In the last comment thread Rational Male regular, Glenn, had an interesting exchange that went like this:
My marriage exactly. And she really did turn on me by the time my daughter was 2, also having two miscarriages. It was as though a switch went off and she simply fucking hated me. In my case, I had too much dignity and many women who were interested in me who seemed quite fine, so I put my foot down and my ex then just began an affair with a Plan B she had in the wings (hotties always have a Plan B guys, especially wives). She married him and destroyed him too, but it wrecked my relationship with my daughter along the way. So much destruction and pain.
I often look back on my marriage now from the RP perspective and have started to blame myself for not being more dominant and not seeing shit tests for what they were etc, but I also wonder if there was anything I could have done? She was hot, there were always good looking guys willing to fuck her ā I mean, is it just inevitable for some women?
As I’m finishing up the final edits of the next book, I’m once again reminded of its main purpose ā a cautionary explanation of what men can expect of contemporary women at the various phases of their maturity. In Anger Management I detailed the anger men direct at themselves, not at the women who followed a natural predictable ‘flow’ of rationalizations and social conventions they can be expected to as their conditions in life dictate. Naturally any anger a man may deal with or express in this regard is always presumed to be directed towards women. A feminine dominant social order is one founded on the innate solipsism of women.
Now, before I dig in a bit deeper here, I want to make clear that while Glenn’s comment started my thinking process about this week’s topic, what I’m going to get at here isn’t a reflection on anything personal. His story of being “turned on” by a wife he believed was playing on his team is a very common one related by many a post-divorced man using the hindsight of a Red Pill lens.
I’m adding this caveat since only Glenn can really say for himself whether his mindset at the time he first met, and later married, the wife who turned on him was colored by Blue Pill idealism and / or a Beta self-perception. My guess, as with most men in his situation, was that he actually had what was a realistic expectation of a reciprocal relationship based on what he thought would be her genuine appreciation of his efforts and merits.
Betas at the Epiphany
I’ve discussed in several prior threads the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks strategy women use in both the short and long term. What I think needs a bit more explanation is the long term effects of that strategy on the Beta man’s mindset as a result of his fem-centric conditioning.
When a woman approaches and enters into her Epiphany Phase, she has a limbic understanding that her genetic chips need to be cashed in with a man who has ‘proper’ long term provisioning potential. For the greater part, those men are at least expected by women to have a Blue Pill, Beta conditioning that will make them more compliant with, now, what’s becoming an unignorable open Hypergamy.
These are the men Sheryl Sandberg describes as,
“ā¦someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.”
These are nice euphemisms used to describe a man willing to accept his position of powerlessness in the grand scheme of feminine-primacy and open Hypergamy for his participation in realizing women’s dominant sexual strategy.
The Beta man encountering this new found attraction convinces himself that women’s interest in him is genuine and organic. In a sense it is, but although this attraction (not to be confused with arousal) is perceived as genuine on the part of women, it’s an attraction born of necessity. That necessity is the need to consolidate on monogamy with a man who’ll willingly ignore not just her past Alpha Fucks indiscretions, but participate in what he’s been conditioned to believe is his duty as a man from society and start to build a “mature adult” life with her.
A Beta at the Epiphany phase believes his ship has finally come in and his self-righteous AFC strategy of patience and perseverance will be rewarded. The social conventions at the time make him believe he’s to be more lauded for ‘forgiving’ a woman’s past, irrespective of whether he can expect praise for looking past her misgivings.
The Alpha Widow orĀ carousel riding wife-to-be may then convince herself that she in fact actually sees an Alpha potential, or a potential for long term success, in ‘settling’ on that Beta in the long term. While I have had men relate horror stories about women knowing that they were settling and being insecure about their futures before or at the time of their wedding, I’m going to suggest that this foreknowledge is rarelyĀ a conscious aspect of women’s insight. “Turning” on their husband-to-be later in is life rarelyĀ a preconceived plan, but it is a predictable outcome for men who persist in a Beta mindset throughout their marriages.
Getting Her Settled Best
Saving the Best continues to be a seminal post on Rational Male, not the least of which because so many men could relate to the experience. However, this may not have been the experience of discovering a sexual past his wife had no intention of ever allowing him to share with her , but rather the expectation men have of receiving a woman’s ‘sexual best’ in marriage. That may not amount to the sexual experimentation she had in her Party Years, but forĀ a Beta who believes his patience and virtue are to be rewarded at long last it is an expectation of enjoying the same or better sexual urgency his wife-to-be shared with her past lovers.
That Beta believes it’s his turn, because why else would a woman commit to a lifetime investment in a man she didn’t think was her best option?
Remember, during the Epiphany Phase a woman’s rationale for choosing the Beta for a long term investment is because she’s “experienced it all” and finally “knows better than to keep dating the Bad Boys who don’t appreciate her.” Thus the Beta believes heĀ must be the best option for her by virtue of her investment in that belief.
And if she’s finally come to realize he’s the best option, why would sheĀ notĀ expect to enjoy her best sexual performance with him? After all, even Sheryl Sandberg said, “ā¦in time, nothing’s sexier.”
For the Alpha Widow marrying the Beta-in-waiting, the comparison of his sexual appeal with prior lovers conflicts with her need to finalize the long term security she couldn’t with her previous Alphas (or the men she perceived as Alpha). Thus comes reserved, self-restrained and self-conscious sex with her new Beta provider.Ā She knows that sex with her Beta lacks the intensity of her prior lovers, but falls back on her Epiphany Phase rationalizations that she’s “doing it for the right reasons this time”.
That right reason being of course getting pregnant to further consolidate long term provisioning.
Our Beta simply lacks the same sexual experience as his wife-to-be to know any better (unless of course he finds proof of that experience later), but he gradually suspects her progressive lack of passion, reservations and self-consciousness by comparing it to porn or some of the other women’s he’s had sex with.
Social conventions abound for women to rely on as they become less incentivized to have sex with their Beta after the first child. Body image considerations, ‘mismatched libidos’ and “well, sex is supposed to taper off after marriage, everyone knows that” are just some of the prepackaged tropes ready for use.
The Turning
Once the first (and possibly second) child arrives, a woman’s order of intimate priorities changes, “turns” to that of the child. The sex “reward”, the ‘cookie time for good boy’, for desired behavior or performance ‘turns’ off, or sex is used as an intermittent reward for desired behavior (i.e. Choreplay). Sex becomes a utility; a positive reinforcer for her BetaĀ increasing hisĀ provisioning capacity rather than the true visceral enjoyment she had with her past lovers.
This new functionality sex represents to a wife becomes ‘turning’ on her husband who believed he would always be her most intimate priority. In the instance of a woman marrying her ‘Alpha Provider’ this may in fact be the case, but as with the hierarchies of love that Alpha doesn’t have the same concern with, and didn’t marry his wife under the same pre-expectations a Beta does.
For the man who persists in his Beta mindset (or the guy who regresses into that mindset) this ‘turning’ becomes more and more pronounced. The turning comes out of the bedroom and into other aspects of their relationship ā finances, familial ties, her expectations of his ambitiousness, his asserting himself at work or with their mutual friends ā on more and more fronts he’s compared to other men and the ghosts of the Alphas she knows or has known.
Even though the Beta is aware his children are now his wife’s true priority, his Blue Pill conditioning still predisposes him to sacrifices. Again, he meets with ready-made social conventions that shame his discontent; “Is sexĀ all that’s important to you?” It shouldn’t be, because it’s really “what’s on the inside that counts”, but he can’t shake the feeling he’s slipping out of her respect.
This is when Beta Dad doubles down. His Blue Pill expectations of himself require an all-consuming, self-sacrificing predisposition. The horse will work harder. His wife may have lost respect for him by this point, but his sense of honor and duty press him on. He doesn’t want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. He wants to ‘out-support’ his father’s ghost, or what he believes ‘other guys’ would do when their marriages get tough.
So he waits it out, but she’s ‘turned’ on him by this point. It wasn’t planned, but all of his martyr-like determination only makes her that much more resentful for having settled on this Beta. After a certain stressing point, her disinterest or indignation goes even beyond his capacity to stay committed to a losing investment. These are the guys who tell me, “Damn Rollo, where where you when I was 30? I wish I’d known then what I know now.”
Do all marriages and relationships follow this schedule? No, but it’s important that men know the signs, understand what’s really expected of them and know when they’re being settled on despite all a woman’s self-interested refutations of that. It’s important they realize that performance isn’t limited to how well they meet a woman’s expectations, but that performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.
It’s important that he lives in his own Frame and that any woman, wife or otherwise, participates in his Frame at his pleasure. Beta men rarely have those expectations, beginning from a position of scarcity and a preconditioned responsibility to forgive a woman’s sexual strategy while still being gushingly appreciative that sheĀ chose him to settle on.
@jf
But even just making it more difficult would reduce population, which would seem to violate a more fundamental requirement of life than individualized sexual strategy.
Unless the argument actually is that women’s sexual strategy fares better with a lower population…
@Jeremy
What if the evolution of population reduction mechanisms were simply an inevitable emergent property of complex biological systems?
“She turned on me.”
Wrong. She was never really with you to start.
Most young women don’t understand how little time they have regarding their fertility: “Most women simply donāt realize that at 30, a healthy woman has about a 20 percent chance of conceiving per month and by the time she reaches 40, her odds drop to about 5 percent, Collura said. “Instead, many of those surveyed thought that a 30-year-old woman would have a 70 percent chance of conceiving and that a 40-year-oldās chances could approach 60 percent. “They also believed that a 20-year-old woman might get pregnant in less than two months of unprotected sex, rather than the five months… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong
What if the evolution of population reduction mechanisms were simply an inevitable emergent property of complex biological systems?
The only significant mechanisms that reduce population are disease, predators, accidents, etc. etc. Basically bad stuff in the environment.
Every healthy individual in every population on Earth is pursuing strategies that get his/her DNA into the next generation.
It’s a safe bet that nearly every life form not pursuing these strategies is a victim of some type of physical/mental environmental damage.
re: “womenās sexual strategy fares better with a lower population” Yes. Behold the demographic-economic paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic-economic_paradox universally explained by women as a group choosing to have far fewer children whenever the women are given the choice. When the going gets tough, women start cranking out babies; previous explanations had been that their bodies knew there would need to be more people so that some could reproduce, or something. Conflict is always a locally suboptimal strategy for maximizing population. And conflict must always decrease the rate of adaptation to specific conditions since it wastes time (and resources) doing other things besides… Read more »
Any biologist with a room temperature IQ could have told people that this video was staged. There are no population reduction strategies. No behavior like this could happen in healthy animals unless it in some way aided reproduction. This clearly didn’t.
http://youtu.be/pDqlZjpSJCc?t=37s
@zdr01dz The only significant mechanisms that reduce population are disease, predators, accidents, etc. etc. Basically bad stuff in the environment. This depends entirely on how you define “bad”. When populations reach a saturation point, say the most successful portion of the population cannot achieve more success without reducing the competition for resources, suddenly those bad things from their perspective become “good” by reducing competition. It means their resource consumption is no longer involuntarily constrained by the needs of others. If medical and safety technologies have become good enough that those reductions due to natural causes (disease in particular has caused… Read more »
I’ve already quoted from this paper. Maybe another writeup will help the understanding along. “any potential genetic benefits of sexual selection were reversed in the next generation: high-fitness males produced low-fitness daughters, and high-fitness females produced low-fitness sons. “A male may be high-quality because he has a lot of masculinizing male-benefit genes,” explained Pischedda, the first author of the paper. “When a female mates with such a male, those masculinizing genes pass to the offspring, and if they end up in a daughter, they will reduce her fitness. The same thing happens with maternal fitness.” Another result was that males… Read more »
In fact… only beta males and all women are hurt by BP strategies. Alpha males flourish. If they’re already the height of success for our species, BP strategies only serve to thin out the failures from the herd that nature is no longer removing at a suitable rate. Alphas can still reproduce just fine.
Yes, I just made the argument that feminism and The Blue Pill are a form of emergent eugenics. Looks like the Nazis got it all wrong, but the feminazis got it figured out. Voluntary eugenics. What a grotesque concept.
re: “Alpha males flourish.”
If even the idea of female selection could be correct, i.e. females eagerly selecting to reproduce with the “best” males, then the world would be filled with strutting alphas. Our world doesn’t look like that, therefore the idea of female selection is not merely incomplete but incorrect. The correct idea is that females eagerly deselect the non-best, and no it’s not the same idea.
@jf12
then the world would be filled with strutting alphas.
Not necessarily. The change would take time due to social resistance of the ideas (i.e. Red Pill communities and the like), and of course there’s always variance and random chance.
@ Sun Wukong In factā¦ only beta males and all women are hurt by BP strategies. Alpha males flourish. If theyāre already the height of success for our species, BP strategies only serve to thin out the failures from the herd that nature is no longer removing at a suitable rate. Alphas can still reproduce just fine. If a system punishes beta males and rewards alpha males that indicates that alpha males either wrote the rules or had significant input. Another hypothesis would be that the environment changed so fast that society hasn’t had a chance to weed out failed… Read more »
re: “Not necessarily.” Yes necessarily, if 1) What determined reproduction was female selection of males 2) Alpha genes are fitter and get passed down to succeeding generations of males Neither of these two hypotheses has been shown experimentally, ever. What seems to be true is that alpha cads are deselected as dads, and in addition maybe (following the handwaving logic about generational issues) they have unsexy daughters. Even reproductively successful cads tend to get a girl pregnant with one kid and then run away. One kid. And then that one kid is necessarily less successful because of resources. On the… Read more »
@ jf12 If even the idea of female selection could be correct, i.e. females eagerly selecting to reproduce with the ābestā males, then the world would be filled with strutting alphas. Our world doesnāt look like that, therefore the idea of female selection is not merely incomplete but incorrect. The correct idea is that females eagerly deselect the non-best, and no itās not the same idea. That is correct and it’s how sales work. People whittle out the non-best and then make their choice. For example, a person wants a computer. Once they’ve decided it’s time to buy the rest… Read more »
We all know males vary more than females, and hence are more adaptable. Intralocus sexual conflict appears to be the means by which females incorporate male fitness into female genes. But this sexual conflict (i.e. sexual deselection) necessarily reduces the potential population of the next generation.
Hence, it follows that male virtues are so necessitous to females that females will sacrifice unborn (unconceived …) children to obtain them.
@zdr01dz
Another hypothesis would be that the environment changed so fast that society hasnāt had a chance to weed out failed strategies. In time it will. This hypothesis predicts the rise of alternate strategies like Red Pill and MGTOW. Obviously MGTOW is doomed because it reduces the rate of reproduction.
This sounds more likely. Humans change their own environment extremely rapidly these days. Nature’s traditional mechanisms work on complex life at the timescale of ages or epochs, not millennia or centuries. Humans make dramatic environmental changes in decades; of course nature can’t wouldn’t up.
Maria Menounos’ laugh is an enormous “no.” But I think I could find a way to work past it.
http://youtu.be/wG2YEByGmGI?t=12s
@zdr01dz, re: “People whittle out the non-best and then make their choice.”
Aha! This explains of course why arranged marriages tend to be more fertile than when women have more power. It may also explain why females suffer so greatly from consumer choice paralysis, more than males.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice
When given a choice of 100 practically equal shirts, a man picks one and buys it.
^^^^^^
can’t/wouldn’t keep up, rather.
jf, what that paper is describing here: āany potential genetic benefits of sexual selection were reversed in the next generation: high-fitness males produced low-fitness daughters, and high-fitness females produced low-fitness sons. āA male may be high-quality because he has a lot of masculinizing male-benefit genes,ā explained Pischedda, the first author of the paper. āWhen a female mates with such a male, those masculinizing genes pass to the offspring, and if they end up in a daughter, they will reduce her fitness…” ..is simple harmonic motion within the genetic population. That is interesting on it’s own, but it says nothing about… Read more »
Therefore “I don’t have any thing worth wearing in my three full closets.” may be a direct result of needing to think “Where are all the good men?”
Human history
250,000 years as hunter gatherers (nearly all evolution took place here)
10,000 years as farmers (some evolution took place)
200 years since industrial evolution (virtually no evolution here)
2.5 years of Tinder
Yep, society is probably changing so fast that our DNA can’t keep up.
@ jf12
When given a choice of 100 practically equal shirts, a man picks one and buys it.
Haha! So true for me. I make most simple decisions in seconds. Girls… not so much.
any potential genetic benefits of sexual selection were reversed in the next generation
Without getting too complicated some traits only travel on either an X or Y chromosome. And some traits require 2 copies of a gene. And so a trait that requires XX might only show up in females.
@Jeremy,
it’s alternating but not pendulumish. Better analogies are the familiar population dynamics models building up from predator-prey and logistic models.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_dynamics
As toy models there isn’t any progression, but there can be fun (chaos, etc.)
^^^^^
What I’m saying is XX = wide hips. XY = normal hips. Or something along those lines. So a woman with wide hips might still have sons with narrow hips.
Among the group of not highly-rejected shirts, the one that leaps off the rack and drapes itself on you is the one you leave with.
So among male shirts there is no major evolutionary pressure. It stays caveman level. “Me want shirt. Me get shirt. This shirt good enough.”
Which strategy “wins” for males is a very open question.
https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/tag/cads-vs-dads/
Maybe hypergamy is the attempt to provoke “let’s you and him fight” between cads and dads.
@ Glenn – I don’t care what you think about my looks, I know I’m not super hot – but I have an awesome, amazing husband and two beautiful boys… & we want more. My oldest is already awesome at sports & a leader with other boys, he’s good at playful teasing even using it on me (he has a great model, my husband) – he even does insanity workouts with his dad (he’s only 4). Dressing slutty and dressing up are completely different things. I don’t dress slutty, but I do dress nice. And as for how I feel… Read more »
@GWTDT, have you read this post?:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/02/17/the-gift/
Yes… saw it last v-day… I dress hot at home & even do my hair/make-up… sounds vain.
@ girlwithadragonflytattoo
Keep your bodyfat around 20% and he won’t care what you wear. š
Omron HBF-514C Full Body Composition Sensing Monitor and Scale
For men somewhere around 10%.
Keep your bodyfat around 20% and he wonāt care what you wear.
That’s not true. I prefer my women wearing nothing but a smile or a “fuck me” face.
^^^^^
A thunderbolt of truth from Sun hehe
This might sound a little OCD but we have that scale. My wife weighs herself every morning and I record it in a spreadsheet with a graph. hehehe, I’m not kidding.
Yep, I do it too.
@zdro1dz – yep, definitely! I’m normally 115, 5’8 and with muscle tone… I’ve lost all the baby weight in the first two weeks postpartum, but just started working out again yesterday to Tracy Anderson (serious little energizer bunny nazi woman) to get my muscle tone back š We weigh ourselves everyday too – how else do you know if you’re on track?
And dressing hot at home for me is usually sexy workout clothing, or normal clothes (jeans) & fitted shirt – definitely not a dress or heels at home…. but NOT frumpy.
@ girlwithadragonflytattoo Iām normally 115, 5ā8 and with muscle tone Your numbers are impressive! That alone puts you in front of 99% of the female population. You can’t get that thin eating junk. You’re eating healthy. Interestingly enough my wife also weighs 115 pounds, but she is short. I think she is just over 5’4″. I come in at a towering 5’7″ and 145 pounds, hehe. My 13 year old son looks me right in the eye. He wears a size 9 shoe, the same as me. Next year he’ll be looking down at me from above. Hey I’m curious.… Read more »
@ agent p – I view quantitative easing as the equivalent of eating one’s own feces, particularly in the case of the U.S.’s ‘full faith and credit’, lol. But of course you are spot on with respect to this being a way to rig the game to create politically desirable outcomes, no doubt. Another analogy might be the way the IQ test was intentionally manipulated to make men and women “more equal”. Even the average for men used to be higher, in addition to the vastly larger quantity of men in the right tail as compared to women. And when… Read more »
He snapped me up quick – I met him at 18… married at 20 š
@GWDFT, Your post on your blog.. it’s like actual girl game on how to not be able to say no and end up with Chad’s cock “accidentally” smashing into you. Nice to see a woman running some girl game that could help a woman keep her husband around. Today I saw this hot woman from behind. Skin tight yoga pants (as this is the current fad) and a body like the one you describe for yourself. She turned around and this “girl” was 60+ years old. I couldn’t help but thinking what a fucking waste of a woman. She could… Read more »
@jf12
That all comes across rather vague. Do you have anything similar to an equation of motion, or plots of traits vs t that might help to visualize the model you accept? And understand I’m asking from a position of curiosity, not challenge. I mean, you’ve discussed a number of as examples of what factors into what is selected for, but I (personally) fail to see what knits them together.
It’s acceptable to think that women do not have “direct” control over gene selection in humanity, but it’s very unsatisfying to leave it at that.
@ GWDT – Again, can we slow this down? I didn’t say anything about your looks other than your are cute and attractive based on photos from your public website and did so only to make the point of how you excite attraction in men based on your looks. I will give this one more try as you do seem to really be trying to be open minded, and your comments and blog speak to that. But in this conversation you are being quite obtuse and are just banging around from pillar to post. One is tempted to write it… Read more »
@ girlwithadragonflytattoo He snapped me up quick ā I met him at 18ā¦ married at 20 Yep, as I suspected. It’s starting to make sense now. If a woman is… A) Pretty B) Friendly and warm personality C) Easy going D) Great in the sack E) A generally appealing person Somebody is going to lock down that woman fast. She won’t be single at age 25. She might not be single at age 22. Quality sells fast. period. I think I’m starting to understand the manosphere a bit more. It’s a collection of guys who are dating women older than… Read more »
@ eon – On “backbone”. True that. But I’ll be honest – sometimes I just get tired. I’ve been tough motherfucker and resilient as shit for most of my life but I’m not a machine. Sometimes it’s all just too much.Yet you are right, on another level, my attitude is in my control. I show weakness to my own detriment and I am weak to my own detriment. And I’m being permissive of it on some level, not fun to notice actually. On the other hand, I’ve learned to not fight my emotional storms. They seem to come and go… Read more »
“Skin tight yoga pants (as this is the current fad) and a body like the one you describe for yourself. She turned around and this āgirlā was 60+ years old.”
she did turn on you
She turned me on -> She turned on me
@cupkate loved the story from hot to cold in one year, I want to marry you
@zdr01dz Exactly. This is a point I’ve made to a lot of people that try to shame me for dating younger women: it’s the only place to find the good ones before they’re snapped up. Dating that age doesn’t guarantee you’ll find one, but dating above 25 pretty much guarantees you won’t. If she’s over 25 and not taken, she’s leftovers. At her peak she couldn’t or wouldn’t lock a man down. That means she’s either: A) Buying in to the FI lie completely. or B) Been rejected by other dudes for a reason. There are basically no other options.… Read more »
Exhibit A) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFTJW4Merbs This chick has a ridiculous body. So you have to ask yourself if she’s not a headcase is some guy going to try and lock her down? You bet. And they did. I think i read she’s married to a Narc agent and she lives in Arkansas. Sounds like a pretty normal life. From an LTR point of view the desirable women are all taken. That’s one of the main lessons I’ve learned from the man-o-sphere. Addendum – She and her husband know that guys are beating off to her hula hoop videos. Hmmm… these people aren’t… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong
Shiiiiiiiiit…….. it’s sinking in now. You’re probably a lot younger than me which makes it easier. I’m 45. If my wife got hit by a bus and I was suddenly single the only chicks I’d consider for an LTR are 25 or less. But the only young girls that want an LTR with a 45 year old guy are nut cases with daddy issues. Crazy, loser bitches.
So that’s it. Without my wife I’m done. Dating is for young people.
Thank you Glenn.
@zdroidz
Uh, I must be spoiled then. I wouldn’t call her body ridiculous. She’s certainly fit and there’s nothing ugly about her, she moves extremely well, and I wouldn’t pass over her if she gave me IOIs… but she’s not “ridiculous”. I’ve seen ridiculous bodies… I usually find them on amateur/semi-pro dancers.
@Glenn Sun, I might suggest that you try to cultivate interest in other people. Some are dull as dirt, but some also surprise me with wild interests and experiences. Don’t get me wrong. I get along easily with most dudes regardless of intelligence. I’ve always been great at making friends. It’s just dating where the intelligence has repeatedly proven to be a handicap. When I went camping out west on the motorcycle a couple years back, I was sitting in a random bar outside San Fran. A couple slid over to me, seeing me with full riding gear sitting next… Read more »
here’s a woman under 25, successful, outgoing, popular
hey, that post a url to a image really works, for better or worse, thanks Miley!
It’s not a handicap Sun, stop thinking that shit. Even people who are not bright have significant amounts of data that they project about themselves, their relationships, and their thoughts without ever speaking. Find a way to turn that intellect into something that tries to soak up everything your senses tell you when you’re interacting with women. In fact, just stop using your intellect with their words/subjects entirely for a time, pay their words a complete lip-service and concentrate on everything else about the encounters you have. The women *do not care* about anything other than the attention you’re giving… Read more »
@zdr01dz Youāre probably a lot younger than me which makes it easier. Iām 45. Not that much younger. Turning 38 Saturday. My last ex was 18 (almost 19) when we met. I was 34. She dumped me for another dude a little over a year later and (I have confirmed this) hopped on the cock carousel right on schedule directly after that. Her stereotypical words: “I’m exploring my sexuality” No, bitch. You’re becoming just like every broken down post-Wall spinster in modern society. Oh well, at least I got to tag some hot 19 year old ass in the process… Read more »
@Jeremy Perhaps. I have noticed the times my Game has been on, it’s been due to actual interest in a woman. I do tend to pick up all the little details, I tend to rapidly pull together pieces to build their narrative and can often start predicting where they’re going with things rapidly. I suppose I’m rarely on that kind of game though since I’m rarely in the presence of a woman I find physically attractive enough that I at least want to fuck. If I don’t find them physically attractive and the conversation is boring, I’ve got to be… Read more »
@Sun, Go plate them young girls. They will go for you with the right game. The market does shift almost imperceptibly when you live somewhere where the other women are thin and want the fantasy you can spin for them. Sure they don’t know who you are. They still want you. I’ve got a woman over a decade younger then me in my bed right now asleep. I do wish I could have lived my blue pill dreams to this day. Be asleep in my own bed with my own wife and my own child. But that was taken from… Read more »
@Glenn… I really don’t understand why you are so hung up on this topic… I hope I can explain it effectively, but you still may misunderstand (maybe because your wife dressed up/hot all the time and always had men after her? Maybe you’re projecting that onto all situations?) Anyway: You said:: “1. In what way are you dressing nicely when you go out of the house without your husband? Letās just say we call it āprettyā. Are you not aware what we think of as pretty is what men find attractive? If not, now you do know.” Dressing up, yes… Read more »
@GWDFT, You were raised by a single mother weren’t you? You are so deeply stuck in your gynocentric programming. Yet you are one of the rare women to read the manosphere. Still stuck so deeply in your programming. You barely understand men. Keep trying to train women in real girl game. At least you have some use there. You barely have any understanding of men though. I have no idea how to break a woman’s solipsism. It infects everything. Makes it impossible to speak to a woman as you would a man. At least I can see how you *think*… Read more »
@SoC – No, not painful at all! I know Rollo’s smv chart and that my husband’s smv is independent – my mom actually explained that chart perfectly. lol and my parents are still married, I definitely was influenced by my dad.
@SoC – Since i’m up with my newborn… what do you think I should understand about men… this is an opportunity for you to tell me I guess.
@StringsofCoins, re: “They start losing respect cuckolding you in secret as well. Because you failed to control them. As that is your job as a man. And she wants you to do this.”
Yes. A lot of what you write, I could have written. I think 99 and 44/100 percent of women’s cheating starts out as yet another “innocent” but secret shit test, one in which acing it depends upon you figuring out there is testing.
@redlight, re: Miley. And she thinks she has a high IQ. And she thinks she’s a 9. “All the guys were looking at ME! And all the girls know it! I’m the queen!” If I can try to pretend I haven’t seen interview clips and haven’t already been turned off by her skankness, drug use, and general lack of Authenticity (yes, I just whipped her with the “A” stick) then in her age group just based on looks alone she’s about a 4. And that’s without restricting it e.g. to non-obese UMC white etc. To all women readers: no, this… Read more »
re: “Iām rarely in the presence of a woman I find physically attractive enough”
Compared to Sun Wukong, I must really be unspoiled. My attraction floor is about 3 I think. I agree with Jeremy though, about hoop girl: “ridiculous” is not the same as “unusually fit compared to all the usual slugs”. I don’t even think she moves very well, and like I said I’m not picky. Maybe a 6? (again, in her age group but not otherwise graded on a curve).
@gwadft, re: “Iām not a normal good Christian girl or I wouldnāt be reading Rolloās writings”
Me neither. It was a guilty lurking pleasure for me, until last year when I started commenting. Now it’s more guilty and more pleasure …
@gwadt, re: “what do you think I should understand about men” I’ll answer. Men’s SMV is absolutely NOT determined by the “high quality” woman he snag. His SMV is absolutely unaffected by which princess deigns to let him kiss her bottom. Men’s SMV is all about the numbers of women who do things for him trying to snag *him*. How many women, what percentage of women, gaze at him with willing eyes? How many women, what percentage of women, bring him food offerings? How many women, what percentage of women, try to give him a peek? How many women, what… Read more »
@ GWADT – You are a fucking phony. “It does not matter at all that I might attract other men ā thereās nothing I can do about that.” No, what’s really true is that you don’t care because whatever happens, it’s all to your advantage and aggrandizes your ego and identity and social status and even gives you leverage with your husband. You even run around in yoga pants in public – fyi, they are skin tight, long, sheer and sometimes somewhat see-through underwear. My Mom – a real Christian, not a phony whorish one like you – would have… Read more »
Back on topic, plus “what do you think I should understand about men”.
When, not if, a woman does want to turn on her ltr man, especially post-honeymoon, she should understand that her feelings are entirely internal to her and it is her choice to continue to treat him as if she happened to still love him.
@ All – GWADT is actually pre-cheating here. She even admits the fact she’s here at all is evidence of her lack of Christian values. āIām not a normal good Christian girl or I wouldnāt be reading Rolloās writingsā We are witnessing her hypergamous nature in action. Going along with JF12’s commentary on sexual conflict theory, her preening about in the real world in yoga pants etc. is designed to attract attention she can reject, as that’s what aggrandizes her sense of her own value but also it feels good to her on some basic level. She comes here for… Read more »
Glenn. You. Are. A. Douche. Canoe.
WTF is wrong with you?
Crap. Didn’t intend to hit that send button. Feel free to delete Rollo.
@Glenn, re: “designed to attract attention she can reject”
Yes. Women’s self-perceived SMV is based on the quality of man she rejects.
@Liz,
Hah! Freudian click, eh?
@ Jeremy
Uh, I must be spoiled then. I wouldnāt call her body ridiculous. Sheās certainly fit and thereās nothing ugly about her, she moves extremely well, and I wouldnāt pass over her if she gave me IOIsā¦ but sheās not āridiculousā. Iāve seen ridiculous bodiesā¦ I usually find them on amateur/semi-pro dancers.
Holy crap you are spoiled! haha! The only thing I’d change is make her hips wider. That’s it. I rate her body a solid HB9.
@ KrpytoKate – You may be the only honest woman who’s ever commented here. Can you believe what an irresponsible child little Miss Christian-DragonTatoo-Whore is? While I realize you did destroy a marriage, at least you woke up to your true nature. I wonder, what do you think optimal reproductive arrangements are for men and women going forward? Me? I’m not quite sure but it’s also true that my real issue isn’t that my wife stopped wanting to fuck me, it’s that she stole my family and wrecked me emotionally by doing so. I can get over any woman but… Read more »
@ jf12
Maybe a 6?
You rate the hula hoop girl’s body a 6? Just a 6!?!
Maybe I need glasses. She looked good to me. I place her body solidly in the “hot” category.
WTF is it with this hula hoop dancing? Reminds me of that commenter Ashley. Is this like talentless attention whores’ favorite pastime now?
Girl is a 7 at best on the very stringent Tomassi scale. She’d get passed up to be a ‘pour girl’ by my promo team.
@Zdro1dz – I’m with you, I give the hula girl an 8, no problem. She has a very nice body, cute face and moves well. She’s not quite model quality beautiful but she’s absolutely scrumptious.
^^^^^
Give the hula hoop girl wider hips and to me that’s a 10.
@ Glenn
Iām with you, I give the hula girl an 8, no problem. She has a very nice body, cute face and moves well. Sheās not quite model quality beautiful but sheās absolutely scrumptious.
Glad to see I’m not totally alone on this one, hehe. Scrumptious is the exact, right word.
@ Liz – You. Are. A. Fucking. Cunt. Move along now.
@ redlight
hereās a woman under 25, successful, outgoing, popular
You know where crazy 25 year old women come from? They come from crazy 18 year old girls.
re: “what do you think I should understand about men” Liz may like this comment. Men don’t get jealous like women think. The only thing that arouses jealousy is my woman expressing (any) interest in another man. I’m not the least bit jealous about a guy being interested in my woman. I’m not the least bit jealous about woman who’s not mine expressing interest in another man, although I definitely will think her to be “easier” in general because of that overt interest. However, and this is a key point in my awakening, I now view a woman expressing TO… Read more »
Also, I met my ex when she was 23. Didn’t stop her from going full bore cunt on me.
@zdr01dz, re: “You rate the hula hoop girlās body a 6?”
No, the total looks package. “Unusually fit” already makes her a 7 just body-wise, and she has long limbs so that adds another point. But 5 face, honestly, or less.
@ Glenn
Also, I met my ex when she was 23. Didnāt stop her from going full bore cunt on me.
Looking back, any early warning signs?
@ jf12 No, the total looks package. āUnusually fitā already makes her a 7 just body-wise, and she has long limbs so that adds another point. But 5 face, honestly, or less. Wow! Our compasses shoot in totally opposite directions. Take away the make-up (I hate that stuff) and give her wider, girly hips (I love that stuff) and that chick looks perfect to me. I love the girl next door look. Her $9 Old Navy, green shorts are charming. I want to marry her and have her babies. Make me 20 years old and her 20 years old and… Read more »
600+ comments and counting…comments have made my day.
It’s always interesting to see women who purport to be RP or embody RP thought, suffice to say that no woman will ever understand the male experience. if anything all they say go ratifies RM and what we have been learning in the manosphere.
“Letās say for a moment that you did want a family”
hold the fuck up here, I asked her to marry me first
@jf12 – thank you for answering from your point of view. @Glenn you’re insane… my yoga pants are not skin tight to the point where you can see through them – good grief… and I don’t wear them like a uniform outside the house, usually I wear jeans. I already told you I don’t dress slutty. And your prediction for our marriage is soooo off and just incredibly rude. Sad I really thought you were a kind person, and I believed you hands down on your story. But your take on an open marriage sounds like a recipe for disaster,… Read more »
Give this chick larger breasts and take away her crack pipe and porn career and to me this girl next door is a 10. To me at least, perfection.
nypost article: “In fact, 66 percent would rather read a book, watch a movie or take a nap than sleep with a spouse.”
Folly…
Cue, righteous agents of Karma, half+7, and inexorable influx of awakening beasts into the manosphere.
Also, I’m about your daughter’s age, and I have a wonderful relationship with my dad – I’ve always been close with him…. he’s responsible for creating that. I’m convinced your talked to her horribly or something (like you’ve done here), you did something to ruin that relationship. And then you see me, my husband, my kids and you project your own sorry life story onto us. Sorry, we’re opposites of the hell that your marriage was… All those benefits I listed were from our marriage. Face it, you’re just very deeply envious of our life & relationship as you’ve said… Read more »
@Sun Wukong If I donāt find them physically attractive and the conversation is boring, Iāve got to be desperate to stay there. I think you’ve now hit the actual problem with intellect when it comes to meeting women, pre-disqualifying. Men with intellect tend to leap many steps ahead of everyone else in a sequence of events or a conversation. This is one of the reasons that small-talk conversations are often intolerable for people with intellect. It is like watching a movie you’ve already seen while socially being expected to be interested. This sort of problem manifests in a number of… Read more »
@ Zdro1dz – Well, I was such a blue piller so in many ways i did everything wrong – that’s a starting point. Thankfully, Sun Wukong helped me see that I was programmed to be this way, and to even ignore and suppress and shame my natural instincts and impulses and that I have to let myself off the hook. The one thing I should have done is realize how much effect a woman’s mother has on how the daughter sees men. In her case, her Mom was a world class man eating, floozy, drunken, nasty slut who left my… Read more »
There’s no reason to argue with girlwithadragonflytattoo because her reasons for posting here are obvious.
Now, if I were to post in a female yoga-instructor forum with a handle something like “manwithan80footyachtand5beachfronthomes”, while speaking about all the places I visited and high value people I regularly speak to… the reasons would also be obvious.
@ Glenn When you marry a dime, sheās going to turn on you unless you are George Clooney ā and even then it may happen. Listen to Kate ā itās the combo of their opportunities AND womenās opportunistic sexuality being unleashed in a relatively consequence free environment socially that is basically insurmountable. I hear you, and it definitely happens but I’m not sure if that’s the norm. Rollo is a brilliant thinker and writer but that’s one area where I don’t necessarily agree. Monica Lewinksy is an HB3 (being generous) and she managed to bang The President Of The United… Read more »
@zdr01dz, re: “Our compasses shoot in totally opposite directions.” Unlikely, as well as untrue. Almost all men’s relative ranks of images of women are within a point of each other. The disagreement is in the distribution. I’m taking a fat-tailed distribution, much more uniform than Gaussian, with about 50% of women in the 4,5,6,7 categories, about 25% in the 8,9,10 (10 is merely excellent not unattainable), and about 25% 1,2,3. I don’t take my thresholding scheme and think “Every girl below a 3 is a zero and every girl above 7 is a 10.”) Although I’m gonna skip perusing Ms.… Read more »
@zdr01dz
That’s only because former President Bill Clinton is the very definition of a Dog. The man will try anything (especially when it comes to sex), as long as it’s available.
In Clinton’s defense, look who he married. I’m not saying Monica was anywhere near an HB, but dirty water in the desert is still water.
@zdr01dz, re: “Monica Lewinksy is an HB3”
Well, maybe 4. Below average but above threshold, which kind of narrows it down. But I agree with your larger point about her that women’s purely physical attractiveness is not the main driver of who she gets to bang. But then that means that “unchecked hypergamy” is not identical with women handing out sex to top alphas (which may be just the smaller component of it).
@ GWADT – Deeply envious of you? Giggling. I wouldn’t take your husband’s place for a million dollars. You just can’t deal with reality and your own inconsistencies. As for my daughter, consider that when I was 28, I had a stay at home wife PRETTIER than you by a mile, was just busting through 100k a year in earnings, was being offered a major job in France as an executive, and a daughter who loved me like crazy. You husband would cut his right leg off to have been me back then. And oh yeah, women like you threw… Read more »