Post Selection

post-selection

Anonymous Reader on Dalrock’s thread had an interesting observation about women’s (wives’) dumbfounded response to discovering that the Beta chump they believed would be entirely optionless and adrift after they divorced, in fact, had far more SMV capital than her solipsism would allow her to acknowledge:

So, dear Lisa, you (a) had a husband but (b) decided you did not want him anymore and now (c) other women do want him? Whose fault is this, again? Great display of a version of preselection that ought to be called “post selection” (if Rollo or Heartiste or someone else hasn’t already thought of that).

Reminds me of a divorce I saw from a moderate distance a few years ago. Wife got a couple of promotions at her work, while her salesman husband just plodded along with the usual feast or famine of that business. She apparently got “married” to her job, putting in long hours serving the situational alpha men she worked for. Then at home made up for the long hours by showering attention on the kids while stiffarming “whats-his-name”. When he had an affair she was, by all accounts, surprised. When he had a second affair she divorced him. Both were churchgoing, and I agree that she had Bible-based grounds for divorce, there was no question he was cheating. But he wasn’t the roving-eye type for the first 5 to 10 years of marriage, so perhaps a certain lack of something tempted him to cheat? What could it have been?

Familiarity breeds contempt, but it also breeds complacency.

I’ve stated in many prior thread that familiarity, comfort, rapport, vulnerability and security are all anti-seductive attributes when it come to women’s sexual response. I’m not saying those elements aren’t intrinsically good or bad, just that men shouldn’t buy the boilerplate sexual filibustering of women who would have them believe they are in anyway arousal cues for women.

As Roissy’s maxim states – “‘Gina tingles are born in the defensive crouch.”

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she’ll have sex with you regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek at the end of the night, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

The problem most husbands and LTR live-in boyfriends experience in this respect is that there is no opportunity for a fresh start once that pattern of familiarity and comfort has been established and is what’s expected from him.

This principle is easy for us to understand from the man’s side, but what about the woman’s?

Anonymous’ observations here tell a broader story. Dal’s quick-hit post and the article he linked there is well worth the read, but it essentially illustrates a common regret women are forced to acknowledge when they’ve opted out of a relationship, or were opted out of by their men as a result of their protracted dissatisfaction with those women – they simply cannot fathom that the Beta man they cut loose has a sexual market value that other women would not just appreciate, but jump at, far quicker than they imagined.

Considering that 70%+ of all divorces are initiated by women, women opting out is usually the case. If you track along with the time line I presented in Preventive Medicine you can also see that this opt out (first divorce) window usually coincides with the time a man is (should be) experiencing his SMV peak.

After 7 or so years of marriage the familiarity, the routine and the comfort a woman expects from her statistically Beta husband are cemented for her. Reliable, sensible, comforting and responsible make for a great security prospect, but a boring ‘fuck prospect’. Unless that woman is casually, but frequently put into the defensive crouch (via passive dread) that man’s Archetype is set in her mind for her. His behavior is predictable and familiar, and boring to the point that she suspects no woman but her would ‘tolerate’ him.

In fact this perception is reinforced for her, not just by a fem-centric culture, but her husband’s constant self-deprecating praise of how “lucky he is to have a woman like her who’d put up with a guy like him. Haha, LOL.” In spite of all this supplication, women still affirm that man as the unexciting Beta chump who she subconsciously pegs would be entirely optionless in the SMP were (when) he to be re-released back into the wild.

Women want to get with a man that other men want to be, and other women want to fuck.

This is an easy maxim for a woman who’s single, but it takes on new imperatives when that man is fighting against the familiarity and comfort elements that come with long term monogamy and living together. That familiar complacency combined with Hypergamic social expectations makes women doubt that the man they thought other women might compete for has morphed into an optionless schlub only she would have the patience to constantly tolerate.

One of the reasons I advise against men and women shacking up is because the comfort and regularity of that living situation eventually becomes a disincentive for women to maintain a consistent sexual desire and urgency for the man she’s paired with. Women are at their ‘sexual best’ when men keep them at arms reach, and this is primarily due to the anxiety she experiences in the doubt over whether she’ll be able to consolidate on an optimized Hypergamy with that guy.

Post Selection

As Anonymous hints at, there is a form of social proof a ‘released’ man enjoys once he’s been cut from women’s Hypergamous equation. To understand how this works we need to remember that Hypergamy is fundamentally rooted in doubt:

The Abdication Imperative

Hypergamy is rooted in doubt. Hypergamy is an inherently insecure system that constantly tests, assesses, retests and reassesses for optimal reproductive options, long-term provisioning, parental investment, and offspring and personal protection viability in a potential mate. Even under the most secure of prospects hypergamy still doubts. The evolutionary function of this incessant doubt would be a selected-for survival instinct, but the process of hypergamy’s assessment requires too much mental effort to be entirely relegated to women’s subconscious. Social imperatives had to be instituted not only to better facilitate the hypergamous process, but also to reassure the feminine that men were already socially pre-programmed to align with that process.

Dumping a woman is the highest form of social proof for a man.

In no uncertain terms he demonstrates to her that he has the supreme confidence he can find another woman with better prospect than her. Even if this isn’t the pretext of the breakup, this is the message in the medium that she understands; she doesn’t measure up to his expectations.

This then is further compounded by the unconscious knowledge that it should be women who are socially in charge of the sexual selection and approval process. When a man dumps a woman he demonstrably takes that agency away from her.

However, the effectiveness of that social proof for the dumped woman is only proportional to the doubt that he may have been a better, more optimal Hypergamic choice for her. We understand the effectiveness even a fabricated perception of preselection has on women, but depending on the psychological impact a man has, post-selection and the uncertainty of his long term fitness can be so powerful it can create an Alpha Widow of her.

Hypergamous doubt makes women creatures of constant comparison. Thus, when (if) she makes another intimate connection after that breakup, the new guy is held next to the comparison of the previous one. Once that comparison is made, that post-selection value of the previous guy (or lack thereof) becomes reinforced for her.

Starting Over

Women have a biological imperative to restart the Hypergamic process far more rapidly than men when they’re younger and closer to their SMV peak. They have more time to capitalize on it.

However, once they are on the opposite side of the Wall and men are ascending to their own SMV peak, “getting over” the relationship is equated with remarriage because men have the SMV advantage. That previous husband or LTR lover has the power of selection and confirmation she no longer holds as she did in her youth.

Women have far less marketability and prospect to restart that Hypergamic process once this agency exchanges hands with men. They’ve lost on a perceived long-term investment. Thus her brooding fixates on his ease of finding a new mate, with his remarriage being the context of finalizing that break with her.

I should also add that rarely is consideration is given to the incentives and reasons for the breakup whatsoever on her part. Convenient social conventions aid her in thinking she is blameless in the circumstances that led to the split and he is heartless for “getting over’ her at all, much less quickly. We are left to presume that it’s he who should suffer the same or more. He should be pining for her, he should be regretting the split.

It’s far easier for a man to move on with new women when his benchmark for intimacy was set by a sexless marriage to an authoritarian, shaming, shrew. Maybe it’s that thought that really hurts – it was easy to get over her because the opt out for him is sooooo much better a prospect than a lifetime of having to untangle her hangups about him.

Final Thought

Bear in mind this post-selection dynamic is only effective insofar as a man’s SMV can be actualized outside of his previous relationship.

Women only contemplate whether a man has moved on from her quickly when they care to concern themselves with it. If it was she who initiated the breakup with her Beta husband/LTR women are simply indifferent to what the guy is doing a year or so down the road.

Nothing is more satisfying to a woman than to believe she’s figured a man out using her mythical feminine intuition. This works in a positive sense when a man leads her to believe she’s genuinely got inside his head, but it also works in the self-convincing negative sense when she dismisses a guy who no longer qualifies for her long term (or short term sexual) hypergamic interests.

The satisfying feminine indignation comes from convincing herself he was never really as invested as he led her to believe he was. Thus the loss of investment is converted to betrayal and becomes a source of self-righteousness despite any circumstance she contributed to the break herself.

304 comments

  1. I’m 60. In great shape physically. Work out every day. Hike, cycle, and so on. Good ballroom dancer. Play guitar. I found red pill at the start of this year when my wife was gearing up to dump me because she wasn’t happy.

    Wife told me that I’d be a lonely old man after she dumped me, doomed to be alone and single for the rest of my life. I wondered about that.

    Wife then moved elsewhere in the house. Obviously the sex stopped. As did pretty much everything else. Wife still unhappy then told everyone she knew, including our grown kids, that we were separating. Wife, much overweight, figured she was the prize and didn’t have to try any more

    Truth be told, I really wasn’t interested in a separation. I was busy and having fun without her (her excess weight stopped her doing most stuff).

    Anyway I decide to go to dances without her. I’m still wondering, is she right that I can’t get another woman? I discovered her line so far from reality, that I don’t know why she’s fooling herself. I ended up hooking up with a lively woman who wanted to be with me and is sexually available.

    My wife is in for two rude awakenings. One is that her supposed dead-end husband has a couple of other women on the side, and I didn’t even try very hard. Just some dancing, and a bit of guitar in the park. Two is that her own unhappiness and bitterness at her age (60) will make it tough to find another man.

    My message here to women is to think very carefully before tossing old reliable off the cliff. You may find he lands on his feet really quickly, while you languish in the pool of old divorced women with baggage.

  2. ‘Convenient social conventions aid her in thinking she is blameless in the circumstances that led to the split and he is heartless for “getting over’ her at all, much less quickly’

    That is great stuff Rollo. I think you just nailed the primary qualification to become a relationship and divorce advice blogger on the Huffington Post.

  3. @thedecline

    “That is great stuff Rollo. I think you just nailed the primary qualification to become a relationship and divorce advice blogger on the Huffington Post.”

    lol From all that I’ve ever seen, the only qualification for being a HuffPo relationship and divorce advice blogger is to dutifully parrot the FI, bash positive masculinity, and get the hamster wheels spinning at 5000rpm.

  4. Post selection for older women goes right along with women wanting an already made man. If she is surprised by her ex suddenly being seen as a hot commodity, then she has forgotten about how women want a man who is established, so to speak, than one that will be. Which has been mentioned here before, of course.
    And also, women of any age, regardless of who initiated the break-up, can’t stand it if their ex finds another before they do. And I would say that even is partly why, it may be subconsciously done, they’ll often break-up with somebody new already in place.
    As a comedian once said, a guy will get fed up and say that’s it, I’m done. Then will realize, dang, I got to go out and find somebody now.
    But the girl, when she says she thinks it’s time for the two of you to start seeing somebody else, she already found somebody else.

  5. Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

    Women want to get with a man that other men want to be, and other women want to fuck.

    familiarity, comfort, rapport, vulnerability and security are all anti-seductive attributes when it come to women’s sexual response. I’m not saying those elements aren’t intrinsically good or bad, just that men shouldn’t buy the boilerplate sexual filibustering of women who would have them believe they are in anyway arousal cues for women.

    After 7 or so years of marriage the familiarity, the routine and the comfort a woman expects from her statistically Beta husband are cemented for her. Reliable, sensible, comforting and responsible make for a great security prospect, but a boring ‘fuck prospect’. Unless that woman is casually, but frequently put into the defensive crouch (via passive dread) that man’s Archetype is set in her mind for her. His behavior is predictable and familiar, and boring to the point that she suspects no woman but her would ‘tolerate’ him.

    THE RED PILLS IN THIS POST ARE OFF THE CHARTS. You should call it The Red Pill Post!!!

  6. Case in point is Sandra LaMorgese who is a divorcee and Ph.D who currently has the top article in the Love and Sex section. I can hear the wheel spinning.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sandra-lamorgese-phd/sexual-confidence_b_7947504.html?utm_hp_ref=love–sex

    ‘ I myself faced this problem of sexual confidence when I returned to the dating scene in my 50s. I was financially independent, full of vitality, and ready to have some fun, but my head was still full of the uncomfortable and unfulfilling lifelong patterns I’d had with men. It was clear to me that if I wanted a different experience in romance, I had to change the way I thought and felt about myself, dating, relationships, and sex. I needed to let go and take some risks in order to boost my confidence and to open myself up to sexual renewal.

    So, I joined a Cougar dating site.’

    That is followed by presumably a picture of her in lingerie in a cage, lol.

  7. Women want to get with a man that other men want to be, and other women want to fuck.

    Noticed that in rugby

  8. Ph.D. Author, Radio Talk Show Host, Sexpert, Metaphysician, Motivational Speaker, Holistic Practitioner, and Ordained Reverend

    We should introduce her to Roosh.

  9. “sexless marriage to an authoritarian, shaming, shrew”

    Excellent description of my former marriage. Thanks.

    It’s been a bit more than two years since I filed for my divorce. And I’ve been amazingly happy since. Did a fair bit of dating and am currently seeing a woman 10 years my junior (I’m 50 BTW). The level of arousal I continue to generate in her is a surprise to me. But a very pleasant one.

    As for my ex, I sometimes vindictively hope she’s as miserable as the woman who wrote the article. But I can’t be bothered to find out. I’m not even sure where she is living. I just don’t care. She had her chance and blew it.

  10. @Rollo,

    Neomasculinity couldn’t afford to hire her as a motivational speaker given that impressive resume, lol. I couldn’t stop laughing upon reading “Ordained Reverend” given that cougar dating picture of her in a dog-kennel.

  11. @John

    Three cheers for you. Your (overweight) wife is in for a rude awakening. It appears to me that many, if not all, post-wall women are holding onto a grossly inflated perception of their sexual market value which is grounded in their actual pre-wall sexuall market value.

  12. I have seen like 20+ divorces of early 30s women. I agree women are idiots. They liked the nice beta while they had 1-2 kids in diapers.

    But… they woman’s career starts to take off and bam they are unhaaaapy.

    I have counseled like 6 women not to divorce. I knew they would be really unhappy after they hit the 30+ dating market. But alas only one listened. And she still bitched about her beta loser she took back.

    Arrrgh.

    My current theory about 30ish divorcees is that it’s actually a cry for a man to alpha up. Like the woman screaming PLEASE ALPHA MALE ME!

    Two ladies I somewhat know and didn’t counsel called off their divorces. In both cases the soon to be ex-husband went bonkers. One shot up a mail box. The other guy took a baseball bat to her windshield after she threatened to not let him see his son.

    Before the red pill I was confused by this illogical female thinking. Now I just marvel at Female Imperative driven hamsters.

  13. Mrs. Gamer came home from work sick today. She was retching so hard that she peed her pants. I gave her some pepto bismol tablets to calm her stomach. She also had a headache, so some ibuprofen helped.

    Mrs. Gamer is an INTJ iron lady. She has come home from work sick twice during our 30+ years of marriage. Tough as nails. Had back labor and barely cried.

    Later today Mrs. Gamer wanted me to lie down on the blanket in front of the TV with her. While I was lying next to her, Mrs. Gamer started flirting with me. I was concerned about her health and didn’t instigate for sex. Mrs. Gamer would have none of it. She rejected all my offers to wait.

    That’s what a woman in love will do. About two years ago we were in a 5-year-long sex drought. So it is possible to turn things around in a sexless marriage.

    I still go out dancing solo on the weekends. My comfort game has gotten a lot better, so Mrs. Gamer doesn’t go Cluster-B anymore on the days that I go out dancing solo.

  14. @Rollo
    “This then is further compounded by the unconscious knowledge that it should be women who are socially in charge of the sexual selection and approval process. When a man dumps a woman he demonstrably takes that agency away from her.”

  15. An interesting aspect of marriage 1.0 was that it was a protective measure against post wall women’s deep seeded fear of being dumped when they’re ‘worn out’ and replaced by newer and prettier options.

    Marriage 2.0 has carried on this spirit by trying to financially shackle men to their post wall anchors.

    An unintended consequence of no fault divorce is that financially stable and high SMV men can take the hit and move on to bigger and better things.

    Just look at childless Elizabeth Gilbert of EPL infamy, her husband moved on and remarried to a diplomat and now has two children, who’s ‘winning’ in this story.

    A little discussed aspect of this scenario is that the internet and social media is inadvertently creating false signalling noise when it comes to the ‘perception’ of the pool of available opposite sex partners.

    Seems like social media is creating false assumptions concerning the size of the pool of available men (or the operating sex ratio) and women are acting accordingly. Only discovering it is not the case (not as extreme as their perceptions implied, though large nonetheless) when it is too late.

    Two opposing sex ratio theories.
    1) Demographic-opportunity theory
    2) Sociocultural theory

    Demographic-opportunity theory:

    Women’s likelihood of having multiple partners and of engaging in extramarital sex will be higher in communities containing relative large numbers of men.

    Sociocultural theory:

    Men will use their structural power to constrain women’s sexual behavior in the face of communities containing relatively large numbers of men.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3244803/#!po=39.1892

    “We test hypotheses derived from two competing theoretical approaches – demographic-opportunity theory and sociocultural theory.”

    “We find that sex ratios are associated with women’s marital and sexual behavior in a manner consistent with demographic-opportunity theory, but not sociocultural theory. A numerical surplus of men hastens the transition to first marriage for women and increases the probability that women engage in premarital, multiple-partner, and extramarital sexual relationships. “

  16. A major problem in today’s feminist imperative is that we men don’t understand their true “value” or under-value themselves—we too often go after substandard women, we accept bad behavior, we limit themselves.

    Once you understand your value or your self-esteem is solid, your interactions with women become easier, more ‘natural’ and enjoyable.

  17. This article is so on the money. I used to date a Polish girl for 6 months who still gets a horde of beta chodes chasing her for commitment and sending her letters with roses attached to it (I shit you not).

    Soon after dumping her for not wanting to be attached and taking a break from each other for a few months. She would eventually contact me, flirt and want to meet up.

    In addition to all of this, I set the frame that I would never consider myself getting married, how all women i’ve ever dated in the past were game players and cheats and find it hard to trust. This set the tone of her now wanting to prove to me of her high value.

    The end result is her cooking me amazing meals, wanting to connect with my older sister and family to now giving me the best sex that I otherwise didn’t have when I was exclusive with her.

    All of this has reaffirmed why marriage and commitment to any one girl is bullshit and why having a harem is the most natural solution. There’s a reason why the Sultans of Turkey kept harems, because it works.

    Women will naturally compete and fight for who will be the Sultan’s or Alpha’s best lover with the Alpha basically sitting back and soaking up the great sex he’s getting from the women.

    Dread and Pre-Selection is Female Hypergamy’s kryptonite. And one that every man has to employ if he’s to find happiness with the women in his life.

  18. No doubt about it, women hate being dumped; not because they are inconsolable – they will get over it in a few months at most, usually less – but because the man has succeeded by his action in revealing that they are not as desirable as they think they are and that he not her was in control of the relationship. Women are not used to being rejected, any more than they are using to being held to account for their actions.

    I have a post break-up letter from an ex-gf who had prior thereto convinced herself that I found her irresistible and yet in that letter (which I have carefully analysed) she gives not the slightest credence to the possibility that her behaviour (off the Richter-scale of unacceptable) could have played any part in my dumping her. Any man when dumped goes into a period of tortuous self-doubt and self-crimination, but she simply set her Hamster loose.

  19. I’m incredibly happy for you, John! I’m 44 and you’ve only confirmed the hopes & suspisions & aspirations I have for myself.

    “Dumping a woman is the highest form of social prof there is”. Man, thank you Rollo & CH for short, incredibly quick disgestible insightful mantras. Sure explains how guys like DiCaprio are able to bang their way through the VS catalog w/o any real consequences from the femedia.

  20. @ walawala

    “Once you understand your value or your self-esteem is solid, your interactions with women become easier, more ‘natural’ and enjoyable.”

    And value and self-esteem have nothing to do with anything but your perception of your value and self-esteem.

    This is why the “mission in life” thing throws me a bit. I don’t agree with the “build and they will come” mentality at all. If you don’t have any Game and just focus on improving your life, you’re going to be building a hell of a long time before any pussy just falls into your lap.

    And if you’re in a line of work like I am, working in complete isolation and having virtually no socialization at all involved anywhere in the process, it’s NEVER going to happen.

    You have to focus on Game separately. Picking up women and getting laid is a skill set, and you can suck at it whether you’re a multi-millionaire or a homeless guy living under a bridge.

    Alpha fucks. And “Alpha” has no specific identity. You can be anyone and come across as Alpha, regardless of what your situation is.

    I’m never going to have a girlfriend, let alone get married and have kids. So who cares? As far as I’m concerned, if I can hook up with a girl ONCE, that’s as good as it’s going to get, and you might as well move onto the next.

    If all modern women are good for is fucking and chucking, then why live your life any other way than what you really want?

    If you want to make a lot of money, that’s great. If you want to make just enough money to scrape by, and you don’t mind having what most people would consider a ‘lower quality of life,’ who cares?

    When you’re the only person you have to answer to, the game changes. There are no rules.

  21. ” After 7 or so years of marriage the familiarity, the routine and the comfort a woman expects from her statistically Beta husband are cemented for her. Reliable, sensible, comforting and responsible make for a great security prospect, but a boring ‘fuck prospect’. Unless that woman is casually, but frequently put into the defensive crouch (via passive dread) that man’s Archetype is set in her mind for her. His behavior is predictable and familiar, and boring to the point that she suspects no woman but her would ‘tolerate’ him. ”

    The burden of man is not that he has to perform. The burden of a man is the woman. It’s really getting clearer and clearer for me.

    Red Pill helps me to understand the true value of a woman.
    And this value is mostly quiet low.

    That leads me to the next points.
    If a man needs to perform (money, status, psycho games like dread and so on) he needs to make sure that he gets an equivalent value in return.
    Thats means that the woman needs to cook well, clean well, stays slim and attractive and giving good sex regulary.

    Is the woman fails to meet these obligations, the man has the right to dump her.

    Period!

    Thank you, Rollo

  22. @Softek
    You make a very good point and was the exact dilemma I was going through.

    What often doesn’t get discussed in the pickup and dating community in detail is the idea that a man has to have a life that is lived with purpose and should be ambitious. Sure it’s not the solution to getting laid.

    But what it does do, which i’m experiencing at first hand is that it brings out a natural aura and sense of direction and confidence that women go crazy for and adds points to your natural attractiveness.

    It also makes you less needy for pussy because you’ll be hopefully in a position where you’re getting fulfilment from the things you’re keeping yourself busy with.

    If you combine this with actually going out and approaching girls or even socialising with people. You will naturally find hooking up with them becomes that much more simple – You’ll no longer have the need to want to hook up and will have a natural aloofness of an alpha without being conscious of it.

    It’s a far more holistic and healthy way of looking at things than what most of the pick up community suggests, which is to keep gaming more girls. Sure it’s a great strategy, but it’s very destructive because you’re placing your entire self-worth on women.

    In short, maintain a healthy balance. Too much of anything is never a good thing.

  23. @ Onder Hassan

    I absolutely agree with your observation of the PUA teachings.

    ” But what it does do, which i’m experiencing at first hand is that it brings out a natural aura and sense of direction and confidence that women go crazy for and adds points to your natural attractiveness.

    It also makes you less needy for pussy because you’ll be hopefully in a position where you’re getting fulfilment from the things you’re keeping yourself busy with”

    Yes, thats very true!

  24. @ Onder

    Agreed. I think it’s just important for guys to realize that having your life together isn’t a prerequisite for getting pussy. They can fall into the trap of thinking that if they just work hard and develop themselves, they’ll get laid — which is Beta, i.e. believing in Negotiated Desire as opposed to understanding the reality of Genuine Desire.

    Those are two extreme ends of the spectrum: guys that end up getting obsessed with pussy and let the rest of their lives fall apart, and guys that have their lives together except for getting pussy, and end up going nuts and shooting up a movie theater or a pilates class.

  25. Why monogamy is broken in 2015:

    Monogamy specifically removes the qualities of a man that are attractive. She no longer has any fear that she’ll lose you to another woman, you lose your social/flirting skills, you lose parts of your social circle (no more female friends, sorry, they’ll make your girl too jealous and give you too much drama with cheating accusations), being around hot women is torture since you can only window shop so going out to bars with your single buddies so you lose some friendships, and living in a high-population is less appealing since you can’t DO anything (a house in the suburbs seems more appealing when walking around a major metropolitan downtown core is temptation in every direction). On top of it, you voluntarily become more supplicative and doting, which lowers your value relative to her’s since the lower-value person dotes on the higher-value person, and start doing things that are inherently beta and unattractive (even if she rewards you for washing the dishes and doing the laundry at FIRST). Since you have a girl who “has” to be with you, you have less incentive to stay in shape or eat healthy because you don’t have to land a mate so most men will let their bodies and grooming go because the only woman who really sees them is their wife and she “has” to put out (lol). And the entire time you have to fight your own instincts and increasing temptations trying not to fuck up despite your raising value as you enter your peak SMV years if you DO take care of yourself.

    Then on top of that you have all the stuff it does to the girl, like raising her value through the roof in her mind since she’s landed you. This manifests down the road in her appreciating you less and finding you less sexually attractive, and because she doesn’t care as much about fucking you she has less incentive to try to turn you on. So she starts letting her grooming go as well, stops dressing sexy for you, gains weight, etc. because why not? And if she doesn’t, there’s a solid chance it’s because she’s looking to monkey-branch to a higher-value man.

    Why does she think she can get a higher-value man? She’s 30, she has a good man who’s been working hard…what does she think is going to happen, she’s going to bail and then upgrade to a rich alpha 6-packed doctor? Yes. Yes she DOES think that. Because mainstream media has been feeding her that delusional fantasy her entire life, from Sex & The City to Girls to the latest Amy Schumer romcom movies. Her friends all call her gorgeous no matter how disgusting she gets and by taking a pic at just the right Myspace Angle she can bathe in the attention of thousands of men online via social media, dating sites and Tinder (not just from good-looking rich men but from celebrities too, she legitimately thinks she can date a AAA celeb because he RT’ed her on Twitter). They don’t want to COMMIT to her, but she’s not thinking about COMMITMENT…Commitment is BORING, she HAS that with you and she’s SO bored and it’s probably your fault somehow anyway. Besides she knows that rich alpha 6-packed doctor might be ABLE to get younger hotter girls with less baggage and bitterness, but like a 5 year old who doesn’t understand that Santa Claus isn’t real she thinks she’s going to win his heart in the long-run just like that girl in 50 Shades of Grey.

    And other men seem attractive. Why? Because they’re FORBIDDEN. Because of monogamy she’s not ALLOWED to fuck them, or date them, or even be AROUND them depending on how jealous her boyfriend is. And those other men look GOOD, because they’re still taking care of themselves or are high-value men at her office, maybe even wearing suits just like Don Draper. She doesn’t know that most of them are chodes under the surface. She doesn’t know most of them will be shitty lays. She doesn’t know most of them, if she went on a date with them, would make so many mistakes that turn her off that she would never even think about fucking them ever again because they’ve demonstrated their low-value to her. All she sees is guys she can’t talk to, giving her orders at work, and are probably sipping scotch in their office like Don Draper because TV is real. If she could spend some time with these men, she’d realize they were shit and her man is overall much higher value and more what she needs. But monogamy FORBIDS it. Don’t eat the apple, Eve!

    She doesn’t even HAVE to break it off with you. She can monkey-branch on the side because Eat Pray Love, you go grrrl! In fact she’s INCENTIVIZED with cash & prizes by the gov’t and society to no-fault divorce you if she’s married to you. No one will call her an idiot, no one will call her a bad person making a mistake, and she can hamster rationalize that you were “emotionally absuive” and throw you and your reputation under the bus while all her girlfriends call her gorgeous and courageous. Grrl-power!!

    Meanwhile, at the same time as all of that is happening, she is ACTIVELY trying to lower your value because she’s instinctively shit-testing you to see how much you value yourself. She made you cookies, will you scarf them down or is your body and health important to you? She’ll be SAD if you don’t eat them all, plus she LIKES you all cuddly! She may even put out more if you eat those cookies! So hey, fuck your personal rules for yourself and your boundaries, bend them a little to make the li’l woman happy. Next time she makes you a nice big home-cooked meal full of fattening foods and way more than you need to be satiated. But hey, you’re getting home-cookin! Plus she likes you a little cuddly! So let’s bend that rule again. And on and on, in all categories from physical appearance, to health, to social life, to hobbies, even to career in some cases. Gotta’ pass that job opportunity up to keep the li’l lady happy! Happy wife, happy life AMIRITE?? ‘course now you’ve shown that she’s your top priority over basically everything and you’re so desperate and in scarcity (oops I mean “in love”) that you’ll sabotage your own financial future and health and friendships etc. for her…which just loops back to feeding her belief that she’s much higher value.

    So that’s monogamy. Sounds awesome. Literally from day one you are stacking as many odds against yourself as possible.

    But let’s say you get through alllll of that up above and still make it work. Well hey, now it’s time to move in together! How’s that going to look?

    Now that you live together you see eachother all day every day. All the mystique vanishes, you hear her taking diarrhea dumps and see her without makeup and sexy outfits, she sees you laying on the couch slothing around watching TV and watching YouTube in your boxers eating kid’s cereal. You can text eachother all day every day so there’s never any question about your whereabouts. She knows where you are and who you’re with 24/7 and if you don’t check in when she asks then she can nag you (and if you don’t comply, hello no-fault divorce!). There’s no mystery to you anymore, and the mystery was part of what was attractive about you. You’re like a solved puzzle, there’s nothing to really do with it, it’s not fun anymore the way it was when she was first dating you and trying to figure you out to get you to settle down.

    So shit gets boring and the sex life dies down. Know why? Because you haven’t shown enough COMMITMENT! If you married her you’d see what a wonderful wife she is! She may even turn on the charm until you propose and right up to the wedding she’s your perfect angel! ‘course after the wedding she lets herself go to shit. Because why WOULDN’T she? She’s in a win/win situation for her. You can’t leave her, and if you do she gets your money and accolades from society and will upgrade to a doctor (in her mind). Why would she keep putting any effort in? Especially when you’re less and less attractive to her.

    But hey, let’s pop out a kid, maybe that’ll spice things up. Nope, now you have even less free time even if she DID want to touch your dick, and more bills to pay, she refuses to lose the excessive North American pregnancy weight she gained “eating for two (the 2nd being the size of a milk jug)” and you can’t MAKE her or tell her she’s anything but gorgeous or hello divorce-rape and Robin Williams ending.

    Through this WHOLE thing you’re restraining yourself from cheating, fighting a battle every day dying inside because your own wife won’t touch your weiner anymore and you’re too good a man to break vows you’ve made and you spend your life struggling and frustrated and miserable…meanwhile at 45+ she ditches you because she thinks it’s not too late to find that rich doting alpha male doctor who’s going to treat her like her fantasies.

    Anyone want to sign up for this? And espeically legally tie half your assets and the ability to see your children etc to this?

    Now in the “good ol’ days” shit wasn’t perfect but a lot of these problems were neutralized enough to make monogamy was possible. Men and women worked together in the household to balance eachother out and knew their places to make a functional household, life was significantly more difficult without for her without a good provider, society would shame her for fucking up, divorce needed an actualy reason besides “I’m unhaaaaappy this week” or “he disagreed with my opinion I’m in an emotionally abusive relationship omg!!”. People weren’t connected globally with the Internet so her selection of men was a handful of average to low value guys in her local town’s social circle so if she had a decent men there weren’t a lot of options for cheating anyway. Men had household authority to lay the law down on nagging and sure she might not be happy 100% of the time but nobody is and in the end the two of them would manage to raise decent kids in a decent household. Men may cheat on the side here and there but it wasn’t a big deal in society because boys will be boys, and it just increases his Hypergamy anyway. And technology lacked enough that there was so much work to do around that house that there wasn’t as much time to sit around stirring up drama. There was no texting and cell phones and shit so when the man of the house went off to work his wife had no idea where he was or what he was doing, and if he comes home late she worries that he’s cheating, worries that he’s dead, worries about a bunch of stuff that makes her appreciate having him when he finally shows up and if he smells of after-work drinks well hey he was probably with some important client closing a deal or out cheating with the secretary and if she stepped up her game he wouldn’t want to cheat and she NEEDS him so she better step it up.

    So monogamy made sense for a while there.

    But now? Not so much.

    Now for a couple paragraphcs I’m going to MENTION oLTRs but stick with me because I’m not actually recommending them I’m just explaining one of their dynamics that’s relevant to my next point (oLTRs are a whole topic in themselves), my main topic is actually pLTRs not oLTRs as you’ll see in a second but I just want to mention that a dynamic people who don’t understand Hypergamy don’t realize about oLTRs is that if you TELL a girl she can see other guys, if you’re doing it from abundance (ie – I hope some other guy keeps you busy so you don’t annoy me so much being around all the time) instead of scarcity (ie – I’m a chode and my wife wants to cuckold me so I’m letting her sleep around even tho it kills me inside) then the very ACT of “trying to pawn her off on other guys” MAKES you higher value than them, triggering her Hypergamous instincts just like this article Rollo wrote about post-selection. You’re essentially creating the same dynamics as dumping her, without dumping her. Because of how this works in chick-logic, she ends up not WANTING to be with other guys because women don’t want 500 new dicks a weekend, they want the top dog. That’s Hypergamy in action. Patrice O’Neal calls girls out on this all the time, listen to his shit if you haven’t.

    So the irony of YOU establishing an oLTR from a high-value abundant frame at the START of your relationship (again VS from a low-value scarcity frame later in your LTR when shit is falling apart, which is where girls run off and suck 500 dicks every weekend), is that it’s an illusionary offer because her chick-brain will end up making her say “no that’s okay I just want YOU” while you’re still in an “oLTR” so you can fuck around with other girls. So the end result is a one-sided oLTR where she’s monogamous to you and you can fuck around.

    Because even if she DOES go try and fuck around, if you’re a high-value red-pill guy with game, she’s going to go on a date or two and find out how lame other guys are compared to you and come back more appreciative because you took the mystery away from those guys. They’re no longer forbidden fruit they’re the guy in the suit who won’t shut up about some topic she doesn’t care about and who was rude to a waitress and who wasn’t smooth in his escalation and she bailed on him after they had dinner and then the next weekend threw on lingerie for you because she feels more appreciative to have you. The guy she’s forbidden to talk to is perfect to her, the guy she’s forced to talk to reveals his flaws.

    In fact now that I think about it it might be good to punish it too, like give her a mini-freeze out if she goes on a date. Like a week of no contact under the guise of “I just want you to give him a fair try incase you’ll be happier with him.” Meanwhile halfway through their date she’s lost attraction for him and then she suffers for a week with no contact from you, the guy who’s objectively higher value than that other guy because you gave no fucks about him taking her, etc. etc Hypergamy.

    Anyway, so if you do it right an oLTR becomes a one-sided oLTR naturally. This stuff all has to be established from day one of course, not 7 years into a monoLTR when shit gets rocky. You can always become MORE committed and see other girls less because that’s her winning you over, you can’t go the other way around without massive drama and loss because that’s you saying she’s not good enough.

    But a lot of guys don’t want to fuck around with oLTRs because 1) they don’t believe in their own value and they give other guys WAY too much credit so they aren’t confident that they ARE the best man for her above all other men (which comes off in their subcommunications and helps her view them as potentially not the best option too since she pings off of you for how to feel), and 2) it’s admittedly a bit of a roll of the dice esp if you haven’t been in those dynamics before and seen this shit happen and fully understand and trust it…so I don’t blame them.

    So then what’s an alternative relationship style that men in 2015, from MGTOWs to MRAs to PUAs to TRPers etc. CAN do? And can theoretically lead to raising kids as well? Well it’s the one we’re all kind of already doing naturally but with structure and rules added to it to form an actual executable coherent system:

    The way of the future as society continues down this path is what I like to call Primary LTR, or pLTR.

    It’s the Hugh Hefner system: You start by learning pickup and then you build a harem of quality casual fuckbuddies you enjoy being around. Over time one of those girls stands out above the others and you allow her to be your Primary. She gets special priveleges that the others don’t (basically she gets to be an LTR that you do all the girlfriend shit with, she can keep a toothbrush there and stay multiple nights and you treat her like a GF basically, and/or she can have extra perks like Hef trusted Holly to run the magazine when he doesn’t let ANYONE do that but him normally etc but this is all on YOUR terms and you define how involved you want to be…long-term this is the girl you would meet her family and shit with the intention of one day popping out kids with her), BUT she starts from the same level as the rest of them and knows she can be RETURNED to the same level as them if she fucks up. As time goes on and the low-quality girls weed themselves out, you end up making 2-4 other girls your Secondaries depending on your sex drive (0 other girls creates the disasterous oneitis monogamy situation, 1 other girl feels kind of like just cheating and comparing the two and you can’t see her very frequently so you have to rely on your Primary for sex etc more, but 2 other girls feels more like a good balance between variety (of sex and personalities) and helps keep you from developing oneitis for any of them or spending too much time with a Secondary etc, I think most guys would be happy with 2 solid regular Secondaries but high sex drives may want a few more). Those Secondaries get more priveleges than the casual girls (you prioritize them higher in your schedule and occasionally treat them nice maybe even take them on dates if they’ve earned it etc) but not as much as your Primary (you don’t do romantic stuff with them they don’t get a say in your life etc). The rest of the girls are casual fuckbuddies (sex ONLY) and below their level are the one-night stands etc. Because your girls all started out in a harem, which you used to game to be open and honest about and screen out any girls who caused you drama over it, they know you have other girls, and since each girl knows her place and each girl might not be at the TOP but are at least higher than “those other bitches” (the level below them in the heirarchy), they’re happy. Any girl who gives you drama (like a Secondary talking shit about your Primary or trying to fuck that relationship up or nag you to let her replace her or just drama in general about anything or lets herself get fat lazy etc) is lowered a level in the heirarchy until she earns her way back up and if she causes too much drama she gets a freezeout for a period of time and is given another chance. If she decides to play along she can start back from the bottom of the heirarchy, and if she doesn’t then she’s frozen out again. It’s entirely her decision whether to stay or go, there’s no controlling or demanding, there’s just your rules that make you happy and you have the abundance to remove girls who don’t follow them.

    The reason this works is because girls would rather share 10% of an alpha than have 100% of a beta. And in 2015 girls can afford to provide for themselves, they don’t need your money, so you don’t have to be rich to pull this off. If anything often they’ll buy shit for you because they want to win their way up higher in the heirarchy so you don’t have to be some guy providing for 5 girls like some Sister Wives shit. Every girl at every level experiences some degree of passive or active dread which keeps them appreciative, and every girl at every level is forced to bring her A-game to the table. You stay mysterious to most of them and they all know they can be replaced at any time. As Patrice O’Neal says: she knows you’re HOPING she fucks up or leaves you because you would LOVE to replace her with an orgy of hotter girls because you know your value and you have the game to do that, she knows you can’t WAIT for her to say “fine I’m leaving!!” because you’ll shout “good!!” and kick the door closed behind her laughing. You come and go as you please, making your own mission in life your top priority and any girl who gives you shit over that gets demoted or frozen out and eventually removed because your personal goals come above all else…which is ATTRACTIVE to them. Your purpose is something other than her, HER purpose is YOU. That’s what she NEEDS.

    Girls’ main worry is social judgement. So your Primary gets to call you her boyfriend and for all intents and purposes to her friends and family she is in a traditional monoLTR with you…so she doesn’t have her friends and family pressuring her and telling her she must not respect herself etc. Most girls are totally fine with this setup, even HAPPY in it (because she has constant reminders of how pre-selected you are which makes her Hypergamy happy), until their friends and family start meddling and applying social pressure on her and making her feel judged, then suddenly it’s a problem…not because she’s objectively unhappy suddenly but because her ASD kicks in and then she’s forced to give you The Ultimatum (choose me and monogamy or I can’t do this anymore) and you have to let her go.

    Your Secondaries don’t get to call you their boyfriend but they can tell people you’re dating, MAYBE. Even that I wouldn’t let them do. I’d let them say we’re “sleeping together” maybe. Either way, they don’t get to pretend to be your girlfriend because they have to understand that they are NOT your Primary and she gets special priveleges. Enforcing this makes your Primary feel like her priveleges are more special, and makes your Secondaries feel like she’s lucky to be your Primary and they respect her more (I know this sounds absurd lol but I had Secondaries voluntarily recommending wine and restaraunts that my Primary would like because they viewed her as lucky to be my Primary and I think it kicks in some kind of “if he treats his Primary well then someday I might get to be his (or another guy’s) Primary and get to be treated well!” instincts, not entirely sure off the top of my head I’d have to sit down and think about exactly what’s going on there, it blew my mind though because it’s the exact opposite of what society tells you will happen (ie – society says they’ll be catty and jealous and make drama)).

    And if you don’t WANT a girlfriend or none of them pass all of your qualifications for Primary status, you just keep them all in Secondary status until down the road as you have more and more girls pass thru your harem over the years, you find a stand-out girl who earns Primary status and you’re at a point in your life where you want to start heading toward having kids.

    All of this requires developing solid frame control and setting establishing and enforcing boundaries, which I explain how to do in YaReally-level depth here (it’s something you should be doing with all relationships male, female, familial, etc. in your life anyway so give it a read):

    http://yareallyarchive.com/2013/8/#comment-heartiste-463871

    Anyway so you ideally never move in with any of them because your live isn’t going to be enhanced by that if anything it’ll make it more difficult to accomplish your personal goals in other areas, BUT if you DO have to move in with your Primary because you want to raise a kid (who’s ideally into other women since most girls these days like to play around with girls a bit so you screen for that, so that you can have other women over and fuck them together instead of going the mongamy route out of convenience because she lives with you), you budget to afford a tiny studio apartment somewhere in the city. This is going to be your “office”. Desk, bed, kitchen, fridge, shower, you name it. It’s an actual apartment not an office. She doesn’t get the key to this place. You have everything you need for a nice long comfortable stay, and conveniently it’s a place to fuck the rest of your harem. If you work from home you can work from this office instead so there’s some mystery about what you do all day, and you can stay late just like a real office. This apartment is important because it’s where you’re able to keep your power despite living with her. When you fight, there’s no sleeping on the couch bullshit, you can just do a freezeout walking out and living in comfort elsewhere for a while until she smartens up because she knows you’re off probably fucking other girls in comfort not crashing on a buddy’s couch or in some seedy hotel. And occasionally you can just make up fake work bullshit and say you have a lot to do tonight so you’ll just crash at the office and just “be gone” giving her the gift of missing you in her bed that night so she’s reminded what life without you is like.

    This is pretty much the ideal structure for a dude under 40 (older, even), and even guys who are MGTOWs or MRAs etc instead of PUAs could do this (but studying some pickup will help you GET that harem and give you the confidence to know that you can replace any of them at any time). A lot of them are doing it but they’re not doing it very structured, they’re half-assing it and don’t know the rules for managing fuckbuddies and the logistics of some of this shit. If I ever wrote a book it would probably be about this topic because I think this is where shit is headed naturally. I have more experimentation to do, but so far all of this holds up and plays out how I’ve described it. A pLTR has dread and pre-selection BUILT INTO IT and plays off Hypergamy which we know is a reliable concept. In 2015 a monoLTR removes dread, removes pre-selection and lowers the man’s value while raising the value of EVERYONE AROUND HIM especially his girl until he’s no longer triggering her Hypergamy.

    I also put the pLTR system above mLTRs (multiple LTRs where each girl is treated like a Primary/Secondary essentially without as rigid a heirarchal structure) because I think it theoretically breeds less jealousy since each girl knows her place VS all feeling like they almost have the top place and start bringing more drama to get there (like the Joker says “nobody panics when things go “according to plan” even if that plan is horrifying”, we like having rules and heirarchies and knowing our place), and ultimately you’ll want to pick “the best one” to have kids with since most men have that goal.

    Kids is where shit gets tricky. I haven’t figured that part out yet. I have some ideas on it but it’s not something I’m concerned about yet because I don’t want kids till I’m in my late 40s (with proper diet and exercise I should be nice and healthy and able to raise kids then, plus I’ll be freezing sperm in my 30s to avoid the Hef fate (from what I’ve pieced together freezing sperm tech didn’t exist when Hef was in his prime and word has it him and Holly tried for kids but couldn’t make it happen, probably because he was shooting blanks at 80, so she had to bail on him because she’s clearly a baby rabies type esp as she hit 30)). I think Blackdragon has experimented with this, Tyler from RSD, Gene Simmons was doing just fine till he went public with his relationship dynamics and brought the social pressure and judgement of the entire world down on him lol There are other examples out there but a lot of them are hush-hush (like Will and Jada) and I actually think it would be possible to keep a lot of this structure and still have kids. But anything that makes it difficult for you to leave her reduces your “hand” in the relationship and you can avoid EVERYTHING especially legal stuff, but kids are the ultimate “NOW you’re locked in” card.

    Rollo’s been married for a million years and it seems to be going good, but what’s Rollo’s situation really? He works with sexy promo chicks and is around Vegas party venues. Passive dread game is built into his career despite monogamy. Plus he’s older and his wife wasn’t brought up with the same delusional bullshit that mid-20s girls in 2015 have been brought up with so her brain isn’t going to be wired the same as what we’re seeing out in the marketplace these days. Plus he’s an alpha boss and understands all this red pill shit and has a history as a high-value guy so you know he’s naturally staying attractive and triggering Hypergamy.

    But this is 2015. Society and culture have changed and we have to adapt to it. I see men under 30 signing up for marriage who could never wrap their head around the dynamics I’m explaining and ALL think “that won’t happen to ME, that’s just those dumb bar sluts you go for, MY girl is different” like they’re holding onto a unicorn and like my buddies and I haven’t met girls just like theirs in daygame and fucked them just like we fuck bar chicks, even when they’re married.

    I’d like to do a bigass “how to” guide on all this someday when I’m older and more experienced, really going down into the nitty gritty of it, but right now I’d say Blackdragon’s books/posts are the best source of info on this topic in general, as well as Patrice O’Neal’s relationship philosophies on YouTube. Any guy under 40 should be at least open to thinking about this. A lot of the reason guys will shut it out is because they think “I can’t even get ONE girlfriend, how am I going to get a HAREM that’s some hollywood fantasy or rich 6-pack shit” but it all comes down to game. Classic Mystery Method was designed to trigger girls falling in LOVE with you not just getting laid.

  26. I have an off topic question.. On the internet I met an 14 year old boy who lives in Canada. He told me that he wants to get married and have kids, so I felt obliged to approach him about the nature of women, marriage courts et cetera.. But I could not figure out the best way to handle this situation. What would you do if you met such a young boy on the internet?

  27. @Onder
    “If you combine this with actually going out and approaching girls or even socialising with people. You will naturally find hooking up with them becomes that much more simple – You’ll no longer have the need to want to hook up and will have a natural aloofness of an alpha without being conscious of it. ”

    The problem is that when you pitch that plan to these guys:

    They are already heavily focused on other purposes outside of women, and have been their whole lives because they don’t know how to interact with women.

    Newbies to the game NEED a couple years of hardcore pounding the pavement, esp if they’re hardcase types who really need help, because they need to learn how to socialize in general let ALONE attract women. They need to catch up on all the experience that other people were getting in high-school and college that they missed out on because they were busy being awkward nerds.

    Down the road as they reach their 30s, ya, focus on a nice balance, but if you’ve got some 24yo virgin nerd that guy needs MASS APPROACHING AND SOCIALIZING just to undo all the bad wiring he has in his head.

    You take some average semi-cool dude with a nice little social circle of buddies that go out and ya, that guy just needs a little effort here and there and he’ll probably be fine.

    But take a walk around Comicon or E3 and you’ll realize that 90% of that crowd, to have ANY hope at all of ending up with anything above a 5, needs to hyperfocus on sarging for a few years.

    So the advice is great in theory and it holds up for certain guys who already have a decent head start, but there are a LOT of men in our society who are fucking DOOMED if they don’t step up HARD lol

  28. This stuff just hits incredibly close to home for me. The fat harpy would often say “no one else would put up with your bullshit” or “others would have already left you by now” when we are fighting. Yes, I did do some stupid shit to get her pissed off but nothing anyone would reasonably describe as being worst husband ever material. In my blue pill days I just agreed and apologized like a bitch in an effort to make things better.

    Now I know my value and I’m raising it every day. The wife on the other hand is in deep shit if she ever decides to blow the marriage. I’m 31 and things can only get better for me now.

  29. @ YaReally

    Monogamy specifically removes the qualities of a man that are attractive. She no longer has any fear that she’ll lose you to another woman, you lose your social/flirting skills, you lose parts of your social circle (no more female friends, sorry, they’ll make your girl too jealous and give you too much drama with cheating accusations), being around hot women is torture since you can only window shop so going out to bars with your single buddies so you lose some friendships, and living in a high-population is less appealing since you can’t DO anything (a house in the suburbs seems more appealing when walking around a major metropolitan downtown core is temptation in every direction).

    I have a lot of female friends in my social circle. Fakk jealousy. I went to a dance lesson solo yesterday and two attractive women wanted hugs from me. I told Mrs. Gamer about it and she was cool. Cheating accusations from time to time are par for the course. Learn to live with it. Learn how to give appropriate comfort.

    No torture for me, lol. Options. More likely discomfort for the broads I tease and won’t bang, lol.

    As to high pop, I can go to the supermarket and catch lots of eye-flirts from MILFs if I want. Flirt up the female checkers. Have fun joking with male checkers. Have fun as a lifestyle. Options are only a Walmart away.

    I have quite a lot of both single and taken buddies I see out when I go out solo. I see friends on hikes, too.

    My wife is in love with me and happy about it.

    I’m married and not needy.

    I’m proof that marriage can still work. My frame has been tested every which way by Mrs. Gamer and all the broads I see. It’s just part of life and being a man.

    The idea that marriage is easy is Blue Pill. However, it can work.

    (You made a powerful argument against marriage, btw.)

  30. @theasdgamer
    “I’m proof that marriage can still work”

    Yes, you’re running the same style of marriage that Rollo is running: constant passive dread-game and preselection.

    My argument isn’t that marriage and monogamy CAN’T work, it’s that marriage and monogamy in 2015’s society VERY SEVERELY HANDICAP the chances of it working because by their very nature they eliminate a lot of attractive qualities in the average guy.

    Now a guy who’s smart and understands the red pill and goes into a marriage KNOWING “this arrangement, by it’s nature, removes a lot of power from me, so I have to pro-actively ensure that I keep my value by putting myself around other girls, keeping my social skills up, etc.” and who can resist all social pressure to go with the traditional path etc. MIGHT make marriage work.

    But 99% of guys aren’t that guy and don’t have the experience with women and holding their frame and abundance and understanding of value/hypergamy etc. to be gambling that way, not with stakes THAT high.

    I think under the right conditions traditional marriage and even monogamy CAN work…but for 99% of guys, esp ones who don’t understand red pill shit, and who read what I wrote and went “oh I guess I never thought about it that way”, they aren’t going to be pro-active enough about keeping their value to up to handle it and make it work.

    Like if I load a gun with 1 bullet or leave it empty I’ll probably get an empty chamber when I play Russian Roulette. Marriage and agreeing to monogamy for most guys in 2015 is like loading 5 rounds in the gun…you CAN still get that one empty chamber but you should be aware that you’re SEVERELY increasing the odds against you before you sit down to play lol

  31. ” . . . monogamy for most guys in 2015 is like loading 5 rounds in the gun…you CAN still get that one empty chamber . . .”

    . . . but learn what a Taurus Judge looks like first. You can never be too careful these days.

  32. @YaReally
    The concept is sound. However, my strategy is simple in that I would not make any girl my primary and make my mission or goals in life as the primary. Because like you said, any girl with certainty will no longer find you as attractive.

    So my lethal weapon is my independence that they all basically have to fight for.

    It’s working for me right now with my current ex GF who i’m getting pornstar level fucks with and having dinners cooked for me. I could easily go out and see/fuck other girls and she knows this. I’m also encouraging her to do the same by allowing her to meet up with a business owner for coffee after she shit tested me about it.

    But the key thing thats making all of this work is my independence and ambitions. I genuinely don’t need her or any girl that I bring into my life. no girl is above my mission in life.

  33. @Onder
    “But the key thing thats making all of this work is my independence and ambitions. I genuinely don’t need her or any girl that I bring into my life. no girl is above my mission in life.”

    Right, I’m assuming by default that guys know their purpose/mission/goals should come ABOVE all the girls, even their Primary. That’s like, the default start, I should’ve mentioned it.

    Like Patrice O’Neal says: “She’s 4th place in my life. Behind ME, my CAREER, my MAMA, and then there’s HER. And that’s a good place to be and she knows it. And she knows she better be careful ’cause my fish is 5th place, and I LIKE my fish a LOT.” and “A girl should LOVE you, and you only LIKE her”

    lol

  34. @YaReally
    I agree with you completely. In the beginning, you have to hit the streets hard. After a while though, you do need to dial it down. The problem with this approach is that they continue down that path without focusing on other aspects. Especially when they start to see results, which is very seductive as it makes them wonder what the point is when they’re already getting laid without it.

    For me, the mark of a man is to be complete and well adjusted. Most PUAs are 1 dimensional. It’s not a healthy path to be in.

  35. Sorry Rollo, in my reply to phantom26d I put in four links to reading resources and I should know better that three links gets it put in automatic WordPress moderation.

  36. Mostly I’m disgusted that someone is unhappy with the person they got rid of being happy. Does she make sure all her trash stays in the dump, or just the men?

    YaReally said “sarging” – man, I cannot remember the last time I came across that word! Brings me back.

    He also points out the proper order of things, and it’s worth noting that it’s the order that women demonstrate is the correct approach to them, by rewarding it consistently. All moralizing and arguments to the contrary, if you put them ahead of yourself or even just after (there is no equal; something will eventually have to give), you will be punished for it. By the one you tried to help by it. Contrast that with the common, all over FB etc. sentiments from women that their kid comes first, and you, mere provider of dollars and dicking, are at best a distant third. Misguided? Projection? No idea, but in practice it makes her miserable.

    @Seething Lurker:
    Three cheers for you. Your (overweight) wife is in for a rude awakening. It appears to me that many, if not all, post-wall women are holding onto a grossly inflated perception of their sexual market value which is grounded in their actual pre-wall sexuall market value.

    Grossly inflated. Heh. I see what you did there…

  37. @YaReally

    Kids is where shit gets tricky. I haven’t figured that part out yet.

    You’ve almost got it. As a rule I write for Christians, but the fact is you are correct that monogamy is dead under this cultural and legal system. That is not to say that marriage is dead. Biblically speaking, there is no such thing as monogamy and polygyny, there is only marriage.

    Polygyny (multiple wives) is the only stable form of marriage available today in the US. The reason is the state will not recognize it as a marriage, thus there can be no divorce. That simple. The marriage should be arranged the old-fashioned way, with a formal contract of marriage. The state would see that as a cohabitation contract, which is enforceable.

    An old Rabbi was once asked what the optimal number of wives was. He said:

    One is insufficient,
    Two and they fight,
    Three, they take sides,
    Four is just right.

    Make sure you knock all of them up, all of the breastfeed all the babies. I mean pass them around. All moms bond with all babies. One mom is the stay at home, everybody else works. That means a much higher household income than any of them could do on their own or in a monogamous marriage.

    The social dynamic puts the husband in an alpha position, he can stay aloof and the wives can meet their emotional needs with each other. Women compete, and even though he’s made a commitment, they’re still competing with each other for his attention. The only way they can do that is to compete at giving him what he wants. By being sweet, feminine and sexually available.

    The incentives in this structure reward staying in the marriage and penalize leaving. Under the “best interests of the child” rubric, if a woman wants to leave it is unlikely she will get custody of her children because of the issue of separating siblings. That, and the kids don’t want to leave their other moms, and the fact that even after she leaves there is still a stable and intact family. Without custody of the kids, she has to pay child support. So, no cash and prizes for nuking the marriage (the judge says sorry you’re not married so you can’t divorce him). High probability of losing custody of her kids and guaranteed to lose contact with all the other kids she’s bonded to. Have to pay child support. Goes from a high income home to just what she can bring home by herself. Loses her alpha husband. Incentives matter.

    I’ve pitched this to Christians and it drives them nuts. Not only is polygyny Biblically allowed and regulated, it goes further than that. What if the husband wants all his wives in bed at once? No prohibitions on that. What if he or the wives want everybody to play with everybody? No prohibitions on that either. What really drives the churchians nuts is they can’t find anything in the Bible that says that kind of thing is wrong. And, getting them all naked together is beneficial. It wrecks their attempts at creating a pecking order and because they’re always competing with each other (they can’t help it) the husband gets some really wild sex as they try to outdo each other.

    Another aspect of the competition is in terms of loyalty. The women know that calling 911 for a DV call will probably result in the other wives telling the cops she’s lying. That puts the cops in a quandary, because under the “normal” rules it’s he said / she said and they’re supposed to go with the woman’s story. In this case if they’re confronted with one woman claiming abuse and a man and at least one other woman denying it, it devolves into she said / she said and the easiest thing for them to do is walk away.

    While monogamy is (in today’s environment) a fool’s paradise because of the state involvement, marriage isn’t if a man has multiple wives. Once all the women have kids the odds of any of them deciding to nuke things is pretty small. If one of them decides to walk and the husband gets custody, he’s pretty much guaranteed to get custody if any of the others decide to walk.

    You already know how to handle the relationships, that’s the structure to use if you want children and want to actually be a father to them while they grow up with a low probability that the mom will wreck things. The structure may not create an alpha, but it certainly supports and reinforces the husband as alpha because it robs the women of their sexual power. If she says no he can walk down the hall to somebody else’s bedroom and every one of them knows it. His attention is the prize and they have to compete for it, there’s the preselection thing right there. Unlike a monogamous marriage, discipline can be enforced in a passive manner through the choice of who he interacts with.

  38. Happy wife, happy life AMIRITE??

    Fakk, no! Chasing wife, happy life. (She’s chasing me.) That’s my maxim.

    (By the way, I ate the cookies and some of the fattening foods and continued to lose weight. A nuclear pass.)

  39. @Onder
    “After a while though, you do need to dial it down”

    Ya I say focus on pickup in your early to mid 20s and focus on career lifestyle etc. in your late 20s and beyond. The skills you learn in your 20s will help keep you in abundant pussy when you’re making big career/hobby/purpose strides as you approach your SMV peak.

    Most guys do it the other way, they focus on career etc. in their 20s then they get to the end and it’s like “ok where’s all the girls I heard would suck my dick if I became a doctor??” and they realize they still have to approach and socialize and learn some pickup but it’s harder to start doing at 30 now that they don’t have a college campus etc around them.

  40. By the way, we went to a pool party recently. Several single women–one semi-whale, none trim. One married blonde who was trim and pretty but had no norks. All were looking for validation and dressed to be seen. Mrs. Gamer stayed clothed. She was the one that the men all wanted to see in a bikini. Mrs. Gamer is an over 60 broad with a good body (if she lost 15 lbs. it would be a great body) and a face that is still not bad looking.

    Mrs. Gamer makes sure that she’s still attractive.

    NB: She could stand to lose the extra 15 lbs., tho. Maybe if she caught me making out with some broad, she might work harder to lose the weight, lol. Could be a win/win situation, heh. It would be a chance for me to test my comfort game.

  41. @Rollo

    One of the reasons I advise against men and women shacking up is because the comfort and regularity of that living situation eventually becomes a disincentive for women to maintain a consistent sexual desire and urgency for the man she’s paired with.

    I still disagree with pitting this against marriage and considering marriage the better option in the age of Marriage 2.0.

    You get the same disincentives whether in a marriage or just cohabitation In marriage however your Dread Game can be called out as a bluff, particularly with how the marriage laws are 100% against you as the man these days. She can and will bail for cash and prizes if she really believes your threat and she feels she can do better. But a guy she hasn’t locked down legally who’s been smart and kept his options open? His Dread Game is no joke. She’s still competing with the rest of the SMP, and she knows it. And even if she calls his bluff, his only consequences are figuring out how to break it to her that she’s moving out. (You did keep her off the lease, right?)

    Granted, I don’t advocate any sort of commitment by a high value male these days (I haven’t committed to any of the piss poor options I’ve been presented with for the past few years), but these days marriage loses out to cohabitation if you’re going to do it. Dread Game is less believable, legal consequences are worse, and divorce porn is pretty much a female industry for a reason.

  42. Referring to the original point of this article, I can very definitely attest that it is true. In my experience, women hate, hate, HATE it when you pick yourself up from the curb against which you’ve been kicked, brush yourself off and actually manage to have a successful relationship with another woman who clearly digs you.

    Can’t say why (I’m not a woman) but it may be a number of things. Someone else valuing the man she discarded may call into question the accuracy of her own feminine intuition, and we all know that any criticism of that “man picker juju” is forbidden. Being fed a near-constant, lifelong stream of infallibility around your intuition and then having that challenged in definitive terms can really rock your mental landscape, I’m thinking.

    Or, it may be that by default, men are cast as the villain and any conflict with that assumption is profoundly unsettling to a woman. If you’ve been discarded as the shlub beta loser, it’s really a blow to her ego when some other woman doesn’t see all the awful qualities that forced her hand in dumping you. And it’s worse for her if it actually works out for you, because it REALLY questions her casting you as the bad guy in the first place.

    But in the end, I think that to Rollo’s point it’s a confirmation that her SMV value isn’t as high as she thought. And that point will get proven to her over and over again in the dating world. I remember an old quote from Mae West that goes , “A man in the house is worth two in the street,” and I think she was right.

    When you know your value, top to bottom, and can turn around and get better with a new woman; that’s the final insult. I’ve seen it happen more than once and the amount of resentment and anger it generates just cannot be believed.

  43. YaReally–about men needing social skills: I don’t have great social skills, but I have no difficulty getting female attention. Must be my IDGAS attitude that conveys high status and that people seem to want my attention as social proof. I say goodbye to people infrequently and chat people up infrequently. And I don’t try hard to carry on a convo. I break rapport frequently–I’m almost always the first to move on. And I don’t chat about my obsessions much. IDGAS about culture or what young women follow. I don’t chat them up about that 5h1t. We talk about what I want if they want to engage me. I move on quickly if I’m bored.

    Broads send me FB requests–I don’t usually send them FB requests.

    I don’t text much. If I do, it’s for a meetup.

    I don’t argue that having more social skills wouldn’t help–I’ll grant you that point. However, not having negative social skills is probably adequate to get female attention if you have subcomms and will isolate and instigate. I never used humor, negs, or qualification in my first lay. They are helpful, but not essential.

  44. FWIW, I don’t ‘run’ passive dread Game on Mrs. T.

    My natural response to unsolicited, third-party, soft dread is to subtly recognize it and casually emphasize it. It fits nicely as a part of Amused Mastery.

    Example (true story):

    “OMG I can’t believe M!”

    “What happened?”

    “He cheated on D with some woman he met online. How could he? He was a church elder and in charge of the youth group. They have 4 kids, etc. etc.…”

    “How’d that happen?”

    “They were flirting online for a while and then when he was in Vegas for this last convention they met up.”

    “Well, Vegas seems to be the place for it I guess.”

    Long story short, I expect I’ll be getting some pretty intense sex prior to my leaving for Vegas in September (for my work event).

  45. @Artisanal Toad
    “As a rule I write for Christians”

    I’m open to any insights from any source. There are small hints of this all working, in various forms, in various points in history, but to actually look at it all and figure out the commonalities and formulate it into a consistent step by step plan is an ideal goal to me, whatever that final form looks like.

    Religion is one of the “social shaming” aspects of why monogamy used to work, I’m not religious myself but I can fully acknowledge that having the fear of going to Hell for doing shit is a huge incentive to not do that shit lol I think people don’t really view marriage as any kind of sacred religious thing these days (outside of heavily religious types), it’s more like a checkmark box like “got a car, got a dog, got married” etc. and just like they’ll junk the car when it doesn’t work right anymore they’ll toss out a marriage no fucks given these days…and the guy is the one who ends up paying out his nose and being denied visitation with his kids and ending up pulling a Robin Williams.

    “Polygyny (multiple wives) is the only stable form of marriage available today in the US.”

    I think my main issue with what I’ve seen of Polygyny is that once you sign any kind of a contract where the girl knows “it will be difficult for him to leave me”, she has no incentive to stay hot anymore. That Sister Wives guy on TV has hideous wives lol but why wouldn’t he, he can’t LEAVE any of them, esp having houses etc with them?

    With a pLTR the girls know you can bail at any time with zero consequence (until you have actual kids and then you have some lock-in, but until that point there’s nothing not even cohabitation laws that can get you), so they have incentive to not slack off.

    But our perspective is probably different because I’m guessing for you having kids outside of marriage is a no-no whereas for me it would be optimal. I think a mother/father dynamic is important to raise a healthy kid but I also think a depressed father and a mother who has no attraction for said father is a pretty bleak household too.

    “One mom is the stay at home”

    How is this determined? I guess if you have like 5 kids there’s enough shit to do raising them that the other wives wouldn’t view her as getting “the easy job” lol VS if there was only one kid or no kids where it’s like “bitch get out there and earn us some money like we have to!” lol

    “he can stay aloof and the wives can meet their emotional needs with each other.”

    I DO like this dynamic, and I would say that it’s also possible in a pLTR. The ideal Primary would be screened for a bit of bi-curiousity so that ideally you and her can fuck other girls together, possibly even making one of your Secondary’s your guys’ “girlfriend” etc But aside from the Primary, all the girls in the harem should know that fighting with eachother is grounds for expulsion whereas if they play nice then they have some new high-quality BFFs to do girl-talk with while the man gets to go off and do his thing like you’re describing.

    So I’d say this dynamic definitely holds up, and would hold up in a proper pLTR too. Mystery Tyler and the other guys experimented with this a bit too, where they’d purposely invite multiple girls out on Day2’s or invite multiple girls over just to see what would happen and they found the same thing where often the girls would get along well and babysit eachother.

    “Women compete, and even though he’s made a commitment, they’re still competing with each other for his attention. The only way they can do that is to compete at giving him what he wants. By being sweet, feminine and sexually available.”

    As someone who knows about this shit, what do you think went wrong with the guy on that Sister Wives show? Presumably they were off in fat-city before the show. They DO seem to be relatively friendly from the episodes of it I’ve seen (I’m not hardcore into it I just knew a chick who loved the show) but like, there’s something to be said about having 5 ugly wives instead of 5 hot fuckbuddies lol Like what do you think he could have done differently to prevent that? Because he seems to have followed what you’re describing, but he still ended up with 5 behemoths that I don’t think anyone would want all in a bed at once, I don’t think there’s a bed that could support that much weight lol

    “The incentives in this structure reward staying in the marriage and penalize leaving. Under the “best interests of the child” rubric, if a woman wants to leave it is unlikely she will get custody of her children because of the issue of separating siblings. That, and the kids don’t want to leave their other moms, and the fact that even after she leaves there is still a stable and intact family. Without custody of the kids, she has to pay child support. So, no cash and prizes for nuking the marriage (the judge says sorry you’re not married so you can’t divorce him). High probability of losing custody of her kids and guaranteed to lose contact with all the other kids she’s bonded to. Have to pay child support. Goes from a high income home to just what she can bring home by herself. Loses her alpha husband. Incentives matter.”

    This was so interesting I had to cut and paste the whole paragraph. That’s a really fascinating solution to a lot of the problems. It’s like mutually assured destruction…if the law is insane for one person, just multiply it by enough people that it becomes insane for EVERYONE lol

    Definitely food for thought there, with regards to red pill understandings of this stuff. I’ll have to think on this one. Like I say I’m not against marriage/monogamy but in their traditional form in 2015 they are SEVERE handicaps. Solutions like this circumvent that.

    I think my big argument against it from what you’re saying would primarily be time investment. With a pLTR situation you are free to come and go as you like and just focus on yourself MGTOW style, and girls are welcome to join or leave whenever they decide they don’t like your rules. Whereas with the polygyny setup you’re all locked in literally till death do you part, so it’s a HUGE undertaking and you’d have to SERIOUSLY screen the girls to make sure you won’t regret having them in your dynamic (like any reality show where they put 5 girls in a house together and there’s INEVITABLY one girl who’s a bitch and it’s all drama for the whole group from there, except if she was a sister wife who snuck under the radar with her crazy, you’d all be stuck with her forever…although there’s 5 of you to hide the body lol)

    But then we’re talking about settling down and raising kids, so I admit I’m still viewing it from a single guy who doesn’t want kids yet perspective. I don’t have “kids in a pLTR situ” figured out yet so this is definitely food for thought. I don’t think a lot of guys would logically want to go from no marriage and responsibility to 5 marriages and 5 kids and 10x the responsibility VS being single (it would be like going from playing Mario to playing Starcraft having to suddenly micromanage an army), so I’d still like to figure out something that would be feasable for the average guy who wants to ultimately have just one mom one dad and 1 or 2 kids in a stable home. Something like that might simply be keeping Secondaries on the side or having agreements (and screening for if she’s cool with it) where if you’re out of town on business you can play around but in your city you be monogamous etc. The main thing is keeping that dread/preselection in the back of her mind even if you don’t act on it often.

    “And, getting them all naked together is beneficial. It wrecks their attempts at creating a pecking order and because they’re always competing with each other (they can’t help it) the husband gets some really wild sex as they try to outdo each other.”

    Right, again this is something I can see applying to a pLTR situation. Having nights where all the girls are invited over together or out for drinks etc. IDEALLY it would be great if they all became friends but realistically I think keeping them separated would be easier for most average guys until they developed enough frame control to manage having multiple girls with them at once, but something to work towards and probably something I’ll be playing with in the next few years because I’m curious about the dynamics of making that work. Like I know stuff about having the more extroverted girl set the tone leading by example and that loosens the other girls up to follow her lead etc. which is stuff I’ll be trying more. But just getting them in the same room together and getting past that awkward first bit where they realize what’s going on will be new (fun!) territory for me lol

    “The women know that calling 911 for a DV call will probably result in the other wives telling the cops she’s lying.”

    Another interesting point. Is it more work/effort than placing a bunch of surveilance cameras around the house? I don’t know lol but the logic of what you’re saying makes sense. One of my big worries about having kids these days, with the insanely cavalier attitude girls have toward false accusations here in 2015, is at ANY point when your wife has a bad day she can end your life basically, career, freedom, etc. with a lie. And if she’s willing to do that, she’s the one teaching your kids, along with mainstream media, so next thing you know you’ve got your own kid who has NO IDEA what the consequences are, telling a teacher at school you did something to him/her because you took away their iPhone. Like, that shit is scary. I can’t guarantee multiple people in my household will never be pissed off at me in like 50 years lol

    “Unlike a monogamous marriage, discipline can be enforced in a passive manner through the choice of who he interacts with.”

    Ya I agree with a lot of what you said, thanks for taking the time to share. Very interesting stuff. A bit of a super-nuke solution to killing a fly but still a lot of good points to think about lol

  46. Sun, if a man is high value (he has options/abundance mentality/is non-needy), then the woman will seriously weigh whether she wants to lose access to him. (She may need to recalc his SMV for its current value.)

    A while back, Mrs. Gamer moved out of the house. She later returned to chat. I told Mrs. Gamer that I wanted a divorce (even though I had no income). I really wanted a divorce at that point. My subcomms verified my statement. It was a massive DHV per this post. Mrs. Gamer started chasing me hard. Invited me on a date and moved back in. That’s chasing hard for Mrs. Gamer, lol.

    Dread is the plan and Mrs. Gamer understands this. No panicking even though Mrs. Gamer’s hand is weak.

  47. @Rollo
    “FWIW, I don’t ‘run’ passive dread Game on Mrs. T.”

    “My natural response to unsolicited, third-party, soft dread is to subtly recognize it and casually emphasize it. It fits nicely as a part of Amused Mastery.”

    Lol you can call it “eating a sandwich while doing a backflip” if you want but this is running passive game whether you do it naturally or subconsciously just like a natural touching a girl is still “kino’ing a girl”.

    What I mean primarily is that you’ve chosen a career/lifestyle where you don’t have to actively dread-game her, your career/lifestyle does that FOR you. I suspect that if you had no red pill knowledge and you worked in, say, accounting at some small office full of sausage and you let yourself get 300lbs and you live in Scranton Pennsylvania, you would have a much harder time having the same successful long-term marriage and pre-work-trip sex lol

    So you are constantly “running” dread-game. Or she is constantly “experiencing” dread-game, or however you want to word it: the point is you are avoiding the traps of traditional monogamy/marriage that most men fall into because you made smart life decisions.

  48. “There’s a reason why the Sultans of Turkey kept harems, because it works.”

    the conditions are much different these days though. this is not your chinese emperor’s harem. the women are not locked up. there are no eunuchs guarding them. there is no death penalty for those men who would sneak in and grab a quick bang.

    a true harem is where a man has EXCLUSIVE access to multiple women. this term is thrown around casually and incorrectly.

    when puas say “harem” what they really mean is multiple fuckbuddies aka plate theory. this is great for reducing beta thirst but by no means is it the definition of alpha as these women are always fucking other men too.

    alpha means securing the exclusivity of her sex. the emperors and sultans of old knew the truth about women and therefore had to imprison them to keep them exclusive.

    sharing pussy is beta. the despots of old knew this and that’s why they made a big show of their harems. no one under their rule could come close to the amount of exclusive pussy access the emperor or sultan had and therefore could not claim to be a superior man.

    most men cheat with women less attractive than their significant others. this is a mistake. it is lazy and self defeating and ultimately lessens dread.

    if you are going to get married, only marry the hottest woman you can who worships you. this does two things.

    one, it gives you the upper hand. the man should always be the one saying, “I’m the only one who would tolerate you”. this is the only frame in which marriage will be good for the man.

    two, it ups your game. when you are defiling a HB8 every day and stick to the rule of no other pussy below the hotness of your wife, you end up chasing only younger, hotter and tighter. this leads to more dread, which leads to better performance from your wife, which leads to higher and higher standards for your flings, which leads to better game, which leads to more hot sex from your wife… and on and on in a upward spiraling circle of positive feedback.

    cheating is good for your relationship only if your flings are younger and hotter. if you’re just sticking your dick in anyone who will have you, your wife will see this as beta thirst and will be furious. she will only accept another woman or two in the picture if they are of excellent quality and also exclusive to you.

    if you have sufficient frame, the idea of training a young one together and keeping her as a kind of pet becomes not only possible, but desirable. this is the ultimate sexual situation and only the most alpha of men can even approach the idea of a true harem.

    banging multiple women is great but don’t get confused and think you’ve got a harem when you don’t.

  49. @Yareally
    “Most guys do it the other way, they focus on career etc. in their 20s then they get to the end and it’s like “ok where’s all the girls I heard would suck my dick if I became a doctor??” and they realize they still have to approach and socialize and learn some pickup but it’s harder to start doing at 30 now that they don’t have a college campus etc around them.”

    That’s familiar and something I’ve found quiet interesting to say the least. But spot on. I think based of social feedback that I haven’t practiced enough even in a red pill aware state.

  50. @Artisanal Toad, polygyny drives Christians nuts because the context of a “Christian” marriage has been redefined by the conventions of bastardized chivalry, courtly love and the post-agrarian “a-wife-for-every-beta” social contract.

    The FI utilizes this to its own purpose now by linking it to men’s presupposed duty to ‘Honor’ and how that defines manhood in one-sided ways that are convenient to the ends of the imperative.

  51. @Mikephill
    “In my experience, women hate, hate, HATE it when you pick yourself up from the curb against which you’ve been kicked, brush yourself off and actually manage to have a successful relationship with another woman who clearly digs you.”

    That’s so true I see that in a lot of social situations that mostly at this point in my life take place in family homes. Odd yet growing up many of my buddy’s moms would demonstrate this openly.

    @Rollo
    That article is still relevant to me. No matter how much your work improves key elements of my life it doesn’t change how hard my last girl I found hurts. I try not to let and to some extent it dostnt work. Yet I still have profound memory’s of how she may have been BPD chick.

  52. @ YaReally

    So that’s monogamy.

    “So that’s monogamy as Blue Pill betas understand it.” Fixed.

    No reason we can’t teach betas about the importance of having options/abundance mentality/being non-needy. Even in my social circle, men are becoming aware of the Red Pill. Betas can learn and increase their value. Men used to understand this stuff before when one generation would pass this to the next. The breakup of the family has thrown a cog in the generational male info-passing. NFD has been a major benefit to the FI in so many ways. Back when I was a boy in the 60s, I was the only kid in my class of 25 who had divorced parents.

    NB: Momma Gamer was a traitor to the FI when she told me to play the field. Granny Gamer likewise counseled against Oneitis.

  53. @YaReally, that’s why I don’t call it “running” dread Game. It’s a constant, ambient, subroutine running in the background for me.

    And you’re right, it’s the result of the life choices and style I’ve cultivated for the past 25 years or so. In a way I’ve positioned myself, career-wise, creatively, personally, where I can only maintain it by becoming and sustaining an internalized Alpha mental point of origin.

    It’s now at the point where I don’t even consciously consider it, thus it’s a passive subroutine for me.

  54. Re Mrs. Gamer having a weak hand

    Mrs. Gamer has a grand old time despite having a weak hand. She wins by keeping me. Mrs. Gamer gets my attention. She really enjoys sex. Mrs. Gamer sees me as high value. So don’t feel sorry for her. My comfort game keeps her discomfort to a minimum even when I go out solo.

  55. @Rollo
    “because the context of a “Christian” marriage has been redefined by the conventions of bastardized chivalry, courtly love and the post-agrarian “a-wife-for-every-beta” social contract.

    The FI utilizes this to its own purpose now by linking it to men’s presupposed duty to ‘Honor’ and how that defines manhood in one-sided ways that are convenient to the ends of the imperative.”

    http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/things-are-changing-in-the-polygamist-towns-of-hil/37137/o-6Rh8sHdkOfgl1vUA7U5A

    Went here to see those words and @Yareally statement first hand. When
    Inside a household of an undisputed alpha a man with 16 wives against from 17 to 43 I was in a blue pill mindset but awestruck of how the guy made it work.

  56. @theasdgamer
    “She was the one that the men all wanted to see in a bikini. Mrs. Gamer is an over 60 broad with a good body (if she lost 15 lbs. it would be a great body) and a face that is still not bad looking.”

    “However, not having negative social skills is probably adequate to get female attention if you have subcomms and will isolate and instigate”

    Well ya, if you’re subcomming high value and isolating and instigating and escalating you can do fine. You can pick up a girl without saying a word if you have that shit down. But most guys don’t have good subcomms or give themselves permission to do any of that other shit lol So they need mass socializing experience till they’re comfortable enough to do that shit.

    Like you’re basically saying “just sitting in a car is probably adequate to get to your destination if you’re pressing on the gas pedal and steering the wheel and looking out the window.”

    @Sun Wukong
    “You get the same disincentives whether in a marriage or just cohabitation”

    Right, the underlying principles is “are you further “locked-in” or not?”. Marriage is a MASSIVE lock-in, a kid is the ULTIMATE lock-in, cohabitation is a PRETTY BIG lock-in (it would be inconvenient for you to breakup VS if you had your own place and simply stopped inviting her over).

    “In marriage however your Dread Game can be called out as a bluff, particularly with how the marriage laws are 100% against you as the man these days.”

    Right this is the main thing. She’s INCENTIVIZED by all of society to divorce you. In fact I’m surprised girls aren’t lining up to marry a beta at 21, divorce him at 25 when they can cash in, and find an alpha, or do that more than once. I’d do it if the laws were in my favor for it lol Never have to work a day in my life!

    “She can and will bail for cash and prizes if she really believes your threat and she feels she can do better.”

    And she thinks she CAN do better because her brain is being programmed from childhood that she’s gorgeous no matter what and no matter how great a guy she’s with she can get the super alpha 6-pack Christian Grey doctor provider combo mythical superman who will be madly in love and monogamous to her because ALL OF SOCIETY is programming this into her her ENTIRE LIFE.

    Until she hits the wall and finds out it’s not true and then is a mess. Even then, if she hits the wall while in a monogamous marriage, she’s not going to find out that the doctors etc want her at BEST for a pump ‘n dump, because she’s not allowed to talk to them or date them or anything and they aren’t going to volunteer that information. It’s only once she gets so curious and delusional that she bails on a solid marriage, that she finds out those alphas MIGHT fuck her if she hasn’t let herself go but they can also fuck hot 23yo’s so why would they settle with her old sagging ass and deteriorating eggs and life-baggage?

    “But a guy she hasn’t locked down legally who’s been smart and kept his options open? His Dread Game is no joke. She’s still competing with the rest of the SMP, and she knows it.”

    Exactly.

    “And even if she calls his bluff, his only consequences are figuring out how to break it to her that she’s moving out. (You did keep her off the lease, right?)”

    lol exactly. Like Patrice says “you wanna cheat on me, that’s fine, you can come back but you’ll be demoted. No more key to my place no more say in my life, you go back to being one of of those other bitches to me and you don’t wanna be there. But if I fuck around on you, what are you gonna do?? Walk out and give me MORE FREE TIME to fuck other hotter girls?? OH NO!!!!” lol

    “Granted, I don’t advocate any sort of commitment by a high value male these days”

    I don’t either, especially no one under 30 BUT:

    1) The reality is some guys have the goal of kids and a family and such. Those goals are trickier now so I’d like to find solutions that would work for them using red pill knowledge and game to increase their odds but like, I don’t think everyone is going to just give up on the idea of having kids in a stable mother/father household and I don’t think it would be good for society if we DID all give that up.

    and 2) Every guy has to go through a breakup or two before he fully understands oneitis and Hypergamy and how a girl can 180 on you and Alpha Widows and all that shit that’s important to understand and learn when you’re young and the consequences are low, like he has to learn first-hand that the girls he thinks are unicorns are NOT unicorns and there’s no such thing so he lets go of that dream…especially if he DOES want kids someday.

    Most guys have their marriage/monoLTR fail and they blame the GIRL. They say SHE wasn’t the unicorn I thought she was, but if I find the RIGHT GIRL (like everyone tells him after the breakup that’s what he needs to look for) THEN it’ll work and I’ll have the Disney ending! 3 divorces later they’re STILL getting engaged to a 4th girl thinking “this’ll be the one that works out, THIS girl is different!!”

    At no point do they stop to consider that the very STRUCTURE of marriage/monoLTRs is what’s broken and is inherently self-destructing in 2015 (again in the past society was such that it worked but this is 2015).

    @Excalibur
    “@Rollo: Does your wife and your daughter know about your blog and books, and do they read them?

    And how fucking TERRIFYING is THIS video as a father who understands red pill shit? (the last one where they wear masks is the best, that’s how I would want to handle it but holy shit this even being possible is scary and makes me not want to try to raise a kid…there are TONS of underage chicks online who flirt with older guys like this):

    Would love some kind of parenting book/articles down the road someday, as a red pill guy who’s pulled off marriage and raising a (presumably sane) daughter…like how the fuck do we raise a daughter in this insane culture that’s trying to get her to destroy herself from all angles thanks to technology/media?

  57. @Rollo
    “@YaReally, that’s why I don’t call it “running” dread Game. It’s a constant, ambient, subroutine running in the background for me.”

    lol ya, just a definition difference is all. You’re like a guy who spun a top and he’s able to sit back and let it spin by its own accord, VS a guy who’s constantly rotating the top manually…but you still had to, at some point, set that top in motion.

    “And you’re right, it’s the result of the life choices and style I’ve cultivated for the past 25 years or so. In a way I’ve positioned myself, career-wise, creatively, personally, where I can only maintain it by becoming and sustaining an internalized Alpha mental point of origin.”

    This is the ULTIMATE setup. Like, this is the ideal and what I’m working towards. You’re essentially forced to stay maintain your high-value. If I could just magically put every guy on a specific track it would be the track that leads them to this sort of setup where everything is linked together and feeds into itself to keep the top spinning.

    Unfortunately Bob the accountant in Wisconson who takes the job pushing paper in a dreary office because it pays slightly more than the bartending job and more money will make his future wife happier, is more common.

    In the future 10, 20+ years from now it would be amazing to see young boys hitting their teens and being fed this information and building lifestyles from the start with this end goal in mind. And we’ll get there once Roosh makes his CNN appearance! …lol In all seriousness though, I think we’re progressing just fine at the pace we are. The difference in comment sections on videos/articles now compared to 10 years ago is astronomical, in terms of mass red pill thinking. It brings a smile to my face and a tear to my eye to see so many men waking up to the problems around them.

    But now we need to feed them step by step solutions that also gel with their ultimate Disney goal of a doting hot wife who fucks them, 2.5 kids, and a white pickett fence. Figure out how to give them the best odds possible to achieve that. Because pickup is great but a lot of guys will reject it because they want a wife and kids not “banging random bar sluts” so it’s like, PUA will get passed over by them since it doesn’t relate to their value system and goals. Same with MRA it’s all just bitter angry guys and Bob with his unicorn girlfriend thinks they all just picked the wrong girl they should’ve gotten a special girl like he found boy did he luck out!!

    So down the road I’d like there to be some kind of middle ground where it’s like “look, you can GET married and have kids, but if you DO these are the risks and here’s a step by step guide to how to neutralize or minimize a lot of them and some things you can do to help prevent them from occurring” where it isn’t outright rejected by guys who don’t study TRP/PUA/MRA/etc hardcore.

    “It’s now at the point where I don’t even consciously consider it, thus it’s a passive subroutine for me.”

    Right, this is the ideal. And a lot of stuff I do now is the same for me, just because I’ve done it for so long…but I’m still always aware of it and can break down the dynamics of it all. To me you were veering into territory where Naturals go where they say “just be yourself man” and they gloss over all the little dynamics they’re actually running that are 100% by the books pickup but they don’t think they’re running game because they’re doing it passively/subconsciously/lifestylely(?? lol)

  58. As a general rule, Christians have no idea what Christian values are and simply ascribe whatever values they happen to hold to Christianity.

  59. @kfg
    “Christian values are and simply ascribe whatever values they happen to hold to Christianity.”
    That In a blue pill mindset can lead to nowhere good in the long term.

  60. I will say, this post-selection dynamic, paired with creating an Alpha Widow, creates a unique form of monster in women.

    I went through it. Divorced very hot wife who was a relentless shit-tester.

    Many interesting events have ensued.

  61. So they need mass socializing experience till they’re comfortable enough to do that shit

    I got the same message to be submissive and had to fight it just like all the betas. I hit puberty at 14, kissed two girls the same year, then started dropping panties of girls I met the same night when I was 15. Didn’t actually get laid until about the time I turned 19. Wasn’t emotionally ready for it and was restrained by messages from my mother and church. Didn’t want to buy condoms over the counter–autistic inhibitions against doing that which are now gone.

    Anyway, I got a running start I guess and never needed to worry about honing my social skills. Now I can see benefits if I had done that. Maybe broads would now be tearing off my clothes in my social circle or blowing up my cell, Idk. Having better social skills would likely enable me to amp up my sales skills and my prospective book sales. I’ve always been fairly decent at sales despite not having master-level social skills.

    Your point about developing solid social skills is important; developing solid social skills will accrue lots of benefits.

    NB: Thinking about this caused me think about something that happened to me last night. I was at a salsa lesson with lots of 30-somethings. The dance instructor asked for a man to demo a certain move. I’m a relative beginner at salsa, but I volunteered. Anyway, I led an inside turn instead of an outside turn. The instructor wanted an outside turn. So I did it again and led an outside turn correctly. As I returned to my place, all the men cheered and held out their palms for me to slap.

    Social proof. It didn’t even hit me at the time. Risk taking, failure, then success after overcoming failure. Social proof. IDGAS about failure. I can overcome and succeed. That was my message.

    There was an impact with women from the men’s social proof. Later, when I was saying goodbye to one woman, another who had been 5h1t testing me and whom I had been ignoring wanted a warm hug as well. She actually was warmer than the other who has always been affectionate to me. She wanted social proof from me.

    Social proof can come by different routes besides convo skills.

  62. “But now we need to feed them step by step solutions that also gel with their ultimate Disney goal of a doting hot wife who fucks them, 2.5 kids, and a white pickett fence.”

    it’s not a diznee goal. that’s a pejorative label that trivializes the deep-seated desires that men across the world have had for thousands of years.

    the idea of a man having a piece of land with allodial title, a devoted wife he has the hots for and strong healthy kids to survive after him is much older than a stupid media company. for many guys it is hardwired. of course we all want variety on the side but that doesn’t change the appeal of the homestead for many, and probably the majority of guys.

    “So down the road I’d like there to be some kind of middle ground”

    the middle ground is already here. at first it was only bangs that mattered. but that proved ultimately unsatisfying for lots of guys, even the very successful ones. now we have roissy and rollo both talking about relationships. they may preach plates but roissy frequently talks about love and rollo is married.

    it’s foolish to deny our romantic tendencies. they’re a part of what makes us men. but it’s also foolish to enter into a legal union with a woman without a full understanding of her nature. red pill provides that information for a man to do with as he pleases. I would call that middle ground.

    the buddha lived as both a hedonistic prince and an ascetic. what he found was that the middle way was best. as men we are currently in the process of finding that middle way. it’s incredible to witness.

  63. “Bear in mind this post-selection dynamic is only effective insofar as a man’s SMV can be actualized outside of his previous relationship.”

    Sure, get rid of the dad jeans, hit the gym, be interesting and multi-faceted, keep yourself agile and never boring. At 48 I look younger, carry no tire, wear nice clothes and have an emerging new start-up that’s poised to do well in the protected (read: fiat) GovCon marketplace. Hopefully this year I get to Canada to finally do some heli-skiing. And, after I dumped the BMW motorcycle in an accident in May (nor 100% recovered), I’ll buy a 15′ Ducati Multistrada once things settle down. Don’t be boring and predictable. I’ve made many, many mistakes in blue pill thinking, an artifact of culture and fem conditioning writ large, but I’m still driving the ice pick into the wall accenting upwards and plan on finding (if possible) the low millage 30 something with great quals because I can. No so much for the post-wall + my age. Rollo’s SMV graph says it all.

  64. “This is an interesting article that pretty much dissolves the ‘concerns’ of Lizshitz in the article Dalrock quoted”

    Hey now, how did you find out my last name?
    I’ll bet next you’ll reveal that my middle name is nutsandcorn!

  65. @theasdgamer
    “I was at a salsa lesson with lots of 30-somethings. The dance instructor asked for a man to demo a certain move. I’m a relative beginner at salsa, but I volunteered. Anyway, I led an inside turn instead of an outside turn. The instructor wanted an outside turn. So I did it again and led an outside turn correctly. As I returned to my place, all the men cheered and held out their palms for me to slap.”

    That happened with zouk for me.
    I do mostly blues but that feeling is so amazing to behold. It’s as if you score for your home-team at a sports game and everyone is happy to witness it.

  66. @Opus

    “No doubt about it, women hate being dumped; not because they are inconsolable – they will get over it in a few months at most, usually less – but because the man has succeeded by his action in revealing that they are not as desirable as they think they are and that he not her was in control of the relationship.”

    Hence the old saying, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

  67. YaReally
    August 12th, 2015 at 9:32 am

    oLTR? pLTR? What the heck does that mean? If you are going to invent words – some hint as to meaning would be helpful.

  68. @Johnycomelately

    “Demographic-opportunity theory:
    Women’s likelihood of having multiple partners and of engaging in extramarital sex will be higher in communities containing relative large numbers of men.
    …A numerical surplus of men hastens the transition to first marriage for women and increases the probability that women engage in premarital, multiple-partner, and extramarital sexual relationships. “

    This explains why the issues of divorce and infidelity are exacerbated in a place like the U.S. There is a large surplus of men relative to women in the 40s and under crowd in pretty much every major city. Plus, pretty much everyone has access to things like the internet, smartphones, and personal transportation which allow women easy access to sex. Due to demographics, there are always going to be a sizable number of men doing without and jumping at any opportunity with a woman who signals availability.

    Monogamy under those conditions seems unreasonable to me. It’s an uphill battle that the male players are almost certainly going to lose.

  69. @ Rollo

    You always do such a great job of summarizing the Fool’s Game. Teach boys to be moral and just in a society where opportunism and social maneuvering are the currency. I love this article because it highlights the indignation of the female psyche when the male flips the script.

  70. The wife getting promotions was the problem. She projected her own desire for a hi status man onto men’s (non-existent) desire for a hi status woman. I believe it’s called hubris.

  71. “Men may never truly get over a relationship:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/men-may-never-truly-get-over-a-relationship-breakup-says-study-10450413.html

    If it would be just the reasons given in that text, the cure seems clear from a RP perspective. But I think there is more. I think Oneitis may even lead to (almost?) permanent changes to the brain or the hormonal balance. And while recovering to higher levels of T or jumping on the next may help somewhat, I think it isn’t enough to cure the illness to the core. I think one remains more vulnerable to Oneitis after getting it once.
    But I also think with enough work on your inner cleanness it’s possible to get back to the good, hardened state. And of course if you once understood the dangers and learned the signs, it gets easier to avoid it next time.

  72. @Rollo
    Another spot-on blog post!

    I’ve experienced ‘post selection’ with both my ex’s. The 1st wrote a long ‘I fucked up’ letter to me, several years after our divorce, which screamed Alpha Widow, as the scenario Rollo describes in the post. In the 15 years since our split, she hasn’t remarried, let alone have a significant LTR. The 2nd made a point of mentioning to me how harsh the dating scene has become and her abject failure in navigating it, during a meeting to workout further financial untangling (as many know, this can take years).

    Neither one had any clue that they would be on the losing end of relationship game. Predictably, it’s more “Woe is me” than “I regret blowing shit up between us”. It’s absolutely fascinating observing this comedy/tragedy show (munching on my popcorn) with red-pill awareness.

    Meanwhile, my life is fricking awesome. I’m in the best health of my life (@ 55yo), I’m LTR-gaming a beautiful woman who tells me her body is my playground, recently received accolades and a promotion at my ‘passion’ (i.e. job, for you miserable schlubs) … ALL courtesy of the red-pill!

    As Rollo said in TRM:PM (paraphrasing), any energy put into revenge is better spent in improving yourself. The dividends are incalculable!

  73. @Vitriol

    “This explains why the issues of divorce and infidelity are exacerbated in a place like the U.S. There is a large surplus of men relative to women in the 40s and under crowd in pretty much every major city. Plus, pretty much everyone has access to things like the internet, smartphones, and personal transportation which allow women easy access to sex. Due to demographics, there are always going to be a sizable number of men doing without and jumping at any opportunity with a woman who signals availability.”

    I really wonder how much further these trends will go as new technologies are created over the next 30 to 50 years.

  74. Women being much worse off after divorce are one reason I don’t believe hypergamy is as simple as it sometimes seems in the manosphere. After all women often aren’t very clever with it. And game >>> more status, looks, “better man”. Only if you define “better man” as “has game”, the equation really works, but what is it good for then?

  75. @Vitriol

    ” This explains why the issues of divorce and infidelity are exacerbated in a place like the U.S. There is a large surplus of men relative to women in the 40s and under crowd in pretty much every major city. Plus, pretty much everyone has access to things like the internet, smartphones, and personal transportation which allow women easy access to sex. Due to demographics, there are always going to be a sizable number of men doing without and jumping at any opportunity with a woman who signals availability.”

    I don’t think there is a large surplus of men in major cities. I live in a city of about 200,000 folks, and women outnumber men ( by my own observations ) by around 5 to 1. Across the river from me lies New York City, Manhattan to be precise, a city of 8 million souls give or take, and females still greatly outnumber men.

    Women have always had easy access to sex. Especially in today’s climate. Technology is being used to exacerbate this.

    True, there is always going to be a sizable number of men doing without ( sex or companionship ) and jumping at any opportunity with a woman who signals availability, but this is not mostly due to any other factor than many men not knowing the nature of women, and thus not knowing how to get what they desire.

    I often joke about my city, saying that if you can’t get laid here you have died and no one bothered to throw dirt on you yet.

    If anything I’ve noticed that many men are just invisible. Just going about their business with their heads down. So to paraphrase the Marines, the guys who get laid most easily are ” The few, The loud, The SEEN “.

    Sadly, many, many guys will suffer due to being unable, unwilling or not knowing how to get out of their own way and break the programming that binds them. It’s heartbreaking, but so is psoriasis.

    TRP – love that shit.

    Divorce and infidelity are amplified in the U.S. because of our subservient obedience to the Feminine Bullshit Imperative. That is driven by Media in all it’s forms, smartphones – tablets – and oldschool Pc’s, personal transportation, etc. etc. etc….. Not to come off as unpatriotic or anything, but this country is pretty fucked. This half assed matriarchy that is all the rage is going to be the icing on the cake of our undoing. Our flag will soon have a Hamster replacing the stars and stripes.

    In summary, a higher number of men does not correlate with women’s ability to have multiple sex partners in ” practice “. What is far more likely is that a smaller number of men will have many more sex partners – the few fuck the many. That’s what it looks like on the battlefield. A large and growing number of men will sit on the sidelines trying to figure out how to get in on the action. This is the reality in 2015, even though it was not always like this.

  76. “Learn to be alone.”

    That’s not enough. At least understand you were always and will always be alone anyway.

  77. So many men accepting low quality women just because of the fear of being allone/lonely. When a man can handle to be allone, he really can operate from a distinctly higher level.

    @ Ya Really: i really like your posts. And i fully agree to the fact, that today it’s better not to marry and to do it the way you have instructively described.
    Nowadays a man doesnt have to marry to have kids. It’s absolutely possible to have kids without marriage. It’s mucher better this way IMO

  78. “Learn to be alone.”

    Learn to be okay with a certain level of aloneness… is that a word even?

    Cultivate good, solid friendships. Real friendship is not that easy to come by, but men have an easier time establishing relationships with other men than men with women.

    Learn to be alone sounds defeatist. Depressive even. Stay away from that shit guys.

  79. @Fleezer… You’re a smart motherfucker. Really enjoy reading your shit. Lots of high quality comments here.

  80. Hello to everyone. I’ve read quite a few “redpill” blogs and posts (primarily out of interest in how men think) and I would like to bring up one point that i didn’t completely agree with.

    “Dumping a woman is the highest form of social proof for a man.”

    While that may be the case when he inadvertently tells other women he has done this, it doesn’t necessarily mean the real dumpee will ever take the man back or guarantee she will remember him afterwards. In other words, most women don’t care if a guy dumps her, especially if he wasn’t meaningful to begin with. The host does mention this in his Final Thoughts but he may not know just how deep this goes. Men have to understand, some of us simply string men along just for fun and majority of women do not care if they get cut off. We know we can always get another man because we typically already have a circle of men pawning for our attention. This doesn’t just revolve around betas, mind you. Now a days, women can have easy access to Alphas (granted if she’s attractive enough) so there’s no shortage or even an effort to attain men for us. Some girls will even juggle two men and when one drops her, she will call the other man up and he will happily oblige. While the rejection may sting a little, it quickly wears off as we prepare for our next adventure. We are in it just for the ride. We live off of new experiences and hate what is familiar, that is true. What I find funny is just how mad men get at this selection that we have but had the tables be turned, they would gleefully accept the idea of having many women to choose from, too. Both sexes, not just women, want things when they are convenient.

    As a sidenote:
    For my sisters and I, our most meaningful relationships were always the ones we had in our early youth (think: 13-17 years old). There’s just something very powerful about woman’s first love (which is another area where the sexes differ). We will constantly judge new men by it. It may seem unfortunate to some, but most men will never compare because young love goes beyond adult things like: maturity, “amused mastery”, and even performance. There’s that amazing sensation of picking your first and learning how to trust a man for the first time. Nothing can ever compare to it. I’ve had men who were CEOs, men who were fighters, body builders, artists, men of all types and none could ever compare to the boy I first loved who lived 4 houses down my old street when I was 13.

  81. @maddy

    Not a word in what you said hasn’t been covered by Rollo already. You’re late to the party, sweetheart. Thanks for the confirmations though.

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