Post Selection

post-selection

Anonymous Reader on Dalrock’s thread had an interesting observation about women’s (wives’) dumbfounded response to discovering that the Beta chump they believed would be entirely optionless and adrift after they divorced, in fact, had far more SMV capital than her solipsism would allow her to acknowledge:

So, dear Lisa, you (a) had a husband but (b) decided you did not want him anymore and now (c) other women do want him? Whose fault is this, again? Great display of a version of preselection that ought to be called “post selection” (if Rollo or Heartiste or someone else hasn’t already thought of that).

Reminds me of a divorce I saw from a moderate distance a few years ago. Wife got a couple of promotions at her work, while her salesman husband just plodded along with the usual feast or famine of that business. She apparently got “married” to her job, putting in long hours serving the situational alpha men she worked for. Then at home made up for the long hours by showering attention on the kids while stiffarming “whats-his-name”. When he had an affair she was, by all accounts, surprised. When he had a second affair she divorced him. Both were churchgoing, and I agree that she had Bible-based grounds for divorce, there was no question he was cheating. But he wasn’t the roving-eye type for the first 5 to 10 years of marriage, so perhaps a certain lack of something tempted him to cheat? What could it have been?

Familiarity breeds contempt, but it also breeds complacency.

I’ve stated in many prior thread that familiarity, comfort, rapport, vulnerability and security are all anti-seductive attributes when it come to women’s sexual response. I’m not saying those elements aren’t intrinsically good or bad, just that men shouldn’t buy the boilerplate sexual filibustering of women who would have them believe they are in anyway arousal cues for women.

As Roissy’s maxim states – “‘Gina tingles are born in the defensive crouch.”

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she’ll have sex with you regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek at the end of the night, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

The problem most husbands and LTR live-in boyfriends experience in this respect is that there is no opportunity for a fresh start once that pattern of familiarity and comfort has been established and is what’s expected from him.

This principle is easy for us to understand from the man’s side, but what about the woman’s?

Anonymous’ observations here tell a broader story. Dal’s quick-hit post and the article he linked there is well worth the read, but it essentially illustrates a common regret women are forced to acknowledge when they’ve opted out of a relationship, or were opted out of by their men as a result of their protracted dissatisfaction with those women – they simply cannot fathom that the Beta man they cut loose has a sexual market value that other women would not just appreciate, but jump at, far quicker than they imagined.

Considering that 70%+ of all divorces are initiated by women, women opting out is usually the case. If you track along with the time line I presented in Preventive Medicine you can also see that this opt out (first divorce) window usually coincides with the time a man is (should be) experiencing his SMV peak.

After 7 or so years of marriage the familiarity, the routine and the comfort a woman expects from her statistically Beta husband are cemented for her. Reliable, sensible, comforting and responsible make for a great security prospect, but a boring ‘fuck prospect’. Unless that woman is casually, but frequently put into the defensive crouch (via passive dread) that man’s Archetype is set in her mind for her. His behavior is predictable and familiar, and boring to the point that she suspects no woman but her would ‘tolerate’ him.

In fact this perception is reinforced for her, not just by a fem-centric culture, but her husband’s constant self-deprecating praise of how “lucky he is to have a woman like her who’d put up with a guy like him. Haha, LOL.” In spite of all this supplication, women still affirm that man as the unexciting Beta chump who she subconsciously pegs would be entirely optionless in the SMP were (when) he to be re-released back into the wild.

Women want to get with a man that other men want to be, and other women want to fuck.

This is an easy maxim for a woman who’s single, but it takes on new imperatives when that man is fighting against the familiarity and comfort elements that come with long term monogamy and living together. That familiar complacency combined with Hypergamic social expectations makes women doubt that the man they thought other women might compete for has morphed into an optionless schlub only she would have the patience to constantly tolerate.

One of the reasons I advise against men and women shacking up is because the comfort and regularity of that living situation eventually becomes a disincentive for women to maintain a consistent sexual desire and urgency for the man she’s paired with. Women are at their ‘sexual best’ when men keep them at arms reach, and this is primarily due to the anxiety she experiences in the doubt over whether she’ll be able to consolidate on an optimized Hypergamy with that guy.

Post Selection

As Anonymous hints at, there is a form of social proof a ‘released’ man enjoys once he’s been cut from women’s Hypergamous equation. To understand how this works we need to remember that Hypergamy is fundamentally rooted in doubt:

The Abdication Imperative

Hypergamy is rooted in doubt. Hypergamy is an inherently insecure system that constantly tests, assesses, retests and reassesses for optimal reproductive options, long-term provisioning, parental investment, and offspring and personal protection viability in a potential mate. Even under the most secure of prospects hypergamy still doubts. The evolutionary function of this incessant doubt would be a selected-for survival instinct, but the process of hypergamy’s assessment requires too much mental effort to be entirely relegated to women’s subconscious. Social imperatives had to be instituted not only to better facilitate the hypergamous process, but also to reassure the feminine that men were already socially pre-programmed to align with that process.

Dumping a woman is the highest form of social proof for a man.

In no uncertain terms he demonstrates to her that he has the supreme confidence he can find another woman with better prospect than her. Even if this isn’t the pretext of the breakup, this is the message in the medium that she understands; she doesn’t measure up to his expectations.

This then is further compounded by the unconscious knowledge that it should be women who are socially in charge of the sexual selection and approval process. When a man dumps a woman he demonstrably takes that agency away from her.

However, the effectiveness of that social proof for the dumped woman is only proportional to the doubt that he may have been a better, more optimal Hypergamic choice for her. We understand the effectiveness even a fabricated perception of preselection has on women, but depending on the psychological impact a man has, post-selection and the uncertainty of his long term fitness can be so powerful it can create an Alpha Widow of her.

Hypergamous doubt makes women creatures of constant comparison. Thus, when (if) she makes another intimate connection after that breakup, the new guy is held next to the comparison of the previous one. Once that comparison is made, that post-selection value of the previous guy (or lack thereof) becomes reinforced for her.

Starting Over

Women have a biological imperative to restart the Hypergamic process far more rapidly than men when they’re younger and closer to their SMV peak. They have more time to capitalize on it.

However, once they are on the opposite side of the Wall and men are ascending to their own SMV peak, “getting over” the relationship is equated with remarriage because men have the SMV advantage. That previous husband or LTR lover has the power of selection and confirmation she no longer holds as she did in her youth.

Women have far less marketability and prospect to restart that Hypergamic process once this agency exchanges hands with men. They’ve lost on a perceived long-term investment. Thus her brooding fixates on his ease of finding a new mate, with his remarriage being the context of finalizing that break with her.

I should also add that rarely is consideration is given to the incentives and reasons for the breakup whatsoever on her part. Convenient social conventions aid her in thinking she is blameless in the circumstances that led to the split and he is heartless for “getting over’ her at all, much less quickly. We are left to presume that it’s he who should suffer the same or more. He should be pining for her, he should be regretting the split.

It’s far easier for a man to move on with new women when his benchmark for intimacy was set by a sexless marriage to an authoritarian, shaming, shrew. Maybe it’s that thought that really hurts – it was easy to get over her because the opt out for him is sooooo much better a prospect than a lifetime of having to untangle her hangups about him.

Final Thought

Bear in mind this post-selection dynamic is only effective insofar as a man’s SMV can be actualized outside of his previous relationship.

Women only contemplate whether a man has moved on from her quickly when they care to concern themselves with it. If it was she who initiated the breakup with her Beta husband/LTR women are simply indifferent to what the guy is doing a year or so down the road.

Nothing is more satisfying to a woman than to believe she’s figured a man out using her mythical feminine intuition. This works in a positive sense when a man leads her to believe she’s genuinely got inside his head, but it also works in the self-convincing negative sense when she dismisses a guy who no longer qualifies for her long term (or short term sexual) hypergamic interests.

The satisfying feminine indignation comes from convincing herself he was never really as invested as he led her to believe he was. Thus the loss of investment is converted to betrayal and becomes a source of self-righteousness despite any circumstance she contributed to the break herself.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Paul
Paul
4 years ago

Hey Rollo as a big fan I’d love to ask a question/ propose an idea, if it’s not too much hassle to get back. What is your opinion on attainability as a man I have been reading articles that explain women will look for men slightly higher value then them but they will not go for a man who’s value is too high and out of there reach, at the risk there ego will be stung by the mans rejection, so they “auto reject” these men and justify there reasons to themselves to protect there ego, even if mating with… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

Reading still is fundamental. By ” supremacists ” I mean ” supremacists “. See how that works you petty simple-minded fuck? su·prem·a·cist /so͞oˈpreməsəst/ noun noun: supremacist; plural noun: supremacists 1. an advocate of the supremacy of a particular group, especially one determined by race or sex. “a white supremacist” Btw. I would love to see your dumb ass in Syria explaining your position to ISIS in person. Easy to talk shit from the comfort of your hole in the ground. You make a nasty noise because of what I typed. So which are you? Clown or Supremacist? Stuck pig and… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
4 years ago

This makes the point I was expressing about clowns and so forth. The discussion here is supposed to be RP oriented, and this shit pops up. Some motherfuckers just sit at their keyboards itching to jump in with their ” I want my homogenized world ” shit.

…carry on

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Paul

The average guy is at no risk of auto-rejection, particularly with the modern SMV-inflated social media whores most women are. Don’t even worry about that. As I’ve heard it put before: “He who worries about doing too much will always do too little.”

Jay Will
Jay Will
4 years ago

Ye brilliant reply Blaximus. What Ive said there is completely reasonable. Your only option was, “racisssssss”.

And why would I want to be a fuckin Nazi, when past generations of my family died in a war fighting them? You got no answers have you, racist! islamophobe! blah blah blah.

Have I been alpha’d? He did 2 numbers and I wrote like 2 sentences, shit he wins.

Jay Will
Jay Will
4 years ago

So white supremacist is bad, but preference for predominantly white neighbourhood is ok then, yes?

Vitriol
Vitriol
4 years ago

@Blaximus “I could give less than a fuck what Roosh is up to. I used to read his blog but I found him to be very intense and intelligent, followed by being very stupid and dull.” I’ve been glancing over his front page articles since 2013 or so. His commentary on social media and American women was great a few years back, especially after willingly putting himself on the front lines in foreign lands to prove the point. However, he hasn’t really had much original thinking lately and a handful of his associates published the few articles worth reading on… Read more »

Jay Will
Jay Will
4 years ago

“This makes the point I was expressing about clowns and so forth. The discussion here is supposed to be RP oriented, and this shit pops up.” And yet you bring up “clowns and supremacists”. I locked onto that. Why bring it up then? If you don’t think that race is relevant in the Roosh forum you are way off. Its obvious on there that “White Women” is a real thing. Lolworthy that you’ve just said “clowns… and so forth”. Yes Ive not fought in a war against Syrians, does this mean I’m not allowed to have an opinion about racial… Read more »

Jay Will
Jay Will
4 years ago

What the fuck are you talking about. You’ve said this – “Some motherfuckers just sit at their keyboards itching to jump in with their I want my homogenized world shit.” Thats not a fair reflection of what I said. People, in the UK, and other countries, are concerned about significant immigration and how it affects their country. A lot of that IS to do with homogeneity, or at least something close to it. If that makes me a racist or a supremacist then so be it. If you’ve jumped in on here with your “supremacist” put down I guarantee you… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
4 years ago

I agree that Roosh appears to be engaged in one, large, meta-troll, of which this latest Islamic aspect is only the most transparent. It’s a dangerous game he’s now playing, however, and I agree that the danger doesn’t primarily come from SJWs.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
4 years ago

To my white supremacists friends… “When a white person claims that they are not racist today, what they are saying, for the most part, is that they are not “white trash.” In other words, they are not so poor, so miserable as to be obliged to declare their racism openly, nakedly: Since the rhetorical triumph of the civil rights movement, outright bigotry has been banished, more and more, from the field of tolerable public discourse. But there’s an interesting parallel, or at least inversion, from the side of the “white trash” racists. The “white trash” racist slogan “white power” is,… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
4 years ago

@Nova
Roosh picked a terrible war to lose, by retreating to his “traditional Islamic value ” would cost him his western Christian followers and eventually losing his “muslem supporters” when they read his posts/blog attacking “muslem values”.
That was not troll, that was suicide on his part, he is finished.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
4 years ago

I’m sure Roosh have / had? lots of Jay Will -think alike – only to be thrown under the bus when only 35 of them came to help him against his war on SJW.

So what to do when my white friends don’t join the battle? , he enlisted his fellow passionate Muslims (it use to be the other way around).
It’s the same with women, AF/BB.

YaReally
4 years ago

@The Simon oLTR = Open LTR (both of you can fuck other people, with some rules etc so you both come back to eachother and don’t ditch eachother for the other people or prioritize them etc, could involve Swinging together or just separately having other people on the side), pLTR = Primary LTR like I said in the post. @The Diplomat Glad you get some value out of my writing. I’m no cult leader but every dude I can help is another step toward a better future lol I’m mostly here to add field-tested perspectives to the conversations…a lot of… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
4 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

@lh I don’t think men are violent if that’s what you where implying. @kobayashii1681 “Attention is the currency and men, a few, but growing in number, slowly, are learning to ‘control’ this currency…” The truth @Paul Thanks for sharing @Blaximus @Jay Will “So calm the fuck down and have a soda or something.” http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dRxvC3nV_ho @Yareally “a lot of guys keyboard theorize about how shit would or should work but that’s just mental masturbation if it doesn’t hold up in-field.” It’s in part why you and Rollo are so well written. You “Know” because you applied it. That brings so much… Read more »

Hugh Mann
Hugh Mann
4 years ago

@kfg – “It’s hard to tell what he (Roosh) is about because he doesn’t know.”

Oliver Cromwell – “No one rises so high as he who knows not whither he is going”

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“That’s exploring new territory in eDrama and mob-defense.”

It’s a card pulled from Vox Day’s (Mexican/Native American) basic deck, which is itself a variant of “You can’t call me anti-x because I am x.”

bnon
bnon
4 years ago

Regarding the auto-rejection thing:

I know at least one girl who perceives herself as off the chart value girl but never gets too attached (even when within a relationship) out of fear of being hurt. The kind of girl who would always say she doesn’t need a relationship and isn’t too broken when one ends because of it either. Is there some theory with how to deal with those always-at-distance women?

redlight
redlight
4 years ago

“Is there some theory with how to deal with those always-at-distance women?”

plate’em

don’t be captain save a hoe

lh
lh
4 years ago

rugby11ljh August 13th, 2015 at 7:06 pm My english is less than good, sry. I wasn’t implying you were full of hate. I thought about our fictional Roosh-Shooter. I’m not sure what you mean with me implying men are violent? I wrote about Rooshs behavior and him using the manosphere in a machiavellian way to advance his own mercantile advantage – which is in my opinion proper alpha. Even being shortsighted and grabbing for that Islam card just for the advantage in a current fight is alpha. And these things are anti-social. There is no real friendship possible there, only… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
4 years ago

Sad part of this is that we are so starved for “freedom fighters” up here that even some hard right wingers, (i.e. Ezra Levant, who has taken on the Canadian Human Rights Comission and won) is backing this clown. My favourite right wing blog up here, Small Dead Animals, though admittedly has said they had never heard of Roosh, is backing him. I just posted one of your comments under this ridiculous video on the blog Rollo, hoping to alert these guys that Roosh is a phony! I mean he closes this video with “God Bless You.’ Umm, not a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@DeNihilist

I mean he closes this video with “God Bless You.’

Trolling is a art.

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
4 years ago
DeNihilist
DeNihilist
4 years ago

Sun, don’t know if you watched the vid, but in my limited knowledge of islam , he, as Rollo suggests, may have just put himself out there as a blasphemous target. These isis thugs do not like their religion being used, especially by a lapsed muzzy.

I believe that praying to Mo is against their religion also, idols.

But I do have to admit, I had a good laugh watching the vid, and as YR has posted, it seems that these Canuck SJW’s are being intimidated by his bullshit.

Cool Shoes
Cool Shoes
4 years ago

@YaReally
I really want to thank you bro. You are the one who got me turned on to the RSD videos. They changed my life so much for the better with their message of empowerment and self improvement.

Rollo- Thank you as well. I was going through a divorce in the early days of this blog(2011), and your writings gave me a clearer understanding of male-female dynamics and helped me through many of my darker days

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kfg

It’s a card pulled from Vox Day’s (Mexican/Native American) basic deck, which is itself a variant of “You can’t call me anti-x because I am x.”

Funny thing is the black owner of one of the small businesses I worked for was the most openly racist motherfucker I’ve ever met in the corporate world. He hated blacks even more than he hated whites. It was pretty impressive.

Liz
Liz
4 years ago

“I mean he closes this video with “God Bless You.’
Umm, not a muzzy saying, that is a Christian saying, just saying….”

He said “God is great”, which is an Islamic saying. We’ve all heard it (well, usually not in person…that would be a duck, dive and cover moment).

“Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar”=
“God is great, God is great, God is great”

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . a lapsed muzzy.” That’s a somewhat complicated issue. He is not necessarily lapsed until, as an adult, he declares himself a Muslim and then recants. His tenets of Neomasculinity were rather carefully crafted to avoid invoking any particular religion, to avoid putting off any potential customers, using vague “spiritual” language. That is why invoking his Muslim background is a significant event. “I believe that praying to Mo is against their religion . . . ” Mo is an apostle, not God. The Qu’ran is purportedly the word of the angel Gabriel. That makes Mo the Muslim… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Eloh (ancient Hebrew), Alaha (ancient Aramaic), Abba (New Testament Greek) and Allah are all variants of the same Semitic word, meaning Supreme God.

God is not a biblical language word. It is, in fact, a pagan German word.

Luxocrat
Luxocrat
4 years ago

She tried though.

MikePhil
MikePhil
4 years ago

In relation to the original point of this article (not to detract from the lively discussion going on here), I’m also thinking of something I read on TRM a long while back, and it might have some relationship to this issue. Back in the “Topping from the Bottom” post, this point is made: “The Feminine Imperative defines for men that his ridiculous sexual identity is who he really is, but for women her sexual identity is a role she plays that insulates her from her real ’empowered’ identity.” So, I’m taking this to mean that when a woman defines you… Read more »

Liz
Liz
4 years ago

“God is not a biblical language word.”

It has been for about the last five centuries.

Artisanal Toad
4 years ago

Testing

Havok
Havok
4 years ago

Hey Blaximus. When you say 88’s, are you talking about white nationalists/nazis?

Havok
Havok
4 years ago

@YaReally
Roosh came up with a strategy which actually counters the left! All you have to do is say you’re muslim and suddenly you’re left alone. This shit gets weirder and weirder…

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@kfg

I posted the video of John the Other to show that even Canadian anti-SJWs can be taken in by the bullshit.

In all fairness, John the Other has generally come across as way too emotional and not all that bright in my estimation.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“It has been for about the last five centuries.”

When Mo declared that only the original is the word he wasn’t just pulling bullshit out of his ass, that time. That is actually the soundest bit of theology in Islam.

Even before it was published the King James Bible was already notorious for not saying what the Bible says.

Artisanal Toad
4 years ago

@YaReally Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Hope I’ve fleshed this out a bit more. “Polygyny (multiple wives) is the only stable form of marriage available today in the US.” I think my main issue with what I’ve seen of Polygyny is that once you sign any kind of a contract where the girl knows “it will be difficult for him to leave me”, she has no incentive to stay hot anymore. That Sister Wives guy on TV has hideous wives lol but why wouldn’t he, he can’t LEAVE any of them, esp having houses etc… Read more »

Artisanal Toad
4 years ago

@Rollo

Housekeeping help, please. I left out or broke a bold tag. In the previous comment

“If you want to call that Machiavellian, go ahead.”

Should be

If you want to call that Machiavellian, go ahead.

Would you fix that for me?

Thanks.

Artisanal Toad
4 years ago

And,

I’ll be playing with in the next few years because I’m curious about the dynamics of making that work.

Should be

I’ll be playing with in the next few years because I’m curious about the dynamics of making that work.

Sorry about that.

Artisanal Toad
4 years ago

Your html view should show you what I wrote. I left out a closing bold tag and didn’t change a closing bold tag for a closing italics tag when I reformatted.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Sun Wukong: To be even more fair, even though JtO is nominally anti-SJW, he fully accepts the tenets of Progressive Equalitarianism as his foundational philosophy and rejects anything that contradicts it, such as Evo-Psych. i.e., he is in favor of Social Justice itself, and only opposes the SJWs because they are not truly equalitarian. Blame Canada I guess. A lot of the more masculinist MGTOW are just about ready to take him out behind the woodshed and explain the facts of life to him with a good piece of hickory. There’s nothing like a good piece of hickory. Loading...

Badpainter
Badpainter
4 years ago

kfg – “God is not a biblical language word. It is, in fact, a pagan German word.”

I would argue Christianity after say about 312 AD is no longer a semitic religion but rather a Romano-Germanic faith inspired by, and rooted in Judaism. Much like when we speak of Western Civilization we mean the current Northern/Central European version stemming from a Grecco-Latin cultural/legal/philosophical/technical base which is derivative of a distinctly non-Western Egyptian/Semitic root.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

Badpainter:

And I would likely agree with most of the particulars of your argument.

Havok
Havok
4 years ago

@Rollo Tomassi
I think you’re right about Roosh. But maybe somebody can use his strategy in a different manner. Maybe play it straight instead of trolling for attention. Maybe Muslim MRAs are the future?

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Havok:

The strategy is sufficiently advanced that GamerGate has abstracted the principle in the character of Vivian James.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
4 years ago

Breaking News from Toronto :
Ayatollah Roosh issued a ‘fatwa” declaring Jihad against “white feminists” .

(white men exempted due to mutual interests ! The enemy of my enemy is my friend? For now).

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
4 years ago
Reply to  Havok

@lh
No worries brother

@Mikephil
“However, at the same time a women defines her role to be fluid in order to take advantage of changing circumstances (richer, better looking, fitter. more dominant man). Therefore, she allows her inner definition of herself to be mutable, changing as fits her story at the time.”

Nice

A Definite Beta Guy
4 years ago

That’s the future that currently exists.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
4 years ago

In the media, The Manosphere is full of religious fanatics, white supremacists, and now, crazy Muslims to complete the picture.
As they say,
With friends like these, who needs enemies.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Rollo

He’s inspiring so much indignation right now. Canada better issue a flood warning seeing as panties won’t be enough to hold back all that moisture.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

The wife getting promotions was the problem. Yeah, I think that was the case. She saw her own value as higher than the salesman she was married to, plus she was spending all her work day around men in expensive suits who projected a more powerful image than her husband. Or to put it another way, she saw her professional value and thus her MMV as suddenly higher than his, confused it with her SMV (as women often do) and developed some degree of contempt for him. Frozen out of bed, he went and found a woman who valued him… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
4 years ago

Rollo
…to women, men are monuments and women are chameleons.

That’s good. That’s very good.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
4 years ago

Sorry to say it, but, I feel schadenfreude for the unholy alliance between Roosh’s Islamic warriors and the white man’s warriors! Ugly feminists loves it too.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
4 years ago
Reply to  keyser Soze

“…to women, men are monuments and women are chameleons.” The burden of performance HAMLET: To be, or not to be–that is the question: Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune Or to take arms against a sea of troubles And by opposing end them. To die, to sleep– No more–and by a sleep to say we end The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to. ‘Tis a consummation Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep– To sleep–perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub, For in that sleep… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
4 years ago

Rollo,
Roosh mentioned in his form he was a Shiaa Muslem.
Please do search for Mutaa Marriage in Shiaa Islam. (to understand his background) .

Divided Line
4 years ago

I don’t know if Maddy is a troll or not but that post inspired the most profound sense of hopelessness in me. I don’t even know what to say. What a sick fucking joke our species is. Somebody just burn the whole festering mess to the ground already.

Divided Line
4 years ago

@fleezer

“don’t legally invest in her unless you know for certain that you own her.”

You’ll never own anybody, so really, there’s no point in legally investing ever, not in any instance. I don’t know why you’d want to own anybody anyway. I’d settle for just finding somebody who is a relatively decent human being. Apparently that’s too much to ask for though. Oh well.

Liz
Liz
4 years ago

“I don’t know if Maddy is a troll or not but that post inspired the most profound sense of hopelessness in me. I don’t even know what to say.”

Maddy might not even be a girl. And if she is, she is a very disturbed one.

Liz
Liz
4 years ago

“And if she is, she is a very disturbed one.”
Or just making stuff up to fuck with everyone. Which would also mean she is disturbed, but in a different way.

Softek
Softek
4 years ago

@ Divided Don’t let your cynicism get the best of you. It doesn’t matter if Maddy is a troll or not. There are plenty of women who are Alpha Widows. The cynicism and hatred/disgust comes — ultimately — from a sense of rejection. Before I was unplugged, here’s one example from my own experience: I had ONE-itis, and I was an angry mess. Friendzoned myself with this girl (I thought she friendzoned me, but friendzoning is something you do to yourself through how you interact with women)…and would work myself into a lather. Her ex boyfriend, who she was absolutely… Read more »

enrique432
enrique432
4 years ago

Rollo, I am one of the few Muslims (Sufi), that I know of, that routinely reads and posts on Dalrock, here and ROK. I like all of you and I have no idea about any backstory of Rooshes failings or issues, and I am long-married so I do not do the PUA stuff. Been RP since my divorce years ago (and subsequent remarriage). However, I will say, what Roosh is doing is a perfect inversion of political correctness that even when presented as almost farcical, will have leverage within SJW and Canadian government circles. SJWs have no idea how to… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“I have no idea what game he is playing under, under, underNEATH all this . . .”

Fear.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“What a sick fucking joke our species is.”

Our species is the only species that can even think that. Think about it.

Then go out and examine the behaviour of other species. Start with ants. You will find that the religion you don’t like that you are trying to build doesn’t like them very much.

Then . . . lions, tigers and bears (Oh my!), only reverse the order.

Liz
Liz
4 years ago

“Then . . . lions, tigers and bears (Oh my!), only reverse the order.”

And fishes. The largest ones, if they were capable of higher level thought processes, might be thinking something along the lines of, “The world is just”. And the middle sized fishes would think, “Sometimes the world is just”. And the small fishes would be thinking, “the world is not just.”

Divided Line
4 years ago

@softek “It’s hurting you. With cynicism and disgust as a mental point of origin, it’ll only make it that much harder to get what you really want.” You’re definitely right about cynicism being a self defeating defense mechanism. I just don’t think that what I really want even exists. It’s a matter of trying to get past that. If I look at what it was that I was chasing all these years in my relationships with women and subject it to a red pill critical appraisal, it becomes a laughable, trite, and corny Disney movie fantasy. Real world women aren’t… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

I was concentrating on the social behaviour within the species and particularly between the sexes. Among the fish I would look at salmon and seahorses.

Salmon are one of the species that I’ve mentioned that don’t even know they have children, and eat their own. The big fish is “mommy.”

Divided Line
4 years ago

@Rollo The most difficult thing about it, for me anyway, is that it seems like much of my identity is wrapped up in blue pill fantasy. I can’t even separate out who I am from it. The worst part is I don’t dislike myself, and maybe that’s what you mean by nobility. It just leaves me bitter and continuously resenting women for not being attracted to what I always thought they should be attracted to. I’m pretty sure that’s classic AFC thinking and I realize it’s dumb as hell, but I keep catching myself getting mired in thoughts like those… Read more »

Softek
Softek
4 years ago

@ Divided Line YaReally mentioned the Black Dragon Blog. I’d never heard of it before, but have been checking it out since he mentioned it. I highly recommend you check it out, along with YaReally’s archives. Really good stuff. I’m thinking about buying the book The Unchained Man, but until then I’m just checking out everything on the Black Dragon blog to get a feel for it. The Blue Pill fantasy is a LOT of guys’ identities. Especially guys from broken homes/dysfunctional families. What helped me a lot was getting friendzoned and rejected a lot of times. It pissed me… Read more »

Softek
Softek
4 years ago

@ Divided Line Also notice any resistance that comes up when you imagine yourself as an Alpha, whatever that means to you. What makes you uncomfortable about it? You CAN see yourself that way. It’s just that it doesn’t feel like you — it doesn’t feel like it’s achievable. Watch some porn and imagine some girl you’re into. Imagine that you’re the guy and she’s the girl. Transpose the images in your mind. It can feel a little weird, but only in proportion to how much of your sexuality you’ve repressed, and how many issues you have that’re keeping you… Read more »

Softek
Softek
4 years ago

FYI, the modality is called Faster EFT. I’ve used it with great success and highly recommend it for stubborn emotional attachments to Blue Pill thought patterns. As soon as you feel the resentment coming up, you’ll have a skill set to deal with it. The magic question is “How do you know?” How do you know you feel resentment? Where do you feel it in your body? Do you have memories or images or anything in your mind to support this feeling of resentment that you have? How do you know you have it? Lock on to whatever it is.… Read more »

Divided Line
4 years ago

@softek “And all you have to do is get one or two experiences being treated as an Alpha on a sexual level, and then the picture gets very clear.” I’ve had sexual interest from women like that in the past here and there. I’m not sure how I generated it, but maybe that’s a good place to start trying to figure out how to go about it. “Part of the hard part is men have been shamed so much too. Is it really nobility? Or is part of you still deeply ashamed of your base sexual urges as a man?… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
4 years ago
Reply to  Divided Line

Self surgery If an undertaking was easy, someone else already would have done it. If you follow in another’s footsteps, you miss the problems really worth solving. Excellence is born of preparation,dedication,focus,and tenacity; compromise on any of these and you become average. Every so often, life presents a great moment of decision, an intersection at which a man must decide to stop or go; a person lives with these decisions forever. Examine everything; not all is as it seems or as people tell you. It is easiest to live with a decision if it is based on an earnest sense… Read more »

Softek
Softek
4 years ago

@ Divided That’s what I’ve been doing — settling. It is a miserable way to go through your sex life, whether that means extremely long dry spells with no sex at all, or occasional sex with girls you aren’t even that attracted to or don’t actually find hot. All the PUA stuff is reverse-engineered from what “Naturals” do. When I hooked up with that girl on New Year’s, I knew what I was doing. If I think hard about it, it gets too convoluted and is like “How did I do that?” But I know what I did. Lots of… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago
rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
4 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

@Softek
“It’s not really what you do, as far as I know — it’s how you do it. ”

That’s red pill gold it’s not just science it’s evidence of social interaction.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
4 years ago

@Divided Line Totally get all you’re saying here. Grief at the death of your Blue Pill view of the world can take a while to get past. Don’t get frustrated, I still fight it here and there. It’s persistent. Hell dude, you’ve been programmed with it for how many decades now? It was three and a half for me. Half a human lifetime. How do you expect to get past that immediately, you know? It’s a process, and you’ll find yourself having to cut out little bits of it for a while. I don’t know, it’s just difficult to imagine… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
4 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

@Sun Wukong “You can’t imagine a guy whose experiences you’ve not had yet, you know? It would require knowing things before you know them. Doesn’t make any sense, does it?” That was the best way to describe trauma and the imposition of control and the freedom of what the red pill is at its most basic level. I always knew about the red pill. Didn’t know it was called that but my conditioning was intense and enforced with force of people who didn’t care for my own well being but their own. One main reason I looked out for a… Read more »

bob bitchin
bob bitchin
4 years ago

too many diatribes in the comment section. Roosh has disarmed the sjw’s in canada and forewarned canadian border services that to deny him entry is ‘discrimination’. he is now a sacred ow and cannot be killed. very clever. he is, however, playing with fire (he fought fire with fire) . he will get burned. he may be martyring himself-he is a shia -but i doubt it. witb roosh it always seems to come back to 2 issues: he grew up brown in america (resentful), he suceeded as a potential provider (career in microbiology) yet women fucked hime around (resentment). i… Read more »

Havok
Havok
4 years ago

bob bitchin is kinda right. If men stand up for themselves they’re treated like shit. If they are quiet they’re treated like shit. Might as well go out fighting.

Shiva
Shiva
4 years ago

“much as women have been a pain in my ass, i still like them, enjoy talking to them (even when they reveal an inferior intellect) and enjoy fuckng them.”

Women don’t have inferior intellect, they have inferior emotional quotient.
Their intellect just auto-shuts down, because they like to feel more than they think.

bob bitchin
bob bitchin
4 years ago

when i say inferior intellect what i mean is this: if how you feel or think (ideology, etc.) prevents a rational analysis then ur inferior. further, if you cant see the connections i illustrate: ditto. Women and men think differently. After attending two top universities (one in canada and one in the u.s.a.) i can say this with complete confidence: women are inferior intellectually. They comply with authority and are perfect worker drones as they are xtremely acepting of hierarchy and groupthink. LLC’s eat that shit up. i am an outlier. You dont want to know my i.q. ( measured… Read more »

Havok
Havok
4 years ago

Victory in Toronto! Fuckin’ A. I can’t believe he pulled it off. Roosh is no angel but damn. We won this round! Just bought Bang Iceland. Completely useless for me but Roosh earned my 10 bucks.

trackback

[…] Mrs.Submission is online now   Quote Quick Reply post #60 of 60 (permalink) Old Today, 07:25 PM jsmart Member   Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 209 Re: 17 Years wife cheated and I'm lost….. Quote: Originally Posted by CipherClosed View Post I appreciate the kind words and feedback. Now i'm debating what to tell her about my health issues. She knows that they found a nodule, but I lied to her about my PSA levels. They are a lot higher than what I told her they were. I didn't want her to have sympathy for me because… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
4 years ago

Divided Line – I’ve been exactly where you are now. I’ve even said “I don’t want to fuck tons of women…” And for the record I still haven’t. You don’t HAVE to spin plates, but frankly I can see how it speeds up the grieving/anger phase a bit. As to who your Red Pill self is: don’t sweat it right now. Pick some goals and start working. Momentum builds and at some point you’ll realize you are making progress and feeling good, and then you can re-evaluate with a better frame of mind. This never ends. There is no end… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

Ted, what’s going on with J4G?

teddj4g
teddj4g
4 years ago

ASD – nothing much. Considering shuttering it to reuse the hosting plan for something music related. In short, I concluded guys like Rollo do a better job at blogging this stuff and tossing my hat in the ring doesn’t necessarily add value. I kept it around for the other “guys” but everyone is too busy living to write much. I do better out here in the weeds kinda sniping from the sidelines. I don’t have the patience Rollo does to suffer fools, and there’s enough smart guys commenting that I rarely have original content to add. It was cool while… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
4 years ago
Reply to  teddj4g

@teddj4g
“My frame will never be perfect, but it will always be mine. And its awesome enough to share with my wife, on my terms.”
When reading that I think of the phrase.

Because I am a man.

MikePhil
MikePhil
4 years ago

Rollo –

“To women, men are monuments and women are chameleons.” As always, you reduce the argument to its purest state. Thanks for the final definitive word.

ace
ace
4 years ago

“Divorce and infidelity are amplified in the U.S. because of our subservient obedience to the Feminine Bullshit Imperative. That is driven by Media in all it’s forms, smartphones – tablets – and oldschool Pc’s, personal transportation, etc. etc. etc….. ” This is one of the reasons Saudis don’t allow women to drive. Once saw a clip with a Saudi Muslim cleric where he said (paraphrasing): “If we allow women to drive cars fornication and divorce will become widespread”. I used to think that this type of thinking was nothing short of insane…now i must say i’m starting to see where… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
4 years ago

If Hypergamy is fundamentally rooted in doubt (which I have no disagreement with), then what is the male equivalent rooted in? Is there even a male equivalent to what is presented in this post? OT: A friend recommended Shakespeares “Taming of the Shrew” to me recently. I had missed this particular bit of Shakespeare. I went out and watched the 1967 version with Elizabeth Taylor. I found the dialogue to be uncomplicated and generationally naive. However, I was struck by the alpha behavior of Petruchio in the story. The man approaches the notion of wooing this woman that no man… Read more »

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