One of the most endemic masculine pitfalls men have faced since the rise of feminine social primacy has been the belief that their ready displays of emotional vulnerability will make men more desirable mates for women.
In an era when men are raised from birth to be “in touch with their feminine sides”, and in touch with their emotions, we get generations of men trying to ‘out-emote’ each other as a mating strategy.
To the boys who grow into Beta men, the ready eagerness with which they’ll roll over and reveal their bellies to women comes from a conditioned belief that doing so will prove their emotional maturity and help them better identify with the women they mistakenly believe have a capacity to appreciate it.
What they don’t understand is that the voluntary exposing of ones most vulnerable elements isn’t the sign of strength that the Feminine Imperative has literally bred a belief of into these men.
A reflexive exposing of vulnerability is an act of submission, surrender and a capitulation to an evident superior. Dogs will roll over almost immediately when they acknowledge the superior status of another dog.
Vulnerability is not something to be brandished or proud of. While I do believe the insight and acknowledgement of your personal vulnerabilities is a necessary part of understanding oneself (particularly when it comes to unplugging oneself), it is not the source of attraction, and certainly not arousal, that most men believe it is for women.
From the comfort of the internet and polite company women will consider the ‘sounds-right’ appeal of male vulnerability with regard to what they’re supposed to be attracted to, but on an instinctual, subconscious level, women make a connection with the weakness that vulnerability represents.
A lot of men believe that trusting displays of vulnerability are mutually exclusive of displays of weakness, but what they ignore is that Hypergamy demands men that can shoulder the burden of performance. When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of weakness.
The problem with idealizing a position of strength is in thinking you’re already beginning from that strength and your magnanimous display of trusting vulnerability will be appreciated by a receptive woman. I strongly disagree with assertions like those of various Purple Pill ‘life coaches’ that open, upfront vulnerability is ever attractive to a woman.
The idea goes that if a man is truly outcome-independent with his being rejected by a woman, the first indicator of that independence is a freedom to be vulnerable with her. The approach then becomes one of “hey, I’m just gonna be my vulnerable self and if you’re not into me then I’m cool with that.”
The hope is that a woman will receive this approach as intended and find something refreshing about it, but the sad truth is that if this were the attraction key its promoters wish it was, every guy ‘just being himself‘ would be swimming in top shelf pussy. This is a central element to Beta Game – the hope that a man’s openness will set him apart from ‘other guys’ – it is common practice for men who believe in the equalist fantasy that women will rise above their feral natures when it comes to attraction, and base their sexual selection on his emotional intelligence.
The fact is that there is no such thing as outcome independence. The very act of your approaching a woman means you have made some effort to arrive at a favorable outcome with her. The fact that you’d believe a woman would even find your vulnerability attractive voids any pretense of outcome independence.
Hypergamy Doesn’t Care About Male Vulnerability
When I wrote Women in Love and the followups, Men in Love and Of Love and War, I described men’s concept of love as ‘idealistic’.
Naturally, simple minds exaggerated this into “men just want an impossible unconditional love” or “they want love like they think their mothers loved them.” For what it’s worth, I don’t believe any rational man with some insight ever expects an unconditional love, but I think it’s important to consider that a large part of what constitutes his concept of an idealized love revolves around being loved irrespective of how he performs for, or merits that love.
From Of Love and War:
We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.
We want to, so badly.
If we do, we soon are no longer able to.
The concept of men’s idealistic love, the love that makes him the true romantic, begins with a want of freedom from his burden of performance. It’s not founded in an absolute like unconditional love, but rather a love that isn’t dependent upon his performing well enough to assuage a woman’s Hypergamous concept of love.
Oh, the Humanity!
As the true romantics, and because of the performance demands of Hypergamy, there is a distinct want for men to believe that in so revealing their vulnerabilities they become more “human” – that if they expose their frailties to women some mask they believe they’re wearing comes off and (if she’s a mythical “quality woman“™) she’ll excuses his inadequacies to perform to the rigorous satisfaction of her Hypergamy.
The problems with this ‘strength in surrender’ hope are twofold.
First, the humanness he believes a woman will respect isn’t the attraction cue he believes it is. Ten minutes perusing blogs about the left-swiping habits of women using Tinder (or @Tinderfessions) is enough to verify that women aren’t desirous of the kind of “humanness” he’s been conditioned to believe women are receptive to.
In the attraction and arousal stages, women are far more concerned with a man’s capacity to entertain her by playing a role and presenting her with the perception of a male archetype she expects herself to be attracted to and aroused by. Hypergamy doesn’t care about how well you can express your humanness, and primarily because the humanness men believe they’re revealing in their vulnerability is itself a predesigned psychological construct of the Feminine Imperative.
Which brings us to the second problem with ‘strength in surrender’. The caricaturized preconception men have about their masculine identity is a construct of a man’s feminine-primary socialization.
The Masks the Feminine Imperative Makes Men Wear
To explain this second problem it’s important to grasp how men are expected to define their own masculine identities within a social order where the only correct definition of masculinity is prepared for men in a feminine-primary context.
What I mean by this is that the humanness that men wish to express in showing themselves as vulnerable is defined by feminine-primacy.
For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.
Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.
Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.
Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.
“The Mask You Live In” by director Jennifer Siebel Newsom (dual surname noted) is the perfect example of this perpetuation. You have a woman deciding for a larger public in a documentary what the male experience is and then solving the problem (i.e. the tired trope of men needing to get more in touch with their emotions) for men.
Men are ridiculous posers. Men are socialized to wear masks to hide what the Feminine Imperative has decided is their true natures (they’re really girls wearing boy masks). Men’s problems extend from their inability to properly emote like women, and once they are raised better (by women and men who comply with the Feminine Imperative) they can cease being “tough” and get along better with women. That’s the real strength that comes from men’s feminized concept of vulnerability – compliance with the Feminine Imperative.
Ironically Newsom is still oblivious to the fact that she can only create such a documentary in an environment of feminine-primacy. No man could produce this and be taken seriously in our contemporary social climate.
It’s indictment of the definers of what masculinity ought to be that they still characterize modern masculinity (based on the ‘feels’) as being problematic when for generations our feminine-primary social order has conditioned men to associate that masculinity in as feminine-beneficial a context as women would want.
They still rely on an outdated formula which presumes the male experience is inferior, a sham, in comparison to the female experience, and then presumes to know what the male experience really is and offers feminine-primary solutions for it.
From The 16 Commandments of Poon:
IV. Don’t play by her rules
If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
True vulnerability is not a value-added selling point for a man when it comes to approaching and attracting women. As with all things, your vulnerability is best discovered by a woman through demonstration –never explaining those vulnerabilities to her with the intent of appearing more human as the feminine would define it.
Women want a bulwark against their own emotionalism, not a co-equal male emoter whose emotionalism would compete with her own. The belief that male vulnerability is a strength is a slippery slope from misguided attraction to emotional codependency, to overt dependency on a woman to accommodate and compensate for the weaknesses that vulnerability really implies.
I know a lot of guys think that displays vulnerability from a position of Alpha dominance, or strength can be endearing for a woman when you’re engaged in an LTR, but I’m saying that’s only the case when the rare instance of vulnerability is unintentionally revealed. Vulnerability is not a strength, and especially not when a man deliberately reveals it with the expectation of a woman appreciating it as a strength.
At some point in any LTR you will show your vulnerable side, and there’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is the overt attempt to parlay that vulnerability into a strength or virtue that you expect that woman to appreciate, feel endearment over or reciprocate with displays of her own vulnerability for.
A chink in the armor is a weakness best kept from view of those who expect you to perform your best in all situations. If that chink is revealed in performing your best, then it may be considered a strength for having overcome it while performing to your best potential. It is never a strength when you expect it to be appreciated as such.
@Hobbes re: “it’s a womans job to make men feel great.”
Yes. That’s what women are *for*. Now let’s see how long it will take for a woman to admit seeing that.
@myrealitie November 24th, 2014 at 3:39 pm “Why did I happen to be reading this article today? Because recently my very successful and generally sexy husband has been moping this week about a very minor career mishap that he has been obsessing over. And it really tanks my attraction. I don’t even think the actual event is a big deal whatsoever, but rather, his moping and showing excessive vulnerability around it. Thank god he actually caught that he was stressing me out with his behavior. It’s not like talking to me about it even helps him! If he kept his… Read more »
Probably the only women who are somewhat sexually charitable are some of the older pros. The women who have seen (and smelled, and taken into themselves) the worst of men, far too many for far too long, the women who have been treated the worst by men. These are the only women likely to be sexually sympathetic sometimes.
Why aren’t women more mortifiedly ashamed of being so very terrible to the men they lyingly profess to love?
@myrealitie
I didn’t unload emotionally. I never wept. I didn’t scream. I asked for some help.
@ myrealitie I don’t see unchecked hypergamy going anywhere, no matter how much you cry about it. I use hypergamy to torment unchaste women. The alphas around me are lesser and women compare them to me and keep trying to interest me. Sure, they sex up the lesser alphas, but they still are tormented because they can’t have me. I need to flirt with them mercilessly to really amp up the frustration. Making it fun, of course, so they don’t know what’s going on. There’s one married woman who keeps defending her husband to me and mothering him on the… Read more »
@Atticus – I am not going anywhere, but yes, I want to have a great relationship, so I work to try to understand how that can happen. And I know from experience that going down the path of providing comfort in the face of moping leads to a downward spiral. First of all, men don’t feel better when women provide comfort. They feel worse, and it is emasculating. But if a woman provides this comfort happily, the man is reinforced for whining, because he is getting a good response from her (been down this path before). Then, he feels more… Read more »
I played the traditional amercian man role model at the captain america livel; crashed and burned. never again women do not want that.
@Atticus – Your story is heartbreaking, but I have a hard time believing it is as simple as: You were great guy for decades and then suddenly you stumble a bit and she bolts. It’s hard to comment with such little information other than to express great sadness for you and your children.
“@Glenn, congrats on the epic rant. I really like this part “I say if a woman really gets that suffering, they should throw these guys a lay.” My admitting to myself (and the world; I get kind of loud) my knowing of women’s complete and utter lack of sexual sympathy/empathy/charity was perhaps the great redpill turning point in my life. It was my big “Do Not Want!!!” moment, on a social news site a while back.” Well, at least I know now that you are both insane, and with that I’ll leave this conversation. That had to be one of… Read more »
Women always try to lie about their reasoning about their lack of charity. “First of all, men don’t feel better when women provide comfort.” Wrong. So very wrong. Women hate to provide comfort to a man who needs it; women love to provide comfort to a man who scorns it. In both cases, the man enjoys the woman doing her job of trying to make the man feel great. Women also always lie about their reasoning about their projection. “my husband also feels less sexual attraction to me during periods that I am needy or helpless.” Wrong. Men like sex… Read more »
@myrealitie “I have found it is much better to turn away in the face of moping and act disgusted. It stimulates actual action and prevents this cycle. And if we have a son I’ll do the same with him.” Thank you for proving my point that women today are not worth the investment or bother. Here, lets do an experiment go show your hubby what you wrote there. Then lets ask him, “is she really worthy of your love and honor?” If he still answers yes, he is a simp, a bottom feeder and less than a man. If he… Read more »
@sfcton, re: Captain America failz.
Correct. Strong Good Man doesn’t work with women, because it isn’t actually Strength per se that does it. Strong Bad Man works, because Bad works.
@jf12 – you are not in the category of “man” at this point as far as I am concerned, so any accounts of your own preferences are void and do not add to the discussion. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are the male equivalent of a hamster on meth.
@jf12- true that my friends, very true
@Hobbes many men actually do this to each other. Why? Because it is actually disrespectful to act as if you believe your male friend cannot handle his own shit.
I guess that social group was too busy stuffing you into a locker so you missed that lesson.
@ jf12
The feral Feminine Imperative *demands* that an apex alpha be made sexually available to her without cost during a fertile period and then that apex alpha bemade to deteriorate throughout the short honeymoon period, so that he will be satisfied with intimacy instead of sex happily ever after. The FI *demands* bed death, among other things. It’s not the fault of men for not being strong enough.
I strongly disagree. Bed death is only for betas. Alphas are to be available to women on demand. On call 24/7.
Crazylittle laughs at the very idea of a man needing charity. Laughs and laughs and laughs. Thereby confirming her heartlessness. Women’s solispism is thereby shown to be explicitly malicious and not the least bit ignorant.
The maestro takes a bow.
@ crazylittle Yes, while I’m offering up my body in sacrifice to all those poor men who lack the ability to get laid, why don’t all of you do the same and mercy fuck all of the lonely, obese, hideous, middle aged trolls who can’t get any either. Oh and while you’re at it while don’t you pay their rent for them too, since they have no one to take care of them and you ought to feel sorry for their suffering and make it better simply out of your pure humanity, with nothing to gain for yourself. If I… Read more »
“Be a bad boy. Be an emotional robot. Be strong without any weaknesses. Be completely immune to heartache and completely dismiss everything a woman ever says or does.” JF12
That seems awful familiar…….
Epic rant Glen
@ JF I am not laughing at lonely men who can’t get laid. I am laughing at your notion that it is my responsibility to offer myself up sexually to these poor dudes out of pity. Why, exactly, is that my or any woman’s responsibility, any more than it is your responsibility to pay some strange, lonely woman’s rent? I have sex with men i desire to have sex with. not men i feel sorry for. You are apeshit crazy.
@ jf12
Crazylittle laughs at the very idea of a man needing charity. Laughs and laughs and laughs. Thereby confirming her heartlessness. Women’s solispism is thereby shown to be explicitly malicious and not the least bit ignorant.
The maestro takes a bow.
The crowd goes wild, showering him with adulation. Well, the MGTOWs, anyway.
It’s interesting how much hate I generated when I first proposed that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically. I probably should’ve wrote Intimacy and Vulnerability (maybe Empathy too) before I published the Love series, those post would’ve made a better preface for it. I think there’s a primal fear that most Beta men experience when the source of their ability to provide (i.e. perform) dries up and they’re confronted with the prospect of having to rely on the provisioning of their wives to sustain a family. http://therationalmale.com/2013/01/14/house-of-cards/ In the words of Chris Rock, “Men, if you lose your job,… Read more »
Crazylittle pretends to forget we are discussing women refusing to allow men to be vulnerable within relationships. Fear not, I’m here to keep reminding. And to keep asking: What do women think they are for?
Crazylittle (parsed): “I am laughing at your notion that it is my responsibility to offer myself up sexually to [the poor man I claim to love] out of pity.”
jf12: “The realtie is that even that women think that it is too much of a burden to be even such a pathetically easy version of a reasonably nice woman.”
No, the person who posted that was referring to lonely male virgins who had never gotten laid. Not a partner in an already established relationship.
Crazylittle wrote: “Why, exactly, is that my or any woman’s responsibility, any more than it is your responsibility to pay some strange, lonely woman’s rent?” In fact it is my responsibility to pay some strange, lonely woman’s rent. I don’t have any choice in the matter. Me and many other men are paying for many lonely women’s rent. Rent that used to be paid by husbands who received some value in return. And my son is going to be paying the social security of the childless modern “liberated” women that I meet everyday. Yes, there is such a thing as… Read more »
Yes, it is a “complete inability” yet some of men who are stuck respond as if it is a choice, with enormous anger and a sense of being wronged. There is even a beauty in it that the men are overlooking: If you can act like you feel good about how things are going and you are on top of it, you can cruise your wife and kids happily into their new trailer at the trailer park. In other words, the actual circumstances don’t matter as much as your attitude, which is the one thing you actually can control (unlike… Read more »
Crazylitte is too modest sounds more lie crazylots.
A woman cant handle real emotional surrender from a man, irrespective of how alpha. She can deal with objective difficulties as long as (i) you are trying and (ii) she does not have better realistic options. If a man wants to have a family, he needs to have a healthy SMV lead over his mate and constantly reinforce that he expects to be the #1 priority in his mate’s life in exchange for his emotional security and protection. While no defense against a letdown, a woman who is constantly on guard to please you, will take a while to go… Read more »
I wonder which will get conceded first by a woman.
1. She knows that she ought to try to make her man feel great, and that she deliberately fails miserably specifically to make him feel worse.
2. “women’s feelings change all the time, and are not linked to objective reality. Hence, a woman “feeling great” has zero (nay, negative) predictive value.”
It’s a race, of sorts. Who’s gonna win? Believe it or not, I confidently predict Number 1.
@Atticus – Your story is heartbreaking, but I have a hard time believing it is as simple as: You were great guy for decades and then suddenly you stumble a bit and she bolts. It’s hard to comment with such little information other than to express great sadness for you and your children. The time frame was compressed for brevity. My personal questioning of my direction occurred over a year. The thing is the ideas in many of Rollo’s posts on gender behavior, specifically requirements of men, are unkown to 99% of men. It used to be that your Dad… Read more »
@New Yorker – “If a man wants to have a family, he needs to have a healthy SMV lead over his mate and constantly reinforce that he expects to be the #1 priority in his mate’s life in exchange for his emotional security and protection. While no defense against a letdown, a woman who is constantly on guard to please you, will take a while to go on the offensive even in the worst of times.” – I think this is wise. @Atticus – I agree with what you are saying. There has been a breakdown in traditions and institutions… Read more »
@realitie
And my husband takes himself very seriously, which I like and respect, but no, I do not like it when I am exposed to his anxiety over a truly trivial error that is not, in reality, going to threaten his career advancement in any way.
You still don’t get it. It’s not all about you. Think of him. Why does this matter to him? Your selfishness is unreal.
You don’t like it when your exposed to his anxiety. Get over it. Let him alone. He’ll work it out
Myrealitie – ” In other words, the actual circumstances don’t matter as much as your attitude, which is the one thing you actually can control (unlike circumstances). This fact should be enormously freeing, so why is everyone fighting it so hard?”
Bullshit.
@Atticus – Well, this actually goes back to your earlier point. I would be happy to let him work it out, and he might prefer to do that by himself also. But currently we spend a lot more time together than we might in an older world. Maybe part of the solution is to spend a bit more time apart. Currently, after work we are immediately together talking about our days. Maybe it would be better if he spent more time privately unwinding and working through his angst. And I am sharing my feelings here honestly so that the men… Read more »
http://www.justfourguys.com/displays-of-weakness/
Great post Rollo! On ‘Vulnerability’: Sometimes I tear up when watching a movie. Y’know, something touches who I am in a personal way that stokes the fire of emotion inside. When this happens I always turn away from my partner. I don’t let her see it. She may get it that I am touched but I make it clear in a physical way that it’s none of her business and she gets that. Same thing with mistakes. I can admit I made a wrong choice but there is no apology. No ‘I’m sorry’. Being honest about a mistake and being… Read more »
* Pokes head in.
reviews comments.
nods head knowingly, secure in the knowledge that truths are being confirmed from the horses’ mouths.
First, from myrealitie, a married woman watching a husband’s anxiety and losing attraction for him.
Then from crazylittle, a single woman with no compassion or empathy whatsoever for a man’s pain. (No, crazylittle, no one really expects you to offer up pityfucks to unattractive men.)
Thanks, myrealitie and crazylittle. I really appreciate this. The next time I’m told that there’s no truth at all in the ‘sphere, I’ll return here, to these comments.
*swoops out
The takeaway message from myrealitie:
“Do not ask for quarter, no quarter will be given.”
Hypergamy is a harsh mistress, but there you have it gentlemen. Use that knowledge as you will.
Oh well, since even I predict I’ll be waiting too long otherwise (to wait for her to concede knowing that women’s flightly feelings are basically meaningless), I give in and ask
myrealitie: In what way are you behaving towards your husband as if you sincerely believe “this is wise” that he “constantly reinforce he expects to be the #1 priority in his mate’s life” and that you are “constantly on guard to please” him?
How are you pleasing him? How are you showing him he is your #1 priority?
These are easy easy questions.
Well written Rollo and thank you for the concise article. As a bit of an aside, I’d say men are vulnerable when they are kicked in the balls by events or when they know they have fallen short of their ideal. While both situations are deadly if relayed to a woman, the latter is more subtle. That is, I think men idealize everything. Better yet, I think that men can envision the perfect form and strive to achieve that perfect form, knowing through introspection when they have almost reached the ideal only to have it slip away—reality has flaws. This… Read more »
Myrealitie – “But I personally don’t think there is a place for anger at the nature of women – I think it is counterproductive.” Probably. But you just consider We were taught men and women are equals. Obviously that’s not true. We’re sold the idea of equal partnership, again bullshit. We were told by women that women like/appreciate sensitive men. More lies. We were told by women to be ourselves, not be afraid to cry, be nice, put women’s needs first, be good providers, to not make sexual demands, be respectful, even to defer to women in situations where technical… Read more »
Nailed it – as you do so often Rollo.
*blush*
Oh, but Badpainter, Mark Manson says your doubt makes you human and if it’s one thing ALL women love it’s humanity… http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2na0bh/vulnerability/cmbulix When most men hear the word “vulnerability,” their immediate reaction is to associate it with weakness. In general, men are raised to withhold their emotions, to not show weakness, and to ignore any hint of introspection. I want you to think of vulnerability in a more broad way. Not just emotional vulnerability, but physical vulnerability, social vulnerability. For instance, making yourself vulnerable doesn’t just mean being willing to share your fears or insecurities. It can mean putting yourself… Read more »
Don’t expect an (honest) answer, jf12. After all, if her husbandi s anxious about something and it makes her feel bad SHE’S the victim. Ya know, kinda like Hilary said that women are the primary victims of war becuase they lose their husbands and sons and all that…
“You have spoken the unspoken. If women had the power to burn you on the cross, they would. Keep on spreading the word.” Buckets and hoses are locked and loaded. About the only time a woman can experience a vulnerability a man has, as was stated in the post, is when she happens to witness it. And that would need to occur when it pertains to a situation that is in someway off limits to women. And even then, there’s the risk of her comparing that particular man to another who went through the experience, but maybe due to being… Read more »
Manson is master bullshit artist.
He does nice job of conflating IDGAF with vulnerability. So I agree in part: “this is me take it or leave it, but I am still not watching Old Yeller with you.”
Women love Humanity, nerds, nice guys, about the same: in their minds but not in their realities.
re: “Give women false compliments and see how they respond. They won’t respond very well.”
They’ll respond quite well if you make it clear the compliments are false. But, it is true, women will respond better to being given false negs instead. The key is to make your statements as inauthentic, and conditional,as possible.
@ Badpainter: “We were taught men and women are equals. Obviously that’s not true. We’re sold the idea of equal partnership, again bullshit. We were told by women that women like/appreciate sensitive men. More lies.” /sarc on But, you see, Badpainter, according to the feminists and tradcons among us, you were supposed to figure all this out on your own. You are to blame for your own bad outcomes because you didn’t figure out that everyone was lying to you. You were supposed to read books, watch movies, and observe the social dynamics of the top dogs and the hot… Read more »
The girls are just saying “Man Up!” Face it, once a day someone is going to say, World (logic, finances, emotional foundation) be damned you losers, Man Up!
Also, the Man Up! adherents (male or female) never bother to announce that they’ll forgo the one-way options that the sexual marketplace now enforces.
Their kitchen is their world, so what happens in the schools, at CPS and the family law courts, in the university systems, and in the gender-sensitive corporations is just another anecdote from wussified men.
I was feeling kinda poorly last week (compared to how grrreat! I feel this week), probably a reaction to getting my yellow card renewed again. I feigned a grumpy distaste for certain unsatisfying behaviors, even while looking pretty ill standing in line to get my prescription filled, instead of authentically blaming myself and my vulnerabilities. And voila, I got some of what I want, although asalways little enough of what I need.
The fact that women respond *better* to inauthenticity must be the worst kept secret ever.
Just get it, Badpainter! Just figure it out for yourself! Just read “How to Win Friends and Influence People”! Just read some books! Just watch how Fuckbuddy Rockbanddrummer does it! Just don’t be liberal! Just figure it out!
” All of these things require you to stick your neck out on the line emotionally in some way. You’re making yourself vulnerable when you do them. In this way, vulnerability represents a form of power, a deep and subtle form of power. A man who’s able to make himself vulnerable is saying to the world, “I don’t care what you think of me; this is who I am, and I refuse to be anyone else.” He’s saying he’s not needy and that he’s high status.” Sounds like a confusion of risk taker vs. a vulnerability. It’s not the sticking… Read more »
@Water Cannon Boy, that was my first take on the reddit sub. Risk taking is not vulnerability, it is a display of confidence in one’s capabilities in an uncertain situation. Rejection is better than regret. Manson offers nothing that Dr. Phil or Steve Harvey haven’t already covered for the past 20 years. He presumes a default weakness in men from a feminine defined context of masculinity. If an openness for vulnerability, intimacy and love were determinants in attraction Manson would have no one at his seminars, because that’s what a majority of men believe will set themselves apart from the… Read more »
@Badpainter, musing about ‘manity, nerds, and nice guys.
Almost every woman that will open up to me (which is not a few) eventually winds up reminiscing about her being a nerdy nice teenage …boy. Seriously. Almost every woman harbors the fantasy that she literally *was* one of the many boys that she turned down.
Ladies, I would like to thank you for your honesty. It is rare these days for a women to admit such things as myrealitie does regarding her attraction to her husband after he showed vulnerability. That being said, do you at least see why men historically have viewed women as only good for one thing? You are essentially admitting that is true. Anything else a man might want or need from you will only turn you off and lead to a downward spiral. If you complain about men objectifying you, you have only yourselves to blame.
BV: Yes. Myrealitie is here essentially saying “Why can’t he man up? Why can’t he just grit his teeth and put his head down and push on through all this? It is all about me; because if he cannot man up and get through this, I’m in big trouble.” Crazylittle is saying “Men have to man up, because I’m not going to be attracted to a man who can’t do that; and I’m sure as hell not going to enjoy having sex with a man who can’t Man Up.” Myrealitie and Crazy are just being brutally honest here. I for… Read more »
Deti, I figured it out. I get it. I’m even mostly over my anger. But I’ll be damned if I am gonna be lectured by a woman about anything but menstration, and giving live birth. Further I’ll be damned if I have to give a single shit, proactively or reactively, about some broads fragile anxious emotional state. Comfort can negotiated or sexual favors. I’ll not be taking feelz as valid when comes to observations of reality. I’ll not be validating the mere accident of existance coupled with speech. I cook better than most women, I clean better, I’m stronger, smarter,… Read more »
Deti, one of these two feminine advisers threw her husband into the omega slag heap because he’s out of sorts for *one week.* A few days. It ruined her buzz. He needs to step it up, or it’s the practice squad for him. Again: he’s had a crappy *week* and her core motivation for being married *for life* is on the bubble. And all that is, according to her, his fault. Anyway, the reality is that in the corporation, classroom, courtroom or child services realms, a man who does what these two demand (being strong, independent, emotionally reserved, reticent) gets… Read more »
@deti re: “Women don’t want to admit this, because admitting this would make them look shallow, superficial and bitchy.”
One of women’s (many) vulnerabilities is that they cannot face their own intrinsic lack of charity. To the women who, knowing how uncharitable they themselves are, nonetheless bravely resolve to try to do better even merely by “acting” charitable instead of feeling charitable, know that you deserve our applause.
Rollo, been thinking about risk here and at Ton’s lately. I think men undertake risk to qualify themselves to themselves. Some also do it because it’s quickly a chemical need. That women quiver for a risk-taker, in my view, is completely ancillary. I never met anyone who risked life and psyche for a chick. The women are just the post-event salve, the tertiary benefit. Smart men know that their attractions are finite, if the risk-taking goes poorly or becomes outgrown. Recall when Dennis Quaid, in On Any Sunday, admits his fear and physical infirmities to his wife. She won’t stand… Read more »
Assuming risk is not vulnerability as Manson would sell it. If anything it presumes an invulnerability or an irrational self-confidence.
Assuming the argument here is true, men need to learn two things: 1) How to regulate and manage their emotions. I personally use “Faster EFT” for this, on top of working out/getting plenty of physical activity regularly, getting plenty of sleep (very important for emotional regulation), and taking care of my nutrition through a good diet and supplements. 2) Women are incapable of appreciating what you’ve gone through to be the rock that you are for them. And they’re incapable of appreciating that you are a rock for them, or understanding the emotional depth, wisdom, and strength and integrity of… Read more »
re: anger. Men are not angry at the bloated beached whales stinking up their lives. Men aren’t angry, either, at having to exert so much effort to deal with the mounds of useless rot. Men are, however, a *little* angry about being billed for our own efforts, at having to pay for lugging the mess. And righteously men can get very angry at being charged exorbitantly for the “male privilege”. I return to the analogy of a woman as a broken car. The man is the tow truck, who has to cart her wreck around, and he has to *pay*… Read more »
@Deti
I would argue that admitting such openly strips the veneer from a social construct the Feminine Imperative would rather men not know.
It’s a means to power and power for women always ends with the perception of controlling the circumstances necessary to optimize their Hypergamous nature.
Compare myrealities and CrazyLil’s admissions to the long term efforts it took to produce “The Mask You Live In” documentary I linked in this post:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/boys-gender-equity-crisis/
I think risk-taking is self-actualizing as well — something healthier than either a foolish sense of invulnerability, or an irrational self-confidence. I think it’s a transitional process: we become someone better through achievement and testing and all the rest of it. Anyway, that’s all off topic.
Rollo – “Assuming risk is not vulnerability as Manson would sell it. If anything it presumes an invulnerability or an irrational self-confidence.” When you put it that way I have to reevaluate Manson’s article. I think he is describing masculine vulnerability from woman’s perspective where assuming risk is vulnerability. What we are talking about here, and as epitomized by Myrealitie, is not vulnerability but failure and weakness, from a woman’s perspective. Obviously women don’t get it. I suspect they can’t. The difference is this: Women see vulnerability as an exposure to external threat. Men see it as a conscious loss… Read more »
Thank you to the two female commenters for showing us that women are only good for sex, and nothing else. Take away sex and the ability to have children, that in a nutshell is the today’s women. Completely useless.
Damn bruv! Gems! Straight from down town, straight butter!
To quote the child in the Matrix….”There is no spoon!”
I see this shit everyday fam, it’s disheartening…but change is on the way.
Manson uses the V word, but when I parse the benefits of ‘vulnerability’ that he describes, it looks to me like he is actually describing a man putting himself as his own mental point of origin.
The FI wants men to believe that doing so poses great risk to a man. So Manson’s spiel ends up sounding like he is advocating risk taking behavior, which he calls ‘vulnerability’.
Robin Thicke is exhibiting his intimate vulnerability these days …
http://www.tmz.com/2014/11/24/robin-thicke-girlfriend-kids-april-love-geary-pic/
‘Skin me, Sisr Paula,’ sez Brer Robin, ‘snatch out my eyeballs, t’ar
out my yeras by de roots, en cut off my legs, but do please, Sisr
Paula, please don’t fling me in dat brier-patch’.
You knows I cain’t haindle a 19 yr old eager model. Hailp!
Ever wonder why every single one of every woman’s solutions, all of feminists’ solutions, all of lesbians’ solutions, all their supporters’ solutions, every single one has as its main intended effect less sex for hetero men?
I mean, have you ever wondered since the red pill, since now you know why?
Irrational self-confidence is what one should develop toward one’s life. You can then honestly talk about what you face to woman while keeping frame. That is the only way you can ever discuss things with her while giving yourself an emotional outlet with her. Your confidence IS your emotion.
When you see the comment from the females, and reflect on what Rollo has been telling us, I feel that the whole “Tinder” phenomenon will only be more prevalent, and, so will “the world’s oldest profession”….
i feel the need to say it again:
a mans relationship with a woman should resemble animal husbandry, not some twinked out “equal” blah blah.
they (women) are NOT fully human in the way that men can be, so stop trying to make them fit that mold. love them in spite of your knowledge, an dont get disappointed with their failings.
after all, do you get angry when your dog misbehaves or if your drill won’t work? it just is what it is.
forward…. push through.
“When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of weakness. The problem with idealizing a position of strength is in thinking you’re already beginning from that strength and your magnanimous display of trusting vulnerability will be appreciated by a receptive woman.” [from the article] Even if you are beginning from a position of strength, by intentionally presenting your vulnerabilities to someone who is subordinate, you are declaring that she is functionally qualified to receive this information, which implies that she is also qualified to participate in the mitigation of your deficiencies, as an… Read more »
@Softek – I agree with most of what you write. I disagree that a dominance-submission dynamic can only exist in the context of the man being the provider and the woman not working outside of the home. A woman working outside of the home doesn’t mean she is trying to take over the world, it is just something that some women enjoy doing, and it can add value to the economy and the family. You also seemed to imply that feminine energy means coddling grown men emotionally. If you did not mean that, then I apologize. It’s one thing to… Read more »
@eon – “You can get that (coach) type of directive input only from someone who is independent of you, who doesn’t depend on you for psychological certainty and stability, and whom both of you recognize as being superior to you, in a relevant way, in that moment.”
I think that is excellently articulated.
@jf12: “What is it that women think they are *for*? If you are a woman, why would a man choose to be with you, to communicate with you, to have a relationship with you, instead of some guy? What of you is valuable for him? (hint: I’m asking this in the context of his vulnerability/intimacy)” This is what I am trying to figure out. Seems like heads they win, tails we lose. When things are good they might stick around, but if anything goes pear-shaped (her figure doesnt count) in terms of career/finances/frame and vulnerability ekes out then its curtains?… Read more »
If you’ve never seen the movie Blue Valentine, check it out this holiday weekend (it’s on Netflix).
This story accurately portrays where the belief that vulnerabilities are a strength leads to. It is exactly what happens to men who believe that their openness to a feminine defined sensitivity will be endearingly received and appreciated by women.
An excellent refresher on one of the core, and most disheartening, tenets of red pill awareness…….how women TRULY see you. Male utility and disposability. You are a draft horse. A draft horse doesn’t get to complain or show weakness. It’s only purpose is to labor for the benefit of others. If it cannot do so, it must be discarded for a better draft horse. Angry? No. No point. A shark is a shark. It does what it does. Knowing this is 90% of the battle. Protect yourself accordingly. However, I do hope that someday, women everywhere achieve the ‘equality’ they… Read more »
Brilliant.
The true nature of vulnerability for men.
Glenn November 24th, 2014 at 10:55 am My point is that with this theory, and others, they now have proof that we are evil and they have the upper hand morally in every encounter. From the outset, and really, at all times. Ah. Yes. But the trouble is that the Right has a few real problems to clean up but the right falls into the trap of “if they favor it, I oppose it”. Thus giving the miscreants ammunition. Take this John Erlichman quote: “Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in… Read more »
@ myrealitie I’m not even sure what coddling means, to be honest. I think that term can get confused with sex and affection. I wouldn’t think of a woman rubbing my back or cooking for me as coddling, for example. If women aren’t providing physical pleasure for a man, which is sex and affection, I can’t see any reason why men would want to have anything to do with them at all. I don’t see how women could ever take the reins on anything when the only value they’re capable of providing to a man is not something that even… Read more »
That’s why a Red Pill equivalent for women (how to be more feminine) probably doesn’t work very well
There is a Red Pill equivalent for women. It is mentioned in the Bible. Be submissive to your chosen man.
I’m teaching this to the first mate. It is a long hard slog. But when she submits she is happier. And admits it.
@JQ “This article leaves me thinking about the concept of vulnerability. After reading Models by Mark Manson I have not read a critique on that concept.” I read that book as well. Well before my intro to the red pill. I haven’t heard of or read a ‘critique on that concept yet’ either. Until this post by Rollo. Let’s take a look. From ‘Models’ by Mark Manson… (Page 53) “From a evolutionary perspective, vulnerability makes perfect sense as an indicator to a women of a male’s status and fitness.” (Page 54) “This behavior implies high status, a man who is… Read more »
@dcllcd,
Thanks for the page quotes, pretty much sums up my assessment of Manson’s purple pill adovacy.
Your welcome.
It might also interest you to know that when he re-released the book he said he was going to take out the sections on working out and grooming. He felt they weren’t as important as his other ‘advice’.
That sure is strange.
Is Manson heavily promoting the BB side of Hypergamy?
becoming a man can only be achieved through challenges, risks and hardship. Often with mentor-ship from other men. Women cannot build positive masculine strength
there are all sorts of risks etc men face the SMP is most def one of them. Men like Rollo are providing that mentorship from a far
The best two books about women are
How to be your Dogs Best Friend
How to be Your Puppy’s Best Friend
Booth by the Monks of New Skete
@myrealitie re: “It’s one thing to take direction from a man to meet his needs and the family’s needs. To me, that is a manifestation of feminine energy.”
Yes. This is The One Thing that all women fail so terribly. Some worse than others. But it’s so easy for a woman to do.
@Softek re: coddling.
“I wouldn’t think of a woman rubbing my back or cooking for me as coddling, for example.” You would if she did it in a coddling way.
One Thing women get so wrong is that women DO coddle the men they love. Women LOVE to coddle alphas. Alphas aren’t out there fearlessly leading invulnerably; alphas are in the warm bath getting their backs scratched by some unpaid geishas while other unpaid geishas soapily slither around their fronts.
Oops, forgot the punch line. The line where you can’t tell if I’m punching you or you wanna punch me.
The very fact that women cannot stand to coddle LTR men proves that women are lying stinkers who cannot be trsuted more than a few months at maximum.
Sometimes ya just gotta Blame ie on The Turks!
http://www.smh.com.au/world/turkish-president-tayyip-erdogan-to-feminists-equality-is-contrary-to-nature-20141124-11t2gj.html
I’ve been spending the last few minutes laughing to myself about “a bad week.” The phrase perfectly describes how I unwittingly narrowly avoided marriage to somebody regrettable. A couple I know are putting their union on the chopping block after 30+ years. Imagine her self-righteous outrage that he flew to an island and started a relationship with someone new and 15 years younger than she. Admittedly ham-fisted on my part, I quietly reminded her that she conscripted him to bed-death and the basement man-cave for the 2 years prior to his departure. Who gave up on who first? The mere… Read more »
myrealitie: “keep a house and a woman on a steady and happy path”…”Because that makes women feel great. And a woman who feels great isn’t going anywhere…” And I’m sure there would be more references to such buried elsewhere in her comments. There it is. If the woman “feels great”. If the woman is on a “haaappy path”. She might stay. It’s all about how the woman is made to feel. And we all know how rock-solid emotions are, especially a woman’s…not! What fool is going to found a life-long commitment on the basis of a woman’s ephemeral, whimsical, fleeting,… Read more »
@Snowy, re: “What fool is going to found a life-long commitment on the basis of a woman’s ephemeral, whimsical, fleeting, temporal, vaporous feelings/emotions?”
Ha ha! Probably a vulnerable man, desiring to be intimate. Probably a man who needs comforting, some comforting some times, some small shred of decency from a woman. Probably a man who still somehow foolishly believes that a woman is capable of actual love, that some woman will at least pretend sometimes to appreciate his devoted service.
Certainly no strong man will ever think any such woman is worth *anything*, much less himself.
I’m going to start polishing my Fake Chinks.
The, honestly, rather stupid Handicap Principle theories suggest, handwavingingly in childish models, that the additional genetic strength needed to bear the burden of a vulnerability, i.e. the costs of a handicap, is Honestly Signaled by the increasingly *misleading* elaborations of the handicap.
If emotionalism were a handicap for men, and we know it is, these theories suggest that we would see men breaking down in tears, giant, elaborate, colorful tears, all the time, men carrying around the sparkly burden of their peacock tail of uncontrollable emotions.
I’ve commented enough here, not to mention elsewhere, enough to reveal a large number of obvious strengths and clear vulnerabilities. I say again, I’ve clearly revealed a number of emotional vulnerabilities. I’m sure you agree.
If such kinds of vulnerabilities be exploitable and not merely handicaps, then surely mine would be, if any are. So, to help you muster your exploitativeness, or rather to explore whether vulnerabilities be, eh, vulnerable to text-based assaults, then take a swing. I’m serious. Give it a shot.
jf12: “Ha ha! Probably a vulnerable man, desiring to be intimate. Probably a man who needs comforting, some comforting some times, some small shred of decency from a woman. Probably a man who still somehow foolishly believes that a woman is capable of actual love, that some woman will at least pretend sometimes to appreciate his devoted service.” Amazing how precisely you describe my Blue Pill (i.e. Pre-Red Pill) days. So…this thing that women say we men should ‘just get’ is that women just naturally want to submit to a man’s leadership? That where I lead, she will just naturally… Read more »
@Snowy, I couldn’t agree more. The very idea that women want to follow good leaders is laughable, despite the sinister motivation for promoting that lie (i.e. the lie that a good leader leads women where women want to go).
The very idea that women do not want to coddle the men they love is laughable, despite the sinister motivation for promoting that lie (i.e. the lie that women are just naturally bitchy even to men they love and just cain’t help it). The stench of the FI permeates *everything* about women.
So, what are some good ideas for Fake Chinks? I could spin Fake Puppy Tales all day, I guess, but a storyis not really a chink.
re: rape-by-fraud laws.
The evolution of YMY means that consent can be retroactively withdrawn, formalizing regret rape into law. This effectually pedestalizes women’s whims at the expense of men, thereby making men almost completely vulnerable to women. Each man is now a giant walking chink.
I’ve come to believe that when it comes to gaining any form of respect or connection from a woman. A man has to let go of all of his ability to want to care, emote or get close to any of them. Its for this reason that I think a man can never gain complete happiness in his relationships with the opposite sex. Because sex on it’s own isn’t enough or fulfilling. It’s a lose/lose situation. Get loads of sex and still be unhappy, or be in a relationship and hold back on intimacy and become emotionally cold. Makes me… Read more »