Post Selection

post-selection

Anonymous Reader on Dalrock’s thread had an interesting observation about women’s (wives’) dumbfounded response to discovering that the Beta chump they believed would be entirely optionless and adrift after they divorced, in fact, had far more SMV capital than her solipsism would allow her to acknowledge:

So, dear Lisa, you (a) had a husband but (b) decided you did not want him anymore and now (c) other women do want him? Whose fault is this, again? Great display of a version of preselection that ought to be called “post selection” (if Rollo or Heartiste or someone else hasn’t already thought of that).

Reminds me of a divorce I saw from a moderate distance a few years ago. Wife got a couple of promotions at her work, while her salesman husband just plodded along with the usual feast or famine of that business. She apparently got “married” to her job, putting in long hours serving the situational alpha men she worked for. Then at home made up for the long hours by showering attention on the kids while stiffarming “whats-his-name”. When he had an affair she was, by all accounts, surprised. When he had a second affair she divorced him. Both were churchgoing, and I agree that she had Bible-based grounds for divorce, there was no question he was cheating. But he wasn’t the roving-eye type for the first 5 to 10 years of marriage, so perhaps a certain lack of something tempted him to cheat? What could it have been?

Familiarity breeds contempt, but it also breeds complacency.

I’ve stated in many prior thread that familiarity, comfort, rapport, vulnerability and security are all anti-seductive attributes when it come to women’s sexual response. I’m not saying those elements aren’t intrinsically good or bad, just that men shouldn’t buy the boilerplate sexual filibustering of women who would have them believe they are in anyway arousal cues for women.

As Roissy’s maxim states – “‘Gina tingles are born in the defensive crouch.”

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she’ll have sex with you regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek at the end of the night, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

The problem most husbands and LTR live-in boyfriends experience in this respect is that there is no opportunity for a fresh start once that pattern of familiarity and comfort has been established and is what’s expected from him.

This principle is easy for us to understand from the man’s side, but what about the woman’s?

Anonymous’ observations here tell a broader story. Dal’s quick-hit post and the article he linked there is well worth the read, but it essentially illustrates a common regret women are forced to acknowledge when they’ve opted out of a relationship, or were opted out of by their men as a result of their protracted dissatisfaction with those women – they simply cannot fathom that the Beta man they cut loose has a sexual market value that other women would not just appreciate, but jump at, far quicker than they imagined.

Considering that 70%+ of all divorces are initiated by women, women opting out is usually the case. If you track along with the time line I presented in Preventive Medicine you can also see that this opt out (first divorce) window usually coincides with the time a man is (should be) experiencing his SMV peak.

After 7 or so years of marriage the familiarity, the routine and the comfort a woman expects from her statistically Beta husband are cemented for her. Reliable, sensible, comforting and responsible make for a great security prospect, but a boring ‘fuck prospect’. Unless that woman is casually, but frequently put into the defensive crouch (via passive dread) that man’s Archetype is set in her mind for her. His behavior is predictable and familiar, and boring to the point that she suspects no woman but her would ‘tolerate’ him.

In fact this perception is reinforced for her, not just by a fem-centric culture, but her husband’s constant self-deprecating praise of how “lucky he is to have a woman like her who’d put up with a guy like him. Haha, LOL.” In spite of all this supplication, women still affirm that man as the unexciting Beta chump who she subconsciously pegs would be entirely optionless in the SMP were (when) he to be re-released back into the wild.

Women want to get with a man that other men want to be, and other women want to fuck.

This is an easy maxim for a woman who’s single, but it takes on new imperatives when that man is fighting against the familiarity and comfort elements that come with long term monogamy and living together. That familiar complacency combined with Hypergamic social expectations makes women doubt that the man they thought other women might compete for has morphed into an optionless schlub only she would have the patience to constantly tolerate.

One of the reasons I advise against men and women shacking up is because the comfort and regularity of that living situation eventually becomes a disincentive for women to maintain a consistent sexual desire and urgency for the man she’s paired with. Women are at their ‘sexual best’ when men keep them at arms reach, and this is primarily due to the anxiety she experiences in the doubt over whether she’ll be able to consolidate on an optimized Hypergamy with that guy.

Post Selection

As Anonymous hints at, there is a form of social proof a ‘released’ man enjoys once he’s been cut from women’s Hypergamous equation. To understand how this works we need to remember that Hypergamy is fundamentally rooted in doubt:

The Abdication Imperative

Hypergamy is rooted in doubt. Hypergamy is an inherently insecure system that constantly tests, assesses, retests and reassesses for optimal reproductive options, long-term provisioning, parental investment, and offspring and personal protection viability in a potential mate. Even under the most secure of prospects hypergamy still doubts. The evolutionary function of this incessant doubt would be a selected-for survival instinct, but the process of hypergamy’s assessment requires too much mental effort to be entirely relegated to women’s subconscious. Social imperatives had to be instituted not only to better facilitate the hypergamous process, but also to reassure the feminine that men were already socially pre-programmed to align with that process.

Dumping a woman is the highest form of social proof for a man.

In no uncertain terms he demonstrates to her that he has the supreme confidence he can find another woman with better prospect than her. Even if this isn’t the pretext of the breakup, this is the message in the medium that she understands; she doesn’t measure up to his expectations.

This then is further compounded by the unconscious knowledge that it should be women who are socially in charge of the sexual selection and approval process. When a man dumps a woman he demonstrably takes that agency away from her.

However, the effectiveness of that social proof for the dumped woman is only proportional to the doubt that he may have been a better, more optimal Hypergamic choice for her. We understand the effectiveness even a fabricated perception of preselection has on women, but depending on the psychological impact a man has, post-selection and the uncertainty of his long term fitness can be so powerful it can create an Alpha Widow of her.

Hypergamous doubt makes women creatures of constant comparison. Thus, when (if) she makes another intimate connection after that breakup, the new guy is held next to the comparison of the previous one. Once that comparison is made, that post-selection value of the previous guy (or lack thereof) becomes reinforced for her.

Starting Over

Women have a biological imperative to restart the Hypergamic process far more rapidly than men when they’re younger and closer to their SMV peak. They have more time to capitalize on it.

However, once they are on the opposite side of the Wall and men are ascending to their own SMV peak, “getting over” the relationship is equated with remarriage because men have the SMV advantage. That previous husband or LTR lover has the power of selection and confirmation she no longer holds as she did in her youth.

Women have far less marketability and prospect to restart that Hypergamic process once this agency exchanges hands with men. They’ve lost on a perceived long-term investment. Thus her brooding fixates on his ease of finding a new mate, with his remarriage being the context of finalizing that break with her.

I should also add that rarely is consideration is given to the incentives and reasons for the breakup whatsoever on her part. Convenient social conventions aid her in thinking she is blameless in the circumstances that led to the split and he is heartless for “getting over’ her at all, much less quickly. We are left to presume that it’s he who should suffer the same or more. He should be pining for her, he should be regretting the split.

It’s far easier for a man to move on with new women when his benchmark for intimacy was set by a sexless marriage to an authoritarian, shaming, shrew. Maybe it’s that thought that really hurts – it was easy to get over her because the opt out for him is sooooo much better a prospect than a lifetime of having to untangle her hangups about him.

Final Thought

Bear in mind this post-selection dynamic is only effective insofar as a man’s SMV can be actualized outside of his previous relationship.

Women only contemplate whether a man has moved on from her quickly when they care to concern themselves with it. If it was she who initiated the breakup with her Beta husband/LTR women are simply indifferent to what the guy is doing a year or so down the road.

Nothing is more satisfying to a woman than to believe she’s figured a man out using her mythical feminine intuition. This works in a positive sense when a man leads her to believe she’s genuinely got inside his head, but it also works in the self-convincing negative sense when she dismisses a guy who no longer qualifies for her long term (or short term sexual) hypergamic interests.

The satisfying feminine indignation comes from convincing herself he was never really as invested as he led her to believe he was. Thus the loss of investment is converted to betrayal and becomes a source of self-righteousness despite any circumstance she contributed to the break herself.

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[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]

John
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John

I’m 60. In great shape physically. Work out every day. Hike, cycle, and so on. Good ballroom dancer. Play guitar. I found red pill at the start of this year when my wife was gearing up to dump me because she wasn’t happy. Wife told me that I’d be a lonely old man after she dumped me, doomed to be alone and single for the rest of my life. I wondered about that. Wife then moved elsewhere in the house. Obviously the sex stopped. As did pretty much everything else. Wife still unhappy then told everyone she knew, including our… Read more »

The Lone Planet
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The Lone Planet

Women. Are. Idiots.

thedeclineandfall
Guest

‘Convenient social conventions aid her in thinking she is blameless in the circumstances that led to the split and he is heartless for “getting over’ her at all, much less quickly’

That is great stuff Rollo. I think you just nailed the primary qualification to become a relationship and divorce advice blogger on the Huffington Post.

The Diplomat
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The Diplomat

@thedecline

“That is great stuff Rollo. I think you just nailed the primary qualification to become a relationship and divorce advice blogger on the Huffington Post.”

lol From all that I’ve ever seen, the only qualification for being a HuffPo relationship and divorce advice blogger is to dutifully parrot the FI, bash positive masculinity, and get the hamster wheels spinning at 5000rpm.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

Post selection for older women goes right along with women wanting an already made man. If she is surprised by her ex suddenly being seen as a hot commodity, then she has forgotten about how women want a man who is established, so to speak, than one that will be. Which has been mentioned here before, of course. And also, women of any age, regardless of who initiated the break-up, can’t stand it if their ex finds another before they do. And I would say that even is partly why, it may be subconsciously done, they’ll often break-up with somebody… Read more »

thepatriotblogspot
Guest

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait. Women want to get with a man that other men want to be, and other women want to fuck. familiarity, comfort, rapport, vulnerability and security are all anti-seductive attributes when it come to women’s sexual response. I’m not saying those elements aren’t intrinsically good or bad, just that men shouldn’t buy the boilerplate sexual filibustering of women who would have them believe they are in anyway arousal cues for women. After 7 or… Read more »

thedeclineandfall
Guest

Case in point is Sandra LaMorgese who is a divorcee and Ph.D who currently has the top article in the Love and Sex section. I can hear the wheel spinning. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sandra-lamorgese-phd/sexual-confidence_b_7947504.html?utm_hp_ref=love–sex ‘ I myself faced this problem of sexual confidence when I returned to the dating scene in my 50s. I was financially independent, full of vitality, and ready to have some fun, but my head was still full of the uncomfortable and unfulfilling lifelong patterns I’d had with men. It was clear to me that if I wanted a different experience in romance, I had to change the way… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist

Married 28 years, 81 bangs since Jan. 1, 2015. As beta as fuck. Hmm….

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

Women want to get with a man that other men want to be, and other women want to fuck.

Noticed that in rugby

BA
Guest
BA

“sexless marriage to an authoritarian, shaming, shrew” Excellent description of my former marriage. Thanks. It’s been a bit more than two years since I filed for my divorce. And I’ve been amazingly happy since. Did a fair bit of dating and am currently seeing a woman 10 years my junior (I’m 50 BTW). The level of arousal I continue to generate in her is a surprise to me. But a very pleasant one. As for my ex, I sometimes vindictively hope she’s as miserable as the woman who wrote the article. But I can’t be bothered to find out. I’m… Read more »

thedeclineandfall
Guest

@Rollo,

Neomasculinity couldn’t afford to hire her as a motivational speaker given that impressive resume, lol. I couldn’t stop laughing upon reading “Ordained Reverend” given that cougar dating picture of her in a dog-kennel.

Seething Lurker
Guest
Seething Lurker

@John

Three cheers for you. Your (overweight) wife is in for a rude awakening. It appears to me that many, if not all, post-wall women are holding onto a grossly inflated perception of their sexual market value which is grounded in their actual pre-wall sexuall market value.

Ang Aamer
Guest

I have seen like 20+ divorces of early 30s women. I agree women are idiots. They liked the nice beta while they had 1-2 kids in diapers. But… they woman’s career starts to take off and bam they are unhaaaapy. I have counseled like 6 women not to divorce. I knew they would be really unhappy after they hit the 30+ dating market. But alas only one listened. And she still bitched about her beta loser she took back. Arrrgh. My current theory about 30ish divorcees is that it’s actually a cry for a man to alpha up. Like the… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

I like “post preselection” – more ironic.

theasdgamer
Guest

Mrs. Gamer came home from work sick today. She was retching so hard that she peed her pants. I gave her some pepto bismol tablets to calm her stomach. She also had a headache, so some ibuprofen helped. Mrs. Gamer is an INTJ iron lady. She has come home from work sick twice during our 30+ years of marriage. Tough as nails. Had back labor and barely cried. Later today Mrs. Gamer wanted me to lie down on the blanket in front of the TV with her. While I was lying next to her, Mrs. Gamer started flirting with me.… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh

@Rollo
“This then is further compounded by the unconscious knowledge that it should be women who are socially in charge of the sexual selection and approval process. When a man dumps a woman he demonstrably takes that agency away from her.”

Johnycomelately
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Johnycomelately

An interesting aspect of marriage 1.0 was that it was a protective measure against post wall women’s deep seeded fear of being dumped when they’re ‘worn out’ and replaced by newer and prettier options. Marriage 2.0 has carried on this spirit by trying to financially shackle men to their post wall anchors. An unintended consequence of no fault divorce is that financially stable and high SMV men can take the hit and move on to bigger and better things. Just look at childless Elizabeth Gilbert of EPL infamy, her husband moved on and remarried to a diplomat and now has… Read more »

walawala
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walawala

A major problem in today’s feminist imperative is that we men don’t understand their true “value” or under-value themselves—we too often go after substandard women, we accept bad behavior, we limit themselves.

Once you understand your value or your self-esteem is solid, your interactions with women become easier, more ‘natural’ and enjoyable.

Onder Hassan
Guest
Onder Hassan

This article is so on the money. I used to date a Polish girl for 6 months who still gets a horde of beta chodes chasing her for commitment and sending her letters with roses attached to it (I shit you not). Soon after dumping her for not wanting to be attached and taking a break from each other for a few months. She would eventually contact me, flirt and want to meet up. In addition to all of this, I set the frame that I would never consider myself getting married, how all women i’ve ever dated in the… Read more »

Opus
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Opus

No doubt about it, women hate being dumped; not because they are inconsolable – they will get over it in a few months at most, usually less – but because the man has succeeded by his action in revealing that they are not as desirable as they think they are and that he not her was in control of the relationship. Women are not used to being rejected, any more than they are using to being held to account for their actions. I have a post break-up letter from an ex-gf who had prior thereto convinced herself that I found… Read more »

Mazrim
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Mazrim

I’m incredibly happy for you, John! I’m 44 and you’ve only confirmed the hopes & suspisions & aspirations I have for myself.

“Dumping a woman is the highest form of social prof there is”. Man, thank you Rollo & CH for short, incredibly quick disgestible insightful mantras. Sure explains how guys like DiCaprio are able to bang their way through the VS catalog w/o any real consequences from the femedia.

Softek
Guest
Softek

@ walawala “Once you understand your value or your self-esteem is solid, your interactions with women become easier, more ‘natural’ and enjoyable.” And value and self-esteem have nothing to do with anything but your perception of your value and self-esteem. This is why the “mission in life” thing throws me a bit. I don’t agree with the “build and they will come” mentality at all. If you don’t have any Game and just focus on improving your life, you’re going to be building a hell of a long time before any pussy just falls into your lap. And if you’re… Read more »

ChocDoc
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ChocDoc

” After 7 or so years of marriage the familiarity, the routine and the comfort a woman expects from her statistically Beta husband are cemented for her. Reliable, sensible, comforting and responsible make for a great security prospect, but a boring ‘fuck prospect’. Unless that woman is casually, but frequently put into the defensive crouch (via passive dread) that man’s Archetype is set in her mind for her. His behavior is predictable and familiar, and boring to the point that she suspects no woman but her would ‘tolerate’ him. ” The burden of man is not that he has to… Read more »

Onder Hassan
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Onder Hassan

@Softek You make a very good point and was the exact dilemma I was going through. What often doesn’t get discussed in the pickup and dating community in detail is the idea that a man has to have a life that is lived with purpose and should be ambitious. Sure it’s not the solution to getting laid. But what it does do, which i’m experiencing at first hand is that it brings out a natural aura and sense of direction and confidence that women go crazy for and adds points to your natural attractiveness. It also makes you less needy… Read more »

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

@ Onder Hassan

I absolutely agree with your observation of the PUA teachings.

” But what it does do, which i’m experiencing at first hand is that it brings out a natural aura and sense of direction and confidence that women go crazy for and adds points to your natural attractiveness.

It also makes you less needy for pussy because you’ll be hopefully in a position where you’re getting fulfilment from the things you’re keeping yourself busy with”

Yes, thats very true!

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

Balance is everything. Even too much pussy is bad…Lol

Softek
Guest
Softek

@ Onder Agreed. I think it’s just important for guys to realize that having your life together isn’t a prerequisite for getting pussy. They can fall into the trap of thinking that if they just work hard and develop themselves, they’ll get laid — which is Beta, i.e. believing in Negotiated Desire as opposed to understanding the reality of Genuine Desire. Those are two extreme ends of the spectrum: guys that end up getting obsessed with pussy and let the rest of their lives fall apart, and guys that have their lives together except for getting pussy, and end up… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/9900000/And-here-we-GO-the-joker-9997627-214-153.gif Why monogamy is broken in 2015: Monogamy specifically removes the qualities of a man that are attractive. She no longer has any fear that she’ll lose you to another woman, you lose your social/flirting skills, you lose parts of your social circle (no more female friends, sorry, they’ll make your girl too jealous and give you too much drama with cheating accusations), being around hot women is torture since you can only window shop so going out to bars with your single buddies so you lose some friendships, and living in a high-population is less appealing since you can’t… Read more »

phantom26d
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phantom26d

I have an off topic question.. On the internet I met an 14 year old boy who lives in Canada. He told me that he wants to get married and have kids, so I felt obliged to approach him about the nature of women, marriage courts et cetera.. But I could not figure out the best way to handle this situation. What would you do if you met such a young boy on the internet?

YaReally
Guest

@Onder “If you combine this with actually going out and approaching girls or even socialising with people. You will naturally find hooking up with them becomes that much more simple – You’ll no longer have the need to want to hook up and will have a natural aloofness of an alpha without being conscious of it. ” The problem is that when you pitch that plan to these guys: http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/01.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9P8I8.jpg They are already heavily focused on other purposes outside of women, and have been their whole lives because they don’t know how to interact with women. Newbies to the… Read more »

pacguy
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pacguy

This stuff just hits incredibly close to home for me. The fat harpy would often say “no one else would put up with your bullshit” or “others would have already left you by now” when we are fighting. Yes, I did do some stupid shit to get her pissed off but nothing anyone would reasonably describe as being worst husband ever material. In my blue pill days I just agreed and apologized like a bitch in an effort to make things better. Now I know my value and I’m raising it every day. The wife on the other hand is… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@ YaReally Monogamy specifically removes the qualities of a man that are attractive. She no longer has any fear that she’ll lose you to another woman, you lose your social/flirting skills, you lose parts of your social circle (no more female friends, sorry, they’ll make your girl too jealous and give you too much drama with cheating accusations), being around hot women is torture since you can only window shop so going out to bars with your single buddies so you lose some friendships, and living in a high-population is less appealing since you can’t DO anything (a house in… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@theasdgamer “I’m proof that marriage can still work” Yes, you’re running the same style of marriage that Rollo is running: constant passive dread-game and preselection. My argument isn’t that marriage and monogamy CAN’T work, it’s that marriage and monogamy in 2015’s society VERY SEVERELY HANDICAP the chances of it working because by their very nature they eliminate a lot of attractive qualities in the average guy. Now a guy who’s smart and understands the red pill and goes into a marriage KNOWING “this arrangement, by it’s nature, removes a lot of power from me, so I have to pro-actively ensure… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

” . . . monogamy for most guys in 2015 is like loading 5 rounds in the gun…you CAN still get that one empty chamber . . .”

. . . but learn what a Taurus Judge looks like first. You can never be too careful these days.

Onder Hassan
Guest
Onder Hassan

@YaReally The concept is sound. However, my strategy is simple in that I would not make any girl my primary and make my mission or goals in life as the primary. Because like you said, any girl with certainty will no longer find you as attractive. So my lethal weapon is my independence that they all basically have to fight for. It’s working for me right now with my current ex GF who i’m getting pornstar level fucks with and having dinners cooked for me. I could easily go out and see/fuck other girls and she knows this. I’m also… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@Onder “But the key thing thats making all of this work is my independence and ambitions. I genuinely don’t need her or any girl that I bring into my life. no girl is above my mission in life.” Right, I’m assuming by default that guys know their purpose/mission/goals should come ABOVE all the girls, even their Primary. That’s like, the default start, I should’ve mentioned it. Like Patrice O’Neal says: “She’s 4th place in my life. Behind ME, my CAREER, my MAMA, and then there’s HER. And that’s a good place to be and she knows it. And she knows… Read more »

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

@ YaReally

EPIC post, dude

Onder Hassan
Guest
Onder Hassan

@YaReally
I agree with you completely. In the beginning, you have to hit the streets hard. After a while though, you do need to dial it down. The problem with this approach is that they continue down that path without focusing on other aspects. Especially when they start to see results, which is very seductive as it makes them wonder what the point is when they’re already getting laid without it.

For me, the mark of a man is to be complete and well adjusted. Most PUAs are 1 dimensional. It’s not a healthy path to be in.

SJF
Guest
SJF

Sorry Rollo, in my reply to phantom26d I put in four links to reading resources and I should know better that three links gets it put in automatic WordPress moderation.

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

A girl should LOVE you, and you only LIKE her

peregrinejohn
Guest
peregrinejohn

Mostly I’m disgusted that someone is unhappy with the person they got rid of being happy. Does she make sure all her trash stays in the dump, or just the men? YaReally said “sarging” – man, I cannot remember the last time I came across that word! Brings me back. He also points out the proper order of things, and it’s worth noting that it’s the order that women demonstrate is the correct approach to them, by rewarding it consistently. All moralizing and arguments to the contrary, if you put them ahead of yourself or even just after (there is… Read more »

Artisanal Toad
Guest

@YaReally Kids is where shit gets tricky. I haven’t figured that part out yet. You’ve almost got it. As a rule I write for Christians, but the fact is you are correct that monogamy is dead under this cultural and legal system. That is not to say that marriage is dead. Biblically speaking, there is no such thing as monogamy and polygyny, there is only marriage. Polygyny (multiple wives) is the only stable form of marriage available today in the US. The reason is the state will not recognize it as a marriage, thus there can be no divorce. That… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Happy wife, happy life AMIRITE??

Fakk, no! Chasing wife, happy life. (She’s chasing me.) That’s my maxim.

(By the way, I ate the cookies and some of the fattening foods and continued to lose weight. A nuclear pass.)

YaReally
Guest

@Onder “After a while though, you do need to dial it down” Ya I say focus on pickup in your early to mid 20s and focus on career lifestyle etc. in your late 20s and beyond. The skills you learn in your 20s will help keep you in abundant pussy when you’re making big career/hobby/purpose strides as you approach your SMV peak. Most guys do it the other way, they focus on career etc. in their 20s then they get to the end and it’s like “ok where’s all the girls I heard would suck my dick if I became… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

By the way, we went to a pool party recently. Several single women–one semi-whale, none trim. One married blonde who was trim and pretty but had no norks. All were looking for validation and dressed to be seen. Mrs. Gamer stayed clothed. She was the one that the men all wanted to see in a bikini. Mrs. Gamer is an over 60 broad with a good body (if she lost 15 lbs. it would be a great body) and a face that is still not bad looking. Mrs. Gamer makes sure that she’s still attractive. NB: She could stand to… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@Rollo One of the reasons I advise against men and women shacking up is because the comfort and regularity of that living situation eventually becomes a disincentive for women to maintain a consistent sexual desire and urgency for the man she’s paired with. I still disagree with pitting this against marriage and considering marriage the better option in the age of Marriage 2.0. You get the same disincentives whether in a marriage or just cohabitation In marriage however your Dread Game can be called out as a bluff, particularly with how the marriage laws are 100% against you as the… Read more »

MikePhil
Guest
MikePhil

Referring to the original point of this article, I can very definitely attest that it is true. In my experience, women hate, hate, HATE it when you pick yourself up from the curb against which you’ve been kicked, brush yourself off and actually manage to have a successful relationship with another woman who clearly digs you. Can’t say why (I’m not a woman) but it may be a number of things. Someone else valuing the man she discarded may call into question the accuracy of her own feminine intuition, and we all know that any criticism of that “man picker… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

YaReally–about men needing social skills: I don’t have great social skills, but I have no difficulty getting female attention. Must be my IDGAS attitude that conveys high status and that people seem to want my attention as social proof. I say goodbye to people infrequently and chat people up infrequently. And I don’t try hard to carry on a convo. I break rapport frequently–I’m almost always the first to move on. And I don’t chat about my obsessions much. IDGAS about culture or what young women follow. I don’t chat them up about that 5h1t. We talk about what I… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@Artisanal Toad “As a rule I write for Christians” I’m open to any insights from any source. There are small hints of this all working, in various forms, in various points in history, but to actually look at it all and figure out the commonalities and formulate it into a consistent step by step plan is an ideal goal to me, whatever that final form looks like. Religion is one of the “social shaming” aspects of why monogamy used to work, I’m not religious myself but I can fully acknowledge that having the fear of going to Hell for doing… Read more »

Excalibur
Guest
Excalibur

@Rollo: Does your wife and your daughter know about your blog and books, and do they read them?

theasdgamer
Guest

Sun, if a man is high value (he has options/abundance mentality/is non-needy), then the woman will seriously weigh whether she wants to lose access to him. (She may need to recalc his SMV for its current value.) A while back, Mrs. Gamer moved out of the house. She later returned to chat. I told Mrs. Gamer that I wanted a divorce (even though I had no income). I really wanted a divorce at that point. My subcomms verified my statement. It was a massive DHV per this post. Mrs. Gamer started chasing me hard. Invited me on a date and… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@Rollo “FWIW, I don’t ‘run’ passive dread Game on Mrs. T.” “My natural response to unsolicited, third-party, soft dread is to subtly recognize it and casually emphasize it. It fits nicely as a part of Amused Mastery.” Lol you can call it “eating a sandwich while doing a backflip” if you want but this is running passive game whether you do it naturally or subconsciously just like a natural touching a girl is still “kino’ing a girl”. What I mean primarily is that you’ve chosen a career/lifestyle where you don’t have to actively dread-game her, your career/lifestyle does that FOR… Read more »

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“There’s a reason why the Sultans of Turkey kept harems, because it works.” the conditions are much different these days though. this is not your chinese emperor’s harem. the women are not locked up. there are no eunuchs guarding them. there is no death penalty for those men who would sneak in and grab a quick bang. a true harem is where a man has EXCLUSIVE access to multiple women. this term is thrown around casually and incorrectly. when puas say “harem” what they really mean is multiple fuckbuddies aka plate theory. this is great for reducing beta thirst but… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

@Yareally “Most guys do it the other way, they focus on career etc. in their 20s then they get to the end and it’s like “ok where’s all the girls I heard would suck my dick if I became a doctor??” and they realize they still have to approach and socialize and learn some pickup but it’s harder to start doing at 30 now that they don’t have a college campus etc around them.” That’s familiar and something I’ve found quiet interesting to say the least. But spot on. I think based of social feedback that I haven’t practiced enough… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

@Mikephill “In my experience, women hate, hate, HATE it when you pick yourself up from the curb against which you’ve been kicked, brush yourself off and actually manage to have a successful relationship with another woman who clearly digs you.” That’s so true I see that in a lot of social situations that mostly at this point in my life take place in family homes. Odd yet growing up many of my buddy’s moms would demonstrate this openly. @Rollo That article is still relevant to me. No matter how much your work improves key elements of my life it doesn’t… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@ YaReally So that’s monogamy. “So that’s monogamy as Blue Pill betas understand it.” Fixed. No reason we can’t teach betas about the importance of having options/abundance mentality/being non-needy. Even in my social circle, men are becoming aware of the Red Pill. Betas can learn and increase their value. Men used to understand this stuff before when one generation would pass this to the next. The breakup of the family has thrown a cog in the generational male info-passing. NFD has been a major benefit to the FI in so many ways. Back when I was a boy in the… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Re Mrs. Gamer having a weak hand

Mrs. Gamer has a grand old time despite having a weak hand. She wins by keeping me. Mrs. Gamer gets my attention. She really enjoys sex. Mrs. Gamer sees me as high value. So don’t feel sorry for her. My comfort game keeps her discomfort to a minimum even when I go out solo.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

@Rollo “because the context of a “Christian” marriage has been redefined by the conventions of bastardized chivalry, courtly love and the post-agrarian “a-wife-for-every-beta” social contract. The FI utilizes this to its own purpose now by linking it to men’s presupposed duty to ‘Honor’ and how that defines manhood in one-sided ways that are convenient to the ends of the imperative.” http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/things-are-changing-in-the-polygamist-towns-of-hil/37137/o-6Rh8sHdkOfgl1vUA7U5A Went here to see those words and @Yareally statement first hand. When Inside a household of an undisputed alpha a man with 16 wives against from 17 to 43 I was in a blue pill mindset but awestruck of… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@theasdgamer “She was the one that the men all wanted to see in a bikini. Mrs. Gamer is an over 60 broad with a good body (if she lost 15 lbs. it would be a great body) and a face that is still not bad looking.” ?w=300 “However, not having negative social skills is probably adequate to get female attention if you have subcomms and will isolate and instigate” Well ya, if you’re subcomming high value and isolating and instigating and escalating you can do fine. You can pick up a girl without saying a word if you have that… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@Rollo “@YaReally, that’s why I don’t call it “running” dread Game. It’s a constant, ambient, subroutine running in the background for me.” lol ya, just a definition difference is all. You’re like a guy who spun a top and he’s able to sit back and let it spin by its own accord, VS a guy who’s constantly rotating the top manually…but you still had to, at some point, set that top in motion. “And you’re right, it’s the result of the life choices and style I’ve cultivated for the past 25 years or so. In a way I’ve positioned myself,… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

As a general rule, Christians have no idea what Christian values are and simply ascribe whatever values they happen to hold to Christianity.

Luxocrat
Guest
Luxocrat

@softek And that is what makes a man Alpha. Great point.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

@kfg
“Christian values are and simply ascribe whatever values they happen to hold to Christianity.”
That In a blue pill mindset can lead to nowhere good in the long term.

6ULDV8
Guest
6ULDV8

I will say, this post-selection dynamic, paired with creating an Alpha Widow, creates a unique form of monster in women.

I went through it. Divorced very hot wife who was a relentless shit-tester.

Many interesting events have ensued.

theasdgamer
Guest

So they need mass socializing experience till they’re comfortable enough to do that shit I got the same message to be submissive and had to fight it just like all the betas. I hit puberty at 14, kissed two girls the same year, then started dropping panties of girls I met the same night when I was 15. Didn’t actually get laid until about the time I turned 19. Wasn’t emotionally ready for it and was restrained by messages from my mother and church. Didn’t want to buy condoms over the counter–autistic inhibitions against doing that which are now gone.… Read more »

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“But now we need to feed them step by step solutions that also gel with their ultimate Disney goal of a doting hot wife who fucks them, 2.5 kids, and a white pickett fence.” it’s not a diznee goal. that’s a pejorative label that trivializes the deep-seated desires that men across the world have had for thousands of years. the idea of a man having a piece of land with allodial title, a devoted wife he has the hots for and strong healthy kids to survive after him is much older than a stupid media company. for many guys it… Read more »

Troberts
Guest
Troberts

“Bear in mind this post-selection dynamic is only effective insofar as a man’s SMV can be actualized outside of his previous relationship.” Sure, get rid of the dad jeans, hit the gym, be interesting and multi-faceted, keep yourself agile and never boring. At 48 I look younger, carry no tire, wear nice clothes and have an emerging new start-up that’s poised to do well in the protected (read: fiat) GovCon marketplace. Hopefully this year I get to Canada to finally do some heli-skiing. And, after I dumped the BMW motorcycle in an accident in May (nor 100% recovered), I’ll buy… Read more »

Liz
Guest

“This is an interesting article that pretty much dissolves the ‘concerns’ of Lizshitz in the article Dalrock quoted”

Hey now, how did you find out my last name?
I’ll bet next you’ll reveal that my middle name is nutsandcorn!

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

@theasdgamer “I was at a salsa lesson with lots of 30-somethings. The dance instructor asked for a man to demo a certain move. I’m a relative beginner at salsa, but I volunteered. Anyway, I led an inside turn instead of an outside turn. The instructor wanted an outside turn. So I did it again and led an outside turn correctly. As I returned to my place, all the men cheered and held out their palms for me to slap.” That happened with zouk for me. I do mostly blues but that feeling is so amazing to behold. It’s as if… Read more »

Seething Lurker
Guest
Seething Lurker

@Opus

“No doubt about it, women hate being dumped; not because they are inconsolable – they will get over it in a few months at most, usually less – but because the man has succeeded by his action in revealing that they are not as desirable as they think they are and that he not her was in control of the relationship.”

Hence the old saying, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

M Simon
Guest

YaReally
August 12th, 2015 at 9:32 am

oLTR? pLTR? What the heck does that mean? If you are going to invent words – some hint as to meaning would be helpful.

Vitriol
Guest
Vitriol

@Johnycomelately “Demographic-opportunity theory: Women’s likelihood of having multiple partners and of engaging in extramarital sex will be higher in communities containing relative large numbers of men. …A numerical surplus of men hastens the transition to first marriage for women and increases the probability that women engage in premarital, multiple-partner, and extramarital sexual relationships. “ This explains why the issues of divorce and infidelity are exacerbated in a place like the U.S. There is a large surplus of men relative to women in the 40s and under crowd in pretty much every major city. Plus, pretty much everyone has access to… Read more »

Chump No More
Guest
Chump No More

o = open, p = poly, I’m guessing

Red Knight (@RedKnight1990)
Guest

@ Rollo

You always do such a great job of summarizing the Fool’s Game. Teach boys to be moral and just in a society where opportunism and social maneuvering are the currency. I love this article because it highlights the indignation of the female psyche when the male flips the script.

Nancy Pelosy
Guest
Nancy Pelosy

The wife getting promotions was the problem. She projected her own desire for a hi status man onto men’s (non-existent) desire for a hi status woman. I believe it’s called hubris.

lh
Guest
lh

“Men may never truly get over a relationship: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/men-may-never-truly-get-over-a-relationship-breakup-says-study-10450413.html” If it would be just the reasons given in that text, the cure seems clear from a RP perspective. But I think there is more. I think Oneitis may even lead to (almost?) permanent changes to the brain or the hormonal balance. And while recovering to higher levels of T or jumping on the next may help somewhat, I think it isn’t enough to cure the illness to the core. I think one remains more vulnerable to Oneitis after getting it once. But I also think with enough work on your… Read more »

Chump No More
Guest
Chump No More

@Rollo Another spot-on blog post! I’ve experienced ‘post selection’ with both my ex’s. The 1st wrote a long ‘I fucked up’ letter to me, several years after our divorce, which screamed Alpha Widow, as the scenario Rollo describes in the post. In the 15 years since our split, she hasn’t remarried, let alone have a significant LTR. The 2nd made a point of mentioning to me how harsh the dating scene has become and her abject failure in navigating it, during a meeting to workout further financial untangling (as many know, this can take years). Neither one had any clue… Read more »

Dutchman
Guest
Dutchman

@Vitriol “This explains why the issues of divorce and infidelity are exacerbated in a place like the U.S. There is a large surplus of men relative to women in the 40s and under crowd in pretty much every major city. Plus, pretty much everyone has access to things like the internet, smartphones, and personal transportation which allow women easy access to sex. Due to demographics, there are always going to be a sizable number of men doing without and jumping at any opportunity with a woman who signals availability.” I really wonder how much further these trends will go as… Read more »

lh
Guest
lh

Women being much worse off after divorce are one reason I don’t believe hypergamy is as simple as it sometimes seems in the manosphere. After all women often aren’t very clever with it. And game >>> more status, looks, “better man”. Only if you define “better man” as “has game”, the equation really works, but what is it good for then?

The Lone Planet
Guest
The Lone Planet

Learn to be alone.

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

@ Lone planet

That’s Rule number one!

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

@Vitriol ” This explains why the issues of divorce and infidelity are exacerbated in a place like the U.S. There is a large surplus of men relative to women in the 40s and under crowd in pretty much every major city. Plus, pretty much everyone has access to things like the internet, smartphones, and personal transportation which allow women easy access to sex. Due to demographics, there are always going to be a sizable number of men doing without and jumping at any opportunity with a woman who signals availability.” I don’t think there is a large surplus of men… Read more »

lh
Guest
lh

“Learn to be alone.”

That’s not enough. At least understand you were always and will always be alone anyway.

ChocDoc
Guest
ChocDoc

So many men accepting low quality women just because of the fear of being allone/lonely. When a man can handle to be allone, he really can operate from a distinctly higher level.

@ Ya Really: i really like your posts. And i fully agree to the fact, that today it’s better not to marry and to do it the way you have instructively described.
Nowadays a man doesnt have to marry to have kids. It’s absolutely possible to have kids without marriage. It’s mucher better this way IMO

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

“Learn to be alone.”

Learn to be okay with a certain level of aloneness… is that a word even?

Cultivate good, solid friendships. Real friendship is not that easy to come by, but men have an easier time establishing relationships with other men than men with women.

Learn to be alone sounds defeatist. Depressive even. Stay away from that shit guys.

Chump No More
Guest
Chump No More

Learn to be self reliant

kobayashii1681
Guest

Reblogged this on 254Unplugged and commented:
So true…”Never become attached to anything you can’t leave behind in 30 seconds…”

Thoroughbred
Guest
Thoroughbred

@Fleezer… You’re a smart motherfucker. Really enjoy reading your shit. Lots of high quality comments here.

maddy
Guest
maddy

Hello to everyone. I’ve read quite a few “redpill” blogs and posts (primarily out of interest in how men think) and I would like to bring up one point that i didn’t completely agree with. “Dumping a woman is the highest form of social proof for a man.” While that may be the case when he inadvertently tells other women he has done this, it doesn’t necessarily mean the real dumpee will ever take the man back or guarantee she will remember him afterwards. In other words, most women don’t care if a guy dumps her, especially if he wasn’t… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

@maddy

Not a word in what you said hasn’t been covered by Rollo already. You’re late to the party, sweetheart. Thanks for the confirmations though.

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