Admiration & Respect

admiration

One thing I really enjoy about doing the few interviews I’ve done is that they allow me to do a stream of consciousness dialog with another person. I like this because it’s very close to the internal dialoging I do when I’m writing notes or researching a topic. While I was talking with Christian McQueen last week the topic of respect came up and I riffed on this for a bit.

“Be with a woman that admires you… admiration creates a different kind of respect”

I’ve delved into the dynamic of respect in the past, but what I was getting at with this was the ways in which women and men differ in their views of respect. Towards the close of last weeks post I made mention of Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post on the womanly art of seduction. What I found interesting in her list of seductive qualities was that these aren’t really means of seduction, but rather mindsets women should adopt to maintain a healthy relationship.

As I mentioned in that post, women’s methods of seduction are a lost art, but those means lack real significance if there is no genuine desire for that man. Women can very easily seduce men today. So starved for intimate attention are the majority of men that they create the seductive narrative for themselves; all a woman need do is make it easy for him to believe.

On a woman’s part, seduction doesn’t require much. There was a time I did some investigation into the profiles of professional online escorts. I had followed some links Advocatus Diaboli had offered in a few of his posts about his dealing with escorts, and while there were the prerequisite “pros’ with pornstar bodies and manners to match, the majority of these women were semi-attractive “amateurs” you’d be surprised by if you saw them in casual clothes. These women tended to be in their 30s-40s but what was telling was how each gal sold herself to potential clients.

To the average frustrated husband or sexless mature man I have no doubt these women were like a tall glass of water in the desert. By my own standards they were average, but what I noticed was each woman’s profile offered some variation of “you’ve worked hard, isn’t it time you enjoyed the appreciation you deserve?”, “let me treat you the way you should be appreciated” or “you’ve earned a good time with a woman who knows how to please her man.”

For part-time semi-pro escorts I was impressed by how well they knew their demographic. My guess is more than a few were divorced, but found their ‘niche’ so to speak once they were set up with spousal support. Each of them sold themselves based on at least the feigned mindset which Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo proposed women (wives) adopt to seduce their men (husbands).

In that list the first of the two articles stood out the most:

Admiration

Virtually all men crave a woman who admires him.  A woman who will listen to him when he’s talking about something he finds interesting, or when he’s giving his opinion.  They want a woman who will be interested and fascinated with what he says – yes, I said fascinated.  It turns them on to be in the presence of a hot woman (his wife) who is also giving him her entire attention and the right kind of feedback that says, “You are such an interesting man!  Omg I want you!  Now!!!”

When was the last time you reacted to your husband like that?  I know… us wives are ridiculously tired, over-achieving, too much to do, have kids hanging off our legs at any moment when we’re at home (or out… at the store trying to deal with a meltdown).  I understand, I’m a wife and mother of two now.  But guess what?  Your husband craves this kind of thing, and if this need is met by you, he will move mountains to ensure your happiness.

Of these two, admiration is the most important. Feigned admiration is the stripper’s secret (as well as the semi-pro escort’s). To the man unused to genuine admiration (that is to say 80%+ of them) this becomes his worst thumbscrew and source of manipulation. Sexual ‘thirst’ is certainly a factor, but men inherently realize the sexual attraction value that a woman’s admiration represents for themselves.

Part of men’s conditioning is recognizing the effect that simple social proof to overt fame has on women. Smart men figure out how to leverage this to their advantage as a part of Game, but most are so starved of that admiration that even marginal displays from women are enough to convince him her intents are genuine.

Truth or Compliments

Private Man had an interesting post regarding his tweet on compliments from women:

My response was thus:

“Compliments = IOIs (Indicators Of her Interest in the man). 80%+ of men are Betas, thus compliments are a rare. Can’t have Betas get the wrong ideas.”

Compliments are considered an expression of admiration for men, but largely supplication for women. In the past I’ve gone into detail about how compliments for women need to be sparse because, for the greater part of women, compliments have very little value to them. In an age of social media and ‘quick-hit ego boosts’ from her girlfriends and symps, compliments are common.

What’s scarce is valuable, so the rare compliment from a high-value Alpha is a solid reinforcer for a woman – from a Beta compliments are a liability; they are an overt expression of interest from a man she has very little interest in beyond his utility to her.

For that same reason, women giving compliments to men they have no genuine admiration for also becomes a liability – even if that liability is just implied to herself. Ergo, women rarely express admiration for a man they genuinely have no true admiration of – it’s too risky. This is why women must be taught (as in Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post) to be conscious of, and attentive to, delivering compliments to men they’ve committed to, but regard as Beta. Left to their natural impulses women simply avoid complimenting men they have no desire to be held accountable to.

Private Man asks:

What’s wrong with reinforcing a man’s confidence through a compliment? Women adore confident men. The compliment is the opposite of the shit test where a woman tests the mans adversity by artificially creating that adversity by herself.

Not to run him up the flagpole (I have a deep respect for PM), but Private Man answers his own question inadvertently. Women do adore confident men, but by definition a confident man wouldn’t need any reinforcement of that confidence. Once again, women want a man who ‘Just Gets It‘. Any (Alpha) man a woman has a genuine admiration of doesn’t need a confidence boost from her – in fact that boost, and the implied need of it, only raises Hypergamous doubt for her.

Just as with the differing concepts of love and communication, men tend to presume that their concept of admiration is the universal one. The aspects and considerations men base their admiration of other men on are not the same that women use for men. I outlined this a bit in Hysteria, but there is a uniquely female precondition of unqualified social proof women entertain for themselves as a component to their arousal that men (at least heterosexual ones) don’t have for other men.

In other words men who women are unfamiliar with are an unverified commodity to women with regard to arousal / attraction. As you can see in the videos I linked in Hysteria, this unfamiliarity with a man’s real social value (and associated SMV) are easily mimicked when they control the environment and situation. It’s this unfamiliarity and a want to believe in the possibility that a man may possess fame or even simple third-party social esteem that leads to an easy admiration for a man women have just met or are only casually familiar with.

Imaginings

Women’s imagination is one of the best tools in a man’s Game toolbox, but this is so because Hypergamous doubt is also Hypergamous prospect. The same Hypergamy that predisposes a woman to opportunistic sexual strategy also drives her imaginings about its potential fulfillment by unfamiliar men. It’s far easier for a woman to imagine she should admire a man she doesn’t know than for her to appreciate a man she’s already intimately familiar with anything close to that same admiration.

This is what men idealistically want to believe about admiration coming from their wives and long-time girlfriends – that it’s just as sincere as the expressions of admiration, the compliments and inspiration, she’s naturally disposed to give to men she’s unfamiliar with, even when that man was himself when they first met. Compliments and admiration are less believable, not to mention far less forthcoming, when a woman is aware of the person you “really” are in an LTR because hypergamous prospect turns to hypergamous doubt.

As I mention in Frame, the dominant frame you establish and enter into a relationship with sets the tone for that relationship. Sincere admiration and genuine desire are key components to setting that frame before you enter into an LTR or marriage.  You will never experience a more sincere admiration from a woman than while you are single and uncommitted. Her imagination fills in the blanks for her perception of you because you represent the potential of fulfilling her sexual strategy (either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks). Once you are committed and a woman has had those blanks filled in by her familiarity with you, admiration and compliments (if any) become something women need to be taught and reminded are something they ought to maintain to keep men interested in them by necessity.

If there is no admiration expressed from a woman while you’re single, or you’ve got to fish for compliments, or you’ve got to plead your case to her that you are someone she should admire, never enter into any kind of commitment with her.

Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s next article of seduction was respect:

Respect

How many men crave respect?  All of them.  They want to be known as the leader of their house, they want their wives to defer to them for decisions – but they want their wives to genuinely do it out of the feeling of respect, not just half-heartedly ask their husbands what they think, but to let them know that they are expressly interested in their husband’s response because of who he is.

They want a woman who looks up to them – who doesn’t try to outshine them or put them down – but who greatly esteems them and their opinions on matters (this ties in directly with Admiration).  They don’t want a wife who will constantly argue and bicker with them over decisions and details, or one who challenges them and their headship constantly.

Respect amongst men and respect amongst women are, again, two differing concepts. GWADT describes her impression of what she perceives men would want in terms of respect from their spouses, but this outline ignores the basic principles of the Desire Dynamic – respect is valueless if it’s an obligation, you cannot negotiate a genuine respect. Men understand this because respect between men is something that is earned, whereas constant social conditioning makes respect for women something to be expected.

Respect for a woman is a given and as such, like compliments, it becomes so cheap a commodity to women they have no concept that it means something entirely different amongst men. In fact, Blue Pill conditioned men are so socially insaturated in a default “respect” for women that it’s become an article of Beta Game among them. Properly trained White Knights make a competition of “out-respecting” one another with their declarations of respecting women. They believe it sets them apart from “other guys” who don’t respect women and thus make them uniquely in touch and identifying with what they’ve been taught women want.

The next time you see some self-evincing meme declaring “a real gentleman does X for a woman” posted on Facebook by one of your Blue Pill friends you’ll understand how valueless the term respect really is to women. I hit on this in my post Respect:

Masculine Respect

So this is my point, women don’t respect men, or rather, they don’t respect the masculine – and most certainly don’t have a default respect for it. They’re taught to be adversarial, not cooperative. Women are taught to relinquish respect, and then only begrudgingly when a man has proven his quality beyond the reach of most men. Masculinity is popularly ridiculed in western culture as it is, but to respect a man is to compete with him, to out-masculine him. Cooperation or even recognizing that the genders could be complimentary is viewed at best as antiquated, at worst, sublimation to the male imperative.

Women have very little incentive for learning to defer to a man with a default respect when respect for women is already a social entitlement – that is the frame of reference women have with respect. Even average fathers seldom experience an organic respect from their daughters unless they are taught (usually by example) to appreciate the qualities that make him respectable. Women in the workplace presume they’re being treated with a default professional respect, but any respect that’s afforded them generally begins with that default ‘Respect for Women’® dynamic that 80%+ of men already believe is their due.

When men express respect for other men it’s usually because they’ve in some way earned it or earned a respectable office. That’s not always the reality, but it is the general presumption that respectable men are “leaders of their house” (business, position, team or rank) and makers of the decisions others follow because they have earned it. Think about the men you genuinely respect. Why do you respect them? What have they done to merit your deference of respect to them?

The way a man considers these aspects differs from how a woman considers these aspects. Respectable Men are keenly aware of a respect offered to them due to obligation as opposed to a genuine, considerate and introspective respect. So when a woman who presumes she holds a default authority humbles herself, and magnanimously allows a man she’s told she should respect a degree of deference, that man understands it’s her obligation and not a genuine respect he’d experience from other men.

Indeed, men do want a woman who looks up to them, admires them and respects them, but too many men don’t recognize the motivators behind women expressing them. Many Beta men make a joke out of their wives being “the real boss” or how she “puts up with him.” They have no concept, much less any expectation, of an organic, uncoerced masculine admiration, respect or even a compliment, so it’s no surprise when they can’t discern between a real expression of sincerity and one motivated by manipulation or obligation.

Lastly, ladies, the best compliment you can give a man is with your body and consideration. Unexpected gestures, being an imaginative lover, staying in shape because you want to please a man, are the best expressions of genuine desire, admiration and respect. Nothing conveys real appreciation for a man better than the unsolicited desire you reserve for Alpha Fucks. You want him to know you admire and respect him? Initiate sex with him, often and with intensity.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

302 comments on “Admiration & Respect

  1. Uh oh 😀 Liz, now he’s gonna call you ugly, say you don’t know anything… it’s actually a song and dance he craves (which is why he always tries to get into it with me). These are his only tools of verbal communication. Like an abused dog, he can’t tell when there are people who don’t want him to fight or be dominated.

    Glenn, you’re easy to manipulate into losing face because 1) you’re already angry, and 2) you want to fight. You came from abuse though, which is probably why you had to play a father role. My father is my father figure, as it should be… it would have seriously messed up my brother to have had to do what you did.

    Haha… I tried your social experiment just now though, asking my son who runs this family, and he said back, without any hesitation, “my Dad.”

    Keep blowing off steam, keep allowing yourself to be manipulated….

    1. @Dragonfly
      Admiration and respect
      These are his only tools of verbal communication. Like an abused dog, he can’t tell when there are people who don’t want him to fight or be dominated.
      (This is a huge thing for me) I ha to reprogram not having in any male influence by admitting how wrong I was and respecting the people who hating my gender with deep conviction growing up. Dogs where a great example to learn from. Your intention is what most dogs I hung around would pick up on. My sister would get scared of violent dogs and I would be attracted to them. They always knew thinking back on the burden of performance. They allowed me to play. It’s why I prefer dogs over my family. They showed me alpha and beta. They showed me play. Which with humans could equal game.

  2. Per “ugly”
    It’s okay. I am a dog after all. 😉
    (for some reason that one never gets old to me with this new avatar…)

    I try not to get personal (I don’t know anyone’s story, and everyone is coming from a different place), and I don’t read all of the comments. Often I don’t read the comments at all.
    That particular one I had to go back to to understand what was going on when the discussion turned south.

  3. Not in defense of Glenn.

    If I were the husband of Dragonfly!
    1,
    I would never ever ever allow you to get involved with the manosphere .
    2,
    I would ask you to remove all the photos of yourself from your blog.
    3,
    I would have to deal with your attention whoring disorder.
    Ps
    Do yourself a service and take down all your photos and specially the one you have (you know, when you make a little space in the middle? ).
    Ps
    I am just trying to help nothing personal.

  4. @Glenn
    “One of the places I blow off steam is on websites/comments, lol. I hope that doesn’t piss too many people off here, but I don’t talk this way in real life. I’m much nicer to people most of the time.”

    Intellectual online debate is a perfect surrogate for how men were hard-wired in an evolved pre-civilized society and now must operated in a Fem-Centric society. And a failing one at that.

    Jack Donovan has a chapter called “A Check to Civilization” in The Way of Men. He has a well thought out essay in regards to “As prosperity and security increase, and the need for men to hunt, struggle and fight decreases, the male desire to engage in gang activity can be controlled and channeled though simulation, vicariousness, and intellectualization.”

    He writes:
    “As opportunities for men to do what they evolved to do decrease, greater emphasis is placed on simulated, vicarious, and intellectualized channels of masculinity to maintain order and cultural unity. Men still get to feel like men, but the threat that men pose to order, to established interests, and to the interests of women is mitigated.”

    “Unfortunately, we’ve reached a level of civilization, technology and plenty that—to protect order and established interests—opportunities for vital, immediate equivalents to hunting and war are increasingly rare. Weapons technology has made war too deadly and too easy for men willing to use that technology to get what they want at all costs. Lawyers and insurance companies—and more technology—have made dangerous, exciting and engaging jobs safe, easy and boring. Only a select few guardians, workers in shrinking and outsourced fields and men who favor intellectual channels of masculinity are satisfactorily engaged in activities where they feel like they are risking, struggling, and winning. Everyone else is just playing around, and they know it. Men are dropping out and disengaging from our slick, easy, safe world. For what may be the first time in history, the average guy can afford to be careless. Nothing he does really matters, and—what’s worse—there is a shrinking hope of any future where what he does will matter. [Ed. It’s a welcome thought that Rollo Tomassi is mattering to the Manosphere].”

    So men engage in intellectual debate online as a surrogate for impulses we are hard-wired for.

    But as you rightly perceive, there is a problem with this: he asserts:

    “Another problem with the complete intellectualization of masculinity is that intellectualized masculinity is pretty much equally accessible to women. Demonstrating your manliness to other men doesn’t mean much if women are doing all of the same things that men are doing. “Intellectual courage” isn’t particularly specific to men or the role of men. Women can be equally “intellectually courageous.” Women can screw each other over in business just as well as men can—maybe even better. Women can demonstrate self-mastery, they can be good citizens. Women can be morally upright and while as a group they lag in the sciences, there are women who can compete with men in every academic field. Intellectualized masculinity is only workable when masculinity is intellectualized differently than femininity and men are not forced to compete with women. If men are subconsciously trying to demonstrate their worthiness as men to other men, and then find themselves competing with women, it kind of blows the whole illusion.”

    “The introduction of women into a field of competition short-circuits its viability as a substitute for male gang activity.
    Competition doesn’t satisfy the same primal need in most men when women are involved—no matter how the women behave, or how rational the reason for including them may seem. As a general rule, if you introduce women into the mix, men either shift their focus from impressing each other to impressing the women, or they lose interest altogether and do just enough to get by.
    Feminist demands for absolute equality and the integration of the sexes into war and its equivalents—combined with the looming threat of technological mass destruction and the desire of globalist elites to protect their investments against ornery gangs of men—have pushed the intellectualization of masculinity into a terminal phase: repudiation. Accepting the nature of men as it is and offering them equivalents to war is no longer acceptable to women or globalists. Their shared agenda has become the complete repudiation of the idea that men should want to do the things they’ve been selected to do.”

    “For most men, this repudiation of the role of men and our species’ basic survival strategy will feel—rightly—like self hatred and oppression. The Way of Men is to gang up and fight each other, or fight nature. Teaching men to despise that is teaching them to despise their history, to hate their own talents and to reject their natural place in the world.
    The repudiation of violent masculinity is the murder of male identity.”

    “The emotional needs of men are not being met by a world that repudiates The Way of Men, but so long as their material needs are being met, men may choose not to make war against the world. As long as they have enough stuff, enough food, enough distractions—men may be content to dull their senses, tune out, and allow themselves to become slaves to the interests of women, bureaucrats and wealthy men.”

    Note: his chapter is much richer and greatly more developed than the quotes I chose to illustrate your point that women interjecting themselves into the debate changes the flow of the debate. (For better or for worse).

  5. Mr T
    April 11th, 2015 at 1:27 pm

    The response I get is she wants to jump my bones. When she is real hot for me she puts out “I want to have your children” vibes. And admits it. She had four. We were discussing it last night. She is very happy with the results.

    We were also discussing her dislike of Betas. Men that don’t give her tingles don’t interest her. She can’t even fake it.

  6. @Liz

    Rollo has made it clear that women are permitted to comment here.

    Just because one can do something doesn’t necessarily mean they should. Women commenting here often demonstrate that.

  7. “Just because one can do something doesn’t necessarily mean they should. Women commenting here often demonstrate that.”

    “I try not to get personal (I don’t know anyone’s story, and everyone is coming from a different place), and I don’t read all of the comments. Often I don’t read the comments at all.
    That particular one I had to go back to to understand what was going on when the discussion turned south.”

    Facepalm. Very solipsistic.

    No evidence is presented as to “the discussion turned south”. I saw no turn south. In my estimation, Glenn and Dragonfly presented coherent, equally believable presumptions and statements.

    It is a frequent positive mindset for 28 year old women to be idealistic. There is nothing wrong with that. Idealism is a positive virtue–and I hold it as a personal positive attribute at 53 years old. But, congratulations to those 28 year old idealists with a two children and with a healthy attitude toward your spouse. Congratulations on getting through the easiest part of life.

    I respect Dragonfly’s idealistic Admiration and Respect for her husband–especially the genuine Christian mindset.

    I also have a tremendous amount of empathy for Glenn’s misfortune in marriage and fatherhood. (And I am the least empathetic person I know.) I see it more as societal and social failings in the Fem-centric mind-set than his own masculine failings. (Sorry, Liz, I actually read and follow the comments section)

    For the record: I haven’t experienced significant real relationship trauma in life–besides my own minor failings and minor personality weaknesses–so that colors my idealism.

  8. @Glenn- I think you may have misunderstood me as well. When I say “hive mind”I do not mean women are Borglike creatures, but being descriptive to get my point across.. although for us men who are geared towards individualism, the impression is one of hive mind, or followers if you prefer. Nothing dehumanizing about it was intended.. so either I didn;t choose my words right, or you’re taking it all too literally.
    As to the study on female sexual fluidity- I am well aware of that research and what I am saying in no way contradicts it, but helps to explain it. Women are more malleable, to choose a better word that won’t set off your alarms. And that malleability, I am theorizing, is genetic in nature/ Being more malleable/submissive/social would, by necessity, make them much more prone to social pressures.
    I find kind of funny that that idea is more dehumanizing and the common explanations of female behavior in the manosphere, which seems to constantly center around women being almost completely limbically driven. So much so that men in the manosphere are constantly being told “they can’t help it” “you can’t get mad at them” etc. I mean, at least I allow women some agency and responsibility, lol.
    Ultimately my contention is that womens behaviors and drives can not be fully understood unless we stop projecting our natures onto them. Their experience of reality is different and just as in sex, where men are almost slaves to their higher levels of testosterone and sexual hormones as well as evolutionary forces, evolution has exerted great pressure on women to be almost slaves to social pressure.

  9. “No evidence is presented as to “the discussion turned south””

    Well, if that’s what you believe you are entitled to your opinion (and no doubt, this being an unmoderated forum I’ll get to hear it again and again unless and until I “solipsistically” choose to spend my time more constructively) then your idea of “intellectual online debate” is obviously much different from mine.

  10. Mr T. – My husband has thought of pulling the plug on the manosphere involvement – especially since Rollo’s linked to my blog I’ve had a little more (weird stuff) to deal with. I’ve definitely thought of separating from it now… totally rejecting it.

  11. @Rollo
    thank you for your blog and books , they were a vindication for what I always believed and it was reading your blog and book that removed any cloud from my sight .
    I am done here and thank you again .
    as they say if you sit too long under the master`s feet they will stink.
    so master thank you again for your mind.
    ps
    Dragonfly
    it wasnt Rollo`s link to your blog , it was you and I think it is not a good idea for a young woman with two boys and a husband to be in a man`s space .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsM_VmN6ytk

  12. Liz,

    My idea of intellectual online debate in regards to the The Rational Male blog is to carry the ball forward (not cry foul, penalty) in males discussing behavioral and evolutionary psychology to advance the Male Imperative.
    I’m not about going to sit around and let my 23 year old daughter behave like young chicks behave these days, nor let my son @20 be a neutered pussy Blue Pill wanna be.

    If you could expand on what The Rational Male stands for ideologically for the cause of men , I for one would appreciate your input. Otherwise your thoughts above are capricious. And designed to advance the FI.

    Dragonfly has advanced the ball here with a genuine expression of admiration and respect for the male experience. A rare happening. You madam show nothing but disrespect for the male experience.

    Liz, I want to ask you a question. Do you have any empathy for Glenn? (Assuming you have read any of his past comments, maybe not). If you say yes I don’t believe you for a minute. You don’t. Can’t do it. Won’t do it.

    I think Dragonfly does. For a minute. She gets men. They have needs too.

  13. Outside of this blog. I’m sure she shines. I’m sure she posts good Feminine Imperative stuff, When it is about self affirming women’s stuff. When it comes to affirming men in regards to Admiration and Respect, in this thread at least, she falls short.

    Her words here don’t advance her cause. Yours Do. You are genuine Dragonfly.

    Rollo recognizes your genuineness. I do too Dfly. Liz doesn’t measure up in her unmeasured responses.

    Patently obvious.

    Don’t stand up for Liz if she can’t advance the line that Rollo espouses. Red Pill. Masculine centric. I’m so tired of the Fem-Centric idea of equalist feminism advancing the cause for women. Pretty obvious that they suffer for it.

    Admiration an Respect for men as advocated by MS.Dragonfly. Employ it.
    Women. Please

  14. “Both of them were professionally handled by trainers, but even though they seemed the most docile of animals I knew they had the potential to seriously fuck me up under the wrong set of circumstances. ”

    “The flaw is in believing that trust, and kinship is unconditional; that the underlying feral motivators are subdued to the point of being inconsequential. It may be that you do have a special bond that goes beyond just the physical, but that relationship is still founded on physical rules that constantly test and influence that individual.”

    It’s true. Sun Wukong is right.

    1. Admiration and respect
      Admiration and respect
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJKd0rkKss
      http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00N4G0P8E/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?qid=1428808281&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=Richard+Proenneke&dpPl=1&dpID=51q0W0NUOKL&ref=plSrch
      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke
      “Needs? I guess that is what bothers so many folks. They keep expanding their needs until they are dependent on too many things and too many other people… I wonder how many things in the average American home could be eliminated if the question were asked, “Must I really have this?” I guess most of the extras are chalked up to comfort or saving time.

      Funny thing about comfort – one man’s comfort is another man’s misery. Most people do’t work hard enough physically anymore, and comfort is not easy to find. It is surprising how comfortable a hard bunk can be after you come down off a mountain.”
      ― Richard Proenneke, One Man’s Wilderness: An Alaskan Odyssey

      “I enjoy working for my heat. I don’t just press a button or twist a thermostat dial. I use the big crosscut saw and the axe, and while I’m getting my heat supply I’m working up an appetite that makes simple food just as appealing as anything a French chef could create.”
      ― Richard Proenneke, One Man’s Wilderness: An Alaskan Odyssey

  15. DeNihilist
    April 11th, 2015 at 3:18 pm

    Both you and T are missing it. I have been RP training her. She knows her nature and is willing to use it to her advantage. I’m usually 10 to 20 years ahead of trends so consider this a harbinger.

    Women are attracted to a man that attracts other women. RP truth. And you are correct that the usual female response is “if he doesn’t want just me I’m dumping him.” My relationship with the fm is proof that at least some women can to some extent accept their RP nature.

    I have pointed out two things to the fm. If she accepts her nature she will lose power. She will also be happier. Both have been the case. I have told her the route to regain some of her power. “Want me more than any other woman does.” I point out to her that such desire was how she got me in the first place (when I was playing the field more). She now endeavors to make that level of desire permanent. Such desire is a counter to hypergamy. The corresponding attitude change for the males is to Alpha up – permanently. I got the beginning of RP training from my first GF back in ’62. I consider myself very lucky.

  16. “Don’t stand up for Liz if she can’t advance the line that Rollo espouses.”

    I confess, I didn’t know I was supposed to “advance a line”.
    But then, I didn’t know it was solipsistic to pick and choose what I decide to read in my spare time either. Is this some sort of cult?
    Nevermind. Once again, I’ll stick to just reading the articles and skip the comments section.

  17. @sifrellc – “Congratulations on getting through the easiest part of life” – While you have many good lines, this was perhaps the best ever.

    @Hobbes – Plastic = Malleable. Hive mind really connotes that the lower order participants have little individual agency, hence my drawing the distinction. I do think we agree though.

    Ladies, just note that I never said you shouldn’t be permitted to comment here, rather I made the same plea I’ve made many times. Why can’t women realize that men actually want and need male spaces? Why can’t you just let a male dialog proceed without your fucking input? In just one place on earth?

    I’m not saying that should be the case in most places. I’m merely letting you know that for me, this place is a respite from the relentless hectoring of the FI and women’s typically superficial take on matters. I request you allow this to be a male space. You don’t have to do so, you are free to scamper around and leave smiley faces and make yourselves seem so “good” and “nice” and present your NAWALT Case Studies – I don’t give a fuck about any of it. I want to speak to and listen to men here. And this is a place where the absurd radical egalitarianism (Rollo calls it “equalism” for some reason) women have wrapped themselves in is laughed at. We are not equal. And in the real world, there are many more smart men than there are smart women – and more than a couple of those really smart men come here to speak, that’s why I come here. To listen to and speak with them. Not some woman who thinks the Red Pill is a self-help course for Christian mothers.

    I’m also tired of walking on eggshells with women. This was one of my epiphanies post Red Pill, how the women in my life had me walking on eggshells with them – but they didn’t seem to do so with me. I was always having to deal with their pecadillos, their period, their schedule, their sensibilities and sensitivities. It’s always work with women.

    After all, we are built to perform for women, and this blog can be seen as an instruction manual for men on how to shoulder “the burden of performance” happily and well. It would be an act of mercy for women to remain silent spectators here – and respect. But we won’t have any of that, will we? Women being spectators and showing men respect, nope, that is simply inconceivable. Instead, you have to inject youselves into the very movement that seeks to break the chains that women have bound men in.

    I’m not talking to feminists, I’m talking to all women. Feminism is merely an expression of the inexorable demand for service from men that all women seem to feel entitled. The other thing you ladies seem to miss is that Rollo has made clear countless times that he looks at female visits here as demonstrations of his principles, so while he’s open to all comers – thankfully as he might have already banned me otherwise – he’s also made clear his view. So keep being examples. Just as I’ll keep doing my thing.

  18. @sifrellc – Wow, that Jack Donovan stuff is mindblowing, I’ve somehow missed him until now. I just bought the book and will read it. He makes much clearer what I was inaptly trying to get at. There is something essential about physical violence wrt masculinity, and the lack of it is probably a huge adjustment for men.

    Just think about how safe we are compared to 100 or 200 years ago? Hell, up until the late 19th century, famines used to take out chunks of human civilization in the West – and violence/war was sometimes about fighting over food. Think about the risk of being attacked by an animal. Or think about crime – there were no phones, so summoning help was much harder. Protecting oneself before the advent of the phone was a way of life. Being “tough” and “standing up for yourself” were things that were drummed into all boys and men.

    I guess what I’m saying is that women react to this. One of the reasons I’m interested in this is that I always punched above my weight with women and never really understood why. Sure, I’m good looking, but at my best, at 5’8″ I was an 8 at my best moments. Yes I had a lot of other things going for me, but still, I could never really get why I’d end up with very hot women, oftentimes the hottest women in various social circles I was in.

    It rarely happened off the bat, I would grow on these women over time. I remember overhearing two women who were interested in me in this office I worked in talking about me. One said, “I don’t know what it is, there is just something so earthy and sexy about him. It’s like you just know he’s good in bed.” And the other agreed.

    This is not about me being charming, it’s more visceral than that – and also know that it’s almost completely fizzled in me by now, at age 52. But it was there, and I think it was very much related to my base level confidence that I’m ready to throw down with anyone if I have to. Hard to say, of course, but this feels like an answer to that to me. Just sayin’…

  19. Liz,

    “Law 38

    Think as you like but Behave like others

    If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality [Ed., or your un-originality…] only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.”

    Got it Sun Wukong, thanks.

    “Then there are those who accept the game for what it is, they understand it and they master it (or at least attempt to do so). They understand the need for adversity and the benefits it gives them when they reach the next level of mastering the game – not only in technique, but from the confidence this genuinely and verifiably confers.

    Don’t wish things were easier, wish you were better.

    It’s the aberration who seeks to legitimize her cheating at the game as the new way the game should be played. Shoot the arrow, paint the target around it, and you’ll always get a bullseye.”

    And:

    “”The wolf makes the deer swifter, evasive and alert. The deer makes the wolf stronger, enduring and cunning.” R. Tomassi

    “Most people can understand how the wolf is dependent on the deer. Only a handful ever seem to grasp how the deer is dependent on the wolf.” KFG”

    1. Mr T I hope you aren’t gone and keep saying what you have to say. That other post was from the first book the stick with me from all the comments you said it was from rollos first book. As for te last post Shaun Ellis red pill down to the core comes to mind
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j4vFBXOoHs0

  20. sjrfrellc: you should probably be hall monitor for your own blog, and I’d appreciate it if you would not decide (for me and others) what “lines” are acceptable, by which commenters, in an unmoderated blog. Liz is the most RP woman I’ve encountered online in the past couple of years. Based on what you and she write, she’s certainly more RP than you.

    Try editing or censoring yourself before trying to edit, censor, or mysteriously summarize the motivations of people.

  21. Not a typo: in a market research study focused on married Christian women, two (2) percent identify improving the marital relationship as a wife and partner as their primary charge. Essentially, the men in their lives simply don’t exist.

    These are supposedly conservative Christian women, though the data show they are ignorant or disinterested in Biblical instruction and follow a kind of self-celebrating ‘mommie and Jesus have a relationship’ pop religion.

    Rank order of surveyed women’s “Goals in Life”:

    36% — be a parent/mother.
    25% — achieve faith-oriented goals
    6 % — health
    5% — career
    4% — lifestyle
    4% — “personal growth”
    4% — morality
    3% — financial
    2% — enhanced marital relationship

    Fewer than 2%: travel, personal appearance, relationships outside the home.

    The women next turn around and 59% say they are very happy with their marital relationships. I don’t know how that’s possible, unless they have a view of marriage in which the man/husband is a kind of obedient poodle with adequate cash flow.

    62% of these women self-identify first as parent/mother; only 11% self-identify first as wife. For a man, this isn’t marriage, this is drafthorse hell.

    Barna is a reliable, established market research firm, the metier for which is research into the Christian community.

    I think these contradictions and rationalizations by Christian women explain the pearl-clutching by some of the female commenters in Dragonfly’s Seduction post. (One woman in particular led with the idea that Seduction — admiration and respect — is a priori sinful language and a sinful practice.) It’s a Churchian-Feminist Potemkin Village all the way down.

    https://www.barna.org/culture-articles/585-christian-women-today-part-2-of-4-a-look-at-womens-lifestyles-priorities-and-time-commitments

  22. Heheh, I for one welcome feminine comments. And Liz may be more RP than I. I responded to what she said and implied. Not who she is. No offense intended.

    I’m not trying to moderate. I’m just offering an opinion. She doesn’t have to take her ball and go home.

    I entirely respect Dragonfly’s words and exhortations. I have little respect for Liz’s disparagement of Glenn above or her claim that the back and forth between Glenn and Dragonfly was taking the discussion south. Both had well thought out and said points.

    Glenn,
    Donovan’s book is an exposition on Rollo’s excellent essay:

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/21/positive-masculinity-vs-equalism/

  23. As usual the point of Glenn’s request goes right over women’s heads.
    What Glenn says about men wanting men only spaces is absolutely true. Alas our “red pill” (lol) women will have none of it.

    In addition ladies, if you’re gonna stick yer fingers in your ears and say “Blah blah blah Daddy Rollo lets us comment here” you simply reinforce the reasons Rollo DOES let women post here….to serve as examples of AWALT.

    Perfectly demonstrated, ladies.

    PS- Buena Vista, go white knight somewhere else.

  24. Hey BV-thanks for the wine suggestion. It took a while for it to arrive, but when it finally did, I really enjoyed it!

  25. For what it’s worth: What’s to stop female commenters from using male names? And how do we know those who say they are men really are men? Granted a person would have to be seriously fucked up in the head, among other things, to pretend to be a man commenting on blogs….. It speaks volumes to the effect men let women have on them.

    As for the original post, not sure that creating desire/respect/admiration is the best place to be in a relationship, but considering, I guess, how things are in the world today, these are great reminders for people who need or want them.

  26. @ Dragonfly – Listen to your husband…And also get that you are probably the nicest woman in the world to ever piss me off so much. I bet if we met on another blog or in real life I’d be nice as a peach to you. It’s just that when you talk about alphaing up your son and husband, and you hector women to “act as if” sexually, well, it strikes me as so FI informed and ridiculous. I don’t want a woman to “act” like she’s attracted to me. I just don’t want her to make a deal to build a family together with me, and demand that I be faithful in exchange for sexual access when she has no intent or ability to deliver on either promise.

    I remember a quick turnaround my ex pulled on me the first time I hit the exit button in our marriage. Our sex life had devolved into foreplay being me begging and pleading, at age 28, her 30. When we met when I was 21, married 4 years, sex was always frequent and good (although i believe she was an alpha widow) and but now my wife doesn’t want to have sex with me? We went to counseling where it was instantly all about me making it about sex instead of intimacy. My desires were shamed but as I looked harder at my marriage I realized that my wife did not act like she loved me at all anymore. She didn’t smile when I came home, and generally had been treating me like she loathed me increasingly for about a year.

    I put my foot down. Made her look me in the eye and tell me she loved me – she couldn’t. I said, okay then, well lets end it. Because I don’t want to be married to someone who hates me. She was shocked by this – odd right? I mean, it never occurred to her that I would not agree to be the plough-horse in her little fantasy life if she treated me like shit. It literally never occurred to her that I would leave. Why do I tell you all this? Because of what happened next.

    She freaked out for 3 days and then poof – like magic, she transformed. I suddenly came home to a clean house, a cooked dinner, our baby was put to bed early instead of my ex essentially keeping her sleep hours – at 1.75 years old, she’d been sleeping through the night for a long time. But now suddenly she could sleep on her own. My ex became a seductress and a devoted wife, she even got up and made me coffee a couple of mornings – I left super early and most of the time her only involvement was telling me to be quiet so I didn’t bother her. This entire demeanor changed – and remember, she was a stay at home wife.

    She asked me to take a breath and put all this off until after Christmas as she didn’t want to ruin the first Christmas our daughter might remember. It was like Dec 2 – I was fine with it, I was in no hurry. But in the next 6 weeks she was like the wife I always wanted. And get this – she wasn’t a slave. I always helped around the house, particularly with cooking, but also laundry etc. I was not some Archie Bunker kind of guy, but I’m talking about a woman who takes pride in keeping a nice house. A woman who enjoys being a wife and a mother and how she does all of it shows this. From the napkins she picks out to the way she organizes the refrigerator – she’s always engaged. A wife who acted like she was glad to see me when I came home, too – these all emerged out of nowhere, which was how it used to be. One of the things I liked about her was that she took pride in keeping a nice house and had a very nice, feminine flair with which she did many things. This all flooded back and I loved it.

    At first i didn’t trust it. But the sex was great too, and after 6 weeks I said, ‘Listen, this is all I ever wanted. If you can keep this up and be happy, I’m not going anywhere.’ She only persisted long enough to suck me back in and then reverted to the games.

    Until the Red Pill I was always left with huge questions about this episode in my life. First, you need to know that my ex was a very “sweet” and “nice” woman. Everyone thought she was such a sweetheart, she wasn’t some evil radfem bitch. She was traditional – I told her up front that I didn’t want strangers raising our children and was prepared to do what it took to provide for our family, and she wanted a traditional life too – I did not talk her into it. And I was living up to my end of the deal, we were really starting to do well after some lean years – very typical for couples in their 20s.

    But she went south completely and utterly on me, and then when faced with the consequences, she turned it around again. I swear to you, during this period of time, after my ultimatum, she really was happier. She wasn’t faking it and the sex was even enthusiastic. Nothing could explain this to me. In my BP mind, women’s love COULD NOT operate like that. I could never figure it out. it must be that she really loved me, that this was the “real” love that we had and the other stuff was perhaps just a bad time for her. I never could make sense of it, and even after she turned it off again I still didn’t get it.

    Turns out it was just her nature…

    But then I came here and it’s clear. She responded well when I filled her with real dread. Same thing when I would go out after work and come home late a bit buzzed. We would have the wildest sex on those nights – even if she was pissed because I came home late. The breakthrough for me is that I really get now that this was all real for her. Her hypergamous desire and high SMV were driving her to be unattracted to me, and I had to spark her desire again. I did so most effectively with dread, accidentally.

    The only thing that explains the fact pattern is that it was biological. That she really didn’t have control over this. Can you get that? Hypergamy is real – but according to you it can be beaten if you just try hard enough?

    I’m much more happy to see the commentary of that post-wall former hottie from a couple of months back than your’s. She admits her hypergamous nature. As did a young hottie I was with last summer told me. “If I could ever manage to be faithful, maybe I could get married, but I don’t think so.” She’s at least honest (while she was cheating on her BF with me, uncovered, lol) and of course I don’t give her access to my checking account. You see, Nicole knows that she will want other men and will give into it in today’s culture. She’s quite hot so the opportunities are endless for her, and the entire world is telling her, why not? She’s dealing honestly with her biology and I respect her for it. I can’t count on her for shit though, but at least I know it.

    Many men seem willing to try keep the deal – hence the outrageous sales levels of Cialis and Viagra. Tell me, if women gave a shit about their fall of in sexual interest in their husbands, would they not be looking for libido boosting aids? Nah, not a woman on earth means or can actually keep her marriage promise to a man. Even you, Dragonfly, your biology will very likely make you find your husband repulsive sooner or later, trust me and it will make madly desirous of other men. I mean, it’s quite likely going to be you someday that all this “happens to”. Think of it as though you have a genetic makeup which makes it 80% likely you will develop breast cancer – no matter how hard you blog, you can’t fight biology. And your advice to women is “go through the motions anyway” – no thanks. Get this – the last thing on earth I want from a woman is obligation sex. I’d rather throw some dread into them, or game them otherwise, or move on.

    I get you are trying to do good and I suppose I should offer some appreciation for the effort, but the “what” of your trying is quite troubling to me. But hey, maybe you, Rollo and the three other couples that manage to make happy lives together and keep their families together can have a dinner together 25 years from now and sneer at the rest of us.

    But in the rest of the world, women are disposing of men like last year’s outfits and their political movement is a key part of destroying our culture and society. They are cheerleading it while they do so – they are wearing tee shirts claiming, “I bathe in male tears” and debate “Are men necessary?” You are so young, and according to your own telling, have lived a rather sheltered life. I think you believe a lot of stuff about the world and life that aren’t going to work out the way you hope.

    Perhaps you also don’t get that there isn’t another place on earth where I can speak about this? That the entire world isn’t a “safe space” for men to speak the truths I speak here? But how would you know that? You are a young, pretty, white woman living in the West in 2015 – there is nothing you can’t say or do. I could not do the blog you do, Dragonfly – I would be run out of my business by friends of Adria Richards.

    Or let’s say that you are the fucking unicorn, that through a special process of prayer and uniqueness you’ve transcended the culture and your biology and women cheering you on and the courts waiting to give you cash and prizes for disposing of your man. And let’s also suppose that you actually manage to be one of three married women in the U.S. who doesn’t simply tolerate her husband after 10 years of marriage? So what – that only makes you a unicorn!!! Some women are born with three tits too – am I going to set that as my objective? NAWALTING myself to dust? At best you are a rare exception, but it’s much more likely you are wrong.

    @ All, this post has caused an epiphany for me. I helps me see very clearly the dynamic nature of female affection/attraction. Calling it hypergamy or being wounded by it or whatever is not the point. The point is that female biology and culture conspire to make any affection a man gets from a woman conditional and only in the moment – with the right reserved to withdraw it at any time.

    When I was growing up, like a million years ago, there was an old saying that I used to hear a lot. “It’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind.” Men have long known this, it’s only a recent mistake to actually trust women to be relied upon instead of managed into submission.

    Lesson learned – but too late for me. I’m already ruined. I’ve already been far too hurt by abuse and loss and then all this, there is no chance at happiness for me. In my case, as a shrink told me a long time ago, “You’re fucked. You are what we call a three time winner. Abuse, death of a parent, divorce, and then throw in an alcoholic parent? You never had a chance.”

    You see, that man that women dismiss as a creep, or treat like he’s invisible or dispose of like an old shoe, or call angry might just be on his last legs. He might not be able to take any more loss and abuse and shame and change. He might be like me, all used up by this man-using and masculinity hating society. For me, when my daughter turned on me, in the same kind of way my ex had, something broke inside of me.

    So pardon me if I want one place on earth where I can tell my story and lament my losses and lick my wounds. Given all I’ve been through, can you really not understand why I would like just one male-only space?

    1. @Gleen

      Perhaps you also don’t get that there isn’t another place on earth where I can speak about this? That the entire world isn’t a “safe space” for men to speak the truths I speak here? – The point is that female biology and culture conspire to make any affection a man gets from a woman conditional and only in the moment – with the right reserved to withdraw it at any time.

      Holy hell Aint that the truth. My uncle I love dearly once said after being an his third divorce “don’t ever lose your male friends”

  27. Well, at least within the Christian set, according to Barna, 98% of women are not even investing emotion or thoughts in recognizing their husband’s existence, much less attempting seduction or any other relationship-building exercise.

  28. @BV – Great cite, thanks for it. And these are self-identified Christian women! Only 2% actually even think about making their marriage a priority in their lives.

    In the end, I bet other women would score the same. Was there any cross-cultural data? Of course, we should see the same data for men, but then again it’s the women bailing out of marriages at alarming rates, so we are trying to figure them out.

    This speaks to the utilitarian view women have of men. It’s funny, I’m much more careful of the women in my life now wrt how much I give them without getting something. There are two women who I’m much more demanding of than any other guys in their lives, they are both used to dealing with guys who are pushovers. I don’t tolerate flaking or bad communications,well, to be clear, up front of course one has to, but once in a relationship i find it quite easy to keep them in line, i just have to administer a verbal reprimand – but of course these are women I have a dominant relationship with to begin with. I also do cut them loose quickly when they misbehave but they always seem to drift back to me.

    Both of them now are trained to not ignore my texts and if they do I don’t respond stupidly. I use text game – and it works. Instead of sending a 90 word text explaining how keeping to our plans is a sign of respect and that not communicating can be very inconvenient and inconsiderate, I now wait for them to finally respond and ignore it for a day or two. Then I administer a much simpler remonstration, “u r the worst texter ever” and voila, she’s back, apologizing and it’s like we are best buddies again.

    It’s more like dealing with a puppy than another man though, and this is part of the real let-down in the end, right? I mean, can one really ever partner with a woman? When @sifrellc was citing Jack Donovan’s work “intellectual masculinity” all I could think of was all the faux toughness and masculinity from women that I observe, women aping what they think it means to be male. I also think this ties back to my comments about the propensity and confidence with violence – women can’t fake that visceral aspect. Or I should say rarely do, I’ve met a couple of feral, homicidal women in my life…

  29. @rugby

    That would be the ol’ “Bros before hoes” line of thinking.

    It’s valid to a point. Unfortunately most of the “bros” you’ll meet these days are kept so thirsty that they’ll turn on you as fast as any woman. Of the 5 times in my life I’ve tried to make a serious relationship with a woman, 2 have ended with the women running off with very close male friends.

    If you can find men you can trust, surround yourself with them. If you’re not sure how you determine trustworthiness, I’ve found it to actually be pretty simple: if a man can’t accept Red Pill truths, you can’t trust him. Act accordingly.

  30. @sjfrellc, Glenn

    I’ve seen Donovan mentioned a lot. Think I might check his book out after I finish reading 48 Laws of Power and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

  31. Re-read “Services Rendered”. In it you had this paragraph about guarding the secret of the transactional element of sex.
    “Naturally, women will reinforce the opposite perception. It’s in the feminine’s interest to shame and deride any man pointing out the Achilles heel in their equation. It’s equally important to shame and deride her sisters who’d make a living from practicing the same truth they need to repress. Gold Diggers, Attention Whores, they’re both threats of overtly exposing the mechanics behind the feminine imperative – which is essentially an exchange of provisioning for sexual service – so they must be marginalized and shamed to keep the social convention operating as discreetly as possible.”
    That’s written in 2012. The attention whoring seems to be cheered on now, if it was really shamed in 2012. An increasing amount of girls middle school to high school age have benn wanting to be celebrities as a career goal. There’s the Sanderbergism of open hypergamy. Think that prostitution might spread in it’s legality at some point?

    1. @water cannon boy
      No that would happen in area where it’s going an already la miami and Nevada perhaps Germany and the Netherlands
      @Sun Wukong
      An my team three people had the girlfriends with them in one season and lost the all to other players on other teams after we beat them and when to their house party’s it was really hard to admit but they left each one looking for a better relationship. That was one thing that got me started on red pill thinking. The burden of performance and not knowing shit about anything with intergender dynamics and how my so called liberal up bringing was painful and kept leading me to think of chronic habitual suicide not understanding that in life on life terms is far more beautiful than a fantasy I was force feed.
      One thing rugby does that most sports don’t is knowing you will get hit. You have to. It’s a great way to accept rejection.

  32. Now also re-read Hysteria and the part about denial. The part where you talk about where a person internalizes a mental schema, if you attack that or question it, to them it becomes a personal attack.
    And you bring up Zerlina Maxwell’s automatically believing rape claims article. What you said explains how people in her twitter have called her crazy or ridiculous. But when I merely point out that I see that she change the headline from automatically believing to generally believing, she blocked me.

  33. @ rugby – I’m in sales and it’s the same thing – a ton of rejection. Men need to get good at being rejected.

  34. @WCB

    Think that prostitution might spread in it’s legality at some point?

    No. That would be competition, and if there’s one thing that’s clear when you’re looking at a woman weighing north of 200lbs it’s that she don’t want to compete if she doesn’t have to.

  35. Rollo, are you kidding?

    Sunshine Mary’s gone AWOL on everyone… not to mention, last I remember she was lying about her life – living a double life (one on the internet and one in real life). Besides, her group of churchy-church women already hate me LOL… seriously, I’ve seen at least 3 posts written about me – Oh I’m Satan – no wait, “Dragon,” because I wrote the Art of Seduction post.

    At the very least, if they’re talking about me… I’m stirring them up. But on a whole, I’m not “pure” enough for them.

    1. @Dragonfly
      Tha sounds like the sisters I grew up with. I found this article on Google that talks about that from a women’s perspective (morality) and all http://feminismandreligion.com/2013/09/24/the-purity-complex-are-men-really-less-affected-than-women-by-andreea-nica/
      Social shame is really really powerful and makes it hard to respect someone when for women it’s used from what I observe religion to justify the very thing the religion would like to alter. Seems like a beta hell. Least for me.

  36. Paul, they do that when the say that the men should always do the approaching. Puts the responsibility and risk on the man. That way, if a guy who is interested in her, she just has to flirt a little.
    That’s why you hear some women brag about being able to get any guy they want. If they guy she really wants, the high value ones, isn’t interested, she can just claim she didn’t want him. And will have plenty of ready excuses as to why. And each one supported socially as well as thru pop culture. Things like not wanting a man who’s too good looking. Or not wanting a man who spends more time in the mirror than her. Automatically dismiss the good looking guy she would want to approach, but doesn’t, as too good looking or some other reason.
    The other guy that is interested in her, if he fits within an acceptable range for the moment, then she doesn’t have to do anything. He’s already interested. Her sexuality is her main power. She has nothing to do but be nice to him and accept a date invite.
    But women will also throw away any inhibitions for those they see as really high value males if they get the chance. All types trying to approach celebrities.

  37. @rolotomazi

    First comment:

    “Go girl”

    Modern First World zeitgeist makes me sick sometimes now that I understand it.

  38. @Sun

    Understanding it makes you stronger. Disgust is a reasonable reaction–but amused, worldly understanding is the target zone you want that doesn’t take you toward the bitter MGTOW place. It’s an internal state that needs to become second nature. I read most everything you write, so I know you already have this stuff down.

    Go to the circus; chuckle at the clowns.

  39. The top five books that changed my life in the last forty years.

    1. Atlas Shrugged
    2. The Way of Men
    3. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
    4. The Brothers Karamazov
    5. Anna Karenina

    1,3, 4, and 5, I read 30 years ago.

    honorable mention to “The Sun Also Rises”.

    Sun Wukong, be patient with Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence, bide your way through the first 1/3 of the book it gets better and develops a full head of steam 2/3rds of the way through. A fully unconventional fictionalized book of non-fiction that you will never read any like ever. It is a challenge to read as a book about metaphysical thoughts would be.

    Glenn, I came across this video promotion of Donovan’s book today.

  40. Sun, In the above video, substitute what men would want from each other at the 2:00 mark “if surrounded by zombies” with surrounded by the “Modern First World Zeitgeist”. Men would want, need and demand a team of men with strength, courage, mastery and honor rather than a team of men who were weak, cowardly, incompetent and careless.

    Glenn, I firmly believe your snapping out of your funk lies in teaming up with men with these qualities rather than seeking redemption in conquests with women. You have skills, you have interests and you have experiences that others have not had to move on to a higher plane. Adaptation is the key to moving on. Women should follow a person such as you rather than lead you.

    Another honorable mention book is Aaron Cleary’s “Enjoy the Decline”. I was dejected last year when I read cold hard reality assertions that since 2008 our great country is in decline. I was pissed about his assertions about we being in the beginning of a decline, as great a nation the United States has been for the last 225 years. God damn the Idiocracy.

    But as a stoic person, I find it easy to get through Kubler Ross stages.
    Stoic (noun) 1. a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/

  41. One major significant failing of Ayn Rand was that she was a cold hearted hypergamous Russian bitch with no aspirations toward spirituality. Atheism is a block to spirituality. Spirituality can be a simple as going deer hunting and seeing how crepuscular and nocturnal animals operated in a dog-eat-dog world. Cruel mother nature at work.

    There are only about a billion different “religions” even if they are only have pseudo-integrity. Spirituality is having a higher cause than mundane life. No different that red-pill aware men with game have a “pursuit”.

    You have to have a pursuit and a passion. This bridging the gap between living a roadblocked high hurdle life and the capriciousness of fake religiosity is one of the themes of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance where “Quality” is the thing that makes all of the difference. Quality matters. A lot.

    Red pill theory and game competent men don’t settle. The aspire to quality (they make themselves better men) and the don’t settle for low quality women.

  42. @rollo

    “To the average frustrated husband or sexless mature man I have no doubt these women were like a tall glass of water in the desert. By my own standards they were average, but what I noticed was each woman’s profile offered some variation of “you’ve worked hard, isn’t it time you enjoyed the appreciation you deserve?”

    Men do not want “respect” they want their ideals. I do not know which eskorts you looked at but in Europe, VIP – escorts are young – 18-26 babes with hot bodies. I have not seen your wife but I can tell you right now that EVERY one of those young hotties beats your 40 and something wife in a looks department by a BIG margin.

    This is the point of advocatus diaboli – when even gama men can have the new, top body whenever he wants what is the point of EARNING respect from our aging, unfuckable wives? What is the point of endless “performance” for diminishing results? You want to tell me that you enjoy sex with the same woman without alternative after 5/10 years?? Then you have already forgotten what good sex is.

    Yet we still want to earn respect of our unfuckable wives and yet we still talk about other married men as “average frustrated husbands”. WE are the married champions I know!

    From my point of view – every married man is average frustrate husband. He has to fuck the same woman till his very death…jesus fucking christ, what´s the point of living after this? Ok, at least we have the comfortable excuse for this martyrdom – children.

    It is no miracle that many men are experiencing difficulties with erection after 40. It is a tough job to make their dicks work for their aging wives. Give him a young hottie and he will fuck her life out of her.

  43. just one thing more – it is very sad to see good hearted, succesfull men in a good shape in their late thirties, slaving away the remaining years of their lives in a false hope of “earning” respect from their unfuckable wives. They want only to be accepted like human beings from their women. What is irony – those men BEAT their wives not only in the looks department, they are nice men with good personality, good businessmen, great people. Their wives are the exact opposite.

    Yet those men are still trying to “earn” respect from their wives?

    Or, we have those “succesfull” husbands, bragging that they finally have “respect” of their wives? You are fucking the same aging woman for 15 years, you provide and protect her and you still feel the neeed to earn her respect? Moreover, you brag about it, that you have it? Great men indeed. Noble aspiration, indeed. Noble goal to brag about.

    What is the meaning and real value of this “respect of women”. Has it any value at all? When you are attractive enough, when you satisfy her hypergamy, and as long as you do it, she “respects” you.

    But I do have one question. Do YOU respect yourselves? If so, why?

    This “respect” discussion and the unspoken question – “what can I do MORE to be respected by my wife after sacryfing my whole potential for her” makes me sick.

  44. @ Gregg:
    I fully agree to your last Post.
    What we men have to do first is to earn OUR respect for ourselves!!!

    As hypergamy is uncloaked, its easily to follow that the terms “hypergamy” and “respect” are mutually exclusive to each other.
    In my opinion “respect” and “honor” are deeply manly words.
    Women can’t understand these words fully nor they are willing to understand them, because it would interfere their hypergamic strategy!

    Gregg has written it quiet good. Nothing to add more to this.

    There is only one person that i want respect and admire from…that’s me personally.
    I know that sounds narcissistic somehow, but it is how it is.
    What kind of man are you if you are looking for respect and admiration from a woman, even when that woman is your wife or LTR girl?

    Exactly, you are a poor silly man.

  45. Besides the enlightening words of Rollo, i also wanna thank the “older” men in here. Iam 36.
    It’s a tremendous help for me to learn from your experiences.
    Generations of men have been cut from that kind of knowledge exchange.

    Keep it going, gentlemen!!

  46. “Dragonfly is writing about this because of the single biggest problem in marriages today — most women are married to men who just don’t trip their triggers. Most women are married to men who they are not attracted to; or who are less attractive than the men those women used to have sex with before they got married.”

    The marriage contract automatically beta-izes the husband even if he was alpha to begin with. Women know, if not consciously, then unconsciously, they have the power in the relationship, which reduces her respect and attraction to her man. The law is on her side: She can get him thrown out of the house and jailed (via domestic abuse allegation, VAWA act), she can enslave him via divorce (via alimony and child support) and strip him of most, if not all, of his assets in divorce – the multi-billion dollar divorce industry will gladly assist her in her efforts. All husbands are at the mercy of their wives – and this is a major lady boner killer. We know that women naturally like dominant men, now tell me how the husband is going to be dominant and respected under marriage conditions? … crickets chirping.

  47. Men face legal, financial and emotional annihilation, and even death (suicide) from marriage and divorce. And women destroy themselves too. Most women are cognizant of the fact that they will be much less marketable (due to age, having children, decrease in looks/sex appeal) to other men after divorce, so it is quite easy for these women to become quite vindictive and hostile during a divorce, and the anti-male court system, lawyers, will gleefully help her extract her revenge and pound of flesh from her husband – she will feel entitled to everything and anything that she can get from him and without any remorse. There is a 50% divorce rate, and 70% or so divorces are initiated by women.With the remaining 50% of marriages that remain intact, how many are really happy? How many married men are trapped in bad marriages?

  48. The man I am presently ( and hopefully will always) fascinated with everything he says and does, simply had me at hello.
    His frame is so dominate, so masculine and sure that I simply cannot get enough of him. He treats me with respect, love and lust so that I am getting everything I want from our relationship.
    He is his own man. He does what he wants when he wants. He just happens to be the kind of man who does things that are perfectly ok with me and I respect everything about him.
    He comes from a place of surety about himself which is highly appealing. He doesn’t ask me questions or opinions except rarely which I like.
    He is unshakable and unmovable. He is the first one of his kind I have ever known. And I am not very young!
    All I can think, is, “Where have you been all my life?”
    I have never felt more secure, calm or peaceful.
    I thank God for him every single day of my life!

  49. Your blog is the most pathetic pseudo-intellectual drivel I’ve ever read online. That’s after 15 years of reading the worst the internet septic tank has to offer, including things by proud Nazis, Bronies, and animal molesters. Dogfuckers actually write better articles and support themselves better than you do, I think. Calling yourself “The Rational Male” is an insult to men, rationality, .com websites, the word “the,” the concept of having a blog, language and ideas in general, the internet, human beings in general, etc. In a way, I feel fulfilled that I’ve read the source of an incredibly large amount of retardation on the internet and it’s just as pathetic, inane, and poorly written as I expected it might be.

  50. @ Anypuss

    Pure subjective smear.

    Apearantly your incapable of making an argument or one single cogent point based in fact.

    Not even an attempt to debate on merit.

    Evasion is the root of evil.

    Your should resort back to your dog-fuckers and nazis for inspiration.

  51. My first reaction after this article was that “wow this is such a long post!” I could feel that you went very specific about how you felt on admiration and respects and how much you need these from women around you.

    I’m not here to tell you that your needs are wrong or demanding, but I would like to offer another way to look at these needs.

    I understand that men need to feel these and make them feel valued about themselves, that’s pretty normal, actually. In fact I think all human beings are just like this, regardless of gender difference. However, I find it interesting that there are actually certain percentage of people who do not only need admiration and respects from others, but rather that these people desperately seek those qualities which they believed it’s too scarce to them. Thses people would actually get so hurt and feel unworthiness of themselves when they can’t feel the admiration. Their entire self-evaluation or self-knowledge is based on how much admiration they received from others, rather than the true quality of their personality. This could be the result of past experiences.

    It’s hard to accept the reality that you feel no one there to love you. You feel not understood by women you’ve met. But do you know why you’ve got this hurt feeling inside when you see no admiration from women around you? Do you admire yourself? If not, why not? It’s probably a difficult question to ask and answer to yourself. I would be very surprised to know that if you believe you wouldn’t admire yourself. I think deep down inside, you want to like yourself and want to cheer for yourself. But here’s the secret of true admiration; while admiration from women would certainly add cherry on top, it wouldn’t change the quality of you a bit without their admiration. I think it’s an important fact that you should remember and remind yourself every time you see no admiration from women around you. They couldn’t have known you better than yourself did. You do dserve more credits and admiration from within you.

    Anyone could have difficulties or challenges in relationships, it’s not about being male or female, it’s simply one of those unpleasant facts in life. Everyone is in the same situation like yours, including those women whom you believed that they didn’t admire nor respect you before. They don’t seem to respect and show admiration toward you, but on the other hand, would you discover the admiration you need even if they tried? But failed? Is it fair to say that women you’ve known never tried? Because that might be very likely the case, they didn’t go out of their way to show you, they just tried, but failed. And you wouldn’t even know. I know, just another unpleasant fact of life.

    Maybe this wouldn’t change the fact that you still don’t receive enough admiration you would hope for, but hey, it doesn’t hurt to change the way you approach to this. It’s a lot easier for you to deal with the stress when relating to women.

    One last thing, don’t fall for women because they admire you. Fall for your girl because you love who she is, you love all those perfections and imperfections. It’s the same way a girl would fall for her guy.

  52. Hey, guys…I’ve been sitting here reading this specific blog post plus the comments for the past hour (as part of an ebook I am writing), and I would like to add my perspective.

    But before I begin, I’ll start off by saying that I’m a female. Yes. You read that correctly. Not apologizing for it. Just stating that fact.

    Also, in case you’re curious, the ebook I am writing is actually on behalf of someone else, via a freelance writing site. The title of the ebook is about women who test men.

    Now, I can’t pretend to know what you’re all thinking about what I’ve just revealed. But I bet it’s something akin to shock. Since we’re not sitting face to face, I will simply have to assume that that is the case.

    But, to get to my point of posting:

    1) A woman who is confident in herself doesn’t really need to “test” guys. But I would wager someone like that who still wants a guy to be with, romantically, is not out to “ball-bust.” She could easily be CEO of her own company and be self-aware enough to not pull the managerial stuff when she’s at home. I’m all for feminism in the sense that women can be just as capable as the men in the typical male-dominated career paths, but many women have taken that as license to be man-haters in general. And I admit, as a woman who likes to be around men (not the rude-as-anything a-holes, mind you. I respect myself too much for that), I find this hatred very disappointing and shameful.

    2) When I hear from guys how the women they’re with demand certain things from them beyond what is sane and reasonable (the sharing of common household duties, for example, along with just being caring and loving human beings overall), I find myself siding with the MEN. Yes, you guys. Why? It is not so much that I have a “masculine” mindset. It’s that when I hear of members of my own gender making crazy demands like, “I’m gonna withhold sex until I get what I want,” I’m like, say WHAT? That, to me, is ridiculous.

    For one, the women that do this to guys are depriving themselves of good sex to begin with, let alone that lovely rush of oxytocin that bonds couples together (yes, I am an unapologetic sex-science geek). Secondly, I have personally seen what damage manipulation does to ANY human relationship, romantic, or mother-son, father-daughter, etc. It is NOT pretty. Perhaps I say this because I never grew up having lots of close girlfriends. Or perhaps I say this because of my life circumstances, or my personal spiritual values. Whatever it is, I find myself shaking my head, because certain sectors of my own gender have come to be truly, dangerously narcissistic to the point of hurting the men they’ve claimed to love.

    3) One comment about women keeping up their bodies for the sake of getting good sex from their men caught my eye.

    I am going to add to this–and this is for BOTH the men and the women.

    Having a physically fit body is not just about being attractive, it lessens, and perhaps eliminates the need for things like Viagra (for the men), and it keeps the libido going for BOTH genders. And being physically fit reduces the danger of chronic diseases. So it benefits BOTH the men and the women’s desire for GREAT–not just good–sex, if both eat a healthy diet and exercise. (Like I said, I am an unapologetic science geek).

  53. This reminds me of those times when certain guys would tell me how other women (usually HB6s or under) told them they were “hot” or “good-looking”. I would always laugh it off and say “Yeah, I guess that means she likes you”, but not comment on their looks positively myself at all. This reaction did not sit well with those guys, haha!

    Actually, over time they would become more and more “needy” and insecure about their looks (one even admitted he had been very unhappy about it when he was younger…) Why? Because they were obviously seeking *my* validation; they wanted me to compliment them, make them feel like someone, make them feel appreciated by me; and possibly make me feel more attracted to them somehow. I could see through all of this and ignore it, besides the fact I did not find those guys physically attractive from the start and would not lie to someone saying I found them hot when I did’t.

    Obviously, this entire behaviour was a big turn off for me. It is so unappealing to a woman when a guy is constantly “fishing for compliments”, especially when it comes to his looks.

    At last, one of my principles has always been to not enter a relationship with a man who I do not admire and/or respect. Admiration of a man is not highly wonderful only for himself, but also the woman who admires him. My mother has admired my father for decades now, and they are still happily married. I wish the same for myself (and my future husband) someday.

  54. Men, gain some muscle mass and the women will LOVE and respect you!! Confidence just happens when you get in to bodybuilding, it just sneaks up on you, testosterone is increased and you will give off serious manly vibes that the ladies love….just do it!

  55. Wow, if you read advice for women of how to deal with men you get the same thing. It seems that both sides play the pulling away game to get the other more interested. We says it goes back to wanting something you can’t have. But we aren’t talking about food here we are talking about another human being. The fear of caring for someone more than they care for you plays an important role in this game. The phenomena of losing respect and desire for those that want you some much is an unfortunate part of how most people are.

    Men want praise, maybe more than women but what do women praise. Women praise mostly when, conscientiously or not, they are getting their needs meet. Think about what you want praise/admiration for and why? Are they really praise/admiration worthy things?? Is it because you put the toilet seat down..lol Would you expect a man to praise/admire you for something like that. Does you roommate praise/admire you when you took the garbage out when it is your turn? There are things people need to just do without too much expectation from those around them and that is being a grown up. Praise/admiration comes from decision making that helps the relationship unit and/or is something that is of high achievement for that person. So, for example, you smoked and now you have stopped. That deserves praise from your significant other. Or maybe you lost weight. Or maybe you built the desk your child needs. What people do is look at the choices they make and from that determine if praise/admiration is the right response. Expectation of praise/admiration without doing anything for it would be worthless.

    Now if you are doing praise worthy things and you are still not getting the response from you significant other then there is another problem and hopefully communication would solve that or kick them to a curb because your needs for praise/admiration might never be received.

    I hope you all find what you are looking for.

  56. This is why the world is so skewed .. seriously this is how you think????????????????????

    Everyday I’m miss positivity and giving compliments, affirmations to my partner, I’m female, he’s male … what do I benefit from that …. shit and abuse, no return of compliments, no affirmations, ohhhhhhh uintil he’s like oh baby I ‘need’ ….. Go to hell

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