Queens, Workers & Drones

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As I’ve stated in many prior posts, it is Men, not women who are the True Romantics. It is actually Men who will more readily alter their lives in the most radical of ways to achieve what they think is an idyllic state of monogamy with their ‘Woman of Quality’. I understand how this statement may conflict with women’s (and mangina symp’s) characterizations of ‘typical guys’ just wanting to fuck anything that smiles at them, but this sentiment is only designed to maintain the feminine as the victimized gender.

It is in fact Men who are more prone to wanting commitment from a woman. The operative word here is “wanting” commitment.

Men are now also just as likely to want to get married as women and more likely to fall in love at first sight.

Experts said that the results were evidence of ‘gender blurring’ in which women have become more like men and men have taken on the characteristics usually associated with women.

I doubt that last quote from this article will shock my regular readers. Considering that the overwhelming majority of men are corn-fed betas, raised from birth to be devoted, “supportive”, wives to their masculinized fem-husbands, it’s really no surprise that men would be the ones seeking solace in a monogamy they’ve been conditioned to believe should be their goal-state for so long.

While betas are concerned with qualifying for an idyllic monogamy, Alphas tend to focus more on fidelity – their women’s fidelity, not necessarily their own.

Feminized Commitment

One very effective meme the feminine imperative has cunningly inserted into our social awareness is the feminine ownership of the term ‘commitment’. Calling a guy a ‘commitment-phobe’ is really a 90’s shaming cliché that’s been a retread for the Man Up! generation. There are different variation of this shaming – a guy can be ‘phobic’ because he lacks maturity, or because he’s become bitter and burned by a spurned woman, but underneath all that is the association that the concept of commitment uniquely applies to a man committing to monogamy with a woman.

From the Paradox of Commitment:

The idea is that commitment should only have meaning in a feminine defined reality. Ironically, it’s Men who commit far more readily to ideals, family, military, business ventures or partnerships, and servitude than women have the capacity to appreciate, because recognizing this doesn’t serve their imperative. In other words, a commitment to anything that doesn’t directly benefit the feminine isn’t commitment; answer? Redefine commitment to reflect feminine interests.

One thing that needs to be understood about women’s innate feminine solipsism is how it’s expressed on a meta-scale. It’s very easy to observe and consider individual examples of women’s subconscious sense of self-importance (read any comment from women on a manosphere blog) , but what most men aware of this phenomenon don’t consider is how this solipsism scales up to the larger social narrative.

I’ve written extensively about the Feminine Reality and Feminine Social Primacy, but these have been ‘top down’ assessments with regard to how society follows a feminine primary narrative as the correct premise of origin. Put simply, if it benefits women, it benefits society – society is better when benefiting women’s imperatives are its focus.

However, from a ‘bottom up’ perspective it is this proclivity for solipsism in women that collectively becomes the social narrative (or paradigm if you prefer). Millions of women solipsistically expressing the demands that would ensure a secure hypergamy for themselves makes for a fem-centric social narrative. And from this develops an expectation of, and entitlement to a default, secured commitment to satisfying women’s hypergamic impulses.

Selective Breeding

So powerful is this sense of entitlement, so consuming and convinced of the correctness of their purpose is the feminine that women will literally breed and raise generations of men to better satisfy it. Hypergamy is cruel, but nowhere more so than in the relationship between a mother overtly raising and conditioning a son to be a better servant of the feminine imperative.

But to breed a better worker, the feminine imperative’s queens can’t afford to have any corrupting, masculine, outside influence. On a societal scale this might mean removal (either by disincentives or forcibly) of a father from the family unit, but this is the easy, extreme illustration. There are far more subtle social and psychological means that the imperative uses to effect this filtering – via mass media, social doctrines, appeals to (feminized) morality, the feminine is placed as the correct imperative while the masculine is filtered out or apologetically tolerated as vestiges of an immature and crude reminder of masculinity’s incorrectness.

Yet for all of this social engineering Hypergamy still demands satisfaction of women’s most base imperative, Alpha seed. The queens need physically / psychologically dominant drones – if just for a season and at their ovulatory pleasure. While beta workers are endlessly vetted in sisyphean tasks of qualifying for the acceptance of the feminine imperative, the Alpha drones live outside this shell; their qualifications only based on how well they satisfy the feminine’s visceral side of  hypergamy.

The great irony of this social solution to hypergamy and long term parental investment is that the vast majority of the offspring of this arrangement would be raised to be better workers. Those betas-to-be boys must be insulated from the corrupting influence of the drones lest they devolve into the Alphas they crave yet cannot control. It may seem counterintuitive, to raise what should ostensibly be optimized genetic stock as a cowed, sometimes medically restrained, feminized beta males. However it is through this harsh conditioning that truly dominant Alphas must rise above. Essentially the genetic lottery isn’t won by women in such a social environment – it’s men, or the ones who rise above in spite of the conditioning efforts of the feminine imperative.

Generation AFC

We’re just now seeing the results of almost three generations of this selective breeding effort. While women bleat and bemoan, “Man Up!” over the lack of suitable men to meet both their hypergamy and their provisioning, they only grind their teeth at the results of a social momentum set in motion by women two or three generations before them. While more boys are raised to pee sitting down by women concerned that their sons’ testosterone poisoning will make him a potential rapist, the fewer and fewer “suitable” males present themselves 20 years later.

A lot has been made about men just checking out or giving up on themselves as they reach a projected notion of maturity. The feminine complains about them not living up to the standard set before them by the feminine imperative – women are owed reverence and tribute of an enduring security, why are men not sacrificing themselves on the altar of the goddess? In the face of all the so called social advancements in women’s independence over the past 50 years we still hear a deafening cry for ‘real men’ to measure up, to qualify themselves for acceptance, to be worthy of providing for her and (her) offspring. Despite the refutations of masculinity and claims of independence, women still want Men.

In the manosphere it’s been argued that the reason for this sexual disparity and men’s ambivalence is due to some new awareness among men of the way the Game has been rigged against them. It’s been argued that men are consciously opting out – going their own way – in some new social movement causing a de facto ‘marriage strike’. I think this estimation is greatly exaggerated.

The male crisis of this generation isn’t the result of men’s conscious decision to opt out, but rather due to being forced out by this selective breeding. As exampled in my first link, men want to get married. It’s part of their feminized conditioning to view long term monogamy as a goal state. No, the men that women want to “man up” are the ones they’re already married to, or the ones they’d consider worthy if only they acted (not actually became) more like drones and less like dutiful workers.

It’s not that the vast majority of men wouldn’t eagerly bind themselves to women in monogamy, it’s that they’ve been bred in grand proportions to be ‘less-than-men’ by the feminine imperative.


130 responses to “Queens, Workers & Drones

  • Dr. Illusion

    The nice guy would marry them, but they don’t want the nice guy. The alpha with options isn’t going to marry them. Thus, the only thing they can perceive through their solipsistic blinders is that men won’t marry them. Even if there are 5 Nice Guys on their knees holding out rings and on alpha rejecting them. All they see is the Alpha so they bemoan this marriage strike.

  • Big Ern

    Why do y’all call it hypergamy.. shouldn’t you say supergamy? Assuming you are describing a phenomenon of women mating up (i.e. better) and not women mating to some sort of ‘excess’.

  • immoralgables

    Your last paragraph blew my mind. If what you say is true, that the reason why men aren’t getting married anymore is because feminism/hypergamy disqualified them and not because they smartened up to the ruse that marriage; well that is fucking huge.

    Props.

  • Peregrine John

    Don’t forget: Worker bees are defined as “female” simply because they are not male. Worker humans can be identified as “male” similarly.

  • Nick

    The paragraph about the counterintuitive tendency to feminize alpha offspring was eye-opening to me. It’s like another filtering system beyond the “normal” struggles of life for men to overcome if they want to be seen as alphas to women.

    For many years my standard response to the question of marriage has been “sure I’d like to get married one day”. After a year of red-pill education that answer is much different. I’ve never taken a class that’s presented the pluses and minuses of marriage, never had a book on the subject passed on to me by a parent, teacher or mentor, nor have I ever been frankly told what to expect, good or bad. Marriage has always been the idealized end-state. For such a deadly serious, life-altering decision, the subject of marriage is one of the most vaguely presented institutions in our culture.

    Even though this post is depressing, being 29 and just beginning to realize my SMV, I’m very glad that I haven’t gotten married yet and will be very cautious should I ever seriously consider it. Friends my age and younger who are getting married seem like zombies to me. It’s frightening how powerful the conditioning has been. It pains me to think about the divorces and marital disasters I’ll be hearing about over the coming decade.

  • RedPillSchool

    Hey Rollo- having a hard time getting in touch with you. I’m from theredpill over on reddit- Would you be interested in scheduling an AMA (ask me anything) style interview on our subreddit? Get at me at this email address.

  • Augustus_mccrae

    Rollo,

    I’ve been reading your blog since its inception.

    I owe you a debt of gratitude for opening my eyes to the feminine imperative.

    However, this is the first time I’ve felt compelled to comment.

    The ramifications of this post are stunning, absolutely stunning.

    My hat is off to you for bringing this out.

    Augustus

  • Kate

    This article made me think of a parenting question I’ve been wondering about for a while. While playing at the pool, I once again witnessed my little coquette winding up some hapless male victim. Shocked by how mean I felt she was being, I reprimanded her several times to “be nice!” and stop teasing However, I know that being nice doesn’t get anybody anywhere romantically. Nice girls finish last too. This boy had other girls trying to get his attention, but he never gave up chasing my daughter until we left. Should I really be encouraging her to be nice to spare other people’s feelings? Or is that just a romantic death sentence.

  • threealpha

    Good stuff once again, best part of my morning. Like a puzzle that is constantly expanding and being completed at the same time. But I see the world in patterns and systems, all interconnected.

  • oogenhand

    Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
    The REAL three genders of humanity.

  • BPaul.

    @Rollo,

    Excellent piece, I have been thinking along those lines, just couldnt put the pieces together, as I notice I resemble that last paragraph as I have begun my ‘redpill’ journey. I wanted to get married but have realized I am not the material the women I want, want…

    For instance last nite I watched for a second time “The Ghost of Girlfriends Past”. I was stunned that I hadn’t noticed the ALPHA bashing, and the way the ALPHA lifestyle was portrayed with hyperbole, as lonely, and pathetic, and that the best thing a man could do is get married……..

    This scene made me fall out of my chair……

    I have also noticed my friends thinking that I am very negative on women, as I have recommended “SpermWars”, and TheMatingMind to them, then our discussions are all out ego defenses. Its difficult for men that have been acculturated to take this in, hell I have even had trouble with it.

    The proof is in the pudding. As I have practiced more of the ALPHA traits on my ONEitis for practice. I have noticed my ONE has responded differently, extinction burst perhaps? But my attitude has changed. Its like swimming upstream for me at this point, but being aloof and not responding makes her more interested….

    Great work guys, hattip Rollo….

  • 22to28

    I suppose that this discussion begs the question. How should game aware fathers raise their sons to combat a system designed to crush the masculinity out of them so that their sons will grow into the men that women actually desire?

  • cynical optimist

    @ 22to28
    there f**ked from the outset unfortunately, as your aware the majority of highly active male kids are labelled ADD, ADHD or some other diagnosis but it’s just young masculinity. The teachers in pre-school, primary school and secondary school are female I don’t have the stats to back this up although it’s an inference we know the story I guess it around 70% probably higher. Not a good start without a male role model apart from probably the father or football coach. The author of feet and knees together wrote a book on red pill parenting which might be of interest to you

    http://thejumpschool.wordpress.com/

    Great article Rollo, happy New Year gentleman

  • Erudite Knight

    Once, I used to think nothing of dropping everything to move to a new state with a girl. I am so glad I finally learned. Now I hurt when I see my friends wanting to make the same decision.

  • Revo Luzione

    The implications of this post are staggering. It seems to indicate that a vast number of women, both mothers, non-mothers, and mothers-to-be in industrialized nations, are complicit in behavior that is attempting to erase the “sexy sons” effect.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis

    If they succeed, it would wipe out a significant chunk of the advantages of sexual dimorphism and sexual selection.

    Fortunately, wealthier women in industrialized nations have abysmal fertility rates, and are not breeding enough to replace themselves. Their own hubris will be their demographic demise.

    Every time I read a post like this, I feel massive gratitude for my parents, still married after neigh on 50 years, with a natural alpha father, and a naturally feminine and nurturing mother, who, I might add, looks the other way, or is even covertly supportive when I spin plates in a rather obvious way. But I realize that I won the lottery by being born into this rare situation in the modern West. I feel compelled at this point to find a red pill woman and have a bunch of kids.

  • taterearl

    Excellent post.

    I’ll just add the wild card in every interaction with a female is how much T you bring to the table. Find any way you can to naturally get those levels up and avoid the stuff that brings it down.

  • Shameful

    If the desire for resources are so strong isnt the logical endpoint forced labor camps full of effectively castrated men? A world where the alpha are risen up to stand aside as breeding stock while the other males are forced to labor for the “greater good” of society.

  • Team-Red

    @22

    Involve your son in sports such as football, wrestling, and ice hockey that physically push him. Bring him camping, fishing, etc. often and involve him in boy scouts where it’s male only and he is surrounded by peers. Don’t let him play video games all day after school. Teach him that women are different by nature and that men and women are not capable of the same abilities with the most profound differences being physical strength and the ability to get Preggers!

  • Rollo Tomassi

    @22to28 and Cynical, have a read:

    Teachers’ Expectations Can Influence How Students Perform

    This isn’t a smoking gun as such, but it’s a good article in respect to how teacher’s expectations of students adjusts their approach to those students and influences them. What the article fails to detail is that teachers (especially in grammar through high school) are predominantly female and have expectations that boys will be disruptive, unruly and inattentive, thus they intuitively cater their instruction in ways that anticipate this.

    Often enough, women will raise or teach their boys based on the same expectations that the mothers and female teachers we’re taught to expect from them. This ‘unconscious knowledge’ is so pervasive that largely I think mothers and female educators are unaware of their doing so.

  • Mebus

    Regarding the selective breeding and generation AFC:

    Testosterone levels in males in western society continue to drop, and I’m really wondering whether the culprit is just those estrogen analogues (BPA and other) in food and water.

    An important question is whether the male hormonal axis is directly influenced by the perceived social landscape and its conventions, i.e. fem-centrism. Of course, it’s well known that sensory information feeds forward on gene regulation, but this may be more elaborate than previously thought.

  • Anonymous

    Nick – you are correct, it will only get worse. I am 39, in my SMV prime, and over the last decade I have heard the following statements from many close friends:

    Good friend A, married at 23 – “After 15 years of marriage and three kids, even if she cheated on me I wouldn’t leave her because I don’t want to break up the family”

    Good friend B, married at 24 – “We have sex once a month, but only because our therapist requests us to have sex as a “homework assignment” so she complies”

    Good friend C, married at 29 – “She looks around at her friends and they all have two kids, so she feels left out so we are trying for #2″

    Stay true to your convictions brother…

  • A

    > Nice girls finish last too.

    Really now…

  • Team-Red

    The ultimate unplugging for man is the realization that he can have an entire life where his sexual needs are fulfilled without marriage and a wife. That’s the real threat to women and society gentlemen. It’s simply becoming aware of it that is key. This resulted from the acceptance of sex outside of marriage in the west and I for one couldn’t be happier about it as the partner count adds up. With online dating living outside a big city possibilities are endless

  • taterearl

    “If the desire for resources are so strong isnt the logical endpoint forced labor camps full of effectively castrated men? A world where the alpha are risen up to stand aside as breeding stock while the other males are forced to labor for the “greater good” of society.”

    The man who either breeds or gives the middle finger to a society full of lies and is killed for it is an alpha.

    I can see now why martyrs for the truthful cause are held in high esteem.

  • furiousferrett

    “Nice girls finish last too”

    WTF? No No and No. Women aren’t men. Nice girls do finish last when they try to become men and compete like men. This leads them to kill some of their feminity to join ‘the man’s world’. Women should be pleasant and nice when circumstances allow it. Nasty warpigs and she-men are the most vile creatures that plauge modern day western society. Do you really think that any kind of man worth his salt doesn’t see through bitchy aggressive women and choose them over the nice ones? The main aspect that women have to deal with is there is no real way to circumvent beauty. You can’t use degrees, accomplisments and being aggressive like a men to push past this obsticle. Being a mean feminazi will not get women the alpha that they want, it’s simply projection.

    This is the problem I have with Kate. She is just like every other female commenter/blogger. It just seems like every thing she does is a slight sabotage of every main point that the sphere puts out there. She takes some concepts here and there and then subverts it towards some type of ‘compromise’. It’s just straight bullshit.

  • Kate

    I’m not trying to be offensive, Ferrett. Its certainly nothing for you to get worked up about. As far as I can tell, its the truth. From my own personal experiences, I’ve found that being nice does not equate to attraction from men. Nice is boring. And the average person appears to NEED drama or kaybe just more vivacity. It seems that a lot of men look to women for something akin to entertainment.

  • furiousferrett

    “I’ve found that being nice does not equate to attraction from men”

    You’re right, being physically attractive is what attracts alpha men to women. Then he decides if you have a feminine nice personality to determine whether it’s pump n dump or has the potential for LTR. However, without the hotness baseline, there isn’t anything you can do, so modern day women think they can use male traits to get ahead. It works on weak men and it inadvertingly allows them to be used as cumrags for alphas.

    It’s not just you Kate, it seems to be every single woman acts like a friend but there is always a catch. They will distract, redefine, confuse and lead astray. Roosh doesn’t allow women on his board for a good reason, he’s a smart guy because he knows that they will try to control and grab for a piece of the power pie. It’s bullshit because this our space and it seems that very rarely do women actually offer value and if they said the same comments as a guy, people would either ignore and or ridcule. The only women that I have seen offer good insight are the ones that are self identified sluts and tell it like it is like rappaccini’s daughter commenter.

  • Ace Haley

    Reading this about how a lot of men can’t measure up to the hypergamy of women made me think of some stories I’ve heard where the guy struggled with women in his 20s and when he was close to turning 30 or was already, he was suddenly good enough because now he had money. At least that’s how the story goes.

    That must be hell. Working 10 years to finally get something? Damn

  • Philalethes

    “Males are a breeding experiment conducted by females.” (Dunno who first wrote this, saw it on a forum some years back. Seems to apply. Only they haven’t a clue to what they’re actually doing.)

    The link above to “My Son, My Protector: Raising a Son with Feminist Values” was truly horrifying. Haunted eyes on that little boy.

    Some years back I was set up with a “date” with a woman from Berkeley (used to live there myself 50 years ago) who told me she’d decided to quit being a lesbian. Why? It was too “boring”. Then she proceeded to tell me how proud she was of her little son (artificially inseminated) insisting to his playmates that fathers really aren’t necessary. She was far beyond her sell-by date, and wouldn’t have been attractive to me even when young; I got outta there.

    Sheesh.

  • Ace Haley

    “It’s been argued that men are consciously opting out – going their own way – in some new social movement causing a de facto ‘marriage strike’. I think this estimation is greatly exaggerated.”

    Mark Minter said one time that the rate of 35-40 year-old-women who were never married has only increased by 4% the last 10 years.

    If that was true, damn right this has been exaggerated. I still think most men have no issue getting married, divorce laws be damned. That’s how much men love women, if you can even call it “love”

  • taterearl

    @Kate

    Being a nice girl is like being a physically attractive guy. It’s still important but a secondary trait of attraction. What brings guys in is your physical attractiveness…just like what brings you in is a guy’s attitude.

  • Ace Haley

    Men have created a big market for sex and they’ve overvalued the product. There’s a story I heard one time about a tribal woman who, after her man killed, dressed and cooked a game animal, thanked her vagina. He protested, saying that he had done everything to bring food to her stomach. She agreed, then said that he would not have done what he did if it weren’t for her vagina.

    I just thought I had to add this in. It’s kind of important

  • furiousferrett

    The issue is she was advocating that being nice is a deterent to being attractive to men. That is fucking stupid. This kind of attitude is everything that is wrong with western women. They think that being sweet is bad!!!! WTF? They actually believe that being agressive will get them the men they want when it’s the last thing in the world that they should be doing. It all stems that they think that they can overcome the beauty aspect like a man can. This coming from a woman that frequents these blogs quite frequently. Even if she can’t see that what hope do you hold for the average woman?

    It’s just so easy to define what women bring to the table:
    1) Physically attractiveness
    2) Being pleasant, nice and sweet.

    It’s just that it’s so hard to excel at point 1 in the land of cheetos, soda and ice cream that the girls scream ‘Fuck It’ and disregard point 2 in favor of acting like a guy because they are using projection.

  • taterearl

    @Ferret…

    In the land of Cheetos, soda, and soy, it also makes it harder for men to excel in their manly attitude…so they just retreat to video games and porn because they are defeated.

  • Kate

    @ spud: right

    *sigh* nevermind. Ferrett says, “We don’t even want nice girls on our blogs. We only want sluts here.” And then you say being nice is a good thing. All I’m doing is pointing out the hypocrisy, which is what you object to, really. Men don’t want nice girls. End of story. Its just as much a lie as saying women want nice men.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Nice girls finish last huh?

    Wow.

    Nice (read-FEMININE) women can drive high value men to move mountains. Instead of complementing men you would rather compete with them, and this is the end result. Lose-lose.

    Makes you want to grab women, shake them and yell “WAKE THE FUCK UP!”

  • taterearl

    @ Kate

    A bad attitude can sink even a hot woman…just like a beta attitude can sink a physically attractive man.

    If you weren’t blessed by winning the genetic lottery you can’t afford to have a bitchy attitude or not do anything to give the world the best you got. In fact having a better attitude will improve your looks naturally. Fat loves to stick around in an angry, stressed out individual.

    I learned game to improve my chances with women because I couldn’t afford not to…that was a complete personality overhaul from many years of brainwashing. It’s much easier for a woman to look better.

  • 1 Woman's View

    “It is in fact Men who are more prone to wanting commitment from a woman. ”

    I’ve always known this. In all my relationships with men, including non sexual ones, they were the first to say I love you. They were the first to ask why I wasn’t saying I love you back. They were the first to use endearing terms like “baby” “sweetheart” “my love” etc. They were the first to want commitment, even when I suggested we both take it slow and keep our options open, dating other people.

  • furiousferrett

    “*sigh* nevermind. Ferrett says, “We don’t even want nice girls on our blogs. We only want sluts here.” And then you say being nice is a good thing. All I’m doing is pointing out the hypocrisy, which is what you object to, really. Men don’t want nice girls. End of story. Its just as much a lie as saying women want nice men.”

    It’s just that the sluts speak the truth whereas the other women try to spin everything around and confuse. The self identified slut doesn’t have to hide her nature because she accepts it. All the ‘good girls’ are really sluts but use deception and cognitive dissonance to spin the truth.

    Plus you are confusing sexual promicousity with having a sweet disposition. I respect the truthful slut while abhoring the wannabe good girl. I think that a slut that says I’m a slut is having much more virtue. She is who she is. If you are with her you know what you are jumping into. It’s honest. That’s why I think that the weird artsy girls are the best. They might be batshit insane sometimes but they don’t hide it. I’m finding them much more enjoyable than the SWPL modern day woman.
    “Men don’t want nice girls. End of story. Its just as much a lie as saying women want nice men.””
    This is simply false. Men do want a nice girl. They are absolutely do. They don’t want a bitch. You have to be seriously delusional if you think they want a bitch. It’s only men without options that put up with one. They certainly don’t like it. Why the hell do you think that going overseas is gaining steam because the women there aren’t super bitches. Do you really think that guys really like traveling to eastern europe to find pleasant women if they could just walk aside and have them at their finger tips? How the hell can you read CH and Rollo every day and still have these ass backwards beliefs? Just further proof you just have your own agenda and don’t give a fuck about what is taught.

  • Kate

    You’re right. I’ve come here to overthrow all order. Darn, you saw through me :) Now what.

    Rollo: Get caught doing what? Donating money to the library? Baking cupcakes for school birthdays? Thanking bag boys for their sevice?

  • 1 Woman's View

    “I respect the truthful slut while abhoring the wannabe good girl. ”

    So do many women respect the truthful cad while abhoring the trademarked wannabe “nice guy”.

    At least we know where we stand with the honest cad. If and when we’re feeling really horny and up for no strings attached sex, we know who to booty call.

  • Vicomte

    Kate,

    Who we want to date and who we want to discuss gender dynamics with are, unsurprisingly, two different kinds of women.

    For example, I wouldn’t date 1 Woman’s View, but she seems like a good choice for aforementioned discussion.

  • furiousferrett

    @Kate

    Explain then how the hell you can make statements that ‘Good girls finish last’ when you have this site and CH every day for years. CH consistently speaks on how men hate these neo-feminists with a central theme of them acting masculine, bitchy and rejecting the thought of being nice. Being nice is what men want from women. Modern day women have said I’m independent and bitchy and you’re just going to have to deal with it. By the way I’m going to have the government and white knights back me up so I can be a bitch. All we want is for women to go back to being nice and put down the ice cream.

    @1 Woman’s View

    “So do many women respect the truthful cad while abhoring the trademarked wannabe “nice guy”.”

    This is just standard way of tearing down beta males. Most of the guys that are nice are geniuely nice guys but being guys they still want to fuck. They were taught by women that being nice and respectful lead to being attractive so they were brought up to behave this way. It’s no uniqueness or virtue for a woman to call ‘nice guys’ as really horrible digusting perverts while rewarding the bad boy.

  • itsme

    Nice girls finish last too. This boy had other girls trying to get his attention, but he never gave up chasing my daughter until we left.

    this just means the boy was only interested in pumping and dumping your daughter, not marrying her.

  • michaeltx

    Fantastic Write-up Rollo;

    Thank you once again.

  • Kate

    Vicomte: Okay…I would think you’d like to hear from the kinds of women you’d like to date…

    Ferrett: Don’t jump to the conclusion that just because I said men don’t like nice that means I think men like bitches. I am far from advocating entitlement and I realize that it is a turn off to men. I’m simply saying there’s more to it than looking good and being sweet.

    GLC: As far as women competing with men, well, its not really their choice anymore. Who is offering to support them to take them out of the work force? Those men are in scant supply. Unless a man is wooing his virgin bride with plans to support her and their family, there aren’t much grounds to that argument. Yes, feminine women can inspire incredible things in men. But that too is rare. Most people are, well, average.

    itsme: She six! :) What I was originally asking is if we want to be raising children to fix some of the problems we’re currently facing, which is something I thought the article was talking about, how should we be raising them? To be “nice”? Or to be successful with the opposite sex?

  • Martel

    A question regarding Mebus’ earlier comment about T-levels among western men being on the decline:

    Roissy observed a couple of weeks back how there seem to be a lot more manjaws out there than before, and I see a lot of college-aged guys seeming especially effeminate and narrow-shouldered, and twirpy.

    I have a theory that if you’re a boy who’s raised to eschew fighting games and taught to be in touch with your emotions, it might lower your T production and/or raise E levels. Girls might have the reverse effect if they’re taught to be confrontational.

    Is anyone aware of any research regarding this? Could raising a feminine boy make him alter his muscular development or lower his testosterone later in life?

    Just a theory, but wondering if anyone had any thoughts.

  • Vicomte

    Martel,

    It probably does have an effect on actual hormone levels, as studies have shown things like body language and physical activity do alter androgen levels, but I think any increase in twerpyness is probably more due to the recent widespread acceptance of said twerpyness.

    The vast majority of men will not have a lean, muscular, masculine body without proper diet and training. Many of the twerps could turn themselves around physically if they desired to do so. Fifty years ago one had little choice.

  • Mucius scaevola

    The deck truly is stacked against men. My mom pushed my dad out of my life and filled me with as much beta bullshit as she could. She badmouthed him constantly and tried to make me the opposite of the assholes she dAted. She insisted we go to joint counseling sessions when I became too “aggressive” as a teenager and she could no longer control me. It was the therapist’s opinion that I had aspergers as a child and grew out of it by watching a lot of tv. ( how the fuck do you “grow out of” aspergers?) single motherhood is a cancer.

    As a side note get those T levels up gents. Be bpa free, dont use the microwave, no plastic water bottles, filter your own water, work out with heavy weights, eat creatine etc

  • mumtaz

    ‘ From my own personal experiences, I’ve found that being nice does not equate to attraction from men. ‘
    Actually, it’s being nice man that doesn’t equate to attraction from women.Nice woman means sweet and pleasant , that is attractive.
    ‘ Nice is boring. ‘
    That’s exactly what women think.
    ‘ And the average person appears to NEED drama or kaybe just more vivacity. ‘
    No , it’s average WOMAN who seeks drama . For a man , coming home after day of hard work , drama is the LAST thing he wants…
    ‘ It seems that a lot of men look to women for something akin to entertainment ‘
    Again, swap sexes and it rings true.
    Also notice anecdotal evidence…

    Overall , prime example of projection combined with female solipsism.

  • T.Jr

    this stuff should be common sense to all you red pill guys. you can see a micro example of this at any popular bar or club.

  • Michael

    What is “AFC” ?

  • furiousferrett

    “Overall , prime example of projection combined with female solipsism.”

    What’s worse is that she comments all the time on these sites and nothing has sunk in.

    Everytime I see her comment and offer some type of advice, it goes something like this: We all want to be loved and be happy with each other, Buy this book by some mainstream author on relationships, blah blah blah. It’s just standard neo-feminism lite.

    I’m like WTF? Did you not just read any of the articles? Why do you even come to these blogs if you just disregard everything that they say? You’re not helping any men and probably just confusing them if they listen to you.

    She’s just a space cadet reporting for duty. My impression of Kate.

  • Erudite Knight

    I read that womens article, and the hypocrisy is so easy to see. She is upset that the kid might grow up to want to ‘protect’ her.

    The mom shows indignation at this. Yet, women live by this, the ‘sacraficing’ element male have for women.

  • Johnycomelately

    Brilliant post, never cease to amaze.

    Mothers creating Betas drones is the most apt model for mothers’ behaviours towards creating ‘nancy boys’ I have seen. A corollary to that is when they are too successful their sons tend to become gay, particularly when the husband is hyper masculine (just a personal anecdotal observation).

    I love the MGTOW (self avowed) schema, essentially you are saying they (we) are rejecting being rejected, a form of psychological defence whereby they create the illusion of control, preemptively rejecting rejection.

    Have to agree with Kate here, there is a difference between asexual nice girls and sexual nice girls, the asexual types seem to have repressed their sexuality to such an extant that they don’t give off any ‘signals’ and are very rarely if ever approached by men (I know several women like this type and all are still virgins in their 30s).

  • CassMan

    Take this for what it is worth.

    I have arguably learned more about Male and Female realities in today’s SMP from reading the female comments on these blogs than the actual content of the blogs themselves. This is saying something given how good the content here is.

    It was a clever move on RT’s part to allow female input, unmoderated. What this allows us is to watch the female mind at work, which better illustrates the author’s points.

    I have come to the conclusion that Women are going to make this job a lot easier for Men so long as we give them the ability to exhibit their nature to us, and one way of doing this successfully is giving them access here and allowing them to validate what some of us have known all of our lives through various interactions and observations.

    Some of the clearest, most succinct examples of solipsism live right here in the comments section of this very blog. Females feel compelled to come to the aid of the feminine imperative and perpetuate these very points. The fact that these Women cannot see what they are doing is the best example one can provide a Male who is awaiting the Red Pill.

    Never, ever let Women stop being a part of this community RT, it serves a great purpose. I have seen Dalrock produce several blog posts that were a directly result of feminine input from a previous post. The ground-work for his point is already laid out by them, unwittingly.

    What more can you ask for?

  • Kate

    Johny, what are these signals? An air traffic controller might be needed in some cases :)

  • Martel

    Vicomte: You make sense to an extent, because I know males won’t usually get particularly muscular unless they work for it. However, that doesn’t explain the predominance of manjaws on females.

    I can’t prove it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if encouraging cross-gender characteristics in a child had permanent physical effects.

    And this post was incredible. I think it’s the perfect compelement to “Promise Keepers”.

  • Mucius scaevola

    @martel take a look at the dj bible on rollo’ s blog roll if you havent already. There is a post there called the secret of the jerk and might have have what your looking for. talks about effects of T on both genders. Lots of info there might be what your looking for

  • 1 Woman's View

    “Have to agree with Kate here, there is a difference between asexual nice girls and sexual nice girls, the asexual types seem to have repressed their sexuality to such an extant that they don’t give off any ‘signals’ and are very rarely if ever approached by men (I know several women like this type and all are still virgins in their 30s).”

    I was one of those, still am to some extent. Its because I find most people in this country, both male and female, physically unattractive and don’t want to be approached by them. When I see a man I’m attracted to, I wont “give off signals” – I’ll just approach him. And that’s rare unless I’m visiting a country that is known for attractive faces.

  • 1 Woman's View

    “This is just standard way of tearing down beta males. Most of the guys that are nice are geniuely nice guys but being guys they still want to fuck. They were taught by women that being nice and respectful lead to being attractive so they were brought up to behave this way. It’s no uniqueness or virtue for a woman to call ‘nice guys’ as really horrible digusting perverts while rewarding the bad boy.”

    Deception is bad. Honesty is good.

  • GT66

    Shameful “If the desire for resources are so strong isnt the logical endpoint forced labor camps full of effectively castrated men? A world where the alpha are risen up to stand aside as breeding stock while the other males are forced to labor for the “greater good” of society.”

    Yeah, it’s called “court ordered child support.”

  • E.J.

    Barbarossa did a video about this. He refers to this phenomenon as “spousification.”

    Single mom psychology, seeks the spousification of male sons

    He goes a step further and explains how it contributes to gang violence.

  • GT66

    Kate “All I’m doing is pointing out the hypocrisy, which is what you object to, really. Men don’t want nice girls. End of story. Its just as much a lie as saying women want nice men.”

    The error you are making is assuming that the way men are using the word “nice” to describe women is the same as the way women use the word “nice” to describe men in this context.

  • 1 Woman's View

    Barbarossa, really? Can we expect Thugtician next?

  • Vicomte

    Martel,

    I have no idea about the females, but I do know that even small amounts of exogenous testosterone (or other anabolic steroids) can have significant and permanent effects on a woman’s body. The amounts necessary for things like changes in bone structure, body hair development, and voice change can be quite small.

    If there was some environmental stimulus for increased testosterone in prepubescent/pubescent women, I imagine it wouldn’t take much to ramp up the manjaws.

  • GT66

    1 Woman’s View “Barbarossa, really? Can we expect Thugtician next?”

    Classic imperative – how dare a man have an opinion about something that affects males. So, yeah, Barbarossaaaa. Really.

  • DeNihilist

    Kate – {I’ve found that being nice does not equate to attraction from men. Nice is boring. And the average person appears to NEED drama or kaybe just more vivacity. It seems that a lot of men look to women for something akin to entertainment.}

    From “Had Enough Therapy” today –

    {in his words:

    “One reason for the epidemic of self-destructiveness that has struck British, if not the whole of Western, society, is the avoidance of boredom. For people who have no transcendent purpose to their lives and cannot invent one through contributing to a cultural tradition (for example), in other words who have no religious belief and no intellectual interests to stimulate them, self-destruction and the creation of crises in their life is one way of warding off meaninglessness. I have noticed, for example, that women who frequent bad men – that is to say men who are obviously unreliable, drunken, drug-addicted, criminal, or violent, or all of them together, have often had experience of decent men who treat them well, with respect, and so forth: they are the ones with whom their relationships lasted the shortest time, because they were bored by decency. Without religion or culture (and here I mean high, or high-ish, culture) evil is very attractive. It is not boring.”
    In a world that has made a fetish out of feeling, it is worth noting that more and more people require excessive stimulation to feel anything. }

    http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.ca/2013/01/dalrymple-on-culture.html

  • E.J.

    @1 Woman’s View
    “Barbarossa, really? Can we expect Thugtician next?”

    Sure, I’ll take requests.

  • Rellz

    This post is some of your best work from another lurker in the mist.

    I just came back from eastern europe visting my GF over xmas, half jet lagged and you wanna know what, doesn’t matter if you are beta AFC shluck over there because she told me many stories of some of her good friends going thru divorce or leaving their husbands due to ACTUAL PHYSICAL VIOLENCE not the now legal version of abuse in Australia which includes talking bad to the dog if it shits on your carpet abuse.

    This is after years of abuse because they see no other option. Most women don’t have the ability to milk the government for support and it takes a lot more effort to get services like free health care and rent assistance even if you are a single woman with 3 kids…

    We nearly changed plans to ski in the Czech alps because of a girl from her ballet school was leaving her husband and needed a place to stay somewhere.

    I am to her, the ideal mate coming from a mostly beta raised Australian childhood (aka same as the American school of thought) I rarely have to game her because she SEE’s what the world is like with local men.

  • 1 Woman's View

    Thugtician’s voice is one of the sexiest I’ve ever heard. I normally loathe UK accents but there’s a certain one, when mixed with the naturally delectable barritone pitch of the African man that is completely multiple-tingle worthy — and Thug’s is one such.

    I don’t agree with every thing he says, but I’ll defend to the death his right to say it ;)

  • 1 Woman's View

    RE: high T women. Women who brag about owning guns and hunting, killing, beheading and skinning animals are unfeminine, high T women. Yet you see in the Manosphere a complete adoration for such women. These dudes actually think a woman who does all that is “sexy” and “wife material”.

  • Society's Disposable Son

    “In a world that has made a fetish out of feeling”

    This is so damn true… how about a “fuck your feelings” t-shirt…. anyone?

  • DrT

    1 woman does not understand the etymology of the screen name “Barbarossaaa”. Lack of education?

  • DeNihilist

    Society’s – I’d be in for one. When I was a teen I had a yellow t-shirt imprinted with – ” I’d rather be, leg hold trapping”

    I wore that sucker to the final thread!

  • Emma the Emo

    Of course guys are not attracted to nice, anymore than women are attracted to nice. Guys are attracted to tits, ass and face. Niceness can only mean anyghing after the guy got hooked by something else.

    They are also easily intimidated away from approaching you if you look shy. Shy looks like “I don’t want to talk to you”. And I also think they don’t like approaching someone who isn’t giving any go-ahead signals at all..

    Nicegirls, aren’t you also approached only by the trashiest or/and boldest men? Those that either have nothing to lose by approaching, or have too much confidence?

  • Emma the Emo

    Unfortunately a lot of guys would date a bitch because of how hot she is. Or because he thinks it’s the best he could do, or the only thing he can get. Also, many guys in the manosphere admitted they loved the makeup sex they got with a BPD woman, which isn’t as fun as normal sex. So there you have it, some men are not into nice&boring. They’d rather have crazy. Perhaps not bitchy, but crazy, yes.

    I have sympathy for guys stuck with bitches cuz their only other choice is celibacy, but no sympathy for guys addicted to highs and lows. Good thing most men I met don’t seem to require so much drama though.

  • Kate

    GT66: You’re absolutely right.

    DeNihilist: Yes! Yes! Yes! Oh, that was very interesting. Thanks for sharing it.

    Emma: “Nicegirls, aren’t you also approached only by the trashiest or/and boldest men? Those that either have nothing to lose by approaching, or have too much confidence?” It is a sadly common occurrance to see the nicest girls at school with the thugiest.

    Regarding solipsism: Yes, it is that, of course, but its also empiricism. It makes sense to trust my experiences and those of thousands of others with similar experiences vs. listening to what I am told. Isn’t that the very thing men are doing here? Looking at what really works vs. what they’ve been told to believe?

  • furiousferrett

    @To All the Women Here

    Men are attracted to nice personalities. However, you must be a certain level of hotness for the alphas that you want. So what happens is that you aren’t good looking enough for the alpha to want you as a good girl so you use sexually agressiveness and games to get him to notice you and he does notice you and uses you as his fucktoy of the month. Then you get all emotionally hurt when the relationship falls apart and become some bitter hag and then not being nice becomes genuine.

    The master key to this matter is as with everything a woman says just add ‘alpha male’ to the mix and it all makes sense.

    How the hell is this so hard to understand?

    @1 woman’s view

    Your hamster is strong lady.

    “I was one of those, still am to some extent. Its because I find most people in this country, both male and female, physically unattractive and don’t want to be approached by them. When I see a man I’m attracted to, I wont “give off signals” – I’ll just approach him. And that’s rare unless I’m visiting a country that is known for attractive faces.”

    Are you bragging about having a massive bitch shield and that you when you’re attracted to a man you don’t have any feminine charm that you simply approach like a man?

    “Deception is bad. Honesty is good.”

    This is funny since women are the grand masters of deception. The reason you say this is because you want to weed out the betas so they have a duty to completely honest.

    @Cassman

    You’re definitely right. These woman are examples sent from heaven of the hamster at work. Even women that have read Rollo and CH for at least a year. They absorb nothing. I think they just read the articles simply to point out where they disagree.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Re: NIce Girls, Kate read the link I provide for you before you go popping off next time.

    Good Girls ‘Do’

    Niceties in women are still trumped by Hypergamy. Both the ‘crazy bitch’ and the ‘nice girl’ are still competing in the same sexual sweepstakes for the best Alpha they have the capacity to attract. Crazy uses a direct approach, Nice uses and indirect approach.

    The reason ‘crazy’ sells better to men than ‘nice’ is because ‘crazy’ is associated with sexual availability, ‘nice’ is not. You can take two equally attractive women, HB8.5, one ‘nice’ the other ‘crazy’ and my subconscious expectations from the ‘nice’ one would be sexual inhibition, where as the ‘crazy’ signals better sexual performance.

    Both of these characterizations are the result of an evolution of a woman’s character according to her life’s conditions. Nice is just as much a breeding strategy as crazy, it just developed along a different series of circumstance.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    This is pretty much the argumentative process women on the internet expect from anyone who disagrees with them.

  • furiousferrett

    “You can take two equally attractive women, HB8.5, one ‘nice’ the other ‘crazy’ and my subconscious expectations from the ‘nice’ one would be sexual inhibition, where as the ‘crazy’ signals better sexual performance. ”

    This is the question that matters the most to women. Who would the alpha commit to?

  • taterearl

    I’d say this is pretty accurate. If women watched what they eat and exercised they could easily get into the attractive category.

    http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/feminine-beauty-is-highly-controllable.html

  • Lib Arts Major Making $31k a Year at an Office Job

    “Generation AFC” has done a great job of producing Brevik, Cho, Laughner, Sodini, Holmes, and now recently Lanza among scores of others who never got a bodycount high enough to make the news.

    Here’s to a new generation of defects.

    Or should I say products working as intended?

  • Marcus

    A cartoon form ’54:

    Hypergamy and awareness of men about this nature of woman seem to be of all time. This is gold!

  • Mebus

    @lib arts major

    Some guy recently had a great comment:

    “Either women will get cocked…or guns will”

  • Matthew King (King A)

    So, Kate, how was your first online gangbang?

  • Lib Arts Major Making $31k a Year at an Office Job

    @Marcus
    Interesting that Donald is writing from the Foreign Legion. Perhaps back in ’54, it held a little more romance than it does now, as you rarely see or hear about it in modern times. It’s still there however – there was an interesting little show on the BBC recently with Bear Gryllis called “Escape to the Legion” that illustrates some of what it takes to join up, although it’s not quite as romantic as you might think.

    Even so, The Legion is a far cry from what our military has become with the country trying desperately to make it ever more politically correct.

    @Mebus
    I don’t posit that all of those Men did what they did due to feminism, but I do posit that feminism had a part in it. Loughner, Sodini, and Cho all had problems with girlfriends – either losing one or not being able to get one. Brevik and Lanza both had solo mothers who were incompetent at best or willfully abusive at worst. Holmes would be the questionable one – although his documented proclivity for prostitutes points at an issue related to his interactions with women.

  • Matthew King (King A)

    The word “nice” is a red herring. Nobody wants “nice,” as in, bland, weak, feckless, retreating, conflict-avoiding, shrinking, useless, cowardly. Not in women, and certainly not in men.

    Women possess strength, but it is an altogether different strength than masculine power. It is indirect, passive, pliant, accommodating, and charming, not spineless, inert, or “nice.” Kate is actually a good example of feminine strength, absorbing invective without allowing it to change her disposition — and without running away.

    Someone above said men don’t want bitches. Well, I want bitches so I can de-bitchify them, and bend that ill-directed strength toward better ends.

    I can split hairs about the difference between “sweet” (sincerity) and “nice” (falseness), but suffice it to say, nice is a mask and a shield whereas sweetness is the candy center of a good woman’s soul.

    How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

    Matt

  • AD

    “Brendan was everything I wanted in a man,” Nickles said. “He was unpredictable, smart, and passionate. I knew he wasn’t perfect, but he was really fun to be around–which is more than I can say for him now.” Just weeks into the relationship, Nickles began to notice changes. “It started pretty early,” Nickles said. “Instead of being the wild man he’d been, more and more he’d just stay home like a lump, even on nights I told him it was okay if he went out.”

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/girlfriend-changes-man-into-someone-shes-not-inter,1507

  • The eventual state of both Game and our race: Dysgenics | Erudite Knight – On the search for truth

    [...] have been thinking about this a lot lately, and after reading this post: http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/queens-workers-drones/ it helped crystallize some of my ideas about the state of not just our nation but a majority of the [...]

  • Erudite Knight

    You had some damn good points here, but I ultimately have to disagree with your conclusion that it is feminism that has forced males out of marriage.

    It is NOT the females advantage to have males avoiding marriage. And while it is true if a woman can get a working slave she will take it, when vast droves are avoiding it eventually it hits a point where a woman wants marriage but there is not a male to satisfy.

    Further, do you think the ghetto trash or trailer parks care at all about the concept of marriage? Those people are cranking kids out, leaving ‘educated whites’ in the dust. So wheter they are ‘alpha’ or not is beside the point that marriage has nothing to do with the success biologically of these hell holes.

  • Erudite Knight

    Ha, that donald video was pretty spot on. Looks like he was one of the first males to take the pill!

  • AAB

    ‘Calling a guy a ‘commitment-phobe’ is really a 90′s shaming cliché that’s been a retread for the Man Up! generation.’

    That and it’s just women projecting their own mind-set onto men. It’s something that they seem to do for a few of their other failings, be it immaturity: ‘you need to grow up! (when she has a bedroom full of stuffed toys); or sexual mindset: ‘men think about sex every six seconds’ (when she spends her time reading fifty shades of grey and chatting about office romance). Though why they feel the need to project only negative thoughts onto men I don’t know.

  • taterearl

    Man Daisy really rode the duck carousel.

  • Kate

    Sorry, Rollo. I didn’t think that was a link. I even scrolled over it to check and I thought it was just underlined. Anyway, I’ve read the article now and I absolutely agree with you that anyone at anytime is just a second away from some such similar action unless they have pretty strict control of themselves. The same can be said of violence. We cannot ever say what we would not do; we can only ever make claims on what we have not yet done.

    As for popping off, the only place I pop off to is to my job, which I naturally got by bludgeoning several men to a bloody pulp in my unquenchable desire to overthrow men’s ambitions to become secondary English teachers ;)

    Hmmm. So I guess it would be safe to say, “We’re never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy”?

    @King: I can take a licking and keep on ticking.

  • 3rd Millenium Men

    So much insight in just the first few sentences Rollo!!

    “As I’ve stated in many prior posts, it is Men, not women who are the True Romantics.”

    Absolutely. And that’s why it’s so counter-intuitive for many men when their girlfriends react badly to gifts and flowers. It’s also men who are prone to chase too soon and to fall in love too quickly, as you say. It’s largely based on brain chemistry.

    “It is actually Men who will more readily alter their lives in the most radical of ways to achieve what they think is an idyllic state of monogamy with their ‘Woman of Quality’.”

    Again very true, which is why I continually have to remind my students to be strong men, and never lessen or shrink themselves to conform to the woman’s world. Also to never give too much away – the woman should always be the one in awe of him, his masculine purpose and dominance.

    “It is in fact Men who are more prone to wanting commitment from a woman. The operative word here is “wanting” commitment.”

    Again, true. the overeagerness of men is a constant killer of attraction. Better to sit back. As Glenn P says, it’s better to sit back and wait – “You can always recover from not responding to chick but once you say or do something that isn’t right, it makes it that much more difficult to get back on track.”

    http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/manosphere-the-peaks-and-troughs-of-attracting-women-picking-up-text-messaging-advice/

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