Admiration & Respect

admiration

One thing I really enjoy about doing the few interviews I’ve done is that they allow me to do a stream of consciousness dialog with another person. I like this because it’s very close to the internal dialoging I do when I’m writing notes or researching a topic. While I was talking with Christian McQueen last week the topic of respect came up and I riffed on this for a bit.

“Be with a woman that admires you… admiration creates a different kind of respect”

I’ve delved into the dynamic of respect in the past, but what I was getting at with this was the ways in which women and men differ in their views of respect. Towards the close of last weeks post I made mention of Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post on the womanly art of seduction. What I found interesting in her list of seductive qualities was that these aren’t really means of seduction, but rather mindsets women should adopt to maintain a healthy relationship.

As I mentioned in that post, women’s methods of seduction are a lost art, but those means lack real significance if there is no genuine desire for that man. Women can very easily seduce men today. So starved for intimate attention are the majority of men that they create the seductive narrative for themselves; all a woman need do is make it easy for him to believe.

On a woman’s part, seduction doesn’t require much. There was a time I did some investigation into the profiles of professional online escorts. I had followed some links Advocatus Diaboli had offered in a few of his posts about his dealing with escorts, and while there were the prerequisite “pros’ with pornstar bodies and manners to match, the majority of these women were semi-attractive “amateurs” you’d be surprised by if you saw them in casual clothes. These women tended to be in their 30s-40s but what was telling was how each gal sold herself to potential clients.

To the average frustrated husband or sexless mature man I have no doubt these women were like a tall glass of water in the desert. By my own standards they were average, but what I noticed was each woman’s profile offered some variation of “you’ve worked hard, isn’t it time you enjoyed the appreciation you deserve?”, “let me treat you the way you should be appreciated” or “you’ve earned a good time with a woman who knows how to please her man.”

For part-time semi-pro escorts I was impressed by how well they knew their demographic. My guess is more than a few were divorced, but found their ‘niche’ so to speak once they were set up with spousal support. Each of them sold themselves based on at least the feigned mindset which Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo proposed women (wives) adopt to seduce their men (husbands).

In that list the first of the two articles stood out the most:

Admiration

Virtually all men crave a woman who admires him.  A woman who will listen to him when he’s talking about something he finds interesting, or when he’s giving his opinion.  They want a woman who will be interested and fascinated with what he says – yes, I said fascinated.  It turns them on to be in the presence of a hot woman (his wife) who is also giving him her entire attention and the right kind of feedback that says, “You are such an interesting man!  Omg I want you!  Now!!!”

When was the last time you reacted to your husband like that?  I know… us wives are ridiculously tired, over-achieving, too much to do, have kids hanging off our legs at any moment when we’re at home (or out… at the store trying to deal with a meltdown).  I understand, I’m a wife and mother of two now.  But guess what?  Your husband craves this kind of thing, and if this need is met by you, he will move mountains to ensure your happiness.

Of these two, admiration is the most important. Feigned admiration is the stripper’s secret (as well as the semi-pro escort’s). To the man unused to genuine admiration (that is to say 80%+ of them) this becomes his worst thumbscrew and source of manipulation. Sexual ‘thirst’ is certainly a factor, but men inherently realize the sexual attraction value that a woman’s admiration represents for themselves.

Part of men’s conditioning is recognizing the effect that simple social proof to overt fame has on women. Smart men figure out how to leverage this to their advantage as a part of Game, but most are so starved of that admiration that even marginal displays from women are enough to convince him her intents are genuine.

Truth or Compliments

Private Man had an interesting post regarding his tweet on compliments from women:

My response was thus:

“Compliments = IOIs (Indicators Of her Interest in the man). 80%+ of men are Betas, thus compliments are a rare. Can’t have Betas get the wrong ideas.”

Compliments are considered an expression of admiration for men, but largely supplication for women. In the past I’ve gone into detail about how compliments for women need to be sparse because, for the greater part of women, compliments have very little value to them. In an age of social media and ‘quick-hit ego boosts’ from her girlfriends and symps, compliments are common.

What’s scarce is valuable, so the rare compliment from a high-value Alpha is a solid reinforcer for a woman – from a Beta compliments are a liability; they are an overt expression of interest from a man she has very little interest in beyond his utility to her.

For that same reason, women giving compliments to men they have no genuine admiration for also becomes a liability – even if that liability is just implied to herself. Ergo, women rarely express admiration for a man they genuinely have no true admiration of – it’s too risky. This is why women must be taught (as in Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post) to be conscious of, and attentive to, delivering compliments to men they’ve committed to, but regard as Beta. Left to their natural impulses women simply avoid complimenting men they have no desire to be held accountable to.

Private Man asks:

What’s wrong with reinforcing a man’s confidence through a compliment? Women adore confident men. The compliment is the opposite of the shit test where a woman tests the mans adversity by artificially creating that adversity by herself.

Not to run him up the flagpole (I have a deep respect for PM), but Private Man answers his own question inadvertently. Women do adore confident men, but by definition a confident man wouldn’t need any reinforcement of that confidence. Once again, women want a man who ‘Just Gets It‘. Any (Alpha) man a woman has a genuine admiration of doesn’t need a confidence boost from her – in fact that boost, and the implied need of it, only raises Hypergamous doubt for her.

Just as with the differing concepts of love and communication, men tend to presume that their concept of admiration is the universal one. The aspects and considerations men base their admiration of other men on are not the same that women use for men. I outlined this a bit in Hysteria, but there is a uniquely female precondition of unqualified social proof women entertain for themselves as a component to their arousal that men (at least heterosexual ones) don’t have for other men.

In other words men who women are unfamiliar with are an unverified commodity to women with regard to arousal / attraction. As you can see in the videos I linked in Hysteria, this unfamiliarity with a man’s real social value (and associated SMV) are easily mimicked when they control the environment and situation. It’s this unfamiliarity and a want to believe in the possibility that a man may possess fame or even simple third-party social esteem that leads to an easy admiration for a man women have just met or are only casually familiar with.

Imaginings

Women’s imagination is one of the best tools in a man’s Game toolbox, but this is so because Hypergamous doubt is also Hypergamous prospect. The same Hypergamy that predisposes a woman to opportunistic sexual strategy also drives her imaginings about its potential fulfillment by unfamiliar men. It’s far easier for a woman to imagine she should admire a man she doesn’t know than for her to appreciate a man she’s already intimately familiar with anything close to that same admiration.

This is what men idealistically want to believe about admiration coming from their wives and long-time girlfriends – that it’s just as sincere as the expressions of admiration, the compliments and inspiration, she’s naturally disposed to give to men she’s unfamiliar with, even when that man was himself when they first met. Compliments and admiration are less believable, not to mention far less forthcoming, when a woman is aware of the person you “really” are in an LTR because hypergamous prospect turns to hypergamous doubt.

As I mention in Frame, the dominant frame you establish and enter into a relationship with sets the tone for that relationship. Sincere admiration and genuine desire are key components to setting that frame before you enter into an LTR or marriage.  You will never experience a more sincere admiration from a woman than while you are single and uncommitted. Her imagination fills in the blanks for her perception of you because you represent the potential of fulfilling her sexual strategy (either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks). Once you are committed and a woman has had those blanks filled in by her familiarity with you, admiration and compliments (if any) become something women need to be taught and reminded are something they ought to maintain to keep men interested in them by necessity.

If there is no admiration expressed from a woman while you’re single, or you’ve got to fish for compliments, or you’ve got to plead your case to her that you are someone she should admire, never enter into any kind of commitment with her.

Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s next article of seduction was respect:

Respect

How many men crave respect?  All of them.  They want to be known as the leader of their house, they want their wives to defer to them for decisions – but they want their wives to genuinely do it out of the feeling of respect, not just half-heartedly ask their husbands what they think, but to let them know that they are expressly interested in their husband’s response because of who he is.

They want a woman who looks up to them – who doesn’t try to outshine them or put them down – but who greatly esteems them and their opinions on matters (this ties in directly with Admiration).  They don’t want a wife who will constantly argue and bicker with them over decisions and details, or one who challenges them and their headship constantly.

Respect amongst men and respect amongst women are, again, two differing concepts. GWADT describes her impression of what she perceives men would want in terms of respect from their spouses, but this outline ignores the basic principles of the Desire Dynamic – respect is valueless if it’s an obligation, you cannot negotiate a genuine respect. Men understand this because respect between men is something that is earned, whereas constant social conditioning makes respect for women something to be expected.

Respect for a woman is a given and as such, like compliments, it becomes so cheap a commodity to women they have no concept that it means something entirely different amongst men. In fact, Blue Pill conditioned men are so socially insaturated in a default “respect” for women that it’s become an article of Beta Game among them. Properly trained White Knights make a competition of “out-respecting” one another with their declarations of respecting women. They believe it sets them apart from “other guys” who don’t respect women and thus make them uniquely in touch and identifying with what they’ve been taught women want.

The next time you see some self-evincing meme declaring “a real gentleman does X for a woman” posted on Facebook by one of your Blue Pill friends you’ll understand how valueless the term respect really is to women. I hit on this in my post Respect:

Masculine Respect

So this is my point, women don’t respect men, or rather, they don’t respect the masculine – and most certainly don’t have a default respect for it. They’re taught to be adversarial, not cooperative. Women are taught to relinquish respect, and then only begrudgingly when a man has proven his quality beyond the reach of most men. Masculinity is popularly ridiculed in western culture as it is, but to respect a man is to compete with him, to out-masculine him. Cooperation or even recognizing that the genders could be complimentary is viewed at best as antiquated, at worst, sublimation to the male imperative.

Women have very little incentive for learning to defer to a man with a default respect when respect for women is already a social entitlement – that is the frame of reference women have with respect. Even average fathers seldom experience an organic respect from their daughters unless they are taught (usually by example) to appreciate the qualities that make him respectable. Women in the workplace presume they’re being treated with a default professional respect, but any respect that’s afforded them generally begins with that default ‘Respect for Women’® dynamic that 80%+ of men already believe is their due.

When men express respect for other men it’s usually because they’ve in some way earned it or earned a respectable office. That’s not always the reality, but it is the general presumption that respectable men are “leaders of their house” (business, position, team or rank) and makers of the decisions others follow because they have earned it. Think about the men you genuinely respect. Why do you respect them? What have they done to merit your deference of respect to them?

The way a man considers these aspects differs from how a woman considers these aspects. Respectable Men are keenly aware of a respect offered to them due to obligation as opposed to a genuine, considerate and introspective respect. So when a woman who presumes she holds a default authority humbles herself, and magnanimously allows a man she’s told she should respect a degree of deference, that man understands it’s her obligation and not a genuine respect he’d experience from other men.

Indeed, men do want a woman who looks up to them, admires them and respects them, but too many men don’t recognize the motivators behind women expressing them. Many Beta men make a joke out of their wives being “the real boss” or how she “puts up with him.” They have no concept, much less any expectation, of an organic, uncoerced masculine admiration, respect or even a compliment, so it’s no surprise when they can’t discern between a real expression of sincerity and one motivated by manipulation or obligation.

Lastly, ladies, the best compliment you can give a man is with your body and consideration. Unexpected gestures, being an imaginative lover, staying in shape because you want to please a man, are the best expressions of genuine desire, admiration and respect. Nothing conveys real appreciation for a man better than the unsolicited desire you reserve for Alpha Fucks. You want him to know you admire and respect him? Initiate sex with him, often and with intensity.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Hobbes
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Glenn hit on something of note.. I think we, as men, misinterpret womens behavior by projecting onto them our experiences. In specific, we underestimate just how much of a social creature a woman is compared to us.. so when we watch women behaving a certain way, in mass, we assume it must be some biological/limbic reason behind it.. while sometimes true, I think we are missing just how much her behavior comes from being a creature trapped in the hive mind. For us, the hive mind literally causes us cognitive dissonance when the FI tries to program us against our… Read more »

DeNihilist
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And just like that, Chateau supplies more ammo to Rollo’s thesis. (are you sure you 2 don’t talk about upcoming posts? smile )

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/

Sun Wukong
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@Hobbes Doing anything for a man- a husband- has been hammered into womens heads as demeaning and beneath her My ex was quite young (19 when we started dating) and a virgin. She was actually under the impression that doggy style sex was demeaning to the woman until I pounded her in to a toe-curling screaming (and I mean screaming like she was being murdered) orgasm for the first time in her life. Honestly, every time I see these stupid bull dyke feminist influences convincing women of shit that actually keeps them from enjoying some of the most wonderful things… Read more »

Hobbes
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@sun- don’t get me started. I had similar experiences. It is always shocking to me how much women judge based on how her social circles judges things. With my last ltr I actually questioned her alot on “what she believed” because she really thought about it, as opposed to what she believed because she was “supposed” to believe, and I was constantly amazed that there was almost no unique person beneath the surface. Her opinions, beliefs, likes and desires were always determined by “shoulds” and “have-to’s”

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@lh @notbornthismorning Hey this book helped me understand me life from your post http://www.amazon.com/The-Boy-Raised-Psychiatrists-Notebook-What/dp/0465056539 The brain adapts in any way to sexual violation. When I said a page back one should dump any women lacking admiration of course I didn’t talk about making demands or even dread game, you can’t talk about that at all. I was talking about pure action. For me the lack of admiration is just the sign it’s over and time to go for the next. @dragonfly: There is not much disagreement between us to keep the discussion running. Regarding the idea of how to educate… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@lh

I meant to say that your post represents a good portion In the women in my family. In transferred in the real world badly leading on multiple attempts on my own life.

Sun Wukong
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Dragonfly
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LOL Glenn you crack me up. You lecture me on raising my son, yet you’ve done such a great job that you’ve managed to raise a feminist, rebellious, father-hating daughter.

Karma is a bitch.

Striver
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The importance of physical prowess/dominance is overblown. Don Knotts and Wally Cox were ladies men. Yes, they were actors and made some coin, but still. Most important thing for a guy is to learn to be able to talk. More Toastmasters and fewer workouts. The Man’s Man is what men think women should like. That can be a successful route for some, but confidence is more important than the package. A lot of the guys at the top of the female drool list are fairly androgynous or effeminate. Not the roughest of the rough. But guys who are insecure in… Read more »

Hobbes
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Striver- very true. probably the most successful, with women, guys I know is about 140 lbs wet, about 5’7” kind of effeminate and has admitted- regularly- to having sucked a cock or two. But, he’s a funny guy, very social, people like him instantly and pretty. He is also chronically unemployed, broke and now in his mid 30s with no career, prospects or even an apt of his own. The guy slays with women. It’s crazy. Social skills, knowing what to say, etc goes a long long way. One thing I do notice is he has great game. Never feels… Read more »

Glenn
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GWADT – Correction, my ex wife raised a father hating daughter – get the facts straight, and she also would not call herself a feminist. She’s just inherited the family tradition of disposing of men, just like her Mom and Grandma – all the girls are doing it, haven’t you heard? But lets get into it. Can you not see the absurdity of a Mom trying to make her boy an Alpha? Your boy is being Alpha when he ignores you and laughs at you when you tell him what to do. But there is much more to this than… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Hobbes
I got a question
This man you know how long have you known him? Does he place women before himself as to not make them a compliment in rollos terms? Does he ever talk about a field he is interested in? Is there a specific reason he didn’t have a place to stay?
Curious because I can relate in a lot of what you describe about him?

Glenn
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Guys, believe me or not, like it or not, it’s all true. But really, the war stories were not the point – it was just liberating to actually talk about it. I really don’t ever talk about this shit, it’s like a no-go zone in society, yet another aspect of masculinity we’ve shamed into obscurity. Perhaps I shouldn’t have here as I didn’t want to derail an excellent discussion. My point was to ask these questions. If Alpha is, at it’s most basic, being dominant in a group, from where does this quality emanate? Why does a person feel they… Read more »

Dragonfly
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but I did 15 yrs of therapy and other work to channel and funnel anger. Hint: One of the places I blow off steam is on websites/comments, lol.

OMG! We’d never be able to tell, Glenn… you hide your anger sooooo well.

lol

rugby11ljh
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https://archive.org/details/Apocalypto2006-HistoricalAction-adventureMovie

Got into ultra running and this film explains how people can and will treat each other a little after the dinosaurs but in most of not all society’s this has some element of alpha that I so sad to see kied away in modern culture.
@glenn don’t take any shit about not finding a place to share you story share it whever you please for the sake of you.

Dragonfly
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I like you, I really do. You remind me of my asshole brother. wink

Striver
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Trying to reconcile something Glenn wrote with what I have heard my soon to be ex say and others. Glenn wrote that when his daughter was young, women he dated didn’t like the fact that his daughter would always be first instead of them. But my wife and other women have left marriages claiming they are tired of giving or taking care of their husbands. I am trying to imagine those statements coming from the same woman and having them make sense. Let’s do a formula showing how women might think of a relationship. We’ll call it Women’s Objective Relationship… Read more »

Badpainter
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I have simple test for respect. Is she ready to leave on time? If she’s always more than 5 minutes late getting ready then she has no respect. To confirm if she is always on time for work, girlfriends, family, etc. she has no respect. Automatic next. I allow three strikes then go ghost.

Same goes for the toilet seat issue. More than three complaints about leaving the seat up and demote to booty calls only.

M Simon
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You know what women admire? The attraction of other women to you. I pretty much openly game the fm. She suggested we go out last night. I promised her in my acceptance that I would be going after other women with the intent of bringing one home with us or at the very least getting the fm hot from the attraction of other women to me. Well it worked. I got one number lots of IOIs and the fm is very hot for me. I’ll remind her this morning and see about getting something going. She is of course annoyed… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Dragon – I have 5 sisters (well 2 full, one half and two ex step sisters) – but you don’t remind me of any of them. 4 out of 5 of them love me like crazy – I could move into any of their houses tomorrow, and I’ve been a father figure to two of them in real, material ways. The fifth is mixed on me, but this only happened once she fully digested her radfem ideology and then lived into it in the Prog-Topia that is Montreal for 10 years – and oh yeah, only after she finally… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Hobbes – I think you are misunderstanding me. The arousal of hetero women by many types of sexual images while men are only aroused by images of hetero sex isn’t speculative on my part, it’s been studied many times, do some Googling. Women’s entire sexuality is more plastic than men’s. This is why you get women kissing – not just because it’s perhaps a social status improvement, it’s also sexually exciting for them. We don’t do it because there is no sexual excitement. It’s also why women can go happily without sex for long periods of time. Consider bisexuality… Read more »

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“I don’t hate you and don’t want to scrap with you. I just want to be left alone here, with other men. I can’t make you stop, I know, and many men here may not wish the same. But there it is.” Rollo has made it clear that women are permitted to comment here. If this decision makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you should run your own blog and forbid women from posted. Alternately, you might avoid signaling them out first and attacking for no good reason. For example, Dragonfly did not address you until you made the following commentary: “GirlWithDragons… Read more »

Dragonfly
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Uh oh Liz, now he’s gonna call you ugly, say you don’t know anything… it’s actually a song and dance he craves (which is why he always tries to get into it with me). These are his only tools of verbal communication. Like an abused dog, he can’t tell when there are people who don’t want him to fight or be dominated. Glenn, you’re easy to manipulate into losing face because 1) you’re already angry, and 2) you want to fight. You came from abuse though, which is probably why you had to play a father role. My father is… Read more »

Liz
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Per “ugly”
It’s okay. I am a dog after all. wink
(for some reason that one never gets old to me with this new avatar…)

I try not to get personal (I don’t know anyone’s story, and everyone is coming from a different place), and I don’t read all of the comments. Often I don’t read the comments at all.
That particular one I had to go back to to understand what was going on when the discussion turned south.

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@Dragonfly Admiration and respect These are his only tools of verbal communication. Like an abused dog, he can’t tell when there are people who don’t want him to fight or be dominated. (This is a huge thing for me) I ha to reprogram not having in any male influence by admitting how wrong I was and respecting the people who hating my gender with deep conviction growing up. Dogs where a great example to learn from. Your intention is what most dogs I hung around would pick up on. My sister would get scared of violent dogs and I would… Read more »

Mr T.
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Not in defense of Glenn.

If I were the husband of Dragonfly!
1,
I would never ever ever allow you to get involved with the manosphere .
2,
I would ask you to remove all the photos of yourself from your blog.
3,
I would have to deal with your attention whoring disorder.
Ps
Do yourself a service and take down all your photos and specially the one you have (you know, when you make a little space in the middle? ).
Ps
I am just trying to help nothing personal.

sjfrellc
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@Glenn “One of the places I blow off steam is on websites/comments, lol. I hope that doesn’t piss too many people off here, but I don’t talk this way in real life. I’m much nicer to people most of the time.” Intellectual online debate is a perfect surrogate for how men were hard-wired in an evolved pre-civilized society and now must operated in a Fem-Centric society. And a failing one at that. Jack Donovan has a chapter called “A Check to Civilization” in The Way of Men. He has a well thought out essay in regards to “As prosperity and… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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Admiration and respect
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFVmDotBYkI
Solitude vs isolation
Isolating is not part of human nature. Men don’t hunter for tribe alone unless it’s a right of passage.
Women never have to.

Mr T
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@M simon

M Simon
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Mr T
April 11th, 2015 at 1:27 pm

The response I get is she wants to jump my bones. When she is real hot for me she puts out “I want to have your children” vibes. And admits it. She had four. We were discussing it last night. She is very happy with the results.

We were also discussing her dislike of Betas. Men that don’t give her tingles don’t interest her. She can’t even fake it.

DeNihilist
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Mr T., I think this one is more appropriate!

Sun Wukong
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@Liz

Rollo has made it clear that women are permitted to comment here.

Just because one can do something doesn’t necessarily mean they should. Women commenting here often demonstrate that.

sjfrellc
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“Just because one can do something doesn’t necessarily mean they should. Women commenting here often demonstrate that.” “I try not to get personal (I don’t know anyone’s story, and everyone is coming from a different place), and I don’t read all of the comments. Often I don’t read the comments at all. That particular one I had to go back to to understand what was going on when the discussion turned south.” Facepalm. Very solipsistic. No evidence is presented as to “the discussion turned south”. I saw no turn south. In my estimation, Glenn and Dragonfly presented coherent, equally believable… Read more »

Hobbes
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@Glenn- I think you may have misunderstood me as well. When I say “hive mind”I do not mean women are Borglike creatures, but being descriptive to get my point across.. although for us men who are geared towards individualism, the impression is one of hive mind, or followers if you prefer. Nothing dehumanizing about it was intended.. so either I didn;t choose my words right, or you’re taking it all too literally. As to the study on female sexual fluidity- I am well aware of that research and what I am saying in no way contradicts it, but helps to… Read more »

Liz
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“No evidence is presented as to “the discussion turned south””

Well, if that’s what you believe you are entitled to your opinion (and no doubt, this being an unmoderated forum I’ll get to hear it again and again unless and until I “solipsistically” choose to spend my time more constructively) then your idea of “intellectual online debate” is obviously much different from mine.

Dragonfly
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Mr T. – My husband has thought of pulling the plug on the manosphere involvement – especially since Rollo’s linked to my blog I’ve had a little more (weird stuff) to deal with. I’ve definitely thought of separating from it now… totally rejecting it.

Mr T
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@Rollo
thank you for your blog and books , they were a vindication for what I always believed and it was reading your blog and book that removed any cloud from my sight .
I am done here and thank you again .
as they say if you sit too long under the master`s feet they will stink.
so master thank you again for your mind.
ps
Dragonfly
it wasnt Rollo`s link to your blog , it was you and I think it is not a good idea for a young woman with two boys and a husband to be in a man`s space .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsM_VmN6ytk

rugby11ljh
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Goodbye Mr.T

The collection of farthers sons never had.

sjfrellc
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Liz, My idea of intellectual online debate in regards to the The Rational Male blog is to carry the ball forward (not cry foul, penalty) in males discussing behavioral and evolutionary psychology to advance the Male Imperative. I’m not about going to sit around and let my 23 year old daughter behave like young chicks behave these days, nor let my son @20 be a neutered pussy Blue Pill wanna be. If you could expand on what The Rational Male stands for ideologically for the cause of men , I for one would appreciate your input. Otherwise your thoughts above… Read more »

Dragonfly
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I’ll vouch for Liz Online presence

sjfrellc
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Outside of this blog. I’m sure she shines. I’m sure she posts good Feminine Imperative stuff, When it is about self affirming women’s stuff. When it comes to affirming men in regards to Admiration and Respect, in this thread at least, she falls short. Her words here don’t advance her cause. Yours Do. You are genuine Dragonfly. Rollo recognizes your genuineness. I do too Dfly. Liz doesn’t measure up in her unmeasured responses. Patently obvious. Don’t stand up for Liz if she can’t advance the line that Rollo espouses. Red Pill. Masculine centric. I’m so tired of the Fem-Centric idea… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@sjfrellc

Obvious conclusion from GWADT’s blind spot: AWALT.

She might have some redeeming qualities, but in the end remember that she’s female too no matter how many times she’s learned to espouse things you approve of. Start ignoring that and that’s when you’ll get bit.

http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/24/the-pet/

Dragonfly
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“Both of them were professionally handled by trainers, but even though they seemed the most docile of animals I knew they had the potential to seriously fuck me up under the wrong set of circumstances. ”

“The flaw is in believing that trust, and kinship is unconditional; that the underlying feral motivators are subdued to the point of being inconsequential. It may be that you do have a special bond that goes beyond just the physical, but that relationship is still founded on physical rules that constantly test and influence that individual.”

It’s true. Sun Wukong is right.

rugby11ljh
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Admiration and respect Admiration and respect https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJKd0rkKss http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00N4G0P8E/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?qid=1428808281&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=Richard+Proenneke&dpPl=1&dpID=51q0W0NUOKL&ref=plSrch http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke “Needs? I guess that is what bothers so many folks. They keep expanding their needs until they are dependent on too many things and too many other people… I wonder how many things in the average American home could be eliminated if the question were asked, “Must I really have this?” I guess most of the extras are chalked up to comfort or saving time. Funny thing about comfort – one man’s comfort is another man’s misery. Most people do’t work hard enough physically anymore, and comfort is not easy to… Read more »

M Simon
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DeNihilist April 11th, 2015 at 3:18 pm Both you and T are missing it. I have been RP training her. She knows her nature and is willing to use it to her advantage. I’m usually 10 to 20 years ahead of trends so consider this a harbinger. Women are attracted to a man that attracts other women. RP truth. And you are correct that the usual female response is “if he doesn’t want just me I’m dumping him.” My relationship with the fm is proof that at least some women can to some extent accept their RP nature. I have… Read more »

Liz
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“Don’t stand up for Liz if she can’t advance the line that Rollo espouses.”

I confess, I didn’t know I was supposed to “advance a line”.
But then, I didn’t know it was solipsistic to pick and choose what I decide to read in my spare time either. Is this some sort of cult?
Nevermind. Once again, I’ll stick to just reading the articles and skip the comments section.

Glenn
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@sifrellc – “Congratulations on getting through the easiest part of life” – While you have many good lines, this was perhaps the best ever. @Hobbes – Plastic = Malleable. Hive mind really connotes that the lower order participants have little individual agency, hence my drawing the distinction. I do think we agree though. Ladies, just note that I never said you shouldn’t be permitted to comment here, rather I made the same plea I’ve made many times. Why can’t women realize that men actually want and need male spaces? Why can’t you just let a male dialog proceed without your… Read more »

Glenn
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@sifrellc – Wow, that Jack Donovan stuff is mindblowing, I’ve somehow missed him until now. I just bought the book and will read it. He makes much clearer what I was inaptly trying to get at. There is something essential about physical violence wrt masculinity, and the lack of it is probably a huge adjustment for men. Just think about how safe we are compared to 100 or 200 years ago? Hell, up until the late 19th century, famines used to take out chunks of human civilization in the West – and violence/war was sometimes about fighting over food. Think… Read more »

sjfrellc
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Liz, “Law 38 Think as you like but Behave like others If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality [Ed., or your un-originality…] only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.” Got it Sun Wukong, thanks. “Then there are those who accept the… Read more »

BuenaVista
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sjrfrellc: you should probably be hall monitor for your own blog, and I’d appreciate it if you would not decide (for me and others) what “lines” are acceptable, by which commenters, in an unmoderated blog. Liz is the most RP woman I’ve encountered online in the past couple of years. Based on what you and she write, she’s certainly more RP than you.

Try editing or censoring yourself before trying to edit, censor, or mysteriously summarize the motivations of people.

rugby11ljh
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Mr T I hope you aren’t gone and keep saying what you have to say. That other post was from the first book the stick with me from all the comments you said it was from rollos first book. As for te last post Shaun Ellis red pill down to the core comes to mind
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j4vFBXOoHs0

BuenaVista
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Not a typo: in a market research study focused on married Christian women, two (2) percent identify improving the marital relationship as a wife and partner as their primary charge. Essentially, the men in their lives simply don’t exist. These are supposedly conservative Christian women, though the data show they are ignorant or disinterested in Biblical instruction and follow a kind of self-celebrating ‘mommie and Jesus have a relationship’ pop religion. Rank order of surveyed women’s “Goals in Life”: 36% — be a parent/mother. 25% — achieve faith-oriented goals 6 % — health 5% — career 4% — lifestyle 4%… Read more »

sjfrellc
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Heheh, I for one welcome feminine comments. And Liz may be more RP than I. I responded to what she said and implied. Not who she is. No offense intended.

I’m not trying to moderate. I’m just offering an opinion. She doesn’t have to take her ball and go home.

I entirely respect Dragonfly’s words and exhortations. I have little respect for Liz’s disparagement of Glenn above or her claim that the back and forth between Glenn and Dragonfly was taking the discussion south. Both had well thought out and said points.

Glenn,
Donovan’s book is an exposition on Rollo’s excellent essay:

http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/21/positive-masculinity-vs-equalism/

ManlyMan
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As usual the point of Glenn’s request goes right over women’s heads.
What Glenn says about men wanting men only spaces is absolutely true. Alas our “red pill” (lol) women will have none of it.

In addition ladies, if you’re gonna stick yer fingers in your ears and say “Blah blah blah Daddy Rollo lets us comment here” you simply reinforce the reasons Rollo DOES let women post here….to serve as examples of AWALT.

Perfectly demonstrated, ladies.

PS- Buena Vista, go white knight somewhere else.

Emily L
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Hey BV-thanks for the wine suggestion. It took a while for it to arrive, but when it finally did, I really enjoyed it!

Emily L
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For what it’s worth: What’s to stop female commenters from using male names? And how do we know those who say they are men really are men? Granted a person would have to be seriously fucked up in the head, among other things, to pretend to be a man commenting on blogs….. It speaks volumes to the effect men let women have on them. As for the original post, not sure that creating desire/respect/admiration is the best place to be in a relationship, but considering, I guess, how things are in the world today, these are great reminders for people… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Dragonfly – Listen to your husband…And also get that you are probably the nicest woman in the world to ever piss me off so much. I bet if we met on another blog or in real life I’d be nice as a peach to you. It’s just that when you talk about alphaing up your son and husband, and you hector women to “act as if” sexually, well, it strikes me as so FI informed and ridiculous. I don’t want a woman to “act” like she’s attracted to me. I just don’t want her to make a deal to… Read more »

BuenaVista
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Well, at least within the Christian set, according to Barna, 98% of women are not even investing emotion or thoughts in recognizing their husband’s existence, much less attempting seduction or any other relationship-building exercise.

rugby11ljh
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@Gleen

Perhaps you also don’t get that there isn’t another place on earth where I can speak about this? That the entire world isn’t a “safe space” for men to speak the truths I speak here? – The point is that female biology and culture conspire to make any affection a man gets from a woman conditional and only in the moment – with the right reserved to withdraw it at any time.

Holy hell Aint that the truth. My uncle I love dearly once said after being an his third divorce “don’t ever lose your male friends”

Glenn
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@BV – Great cite, thanks for it. And these are self-identified Christian women! Only 2% actually even think about making their marriage a priority in their lives. In the end, I bet other women would score the same. Was there any cross-cultural data? Of course, we should see the same data for men, but then again it’s the women bailing out of marriages at alarming rates, so we are trying to figure them out. This speaks to the utilitarian view women have of men. It’s funny, I’m much more careful of the women in my life now wrt how much… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@rugby That would be the ol’ “Bros before hoes” line of thinking. It’s valid to a point. Unfortunately most of the “bros” you’ll meet these days are kept so thirsty that they’ll turn on you as fast as any woman. Of the 5 times in my life I’ve tried to make a serious relationship with a woman, 2 have ended with the women running off with very close male friends. If you can find men you can trust, surround yourself with them. If you’re not sure how you determine trustworthiness, I’ve found it to actually be pretty simple: if a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@sjfrellc, Glenn

I’ve seen Donovan mentioned a lot. Think I might check his book out after I finish reading 48 Laws of Power and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Water Cannon Boy
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Re-read “Services Rendered”. In it you had this paragraph about guarding the secret of the transactional element of sex. “Naturally, women will reinforce the opposite perception. It’s in the feminine’s interest to shame and deride any man pointing out the Achilles heel in their equation. It’s equally important to shame and deride her sisters who’d make a living from practicing the same truth they need to repress. Gold Diggers, Attention Whores, they’re both threats of overtly exposing the mechanics behind the feminine imperative – which is essentially an exchange of provisioning for sexual service – so they must be marginalized… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
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Now also re-read Hysteria and the part about denial. The part where you talk about where a person internalizes a mental schema, if you attack that or question it, to them it becomes a personal attack.
And you bring up Zerlina Maxwell’s automatically believing rape claims article. What you said explains how people in her twitter have called her crazy or ridiculous. But when I merely point out that I see that she change the headline from automatically believing to generally believing, she blocked me.

rugby11ljh
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@water cannon boy No that would happen in area where it’s going an already la miami and Nevada perhaps Germany and the Netherlands @Sun Wukong An my team three people had the girlfriends with them in one season and lost the all to other players on other teams after we beat them and when to their house party’s it was really hard to admit but they left each one looking for a better relationship. That was one thing that got me started on red pill thinking. The burden of performance and not knowing shit about anything with intergender dynamics and… Read more »

Glenn
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@ rugby – I’m in sales and it’s the same thing – a ton of rejection. Men need to get good at being rejected.

Sun Wukong
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@WCB

Think that prostitution might spread in it’s legality at some point?

No. That would be competition, and if there’s one thing that’s clear when you’re looking at a woman weighing north of 200lbs it’s that she don’t want to compete if she doesn’t have to.

Dragonfly
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Rollo, are you kidding?

Sunshine Mary’s gone AWOL on everyone… not to mention, last I remember she was lying about her life – living a double life (one on the internet and one in real life). Besides, her group of churchy-church women already hate me LOL… seriously, I’ve seen at least 3 posts written about me – Oh I’m Satan – no wait, “Dragon,” because I wrote the Art of Seduction post.

At the very least, if they’re talking about me… I’m stirring them up. But on a whole, I’m not “pure” enough for them.

rugby11ljh
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@Dragonfly
Tha sounds like the sisters I grew up with. I found this article on Google that talks about that from a women’s perspective (morality) and all http://feminismandreligion.com/2013/09/24/the-purity-complex-are-men-really-less-affected-than-women-by-andreea-nica/
Social shame is really really powerful and makes it hard to respect someone when for women it’s used from what I observe religion to justify the very thing the religion would like to alter. Seems like a beta hell. Least for me.

Sun Wukong
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@Dragonfly

Don’t tell me you missed his subtext there.

Disappointing.

Paul
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Hey Rollo, quick question what’s your opinion on attainability will low value women not risk talking to high value men to protect there ego from rejection even if it would be the best chance of hypergamy? http://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-staying-out-auto-rejection This article explains it really well.
Cheers
-Paul

Water Cannon Boy
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Paul, they do that when the say that the men should always do the approaching. Puts the responsibility and risk on the man. That way, if a guy who is interested in her, she just has to flirt a little. That’s why you hear some women brag about being able to get any guy they want. If they guy she really wants, the high value ones, isn’t interested, she can just claim she didn’t want him. And will have plenty of ready excuses as to why. And each one supported socially as well as thru pop culture. Things like not… Read more »

rolotomazi
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i can’t help but see this girl as a classic example of privilege run amok:
https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/guest-columnist-kaytlin-bailey

Sun Wukong
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@rolotomazi

First comment:

“Go girl”

Modern First World zeitgeist makes me sick sometimes now that I understand it.

The Diplomat
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@Sun

Understanding it makes you stronger. Disgust is a reasonable reaction–but amused, worldly understanding is the target zone you want that doesn’t take you toward the bitter MGTOW place. It’s an internal state that needs to become second nature. I read most everything you write, so I know you already have this stuff down.

Go to the circus; chuckle at the clowns.

sjfrellc
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The top five books that changed my life in the last forty years. 1. Atlas Shrugged 2. The Way of Men 3. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance 4. The Brothers Karamazov 5. Anna Karenina 1,3, 4, and 5, I read 30 years ago. honorable mention to “The Sun Also Rises”. Sun Wukong, be patient with Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence, bide your way through the first 1/3 of the book it gets better and develops a full head of steam 2/3rds of the way through. A fully unconventional fictionalized book of non-fiction that you will never… Read more »

sjfrellc
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Sun, In the above video, substitute what men would want from each other at the 2:00 mark “if surrounded by zombies” with surrounded by the “Modern First World Zeitgeist”. Men would want, need and demand a team of men with strength, courage, mastery and honor rather than a team of men who were weak, cowardly, incompetent and careless. Glenn, I firmly believe your snapping out of your funk lies in teaming up with men with these qualities rather than seeking redemption in conquests with women. You have skills, you have interests and you have experiences that others have not had… Read more »

sjfrellc
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One major significant failing of Ayn Rand was that she was a cold hearted hypergamous Russian bitch with no aspirations toward spirituality. Atheism is a block to spirituality. Spirituality can be a simple as going deer hunting and seeing how crepuscular and nocturnal animals operated in a dog-eat-dog world. Cruel mother nature at work. There are only about a billion different “religions” even if they are only have pseudo-integrity. Spirituality is having a higher cause than mundane life. No different that red-pill aware men with game have a “pursuit”. You have to have a pursuit and a passion. This bridging… Read more »

gregg
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@rollo “To the average frustrated husband or sexless mature man I have no doubt these women were like a tall glass of water in the desert. By my own standards they were average, but what I noticed was each woman’s profile offered some variation of “you’ve worked hard, isn’t it time you enjoyed the appreciation you deserve?” Men do not want “respect” they want their ideals. I do not know which eskorts you looked at but in Europe, VIP – escorts are young – 18-26 babes with hot bodies. I have not seen your wife but I can tell you… Read more »

gregg
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just one thing more – it is very sad to see good hearted, succesfull men in a good shape in their late thirties, slaving away the remaining years of their lives in a false hope of “earning” respect from their unfuckable wives. They want only to be accepted like human beings from their women. What is irony – those men BEAT their wives not only in the looks department, they are nice men with good personality, good businessmen, great people. Their wives are the exact opposite. Yet those men are still trying to “earn” respect from their wives? Or, we… Read more »

ChocDoc
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@ Gregg: I fully agree to your last Post. What we men have to do first is to earn OUR respect for ourselves!!! As hypergamy is uncloaked, its easily to follow that the terms “hypergamy” and “respect” are mutually exclusive to each other. In my opinion “respect” and “honor” are deeply manly words. Women can’t understand these words fully nor they are willing to understand them, because it would interfere their hypergamic strategy! Gregg has written it quiet good. Nothing to add more to this. There is only one person that i want respect and admire from…that’s me personally. I… Read more »

ChocDoc
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The attempt of this dragon lady do remind me somehow of the trojan horse…lol

Anyway…

ChocDoc
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Besides the enlightening words of Rollo, i also wanna thank the “older” men in here. Iam 36.
It’s a tremendous help for me to learn from your experiences.
Generations of men have been cut from that kind of knowledge exchange.

Keep it going, gentlemen!!

Excalibur
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“Dragonfly is writing about this because of the single biggest problem in marriages today — most women are married to men who just don’t trip their triggers. Most women are married to men who they are not attracted to; or who are less attractive than the men those women used to have sex with before they got married.” The marriage contract automatically beta-izes the husband even if he was alpha to begin with. Women know, if not consciously, then unconsciously, they have the power in the relationship, which reduces her respect and attraction to her man. The law is on… Read more »

Excalibur
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Men face legal, financial and emotional annihilation, and even death (suicide) from marriage and divorce. And women destroy themselves too. Most women are cognizant of the fact that they will be much less marketable (due to age, having children, decrease in looks/sex appeal) to other men after divorce, so it is quite easy for these women to become quite vindictive and hostile during a divorce, and the anti-male court system, lawyers, will gleefully help her extract her revenge and pound of flesh from her husband – she will feel entitled to everything and anything that she can get from him… Read more »

maggieblack
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The man I am presently ( and hopefully will always) fascinated with everything he says and does, simply had me at hello. His frame is so dominate, so masculine and sure that I simply cannot get enough of him. He treats me with respect, love and lust so that I am getting everything I want from our relationship. He is his own man. He does what he wants when he wants. He just happens to be the kind of man who does things that are perfectly ok with me and I respect everything about him. He comes from a place… Read more »

Anonnymousse
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Your blog is the most pathetic pseudo-intellectual drivel I’ve ever read online. That’s after 15 years of reading the worst the internet septic tank has to offer, including things by proud Nazis, Bronies, and animal molesters. Dogfuckers actually write better articles and support themselves better than you do, I think. Calling yourself “The Rational Male” is an insult to men, rationality, .com websites, the word “the,” the concept of having a blog, language and ideas in general, the internet, human beings in general, etc. In a way, I feel fulfilled that I’ve read the source of an incredibly large amount… Read more »

Double Windsor
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@ Anypuss

Pure subjective smear.

Apearantly your incapable of making an argument or one single cogent point based in fact.

Not even an attempt to debate on merit.

Evasion is the root of evil.

Your should resort back to your dog-fuckers and nazis for inspiration.

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bonbon2
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My first reaction after this article was that “wow this is such a long post!” I could feel that you went very specific about how you felt on admiration and respects and how much you need these from women around you. I’m not here to tell you that your needs are wrong or demanding, but I would like to offer another way to look at these needs. I understand that men need to feel these and make them feel valued about themselves, that’s pretty normal, actually. In fact I think all human beings are just like this, regardless of gender… Read more »

Kat
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Hey, guys…I’ve been sitting here reading this specific blog post plus the comments for the past hour (as part of an ebook I am writing), and I would like to add my perspective. But before I begin, I’ll start off by saying that I’m a female. Yes. You read that correctly. Not apologizing for it. Just stating that fact. Also, in case you’re curious, the ebook I am writing is actually on behalf of someone else, via a freelance writing site. The title of the ebook is about women who test men. Now, I can’t pretend to know what you’re… Read more »

Mylia Noir
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This reminds me of those times when certain guys would tell me how other women (usually HB6s or under) told them they were “hot” or “good-looking”. I would always laugh it off and say “Yeah, I guess that means she likes you”, but not comment on their looks positively myself at all. This reaction did not sit well with those guys, haha! Actually, over time they would become more and more “needy” and insecure about their looks (one even admitted he had been very unhappy about it when he was younger…) Why? Because they were obviously seeking *my* validation; they… Read more »

Kim
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Men, gain some muscle mass and the women will LOVE and respect you!! Confidence just happens when you get in to bodybuilding, it just sneaks up on you, testosterone is increased and you will give off serious manly vibes that the ladies love….just do it!

Thataboy
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Wow, if you read advice for women of how to deal with men you get the same thing. It seems that both sides play the pulling away game to get the other more interested. We says it goes back to wanting something you can’t have. But we aren’t talking about food here we are talking about another human being. The fear of caring for someone more than they care for you plays an important role in this game. The phenomena of losing respect and desire for those that want you some much is an unfortunate part of how most people… Read more »

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