Men In Demand


Well, I think I’ve teased it long enough now. If you’ve been watching my Twitter posts or you’ve payed close attention in my comment threads you already know I’m the confirmed ‘featured guest’ speaker at the first annual Man In Demand seminar on September 12th, 2015 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

I’ll be speaking and doing a Q&A along with Christian McQueen, Tanner Guzy and Goldmund. We’re doing this collectively at our own initial expense and the venue is amazing (literally on the strip across from the Bellagio). “Seminar” doesn’t begin to do this meet up justice, it’s really a well rounded Red Pill TED conference with each of us covering our respective aspects of Game, style, life applications and of course theory and Red Pill awareness.

While I’m flattered by the response thus far (the VIP tickets are already sold out), it’s not just about me – the idea we had was to give readers / attendees a collaborative all-day experience that they can benefit from on many levels. We’ve made every effort to make this meet up as affordable as possible for guys too ($47). Trust me, I know better than most how expensive a trip to Vegas can be.

You will be impressed by this venue. As you might expect, this is legitimately high-end, not a rented Elks Club hall or a La Quinta conference room.

Needless to say this event is my first (and certainly only for this year) in-person appearance. Just to allay some fears, I have no plans for ‘going public’ in the foreseeable future, so with that said, let me assure the men considering attending that we all place our highest priority on your anonymity and personal privacy. I can personally assure you there will be no media (invited or uninvited) allowed, no surprise interviews of attendees, no video recorded (and certainly not any of the attendees), and no undercover Huffington Post bloggers posing as a hostess will be hired – keep in mind this is Vegas, not Montreal (*wink*).

I know everyone always states this, but tickets really are limited and we expect a pretty full house since Vegas is a premier destination. Each one of us is very accessible and very approachable so it’s highly likely we’ll have some (not on the schedule) social gathering or club crawl after the conference too. I’ll be signing books and if you’re lucky I’ll have a bit of one of my whisky brands left for you to have a taste of too.

So, if you’re going or not, let me know what you think about this. If you have questions I’ll answer them in the comment thread over the weekend. Also, I’m doing the outline of my talk right now so if you have some suggestion about what you think I should cover let me know. I should add too that I have at least one scheduled podcast interview between now and the conference.

Hopefully I’ll see you in Vegas.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

130 comments on “Men In Demand

  1. Congrats, hope it goes well.
    The fact that we even need to consider being anonymous is unreal. Are things getting worse or better in that regard?
    Watching the gong show going down in MTL it really gives a man pause in respect of the political environment.

  2. I got a ticket on one of the previous hints a week or so ago. The VIP tickets were already sold out then. Looking forward to it.

  3. Won’t be able to go. Great idea though. You’ll probably cover anything that I could suggest. The changing atmosphere in schools and universities is something that can think of off the top of my head as important enough for emphasis. Maybe mass media influences to go along with that. Basically all the things that are messages that young males get bombarded with once they leave the presence of a father or other older male, who could be very red pill himself, that seek to regress a male back into blue pill. Like beware the sirens.
    The social gathering, I’m picturing you trying to go to sleep and being awakened by steady processing of light from headlights moving across your wall as cars pull in your drive way.
    “Guys, sorry but the seminar was over about 5 hours ago. We weren’t meeting at my house!”

  4. “The fact that we even need to consider being anonymous is unreal.”
    @ Agent P-Some people may want to be. So just that nobody’s is worried about it, keep it like that.
    Besides, there may be some people who said they couldn’t go to work for some reason and will end up at the seminar.

  5. I think that if you enjoy the first seminar you need to start organizing this in a much bigger scale and in different cities. I can sense that this will turn into a huge thing.

  6. Hey Rollo,
    Best wishes for the event.

    Was wondering if you have considered audio recording of the talks. I’m sure it’d be greatly appreciated by your readers from lands afar!

  7. Speaking of men in demand:

    Apparently that’s the OWNER OF THE SHOP taking/posting the pic of him and directing the mob. Looks like these posters worked:

    This is both surreal and awesome. I don’t even want to go out this weekend, I just want to stay in and reload RVF over and over. I’m on the edge of my seat over here lol

  8. I don’t pay too much mind to people’s typos, although I always try not to make any myself, cuz anybody can make them when you’re trying to type fast. But that “you’re” and “your” confusion really makes people look bad.

  9. Best wishes for the event, Rollo!

    This time i can’t make it, but next time you are doing another of these event(s), i will be there!

    I want to thank you for this Blog and for your efforts!
    This Blog is impressive….impressive in every respect !!!!

  10. Wishing you that your conference will be spared the kind of troubles Roosh is currently dealing with in Canada.

  11. I will not be in attendance, so I hope this kind of event makes its rounds in North America (maybe even Montreal lol) and is the start of something much bigger. I know this is a “suck up” comment, but truly both of your books are “must reads” and have changed my life forever. No disrespect to any of the other blogs, I read most of them as well, but I honestly look forward to each one of your new posts in the matter in which you write. I want to thank you for all of your work done to educate all boys/men out there, as well as the others, each has their place. I wish the conference great success and I wish I could be there to shake your hand for what you have done for me personally. And much love to all those who bought up the VIP and the other remaining seats, it shows that “men” are pushing back, being “men”, and not taking what the FI pushes towards us each day (yes, that means you too Meg Kelly). Have a few shots of the “RT Whiskey” to make the Red Pill go down that much smoother. Again, congrats, much success.
    P.S. Rosie is a Big Fat Slob/Piglet Bitch

  12. Quote: Old mcdonald

    August 7th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
    Hey Rollo,
    Best wishes for the event.
    Was wondering if you have considered audio recording of the talks. I’m sure it’d be greatly appreciated by your readers from lands afar!

    Rollo, please have some kind of full audio of all the speakers and audience questions available in the near future for this event, even if you and the other hosts need to charge a fee for it to make it workable, not all of us can make a trip to Vegas but I would bet many thousands of us would be interested in having a sort of audio book of the entire conference available to us for posterity/study.

    I can’t stress the need for this strongly enough, what you and the others are doing here very well might be historic and years/generations in the future not having well documented audio (while still anonymous) of the entirety of the event will be a huge loss. Imagine if somehow you could go back in time and have a unabridged full audio or transcript of some seminal event, almost like being there, think of the emerging college courses/scholarship on men’s rights and then realize what a rich resource a full audio record of the event will become while still being anonymous individually. Thank you in advance!

  13. I wish I could go. I have been learning a lot from both Christian and your blog as well as your books.


  14. Wish you and Christian the best. I’m sure the event will be a success. It is interesting to see a little “sibling” rivalry between you and Roosh.

  15. Heh, you asked for feedback… sounds like buncha Chad Thundercocks havin a vegas bro party. I’m sure there is a demographic for that, especially these days. And you are fooling yourselves if any of you think this does not lead to y’all’s doxxing. But do keep stirrin the pot, it needs the attention.

  16. @fuckyoumoney
    Fuckin’ A dude…the last thing the manosphere needs is some sort of half ass civil war. Sniping at each other over twitter is harmless but there can be real consequences to a doxx. Most men are employees and a doxx can destroy one’s career. We are all on the same side and have the same enemies.
    Just let the bros bro out. No need to brorape another bro…

  17. Whenever I see that picture, I just think of Frank Sinatra calling Sammy Davis “boy” and the two dudes in the middle standing there awkwardly.

  18. @YaReally

    I lol’d. I lol’d so fucking hard.


    Really bummed I won’t be able to be there. I do hope to roll the bike out west some time within the next year or two though, so I hope I can swing through the area and grab a drink with you then. In the meantime, gonna try to finish editing and posting the last Man Table this weekend.

    +1 on a request for audio from the event. I’d really like to hear the talks if you guys would be so gracious as to oblige. I’ll even host a mirror of it for as long as my bandwidth holds out.

  19. Or I guess I could put up a tracker for a torrent of the audio. Come to think of it, should probably look at doing that for my stuff too…

    1. @Sun Wukong
      “+1 on a request for audio from the event. I’d really like to hear the talks if you guys would be so gracious as to oblige. I’ll even host a mirror of it for as long as my bandwidth holds out.”

      Will use phone to recorded it all first going to ask everyone their and the guest. If anyone says no than I won’t do it will need your email and send you one hr files at a time.

  20. Totally staying in tonight, this shit is too good to miss lol:

    Not just to make fun of Roosh, but the way this is edited. They interview the first main feminist chick that went after him and she’s FULLY playing the victim card and hyping him up as a monster who’s dangerous to women in general, and her blurred out friend who’s again fearing for her life etc, full on damsel in distress.

    And they snip clips of his videos/articles so that he’s making WAY worse sounding statements than he actually was if you watch the full video. And they have a lawyery dude in full white knight mode.

    The average person seeing this isn’t going to research Roosh’s work and see “oh the rape thing was a parody like Jonathan Swift, that’s actually pretty clever”, they’re just going to see scared helpless women and “the things he’s doing are most definitely illegal” etc.

    I know we all KNOW this is going to happen, but seeing it with one of our own that we all know and have seen the articles/videos they’re editing etc. is pretty fascinating and I hope the MGTOWs/MRAs/etc. who interviewed for that BBC documentary are paying attention…the media has a narrative to fill and they WILL fill it no matter what you say or do. If you don’t do anything they can use, they’ll just edit around you and show what other people say ABOUT you instead, ideally from a scared girl.

    Feel free to tell me to knock off the Roosh spamming here lol but 1) there’s nowhere else to really discuss it and 2) I legit think there are a lot of lessons to learn from this fiasco with regards to mainstream acceptance of red pill views and seeing how the narratives are upheld and how cut-throat women can react and lie and play up damsel tropes when they want something done (and need men to do it for them), etc.

    Roosh is balancing a very thin line between enough hate mob action to get him publicity and too much hate mob action that turns into an actual dangerous situ. He’s lucky Canadians don’t carry around guns or I could see a revved up white knight frustrated type looking to save all the princesses the next time his photo’s taken at a coffee shop.

  21. While I think these convention things are dangerous for doxxing etc, they can produce a lot of valuable information. The 21 Convention does a similar thing:

    They bring in guys well-versed in everything, not just pickup, half of the speakers don’t even study pickup but they’re really good at like, finances, or business, or philosophy/mindsets, or exercise/nutrition etc. and give speeches to the young dudes who are at the prime age to take that info in and apply it to their lives and the vids are posted all over YouTube so lots of guys stumble across them.

    If you’re looking to do more speaking engagements you might want to contact the 21 Convention and see about speaking there, I don’t think anyone is teaching those young dudes about Hypergamy and that’s an audience that would benefit a lot from learning this stuff. I was huge into pickup for years and had never had someone break down Hypergamy (or heard the word) till your blog, it’s not a concept we go into depth on in the PUA community (we instead focus on telling guys to be/stay high-value, VS breaking down the actual mechanics of Hypergamy and why it exists and how it manifests with relatable examples)

    It’s also run pretty pro looking and would be good exposure for your books and getting guys to pick up copies and round out their pickup knowledge with the “why” behind the “how”…that’s how I’d pitch your talk lol

    1. @YaReally, Roosh didn’t go to Canada to speak to 40 guys about The State of Men. He knew exactly what he was getting into and it has nothing to do with his convictions or informing men about anything they weren’t already familiar with.

      He’s in Canada because he knows damn well he’ll be protested there. He was talking about going to jail before he even crossed the border. It’s all about the show, and his High Inquisitor Quintus gets his time to play Dungeons & Dragons and quote his favorite fantasy battle movies.

      The worst that could happen to Roosh is that all he got to do was give his speech to 40 guys. He’s not there to educate, he’s there to agitate and draw as much attention to himself as possible.

      My concern is that this will snowball out of control of what he’s so obviously planned ahead for and he or someone else gets hurt.

  22. @Rollo
    I agree. I think the hard part for me to process it is that I haven’t actually seen someone purposely TRY to become notorious in a negative hated way before.

    Like I’ve met a lot of people but most of them are either trying to avoid being hated, or simply don’t care if they’re hated, or who’ve done things for a good reason and accept that they will probably BE hated for it…this is the first time I can think of where I’ve seen someone who’s work/attitude/etc. I know fairly well, purposely TRY to be hated simply FOR the notoriety (and cashing in on it). Like taking that ball and just flat-out running with it, and not hidden behind a character like a Borat trolling type, but flat out “Hi, this is me and my real name and face not a character and I want everyone to know my name in a negative way”.

    I can’t relate to it at all..some kind of combination of narcissism and attention-whore complexes combined with recognizing how well the SJW “kick the beehive and cry victim for $ from your supporters” method works and just fusing that all together? I can’t imagine the drive behind it all.

    “My concern is that this will snowball out of control of what he’s so obviously planned ahead for and he or someone else gets hurt.”

    Ya I agree. The guys who are gonna’ get hurt are the guys around him who are blindly going to go challenge feminists alongside him because they’re caught up in the momentum/emotion of things that they don’t realize “dude maybe it’s not a good plan to have your face on video and eventually identified with a mob of SJWs contacting your employer to tell him you take part in harrassing women and promoting rape culture because look at these quotes from your leader RooshV”

    I’m seeing dudes leaving comments on the YouTube vid like “I’m in Montreal, I will help you anyway you need!!” under their real names and pics and shit and it’s like man, have you really thought that thru? I give my buddies shit for just leaving Facebook comments under their real names on controversial issues because they have jobs to keep and families to feed and shit and they don’t grasp that all that stuff is going to live forever on the internet and could destroy their careers down the road.

    I mean SAY it, but say it ANONYMOUSLY lol

  23. @ YaReally
    “I can’t imagine the drive behind it all.”
    I can. It is the strategy to spread hatred among people worldwide. This strategy is implemented differently in different parts of the world. You can find vivid examples here on Corbet Report (, so I wont dwell on that.

    In my opinion the best position to counter is the slogan that simple:
    “Make love no war.”

    “My concern is that this will snowball out of control …”
    That is my concern too. I’m so glad to learn about your moderate position. I was intrigued by your evolutionary explanation of men as the disposable sex in your book. I fully agree. I have a similar evolutionary explanation of the role of sex drive and love developed in an article titled “The Stendhal Effect” ( In summary, the role and function of sex and love is reversed by social conventions. All suffer from it, men and women likewise. Unfortunately, this suffering is misunderstood and mislead far too often.

  24. Where do I see these kinds of event on the (personal developement/how to act today as man and individual) vs. (man’s right/response to societal change) spectrum?

    1. I’ll tell you what Joe, I’ll give a personal, honest and objective review of the whole conference when it’s done. I’ll make sure I’m present for all the talks (which I was going to do anyway), and I’ll watch that all the money goes where it’s suppose to go (primarily paying for the venue – it’s spendy even by my standards).

      If anything is shady, if anything is off the books, if any of the men who attend want to opine about it, you’ll know and read about it here.

      You see, I have always had an open forum; if you want to say you got ripped off, be the first to post it here. Unlike other forums and Disqus threads, I neither edit, censor nor ban any critical opinions. I’ll pull blatant spamming, but the integrity of TRM is based on an open exchange of ideas.

      So it’s not my rep on the line, it’s everyone else living up to their own. I have confidence in each of the speakers to deliver what they will. If they don’t, I and anyone else who chooses will let you know.

      I don’t do this for a living Joe. If the manosphere shut down tomorrow I’d be making the same scratch I do now.

  25. I have never had any business dealings with Christian other than having bought some of his products. All I can say is that I have gotten exceptional value from them.

  26. I find it interesting that Roosh and others are getting hounded. Much of what we’re talking about on the Manosphere is a more edgy version of what’s covered in Esquire or Playboy in the day. Normally I don’t comment on these types of things but I think Roosh is putting himself out there so prominently it’s become provocative. If he kept a lower profile and then posted the results of had podcasts it might have a bigger impact.

  27. @Joe
    Thanks for the link Joe. I don’t know whether Christian is a fraud or not. What I do know is that exaggeration and fabrication of one’s accomplishments are endemic to every internet community. There is no way to vet every blogger’s claims. I’ve found that the best way to protect myself against manosphere fraudsters is to spend little to no money.
    There is so much free content available due to every blogger adopting the freemium model.

  28. @joe

    Yay, some jackass on the internet I don’t know personally who could be lying says some other jackass on the internet that I don’t know personally is a liar. As though every transaction you have with every other human being on the planet as an adult shouldn’t be approached with a certain degree of caution and skepticism.

    Rollo stands on his own reputation, just like every one of us here.

  29. @Rollo Will echo what others have said: you are doing a great service to men everywhere. Best of luck with your event and thank you for what you do.

    Already booked that weekend or I’d be there!

  30. Do we need to bring up the fact that internecine conflict in the manosphere is counterproductive? Sure you can disagree with comments. But don’t be a whiny little bitch. Both within any one blog. Or among blogs. Or personalities.

    Rational discussions will stand on their own merits.

    Ad hominem ({of an argument or reaction} directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining) attacks such as the one Joe brought up are somewhat counterproductive to advancing men’s self improvement and advancing their sexual strategy.

    Another example is someone on Heartist’s comments section when one man levels a comment against another man such as: “He couldn’t get laid in a woman’s prison with a fistful of pardons.”

    Note: Discussing Roosh’s exploits in context is not an ad hominem attack by any measure. It is simple discussion.

    Who’s team are you on?………

  31. @SJF and others
    When the schism between Roosh and Rollo occurred, I publicly stated that they should try and reconcile. I’m only one voice amongst many, but I think most of the ‘sphere feels the same way.
    Having said that, I welcome any information on a vendor before making a purchase. Charging men $10 for an ebook doesn’t warrant much scrutiny. Selling the supposed keys to Vegas for $500 does warrant more skepticism. The information on McQueen/Benjamin Riley is now public and men can make an informed purchase. If a man feels some claims are dubious, he should say so and demand evidence. Speak your mind, Joe.

  32. “When the schism between Roosh and Rollo occurred, I publicly stated that they should try and reconcile.”


    How is reconciling with someone that is demonstrating they are bat-shit crazy different than a man compromising himself to a woman to try to get in her pants (negotiating desire)?

  33. Tldr; Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there any evidence that Mcqueen can get you laid in Vegas nightclubs?

    Just thought of one other thing. I’ve been a poster on other forums that catered to men. Bodybuilding and finance/trading forums for the most part. There is a common thread that runs between these communities and the ‘sphere. A minority of men achieve good to outlandish success. The rest of the men are left staring in awe at what is possible. Benching 500+…making a 7 figure income trading from home…picking up hot girls with just a look etc.
    Success at this level is hard to believe for the average guy and is unattainable for many. The shysters of the world thrive on this kind of consumer. I’ve learned to ask for evidence, a track record, testimonials and/or a demonstration. If a vendor refuses, don’t buy. If a vendor threatens to sue his critics instead of providing data or proof, definitely do not buy.
    Most rational men know this already. When shopping for a car, home or boat, they do their due diligence, read consumer reports, read internet reviews and so on… Yet sometimes, they suspend their disbelief. They want something so badly that they grasp at any straw. Men will idolize a vendor and defend him regardless of the evidence. The same dynamic is starting to play out here.
    I don’t know whether Mcqueen is a fraud. What I do know is how he is responding to his critics. He’s lashing out instead of providing evidence. Mcqueen/Riley doesn’t seem to understand that the onus is on him to provide proof that he isn’t a huckster.

    1. I’m sorry, could you please quote where it says “this conference will get you laid in a Vegas night club”?

      I’m having trouble finding that extraordinary claim you mention.

  34. @SJF

    Roosh isn’t crazy. He’s the P.T. Barnum of the manosphere. The man is an internet provocateur and a click bait purveyor. As you’ve stated, internecine conflicts between the various manosphere factions only harm our cause. Just as MLK and Malcom X had to achieve a tenuous peace between their factions, so will the manosphere if it wants to survive.
    Ben Franklin said it best, “Join or die.”

  35. @SJF
    Roosh isn’t a woman and neither is Rollo. Rational negotiation is possible between men.

    1. Roosh isn’t a woman and neither is Rollo. Rational negotiation is possible between men.

      Mmm, as evidenced by the 10 minutes it took for Roosh to ban me from commenting on RoK, RVF and block me on Twitter when I challenged him about his Retro-masculine claims about TRP.

      I wouldn’t expect much rational negotiation to take place. So you’ll excuse me if I find his pandering cries of having his freedom of speech squelched in Canada a complete load of shit when he practices the same.

  36. Some of us are not that stupid.

    You may have been on other forums before, but you are here now.

    How bout letting the LV seminar play out?

  37. @SJF

    It isn’t about a man’s IQ, it is about his desperation. Men lost at sea will eventually drink salt water to quench their thirst.

    Let’s see how the seminar plays out. There is enough info that should pop up on google now. If a man does his due diligence, he can make an informed decision.

    1. Well then in the interests of full disclosure then lets also point out that Roosh:

      1. Eagerly jumped at the chance to be pilloried on the Dr. Oz SHow after having written a post entitled “Dr. Oz is a Pussy” on RoK just a year prior. After which his play was to excuse his ridiculed performance as having been “ambushed” by Oz.

      2. Welcomed a BBC documentary team to his London stop of his tour knowing full well they were doing a hit piece on MRAs and the manosphere proper. Furthermore, he allowed them to interview the attendees at risk to their privacy and potentially their livelihoods without prior warning.

      3. Hired a ‘hostess’ for that event who it turns out was a well known feminist blogger working for the HuffPo among many other news sites. It took all of 3 minutes to source her name and background, but apparently this hadn’t occurred to Roosh.

      4. Claimed the meeting site in Montreal had been leaked by “only 2 people” who could’ve known – excluding the possibility that Roosh himself ‘leaked’ the location to the protesters he knew would challenge him there.

      5. Professed a willingness to go to jail well before he even entered Canada.

      6. Has concerned himself more with the fervor and protests that he stoked than the content of a speech intended for 40 men, ostensibly to inform them about the State of Men.

      7. Has concerned himself with his own notoriety at the expense of his attendee’s identity, privacy and potentially their employment at any opportunity.

      So, now men can make an informed decision when they consider attending one of Roosh’s next ‘lectures’.

  38. @Rollo
    It is unfortunate how the situation has devolved. Somebody has to initially make an overture of peace in these kinds of situations. I don’t expect either party to do it anytime soon. But I’d be surprised if he doesn’t read your twitter feed…

    Good luck with your conference. I’m sure it will go well.

  39. @ Rollo
    All true. Thanks for posting it. I wouldn’t advise men to go to a Rooshv seminar either.

  40. @Rollo,
    I think Roosh did you a great favor by distancing himself from you.
    Roosh’s secular/muslem background will come to haunt him.
    I am sorry to put it this way but, wait till feminists start blaming his Islamic background for his “anti women” views.
    The same thing with white supremacists in the manosphere.

    You are the rational manosphere.

    1. Keyser, I know, that’s why I’m staying off Twitter today.

      Going to look at classic cars and my brother’s car auction today seems like time better spent.

  41. @Rollo

    “Mmm, as evidenced by the 10 minutes it took for Roosh to ban me from commenting on RoK, RVF and block me on Twitter when I challenged him about his Retro-masculine claims about TRP.
    I wouldn’t expect much rational negotiation to take place. So you’ll excuse me if I find his pandering cries of having his freedom of speech squelched in Canada a complete load of shit when he practices the same.”

    I’m honestly concerned that he’s about to go into some far-right territory that gets associated with neo-nazism or radical Islam. I’ve been around internet forums in the past that received that label (whether by accident or design) and it’s a pretty extreme form of alienation that I don’t want to deal with. Trying to become religious after travelling the globe to bang sluts for 10 years is the icing on the cake and a lot of his senior members disappeared after that jail stunt you mentioned in your previous article.

    A lot of us who registered for that forum 3+ years ago have either disappeared, gotten banned, or faded away. Now he’s backing everyone into a corner and seeing who is willing to tow the line. Look at the forum registration dates for most of the guys going along with this. It isn’t the same place I signed up for over 4 years ago.

  42. @Vitriol

    Trying to become religious after travelling the globe to bang sluts for 10 years is the icing on the cake

    Naaah, that part’s the most believable part. You get to hear Southern Christian ladies coo all the time when they hear about some murderer’s death row conversion. The religious love that narrative. It’s the story of their team winning in the end!

  43. As you’ve stated, internecine conflicts between the various manosphere factions only harm our cause.

    Except that Roosh has neither a “manosphere faction” nor a “cause” other than his own. He’s an attention whore and the typical shitbag who will throw other men under the bus. He has been very nasty towards MGTOWs and MRAs. It’s not a loss if he goes under.

  44. I ‘ve got blocked from rvf and rok pretty much straight away (after dispersing the wisdom of dating russian and ukrainian women which was not in accordance with general party line over there).

    Pathetic aggregation of omegas with a chieftain who preaches “american passport” game rather than The game).

  45. Speaking of men in demand again…lol:

    I missed the part where he decimated the mob in a battle of wits making rational arguments and owning the feminist hate mob with his dazzling display of logic and truth.

    Looks to me like a classic “psst buddy keep pretending to hold me back from kicking all their asses” fronting move as they scurry away into hiding. Roosh wearing a wig as a disguise is funny shit though lol

    Lots of great social dynamics going on in the video, from the entitlement of women/feminists knowing they have a pussypass to break the law and technically assault someone they disagree with, to white knights jumping to the rescue and revving themselves up to defend the princesses (who are continuing to instigate shit from behind the wall of sausage knights), to mob rage escalating into shoving etc. Props to the dude who was trying to frame control shit staying calm and telling people to calm down.

    I know neo-masculinity produces the cream of the crop manliest of badass men ready to confront all feminists head-on, but this just looks like any other “drunk guy pisses off a drunk girl and flips the bird as he runs away to avoid getting beat up” scene you see outside of any Jersey Shore type nightclub at last call lol

    The Feminists/SJWs in general are fascinating. They legitimately believe they are above the law, not only recording videos of their assault and posting them online but like, happily signing their real names to it and expecting no reprocussions:

    Sounds like the speech was successful though, so good on him and admittedly this is a great victory speech/taunt lol:

    I’m not sure how any of this actually helps men really…the people supporting him already supported him and the people who were neutral about him just listen to the media about him and most of the various red pill spheres give no real fucks, so it’s not like anyone’s going to be converted…but then helping men is clearly not the goal. It’s more important to determine which members are the die-hard soldiers who will blindly donate money to you and put their names and faces behind your cause with no thought of self-preservation so you can declare anyone who isn’t die-hard enough to be unworthy and get a really solid foundation of believers for your cult to build off.

    Also Roosh has edited/censored my comments before, he gives no fucks about free speech unless it agrees with him, same as Feminists.

    Regardless, props to him for pulling the speech off and I eagerly look forward to the next episode of RooshTV, will Toronto double-down to make up for Montreal or will they be deterred and let him speak? Will Big Red make an appearance?? TUNE IN NEXT WEEK FOR THE EXCITING CONCLUSION! lol

  46. This will be the greatest test to the integrity of roosh. He must take legal action against the radical nazi mob.If he doesn’t-then it’s simply about drawing attention to his persona and selling more of his so called “books” (who buys that shit anyways?).

  47. Sigh. A few points to keep in mind here, folks:

    1. Many of us come here after experiencing the truly hateful moronic shit the likes of Roosh V. spew. While of course he has some good insights on PUA (nothing you can’t get elsewhere without the rest of his pseudo-intellectual drivel), his “race realism”, his infantile ideas about politics and economics and the statements he makes about women – he did say rape should be legal, fyi – show him to be an intellectual child posing as a seer. Yes, no doubt, he can fuck eastern European girls if he dedicates his life to it. It’s no shocker he found that empty – any sentient Red Pill man could have told him that ahead of time.

    2. Anonymity – Rollo proceeds at his own peril by breaking his anonymity to speak at a conference. Any man with a public reputation like me – I have a social media presence in a certain segment of the business world for example – puts his social standing and livelihood at risk by letting his identity be known. While I would love to attend this conference, there is no way I would ever let my identity be known. This is going to get worse, not better.

    3. Giving zero fucks about Roosh – I could roast marshmallows over the fire that feminists set to burn him at the stake. Like Rollo says, this is all intentional. And for those of you not in the marketing world, he’s essentially following a clickbait-Buzzfeed kind of approach to promotion. Being controversial and polarizing is a great way to build an audience. Just look at how revved up his “supporters” are on this site – it’s working like a charm. You can bet he’s got a “social media dashboard” and is looking at how he trends on Twitter, YouTube, etc. and his own web properties after each of these episodes. I don’t follow him at all, but if he hasn’t launched a new book or web program or some way to monetize beyond these talks he’s giving, he will announce something soon to “convert the leads” that the suckers who take him seriously are.

    Last. This community is what we make of it folks. Discussing Roosh V and listening to race realists peddle their anti-intellectual, sophomoric hate is not what I come here for. For some bizarre reason (which calls Rollo’s own moral lens into question), he tolerates open racism and anti-semitism here. So don’t be surprised, Rollo, if when your identity becomes public as it most surely will if you keep up the high profile stuff, that you are characterized as hosting a site that welcomes racism and anti-semitism.

    And you do ban people, Rollo, you ban trolls. One wonders why you consider racists and anti-semites to be more acceptable than trolls, but that’s your decision to make. Just don’t be shocked when you are held to account for welcoming that crap here.

  48. @Those who actually are serious here – Yes, I did say I would not come here anymore due to the racist/anti-semitic crap. I was also in serious monk mode, dialing my own shit in tighter and closing down stuff seemed like a good idea. But the problem is that this is the only place in the Red Pill world that I participate in after finding the rest wanting. So instead I’ve decided to fight on this platform for the kind of intellectual and serious conversation that does occur here sometimes.

    This is the place where men who are serious about internal game and taking on self-improvement who have IQs above 120 play. This is the place where the underlying science and technical aspects of intersexual relations are discussed. This is a place where married and single men, young and old from all around the world get to discuss how to actually be happier, more effective and self-actualized in a world dominated by the FI. That’s why I fell in love with this site.

    You may note that i just denigrate racists and anti-semites and feel that I’m not being intellectual. Lol. I don’t treat such people as intellectual equals and argue with them. They are like the religious – their views unfalsifiable. They also signal that they have sub-par intellects by holding these views and simply aren’t capable of serious discussion. I also believe that treating such people like shit is the best way to get rid of them. You’ll notice that I don’t limit my dismissal of morons and dingbats to just racists/anti-semites. You want to go spew your half baked ideas about the world and economics and history etc here – I will take you apart without mercy and degrade you along the way. Don’t expect to be taken seriously.

    My point? If you aren’t pretty smart to begin with, just be a spectator here and learn. Most people aren’t intellectuals and most people don’t have thoughts that are worth reading. GET THAT. Don’t comment to just see your words on the screen. The best sharing and commentary here comes when a man talks about his life, his struggle, his victories and how he’s instrumentalizing all this in his own life. Let’s focus on that, folks. Let’s also focus on being here for the newbie who’s life has just gone down the shitter so we can help him before he kills himself – if he’ll let us.

  49. IMO everyone here should be using a TOR browser and a fake e-mail address.

    I have a feeling that the manosphere is eventually going to end up on the deep web. It’s managed to stay on the surface for now, but if feminism keeps getting worse and more crazy laws are written and enforced, there’ll be nowhere else to go but underground. I think the end game of feminism is censorship: override men’s right to free speech by labeling PUA/Game/RP material and communities as hate groups and get them banned.

    That’s limiting male sexuality to the extreme. Make it as hard as possible for socially and sexually inept men to get out of the ditch they’re in. Make it as hard as possible for men who know what they’re doing to help the men who don’t know what they’re doing. So only the most Alpha of Alpha men will rise to the top, while the lesser men are left to burn in hellfire with no way to get help or advice or anything.

    If I could make it to the seminar, I’d go. Sounds like it’d be a great time. Also a bit surreal — actually connecting with RP aware guys IRL. For all the struggling I’ve had trying to improve by reading about and participating in the manosphere, I wonder if I’d have an easier time developing if I had RP aware friends/mentors IRL.

    1. @scribblerg
      “Let’s also focus on being here for the newbie who’s life has just gone down the shitter so we can help him before he kills himself – if he’ll let us.”

      “I wonder if I’d have an easier time developing if I had RP aware friends/mentors IRL.”
      It would be the only reason the blue pill kept claiming my emotional dis balance is because I didn’t know better and was raised by women. My dad my father my creator was extremely feminized and I had no examples I Had very little room to explore myself. My upbringing was inherently anti male. Male bashing was considered progress and it hurt me because I learned to hate myself for having a pair of balls. I was told women where scared while they brought home countless men to sleep on my bed with. Having someone as Rollo growing up is beyond helpful it’s sustained on what the hell is really going on. It takes the social pretense of something that people don’t talk about and bring it up it the most masculine profound way possible.
      Also having someone to talk to about the way life is an not the way you want it to be is hard to build with a climate that doesn’t support it at times. Some folks who where red pill in high school have a huge N count but what they had that got them that was a place to have and express basic red pill truths.

      Learning game and awareness and self improvement helps a lot having folks show you and help you along the way. I didn’t have that till I did some acroyoga in dc and a buddy who cared profoundly said it this simple.
      “I will tell you why but if you ever bring it up in public or in person I will flat out deny it.”
      He processed my reaction which was this already seems extremely important. He than slowly yet clearly said visit
      From that point on I realize he may have been the only real buddy I’ve had. I don’t think high school would have been nearly as hard with Rollo as my only masculine guide. I used books and pass distant relatives to mimic and aspire to but I can really say with complete abandon that it was omega beta central at my neck of the woods. It hurts to even think about at this stage. I just appreciate the awareness. The willingness to admit things for men Are harsh and maybe their isn’t any “men” left. When Rollo made that comment about his daughter I really had a huge amount of respect for what that means in 2015 so I do think having red pill aware buddy’s helps. It turns you into a focus of masculine growth with ease and little more observant facts than blue pill daydreams that used to hang around my mind as a “teenager” or whatever the fuck that means these days.

  50. @Softie – As long as Rollo doesn’t raise his public profile and blow his anonymity, this site won’t be shut down. But if he draws attention to himself and this site by allying with others who are lowlifes and big mouths, well, yeah, then this site will become a target.

    TOR is only one of many options for IP anonymity. Do a few google searches and you’ll see there are a number of options. However, it’s not a good general purpose solution as it will affect how websites behave.

    You are correct though that the trend is toward criminalizing thought and words that aren’t deemed politically correct online. There are already cases in the courts in Canada and Europe creating new precedents and at the international level, there are some truly frightening prospects of internet control and surveillance that are being discussed seriously.

    If Hillary Clinton gets elected in the states, it’s a certainty that criticizing or insulting women will become a crime online. But even if she doesn’t, just look at the Trump-Kelly dustup. She went after him quite stridently, but when Trump pushes back? Conservatives attack him. Damseling is more powerful than ever. Funnily, he’s almost Red Pill – he’s a natural alpha but sadly, has written more books than he’s read as an adult, lol (a friend told him this and he admitted it). He has an unrefined mind and is not systematic in his thinking so he’s playing himself into a dead end. Carly Fiorina wisely saw an opening here and will build a huge bulge of support by co-damseling with Kelly.

    What he should have said is, “This is what equality looks like. Rosie O’Donnell can denigrate me endlessly and viciously, but I can’t call her a hideous cow? That somehow has something to do with all women?” And here is what would have been the defusing, game-wise kill shot. “So let me get this straight, Megyn. If I note that you are hot and smart, that’s not aimed at all women? But when I note that Rosie is a lout and disgusting that’s somehow aimed at all women?” Megyn will be blushing with the compliment and will stumble. Delivered with a smile on his face and not followed up by anger on Twitter is the way a Red Pill aware Alpha male deals with this shit – it’s like getting in a text war with a plate, you never win (sink your cock into her cooz again). Using women’s own egos and contradictions against them calmly, with a smile is the best way to confound them. Donald needs to swallow the Red Pill.

    But hey, he’s a billionaire and has fucked models for his entire life. He could teach most men here a thing or two about mindset and being one’s own point of mental origin as is.

  51. @Glenn, I’m glad you’re back and I recognize your concerns.

    With regard to anyone’s anonymity, this was the first thing I was concerned about in light of Roosh’s intentional use of his audience to boost his own media visibility. I think the BBC documentary will bear this out, but we’ll have to wait and see. Roosh’s pollyanna “I didn’t know the media would lynch me / I got ambushed” nonsense no longer holds up.

    I told Christian I wouldn’t do the talk if those attending had to risk their identities being compromised. I should also mention that this is all it is for me a talk. Honestly I don’t want the publicity, but the most common thing I get from readers since the 2nd book published is that they want me to either do some personal counseling for them or that I should do some kind of gathering. After my 2nd interview with Christian and then with Tom Torero this sentiment only got stronger.

    I have a very busy works schedule, so personal counseling I limit to who I can help via email. However, once Goldumnd detoured his drive across America in order to meet me and asked me to do the video interview I decided I’d be open to an appearance.

    I should point out that this conference is Christian’s gig, not mine. He invited me to come do a talk, and I couldn’t confirm I would until a week ago because it fit into a convention I’m doing in Vegas that same week (thus the ‘special guest’ tease for a week because I was tentative then). Christian has booked and organized this and fronted the money to reserve a very spendy venue I was familiar with. That told me he was serious about it.

    We are not formal “business partners”, I am his invited guest. I plan to lose money on this appearance because I’ll be staying 4 extra days in Vegas on my own dime and I’ll be giving away books (not selling them). I’m looking at it as a second vacation for me this year.

    What I write, what I talk about, the dots I connect and the lives and experiences of the men I can help are more important to me than publicity or my own aggrandizement. As I said, I don’t have to blog to make a living, I do it because I think about men like my brother in law, or my good friend Nick who swallowed a bullet because he lost his ONEitis girl, and I think maybe I can help guys who are confused to the point of ending it all.

    That’s why what Roosh is doing now is so disappointing to me. He’s cashing in the equity of the manosphere to prop himself up at a time when his previous brand is failing. That’s not fair to the men who genuinely would seek out the manosphere for help or understanding.

    As I said about Athol Kay, when the manosphere becomes your vocation you must continually reinvent yourself at the cost of your commitment to Red Pill awareness. I’m not saying Roosh is Purple Pill at all, but that’s what relying on the ‘sphere or PUA or the MRM for your paycheck eventually necessitates. It was quite telling to hear Roosh say he had no family or kids or job and a spectacle like Montreal was the culmination of his ‘life’s work’.

    That doesn’t seem genuine to me. He’s had great insights in the past and I still think he deserves credit for that, but when the ‘leader of the new masculinity’ is a drunk man with a full beard wearing a wig with beer in his face, you’ll have to pardon me for thinking that Blue Pill men might not want to be associated with it.

    I’m glad he’s carrying the fight against SJWs to them, but don’t call it progress, don’t call it Red Pill, when your intent was only to agitate, not educate. Every stage of this spectacle was planned months in advance, and masterfully so I might add, but the intent wasn’t to spread awareness it was a publicity stunt; which feminists and SJWs followed along with as expected.

  52. I’m thinking Roosh is borrowing the same tactics that the video game critic uses.
    Anita Sarkessian. Some of the other things that people have talked about are identical or similar. Blocking as soon as someone disagrees.
    That video is too dark to see, but instead of disguising, a bad wig makes you stand out like a here I am sign. So the purpose for that could have been met.
    A leaked location, hoping for a bomb threat to be called in as SJW’s attempted to do with a GamerGate meet up. And that was just those who are on GamerGate’s side just getting together socially. Just hanging out.
    Outrage is a tool. Not saying that was the case for the GamerGate example. But it’s very possible Roosh could have ideas for using as much outrage as possible.
    Nobody’s going to get hurt. He’s not going to fight. He knows all he needs is an upset group. Especially women. Then he just has to walk away. All the women are just going to hurl an unlimited supply of “fuck you” at him. Any guy around doesn’t have to do anything but tell him to leave, as if they’re the level headed one. Or keep the women from getting too close, trying to endear themselves to any women near by.
    Women love to talk tough when their protected or know nothing can happen. Guys like to appear tough or at least as if they’re the ones keeping things from getting out of hand.
    After all the shouting Roosh gets to say I’m fighting the good fight, by myself but not backing down.

  53. I understand a lot of the anonymity concerns in the community. This is why I do what I can to allow for it in stuff I’ve set up.


    I don’t think the manosphere will go on the deep web. I think it’s in the process of coming out of the shadows right now. Take a look at CAFE, for instance. Despite being a Candian association and therefore operating in a feminist stronghold, they’re actually holding their position against feminist pressure when presenting Men’s Rights issues.

    Granted, they’re a more neutral group aiming for actual equalism so they can get away with a bit more, but the point is groups are coming out that do support at least some ideas born out of the manosphere. When those groups do clash with feminists, said feminists do a bang up job of looking like the bad guys. So much so that fairly average chicks do their damnedest to distance themselves from such toxic behavior.

    Feminist power has, in my opinion, started to show cracks in its foundation. The past few years they’ve overplayed the hell out of their hand, and it’s started to really bite them in the ass. Yes, they’re still getting some ridiculous policies put in place on college campuses in the most loony left parts of the country. Overall though? Public opinion is really starting to turn against them. “Feminist” is starting to become a pejorative term without even having to attach -nazi to the end. Hell even a lot of my Atheist friends (typically seen as a fairly left leaning bunch) have started to come out against it as “just another religion leaning on dogma, opinions, and feelings instead of empirical evidence”.

    2014 was the year of Peak Feminism. There’s no reason for the ‘sphere to go back underground when their primary enemy just shot themselves in the foot. Rollo is picking the exact right time to do a public appearance as a voice of reason in gender relations. Things may still look bad, but the wind is blowing in our favor as feminist hubris will be their undoing.

    As for Roosh, his antics are not a reasonable voice at the right time. If I were to call out why his tactics look exactly like the SJWs though, I’d guess:

    Law 44: Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect

    The mirror reflects reality, but it is also the perfect tool for deception. When you mirror your enemies, doing exactly as they do, they cannot figure out your strategy. The mirror effect mocks and humiliates them, making them overreact. By holding up a mirror to their psyches, you seduce them with the illusion that you share their values; by holding up a mirror to their actions, you teach them a lesson. Few can resist the power of mirror effect.

    It’s working for him, but it’s not going to help the ‘sphere overall. The best we can hope for is that we can keep it from really harming us.

  54. Like Sun and Glenn I too must circumlocute somewhat, but only to make outing harder to do, via a screen name. If I were outed, I can say to anyone who needs to know: this Fred Flange persona is just that, a persona, I use to comment in certain places in certain ways, as Matt Forney did once upon a time under his Ferdinand moniker.

    Surprisingly, the moniker thing works better than you might suppose, so our Host need not fear the reaper. He can always keep the RT persona intact for these parts and his books, and do publicity for them as RT. Meanwhile he keeps his professional persona for his day job. It genuinely creates plausible deniability – “that name is where I do my evo-psych writing, don’t want it to get in the way of anything else.”

    Though I concede pulling this off is easier if you DGAF about the Outing, should it ever occur. I know not everyone has that luxury. My rule on the webz has always been: assume anything I write could be read back to me on a witness stand. I am far enough along, and prepared, to have that happen. I am pleased to say I am unashamed of anything I’ve done online, even the mad sarc stuff.

  55. @YaReally

    “I mean SAY it, but say it ANONYMOUSLY lol”

    I think the very sad part is that men have to go this route, today. They risk losing everything for speaking their thoughts, opinions, etc…

    Here is hoping that between the two events (Roosh and the Vegas event) that it’s all much need light on a subject: the fact that men have to remain in the shadows just to speak their opinions in 2015.

    1. @Rollo Tomassi
      Just read and went few of the videos. That’s the sort of thing my family of Origin would speak like and do to me. Why the hell would someone even do that for money? Good hit hurts I don’t know Roosh but I wouldn’t mind asking sometime in person what’s going on with him.
      Being male in 2015 is borderline illegal an apparently money worthy yet people can lose their jobs and family’s for showing up to something such as this in a social shaming way that’s again all to familiar. Responsibility
      That’s one world that I can take and internalize that embodies the red pill.

  56. I hope the Manosphere doesn’t go back underground, due to Roosh’s antics or feminist overreaction to those antics. If they do they’ll be harder for men to find, and if Roosh ends up becoming the public face of the Manosphere then few men will bother looking. And then the feminists and the FI will have won. Of course we know this means the majority of women, as well as men, will ultimately lose.

  57. What an irresponsible selfish toxic guy .
    Roosh thinks he is bigger than the manosphere!?
    Any association with Roosh is an intellectual / public relations suicide.
    I think Rollo should read him “his last rites”.

  58. Wow this is why Roosh’s website is on hiatus? Seriously, what an awesome idea, I hope all goes well, just wish I could be there for the fun & knowledge. Hoping we non-attendees get a full report & breakdown of the event. Good luck!

  59. From my perspective, Roosh has always only been a half-clever and deeply flawed circus ringmaster who has never been able to see beyond his own myopically narrow biases. And, luckily for his wallet (at least in the short run), the weak-minded are always an easy draw to his stripe of “persecuted cult” tactics. I’ve read a couple of his books and visited his web sites and I was deeply unimpressed. Nevertheless, he has had some marginal credibility in the past for whatever reason.

    But post Dr. Oz, his shtick has thoroughly devolved into the martyred Saint Roosh preaching to his remaining sycophants, suckers, and shills, while reinforcing their blind devotion by drawing the ire of the easily incensed, low-hanging-fruit SJW’s. None of his tiresome dog-returning-to-its-own-vomit bugaboos or his stale stage histrionics are beneficial to the community at large, and he clearly doesn’t care about anything other than his sagging career and the corner he’s foolishly painted himself into. He’s become nothing but a sad, bargain basement media whore betting his whole stack of chips on a rigged game that he’s not sophisticated enough to play (much less win at), but he’s willing to give five-dollar alleyway blowjobs to the MSM as his “this’ll do, also” backup plan. Sure, he trended on Twitter for five minutes, but by his own admission he is a clown and everyone who is serious in the manosphere should start treating him like one by laughing, pointing at him, and flinging peanuts whenever he forays out into the public spotlight. He’s been given WAY too much legitimacy, and it needs to end.

    TRM is the place where the grown ups come to talk. I value it above all others. I count on it. I’m having a seriously hard time stomaching the intense focus here on a has-been carnival performer in lieu of more productive dialogue that might save/improve lives.

    1. @Diplomat, agreed. However Roosh is billing himself as the titular face of the manosphere, MRM, TRP and retromasculinity. He does not represent anything like this, but is only too happy to destroy the equity this community has in the MSM (which isn’t much) and to men seeking real mature answers and Red Pill awareness.

      If you’ve seen the better quality video of the wig & beer incident on CH you can appreciate the level of carnival act Roosh is willing to embrace, He knew damn well what he was doing and was provoking the response he knew he was likely to get.

      That is NOT the manosphere. That is NOT the Red Pill. Roosh is only too willing to ride this community into the ground which is exactly why he distanced himself from it before he set off on his tour. He knew his plans would garner this disgust and he was being preemptive about it.

      That said, you’re absolutely right – he is a clown and has admitted as much, which is why I’m backing off of this now. My concern is his delegitimizing TRP and harming or disgusting the men who would otherwise need a rational alternative to his circus act.

  60. Diplomat, I think the angst comes largely from Roosh’s role in instigating the mansosphere. He has a self-righteous video where he proclaims himself to be the Manosphere’s ‘father,’ and he exaggerates a fair amount from what I can deduce. But he was there, talking about these topics, from the beginning.

    I’ve only been here for 2-3 years. So I wasn’t there. I dunno how this feels to more longtime redpillers. I imagine it kinda sucks. And I can see Rollo’s frustration at a man who should be an ally doing his best to sell the Manosphere out to the lowest bidder in an unlikely bid for notoriety.

    I’ve read one of Roosh’s books, and a couple of blog posts. None made a gigantic impact on me. I tended to find them underwhelming, and his written style and video presence to be cautious, wooden, and stilted. I didn’t dislike him, but never really saw the appeal. But I think that, had I been in a state to swallow the redpill seven years ago, and had found him, he may have seemed an incredible breath of fresh air. It’s just, we’ve moved so much past his level of discourse since then.

    He has a decent but not excellent intellect, and a mediocre charisma. It’s to his credit that he threw modern conventions and programming the bird and found a unique path, and spoke about it honestly. The discoveries and experiences of a fairly average man, an average man apprehending his full potential in spite of his own limitations, set the minds of many afire. Now that those men – with some exceptional men among them, perhaps disproportionately represented here – are doing the same, he’s rather outclassed. I’d rather he smile about it more and try to shut up his compatriots less, but he does find himself in a bit of bind currently.

    Christian McQueen is a bit in the same boat IMHO. Have you heard his interviews? I haven’t listened to all of them, but those I have, he’s totally out of his depth talking with the men he has onboard. Not by leaps and bounds, but noticeably. That said, I respect the way he’s been able to make things happen that otherwise wouldn’t. And, since he’s using his talents, whatever they are, to support a vision broader than himself while not denying himself, I give a toast to him. And I get a bit frustrated how some feeble fear mongering crops up every time he gets involved. He’s a Hollywood dude. I expect some degree of scheisterdom. Anyone who doesn’t is a fool. That has little to do with the quality of his output.

  61. @Rollo

    I agree. If I had seen the stuff going on right now during my first few weeks on the red pill, I would have used it all as an excuse to eject. It was only your rigid adherence to a strongly rational frame that kept me onboard in spite of the anger and disbelief. Even then, CH/Roissy almost poisoned it for me with the wildness and the racism. In that case, his rock-solid consistency with Game held me fast, though I had to take a break from him.

    Roosh is simply coming across as silly and desperate. He clearly cares more for spectacle than truth currently, more for emotion than understanding. At the stage I am now, I could almost laugh with him sometimes. But not when I think of how it could make many men dismiss the RP as so much reality TV.

  62. @Rollo and Forge

    Two things I know indisputably: 1) You can’t kill an idea. And especially one that is rooted in absolute truth and bountiful utility; and 2) Legitimate ideas wait out inconvenient historical circumstance with patience, fortitude, and ever-thickening roots.

    RE: Roosh. Isolate him, deny him legitimacy through amused unconcern, and ridicule him for what he represents whenever the topic is unavoidable. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. It will snowball the legitimate manosphere’s disconnect and rob him of his self-anointed spokesmanship.

    RE: McQueen. Maybe it’s his game. Being the boozy, smoky, regular joe who brings out the big guns and then steps aside and lets them shine their light. Pretty brilliant and effective strategy, if that’s his deal. He seems to aim his sights squarely on all the right targets. If nothing else, he at least recognizes the vanguard.

    1. As I’ve stated before, I’ve learned that when an idiot is explaining himself it’s best not to interrupt him.

      I can post an epic about Roosh’s false-flag free speech horse shit and his long standing policy of banning and blocking anyone who dissents or calls him to the carpet, but then I thought, give him time. Guys like this will always hang themselves eventually.

  63. If Roosh never existed , feminists would have invented him.
    The damage this idiot caused to the credibility of the manosphere is beyond repair.
    The “make rape legal” post of his, went unchallenged by the manosphere . It’ll come back to haunt every one who didn’t jump ship back then.

    This is what happens when the banner is given to boys.

  64. @Rollo

    My concern is his delegitimizing TRP and harming or disgusting the men who would otherwise need a rational alternative to his circus act.

    We can’t control what he does. Only what we do. You’ve always made it clear you’re about bottom up change. Individual men and all that. Worrying about the ‘sphere and its reputation as a whole makes no sense in that frame of mind.

    It’ll all be fine so long as we just let him burn himself out and we as individuals act sensibly. Leading by example is all we can or need to do. Feminists and the general public being lead around by the FI are going to hate us for saying what we say regardless of how sensible it is or how idiotically Roosh acts.

    What we do and who we are in our daily lives though (regardless of how much our words or ideas are hated when laid bare) are undeniably positive. That’s all any of us needs to concern ourselves with. The ‘sphere’s reputation will be built through individual men simply living positive lives for themselves that others see.

    Lead by example. Always lead by example.

  65. @Rollo

    Perhaps one of the next posted entries you might strongly consider would be an analytical “State of the Manosphere” breakdown, considering recent developments in regard to further compromised public perception and the possible negative effects on the men who might benefit from RP but may have been turned away by the antics of a few bad players (who don’t even need to be named). You don’t have to call anybody in particular out, but rather speak of the consequences of undermining such an important dialogue.

    I realize that nearly every post you put up here is a position paper in its own right, however, you are uniquely qualified to dissect and project where we’ve been, where we’re currently at, and where we’re (hopefully) going—in the measured and uncompromisingly honest way that is your signature style in both the articles and in the comments.

    If there is an identifiable, worthy, balanced, and judicious ‘father figure’ of the manosphere—it’s you. Especially now. And I would unconditionally assert that it is roundly supported by your excellent body of work and the many, many people who follow it.

    If nothing else, I’m certain that it would lead to a subsequent discussion thread of unprecedented scope here at TRM.

    Obviously, it’s on a lot of people’s minds right now.

    1. @The Diplomat
      “If there is an identifiable, worthy, balanced, and judicious ‘father figure’ of the manosphere—it’s you. Especially now. And I would unconditionally assert that it is roundly supported by your excellent body of work and the many, many people who follow it.”
      What explains experience vs the world?
      Since 2009

  66. Roosh has always been hard for me to take seriously. His “big picture” analysis always seems to be off the mark.

  67. @Forge the Sky

    “Even then, CH/Roissy almost poisoned it for me with the wildness and the racism. ”

    It was actually the opposite for me (and I suspect many others). CH’s honesty on race lent more credibility to his game/women posts.

  68. I had a concept banging around my head, and I think Sun created a nucleation point for it to crystallize.

    It’s nothing too profound. I just think that the ‘mansophere,’ though a useful label and identity, isn’t something we should be banking on collectively to be the change we want to see. I think it’s futile to expect it to become a (somewhat) coordinated movement like feminism. Men simply don’t have the correct collective identity to make that happen. Heck, a lot of what we talk about here has to do with men shedding what collective identity they do have – ‘mental point of origin’ and all.

    Who wants to start telling single women under 30 to become their own mental points of origin? Lol. They tend to gain identity through a collective perspective.

    So I think we’re at our strongest when we’re promoting the individual strengths of other men, in the direction of a sane masculinity. Whatever that looks like. I’m less interested in, for example, changing people’s viewpoints from some religion to the sort of agnostic theism I’ve settled into, than I am trying to spur them into becoming the best expression of their own religious beliefs. I was trying to tell some dude on Dragonfly’s blog the other day, dude, your religion isn’t about waiting around for God to give you supernatural presents and validation. It’s very active, and very costly. You need to leave all your ego behind. You need to be able to give everything up for the people that disagree with you, even hate you. That’s a sane Christianity.

    But this is why we promote masculinity without dogma, without ethic, without even all that much praxis. It’s about courage, mastery, honor, and self-realization. As soon as we make it about a guru or an in-group, we begin to dig away at our foundations. Such a collusion could conceivably win the battle for a day, or a week, or a year. But it would destroy the reason, and the method, behind what Rollo and the rest of us are trying to do here.

    It’s like the old Buddhist saying – ‘If you meet the Buddha on your travels, kill him.’ We can show you the path. You have to walk it.

    We can’t tell this to anyone directly, not unless they already ‘get’ it to a degree. (Anselm – ‘I believe, so that I may understand.’) So the only tools we have are 1) Masculine ridicule, demonstrated so exuberantly here by YaReally; and 2) the tireless product of demonstration over explication. The possession of a frame so strong it seems like a natural law; so that anyone can test themselves against it and know that, if they err, it will say: ‘Not this way. This way.’

    Just to round off a trifecta of religious quotes: ‘Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.”

  69. @Forge the Sky.

    I think that is a very valid point to bring up. I think the TL;DR version of what you are expounding on is that a bottoms up approach to making individual men red pill aware and amorally game practiced is infinitely more value for you and I than a top down approach to listening to a “messiah”. Rollo points this out in his interviews.

    The former is Rollo’s approach and the latter is Roosh’s Neo-masculinity approach . The former incorporates adaptability (men must adapt to employ their inherent sexual strategy) to current intersexual relations in societies we live in, the latter top down schema does not (because all else is not equal). Because “all else is not equal” i.e. there are too many different variables, it is futile to have a prescriptive message. Roosh certaintly tries to but doesn’t have a coherent prescription for men with Neo-masculinity. It is just more a garbled description (same old stuff with his emotions thrown in).

    1. The problem with Roosh’s (and to a degree the MRM’s) top down sales pitch is that the end result is a mob-religion based on jingoisms, easily digestible talking points and an us v. them team tribalism.

      From what I’ve seen thus far Roosh’s brand isn’t based in real understanding or rational inquiry. It’s all about confronting SJWs the the same, but opposite sort of bumpersticker agit-prop SJWs use themselves.

      I’m all for confronting the ideologies of SJWs in a forum and crucible of open debate and free speech where either side can suss out the truth of those ideologies, but neither Roosh nor the SJWs he opposes are interested in testing the strengths of their convictions in such a manner.

      It’s not good business for either of them.

  70. Not trying to be Jekyll and Hyde, but I think there was my old moniker in a cookie on my work computer (sjfrellc) with that last comment.

    While I’m at it, as a personal service announcement, things are going well with me in red pill and game. I’ve reached a higher plane this summer. If I post less now it is because I am less unsure of where I am going. I’m controlling outcomes better. I’m very appreciative of Rollo’s efforts to educate and the community of commentators he has cultivated. Several of the commentators here have been a wellspring of inspiration for me offline. Thanks to them too.

  71. Holy Shit! Roosh just made Time magazine. He’s also going to go on Gavin McGinnes’s show. Do you guys think he’s going to go mainstream?

    1. @sjfrellc
      “The former incorporates adaptability (men must adapt to employ their inherent sexual strategy)”

      The red pill
      Male sexual strategy… Just getting into that. Without the red pill I would have never seen the point in attempting to reproduce because of all the massive unrelenting shit testing.
      I wouldn’t change a thing. I am growing and respect this space deeply.

  72. @Rollo

    The problem with Roosh’s (and to a degree the MRM’s) top down sales pitch is that the end result is a mob-religion based on jingoisms, easily digestible talking points and an us v. them team tribalism.

    Agreed. It’s the same as any religion acting as a grab for money or power for those at the top. The entire reason for top-down structures is for the benefit of the top.

    From what I’ve seen thus far Roosh’s brand isn’t based in real understanding or rational inquiry. It’s all about confronting SJWs the the same, but opposite sort of bumpersticker agit-prop SJWs use themselves.

    Confrontation and controversy are the marketing of religions.

    I’m all for confronting the ideologies of SJWs in a forum and crucible of open debate and free speech where either side can suss out the truth of those ideologies, but neither Roosh nor the SJWs he opposes are interested in testing the strengths of their convictions in such a manner.

    Don’t look at it as debate. Look at it as a pair of marketing campaigns with the SJWs playing the unwitting assistants to Roosh’s plans through their histrionics. His plans may be dumb, but they’re helping him succeed at them.

    It’s not good business for either of them.

    Who cares? We want both groups to fail. The sooner the better. Let your enemies fight each other, then finish off the weakened survivor if there is one.

  73. Fuck. Breitbart just congratulated Roosh. Not sure if I agree with Roosh all the way but…well played sir…well played.

    1. Funny how Roosh is readily willing to consort with “moral deviants” and “homosexual degenerates” when they have access to legitimate media.

      And here I thought homosexuals were unwelcome in Neo-Masculinity, pffft,…

  74. I find it telling that using the term “father figure” elicits comparisons to buddhas, messiahs, cults, and in-groups. It’s a sad statement that even the RP men have come to distrust the role of traditional patriarchal leadership to that extent, and it further proves my point that a rational male oriented meta-analysis of the current state(s) of the various factions of TRP community would be instructive and would at least give a handful of curious-but-misguided, intelligent, BP men a balanced and grown up perspective that they can glean something useful from. The waters out there are getting choppier, and just because most of us here are safe on shore doesn’t mean we should shut down the lighthouse or go overboard to prove we’re not the RV Neomasculinity Brigade.

    I’m a father, myself. For me, that is defined by being judicious, balanced, and reliable for the benefit and betterment of myself and those closest to me—especially when I can clearly see that they don’t have their own best interests at heart. Sometimes it’s about letting someone fall on their ass, even when it’s difficult to watch. It isn’t about my family pledging fealty to me, speaking up in my defense, or even following my advice. The important thing is that I am a good role model, honorable, display mastery, provide useful information, maintain rationality, establish clear boundaries, mete out consequences when appropriate, and hold unshakeable RP frame. I do it for me, for the people I care about—and most of all I do it because it’s the right thing to do. Take it or leave it.

    Nobody ever said, “If you see an intelligent, honorable, helpful, masculine father in the road…kill him” (except maybe a severely bent radical feminist). Somebody highly visible in RP land needs to be the grown up right now. Or not. Whatever.

    I will once again point out: it’s on everybody’s minds right now. And not inconsequentially, the MSM. Usually it’s more productive to be ahead of a thing than spending all your energy coping with the aftermath.

  75. Well done, Diplomat. I have a very good father myself, and your point makes good sense too me. Given that, it’s very interesting how I seemed to have such a hasty line drawn between ‘father’ and ‘totalitarian cult leader.’

    Though to be fair, that line was definitely highlighted by Roosh’s self-declaration of himself as the Manosphere’s ‘father’ and his subsequent actions. Even so, one thinks I would have been given pause at his characterization of fatherhood in that grandiloquent speech….

  76. This has me thinking. Generally, we in the Manosphere ridicule ‘white knights.’ This actually took a bit of an acclimation period for me; I grew up admiring the general character of heroes who defended the weak. Here, we make fun of men who are trying to give the appearance of doing so as a sexual strategy, or as a way of appearing tough against straw men or opponents they would never truly challenge.

    I wonder if we’re missing a useful archetype in the scuffle. In a similar way to how The Diplomat argued that fatherhood – defined in a properly masculine way, rather than a cheap and self-serving way – is something the manosphere could actually benefit from.

    I know some men here who, when shown another man’s weakness under assault, lend their strength to them to bring them up upon their feet. I don’t think there’s a lack of that. I just think it might be useful distinction.

    You can help the weak, or not. Your choice, naturally. But a lot of criticism against the Manosphere levels down to not white-knighting feminist and feminine causes as our culture expects. So it might be helpful to recognize that helping the weak is part of our MO. But the feminine and feminists aren’t the weak. Not now, not for a long time. The error occurs because humans are wired to reflexively defend women against danger, for the good of future generations. Even when, as now, they are so far from risk as to be a risk to others.

  77. @SJF

    Ultimately the only approach that creates real strength, or real change, is the bottom-up approach. The collective top-down approach generally just transfers allegiance from one authority to another, and does nothing to change fundamental mindsets.

    Group thinking is powerful. Group emotions are powerful. They are great for basic, survival-type purposes. If we’re aiming for higher shit than that, we need to pursue greatness at the exclusion of those who would hold us back.

    That said, from a Game perspective, creating collective emotions/arousal in a group of girls is truly king 😉

    1. @Forge the sky
      “or as a way of appearing tough against straw men or opponents they would never truly challenge.”

      In large part that makes me think of how I would rather listen than talk. Not that I am the best at it. But I will not since being in the red pill say something online that I wouldn’t say in person. Rugby drills that in with group team work and lifting.

      “Game perspective, creating collective emotions/arousal in a group of girls is truly king ;)”

  78. @Rollo
    “And here I thought homosexuals were unwelcome in Neo-Masculinity, pffft,…”

    What I’m enjoying most is all the videogame, fantasy movie, scifi movie, etc. videos and memes and quotes (someone was quoting passages out of the Lord of the Rings books) and threads in their forum that everyone in neo-masculinity is using to rally up and motivate themselves for the big battle. Between that and how half of them have videogame reviews and discussions and shit on their YouTube channels it’s like where does that whole “Technological skepticism” tennant come into play, neo-masculinists? When are some of you going to put down the X-Box controller and hit the gym and live off the land and shit like you’re telling other guys to do?

    Or maybe what I’m enjoying more is when they post the gifs of goodfellas etc guys in suits all drinking and laughing and being boss as they write how totally accurate that gif represents the talk. Meanwhile Roosh posted actual pics from the talk that shows the students (all of them with black boxes hiding most of their heads but still I sure wouldn’t have done that hope no one was wearing a shirt other people will recognize and end up doxxed) and they’re all just dudes in t-shirts and shit, some badly dressed, a bunch of them not in shape etc. Even the place they had the talk in just looks like a standard looking event hall like a kid’s b’day party it wasn’t tables lined with fancy glassware and chandeliers and origami cloth napkins and shit like they’re making it out to be lol

    Full out LARP mode…probably because they aren’t technologically skeptical enough to avoid LARP’ing inspirations lol

    It’s hard to pick what part of this whole thing is the funniest but it would take like a week max to pretty much discredit the entire movement literally just based on their own content/actions.

    That’s what happens when you take that top-down approach, you have all these guys who are like “ya, neo-masculinity!! Technology sucks!! …except my X-Box. And LotR that’s just a really good movie. And Gladiator, I mean, come on it’s GLADIATOR…and I’m kind of tired, I don’t really wanna hit the gym today I think I’ll write another blog about how fat chicks don’t deserve love as I scarf some more donuts, then get back to my X-Box.” because they don’t have the same value system as the cult leader.

    But when you go from the bottom-up, which is how old-school PUA worked, we basically said “look what do YOU want? You don’t even KNOW what you want yet, let’s give you the tools to figure THAT out, and then here are more tools that will help you guide shit toward your personal goals…if you WANT a monoLTR, cool, we’ll help you with that. If you want mLTRs or fuckbuddies or a harem, here’s some shit that will help with that. Just do whatever makes you happy. If you LIKE Warcraft, go ahead and play it but just keep it in check and understand that you have to go out if you want to get a girlfriend and it’s your choice if you want to pursue Warcraft or a girlfriend, and if you just want to fuck random girls and toss them aside, cool, here’s how to do it relatively safely”.

    So we were all coming into it to get what speaks to us personally out of it. We were taught to define our own value systems instead of inheriting them from a cult leader and it was a LONG SLOW PROCESS and we knew it WOULD be. Mystery said from day 1 not to clone him he didn’t want little mini-Mystery’s running around, personalize all your routines and RSD constantly stresses being congruent to yourself and your values. (now with the mass commercialization of pickup it’s sometimes veering into “here’s my value system you should adopt it” territory but even then it’s often vague stuff no one would really disagree with like “take care of your body, hit the gym” instead of “no homosexuals allowed” lol and it’s still custom-tailored to getting the type of relationships you want out of the game, if you follow my own writing you’ll never see me tell a guy what he SHOULD value, I’ll only inform him of the realities of what his current value system will lead to and the pros/cons of other values that he may want to consider, but ultimately all I care about is that that guy is happy…he can get married if he WANTS to, but I’ll let him know the realities of marriage and monoLTRs and how it changes power dynamics and the legalities involved etc so that he can make an informed decision…but ultimately if he WANTS to be married and he GETS married and he’s HAPPY being married then I am as happy for him as I am for my player buddy running a harem)

    Roosh is essentially saying “all you guys have to want to bang X number of girls of Y type, in Z arrangement to be a part of our cult! Here’s what your views have to be on other subjects too, if you wanna be part of the cool kids club you better get in line and adopt my belief system!”

    That can really only work on guys who don’t have much independence and are looking for a leader to follow, which is exactly the type of guy neo-masculinity shouldn’t, on paper, want in its movement, but is perfect for building a cult following into a sustainable profitable lifestyle. He’ll have a Patreon up within a year and probably do fine for himself in the long-run. But that’s okay in neo-masculinity, profiting off teaching guys game was only bad when it was RSD doing it, now that Roosh is doing it it’s so OBVIOUS how necessary and acceptable and brilliant it is lol

    Credit where it’s due tho, he handled himself much better in this friendly interview than on Dr Oz lol:

    Gavin is a boss and heavily red pill, him making fun of the Dr Oz clips and feminist protests is gold.

    P.S. Milo transcends his gayness. I don’t think he’d even be offended by that sentence lol

  79. I just think that the ‘mansophere,’ though a useful label and identity, isn’t something we should be banking on collectively to be the change we want to see. I think it’s futile to expect it to become a (somewhat) coordinated movement like feminism. Men simply don’t have the correct collective identity to make that happen.

    I’d add that single men today have every conceivable incentive to be passive. Current trends in politics, culture and the mating market are all pushing them in that direction. You may like this or not, but the fact is that this is the current in our time. And when you try to swim against the current, you’ll get more exhausted, more frustrated and angrier. Just look at the behavior of tradcons, PUAs and feminists when it comes to the social roles and condition of men. Don’t be like them. Don’t swim against the current, let it carry you instead.

    1. @hoellenhund2
      “I’d add that single men today have every conceivable incentive to be passive.”

      Samurai Song

      When I had no roof I made
      Audacity my roof. When I had
      No supper my eyes dined.

      When I had no eyes I listened.
      When I had no ears I thought.
      When I had no thought I waited.

      When I had no father I made
      Care my father. When I had
      No mother I embraced order.

      When I had no friend I made
      Quiet my friend. When I had no
      Enemy I opposed my body.

      When I had no temple I made
      My voice my temple. I have
      No priest, my tongue is my choir.

      When I have no means fortune
      Is my means. When I have
      Nothing, death will be my fortune.

      Need is my tactic, detachment
      Is my strategy. When I had
      No lover I courted my sleep.

      “Don’t be like them. Don’t swim against the current, let it carry you instead.”

      To oppose is to support

  80. It is interesting to read the criticism of McQueen. However the links claiming plagiarism don’t work, so those can’t really serve as proof. Not that that’s wrong, as copying content for cash is older than the internet.

    Thieving/shaking-down-in-a-club is something I doubt Christian could get away with with me, and I confess I would be rather gobsmacked to watch it work on someone in person at a random after-ted-talk session in Vegas.

    The direct link to 30daystox also has a begging the question “proof” that McQueen confirmed the posts contents, which speaks poorly of Robert. Not that it is unreasonable to assume that someone who is a liar is prone to lawsuits.

    The timing makes it look like a smear job to raise Roosh’s tour and play down Christians event, to be frank. This is not to say that Robert is entirely lying, no, if he were then it would be too obviously a smear job. What he’s posted does indeed make me want to watch what goes on at the event with the brain engaged to see if there is indeed some snake oil salesmanship.

    Actually, this revelation makes me look forward to it even more, for obvious reasons.

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