The Quick Fix

quick_fix

Becoming the Captain of My Boat dropped this comment in the This is now thread (emphasis mine):

You know, I found the RP about a year and a half ago. I’ve been working on applying things to my life, and for the most part things are going well.

Most of the articles though are about what to avoid, what to look out for, or how to think about women when you’re in your 20’s. The difficult thing is now being aware and seeing it all around you and being married.

I see the Sandberg quote, I hear it all the time from women in one form or another, and then my wife says similar shit. Like she dated the assholes, or had to find herself. Now I’m like, shit, I’m the nice guy she married. I don’t want to be that guy.
I was the asshole in college, what the fuck happened to me and how do I fix it quick? But there is no quick, once you’re in this it’s an uphill battle, a necessary one, but an uphill battle none the less.

I read the Rational Male, I’ve read a number of the books, but it get’s tricky when you’re already in it.

My wife isn’t a terrible person, and I can see firsthand how all this applies to her, but she isn’t malicious. This is subconscious shit reinforced by all their surroundings. Hell, my own betaization was subconscious shit reinforced by my surroundings.

I can say without a doubt that if your’e not already in a LTR or married and you’re younger than 30-35 don’t get in one. Read this stuff, make yourself a better man, fuck around and “find yourself” then you can get into a LTR, because it’s much harder to take control of a ship and right the course with your now demoted wife psychologically kicking and screaming than it is to captain a boat from the get go and then find a hot, willing first mate along the way when you’re already a seasoned salty captain.

He can only speak for himself of course, but Captian’s situation is not an uncommon one. Far too many men discover too late that the great relationship they swore they had with their wives was founded on their having fulfilled a Blue Pill set of achievements.

This belief is part of the plan Hypergamy had intended for him to follow, but as women’s sexual strategy has become more visible (if not outright flaunted) to him he begins to see the code in the Matrix he’s been a willing participant of. The machinations of Hypergamy are unignorable, or soon will be, but it’s one thing to be single and young enough to be able to leverage that plan to your own benefit when you still have the options and maneuverability to do so – it’s quite another to become aware of your own participation in it once you’re committed legally, emotionally and familially to going along with the plan.

For men, one of the more unfortunate consequences of Open Hypergamy is the degree of comfort their wives have in revealing the part their husbands play(ed) in their sexual strategy. As I’ve mentioned in prior posts, in a previous social order it was simply a matter of course that women should keep the mechanics of Hypergamy secret from the men they paired with in the long term.

Amongst themselves women were (and are) very open and frank about their sexual exploits both in the short term sexual and the long term provisional. I’ve always been convinced that women’s insistence on proliferating the trope of men’s “locker room talk” or ‘Humble-Bragging’ about their sexual conquests is a distraction from their own peer clutch groups congratulating themselves on the successes of their sexual strategy.

In a prior social climate keeping these ‘hen house’ Hypergamous revelations to themselves made sense. There was little point to informing the men they depended upon for parental investment and security that they were really the best available option to be their means to an end.

Not so in the present social climate. There is an eager brazenness on the part of wives to openly explain the part their husbands play(ed) in her Hypergamy. I’d attribute most of this to a social climate that encourages women to believe they have nothing to lose by doing so, but there’s also a want to participate (even if vicariously) in the single-woman peer clutch that has openly embraced revealing the ins and outs of Hypergamy publicly.

It’s a rough transition for men to have their Blue Pill idealisms dispelled by the Red Pill community, but it’s far more devastating for men steeped in Blue Pill merit badge accomplishments to have their wives openly confirm what the Red Pill aware have been trying to awaken him to for some time.

Open Hypergamy isn’t just a game for single women; it’s made its way into contemporary marriages. It’s now part of the egalitarian equalist expectation of men in marriage – that in order for men to truly be men worthy of marrying a co-equal ‘modern woman’ he must dispense with any notion of ownership of her, forgive the worst of her Hypergamous indiscretions as part of her “finding herself” and then accept his role as the Plan B, Beta provider for her in the nick of time to help her fulfill her sexual strategy in the long term. All of this coming with no expectation of any reciprocal value on a woman’s part – in fact to believe so is tantamount to marital rape.

I see the Sandberg quote, I hear it all the time from women in one form or another, and then my wife says similar shit. Like she dated the assholes, or had to find herself. Now I’m like, shit, I’m the nice guy she married. I don’t want to be that guy.

I was the asshole in college, what the fuck happened to me and how do I fix it quick? But there is no quick, once you’re in this it’s an uphill battle, a necessary one, but an uphill battle none the less.

This is the revelation men in this situation find themselves in. Even the men who may have fulfilled the role of “a great living dildo” for women in their 20s can still find that their role may have shifted to that of ‘non-threatening relationship material guy’ who she’d never have sex with on the same night she met him.

Now granted, all of this comes back to the subconscious expectation of cuckoldry women place on the men they cast in the passive, supportive role. Women don’t expect the Beta Bucks men they pair with will ever be the Alpha Fucks men their biochemistry predisposes them to want to fuck. But ‘great Dad’ must believe he was chosen as her best option, her best choice for the balance of the two. Only later, once she’s consolidated on him with family, children, financial and professional liabilities to her, is she comfortable in letting him in on how the game was really played.

As I said, the truth of that is hard enough to hear from Red Pill writers on the internet, but to have it viscerally confirmed by a wife without the social filters of an older social climate is a much harder pill to swallow than the red one.

The Fix is In

That sounds like an awful lot of gloom and doom doesn’t it? I can’t speak for Captain, but a woman delivering the confirmation that a guy is really a Blue Pill consolation prize is rarely couched in so melodramatic and sinister delivery. I’ve had many men (mostly disillusioned husbands from MMSL) relate similar stories as Captain’s and none of them were screaming confessions of deceit on the part of their wives. Most were simply matter of fact comments in passing that aligned with their suspicions about themselves.

I hate to harp on Pixar’s Inside Out cartoon, but it’s the simple everyday open Hypergamy that goes unnoticed by Blue Pill idealists. It takes a Red Pill lens to even be sensitive to it, but when you see how casually the wife/mother in this movie fantasizes about her widowed Alpha, the Alpha fantasy she couldn’t consolidate on, and how frustrated she is every time her Beta husband fails a shit test, you begin to understand the passive nature of an overt Hypergamy in women.

Women get frustrated that Blue Pill men Just Don’t Get It. The Blue Pill idealism blinds them to having the insight needed to realize the role they’re supposed to play and the frustration comes from their being over-supportive and over-engaging in order to make things right for their women. Blue Pill men will graciously ‘play equal’ in their marriages in order to live up to the equalist goal-set they were taught would pay off for them for a lifetime if left uncheck or unchallenged.

It’s my belief that wives will use a married form of open, or certainly casually overt, revelations of Hypergamy in order to rouse a man to a Red Pill awareness in the hopes that he’ll Just Get It.

And to answer the inevitable question, yes, this is a meta-scale shit test on the part of wives. However, it’s important remember that Hypergamy is rooted in existential and life-security doubt for women – “Is he really the best I can do?” – and that the shit tests associated with this vary depending on the influences of a woman’s phase of maturity as well as which part of her menstrual cycle she happens to be in.

Revealing the machinations of Hypergamy to a husband has potentially disastrous consequences, or at least it used to. As I said before, women generally don’t sprout horns and a forked tail and say “Ha ha, sucker!” when they reveal Hypergamy; it’s usually a casual inference. If a Blue Pill husband isn’t Getting It about his participation in women sexual strategy from outside means (media, social networks) then the passive or overt shit tests about his awareness of it need to be implemented.

In a previous social order making men aware of this could just as likely result in a woman being divorced or ostracized socially. Today, in men’s never ending quest to satisfy “equalism’s” approval, men are less likely to even believe their role when a woman confirms it for them. Ego-investments meets cognitive dissonance. Not only does he not get it his ego refuses to get it.

This then is the pathetic state of 80%+ of contemporary men. Men so inured by Blue Pill conditioned idealism that they’ll entertain ‘open marriages‘ in order to make themselves ‘better husbands‘ according to an emasculated equalist ideal.

Help! Quick!

So now we come to a situation like Captains – one where that husband Just Gets It only he’s gotten the message, received the awareness, from his wife (either passively or overtly) and he’s both pissed off at his state and equally wants to improve it. I expect most men would advise Cap to sack up and dump that bitch; and they’d probably be right in that assessment. She was duplicitous and then felt so self-assured in her position (reinforced by feminine primary social influences) that she was comfortable in revealing it to him. What’s he gonna do about it, right?

The right answer is to preemptively detonate the marriage. When you consider he’ll be cast in the role of villain no matter who files for divorce (he’s an asshole, or he’s the asshole who couldn’t meet her needs) why not, right? Any kids, any family discord, certainly the financial liabilities, should all be small shrift, collateral damage, when we look at this in terms of justice. It’s just revenge for her double-cross.

And yet that’s not what the vast majority of men in Cap’s situation first consider. Their first thought is “How do I fix this? I’ve lost Frame! How do I get it back fast! Help?” For all of the duplicity inherent in Hypergamy, for all of the insult that comes from a wife confirming he’s her Beta ‘sure thing’ (not the ‘hawt’ college asshole), that guy still wants to make lemonade from lemons, knowing full well she deserves piss.

That husband wants to still be all things, the mythical Good Guy balance, to his wife. There’s something in men’s romantic natures that wants this to work for themselves and in spite of women who fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate it.

The first question I think men in this situation need to confront is whether it’s worth the effort to attempt to change their wives’ impression of them. If you’re 35 and (should be) entering your SMV peak years, this open Hypergamy revelation is particularly tough to accept since it’s likely you’ve invested 7-8 years in a woman who’s just told you what you are to her (and confirming it’s not who you are that’s of primary importance to her). As I’ve stated many times before, going from a Beta character to an Alpha (or more Alpha) one is always an uphill battle:

How many of the simpering, socially conditioned, Betatized men these women seeth about would make for believable Alphas once they had a red pill epiphany? It is precisely because of this impressionistic, binary solipsism that women will never be happy with ‘fixing’ their Beta. This is why he has to Just Get It on his own.

It is a far better proposition to impress a woman with an organic Alpha dominance – Alpha can only be a man’s dominant personality origin. There is no Beta with a side of Alpha because that side of Alpha is NEVER believable when your overall perception is one of being Beta to begin with. This is why I stress Alpha traits above all else. It’s easy, and endearing to ‘reveal’ a flash of Beta sensitivity when a woman perceives you as predominantly Alpha. If your personality is predominantly Beta, any sporadic flashes of Alpha will seem like emotional tantrums at best, character flaws at worst.

Women may love the Beta, but they only respect the Alpha.

That’s not to say a real transformation isn’t possible, but rather it’s a question of whether the juice will ever be worth the squeeze. There is no ‘quick fix’, no magical formula that will reverse Frame to your favor. Even if you won the lottery tomorrow, you’d still be a Beta with more money to your openly Hypergamous wife now. Frame establishment (not re-establishment if you never had it to begin with) takes time and active, practicable Red Pill awareness.

As I was telling Goldmund in my interview, that awareness needs to become a man’s internalized nature. He needs to become his own self-important mental point of origin; that and a Red Pill aware nature take time to develop. Anyone telling you they have a ‘one-size-fits-all’ Red Pill solution that ‘guarantees results in your marriage’ is selling you something.

I say they’re selling you something because of one simple truth – no quick fix that could make you seem more Alpha, more like the asshole college guy your wife loved to fuck back in the day will ever be believable to her if it happens overnight. On a root, hindbrain level, your Beta designation was set for your wife when she was having her Epiphany Phase. She knows and is comfortable with what she expects your nature and your character to be.

As I illustrated in Archetypes , women need consistency in behavior – they expect you to be Beta and are so comfortable in that assessment that they feel no guilt and have no fear in revealing to you the role you play for her. Thus, any radical shift in that comfort doesn’t seem genuine, and in fact it seems childish that you wont accept your designation.

So, is it worth it? I think my advice in this instance would be this:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

Once your wife has openly revealed your part in the plan, you’ve effectively broken up. Logistically that may not be the case, but I think most guys need to see this for what it is; a rejection of a husband’s authority, masculinity, his decisiveness and his capacity to read the nuances in behavior and a society that’s been (sometimes literally) screaming to him to Just Get It.

Your wife’s garbage can was dragged to the curb by your wife’s admissions, only the trash truck never comes for it because you’re committed to that can staying on the curb until you walk away from it. If you go digging through it to find what you think is valuable, prepare to get real dirty and look for a long time.

You’ve effectively been ‘friend zoned’ in your marriage. You may still have sex, you may still share special moments, but never forget, her confessions make you ‘just a friend’ in your marriage.

 


*Standard disclaimer: Yes, men should forego marriage altogether and/or stringently vet women for virginity, homemaking and childrearing. Importing wives from third world countries is duly noted. Rollo Tomassi has been married for 19 years to a magical unicorn he found after being a semi-pro rock star and lives an idyllic life of riches and extravagance. NAWALT. Your milage may vary. See dealer for details.

542 comments

  1. Re-read the speech and I think I have my answer… Eskimo ‘horn rimmed, Hollywood producer’ = Jew. Those sneaky FK’in Eskimos!

  2. @anonymous

    “When they allow the jews to show in every movie, TV show and commercial, miscegenation, with our beautiful women of European descent always mating with Africans, that is being a traitor to this nation.”

    Just like beta nice boys are invisible to women, the vast majority of non-alpha black men are invisible to you.
    European descent women only go after the alpha cream of black people over the beta residue of white people.
    The Beta residue amongst the blacks in America are so disproportionately affected that they have been the first people in the entire world have gone
    MGTOW wholesale.
    At least 60-70% of white men in US might be procreating. Amongst black I doubt if more than 35% of black americans ever have their own genetic kid.

    “Yet the white men of our nation, the bedrock who built this great nation, face nothing but mockery and hatred every minute of their waking lives, every single fucking place they go or look, both on TV, in movies, on the internet and in real life, in the office, and in the streets. Our women have been taught to see good, decent men who simply want to be fathers and husbands, as unattractive.”

    Yes, your white ancestors built this nation on the grave of the native american societies and civilization.
    Treaty over treaty was broken by GOTUS with the Native American Indians. Even the 5 civilized tribes were dispossessed of their estates and holding at the whim of the GOTUS. All this after once there was unrestricted only white immigration into these lands.
    From the handful of eastern coastal areas GOTUS spread their nation like wild fire into the Iroquois lands, right up to the Pacific.

    Welcome to Karma. As Jesus said “You live by Sword , you die by Sword” and “You reap as you sow”

  3. Has this site also attracted the right wing neo Nazi type that seems to have become part of Roosh’s and Heartiste’s site. I have stopped reading their sites because of the constant articles on why one race is inferior and the other (mostly white men) isn’t. I came to this site to read about intergender relations not inter racial. I have to commend Rollo for avoiding it. I am not sure how the Republican debate, police shooting unarmed citizens (blacks) (which isn’t red pill) or Eskimos are related to this thread.

  4. @Cool,
    “Has this site also attracted the right wing neo Nazi type that seems to have become part of Roosh’s and Heartiste’s site. I have stopped reading their sites because of the constant articles on why one race is inferior and the other (mostly white men) isn’t. I came to this site to read about intergender relations not inter racial. I have to commend Rollo for avoiding it. I am not sure how the Republican debate, police shooting unarmed citizens (blacks) (which isn’t red pill) or Eskimos are related to this thread.”

    Nope, Rollo keeps it very open. Hardly, any moderation.
    We have had weirder female commenters than that guy.
    It is also possible he is a paid troll to fire up passions and trump up Trump.
    Race is the least bit of concern for most posters here.

  5. @Shiva H.P.
    Great response. Funny some of these neo-Nazi types talk down about black men. Yet black men have lost their lives because little snow flake lied about being raped. Yet these neo Nazis claim the white man is under attack? And you claim you’re an alpha?

  6. Feel free to pull my mistake of a reply, I didn’t read far enough down before responding.

  7. YaReally – OT practical query (no spergo): re your recent focus (heh) on intense eye contact at RM and CH

    agree on the importance and utility, but when you are really close face to face, you can’t look into “eyes” because you have two and function of stereoscopic eye focus is on one point to add depth perception – switch one to the other – keep your distance so you can look at both?

    you must know what im talking about – stereoscopic vision doesn’t lend itself to intense eye contact up close – and yeah, i know, at some point you kiss close, but not talking about that

  8. Fleezer:

    “its all transitory”

    Fair enough – my post wasn’t meant as a direct response or disagreement to yours, just to aelorne – to get out of his head and enjoy the moment or next and look for LTR material

    All I really wanted was breakfast

  9. “stereoscopic vision doesn’t lend itself to intense eye contact up close”

    How close? My close in focus used to be about 4″ now it’s out to 18″. Less than 4″ I get double vision. A 4″ gap is pretty damn close, especially with someone you just met.

  10. BP – that’s what I’m talking about – even at 18″, you’re looking at one eye or the other – you can’t really stare into a woman’s “eyes,” because you have two that focus on a particular point

    hell, this is starting to sound very spergy – swear, no spergo

  11. “Eye contact” is a metaphor. I do not advise literal eye contact.

    Ergo, it doesn’t matter if she appears as nothing but a blur to you, or if you’re actually looking at something just behind her left ear. It is her perception of the interaction that is important.

  12. key -“…even at 18″, you’re looking at one eye or the other – you can’t really stare into a woman’s ‘eyes,’…”

    No. You can’t. I can but it’s blurry now. At 12’ or less I focus on her right eye with my left (I’m left eye dominant) and ignore my right.

    I have friends with kids and staring contests are great for figuring these technical issues.

  13. Lol. Locking eyes with a girl is instinctive if you’re vibing strongly with her. Like you get tunnel vision or something.

    If your eyes are darting between focal points you’re not into it. And she can probably tell. This sort of thing is hard to fully fake, the real skill is learning how to actually get yourself ‘in state’ so you are into it.

    Once it’s happened to you a few times naturally, you get the feel for it.

  14. Seriously!!!
    Westerners clean shave off your facial hair and shave off your chest hair and still do not think these 2 activities as effeminate.
    And you guys are whining about a young men changing their hairstyles a bit and putting slightly feminine clothes.

    Need I remind the Europeans nobles, courtesans as well as common gentlemen in the society in the post Renaissance society,
    1. applying tonnes of powder on their faces along with red makeup on cheeks
    2. Wearing weird costumes with feminine artifacts and embroidaries
    3. To top it of, wear a grey/white wig.

    Man, I always used to wonder were they men or were they effeminate clowns.

    Even this will pass away.

  15. I wouldn’t be surprised if something not consciously controllable, such as the interocular angle, was changing in that sort of circumstance. Like how you can’t control if your voice shakes or if your pupil dilate based upon mood.

  16. Much of what we think of as feminine style is actually masculine style that the FI has usurped over the past 300 years or so, particularly since the late 1800s.

    Women started carrying purses to show that they had masculine control over money and weren’t beholden to a man.

    The suffragettes started wearing pink as a display of masculine strength (although it was that of a boy, not a man).

    The flappers started wearing their skirts above the knee. It isn’t skirts that are feminine, it is long skirts. They signify that others do your labor for you (and so also tend to be adopted by city dwelling priests, bureaucrats and the aristocracy who are not also warriors, metrosexuality has history all the way back to ancient Egypt). Pants are, however, innately masculine, although traditionally considered barbarous; they were worn by the wild woodsman of the Germanic tribes and the Asian cavalry hordes. Women usurped pants in the 60s, so now, for a man to appear differentiated from most women he can do it best by – wearing a skirt.

  17. From Bloomberg article: ” And consumer habits about gender traditions are getting broken down at younger and younger ages—a new string of startups are attempting to obliterate the barriers between clothes that are designed for young boys vs. those designed for young girls. In 10 years, a college student’s idea of what is “masculine” or “feminine” clothing is likely to be drastically different. ”

    Oooohhhhh getthefuckouttahere!!!!

    Consumer habits are getting ” broken down at younger and younger ages…”

    This is that shit right there. Who is doing the ” breaking “???

    Like Rollo, I have a teenage daughter at this very moment. I also have a 30 yo and a 27 yo. So I’ve been on this bf ride for a while now. Add to that my 6 God Daughters. The feminine dude thing has driven me mad for a long time. Also, add to that the shiftless thug thing and I’m practically hopeless for many ” males ” growing into manhood(?) these days.

    But this is a symptom of a much larger problem society has right now.

    The FI has successfully shut down so many avenues of masculinity, that we all are left with this apparent gender confusion bullshit. And media is always first in line to trumpet in the newest sad assed craze. Some portions of Madison Avenue advertising sectors need to be hit with multiple hellfire missiles asap.

    Just for shits and giggles, what’s gonna happen to our society 10-20 years from now? What if…China decides that they want large swaths of Central and North America, and they make moves accordingly?

    In 20 years at our current rate of decline, who the fuck is gonna stop them? We won’t be able to ” drone ” our way out of every problem. At some point, some bad ass soldiers have gotta get boots on the ground and do some invader repelling. Are these skinny jean/Lace wearing bitches going to be able to get the job done, or will I have to drag my then 74 year old ass out of my lawn chair and go defend the nation?

    I have watched a steady stream of potential suitors for my daughter show up at my door. Some aren’t that bad. Some are unidentifiable as males without DNA confirmation. The latest is an avid sportsman. I tolerate him fairly well. Lately he has changed his hairstyle to some kind of poofy, wavey thing right outta 1985. This has earned him never-ending ball-busting on my part, until the offending light-in-the-loafers hairdo is banished from his head.

    When I was growing up, the males in my family kind of put you through learning stages. You had to learn to be competitive. You had to learn not to cry and bitch when you didn’t get your way. You had to learn not to be a lying, cheating son of a bitch. This was usually completed by age 12. In my family in particular, you had to learn to grow food in a garden, and all of my cousins and I had to learn to kill and butcher an animal. On my 13th birthday I was given a 150 pound hog to slaughter. It took me all damn day, but all of my uncles and great uncles were there to guide me through it.

    We had to learn basic carpentry and tool usage. We had to learn basic mechanical skills. We had to learn how to fight. We also had to learn how to get along with other men.

    The young men I am presented with today don’t know how to do anything at all, and they are perfectly happy with that. A few of my God children came over my house for some pool time and a barbeque. Fellas, I had 2 giant gas grilles and 2 smokers going full blast, and not one of the 6 or so young men had any interest what-so-ever in checking out the culinary hijinks that were unfolding. They all just sat around inside waiting on the girls to direct them What. The. Actual. Fuck.

    They cant do anything.

    One guy, age 23, who had a brand new hemi Daytona that costs more than my last 2 cars combined, was struggling to mount his front license plate. I came out to observe him using zip ties to mount the tag. I wanted to slap the taste out of his mouth. I installed his tag correctly, but I talked massive amounts of shit about him the entire time. I tried to chat him up about Hemi’s, but he had no interest. ” Hemi ” to him, was the little nameplate in the fender that denoted ” expensive “.

    The FI will reap what it sows. Unfortunately, we will all pay the price in the end. Who is gonna rebuild this crumbling country? Will everything requiring muscle and balls have to be outsourced to an immigrant population?

    Sorry. This is a sore spot subject. I tend to get worked up about it. I am fortunate to have known 90% of the men I’ve met and learned from in my lifetime. I have volumes of respect for the abilities of men. This loss is unfathomable to me.

  18. “They cant do anything.”

    A young man, about 20 or so, came over to my house asking if I had a screwdriver. “Sure,” I said, “What for?”

    He showed me a part he wanted to remove from his bicycle.

    It was held on by a bolt.

  19. @Rollo… wtf… When you first commented about the men your daughter is meeting I thought that my problem was my age separation from men in their 20s at this point. That link confirms it, I apparently have no idea how much further the rabbit hole got tunneled out after I left.

    Of course, you did say your daughter is a model. So unfortunately she’s throwing herself into a bad industry to look for a masculine man. I feel her pain, engineering/science is a bad place to look for a feminine woman.

  20. OT…

    If you wanted to see graphically just how/why men are priced out of the marketplace of fatherhood….

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/07/WelfareState1.png

    Look closely at that data… A single woman pulling in a relatively easy $12 an hour gets enough government subsidy for being a single mother to effectively make $60,000+ a year *after taxes*, which can easily amount to $80,000 a year or more depending on municipality (though in fairness, subsidies also vary by municipality as do living expenses). Even a two-parent, single-income home will have significant trouble coming up with that level of income.

    If we take away the subsidized programs, we stop subsidizing single single motherhood, and we force women back to the bargaining table w.r.t. fatherhood. Women are pragmatic creatures, so when the fuck up they play on men’s idealism like a fiddle, convincing hordes of white knights that their mistakes are worthy of public funding to make up for.

  21. I don’t think single motherhood should be subsidized, but that graph *science* is crazy inaccurate, or else every single mom would be insane not to move to Cook County. Anyone who’s seen or knows people collecting assistance knows that they in no way live like someone earing 60,000 dollars a year. Sigh…. hyperbole doesn’t help fix the real problem. The data doesn’t explain the story on the ground in most cases. Too much money is being funneled into the dependency industry, but no one can remain ” poor ” on 60,000 dollars a year.

    People I’ve KNOWN of welfare live in shitty, subsidized housing that looks more like jail cells. They get approx. 2-3 hundred dollars a month for food, depending on the number of children they have.

    People have a misconception that folks are living it up being lazy freeloaders. I hope that all assistance will vanish one day, but not because anyone is living high on the hog on my dime. The dependency state is a really fucked up way to live, and only ever promotes more dependency for generations to come. It’s evil.

  22. … oh yeah, the only folks I’ve seen make out like bandits in welfaria are the folks that own the apartments and houses that are paid by the state to house recipients. I once saw the state of New Jersey pay 1,800 bucks a week to put recipients up in a hotel room. A shitty hotel at that. And the state filled that hotel to capacity at those bullshit rates for over a year.

  23. @Shiva – While I loathe the ignorant, ankle biting, vile racists here as well, you have to get over your burning hatred/jealousy of the West and whites.

    Native Americans – No primitive, pre-industrial society could resist the encroachment of western, modern powers. Your own nation of origin is a testament to that. They are lucky we didn’t exterminate them like most other people did in the pre-20th century world – that was the norm. I also love when people talk about our horrifying conquest of the Mexicans. First off, it was Spanish imperialism we were fighting, not the Mexicans. And second, this was the way of the world until very recently. Ya wanna know why Cortez kicked ass? Montezuma was an imperial prick who had conquered his way to the top – Cortez made alliances with those he conquered and took him down. Those folks at the time didn’t consider Cortez’s invasion anything unusual – conquest via force was the norm at the time.

    Aristocratic dress in European monarchies – Yeah, you are talking about a tiny percentage of men who had oodles of status already. Even funnier are the comparisons to Mick Jagger – a world class alpha. The point for these guys (aside from say David Bowie who is a world class freak) was that they had so much charisma, they could dress effeminately and still make women wet just by making eye contact. But today? These boys act like girls – Mick never acted like a girl.

    What is American culture? It’s WASP culture. The JOOS that ignorant morons on this thread lament succeeded here because they mimicked WASP culture. The Irish resisted but gave in too – who do you think the Kennedy’s were/are but a bunch of Irish catholics acting like WASPS?

    Hard work, virtue, a modern philosophical mindset with reason at its center, a morality which developed that supported a vast secular and liberal society – this comes from WASPs. Previous waves of immigration, before the Mexican invasion of the past 40 years, adopted those values. Black families, up until the ’60s were adopting these values and had similar rates of work, family formation, criminality to whites (not as good but only marginally different) and were making rapid progress. It’s only when we intentionally denigrated those WASP values and let the left gain power in this country did we start to go down the shitter.

    Those same WASP virtues put your own home country, India, on a path to modernity. Of course your moronic leaders abandoned that in favor of retrograde, angry ideas born by Russians and Chinese communist madmen who’s societies never accomplished shit. Fyi, I also know how badly Indians hate white people, every last one of you motherfuckers is more racist than most any American you will ever meet.

    But guess what, you ignorant shitheads – Anonymous, Jeremy and HollenCockLicker – knowledge of this and so much more doesn’t make me a racist or a white supremacist. You see, what you gaping, angry, assholes don’t understand is that the U.S.A. is the first nation ever founded on an idea and value system that anyone can adopt TO THEIR OWN BENEFIT. Any ethnic group, any race – it’s been done time and time again.

    I do agree that white males are loathed and that the left has demonized all that came before in the same way, often with the same propaganda, that the Russians (i don’t bother calling them Soviets) and Chinese did. But that is due to the Gramscian Counter-Hegemony and the neo-Marxist assault on our culture over the past 60 years.

    None of that makes me hate black folks or Jews – gosh how could that be? According to the troglodytes here, this knowledge means I should be joining them on Stormfront or something. For the record, you shitheads babbling this nonsense only reveal how little you actually know about our history, culture and the genetics/science you claim to rely on.

    But in the end, such people always are insecure fuckwits who are compensating for some kind of deficiency they feel about themselves.

    Me? I’m proud as shit to be an American white man who has embraced a good chunk of those WASPY values. And you racist pricks can suck my dick dry.

  24. @ Jeremy,

    Really?

    I live in close enough proximity to welfare folks, I’ve seen them regularly for many decades. I can’t debate this issue with statisticians.

    I will say this. Broke mothafuckas who rant and rave about 3-400 bucks and where they can spend that money are not to be taken seriously. Even in this bullshit video the chick says 221 dollars a month. Break into song and dance.

    Watch what they do, not what they say…..

    Chris Rock had a routine about..folks..singing ” welfare carols ” . People with nothing are thrilled with something, especially if it’s free.

    If it were up to me, tomorrow EBT cards would only buy food. The State/Feds changed the rules and now EBT cards can buy damn near anything. But, it’s still 3-400 bucks a month. You won’t buy property, or go to college, or invest, or save, or buy a decent car even. But you will spend every last dime of that money every month.

    Sing on.

  25. And not to get off on too much of a rant, but decent folks of color find videos like that offensive. A minority within a minority.

    Just sayin’.

  26. I have some thoughts on this essay.

    Tomassi wrote: “…it’s quite another to become aware of your own participation in it once you’re committed legally, emotionally and familially to going along with the plan.” This was in regard to your wife openly confirming your role as beta.

    I want to address the situation that I find myself in, which I think is more common one. My wife has not “openly revealed your[my] part in the plan,” however, I am now red pill aware and I see that I transitioned from a somewhat alpha male in my youth, to a complete beta who bought the idea of the “egalitarian equalist expectation of men in marriage,” hook line and sinker.

    Tomassi later writes: “That’s not to say a real transformation isn’t possible, but rather it’s a question of whether the juice will ever be worth the squeeze. There is no ‘quick fix’, no magical formula that will reverse Frame to your favor.” And then he references the “Iron Rule of Tomassi #7 It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship.”

    Well I agree that if your wife openly confirms your role in her hypergamy, and tells you that you are the beta she planned to marry after she had her fun with the alphas, you should walk away. However if you are in, what I suspect is, the much more common situation, that being, you married as a somewhat alpha man, but then bought into the egalitarian equalist expectation, and slowly became much more beta, then walking away might not be necessary.

    I may never become a complete Alpha in my wife’s eyes, however, I would not consider myself to have failed as long as I am able to continue my growth as a man, and continue my transformation toward alpha; and of course, as long as I am shown respect by her, and am not friend zoned.

    What I am trying to get at here is that for most married men, becoming alpha in your marriage might not be possible; however, avoiding being friend zoned probably is possible.

    (BTW, I am not advocating for the purple pill here, rather, I am speculating on how much of a transformation is possible within the confines of a marriage that one entered in a blue pill state.)
    Any thoughts?

  27. What you’re creating is a straw man, Blaximus. My point was that fatherhood is priced out the equation. Your response has been to infer that my point was something else, namely that those on welfare were “living it up” on their meager income + subsidies. That was not my point, but you can continue to think it was. The fact remains, if you give women all of that subsidy to pump out babies, they will continue to not consider the consequences of who they fuck. This is before you even consider that women have all the choice in the world whether or not to (1) use cheap birth control, or (2) have an abortion, or (3) abandon the baby at a firehouse with no criminal consequences. No, it’s quite clear that these women take the pregnancy to term and keep these children for the state income. This means that the harsh consequences for poor planning and not teaming up with a good father are never realized, namely starvation.

  28. @David – My suggestion? Focus on “internal game”. Forget about your wife and “fixing” your marriage for the time being. Make yourself your own point of mental origin and develop the habit of living to please yourself, first and foremost. If you do this, fyi, you will be demonstrating value to your wife and she may react in surprising ways.

    The hard bit to admit is that most wives are really begging to be alphaed up – even if they bitch about it. But even then, if you go through this transformation properly, you won’t be doing it to fix your marriage or change your wife’s behavior. Either your marriage will sort itself out and you will be happy with it, or you won’t. Either way – you will be happy. Your life will become about serving your interests and needs and desires first.

    I think that from one POV the Red Pill for married men is like that announcement on an airplane about oxygen masks – you have to put your’s on before you can help anyone else. Thanks for the great, open and honest share here, fyi, I am always amazed at the honesty of men sharing here.

  29. I don’t do the straw man thing.

    I responded 1) to the data and graph being unrealistic. I then gave reasons why. Basing conclusions on faulty reasoning is ..well….faulty.

    2) I then responded to that bullshit video because wtf?

    I agreed that women/single moms should not be subsidized by anyone.

    The graph you referred to has unrealistic numbers and totals in my experience. I’ve heard hundreds of over-inflated amounts attributed to welfare. So, as I’m want to do, I expanded.

    So let’s recap shall we? No one on welfare is getting 60 grand a year. That number is complete bullshit. I like Zerohedge and read it often, but occasionally there numbers screw the pooch. They aren’t alone, so it’s not their fault. It’s a bug in the American system.

    And yes, I’d strip the benefits if I had the power. But I’m not interested in starving anyone. If I explained what I mean I guess you’d say I was creating a straw man, so to alleviate that fuckery I’ll just leave it at that.

    Because. It’s. Not. That. Serious.

  30. @ kfg

    re: screwdriver to remove a bolt

    If it wasn’t for my friend, who I didn’t meet until later in my life, I probably wouldn’t know the difference either.

    I’ve grown a lot over the past few years learning my trade. Introduced to all kinds of tools I didn’t even know existed.

    Just the other day I had to get a 1/4″ piece of steel and a 1/4″ drive 8mm socket, both of which I had to modify using a cut off tool and a bench grinder to fit around a brass nut in a really awkwardly routed channel.

    There was no way to get in there. But by cutting a part of the socket off and grinding it down to be shaped like a bullet, bending the steel to a sharp right angle, cutting it off and grinding it down so it could fit into the socket and clear the channel so I could turn it, I was able to adjust the nut.

    It was the most critical part of the whole job too. It was an incredibly awkward rout, but the tool I made got the job done. It did take me an hour or two to fine-tune it so it would finally fit, but being able to come up with my own tool made me feel pretty good.

    Even better when I handed the project back to the person the other day, and they were beaming. Everyone else they took it to had given up on it and said nothing could be done for it.

    Then when my friend flipped his couch over on his brother and broke the leg on it, I helped him fix that. It was a really nasty break. But I made a little channel with a forstner bit to secure the leg in while I ran a bit through it with the drill press, epoxied in a steel rod, then took it back to his house, drilled out a hole in the couch where the leg was to accommodate the steel rod, press fitted it in, hammered it down and locked it in place and it’s been perfect ever since. You’d never know it was broken, and it’s probably a lot stronger than it was originally.

    Before that, they were just using a stack of books to prop the couch up.

    There’s something soothing about it. Building skills, getting more familiar with tools, and having a feeling of confidence and mastery.

    I’ve done a number of jobs that people said couldn’t be done, just by innovating a bit. When I’m working on a project, it’s like I have a CAD program in my brain — I try to lay everything out and then get an idea of what I’ll have to design to make it work.

    There’s a tremendous artisan level to the craft too. Most of the time you’re dealing with tolerances of thousandths of an inch, and you have to do almost all of it by hand.

    There’s something nice about overcoming the challenges too, and how hard it can be to come up with a solution. Taking on stuff that no one else will take on is what builds your reputation too. The guy was floored when I gave him his piece back. So on top of making a custom tool out of steel rod and a socket to get the thing working, I had to custom fit some jewelry-tier pieces of bone I had to painstakingly fit from pieces of raw cow bone.

    A massive amount of artisan work is how I think of that. It came out looking beautiful and I was really proud to hand it back to him. His son said he was really pissed off and grumpy that day but that turned everything around.

    That’s the real icing on the cake. I don’t like giving up on projects because I feel like I’m letting people down. So when I can get something working that 10 other people gave up on and said was a lost cause, and see how happy it makes that person — that’s a huge part of why I love doing this.

    Anyway, IMO you have to find something you love. I think a lot of men just don’t explore their interests very much.

    Being interested in computer hardware can lead to learning how to solder, getting acquainted with some new tools, and before you know it you have a segue into soldering pipes for plumbing, doing soldering/wiring projects on any number of electronics devices, etc.

    The skills translate. One thing leads to another. Woodworking, electronics, hardware, metalworking — that covers a whole lot. So entertaining even just a cursory interest in something like building a computer or building a guitar can lead to things you’d never thought it would lead to. Next thing you know you’re helping someone fix their car, do a restoration on some old furniture or god knows what else.

    I’ll repeat: a lot of men don’t explore their interests.

    You have to just dive into something when your curiosity gets the better of you. Not be intimidated. Trust that you’ll learn. Just have the ambition to satisfy your curiosity.

    I think there’re a lot of life lessons hidden in that too. Men are creators by nature.

    I can only speak for myself, but if I wasn’t creating anything like I do on a regular basis now, I don’t think I’d feel fulfilled.

    Whatever it is, I think it’s a good idea as men to ask ourselves what we want to create.

    Even if it’s just an at-home project like building a cabinet or a stand for something. You could just buy something, but getting in the habit of making things for yourself whenever you can is a rewarding habit to get into.

    Anything that promotes, builds, and evolves your sense of independence and self-sufficiency is a huge plus, IMO, as far as “inner game” goes.

    Not to mention it does give you some outcome independence. Like yeah, you could be pursuing this girl or that girl, but when you honest to God would rather finish a project you’re working on — you don’t need to play ‘hard to get.’

    You simply are hard to get because you value your time. So now that it’s being filled up with things that interest you, things that don’t equally interest you and don’t seem of equal or greater value — why would you waste your time on it, whatever it is? Whether it’s a low-value girl, people you don’t like hanging out with, or whatever?

  31. @kfg
    “It is her perception of the interaction that is important.”
    Gold

    @Blaximus
    ” I am fortunate to have known 90% of the men I’ve met and learned from in my lifetime. I have volumes of respect for the abilities of men. This loss is unfathomable to me.”
    Spoke to masculine style about this today. Didn’t grow up with an example learning and growing as I go along.

    “The dependency state is a really fucked up way to live, and only ever promotes more dependency for generations to come. It’s evil.”

    That’s beautifully stated.

    “Watch what they do, not what they say…..”
    Redpill in a sentence

    @Jeremy
    “convincing hordes of white knights that their mistakes are worthy of public funding to make up for.”
    Used to be the biggest one I knew.

    @David W
    “What I am trying to get at here is that for most married men, becoming alpha in your marriage might not be possible; however, avoiding being friend zoned probably is possible.”
    Interesting that’s a good point. I am not good at the avoiding part. Meet this girl named Megan that I did that with.

    @Softek
    “I’ll repeat: a lot of men don’t explore their interests.

    You have to just dive into something when your curiosity gets the better of you. Not be intimidated. Trust that you’ll learn. Just have the ambition to satisfy your curiosity.

    I think there’re a lot of life lessons hidden in that too. Men are creators by nature.”

    You for me thinking about Leonardo da Vinci

    @Forge the sky
    That zone I wanna get back to that zone. Need sleep now.

    @Rollo
    “well, up to this point there have been absolutely no “men” my daughter has met.”
    Holy hell

  32. “@Shiva – While I loathe the ignorant, ankle biting, vile racists here as well, you have to get over your burning hatred/jealousy of the West and whites.”

    The jealously you perceive I have about whites is only your paranoia.
    I never said whites did this whites did that, I specifically named GOTUS.
    I don’t care whether it was the whites, natives or blacks in the GOTUS who broke treaties and perpetrated systemic genocide against the native americans. Reneging of treaties unilaterally for greed is not a virtue for any race of people.
    I only mentioned that, just like “sins of the fathers are visited upon their children”, sins of GOTUS will visit their subjects.

    I didnot venture into who Cortex is or Montuzema is. I did not initiate anything about Hispanola or central America.
    I was specific about the North American tribes as well as the “5 Civilized Tribes”, their deals and treaties with GOTUS and subsequent “disenfranchisement”

    “The point for these guys (aside from say David Bowie who is a world class freak) was that they had so much charisma, they could dress effeminately and still make women wet just by making eye contact.”
    If this was trues for alphas of yesterday then it will be true for alphas of today and tomorrow.”

    I only raised the point of futility in bickering about appearances.
    The weird european style started after syphillis became an epidemic and the style spread to even middle class gentlemen of those societies not just the aristocrats. That was until the blazers took over.

    “What is American culture? It’s WASP culture. The JOOS that ignorant morons on this thread lament succeeded here because they mimicked WASP culture.”
    The Jews were success even in Europe, they adopt but also preserve their practices they learnt over 2000 years.
    And you calling Jews as JOOS is your own seething hatred.

    “made alliances with those he conquered and took him down. Those folks at the time didn’t consider Cortez’s invasion anything unusual – conquest via force was the norm at the time.”
    Yeah right, colonization was actually all about civilizing the natives. A noble selfless pursuit. Nothing to do with conquering a continent for their children and personal gains.

    “Hard work, virtue, a modern philosophical mindset with reason at its center, a morality which developed that supported a vast secular and liberal society – this comes from WASPs.”

    Wrong if you had said only WASPs
    Hard work and virtue are respectable trait in all of the civilizations of the world and not anything.
    The 30 years of Protestant/Catholic slaughterfest celebration in Europe was result of a unique European secularism. This is not true secularism.
    This secularism meant I will tolerate your right to practise anything , but like a snob I will still think that I am superior and you are inferior.

    But then it was really in 1970s with the Hippies that the Western world had true Secularism where the people of west were even ready to consider some one else might also be true or optimal.

    “a modern philosophical mindset with reason at its center,”
    only if you cared to even read the philosophical mindset of other would you realize how wrong this statement is. You are just so sure that everything you know is right or atleast every process you follow leads only to truth.

    It was the Ancient Egyptian philosophers who mentored the Ancients Greeks in philosophy. But this is never acknowledged by Western Philosophers.
    Even a lot of basis of post renaissance philosophical mindset came from Eastern philosophies.
    People of West believe all philosophical mindset just sprang up from null and void into the Greek society. The western philosphers have been responsible for this falsehoods.

    “Those same WASP virtues put your own home country, India, on a path to modernity. Of course your moronic leaders abandoned that in favor of retrograde, angry ideas born by Russians and Chinese communist madmen who’s societies never accomplished shit.”

    They are not uniquely WASP virtues and
    for all the WASP virtues ,
    1- You have a freeloading entitlement minded GOTUS turning your population into freeloading zombies.
    2- You have a currency and economy which is hanging by the thread. No doubt that it is right now still strong, but how long can you hollow the foundation.
    3- for all the WASP virtues, feminism is taking over in the society WEST while you guys are sitting on the sidelines.
    4- You are sitting on the sides, when your boys are being juiced up with Adderall, brainwashed by Feminism.
    As adults, you have failed your boys and are now whining in the comments of this thread.

    Why don’t you apply the WASP virtues in your society right now and make a Shangrilla out of it?

    Many a times, time is not on one’s side. Thats why the Indians are not able to clean up their entire act even when they wish to , while applying Universal values which you misappropriate as WASP-only values. But the change is happening. You need to open your eyes to see it.

    Just like not all WASP american men can be top 20%, at a single point of time not all countries can be at the top 20%.

    ” Fyi, I also know how badly Indians hate white people, every last one of you motherfuckers is more racist than most any American you will ever meet.”
    “And you racist pricks can suck my dick dry.”
    “According to the troglodytes here, this knowledge means I should be joining them on Stormfront or something.”

    We have an old saying, “Every man tends to see a mirror of himself in another man.”
    You just poured a lot of unsubstantiated garbage in your words.

    “None of that makes me hate black folks or Jews – gosh how could that be? ”
    Hate no, but definitely shows that you think you are way better than them just because of WASP virtues. You just wish the Jews would come down to you level, if only they could follow your WASP virtues.

    “For the record, you shitheads babbling this nonsense only reveal how little you actually know about our history, culture and the genetics/science you claim to rely on.”
    Why are you skirting the issue of GOTUS reneging treaties with the Iroquois tribes and esp. 5 civilized tribes?
    Is reneging treaties and promises the bedrock of Ironclad Rocksolid WASP virtues?
    If not, then where is your sense of WASP honor when your GOTUS committed such travesty?

    “Me? I’m proud as shit to be an American white man who has embraced a good chunk of those WASPY values. And you racist pricks can suck my dick dry.”

    Again you are so sure of yourself. Every one else( the others) must be, should be wrong, right?
    No one, who is not a WASP or WASP-copyrighted virtue worshipper, must not be capable of any innovation or value addition to you.
    I wonder would you have ever agreed to what Rollo says if he was lets say a non-wasp oriental man named Sun Wokong from Hong Kong.

    Carry on, even the ancients Greeks were so sure of themselves before the Macedonians railroaded them over.
    Maybe being so sure of oneself is also a WASP trait in your mind.

  33. The young men I am presented with today don’t know how to do anything at all, and they are perfectly happy with that. A few of my God children came over my house for some pool time and a barbeque. Fellas, I had 2 giant gas grilles and 2 smokers going full blast, and not one of the 6 or so young men had any interest what-so-ever in checking out the culinary hijinks that were unfolding. They all just sat around inside waiting on the girls to direct the

    That’s just obvious. The whole point of technological progress is to live in comfort and peace, otherwise nobody would bother with it in the first place. If you give a man the options of slaughtering and preparing his own food or working some specialized job that pays for food bought in the supermarket, they will mostly choose the latter. It’s an inevitable side effect of prosperity.

  34. Jeremy, well, up to this point there have been absolutely no “men” my daughter has met.

    Would you, as her father, be more comfortable with the alternative?

    Either you have a society where men are responsible for women and women are accountable to men, to borrow an expression from Novaseeker, or you have one where men aren’t responsible for women and women aren’t accountable to men. Either one or the other. There’s no third option. Today we have the latter, as we here all know. This means boys aren’t socially expected to assume responsibility for women, so nobody bothers to train, indoctrinate and incentivize them to become patriarchs. On the other hand, women are free to work, study, travel, fuck and consume as they wish. How many people are prepared to replace this system with the other one?

  35. Yes, your white ancestors built this nation on the grave of the native american societies and civilization.

    They had no civilization to speak of, and their overwhelming majority ended up in graves due to unintended epidemics, not violent death. The main reason white settlers were successful is that the lands they claimed were very sparsely populated even before those epidemics, as opposed to the situation in South Africa, where white colonialism thus eventually failed. Those lands were sparsely populated because the natives lacked the necessary abilities and conditions to build a civilization that can populate a land in the first place.

  36. “They had no civilization to speak of,”
    Your claim, they did not have your type of civilization

    ” and their overwhelming majority ended up in graves due to unintended epidemics, not violent death. The main reason white settlers were successful is that the lands they claimed were very sparsely populated even before those epidemics, as opposed to the situation in South Africa, where white colonialism thus eventually failed. Those lands were sparsely populated because the natives lacked the necessary abilities and conditions to build a civilization that can populate a land in the first place.”

    Still it does not mean that anyone barge in , drive the native americans of their lands and take them over. It is still wrong.

    Tell me, if the Downtown crowds starts rioting and invading the rich suburbs using guns, do they have the right to take over the 12 bedroom Mansion of a single white man since he cannot anyway occupy more than one room at a time.

    Your solipsism is amazing.

  37. So tell me, Shiva, what kind of moral code did Native American tribes adhere to? Was it a morality superior to that of evil imperialist crackers? Did they wage wars against one another or not? Did they ever take and mistreat hostages or not? Did they live in complete harmony with the land or not? Did they ever forcibly take the wealth and possessions of others or not? Did they kill and torture prisoners or not? Would they have treated Whites better or worse if the roles were reversed?

  38. “So tell me, Shiva, what kind of moral code did Native American tribes adhere to? Was it a morality superior to that of evil imperialist crackers? Did they wage wars against one another or not? Did they ever take and mistreat hostages or not? Did they live in complete harmony with the land or not? Did they ever forcibly take the wealth and possessions of others or not? Did they kill and torture prisoners or not? ”

    You came into their homes, Native americans did not invade Europe.
    For a moment , would you even care to place yourself in his shoes?

    How right would it have been for native americans to colonize Europe and you being handful of remanent white europeans living in European reservations. Would it be right , had in the process of colonization, Europeans died due to diseases and not been actually slaughtered by the native Americans.

    By what standards, Nazism and Fascism was wrong?
    Do you mean to say, they are viable ideologies like democracy? Why are they banned only because they lost or we decided that such behavior is of no merit?

    As Jesus said, “Only he who has never sinned may cast the first stone”

    By what standards is Feminism wrong then. All that Feminism does is rules are applicable to thee, not to me.

    “Would they have treated Whites better or worse if the roles were reversed?”
    Whites were way easily assimilated into the tribes than the native americans assimilated into the whites.
    You behave as if the native americans did not have any societies or code of honor.

    You think the native American would do all those things to you given the chance, that you do/did to him.
    About your entire unsubstantiated allegations of “what-ifs” against the native Americans, as I said earlier,
    We have an old saying, “Every man tends to see a mirror of himself in another man.”

    Just because you could do somethings and get away with it, does not make it right.
    The original commentator was hyperventilating how bad it is for white men.
    If you believe might is right, then you have to accept it on the day when you are at the receiving end.

  39. “The FI will reap what it sows. Unfortunately, we will all pay the price in the end. Who is gonna rebuild this crumbling country? Will everything requiring muscle and balls have to be outsourced to an immigrant population?”

    People in the West are too drunk up on rugged individualism and think boys should just get it.

    You guys cannot have you cake and eat it too.
    Men of this generation cannot sit on sidelines and whine about how bad the next generation of boys coming out are while they themselves have not mentored any.

    It was the catholic church , I think, which came with this saying against godless communism.
    “Those who do not believe in any god, they fall for anything”
    No male mentors equals boys brainwashed with Feminism.
    Now, how many boys have you mentored?

  40. ” . . . had in the process of colonization, Europeans died due to diseases . . .”

    They did and were.

    “If you believe might is right . . .”

    If you believe your property rights have been violated, how do you enforce them?

  41. ‘When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.’ -G.K. Chesterton

  42. @key
    lol don’t worry I know what you’re asking. I wondered the same shit back in the day. Here’s my spergy technical answer:

    I focus on their left eye (so from my point of view it’s the eye on the right). I read that the shit on the right side of our body is connected to the left side of the brain and vice-versa, and that the right side of the brain is the creative emotional side and the left is the logical side, a lot of people say focus on their left eye so the wiring is going up to the emotional side of their brain.

    No idea if that’s all just bullshit though. The reality is you have to focus somewhere and like you say you can’t focus on two points at once. So I pick their left eye just incase that shit IS true, and stick with it.

    If you watch eye-contact in movies (and in real life of course) you’ll see girls eyes dart from the guy’s left to right eye and back over and over during highly charged up-close pre-kiss moments. I have zero basis whatsoever for this aside from logic but my thinking is the girl is scanning both your eyes to make 100% sure that you’re legit in that moment in almost an “I can’t believe it is this really happening?? Who IS this guy?? I’ve never met someone this amazing before and I want to know it’s for real!!” sort of feeling so she’s looking to see any flinching or doubt or uncertainty etc. in your eyes.

    So what I like to do is lock an eye and then when I get in closer (like 6-12 inches away from eachother’s face) and we’re having a one on one deep conversation, when she says something that I want her to think has intrigued me, I’ll start darting my eyes back and forth like I’m thinking “wow, is this girl for real?? who IS this girl I’ve met??” like she just hit me in my core somewhere and I’m trying to figure her out…she’s finally “won” by having some kind of emotional impact on me.

    Then I’ll settle it down and game as normal, but I find that little moment tends to boost the tension a lot. It’s like giving her an ioi without verbalizing it and because it’s so subtle she assumes it’s real because who would be crazy enough to fake that…lol

    There’s something primal about looking people in the eye VS looking at her ear or the middle of her nose etc. No idea what it is but my running theory is it causes the same surreal connection feeling in guys and girls, but guys deal with that weird offputting uncomfortable feeling by getting aggressive to get you to stop it because they don’t want to look away like a bitch but it’s too weird to just let it happen so they have to address it directly to stop it and be like “You got a problem, bro?” aggressively, while girls turn it into gina tingles and butterflies in the stomach and may look down and blush etc but they’ll look back up again for more because they like the feeling (since fear and excitement are basically the same thing) and if they don’t look up again and have to keep dodging my eyes because the feeling is too intense I’ll usually call them out on it softly like “how come you can’t look me in the eyes…are you shy? That’s cute.” in a low voice that’s kind of teasing her a little and gets her to look in my eyes again.

    The distance is a big key component. I can lock eyes with a waitress or something (me sitting and her standing taking an order etc.) and come off confident and that’s cool and all, but I can’t get a lot of sexual tension that way. But a girl where I can lock eyes and cut the space on her so I get up closer with my eyes locked, that seems to blow the sexual tension through the roof.

    One way to demonstrate how much of a difference distance makes: tell your bro to help you with an experiment but don’t tell him what you’re going to do. Stand a ways away from him and talk and hold relaxed eye-contact, it won’t be a big deal. But start taking steps toward him and hold that relaxed eye-contact (lazy bedroom eyes like after you’ve had sex, is the best way to describe it) and you’ll find once you cross a certain distance like around the 12″ range it gets SUPER FUCKIN SQUICKY and he’ll get the heebie jeebies and be like “OK STOP!” and back up or tense up or whatever lol Because it just gets too weird. But I think that same feeling, for women, translates into gina tingles. Same thing with like, lightly stroking his back, it’ll weird him the fuck out out but do it to a girl you have attraction with and it’ll turn her on.

    #NOHOMO lol

  43. “” . . . had in the process of colonization, Europeans died due to diseases . . .”They did and were.”

    I meant that in context of a hypothetical scenario of Native Americans colonizing Europe.

    “If you believe your property rights have been violated, how do you enforce them?”
    So, if only by enforcement do we differ in right or wrong then we end up with might is right. By this definition, Nazism would have been right had Hitler won.
    Right now, the western man is increasingly powerless against the state and Feminism, is it they are right to abuse him?

    “G.K. Chesterton”
    I stand corrected

    People in the West have made their Police men into toll and fine collectors ( traffic violations).
    Police salaries and promotions depends on how often they meet their “targets” on fines.
    Judges salaries and promotions depends on how many men get divorce raped thereby increasing the tax base of the county.
    and then they wonder why is the law and order situation going to dogs?
    You have a perverse incentive structure (as coined by an Indian.)
    Having
    legislated injustice you guys say we uphold the rule of law.

  44. Shiva – “By this definition, Nazism would have been right had Hitler won.”

    Godwin violation noted.

  45. “I meant that in context of a hypothetical scenario of Native Americans colonizing Europe.”

    I meant it in the context of reality. More than half of Europeans died of a foreign disease, in some locales as many as 90%, and in the wake of that most of Europe was invaded and colonized and although they were eventually driven back, to this day the invaders still maintain a foothold.

    There were two basic asymmetries in the case of the New World. The disease that Europeans transmitted was quick acting, while that which the Native Americans transmitted was slow acting. It was the Europeans that had ships capable of crossing the ocean, so Native Americans who went to Europe had to do so on European ships. The Europeans declined to do so for more than small numbers.

    In my youth I heard the story of how Squanto befriended the Pilgrims, was crucial to their survival by teaching them native agriculture and acted as interpreter for their interactions with other natives. My reaction was to wonder how such a thing had even been possible, so, as is my nature, I undertook to find out.

    It turns out that the Native American, Squanto, was a Londoner.

    One man may transmit diseases, but he makes a rather poor invasion force.

  46. Oh, and as for Chesterton, he was speaking in defence of the Catholic Church, so you were right in spirit.

  47. Shiva – You are bringing a knife to a gunfight. Your responses and parsing are spurious nonsense and only serve to reveal how little you know about the topics you babble about. Further engagement with you by me would be the equivalent of me punching out a 9 year old girl.

    As for the rest of you racist cocksuckers, you’ve got nothing but weak hyperbole and hate. Fuck off now.

  48. Forgive the broken nature of my reply, I need more coffee.

    ” . . . if only by enforcement do we differ in right or wrong then we end up with might is right. By this definition, Nazism would have been right had Hitler won.”

    It is not a question of right or wrong, but what is. Everything is done by force. Your rights were only obtained by force, and they will only be maintained by force. Fundamentally you only actually have one right, the others being corollary to that one:

    The right of self defence.

    As it happens the nation of France is actually named after my ancestral tribe. A tribe of German invaders from the lower Rhine who took it by force. So one might just as well ask, if their occupation had no legitimacy, by what right did they resist Hitler?

  49. @kfg,
    You and others are still skirting the issue.
    Keeping the nitty gritties aside, would it have been still right had roles been reversed between native Americans and Europeans; ending with Native Americans conquering and cleaning up Europe for their descendants?

    And doesn’t all of this finally ends to “Whats mine is mine, whats yours is negotiable”
    And thats whats Feminism is also doing.

  50. “Forgive the broken nature of my reply, I need more coffee.
    ” . . . German invaders from the lower Rhine who took it by force. …”

    Thats what my question as well, is Feminism backed by the full force of the State doing anything wrong?
    If our resistance fails, then everything Feminism did was all right as per that logic.

    This is one of the greatest point of contention I have with Westerners.
    1. You have rights(halal) and wrongs(haram) with minimal grey areas.
    2. Your rights and wrongs changes all the time at whim
    3. Anyone who is not following you current right is wrong.
    4. You have no concept of righteousness.

  51. “And doesn’t all of this finally ends to “Whats mine is mine, whats yours is negotiable””

    No. It finally ends to “What’s mine is what I can prevent you from taking from me.” That’s the only reason my doors have locks on them.

    “And thats whats Feminism is also doing.”

    That’s right. And I’ve already addressed that slightly up thread:

    The constraint on female behaviour is male behaviour. The reason you can stand on the floor is because when you apply a force against it, it does its part by applying a force against you.

    As I recall Lord Krishna had something to say about all of this.

  52. “No. It finally ends to “What’s mine is what I can prevent you from taking from me.” That’s the only reason my doors have locks on them.”

    Locks and doors can be pulled down by the State or a mob. Does not mean the State or a mob can overreach.

    “The constraint on female behaviour is male behaviour. The reason you can stand on the floor is because when you apply a force against it, it does its part by applying a force against you.”

    One constraint on male behavior is the State and thats why Feminism is winning and as per your definitions doing right

    “As I recall Lord Krishna had something to say about all of this.”
    I totally miss the context, need elaboration.

    Still unanswered ,
    why is European invasion of Native America and cleaning it up was right whereas Native American invasion of Europe and cleaning it up would have been wrong?

  53. “One constraint on male behavior is the State . . .”

    The behaviour of the State is the behaviour of people.

    ” . . . as per your definitions doing right . . .”

    You cannot have read and understood my definitions. I have defined feminism as winning because they are applying a greater force than is opposing it. I have introduced no concept of morality. It is a natural law that it apply force.

    Why are your arguments and questions seemingly formed to escape your responsibilities in the dharma? You cannot stand on the floor passively, demanding that the floor do all the work. You must apply a force against it, as it must “retaliate.”

  54. @ YaReally

    Lmao.

    Nice advice. I was looking between the eyes to try to maintain focus on both.

    I just googled a picture of a woman so I could try your way out of focusing on the left eye (right from my perspective).

    It does make a big difference. A few seconds looking at the image and focusing both ways — I can feel it. Interesting. I wonder if I haven’t been utilizing eye contact as fully as I thought because I was focusing on the area between the eyes as opposed to just locking onto one eye.

    A part of that comes from my time doing martial arts. We were trained to look ‘through’ people and not lock onto their eyes, so you could get a full perspective of their entire body and wouldn’t get tunnel vision. If your focus is too narrow you won’t be able to tell if they’re starting to throw a kick or a punch or what they’re doing, whereas if you look at them like you’re ‘looking at a mountain in the distance’ you can see everything. It also keeps you from telegraphing what you’re going to do, e.g. looking at the part of their body you’re going to hit next.

    Maybe not the best for interacting with women, haha. I’m gonna try the one-eye lock on next chance I get. Although looking between their eyes probably gave the impression of looking them in the eye and I’ve held quite a bit of contact doing that.

    But looking at the image from google and staring just at one eye just feels like you’re actually locked on more. Look them in the eye, not the eyes — hm.

    A little obsessive? Maybe.

    But reading about Buteyko breathing and Dr. Mew/Orthotropics had me obsessing for a long time about how I was swallowing my saliva, my resting oral posture, and how I was breathing. Same thing with reading about sleep posture.

    So I guess this isn’t that bad :p

  55. “The behaviour of the State is the behaviour of people.”
    Not right, how many people are happy with Obama care, naked body scanning and groping from TSA.
    How many people would like the interest rate to stay this low?
    Thats why behavior of the State is aligned with behavior of the masses only on few vectors. But the TPTB decide the alignment of rest of vectors.

    “You cannot have read and understood my definitions. … as it must “retaliate.””
    Long story short, Native Americans would have been also right had they succeeded in cleaning up Europe as per your explanation.
    But I doubt that the understanding of most Americans of European descent.

    “Why are your arguments and questions seemingly formed to escape your responsibilities in the dharma? ”
    Actually, I did not say that. The native Americans did apply retaliatory force and lost.
    This might be right in realm of natural law, but the realm of human laws differ.
    If you sucker punch me and push me off a cliff, you might very well say that by natural law, “gravity killed me, You are not responsible”.

    What karma says that, “Every action has equal and opposite reactionary consequence.”
    You pushed some one off the cliff, by karma, later on some one will push you off a cliff. The forces of nature will scheme for this scenario to happen since Karma has to balance out.

    Laws of gun control that were designed to keep the black citizens of US away from guns, have now ended up harassing even the white citizens of US.
    Laws that were used to disenfranchise the native americans and the Japanese americans of their property using the power of the State have expanded and now throwing white americans too onto their street via Wall Street.
    At each of the above stage, the rest of the white americans of those times had to option to kick the State in its gonads and ask them to stop the legislated injustice. But instead whites of those times colluded and prospered on the loot.

    First the State came of the Native Americans, then they came for the blacks, then for the Japanese americans and now they are coming for the whites.
    This is payback, this is karma.

  56. @Softek
    When you lock eyes legit, you’ll find it’s hard for her to tear her eyes away from yours and vice-versa. My buddy describes it as holding two magnets near eachother, they instinctively want to stay locked and trying to pull them away feels a little difficult like they linger behind until you get your head turned far enough and then you’re free again. It’s a trippy little thing and I don’t understand the actual science of what’s going on but it’s pretty consistent.

    “If your focus is too narrow you won’t be able to tell if they’re starting to throw a kick or a punch or what they’re doing”

    The interesting thing is that when you get good at doing this you’ll understand why looks don’t matter. When you lock laser eyes with a girl, she gets tunnel vision and basically everything else fades to black for her and the noise dies down and for some reason she seems to be able to hear your voice more clearly (I purposely lower my voice and they seem to pick up on the jist of what I’m saying more clearly than if I was trying to shout into her ear over the music, it’s weird).

    But like, she can’t see my beer belly, she can’t see how nice my shoes are, she can’t see if I’m wearing a nice watch, she can’t even tell what shirt I’m wearing (unless she’s observed me beforehand and purposely taken note of that stuff, but like if I cold approach her out of nowhere and can lock lasers she’ll have no idea what the rest of me looks like).

    A funny game is to lock lasers and talk for a min and then tell her to close her eyes and cover them so she can’t see, then ask her what’s on your shirt or what color shirt it is or what color your shoes are etc, she’ll usually have absolutely no idea.

    So you can build attraction with this and she just feels that when you look at her or she’s around you she gets tingles and can’t explain why she’s attracted to you because objectively you might not be her type, and she’ll say there’s just “something” about you or she’ll describe feeling butterflies in her stomach etc, but you can actually create this effect deliberately by doing this on purpose lol

    It’s really interesting, I’ve been focusing on it a lot this year and I literally don’t even know how I was picking girls up before this. Actually that’s not true, I was instinctively DOING this at times, and accidentally stumbling into locking laser eyes on the girls and I was getting massive attraction fast from it but I didn’t KNOW I was doing it and I wasn’t always doing it it was just by fluke I happened to do it. Now I understand the actual mechanics of it and I can do it with pretty much any girl I’m talking to. That’s why now I prefer to sit across from them on a Day2 instead of beside them even tho beside them would be easier kino. I find I can build WAY more sexual tension through eye-contact than kino.

    The best part is no one can really tell what’s going on. It doesn’t look like anything to people watching, they just see there’s some kind of amazing chemistry going on but it doesn’t look like you’re macking the girl. So it’s extra useful in mixed sets where you want to be subtle.

  57. @Shiva

    You keep asking what is right. Ultimately it’s a useless question if you cannot make it real.

    Anger and indignation are useless emotions unless augmenting productive action.

  58. “This is one of the greatest point of contention I have with Westerners.
    1. You have rights(halal) and wrongs(haram) with minimal grey areas.
    2. Your rights and wrongs changes all the time at whim
    3. Anyone who is not following you current right is wrong.
    4. You have no concept of righteousness.”

    Basically, you accuse us of overconfidence. Guilty as charged. In the human sphere, however, irrational confidence isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.

    It’s a masculine display of fitness.

  59. @ Shiva

    Congradulations you’ve just received the enlightened notion that people get the government they want, and are willing to work toward. The power to rule or govern depends entirely on the consent of those subject to it’s rules/laws. So long as no mass aggregate resistance exists TPTB have both the actual and moral authority to do as they please.

    Thus we can see how targeting civilians in modern warfare is both strategically and even morally necessary. The residents of Dresden weren’t rebelling against the Reich so they were defacto supporters and therefore legitimate targets (I know; Godwin violation, I can’t resist). Much like the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Sometimes breaking the will of the adversary to resist means breaking the adversary physically.

    With ideas like feminism those that don’t resist are in fact supporters. And we are all supporters with varying degrees of enthusiasm. The only person I can think of who has resisted recently, in any meaningful way is Andreas Breivik. The larger question of his actions isn’t the morality of the act, but if the efficacy of the act sufficiently mitigates the moral implications. Some people may agree with the aims and never agree with the process. If the process is distasteful enough people who might otherwise agree with the aims will disavow those aims and instead default to side with those who are truly their adversaries. In that sense you are right about the lack of self righteousness in the West.

    You can see this sort of default to the enemies side in the criticism of game that comes from some Christian conservatives. As well the general attitude of socons and tradcons often suggests they’d rather accept the status quo generally than risk losing their bourgoise reputations to say nothing of losing jobs, or property.

    Then you say:

    “This is payback, this is karma.”

    It’s payback for sure, but karma? I doubt that, I think too many have been too soft and too comfortable for too long. The sort of charity and generosity that went with having a stable peaceful society has been perverted and turned against the generous and charitable instead of the greedy and avaricious much like most feminist shaming of men is targeted against the men who are least deserving of it, and least guilty of the charges leveled.

  60. ” As well the general attitude of socons and tradcons often suggests they’d rather accept the status quo generally than risk losing their bourgoise reputations to say nothing of losing jobs, or property.”
    Righteousness(Dharma) is standing your ground on the values one have even at the risk losing their bourgoise reputations to say nothing of losing jobs, or property.
    If Americans cannot stand for what is right then, except for prosperity, there is no difference between US and a banana republic.
    We got a tangential old saying that if, “the silent victim of a crime is wronger than the perpetrator”.
    Something closer to West, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
    Edmund Burke”

    “It’s payback for sure, but karma? I doubt that, I think too many have been too soft and too comfortable for too long. The sort of charity and generosity that went with having a stable peaceful society has been perverted and turned against the generous and charitable instead of the greedy and avaricious much like most feminist shaming of men is targeted against the men who are least deserving of it, and least guilty of the charges leveled.”

    Karma is not instantaneous like a chemical reaction. For every action destabilizing its equilibrium , the back to equilibrium may happen over millenias. Because there is free will, the person who is supposed to push you off the cliff for having done that to me, has the free will to refuse.
    Hence the delay.
    Thats what is said in bible says,”the sins of the father will be visited upon the children”

    You may like to read “The Lucifer Principle”, by Harward Bloom. He explains that the sense of justice for a conqueror is
    “I will slaughter my way to the top, but once I reach there, I want peace”
    and
    “Anyone trying to remove me from my first place is bringing on Armageddon and endangering world peace”

  61. @YaReally

    It’s fucking nuts really. I’ve spent my time looking at the fundamental emotions and instincts involved with this, checking my own state, reading how other people are feeling around me, much more than studying routines or MM or stuff like that. And I think a lot of the other things – routines, openers, even your looks and status – are really little more than things that provided permission for her to allow you her time, and access to her personal space.

    Well, maybe that’s exaggerating a bit lol there’s a lot of things going on. But the triggering of a certain set of emotions and instincts is the core and center of seduction, and the way you do that technically is just what you’re describing. She needs to feel ‘pulled in’ to your head. She needs to feel like she’s ‘contacting your soul.’

    My old one-itis, back when she was really into me, used to go on about my eye contact. When I was ‘on’ she would always compliment my eyes. The way she described them and the colors in them, you’d think they were iridescent lol. They’re clear blue with yellow flecks, no other colors there. She would talk with other girls about how she felt like I could read her mind when I stared right at her, how she felt like I was looking right into her ‘soul,’ and they agreed. Really, it’s basically a huge halo effect that takes over when you do this, which is why everything else like looks stops mattering then.

    You need to create attraction first. But just examine how many emotions are bound up in eye contact. People who feel low-value or out of place or will be unable to hold eye contact. Guys get mad if you hold eye contact, or they feel threatened. If a person stares at you in the eye for even a split second too long, it jerks your emotions and you think, ‘what the hell was that?’ Anything that creates instinctive emotions like that is a tool you can use in pickup and relationships. Notice what creates emotions in you. Then learn to use those things to proper advantage. You mention contact with areas like the low back. There must be more things too.

    There’s some gender differences of course. Girls feel strong emotions when they feel looked at. Skeeved out if by a low-value guy, validated if by a high-value guy, turned on if by a guy they’re attracted to.

    Yesterday I was talking to a girl. HB5, 29, married with kids, she was quite taken by me. My SMV is way higher, lo. I connected with her emotions a bit unintentionally and she started locking eyes with me, and I thought, what the hell, practice. So I played with the eye contact for a bit and she started rubbing her collarbone, then slid her whole hand sorta down and across her chest. I noticed but didn’t follow; she put her hand away for a bit then tried again, and this time I let my eyes flick down when she did it, and her face lit up. Pure pleasure.

    You start with this sort of stuff verbally usually – A1 A2 and all that jazz – then it goes to visual subcommunications, then kinetic. Usually, if she’s drunk you can skip right to kinetic lol. Less fun though.

    Basically it’s like she’s testing your frame first verbally, then if she can’t find an excuse to blow you out she starts checking your emotional congruence by looking at all your tiny facial sub communications (which are harder to fake), then she starts putting herself in your hands to see if you’ve got the balls to make shit happen.

  62. “@Shiva
    You keep asking what is right. Ultimately it’s a useless question if you cannot make it real.
    Anger and indignation are useless emotions unless augmenting productive action.”
    I do not have absolutes in rights and wrongs like most non-Westereners are.
    I was just trying to have a discourse when the point was raised in the reference to Western society, that some thing was wrong or right.
    My point is you have a belief system, fine, Just do not be hypocrites within your own belief systems.

    “Basically, you accuse us of overconfidence. Guilty as charged. In the human sphere, however, irrational confidence isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.
    It’s a masculine display of fitness.”

    Fine, so did the Ancient Greeks before the Macedonians railroaded them over.
    Trivia:
    Medical doctors are the worst specimens of Irrational confidence.
    Tell me did the western doctors say that the Germ theory for infections are rubbish, all the while the Parisian doctors were killing pregnant mothers by spreading infections themselves.
    So many Western patient were killed in hospitals because doctors were too irrational to consider the nation that germs cause disease and infections

    And what was that about ulcers, spicy food cause ulcers!!!
    Western doctors had to eat an egg on their face, when it was conclusively proven that uclers are caused by
    1. H.Pylori
    2. Aspirin — TADA, presceribed by doctors
    3. Ibuprofen — also, prescribed by doctors.
    Spicy food had nothing to do with ulcers.

    As far as lifting weights is concerned most of the doctors, physicians and nutritionists, I found were worthless.
    I was saved by a small tip for Elliot Hulse, while the doctors and physicians were “treating” my pain in both my shoulders for months.
    (Whenever you do push a weight exercise that uses shoulders, also do a corresponding pull a weight exercise to counter balance it.)

    I would any day follow empirically learnt Elliot Hulse and Scott Herman than the kinds of Phd peer reviewed snobs.

    yes, you are indeed the right person to never have to say sorry even if you murder your patients with your irrational confidence.
    Sure, never need to learn anything new , never have to say sorry, just keep doing the same thing over and over again, unless of course you get a circular from American Medical Association.

  63. Shiva – “He explains that the sense of justice for a conqueror is
    ‘I will slaughter my way to the top, but once I reach there, I want peace'”

    Si vis pacem, para bellum – Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus

    Peace through Brute Force – Strategic Underwater Command motto c.1970

    Peace through Superior Firepower – c.1982 Posters and T-Shirts in SOF magazine.

    It’s variation on dread game.

  64. “Shiva – “He explains that the sense of justice for a conqueror is
    ‘I will slaughter my way to the top, but once I reach there, I want peace’”
    Si vis pacem, para bellum – Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus
    Peace through Brute Force – Strategic Underwater Command motto c.1970
    Peace through Superior Firepower – c.1982 Posters and T-Shirts in SOF magazine.
    It’s variation on dread game.”

    Well, I was not pointing at strategic deterrence efforts, I was pointing to Gunboat diplomacy.

  65. @ Badpainter,
    What kind of peace did the conquerors practicing gunboat diplomacy achieved?
    Had it not been for the Soviets there would have been no strategic deterrence efforts but only continuation of gunboat diplomacy.

  66. @ YaReally

    Awesome. The other day when I was out I almost sat next to this girl, thinking the same thing — kino would be easier.

    But I sat across from her instead. The eye contact thing was pretty crazy. It works. All it takes is a quick glance and when you lock in, you’re right — it’s like a magnet.

    I also did some NLP on this girl yesterday. I was helping her work through some emotional issue she had. Inbetween I threw in some jokes as I was using some physical anchors on her (e.g. grabbing and holding her wrist, lightly pressing the center of her collarbone, etc., while using hypnotic suggestions) —

    — to break up how serious the issue was, I had her say as I was using the anchoring process, “I’m really here right now…in this room…sitting in this chair…with this creepy man touching me….it feels really good when he touches me….I like it when he touches me….”

    That had her ROLLING. She burst out laughing and then we carried on as usual. It went well. Later that night at dinner we were making regular eye contact and she was constantly putting her hand lightly on my arm or on my leg while cutting up some pieces of her food and giving them to me, asking me if I wanted to try this or that, etc.

    I just have to get better at escalating. Still haven’t done the deed yet. Brought some condoms with me the other day but didn’t use them. I think once I get over the virginity thing I’ll be better off.

    But at least I’ve made out a bit and gotten quite a few blowjobs. So I’m not uncomfortable with it.

    I’m not really sure how to sexually escalate after building some initial attraction with the cocky/funny thing, eye contact, and some kino.

    In the past I’ve relied on girls making the first move, to give me the ‘green light.’ Like if she’s getting sexual with me, like putting her hand on my leg and rubbing it, or anything that is super obvious like that, I’m okay, but when it comes to me making the first move — I tend to be shy and avoid doing it.

    This is a major flaw for me. And that’s the whole end game — escalating to the point of actually having sex.

    I’ve gotten better at building attraction, and being nonchalant about touching girls, and I’ll keep the eye contact thing in mind now — but sexual escalation is something I’m not sure if I’ve ever done.

    The hookups I’ve had so far have all involved the girl pushing for it, like she would physically escalate and then I would go along with it. Then I’d be okay.

    Like one girl said she just wanted to kiss me, and when we started making out I had zero problems being bold enough to start fingering her and all that stuff. I knew I was in at that point so it was all good.

    But when it’s more tentative, and there’s some sexual tension…I have a habit of letting it fizzle out, because deep down I question if it’s really there.

    So one part is inner game: I have to trust that they’re attracted to me. Still remnants of low self-esteem and fear of rejection. Gotta delete that shit permanently off the hard drive.

    But the second part is external game and just having a game plan of what to do and how to escalate.

    The eye contact and kino is great, but like yesterday when I was out, I realized it’s easy to build attraction and possibly even generate some tingles without anything actually happening.

    Even if all your ducks are in a row, if you don’t escalate sexually, you’re not gonna seal the deal.

    It feels a hell of a lot better to at least feel more confident around women and know that they’re attracted to you. But I’m still horny and I feel like if I don’t get my rocks off soon I’m gonna being going cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

    But it still isn’t as bad as having zero Game and being friend zoned constantly. I think where I am now, I feel like I probably COULD fuck some of these women if I wanted to —

    — it’s just the residual lack of confidence, and also not having practiced or understanding any skills involved with escalating to the point of actually having sex, as opposed to just building sexual attraction.

    Me and other guys I’ve known have had women escalate with them. Some women can be really forward. That can make things easier. But I’d like to have more control and not have to rely on that, because it’s a mixed bag.

  67. @ Shiva

    re: push/pull weights

    I’m using some gymnastics rings. There’s an exercise called hinge rows. Or just regular rows and Bulgarian rows, etc.

    Bent over barbell rows are okay, but I prefer the rings for back exercises because they seem to really push your range of motion and develop strength in that increased range of motion.

    Once I’m strong enough to do a respectable amount of pullups, I don’t know if I’ll keep up with the ring rows or not. If I’d even have to, I mean. I’m doing ring rows for the time being because I can only do a few pullups.

    My standard lately has been:

    -Squats
    -Calf raises
    -Knuckle pushups
    -Barbell military press
    -Ring rows

    And then some Front Lever, Side Lever, and Straddle Planche exercises from gymnastics strength training, with my goal being able to do a full front lever, side lever, and full planche. For cardio I do boxing.

    The push/pull thing is absolutely true. You want to build up your physique and mobility evenly. Some parts of my body are extremely flexible, and others are extremely immobile. Like super tight, knotted up, etc.

    I haven’t gone to a doctor in years. Probably not since I got molested at a physical when I was a kid, lol. But barring that I never got any good advice from psychiatrists really, or any other medical professional.

    Not saying there aren’t any good ones, but I sure haven’t found any. People that are passionate about what they do, and are borderline or fully obsessed with it, and love everything about it — those are the people you want to learn from.

  68. RE; Direct eye contact.

    From People are People:

    Peripheries

    When I was in college I was a competitive fencer (Epée and Sabre if you must know), and it was from my fencing coach that I learned a very valuable lesson in psychology. He told me, “When you are facing your opponent, concentrate your vision directly at where his eyes would be behind his face mask. You cannot possibly track the tip of his weapon with your eyes, and neither can you focus enough attention to follow all of his body movements.” What I learned was that when you apply focus to that central point, your peripheral vision aids your subconscious understanding of what your opponent is doing. It’s in the uniting of this gestalt, peripheral awareness and a focused awareness that makes for the best competitors.

    Human beings have an amazing capacity to multi-task, but a real trained focus on multiple sources of stimuli was problematic for us in our evolutionary past. Too much constant stimuli leads to sensory overload and a breakdown in functionality, which then proves fatal if we’re distracted from reacting to a lethal threat. Thus we evolved psychological mechanisms to push less (though still) important information to the peripheries of our conscious awareness, to afford us a mental acuity on information of more importance.

    Direct sustained eye contact is central to human being’s (and really any predatory animal’s) attack posture. Ever been in a stare contest when you were a kid? This is part of human being’s psychological firmware.

    Sustained eye contact is almost always perceived as confrontational, but it’s also a cue for interpersonal dominance. Having the audacity to hold eye contact a beat longer (or more) will always prompt a hesitant “What?…” from women you’re familiar with (as if there’s something important you want to say but don’t – feminine security need), and a curious psychological footnote for those you don’t.

    Sustain that contact for too long and it triggers defensiveness (creepy) because women interpret it as confrontational (attack posturing).

  69. @shiva

    I’m not sure any civilization has been more enlightened than this, really. You look back into the philosophical history of India or anywhere else and you can find the saints and wise men, but they’re never the majority. Or even a substantial minority.

    Knowing how to be proud is the essence of masculinity. Knowing when not to be is the essence of wisdom. But few men are wise.

    I’m pretty ambivalent about modern mainstream medicine. And work in it. It’s great for crisis circumstances. In other cases it tends to lose the forest for the trees. ‘You have inflammation here, lets give you chemicals that will prevent that’ instead of, ‘Where is this coming from? Can we turn from its source?’ Some of us are trying to change that. Pain due to strength imbalance is super basic stuff.

  70. @Rollo

    I got dragged to a yoga class once. The instructor was a super passionate, spiritual type. Everyone treated her like a guru. She was a bit older, but actually kinda cute, so on some impulse I just stared at her as though paying close attention. At some point she saw, locked eyes with me, and waited for me to break, as everyone else in the room would have instantly. I didn’t. She held for maybe 3 seconds, then turned away, and a smile was playing across her face that she tried to suppress.

    I did this to a prof I had in college too. Timid lady, but still used to being in charge in the classroom. She blushed and turned away after about 2 seconds. It flips the power dynamic without you saying a word.

    It’s powerful stuff. I do wonder, though, if there isn’t another dynamic going on once you get a bit more intimate. Like, it starts as an ‘attack,’ but turns into something else. When a girl starts to ‘lock on,’ it creates a kinda welling up of excitement and a sense of closeness in both parties. It feels different from the stare-down you can use to start establishing a dominant frame.

    Like how a smile was once a way of baring your teeth, an aggressive display, but got repurposed once we developed more complex social emotions and instincts.

    Hell, who knows. Maybe the emotional bonding part is a beta tell if the guy feels it. Maybe an alpha tell is to remain detached even if she’s falling for you.

  71. @ Rollo

    I noticed the other day that the girl would naturally break eye contact after a while, maybe around 5 seconds or so. But she kept coming back for more.

    Back in the day this girl made fun of me for being creepy because I kept staring at her. Desperate Beta, lol. I had no idea who she was. Just saw her sitting there, and every time she’d look back at me, I’d stare right at her eyes.

    Kind of had that serial killer thing going on, lol. One time on a college campus, when I had my homeless guy jacket and my scraggly beard and hippie hair going, a girl came up to me and said her friend thought I looked really scary. Haha. Those days are long gone. But funny to note that now.

    It’s very nuanced. I wonder how much of it is context dependent? Probably a lot of it. I’m guessing there’s no hard and fast rules for how long to hold eye contact — it’s just something you have to get a feel for.

    I’m a human, after all, so if the physiological cues are true for everyone else, they should be true for me too. Just have to listen to instinct.

    No doubt it’s tremendously important. I’ve been experimenting with quick eye-locks for a while too. Like if you’re watching a movie or video together or something. If you look over at her or she looks over at you, just lock eyes for a while, but don’t go overboard.

    My friend told me from his gigging days to not overplay your hand. If you catch a hot girl looking at you, make eye contact, recognize her, but don’t let it go farther than that. And don’t look at her too often. Quick glance and quick eye contact once in a while, but don’t overplay your hand.

    This one girl I’ve been working on is kind of a weirdo. We’ve gotten into some staring contests actually. I’m not really sure what to make of that. It’s kind of freaky. She’ll usually break it by smiling and laughing though. Tries to keep a poker face but can’t do it.

    As far as aggression: my old boss was a master at that.

    He would get pissed off, and his way of telling you would be to first yell at you, then insult you, and then after asking a sarcastic question like “What the fuck is wrong with you?”, he’d just stand in front of you with his arms crossed, and stare you right in the eye without saying anything. And just stand there and keep staring as if he expected you to answer the question.

    I wanted to beat the shit out of that guy so badly. So yeah. The attack posture thing is for sure. Even look at MMA or boxing and the fighting promo posters — the infamous ‘stare down.’

    As nuanced as it is, definitely better to be making regular eye contact with girls than none at all. With girls that you’re not working on actively, e.g. girls across a room, shorter eye contact is probably better. If you’re having dinner or something, a little longer is probably okay.

    I don’t want to overthink this shit. But when you’re the crab trying to get out of the barrel it can be hard not to.

    Being called creepy isn’t the worst thing in the world either. Look at all the girls into complete assholes and guys that are basically sadists and emotional abusers.

    The name of the game is sexualizing: as long as you can play it off as something sexual, and make it fun/exciting, you can just about get away with murder.

    When you start taking things personally and beating yourself up is when you REALLY lose frame. I wonder if shit tastes are based around that too, like girls taking jabs at you — to see if it shakes your frame or not, if you’re easily offended/hurt and have low self-esteem, or can let things just roll off of you, etc. and you aren’t really bothered by anything.

    So maybe inner game is ultimately king, and outer game is the queen — the real key is having an unshakeable frame, an attitude that it doesn’t really matter what girls say to you or don’t say to you, because there’s nothing they can do that’s going to flip your world upside down. Or even make it budge.

  72. ” . . . the person who is supposed to push you off the cliff for having done that to me, has the free will to refuse.”

    Exactly. It is not the State that arrests you, it is a policeman.

    ” Native Americans would have been also right had they succeeded in cleaning up Europe as per your explanation.”

    No, as per my explanation they would have been the winner.

  73. “I’m not sure any civilization has been more enlightened than this, really. You look back into the philosophical history of India or anywhere else and you can find the saints and wise men, but they’re never the majority. Or even a substantial minority.”
    My basic point was not really intended about comparing civilizations.
    It was about solipsistic hypocrisy that I saw in the thought of some of the posters here of the order of,
    “If you do it, its charity, if others do, its rape”.

    Also, Glenn went overboard with “dick sucking” and other things which shows the paranoia of a conquerors mindset. He thinks everyone else has nothing better to do than just get the Americans.
    Just my the simple act of pointing out inconsistencies and showing up the mirror gets me and entire non-western world branded as America haters.

    “Knowing how to be proud is the essence of masculinity. Knowing when not to be is the essence of wisdom. But few men are wise.”
    Agreed. But when there is only right and wrong, no grey areas, where is the latitude to apply wisdom in Western world.
    Sadly in Western world, under the domain of right and wrong; all propaganda is about manufacturing consensus.
    The majority western working individuals are more of highly optimized, highly productive civilized sheep.
    Righteousness is about the thought “homosexuals have the right to do whatever they do in their privacy”
    The thought of majority Western individual is more towards “I will believe and do as ‘homosexuals have the right to do whatever they do in their privacy’ else the rest of the society might shun me or worse call me racists”
    Putting up pretenses of beliefs just to seem nice.
    The entire shame-festing Western society just just bickering on social norms without an logical thought.

    “I’m pretty ambivalent about modern mainstream medicine. And work in it. It’s great for crisis circumstances. In other cases it tends to lose the forest for the trees. ‘You have inflammation here, lets give you chemicals that will prevent that’ instead of, ‘Where is this coming from? Can we turn from its source?’ Some of us are trying to change that. Pain due to strength imbalance is super basic stuff.”
    I have lately seen doctors change by a bit, but had to point out the consequences of cockiness.
    Cockiness of the colonizers brought syphilis to Europe.

  74. Shiva – “Just my the simple act of pointing out inconsistencies and showing up the mirror gets me and entire non-western world branded as America haters.”

    I guess that’s because on the one hand you expect something from the West without having to pay for it, and on the other hand you offer criticism of what is given. I called that ingratitude, and as an American it looks like another long winded example of “damned if you do, damned if you don’t. ” Too which I can only say Fuck Off, and fix your own problems.

    It’s the same with women never happy, incapable of gratitude, no good deed goes unpunished. In which case I seek not love and affection, but fear, respect, and obedience. As a practical matter it’s the best way to handle those who negotiate in bad faith.

  75. @Forge the sky
    “Basically it’s like she’s testing your frame first verbally, then if she can’t find an excuse to blow you out she starts checking your emotional congruence by looking at all your tiny facial sub communications (which are harder to fake), then she starts putting herself in your hands to see if you’ve got the balls to make shit happen.”

    Reads like a good date.

    “Knowing how to be proud is the essence of masculinity. Knowing when not to be is the essence of wisdom. But few men are wise.”

    Building in the outdoors gets tho to sink in. Wisdom is not something you can be told it’s an embodiment of all your life decisions. It’s learning all core parts of yourself.

    “Maybe an alpha tell is to remain detached even if she’s falling for you.”
    The prize and school

    @Softek
    “So maybe inner game is ultimately king, and outer game is the queen — the real key is having an unshakeable frame, an attitude that it doesn’t really matter what girls say to you or don’t say to you, because there’s nothing they can do that’s going to flip your world upside down. Or even make it budge.”
    That’s the redpill and serenity.
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QxwtIg91nME

  76. @Rollo
    “Sustain that contact for too long and it triggers defensiveness (creepy) because women interpret it as confrontational (attack posturing).”

    I agree with the rest of your comment and know the mechanic you’re talking about (I learned the same thing in martial arts when I was younger) but this is something I disagree with now for seduction. The PUA community taught the same thing, where you want to make eye contact but if you hold it too long it becomes creepy…and also we focused a lot on avoiding giving girls eye-contact easily like be aloof and look around instead of giving her your full attention.

    But after a lot of experimenting I find there’s no “too long” to this if you do it right (examples below).

    The consistent pattern that seems to happen is:

    1) We’re engaged in convo
    2) I focus on an eye as she’s yapping away
    3) She looks me in the eye as well and continues yapping for another 5-10 seconds, nothing unusual yet

    But then 4) after 5-10 seconds it’s as if her brain catches up to what’s happening and suddenly realizes I’m staring a little longer than I needed to and the best way my buddy and I can describe it is it’s like the point where the lasers “lock in” and it triggers tingles in her that catch her off guard

    5) As soon as that lock in point happens she’ll often trail off mid-sentence or start fumbling her words or forget what she was saying, or if she’s done talking she’ll say “…what??” with a smile, she’ll often mirror your motions too (raise a hand up to scratch your head and she’ll raise her hand up to adjust her hair) etc. She might glance away here because it’s intense but she’ll always look back wanting to experience it again.

    6) On top of it I find it becomes the opposite of the martial arts peripheral thing, she becomes less aware of everything around her and it’s like a bubble forms around the two of you. Her friends can be shouting at her or waving at her or some AMOG can be trying to talk to her and she doesn’t register any of it, once that lock in point hits it’s like everything fades to black except your eyes to her. I know it sounds retarded lol but I use this to keep a girl’s attention through cockblocks and stuff.

    7) From this lock-in point if I do stuff like slow my own speech down and introduce a lot of pauses our conversation will turn to pure fluff and just be like “ya…that’s cool……you like that thing huh?” “ya……I like it…….it’s cool…” “ya….” “ya….” like it’s just nonsense because we’re sub-communicating now and the words don’t really matter anymore.

    8) And from this point if I cut the space and step/lean my face a little closer to hers, the sexual tension will start blowing through the roof exponentially with every inch I get closer…I don’t look away at all, there’s no “it’s too long he’s a serial killer it’s creepy”, it’s just pure attraction spiking off the charts.

    This is a really consistent pattern and my buddy finds the exact same thing. This can be done with no previous attraction either, like you can be having a 100% platonic conversation with some store clerk chick and if you lock eyes and slow down and leave pauses etc. after about 10 seconds she’ll lock-in and you’ll feel it feels “different” and the convo will trail off and you’ll see her getting attracted.

    I think the big key is that it’s RELAXED eye-contact, it’s the lazy eye-contact that you make after having sex where it’s kind of droopy eye-lids thinking about sex, VS intense eye-contact.

    The guy in the 50 Shades of Grey movie doesn’t do it right, he makes the CREEPY intense kind of eye-contact. I legit think they told him “eye-contact is sexy so stare at her a lot” and he just went with what most people would do by default when told that.

    Check his eye-contact here, it’s just bug-eyed intense weird creepy shit that isn’t attractive:

    (0:42, 1:32, 1:39 in this trailer, this is bad eye-contact that will turn creepy)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfZWFDs0LxA&t=42s

    It’s too intense and aggressive/hostile. This is what most people think to do when you say “look at her with intense eye-contact tho” because that makes sense right?

    But contrast that with the lazy relaxed bedroom-eyes sexual eye-contact James Franco is giving here:

    (from 1:44 on but especially at 2:20 and after the other guy enters the room skip to 7:50)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4G0LlmSq-0&t=1m44s

    It’s a very different kind of eye-contact, this is the kind you would make if you’d just banged a chick out and were in that post-sex afterglow daze just admiring her as a sex object while she yaps away or walks around your apartment naked. It’s intense but in a different way…sexually intense instead of aggressively intense and there’s a slight bit of a knowing smile/eye-crinkle to it like you know a secret about her. You don’t have to close your eyelids as much as franco does he’s just a weirdly squinty-eyed dude, but like, that’s the most exaggerated version of it.

    There is NO LIMIT to doing the Franco style eye-contact, there’s NO point where that becomes “creepy” to her, it’s 100% a turn-on and spikes attraction.

    These are retardedly small nuances but this is the level a chick’s brain works on, guys won’t pick up a lot of this stuff but for girls being able to read these little cues (even if they’re reading them subconsciously/instinctively) is the difference between accidentally reproducing with a beta or getting raped or wasting time on a guy who’s pretending to be an alpha etc. or finding a legit “sexworthy” alpha that has her wondering why she can’t help but melt when he looks in her eyes and feels like he sees her soul and all that shit.

    (personally I don’t subscribe to woowoo ideas about energy and vibe so my theory is that I think it’s some kind of stimulus overload, like you can take in a bunch of little subcommunication signals at a time to form quick judgements of people and situations, but maybe the eye is just such a complicated kaleidoscope of stimulus that it’s an overload of shit to take in at once, kind of like looking directly into the sun or one of those laser pointers it’s just too much all at once because people show SO MUCH emotion in their eyes, but this is based 100% on bro-science and just my own way of describing it lol)

    Anyway there you go. Try it out the next time a girl is yapping at you. Experiment with it and practice getting to that lock-in point…you can do it on pretty much any girl anywhere at any time. Also you’ll find strippers do this to you too, they’re pros at it. When I do it to them they’re able to hold it with me but don’t fall into the lock-in daze that normal girls do, they view it as more of a challenge because they’re on shift and expecting to have a little battle they want to win if you try it on them. But with normal girls who aren’t expecting it it hits them hard. The strippers will do it to normal guys because they know it builds the feeling of a deeper connection with the guy.

    I actually had to unwire a lot of bad “don’t stare too long or she’ll think you’re creepy or that she’s too high-value” wiring when I started messing with this (and STILL have to remind myself consciously to do it a lot of the time). And to be fair I think a newbie trying this WOULD come off creepy because he doesn’t know how to subcommunicate the right shit when he does it so he ends up like Christian Grey in that trailer instead of James Franco. But I think guys who are intermediate/advanced should be looking into this. Again check the Liam McRae and Gambler vids on eye-contact that are in my archive (click my name) for breakdowns of this mechanic.

    You can use VERY little external game if you get this shit down. Like you don’t need kino and can get away with minimal/weak verbals because it’s all communicating on that subcommunication level. My way of describing it is it’s like you’re having a conversation above the table with the girl and that’s what everyone else sees, but when you lock-in you switch to having a REAL conversation via text message underneath the table and no one else really sees it or can read it but you end up paying less attention to what you’re saying above the table because the REAL conversation is happening under the table between you two. It sounds weird but try it out for a while and you’ll understand what I’m trying to describe lol

  77. YaReally – “This is a really consistent pattern and my buddy finds the exact same thing. This can be done with no previous attraction either, like you can be having a 100% platonic conversation with some store clerk chick and if you lock eyes and slow down and leave pauses etc. after about 10 seconds she’ll lock-in and you’ll feel it feels ‘different’ and the convo will trail off and you’ll see her getting attracted.”

    So that’s what that is!

    And I gotta say your description of things, how they are and they work is, for me, incredibly useful. Much of this stuff I’ve noticed but never completely understood what was happening. So I gotta say thanks, I appreciate the hell out the info you provide and manner you provide it.

    I’ve never enjoyed “game” for the sake of “game” but breaking it into a bunch of little observational experiments is a great deal of fun. Also because the goal is in repeating the experiment and comparing my observations to what you and others describe means every approach is a sort of win.

  78. “I guess that’s because on the one hand you expect something from the West without having to pay for it, and on the other hand you offer criticism of what is given.”

    Seems like I touched a raw nerve while speaking the truth.
    Thats an outrageously unsubstantiated allegation that I have placed an expectation on the West without pay.
    What has been given to me? what have I criticized about that has been given to me?
    Either you are hallucinating or projecting some one else onto me.

    ” I called that ingratitude, and as an American it looks like another long winded example of “damned if you do, damned if you don’t. ” Too which I can only say Fuck Off, and fix your own problems.”

    1. You need to be very specific about what me (specifically) owe you (specifically) for which I have to have gratitude.

    2. An inconsistency pointed out does not become invalid, if you think the entire world really owes a debt of gratitude to you.
    If you are really a smart man, you will look at the inconsistencies pointed out objectively and not move tangentially into gratitude and stuff.

    3.
    Obama just went to Kenya and criticized them for their homosexual laws.
    Kenyans criticized back asking Obama to put his own house in order in reference to the incident in Ferguson and many other unrests specific to black Americans.
    Does this means Obama hates Kenyans or the Kenyans hate the Americans?

    Is your and Glenn’s emotional quotient so low that you think criticism means hatred and ingratitude?

    4. It was Glenn who was singing peans of the WASP-copyrighted virtues.
    I had to remind him if the reneging of the treaties with native americans, breaking promises, disenfranchising and bending the rule of law ; corner stones of the WASP-copyrighted values.
    If no, then you guys just let GOTUS do all of that. Some sat quite on the sidelines , other prospered on the loot. Using gunboat diplomacy, to create havoc in other countries while keeping peace in yours so that prosperity comes running into your lands.

    Please elaborate me what kind of WASP virtues are these?
    Are you asking all other countries to adopt gunboat diplomacy and feed of others, so that investment capital comes rushing into the aggressor countries from victim countries?

    5. Currently, the dollar is called, “the currency of last resort”. Thats not exactly a platitude for the reserve currency if you understand the implications. It just means that the govt of the dollar holds the most effective nuisance value, right now.

  79. @Aelorne

    Stopped reading the other advice to you. WTF? It seems to be that you should get over it.

    According to you, this girl let herself be raped on roofies, multiple times. You are perfectly right to find this deeply disturbing. I would gtfo.

    I find the other advice bizarre. No, not all women are out there doing shit like that. Jesus. And even if that cuts down your options, that’s totally a reasonable decision. There are definitely girls I would rather be celibate than fuck.

    If you were pumping and dumping, that would be one thing. But you seem to be in some kind of relationship with her. The behavior you described suggests mental health problems. WTF are you still doing with this girl?

    This is a depressing slackening of expectations, and it suggests desperation. There is no question that men would rather sleep with innocents than sluts. I thought there was some consensus on that. Even within that range this is an egregious history of behavior. You can find a better girl than this, man.

  80. @Lucien

    Seconded. Some of the points earlier were about the futility of finding a perfect, pristine, innocent virgin who’s attractive and in her twenties. And that her perception of you as alpha is more important anyways. But it’s not hard to find girls who weren’t willing participants in multiple drug-fueled rape gangbangs. What the actual fuck.

  81. @YaReally

    Yup, what you’re describing matches my experience well. Like I was saying to Rollo, there does seem to be a variant of direct eye contact that’s sexual rather than aggressive. Like the difference between a smile, and baring your teeth in anger.

  82. @Aelorne

    I’m going to say more. The problem for you is this. The reason for your insecurity is this. You are not treating the girl like she deserves. That makes you a beta. This girl is an irredeemable whore. If saying that makes you uncomfortable, you are being beta. She knows that she is. If you treated her accordingly she would respect you (with other consequences, irrelevant to this point). That doesn’t mean the goal is gaining her respect. No. The goal is regaining your f*cking self-respect.

    Do you know how to show this girl disrespect? That’s the problem. A lot of us don’t even know how, we’ve never had the occasion. That’s some man sh!t though. Buck up and figure it out.

    Doesn’t matter how she reacts. The real question is, are you treating the things in the world around you like they deserve? If not, how can you call yourself a man?

  83. On the weakness of younger dudes these days: yeah. I used to be more insecure back when I was a teenager. Changed a lot since then, but the world around me has too. I used to feel threatened by jocks. Now I feel like they might be among the few people left who can actually understand me, who might have something in common with me (manhood of any sort whatsoever). So few of us you have to make alliances wherever you can.

    You might think it was all good for the last cocks standing, but there are problems. First, it sucks in everyday life when everyone around you is conspiring against masculinity. People are subtly threatened and made uncomfortable by it, there’s an instinct to bring you down if you don’t play by herd rules, no matter how subtly. So this is a problem in many lines of work.

    Second, depressingly, a lot of girls are too stupid to actually know what they want/what’s good for them. That whole thing about female sexuality being more malleable. You may turn them on, but they will be deeply conflicted about it, and this will make everything difficult and awkward. A lot of girls will straight up be afraid of you because they have literally never dealt with a real man before. In fact they’re taught to fear men. Understanding of masculinity is also at an all time low, and everyone fears what they don’t understand. My second gf, after some time into the relationship when we got comfortable with each other, actually told me she was afraid to sleep with me at first. (Note, this was not because she was inexperienced: just, to use her words, that she had never slept with a real man before!) I tell that because it still shocks me to hear something like that.

  84. Lucien, part of the problem is also that most of the few masculine men left are men who are sociopathic enough to ignore all the programing. The typical redpiller – men who are intelligent, well-balanced, and well-intentioned generally, but strong and smart enough to wake up from the matrix – are vanishingly rare.

    With a lot of girls, you need to either find them in a high-energy, risk-taking state – nightclubs, vacation – or you need to run a pretty warm, friendly sort of game. Old-school masculinity, rough-edged shit, works very well. But only if she has enough social reference for you to know you’re not cruel, or crazy.

  85. I was at a classic/muscle car event here last night. Got to drive a couple of bracket racers and a real testy 440 Dodge.

    Got out of the car and the guy next to me asks this kid about 18 or so if he wants to go next.

    The kid meekly declines.

    He doesn’t know how to drive a stick.

  86. “He doesn’t know how to drive a stick.”

    I used letting out a clutch as a simile a bit upstream. It was several minutes after I posted it when I thought, “Oh, wait . . .”

  87. @Badpainter

    One of my favorite articles of all time. Perfectly sums up everything that disturbed me throughout high school and college. And absolutely crucial to why manhood is in decline. See, especially, his thing at the end about football.

    @Forge the Sky
    “part of the problem is also that most of the few masculine men left are men who are sociopathic enough to ignore all the programing. The typical redpiller – men who are intelligent, well-balanced, and well-intentioned generally, but strong and smart enough to wake up from the matrix – are vanishingly rare.”

    Couldn’t agree more. In fact, most of those “few masculine men left” are in jail right now. I noticed on YouTube there are a lot of videos asking why people in prison are so “yoked.” Few have thought to suggest that it’s merely correlation: very high testosterone levels are probably a risk factor for ending up in jail, along with helping to build muscle.

    Another problem though for the “vanishingly rare” types is that identity is fundamentally social . . . I find my problem is not that people vilify men, so much as they don’t even process manhood as a thing in the world around them, except, I suppose, in their (ever-present) media consumption and fantasy life. If you see the world through a binary where there are real men who are wild, violent douchebags, and “good” men who are nice, effete losers, then you are merely confused when you see someone who does not divide that way. (Not to mention, you have a very tragic view of your sexual fate – i.e., you end up a feminist! That’s gotta be the etiology.)

    I feel like that’s always been a problem for me personally. I’m a smart guy, and when I show that intelligence – even without any other evidence about who I am – I think the presumption is against me being any kind of man. And today it’s very hard to convince people that those things can coexist; they don’t believe it until they see it. That’s a big problem with the fact that men face a higher burden of proof/performance today than they ever have. The more energy you expend on the nuts and bolts, the less room you have to achieve the higher, more complex reaches of masculine identity.

    The sophisticated playboy of yesteryear is gone!

  88. ya – good stuff – knew you had a take on it

    i was considering selling all my possessions and moving to a cave to play world of warcraft for the rest of my days

  89. @rollo: Question for you about this “being late to the party” dynamic. Part of the reason I resent my girlfriend is all the enormous amounts of CC she rode, and how I never really got into that scene in college (blue pill, not a natural). I resent the dudes who got those things with her, and that she wallowed in an exclusive world of which I was never a part.

    The weightlifting guru/philosopher Elliott Hulse has a quote about attempting to slay dragons you never got to earlier in life- how it’s wasted effort.

    Can one ever get over the dead weight of what you never were? There is a great quote that says “sometimes my bones ache under the weight of all the lives I never lived.” That captures the dynamic..

    I feel like I’m trying to make myself into what I wasn’t in college- in an attempt to live out all the things I didn’t in college- but that I’ll never achieve the satisfied retrospect of myself that all the people who “got it” have. Kind of like what Fitzgerald said about the rich: you’ll never be like those who were born rich, even if you achieve riches. They just perceive themselves differently. They are different from us.

    I am 27, not 21. And I’m not going to house parties and themed parties and frat parties and mingling with hundreds of 20 year old strangers giving themselves utterly to the thrill of life, for the first time. I’m not still in college. How do I escape the feeling I’m conducting my life and improvement around the pursuit of a cheap imitation of a world which a select few guys had privileged access? A world where my gf wallowed and was saturated with orgasmic experiences she shared and gave to them in genuine, inimitable desire and abandon- the organic spontaneity, virginity, and authenticity of which can’t really be recreated?

    Maybe the solution is that I just cannot abide a relationship with someone who wallowed in that world when I did not. For a LTR, only someone who didn’t experience that (like I did not) will do. Maybe I need to find someone who was late to the party too, or at least had limited access to the party, or never was there at all.

    Here is the post (weight lifting is the vignette he uses to set the metaphor):

    “When you’re young and you’re in full warrior mode and you’ve got that sword in your hand and you’re slaying dragons — as you should be — look, if you haven’t slayed your dragons at this point, you’re 40 years old and you haven’t slain the right dragons yet, you’re going to live your life in a constant state of sympathetic overload, stressed out trying to slay dragons that don’t exist.

    The only dragons left are the dragons inside us at that point. … What are you going to do? What do you have to prove anymore? There comes a point where if you haven’t proved yourself to yourself — because that’s all that really matters — (young guys, write that one down) the only one you have to prove yourself to is yourself. But I get it. You have to prove yourself to daddy and the world. Okay. I did it. I understand. But you need to get to a point where you’re done proving yourself.

    You [need to get to a point where you] can just relax and breath. Just take your time. Enjoy life. You’ve got to become a lot more Yin in your behaviors and attitudes. That place of low stress, high integrity about of the choices you make about your nutrition and the rest that you give your body will … preserve the foundation of vitality that was there when you were young … that allows you to do that you to do a select amount of physical activity that you deem important to you and your self development.

    Don’t do things you feel you “have to” do. You don’t have to gain 50 pounds of muscle when you’re 40. Again, you have nothing to prove. And if you still have something to prove at that point then you’ve got deeper issues than building muscle. Engage in things that you enjoy that will support your health.”

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