The Invisibles

invisibles

Forge the Sky:

The heart of all this is: in a woman’s mind, humans have three genders. Women, alphas, and betas. The problem is, it’s difficult to distinguish between the latter two as there are no clear biological markers; a few un-fakeable traits like height and muscularity give an indication, similar to how long hair tends to indicate a woman, but not infallibly so.

But women have different relationships with them. To women, betas are friends, helpers, co-workers, employees, servants; unless related by blood, they are practical beings only. There is no romance to them. They are useful, fun, maybe even someone to be a little affectionate toward so long as they remain useful, but they have no deeper self, no soul, no mystical thing to bind to.

Alphas are something else entirely. They are actually people – people drenched with desire, romance, spirit. Him, she can respect. In greater cases even worship. It matters little how well he performs objectively, so long as he does nothing to make her doubt her assessment of him as alpha. If he does perform, she admires and praises his performance – but she’s doing that about something or another regardless, even if she’s gushing about how he bought her a bag of skittles.

No woman will stand beside a beta as he faces, and succumbs to, death. Not unless it’s convenient, or she would be shamed otherwise. It simply would not make sense for her to do so. Would you hold your employee’s hand as they lay dying? Only if they had a fatal accident right in front of you. Past that, condolences to the kids.

Men see two genders. Men and women. Better and worse, more and less attractive, but no fundamental difference. Without being trained in a (for us) counterintuitive mindset, we will by default project our understanding of gender upon women. And so we try to improve our beta game, instead of flipping the script.

The blue pill is miserable because it is learned helplessness. From within, it is the cracking of an invisible whip, punishment meted capriciously and without time or reason. There is no pattern or method to the blue pill man’s pain.

FTS must’ve been reading my mind this week because his comment made a perfect segue into what I’ve been developing this week. The most salient part of this comment, I thought, was “Without being trained in a (for us) counterintuitive mindset, we will by default project our understanding of gender upon women.”

This was a good observation because there are intrinsic parts of the male psychological firmware that the Feminine Imperative picked up on long ago and deliberately co-opts to better aid in optimizing women’s control of Hypergamy.

From the utility-need side of Hypergamy, this mostly manifests in various forms of serviceable security. The Beta Bucks aspect of Hypergamy can be distilled to a need for security, protection, and a certainty that a woman and her offspring will be insured against any uncertainty. Every psychological and sociological dynamic that contributes to feminine-primacy keys on this need for existential certainty. The War Brides dynamic, the evolution from old-order chivalry to modern feminism, and now the social / legal handicapping of men to ensure that feminine-security certainty above all other considerations are all manifestations of this need.

The Feminine Imperative learned long ago that men’s innate protectorate instinct for the feminine was its second most valuable means of masculine control – the first being men’s ‘always on’ sexual impetus. Thus pairing the two as a means of control is a simple deductive proposition for the imperative. The rudimentary connection being, “protect the woman and I get sex.”

This is the unspoken exchange that’s part of our evolutionary past. Men are nothing if not deductive (yet creative) problem solvers, and women have used this to their hypergamous advantage since our hunter-gatherer beginnings.

This is what confounds modern men under the auspices of our present feminine-primary social order. We’re emphatically told that women “never owe men sex“, yet the latent message is, and has always been, “but, if you perform to her satisfaction, she might be more inclined to give you sex.” Carrot to pull the cart, I know, but this mental algorithm is a sociological buffer for women – exclude the sexually unworthy, but leave an acceptable caveat in order to leverage the possibility of sex with those who are still useful in providing security.

Bear this in mind the next time you read a story about a savior White Knight who was beaten to a bloody pulp for his effort to protect a woman from the “predations” of some Alpha(s) she likely wants to bang anyway. Men will project, by default, our own gender interpretation onto women, and sometimes pay the price for it. Betas believe the feminine-primary, equalist advertising that men and women are functional equals while still force fitting an expected, old-order, male-protectionism (completely based on an unequal state presumption) into that belief – often at their own expense.

Invisible Men

While I disagree that there are no distinct physical and cultural markers that women use (sometimes subconsciously) to distinguish Alpha men from the bulk of Beta men, I strongly agree with the distinction and characterization Forge the Sky makes with how women regard Beta men.

The vast majority of men are sexually invisible to women, but all males are visible in terms of their utility to women and the role those men are expected to play in deference to women’s solipsism.

There’s an important difference in that visibility with respect to men and women we need to consider.

I expect that female readers will trot out the “ooh, ooh, men do it too” counter that women are invisible to men who don’t see them as a sexual prospect. That may be the case, particularly for mature women convinced they should be sexually viable into their 50s, however, those women’s functional utility is never an issue for men. Neither is it an article of attraction for a man. As much as a feminine-centric culture would like to convince women of the opposite, men simply don’t factor a woman’s provisional utility into their attraction equation.

Invisible men never become visible to women until either those men intrude on a woman’s’ awareness or she has a specific utilitarian need of him. At this point, whether due to arousal / attraction awareness or her specific need (usually protection or security insurance), that man must perform to prove his maleness. He must qualify for her visual acknowledgment of him.

Over prolonged periods, this invisibility, and the fear of having his insistence rejected, can influence men’s overall perception of women and their intergender interpretations. Invisible men tend to confuse a woman’s utility interests in him as genuine indicators of interest (IOIs). The Feminine Imperative prepares for this ‘mixed message’ with a constant, self-perpetuating social narrative that tells the invisible men they are never, under any circumstance, owed a woman’s intimacy – it is always a gift, a reward, for her approval.

Despite this aspect of their social conditioning, the Invisibles still read more into those IOIs and perceive that a woman’s attraction is a genuine extension their own serviceability. This is the foundation of the Savior Schema. Much of what the manosphere considers sexual ‘thirst’ is a direct result of the scarcity mentality that results from an Invisible becoming an unexpected service-providing option for a woman.

Invisible men become more compliant when women’s utility needs make them visible. They confuse their use with genuine appreciation and desirability.

If we consider the 80 / 20 rule of the sexual marketplace and figure that 80% of Beta men are sexually invisible to women we get a broader perspective of how the gender landscape has evolved in an era where women’s security-side needs are planned for and met with a relative degree of certainty.

I had a teenage kid I used to consult who related this story about how one of his nerdy friends had somehow spontaneously generated the interest of a girl who was an obvious two points above his SMV. His initial frustration was one of wonderment about how this guy could be ‘dating’ so hot a girl while he wasn’t bumping the needle with even the girls he thought were a point below himself.

His nerdy friend assumed the predictable self-righteous Beta position that some “special” girls just understand and appreciate guys like him in favor of the brutish jocks “society tells them they should like.” All this came two weeks before that year’s homecoming dance (and after-party), where she promptly left him to go dance and party with her girlfriends and their jock guy-friends for the rest of the evening.

This kid had served his utilitarian purpose of fronting the money for the evening, a limo, corsage, photos (of their group) and the bit of risky underage liquor he could manage. In spite of all that he still refused to make the connection of his being used for her purpose. Invisibles feel validated in their own manipulation because that utility made them visible (“do my homework nerd”) even if just momentarily. As bad as that extortion was, that brief moment of visibility implies the prospect that another woman in the future (a really special one) will also appreciate his utility and reward it with her intimacy.

Needless to say, this visibility differential becomes an internalized factor in men’s approach to women. There are ways an invisible man can make himself visible; all require effort and risk. As I stated before, a man remains invisible unless his physical presence and arousal prompts make him unignorable, his performance is outstanding enough to draw attention or he simply asserts his visibility towards that woman. Physical bearing and performance recognition being the Alpha Fucks side of the Hypergamy equation is an easy follow, but a man asserting himself and his personality is where the Red Pill and applied Game come into play. This prospect will always imply risk of rejection until such a time that an Invisible’s confidence supersedes his self-image as an invisible.

We had a long discussion in the last thread about the mindset of the MGTOW contingent of the manosphere and the sentiment of men wishing to remove themselves wholesale from the sexual marketplace. I understand this sentiment and I know men, like Advocatus Diaboli, who have legitimately recused themselves from the SMP, but it seems to me this want is the result of having been invisible to women for so long. They get to a point where they become invisible by choice.

The Third Sex

I can’t finish this essay without drawing attention to FTS’s first observation:

The heart of all this is: in a woman’s mind, humans have three genders. Women, alphas, and betas. The problem is, it’s difficult to distinguish between the latter two as there are no clear biological markers; a few un-fakeable traits like height and muscularity give an indication, similar to how long hair tends to indicate a woman, but not infallibly so.

After I’d reconsidered this I had to dig out my copy of Plato’s Symposium and pore through it to read the part where Aristophanes proposed that there were, in fact, three sexes (in primal times) that their all-male discussion collective ought to consider:

 There were three sexes: the all male, the all female, and the “androgynous,” who was half male, half female. The males were said to have descended from the sun, the females from the earth and the androgynous couples from the moon.

A lot is being made of transgenderism recently and the fluidity with which people want to arbitrarily “gender-identify” borders on the ridiculous, but FTS’s observation has more implications than I think most are aware of. I’m sorry to go all philosophus on you, but I can definitely see parallels with the symbolism Aristophanes suggests and the female perceptions of the division of maleness FTS brings out here. Although Aristophanes would say that these primal beings split into gays, lesbians and heterosexual beings, I’d suggest that this primal awareness stems from a male understanding of the division of Alpha and Beta men and how women perceive them, visibly and non-visibly.

I covered this a while back in Queens, Workers & Drones:

Selective Breeding

So powerful is this sense of entitlement, so consuming and convinced of the correctness of their purpose is the feminine that women will literally breed and raise generations of men to better satisfy it. Hypergamy is cruel, but nowhere more so than in the relationship between a mother overtly raising and conditioning a son to be a better servant of the feminine imperative.

But to breed a better worker, the feminine imperative’s queens can’t afford to have any corrupting, masculine, outside influence. On a societal scale this might mean removal (either by disincentives or forcibly) of a father from the family unit, but this is the easy, extreme illustration. There are far more subtle social and psychological means that the imperative uses to effect this filtering – via mass media, social doctrines, appeals to (feminized) morality, the feminine is placed as the correct imperative while the masculine is filtered out or apologetically tolerated as vestiges of an immature and crude reminder of masculinity’s incorrectness.

Yet for all of this social engineering Hypergamy still demands satisfaction of women’s most base imperative, Alpha seed. The queens need physically / psychologically dominant drones – if just for a season and at their ovulatory pleasure. While beta workers are endlessly vetted in sisyphean tasks of qualifying for the acceptance of the feminine imperative, the Alpha drones live outside this shell; their qualifications only based on how well they satisfy the feminine’s visceral side of  hypergamy.

The great irony of this social solution to hypergamy and long term parental investment is that the vast majority of the offspring of this arrangement would be raised to be better workers. Those betas-to-be boys must be insulated from the corrupting influence of the drones lest they devolve into the Alphas they crave yet cannot control. It may seem counterintuitive, to raise what should ostensibly be optimized genetic stock as a cowed, sometimes medically restrained, feminized beta males. However it is through this harsh conditioning that truly dominant Alphas must rise above. Essentially the genetic lottery isn’t won by women in such a social environment – it’s men, or the ones who rise above in spite of the conditioning efforts of the feminine imperative.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

http://illimitablemen.com/2014/12/14/the-shit-test-encyclopedia/ “Why are they called shit tests? Well when somebody “gives you shit” and fucks around with your head to see how you will react, what you are experiencing is typically a (series of) shit test(s). Everyone has been shit tested, gets shit tested and will continue to be shit tested; It’s an unavoidable part of human interaction. We use shit tests to make value judgements about people and likewise they can be used to determine how you cope under pressure. The underlying theme behind the mechanism of shit tests is that they will always test your mettle. Hence the… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

From the same reference: “Those who consider themselves “a bullshit free zone,” eg: masculine men will “ball bust” (read: shit test your ass a new one) quite relentlessly to determine “just how much of a man you are.” If you are an effeminate or timid man you will feel bullied rather than challenged and that tells the group everything they need to know about you. You will fail to understand that what you are experiencing is a social initiation ritual that all men must go through when they are new to a male-dominated group. You will be relentlessly ridiculed to… Read more »

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

You just failed my shit test.

ha ha, kidding

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

Dude I’m in my 40’s.. you aint teaching me a thing about the male social dynamic. I’m here because of the female dynamic.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

You are saying “cogito ergo omnia sum” I think, therefore I am everything!

You have a lot of make-up reading to do. Both on Game and Rollo’s 400 essays.

redlight
redlight
8 years ago

“you aint teaching me a thing about the male social dynamic. I’m here because of the female dynamic”

do you think the red pill is about changing the male dynamic or the female dynamic?

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

Both. Obviously. Moreso the male of course. However, it’s the change in the female dynamic that has prompted these necessary changes in the male dynamic. In the end, this is an adjustment to a male dynamic that has existed for all time. Good enough?

redlight
redlight
8 years ago

“In the end, this is an adjustment to a male dynamic”

and you are saying that nobody can teach you a thing about this?

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

male social dynamic. i.e. social interaction among males. i.e. as sun so eloquently put it earlier,, comprehension motherfucker, you’re not doing it. 🙂

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

And yes, that’s what I’m saying.. you have never met a more shit-talking brutal crowd than my crowd my friend.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

To split hairs.. YOU asked a question and used “male dynamic”. MY original quote used “male social dynamic”, and in context that meant what I repeated above. Male dynamic, in the context of your question, meant, male behavior, particularly pertaining to male-female interactions. sigh.. this is tiresome

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

.. should be pretty clear by now that my skin be thick.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

Should be pretty clear that we should watch what you do. Not what you say. I screwed my little story up in the paragraph above. The sentence that read Mcdonalds and she can forsee (as I typed above) should read can’t forsee. “A 28 year old girl (fully in her epiphany phase and all that entails) showed up with her boyfriend at an all guys (deerhunting) party. (His excuse was she’s a deer hunter too). She starts to lecture some red-pill guys in their 50’s (several of which had their wife walk away with over $1 million of cash and… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
8 years ago

@TuffLuv Heh, my mother’s abuse was more notable because she had more time. Both were incredibly angry, psychologically abusive people. Both went too far with hitting me for discipline when they lived in the same house/town. Then mom moved me a thousand miles away to get away from dad’s death threats (yes, I saw the letters he was dumb enough to write making them) and I saw dad for a total of 6 weeks a year. Mother was physically abusive till I was 15 or so. It ended when I was tall enough that I was able to look slightly… Read more »

The Diplomat
The Diplomat
8 years ago

Kind of off-topic, but not really:

One of the reason so many people idolize superheroes is because they generally make them ask themselves: “How can I be better?” (regardless of how White Knightish the intent may be), not “how can I make everyone else stop improving?”

That’s a defining characteristic of a villain. One who’s trying to build a better beta–or maybe even a better invisible. Crabs in a barrel.

http://www.bulimia.com/examine/superheroes-with-realistic-body-types/

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
8 years ago

@The Diplomat

Who the fuck wants to idealize average?

The Diplomat
The Diplomat
8 years ago

@Sun

In a best case scenario–no one.

The Diplomat
The Diplomat
8 years ago

But if you click the link I provided, or just follow the “body acceptance” (read: fit-shamers) movement, you will see very clearly some who want to “idealize average.”

Bromeo
Bromeo
8 years ago

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I cant open doors for girls?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.

redlight
redlight
8 years ago

“She could never get through the 3 minute listening exercise when it was my turn to talk without interrupting me” this happened to me too, except it was a 5 minute listening exercise, and she would interrupt 30 seconds or so in I cancelled future counselling, and I went to work just on this. Then it would go: Me: blah, blah, … Her: Interrupt, blah blah blah blah Dead silence from me after a lot of this, I got: Me: blah, blah, … Her: Interrupt, blah blah blah blah Dead silence from me Her: sorry, this is just how I… Read more »

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

Nice, bromeo

ReticentPill
ReticentPill
8 years ago

This comment thread seems to be a clinic on how “The Invisibles” attempt to make themselves seen.

The Diplomat
The Diplomat
8 years ago

This particular thread has gone more places than Eugene Fodor.

Mostly, it seems to have been an active intervention on behalf of Tuff.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

“Mostly, it seems to have been an active intervention on behalf of Tuff.”

Although it might be easier to teach turtles how to outrun greyhounds.

kfg
kfg
8 years ago

The slight of hand is that they switched from “realistic” to “average.”
Catwoman isn’t the least bit realistic. That body type couldn’t straight arm180 lbs.

If you’re going to depict average, do it right.

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

@Sun Thank you for the reply.. you have my sympathy, not that you want it or need it.

“Her psychological warfare after that only increased, and that shit is honestly more devastating than the physical.”

I’m sure that’s true.

kfg
kfg
8 years ago

When is Book 3 going to be done?

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

I hope you celebrate your hard work with a couple fingers of brown liquor. And take Sunday off.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
8 years ago

@Rollo

Grats!

Glenn
Glenn
8 years ago

@ Rollo – Congratulations. It is quite an accomplishment to write and publish two books.

Not Born This Morning
8 years ago

Tuff,

Read this book…

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1400166551/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=3484531370&ref=pd_sl_18crdqs9wr_b

This book is historical fact that you may enjoy regardless of how it may relate to discussions here. It may wake your mind to the reality of man’s true nature, then you may begin to realize how stifling our culture is, that women have gained so much power. We are not allowed to be who we really are.

Not Born This Morning
8 years ago

“May those who
Love us, love us.

And those that
Don’t love us
May God turn
Their hearts;

And if he doesn’t
Turn their hearts
May he turn
Their ankles.

So we’ll know them
By their limping.”

I get it…..one of your favorite fantasies is that “God” will break the legs of those who don’t facilitate your other fantasies. How is that working out for you?

The Diplomat
The Diplomat
8 years ago

@Rollo

WTG! Can’t wait to have it on my bookshelf next to its brother.

Glenn
Glenn
8 years ago

@Tuff – Your comments about male social interactions were telling. The Blue Pill is about how men have internalized a feminine imperative shaped ideology that informs all of our intersexual relations. The complaint starts from the observation that the formula we are handed – romantic love, chivalry, courtly love – vassalizes men. It shames our sexuality and also makes us believe that by being “good men” we can “earn” women when, in fact, men who “earn it” are used and disposed of by women like shoes. And that a certain class of man doesn’t have to earn it at all.… Read more »

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
8 years ago

@Glenn Cool on all of that.. and much of it is opinion shared by me, and all of it is understood by me.. I have a BS in accounting, so hopefully that’s enough street cred, rather than giving you answers to your queries and you concluding that I googled.. I used to be a real sucker for news/politics, and it actually caused me some real depression before I started to play the chess game and think ahead, drawing many parallel conclusions to those you just expressed. I too think there will be a reset where women are forced back into… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
8 years ago

“Men who own assets will be more desirable ..”
Men who can seize and more importantly, defend convincingly assets, more like. From state depredations most of all.

We’re not going to be able to choose a “Goldilocks” sort of endgame/reset, i.e. “good for me, but bad for you guys”. Those who can take, will take.
Nearest I’ve seen is the Yeltsin-era FUSSR. Aim to be a politically-embedded gangster capo. Old Joe Kennedy, Any former Eastern bloc oligarch. Yakuza. Those guys.

Glenn
Glenn
8 years ago

@ Tam – What will happen is the feds will become weaker, not non-existent. The state and local govts will still exist too – they’ll just be much smaller. But there will be plenty of police and courts, don’t kid yourself. Remember, nobody owned all that property in Russia and they had no culture to support the validity of such structures. Govt is the biggest thief in our society and when it retreats you will see more civility, not less. Americans are a deeply moral people, actually, and very tolerant compared to other societies. Some new monetary regime will emerge.… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
8 years ago

@ Tuff – I was not asking you those basic economic questions, they were clearly directed at women. Most men can answer them in some sort of reasonable way, although many men don’t have clear answers. Tell us, you “Red Pill women” how many of you have even a rudimentary understanding of how a free market economy actually works. How many of you have put as much effort into studying that as you have say shopping for shoes in your lives? Or flipping through magazines looking at ads? How many of you have read a single history book that wasn’t… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
8 years ago

@Glenn

used and disposed of by women like shoes.

Not a fair comparison. Most women actually hang on to their shoes, sometimes even for far more sentimental value than they attach to any man.

Razorwire
Razorwire
8 years ago

Perhaps OT and certainly deep in-thread, but… This post is timely as it relates to my recent experience with a couple of women. The intersect involves both the aspect of invisibility WRT “ooo men do it too” and visibility via “functional utility” as seen by epiphany and post-wall women, but also seems to have roots in male “vulnerability” as well. E.g. from the Vulnerability post: “As with all things, your vulnerability is best discovered by a woman through demonstration –never explaining those vulnerabilities to her with the intent of appearing more human as the feminine would define it.” For me,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
8 years ago

@Razorwire It is very uncomfortable. It is not “fair”. Yet more evidence of women always wanting to call you out as “unfair” or “selfish” right before they assert their own selfish or unfair demands. Learning to not give a shit about this when raised in a Blue Pill context is incredibly difficult. It is, however, a shit test as you note it to be. These days I give a woman one dismissive chuckle and possibly some teasing at her complaints for this (like any other selfish/unfair accusation) making it clear that I really don’t care if she finds it unfair.… Read more »

Badpainter
8 years ago

Razorwire – “…women will repeatedly ask for what turns them off, will vocalize the FI image of the emotionally “available” and mature man but actually just want him to “get it” and demonstrate as much through his actions.” And for some reason we men continue to listen to them as if their words were actual attempts at honest communication. A this regards (in)visibility it might be that trying to communicate on an equal basis erases arousal. Since women want an intense emotional experience providing an intellectual experience is a waste of time and counter productive. Therefore there’s no point in… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

Razorwire– I don’t want to give advice but would like to make a note. I read into your short narrative that these two plates are comfort (purple=loyalty) testing you rather than shit testing you. They are screaming at you to commit. You hold the keys to commitment they hold the you-know-what key. So the important thing is that you know what you want and execute you plan as best as possible. You can’t string a post wall girl on forever. Her clock is ticking. And her hamster is running. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/value-shit-tests-vs-comfort-shit-tests/ If you want to have a LTR you have to… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

Sorry, meant to say have a reservoir of comfort for the girl that lets you keep frame and remain Alpha.

Razorwire
Razorwire
8 years ago

Badpainter, Honest communication. For certain, I far too easily lapse into absorbing their communication for content instead of for context. Proving to be a long process of personal re-programming on my part. For all the braying about equal this or that and desiring more vulnerability, I agree: what they really want is the intensity of it all, which of course goes away as soon as I become what they say they want me to be. I have a pattern of checking in and out of this whole mess – and by mess I mean even bothering with plates and the… Read more »

Badpainter
8 years ago

Razorwire – “I haven’t met a woman near my age in 5 years who hasn’t had a cornucopia of cocks, traveled abroad, lived with at least one man, etc. I’m just the next guy. I’d say around 20th on average. Whatever they expect (are entitled to) from me is entirely in their heads.” Right on. Thus as number 20 you’d be a fool to expect that #s 21, 22, 23, etc. aren’t already just over the next hill, and you’re just another painted pony on the carousel waiting for the calliope to stop while the riders to change ponies. No… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago

You have the thing that they want: Commitment. You are the decider of what you want. You decide. You decide you don’t want commitment then don’t give it. These girls you are currently spinning are not Epiphany. They are post wall. They have a time limit on how long they will be a plate spinning on a pole.

You know the rules of the game. Play it well. Keep your eyes open and your head up. If you don’t want commitment, spin the plate until you or her let it fall.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
8 years ago
Okami
Okami
8 years ago

@ Glenn, You made an interesting about Selfishness. I am currently dealing with personal issues related to the fact that I allow people to take advantage of me. It’s difficult for me to stand up for myself without getting and getting angry doesn’t go to well in professional settings. Now, I am battling with some sort of ingrained guilt tied to the notion of self interest; I feel guilty when putting my needs first. People see it and take advantage of it. It comes from my upbringing. You mention having paid your dues at work and being dedicated to your… Read more »

redlight
redlight
8 years ago

@razorwire

“She spent the other evening pushing some NYT linked “story” about some 26 or 36 questions “to fall in love”; a survey that some pop-psych boobs drew up to curry favor in the man-up-and-share-your-feelings camp”

Yareally on the 36 questions:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/the-great-men-on-ugly-feminists/#comment-642136

PUA packaged

ashleylittleprincess
ashleylittleprincess
8 years ago

@ Sirtyrion 2.0,

I totally agree with your arguments. Do you have some blog where you’re posing or social networks? I’d love to get in touch with you 🙂

Glenn
Glenn
8 years ago

@ Okami – The guilt about being selfish may mean that you have internalized the Blue Pill evaluation of your merit and worth in the world based on your utility to others. At least that’s what was so for me. I still get pangs but they stop very quickly.

Razorwire
Razorwire
8 years ago

“Now, I am battling with some sort of ingrained guilt tied to the notion of self interest; I feel guilty when putting my needs first. ” This. While I probably should re-read “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, in the meantime I’m always looking for more ways to bolster my sense of self-promotion and primacy of needs/wants, stripped of this nagging sense of guilt (or perhaps something else?) that seems to paint everything as self-indulgent and/or selfish. It would be too easy to just lay it at the feet of my crazy mom who hated men and boys, my draft horse… Read more »

Wolf N. Shepherd
8 years ago

One takeaway from this: Start your business. Start it now. Figure out where your market is, and start putting the pieces in place to exploit that market. It probably will not be glamorous, but you won’t thrive in our financial system as an employee. We’ve all been conditioned to go down the same path. Get a diploma, get a job, and retire. Maybe after you’re retired you can go after that silly dream you had growing up. Maybe at 65 you can finally travel the world… Yeah fucking right. If you want to do something, do it now. Don’t let… Read more »

Brendan
Brendan
8 years ago

I don’t believe that mothers deliberately raise their sons to be betas. Everyone wants to maximize the number of their offspring, so it makes no sense for a mother to try to teach her son to be unattractive to women. I always assumed that they did this because they were too ignorant of how things really worked to realize how much they were damaging their children. To suggest that women deliberately breed their sons to be betas seems almost as ridiculous to me as would be mothers who castrate their sons. And if the 80/20 rule is true, then it… Read more »

M3
M3
8 years ago

“I really hate all this game and redpill stuff.”

It’s what made Neo puke too.

“When life is difficult and women experience real hardship, they choose the betas, because they fear physical hardship more than they desire sexual satisfaction. When the betas build up society and make things safe for women, the woman choose sexual satisfaction because they have nothing to fear anymore.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_game_theory#Hawk_Dove

Brendan
Brendan
8 years ago

Thank you for the link M3. I thought the hawk dove thing was very interesting. But I don’t think it is a perfect analogy to alpha-beta dynamics, because it’s not like the beta isn’t willing to commit to fights. It’s that his strategy is less effective, either because he is too ignorant to be alpha, or he is unable to. I think the beta is actually closer to a hawk than a dove in that he accepts the cost of competition, although people think of him as weak. I guess the idea is that there is a balance between the… Read more »

M3
M3
8 years ago

” And when I dream about sex, it’s almost always in a LTR and with children.” I used to feel exactly the same way. And i mean exactly. You’ve conditioned yourself to have the preference. Things change as your experiences in life broaden. “Can society fool me into being beta so thoroughly that I believe it even when I am unconscious?” Think back to your past, your childhood, how your mother raised and nurtured you, the friends you socialized with and what caste they were; cool vs. uncool, etc. Everyone is a sum of a million different interactions and choices… Read more »

Brendan
Brendan
8 years ago

Well I was suicidal as a child because I was the school scapegoat and I got detention literally hundreds of times and I never found out why. Also I had a teacher who liked to humiliate me in front of the class. I learned that I should always hide my emotions no matter what. But that was a couple years before I went through puberty. I became interested in girls late, and in a rather unusual fashion. But I was always unusual, which is why I got picked on at school. I don’t know how much of my weirdness is… Read more »

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[…] Beta fellow not long after her ‘fling’ (his story). You can read the whole exchange here if you like, but what TuffLove describes is a textbook example of the Alpha re-interest impulse that defines […]

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