for child support, but if they are your children that seems a fair enough trade. But no alimony, no splitting of assets, no legal hoop jumping.

    I’m old school and rather traditional, so I’m on round two of legally sanctioned slavery. Thing is for me the fear of divorce is gone. My current wife has her kids, I have mine, and we aren’t having any together. So the weapon I feared the most during my divorce is now gone. My wife works, so alimony isn’t an issue. And if things go south, I won’t owe a dime in support. So yeah, I did it a second time. I prefer a steady partner over random women in and out of my life, and frankly after finding MMSL and RM (post divorce but just prior to marriage #2) I wanted to roll the dice again. I thought it out, made plans for a contingency, and took the plunge. This round is 180 degrees different from the first. I set frame and expectations early. I made it clear I would never again be held captive by a marriage license. But I wouldn’t recommend marriage to any man. I’d love to support it, but there is no way to deny its a piss poor deal for men.

    Note: be carful about moving baby momma in. Some states still have common law marriage in place. Know your states law before any cohabitation with a woman.

  80. Rollo,

    Have you already written, or has anyone discussed the finality with which women judge men alpha or beta? The question in my mind is why is changing a woman’s mind about a man such an intractable problem? It’s almost a cliche for a round woman to lose the weight and regain her figure, or a young ugly duckling of a woman to grow into herself and for men to suddenly start chasing her, and men who rejected her in her past to find her worthy.

    However, women are not like this, or at least I believe that is the running thoughts in the writing and comments here so far. Women judge men, and that’s that. I don’t have the insight to understand precisely why that is the case, and because I don’t my gut reaction (which is to judge women from a moral standpoint for their inflexibility) finds no footing.

  81. So, this post kind of hits it on the head for me, instead of nibbling around edges as I sometimes do when talking about it.

    I don’t have dead bedroom, but it is on life support. Sex about once a month, twice if I push. Could be more, certainly, but at this point I am not that interested. It is not that my wife is unattractive; she has managed to keep herself in decent shape at her age, particularly compared to the fat women I see all around me. She just doesn’t do sexy.

    I just don’t see a lot of interest from her except when she ovulating, and frankly, I have given up trying to encourage, pursue, whatever. It is, as Rollo says, it is not worth the squeeze to get the mediocre juice.. She is not very passionate, period, not overly sexual, so my attitude has become, “I like sex, but this is not enough to really interest me.”

    About a year back I came out and told my wife that my impression of how she feels about me is not that she loves me, but is fond of me. She was…angry and shocked.

    “How could you say that?” she tells me. Reminded me of the times years ago when we would have an argument of how she felt about something, and when I argued logically about it, showing it seemed incorrect, she wanted validation for her feelings. My feelings?

    Here’s the thing. My wife is not a shrew, she is not materialistic (for a woman), and she is a basically decent person, but she’s a woman, and I see how she acts like every other one in regards to hypergamy. She is not chasing other guys, I truly believe it is unlikely (not impossible) that she would cheat, but for all that, I ain’t happy.

    So? I need to change things, right? That is pretty much what everyone agrees is needed, although they debate somewhat on how, to what degree, what the results will be, etc.

    And thus we come to the post.

    How easy IS that?

    Not only to change yourself at the core, but to then push back against the pushback you will get along the line from pretty much everyone else in your life? To possibly up end your entire life, because, in the end, that is very likely to happen if you attempt full Alpha, right? Especially if you achieve it. People don’t just say, “Oh, my. I LOVE the new you!” At least not many people you already know.

    I have resisted improving myself, not completely, but for whatever progress I make, I also backslide because I am not eager for upheaval. That, it and of itself may be Beta, right? Because Alpha is “no fucks given”.

    But as I wrote before, I know that a transformation will be difficult and take work, but I also realize that at the end, I may further pry open the Pandora box and once I see what it is inside…chaos.

    What I mean is I can see the world in a more Red Pill lens, but I have yet to really taste it, except here in the there in very small measure. If I were to really progress, to really have a one night stand with a woman hotter, and particularly more passionate, than my wife, is there really any going back?

    But Rollo says based on where I am, there is no going back anyway, not really. Circumstances…

    Oh, fuck this. I am tired of talking about it, writing about it.

    You want to hear a little bit about Hypergamy?

    My wife started watching this show called “Little Houses” or something, where people try to find houses that are literally the size of a small apartment. She talks about it and jokes (not entirely joking) that something like that should be our set-up when we retire. We will have our own little houses next to each other, with a patio area in the middle for getting together.

    She thinks it funny when she suggests it, and I think it’s funny when I tell her that one day she may wake up and find my little house has disappeared, with no forwarding address. We both laugh, but how much truth is going on beneath the surface?

    Because, frankly, if living apart is ideal, honey why NOT the fuck now? Why not while I am (relatively) young, and can actually do things instead of being and old fuck (apologies to any old fucks here)?

    Little by little, despite kids, despite the various tendrils of obligation and expectation from extended family, I am realizing that while I have far from the worst deal in this, it is still one I am not happy with, and why should I settle for not being happy?

    I can’t blame this all on my marriage, by the way, far from it. It has been said here many times before, but Red Pill is much more than intersexual dynamics, it is a viewpoint on life, and my viewpoint on life has been fucking Blue Pill for almost the entirety, and THAT viewpoint has influenced everything that followed, from relations to women in general and to my dissatisfaction in the current situation.

    Well, fuck, I am truly tired of hearing myself talk at this point, but I get the point of the post, AND the title picture.

    If you truly want something in life, there is ALWAYS a cost. Decide if you want to pay it or move on.

  82. “In real life, no man ever, including the husband, was interested in my sexual past, and I was not interested in theirs. No one asked. Who cares? ”

    Q.E. Fucking D.

  83. Couple of comments. First Rollo’s article is easily the most powerful that he has ever written. And dead nuts on as usual. The problem of course is that that the vast majority of men will not take his input. First, most BPers will deny what is happening right before there eyes … and TO THEM. In addition, many of those who do see the truth will not do anything because of 1) Potential Negative impacts to children and 2) The do not have the courage 3) Agree that maybe its true and the should nuke the marriage but … that happens to other people … not guys like me. They think they are immune … until they find out horribly that AWALT.

    Remember how YOU found out about the RP ? Yeah it was a harsh piece of reality kicking you in the face … many times knocking your front teeth out before you recognized it for what it is.

    So while awesome advice … you have to realize that most men while never do it.

    Second comment is this. What would really awesome is a 2 tier list. A list of things that if THEY HAPPEN TO YOU … prepare to NUKE and then NUKE. The list one be 2 tiered.

    The first tier would be:
    If this has EVER happened to you doing your marriage – NUKE. Example: cuckolded.

    The second tier would be:
    If any she does any of these things on a regular basis, then its over and NUKE. Example: dead bedroom. She never instigates sex, regularly denies, is lackluster and just goes thru the motions, uses sex to reward/punish, etc. If its dead … its only going to get worse and the dead bedroom will spread to poor treatment in other areas. This is not a recoverable situation … so NUKE.

    Anyone want to start a list ?

  84. On sexual pasts.
    In my old blue pill days, I would have gladly accepted a “sexually experienced” woman as a wife. These days, I see that the only reason to do this is to be a willing servant to Sandbergian hypergamy.
    Divorce rates in traditional marriages where the woman is a virgin are as low as 6 percent. Maybe traditionalist redpillers should convert.

  85. ADI said:

    How is the advice “Read this stuff, make yourself a better man, fuck around and “find yourself” then you can get into a LTR” for a guy different from oft-quoted sandberg’s advice to women. Essentially both of them are telling one to fuck around before settling down (as in marriage and not as in finding some one sub-par).

    Thelian said:

    In real life, no man ever, including the husband, was interested in my sexual past, and I was not interested in theirs. No one asked. Who cares? Past should be buried and only brought out when you’re old and writing memoirs.

    Willful ignorance is the best way to describe this. ADI presumes that male and female motivations for sex are the same, therefore similar behavior from each sex should be treated the same way. Thelian picks up on this and says, “well of course, no one has ever interrogated me about my sexual past, so they clearly don’t care”… so obviously we’re left to believe that men and women are the same in this respect.

    Men and women are different. Their motivations for sex are entirely different. What they get from sex is entirely different. Start from that premise and work forward and things make a lot more sense.

    Male motivation for sex is biological need, literally on par with breathing and eating. There is no escaping it, it is a biological need and it is everpresent in the male psyche. Male sexuality is pure, unadulterated biological need.

    Female motivation for sex is appropriation of whatever a male has to offer, via sharing her own female sexuality. If a male offers money, she has a price. If a male offers alpha-ness, that is acceptable. If a male offers long term-security and provisioning, she’ll have that as a fallback. Female sexuality is a nearly optional behavior entirely designed for getting something from men.

    So, would you blame any animal for working hard to put himself in a situation to easily satisfy a biological need from multiple sources as some kind of immoral behavior? Would you excuse a sentient being for using a physical asset they have to manipulate those who biologically need it, or for loaning said physical asset out at whim while promising one person that it is only theirs for life? In one situation, an animal with a biological need is simply busting his ass to satisfy that need with as much fine wine as he can get. In another, you have a peddler of a fine wine arbitrarily giving said wine away for free to some people, while on the backside promising another person that they have exclusive right to that wine in exchange for their labor. One is dishonest, the other is hard work. You can try to judge men and women by the same standard, oh lots of people try. But basic biological differences expose it as social deception.

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