Managing Expectations

expectations

One question I was asked during the Christian McQueen interview was what my perspective on a “healthy” kind of love would look like. Anyone familiar with my writing understands that, to the best of my objectivity, I try to be as descriptive as I can when it comes to the dynamics I analyze. The Rational Male will always be an endeavor in descriptiveness, not prescribing what I think anyone ought to be doing. I’ve run down my reasons for this in the past, but the solutions to your problems begin with your understanding the nature of those problems. I’ll give you tools, observations and suggestions, but my hope is you’ll use them in your life according to your need.

As I said in the interview, my interest isn’t in making Rollo Tomassi clones, and anyone telling you they have a customized plan to lead you to the relationship of your dreams is selling you something (likely a $1200/month ‘counseling’ retainer). That said, I’m going to break protocol here for a moment and see if I can provide you with some general observation about what I believe are the foundations of a heathy love relationship.

From a Red Pill perspective I’d say the first and most important thing for a man to grasp is coming to terms with realistic expectations with women based in Red Pill awareness.

In a Blue Pill paradigm men are conditioned to believe that Blue Pill goals are both attainable and worthwhile in the effort needed to achieve them. Deferring to feminine primacy, deffering to feminine correctness and essentially enabling and facilitating the ends of women’s sexual strategy are all the hallmarks of that conditioned thinking.

In Mental Point of Origin I explain how a man’s origin of thought is conditioned to default to a feminine purpose; he puts his first thought to the benefit of the feminine rather than himself and it takes either a very traumatic personal episode or a Red Pill awakening for a man to realize how thorough his conditioning has been.

I’m reviewing this Blue Pill mindset because the expectations a man has of a woman while he’s trapped in that mindset is radically different when he moves into (and accepts) a Red Pill awareness. That may seem a bit remedial for Red Pill men now, but it’s important to be reminded of how much your expectations of women have shifted since you came into that new awareness.

There was a time when you were Blue Pill and not taking a woman seriously at her word – as opposed to understanding the primary importance of her actions – was probably offensive to you. Any White Knight you encounter in life is still basing his expectations of women in that same egalitarian equalist premise that women are rational agents with an equal interest in men’s goals and purpose. The mistake being that they put faith in the idea that men and women have intellectually risen above the influences of their evolved psychology and can be relied upon to behave reasonably and in each other’s best interests.

Ironically a Beta /White Knight’s methodology for qualifying for women’s intimate attentions are still rooted in performing to the standards of what he believes is a pre-understood social contract between men and women. However, his expectations of women and how they’ll reciprocate his feminine-identifying efforts is where he’s gravely in error.

It’s my belief that Red Pill men need to come to realistic expectations of women based on their Red Pill awareness in order to come to a loving relationship with women. Accepting that reality also means accepting the differing concepts men and women have with regard to love. That’s a very tall order for men still coming to terms with the fact that their Blue Pill conditioning made them hopeful they could sustain a love based on Blue Pill expectations of women. Their idealistic concept of love has an end-goal of that concept being mutually reciprocated by a woman; this is the Blue Pill hope for love.

Love in the Age of Equalism

Egalitarian equalism between the sexes is nominally based on an acceptance of agreed terms, but love, like desire, is not the result of a process of negotiation.

What’s more ironic is that the more pronounced the efforts in gender parity are in society the more pronounced the men and women in that society cling to traditional sex differences:

To the contrary, most cross-cultural studies find nations with the highest sociopolitical gender equality (e.g., Scandinavian nations) exhibit the largest psychological sex differences in the world. You read that correctly. Higher gender egalitarian nations tend to have larger sex differences in mate preferences for Good Looks, in Big Five personality traits and the Dark Triad traits of Machiavellianism, Narcissism, and psychopathy; in romantic attachment and love styles; in sociopolitical attitudes and personal values; in clinical depression rates and crying behavior; in tested cognitive and mental abilities; and in physical attributes such as height and blood pressure[97]. If sociopolitical gender egalitarianism is supposed to reduce sex differences to the point where they “disappear,” it’s doing a terrible job. In fact, it’s most often doing the exact opposite. Without the constraints of patriarchal sex role socialization, it appears men and women are freer to follow their evolved desires in ways that lead to even greater psychological difference

It’s important to recognize truths like this because our acculturation in an equalist doctrine of gender parity is often never considered with regard to how the sexes interpret a loving relationship. How a society perceives love on a meta level is greatly influenced by the degree to which that society considers and acknowledges sex differences. I’ve stated in the past that androgyny is not a goal-state for any species – it leads to stagnation and an inability to adapt. Androgyny becomes homogeny; an evolutionary dead end, and the statistics seem to back this up. When a society idealizes a state of homogeny between the sexes that society presumes love is also homogenous.

Play with her, and play with her

I’ve mentioned in the past that revealing Red Pill truths to women you want to become intimate with is ultimately a self-defeating effort. The same can be said for women you may be involved with at the moment and are attempting to convince of your new Red Pill identity. Once you let a woman in on the Game it changes the game. Observing a process will change that process. This is known as the observer-expectancy effect, or the Hawthorne effect which is a “form of reactivity in which subjects modify an aspect of their behavior, in response to their knowing that they are being studied.”

In my perspective this is the main reason couples’ therapy, marriage counseling and Purple Pill couples’ coaching is ineffective. Those negotiations that are supposed to lead to a better relationship and a “healthy” love are founded on Blue Pill goals and Blue Pill expectations of an equalist understanding that men and women are fundamental equals with an equal interest in rational problem solving.

Why am I inserting this here? Because your Red Pill expectations of women must remain stoically within yourself.

Once your expectations of women are out in the open the process has changed. Women love Men who Just Get It, but explaining how you Get It disqualifies you from being the Man who does. Demonstrate, never explicate.

In a way I pity the women who identify themselves as Red Pill women. Not because I think their efforts are misplaced, but because they become privy to Red Pill truths and now have a different awareness of that observer-expectancy effect. The process is changed with regard to how they deal with men, maybe their husbands, and now they can no longer play the Game without some peripheral awareness that they are playing a game. The machinations of it are revealed so the context becomes one of identifying aspects of those truths and being self-conscious of men’s and their own behaviors being influenced by them.

In coming to terms with Red Pill expectations of women a man must embrace some ugly realities. Those realities that used to be denied or sugar coated with the pretty lies of the Blue Pill can rub you raw. Among others, Hypergamy, women’s sexual and love opportunism and the potential of damning a man to a life of indentured servitude are tough expectations to have to weigh against the idealistic want of a healthy loving relationship with a woman.

There will be a contingent of men who’ll insist women be held accountable for the worst of these behaviors. While I don’t necessarily disagree with that sentiment, there will always be a want for personal accountability and justice for women’s actions from men, however, this belief is still rooted in the idea that women are coequal and rational actors. That personal accountability desire is based in an equalist mindset. That’s not to say women shouldn’t be held accountable for the results of their impulses, or given license to them – Hypergamy is not itself an excuse for the worst of its consequences. Moreover, it is to say that a Red Pill aware man needs to base his expectations of women on the Red Pill foreknowledge of what her instincts and impulses will lead her to.

Conventional Love Model

I posted the following comment in response to Girl With a Dragonfly Tattoo’s recent plea for women to embrace empathy and / or sympathy:

Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand and accept this never expect empathy from women to begin with. For that man, either a woman meets his criteria for his investment or he drops her for a better prospect.

Only in a feminized equalist society do men expect in-kind reciprocation from women. As a man, your “needs” are only important to you. Men’s disappointment comes from expecting a balanced return on his emotional investment and relational equity; this is the result of his egalitarian equalist conditioning. It sucks and it’s offensive to men because they’ve believed for most of their lives that there should be an equitable exchange of emotional and personal investments – his woman should have his needs and his best interests in mind in a like fashion that he has for her; this is not and has never been the case.

In fact it’s a recipe for failure, since it puts men into a position of neediness, and thus forces him to negotiate for his woman’s desire.

I’ve made an attempt in today’s post to address this last part. A great deal of men’s frustrations with women finds its root in an equalist expectation of a like-for-like exchange of intimacy. In A New Hope I explained how a man might cast off his former hope for a Blue Pill solution to the problems inherently created by an egalitarian mindset. I think it’s vitally important for men to keep that in mind – the source of those problems offers the false hope of a solution to those problems.

As a man it is important to understand that love will always, necessarily, be an unequal exchange of sacrifice for a woman. You simply don’t share the same concept of love with a woman. There are complementary benefits, but never assume your investment with a woman will be an equitable tradeoff. Men weren’t designed for that, this is why notions of relational equity is a real tough ego-investment for a man to abandon when he comes to Red Pill awareness.

In closing, what I find interesting in all of this was recalling how my Vulnerability post was received. That was an important post because it described the expectation of submissiveness and surrender that the Feminine Imperative and egalitarian equalism inculcate in men. Even the definition of the word was recreated to fit the doctrine – weakness is strength – and more than a few critics still clinging to that Blue Pill boilerplate wanted to re-redefine it in some way to be palatable to both the manosphere and that old Blue Pill hope. That’s the essence of the Purple Pill.

What they fail to realize is the inherent vulnerability men face in loving a woman at all. All risk, with no realistic expectation of reciprocation of his emotional investment and even greater risk of rejection for expressing that expectation – now that’s vulnerability. Egalitarian equalism always stresses the importance of men and women meeting each other’s needs to achieve a balanced loving relationship. This is a fundamentally flawed premise in the context of feminine social primacy. In a Blue Pill paradigm a man’s needs are always subordinate to a woman’s. That is vulnerability – a man putting faith in the presumption that a woman’s sustained long-term interests will ultimately serve his own.

Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.

204 comments

  1. “Without the constraints of patriarchal sex role socialization, it appears men and women are freer to follow their evolved desires in ways that lead to even greater psychological difference”

    Was demonstrated in this doc very well.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask

    The freer a society, the more free they are to follow their hearts, rather than obligations.

  2. Great post. This really helps helps define a truly healthy male love for a woman. I could never imagine marriage counseling could work. You can’t just ask someone to lust for you.

  3. “[]..no longer play the Game without some peripheral awareness that they are playing a game.”

    This is an issue I think we deal with too. I believe the underlying mechanics that we now understand creates a lack of imagination. The stimulation from improvising is replaced with a systematic strategy.

  4. Great post. Somehow it’s a sad conclusion (‘Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.’) and also that it seems women can only truly love and show empathy towards their own children. In a way a man can see that they are capable of doing so by looking how his wife takes care of his children. But well, that’s not an answer. Not to me. And also you don’t provide ready answer. I don’t think anyone from us can. There’s no turning back, I cannot go back to being blue pill guy again. I will know the truth till the end of my life. It’s like 1st LSD trip or such. You’ll never forget it. 😉 The question is how to live life with all this grim knowledge.

    Regards
    __
    Datson H.
    https://redmalehummingbird.wordpress.com/

  5. It would seem then, that we are back to women only being good for one thing. Even now, I would like to believe more is possible, but sadly that does not appear to be the case. It’s not that men wouldn’t like for women to be more to us. They simply are incapable of it.

  6. In life, in all aspects and all areas, if something can be identified as “feminine”, it is inherently flawed, actively seeking an external fix to the preexisting problems, and any attempted fix will make the problem worse.

    Women are innately unhappy. Any active attempts to make them happy will only exacerbate the problem. A woman cannot be happy on her own. But let her attach herself to a Man whom she loves, and she’ll experience life through him and feel HIS happiness.

  7. “Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.”

    that, once accepted is liberating

  8. Blue Pill = Twice the effort, half the return
    Red Pill = Half the effort, twice the return

    I’d rather follow MGTOW than waste time giving too much for too little in return. If I can’t make it happen with my comfort level of investment, then I need to spend more time improving myself and less time trying to ‘get’ her.

  9. “Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand and accept this never expect empathy from women to begin with.”

    Is that Red Pill enough? Sure, you’ll never get that Empathy from being weak or needy, in real need of protection or nurturing. But you can still trigger that caring instinct in women – by hurting/shocking/frightening (not necessarily physical) her. BadBoy Assholes with some “vulnerability spots” get plenty of Empathy/Sympathy. Remember Christian Grey? That poor man was used as a sex slave by that friend of his evil mother and she’ll spend all her love to heal him. The hamster comes up with funny things if you trigger that instinct. And often, if you “translate” the hamster to proper rational thinking they aren’t even that far off. I came to think “the evil mother” is roughly the hamster version of “the female nature” as of Red Pill.

  10. In a way I pity the women who identify themselves as Red Pill women.

    For me personally, and I read other women say the same, the Game is better now. It’s more fun. The worry and doubt about who I should be and what I should be doing are gone. Open pride in my husband has lead to far more fun and excitement in our relationship.

  11. Great post, wow, just so penetrating. Thanks for this. And of course, this is why we use to raise men to be tough – because we had to be.

    I remember in my late 20s, married and commuting on a train in and out of NYC every day, and thinking about how thankless my life was. I started out the day at dawn or before and was rarely home before 7:30. My ex was already going south on me already and I was watching my baby daughter become closer to her than me. The irony of that really grabbed me one day when I realized my daughter simply would never know or likely appreciate the sacrifices that I made so she could have a stay-at-home mother. She would never realize that I consciously sacrificed being close to my daughter so she could have a Mom that was there for her while she was growing up. Don’t get me wrong, I was a loving Dad when i was around, but I worked a lot trying to build my career – successfully.

    As I considered this, I also realized that my role in the family was to be bigger than my petty joys and losses. I actually would have loved to spend a lot more time at home with my daughter. I had a big part of raising my younger sister after my mom died after giving birth to her, when I was 11. I could change diapers, feed, bathe – give complete care to an infant actually because when she was with me and my sister and my Dad, my sister and I cared for her. I also loved babies. I had taught my wife a number of things about how to care for an infant actually, which she resented.

    But I was content to know that while I might never be appreciated for it, my daughter would grow up more secure and well developed because she had a stay at home mom. My satisfaction had to come from that and that alone.

    What my expectations never anticipated is that I could be discarded like an old shoe, used for cash for 17 years after that, and then discarded by my daughter as well. I always thought I would at least be treated like I was a father and have that basic respect shown for me. Hell, just for the 400k I spent raising her, I thought I earned that. But nah, nope. Funniest? After the whole thing hit the fan with my daughter and just before the Red Pill for me, I reached out to my ex to see if she would consider intervening with my daughter, as I couldn’t comprehend how she could see it as okay to for our daughter to write me off. I felt like I would never support my daughter doing that to her mother, that she always owed her respect and silly me, I thought she’d actually try and help me. She didn’t give a shit. She was glad.

    And you have to get this. There was never a complaint about what kind of father was when my daughter was growing up. In fact, on many occasions my ex and others involved would tell me what a good Dad I was. This wasn’t some situation where the asshole ex-hubby can’t get over it and makes scenes. My ex married the guy she left me for and I never made a scene about it in front of my daughter once. I didn’t tell her what happened until she was 18 so she wouldn’t have to grow up with that – she had already figured it out. Everyone in my life thought I was a devoted, involved Dad. Sure, I was far from perfect – but there was never an issue ever mentioned wrt my commitment or visitation or being present in her life. Never.

    My point? If that’s what I should expect, why the fuck would I ever sign up for that again? Why would any man? And while it doesn’t happen to every man, it happens a lot. I also know very few men married for the long term who are happy, in fact most of them are worn down to little nubs of the men they once were. If this is what we should expect? Nah.

    I’m happy to be pay the freight and not be thanked – I’m just not willing to be shit on to boot. Just sayin’…

  12. @rollo OP “As a man it is important to understand that love will always, necessarily, be an unequal exchange of sacrifice for a woman. You simply don’t share the same concept of love with a woman. There are complementary benefits, but never assume your investment with a woman will be an equitable tradeoff.”

    I still maintain that women are incapable of love. They merely use. The purpose of the using changes as their SMV changes, but there is no female “love”.

    But my question Rollo is what are these “complementary benefits” for the unequal sacrifice? Conversation? Doubtful. Loyalty? Impossible. Companionship? Buy a dog. There’s only sex and children. For the inequitable risk, whores and adoption may be the way to go.

  13. @Atticus, the way I see it, all evidence says children are better off being raised in an intact family. That being said, how do you manage that these days? The feminine has ejected from the old deal and a new deal has yet to truly materialize. I think we are simply at the end of another cycle of empire. It will all fall apart eventually and a new patriarchal society will emerge from the ashes. As Aaron Clarey says, “Learn to enjoy the decline.”

  14. Excellent as usual; I do however have one thing to put out there.

    I know there will be disagreement and doubters, but revealing red pill truths to women has literally gotten me laid. Maybe its not the info, but rather who is delivering it and the manner its delivered. Maybe its the type of women I deal with (feminists in the bay area). It invokes a sexual rage in some women I swear that leads to impulsive action. That being said, I wouldn’t advise making it a go to play.

  15. Any thoughts on having already let the cat out of the bag in regards to Red Pill in a marriage?

    Have discussed Red Pill stuff with my wife for years, since discovering it with the Misandry Bubble. Even got her to read that.

    She now sees things she did not when I point out the dynamics of other people’s relationships or character choices in entertainment.

    I only now get that from my perspective, letting her in on ‘the secret’ was not the best choice for myself.

    Do I try to put the cat back in the bag, or do I just not worry about it, not bring it up, and do my thing?

  16. @ITTO. Everyone says two parents are better, but with Dad and Mom both working are there even two parents? I have 4, ages 20,18,16,14 and I have to say that after age 6, I made all major decisions, did school projects, corrected papers, checked homework, taught them all to ride bikes, cut the grass, etc. Of my main jobs was to keep her from screaming at them so much ( not that I didn’t yell also).

    I just don’t see any benefit women provide other than sex. No wonder they hate porn and prostitution.

    Watching the history channel on the Ottoman Empire the other night, I was fascinated that the Sultans never married. They had huge Harems of captured Christian slaves that they impregnated until a male heir was born. Then She was done with sex. The sultan moved on to one of the others. The Ottoman system provided some of the greatest leaders of all time and ruled a large part of the world for 800 years.

    Until Suliman married for love for the first time. She bore him six children. The Ottoman Empire was bankrupt 100 years later.

  17. Two parents where better. What we have now is not. I need to do more research for specifics but I believe both cases of Rome and the Ottoman empire become more feminized as their empires aged. I’d love to know more if there are any historians reading the thread.

  18. @Rollo. Tragic. I can’t imagine mine being taken from me when they were little. There has to be a better way.

  19. Do I try to put the cat back in the bag

    No. Just do your thing. Hamsters can be a good thing. Use it to your advantage and things will be good.

  20. The west cannot survive feminism. It is being colonized by east Asians especially in all of the status professions and STEM.

    The Hispanics colonize the south and southwest.

    A new, non anglo, “society” (value-system) will rise – patriarchy.

  21. @Nathan
    > The Hispanics colonize the south and southwest.

    This is one of the great, ongoing social experiments of our day.

    Ignored by the media for more sensational clickbait like the muslim colonization of Europe, the rise of Latin culture in America may have far more profound effects.

    The Latin Americans have a sexual culture (macho culture) that works in the real world of men and women. If that should hybridize with American initiative and risk-taking culture, we may see something that will surprize the world!

  22. $1200 a month is cheap! I charge like $2K up front then $100 an hour. Avg. client bill, $3200. Meh.

    As to the unsurprising soldier clusterfuck, I’ll keep standing on my desk and saying it: “Cops and soldiers are, to a one, as beta as beta can be”. It’s the rules they must follow and the expectation of ruthlessness and power that they DO NOT HAVE. It psychologically destroys them and their identity.

  23. interesting isn’t it, America, the one garden of Eden on earth, because of Eve (feminism) is being colonized by foreign peoples.
    and it will never be the same again

  24. Uh…Nathan. Hate to have to point this out to a grown up, but America’s history is all about being colonized by foreign peoples. Unless you’re 100% Native American, that includes YOUR ancestors.

  25. Whenever I read Rollo I’m stuck with the image of being on a hill surveying an empty valley with the wind in my face totally alone.

  26. Diplomat, you (likely purposefully) miss the meaning.
    this is a “goodbye, America” sentiment.
    America as associated with white anglo-saxon Protestant ethics and values.

    don’t be a dumbass

  27. Very insightful comment Tillikum. The psychological conditioning basically teaches them conflicting principles all at once. Soldiers don’t economically benefit for service; unlike prior ages where they reaped huge rewards for taking risks in warfare.

  28. @ Nathan – And those values lead to the development of the most vibrant, free, safe and prosperous society in the history of civilization. But hey, let’s throw all that in the garbage in because most women can’t be bothered to study the classics and understand what it is we actually have in the west. It isn’t the men who’ve elected all these socialists.

    Look at what’s happening in Sweden – its standard of living is collapsing from willy-nilly immigration and multi-kulti madness. We have destroyed the very fabric of our society in 60 years. Nice work, Progressive-Marxists, now bring on Hillary for the kill shot…

  29. Re: The Diplomat – Your comment is like saying, “Well lots of people lived in this house before you” when I’m saying, “My family is falling coming apart”. In other words, nonsense.

  30. “In a way I pity the women who identify themselves as Red Pill women. Not because I think their efforts are misplaced, but because they become privy to Red Pill truths and now have a different awareness of that observer-expectancy effect. The process is changed with regard to how they deal with men, maybe their husbands, and now they can no longer play the Game without some peripheral awareness that they are playing a game.”

    Part of me wonders whether this is entirely accurate in all contexts. It seems to me that one half of the Blue Pill is the acculturation of women from birth in “Girl Power,” “have it all” and “explore your sexuality” Sandberg style “feminism” which is really the female oriented programming to accommodate the unrestrained FI. In an earlier age and before this was ubiquitous in the cultural ether, I think girls were taught more Red Pill truths about themselves and what motivated their desires, and the danger in allowing their desires to overmaster the end game of acquiring a sufficient provider husband of relative high status within the community. Girls with “bad reputations” were slut shamed by women and deemed damaged goods such that they could expect lesser provider prospects than their looks would otherwise allow, if any at all. A man married to a known slut would suffer a loss of status as a result. Think Violet versus Mary in It’s a Wonderful Life as an illustration. It was a sort of development of future time orientation in girls’ mental makeup. I do emphasize community in that modern style urbanism (where young people move away to the big city and are semi-anonymous in their twenties and thirties, together with later first marriage ages) has made this environment unworkable. But I do think that if girls and women had a more frank understanding of their desires and how they are hard wired with a paradox when it comes to attraction, viz, that they are most attracted to men least willing or able to provide commitment and material resources, they would be better able to make the necessary tradeoffs to maximize their own happiness rather than engaging in a cruel snipe hunt for a decade or more before settling out of pure desperation.

    But I do agree with Rollo that if a particular woman knows that a particular man with whom she interacts has worked on his own Red Pill awareness and is demonstrating that in practice – rather than being a “natural” – she would most likely consider the man to be play acting and be wary of that man for fear that he was a true Beta “tricking” her sense of attraction into believing he was instead an Alpha. It would be akin to a woman finding the one day rental receipt for a Ferrari in the glove box – an unmasking of sorts.

  31. I was waiting for a post like this, but it still leaves me with questions.
    Currently, I’m at a stage in my life where I’m planning for the future. Due to luck and diligence, I’ve achieved some success in my career as well as accumulating a good chunk of change. In the medium term, my hope is to marry a traditional Asian woman and build a family. My question is this: how am I to build a family with a woman while fully cognizant of her hypergamous nature? If all women share the same traits, can I travel anywhere across the globe to find a decent partner? The only pragmatic solution I can find is to build my smv so that it is high relative to my wife’s value. She will then have less incentive to divorce, but this only mitigates the risk and does not eliminate it..
    And, of course, I must shelter my assets prudently so that they are out of her reach in case of divorce.
    Having only recently taken the red pill, I find it difficult to reconcile the idea of marriage with the painful truths I’ve learned….
    Thoughts?

  32. Rollo – “There are complementary benefits, but never assume your investment with a woman will be an equitable tradeoff.”

    You will never get out what you put in.

  33. Every woman is expendable. Their candles burn out long before any man who has control of himself and takes care of himself. No woman is worth all this trouble. Understanding the truth written about here is worth the trouble.

  34. Is there any value in teaching our daughters Red Pill truths? What can we do to help them navigate that part of their lives?

  35. @ Tom – My two cents are that you can only ever reduce and never eliminate the risk of a woman straying from you. You can derive clues from her prior behavior as to whether she’s developed restraint but in the end it could always happen. A catastrophic loss in status may assure that it does, and even if you’ve married a foreign woman if you’ll reside in the West you’ll still be subject to U.S. divorce law and all of its perverse incentives and outcomes. If she tires of fucking you and is attractive enough to get attention from high status males, she could still very well ruin your life via a unilaterally initiated divorce. But remember that hypergamy isn’t necessarily the notion that a woman can’t be faithful, only that her instinct is to seek higher status males when they are available to her and reciprocate her sexual availability with whatever she needs/wants. You minimize women’s instinct by being high status – and as high status as she can expect to extract attention/commitment from – but i don’t think it can be fully eliminated.

  36. @Glenn

    From where I’m standing, the Feminine Imperative in America springs right out of the good old Anglo-Saxon cultural milieu. It’s even a right-leaning, SUV driving, Christian soccer mommy disease at this point. I meet these entitled harpies every day when I go pick my sons up from grade school. We really can’t blame it on the straw man of invading foreign hordes and imaginary Marxists. Maybe there are other more appropriate forums where such subjective political topics could be better discussed. This oasis, TRM, is primarily devoted to the psychology of gender relations and sharing personal stories/advice related to that topic. It would serve us all better to keep it in that zone.

  37. @The Diplomat

    First, the FI isn’t a cultural invention – it just is. It’s something probably hardwired in our female ancestors’ brains in prehistory. It’s a strong instinct, most likely an adaptation to the unstable nature of human societies where the man or men on top in one minute become maimed/dead/overthrown the next and fidelity to them would mean a loss of resources and status within the community and likely death for a woman and her children. If some prehistoric woman’s mate was gored by an aurochs while out hunting, or a bronze age woman’s village overrun by invaders, it is in her genetic interests to trade up from her now former lower status mate (who may well be dead) quickly to the highest status mate she can attract. This is the way of women – cf. women “collaborators” who slept with German soldiers in occupied France, and how the communities punished them when the Germans were driven out.

    Second, you must be hiding under a rock if you don’t understand or acknowledge that the purposeful unleashing of the FI is a Left wing project with its roots in the Marxist Frankfurt School which fled the rise of Hitler and established itself at Columbia University in the 1930s rather than an organic socio-political movement arising from the “good old Anglo-Saxon cultural milieu.” One can be entirely agnostic as regards a political or ideological valuation of the Frankfort School and still admit that what we see today are the fruits of its program for good or ill.

  38. This is a fantastic post and, as always, it seems to drag out into the light all those murky half-realizations and intuitions I had during my relationships. But, as ever, with those things demystified and clarified, I’m left with the question as to why I should even bother attempting to have relationships with women if this is how things really are.

  39. @Alec Leamas I would never marry in the United States or any western country. Family courts are biased and the risks are heavily skewed towards the man.
    Although it is a drastic measure, expatriation to a “patriarchal” society is one way to mitigate frivorce risk.

  40. Don’t women take risk by giving birth to beta men? Alpha fux… She bangs him the guy she tells the beta to not be or invest himself to be. But when she does bang a beta what if she only uses him for resources for the alphas seed? Didn’t women take some risk in having their own social convention of shame used in them? Or would no women ever shame another go banging the alphas brains out? In due course I only see women ever bring this up when they have already had children. In my blue pill days so for a huge portion of my life I was shamed and condemned for speaking up for myself in developing game.
    My farther beat the shit out of me emotionally by demanding my mothers need being meet. I think that part scared me shitless. Does the end justify the means? Don’t women risk being with beta men who they hate for having to define the leader for? My mother punched me in the face when I brought up how beta my farther was because of how confused I was on not only respect but self worth. My mom though by doing everything I did in a femine way I would even have a chance at igniting a women’s interest in sex. It never worked and my main point is that when my mom would scream get head off at me she explained to me in a harsh way that my farther had the condom slep. So apparently etheir having an x and Y chromosome is only ok when a man who has both shows affections in the right alpha fux part or the beta male my farther gets insulted for impregnating my biological creator and being a reminder of her anger for not being able to have a female child. I just think women risk being socialy ostracized for being willing to put up with “men” that are not just feminized but mutilated for play. Maybe that’s just me seening both my sisters get in a fight and stab each other but I don’t know if it’s just the man. My whole farthers family didnt get along with my mothers. Both where extremely religious and defined sex by morality. The weird thing is abortion apparently it’s ok for women to decide what alpha they fuck with can create a baby. But religion clouds that by saying no please don’t fo that. Even thought in Utah where I went to school the state has a huge out of marrige pregnancy rate. I suppose what I am getting at is in public if women make a point about being open with alpha fux and beta bux don’t they get attacked by other women and doesn’t tha count as risk? The women I grew up with hating me for noticing that part and do not and will not ever speak with me about it. I tried in therapy to get my family to bring that up and one politely reminding me to shut up. By politely they made a point to say how mentality off I was. Women seem to get shit for being women who want alpha seed. Someone like my mother who would remind my dad how she had other men who where more interested in being her mate. My dad asked my mom 17 times to marry her. I just wonder if women ever feel stress and attack for admitting that they do enjoy fucking the guy who isn’t asking to get fucked. My mom growing would play that shit on me. “Your my man” while than belittling me for building something that wasn’t femenine. It pissed me off because it became a joke for them to laugh at. Hey son to bad you don’t enjoy hitting people to get attention. No one in my family respected boundaries and my beta farther hating me deeply for pointing that out in my teenage yrs. my mom would mock me in front of my dad and as any alpha would you defend the one you love. My mom was a constant reminder of shit test to infinity. My farther would only defend me as a joke. The alpha in me would get up and leave the so called home I lived in. But coming back to that place makes me wanna burn it down. Again don’t women risk in a sense social ostriziation for admitting that openly they want to be with the men that come home sweaty and full of dirt? Or be just as open about hating a man who is a farther that not only is suppose to be a provider but is insulted openly for never being a good dad? I am not or ever have been a good son. But I never was allowed to love not just my gender but my personality. No one who ever meet me can recall a memory I didnt fabricate for them. In a way that may have been me turning into a women to cope with extreme acts of violence committed by my own “keen” my mother could stop my farther from beating me up for doing things remotely “male” but she was ruthless in killing any sense of game I noticed in high school. Again maybe it’s all to much to think about but in public maybe it won’t ever come up which is why women never have to worry about risk. Just controlling birth and who she plays with. By the way if you have kids please for their sake this still hurts thinking about please try to avoid talking about passes lovers in front of them. I remember talking to a therapist who told me that when people have sex next to baby cribs the child wether female or male can’t pick up the difference of what sounds of pleasure an distress are.
    With respect and growth
    Rugby

  41. I appreciate Rollo’s honesty given this info could also jeopardise his blog readership numbers in the short term given a few of the commentators in prior posts I fear seem to come across as Purple Pill wannabe alphas who still pedestalise female approval via getting laid as a measure of their self worth to a large extent rather than using Game and enjoying sex with women as just another of life’s many experiences.

    The Herbivore and MGTOW phenomena will both continue to grow as Red Pill awareness increases, perhaps restoring some balance in the SMP regardless of whether most men realise that the juice just ain’t worth the squeeze (or out of sheer necessity given the 80-20 Pareto rule) causing/forcing these men to focus on improving their own lives free from gynocentric approval including comparing ‘notch counts’ or the lack of thereof with other men. The incessant looks-status-money rat race in order to win this female approval is going to end for these two groups of men.

    I hope we see some future posts analysing in detail how women are aroused by male on male violence and the harem phenomenon (the way nature intended men and women to mate) instead of fairy tales about men and women complementing each other in a long term monogamic relationship (implied although not explicitly stated by Rollo).

    Feminism and divorce laws didn’t force the poor innocent darlings to divorce rape their husbands – they chose to pull the trigger voluntarily in a well deliberated manner in accordance to their biological predispositions. The true nature of women can be seen by going to an urban ghetto if anyone thinks there is anything naturally caring about them. At times more insights can be gathered this way than studying even the animal kingdom and primate behaviour.

    My bet is that a neo-Ghetto culture is the future of the Western middle-class. The rich will probably continue to marry in a traditional manner as they are the only ones who can afford the divorce costs these days. And I am saying all this despite not being on the ‘civilsation is going to collapse’ doomsday bandwagon. I can’t wait to read how those people feel about the future 🙂

  42. Middle class family suicide (red) son (blue) farther alpha vs beta son vs farther
    Rebel Without a Cause – Stand Up For Me! http://fw.to/E49hkyJ
    @theredbarron
    Makes me think of black knighting
    “I fear seem to come across as Purple Pill wannabe alphas who still pedestalise female approval via getting laid as a measure of their self worth to a large extent rather than using Game and enjoying sex with women as just another of life’s many experiences.”

  43. @ Stingray

    “For me personally, and I read other women say the same, the Game is better now. It’s more fun. The worry and doubt about who I should be and what I should be doing are gone. Open pride in my husband has lead to far more fun and excitement in our relationship.”

    This is a fascinating post. Surely, if you’ve read these comments sections, you’ve gotten a sense of what a terrible burden women’s inhuman expectations are for men and what an unfolding tragedy it is producing in the west over the last 40 years. Yet given all that, your only impression of this is that the red pill is “fun.” Hideous and monstrous.

    Why wouldn’t you look at all this and think to yourself “oh wow, men are actually human beings! Silly me.” But even now this doesn’t occur to you. We’re all supposed to go on performing and jumping through your flaming hoops in order to appeal to your pathetic daddy issues. How depressing.

  44. As is the usual, good piece. Wish every man here would understand that women have control cuz we offer it up like a cow to her calf.

    Be the bull, fuck em when their willing, ignore the bitches the rest of the time.

  45. I’m teaching the fm how to bond. What I continually tell her is, “It is nothing like what you were taught in girl’s school.’

    Here is what works: When she wants to see you with another woman she will bond. Make her play dread game on herself.

    And how do I do that little trick? I continually remind her that she feels better when she is bonded. At peace.

    Easy? Hell no. It goes against all her internal instincts. None the less I am of the opinion that given time and intent on her part it can be done.

    And my tool for goading her? “You are just a fuckbuddy until you can stay bonded all the time. Her response. “Fuckbuddy is SO demeaning.” So I tell her, “Not staying bonded it is your choice, not mine. You make a different choice you will get different results. If you want to be more than a fuckbuddy you will have to stay bonded – continuously. You break the bond and your situation will instantly revert.”

  46. “Men will always be the risk takers in all aspects of life.”

    As risk natural takers, we ought to be natural risk managers too.

    I’m seeing a divorce coming down the pipeline, so for the time being I’m pushing my income into an offshore and taking out a lawsuit insurance. When I’m set up, I’ll pull the trigger ON MY TERMS.

  47. not to go too far off topic, but it’s come up so….
    This constant lament by the WASP men here about foreigners is the ultimate beta tell. Get it through your heads, it is not foreigners, or blacks or anyone else who has lead western culture to this point- it is the the very nature of the WASP culture that always held the weakness within itself, the seeds of its own destruction- namely the pedestalization of its women. Even now, with female nature, hypergamy and the FI in full view, you continue to pedestalize your women by blaming their behavior, and the cultures downfall on everyone other than them. And yourselves.
    In the face of hypergamy and female misbehavior, the answer continues to be “we can’t expect any better from them” ” its the jews/blacks/indians/latinos fault” blah blah blah… This is your inherent pedestalizing revealing itself, even now, even post blue pill. The problem is female hypergamy, the problem is how men react to it. AWALT, everywhere in the world. The issue is how the men in a given culture react to it. In the west mens reaction have been the same over and over again- give them everything they ask for, and more.
    I’ll say it again, the weakness of western culture was there from within all along. It was this weakness, of course, that also made the culture so successful, and in my opinion, beautiful. Western men have accomplished so much in science, engineering etc because it worshipped its women and wanted to give them everything- the world, the moon and the stars. But that same deference to it’s women, the pedestalisation, has always been its weakness as well. You can continue to fool yourselves and reveal your BP mentality by blaming foreigners and minorities and everything else under the sun, but it isn’t Mexican women, or Indian women, bringing the FI and feminism to America- it’s American women doing their best- with the help of it’s weak men- to export feminism to every culture it encounters in the world. It is western cultures trying to sell the rest of the world on its open hypergamy and feminism.
    Sad to see so many commentators I have so much respect for reveling in their BP thinking. Stop deflecting the blame for your womens behaviors on foreigners, and when you stop that, then stop blaming women and look in the mirror- right there you will see the weakness, the lack of masculinity, that was always at the core of your culture, and the true cause of your shattered families, your openly hypergamous women, and their entitlement. You said “yes honey” to every demand placed on you by your women, and you now have the audacity to try and blame foreigners for the Pandoras box you have opened?

  48. TheRedBaron
    April 15th, 2015 at 12:37 am

    Good analysis on where the culture is heading. And your points about male violence and female harems also excellent.

  49. @Hobbes

    Thank you for that. My intended message, but expressed in a much fuller, richer, and more eloquent manner. When I spoke to Glenn earlier about the “FI in America”, I was not ignoring the innate hypergamy in women the world over, but rather addressing (poorly, apparently) that which you so ably address about the utter lack of accountability in many RP-aware American men for their BP-drenched blaming of everyone but themselves for the wretched state of affairs we are forced to deal with.

    Wish YOU were better, gentlemen.

  50. This lack of reciprocity took me by surprise too and left me wondering what the deal was. I had always done everything I could for the team – it was me and her against the world. It was a shock to find when I needed to draw some of the savings out of the piggy bank that I didn’t have a key.

    In retrospect it was stupid to assume she ever had my back. I would never assume my kids would help me, so why would I expect anything of my wife? Secondary proof, if it were needed, that women are kids in adult bodies.

  51. Ok Rollo… since you seem hell-bent on dissecting my every instruction to girls and women, compare me to SSM (yuck!), and seem to say I’m trying to hoodwink men into believing they can be weak and still be desired, I guess I must endeavor to comment, again.

    Men and children are totally different, your model of the flow of love and care from MEN-> WOMEN -> CHILDREN is correct at the most fundamental level and definition of “needs.” Women need men, it would be very difficult for society to comeback from, or even survive at all, if there was a sudden disappearance of every man from our planet. Every man gone. I just couldn’t imagine the chaos that would ensue. Women need men.

    Men do not need women. They might not be as happy (although, some definitely would lol), but they would no doubt, survive, quite well too. Probably would make some girl-robots for company (and sex?).

    If the reverse were to happen and suddenly, all the women (and children for their own sake) were vanished from the earth, the men would be fine. [internal dialogue: LOL gosh I sound so sexist! haha]

    So when women “care” for children, versus their “caring” for their husbands, there is a real, fundamental difference in that definition of “care.” When women meet the “needs” of their children (ie. making them food, taking care of them, meeting their emotional needs, etc.) it is different from when she meets the needs of her husband, because the children DEPEND upon her to meet their needs. If a man is DEPENDING on her, because of his expectations (this post is a good one), then yes, he lowers himself to the same level as the children in “needing” her care/devotion/love/need-meeting ability.

    There. Done. Wrap-up. See you later!

    With my husband, I’ve actually seen this happen and play out. Dream killers chapter…

  52. … since we got married so young, I hands down am a culprit of the “Dream Killers” chapter in book two. And as a result, I’ve been there to see him build up his career. There was a time when he was rejected, and the rejection (I really think) was crushing… it even came the evening before his birthday, which to me, added to the whole horribleness of it.

    Since he told me about the rejection (and it was a huge built up hope for him that would have drastically changed our lives for a few months as he went into a 7 month long training). So since he told me about it on the phone before coming home, I mentally prepared myself to receive him in his rejection. But the way he took it, surprised me… its not like he was happy or anything, but he really didn’t show much emotion at all about it. Still, if I had been unsympathetic/empathetic, you can bet he would have been pissed at my lack of understanding what a huge let down this was (and it was, it was so horrible, I knew how much he was counting on that career move, so I knew it must’ve been painful, even if he didn’t show it to me).

  53. Divided Line,

    You misunderstood my post. My marriage is fun. More fun now than it ever was now that I understand my nature and can work to combat it’s worst aspects and nurture the best aspects.

    I’m well aware of what men are and I’m sorry that my post was not more clear.

  54. @Excalibur
    I enjoyed that post from the Onion. It’s funny – it is obviously satire, criticizing women for marrying men and not looking at who they actually are, but rather what women idealize in their minds. The message is “women, look at who the man IS, not what you imagine he should be.”

    Yet, to me, the hilarity of the article is the solipsism of the woman narrating. She drones on and on about what she wants, and how her husband isn’t it. But never does she take a moment to introspect about what HE may want, and whether SHE is that. That, to me, is the ultimate irony, and the connection to Rollo’s post. This woman believes that if only the man would better represent her ideal, her marriage would be happier because SHE would be happier. But it matters not at all whether he would be happier, nor does she care to change her own behavior for him.

  55. @ Michael Davis,

    There is absolutely value in teaching our daughters these truths. To let them know from day one that their complementary instincts are a good thing. That being supportive and submissive are not horrible and life threatening, or oppressive. But rather, the opposite. And that they will find their confidence and femininity in these things.

    Here are some suggestions for teaching them here and and here.

    The very best way to teach them is to show them by example now. Little girls adore helping their father. This is where they learn to do the same for their future husband.

  56. Strangely enough, one conclusion is never drawn, going even beyond regular RP: If it is like that (which is proven here and on other sites time and time again) : Why not stop giving hundreds of fucks about “love”? So females don’t reciprocate what love should be, as soon as they are not forced to anymore (which they always were in healthy societies). The simple consequence is to not love them anymore, but go through all the motions to extract all the hypergamous rewards – and the biggest irony of all is this: As soon as you have this mindset…everything is given up by females FOR FREE. Just having this one mindset really internalized gives you all the power you need – triggering a cascade of even greater rewards, compliance, sex, etc. It’s just and rewarding at the same time.

  57. “Everyone says two parents are better, but with Dad and Mom both working are there even two parents?”

    Well, the whole point of two parents imo is that one can work and the other can raise the kids and do things that make it possible to survive on one income (making food from scratch, couponing, repairing clothes rather than buying new ones, drive the working parent to work when they need the car to make it possible to buy one car at a time, etc. etc.).

    With both parents working, I would say there are two part-time parents, which only adds up to one parent (if that).

  58. “Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand and accept this never expect empathy from women to begin with. For that man, either a woman meets his criteria for his investment or he drops her for a better prospect.”

    Yes, this is reality. Now, the question is – what to do with women given this reality. What should be the role of women in our lives, given this reality? WE – men are expected to provide, protect, tame our instincts and fuck the same woman, even die for her when necessary. Do we still want to do this, given this reality?

    If beta blue pillers have to perform this slave role for women, they simply HAVE to believe this reciprocity model, otherwise even many of those idealists are simply unable to do this. Therefore FI tries to sell this equalist model as early as possible and indoctrinates young boys with it. Mothers do their best to train their little boys to be the ovedient slaves of FI.

    When those boys finally wake up, they are usually already married, tamed, burdened with children and have no other option as to endlessy dance for their wives and try to satisfy her hypergamy. They use this knowledge to balance on a tiny rope between marriage rewarded by poor sex with their aging wife and the hell of divorce. I understand, they have no other option.

    But – If we were teached, right from the start, that woman is hyperagmic, solipsistic creature and we can not expect form her reciprocity and “love”, that relationship equity is non-existent, would we even consider marriage as an option?

    Rollo IS married and I am sure, he WAS married as a blue piller. He provides fantastic insight into the psychology of women and solid advice for married dudes.

    His work is exceptionl but the question for red pill single man is still unanswered and simply CANNOT be answered by anyboldy else. It is up to each man alone.

    So, my friends – given this reality (Rollo is 100 percent correct in this one), how we want to use women and what is the role of women in our life<

    In my life – women are for enjoyment and occasional company/help. Simple as that. Limited responsiblity, limited megring..my frame is everything. Many of them do no like it, so they are out. Those that like it, stay within it as long as they like it or as long as I like them. This is as good as it gets..for me.

  59. One can only love himself and the life that he tries to live. A woman can be loved for what she does to help facilitate that life. It all comes down to being one’s mental point of origin. Life is yours….only yours. It has many other actors in it who need to earn your affection for specific deeds if they want to stay in it. That is the only basis for normal human relationships, including those with women. As far as marriage, I think the only way a man does that is if he wants to have the family experience. However, just as with anything else, one cannot have any expectations. Can only live the best you can with the faith that life is a gift onto itself and should be experienced as such. As far as sexual monogamy, I don’t know how that can be expected from men or women. It happens way too rarely. Best to be realistic and not put too much pressure on yourself and others. Many marriages would be much happier if both parties felt less constrained by their roles.

  60. “greginaurora

    April 14th, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    Women are innately unhappy. Any active attempts to make them happy will only exacerbate the problem. A woman cannot be happy on her own. But let her attach herself to a Man whom she loves, and she’ll experience life through him and feel HIS happiness.”

    In other words; women live vicariously? Well, it would explain their love for talk and gossip.

  61. Regarding two parents: I think a big part of having two parents is the kid can grow up not wondering where they came from. Even if one or both of the kids parents is a piece of crap, at least the child knows their origin and isn’t wasting tones of time worrying about that. In these days of frivorce and parental alienation, kids are wrongly told one of the parents doesn’t love them. Even in cases where both parents work, at least both of those bases are covered. The kids know where they came from and the know the truth about who loves them and who doesn’t.

  62. Great comment. Every advanced technical society pretty much suffers from below replacement fertility, it crosses the racial and religious spectrum; Iran, China, Germany, Japan, Russia, etc.; it is due to cost benefit/liability of having many children. It wasn’t third-world immigrants who in their lust for cheap labor destroyed the jobs of breadwinner males. They didn’t unleash feminism, change no-fault divorce laws, or create a militant extortionist state. It is misplaced to rail against women or immigrants; not when White Knights in business suits are mostly the ones responsible.

  63. Sometimes the best part of a particular article reveals itself on the third reading:

    “In a Blue Pill paradigm men are conditioned to believe that Blue Pill goals are both attainable and worthwhile in the effort needed to achieve them.”

    The above explains both the success of the blue pill, and the difficulty of unplugging individually and collectively.

    The Red Pill offers nothing in comparison but the truth. And the truth is reality sucks. All of the benfits of having a woman in your life in the Blue Pill context are replaced as costs in the Red Pill reality. No guarantees are offered, no expectations are allowed, no weakness tolerated, no interest paid. Best part is you, the man, will improve and the women will get worse.

  64. Here’s a crazy thought. In the rest of nature, if food supplies become less abundant, the creatures that depend upon that food source, drop their replacement rate. As the food source grows, so too does the creatures birthrate.

    As far as I know, it is only humans who do the opposite. The population growth is centered among the poor and destitute, who live day to day and watch their children die before their eyes. Yet, when humans achieve first world conditions, the replacement rate drops below replacement values.

    The thirst for sex in men, to my mind, is above all else in the biological order. The poor would rather fuck, knowing they will probably have one more mouth to feed, then refrain. As we advance, we overcome that by our knowledge of reproductive biology, but the strongest desire is still to fuck. And we question why women have it so easy to control the mating game?

    It is our thirst for fucking. And probably the desire to feel from another woman, the unconditional love that our mothers’ gave us at one time.

  65. BP, I agree with you there. I feel like no women are really up to snuff anymore. I just spin plates and have fun. I still feel trapped in my mind thinking I cant find a woman (or women) who could be an intellectual equal though.

    Guess I’ll just hang out with my bird dog and bang random chicks. Its weird coming to the reality that there is nothing more in life than yourself, but thats the RP for ya. Ive come to terms with that and am happy with reality.

    Im just focused on my career now and planning for the day I start my own business. My only pain point in life now is working for someone else. I hate it. I have fire in the belly and cant wait to control my own destiny and financial freedom. Id be interested in seeing some RP info and advice on running your own business.

  66. @fatmanjudo

    I used to have an image of the manosphere much like “Lounds” sitting in the chair watching the slideshow from Rollo “The Red Dragon” Tomassi (among others):

    “This is a woman’s nature; do you see?
    This is hypergamy; do you see?
    This is a woman after she marries you; do you see?
    This is the Feminine Imperative; do you see?
    You have been a beta; do you see?”

    And, I’m like, “NOOoooo! Not me! Please, god… not me!” (and my “pill” changes from blue, to purple, then red, after having the shit scared out of me by truth)

    “Why have you been acting like a faggot, Mr. Lounds?”

    Harsh.
    This article is just another in a long line of shocking visions:

    “This is what you can realistically expect from a woman; do you see?”

    The realities of women in my life (with regards to marriage/children/divorce) prompts the vision of me riding a flaming wheelchair down a parking ramp, screaming in pain.

    No thanks.

  67. @Vulpine: “The realities of women in my life (with regards to marriage/children/divorce) prompts the vision of me riding a flaming wheelchair down a parking ramp, screaming in pain.”

    The funny thing about that is, you can choose not to sit in the wheelchair, and you can choose not to set yourself on fire. That’s the catch for all of us. We’re only screaming in pain if we choose to live by their rules, to take part in their culture.

    With the Red Pill, we have the stomach-churning awareness of watching other men volunteer to sit in that wheelchair, douse themselves in gasoline, and set themselves on fire. Sadly, when we point out to them what they’re doing, most reject the information. “That’s not what I’m doing at all.” “Not me, it’s different for me.” “This won’t hurt at all, only pussies feel pain.” “Why aren’t you manning up and doing it too!?”

  68. I do think abundance is the key dynamic. Children are assets in third world societies. You can put them to work and use them as a labor resource; so those people tend to have more. Children are liabilities in our society; they cost untold thousands of dollars so people have less.

    Our technical way of living has only lasted less than a century; average human life expectancy went from the 30’s to the 70’s; but our biology and drives are the same. Humans will either adapt to the changed conditions or revert to a less technical society.

  69. @greginaurora

    The manosphere is like mom catching you reaching for the stove and saying “HOT!”

    Some kids burn themselves anyway…

    I learned a long time ago that the best way to avoid an accident is to not be around when it happens. Praise be to the manosphere for illustrating women “accidents” in order for me to avoid them.

  70. @447,

    Yes love is a mental illness it is not something we should be striving for. It only really exists under a BP mindset anyway. Relationships are contracts and now we are getting the new set of books to understand our contracts and properly “negotiate”. Or at the very least to set proper expectations of women.

    The expectations have just been moved so low that it’s hardly worth the effort. Women just have to get even sluttier to keep the game going cause, really, they flushed all their other value down the toilet. And they’re proud of it.

  71. I can’t work out if you’re painting yourself into a corner, or the cracks in the facade are showing. But whichever, it’s getting worse. So what is your prescription for the foundation for a healthy love relationship? It’s to have Red Pill expectations of your partner’s behaviour. And what are those? “Hypergamy, women’s sexual and love opportunism and the potential of damning a man to a life of indentured servitude”. Plus the whole thing about how women don’t give a shit about men, or “Sympathy / Empathy flow downward from men to women and then to children. Men who understand and accept this never expect empathy from women to begin with” as you sugar-coat it.

    I’m pretty sure that any woman who went to a therapist and described her relationship with her husband in those terms would be told that she was living with an emotionally abusive, economically exploitative and untrustworthy bastard. Geese, gander, sauce. The Red Pill would, and that same therapist should (but wouldn’t because Feminine Imperative), say, once we remove the polysyllabic sugar-coating, that women are abusive, exploitative and can only be kept in check, but never entirely trusted.

    It is entirely impossible to have a healthy relationship of any kind with someone like that. It is utterly unhealthy to adjust one’s expectations to make a relationship with someone like that even thinkable. So, sorry, but this post is a fail.

    I think of it like this: women have their own plans, in which you are a resource, not a beneficiary. The trick is to work out what those plans are and what she expects you to provide, and a) if her plans have anything in common with yours, b) you can live with the differences, and c) if the screwing you’re getting is worth the screwing you’re getting. Some men learn that in time, others don’t and get trapped, and others learn it after too much experience and stay out of relationships. (Before the whole world tells me that women dissemble, I have to say that’s not been my experience. I found they couldn’t wait to talk about their plans, and that I could read their characters on their faces and body language rather faster than they could tell me their names. YMMV, however.)

    As for the empathy, sympathy and all-round caring? I’ve always thought those were rather over-rated. I don’t care if she feels my pain or not: what I care about is if she does something about it. Same thing for my supervisor, and definitely for any medical person treating me. I need her to behave like a decent human being when I’m injured or sick, despite whatever irritated, scared or other thoughts are going on in her head because (e.g.) I put my back out doing deadlifts.

    She can’t fix my feelings. No-one can. If that’s your need (as it was mine until the damn things dissolved somewhere around Step Nine) then she can’t meet it. Nor can anyone else. As a result, all human contact will seem a little shallow and contractual. But that’s what most human contact is.

    Surely, what the last forty years have taught us is that a lot of people should stay away from marriage and live-in relationships. The divorce bachelorette stats tell us that about a third of the women in post-modern Capitalist economies don’t want to get married and can get jobs that pay them enough so they don’t need to. (They may need to have a failed starter marriage to realise it first, though). Same for the men, especially those brought up with emotionally- or physically-absent fathers. And let’s not go into the proportion of women with major dysfunctions, DSM-V personality disorders and single-parent home backgrounds that have left them without any role-models for resilient relationships.

    The relationships that work are between partners who know each other’s expectations and have robust enough appetites and constitutions to meet them. These people are usually Sixes at best: they are the people whom Somerset Maugham described in his “mutton hash and turnip tops” comment.

    So a man should ask himself. Is he smart or good-looking? Then stay away from marriage, live-in relationships and children. If he’s a regular semi-plain Joe with good health, robust appetites and the ability to hold down a bullshit job, I say go for it. (But if you’re overweight, dumb, violent, unemployable or otherwise frakked-up, do us all a favour and get yourself neutered.) And if you don’t like the idea of having someone who can get in your face at any time, about any random crap she dreams up, for as long as she likes, then don’t get married, and surely don’t have children. That’s why I’ve been a bachelor boy all my life.

    We’re not really disagreeing. We’re just serving it up differently.

  72. So, after all that, it sounds like you have a pretty solid grasp of what you can expect from women in a Red Pill context and how to apply that to your life.

  73. @ Diplomat – Not doing politics here, suffice it to say your response to me mostly has nothing to do with what I said.

  74. Enter the dojo that is TRM, and let sensei Rollo give you all the knowledge to develop the tools you will need to deal with Females and the Fi.
    This blog has allowed me to join the dots like no other, and given me insights into the reality of intersexual relationships that I have not seen anywhere else.
    The quality of the essays is first rate.

    “So morpheous you’re telling me not to read PUA blogs ?”
    “No nemo I’m telling you that if you read re-read and internalise the TRM scriptures, that you won’t have to”.

    Thank you sensei, for you have set me free!

  75. @Seven Dials
    That was one hell of a good read.
    @Rollo tommasi
    Damn it I woke up this morning and smiled because I wasn’t happy I just understood. Not seening in colors or bianary just dots from your work.

  76. So again, given the proposition:
    “You will never get out what you put in”
    The question remains: “Will you do it?”

    My own answer is, yes I did, and I got something out of it, something good for me, and I don’t worry about the balance sheet so much anymore.

    But I also have thought through the worst-case bug-out scenario. Say, an Eat Pray Love Epiphany. A mini-stroke, illness or other organic disorder causing a 180 personality change. Saying the wrong thing at the wrong time at the wrong dinner party.

    Because it always can. Whether you’ve done something wrong, or you’ve done nothing wrong, it can still happen. One hopes it never will, but have a plan ready if it does.

    That’s the lesson stories like Glenn’s and M3’s have taught me.

    It’s all an adventure, adventures are risks, life is a trigger warning. It could be a great day at the beach, or turn into a fall off a mountain, or end up with a gun to the head. Encounter, adapt, overcome. Or die trying.

  77. @Excalibur – That Onion article though….yikes!!!

    “Unless, maybe, you’re willing to let me project onto you a sense of determination to work things out.”

    Future cat breeder!

  78. There’s a difference between accepting risk and being foolhardy.

    All I’m getting is that it’s shit, women have changed and we should adapt to their whims and simply ‘go along to get along’.

    The Red Pill in a nutshell:
    Women want alphas – become a top tier man.
    Women want promiscuous sex – plate them.
    Women are easily bored – become a clown.
    When they’re ready to settle – grit your teeth and accept the risks.
    Sex dries up – work on your frame.
    They lose interest – constantly perform, never ‘rest’.
    Lose your children, assets and the better part of your productive life – stiff shit, don’t let it get to you.
    Tired of the shit and don’t want to play – tough titties your a loser and need to up your game.

    If I didn’t know any better I’d think the Red Pill is feminism for men, even though women are shit you still have to perform under the new agenda.

    I’m open to economics, anthropology, biology, sociology and psychology but I’m also open to pragmatic real world scenarios.

    How about financial dread?

    For all the millions of words spewed in the manosphere there is deafening silence about how men should mitigate financial risk. As marriage age increases men are more often than not entering marriage post 30 with significant assets in their name.

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes, I’ve seen married women’s heads literally explode after they’ve been kicked out of their homes when they discovered the husband’s house was in his parent’s name. I’ve seen them grovelling like dogs when they found out the financial payout wasn’t coming.

    There’s risk and then there’s RISK.

  79. “Tired of the shit and don’t want to play . . .”

    – find some ground, both physical and metaphorical, that looks like it’s worth standing on to you and make it your own.

  80. @Johnnycomelately
    This is the topic I’ve been contemplating lately. Game, dread and frame may mitigate risk and reduce the probability of a divorce. However, when a woman has made the decision to divorce, the man is at the whims of a cruel and vindictive court system.
    The onus is on men to take the risk in our society but what is the downside and what is the upside? I have worked in dangerous workplaces, faced down prisoners and drug addicts and yet none of that frightens me as much as the prospect of going through a divorce.
    Whatever happens, I am not willing to grit my teeth and accept catastrophic risk with little upside. Each man has to make his own decision, but there is a middle ground. That middle ground has to be created and managed prudently through legal and financial planning.
    Here are some practical solutions I’ve discovered:
    1) Do not share your DNA. Get a surrogate and have your own children prior to marriage. Do not let your future wife adopt the children.
    2) Follow Rollo’s SMV chart and accumulate the majority of your assets prior to marriage.
    3) Prenuptial agreement.
    4) Place assets in a trust, perhaps in the names of your children or a trusted family member.
    5) Expatriate.
    6) Marry a foreign woman from a non-western culture.
    7) Cohabitate in a state without common law marriage. This excludes almost all provinces in Canada…eh?:)
    8) Singapore has no common law marriage and is in close proximity to all of the Asian countries we know and love.

  81. @Johnycomelately
    That was a hell of a good post to think about. Thanks for reminding me an how ignorant I am.

  82. @ Johncomelatly: “There’s a difference between accepting risk and being foolhardy.

    All I’m getting is that it’s shit, women have changed and we should adapt to their whims and simply ‘go along to get along’.

    The Red Pill in a nutshell:
    Women want alphas – become a top tier man.
    Women want promiscuous sex – plate them.
    Women are easily bored – become a clown.
    When they’re ready to settle – grit your teeth and accept the risks.
    Sex dries up – work on your frame.
    They lose interest – constantly perform, never ‘rest’.
    Lose your children, assets and the better part of your productive life – stiff shit, don’t let it get to you.
    Tired of the shit and don’t want to play – tough titties your a loser and need to up your game.

    If I didn’t know any better I’d think the Red Pill is feminism for men, even though women are shit you still have to perform under the new agenda.”
    _________________________________________________
    I agree that most PUAs (at least in EU) and all purple pillers push this.
    This is the core of the “better-ebta”-idea: Constructing a “stud on the leash”, who shows masculine traits exclusivly in sexual situations, but remains a maalable/controlled farm animal in every other respect.

    The critical difference is this *one* small adjustment:

    Females want alphas – become what they consider one. (Choice of words is deliberate here)
    Women want and need many other things – FUCK THAT, dispose them and find new female.
    Leave them where you (and how) found them.

    Muscles, speed etc. makes you beat other men – (learned) attractivness and social savyness makes you beat women.

  83. JCL – “If I didn’t know any better I’d think the Red Pill is feminism for men, even though women are shit you still have to perform under the new agenda.”

    See… This is the subtle distinction where I think most of us get it drastically wrong. There is a huge chasm between performing for a woman and performing for yourself. Hell, I’m still guilty of the former at times still, but I at least recognize it now and am doing a better job of putting myself at the center of the frame rather than a woman. A woman’s love, attention, loyalty (such as it exists), empathy, sympathy, etc. are all *byproducts* of a man who unapologetically takes care of himself, his needs, his desires first. Here’s what I’m getting at… Flip the script on each of these:

    “Women want alphas – become a top tier man.” — Become a top tier man for YOURSELF and only for YOURSELF. Women’s attention, loyalty, etc. will be the byproduct of you putting yourself at the center of the frame.

    “Women want promiscuous sex – plate them.” — I’m married and was as blue pill as they come before discovering these hallowed halls two years ago. So, this one is modified for the married set. Bottom line: Sex with wife sucked for years. Rollo’s concept of dread game has literally saved my marriage, but again there’s a subtle and very important distinction. When I initially conceptualized dread game it was with my wife in the center of the frame (in other words “If I use dread on the wife, she’ll want to fuck me more”). The results were meh. However, when I put MYSELF in the center of the frame as in “If I were suddenly single tomorrow how quickly could I get laid?”, the results were dramatic. The difference is this: In the first scenario I was counting on my actions causing a change in someone else (the wife). In the second scenario, my actions caused a radical change in MYSELF and in my conceptualization of myself.

    The biggest boost in my confidence and red pill awareness was when I realized that as a 50 year old man, if my wife ever did decide to leave me, I could easily be fucking beautiful 20-something women literally within 24 hours. Just this past week, on a business trip and practicing a little game I tugged on a hot little #’s ponytail (thanks Heartiste!) that I’d been joking and flirting with at the bar and she turned to me, pressed her hot body up against me and whispered in my ear “You only get to do that if you’re fucking me from behind.” About as blatant a come on as I’ve ever heard. I didn’t oblige her because I take the vows seriously, but there is an incredible freedom knowing that I could be up to my ears in strange in no time if circumstances on the home front changed.

    Bottom line, that sort of reaction from women will inevitably make you more confident, more alpha, more red pill aware, etc. The BYPRODUCT is that MY behavior change has caused a dramatic change in the wife’s behavior. She now keeps herself in tip-top shape. She gives me top shelf rogering more regularly and especially when I leave for a business trip. She’s more pleasant, feminine, less demanding. And as far as the dread, I swear to you women have a sixth sense for this shit. I can’t tell you how many times I’ll get a text message from her asking where I am, what I’m doing, etc. within 30 seconds of me engaging in conversation or flirting with some cute little bartender.

    “Women are easily bored – become a clown.” Fuck that… Don’t be boring because life is short and YOU only get one crack at it. Why would YOU want to live a boring life? Grab life by the balls and squeeze as hard as you can. Strive for great things. Don’t be afraid of failure. Try to live as often as possible outside of your comfort zone. Be impulsive. Take risks. Ask yourself this question every morning: “If I died tomorrow, would I have any regrets?” The byproduct of an exciting “no shits given” life… Women will be fascinated by you and naturally drawn to you. They will want to travel in your slipstream. As blue pill as I was in my marriage (and believe me I was bad), this is the one area that I’ve always excelled at, and frankly I think, the one reason my wife stuck around through my blue pill years. I was a pussy in my marriage for years, but I’m damn exciting.

    “They lose interest – constantly perform, never ‘rest’.” – Again, constantly perform and never rest for YOURSELF… Because you take internal pleasure and satisfaction in YOUR achievements. Fuck what she thinks! Interesting story: I play guitar, and I’m pretty good. A friend and I play open mic nights occasionally at bars. In the blue pill days, my wife would always subtly criticize my playing or singing and would never come see me play when we’d do an open mic night. It drove me fucking crazy. I thought it was the most disrespectful, bullshit behavior imaginable. Really pissed me off and I just couldn’t understand it. Then I realized that it was having a dramatic effect on HOW I played… I was playing guitar to win her approval and satisfaction. I wanted the external validation and the neediness was obvious and a total put off.

    I finally started playing guitar for MYSELF. Dramatic difference. It allowed me to cut loose and play with way more soul and passion. The *byproduct* on the female audience was equally as noticeable. My soul and passion = multitudes of tingles from the female audience members now. Before, not so much because I was playing for that external validation out of a place of neediness. Terrible externally-directed frame. And guess who now comes to every one of my open mic nights and enthusiastically encourages me to break out the guitar? My previously completely unenthusiastic wife.

    “Lose your children, assets and the better part of your productive life – stiff shit, don’t let it get to you.” — Yep. Exactly right… Don’t let it get to you. Think of how you’d live passionately in that alternative reality. I read a great post somewhere from a married man (may have been here) who was contemplating what life would be like if he lost his big house, his assets, his wife and his kids. His answer: “I’d buy a truck and a silver AirStream camper and travel the U.S. the remainder of my days. Stop in interesting places… Live a minimalist life. Maybe wash dishes for a few weeks here or there or do some construction as I explored the area, climbed mountains, fished, fucked the local women… And then move on to the next adventure.” Man, that doesn’t sound so awful to me. It sounds like heaven.

    Men aren’t wired for domestic nesting behaviors anyway. That’s women’s shit. We’re genetically optimized for danger, excitement, exploration. It’s in our very nature. It was the cavemen who disappeared for days or weeks at a time to go slay wooly mammoths on grand adventures while women sat safely around the fire at camp clucking like chickens. Throw off the shackles of the suburban McMansion (even if it’s only mentally) and all of the worthless knickknacks and doodads that clutter up your life, which if you’re honest with yourself, are really only to keep your wife happy and in high cotton anyway. You don’t need any of that shit and the truth is you’d be happier on a grand walkabout or adventure like your caveman ancestors anyway.

    Women’s sexual interest is the BYPRODUCT of you living an amazing life for yourself.

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