Admiration & Respect

admiration

One thing I really enjoy about doing the few interviews I’ve done is that they allow me to do a stream of consciousness dialog with another person. I like this because it’s very close to the internal dialoging I do when I’m writing notes or researching a topic. While I was talking with Christian McQueen last week the topic of respect came up and I riffed on this for a bit.

“Be with a woman that admires you… admiration creates a different kind of respect”

I’ve delved into the dynamic of respect in the past, but what I was getting at with this was the ways in which women and men differ in their views of respect. Towards the close of last weeks post I made mention of Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post on the womanly art of seduction. What I found interesting in her list of seductive qualities was that these aren’t really means of seduction, but rather mindsets women should adopt to maintain a healthy relationship.

As I mentioned in that post, women’s methods of seduction are a lost art, but those means lack real significance if there is no genuine desire for that man. Women can very easily seduce men today. So starved for intimate attention are the majority of men that they create the seductive narrative for themselves; all a woman need do is make it easy for him to believe.

On a woman’s part, seduction doesn’t require much. There was a time I did some investigation into the profiles of professional online escorts. I had followed some links Advocatus Diaboli had offered in a few of his posts about his dealing with escorts, and while there were the prerequisite “pros’ with pornstar bodies and manners to match, the majority of these women were semi-attractive “amateurs” you’d be surprised by if you saw them in casual clothes. These women tended to be in their 30s-40s but what was telling was how each gal sold herself to potential clients.

To the average frustrated husband or sexless mature man I have no doubt these women were like a tall glass of water in the desert. By my own standards they were average, but what I noticed was each woman’s profile offered some variation of “you’ve worked hard, isn’t it time you enjoyed the appreciation you deserve?”, “let me treat you the way you should be appreciated” or “you’ve earned a good time with a woman who knows how to please her man.”

For part-time semi-pro escorts I was impressed by how well they knew their demographic. My guess is more than a few were divorced, but found their ‘niche’ so to speak once they were set up with spousal support. Each of them sold themselves based on at least the feigned mindset which Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo proposed women (wives) adopt to seduce their men (husbands).

In that list the first of the two articles stood out the most:

Admiration

Virtually all men crave a woman who admires him.  A woman who will listen to him when he’s talking about something he finds interesting, or when he’s giving his opinion.  They want a woman who will be interested and fascinated with what he says – yes, I said fascinated.  It turns them on to be in the presence of a hot woman (his wife) who is also giving him her entire attention and the right kind of feedback that says, “You are such an interesting man!  Omg I want you!  Now!!!”

When was the last time you reacted to your husband like that?  I know… us wives are ridiculously tired, over-achieving, too much to do, have kids hanging off our legs at any moment when we’re at home (or out… at the store trying to deal with a meltdown).  I understand, I’m a wife and mother of two now.  But guess what?  Your husband craves this kind of thing, and if this need is met by you, he will move mountains to ensure your happiness.

Of these two, admiration is the most important. Feigned admiration is the stripper’s secret (as well as the semi-pro escort’s). To the man unused to genuine admiration (that is to say 80%+ of them) this becomes his worst thumbscrew and source of manipulation. Sexual ‘thirst’ is certainly a factor, but men inherently realize the sexual attraction value that a woman’s admiration represents for themselves.

Part of men’s conditioning is recognizing the effect that simple social proof to overt fame has on women. Smart men figure out how to leverage this to their advantage as a part of Game, but most are so starved of that admiration that even marginal displays from women are enough to convince him her intents are genuine.

Truth or Compliments

Private Man had an interesting post regarding his tweet on compliments from women:

My response was thus:

“Compliments = IOIs (Indicators Of her Interest in the man). 80%+ of men are Betas, thus compliments are a rare. Can’t have Betas get the wrong ideas.”

Compliments are considered an expression of admiration for men, but largely supplication for women. In the past I’ve gone into detail about how compliments for women need to be sparse because, for the greater part of women, compliments have very little value to them. In an age of social media and ‘quick-hit ego boosts’ from her girlfriends and symps, compliments are common.

What’s scarce is valuable, so the rare compliment from a high-value Alpha is a solid reinforcer for a woman – from a Beta compliments are a liability; they are an overt expression of interest from a man she has very little interest in beyond his utility to her.

For that same reason, women giving compliments to men they have no genuine admiration for also becomes a liability – even if that liability is just implied to herself. Ergo, women rarely express admiration for a man they genuinely have no true admiration of – it’s too risky. This is why women must be taught (as in Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post) to be conscious of, and attentive to, delivering compliments to men they’ve committed to, but regard as Beta. Left to their natural impulses women simply avoid complimenting men they have no desire to be held accountable to.

Private Man asks:

What’s wrong with reinforcing a man’s confidence through a compliment? Women adore confident men. The compliment is the opposite of the shit test where a woman tests the mans adversity by artificially creating that adversity by herself.

Not to run him up the flagpole (I have a deep respect for PM), but Private Man answers his own question inadvertently. Women do adore confident men, but by definition a confident man wouldn’t need any reinforcement of that confidence. Once again, women want a man who ‘Just Gets It‘. Any (Alpha) man a woman has a genuine admiration of doesn’t need a confidence boost from her – in fact that boost, and the implied need of it, only raises Hypergamous doubt for her.

Just as with the differing concepts of love and communication, men tend to presume that their concept of admiration is the universal one. The aspects and considerations men base their admiration of other men on are not the same that women use for men. I outlined this a bit in Hysteria, but there is a uniquely female precondition of unqualified social proof women entertain for themselves as a component to their arousal that men (at least heterosexual ones) don’t have for other men.

In other words men who women are unfamiliar with are an unverified commodity to women with regard to arousal / attraction. As you can see in the videos I linked in Hysteria, this unfamiliarity with a man’s real social value (and associated SMV) are easily mimicked when they control the environment and situation. It’s this unfamiliarity and a want to believe in the possibility that a man may possess fame or even simple third-party social esteem that leads to an easy admiration for a man women have just met or are only casually familiar with.

Imaginings

Women’s imagination is one of the best tools in a man’s Game toolbox, but this is so because Hypergamous doubt is also Hypergamous prospect. The same Hypergamy that predisposes a woman to opportunistic sexual strategy also drives her imaginings about its potential fulfillment by unfamiliar men. It’s far easier for a woman to imagine she should admire a man she doesn’t know than for her to appreciate a man she’s already intimately familiar with anything close to that same admiration.

This is what men idealistically want to believe about admiration coming from their wives and long-time girlfriends – that it’s just as sincere as the expressions of admiration, the compliments and inspiration, she’s naturally disposed to give to men she’s unfamiliar with, even when that man was himself when they first met. Compliments and admiration are less believable, not to mention far less forthcoming, when a woman is aware of the person you “really” are in an LTR because hypergamous prospect turns to hypergamous doubt.

As I mention in Frame, the dominant frame you establish and enter into a relationship with sets the tone for that relationship. Sincere admiration and genuine desire are key components to setting that frame before you enter into an LTR or marriage.  You will never experience a more sincere admiration from a woman than while you are single and uncommitted. Her imagination fills in the blanks for her perception of you because you represent the potential of fulfilling her sexual strategy (either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks). Once you are committed and a woman has had those blanks filled in by her familiarity with you, admiration and compliments (if any) become something women need to be taught and reminded are something they ought to maintain to keep men interested in them by necessity.

If there is no admiration expressed from a woman while you’re single, or you’ve got to fish for compliments, or you’ve got to plead your case to her that you are someone she should admire, never enter into any kind of commitment with her.

Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s next article of seduction was respect:

Respect

How many men crave respect?  All of them.  They want to be known as the leader of their house, they want their wives to defer to them for decisions – but they want their wives to genuinely do it out of the feeling of respect, not just half-heartedly ask their husbands what they think, but to let them know that they are expressly interested in their husband’s response because of who he is.

They want a woman who looks up to them – who doesn’t try to outshine them or put them down – but who greatly esteems them and their opinions on matters (this ties in directly with Admiration).  They don’t want a wife who will constantly argue and bicker with them over decisions and details, or one who challenges them and their headship constantly.

Respect amongst men and respect amongst women are, again, two differing concepts. GWADT describes her impression of what she perceives men would want in terms of respect from their spouses, but this outline ignores the basic principles of the Desire Dynamic – respect is valueless if it’s an obligation, you cannot negotiate a genuine respect. Men understand this because respect between men is something that is earned, whereas constant social conditioning makes respect for women something to be expected.

Respect for a woman is a given and as such, like compliments, it becomes so cheap a commodity to women they have no concept that it means something entirely different amongst men. In fact, Blue Pill conditioned men are so socially insaturated in a default “respect” for women that it’s become an article of Beta Game among them. Properly trained White Knights make a competition of “out-respecting” one another with their declarations of respecting women. They believe it sets them apart from “other guys” who don’t respect women and thus make them uniquely in touch and identifying with what they’ve been taught women want.

The next time you see some self-evincing meme declaring “a real gentleman does X for a woman” posted on Facebook by one of your Blue Pill friends you’ll understand how valueless the term respect really is to women. I hit on this in my post Respect:

Masculine Respect

So this is my point, women don’t respect men, or rather, they don’t respect the masculine – and most certainly don’t have a default respect for it. They’re taught to be adversarial, not cooperative. Women are taught to relinquish respect, and then only begrudgingly when a man has proven his quality beyond the reach of most men. Masculinity is popularly ridiculed in western culture as it is, but to respect a man is to compete with him, to out-masculine him. Cooperation or even recognizing that the genders could be complimentary is viewed at best as antiquated, at worst, sublimation to the male imperative.

Women have very little incentive for learning to defer to a man with a default respect when respect for women is already a social entitlement – that is the frame of reference women have with respect. Even average fathers seldom experience an organic respect from their daughters unless they are taught (usually by example) to appreciate the qualities that make him respectable. Women in the workplace presume they’re being treated with a default professional respect, but any respect that’s afforded them generally begins with that default ‘Respect for Women’® dynamic that 80%+ of men already believe is their due.

When men express respect for other men it’s usually because they’ve in some way earned it or earned a respectable office. That’s not always the reality, but it is the general presumption that respectable men are “leaders of their house” (business, position, team or rank) and makers of the decisions others follow because they have earned it. Think about the men you genuinely respect. Why do you respect them? What have they done to merit your deference of respect to them?

The way a man considers these aspects differs from how a woman considers these aspects. Respectable Men are keenly aware of a respect offered to them due to obligation as opposed to a genuine, considerate and introspective respect. So when a woman who presumes she holds a default authority humbles herself, and magnanimously allows a man she’s told she should respect a degree of deference, that man understands it’s her obligation and not a genuine respect he’d experience from other men.

Indeed, men do want a woman who looks up to them, admires them and respects them, but too many men don’t recognize the motivators behind women expressing them. Many Beta men make a joke out of their wives being “the real boss” or how she “puts up with him.” They have no concept, much less any expectation, of an organic, uncoerced masculine admiration, respect or even a compliment, so it’s no surprise when they can’t discern between a real expression of sincerity and one motivated by manipulation or obligation.

Lastly, ladies, the best compliment you can give a man is with your body and consideration. Unexpected gestures, being an imaginative lover, staying in shape because you want to please a man, are the best expressions of genuine desire, admiration and respect. Nothing conveys real appreciation for a man better than the unsolicited desire you reserve for Alpha Fucks. You want him to know you admire and respect him? Initiate sex with him, often and with intensity.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Nevergiveout Youractualname
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“be with a woman that admires you” Easy, they all fit this initially, you just gotta dump em before they can’t keep up the facade.

cervantesscthree
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On what page can we discuss parts of the Preventive Medicine book?

walawala
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Over time a woman’s admiration turns into resentment. I’ve had girls who admired me suddenly start shit-testing and putting me down…only because I’m successful or popular in front of them.

I’m not sure what that is…fear of losing me so they try to destroy me?

TuffLuv
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@walawala From my experience (as a young man), the longer you can stay elusive to her, keep her guessing, stay mysterious, the longer her admiration will last, and the harder (but more pleasantly) she’ll try to crack your code. Once you’ve dished out all your coolness, they begin searching for additional facets through shit-testing. If you come up empty, they lose interest, increase the shit test intensity, because they don’t want to not be enthralled with you, they want it.. and they can’t stay in love (initially) without it. So, don’t give up all your diversity up front. Whenever possible,… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Tuffluv
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lgSLz5FeXUg
Helps keep things out of perfection
Idealism vs opportunitism
Show don’t tell
Perform
Never reveal to much about yourself
Hard work build a mystery about yourself.
Let her figure you out.
(That video always stuck with me growing up)

Dragonfly
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lh “If you get that admiration and respect from women, you’ll grow Alpha traits automatically while the lack of those is the fuel for betaisation. The influence will be the more powerful the more you love her, the deeper the connection is. After making some experience with that, I’ll immediately next any women where her view of mine will pull me down instead of pushing me up. It’s just too unhealthy. Adding to my comment above, I’d even state the famed “Natural” is just a man who got that admiration from women early as a child from family, mothers, sisters… Read more »

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walawala: “I’m not sure what that is…fear of losing me so they try to destroy me?”

Sometimes they self-sabotage simply to assert the only control they feel they have. I’ve even had it happen on first dates when a woman thinks I’m out of her league, or has too much attraction but is focused on her prior serial failures.

anon
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@phantom26d Definition of game: Confidence + Action = Game Have the confidence to go after the things you want; Have the self-esteem to believe you will achieve your goals; Visualize yourself succeeding in your goals; Have the dedication to master the skills/knowledge that will help you achieve your goals; Act. Achieve your goals. Then set new, higher ones. Often, this will apply to females, but if you really pay attention to what Rollo, CH, etc. are saying, you will see pussy is a by-product, not the goal. Power is the goal. Woman do not want to be the goal, they… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Dragonfly A wife pretending to feel those things, may MAY actually start feeling them for real, but getting her to pretend them in the first place would be very hard. Won’t happen for two reasons. 1) In the scenario you’re describing, she is leading him to a more Alpha state. That’s just going to reinforce her view of him as a man that can’t lead and can’t be in charge. 2) Since he’s just following her lead, he’s going to stop where she stops. He won’t “Just Get It” and take over ever. As much as I hate to say… Read more »

hamster_wrestler
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Joe Katzman, thank you for the link. I just downloaded Ana Karinina for the grand price of 99 cents off of Amazon.

dumbwhtboy
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The women that admired me where the ones I hurt. The ones I treated like shit. Upon reflection, the more I wanted to give, the more repulsive I became. The more familiar. The more generous. Than I was disgusting. Mexican girl I dated when I was young. I would screw her on the street. In public buildings. She was mad after me. Then came the Epiphany phase. I met her years after and she was all Betabux betabux. I was a threat. But boy I could tell she wanted a good screw. Such strange shit. I forget what true admiration… Read more »

dumbwhtboy
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Those of you asking about game.

Met an 87 year old farmer. Arguing with his wife. Hell of an argument. She stormed off.
I asked him if the shit ever ends. He said:

Boy set them rules from the first day. When you first say hello you better let that woman know how it’s gone be. It says so in the good book. I fucked up. Look at me now. Arguing and fussing 60 years later! You better let your woman know the rules or you hit the road.

Now that’s game for you guys.

DeNihilist
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admiration is the parting of the thighs.

respect is the convulsions of the hips.

Not Born This Morning
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“The beta can possibly become more alpha by being admired, respected, desired, felt addicted to, etc. but realistically, I don’t think many women do that for a beta husband/man.” Not possible for any woman to do so. By definition “beta” is never respected. That’s why we call them beta, now isn’t it? “or an alpha she effectively turned into a beta” Also not possible. That’s why we call them alpha. It is not possible for a man who runs his life to be manipulated by any woman. Genuine respect and admiration cannot be used in a frivolous masquerade to facilitate… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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“The beta can possibly become more alpha”

“an alpha she effectively turned into a beta”

I, I, I, I, I, I, I’ve, I, I, I…

Genuine masculinity is not dependent upon any woman who appoints herself to the defense of it.

Bluepillprofessor
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““The beta can possibly become more alpha by being admired, respected, desired, felt addicted to, etc. but realistically, I don’t think many women do that for a beta husband/man.” All the binary responses to this proposition. You can’t turn a Beta into an Alpha. BULLSHIT! Alpha-Beta is on a continuum it is not either or. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that a determined woman can and will increase the Alpha of her man by showing him respect and fucking him silly. My question is why is there such opposition to this proposition? Why are women seemingly completely… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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And masculinity grows out of its own, complementing the feminine but never supplicating dependence upon the feminine.

Not Born This Morning
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My question is why is there such opposition to this proposition?

Unfortunately for the “masterbeta” reality is the opposition.

dumbwhtboy
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I was not going to comment, but @bluepillprofessor if you think every man can be an Alpha then you are smoking the good stuff. You should meet my brother. Wife tells him when to brush his teeth. What clothes to wear. How fast to drive. They have not had sex in years. She is fat and repulsive good bless her heart ( so is he). But that coward brother of mine an Alpha? He let me get beat up by four dirty rednecks in a parking lot a few years ago. He ran after opening his dumb ass mouth. Alpha?… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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This whole thing can be kind of compared to bicycle racing. A guy who used to race with us never kept up at really intense hammer time. He always got dropped and complained about himself for it. He was apparently trying hard but could never stay with the pack. He was capable but wasn’t training consistently or eating well. He asked everyone questions, TALKED techniques, diet, training, etc. and regularly complained about his performance. One day he asked me, “Man! how can you guys go 30 mph, I just cant seem to do it? The answer somehow popped into my… Read more »

thedeti
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“I’m coming to the suspicion that women’s revulsion towards Beta male psychology, personality and behaviors is an evolved instinct. “There is a female hindbrain, limbic sensitivity to Beta behavioral patterns. This leads me to believe that after a certain threshold of tolerance women’s perception of that Beta is set for her.” Right. You know all this, from your interactions with the HUS commentariat, and the Sunshine Mary blog You remember the discussions in which it was asserted that women could be sexually aroused by beta traits. You remember the assertions that female attraction triggers are malleable and that with effort,… Read more »

Mr T
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Respect = I am the only one you fuck . Admiration = you blow me dry all the time. Adore=anal sex. Appreciated=after I come, you’re OK with me falling asleep. Forgiving =if I cheat on you. Loyalty =you take me back after I cheated. come on fellow men , TELL me YOURS. I have yet to see ONE of you explain what he means by needing respect/admiration/appreciation from a woman ? I know ,,if you struggle with your answers ,, it means they mean nothing to you or to any woman . women themselves struggle finding answers because they know… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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@dumbwhtboy

“I was not going to comment, but @bluepillprofessor if you think every man can be an Alpha then you are smoking the good stuff….”

I hope you are wrong. Hopefully every man is born alpha and that the beta we experience and see is the result of conditioning. Maybe alpha can be realized by men everywhere through developing themselves for the betterment of themselves and those around them rather than missing the opportunity by erroneously assuming alpha is a hoop to jump through to “get laid” or wishing alpha can some how be instilled by mothering.

DeNihilist
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And to further Deti’s take, we have this bit of reality –

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/elizabeth-plank-beyonce-flip-the-script_n_7026128.html

DeNihilist
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See above T

DeNihilist
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NBTM – nope, most people are born to follow, just a few to lead. Some followers can become good commanders and fulfill their leaders wish, but most just stay a part of the herd.

Sun Wukong
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Betas can become Alpha, Alphas can become Betas. Personality is malleable and Alpha is a mindset. However, expecting that a woman can (or will even try to) do it for a man she’s in an LTR with is like expecting that if you just ignore gravity hard enough you can fly without a plane. Expecting that a woman can get a guy you can “work on” and make him Alpha is as stupid as a guy getting a slightly overweight chick and thinking he can make her lose that weight and be hot. That ain’t how it works. It must… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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I wonder if Beta behavior can ever be reclassified as pathological the way Alpha behavior is these days. It sure as hell should be, with the awful consequences it sets a man up for.

dumbwhtboy
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I’ve seen man on a battle field. Guys in law enforcement. Sometimes they come of age under machine gun fire and they wake up and become fire breathing dragons. Awesome sight. Also, they will cower cry and or let you die. Another way to see ya know.
Maybe all men can become Alpha ( the ideal) but that’s a state of mind. It sets you free. All you fear is gone and you walk with death. Some man can do it. Other die cowards. That’s what I saw.

Mr T
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turning a beta into alpha mindset ?
you can put all the lip stick on the pig`s lips and ………………..

dumbwhtboy
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And to a simple guy like me, a coward is the equivalent cheap slutty woman. Once you go that way, it is a messed up road back. If you can make it. Sorry I’m not a good writer like you guys.

Sun Wukong
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@Mr T

Then the entire change I’ve seen in myself has been imagined? The belief that I can actually walk the path that I’ve chosen is pure bullshit? I am forever the Beta I was when I was younger and there’s no hope of changing? That’s certainly news to me.

If you want to resign yourself to an unalterable fate you can. I, for one, believe that I’m better than that and can rise above the piss poor hand I was dealt.

Not Born This Morning
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/elizabeth-plank-beyonce-flip-the-script_n_7026128.html

The script of the above is founded upon the underlying subconscious realization that the feminine is subordinate to the masculine. Achieving masculine character, performance, and recognition is the goal for the feminine in this propaganda as it simultaneously shames and vilifies the masculine while women everywhere crave a masculine mate.

This conundrum repeats over and over and over and over, many generations now.

One million years + of evolved DNA cannot be corrupted by pop culture bullshit, but the emotions of people everywhere can be corrupted and manipulated by power seekers.

Not Born This Morning
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DeNihilist

“…most people are born to follow, just a few to lead. Some followers can become good commanders and fulfill their leaders wish, but most just stay a part of the herd.”

I must agree, that is the net result.

thedeti
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@ Blue Pill Prof:

“My question is why is there such opposition to this proposition?

Why are women seemingly completely opposed to the notion of even providing a false sense of respect and admiration?

Why is it impossible for a woman to take one for the team and at least ACT with respect towards the husband she helped Beta?

Why do men think that getting respect and admiration from a woman would not change him for the better?”
________

You know the answer, Perfesser. These women’s husbands don’t arouse them. There’s no sexual attraction from her to him.

dumbwhtboy
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I enjoy your blog. It takes me some time to understand it, but it is very educative for me. You put the things I think in my head in great paragraphs.

Most of you guys commenting are very educated. It requires effort but I learn great things here. I hope it is fine if I runy keyboard again.

Dragonfly
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https://youtu.be/3of_EN0XpxI

haha … relevant.

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@Deti ” The problem is that these women have to be encouraged to have sex with their beta husbands, because they aren’t sexually attracted to those men. They don’t want to have sex with those men. If they did, they’d be doing it instead of talking about it. ” I don’t necessarily agree. In many cases, certainly the problem is that the woman does not find the man attractive. In other cases it is that she does not find his behavior attractive and is asserting control in one of the major ways she can – by denying him sex. In… Read more »

thedeti
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@ Jeremy: Whether she has a lack of physical attraction or is put off by his conduct (usually way, waaaay too much beta), the result is still a lack of sexual arousal. So any way you slice it or whatever labels you affix to it, it is still lack of sexual arousal — an arousal she had for more attractive, better, more alpha, hotter men she had sex with before she married her husband. “It isn’t necessarily that she doesn’t WANT to have sex, but rather that she is totally caught up in other priorities that she feels are more… Read more »

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“Remember: That wife who is prioritizing laundry and the daughter’s piano lessons and the son’s soccer practice over her husband’s sexual needs is the same carefree single coed who was going home with Alpha McGorgeous and Harley McBadboy, and carrying her panties home in her purse on the Walks of Shame the following morning.” Nope. She may have been that woman, but now her role has changed…and so have her priorities. You wrote that if she wanted to have sex, she would. I disagree (in many cases). Tell me, if she wanted to go to the gym, would she necessarily,… Read more »

Mr T
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if you are in a beta marriage/relationship and want to change to alpha you have to change the alpha widow too,

never underestimate women`s ultra sensitive beta detector sensors to notice the change.

Dragonfly`s motives are suspicious and questionable .
she is trying to teach women (alpha women) something they already know , she should call the spade a spade .
what she (and I am sure she knows) is teaching works with virgins not with alpha widows who are the 99%.

Dragonfly
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Jeremy “Her “role” as the girlfriend was to “land the husband.” She prioritizes him, attends to his needs, laughs at his jokes, provides him with admiration and validation….because she wants to show him that she would make him a good wife. Once she is married, though, her role changes. She no longer needs to impress him. She has him already. And once she celebrates her honeymoon, the process of hedonic adaptation begins, wherein she ceases to appreciate what she already has. Suddenly new priorities take the place of old ones – and the personality changes. This is true even more… Read more »

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Deti “I disagree. The medium is the message. She is clearly communicating lack of sexual interest by prioritizing everything before it. If her husband did sexually arouse her, she’d prioritize sex.” This is also truth. The difference is her trying to place her husband into a beta (acceptable role) for her new mindset (children first… sleep first…). If he stays in frame, he won’t settle for it, but many men don’t realize what’s happening to them more than likely, they allow themselves to get placed into a beta role. Slowly, but surely, she starts to “fall out of love” with… Read more »

Dragonfly
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I know Rollo wrote something on this – on women desiring “the man you used to be” – when a husband allows himself to become beta in the marriage. Sorry, Rollo, not sure where to find it.

Mr T
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“Remember: That wife who is prioritizing laundry and the daughter’s piano lessons and the son’s soccer practice over her husband’s sexual needs is the same carefree single coed who was going home with Alpha McGorgeous and Harley McBadboy, and carrying her panties home in her purse on the Walks of Shame the following morning.”

Nope. She may have been that woman, but now her role has changed…and so have her priorities.

UNLESS IF GEORGE CLONEY SHOWED UP AT THE LAUNDRY WHILE HUBBY IS WATCHING THE GAME

Badpainter
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The role of wive as an asexual, parasitic, hag is defined externally to the woman. If the culture defined wife as sexually giving, supportive, and appreciative then women would play that role. To be a modern woman who respects and appreciates a man’s provisioning and protection, and demonstrates that by being sexually giving is a prostitute both in function and in economic fact. To avoid the role of prostitute the wife must be a selfish prude. In today’s society prostitutes can offer the well played fantasy of appreciation and adoration of the man because their livelihoods depend on it. No… Read more »

jeremy
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@Rollo, I disagree. 50 Shades of Grey and that genre appeal to women’s dopaminergic system. Their desire for novelty, romance, danger. There are women whose personalities predispose them to dopamine-addiction. Such women make exciting girlfriends, but lousy wives. The excitement phase of a new relationship is the one where a woman might do what Deti suggests. But once dopamine wears off, she will either settle down into a non-dopaminergic relationship, or else move on to the next man. To those who prioritize marriage and have no desire to move on to the next man, their serotonergic system kicks in (see… Read more »

Mr T
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WARNING WARNING

” That wife who is prioritizing laundry and the daughter’s piano lessons and the son’s soccer practice over her husband’s sexual needs ”

you are/were plan B .
prioritizing = finding reasons for not fucking you.
synonyms
not in to you , get lost , go jerk off ,never were attracted to you dip stick.

TuffLuv
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@not born “Hopefully every man is born alpha and that the beta we experience and see is the result of conditioning. ” I think it’s simpler than that in many cases. I think it’s just like a gun-shy bird dog. Exposure to the bang bang too early, without the right context, without the mentor or other construct there to comfort and explain (or soothe in the dog’s case).. can ruin it for life. The gun, or the bang of lifelong betadome is …. rejection. I’ve said it before.. once Rollo put into perspective the absurdity of the lengths we will… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@jeremy

There are women whose personalities predispose them to dopamine-addiction.

AWALT.

You’re trying to conjure the myth of the Quality Woman ™. Stop that.

AWALT.

BuenaVista
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Jeremy, any woman who desires a man, particularly because of the culture, not in spite of it, is going to have sex with that man. They make male scheming for female attention, in comparison, seem like toddlers trying bang a baseball off a tee, while they’re Bryce Harper in BP. You’re argument is a justifying, backhanded nod to feminist complaints that if there’s anything wrong with a woman, it’s the fault of social (patriarchal) conformity expectations; why she’s just a *victim* of all these meany anti-woman constraints. That’s why there are so many women out here who loathe contact with… Read more »

Mr T
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why would a woman put her priority on laundry or nursing a baby over a ten minutes of fucking ? or 5 minutes ?

boy , if she can`t spare you 10 minutes of respect/fucking ,,,well ,, you know.

rugby11ljh
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@tufflove being rejected is alpha because it’s the unknown you learn.
@Not Born This Morning
I love biking

BuenaVista
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I know a married woman, a total knockout, who has twice-monthly duty sex (one position, she uses a vibrator simultaneously) with her Good Man husband. She’s a 9, he’s a 6, on looks anyway. (He makes a good living.) She runs her own restaurant, does crossfit and teaches yoga 10x a week total on top of that schedule. Two children at home in ADDITION. When she tried to trade out and up, and added ANOTHER scheduled task to her day, she wanted it twice daily. The days of marrying a woman who isn’t sexually attracted to man, and the end… Read more »

thedeti
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@ Jeremy: “You wrote that if she wanted to have sex, she would. I disagree (in many cases). Tell me, if she wanted to go to the gym, would she necessarily, or would she perhaps lack the time? If she loves to eat rack of lamb, would she? Or might she accept frozen chicken because she has no time (or feels that she doesn’t). If she loves to watch a certain show on tv, will she necessarily? Or might she have to miss it. It all depends on her priorities – what she feels her role demands of her.” I… Read more »

thedeti
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And in most cases, she married Seth Rogen, but only after Brad and George and Channing Tatum and about five more good looking men got to take their turns with her.

Dragonfly
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“I disagree. People make time for what’s important to them. People pursue what they love. If sex is important to them, they make time for it.” Truth

rugby11ljh
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Was thinking of killing myself as a beta this helped for some reason She would defend herself, saying that love, no matter what else it might be, was a natural talent. She would say: You are either born knowing how, or you never know. Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, Love in the Time of Cholera He was still too young to know that the heart’s memory eliminates the bad and magnifies the good, and that thanks to this artifice we manage to endure the burden of the past. But when he stood at the railing of the ship… only then did he… Read more »

Will
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I’m going to medical school soon but I had a question that some people in the crowd might be able to touch on:

Can someone explain to me why I see so many guys in medical school, residents, and doctors with ugly girls??? I swear I see either ugly wives or ugly brides.

Does anyone else notice this….?

I just don’t want the girl situation to be slim. My guess is that most of these guys don’t have game and they’re nerdy…which isn’t the case so much for me but idk

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

Claiming that only a portion of the female population is dopamine addicted seems like trying to claim a large part isn’t. Smells like a move towards “A Quality Woman ™ isn’t like that” to me. Of course it’s a matter of how you look at it, I suppose.

BuenaVista
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Will, lighten up. If you like women and know how they think, the *worst* thing for your med school obligations is acting on that knowledge. You need to go into monk mode for three years. Pre-meds have all of the social skills of four year-olds in your average Manhattan private pre-school (tuition: less than a state school med school). Just do your work and let the girls come to you. Read blogs like this for diversion, when your mind is fried. Absorb the info, act on the info, when it’s appropriate. Your job now is to clear the med school… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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Hey in massage school thanks for that.

Bachelorocles
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In many foreign cultures, female respect for men is the cultural and inculcated default. Spend time with some of them and you will be unable to go back to American women. Rollo, I apologize for the long quote that follows. But’s its very apropos and worth the read: “Everything about woman is a riddle, and everything about woman has one solution: that is pregnancy. Man is for woman a means: the end is always the child. But what is woman for man? “A real man wants two things: danger and play. Therefore he wants woman as the most dangerous plaything.… Read more »

Lucien
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“I find this interesting because in other cultures it’s very different.” Yeeeaaah. I actually found this one of the least convincing posts. I’m not convinced that what’s written really figures out how admiration and respect correlate with anything else. We know one thing: the condition of the married, sexless “beta” is one of lacking admiration and respect. I can’t really speak to this because I’ve never been married. But that seems more like the very definition of “beta,” as people constantly talk about it here, than a new insight. I think the idea that women are somehow inherently reluctant to… Read more »

Lucien
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@Sun Wukong “However, expecting that a woman can (or will even try to) do it for a man she’s in an LTR with is like expecting that if you just ignore gravity hard enough you can fly without a plane. Expecting that a woman can get a guy you can “work on” and make him Alpha is as stupid as a guy getting a slightly overweight chick and thinking he can make her lose that weight and be hot. That ain’t how it works.” Wrong. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Confidence is experiential. Having a woman makes a… Read more »

pvlasic
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The thing that hurts most men is the transformation. Most married men that are now sexless were once dating a slimer, fitter version of the woman sitting on the couch and drinking Pepsi. What happened?
She was a cuter, younger version that occasionally enjoyed good sex. How come not now? Why must he go in the other room to masturbate to internet porn? And how come she never never wants it? He works hard. He sacrifices. He does everything. Wtf?

Bromeo
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@Rollo I think you have put up a lot of posts regarding the early stages (spinning plates) and also the other end (marriage) and how to properly keep frame/run game in those situations in terms of male/female dynamics. What we need is more of the transition phase, the issue I have is if females have a dualistic mating strategy (AF short term and BB longterm) that means when you are spinning plates AF is obv the best strategy but what happens when you want to start a family? You have even mentioned that females do not want AF and BB… Read more »

Glenn
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One thing that’s missing from this discussion is the very different nature of female sexual arousal and attraction from men’s. Women are omnivores but with much lower sex interest in general, while men are strictly interested in targets within their orientation and much more amped up about it most of the time (except around ovulation where women start to approach the level of sex drive men have). Numerous studies have shown that women get aroused by watching sex between a man and a woman, two women, two men and even scenes of animal sex. Not so for men – if… Read more »

sjfrellc
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Bromeo, Rollo never was and never will be prescriptive. It is not his style and it is a losing proposition. He can’t write a prescription specifically for you and your situation. Despite Athol Kay’s succumbing to the $ imperative and now dispenses purple pill advice, his vintage stuff > 3 years old is still good stuff for LTR and married man game. He distilled red pill truths and applied them to married man game over many years of “research”. The moment you COMMIT you are Beta. And she needs Beta (it is for the children). Even though a man can’t… Read more »

sjfrellc
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Well said Glenn.

Sun Wukong
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@Lucien

What you’re referring to reinforces already existing confidence and also applies more to a guy still playing the field. In an LTR with a Beta that pretty much lacks it compliments like that aren’t going to build an Alpha. Further, you’re not going to get them out of her. Ever. Certainly not in any genuine capacity that he’ll believe, at any rate.

yossarian
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@Glenn especially, but to all of you Feel free to flame my comment. Real “alphas” are out there banging broads, taking charge, doing things. They agree not stroking their old men egos on the internet….P.S. you ain’t got nothing on a hot 21 year old guy. He got the world. At your age you may be in shape but you don’t arouse a woman like a young buck. How deluded are you? I understand all of us reading and posting here are “betas” trying to transition, but brother please. If you have to brag on the internet about your “hotness”… Read more »

sjfrellc
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@deviant1

April 10th, 2015 at 11:00 am

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

Didn’t you know that 100% of Alphas are uneducated backwards hat bros with no capacity for anything but banging chicks and doing keg stands? Closest they ever come to a computer is a couple rounds of the latest Call of Duty, and even then it’s only because it’s cool.

lh
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When I said a page back one should dump any women lacking admiration of course I didn’t talk about making demands or even dread game, you can’t talk about that at all. I was talking about pure action. For me the lack of admiration is just the sign it’s over and time to go for the next. @dragonfly: There is not much disagreement between us to keep the discussion running. Regarding the idea of how to educate a son I’d want to add how important it also is to train a son all the ways of manipulation women do without… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Glenn Coming from a common background between the two of us, I’m not sure willingness to plunge headlong in to a fight is Alpha dominance. When you grow up abused by parents, you’re used to being physically threatened by what amount to giants the likes of which no man will ever have to face. It might bring a certain degree of recklessness and fearlessness to the table which can make it easier to be dominant (when you get push back you’re simply not scared where others would be), but I think dominance itself comes more from self confidence and self… Read more »

Glenn
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I suspect that Alpha dominance is at some level related to one’s proclivity to be aggressive and physically fight other males. To this day, I’m still ready to throwdown, in fact I went there two months ago with a wiseass, loudmouth 25 yr old who thought he could treat me derisively. I actually didn’t have to hit him, but I scared the living shit out of him. Without going into details, he had it coming with a few weird/nasty comments to me and he actually fucked with me at a gig I was doing – he was another musician there.… Read more »

Glenn
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@ Sun – Not saying it’s a “source of Alpha”, I’m not sure how all of his works and interacts. But I know for a fact women react to it. More than couple have told me they feel safe with me, and you also have to get that I don’t pop off like that much, and I particularly avoid doing it with women around as most can’t handle it. But to me, being fearless is somehow part of being alpha, it’s confidence at a very basic, visceral level. I’m not scared of you. No matter what. Fyi, I won’t ever… Read more »

yossarian
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@Glenn and sun

I know that guy was trolling before, but you two are explaining on an internet forum how “badass” you are and how you can throw down??! I don’t think Corey Worthington would approve.

yossarian
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And Rollo you can call me a troll as well, but when I read of a guy explaining how he throws down with a pool stick against armed bikers it reminds me of my ex talking about how when she was 21 every guy in da club would go crazy for her….”I was so hot that I got free everything all night. This one time I won best tits in NYC contest. You don’t know shit….blah blah blah.”

I got it. Subject was admiration. How did we get to…

Raiden
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@ Glenn « but it all happens in an instant, does anyone else here know what I’m saying? It’s quite odd talking about all this and it makes me realize yet another aspect of our FI informed society. It’s like I should be ashamed of fighting and protecting myself – again, I was rarely the instigator. I have never been a bully or a guy who starts fights in bars etc. I do finish it though.» I know what you are saying. There is a reason why personally I avoid fighting and I smile or laugh when somebody tries to… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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This is off the specific subject somewhat, but I want to interject it while I’m thinking about it. I recently read a report posted on the net concerning the psychology of human sexual conditioning. I can’t find it again otherwise I would post the link. Sorry. The study described sexual conditioning as a development process we all experience beginning in early childhood and progressing through adolescence. It related various social behaviors we are exposed to during our development stages to our adult sexual preferences and behaviors. For example, part of the study described how women can emotionally “damage” young boys… Read more »

Mr T
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there were lots of alphas in Hiroshima 1945 only to be wiped out by the alpha of all alpha :

by this guy ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlSQAZEp3PA

alpha is a mind set
alpha is a mind set
alpha is a mind set
alpha is a mind set

Mr T
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Adolf Hitler was a small man week man but he had the alpha mind set that caused 50 mil dead.

alpha is a mind set.

Sun Wukong
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@yossarian

We’re I trying to threaten people instead of discussing characteristics of dominant behavior, you might have a point. Instead, you just come across as automatically shaming the discussion without considering the context or the intent.

Like I give a fuck if you or Corey Worthington approves of my behavior. Fuck off and let the men talk.

Not Born This Morning
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Wow! The warrior gene. Interesting.

If you think the nerd gene is the new alpha gene, don’t get your hopes up.

Women do not want to fuck books, computers, engineering equations or atomic bombs. Alpha is alpha fucks, not alpha bookworm, alpha technogeek or alpha slide rule. Women want to fuck strong healthy physically fit males. Hot women will not settle for less with uninhibited sex. Several hundred thousand years of evolved DNA is not going to modify over night itself just to make a sexual losers fantasy come true.

Bachelorocles
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@ Glenn “Women are omnivores but with much lower sex interest in general” I’m not sure I agree. My theory at the moment is men evolved to be sexually attracted to a very large portion of the female population while women evolved to be attracted only to a few men. As Mystery said, women evolved to want to fuck the king and his buddies. Put a woman in a room with a rock star, professional athlete, movie star, or any other male 10, and she will behave as voraciously as any man will toward a HB 8 to 10. This… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Mr. T

You should research Hitler’s life. It was not glamorous to say the least. He was rejected often, not very outgoing and made few friends. He was lazy and basically a looser. His mommy took up for him a lot. He had only one testicle.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/11/19/german-medic-account-confirms-hitler-had-only-one-testicle/

Maybe he was a really fucked up beta gone berserk.

Not Born This Morning
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“Women are omnivores but with much lower sex interest in general” Mistaken. Women are better at hiding their lust. Hiding It is an important part of their game. They want to remain covert, discrete. They want to do (or want you to do) all the nasty things you think about; just as bad as you and possibly more. Its only a matter of them thinking of you as being one to do it with. Stop worrying about yourself (if you are worrying about yourself) and observe, turn on your radar and you may be surprised how many opportunities you are… Read more »

Mr T
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uZPvr4lPLw
spot the alpha .
I hope you ” just get it”.

Not Born This Morning
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A long time ago when I was a weakling and felt very inadequate I would often think to myself and sometimes talk about what a bad ass I “really” was. The man who actually wins a real fight is the real bad ass.

Mr T
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