Admiration & Respect

admiration

One thing I really enjoy about doing the few interviews I’ve done is that they allow me to do a stream of consciousness dialog with another person. I like this because it’s very close to the internal dialoging I do when I’m writing notes or researching a topic. While I was talking with Christian McQueen last week the topic of respect came up and I riffed on this for a bit.

“Be with a woman that admires you… admiration creates a different kind of respect”

I’ve delved into the dynamic of respect in the past, but what I was getting at with this was the ways in which women and men differ in their views of respect. Towards the close of last weeks post I made mention of Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post on the womanly art of seduction. What I found interesting in her list of seductive qualities was that these aren’t really means of seduction, but rather mindsets women should adopt to maintain a healthy relationship.

As I mentioned in that post, women’s methods of seduction are a lost art, but those means lack real significance if there is no genuine desire for that man. Women can very easily seduce men today. So starved for intimate attention are the majority of men that they create the seductive narrative for themselves; all a woman need do is make it easy for him to believe.

On a woman’s part, seduction doesn’t require much. There was a time I did some investigation into the profiles of professional online escorts. I had followed some links Advocatus Diaboli had offered in a few of his posts about his dealing with escorts, and while there were the prerequisite “pros’ with pornstar bodies and manners to match, the majority of these women were semi-attractive “amateurs” you’d be surprised by if you saw them in casual clothes. These women tended to be in their 30s-40s but what was telling was how each gal sold herself to potential clients.

To the average frustrated husband or sexless mature man I have no doubt these women were like a tall glass of water in the desert. By my own standards they were average, but what I noticed was each woman’s profile offered some variation of “you’ve worked hard, isn’t it time you enjoyed the appreciation you deserve?”, “let me treat you the way you should be appreciated” or “you’ve earned a good time with a woman who knows how to please her man.”

For part-time semi-pro escorts I was impressed by how well they knew their demographic. My guess is more than a few were divorced, but found their ‘niche’ so to speak once they were set up with spousal support. Each of them sold themselves based on at least the feigned mindset which Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo proposed women (wives) adopt to seduce their men (husbands).

In that list the first of the two articles stood out the most:

Admiration

Virtually all men crave a woman who admires him.  A woman who will listen to him when he’s talking about something he finds interesting, or when he’s giving his opinion.  They want a woman who will be interested and fascinated with what he says – yes, I said fascinated.  It turns them on to be in the presence of a hot woman (his wife) who is also giving him her entire attention and the right kind of feedback that says, “You are such an interesting man!  Omg I want you!  Now!!!”

When was the last time you reacted to your husband like that?  I know… us wives are ridiculously tired, over-achieving, too much to do, have kids hanging off our legs at any moment when we’re at home (or out… at the store trying to deal with a meltdown).  I understand, I’m a wife and mother of two now.  But guess what?  Your husband craves this kind of thing, and if this need is met by you, he will move mountains to ensure your happiness.

Of these two, admiration is the most important. Feigned admiration is the stripper’s secret (as well as the semi-pro escort’s). To the man unused to genuine admiration (that is to say 80%+ of them) this becomes his worst thumbscrew and source of manipulation. Sexual ‘thirst’ is certainly a factor, but men inherently realize the sexual attraction value that a woman’s admiration represents for themselves.

Part of men’s conditioning is recognizing the effect that simple social proof to overt fame has on women. Smart men figure out how to leverage this to their advantage as a part of Game, but most are so starved of that admiration that even marginal displays from women are enough to convince him her intents are genuine.

Truth or Compliments

Private Man had an interesting post regarding his tweet on compliments from women:

My response was thus:

“Compliments = IOIs (Indicators Of her Interest in the man). 80%+ of men are Betas, thus compliments are a rare. Can’t have Betas get the wrong ideas.”

Compliments are considered an expression of admiration for men, but largely supplication for women. In the past I’ve gone into detail about how compliments for women need to be sparse because, for the greater part of women, compliments have very little value to them. In an age of social media and ‘quick-hit ego boosts’ from her girlfriends and symps, compliments are common.

What’s scarce is valuable, so the rare compliment from a high-value Alpha is a solid reinforcer for a woman – from a Beta compliments are a liability; they are an overt expression of interest from a man she has very little interest in beyond his utility to her.

For that same reason, women giving compliments to men they have no genuine admiration for also becomes a liability – even if that liability is just implied to herself. Ergo, women rarely express admiration for a man they genuinely have no true admiration of – it’s too risky. This is why women must be taught (as in Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s post) to be conscious of, and attentive to, delivering compliments to men they’ve committed to, but regard as Beta. Left to their natural impulses women simply avoid complimenting men they have no desire to be held accountable to.

Private Man asks:

What’s wrong with reinforcing a man’s confidence through a compliment? Women adore confident men. The compliment is the opposite of the shit test where a woman tests the mans adversity by artificially creating that adversity by herself.

Not to run him up the flagpole (I have a deep respect for PM), but Private Man answers his own question inadvertently. Women do adore confident men, but by definition a confident man wouldn’t need any reinforcement of that confidence. Once again, women want a man who ‘Just Gets It‘. Any (Alpha) man a woman has a genuine admiration of doesn’t need a confidence boost from her – in fact that boost, and the implied need of it, only raises Hypergamous doubt for her.

Just as with the differing concepts of love and communication, men tend to presume that their concept of admiration is the universal one. The aspects and considerations men base their admiration of other men on are not the same that women use for men. I outlined this a bit in Hysteria, but there is a uniquely female precondition of unqualified social proof women entertain for themselves as a component to their arousal that men (at least heterosexual ones) don’t have for other men.

In other words men who women are unfamiliar with are an unverified commodity to women with regard to arousal / attraction. As you can see in the videos I linked in Hysteria, this unfamiliarity with a man’s real social value (and associated SMV) are easily mimicked when they control the environment and situation. It’s this unfamiliarity and a want to believe in the possibility that a man may possess fame or even simple third-party social esteem that leads to an easy admiration for a man women have just met or are only casually familiar with.

Imaginings

Women’s imagination is one of the best tools in a man’s Game toolbox, but this is so because Hypergamous doubt is also Hypergamous prospect. The same Hypergamy that predisposes a woman to opportunistic sexual strategy also drives her imaginings about its potential fulfillment by unfamiliar men. It’s far easier for a woman to imagine she should admire a man she doesn’t know than for her to appreciate a man she’s already intimately familiar with anything close to that same admiration.

This is what men idealistically want to believe about admiration coming from their wives and long-time girlfriends – that it’s just as sincere as the expressions of admiration, the compliments and inspiration, she’s naturally disposed to give to men she’s unfamiliar with, even when that man was himself when they first met. Compliments and admiration are less believable, not to mention far less forthcoming, when a woman is aware of the person you “really” are in an LTR because hypergamous prospect turns to hypergamous doubt.

As I mention in Frame, the dominant frame you establish and enter into a relationship with sets the tone for that relationship. Sincere admiration and genuine desire are key components to setting that frame before you enter into an LTR or marriage.  You will never experience a more sincere admiration from a woman than while you are single and uncommitted. Her imagination fills in the blanks for her perception of you because you represent the potential of fulfilling her sexual strategy (either Alpha Fucks or Beta Bucks). Once you are committed and a woman has had those blanks filled in by her familiarity with you, admiration and compliments (if any) become something women need to be taught and reminded are something they ought to maintain to keep men interested in them by necessity.

If there is no admiration expressed from a woman while you’re single, or you’ve got to fish for compliments, or you’ve got to plead your case to her that you are someone she should admire, never enter into any kind of commitment with her.

Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo’s next article of seduction was respect:

Respect

How many men crave respect?  All of them.  They want to be known as the leader of their house, they want their wives to defer to them for decisions – but they want their wives to genuinely do it out of the feeling of respect, not just half-heartedly ask their husbands what they think, but to let them know that they are expressly interested in their husband’s response because of who he is.

They want a woman who looks up to them – who doesn’t try to outshine them or put them down – but who greatly esteems them and their opinions on matters (this ties in directly with Admiration).  They don’t want a wife who will constantly argue and bicker with them over decisions and details, or one who challenges them and their headship constantly.

Respect amongst men and respect amongst women are, again, two differing concepts. GWADT describes her impression of what she perceives men would want in terms of respect from their spouses, but this outline ignores the basic principles of the Desire Dynamic – respect is valueless if it’s an obligation, you cannot negotiate a genuine respect. Men understand this because respect between men is something that is earned, whereas constant social conditioning makes respect for women something to be expected.

Respect for a woman is a given and as such, like compliments, it becomes so cheap a commodity to women they have no concept that it means something entirely different amongst men. In fact, Blue Pill conditioned men are so socially insaturated in a default “respect” for women that it’s become an article of Beta Game among them. Properly trained White Knights make a competition of “out-respecting” one another with their declarations of respecting women. They believe it sets them apart from “other guys” who don’t respect women and thus make them uniquely in touch and identifying with what they’ve been taught women want.

The next time you see some self-evincing meme declaring “a real gentleman does X for a woman” posted on Facebook by one of your Blue Pill friends you’ll understand how valueless the term respect really is to women. I hit on this in my post Respect:

Masculine Respect

So this is my point, women don’t respect men, or rather, they don’t respect the masculine – and most certainly don’t have a default respect for it. They’re taught to be adversarial, not cooperative. Women are taught to relinquish respect, and then only begrudgingly when a man has proven his quality beyond the reach of most men. Masculinity is popularly ridiculed in western culture as it is, but to respect a man is to compete with him, to out-masculine him. Cooperation or even recognizing that the genders could be complimentary is viewed at best as antiquated, at worst, sublimation to the male imperative.

Women have very little incentive for learning to defer to a man with a default respect when respect for women is already a social entitlement – that is the frame of reference women have with respect. Even average fathers seldom experience an organic respect from their daughters unless they are taught (usually by example) to appreciate the qualities that make him respectable. Women in the workplace presume they’re being treated with a default professional respect, but any respect that’s afforded them generally begins with that default ‘Respect for Women’® dynamic that 80%+ of men already believe is their due.

When men express respect for other men it’s usually because they’ve in some way earned it or earned a respectable office. That’s not always the reality, but it is the general presumption that respectable men are “leaders of their house” (business, position, team or rank) and makers of the decisions others follow because they have earned it. Think about the men you genuinely respect. Why do you respect them? What have they done to merit your deference of respect to them?

The way a man considers these aspects differs from how a woman considers these aspects. Respectable Men are keenly aware of a respect offered to them due to obligation as opposed to a genuine, considerate and introspective respect. So when a woman who presumes she holds a default authority humbles herself, and magnanimously allows a man she’s told she should respect a degree of deference, that man understands it’s her obligation and not a genuine respect he’d experience from other men.

Indeed, men do want a woman who looks up to them, admires them and respects them, but too many men don’t recognize the motivators behind women expressing them. Many Beta men make a joke out of their wives being “the real boss” or how she “puts up with him.” They have no concept, much less any expectation, of an organic, uncoerced masculine admiration, respect or even a compliment, so it’s no surprise when they can’t discern between a real expression of sincerity and one motivated by manipulation or obligation.

Lastly, ladies, the best compliment you can give a man is with your body and consideration. Unexpected gestures, being an imaginative lover, staying in shape because you want to please a man, are the best expressions of genuine desire, admiration and respect. Nothing conveys real appreciation for a man better than the unsolicited desire you reserve for Alpha Fucks. You want him to know you admire and respect him? Initiate sex with him, often and with intensity.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

302 comments on “Admiration & Respect

  1. Joe Katzman, thank you for the link. I just downloaded Ana Karinina for the grand price of 99 cents off of Amazon.

  2. The women that admired me where the ones I hurt. The ones I treated like shit. Upon reflection, the more I wanted to give, the more repulsive I became. The more familiar. The more generous. Than I was disgusting.

    Mexican girl I dated when I was young. I would screw her on the street. In public buildings. She was mad after me. Then came the Epiphany phase. I met her years after and she was all Betabux betabux. I was a threat. But boy I could tell she wanted a good screw. Such strange shit.

    I forget what true admiration is. But, if they fuck you anytime anywhere maybe.
    Also, if they are women not bastardized Barb wire tough independent bitches.A woman that admires gives.

    Familiarity also breeds contempt. I dated and after a few months they treat me like shit. Back to Dread. Or vanish. Strange again. New set of rules.

    I have a simple test now with my wife. I start a fight. Or just piss her off. She always puts the brakes and stops me. She lets me know she respects me. She then wants to fuck…Hahaha. Try it guys. Not everyday of course.

  3. Those of you asking about game.

    Met an 87 year old farmer. Arguing with his wife. Hell of an argument. She stormed off.
    I asked him if the shit ever ends. He said:

    Boy set them rules from the first day. When you first say hello you better let that woman know how it’s gone be. It says so in the good book. I fucked up. Look at me now. Arguing and fussing 60 years later! You better let your woman know the rules or you hit the road.

    Now that’s game for you guys.

  4. “The beta can possibly become more alpha by being admired, respected, desired, felt addicted to, etc. but realistically, I don’t think many women do that for a beta husband/man.”

    Not possible for any woman to do so. By definition “beta” is never respected. That’s why we call them beta, now isn’t it?

    “or an alpha she effectively turned into a beta”

    Also not possible. That’s why we call them alpha. It is not possible for a man who runs his life to be manipulated by any woman.

    Genuine respect and admiration cannot be used in a frivolous masquerade to facilitate bribery. However, their faked substitutes can be as Dragonfly demonstrates.

  5. “The beta can possibly become more alpha”

    “an alpha she effectively turned into a beta”

    I, I, I, I, I, I, I’ve, I, I, I…

    Genuine masculinity is not dependent upon any woman who appoints herself to the defense of it.

  6. ““The beta can possibly become more alpha by being admired, respected, desired, felt addicted to, etc. but realistically, I don’t think many women do that for a beta husband/man.”

    All the binary responses to this proposition. You can’t turn a Beta into an Alpha. BULLSHIT! Alpha-Beta is on a continuum it is not either or.

    There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that a determined woman can and will increase the Alpha of her man by showing him respect and fucking him silly.

    My question is why is there such opposition to this proposition?

    Why are women seemingly completely opposed to the notion of even providing a false sense of respect and admiration?

    Why is it impossible for a woman to take one for the team and at least ACT with respect towards the husband she helped Beta?

    Why do men think that getting respect and admiration from a woman would not change him for the better?

    Why do prostitutes offer this exact service for money when wives could offer it for a better husband and a better life?

    The idea that a woman cannot respect a man who learns how to be Alpha is practically a Rollo maxim but I think it is flawed. EVERY man learns how to be Alpha at some point. They had interactions with women. Lots of people assume they were a “Natural” and that is why those interactions with women went well. But isn’t it possible it was those early positive interactions that nurtured and even created the “Natural.”

    On the nature/nurture debate, the male/female divide is a chasm but I suspect the Alpha/Beta divide in men is not such a hard gap to mind.

  7. And masculinity grows out of its own, complementing the feminine but never supplicating dependence upon the feminine.

  8. My question is why is there such opposition to this proposition?

    Unfortunately for the “masterbeta” reality is the opposition.

  9. I was not going to comment, but @bluepillprofessor if you think every man can be an Alpha then you are smoking the good stuff. You should meet my brother. Wife tells him when to brush his teeth. What clothes to wear. How fast to drive. They have not had sex in years. She is fat and repulsive good bless her heart ( so is he). But that coward brother of mine an Alpha? He let me get beat up by four dirty rednecks in a parking lot a few years ago. He ran after opening his dumb ass mouth. Alpha? I wish most of my family members were Alpha. Shit, I’m not even Alpha by far.

  10. This whole thing can be kind of compared to bicycle racing. A guy who used to race with us never kept up at really intense hammer time. He always got dropped and complained about himself for it. He was apparently trying hard but could never stay with the pack. He was capable but wasn’t training consistently or eating well. He asked everyone questions, TALKED techniques, diet, training, etc. and regularly complained about his performance. One day he asked me, “Man! how can you guys go 30 mph, I just cant seem to do it?

    The answer somehow popped into my head, “If you never go 30, you’ll never go 30”.

  11. “I’m coming to the suspicion that women’s revulsion towards Beta male psychology, personality and behaviors is an evolved instinct.

    “There is a female hindbrain, limbic sensitivity to Beta behavioral patterns. This leads me to believe that after a certain threshold of tolerance women’s perception of that Beta is set for her.”

    Right. You know all this, from your interactions with the HUS commentariat, and the Sunshine Mary blog You remember the discussions in which it was asserted that women could be sexually aroused by beta traits. You remember the assertions that female attraction triggers are malleable and that with effort, a woman can actually change what sexually arouses her. You remember those failures, do you not? You can see it right now at HUS, where Susan and her current commenters are stating outright that many men are not attractive to any women and there is not a damn thing those men can do about it. They are doomed to sexual failure and grinding involuntary celibacy their entire lives. If those men want sex, their only options are renting prostitutes and wanking to porn.

    And you remember at SSM’s the contentious discussions I engaged in, regarding how attraction cannot be “generated” from nothing; one cannot “create” attraction or sexual arousal from nothing. You do remember, don’t you, the arguments over whether there is some attraction there and it can be rekindled; but if attraction/arousal aren’t there in the beginning, then they will never be there?

    Those principles are at work here. The problem is that these women have to be encouraged to have sex with their beta husbands, because they aren’t sexually attracted to those men. They don’t want to have sex with those men. If they did, they’d be doing it instead of talking about it.

    Dragonfly is writing about this because of the single biggest problem in marriages today — most women are married to men who just don’t trip their triggers. Most women are married to men who they are not attracted to; or who are less attractive than the men those women used to have sex with before they got married.

  12. Respect = I am the only one you fuck .
    Admiration = you blow me dry all the time.
    Adore=anal sex.
    Appreciated=after I come, you’re OK with me falling asleep.
    Forgiving =if I cheat on you.
    Loyalty =you take me back after I cheated.

    come on fellow men , TELL me YOURS.
    I have yet to see ONE of you explain what he means by needing respect/admiration/appreciation from a woman ?
    I know ,,if you struggle with your answers ,, it means they mean nothing to you or to any woman .
    women themselves struggle finding answers because they know the answers are the above.

    “thus compliments and admiration are an alien concept to her”
    Rollo Tomassi.

  13. @dumbwhtboy

    “I was not going to comment, but @bluepillprofessor if you think every man can be an Alpha then you are smoking the good stuff….”

    I hope you are wrong. Hopefully every man is born alpha and that the beta we experience and see is the result of conditioning. Maybe alpha can be realized by men everywhere through developing themselves for the betterment of themselves and those around them rather than missing the opportunity by erroneously assuming alpha is a hoop to jump through to “get laid” or wishing alpha can some how be instilled by mothering.

  14. NBTM – nope, most people are born to follow, just a few to lead. Some followers can become good commanders and fulfill their leaders wish, but most just stay a part of the herd.

  15. Betas can become Alpha, Alphas can become Betas. Personality is malleable and Alpha is a mindset.

    However, expecting that a woman can (or will even try to) do it for a man she’s in an LTR with is like expecting that if you just ignore gravity hard enough you can fly without a plane. Expecting that a woman can get a guy you can “work on” and make him Alpha is as stupid as a guy getting a slightly overweight chick and thinking he can make her lose that weight and be hot. That ain’t how it works.

    It must come from his own internal motivations and decisions or it simply isn’t an Alpha mindset he’s fostering. Much like an alcoholic cannot overcome their addictions until they decide they want to, a Beta cannot give up being a Beta until he decides with everything in him that he wants to. Nobody can do it for him.

  16. I wonder if Beta behavior can ever be reclassified as pathological the way Alpha behavior is these days. It sure as hell should be, with the awful consequences it sets a man up for.

  17. I’ve seen man on a battle field. Guys in law enforcement. Sometimes they come of age under machine gun fire and they wake up and become fire breathing dragons. Awesome sight. Also, they will cower cry and or let you die. Another way to see ya know.
    Maybe all men can become Alpha ( the ideal) but that’s a state of mind. It sets you free. All you fear is gone and you walk with death. Some man can do it. Other die cowards. That’s what I saw.

  18. turning a beta into alpha mindset ?
    you can put all the lip stick on the pig`s lips and ………………..

  19. And to a simple guy like me, a coward is the equivalent cheap slutty woman. Once you go that way, it is a messed up road back. If you can make it. Sorry I’m not a good writer like you guys.

  20. @Mr T

    Then the entire change I’ve seen in myself has been imagined? The belief that I can actually walk the path that I’ve chosen is pure bullshit? I am forever the Beta I was when I was younger and there’s no hope of changing? That’s certainly news to me.

    If you want to resign yourself to an unalterable fate you can. I, for one, believe that I’m better than that and can rise above the piss poor hand I was dealt.

  21. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/elizabeth-plank-beyonce-flip-the-script_n_7026128.html

    The script of the above is founded upon the underlying subconscious realization that the feminine is subordinate to the masculine. Achieving masculine character, performance, and recognition is the goal for the feminine in this propaganda as it simultaneously shames and vilifies the masculine while women everywhere crave a masculine mate.

    This conundrum repeats over and over and over and over, many generations now.

    One million years + of evolved DNA cannot be corrupted by pop culture bullshit, but the emotions of people everywhere can be corrupted and manipulated by power seekers.

  22. DeNihilist

    “…most people are born to follow, just a few to lead. Some followers can become good commanders and fulfill their leaders wish, but most just stay a part of the herd.”

    I must agree, that is the net result.

  23. @ Blue Pill Prof:

    “My question is why is there such opposition to this proposition?

    Why are women seemingly completely opposed to the notion of even providing a false sense of respect and admiration?

    Why is it impossible for a woman to take one for the team and at least ACT with respect towards the husband she helped Beta?

    Why do men think that getting respect and admiration from a woman would not change him for the better?”
    ________

    You know the answer, Perfesser. These women’s husbands don’t arouse them. There’s no sexual attraction from her to him.

  24. I enjoy your blog. It takes me some time to understand it, but it is very educative for me. You put the things I think in my head in great paragraphs.

    Most of you guys commenting are very educated. It requires effort but I learn great things here. I hope it is fine if I runy keyboard again.

  25. @Deti
    ” The problem is that these women have to be encouraged to have sex with their beta husbands, because they aren’t sexually attracted to those men. They don’t want to have sex with those men. If they did, they’d be doing it instead of talking about it. ”

    I don’t necessarily agree. In many cases, certainly the problem is that the woman does not find the man attractive. In other cases it is that she does not find his behavior attractive and is asserting control in one of the major ways she can – by denying him sex. In still other cases, the problem is the woman’s perception of what her role is.

    Her “role” as the girlfriend was to “land the husband.” She prioritizes him, attends to his needs, laughs at his jokes, provides him with admiration and validation….because she wants to show him that she would make him a good wife. Once she is married, though, her role changes. She no longer needs to impress him. She has him already. And once she celebrates her honeymoon, the process of hedonic adaptation begins, wherein she ceases to appreciate what she already has. Suddenly new priorities take the place of old ones – and the personality changes. This is true even more so once children are born – the role changes. It isn’t necessarily that she doesn’t WANT to have sex, but rather that she is totally caught up in other priorities that she feels are more important, due to an adherence to roles (and she feels that the man should feel the same way, if only he would obey his roles as she does).

    This is why so many women prioritize laundry over sex, when they enjoy sex and do not enjoy laundry. Why so many women accuse men of being immature when they call women out over this. I, for one, appreciate blogs like SSM, where WOMEN tell other women to prioritize being a WIFE rather than a mother, worker, friend, and facebook enthusiast. In cases where there is no attraction to begin with, I agree with you. But in (most?) others, what is needed is a re-definition of roles and priorities.

  26. @ Jeremy:

    Whether she has a lack of physical attraction or is put off by his conduct (usually way, waaaay too much beta), the result is still a lack of sexual arousal. So any way you slice it or whatever labels you affix to it, it is still lack of sexual arousal — an arousal she had for more attractive, better, more alpha, hotter men she had sex with before she married her husband.

    “It isn’t necessarily that she doesn’t WANT to have sex, but rather that she is totally caught up in other priorities that she feels are more important, due to an adherence to roles (and she feels that the man should feel the same way, if only he would obey his roles as she does).”

    I disagree. The medium is the message. She is clearly communicating lack of sexual interest by prioritizing everything before it. If her husband did sexually arouse her, she’d prioritize sex.

    A woman who wants to have sex with a man will find a way to have sex with him. Remember: That wife who is prioritizing laundry and the daughter’s piano lessons and the son’s soccer practice over her husband’s sexual needs is the same carefree single coed who was going home with Alpha McGorgeous and Harley McBadboy, and carrying her panties home in her purse on the Walks of Shame the following morning.

  27. “Remember: That wife who is prioritizing laundry and the daughter’s piano lessons and the son’s soccer practice over her husband’s sexual needs is the same carefree single coed who was going home with Alpha McGorgeous and Harley McBadboy, and carrying her panties home in her purse on the Walks of Shame the following morning.”

    Nope. She may have been that woman, but now her role has changed…and so have her priorities.

    You wrote that if she wanted to have sex, she would. I disagree (in many cases). Tell me, if she wanted to go to the gym, would she necessarily, or would she perhaps lack the time? If she loves to eat rack of lamb, would she? Or might she accept frozen chicken because she has no time (or feels that she doesn’t). If she loves to watch a certain show on tv, will she necessarily? Or might she have to miss it. It all depends on her priorities – what she feels her role demands of her.

    This is difficult for most men to understand, because we prioritize our roles less than our own desires (in general). If we want to watch baseball, we’ll usually find a way to do it, and won’t find ourselves not enjoying that show because we feel guilty about not doing something else. Many women are different.

    Most women who don’t prioritize sex do it because the feel TOO comfortable in their relationship (contrary to the blue pill advice that their husbands must not be putting in enough effort). They don’t truly believe their husbands would leave them over the issue…and in fact, most don’t. Thus, in their security, they prioritize other things.

    The only way they will understand is if other women tell them that their behavior endangers their marriage (assuming we are talking about women who care about their marriages). GWDFT’s blog is great because it presents a female perspective on men which is realistic, instead of women projecting their own desires/priorities on men and telling men that they would believe them if they were mature.

    1. @jeremy, the problem with your prioritizations perspective can be summed up in 4 words; Fifty Shades of Grey.

      The books and movie didn’t become multi-million dollar mommy-porn because wives and moms prioritized reading and watching it above piano lessons for the kids or hitting the gym.

  28. if you are in a beta marriage/relationship and want to change to alpha you have to change the alpha widow too,

    never underestimate women`s ultra sensitive beta detector sensors to notice the change.

    Dragonfly`s motives are suspicious and questionable .
    she is trying to teach women (alpha women) something they already know , she should call the spade a spade .
    what she (and I am sure she knows) is teaching works with virgins not with alpha widows who are the 99%.

  29. Jeremy
    “Her “role” as the girlfriend was to “land the husband.” She prioritizes him, attends to his needs, laughs at his jokes, provides him with admiration and validation….because she wants to show him that she would make him a good wife. Once she is married, though, her role changes. She no longer needs to impress him. She has him already. And once she celebrates her honeymoon, the process of hedonic adaptation begins, wherein she ceases to appreciate what she already has. Suddenly new priorities take the place of old ones – and the personality changes. This is true even more so once children are born – the role changes.”

    This is truth.

  30. Deti
    “I disagree. The medium is the message. She is clearly communicating lack of sexual interest by prioritizing everything before it. If her husband did sexually arouse her, she’d prioritize sex.”

    This is also truth. The difference is her trying to place her husband into a beta (acceptable role) for her new mindset (children first… sleep first…). If he stays in frame, he won’t settle for it, but many men don’t realize what’s happening to them more than likely, they allow themselves to get placed into a beta role. Slowly, but surely, she starts to “fall out of love” with him – it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  31. I know Rollo wrote something on this – on women desiring “the man you used to be” – when a husband allows himself to become beta in the marriage. Sorry, Rollo, not sure where to find it.

  32. “Remember: That wife who is prioritizing laundry and the daughter’s piano lessons and the son’s soccer practice over her husband’s sexual needs is the same carefree single coed who was going home with Alpha McGorgeous and Harley McBadboy, and carrying her panties home in her purse on the Walks of Shame the following morning.”

    Nope. She may have been that woman, but now her role has changed…and so have her priorities.

    UNLESS IF GEORGE CLONEY SHOWED UP AT THE LAUNDRY WHILE HUBBY IS WATCHING THE GAME

  33. The role of wive as an asexual, parasitic, hag is defined externally to the woman. If the culture defined wife as sexually giving, supportive, and appreciative then women would play that role.

    To be a modern woman who respects and appreciates a man’s provisioning and protection, and demonstrates that by being sexually giving is a prostitute both in function and in economic fact. To avoid the role of prostitute the wife must be a selfish prude.

    In today’s society prostitutes can offer the well played fantasy of appreciation and adoration of the man because their livelihoods depend on it. No such circumstance exists for the wife. In fact the wife role is one of taking, nothing is given to the man. To suggest mutual reciprocal obligations is one short step from negotiating a price.

    I think this means until the current role of wife is thoroughly discredited then the only option is a state of perpetual qualification as girlfriend. That serious but not quite ready to commit to her, even though you want to, you can’t because it’s complicated stage now has to managed as an end state LTR in lieu of marriage.

  34. @Rollo, I disagree.

    50 Shades of Grey and that genre appeal to women’s dopaminergic system. Their desire for novelty, romance, danger. There are women whose personalities predispose them to dopamine-addiction. Such women make exciting girlfriends, but lousy wives. The excitement phase of a new relationship is the one where a woman might do what Deti suggests. But once dopamine wears off, she will either settle down into a non-dopaminergic relationship, or else move on to the next man.

    To those who prioritize marriage and have no desire to move on to the next man, their serotonergic system kicks in (see the work of Helen Fisher for more on this). Totally different system, totally different priorities.

    Not to say that married women don’t still crave a hit of dopamine (hence 50 shades, etc), but that they are unlikely to get it from their husbands, who have become familiar to them already. The fact that women may be attracted to novelty does not help the sexless husband – he will never be novel to her again. He needs to work with what he has, and with the woman he has. If she is a role-prioritizer (as so many are), she needs to both see sex as a priority in her role, and she also has to WANT to have it. If we only focus on getting her to want it (by exercising, dispaying high value, etc), we ignore the role that “role” plays in most women’s lives. They adopt their priorities from their surroundings – family members when young, society/friends when older. If other women teach them the right way to behave, many will behave. If they are surrounded by super-moms and divorce-porn, that is the role many will adopt.

  35. WARNING WARNING

    ” That wife who is prioritizing laundry and the daughter’s piano lessons and the son’s soccer practice over her husband’s sexual needs ”

    you are/were plan B .
    prioritizing = finding reasons for not fucking you.
    synonyms
    not in to you , get lost , go jerk off ,never were attracted to you dip stick.

  36. @not born

    “Hopefully every man is born alpha and that the beta we experience and see is the result of conditioning. ”

    I think it’s simpler than that in many cases. I think it’s just like a gun-shy bird dog. Exposure to the bang bang too early, without the right context, without the mentor or other construct there to comfort and explain (or soothe in the dog’s case).. can ruin it for life.

    The gun, or the bang of lifelong betadome is …. rejection.

    I’ve said it before.. once Rollo put into perspective the absurdity of the lengths we will go to to avoid it, I realized how pathetic it is to even fear it, or dwell on it in any way.. and I realized 90% of my regrets in life came from this, and not just with women, either.

    Discomfort caused by rejection without understanding can make a man slip right into the BP mindset and stay there forever, among many other absurdities, as Rollo points out.

    1. There are women whose personalities predispose them to dopamine-addiction.

      $94.7M opening weekend. Set the record for all time presale tickets on Fandango. Still on the NYT best seller list after 4 years.

      I’ll grant that familiarity and comfort are anti-seductive, but that’s an awful lot of personalities predisposed.

    2. @tufflove being rejected is alpha because it’s the unknown you learn.
      @Not Born This Morning
      I love biking

  37. @jeremy

    There are women whose personalities predispose them to dopamine-addiction.

    AWALT.

    You’re trying to conjure the myth of the Quality Woman ™. Stop that.

    AWALT.

    1. @Sun, I don’t think Jeremy is going the Quality Woman route, so much as he expects personal responsibility from women with regard to their sexuality.

      It’s easy to want to give women the benefit of the doubt that they are rational agents who should be able to come to a prioritization agreement for sexual service with their husbands. Unfortunately the impetus to genuinely desire to fuck their husbands is found in biology not rationality.

  38. Jeremy, any woman who desires a man, particularly because of the culture, not in spite of it, is going to have sex with that man. They make male scheming for female attention, in comparison, seem like toddlers trying bang a baseball off a tee, while they’re Bryce Harper in BP.

    You’re argument is a justifying, backhanded nod to feminist complaints that if there’s anything wrong with a woman, it’s the fault of social (patriarchal) conformity expectations; why she’s just a *victim* of all these meany anti-woman constraints.

    That’s why there are so many women out here who loathe contact with their husbands. Before their SMP declined they had sex with much more appealing men, and now they’re like dry drunks who can’t even break their alcohol fast with a quick pint from the convenience store. And whom do they blame? Their Plan B men.

    And this doesn’t go away as women age; it accelerates. Options, or lack of options, explains this phenomenon, not ads for Tide or supermom fairy tales or Leave it to Beaver reruns. A 40 something woman who is attracted to a man, today, is sexually voracious. If she’s attracted to a man, they’ll want to fuck him the day she serves him papers.

  39. why would a woman put her priority on laundry or nursing a baby over a ten minutes of fucking ? or 5 minutes ?

    boy , if she can`t spare you 10 minutes of respect/fucking ,,,well ,, you know.

  40. I know a married woman, a total knockout, who has twice-monthly duty sex (one position, she uses a vibrator simultaneously) with her Good Man husband. She’s a 9, he’s a 6, on looks anyway. (He makes a good living.) She runs her own restaurant, does crossfit and teaches yoga 10x a week total on top of that schedule. Two children at home in ADDITION. When she tried to trade out and up, and added ANOTHER scheduled task to her day, she wanted it twice daily.

    The days of marrying a woman who isn’t sexually attracted to man, and the end result not being misery, are over. The culture is too sexualized, the worshiping of sexual power is too embedded. The culture shames a woman for not having sex, not having it instead of doing the laundry.

    (I know very, very few women who cast the slightest glance at the domestic arts, and perform them as well as men, incidentally. Perhaps you do.)

  41. @ Jeremy:

    “You wrote that if she wanted to have sex, she would. I disagree (in many cases). Tell me, if she wanted to go to the gym, would she necessarily, or would she perhaps lack the time? If she loves to eat rack of lamb, would she? Or might she accept frozen chicken because she has no time (or feels that she doesn’t). If she loves to watch a certain show on tv, will she necessarily? Or might she have to miss it. It all depends on her priorities – what she feels her role demands of her.”

    I disagree. People make time for what’s important to them. People pursue what they love. If sex is important to them, they make time for it. And if wifey is married to a George Clooney clone, you bet your ass she’ll be making time for sex with him.

    Most women aren’t married to George Clooney or Brad Pitt. They’re married to Jack Black, or Steve Buscemi, or Jonah Hill, or Seth Rogen, or DJ Qualls, or Leonard Hofstadter (Big Bang Theory) or Wilford Brimley.

    Most women do not make time for sex with their husbands because they aren’t as attracted to their husbands as the men they used to sleep with. And, they don’t make time for these men because they know they don’t have to — Jack, Steve, Jonah and Seth will be there if they fuck once a day or once a year.

  42. And in most cases, she married Seth Rogen, but only after Brad and George and Channing Tatum and about five more good looking men got to take their turns with her.

  43. “I disagree. People make time for what’s important to them. People pursue what they love. If sex is important to them, they make time for it.” Truth

    1. Was thinking of killing myself as a beta this helped for some reason
      She would defend herself, saying that love, no matter what else it might be, was a natural talent. She would say: You are either born knowing how, or you never know.
      Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, Love in the Time of Cholera
      He was still too young to know that the heart’s memory eliminates the bad and magnifies the good, and that thanks to this artifice we manage to endure the burden of the past. But when he stood at the railing of the ship… only then did he understand to what extent he had been an easy vicitim to the charitible deceptions of nostalgia.
      Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez
      Together they had overcome the daily incomprehension, the instantaneous hatred, the reciprocal nastiness, and fabulous flashes of glory in the conjugal conspiracy. It was time when they both loved each other best, without hurry or excess, when both were most conscious of and grateful for their incredible victories over adversity. Life would still present them with other moral trials, of course, but that no longer mattered: they were on the other shore.
      Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, Love in the Time of Cholera
      Think of love as a state of grace; not the means to anything but the alpha and omega, an end in itself.
      Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez
      Each man is master of his own death, and all that we can do when the time comes is to help him die without fear of pain.
      Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez

  44. I’m going to medical school soon but I had a question that some people in the crowd might be able to touch on:

    Can someone explain to me why I see so many guys in medical school, residents, and doctors with ugly girls??? I swear I see either ugly wives or ugly brides.

    Does anyone else notice this….?

    I just don’t want the girl situation to be slim. My guess is that most of these guys don’t have game and they’re nerdy…which isn’t the case so much for me but idk

  45. @Rollo

    Claiming that only a portion of the female population is dopamine addicted seems like trying to claim a large part isn’t. Smells like a move towards “A Quality Woman ™ isn’t like that” to me. Of course it’s a matter of how you look at it, I suppose.

  46. Will, lighten up. If you like women and know how they think, the *worst* thing for your med school obligations is acting on that knowledge. You need to go into monk mode for three years.

    Pre-meds have all of the social skills of four year-olds in your average Manhattan private pre-school (tuition: less than a state school med school).

    Just do your work and let the girls come to you. Read blogs like this for diversion, when your mind is fried. Absorb the info, act on the info, when it’s appropriate. Your job now is to clear the med school hurdle.

  47. In many foreign cultures, female respect for men is the cultural and inculcated default. Spend time with some of them and you will be unable to go back to American women.

    Rollo, I apologize for the long quote that follows. But’s its very apropos and worth the read:

    “Everything about woman is a riddle, and everything about woman has one solution: that is pregnancy. Man is for woman a means: the end is always the child. But what is woman for man?

    “A real man wants two things: danger and play. Therefore he wants woman as the most dangerous plaything. Man should be educated for war, and woman for the recreation of the warrior; all else is folly. The warrior does not like all-too-sweet fruit; therefore he likes woman: even the sweetest woman is bitter. Woman understands children better than man does, but man is more childlike than woman.

    “In a real man a child is hidden—and wants to play. Go to it, women, discover the child in man! Let woman be a plaything, pure and fine, like a gem, irradiated by the virtues of a world that has not yet arrived. Let the radiance of a star shine through your love! Let your hope be: May I give birth to the overman!

    “Let there be courage in your love. With your love you should proceed toward him who arouses fear in you. Let your honor be in your love. Little does woman understand of honor otherwise. But let this be your honor: always to love more than you are loved, and never to be second.

    “Let man fear woman when she loves: then she makes any sacrifice, and everything else seems without value to her. Let man fear woman when she hates: for deep down in his soul man is merely evil, while woman is bad. Whom does woman hate most? Thus spoke the iron to the magnet: ‘I hate you most because you attract, but are not strong enough to pull me to you.’

    “The happiness of man is: I will. The happiness of woman is: he wills. ‘Behold, just now the world became perfect’—thus thinks every woman when she obeys out of entire love. And woman must obey and find a depth for her surface. Surface is the disposition of woman: a mobile, stormy film over shallow water. Man’s disposition, however, is deep; his river roars in subterranean caves: woman feels his strength but does not comprehend it.

    “Then the little old woman answered me: ‘Many fine things has Zarathustra said, especially for those who are young enough for them. It is strange: Zarathustra knows women little, and yet he is right about them. Is this because nothing is impossible with woman? And now, as a token of gratitude, accept a little truth. After all, I am old enough for it. Wrap it up and hold your hand over its mouth: else it will cry overloudly, this little truth.’

    “Then I said: ‘Woman, give me your little truth.’”

    And thus spoke the little old woman:

    “‘You are going to women? Do not forget the whip’ ”

    Thus spoke Zarathustra.

  48. “I find this interesting because in other cultures it’s very different.”

    Yeeeaaah. I actually found this one of the least convincing posts. I’m not convinced that what’s written really figures out how admiration and respect correlate with anything else. We know one thing: the condition of the married, sexless “beta” is one of lacking admiration and respect. I can’t really speak to this because I’ve never been married. But that seems more like the very definition of “beta,” as people constantly talk about it here, than a new insight.

    I think the idea that women are somehow inherently reluctant to give admiration and respect to men is very culturally specific, and worse, not really true even of most white American girls I’ve interacted with. Flipping back over things mentally, I can say girls have handed out compliments, genuine compliments, to me all the time, usually leading me to assume that they were engaged in a form of flirtation. In several instances that come to mind they were hot and I was even kind of baffled as to why they were doing it. Did this have anything to do with me being “beta” or “alpha”? No, most of these situations were not ones where I was being “alpha” in any meaningful sense. I think we may have this all backwards. There isn’t some mystical alpha behavior that triggers a woman’s sexual lust and gets her to start dishing out random compliments. Rather, a woman will admire something about a man, for whatever obvious reasons that something is admirable, and that will indeed be what turns her on—or at least draws her attraction and interest. Chances are if she doesn’t admire you in this genuine, reflective sense, her attraction will be minimal or nonexistent.

    The idea that daughters don’t reflexively respect their fathers, unless they are told to, strikes me as almost bizarrely wrong. Again, this causes me to infer that people out there have seen different things, and this reflects, probably, just an extreme of cultural degeneracy that should not be the basis for dramatic inferences about human nature.

    So that’s one form of contingency…the other form I have to comment on too, although it is also depressing. My personal experience just doesn’t match the idea that women are somehow tight-fisted with admiration or respect for men. Any girl that has come anywhere near to flirting with me has dished that stuff out reflexively.

    Look, you can lose a girl’s admiration in an LTR (or marriage, I assume without any experience with it). But this likely stems from familiarity, or from changes in you. Don’t go soft, and don’t become over-familiar with your woman.

    We can’t leave out of the picture that different men are worthy of different levels of admiration.

    If you’re really dealing with girls that seem unable to show any genuine respect or admiration, for you or even for men in general, stay the hell away because those tight-fisted cuntresses are not attracted to you or they are damaged in general.

  49. @Sun Wukong

    “However, expecting that a woman can (or will even try to) do it for a man she’s in an LTR with is like expecting that if you just ignore gravity hard enough you can fly without a plane. Expecting that a woman can get a guy you can “work on” and make him Alpha is as stupid as a guy getting a slightly overweight chick and thinking he can make her lose that weight and be hot. That ain’t how it works.”

    Wrong. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Confidence is experiential. Having a woman makes a man more confident. Nothing succeeds like success. Just actually fucking a girl will make you more confident. There is literally no comparison to the merely biological fact of body weight. In fact even on that, the incentive effect of being in a relationship has usually forced me to be at least slightly better looking than I would have been otherwise, just because now I know someone is looking.

  50. The thing that hurts most men is the transformation. Most married men that are now sexless were once dating a slimer, fitter version of the woman sitting on the couch and drinking Pepsi. What happened?
    She was a cuter, younger version that occasionally enjoyed good sex. How come not now? Why must he go in the other room to masturbate to internet porn? And how come she never never wants it? He works hard. He sacrifices. He does everything. Wtf?

  51. @Rollo

    I think you have put up a lot of posts regarding the early stages (spinning plates) and also the other end (marriage) and how to properly keep frame/run game in those situations in terms of male/female dynamics.

    What we need is more of the transition phase, the issue I have is if females have a dualistic mating strategy (AF short term and BB longterm) that means when you are spinning plates AF is obv the best strategy but what happens when you want to start a family? You have even mentioned that females do not want AF and BB in one male which makes it more confusing, there was some discussion on recruiting early when females are younger and grooming them from LTR but it wasn’t discussed further.

    At this point my strategy is to stay alpha while spinning plates and then when I want make one an LTR and just stay Alpha, seems like the most logical way, but will this work when females only want Alpha for short term and BB to settle down with? Obv being BB at any point with a female is not an option.

  52. One thing that’s missing from this discussion is the very different nature of female sexual arousal and attraction from men’s. Women are omnivores but with much lower sex interest in general, while men are strictly interested in targets within their orientation and much more amped up about it most of the time (except around ovulation where women start to approach the level of sex drive men have). Numerous studies have shown that women get aroused by watching sex between a man and a woman, two women, two men and even scenes of animal sex. Not so for men – if straight we only get turned on by images of hetero sex between humans.

    This is why bisexuality and homosexuality in women is very different from how it works with men. Women’s sexuality is far more plastic and variegated – which is good for men if you get that. That’s why at 52 I can still turn on a young hottie but some 52 yr old woman has no chance on earth of ever getting me hard. It’s also true that their is a huge difference between the intensity of the sex drive for men and women and this intensity is probably a factor in why men’s sexual interests are more focused.

    So the first thing men need to do is to stop projecting our sexuality onto women and deal with reality. Rollo highlights a very important aspect of all this when he describes how hypergamy asserts itself no matter what and that a woman will take for granted what she has and still crave that fantasy again. I’d like to add to that thought, as I think that SMV matters a lot here. In my case, my ex was so hot that I think no matter what I did, she’d start looking for the next “one”, and because of her SMV, society gave her tons of opps and permission to do so (you go gurl!). So context matters greatly I think.

    What’s a man to do? Well one thing that screams at me as how backwards men are at selection if what Rollo describes is correct. By us competing to “win” the highest SMV women, we ensure that we are with women who are not going to be looking up at us. If I’m an 8 – I chase 10s. Not 6’s. But in reality, would I not have been better off with a 6 who thought she could likely never to better than me rather than marrying the prom/homecoming queen as I did? Who would constantly have high value men throwing themselves at her at least for her pre-wall years?

    Should men aim down so they have women who willingly submit to their dominance? Such women might actually be motivated to keep their man. As for telling women that they “should” have sex with their husbands, whether coming from GirlWithDragonTatoo (a good Christian wife wearing yoga pants so her ass can be oggled at by other men every time she steps out of the house – but hey, it’s not hypergamous sluttery when she does it) or Rollo is telling them, it will have no effect. A women is either sexually interested in you or not – but they do get there in ways far different from how men get there.

    What I’ve learned about female arousal works for short term mating selection, so I capitalize on it for that. Women need to be relaxed, feel safe, be giggly etc to get turned on. They also respond to subtle touch, tone of voice, tempo of speech – and boom, if they are going to respond – they do. The ones who don’t, I just next them. Once there, with today’s values and culture, getting them into the sack once aroused is a matter of logistics and circumstances, not resistance (if she’s with a group of friends, she might not leave with you etc).

    I’m starting to realize that in ltr/marriage selection should be far different for men than what they use for short term mate selection. We should have a dualistic mating strategy, just like women do. I think the new playbook for men should look like this.

    1. Develop yourself and your value during your young adult years. Realize that at 21 you are pretty low value, even if you do bring some Alphaness, you still have a long ways to go to realize your full SMV. This time of life is when men should be building their independent, pre-marriage wealth. It’s also a time for casual dating, probably the best path for guys at this stage is to drop down a couple of SMV notches and to have a few happy – if chubby – sex buddies so you get some fun in with low overhead and drama, and also to learn about sex and get comfortable with it. But other than that, don’t chase hard and don’t live with a woman or even do serious LTRs – you will sidetrack your value-building phase of life, which you only get to do once. This needs to be drummed into men. The biggest mistake I ever made was getting focused on a woman and marriage way too young. I could have had a house and 100k in the bank by the time I was 30, no sweat without the woman. And imagine what my choices would have been then? At 30? Just breaking into 6 figure earning? I was split up with my ex by 30 so I had some taste of it, but I was so Blue Pill that even that I didn’t capitalize on anywhere near to the extent that I could have.

    There were also many high-value women who swear off divorced men with kids. As one woman told me, “No matter what, I’ll never be the most important thing in your life, your daughter will be.” To which I responded, “Isn’t that a good thing?” This was the one who liked to be raped, and objected when I wouldn’t comply back when I was a “good man”. If only she was here now…

    2. Mid twenties to late 30s. – Be the cock carousel. Consolidate the gains you are making in your career and financially. Develop yourself in the sense of where you want to live, your hobbies, your home, your beliefs – frame out an entire life that you enjoy living in and you maintain strongly. And game hot young women to your hearts content. Get as much nubile, high quality mogambo as you can. Always be spinning plates and avoid LTRs.

    3. At 40, find a young women who you are more attractive than, smarter than and who is actually willing to play a complementary role to a man. Make sure she adores you and is eager to step into your frame.. She only needs to be attractive enough for you to enjoy fucking, and someone you respect and enjoy being around, but you should not pine for her when she isn’t around. She should have a low “N”, not be a career type and in fact, not even be that smart. She should regularly show loyalty and consideration and she should understand that in your “courtship” what’s really going on is you are evaluating how well she treats you, and her fitness to be the mother to your children. The dynamic should be that she’s trying to “win” you. If not, move on to a woman where that is the dynamic.

    4. Don’t be faithful but don’t have a serious love affair with another woman either (like jumping from the frying pan into the fire). Keeping plates spinning while married, which will keep the wife on her toes and from looking elsewhere as she’s going to be worried about keeping you. It’s also the natural state for men – acquire pussy is the prime directive, so we should not deny our nature. A submissive women will pretend you aren’t doing or forgive you. Not so with most other women. And you will be much happier as men crave variety. This is a new “truth” that I’ve only recently accepted about myself. Not only are women utterly replaceable but I actually crave variety, not matter what. Even with a 10 at home. so we should stop lying to ourselves. We are programmed to spread our seed far and wide, let’s just stop being so goddamned moralistic about it all. But the other side is to not confuse this with love. And until you have really choked down the Red Pill, you can’t really just do casual sex. I now can finally do it and it’s so liberating, my only regret is that I didn’t learn this younger.

    Smart women with blogs that boss men and women around and preach – run from them like the plague in terms of LTR/marriage. Fuck them for sure, but they are only good for a pump and dump. Essentially, what I’m saying here is that the “strong, independent woman” is the opposite of what you want in a partner. Instead, you want a woman who will actually submit to your dominance. GirlWithDragons is funny though – she thinks she can manipulate weak men into being dominant by nagging them and turn ruined women into great wives by hectoring them. Lol. really, lo-fuckng-l. She’s coming up on the Wall though, I bet Epiphany is right around the corner. She also might consider that “alphaing” the son is the Dad’s job, not her’s – defacto anything she teaches her son about being a man is demonstrating female imperatives – “I need you to become alpha so you can manage a woman”. What she could do is demonstrate submission to her husband though – that will teach her son something. But I just don’t think that’s how it goes around the GWDT household. I’d love to be a fly on the wall though and watch what pretending to be submissive looks like. It should be funny. And get that if you were submissive, GWDT, you wouldn’t be here or on your blog. It’s axiomatic that you are dominant. And guys, the last thing on earth you want to do is marry an alpha woman – that is if you actually like owning your own cock.

    As for whether “alpha” can be taught, well the first thing we need to do to have this conversation is define “alpha”. And that hasn’t been done well in the ‘sphere. We know from the origin of the word that it means the dominant male in a group, in animal groups (human included). So let just stick with that.

    My dominance is natural and instinctive – I have to fight it from coming up. If I was taught that, well it happened very young because I’ve always been aggressive and assertive and dominant. Do I think I could teach submissive man to be dominant? Nope. Can I teach someone to be brave in a fight? Uh, no. I grew up fighting a lot and at a certain point you either cave in and just take it or get angry and fight back. For people not familiar with physical violence up close and personal the way I am, suffice it to say this. There are really two kinds of fighters in this world and it gets decided when someone gets punched in the face hard. You either fall down crying or get angry and fight back hard. 90% or more of most men (and almost all women) fall to the ground screaming and begging for mercy when punched in the face hard. 10% (including me) get insanely outraged and fly into a fury. I still may not win, but it’s terrifying to watch. Anyone here who’s done a lot of fighting knows what I mean.

    Most men are pussies. I don’t care if pussies don’t get laid, fyi, they don’t deserve it. I’m not. And women notice that. That dominance was hard won in beating and through standing up in many situations when it was probably not the smartest thing to do. There are costs and payoffs for being alpha – and it includes maybe losing a fight or looking the fool or getting carried away or being an asshole – and most men are too pussfied to do so. Long before feminism this was true. So I’m not sure what can be “taught’ with respect to being dominant.

    Could a man learn some game, get in shape, buy nicer clothes, go to the right environments etc – yes. Does that increase his “alpha” – like I said it depends how you define the word.

    Here’s how I see all this semantically.

    Alpha = Dominance – and that dominance is assented to by those around you. I don’t think this can be taught. I think some men, particularly young PUAs miss this – acting like an asshole isn’t enough. The people around you have to submit to your dominance. What does it look like? You lead and frame the group discussion. People defer to you, look to you for answers, follow you when you suggest going somewhere. You know it when you see it, and for me, this how I define alpha. And of course the reason this works is because it’s a fitness signal to women, leveraging other’s assessments of you.

    Blue Pill = The set of ideas that men internalize about women and intersexual dynamics which are informed by female imperatives. Men can learn about these ideas intellectually, but actually changing these beliefs and behavior is quite hard. Most men don’t and I think it’s fair to say that most men can’t as it’s very hard to do.

    Red Pill = The set of ideas that a man can adopt which put him and his desires first versus the roles he’s supposed to be playing for others. Some men have this naturally, but it’s rare. I think that many people call this “alpha” but to me it has nothing to do with dominance being granted to you by the group. The Red Pill is an individual ideology, not a social one. Its essentially hedonism (not nihilsm) or applied humanism – dominant or passive has nothing to do with it. This is the “giving zero fucks” bit of the reprogramming from the Blue Pill. In a way, it’s really just unleashing the self-interest I’ve been suppressing and I think this way of being emerges naturally after one sees the Blue Pill set of ideas for what the are – the terms of our self-enslavement.

    Game = Optimization of one’s behavior in the sexual marketplace to achieve your objectives. Disposing of Blue Pill beliefs is part of the necessary mindset change to actually see the game for what it is, but one does not have to be alpha to use game to increase one’s chances of getting laid. Sure, having alpha dominance will help your game tremendously but game is not just about that.

    Sexual Market Value = Your target’s of sexual interest ranking of you. It can change, I’ve had women see me as more handsome after getting to know me, etc (women almost always think of me as taller and when they realize I’m 5’8″ are always shocked – dominance makes up for a lot). But you can change your sexual market value without being alpha. Looks, physique, dress, and the environments you put yourself in – all these can change SMV. I think a guy who’s a 6 on attraction but is dominant can pull an 8 – perhaps with me I was a short 8, with dominance, so I pulled some 10s. But one’s “alphaness” is only part of what determines my SMV. And it’s all relative too, so your opportunities for mating if you are a 6 will be very different for you are at the gym or at the library, yes?

    I’m just trying to synthesize all this into a concrete set of recos for how men should organize their lives, I realize I’m just regurgitating much of what Rollo says more eloquently. But I think it’s very helpful to try and state it all coherently. I so wish someone had sat me down when I was say 15 and explained all this to me and gave me a plan for how to optimize my life. Instead, I was handed a plan designed for misery. Sigh…

  53. Bromeo,

    Rollo never was and never will be prescriptive. It is not his style and it is a losing proposition. He can’t write a prescription specifically for you and your situation.

    Despite Athol Kay’s succumbing to the $ imperative and now dispenses purple pill advice, his vintage stuff > 3 years old is still good stuff for LTR and married man game. He distilled red pill truths and applied them to married man game over many years of “research”.

    The moment you COMMIT you are Beta. And she needs Beta (it is for the children). Even though a man can’t be both alpha and beta blended perfectly, the female hindbrain demands you be to some degree beta after you commit. Otherwise all you remain is an alpha asshole. Read up on the difference between a shit test and a comfort test. If you can’t give comfort in a beta fashion, your woman won’t trust you and you are in for a wold of hurt. She will next you.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/value-shit-tests-vs-comfort-shit-tests/

    BB is necessary in a LTR. Just don’t ever give up the alpha frame.

    http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/07/why-being-asshole-alpha-works-for-about-six-months/

  54. @Lucien

    What you’re referring to reinforces already existing confidence and also applies more to a guy still playing the field. In an LTR with a Beta that pretty much lacks it compliments like that aren’t going to build an Alpha. Further, you’re not going to get them out of her. Ever. Certainly not in any genuine capacity that he’ll believe, at any rate.

  55. @Glenn especially, but to all of you

    Feel free to flame my comment. Real “alphas” are out there banging broads, taking charge, doing things. They agree not stroking their old men egos on the internet….P.S. you ain’t got nothing on a hot 21 year old guy. He got the world. At your age you may be in shape but you don’t arouse a woman like a young buck. How deluded are you?

    I understand all of us reading and posting here are “betas” trying to transition, but brother please. If you have to brag on the internet about your “hotness” or “plates”.
    Any guy spinning photo plates, building wealth, and enjoying life barely has time to sleep not post conquests on a comment board.

    Just saying.

    1. Any guy spinning photo plates, building wealth, and enjoying life barely has time to sleep not post conquests on a comment board.

      Typed the guy who took the time to create multiple usernames and email addresses (fghjjjnnj@gmail.com, mmm, creative)

  56. @Rollo

    Didn’t you know that 100% of Alphas are uneducated backwards hat bros with no capacity for anything but banging chicks and doing keg stands? Closest they ever come to a computer is a couple rounds of the latest Call of Duty, and even then it’s only because it’s cool.

  57. When I said a page back one should dump any women lacking admiration of course I didn’t talk about making demands or even dread game, you can’t talk about that at all. I was talking about pure action. For me the lack of admiration is just the sign it’s over and time to go for the next.

    @dragonfly:
    There is not much disagreement between us to keep the discussion running. Regarding the idea of how to educate a son I’d want to add how important it also is to train a son all the ways of manipulation women do without realizing. In my upbringing I had a lot admiration from my mother and my sisters and I still get it today from almost any women I talk to more seriously than usual small talk. But at the same time my mother and my sisters of course tried everything in their books to control me. I always instinctively knew and had really deep blockades to fail (!) shit tests. What brought me down was when my BP-idealisms took over when I started dealing with girlfriends. I somehow thought they should be different. They weren’t.

  58. @Glenn

    Coming from a common background between the two of us, I’m not sure willingness to plunge headlong in to a fight is Alpha dominance. When you grow up abused by parents, you’re used to being physically threatened by what amount to giants the likes of which no man will ever have to face. It might bring a certain degree of recklessness and fearlessness to the table which can make it easier to be dominant (when you get push back you’re simply not scared where others would be), but I think dominance itself comes more from self confidence and self esteem.

    I have always had the same ability to plunge in to a fight, no matter the odds, and keep swinging until my body is exhausted. In martial arts it has actually allowed me to surprise more experienced fighters merely by being willing to eat a blow to catch one of their limbs extended and use it to take them down. In class I find myself constantly annoyed by what pussies even our cockiest, most experienced students tend to be. They’re constantly concerned about injury, but I eat it as part of the process.

    There’s guys in the military who are by all accounts absolute undeniable fearless badasses on a battlefield, but their wives henpeck them as mercilessly as any Beta at home. I would not call them Alpha.

    I would not say that’s a source of Alpha at all. It reinforces it, but it is not a source of it.

  59. I suspect that Alpha dominance is at some level related to one’s proclivity to be aggressive and physically fight other males. To this day, I’m still ready to throwdown, in fact I went there two months ago with a wiseass, loudmouth 25 yr old who thought he could treat me derisively. I actually didn’t have to hit him, but I scared the living shit out of him.

    Without going into details, he had it coming with a few weird/nasty comments to me and he actually fucked with me at a gig I was doing – he was another musician there. The moment my set was done I was right in his face. First question I asked him was what on Earth had him think he could speak to me that way? He tried to wriggle out of it, putting it back on me (a tried and true feminized way of gaslighting men whenever they dare get aggressive) but I’ve been around way too long to get tripped up by such bitch tactics.

    As he sputtered his denials I offered, “So on top of being an asshole you are also a pussy who won’t even own up to what you’re so clearly doing? You won’t get away with that with me – be a man, you know exactly what you were doing. But you fucked with the wrong guy.” All while I was advancing and he was retreating.

    Behaving this way isn’t a choice for me. You fuck with me enough (I let most small shit go as I don’t like being aggravated or in conflict, and haven’t gone off on someone like I did this guy in several years), I will escalate to the point of violence and invite you to start it by hitting me. On another occasion I begged a would be mugger to put a hand on me once so I could send him to the emergency room – I’ve never seen black face turn that white before, lol (never throw the fist punch, it keeps you out of jail). I think it was the veins popping out of my forehead, my bulging eyes, my red face, leaning into him, spraying his face with spittle, screaming at him, “Please hit me, I so badly want to kick the living shit out of you and send you to the fucking ER and then jail. Please, please, please – just fucking hit me!”

    That behavior was/is not a conscious choice for me. Yes, I did a quick situational eval – the guy had a couple of inches and a few pounds on me but that didn’t matter. He was alone, we were fairly isolated on a street just at sunset, it was a good neighborhood so I didn’t think some other miscreants would run to his aid while I ground and pound him. Travon Martin had it right, fyi, if you want to take down any non-pro the best move is knock them to the ground, get on their chest and punch as hard and as fast as you can and most fights are over within 10 seconds of that happening. After 5 blows to the face most people are begging for mercy – except for guys like me.

    You see, I’m actually on autopilot. Another fight I had when younger involved a guy I didn’t want to fight. I didn’t get angry and go into “full maniac mode” as I refer to it. So he was beating the crap out of me for the first part of the fight cuz he hated me and wanted to kick my ass – he was a current GFs ex, we may have overlapped a bit. It was a 7 minute fight, btw, very long and vicious. It’s very rare for a street fight to go that long.

    I was so stunned by his initial attack that he was actually able to then grab me by the legs, and swing me around by them, like in a pro-wrestling match or something. He flung me against a marble wall and then knee dropped on my head, breaking my jaw – he’d already landed 15-20 blows on me before this fun. Then I got pissed off. Within 1 minute I had him in a scissor lock between my legs and was punching him in the face like his head was a speedbag. I literally had to take two breaks from the punching to keep it up for about 90 seconds. I easily hit him in the face 50 times and ended up also choking him by the neck with my knees while I was doing it. I was going to kill him – after the head smash and knee drop I was fighting to the death. It was on, and there was nothing conscious about it. 7 people eventually peeled me off of him, but if not I would have killed him and was well on my way to doing so.

    GWDT Can you teach your son/husband to be that? I doubt it. The first time I did it I was really young, like 9 and my friend and I were attacked by 7 other kids. I remember being scared and then flying into a rage. I took out 5 of them with my bike, using it as a melee weapon. I had it by the back wheel and swung it around into them, mangling them with with front wheel and stingray handlebars, full of maniacal glee/rage and inhuman strength for a scrawny kid. The other 2 ran off. Again, no choice – this is just how it goes with me. But don’t get the wrong idea, I’ve lost more than a few fights – and I rarely start them – but in fact I think it was those losses that shaped some of this kind of reaction. I didn’t want to lose anymore and I was willing to completely give into my rage and forget all the fear – but it all happens in an instant, does anyone else here know what I’m saying?

    It’s quite odd talking about all this and it makes me realize yet another aspect of our FI informed society. It’s like I should be ashamed of fighting and protecting myself – again, I was rarely the instigator. I have never been a bully or a guy who starts fights in bars etc. I do finish it though. But certainly I shouldn’t talk about it, right?. I’m sure some here are tempted to shame me for this behavior – I just laugh at you now. But for a long time I shamed myself for it too, so I do understand. We can’t have men acting like men, can we?

    Many people might think that makes me a maniac or an asshole – I don’t care. People do not get away with fucking with me. Period. That’s dominance and aggression and I can’t stop it, and finally(after the Red Pill), no longer want to. But I just think most men don’t have it. And I think this is what makes me Alpha. I will dominate when I want to, I’m not afraid to, I’m not concerned with your escalations – but also because I’m not so insecure, I will treat you with respect as another man. We may be at different points on the track, but we are all in the same race and like most men, I’m here to cheer other men on. I think the lack of fear is also important, and I don’t know how you teach someone that. I have many male friends who are cowards and are completely useless in a fight. That’s okay, but don’t expect me to submit to your dominance…

    It was pretty funny seeing how shocked that kid was though. You could tell he’d rarely encountered a proud, tough aggressive man in his whole life. He was scared and shocked at the same time. He was actually a pussy trying to establish dominance but really has no idea how to interact with other men. He clearly had no idea of the concept of respect – whereas I’m always careful to treat strange men with basic respect cuz I know some of them are maniacs like me who will brook no shit. But to this kid? This encounter was something I don’t think he thought was a possible outcome from his behavior. I was like he couldn’t process it. He was so shocked by how I ran up one side and down the other that he was left speechless and sputtering and retreating. Fuckin’ nutsack, I bet he was raised by a single mom. Or maybe a Mom who was alpha…Or better yet, his Mom probably taught him how to be “alpha”.

    I was probably in the last generation of men who were raised with this kind of ethos in this society. I was taught that it was bad to run from a fight and bad to lose one. But I was also respected for standing up for myself, regardless of the outcome. One of the big differences between how men fight and how women fight is how it ends. You watch two girls fighting? At the end the victor kicks her opponent a few more times, even though she’s curled up in a ball. She might even pull some hair out or spit on her, it’s very ugly. When men fight, once the other guy gives in, it’s almost always over. And afterwards something is actually settled – not with women, it just keeps going and going and going.

    Okay, enough from me. Have a great weekend everyone.

  60. @ Sun – Not saying it’s a “source of Alpha”, I’m not sure how all of his works and interacts. But I know for a fact women react to it. More than couple have told me they feel safe with me, and you also have to get that I don’t pop off like that much, and I particularly avoid doing it with women around as most can’t handle it. But to me, being fearless is somehow part of being alpha, it’s confidence at a very basic, visceral level. I’m not scared of you. No matter what.

    Fyi, I won’t ever get in a fight over a women – never did. Some guy wants to say something stupid, I calm it down with a conversation and buy him a beer. By being tough I’ve avoided tons of fights as an adult by not backing down. Weakness is provocative to a bully – and remember, I’m not the bully. I never pick on guys and that is not my makeup at all. I’m the covert guy you’d never see coming. I can be a handful socially and overbearing, but I never pick fights or escalate first.

    But there is a confidence that comes from this. And I know women pick up on it. It’s less so now as I get older, btw. I see it in younger men, like the fuckstick at my gig, they are not backed off by my demeanor they way they would be 10 yrs ago.

    I think the best example of “peace through strength” I can cite was in a strip club in Dallas TX in the early ’80s. Babydolls, on Northwest, bullet holes in the mirrored walls, but hot dancers, great Old Weller Reserve Bourbon, a pool table and a mixed crowd, from bikers to whatever. One of the bikers decides to jump the line and steal my pool game when my turn comes up. I’m alone, my buddies have left but I’m having a very deep Bourbon and pool session and must take the table back, lol. I go up, grab cue, walk up to him and tell him. “It’s my turn”. He says “No it’s not.” I smash the pool cue into the floor, “It’s my turn”, push the quarters in and begin racking. He’s armed, there are other bikers there – but he can tell I give zero fucks and will throw down with the pool cue and at least hurt him. there is a tense 15-20 seconds and you can see he’s clearly evaluating whether he should kick my ass or not, but he just starts laughing, “Crazy white boy has some balls on him, enjoy the game.”

    This is the impulse I’m talking about. I know you have it, Sun and I’d be in a foxhole with you any day of the week. But the truth is that with most men are cowards. And not alpha. Just sayin…

  61. @Glenn and sun

    I know that guy was trolling before, but you two are explaining on an internet forum how “badass” you are and how you can throw down??! I don’t think Corey Worthington would approve.

  62. And Rollo you can call me a troll as well, but when I read of a guy explaining how he throws down with a pool stick against armed bikers it reminds me of my ex talking about how when she was 21 every guy in da club would go crazy for her….”I was so hot that I got free everything all night. This one time I won best tits in NYC contest. You don’t know shit….blah blah blah.”

    I got it. Subject was admiration. How did we get to…

  63. @ Glenn

    « but it all happens in an instant, does anyone else here know what I’m saying?

    It’s quite odd talking about all this and it makes me realize yet another aspect of our FI informed society. It’s like I should be ashamed of fighting and protecting myself – again, I was rarely the instigator. I have never been a bully or a guy who starts fights in bars etc. I do finish it though.»

    I know what you are saying. There is a reason why personally I avoid fighting and I smile or laugh when somebody tries to instigate a fight with me. I know that once the fight starts, no amount of begging for mercy or appeal to reason is going to stop it. The fight usually ends with somebody going to hospital.

    It’s an impulse, like flipping a switch. When it’s on, it’s too late. From that stems a sense of confidence. I don’t feel the need to instigate a fight. Even when somebody is clearly doing so I usually avoid escalating until there is no other option.

    For some reason, Usually a bully will keep pressing on the more I back off.

    I doubt that can be faked or controlled when a certain threshold is crossed. It’s like going berzerk.

    It is my opinion that we have a predisposition to dominance at birth and later on in life, our experiences and conditioning plays a role in moving us towards one or the other end of the spectrum “beta” “alpha”.

    When you have a predisposition for dominance, on a gut level, people know better not to fuck with you

  64. This is off the specific subject somewhat, but I want to interject it while I’m thinking about it.

    I recently read a report posted on the net concerning the psychology of human sexual conditioning. I can’t find it again otherwise I would post the link. Sorry.

    The study described sexual conditioning as a development process we all experience beginning in early childhood and progressing through adolescence. It related various social behaviors we are exposed to during our development stages to our adult sexual preferences and behaviors. For example, part of the study described how women can emotionally “damage” young boys by babying or spoiling, criticizing, domineering, or ignoring proper sexual boundaries. Apparently boys who have endured such “damage” experience frustrating relationships with women as adults. Adult behavior of such males usually involves intense fear of rejection combined with a tendency to unhealthy clinginess. The report also included evidence of development conditions related to such things as breast or butt fetish, foot fetish, fat fetish (chubby chasers) and homosexuality.

    I occurred to me that the sole mate myth is actually a prevalent sexual conditioning phenomenon. This may explain why so many men are beta. Are they psychologically sexualized (sexually programmed through childhood and adolescence) to automatically sexually respond to and seek out the “soul mate” ideal due to this psychological conditioning?

    To escape this psychologically sprung trap, they must first realize, no matter what any woman pretends, there is no golden pussy at the end of the sexual rainbow.

  65. Adolf Hitler was a small man week man but he had the alpha mind set that caused 50 mil dead.

    alpha is a mind set.

  66. @yossarian

    We’re I trying to threaten people instead of discussing characteristics of dominant behavior, you might have a point. Instead, you just come across as automatically shaming the discussion without considering the context or the intent.

    Like I give a fuck if you or Corey Worthington approves of my behavior. Fuck off and let the men talk.

  67. Wow! The warrior gene. Interesting.

    If you think the nerd gene is the new alpha gene, don’t get your hopes up.

    Women do not want to fuck books, computers, engineering equations or atomic bombs. Alpha is alpha fucks, not alpha bookworm, alpha technogeek or alpha slide rule. Women want to fuck strong healthy physically fit males. Hot women will not settle for less with uninhibited sex. Several hundred thousand years of evolved DNA is not going to modify over night itself just to make a sexual losers fantasy come true.

  68. @ Glenn

    “Women are omnivores but with much lower sex interest in general”

    I’m not sure I agree. My theory at the moment is men evolved to be sexually attracted to a very large portion of the female population while women evolved to be attracted only to a few men. As Mystery said, women evolved to want to fuck the king and his buddies. Put a woman in a room with a rock star, professional athlete, movie star, or any other male 10, and she will behave as voraciously as any man will toward a HB 8 to 10.

    This explains why so many wive are dissatisfied sexually with their husbands. In any given population where the genders are relatively evenly distributed, there will be only a few men capable of arousing a woman’s intense sexual interest while there will be literally millions of women capable of arousing the same sexual reaction of a man. There are a very limited number of Alphas to go around. Most women will therefore end up settling.

    We are all products of our evolved biology.

  69. “Women are omnivores but with much lower sex interest in general”

    Mistaken. Women are better at hiding their lust. Hiding It is an important part of their game. They want to remain covert, discrete. They want to do (or want you to do) all the nasty things you think about; just as bad as you and possibly more. Its only a matter of them thinking of you as being one to do it with. Stop worrying about yourself (if you are worrying about yourself) and observe, turn on your radar and you may be surprised how many opportunities you are not seeing.

  70. A long time ago when I was a weakling and felt very inadequate I would often think to myself and sometimes talk about what a bad ass I “really” was. The man who actually wins a real fight is the real bad ass.

  71. Glenn hit on something of note.. I think we, as men, misinterpret womens behavior by projecting onto them our experiences. In specific, we underestimate just how much of a social creature a woman is compared to us.. so when we watch women behaving a certain way, in mass, we assume it must be some biological/limbic reason behind it.. while sometimes true, I think we are missing just how much her behavior comes from being a creature trapped in the hive mind.
    For us, the hive mind literally causes us cognitive dissonance when the FI tries to program us against our biological nature- thus the pain of beta. No amount of socialization will make a guy actually desire a fat old broad, but women will get excited by anything that puts her one step up in her social hierarchy. Women without any real lesbian drive will suddenly get all wet kissing their best friend simply because her social circle and some rock star says its cool to do so.
    Can you imagine anything society can do to make you excited about kissing some dude? Women are social animals in a way that we simply just can not experience, ever.. so different are men and women in this regard that I think it’s the real limbic programming at work here. Beyond all other programming a woman is programmed from her DNA to be sexually and socially malleable in every way. Men are the opposite, we are programmed to be the polar opposite- to rely on our judgement, our individualism and our “gut”.
    So when people here say that womens perception of roles and social expectations make her the type of wife she becomes, I’m inclined to agree. Doing anything for a man- a husband- has been hammered into womens heads as demeaning and beneath her, Sexless marriages are expected and “the way it is”.. women are told that being submissive and kinky is hot when its done in a fling, but demeaning when done for a husband, etc. The messages are being sent to a creature that survived historically by melding with the hive mind, a creature designed for social programming. The debate over human nature being a blank slate or nature vs nurture can be resolved by understanding women are blank slates, men are driven by Nature. Oddly this leads to men being individualistic due to that being what they are programmed to do, and women being social slaves, that being the result of being a blank medium made by nurture.

  72. @Hobbes

    Doing anything for a man- a husband- has been hammered into womens heads as demeaning and beneath her

    My ex was quite young (19 when we started dating) and a virgin. She was actually under the impression that doggy style sex was demeaning to the woman until I pounded her in to a toe-curling screaming (and I mean screaming like she was being murdered) orgasm for the first time in her life. Honestly, every time I see these stupid bull dyke feminist influences convincing women of shit that actually keeps them from enjoying some of the most wonderful things they could possibly have in life, I actually feel sad for them.

  73. @sun- don’t get me started. I had similar experiences. It is always shocking to me how much women judge based on how her social circles judges things. With my last ltr I actually questioned her alot on “what she believed” because she really thought about it, as opposed to what she believed because she was “supposed” to believe, and I was constantly amazed that there was almost no unique person beneath the surface. Her opinions, beliefs, likes and desires were always determined by “shoulds” and “have-to’s”

    1. @lh

      @notbornthismorning

      Hey this book helped me understand me life from your post

      http://www.amazon.com/The-Boy-Raised-Psychiatrists-Notebook-What/dp/0465056539

      The brain adapts in any way to sexual violation.

      When I said a page back one should dump any women lacking admiration of course I didn’t talk about making demands or even dread game, you can’t talk about that at all. I was talking about pure action. For me the lack of admiration is just the sign it’s over and time to go for the next.

      @dragonfly:
      There is not much disagreement between us to keep the discussion running. Regarding the idea of how to educate a son I’d want to add how important it also is to train a son all the ways of manipulation women do without realizing. In my upbringing I had a lot admiration from my mother and my sisters and I still get it today from almost any women I talk to more seriously than usual small talk. But at the same time my mother and my sisters of course tried everything in their books to control me. I always instinctively knew and had really deep blockades to fail (!) shit tests. What brought me down was when my BP-idealisms took over when I started dealing with girlfriends. I somehow thought they should be different. They weren’t.

      @not born this morning

      Mistaken. Women are better at hiding their lust. Hiding It is an important part of their game. They want to remain covert, discrete. They want to do (or want you to do) all the nasty things you think about; just as bad as you and possibly more. Its only a matter of them thinking of you as being one to do it with. Stop worrying about yourself (if you are worrying about yourself) and observe, turn on your radar and you may be surprised how many opportunities you are not seeing.

      (You know this was me for a good portion of my life) not anymore

    2. @lh

      I meant to say that your post represents a good portion In the women in my family. In transferred in the real world badly leading on multiple attempts on my own life.

  74. LOL Glenn you crack me up. You lecture me on raising my son, yet you’ve done such a great job that you’ve managed to raise a feminist, rebellious, father-hating daughter.

    Karma is a bitch.

  75. The importance of physical prowess/dominance is overblown.

    Don Knotts and Wally Cox were ladies men. Yes, they were actors and made some coin, but still. Most important thing for a guy is to learn to be able to talk. More Toastmasters and fewer workouts.

    The Man’s Man is what men think women should like. That can be a successful route for some, but confidence is more important than the package. A lot of the guys at the top of the female drool list are fairly androgynous or effeminate. Not the roughest of the rough. But guys who are insecure in their masculinity don’t want to go effeminate, so they become workout warriors. Which doesn’t solve their underlying issues.

    Effeminate heterosexuals often do quite well with women. Not betas or wannabes, just effeminate guys. But those guys tend to have confidence in their image, and they probably had one or several women encouraging them when they were young, and that’s the direction they decided to take it. So the underlying confidence is there.

  76. Striver- very true. probably the most successful, with women, guys I know is about 140 lbs wet, about 5’7” kind of effeminate and has admitted- regularly- to having sucked a cock or two. But, he’s a funny guy, very social, people like him instantly and pretty. He is also chronically unemployed, broke and now in his mid 30s with no career, prospects or even an apt of his own.
    The guy slays with women. It’s crazy.
    Social skills, knowing what to say, etc goes a long long way. One thing I do notice is he has great game. Never feels embarassed by anything, does his own thing, could care less what anyone thinks of him, is always up to something socially, never comes across as needy or buthurt. He has a gift for talking bullshit about nothing and being clever at it.
    Guys who think they need hours in the gym to get women are as much in for disappointment as guys who think they need money. Now, saying all that, I workout, keep in shape, but do it for my health and well being..but I don’t fool myself into thinking its gonna get me much pussy. Sure, its not gonna hurt, but it’s a bad crutch for too many guys.
    It’s all about attitude.

  77. GWADT – Correction, my ex wife raised a father hating daughter – get the facts straight, and she also would not call herself a feminist. She’s just inherited the family tradition of disposing of men, just like her Mom and Grandma – all the girls are doing it, haven’t you heard?

    But lets get into it. Can you not see the absurdity of a Mom trying to make her boy an Alpha? Your boy is being Alpha when he ignores you and laughs at you when you tell him what to do. But there is much more to this than I think you realize too. You see, we really are talking about teaching positive masculinity. Men need to teach that to other men – women need to mind their own business and stop denigrating masculinity. That’s all, women just need to stop tearing it down.

    Also, I get the sense this is all some kind of formula for happiness, like a self-help program or some other dime-store psychology stuff, for you. But you see, when we are talking about these very innate things, one has to be real. Do you actually respect your husband? Do you find him attractive? Doesn’t it bother you that you have to pester him to alpha up? What I read on your blog about how you are approaching this sounded so absurd to me, honestly. To me? You are just twisting Red Pill to the FI. Me? I’m going through something hard but I’m doing it in a real way. I’m actually evolving. I’m adapting to the realities of the world and being honest about it. You come across as the Christian version of the “strong, independent woman” who’s now going to work the Red Pill program, right after Yoga class or something. I know that may be hurtful to hear, but this is why I react as I do.

    My current state is that I find being a selfish prick quite nihilistic and unsatisfying. I miss being a hero. I miss playing good guy and striving for something other than cash or ass. It’s quite unnerving to sink into this space after 50 years with the bit in my mouth. Which again is why I find you a bit much, I mean, what on earth would you know about my life experience? How could you possibly understand, for example, all the stuff I just laid out about physical dominance and violence? No women understands that kind of stuff. Or many other aspects of the male lived experience. You talk about it like you have some handle on it all, and I find it absurd.

    I know you mean well, and I think you believe that should get you credit somehow – but it really doesn’t for me because as I’ve said in the past, why can’t women get that men want just one male space where they can be left alone? The biggest gift you can give me is your absence here, not your commentary. I’ve learned nothing from you. You are sweet and I bet you are a very good person. Good for you, now run along please.

    Just let me ask you to consider one simple thing about your son and what you are teaching him. Do you think you are being submissive or dominant in your family system? Do you demonstrate submissive female behavior? Is he learning from his father how to dominate a woman? Does he understand that his father runs the family, not you?

    In fact, let’s do a social experiment. Sometime over the weekend, have someone else (friend, neighbor etc) ask your son who runs his family, Mommy or Daddy? What do you think his answer would be if neither of you were in the room?

    Unless you are the polar opposite in your family of your personality on your blog and here, he will say you run the family. Perhaps I’m wrong, but that’s what I think when I read what you write about this.

    I hope you never have your child turn on you after a lifetime of loving him. There is nothing more heartbreaking. The death of my Mom when I was 11, the abuse by my father, my divorce – they are nothing in comparison to the loss of that connection with my daughter. Yet such is the lot of many a man – but again, what the fuck would you or any woman know about it anyway?

    I don’t hate you and don’t want to scrap with you. I just want to be left alone here, with other men. I can’t make you stop, I know, and many men here may not wish the same. But there it is.

    1. @Hobbes
      I got a question
      This man you know how long have you known him? Does he place women before himself as to not make them a compliment in rollos terms? Does he ever talk about a field he is interested in? Is there a specific reason he didn’t have a place to stay?
      Curious because I can relate in a lot of what you describe about him?

  78. Guys, believe me or not, like it or not, it’s all true. But really, the war stories were not the point – it was just liberating to actually talk about it. I really don’t ever talk about this shit, it’s like a no-go zone in society, yet another aspect of masculinity we’ve shamed into obscurity. Perhaps I shouldn’t have here as I didn’t want to derail an excellent discussion.

    My point was to ask these questions. If Alpha is, at it’s most basic, being dominant in a group, from where does this quality emanate? Why does a person feel they can dominate, why do they? Why do some people not do so? Think about Corey Worthington – he would not let the reporter frame the narrative about his party – at all. That’s what was so alpha about him, why does he do that but others don’t?

    I tend to think that being alpha is about building compelling frame for people to be in and maintaining that frame. When you frame a social setting or narrative, you are being dominant. When you seduce a woman, she’s in your frame – dominant. You ain’t going to seduce her by being submissive, are you? She’s resisting but wants you to push a little bit – without the push it goes nowhere.

    It seems to me my dominance is related to a confidence/fearlessness wrt physical conflict. It feels like it’s in the same category inside me or something, I don’t know. But it’s also true that most men aren’t dominant. Funny, I meet more dominant women than I do men these days.

    Rollo, great stuff in the links, thanks so much. Not sure if I have the gene but I did 15 yrs of therapy and other work to channel and funnel anger. Hint: One of the places I blow off steam is on websites/comments, lol. I hope that doesn’t piss too many people off here, but I don’t talk this way in real life. I’m much nicer to people most of the time.

    Last. I’m not some gleaming alpha stud, and never have claimed to be. I have gotten more ass than a toilet seat and am dominant (hmm, could there be a correlation?), but I also was ruined by Blue Pill Betatude and the FI soaked world we live in. I’m a bit of a wreck right now actually, struggling to keep a good attitude, after getting on track again last year for a while. This transition is hard, I feel like I have no foundation anymore. But I’ll keep at it and I’m sure I’ll find my footing again.

  79. but I did 15 yrs of therapy and other work to channel and funnel anger. Hint: One of the places I blow off steam is on websites/comments, lol.

    OMG! We’d never be able to tell, Glenn… you hide your anger sooooo well.

    lol

  80. Trying to reconcile something Glenn wrote with what I have heard my soon to be ex say and others. Glenn wrote that when his daughter was young, women he dated didn’t like the fact that his daughter would always be first instead of them. But my wife and other women have left marriages claiming they are tired of giving or taking care of their husbands. I am trying to imagine those statements coming from the same woman and having them make sense.

    Let’s do a formula showing how women might think of a relationship. We’ll call it Women’s Objective Relationship Metric (WORM.) If WORM is less than zero at any time, the couple should divorce. The formula:

    WORM = W * (a/t – b*t) + F*z + M * (b – a)

    W = Woman’s objective value
    a = things the man has done for the woman
    b = things the woman has done for the man
    t = time (not strictly linear, but always increasing)
    F = woman’s feelings about the relationship.
    z = dependent on F. z = 1/t if F is positive, t*t if F is negative.
    M = Man’s objective value

    W is always >>>>>>> M. W is a million or so, M about 0.0001 in a typical couple. So the M part of the equation is irrelevant.

    Multiplying a and b by t means that the things the man does for the woman are discounted over time, whereas the things the woman does for the man are more resented and more burdensome. Note the man does not discount/factor for time.

    z is needed because feelings are discounted over time as well, except if F is negative, in which case time is a multiplier. It is impossible for F to be zero.

    I think this explains how women feel they should be first while simultaneously feeling they are giving “more.” It’s all about W>>>>>>>M.

  81. I have simple test for respect. Is she ready to leave on time? If she’s always more than 5 minutes late getting ready then she has no respect. To confirm if she is always on time for work, girlfriends, family, etc. she has no respect. Automatic next. I allow three strikes then go ghost.

    Same goes for the toilet seat issue. More than three complaints about leaving the seat up and demote to booty calls only.

  82. You know what women admire? The attraction of other women to you. I pretty much openly game the fm. She suggested we go out last night. I promised her in my acceptance that I would be going after other women with the intent of bringing one home with us or at the very least getting the fm hot from the attraction of other women to me. Well it worked. I got one number lots of IOIs and the fm is very hot for me. I’ll remind her this morning and see about getting something going. She is of course annoyed that it works. OTOH she is very glad I maker her hot. She hears all kids of stories from her GFs about how the heat is totally gone. Not her. Most times my mere presence is enough to eventually require a panty change. Heh.

  83. @ Dragon – I have 5 sisters (well 2 full, one half and two ex step sisters) – but you don’t remind me of any of them. 4 out of 5 of them love me like crazy – I could move into any of their houses tomorrow, and I’ve been a father figure to two of them in real, material ways. The fifth is mixed on me, but this only happened once she fully digested her radfem ideology and then lived into it in the Prog-Topia that is Montreal for 10 years – and oh yeah, only after she finally got married. Funny how she would only suddenly decide I was an asshole at age 39 when just 4 years earlier she asked me to walk her down the aisle at her wedding. She found a new guy to protect/provision/support and suddenly she can scrape me off – very familiar script to me by now. Did you ask your brother to walk you down the aisle?

    Tell me, is your “asshole” brother a father figure to you? I’d guess not, and perhaps this may give you a hint as to how much you presume to know about me that you don’t actually know. You are barely an adult, barely married, barely a parent – when I was where you are at, my little family looked the picture of tradition. Married at 24, Dad at 26, stay at home wife hotter than you, my career on a rocket ship – is that your brother? Lol – shall I keep up, child? I’ve lived your life almost twice over, try listening and learning instead of running your yap about nonsense. Fyi, I’m not angry at you, I’m disciplining you like your husband should. I wonder, when was the last time you were really put in your place? It certainly seems well overdue to me.

  84. @ Hobbes – I think you are misunderstanding me. The arousal of hetero women by many types of sexual images while men are only aroused by images of hetero sex isn’t speculative on my part, it’s been studied many times, do some Googling. Women’s entire sexuality is more plastic than men’s. This is why you get women kissing – not just because it’s perhaps a social status improvement, it’s also sexually exciting for them. We don’t do it because there is no sexual excitement. It’s also why women can go happily without sex for long periods of time.

    Consider bisexuality in women and how many women can go through a lesbian phase. It’s much, much more common in women. Although another thing that we don’t talk about in the manosphere is the “top” phenomenon in the male gay community. Gay men are not strictly attracted to other gay men – in fact, they are often attracted to Alpha, masculine, hetero men and there is a certain class of man who is hetero, but will do a man as a sideline if he’s allowed to be the “top”. In other words, he’s doing the penetrating, not the receiving. Ask any gay man, they will tell you there seems to be an ample supply of such “straight” men. But remember, these guys are turned on by women and see this as a substitute for that, they don’t date or get in homosexual relationships, it’s almost always purely casual and just sex but involves no sucking or taking it up the butt. It seems even the male version of bisexuality is different from the female version.

    But I digress. My point was that the intensity and focus of male arousal is likely a substantively different experience from that of women’s arousal. I notice it’s more ethereal, subtle and flows from their emotional state of mind much more than for men. I think they are much less visual and conceptual about it too, it just “happens”. While men can get aroused by set piece fantasies, or planned sexy evenings, it almost never works with a woman, as Rollo has noted on this blog. A woman will get turned on by your tee shirt left in her bed but not by the romantic dinner you planned for Valentines Day. Back to the whole dominance thing – it also always feels like a woman is surrendering to me when she does get aroused, which is delicious. Dominance/submission, all part of the mix.

    As for “hive mind” and other such pseudo-scientific aspersions you are attempting to cast against women, just know that this is a very dehumanizing idea. Women are individuals too – and cannot be reduced to drones controlled by a master. I do think that the Prog-Marxist, global memeplex which the left has consciously constructed over the past 150 years is an excellent transmission mechanism for the FI, but a hive mind? I’ll look for real, actually occurring phenomena.

    But let’s say you are directionally correct in the sense that women value social/SMV status more than men – could they be right? Is it possible that a woman who increases her attractiveness to men has a lot more power? Does she not have access to many more men and the respect of other women? Is being a sought after women not a huge benefit in this society? Why then would a woman making a different calculation about sexual behavior and social status than men be perfectly reasonable? Given that their sexuality is more plastic and that they can get aroused by women and that higher status is very valuable, it all seems explainable without reverting to the hive mind hypotheses.

  85. “I don’t hate you and don’t want to scrap with you. I just want to be left alone here, with other men. I can’t make you stop, I know, and many men here may not wish the same. But there it is.”

    Rollo has made it clear that women are permitted to comment here. If this decision makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you should run your own blog and forbid women from posted. Alternately, you might avoid signaling them out first and attacking for no good reason. For example, Dragonfly did not address you until you made the following commentary:

    “GirlWithDragons is funny though – she thinks she can manipulate weak men into being dominant by nagging them and turn ruined women into great wives by hectoring them. Lol. really, lo-fuckng-l. She’s coming up on the Wall though, I bet Epiphany is right around the corner. She also might consider that “alphaing” the son is the Dad’s job, not her’s – defacto anything she teaches her son about being a man is demonstrating female imperatives – “I need you to become alpha so you can manage a woman”. What she could do is demonstrate submission to her husband though – that will teach her son something. But I just don’t think that’s how it goes around the GWDT household. I’d love to be a fly on the wall though and watch what pretending to be submissive looks like. It should be funny. And get that if you were submissive, GWDT, you wouldn’t be here or on your blog. It’s axiomatic that you are dominant. And guys, the last thing on earth you want to do is marry an alpha woman – that is if you actually like owning your own cock.”

    If not for the above commentary I doubt she would have responded. If you really want to be left alone as you say, don’t throw that first water balloon for no good reason.

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