In the last comment thread Rational Male regular, Glenn, had an interesting exchange that went like this:
My marriage exactly. And she really did turn on me by the time my daughter was 2, also having two miscarriages. It was as though a switch went off and she simply fucking hated me. In my case, I had too much dignity and many women who were interested in me who seemed quite fine, so I put my foot down and my ex then just began an affair with a Plan B she had in the wings (hotties always have a Plan B guys, especially wives). She married him and destroyed him too, but it wrecked my relationship with my daughter along the way. So much destruction and pain.
I often look back on my marriage now from the RP perspective and have started to blame myself for not being more dominant and not seeing shit tests for what they were etc, but I also wonder if there was anything I could have done? She was hot, there were always good looking guys willing to fuck her ā I mean, is it just inevitable for some women?
As I’m finishing up the final edits of the next book, I’m once again reminded of its main purpose ā a cautionary explanation of what men can expect of contemporary women at the various phases of their maturity. In Anger Management I detailed the anger men direct at themselves, not at the women who followed a natural predictable ‘flow’ of rationalizations and social conventions they can be expected to as their conditions in life dictate. Naturally any anger a man may deal with or express in this regard is always presumed to be directed towards women. A feminine dominant social order is one founded on the innate solipsism of women.
Now, before I dig in a bit deeper here, I want to make clear that while Glenn’s comment started my thinking process about this week’s topic, what I’m going to get at here isn’t a reflection on anything personal. His story of being “turned on” by a wife he believed was playing on his team is a very common one related by many a post-divorced man using the hindsight of a Red Pill lens.
I’m adding this caveat since only Glenn can really say for himself whether his mindset at the time he first met, and later married, the wife who turned on him was colored by Blue Pill idealism and / or a Beta self-perception. My guess, as with most men in his situation, was that he actually had what was a realistic expectation of a reciprocal relationship based on what he thought would be her genuine appreciation of his efforts and merits.
Betas at the Epiphany
I’ve discussed in several prior threads the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks strategy women use in both the short and long term. What I think needs a bit more explanation is the long term effects of that strategy on the Beta man’s mindset as a result of his fem-centric conditioning.
When a woman approaches and enters into her Epiphany Phase, she has a limbic understanding that her genetic chips need to be cashed in with a man who has ‘proper’ long term provisioning potential. For the greater part, those men are at least expected by women to have a Blue Pill, Beta conditioning that will make them more compliant with, now, what’s becoming an unignorable open Hypergamy.
These are the men Sheryl Sandberg describes as,
“ā¦someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.”
These are nice euphemisms used to describe a man willing to accept his position of powerlessness in the grand scheme of feminine-primacy and open Hypergamy for his participation in realizing women’s dominant sexual strategy.
The Beta man encountering this new found attraction convinces himself that women’s interest in him is genuine and organic. In a sense it is, but although this attraction (not to be confused with arousal) is perceived as genuine on the part of women, it’s an attraction born of necessity. That necessity is the need to consolidate on monogamy with a man who’ll willingly ignore not just her past Alpha Fucks indiscretions, but participate in what he’s been conditioned to believe is his duty as a man from society and start to build a “mature adult” life with her.
A Beta at the Epiphany phase believes his ship has finally come in and his self-righteous AFC strategy of patience and perseverance will be rewarded. The social conventions at the time make him believe he’s to be more lauded for ‘forgiving’ a woman’s past, irrespective of whether he can expect praise for looking past her misgivings.
The Alpha Widow orĀ carousel riding wife-to-be may then convince herself that she in fact actually sees an Alpha potential, or a potential for long term success, in ‘settling’ on that Beta in the long term. While I have had men relate horror stories about women knowing that they were settling and being insecure about their futures before or at the time of their wedding, I’m going to suggest that this foreknowledge is rarelyĀ a conscious aspect of women’s insight. “Turning” on their husband-to-be later in is life rarelyĀ a preconceived plan, but it is a predictable outcome for men who persist in a Beta mindset throughout their marriages.
Getting Her Settled Best
Saving the Best continues to be a seminal post on Rational Male, not the least of which because so many men could relate to the experience. However, this may not have been the experience of discovering a sexual past his wife had no intention of ever allowing him to share with her , but rather the expectation men have of receiving a woman’s ‘sexual best’ in marriage. That may not amount to the sexual experimentation she had in her Party Years, but forĀ a Beta who believes his patience and virtue are to be rewarded at long last it is an expectation of enjoying the same or better sexual urgency his wife-to-be shared with her past lovers.
That Beta believes it’s his turn, because why else would a woman commit to a lifetime investment in a man she didn’t think was her best option?
Remember, during the Epiphany Phase a woman’s rationale for choosing the Beta for a long term investment is because she’s “experienced it all” and finally “knows better than to keep dating the Bad Boys who don’t appreciate her.” Thus the Beta believes heĀ must be the best option for her by virtue of her investment in that belief.
And if she’s finally come to realize he’s the best option, why would sheĀ notĀ expect to enjoy her best sexual performance with him? After all, even Sheryl Sandberg said, “ā¦in time, nothing’s sexier.”
For the Alpha Widow marrying the Beta-in-waiting, the comparison of his sexual appeal with prior lovers conflicts with her need to finalize the long term security she couldn’t with her previous Alphas (or the men she perceived as Alpha). Thus comes reserved, self-restrained and self-conscious sex with her new Beta provider.Ā She knows that sex with her Beta lacks the intensity of her prior lovers, but falls back on her Epiphany Phase rationalizations that she’s “doing it for the right reasons this time”.
That right reason being of course getting pregnant to further consolidate long term provisioning.
Our Beta simply lacks the same sexual experience as his wife-to-be to know any better (unless of course he finds proof of that experience later), but he gradually suspects her progressive lack of passion, reservations and self-consciousness by comparing it to porn or some of the other women’s he’s had sex with.
Social conventions abound for women to rely on as they become less incentivized to have sex with their Beta after the first child. Body image considerations, ‘mismatched libidos’ and “well, sex is supposed to taper off after marriage, everyone knows that” are just some of the prepackaged tropes ready for use.
The Turning
Once the first (and possibly second) child arrives, a woman’s order of intimate priorities changes, “turns” to that of the child. The sex “reward”, the ‘cookie time for good boy’, for desired behavior or performance ‘turns’ off, or sex is used as an intermittent reward for desired behavior (i.e. Choreplay). Sex becomes a utility; a positive reinforcer for her BetaĀ increasing hisĀ provisioning capacity rather than the true visceral enjoyment she had with her past lovers.
This new functionality sex represents to a wife becomes ‘turning’ on her husband who believed he would always be her most intimate priority. In the instance of a woman marrying her ‘Alpha Provider’ this may in fact be the case, but as with the hierarchies of love that Alpha doesn’t have the same concern with, and didn’t marry his wife under the same pre-expectations a Beta does.
For the man who persists in his Beta mindset (or the guy who regresses into that mindset) this ‘turning’ becomes more and more pronounced. The turning comes out of the bedroom and into other aspects of their relationship ā finances, familial ties, her expectations of his ambitiousness, his asserting himself at work or with their mutual friends ā on more and more fronts he’s compared to other men and the ghosts of the Alphas she knows or has known.
Even though the Beta is aware his children are now his wife’s true priority, his Blue Pill conditioning still predisposes him to sacrifices. Again, he meets with ready-made social conventions that shame his discontent; “Is sexĀ all that’s important to you?” It shouldn’t be, because it’s really “what’s on the inside that counts”, but he can’t shake the feeling he’s slipping out of her respect.
This is when Beta Dad doubles down. His Blue Pill expectations of himself require an all-consuming, self-sacrificing predisposition. The horse will work harder. His wife may have lost respect for him by this point, but his sense of honor and duty press him on. He doesn’t want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. He wants to ‘out-support’ his father’s ghost, or what he believes ‘other guys’ would do when their marriages get tough.
So he waits it out, but she’s ‘turned’ on him by this point. It wasn’t planned, but all of his martyr-like determination only makes her that much more resentful for having settled on this Beta. After a certain stressing point, her disinterest or indignation goes even beyond his capacity to stay committed to a losing investment. These are the guys who tell me, “Damn Rollo, where where you when I was 30? I wish I’d known then what I know now.”
Do all marriages and relationships follow this schedule? No, but it’s important that men know the signs, understand what’s really expected of them and know when they’re being settled on despite all a woman’s self-interested refutations of that. It’s important they realize that performance isn’t limited to how well they meet a woman’s expectations, but that performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.
It’s important that he lives in his own Frame and that any woman, wife or otherwise, participates in his Frame at his pleasure. Beta men rarely have those expectations, beginning from a position of scarcity and a preconditioned responsibility to forgive a woman’s sexual strategy while still being gushingly appreciative that sheĀ chose him to settle on.
Reading the comments on this site has helped crystalize something in my mind This world is split in two and it’s based largely on intelligence. This chart shows the divide. http://www.gnxp.com/blog/uploaded_images/Picture-2-750736.png If a young person has an IQ of 100 (dead average) there is a nearly 100% chance that they’re having sex. But as IQ rises this behavior drops off rapidly. Young men with an IQ of 130 have just a 32% chance to have had sex. For smart young women it’s just 22%. Smart people behave almost like a different species. An average man probably should be scared that… Read more »
re: “I have spent years trying to tell men the facts about women and sex”
These facts being
1) “I think I’m smoking hot and so should you.”
2) “I’m a lot easier than you might think.”
Years and years, eh?
@Kryptokate My comment wasn’t specifically directed as a reply to yours. But now that we’re speaking of open hostility on Rollo’s comment section… You should keep in mind, if it is at all possible for you to comprehend, just how badly most modern men have been lied to about female nature, and how destructive that was to their lives. If the perceived slights from the guys comments here are too much, or you’re taking them personally, just remember that you’re a woman and women take every comment directed at their sexual strategies personally. Also, regardless of how much you claim… Read more »
@Glenn, re: “She is going to get hit on by dozens and dozens of guys that week. Is it really the same for a 6 as it is a 9?” I think it’s actually worse. You may have thought I was exaggerating about me having many women friends, but I have also been a designated counselor and de factor confessor since my early early 20s. Women get hit on like you wouldn’t believe, and like the women are now explicitly saying it’s the intensity of the hitting-on that counts most. A lot of 6s get hit on earlier and oftener… Read more »
@Zdroidz
That chart…
1) The male line is higher than the female line, indicating that social response is factoring into how the data was taken.
2) The males of just-sub-average intelligence have a greater-than-1 probability?? What the hell?
3) I should think that the female line for lower than 100 should absolutely be higher than the male line, unless I misunderstand the data. Women won’t generally accept a dumb-as-rocks man as a lay, but men do not factor female intelligence in nearly as much.
“I’m getting hit on a lot. So I must be a 6, not a 9” said no woman ever.
There is a prior-century meme of the beautiful girl sitting sadly by the silent telephone on Friday night because all the boys thought she was already taken. “I’m just too pretty”, she prettily pouts into her pretty hankie. “The boys are tongue-tied. What, oh what, can I do to make myself more popular with boys, so that the boys will know I’m easier than I look. Think, girl, think.”
@Jeremy, smarter women turn down more men. Those men, typically, being the men in their environment i.e. smarter men.
Sexual conflict is not about females selecting males. It’s about females turning down males.
Slutty girls can be a barrel of laughs if you make your lack of intentions perfectly clear. I guess I should have given some a whirl when younger. I avoided them exactly like they had the plague, which they all do.
The many “quality” women I’ve closely associated with over the years have given me nowhere near the preselection SMV boost that a couple of raucous sluts have the past little while.
@Jeremy I think Iām just proving your point? Pretty much. While moving will help my odds some, the obesity epidemic just means the US is a shit hole when you’re looking for women. Anywhere the women are largely thin and attractive, the men all move in turning the place in to a sausagefest in short order. (Hence the “Menver” comment) I’m just currently in the worst part of the worst country in the world for obesity. For the record I’ve spent a grand total of a year of my life 20 lbs overweight when I was in my early 20s.… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong I’m not as smart you, but smart enough I have similar issues with “small talk” and “chit chat.” I find the solution is silence. This has a twofold effect: 1. I appear smarter, 2. I appear tolerant and considerate of my lessers. This provides me the position of being the wise man who listens objectively without judgement or disdain. When I do speak peope listen. And when I do speak I make sure to speak as is if I assume everyone is as smart as I am. Never talk down to anyone, never condescend, never patronize. In… Read more »
Notice that the women here totally ignore the need for women to manage their own hypergamy.
I have never slept with a woman I hadnāt tried to marry.
I have. My first. She was a 9. Also engaged, lol. It was a mutual P&D. Also known as a fling.
Lots of apex alphas sleep with women they don’t try to marry. Think Bill Clinton.
@bp I suppose the problem I see is how you get somebody talking so you can be silent without saying something yourself, you know? Speaking straight up tactics here, I’d assume you start with an open-ended question, let them run, then play a line off what they say by listening for what gets them emotional. That’s a hard game to play though. Particularly when your brain is always going a million miles a second, so it’s hard to concentrate on whatever mundane things they’re on about. If I try to speak as though people are as smart as I am,… Read more »
I’m not offended by the hostility, merely pointing out that it’s inconsistent with the expressed desires of those on this blog (i.e. to get at the actual dynamics of sexual interaction, not the comforting or useful social memes). And I understand perfectly well that one should not trust a woman *who has a direct interest* to give a man accurate information when it’s to her advantage to conceal the facts. However, this is purely an academic exercise for me, you don’t know who I am, and it doesn’t impact me whatsoever, which is exactly why I am telling the truth… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong
“high IQ is just a shitty handicap in so many places I often wish Iād been born a fucking idiot.”
^^^
I hear you on that one.
I actually just said the other day that I thought being intelligent in modern society was actually a disability. Jokingly. As in jokingly, not so jokingly.
A guy I worked with said to me, “You are a very intelligent guy. ….I am very sorry for you.”
I would go on a rant about intelligence but I’ll leave it at that for now.
Disliking small talk is not a handicap. The only trick that worked for me was to treat all social interaction as an intellectual challenge. I’ve never been very good about turning my brain off. Even alcohol doesn’t do it, I’ve literally helped people run experiments while blowing a 0.06. So instead of simply deciding that all conversations around me were boring because the subjects they speak about were boring, I attempted to focus on everything about the conversation I might have been missing. I considered what they weren’t discussing, what they failed to mention, who they’re paying attention to, who… Read more »
@ Glenn… “ā Just read what GWDT writes. First off, she gives no defense of prancing around looking āhotā other than it makes her feel good. Tell us, GWDT, why do you think this makes you feel good? Could it be that you enjoy lording your sexual attractiveness around because of the attention you get and the status you receive? It;s painfully clear why you do this. And of course you want to look good when with your husband ā but when heās not around? Admit it, you enjoy being seen as hot, and you really donāt care if it… Read more »
As far as small talk goes don’t talk about yourself or your interests at first. Talk about the woman. Ask her questions about random shit she’s wearing. Ask her random questions about her family. Make the questions more interesting by making assumptions. “Did your brother go to college?”, for example, without knowing if she even has a brother. Eventually you can start talking some about the things that truly interest you but you have to dumb them down to explain them in a way she will understand. The only real point of this is to get her to realize that… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong Having tested in the 150+ range, I can safely say itās not just an avoidance of sex; I want to shag the living hell out of every hot woman I see just like any low IQ alpha caveman. The difference is that my behavior comes across as socially awkward almost regardless of how hard I try to to modify it. You definitely rank higher than me. My IQ is about 135 and my wife is 120. We aren’t MENSA candidates but we’re solidly above average. Our early life sexual behavior was accurately predicted by that chart. Nerds!… Read more »
The funniest thing is when I was young all the adults acted like being smart was such a great thing. Like one day I’d be the fucking king of the world. Instead, conversations veer in to “SHIT! Gig’s up, they just realized I’m smart. Fuck. There goes tonight’s lay.”
@ Jeremy I should think that the female line for lower than 100 should absolutely be higher than the male line, unless I misunderstand the data. Women wonāt generally accept a dumb-as-rocks man as a lay, but men do not factor female intelligence in nearly as much. Females with low intelligence are also less likely to have sex. That is kind of amazing. And you’re right if they are dumber they are surrounded by smarter males that in theory they should be attracted to. But maybe low IQ in females suggests they suffer from a disease process or misdeveloped. Low… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong
My IQ is 135 and I rarely meet people and think, “wow that guy is smarter than me.” As for women I almost NEVER meet a woman that is as smart as I am. But your IQ is in the 150s. You’ve probably never met a woman that could relate to you on your level. Their aren’t many out there.
^^^^^
I’m suddenly self conscious about what a bad writer I am. (facepalm)
Women can’t be expected to keep their hypergamy in check, or even to try to. They’re just not going to do it. They’re also never going to rationalize their behavior as being wrong in any way, like that guy’s wife who messaged me completely out of the blue telling me she wanted to suck my dick. Can you blame the women? Yes. But what are you going to gain from that? The Hamster is too strong. You are wasting your time by blaming women because trying to explain and rationalize anything to them is about as productive as pissing up… Read more »
BTW, I forgot cucking pisses people off. I learned that when The Great Beta Husband was not happy when he found out his wife wanted my junk. That’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about Hamster trolling on the interwebz.
My bad.
@Softek, I think the intention of that man getting angry at you is because he’s aware that he cannot expect his wife to control her own hypergamy. Still getting mad at you is just stupid behavior. I was never mad at any of the men who have fucked my girlfriends or my wife. It never even occurred to me to be mad at the men. Though my ex-wife was expecting me to go out and fight the men she let fuck her. LOL god women are dumb. Fight the men that you let fuck you? Seriously? I really couldn’t see… Read more »
@GWDT – It’s not offensive to me that you dress to look hot, I’m merely examining your motives. As for why you don’t unfriend the “white knight”, as Rollo says, I watch what you do, not what you say. I also wouldn’t be surprised if you had some Beta orbiters elsewhere in our life. You seem to like to dominate men. I just notice things. Like the beauty contest women are running nonstop. Men don’t do this – or haven’t you ever noticed that? Have you ever asked why it makes you feel good to dress attractively? I mean, are… Read more »
@stringofcoins When I was married, I did in fact take steps to make myself less attractive so that I wouldn’t be tempted to cheat. I stopped wearing makeup, I dressed in baggy, androgynous clothes, etc. I’m going to have to disagree with tattoo girl because I think dressing up/looking good is in fact an effort to make sure that you always have admirers everywhere you go and that you maintain your high status — that’s why it makes you “feel good”, because status and admiration are inherently rewarding to people. Girls LOVE to get dressed up as hot as they… Read more »
This study found more or less the same thing. Dumb girls don’t have sex. Smart kids of either sex, same story.
Sexual Experiences of Adolescents with Low Cognitive Abilities in the U.S
http://i.imgur.com/EfWf6SS.jpg
@Softek You’re right, hypergamy (and the urge to harem-build in men), are amoral. But they’re not immoral. They just are. I’m not rationalizing a damn thing. I think all of this sucks and it is not how I would have ordered the universe if I had my way. Hell, if there was a “monogamy pill” I could take that would ensure that I kept the same passionate, loving, horny feeling for one man over the long term, as opposed to the slow degradation from passion to disgust, I’d do it in a hot second. Nevertheless, my opinions and ideals have… Read more »
@Kryptokate
And you doubly canāt blame women when men love the exact same thing.
Hmmm… the exact same thing you say?
Guys get off incredibly on the status high they get from walking around with a super hot woman on their arm.
But that’s not “the exact same thing”. You’re talking about a woman’s personal validation of her own looks from the attention she get with guys hitting on her. The men are talking about pre-selection by other women from having an attractive woman on their arm. Very different concept.
Based primarily on my experience primarily working in construction with uneducated, but very skilled blue collar men. I found there’s a universal application. The following is far from comprehensive but should be a start. Smart guy tactics: First you’re a smart guy own it. Don’t hide it. Don’t apologize for it. This is axiomatic. Everything else rests on you being smart. This is smart guy confidence. Conversation BasicsĀ 1. Never ask questions.Ā Make observational statements and work with the responses. People will talk at length about your observations but evade your questions. Or go with “hey, I thought this was… Read more »
@ Kate It releases an enormous burst of dopamine to walk into a room of hundreds of men and have all eyes on you and to get the most desirable men in the room to choose you to hit on as opposed to every other girl in the room. Lol, Cupkate,at your fantasy. Totally unrealistic. I married a unicorn–an uncirculated dime. She never dressed slutty. Seldom went to clubs–and only in a large group. I was in a club with a 10. Didn’t even notice her come in. I danced with lots of partners. The 10 danced with two other… Read more »
Is it just me or does Kryptokate write like a man?
I don’t smell dead goats so I’m not calling troll.
@ Kryptokate Iām not sure why high IQ should be associated with less sexual partners unless itās just a matter of being pickier. Is that chart applicable only to teenagers (it references chances of having ever had sex over age 15)? I can definitely see having a high IQ meaning that you hold off on having sex for longer before your first time, but I donāt see why it would be a detriment later on. Those studies relate to young people and the results aren’t ambiguous. I’ve delved a little deeper and there doesn’t appear to be a consistent message… Read more »
80% of women are unnattractive:
http://uncabob.blogspot.com/2014/12/80-of-women-are-unattractive.html
@ Cupkate Guys get off incredibly on the status high they get from walking around with a super hot woman on their arm. Lol, no, I get off on all the attention that women give me all the time that I don’t have to work for. Like the pretty receptionist this morning who started flirting with me after we made eye contact. And the other woman who started chatting with me after the receptionist started flirting. Then there was the young woman I was dancing with Sat. night who wailed, “Nooooo! I wanna dance with hiiiim!” while pointing at me… Read more »
@Badpainter: “Oh, sure we can learn game and get laid. So fucking what? We can just as easily rent it. It is the actual true feminine desire beyond plates, and one night stands we can never get because we are truly and forever inadequate. Women want the rock, game allows men to become the steel reinforced concrete facsimile of the rock. Same functionality but like an industrial diamond itās not genuine but manufactured. And all know how women feel about fake diamonds.” @Hedo “That right there, ladies and gentlemen, is poetry only a man who has consumed the entirety of… Read more »
@Kate, You clearly know your stuff. Your earlier suggestion to spin plates is what most of us that are single are doing. I have several plates and they are all thin, young, and willing. It is very frustrating to not be able to create an amazing family though. I know better then to try monogamy with any of these women. Though I do very much desire it. You should be aware that if you enter into a monogamous relationship you are making an agreement with another human being to honor that commitment. At least you are now aware that there… Read more »
I do not see the reward-seeking associated with confirming one’s own sexual value by seeking validation of one’s looks (for a woman) as fundamentally different from the reward-seeking associated with confirming one’s own sexual value by seeking validation for the looks of the woman you’re with (for a man). Sure, it’s different in form, but in both cases one is enjoying a boost in social status and social validation, and sorry, but everyone universally likes that because social status provides such high survival and reproduction benefits. Of course the most beautiful women in the club aren’t dressed the sluttiest but… Read more »
However, as a follow-up, I DO think that a guy behaving with game principles in mind will certainly extend the strength/length of his woman’s attraction for him and make it easier for her to stay with him. Just like a woman keeping her appearance up will make it easier for him to stay with her. Sadly, people are obstinate about both these things. Women are in denial that it’s extremely important to be as attractive as possible because that violates their moral intuitions and it isn’t nice that looks matter so much. And men are in denial that acting like… Read more »
@ Stringofcoins Your comment that if I was a man I might be a rapist is both hilarious and interesting. I think if I was a man I’d be a total ladykiller because I would understand exactly what turns them on and I’d never listen to anything they said. With the rare exception of very cerebral types who are capable of analyzing their own behavior/motivations from a detached perspective (about 1% of people), it never does any good to listen to what people say and that’s especially true of women.
Rollo,
FUCK the FI ~ there’s some Alpha for you. – Nathan
@Kate, You are viewing everything through your perspective as a woman and it shows. I have very little desire to have everyone kissing my ass all the time. You falsely believe that men desire status the way that women do. The only reasons I would want higher status is to make gaming women easier and to see if I could implement changes in society that I feel would be beneficial. Your views on status are coming entirely from a gynocentric perspective. My survival is not increased at all by having an attractive woman hanging off of my arm. The only… Read more »
Also I would like to add that I have met many women like you in the last year online. At various stages. Open hypergamy is being questioned by women as well. Most of these women range from depressed to devastated as they realize that there is no man to, quote, “guide my passions and skills”, as a woman told me three days ago. I have no desire to be that man for her. Perhaps she will find someone one day. Though the man she has been promised is never going to come and she is unwilling to accept the level… Read more »
@ Kate Basically. Have you heard of Faster EFT? Regardless of what’s hard-wired into us, we do have some capacity to change our brains, and I’m an advocate of utilizing that capacity as much as possible for our own benefit, and the benefit of other people. The best thing I’ve found in my life so far is the ability to change the way I feel. I’ve learned and been using this method since May of last year and it has completely changed my life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvkNIFmj7PE I’ve gotten rid of my chronic panic attacks, a lot of my general anxiety, and… Read more »
Sorry but I don’t buy that guys don’t care about status except for purposes of landing chicks. Status is rewarding in and of itself for everyone, and of course it has survival value…the more allies and social resources one has, the more likely they are to survive, especially in a primitive environment where you need friends just to stay alive. Even if men and women were each segregated on their own islands with no chance of ever mixing, they would still be jockeying with each other for status. Some of us care more or less about this than others but… Read more »
@kate
Sorry but I donāt buy that guys donāt care about status except for purposes of landing chicks… Also, Iām sticking with my assertion that lots of guys love to show off a hot woman to other guys to gain their respect and increase their status.
Yes, because clearly the decades of experience many of us have at actually being men and your lack of even a day as one means you know better than us.
@Glenn writes:
“And we both know the guy on Facebook isnāt the only orbiter that youāve got. Nice that you donāt shut him down though, isnāt it? Why didnāt you just unfriend or block him? And why show it to your husband ā what is this, digital cuckoldery?”
Facebook technically could be the world’s largest dating site.
~Julie Spira… quoted by Huffington Post writer Bianco Bosker
“I do not see the reward-seeking associated with confirming oneās own sexual value by seeking validation of oneās looks (for a woman) as fundamentally different from the reward-seeking associated with confirming oneās own sexual value by seeking validation for the looks of the woman youāre with.” Men don’t seek validation through females, men desire females objectively, tits are tits, don’t matter what the guys thinks. You think men watch porn to get validation? Women desire to be desired, the process is completely about validation. Problem with female desire to be desired is that it is not a very high bar… Read more »
@Glenn… I’m seriously starting to think the commenters here are full of hypocrisy… its disgusting. Your thinking I should only look attractive when with my husband is akin to the muslims thinking all women should wear burkas and walk ten steps behind their husbands… and comes from the same place – fear of female sexuality. Not from an alpha place at all, but truly shows how insecure and very low-beta minded you all are who actually think this way. Ya’ll sound so bitter and defensive about why a woman would talk to any man except her husband – as if… Read more »
All About Women: What Big Sister Doesn’t Want You to Know:
http://heretical.com/sgs-1998/aaw.html
@GWADT, If you wanted to find a group that would buy into the idea that you and your husband were the same you’ve come to the wrong place. Try Jezebel. It does appear women are completely unaware of the male experience though. These conversions just reinforce what the older guys have been saying. Perhaps when you are 40+ you will start to come to some realization of it. Though by then your looks will have faded and you will have lost much of your biological advantage but not quite all. And so long as some hawt guy doesn’t cause your… Read more »
@softek You are a disgusting creature… my husband would outshine you in any social setting.. I’m usually compassionate to guys that would try to hit on me without knowing married but with disgusting men like u that jniwingly screw other men’s wivesi have the lowest respect for. Like a used tampon you’re probably full of filth and have stds galore.
@Badpainter, re: “At some point my basic disbelief that this shit works all the time will go away and Iāll become my mothers worst nightmare.”
Yes, it works all the time.
@tasdg, re: “Lots of apex alphas sleep with women they donāt try to marry.”
Kinda by definition. Which lets you know which guys were doing what to whom. “Please let me marry you. Please let me give you bux. Please let me ___ your ___. Pretty please.”
@Sun Wukong, re: “Thatās a hard game to play though.” No, those tactics are easy. The hard part is wanting to play that way (cue Badpainter). It’s obvious you won’t be interested in a girl’s retelling of minute details of her sequences of feelings, but it’s even ok to be *obvious* about it provided you aren’t bored with other aspects of her. Feelz are for girlz, sexy tyme is for boyz. She will enjoy your sexual interest “what a sultry voice” “I like the way your lips move” without you necessarily giving her girl-talk feedback. Sadly I’m good at girl… Read more »
@Krypt, re: “alpha males and most very hot women do not hold any romantic illusions”
Such as imagining alphas keep asking you to marry them? Do tell!
@Kate, re: “BTW, you are totally right”
Yes, I know.
@Kate, re: “Again, it is crazy to me that this is not common knowledge when itās so universal.” Yes, it’s amazing. A huge chunk of the coverup is intentional, we think, the royal we here. Those intentional, cultural, imposed-from-the-top blame-anything-but-women aspects are well covered in other places in the manosphere. But another huge chunk is (almost) inescapably part of the feminine imperative matrix, which as you may know is Rollo’s signature concept. I personally think the paydirt is just below the bedrock here, and although some men may have blunted their diamond bits on it, I believe it is already… Read more »
@StringsofCoins, re: “Most of your talk is going to be about her. Dumbing things down that way does help you understand them better.”
Yes. BTW, did you try the crotch bangle? I think I would if I were young and single, for the following reason: it goes totally against everything I was ever taught and my natural inclinations, and therefore it must be the way to do it.
Seeing all this talk of SMP etc I was struck by the thought that the fat acceptance movement is the SMP equivalent of the monetary policy of Quantitative Easing.
@Glenn or someone else in the financial business, please do step in and correct me if I am off base. I’m just trying to find the right metaphor for the massive skewing of valuations in the market relative to what should be a kind of natural set point for such things. Obviously it has different effects in different markets.
@Kate, re: lording it vs harem-building Ok, I’m officially nearly entertained. If I had my druthers I would prefer MY woman/women to be locked in a castle with eunuch dragon guards. And for them to wear burkhas. If or when I did bring them out to display for e.g. party guests it would be to show how obedient and entertaining they could be. Not to make other men lust for them; polygamy doesn’t want unnecessary fights. In contrast, I can very well imagine that a new woman would be attracted by my leading about, in public, attractive arm candy. As… Read more »
tasdg beat me to it. “Lol, no, I get off on all the attention that women give me all the time that I donāt have to work for.”
@Badpainter, re: “write like a man”
Yes but. She does seem smart and interested in sex.
@ StringofCoins – You asked a very important question and I want to give you a serious answer about how to not become alienated from your child. First off, let me state that if your wife has physical custody, even if you have ‘joint legal custody’, you will never be treated well as a father. And your son will not see you as his Dad in the way he would if you lived with him. This is unavoidable. So, if this is your situation, recognized the inevitability of it. And when your ex marries another man, she will encourage that… Read more »
@ Kate Men absolutely enjoy social validation and the experience of social status just as much as women. Apex alphas *think* that they donāt but thatās only because they have the privilege of not having to be self-awareā¦they donāt think about social status because they already have it, and they simply expect and feel entitled to social validation and supplication everywhere they go. I dated a basketball player for a while, and I assure you that the amount of universal ass-kissing, deferential behavior, and supplication that a physically dominant male gets from everyone is truly breathtaking, grotesque, and far exceeds… Read more »
@Kryptokate Sorry but I donāt buy that guys donāt care about status except for purposes of landing chicks. Status is rewarding in and of itself for everyone, and of course it has survival valueā¦the more allies and social resources one has, the more likely they are to survive, especially in a primitive environment where you need friends just to stay alive. That’s pure projection on your part Kate. You’re projecting female survival mechanisms onto men. Men do not survive the way that women do, and they do not gain status among other men the way women gain status with other… Read more »
tasdg spanks. “Notice how you moved the goalposts from men get social status from having a 10 on their arm to men get social status from being physically dominant. Betas get validation maybeāsurely not alphas.”
@Jeremy, re: “they do not gain status among other men the way women gain status with other women.”
Right.
@StringofCoins, re: “And we are also aware that in a marriage our wives will do what they can to press is into becoming as unattractive as possible rather then work to help us become our best.”
Is that the equivalent of making us wear male burkhas?
@Kate, re: “It would be helpful for women to understand that it is a natural and normal biological response for them to respond sexually to aggression, but that just because their bodies respond doesnāt mean that it is good or useful for them to follow those instincts.”
Bless you.
@Kate (+ paging Badpainter)
“Iām not saying ALL guys want to do this and maybe you donāt, but lots of them do. I donāt want to āshow offā a guy either”
My “quality” ice queens have been similarly introverted, compared to my extraversion. When we do get all dressed up to go out to functions, besides church several times a week and out to dinner several other times per week, I am merely a large moveable luxury item of hers. Her social proof to other women.
@ GWDT – Let’s slow this down. Do you get that you aren’t answering the basic question I asked you? I don’t give a shit how you dress, and in fact I like the fact that women dress like sluts all the time now, I enjoy it as an aesthetic. As an aside, I live in a college town and I see all these hot young women prancing around in “Yoga Pants” now. I know that when they bought those yoga pants, they tried them on an examined their ass and legs closely to make sure it made them look… Read more »
@Sun Wukong, re: “The funniest thing is when I was young all the adults acted like being smart was such a great thing.” When I went to my 20th high school reunion in the 1980s, 100% all of the women claimed they wished that the smart guys had showed more interest in the girls! I’m serious, women are THAT deluded. Later when we did a goofy game of what you wished you could have changed about yourself back then, nearly all of the girls wished they were smarter. 100% all of the smart guys, not a few of us, marked… Read more »
StringsofCoins also beat me. “My survival is not increased at all by having an attractive woman hanging off of my arm. The only benefit from this is gaining preselection so I can plate other women easier. Something I stopped doing once I got married so I had no desire at all to show my wife off.” My vast experiences in squiring around “high quality” ice queens is that having them on my arm increases other women’s interest … in my ice queen. “Oh, where did you get that purse, dahling?” “Oh, where did you get those shoes? Oh, where did… Read more »
@Kryptokate, re: “they generally donāt want to and the very idea that it turns me on tends to upset them.”
Yes, because it is literally insane for a person to want, to need, other people to treat them badly. And it also would be insane for a person to want to treat others badly. However, since evidently women do need to be treated badly, one way for a non-insane man to go about it is holding his nose in disgust of his own actions.
@Softek Women canāt be expected to keep their hypergamy in check, or even to try to. Theyāre just not going to do it. Theyāre also never going to rationalize their behavior as being wrong in any way, like that guyās wife who messaged me completely out of the blue telling me she wanted to suck my dick. I hear you, I hear your rantz and I am forced to take a deep breath and realize I was arguing with hamsters. However… Men have a constant sex drive many times stronger than women and we can control our polygamous instincts. Women… Read more »
@ jf12
tasdg spanks.
But did she like it?
re: āthey do not gain status among other men the way women gain status with other women.ā
Right.
Kate thinks that men are women with d1cks. Totally doesn’t understand male psychology. She can put together a rational argument, but her hamster screws up her assumptions. Her amygdala torpedoes her cortex.
@Krypt, re: “It releases an enormous burst of dopamine to walk into a room of hundreds of men and have all eyes on you and to get the most desirable men in the room to choose you to hit on as opposed to every other girl in the room. The hit of status-related dopamine makes you feel like youāre the empress of the universe and rule the world. You canāt really blame women for this” Sure I can blame women. All women are like this; certain that they are, or should be, the most unusually highly desirable woman. Whereas the… Read more »
@ jf12
I am merely a large moveable
entertainment consoleluxury item of hers. Her social proof to other women.+1
I’m not an entertainment console, but I am social proof that she presents to other women. Which is why she wants our marriage to transition to open marriage instead of getting a divorce.
@ dragonfly That little temper tantrum was adorable. More of this please. You’re making me blush. @ Kate Yep, we’re all gonna die eventually. How much will any of this matter when we’re on our death beds? Endogenous DMT is interesting. No one knows the purpose of it. I’ve read that the brain releases massive amounts of DMT upon death. AKA the strongest hallucinogen known to mankind. So there’s a good chance we’ll all be tripping balls big time before we leave the stage. Should be a good time. Makes me think of Gaspar Noe’s “Enter the Void.” I also… Read more »
Wonderful comments by Glenn and Softek.
Re: Death… I prefer Epicurus who said…
Life and Death are mutually exclusive, so why fear that which is not a part of your existence? Fear the cage, Fear the life in bed, Fear all that which could leave you living but unable to enjoy it, but never fear death because you’re not dead and have no perspective on that reality.
@ Jeremy To declare all hypergamy as uncontrollable sounds dogmatic and limiting. It basically shoves all women into a ācaged playpenā with the thought that, āwell, I canāt control you, so I have to treat you differently than other adults, welcome to my belief in your limited utility.ā Agreed. There is a TON of useful, verifiably true information floating around the manosphere but “unchecked hypergamy” is a fantasy. It is not what drives most women. If it did every HB5 stay at home mom would have an Ashley Maddison account and would be sleeping with Alpha male Hedge Fund Managers.… Read more »
“It is the actual true feminine desire beyond plates, and one night stands we can never get because we are truly and forever inadequate. Women want the rock, game allows men to become the steel reinforced concrete facsimile of the rock. Same functionality but like an industrial diamond itās not genuine but manufactured. And all know how women feel about fake diamonds.” Some of you guys are really missing the point. Game teaches you about women and how to get the girl, but unless you are so full of gorgeous hotness that all of your other faults can be overlooked… Read more »
re: “Women could behave this way if they wanted to. Most donāt.”
The essential idea of sexual conflict is women making it more difficult for men to reproduce.
@ jf12
The essential idea of sexual conflict is women making it more difficult for men to reproduce.
Yep.
I’m going to advise my sons to only date women ages 18 to 22. Any woman past that age that isn’t in a serious LTR or married has a hole in her head. You don’t want her. Don’t try to figure out why she is still single. Just run.
Bonus point: Nobody else wanted her.
The old fashioned solution to women wanting to look good outside the home but their husbands not wanting to give other men ideas is “dressing up”. Nice long non-formfitting dresses, nothing unseemly showing.
re: “Only the sages can tell who has lost their original nature and who has retained it.”
“And, luckily, by the power vested in me as a sage, I can tell that I’ve retained my original sagely nature.”
Personally I only care how my woman looks naked. The most I want to see on her is a belly chain.
http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/main/images/la_petite_coquette_belly_chain_805.JPG
I don’t like fancy clothes, high heels, make-up, etc. etc.
If a woman looks good in jeans and a t-shirt and no make-up that’s a good looking woman.
@jf12
get saged bruh
Patriarchal monogamy undoubtedly maximizes reproduction, to the extent that males get to choose to do what when, and to the extent that females don’t get to choose not to. Total celibacy undoubtedly minimizes reproduction. Polygyny is a happy medium of sorts, some being happier than others. But polyandry would produce far fewer offspring than polygyny. In addition to the simple numerical fact that women gestate so a single woman can’t have nearly as many children as a single man can, polygyny obviously maximizes the polygynous man’s fertility: if he is having sex regularly with four women, he is most likely… Read more »
@jf12 āWomen could behave this way if they wanted to. Most donāt.ā The essential idea of sexual conflict is women making it more difficult for men to reproduce. More difficult to reproduce is counter-productive to the species. What you mean to say is to remove control or choice over your sexual strategy. The battlefield is over who has the greater power to enact their strategy. The strategies themselves are fairly asymmetric, so the conflict zone encompasses the full gamut of interaction between men and women. Given that, I suppose I should take the entire women’s movement as, in truth, a… Read more »
@ Jeremy Given that, I suppose I should take the entire womenās movement as, in truth, a battle plan against male sexual strategies. That’s a good way to look at it. But I have an alternate hypothesis. All women want to marry up, those that can’t become feminists. Failed women created a political ideology (feminism) that poisoned relationships and harmed the women that were successful under the old system. If failed women couldn’t win, the next best strategy they could pursue was harm the women that could. “You don’t need a man.” “Spend your time on your career.” “Put off… Read more »
Hey Rollo, don’t have your email so i just thought i’d post this here for shits and giggles, semi related to your post. You might have already heard about this.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/watch/video/vi-AA8oZaH?ocid=OutNCAE&from=OutNCAE&FORM=BWVOLC
@Jeremy, re: “Given that, I suppose I should take the entire womenās movement as, in truth, a battle plan against male sexual strategies.”
Yes. BTW “try to make more difficult” doesn’t mean “try to make impossible”. That’s why it is indeed eminently possible to surmount the resistance of women. Women are easy, provided a man decides to be hard against them.
Fascinating to consider that M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) is actually a form of dread, denoting that this type of covert-hostility-warfare is actually as old as time. The U.S./Soviets did not invent this, they just elevated their game to the highest dread level possible.
“Many people think old age brings loneliness and despair, but they donāt realize that sometimes in old age they can recover the carefree and happy life of their childhood. ” This is something I’ve been coming to terms with recently. Vaguely recalling my “girls are icky” days in my youth illuminated the last time in my life I was not conflicted concerning female behavior. I feel like this is an important part of the essence of the red pill. Girls were as frivolous and contrary then as they are as adults now. Growing up with both parents and a somewhat… Read more »