One thing I really enjoy about doing the few interviews I’ve done is that they allow me to do a stream of consciousness dialog with another person. I like this because it’s very close to the internal dialoging I do when I’m writing notes or researching a topic. While I was talking with Christian McQueen last week the topic of respect came up and I riffed on this for a bit.
“Be with a woman that admires you… admiration creates a different kind of respect”
I’ve delved into the dynamic of respect in the past, but what I was getting at with this was the ways in which women and men differ in their views of respect. Towards the close of last weeks post I made mention of Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post on the womanly art of seduction. What I found interesting in her list of seductive qualities was that these aren’t really means of seduction, but rather mindsets women should adopt to maintain a healthy relationship.
As I mentioned in that post, women’s methods of seduction are a lost art, but those means lack real significance if there is no genuine desire for that man. Women can very easily seduce men today. So starved for intimate attention are the majority of men that they create the seductive narrative for themselves; all a woman need do is make it easy for him to believe.
On a woman’s part, seduction doesn’t require much. There was a time I did some investigation into the profiles of professional online escorts. I had followed some links Advocatus Diaboli had offered in a few of his posts about his dealing with escorts, and while there were the prerequisite “pros’ with pornstar bodies and manners to match, the majority of these women were semi-attractive “amateurs” you’d be surprised by if you saw them in casual clothes. These women tended to be in their 30s-40s but what was telling was how each gal sold herself to potential clients.
To the average frustrated husband or sexless mature man I have no doubt these women were like a tall glass of water in the desert. By my own standards they were average, but what I noticed was each woman’s profile offered some variation of “you’ve worked hard, isn’t it time you enjoyed the appreciation you deserve?”, “let me treat you the way you should be appreciated” or “you’ve earned a good time with a woman who knows how to please her man.”
For part-time semi-pro escorts I was impressed by how well they knew their demographic. My guess is more than a few were divorced, but found their ‘niche’ so to speak once they were set up with spousal support. Each of them sold themselves based on at least the feigned mindset which Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo proposed women (wives) adopt to seduce their men (husbands).
In that list the first of the two articles stood out the most:
Virtually all men crave a woman who admires him. A woman who will listen to him when he’s talking about something he finds interesting, or when he’s giving his opinion. They want a woman who will be interested and fascinated with what he says – yes, I said fascinated. It turns them on to be in the presence of a hot woman (his wife) who is also giving him her entire attention and the right kind of feedback that says, “You are such an interesting man! Omg I want you! Now!!!”
When was the last time you reacted to your husband like that? I know… us wives are ridiculously tired, over-achieving, too much to do, have kids hanging off our legs at any moment when we’re at home (or out… at the store trying to deal with a meltdown). I understand, I’m a wife and mother of two now. But guess what? Your husband craves this kind of thing, and if this need is met by you, he will move mountains to ensure your happiness.
Of these two, admiration is the most important. Feigned admiration is the stripper’s secret (as well as the semi-pro escort’s). To the man unused to genuine admiration (that is to say 80%+ of them) this becomes his worst thumbscrew and source of manipulation. Sexual ‘thirst’ is certainly a factor, but men inherently realize the sexual attraction value that a woman’s admiration represents for themselves.
Part of men’s conditioning is recognizing the effect that simple social proof to overt fame has on women. Smart men figure out how to leverage this to their advantage as a part of Game, but most are so starved of that admiration that even marginal displays from women are enough to convince him her intents are genuine.
Truth or Compliments
Private Man had an interesting post regarding his tweet on compliments from women:
Men love to be complimented yet so few women do it. #facepalm #dating
— The Private Man (@man_private) March 31, 2015
My response was thus:
“Compliments = IOIs (Indicators Of her Interest in the man). 80%+ of men are Betas, thus compliments are a rare. Can’t have Betas get the wrong ideas.”
Compliments are considered an expression of admiration for men, but largely supplication for women. In the past I’ve gone into detail about how compliments for women need to be sparse because, for the greater part of women, compliments have very little value to them. In an age of social media and ‘quick-hit ego boosts’ from her girlfriends and symps, compliments are common.
What’s scarce is valuable, so the rare compliment from a high-value Alpha is a solid reinforcer for a woman – from a Beta compliments are a liability; they are an overt expression of interest from a man she has very little interest in beyond his utility to her.
For that same reason, women giving compliments to men they have no genuine admiration for also becomes a liability – even if that liability is just implied to herself. Ergo, women rarely express admiration for a man they genuinely have no true admiration of – it’s too risky. This is why women must be taught (as in Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post) to be conscious of, and attentive to, delivering compliments to men they’ve committed to, but regard as Beta. Left to their natural impulses women simply avoid complimenting men they have no desire to be held accountable to.
Private Man asks:
What’s wrong with reinforcing a man’s confidence through a compliment? Women adore confident men. The compliment is the opposite of the shit test where a woman tests the mans adversity by artificially creating that adversity by herself.
Not to run him up the flagpole (I have a deep respect for PM), but Private Man answers his own question inadvertently. Women do adore confident men, but by definition a confident man wouldn’t need any reinforcement of that confidence. Once again, women want a man who ‘Just Gets It‘. Any (Alpha) man a woman has a genuine admiration of doesn’t need a confidence boost from her – in fact that boost, and the implied need of it, only raises Hypergamous doubt for her.
Just as with the differing concepts of love and communication, men tend to presume that their concept of admiration is the universal one. The aspects and considerations men base their admiration of other men on are not the same that women use for men. I outlined this a bit in Hysteria, but there is a uniquely female precondition of unqualified social proof women entertain for themselves as a component to their arousal that men (at least heterosexual ones) don’t have for other men.
In other words men who women are unfamiliar with are an unverified commodity to women with regard to arousal / attraction. As you can see in the videos I linked in Hysteria, this unfamiliarity with a man’s real social value (and associated SMV) are easily mimicked when they control the environment and situation. It’s this unfamiliarity and a want to believe in the possibility that a man may possess fame or even simple third-party social esteem that leads to an easy admiration for a man women have just met or are only casually familiar with.
Women’s imagination is one of the best tools in a man’s Game toolbox, but this is so because Hypergamous doubt is also Hypergamous prospect. The same Hypergamy that predisposes a woman to opportunistic sexual strategy also drives her imaginings about its potential fulfillment by unfamiliar men. It’s far easier for a woman to imagine she should admire a man she doesn’t know than for her to appreciate a man she’s already intimately familiar with anything close to that same admiration.
This is what men idealistically want to believe about admiration coming from their wives and long-time girlfriends – that it’s just as sincere as the expressions of admiration, the compliments and inspiration, she’s naturally disposed to give to men she’s unfamiliar with, even when that man was himself when they first met. Compliments and admiration are less believable, not to mention far less forthcoming, when a woman is aware of the person you “really” are in an LTR because hypergamous prospect turns to hypergamous doubt.
As I mention in Frame, the dominant frame you establish and enter into a relationship with sets the tone for that relationship. Sincere admiration and genuine desire are key components to setting that frame before you enter into an LTR or marriage. You will never experience a more sincere admiration from a woman than while you are single and uncommitted. Her imagination fills in the blanks for her perception of you because you represent the potential of fulfilling her sexual strategy (either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks). Once you are committed and a woman has had those blanks filled in by her familiarity with you, admiration and compliments (if any) become something women need to be taught and reminded are something they ought to maintain to keep men interested in them by necessity.
If there is no admiration expressed from a woman while you’re single, or you’ve got to fish for compliments, or you’ve got to plead your case to her that you are someone she should admire, never enter into any kind of commitment with her.
Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s next article of seduction was respect:
How many men crave respect? All of them. They want to be known as the leader of their house, they want their wives to defer to them for decisions – but they want their wives to genuinely do it out of the feeling of respect, not just half-heartedly ask their husbands what they think, but to let them know that they are expressly interested in their husband’s response because of who he is.
They want a woman who looks up to them – who doesn’t try to outshine them or put them down – but who greatly esteems them and their opinions on matters (this ties in directly with Admiration). They don’t want a wife who will constantly argue and bicker with them over decisions and details, or one who challenges them and their headship constantly.
Respect amongst men and respect amongst women are, again, two differing concepts. GWADT describes her impression of what she perceives men would want in terms of respect from their spouses, but this outline ignores the basic principles of the Desire Dynamic – respect is valueless if it’s an obligation, you cannot negotiate a genuine respect. Men understand this because respect between men is something that is earned, whereas constant social conditioning makes respect for women something to be expected.
Respect for a woman is a given and as such, like compliments, it becomes so cheap a commodity to women they have no concept that it means something entirely different amongst men. In fact, Blue Pill conditioned men are so socially insaturated in a default “respect” for women that it’s become an article of Beta Game among them. Properly trained White Knights make a competition of “out-respecting” one another with their declarations of respecting women. They believe it sets them apart from “other guys” who don’t respect women and thus make them uniquely in touch and identifying with what they’ve been taught women want.
The next time you see some self-evincing meme declaring “a real gentleman does X for a woman” posted on Facebook by one of your Blue Pill friends you’ll understand how valueless the term respect really is to women. I hit on this in my post Respect:
So this is my point, women don’t respect men, or rather, they don’t respect the masculine – and most certainly don’t have a default respect for it. They’re taught to be adversarial, not cooperative. Women are taught to relinquish respect, and then only begrudgingly when a man has proven his quality beyond the reach of most men. Masculinity is popularly ridiculed in western culture as it is, but to respect a man is to compete with him, to out-masculine him. Cooperation or even recognizing that the genders could be complimentary is viewed at best as antiquated, at worst, sublimation to the male imperative.
Women have very little incentive for learning to defer to a man with a default respect when respect for women is already a social entitlement – that is the frame of reference women have with respect. Even average fathers seldom experience an organic respect from their daughters unless they are taught (usually by example) to appreciate the qualities that make him respectable. Women in the workplace presume they’re being treated with a default professional respect, but any respect that’s afforded them generally begins with that default ‘Respect for Women’® dynamic that 80%+ of men already believe is their due.
When men express respect for other men it’s usually because they’ve in some way earned it or earned a respectable office. That’s not always the reality, but it is the general presumption that respectable men are “leaders of their house” (business, position, team or rank) and makers of the decisions others follow because they have earned it. Think about the men you genuinely respect. Why do you respect them? What have they done to merit your deference of respect to them?
The way a man considers these aspects differs from how a woman considers these aspects. Respectable Men are keenly aware of a respect offered to them due to obligation as opposed to a genuine, considerate and introspective respect. So when a woman who presumes she holds a default authority humbles herself, and magnanimously allows a man she’s told she should respect a degree of deference, that man understands it’s her obligation and not a genuine respect he’d experience from other men.
Indeed, men do want a woman who looks up to them, admires them and respects them, but too many men don’t recognize the motivators behind women expressing them. Many Beta men make a joke out of their wives being “the real boss” or how she “puts up with him.” They have no concept, much less any expectation, of an organic, uncoerced masculine admiration, respect or even a compliment, so it’s no surprise when they can’t discern between a real expression of sincerity and one motivated by manipulation or obligation.
Lastly, ladies, the best compliment you can give a man is with your body and consideration. Unexpected gestures, being an imaginative lover, staying in shape because you want to please a man, are the best expressions of genuine desire, admiration and respect. Nothing conveys real appreciation for a man better than the unsolicited desire you reserve for Alpha Fucks. You want him to know you admire and respect him? Initiate sex with him, often and with intensity.
A lot of western woman grow up in a single parent household( absent father). They cant value what they don’t have. So do they really respect a man. I doubt it !
“In the past I’ve gone into detail about how compliments for women need to be sparse because, for the greater part of women, compliments have very little value to them.” Compliments mean nothing, in fact, they are annoying if coming from the wrong man. “GWADT describes her impression of what she perceives men would want in terms of respect from their spouses, but this outline ignores the basic principles of the Desire Dynamic – respect is valueless if it’s an obligation, you cannot negotiate a genuine respect.” I know it may not seem like it… but I totally agree with… Read more »
[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]
“Lastly, ladies, the best compliment you can give a man is with your body and consideration. Unexpected gestures, being an imaginative lover, staying in shape because you want to please a man, are the best expressions of genuine desire, admiration and respect. Nothing conveys real appreciation for a man better than the unsolicited desire you reserve for Alpha Fucks. You want him to know you admire and respect him? Initiate sex with him, often and with intensity.” Rollo,, This is the universal definition of what a woman is and for. All women in this universe know that .no one need to teach.… Read more »
I can safely say that I’ve only received an out of the blue compliment from a woman that wasn’t a family member a total of… maybe twice in my adult life. Both from chicks who I outclassed severely in SMV. Ditto for respect and admiration in relationships; only in cases where I had really scraped low due to thirst was I ever with somebody that sort of kind of admired me and showed it a little. The BPD chick I plated for a bit for shit test practice was oddly enough the only chick I’ve ever dated that seemed genuinely… Read more »
Let’s see, it starts with her succubus single mother, who spent twenty years telling her what a prick her father was behind his back. Then, fast forward to an education system that drills into her head everyday that she is a victim, preyed upon by the evil patriarchy. Finish it off with a barrage of media, telling her that all her problems were brought on by men. By the time she is 25, she is beset with anger and rage. She believes that the most foolish thing she could ever do is to respect a man. And these are the… Read more »
One more thought!
Admiration / respect for betas
Arousal / sex for alphas.
Can someone explain the pic for me?
Good post. I quit looking for respect. Now I have it.
Cody lundin is a survival teacher and I respect him because he knows the burden of performance is his personality. Look up his books on Amazon he like Rollo just say things the way they are. Which is why in part he got fired from a reality show based in the outdoors for refusing to color code outdoor survival. It’s weird to have grown up with learning respect not just for myself but for other males who have decent lives with their lady friends.
“They want a woman who will be interested and fascinated with what he says”
This is most common among high intelligence men, they fail to recognize that although a woman will rarely enter a relationship with someone less intelligent than they are, to the average woman when a man starts talking about history/science/philosophy etc he basically sounds like Dustin Hoffman from Rainman: impressive but retarded and ultimately unattractive
I have another thought, but Dragonfly, you break my heart! I think striving for perfection is a disservice to yourself, you’re putting yourself under way too much pressure. The cunts can’t handle a momentary lapse in your game-then fuckin next them already! I have a new mantra, mabey it can help you too: learn, apply, improve, repeat. Since discovering “game” and updating & upgrading my wardrobe I’ve found it quite remarkable the amount of compliments I get, both from like work/gym aquintences, dates & such, and even perfect strangers. This latest post is causing me to wonder what potential opportunities… Read more »
@Sun Wukong Stupid monkey, you must learn a skill. If you can’t pull an As-You-Will-Cudgel from behind your ear and make it grow in the ultimate act of phallic prowess, my advice is some form of karaoke or ballroom/swing/salsa dancing, or, best of all, guitar. (Karaoke is a meh skill, unless you’re really, really good at it, in which case… well, I do have a guitar but it’s yet to prove necessary to play it.) That said, I’m in Dayton, OH now to consult for a couple months. So, probably my driest spell since those two summers I worked in… Read more »
Been thinking about Rollo’s writings lately. Then I stumbled onto this article. Synchronicity!
Actually, it should be called “Anna Karenina: The Red Pill & the Suicide Hamster.” So much reality in Tolstoy’s work!
If you get that admiration and respect from women, you’ll grow Alpha traits automatically while the lack of those is the fuel for betaisation. The influence will be the more powerful the more you love her, the deeper the connection is. After making some experience with that, I’ll immediately next any women where her view of mine will pull me down instead of pushing me up. It’s just too unhealthy. This is btw another nail in the coffin for any equalist fantasies. If there would be equal responsibilities for the relationship, it would be womens duty to keep that admiring… Read more »
@Aldous “to the average woman when a man starts talking about history/science/philosophy etc he basically sounds like Dustin Hoffman from Rainman: impressive but retarded and ultimately unattractive.”
I see an aspect of this in my relationships with women . When I’m speaking of theory per se, the eyes glaze over and the pussy dries up. However, when I apply that theory to a problem in their lives, the look of awe and admiration is unmistakable. Bonus points if theory is applied to solving or analyzing an interpersonal drama that is playing out within her job or social circle.
@ “The dilemma for women is how to apply admiration and arousal to a guy who uses words like : Dude. Bro. Bud. Awesome.”: Actually, the opposite is the case. Because there are four phases: 1) Longing for respect of women, because you are a good person/successful in/at life: Blue pill land, no respect given – at all. 2) Disconnecting form the female “respect”: Purple pill land – most men arrive there somehow without guidance. Some respect is occasionally given, some admiration is given sometimes. Most men can not understand the reasons, they are confused. 3) Giving a shit about… Read more »
@447 Because there are four phases: 1) Longing for respect of women, because you are a good person/successful in/at life: Blue pill land, no respect given – at all. 2) Disconnecting form the female “respect”: Purple pill land – most men arrive there somehow without guidance. Some respect is occasionally given, some admiration is given sometimes. Most men can not understand the reasons, they are confused. 3) Giving a shit about what females seem to “respect” and “admire”: Red stage getting closer. The jerk talking about “Dude!”, “Bro!” and “Bud!” has little to no problems getting at least the basic… Read more »
Adding to my comment above, I’d even state the famed “Natural” is just a man who got that admiration from women early as a child from family, mothers, sisters etc. and then build himself a flow of it.
I very much appreciate the contents of this site, the smv chart, explanations of the “epiphany phase”, sexual psychology et cetera but.. I just can’t understand what “Game” is. So in order to get women, one must be: -Physically attractive? Makes sense. -Confident, self respecting and pursue own life goals and hobbies? Makes sense. -Dominant towards female partners so they won’t have to think for themselves and coast thru life? How conveinent. But seriously, I can’t find any resource that fully explains what “Game” really is. Everyone here talks about it as if it’s some Jedi Mind Trick and you… Read more »
As a start read these
Additionally search “game” in the search bar for Rational Male for more.
Nice try, troll. Move along.
Wish you had more to offer than that.
I couldn’t care less about whether you think I’m a “troll”. Maybe you should quit name calling like a child and enlighten me?
@ phantom – unfortunately no one can be told what Game is, you have to learn, practice and internalize it for yourself… I never gave admiration & respect (from women) much thought till now. I never sort or needed admiration from women (except when I was married and expected a bit for my sacrifices) – it is something I only ever valued or accepted from other Men; as I instinctively knew that it carries 100x more weight than coming from a women. I play guitar, box, lift heavy and I work hard for my money. Few (if any) women can… Read more »
@stuttie I’ve been reading articles and comments of sites like this to gain bits of pieces of info about “Game”. Unfortunately that seems to be the only way to acquire a reasonable grip on the subject. One thing I want to tell is, Matrix quotes like “take the red pill” “no one can be told what it is” etc are not very helpful. If Game truly works, then I would support any endeavors to spread the relevant info to other men. But there does not seem to be a satisfactory explanation / step by step guide to “Game” that newer… Read more »
I apologize for errors in my writing.. English is not my native language.
Very interesting article. Although I suspect that the alpha/beta dichotomy plays a role in the diminishing of respect/admiration over time, I also suspect that hedonic adaptation plays a significant part. The man who is initially respected for his intelligence has his intelligence become expected (and perhaps even resented) over time. The man who is respected for his income/provisioning has that taken for granted (and entitled under the law). I totally agree with Rollo that men crave admiration from their women, and that admiration is seldom shown once time has set in. Rare is the person who can admire what they… Read more »
– Women admire the concept of success in a man, not the underlying philosophy or the actual minutiae. Girls love love love that I can say smart things or impress their brother on the field he studied and I have only read about, none of them give an actual fuck about by research, even those with a STEM background. They admire my body, but even the gym bunnies I prefer have a hard time understanding why I am so proud that my 2RM Deadlift is up 12,5 kg to last year while my bodyweight is the same. – Russian and… Read more »
@Joe Katzman April 8th, 2015 at 3:43 am A big high five Joe. Thank you for that link If you have ever read Anna Karenina and had a respect for Tolstoy, that essay you link to is pure red pill gold. “For this reason, romantic love feels like fate, and an ideology of amoral fatalism often accompanies it. Lovers live in a realm beyond good and evil. After all, good and evil depend on choice, and where fate governs, choice is out of the question. No matter how much pain the lovers cause, one cannot condemn them. Adultery becomes as… Read more »
@ phantom —- “I’ve been reading articles and comments of sites like this to gain bits of pieces of info about “Game”. Unfortunately that seems to be the only way to acquire a reasonable grip on the subject.” How about you read more than “bits” and invest some time before wanting a quick fix. Do what we all did here and read read read. Start at Rollo Year 1 and only then start asking questions. “One thing I want to tell is, Matrix quotes like “take the red pill” “no one can be told what it is” etc are not… Read more »
Holding frame is hard…
Just started seeing a girl again, after a four-year long dry spell. My past relationships were completely into a Beta frame, and now I get to put in practice all the mindset stuff I’m learning from here, and it is such an effort!
For example, I last met this girl last Sunday, with a quick text exchange yesterday, and I intend not to contact her until Friday to set up something… But I keep craving talking to her or messaging her. I guess that is what Rollo refers to men being “starved for intimate attention”.
@ Gordon —-
You need to ‘learn’ to a point where it isn’t an effort. “neo you mean i can dodge bullets”
4 year dry spell? Dr Hibbert – “Nurse…cancel my 4 o’clock”
If you wait till next Friday to ‘set up something’ she has already received 300 facebook cocks wanting the same thing….
You’re already fucked – NEXT
that should be “morpheus, you mean I can I dodge bullets” lol
I think admiration and respect are my ultimate desires in a woman. Nothing better than a beautiful woman all doe eyed and fawning over you. One of the best feelings in the world. When you’ve had it, you won’t settle for any less in a relationship.
I think its part of the reason I have flings and one night stands. They may be hot, but its hard to find ones that have that enduring level of true admiration and respect (not the kind that wears off the next morning).
@muddge Perhaps the image is an illustration of the state of being an Unfamiliar Man — vague and mysterious enough that a woman’s “hypergamous prospect” can fill in the details and imagine a high-SMV figure deserving of admiration, respect and compliments.
(…Would an illustration of the state of being a Familar Man be Mr. Bean sitting on the same park bench?)
Gordon, Holding frame is hard. Yes. …it is such an effort. Yes. You keep craving talking to her or messaging her. You have to fight that tendency to lean into her. Remember your old blue pill ways and do the opposite. You know this is necessary, you just have to fight it and pace yourself. Stop thinking so much and perform your game. Keep your frame. I had the same feelings last week after two individual separate vacations from my wife (and a hamstring injury for her requiring another week of restraint). I fought the feelings and this week all… Read more »
“– in fact that boost, and the implied need of it, only raises Hypergamous doubt for her.”
This is a revelation for me. It’s always annoyed me when a woman compliments me, or enthusiastically agrees with me. I’ve said, ‘I don’t need you to agree with me/approve of me’ or some similar dismissive response. My current long-term woman still catches herself doing this, and knows now to censor her remarks.
It always feels as though there’s an attempt to placate me, or pander to me somehow. In any event, it’s always been annoying.
Currently I don’t give a fuck about learning a new skill like that just so girls will be impressed. I wasn’t even at the bar to meet chicks; was actually reading on my tablet and grabbing a bite to eat when they sat down next to me and started the conversation. Not exactly the kind of situation where one breaks out the crooning or instrumental skills.
Besides, if I’m going to pick up an instrument again (I used to play 3), it’s gonna be for me.
I think I’ve had four relationships over time that were, for a time, highly valuable. (Second marriage was just a manipulated, deceitful, pregnancy-driven, hostage-taking, where I was given a week to either marry her or watch her abort.) Two of those relationships included, overtly, qualities Rollo refers to as admiration and respect: the first 15 years of my marriage, and the second with the highest social value woman (she is Hollywood royalty) I’ve known. In the second case, being blue pill, I was completely thrown off-balance by her consistent admiration and respect. Every other woman I went out with was… Read more »
I also appreciate the link to the Anna Karenina essay. Ironically, I hired a Vronsky (it’s a real family) once, who had been brought here by her network tv husband, who had stolen her from her husband in Moscow. You can probably guess what happened after that. I couldn’t, and it ended awkwardly.
The difference between Game Proponents and MGTOW:
Gamesters always seem to say “dance monkey, dance” in order to get laid. At least it’s different plates that they’re dancing for so it might be worth it.
MGTOWS are saying “dance monkey, dance” but only on their terms when they want to to get laid or for fun and profit. Seems sensible.
Then there’s us married guys. It always “dance monkey, dance” for ever diminishing returns. No win situtation.
I see a trend in your comments on this blog. Your post on your blog is congruent with this trend. You consistently present a very loving, caring and nurturing persona….so much so that to me it seems unrealistic.
I am curious. What is your motivation?
Each time I make a mistake in performance, I remind myself of the following quote:
“Only the mediocre are always at their best.”
– Jean Giraudoux
@phantom, tell me what you think is the best way men should go about attracting, arousing and relating to a woman they want to become intimate with.
There’s no wrong answer here, just tell me what you think (or know) works best.
Yeah, “admiration & respect” is a rare thing for any western males, anymore. By default, “dudes” and “bros” are to be shamed and mocked. (At least, that’s how we’re indoctrinated to behave.) Observe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G1JMYAOh6Y This is a marketing campaign? Uhm… although I can “see” the attempt at humor, it’s irresponsible, and alienating to the “target” audience. However, they aren’t marketing to “bros”, they’re actually marketing to single mid-twenty to early-thirty women. They even mock “getting jacked”! I mean, how is “getting swole” even remotely laughable? “Buy one, Bro one?” FFS… Shameless. Would we see a “Save the Barbies” campaign? A… Read more »
It’s interesting that showing respect is being discussed because I think it’s the rarest of things a western woman does to man these days. In my circle of friends there’s about 8 couples who hang out together. All of the other women trash their men in public. Out of all of them only my SO speaks nicely to her man (me). In private on girls nights out I hear it even gets worse. One lady even went so far as to say she was “holding out favors” until hubby bought her a new car. I find this interesting because in… Read more »
Great post Rollo
Even Alphas get very few compliments from women (which is why it took me so long to learn that I am one).
The essence of game is not to teach man how to “dance monkey dance to get laid”.
Game teaches man how to get the woman to dance for the man.
Those who do not respect themselves should expect the same from others.
@Rollo Tomassi I think the most important thing for attracting women is physical attractiveness. So even if a man has ugly facial characteristics, I would advise him to exercise, get fit and work on his body. Decent clothing would definitely help as well. Attitude wise, self-respect and not being a pushover. Being aggressive in bedroom would help as well, since female sexual desire seems to be narcissistic. I’m no expert on this subject so I don’t think there is much more I can add. Not that I think any of this advice would be worthwhile to pursue in the West.… Read more »
@phantom, that’s your Game. How effective it is may be debatable. How it jives with Red Pill awareness may be debatable too, but that is your Game.
Been perusing the Blog of GWADT.
She appears to one of the rare specimens worth pursuing, except she has kids.
As for the article, it corroborates my experience that women couldn’t care less about “respect” thrown in their direction. The only kind of “respect” they understand is a big dick which makes ’em shriek of joy.
I like to thing of Game more as the hunting meaning than the playing meaning. “Game” used to mean the prize of the hunting, and now means pure entertainment. Understand why and you will get closer to understanding Game.
@NBTM: It takes two to tango. In order to get my woman to “dance for me” I have to perform to the high standards of a 307 bullet point checklist.
Screw it up, and begin again. Not worth it as a married guy.
It’s not being a bro that earns you the disrespect. It’s being male that earns it. Particularly white males, even if you weren’t one to begin with:
Yes, actual headline.
Ragging on bros is just a way to keep males in general from gaining self respect. After all, if you head to the gym and start inspiring dread in the woman that shit’s being advertised to, you might risk being perceived as a bro. It’s all downhill from there. *gasp!*
hey bros dudes
learn how to talk like Rollo not C McQueen , the will be a good start for getting respect.
When out in mixed company, my ex-wife always complimented and praised me. The behavior was so contradictory with what happened at home where there was rarely a kind word, that it always puzzled me. After reading The Rational Male and understanding that men and women are not people with the same features just different fixtures, I figured it out. Compliments in public built her up in front of the other women. Like, look how will I did compared to you losers. They had nothing to do with me. I was at a bar with her best friend and the friend… Read more »
Makes me wonder if every female compliment has an ulterior motive designed to get them something.
Every interaction you have with another person on a daily basis, no matter how small, is likely to involve manipulation on the part of one person or the other. If you’re not doing the manipulation, you’re being manipulated.
Women are always in manipulation mode. Act accordingly.
“Every interaction you have with another person on a daily basis, no matter how small, is likely to involve manipulation on the part of one person or the other.”
Agreed that when we interact we each have our rational self interest at heart. But “every” interaction? That’s a bit much. How are you and I attempting to manipulate each other with this interaction?
See where my previous post asserted my position on manipulation in an attempt to convince you of it? See now how you reject it and assert your own opinion on the subject?
It is, of course, a small manipulation and might even serve to benefit the person being manipulated, but is an attempt at manipulation never the less.
Fair enough. The word “manipulation” implies something nefarious; almost like you are trying to cheat the other person out of something. I will say that a man to man conversation is often informational or entertaining rather than manipulative. Both may get something out of it, or not. A male to female conversation not so much.
@Atticus To me “manipulation” has become rather amoral. The general purpose of communication (covert, overt, male, female, etc.) is to put information across in the hopes that you can achieve some objective you are searching for. That’s manipulation. You could be saving the world or trying to ruin someone’s life, it’s still manipulation to your own ends either way. Manipulation is simply another tool to power. As such it is the result that should be judged moral or immoral, not the tools. A gun or a knife is amoral, but the result you bring with it can be moral or… Read more »
Dragonfly:“Compliments mean nothing, in fact, they are annoying if coming from the wrong man.”
Truly? I’ve always liked compliments. 🙂
I think that GWADT’s admiration and respect is necessary but not sufficient to love a man the way the man wants to be loved. It appears that GWADT and actually is a unicorn (I’m not being facetious) that loves her husband the way he would want her to.
@GWADT Compliments mean nothing, in fact, they are annoying if coming from the wrong man. This is absolutely true. Cute boy compliments? Giggles and grins. Dirty ragged homeless guy compliments? Ewww! Creepy! “Creep” is the new girl word for any time an unattractive guy does what she’d prefer an attractive guy do and is used for those situations. @sjfrellc Of course, that likely has as much to do with how he carries himself as a Man warranting that admiration as it does to do with her being a “unicorn”. She may simply be asking too much of her sisters paired… Read more »
I agree 100% Sun. Beyond admiration and respect she has for her Alpha husband then she goes on to show love in her actions.
April 8th, 2015 at 2:45 pm
And how did you treat your ex-wife at the same mixed social functions. Did you show dominance, prominence and never say a disparaging word about her, never embarrass her, and never intimate that your relationship is anything other than cast out of bronze and impregnable? Or did you hang back at the bar and talk shit about her?
I never said a bad word about her to anyone. Only a little commiserating with a few close male married friends and even that was late in a 20 year marriage. As to dominance, I was always in charge. I decided where we went when we left etc. Many nights I would tell the bartender “one more” to the groans of the attending females. Around 48-49 stopped acting like this due to my own midlife issues and very soon she was gone.
I forget when I saw it, but I remember Oprah or one of her clones doing a show about why men cheat, leave or divorce their spouses. The show basically revolved around how men don’t feel “appreciated” by their wives and thus go elsewhere to feel appreciated. Of course showing that appreciation took the form of women wanting to fuck them enthusiastically and when you make that sexual connection women go ape shit. If wives are required to fuck their husbands to make him “feel special” it’s all shame on the husband for making it about sex. He has the… Read more »
What’s funny is how given a chance to show that sex is not their only function in a relationship, they make it clear they can only retain their man through sex:
“You just classified yourself as a series of holes”
We had good sex life pretty up to the end. It was varied and enthusiastic. Then there was a precipitous decline. I vividly remember one Saturday morning after a thoroughly boring experience, telling her “I’m starting to get tired of you phoning it in, I’m going to work for the day.” She SCREAMED that all her friends are like this. I not so calmly retorted, I’m not married to your fucking friends.
Maybe she was watching Oprah that week.
@ManlyMan – “I have to perform to the high standards of a 307 bullet point checklist.” I understand. Been there, thought that. “Game” can seem overwhelming (307 bullet points), and sometimes cheesy or superficial. However, it is not. It is based in reality. Practicing “game” is simply a trade off. For me, it is trading unrealistic expectations and bad habits for realistic strategy and good habits. Guys who see game as a strategy rather than a performance standard are more comfortable with it. Considering game a “performance standard” could be self threatening and it shouldn’t be. Understanding the concepts of… Read more »
Good Atticus. I wasn’t accusing, but asking. I was very impressed recently by Ian Ironwood’s Chapter 10 in his book “The Ironwood Collection of Alpha Moves”. I reviewed the chapter again in preparation for last week’s opening party at our country club. (Not that I’m that inept, but I was going as designated driver and it gets maddening toward the drunken end with the natural alpha’s contrasted my higher Beta with a decent amount of Alpha). He gives prescriptive advice on how to make his wife look better to her co-workers and their partners. It’s the flip side of the… Read more »
@Not born this morning Considering game a “performance standard” could be self threatening and it shouldn’t be. Understanding the concepts of game is simply part of becoming aware of the realities involved with gender social dynamics. “Red Pill” awareness can be painful and the transition can take time due only to reluctance; to let go of established mental routines. I am also married (20 years) “Game” is worth the effort to me regardless of my situation. (That’s incredibly helpful) This comes to mind The Meditations By Marcus Aurelius Written 167 A.C.E. Translated by George Long Go to previous Table of… Read more »
Organic Valley – Organic Fuel “Save the bros”
Ha Ha HA!
Alpha in a bottle. Never.
Be indifferent when women respect you.
Be indifferent when women admire you.
Be indifferent to women when complimenting you.
Women love opportunistically.
Women admire/respect/compliment/ opportunistically as well.
my fellow men,
If you want respect, admiration and compliment, don’t obsess over it, find it among other men. Or go to your Mama. (I’m not a 35%sure of Mama either).
“Indifferent is the best aphrodisiac”
Master Rollo posted this on Married Red Pill but it really needs to go on the Red Pill Woman reddit- unless you guys think this analysis is too dangerous for the henhouse. They don’t have the seduction of men figured out as effectively or completely as this short piece. Is it possible there is not a paid escort in the bunch over there? Nah. Amazing perspective Rollo. Thanks again. This answered many questions I have been trying to figure out for a long time. We are struggling to figure out female attraction cues most of the time but in terms… Read more »
@Bluepillproffessor, please feel free to post a link on TRPW forum
Attention married women with children: You are never a “mommy” to your husband. You are a MILF. It’s as simple as that. As long as your husband isn’t a beta, if you are having marriage problems, most likely you’ve forgotten how to act like a MILF to your husband. Case in point: Some time back as I was at the door on the way out to work, the wife gave me one of those one-armed throw-away hugs. I whispered, “Rub my balls real quick before I leave.” She replied, “Why?!” with a confused, annoyed, “how-is-that-relevant” look on her face. Totally… Read more »
Do sex therapist provide admiration/respect therapy too?
I have found that women tend to compliment on my tie, or shoes, although some have said things like, “Are you in the military? You posture makes every women in this room take note.”
Now the second was quite obvious, but in general – as the man said, a woman’s compliment is an IOI – plain and simple…
OK here is the pill that is hard to swallow :
If a man feels he is not being adored/admired/respected/complimented/appreciated,
That is 4 clues for you,
YOU were her plan B.
It kills me. One wonders how do you find a woman worth keeping? I’ve bought The Rational Male and read it cover to cover. I’m thinking of buying Preventive Medicine. Thanks, as always, Rollo!
Marcus Aurelius. During our “bull sessions” my father sometimes referenced him. I never read his work. I will now.
In my humble (some will disagree) opinion. The answer depends on your definitions of “worth” and “keeping”. “Finding” her is contingent upon your definitions, it is possible that she doesn’t exist.
Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men they don’t respect.
Hey I hope this happens in the morning to you.
Here’s a link
“Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men they don’t respect.”
Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men who don’t TURN THEM ON.
I get the feelings that Dragonfly is trying to teach women (who married plan b) to put up and fuck and respect the beta plan b.
A woman who is with an alpha don’t need anyone to tell her how to respect and seduce him.
Lastly, ladies, the best compliment you can give a man is with your body and consideration. Unexpected gestures, being an imaginative lover, staying in shape because you want to please a man, are the best expressions of genuine desire, admiration and respect. Nothing conveys real appreciation for a man better than the unsolicited desire you reserve for Alpha Fucks. You want him to know you admire and respect him? Initiate sex with him, often and with intensity. Many married women, from my own experience, and what I gather from various conversations with married, do NOT fucking get this! I presume… Read more »
Everybody wants to be loved.
If they cannot be loved, they want to admired;
If they cannot find admiration, they want to be feared;
And if they cannot be feared, they are willing to be hated.
*seen by the actor
Game isn’t stereo instructions. I read Rollo’s book. Currently reading the second. He’s not telling you what game is, but he is telling you what the sexual dynamic is between men and women. He’s telling you how it is in the real world. With that knowledge you still have your own personality though. You take that knowledge and you make it work for you.
To all the minors and the innocents I suggest they read this comment,
Respect = I am the only one you fuck .
Admiration = you blow me dry all the time.
Appreciated=after I come, you’re OK with me falling asleep.
Forgiving =if I cheat on you.
Loyalty =you take me back after I cheated.
I’ve received quite a lot of compliments from women and men alike in my life. I just never really paid any attention to it because I was so inside of my head all the time and would feel embarrassed if anyone complimented me. What resonated the most with me from this post is the thing about women respecting you the most when you’re single and uncommitted. This is very easy to understand just by flirting with a girl that you don’t know that well. I’ve noticed very submissive behavior lately from girls I thought were unattainable before — and the… Read more »
@Softek I can relate to that as I write this. Had a women wanna bang me as a lifeguard in my blue pill phase and disn’t realize that till you wrote that. Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men they don’t respect. Merlin the magician is in love with his student Viviane the fairy who wishes to preserve this enchanted state they are in. There is no deception or malice involved in Viviane’s entrapment of Merlin in the beautiful tower. Their story has been retold in many ways since, the best… Read more »
“I get the feelings that Dragonfly is trying to teach women (who married plan b) to put up and fuck and respect the beta plan b.”
Yes, I thought that briefly. But no.
I really think Dragonfly is masquerading as a “unicorn”; but I do not know why.
Bravo Rollo. Everyone needs to (re)read the last 5 paragraphs.
There is much to be aware of. If you haven’t already, read The Game by Neil Strauss and take note of what happens to “Sweater” all the way through the end of the book including the aknowledgements. Strauss is an excellent writer and the book is hard to put down. Most people probably think much of it is crazy as shit and somewhat unbelievable. It is not. Fact is often stranger than fiction and much of it is absolutely hilarious.
regaining masculinity may start as techniques and practices, but you do not have masculinity until you can still live your life with your bettah attributes, and not give a shit if she loves you or not.
“love like you have never been hurt”
Just Saying, yes, women grock the outer. Their energy is inward, so it is the outer that grabs their attention. That is why a change in wardrobe can even make a difference in your crotch count with these stupid sluts.
Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men they don’t respect. https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzUIsdnldl_guIOww5IrRIxEk5vGfCoW9 In life, people tend to wait for good things to come to them. And by waiting, they miss out. Usually, what you wish for doesn’t fall in your lap; it falls somewhere nearby, and you have to recognize it, stand up, and put in the time and work it takes to get to it. This isn’t because the universe is cruel. It’s because the universe is smart. It has its own cat-string theory and knows we don’t appreciate things that… Read more »
“be with a woman that admires you” Easy, they all fit this initially, you just gotta dump em before they can’t keep up the facade.
On what page can we discuss parts of the Preventive Medicine book?
Over time a woman’s admiration turns into resentment. I’ve had girls who admired me suddenly start shit-testing and putting me down…only because I’m successful or popular in front of them.
I’m not sure what that is…fear of losing me so they try to destroy me?
@walawala From my experience (as a young man), the longer you can stay elusive to her, keep her guessing, stay mysterious, the longer her admiration will last, and the harder (but more pleasantly) she’ll try to crack your code. Once you’ve dished out all your coolness, they begin searching for additional facets through shit-testing. If you come up empty, they lose interest, increase the shit test intensity, because they don’t want to not be enthralled with you, they want it.. and they can’t stay in love (initially) without it. So, don’t give up all your diversity up front. Whenever possible,… Read more »
Helps keep things out of perfection
Idealism vs opportunitism
Show don’t tell
Never reveal to much about yourself
Hard work build a mystery about yourself.
Let her figure you out.
(That video always stuck with me growing up)
Women view narcissistic men as suitable partners:
lh “If you get that admiration and respect from women, you’ll grow Alpha traits automatically while the lack of those is the fuel for betaisation. The influence will be the more powerful the more you love her, the deeper the connection is. After making some experience with that, I’ll immediately next any women where her view of mine will pull me down instead of pushing me up. It’s just too unhealthy. Adding to my comment above, I’d even state the famed “Natural” is just a man who got that admiration from women early as a child from family, mothers, sisters… Read more »
I’m coming to the suspicion that women’s revulsion towards Beta male psychology, personality and behaviors is an evolved instinct. There is a female hindbrain, limbic sensitivity to Beta behavioral patterns. This leads me to believe that after a certain threshold of tolerance women’s perception of that Beta is set for her. After that threshold forced obligation to bolstering his confidence isn’t even an afterthought to a woman, thus compliments and admiration are an alien concept to her. So trying to convince women they ought to compliment more, respect more, admire more runs counter to what her hindbrain Hypergamy expects is… Read more »
walawala: “I’m not sure what that is…fear of losing me so they try to destroy me?”
Sometimes they self-sabotage simply to assert the only control they feel they have. I’ve even had it happen on first dates when a woman thinks I’m out of her league, or has too much attraction but is focused on her prior serial failures.
@phantom26d Definition of game: Confidence + Action = Game Have the confidence to go after the things you want; Have the self-esteem to believe you will achieve your goals; Visualize yourself succeeding in your goals; Have the dedication to master the skills/knowledge that will help you achieve your goals; Act. Achieve your goals. Then set new, higher ones. Often, this will apply to females, but if you really pay attention to what Rollo, CH, etc. are saying, you will see pussy is a by-product, not the goal. Power is the goal. Woman do not want to be the goal, they… Read more »
@Dragonfly A wife pretending to feel those things, may MAY actually start feeling them for real, but getting her to pretend them in the first place would be very hard. Won’t happen for two reasons. 1) In the scenario you’re describing, she is leading him to a more Alpha state. That’s just going to reinforce her view of him as a man that can’t lead and can’t be in charge. 2) Since he’s just following her lead, he’s going to stop where she stops. He won’t “Just Get It” and take over ever. As much as I hate to say… Read more »