Rational Male – Q&A

RM_Q&A

SoSuave and Rational Male reader compleks had a few questions about what he read in The Rational Male book. Since I’ve been doing these weekend questions lately I thought these might make for some interesting discussions. Hopefully they wont distract you from family time this holiday weekend, but maybe they make for some interesting dinner table talk.

Just a side note here, I’m deliberately leaving my own answers less detailed than I normally would so as to inspire your owndiscussions:

If The Rational Male was recommended to me as a book about game, I probably wouldn’t have read it. But my friend who put me onto it basically described it as a life altering piece that would forever change the way I viewed the world of inter-gender relations.

Big sell!

So I read it.

Being freshly unplugged I’m still just awakening from that groggy comatose/confused state. However I feel as though I have a slight head start on at least some of the material. Just by sheer chance, rather than any real research into the subject.

I’ve only ever been in one LTR (2years), and it was with the girl I first hooked up with (she let me sleep with her, better hang onto this one!). Anyway, I ended that (5-6years ago) and have been single ever since, with no desire of entering another relationship.

I started ‘spinning plates’ about a year ago, just through a natural realization that any moral/ethical objection was actually completely unfounded. Not just my own (programmed) objections, but objections from the feminine perspective, which I guess are one in the same. I thought I must have been ‘wired’ differently because I had no desire of settling back into a LTR. I actually argued my case on multiple occasions to avoid it happening.

This book was eye opening and definitely shed some light on issues I never would have even thought to question.

If you care to keep reading I’m just going to spew some thoughts/questions having just finished the book. Keep in mind this is from a very rudimentary understanding of the text.

QUESTIONS

1) Does ONEitis best Hypergamy?
We all know a girl (either personally or anecdotally) who is in a committed relationship with some deadbeat. Everyone knows she can do better, but you can’t possibly convince her to leave him. What factors are at play here? Does SHE suffer from ONEitis to the point that her hypergamous tendencies have been shut off?

Or could it be a case of low self esteem and lack of self worth, so much so that she believes he is the best she can do? Or could he actually just be an Alpha male (albeit a bad example of one)? I’m sure there’s a grey area or middle ground here with many factors potentially at play depending on the specific scenarios. But it’s a pretty common scenario and I’d like to hear what you guys think.

I get this one now and then – “What about this one great looking girl I know who’s stuck on this complete douchebag, deadbeat, scumbag, suckup, :insert invective here:?” While I’m not sold on the idea that women ever get ONEitis for a guy, I am thoroughly convinced that women being 1-2 SMV points below a particular man they’re involved with develop a strong attachment for him.

For women, oftentimes that attachment gets paired with the soul-mate myth. I’d separate that “spiritualism” from the ONEitis a man gets for a woman, but it’s still rooted in the same dynamic – the subconscious realization that this person is the ‘best they can do’ in the SMP.

The reason I’d make the separation between how men experience ONEitis and women is due to the concepts either have when it comes to love. Women’s concept of love is rooted in opportunism as a result of their innate drive towards hypergamous optimization. All this ‘deadbeat’ needs do is be perceptually 1-2 levels above her own perceived SMV and the Alpha prerequisite for Hypergamy is met.

Most guys looking from the outside of that perception in realize the guy’s a fuck up (even Alpha Buddah, Corey Worthington is an example), and we can’t understand why that subjectively hot woman can’t use reason and rationality to see that he is, but then, this is due to our own self-perceptions and our mistaken belief that women’s reason can be appealed to.

2) Genuine Inter-Gender friendships?
Okay, so i don’t have the book with me. But I remember reading a sub-section on inter-gender relationships. It didn’t sit well with me when I read it, but it’s probably something I will have to re-read. I have a lot of female friends. Friendships that go back 15 years. Some of these are very close friends in a completely non-sexual way.

I’m closer with some of these girls than I am with many of my male friends.
Initially these friendships may have blossomed based on the fact that I was a shy kid and didn’t have any ‘intimate’ relationships with women till I was 19. But they are now concreted as some of my most valued friendships.

What is your take on Rollos opinion of inter-gender friendships (as outlined in the rational male)?

My take in the book, and still is, is that men and women cannot be friends in the same way and to the same degree of intimacy that same sex friendships develop.

Men and women cannot be friends in the way or to the degree that most people perceive same sex friendship to be. Now the natural response to this is “I have lots of female friends” or “what are you trying to say, I can’t have female friends, they all haffta be enemies?” Which of course is the standard binary (black or white, all or nothing) retort and the trained AFC thinks anyone suggesting that men and women’s relations as friends could be anything less than equitable and fulfilling is just a neanderthal chauvinist thinking. However, they are incorrect – not because you wouldn’t want to actually be a woman’s friend. There are fundamental differences in the ways men and women view friendship within the framework of their own sex and the ways this transfers to the concept of intergender-friendship.

Quite simply there are limitations on the degree to which a friendship can develop between men and women. The easy illustration of this is that at some point your female “friend” will become intimately involved with another male; at which point the quality of what you perceived as a legitimate friendship will decay. It must decay for her intimate relationship to mature. For instance, I’ve been married for 18 years now; were I to entertain a deep friendship with another female (particularly an attractive female) other than my wife, my interest in this woman automatically becomes suspect of infidelity – and of course the same holds true for women with man-friends. This dynamic simply doesn’t exist for same sex friendships because the sexual aspect is inconsequential.

I should add here that the presumption of an equatable degree, character or quality of intergender friendship (platonic) being the same as a same-sex friendship is a product of the same “we’re-all-the-same-with-different-plumbing” naive equalism that deliberately ignores complementary differences between the sexes.

This presumption is actually a vetting mechanism for women’s control of sexual selection and Hypergamy. The social convention that promotes the idea of equitable concepts of friendship only serves women’s imperative of being able to hold the attentions of multiple male orbiters until such a time that she can optimize both sides of her sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks). The longer you’re rapt by the idea of an equal intergender friendship, the longer she has to consolidate on whatever side of hypergamy she’s prioritizing at the phase of life she’s in. In other words, the longer you’re in the bullpen, the longer you’ll be a Plan B prospect.

3) Religion vs Evolution vs Habit?
This is a bit abstract. But in terms of a decayed loveless marriage, what would you say are the factors holding these marriages together? Neither party is happy, but they are also unwilling to do anything about it.

One clings to a religious frame as reason to not leave/divorce, as the children are all old enough now that “staying together for the childrens sake” no longer applies.

The other seems completely indifferent and stuck in the routine. Both are mid 50’s and have been married for 30 years and probably just scarred shitless of being alone. But what would you make of this from an ‘unplugged’ point of view. (might be a stretch from the realm of this book, but just curious).

What you’re describing is akin to the phenomenon of Grey Divorce. In the time line from my Preventative Medicine series, I briefly outline what’s known as the 20 year itch – the period of life, usually after 50 around the time a long-married couple becomes ’empty nesters’ and the binding responsibilities of raising children is at, or almost at an end.

It’s around this phase that a reassessment of one’s partner takes place and the prospects of living out the rest of a life with that person gets serious consideration. This is a phase that’s very telling of the overall prospects of marriage as an institution on whole and how either sex really considers their idealistic, loving union from very mater-of-fact practicality, when there is no longer a mutually cooperative goal (childrearing) as the centerpiece of that relationship.

Religion and/or a conviction that children are better raised by an involved two parent (male and female) family who are both mutually invested in the success of their kids is generally a bond that both parties mutually agree to as the cornerstone of their marriage.

Once that goal has been met (or termed out) then that relationship must be reestablished and based on a genuine interest and desire for the other person. For a man this may involve his realizing an understanding of tenets of the Game that he’s, until then, unwittingly been a party to. For women this may be a longing for renewed interest from extra-marital (but not necessarily infidelity) attentions and desire from other men.

It’s kind of telling how men’s idealistic concept of love endures beyond his late-life Epiphany stage. In spite of having experienced the consequences and all-downside risks men face in their prior marriages, it’s still overwhelmingly men who want to remarry and take another shot at that idealism.

It is women, in either their veiled pragmatism or their aging, unrealizable opportunistic concept of love who are more or less indifferent to the prospects of remarriage.

“Most currently divorced or widowed men are open to the idea of remarriage, but women in the same circumstances are less likely to be,” says the report, which draws on figures from a survey it conducted in May and June. Almost two thirds of men either want to remarry or would at least consider it, while fewer than a half of women would.

These stats alone are more than enough to verify my assertions of how either sex hold different concepts of love.

Men still dream of an idealistic love, and women have find precious little use for men beyond the practical when presented with the prospect of having to optimize Hypergamy at an age they are no longer capable of intersexual competition.

111 comments

  1. Inspired by your cartoon. “I Love You Always Forever”

    To their credit, women are capable of imagining Twu Wuv feelings quite accurately, but possibly those feelings are mostly left over from when they were prepubescent girls.

  2. Q1. Does (a woman’s) ONEitis best (her) Hypergamy?
    A1. No. Women do not latch into oneitis like men do. Women latch onto their infants instead. As Rollo said, a woman might have starz in her eyez for you if you’re alpha enough to her, but that is exactly hypergamy at play.

    My sister is a doctor, in her 60s now, and is on her sixth husband. She’s always been drawn to good-looking alcoholic rednecks, and each one has turned into a lazy bum getting increasingly pudgy and violent towards her until she kicks him out and gets another one.

    Q2. Genuine Inter-Gender friendships?
    A2. I have so many women friends and colleagues that women readers would like to pretend to think I’m exaggerating. But none are companions or even buddies, much less deep friendships, for the reasons Roolo said.

    Q3. Religion vs Evolution vs Habit?
    A3. Habit. It used to be that women desperately needed a man in the house, so women in prior centuries were a little less difficult than nowaday.

  3. Most men die having “never gotten it.” Once u get it, u have the skills to chose the woman u feel is best for u, or just keeping spinning plates.

  4. Question 1-At some point that practicality will knock on the door. The rock star look becomes aren’t you a little old for that look without an actual record deal.

    Question 2-Could men and women be friends? I’ve thought yes, but maybe the key is saying to the same degree as men/men. Most of the time that practical thing comes in again. Women like to base male friends or acquaintances if you like on what they can do for them. The guy with the pick up truck. Others who aren’t seem to not be able to keep themselves out of getting involved in whether you have a girlfriend or not.

  5. Regarding your answer to #3, I’d also add that men want to make—and keep—vows or oaths. He may consider (or commit) sexual or intimate infidelity but, as men are the gatekeepers of commitment, he remains committed to his commitment. Men can and do embrace the suck; women, not so much.

  6. Can men and women be “friends”? I have some insights. I have a number of female “friends”. Mostly they are ex gfs who I still have contact with and DON’T want to bang.

    I have another “Friend” who i recently banged because I had gamed her, was aloof and that just got her more turned on. We’re back to being “friends” but the sexual tension is there.

    Finally a third “friend”–girl who has a fiance and orbiters, likes being around guys. Normally I wouldn’t be around such a girl, but she is SMOKING hot and very cool to be with. So my sole motivation in the absence of fucking her is to use her as a pivot to create jealousy plot lines with other girls. It’s worked. Girls see me with her, she’s hanging off every word and they immediately THINK we’re banging—how could we not be?

    So yes, men and women can be friends as long as the MAN understands why he’s involved in the interaction.

    There is no “hope” on my part. I either want to be “friends” or I’m banging them…not middle ground. If i have banged them, I don’t mind being “Friends”.

    But sex has to be part of the equation.

    The third category is girls I would NEVER bang…i still game them because they could be helpful.

  7. I was 8 years old when I had a crush on a girl in my class and my mom was teasing me about it in the presence of my uncle, he looked at me and said :
    Never fall in love with a woman, she loves you today and she would love someone else tomorrow.

    I’m 46 now and I’m so glad I followed his advice.

    Don’t get me wrong though, I still LOVE women but, NEVER trust them or give them ANY secrets.

    Ps Rollo said, never tell how many women you slept with.

    Thank you Rollo for the redemption.

  8. They have oneitis but it’s a different feeling.

    Men’s oneitis is more possessive and intense. Kind of like food to humans when they are starving. You get possessive over it cause you want it.

    Girls oneitis is more childish. They feel empty without the attention from a guy who’s been feeding it to her. It’s personal too. If someone else gives her attention she is still bummed about not getting it from ‘the break up guy’. I imagine the feeling is like this: imagine your on the highschool basketball team and you are a bench player. The superstar leading scorer gets all the love all the attention from everyone in school. “Good game you guys had last night etc” the feeling that you the bench player will have is a lack of attention and jealousy. This is what girls feel when they separate from a guy.

    Also, a girls oneitis happens with the first break up she ever has.

    One thing I can’t understand is how my parents are in their 60s now and still married well.

    Like wtf? My dad isn’t all that either. We’re an upper middle class family but my mom is the perfect wife. I don’t get it. Don’t know where to find someone like that. She cooks dinner every night and puts up with so much shit and has a good paying job.

  9. I truly appreciate the vigor this site now has for churning out fresh material and I keep finding gems in the past posts. Might not mean much from a simple commenter, but this is one of the top five sites in all of the sphere.

  10. “So yes, men and women can be friends as long as the MAN understands why he’s involved in the interaction”.

    Still playing their game. Until men wake the fuck up and stop this nonsense things will get worse for everyone. There’s a reason girls and boys used to be separated unless they were specifically courting to marry or were married. There was no such thing as coed and wasn’t even considered. The old timers would just laugh at you if you suggested men and women could just be friends and hang out together and everything would be alright. They knew that is not supportive of male interests.

  11. You know you could update the copyright to 2014 at the bottom of the page. (Again i see myself as the male in this regard)

  12. Reading this post prompted a retrieval from the fine archives of the Chateau:

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/five-minutes-of-alpha-fifty-years-of-pining/

    Here we find an older woman who, after going through a Gray Divorce (her ex-husband then entering a monastery….how fitting) decides to seek out the man she fell for and gave her virginity to…fifty years after the fact. This example might be a statistical outlier in terms of execution, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the profound majority of women out there are in fact alpha widows who constantly fantasize about the one man who knew, consciously or not, how to rock her world.

    Perhaps this shouldn’t be called “ONEits” for women…but it can certainly be rationalized at “THE missed opportunity”

  13. “Kind of like food to humans when they are starving.”

    Never heard it put so succinctly before, men starve and gorge themselves while women rarely get hungry and nibble often.

    Who cares less wins but how is it possible for someone starving to pretend they’re not hungry.

    Just a small question, I have several women literally throwing themselves at me and find myself being disgusted by their behaviour but as soon as a woman shows me inattention I become obsessed. Why?

  14. @johny

    The ones throwing themselves at you are either too low an SMV to be attractive to you or just about to hit the wall and desperate. Both are quite off-putting.

    If a woman’s inattentive, she’s probably someone you perceived as higher value and accidentally tipped your hand, showing desperation in the process. That or she was never attentive to begin with and you just noticed it after developing an interest in her.

    As a guy I’ve never found that be ignored by a woman creates my interest in her. It’s always been the other way ’round, due to my interest being too beta. Work on your game more is probably the solution I’ve found.

  15. Rollo, I got a question.

    I read this comment. And the guy talked about “The Hierarchy of Abuse from Women”. He said that at first, everything is all chipper, she has genuine desire for you, then she starts to lose it and heads down this path, escalating through the various phases:

    1) She begins to pick at you over your messiness, your lack of neatness, the lack of chores around the house.

    2) Then she starts to criticize you when she is talking with her friends behind your back.

    3) Then she criticizes you to your face in front of people

    4) Then she starts thinking of other men and being attracted to them

    5) Then she goes with other men

    6) Then she plots with her new lover to murder you.

    So here is my question. If she criticizes you for leaving towels on the floor…

    is it OK to just shoot her and plead self defense?

  16. With regards to women getting one-itis… I don’t believe that they get the exact same type of one-itis as men do. I think there are different motivators for a woman to keep a man around, sometimes combined together. I firmly believe that women have a subconscious process that they use to measure valuable men. It works kind of like a high score list in a video game. The men who make the biggest subconscious “impression” stay at the top of the list, while men who just pass in and out of the woman’s life remain at the bottom and regularly get bumped off by new guys. The less “players” she has in her life, the better chance of a guy making a significant impression upon her. If the guy she’s currently with is high up on that list, she’s not going to let him go too easily.

    Going hand in hand with this is his ability to give her emotional fluctuation. I believe that women rely on emotional fluctuation to remain interested in a relationship. When he’s either trying to keep her happy all the time or he’s making her constantly miserable, the woman becomes bored. If the guy is an alpha male with no job, she’s going to be attracted to his personality, but pissed off at him for being a lazy bum. In this case, you’ve got an ideal behavioral mixture to keep her highly attracted to him.

    All of this can be verified when you bring a woman’s attention to the first significant lover she ever had. Chances are, she can talk for hours about him. A woman will never completely ‘get over’ an early significant lover. Sometimes she will act upon her desires to re-connect with him. That’s why women can easily go back to one of their ex-bfs repeatedly, even if many years have passed by with no contact.

    Analyzing this stuff is never as ‘cut-and-dry’ as it is with men. When men are highly attracted, it’s likely because she’s physically appealing and has a cool personality. Very easily explainable. When it comes to a woman’s attraction, we have to write paragraphs, chapters, and books on the subject to properly make sense of it.

  17. @Sun Wukong re: “As a guy I’ve never found that be ignored by a woman creates my interest in her. It’s always been the other way ’round, due to my interest being too beta.”

    Me too. I consider a woman’s interest, willingness, enthusiasm, etc to be a key part of her attractiveness. I’m turned off by disinterest, boredom, etc. In fact, I believe that women in LTR, past the honeymoon period, often exhibit these unattractive personalities specifically to turn off their male partner so he won’t beg them for sex so much.

    The positive feedback loop from a woman’s interest is what constitutes attraction, to me. Otherwise she is merely good-looking, which scarcely narrows it down, to me.

  18. re: “a cool personality”

    I would like to read a book by Gillian Flynn featuring the POV of The Cool Girl. She has said explicitly, not merely intimated, that she knows, the same as ALL women know, exactly what personality men like. But she thinks all such women are merely faking it in order to be men-pleasers. As if that’s such a bad thing.

  19. BTW I firmly believe that women’s desperate interest in romance fiction is due to the fact that they cannot, commonly, experience Twu Luv themselves in their own lives. It’s very easy for a man to fall in love with a woman who treats him right, which things the womenz desire to look into.

  20. Only situation where men and women can be friends is if the woman is a good 20+ years older and no sliver of attraction exists. Which would be true in 99.8% of cases – very few men are attracted to women that much older. Even then, such a friendship wouldn’t be the same as a same sex friendship. When it comes to men and women closer in age, forget it. If the woman is reasonably attractive, he wants to fuck her. Plain and simple.

  21. 3) Religion vs Evolution vs Habit? This is a bit abstract. But in terms of a decayed loveless marriage, what would you say are the factors holding these marriages together? Neither party is happy, but they are also unwilling to do anything about it.

    You could make this question Religion vs Evolution vs Habit vs Financial? I’m constantly amazed how many men have stay-at-home wives and still cook and clean when they get home. It’s pathetic. The fat wife sitting by the pool drinking Corona with the next door neighbor-whale all day, and the man gets home and gets busy cooking dinner. A significant portion of these men have told me they cannot afford to get divorced. After sticking it out for the kids this is the biggest reason I hear.

    Who wants to work for thirty years and end up in an 800 square foot apartment with no money, no 401(k), and no assets?

  22. Will sez:

    “One thing I can’t understand is how my parents are in their 60s now and still married well.

    Like wtf? My dad isn’t all that either. We’re an upper middle class family but my mom is the perfect wife. I don’t get it. Don’t know where to find someone like that. She cooks dinner every night and puts up with so much shit and has a good paying job.”

    Will it’s quite apparent you aren’t learning anything by being here. You need to:

    1) Get your Mom down off that damn pedestal.

    2) Understand that (if she allegedly “puts up with so much shit”) why she stays with your Dad.

    3) Talk to your Dad about his point of view on things.

    You are deeply immersed in FI thinking son.

  23. jf12 – “But she thinks all such women are merely faking it in order to be men-pleasers. As if that’s such a bad thing.”

    It is a bad thing. It’s an admission that women have nothing to offer but lies and illusions because if they stopped “faking it” men would realize that Dr. Dre was right and that bitches ain’t shit.

  24. My answers for this weeks questions:

    1. Men have oneitis, women become Alpha widows. Apples and oranges yet both are bad for men.

    2. Yes friendships with women are possible, but they of a completely different nature than friendships between men. Failure on the part of either the man or the woman to keep that in mind will cause problems.

    3. Religion as belief in something greater than ourselves is an evolved phychological characteristic that mitigates the worst excesses of our basic nature. Habituation serves a similar purpose in the context of the question. We talk about how in the SMP it’s an every man for himself free for all. It isn’t. If it were the body count and number of forcible rapes would be much much higher. The current social order that holds male violence in check is an expression of the same evolved behaviors that give us religion, and allow us to be resigned to habit and routine.

  25. Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.

    There are fundamental differences in the ways men and women view friendship within the framework of their own sex and the ways this transfers to the concept of intergender-friendship.

    I get called to the carpet for this as much as my assertions on the gender concepts of love, but both dynamics are intertwined.

    Women talk, men do:
    https://therationalmale.com/2014/03/03/women-talk-men-do/

    Men Like Women

    When a man attempts to communicate like a woman (context-primary), women associate him with the feminine (i.e. he talks like a woman). This subconsciously indicates to her that a guy is Beta and making concessions of his maleness to better identify with the feminine. When you read about angry women feeling duped by the Nice Guy, who was only ‘playing nice’ in order to earn her intimacies, that deception is rooted in a guy relating to women as a woman would.

    You cannot help but make concessions from a male perspective in order to entertain what you hope is an honest exchange and an friendship with a woman. Men will make concessions and compromises for a woman they think they’re friends with that they would come to blows for were the friend another man.

    The problem with platonic intergender friendship isn’t your earnest interest in it, but rather the only frame of reference a woman has for friends is her same-sex friendships which she applies to men who want to “be friends”.

    Men cannot help but accede frame in a male-female “friendship”, thus any idea of friendship is always going to proceed from a feminine-primary definition of it.

  26. The effects of culture can be strong on women. Just as our culture trains men to be betas other cultures train women to be betas. Consider for a moment the country paraguay at one time the seat of power of spain in south america. At one point they managed to go to war at the same time with argentina uruguay and brazil. The war went so badly for them they lost 85 percent of the men. And you can imagine the men that were left were mostly the old and the young. Now imagine what that would do to a culture to have that much of a skewed ratio of men to women. Obviously women would have to learn some kind of advanced woman-game and would have to tolerate infidelity. Men would become natural alphas because of surplus. Men would only sleep with the hottest women because they had the choice. Now the second question is would this behaviour persist a long time even when the ratio equalized? I believe yes cultue always has a certain inertia. Its no coinsidence that the sexiest women (both in beauty and attitude) come from places that have had a few big or a long time constant kill offs of men(ie paraguay,russia,colombia). And the places with the ugliest worst looking bad attitude women come from safe successful countries(england us spain-20% of spanish me marry women from another country). I believe much of the war of the sexes is decided by M/F ratio and economic prosperity.

  27. Why would you want want to be just friends with a chick? She going to bail you out in a brawl? Invade a small nation to break you out of jail? Help you gut a deer? Spot you when you squat? Fix your bike? Land a marlin?

  28. “… at an age they are no longer capable of intersexual competition”

    this assumes rational thought. Robin Korth thought it was possible to date a slightly younger man (she also thinks it’s possible to feel “like a Barbie Doll on acid”). Madonna still posts topless pictures. A woman I know in her early 50s dumped the beta buxs (big house, kids all grown), did the alpha hunt (posting bikini shots from her 40s), ended up with reverse beta buxs (partly employed guy wants to move in to her new small place). A reason why the 50+ divorced women don’t want to remarry might be they want to be free just in case alpha comes knocking.

  29. for 10 more questions (not from me):

    and cutting and pasting for “badass” Rollo:

    So basically,

    My wife cheated on me and I am in the process of divorce. To be honest, I think something dramatic and drastic needs to happen in a man’s life before he is ready for something so powerful as TRP. Like the saying goes, “when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” I suspect that, had I seen this forum half a year ago I would dismiss it as delusional or misogynist. My beta, nice guy, pushover highly feminized self could never accept such harsh truths.

    So basically, after that post above, I bought the Rational Male book, read it cover to cover in three days and am hungry for even more material. (Rollo, if you ever read this, you are a badass, and thank you for publishing it in a physical form, as someone like me would never read your blog posts in their intended order or in the same ferocity as I read your book.)

    Its crazy how true the entire book rang to me, and I immediately started to analyze past relationships, other people’s relationships, my own parents relationships (my dad was definitely a Beta, unfortunately), with a lot of cringe inducing moments of my own beta behaviors both past and present, and alpha behaviors of folks I used to associate with.

    I bought The Way of Men, and Models and will probably get 48 Rules of Power. But what else can you recommend? Printed physical copies will be best, as for some kind of subconscious reason, printed material has more value and merit to me (I know its bullshit, but that’s how I feel).

    So any TRP books in the same quality and scope of The Rational Male? I read most of the sidebar, and subscribed to some of the blogs. Looking for quality books.

    Aside of that, I have a lot of small questions that I would like getting your TRP opinion about. Thank you in advance for your time and input.

    1. Clothing and Dressing well. How much does it matter? Even Rollo mentions that your SMV is affected by the way you dress. I am 29 years old, but never grew to like clothing shopping or know how to build a proper wardrobe. I mean, some guys here are fine with a plain jeans and a T-Shirt but what about going out? Looking at Reddit’s own, Male Fashion Advice, I was a bit repulsed as a lot of the clothing there is very feminine or metro sexual/ hipster. I never had positive masculine role models in my life so don’t know what is a decent man clothing that shows class and authority. Any words on that? Is it important or is your physical appearance, earning power and game tramps any clothing selections?

    2. So basically, the main difference between PUA and TRP is that PUA focuses on the short term getting laid asap vs TRP focused on not needing to get laid to get validated and is more of a long term road map for a life for man in the western world? Is that right? Is PUA goes against TRP concepts or they are different? I don’t have much game, but will steadily increase my TRP readings and overall SMV. I still feel I need a foundation of how to deal with woman from the start, and how to establish a solid unbreakable frame, how to detect the numerous shit tests they throw at me and etc. If you HAD to recommend and vouch for three PUA books for an inexperienced TRP individual right now, what would they be? I will wait for my divorce to be finalized and then get out a bunch and try to find some plates, but being both out of the game for so long, and coming to it with still plenty of deeply ingrained Beta Feminist behaviors and patters deeply embedded in me, I feel I need a very quality crash course.

    3. What is your opinion on online dating? I am pretty certain I will try OKcupid as I had luck in the past plus am in a major city. But isn’t online dating, by default, will attract very low SMV and problematic women? I mean, if TRP advocates that young attractive women are the rulers and deciders of the game, you most likely would not find them looking for men via online dating sites. Hot, young chicks are always in high demand, and wont resort to that. What do you think? I mean, sure, you can get some practice lays of say, SMV 5-7 in OKC, but seldom 7+?

    4. If you want to have children, what would be the best TRP route in your opinion? Have a ton of random sex and short term relationships until I’m 36-40 and than find an early twenties prudent woman? By then I can hopefully master my frame and be in a much better position in terms of SMV and TRP knowledge and game.

    5. Any in depth, plate spinning guides? I mean, I get the overall concept. But once again, for a life long Feminist, I get the Strategy, but sorely need the Tactics. So any detailed accounts of what to do once you have a plate? Dull and silly stuff like texts, phone conversations, shit tests, frame holding and etc? Not to repeat question number 2, as I guess PUA is all about getting the first lay, vs plate spinning could be a year long affair requiring a different set of tools and behaviors. That is really where TRP Game vs PUA Game is going to make a difference.

    6. Sex. I would really like to hear your opinion about this one. So if its mostly about you, sex should go to quick escalation, PIV, climax in 5 minutes. Because if you don’t give a shit, and you just want to cum, real quick like, you just take what you want. Isn’t all the really involved sex with other activities, making out, being tender and gentle and exploratory, giving oral. is putting her on the pedestal is increasing your neediness and reducing your importance? I mean, lets be honest here, guys can come in 4 minutes and be happy about it, where some woman it could take them 20 minutes at least if she can EVEN come from regular PIV sex. I really like going down on women, Is that alpha/TRP challenging? It turns me on. Also, Assuming its all about you, and you should be caveman/assertive/rough in bed, wouldn’t she most likely wouldn’t have sufficient time to get aroused and wet? Also, I am pretty certain that about half of the woman population, can’t even climax from PIV (from http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/200903/the-most-important-sexual-statistic which is granted, a bullshit, feminist source. It says: “Only 25 percent of women are consistently orgasmic during vaginal intercourse.” Lets say its bullshit, and double that figure. That’s still 50% woman that don’t come in vanilla PIV sex) , so should you do the extra effort and get her off? Although I would think that a true alpha wouldn’t give two shits about it? So, TLDR summary of this one is: TRP/Alpha sex – all about you, she doesn’t come because you don’t care, fast PIV vs longer sex with oral on her, making sure she comes but less caveman/Alpha?

    7. How to be with other Men. I think that slowly as you transform your relationships to women you date and than to all women you interact with, you will come to a crossroad. Do you act all “Selfish”, assertive, A personality, final decider, leading, Alpha behavior with your fellow men? If so, does it means you never confide or show emotions be vulnerable with them? If so, it means you cannot talk about any fears or challenges or problems in your life with anybody? I mean, it would be hard to be all Alpha TRP with woman without that slowly flowing to how you relate to other man. What is your experience? If you slowly turned from Beta to Alpha, how did it affect your friendships with your guy friends?

    8. Also about sex and plate spinning. If you are just getting out of a toxic long year relationship. Would you go out there and have sex with SMV 4-6’s? Just for practice sake, and honing your game skills? I guess, my only problem is that if I’m not really attracted to a girl, the sex is boring and unfulfilling and I feel its a lot of monetary and emotional investment in what you can achieve with a quick fap at home. Should I only peruse 7-10’s? Is having horde of lays with a bunch of 5’s just to boost your ego is a bad idea?

    9. Money on woman. So, being financially well is a major SMP value signifier. But spending money on women reduces your appeal and status in her eyes? It seems a bit problematic and contradictory to me. So imagine this, you have a sweet car, dress nice, pick up a girl and then refuse to pay for her drinks and meal because you are afraid it going to show her that you are more interested and invested in being with her than her? How would you approach it? What is TRP way of spending money on women? I love treating a good looking woman to a drink or some grub, but perhaps that’s my old beta speaking? Only pay after you have sex or what?

    10. Finally, I am seeing a male therapist every two weeks. Is that a good idea? I am slowly talking more about masculinity with him, and even got him the No More Mr Nice Guy book, so he can browse through it and let me know what he thinks. He is agreeing, behind closed doors, that there is some merit in thinking that feminism went to far and is damaging both women and men. You guys are going to love this; He told me, that a bunch of high level women executives and career orientated type see him. Their most common story? They are tired of being dominant both in the business world AND in their relationship. They want somebody to lead them in their home life and be a Man (although would probably only admit it to their counselor, not their friends, or dear god to their spouse). What is your opinion about counseling overall? I am going to keep him around until the divorce is done, but not sure about afterwards? Is life long counseling could have a place in a TRP Man? To be honest, he is a bit soft, and beta himself.

    Thank you so much for reading, if this should be more at askTRP I apologize, that other sub is a bit anemic and I wanted to get the maximum wisdom and guidance from longtime TRP folks here.

    Have a great weekend!

  30. @Rollo
    “Men cannot help but accede frame in a male-female “friendship”, thus any idea of friendship is always going to proceed from a feminine-primary definition of it.”

    I’m of two mind about this. On the one hand, you have a point and my past days as a beta LJBF orbiter would absolutely back you up.

    On the other hand, I think part of why a woman wants to be “friends” with a higher value man that flips the script (this is the case with one of the few chicks that I’m friends with these days) is because of his possibly more alpha frame control.

    Would it be more accurate to say that the lower SMV member of the friendship almost always submits to the higher SMV’s frame regardless of sex, but the lower SMV is more often than not the male since we’re more often trained to be beta, still do the approaches, and get LJBF’d in to orbiter status?

  31. “Most men die having “never gotten it.” Once u get it, u have the skills to chose the woman u feel is best for u, or just keeping spinning plates.”
    Brilliant!

  32. To answer the questions in Rollo’s post (is everybody in a turkey induced coma?)

    1) Does ONEitis best Hypergamy?

    Let’s rephrase this as:

    Does strong emotional attachment best Hypergamy?

    The answer is no, but the threshold level is increased. Say your woman is a 5, you a 7. Along comes an 8. Now she can have a temporary +1 but she loses a lot of 7, and since she is getting older, that 7 might not be available any longer. Still if a 10 decides to hit on the 5, it’s hamster and get banged. The good news is if you keep your woman away from drunk 10s, your 5 is not going to be seriously hit on by 10s (except for the 10s who are not fucking your woman because of her, but are fucking your woman to fuck you up)

    2) Genuine Inter-Gender friendships?

    rofl

    if you have this friendship, ask what is the agenda? Are you the backup husband/boy friend? (see http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/half-of-all-married-women-backup-plan). Are you doing errands for her? Are you an unpaid gigolo escorting her to events, without sexual payment?

    Can you have an authentic conversation with her? “I would like to fuck that cunt” or is everything turned down into femtalk ™ “she looks nice”

    3) Religion vs Evolution vs Habit?

    “decayed loveless marriage, what would you say are the factors holding these marriages together? ”

    many of these marriages are a facade. one or both spouses are having romance outside the marriage. once you find a decent roommate to co-habitat, why give that up? It’s not religion, evolution, or habit, it’s the path of least resistance, it’s the easy way in.

  33. @SunWukong re: “On the one hand, you have a point and my past days as a beta LJBF orbiter would absolutely back you up.”

    Yes. Women find it easy to just be friends with a man to whom they have zero (or negative) sexual attraction. In my case, I call it being treated as one of the girls; my women friends never bother trying to raise themselves to be “one of the boys”.

  34. re: man-pleasing.

    I’ll try to say it as straight as I can. If a woman, e.g. your woman, is refusing to be man-pleasing towards you then she is not doing so ignorantly. She wants you to be aware that she does not care if you are pleased, almost always specifically to turn you off from her. Therefore her man un-pleasing can be said to be “fake”, i.e. deliberate, calculated, just as much as her man-pleasing.

  35. Hey I would like to get an opinion on this. I am recently finished The Rational Male. Read it without ever hearing about this website or Rollo Tomassi. I will say the man is astute in his analysis. But anyway what are your thoughts on this:
    In today’s dating scene woman seem to value humor in men more than anything else. There are three explanations I have for this. They are in order of most likely (in my opinion).
    1. Women want humor in men because men are not seen as much as providers as jesters for woman’s amusement.
    2. Humor is seen as a necessity for women to enjoy the company of a man long enough to get what they desire from the relationship.
    3. Humor is somehow a new form of protection, maybe social, that makes women feel more comfortable
    I’d like to get opinions on this.
    I asked one guy and pretty much got labeled “sexist”. Oh well.

  36. As with all things women, her version of one-itis is purely a cynical and logical construct. If she meets a guy with sufficient high SMV- a guy who she can show off to friends, a guy who fits all her many pre-requisites, then she develops a “need” for him based on the fear of him getting away and her not realizing her “life-plan”. It’s not so much that she truly loves in the sense that a man does, but it will seem that way to her and the casual observer.
    As to friendships with women, I tend to think of it as a close acquaintance as being more healthy. But you can have close-ish female friends, but you have to be in the position of knowing you can fuck them if you ever wanted to. I have about three friends like that.. we don’t talk often, but we are close and the truth is I know I could get them naked if I wanted, but they just don’t interest me that way. I make sure not to rub it in the face of whatever guy they happen to be seeing, and it works out.
    As to why you would? Well, women are quite generous when you arent attached to their procreative agendas. One such friend was a lifesaver when I got sick for a few weeks.. I got out of the hospital and she bought me home, cooked and cleaned, filled my scripts etc. And she was dating someone at the time. She’s a good wing girl too when I am in Miami, although I know my lack of interest in her puzzles her a bit- she is pretty after all. Me too, o be honest. I just don’t get wood thinking about her.

  37. humor; I think its how they gauge a mans cleverness esp in social situations. Its hard to get away with more overt AMOG behavior and women are not good at mechanics, math etc so they cannot judge that sort of intelligence. Also they don’t have a concept of a well ordered life so they cannot judge that sort of cleverness…… its like humor is their one way of judging social intelligence which they mistake for IQ etc all…

    I’m wasted on cough syrup and no sleep so if that doesn’t make sense I’ll try again later

  38. it’s like a flat tax

    marriage should be an actual contract

    whoever quits gets nothing/zero/nada people would think twice about entering into an actual no crap binding contract

    you leave, you get nothing, PERIOD

  39. JT; “woman seem to value humor in men more than anything else.”
    Hold your hand out, you naughty boy!
    Believing what women say they want, instead of watching what they do
    Given an unconstrained choice between Cheeky Charming Dancing Monkeyboy, and Grimly Grimmenstein, the Monosyllabic Long-Schlonged 2-metre Jock, who’s she going home (or to the restroom/back alley) with?

    [all invocation of the hallucination commonly referred to as the “Quality Woman” is hereby strictly revoked for the purposes of this argument]

  40. @JT. Girls do value humor on a date. Not so much on a hook up.

    @Desdinova. That was a good explanation without being long. I never thought subject itself needed long explanation. It was breaking through people’s denial of how women can be, coupled with lifting the veil off the supporting infrastructure that’s been built up that you get into chapters and books.

    @Mr. Minter. Good fences make good neighbors
    Separate bathrooms make good marriages

  41. @JT, the answer is: jesters. Comedians DO NOT get a lot of sexual attention btw, especially compared to other entertainers. On the other hand, those of us men who aren’t sexy to look at HAVE to rely on other, necessarily beta, signals such as jesting, intelligence, provisioning, etc.

    BTW the key to understanding women’s motivations is, as Tam said, completely avoiding “Believing what women say they want, instead of watching what they do”. Because women do not know what they want ever, and do not know what they are saying most of the time.

  42. To whom it may concern: please do not bother trying to derail this convo into fractious No True Humor talk. Thank you.

  43. So, how many times must I say this? How is it that ye still misunderstand? Isn’t it too obvious that if the man has to perform for the woman then he is beta?

  44. I will say this, from the vantage point of age. Women do greatly value humor, but as a service to the women, making the women laugh. Their laughter is usually the only reward, the only payment, for the humor. But a substantial percentage of women do not know how to reward men in any other way than sexually. I greatly misunderstood this phenomenon when younger, often wrongly attributing it to the women being abused earlier, about as often wrongly presuming the women were just teasing.

    The fun fact for the day: a LOT of women will offer sex; real, enthusiastic, albeit transactional; to a guy to whom they’re not especially attracted (yes, I’m serious) simply because those women (correctly) think they have nothing else to offer the man.

  45. re: Men want to re-marry

    My friend’s a good example of the opposite case. Knew his ex-wife for 25 years, married for 18, had two kids with her. She filed for divorce back in the early 2000’s, and since that ended, she’s tried multiple times to get back with him, but he’s left her out in the cold. Also has no desire to get married again to anyone, ever.

    She called him on the phone trying to explain why she got the divorce, and he just said “I don’t want to know, and I don’t care” and hung up on her, never answered a call from her again. She wrote him a letter another few years later asking him if he needed a “roommate.” He said he read through the letter, laughed and then threw it in the garbage.

    One of his life goals, he’s told me, is to outlive his ex-wife so he can piss on her grave. The divorce tore the family apart and also how aggressive she was, for no reason he could discern (she said “You’ll be penniless and living in your car” – that was her goal), was unforgivable to him. “You can’t just go back on doing something like that.” And IMO he’s right.

    He’s slept with hundreds of women in his life. Hundreds. And he told me that he’s only ever told 3 women that he loved them, including his ex-wife. Even the most natural alphas can still fall victim to unexpected emotions. Out of the hundreds of women he’s been with he managed to find 3 ‘special’ ones that meant more to him than all the others by leaps and bounds. He has plenty of stories of having tons of one night stands with beautiful women and he knows he’s had tons of fun. The only experiences that ended poorly for him were the ones with the 3 girls he had special feelings for, the only 3 girls he ever said “I love you” to in his life.

    I don’t know if these feelings can be avoided. He is best prepared for trouble who sees it coming from a distance: instead of trying to kill these feelings, it’s better to be aware that they’re going to come up, so you don’t get surprised when they do, and you don’t get fooled into playing the idiot.

    Those feelings that a girl is “special” will be the death of you. Even if she’s a good match and you love her body and she’s good at sex and your personalities click really well or you have an extensive history together or *whatever* it may be, none of that matters to Hypergamy.

    My friend was traumatized by that divorce and it almost ended with him shooting himself in the head. If it weren’t for his kids he probably would’ve done it. He said he had the gun to his head in the bathroom, then he started thinking about his kids. And other kids saying at school, “Oh, those are the kids whose dad killed himself.” And he couldn’t go through with it.

    I came along a little while after that and the bond we’ve formed through me being his apprentice has been nothing short of tremendous.

    Anyway, really what you’re feeling are your own emotions, which are completely detached from the reality of who she is — a female whose sexuality is hard-wired for Hypergamy. Period. Whatever good qualities you see in her doesn’t matter — if you forget that she can be gone at the drop of a hat, the wakeup call is going to be extremely unpleasant.

    Don’t be a dummy. I’ve spent most of my life being a dummy. It’s the last place you want to be. You know those Looney Tunes episodes where the guy’s head turns into a giant lollipop that says “Sucker” on it?

    Don’t be that guy. Sirens have been around forever. Someone wrote that mythology for a reason. Same with Samson and Delilah. The list of legends goes on and on.

  46. @JT

    “I asked one guy and pretty much got labeled ‘sexist'”

    asking a beta how things work is like asking a bus driver how to fly a jet fighter

    “woman seem to value humor in men more than anything else”

    they value emotional intelligence, such as seen in men who know when and how to use humor

    in particular men who can agree and amplify a shit test. who can tease her mercilessly, and then go “just kidding”. who can give her an endless amount of both positive and negative emotional drama. who is never boring.

  47. I’m not sold on the idea that women ever get ONEitis

    Neither am I. I do know that women expect a certain response to their attractiveness – especially the 9’s and 10’s. So when you do not go by their play-book you are a challenge and one that they feel they must get the expected response from. But other than that, I’ve never seen a woman with the case of ONEitis like I have seen in men.

    Now I interact with a lot of women after I do a gig and have more than a bit of fun with them, and every now and then I’ll get one (and they are usually the ones that men hit on ALL the time) who seems to want a certain response from me. As long as I don’t go by her play book, she will pretty much do what I want for as long as I want. So I suspect that is why you see the women that are catering to a-holes…I won’t say if I am an a-hole or not – as from my perspective I do what is best for me. And having a couple of 9’s giving me what I need on my schedule is worth being an a-hole… 🙂

    And come on – the reason that upsets you is because you don’t have any of those types of women, RIGHT? So learn from the a-holes… Women must love it, why else would they respond to it as they do? The reason is simple – a man that doesn’t respond the way SHE wants if ALWAYS interesting to a woman. It is that simple…

  48. So essentially older women don’t remarry because they lack the physical beauty which would allow them to “marry up.” If they can’t marry up most aren’t interested.

    So simple, so obvious and yet I never put that together before.

  49. I suppose I’ll have a crack at some answers to the original questions:

    1) A woman’s oneitis *is* her hypergamy talking to her. It will always trade up if it can. Always. In fact in almost all my experience and observation, a woman almost never leaves a man without somebody her hypergamy perceives to be currently higher smv waiting in the wings. If she’s pushed out against her will by a higher smv man, there’s a good chance he’ll become her oneitis, perceiving him higher than any man she settles for in the future. She’ll always be willing to leave any other man for him. It’s hypergamously motivated.

    2) One partner in an intergender friendship will almost always be lower value than the other. This is often the beta male, but it can be the female as I’ve found a few times in my life. It virtually always winds up as a situation of unrequited love for the lower smv individual. As such, I would say while a true friendship might be possible in the case of two dead equal smv people whose relationship needs are already met elsewhere, it’s a highly unlikely situation.

    3) Laziness and habit. In all likelihood the both people settled long ago and accepted a miserable marriage because they were supposed to. Laziness, habit, and the momentum of that decision is basically all that keeps them together.

  50. Crikey mate either you’ll go bonkers or you’re half asleep right round the clock. My hippy kid bro would say get some meditation in. (He’s been at it for 30-40 years. Tedious, but at least he’s sober and not an ax-murderer).

  51. re: “Don’t worry about getting in shape”

    I know this is tongue-in-cheek. And I can definitely attest to that — humor hasn’t gotten me into any girls’ pants. Joking around and being funny after arousal is already established is completely different from when arousal is not established. I’ve noticed girls backing off if I tried sexualizing some of the jokes I was making, or acting creeped out. Kind of pisses me off and takes the “funny” out of me. Maybe mad at myself for acting like a holly jolly Christmas elf with a dunce cap on only to realize that it’s years later and I haven’t gotten any pussy for it.

    Of course if a girl is already into you and wants your dick, and you jokingly smack her on the ass or grab her tits and go “honk honk” (I’ve done this a few times — hilarious), it’s completely different. That led into many a blowjob for me. And I could make all the dirty jokes I wanted to with another girl who I knew was into me. That kind of ‘humor’ is completely different, and is more a component of making sex more personal and fun, than a method of attempting to arouse sexual desire.

    Which simply does not work. I’m kind of a funny guy, which can be an issue for me if I’m not careful. I seem to do better when I keep my humor on the more mature side: sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek, kind of being a playful jerk. I’m consciously working on this more, as I’m realizing more how ‘regular’ humor, just being a joker, can be working against me.

    Oh, and NEVER self-deprecating. NEVER DO THAT. EVER. If you’re going to be funny, NEVER make fun of yourself or put yourself down. I’ve done that most of my life. No more. It’s degrading to yourself and it makes you look like a spineless loser to everyone, not just girls.

    EVER. Do you hear me? I’ve done that enough. Do not do it. Humor might not directly inspire arousal, but if you use that kind of humor it is almost guaranteed that you will KILL any arousal that could’ve been hiding under the surface for you, waiting to coax it out.

    —————–
    Moving on….
    —————–

    One more plus to getting in shape, on top of changing how you look physically, is raising your testosterone.

    Testosterone I/O is a book by Christopher Walker, who raised his levels from 11 to 1192 in 18 months without the use of Androgel or any other kind of HRT. He also had (and still has) a brain tumor that his doctor said was largely responsible for his low T levels. If he could achieve something like that with his condition, it speaks volumes for guys without that problem.

    As I’ve been working out more intensely (lower reps, heavier weight), while still allowing for plenty of rest and recovery and *especially* boosting the calories and nutrients in my diet, I’ve noticed my mood changing pretty significantly. Over the past 6 months I’ve noticed that I’ve been growing more hair on my chest and my beard has been coming in a bit thicker than normal.

    Cholesterol is the building block for hormones. I do occasionally take pregnenolone, and might get back into that, but that is a non-steroid “pre-hormone” that all the other steroid hormones are produced from and could probably help quite a bit. I believe it’s formed in the body from cholesterol and vitamin A.

    Eating plenty of eggs and having liver/liverwurst every now and then has helped me a lot. Beyond cholesterol, liver and eggs are also excellent sources of choline, a more recently discovered nutrient that plays a lot of vital roles in the body. And of course vitamin A – liver in particular being the highest food source of preformed vitamin A on the planet.

    Fat and carbohydrates are critical for endocrine system health, and the composition of them matters. Butter, coconut oil, and olive oil are the go-to oils. Avoid cooking with vegetable oils like the plague. Polyunsaturated fatty acids INTENSIFY and PROLONG the effects of estrogen, by nature of the fact that they’re highly unstable and readily break down in the body to form free radicals that create a large amount of stress in the system.

    Oysters also have a history of being an aphrodisiac. They also happen to be the most concentrated food source of zinc on the planet, which is an important mineral for testosterone production.

    If you’re having trouble developing Game like I have, or having confidence, I firmly believe that working out with the intention of packing on muscle (i.e. weightlifting), getting enough sleep, having a good, full, nourishing diet, and generally taking care of yourself is one of the best things you can do.

    I also firmly believe that “just getting it” has a lot to do with having high testosterone and low cortisol. Obviously that’s not the only solution, but hormones dictate many functions in our bodies, including behavior.

    Prioritizing taking care of yourself is ESSENTIAL for having high testosterone and low cortisol — you need to eat regularly, need to sleep regularly and sufficiently, you need to work out, you need time to kick back and enjoy things YOU like doing.

    So automatically you develop “inner game” by taking care of this part of yourself. You will be busy prepping meals or eating or working out or working on personal projects, relaxing and reading a book, going hiking, playing sports, or whatever else it is you like doing.

    That takes care of a lot of the problem right there. I’m not “jacked” yet, or anywhere near it. I’m getting in better shape but one goal of mine is to be truly muscular.

    I’ve seen girls “oohing” and “ahing” over jacked guys. Touching their arms and their abs and everything and going “Wow!”

    That is no mistake. Hypergamy at work. It might take a few years, but we can all be that guy to some extent. We might not be the best looking or have the greatest physique, but we can certainly improve what we have to work with. And any guy who is serious about improving his life and truly wants to have better sex, and more sex with better looking girls, will take his appearance seriously. Pay attention to what you wear, how you style you hair, keep your beard in check (whatever looks best on you), and BUILD MUSCLE.

    Just getting a new haircut, re-working my wardrobe and getting into a LITTLE better shape has been helping me already. People see you differently. Biology at work. Big, muscular men with an obviously developed musculature command more respect than guys who look like twigs or have beer bellies.

    If you are a twig or have a beer belly, working out will give you more confidence than you could dream of, especially as you start seeing your physique slowly change into something you actually feel proud of. This is what I’ve been experiencing.

    One tip: if you drink, choose liquor. The hops in beer are highly estrogenic, so much so that I’ve heard women who pick hops have to wear gloves, since handling them bare-handed is enough to disrupt their menstrual cycles. Scary. I’ve been noticing a reduction in belly fat (and I have quite a bit of it) since I cut the beer out and started drinking whiskey exclusively. And not a lot. At the most per day, a few shots. And I weigh about 200 lbs at 5’11”. Exceeding a moderate level of alcohol consumption will fuck with your hormones big time.

    But yeah. The assault on men is hardly only political and cultural. Nutritionally and environmentally speaking we are living in a highly estrogenic world, and taking steps in our lives to counteract that is, IMO, essential if we truly want to be as successful as we possibly can.

  52. ” The hops in beer are highly estrogenic” Despite being a longtime all-grain homebrew monkey, I have noticed this. Recently converted to cider in season. The proper scrumpy, available over here from english farmers by the jerry-can, online. Cuts the tum right off (but does horrible things to your teeth and brain in excess. Balance of risk and all that). Beer is a winter drink.

  53. @ Tam

    There’s a cider mill nearby that I’ve been meaning to check out.

    That’s awesome that you’re a home brewer. I’ve never done it myself. I’ve read a bit about the process and was going to try making mead but never got around to it.

    During the winter I like stouts and porters if I’m going to have beer. There actually was an organic chocolate stout by Samuel Smith’s that I thought was very good. Stone brewery made a smoked vanilla bean porter last year that I enjoyed as well. If I do indulge at all this winter I’ll probably pick something like that.

    I was having a few beers every day for quite a while. Big fan of the extra-hoppy IPA’s in particular too. I don’t doubt that played a significant role in developing the gut I have now that I’m working to get rid of.

  54. re: Intergender Friendships

    I wonder how much we as guys friendzone ourselves by not escalating enough, or fast enough.

    I’m still getting over the feeling that touching girls is “rude” or unwarranted or is going to get some really bad response, like they’re going to get angry at me or creeped out or something. I just freeze up. Wherever I picked up that fear, it feels like a conditioned response. I just freeze up.

    I always seem to wait for the “green light” to do anything, and even then I hesitate. I haven’t had a lot of touch in my life at all and it’s hard for me to discern between touch being an expression of sexual interest and just someone’s nature. Or how to sexualize it.

    I would imagine that most times open touching is a sign of potential sexual interest. I’ve been a real dummy before, including doing nothing when girls would play footsies with me in high school, or just freezing up and not knowing what to do any other times they’d pull things like that.

    Touch is the ultimate meta-communication. I’ve been trying to build confidence with this. And understand how girls communicate with touch.

    How much shit testing is involved with touching? If a girl sits down right next to you and is leaning on you, or puts her hand on your knee, is that a shit test to see if you’re just going to sit there and do nothing or mirror what she’s doing?

    If you don’t really react or touch her back and just do nothing, is that a fail for the test and you start moving into Care Bear territory?

    Especially with all the media bombardment of ‘rape culture’ and guys being ‘creepy’, initiating touch and touching girls casually seems very difficult. I did get really drunk at a party and just sat down between two girls I didn’t know and put my arms around them. That actually seemed to work. The one on the right was kind of creeped out and would pull away from me when I put my hand on her shoulder. But the other one was leaning in to me and putting her hand on my leg and everything.

    The end goal here is, of course, to “just get it”…and honestly I think I have the answers within myself. My gut is telling me to do this or that, whether it’s saying something somewhat offensive or insulting, or touching a girl, something simple as putting my hand on her knee or around her casually like it was nothing —

    — but the conditioning, and the fear of ‘what if,’ and the self-consciousness, are getting in the way of that.

    It’s like an inner alpha voice. Male instincts. Possibly that have just been suppressed to the point where we think we have to consciously understand them, when maybe all we have to do is get out of our heads — get out of our own way.

    Hypergamy is hard wired into women. It should follow that Game is hard wired into men. I remember as a little kid getting my neighbor to drop her pants and show me her girl parts. I was like, 3 years old. She ran off and told my mom who proceeded to scream at me and I was punished pretty severely.

    I didn’t get caught when I was dressed up as a ninja one halloween. I think I was only 6 or something then. my sister had a friend over that was a ballerina or something. She was dancing around the table, which I was hiding under and I kept lifting her skirt up with my plastic sword so I could see up it.

    Hilarious. But really. Kids do shit like this all the time. I think it’s in our nature as men as much as hypergamy is women’s nature. We just live in a culture that fosters the growth and flourishing of hypergamy and morally shames and attempts to stunt the growth and development of male sexuality and sexual impulses.

  55. Hi Rollo, thanks for another awesome article!

    I wonder if someday you could illuminate the ways in which men’s love is idealistic. That is how I felt since I was a boy but it is difficult to put into words.

    Maybe the number one thing I can think of is that I feel I have a duty to put my wife and kids first. However there are probably 100 better examples or ways to explain how men’s love is idealistic.

    Thanks again!

  56. One reason MOST men get oneitis (which I don’t think Rollo has covered), is that most men have very little options in the SMP. This makes every girl he happens to bang much more “cherishable” in his eyes. So eventually, he begins to mate guard and do all this other beta shit to keep her on lock, which ironically, makes her want to leave him.

    Now on the other hand, the average woman has way more options than the average man does. They have to at least subconsciously know this. Which is why women don’t get oneitis (at least in the same way a man gets it). On Tinder, I swear some girls I wouldn’t even bother talking to in person, get so many matches it’s ridiculous. For those wondering how I know, some girls will post the amount of matches they receive via “Moments” and say shit like, “OMG, look at all these matches!! Sorry If i can’t respond to you on time!…blah blah blah…”

    Give it a few years and I can honestly see only the top 10% of men getting consistent sex from women. If I was the old me, I wouldn’t give a shit seeing as how I’ll still get laid. But when too many men are left out of the SMP, bad things will begin to happen as a whole. Guys dropping out of everything, saying fuck the system, and probably a hand full of guys will go all out Eliot Rodger style.

    re: humor
    Humor is only important ( as far as fucking is concerned) to a girl when she already likes your look. Personality only comes into consideration if she’s trying to keep you or get rid of you. It doesn’t come into play(too much) when she’s making that initial decision to fuck you. Obviously, I’m talking about the primal, raw, feral fucks and not the negotiated shit most men deal with. I’ve known guys who were complete silent types (even at parties) and they’ll still pull just for meeting a girl’s look type.

    re: men and women being friends
    The only close interpretation of men being friends with a girl is “friends with benefits” and that’s something I know nearly everyone takes part of (at least among the young crowd). I know girls who ping me on what I’m doing for the night and eventually, we’ll hang out and fuck at the end of it. I do the same thing with girls too and they’re all up for it.

    What many guys in the manosphere don’t know is that men with many girls in rotation and those with a good social circle, will tend to pass these girls around to his friends. The girls, in turn, introduce more of their own friends into the mix and then we practically have a whole underground society of sex with no attachment. There are only so many high value men in the world, that women can’t help but share them. I know most girls don’t prefer this set up but eventually they have to give into their biology and have sex with an alpha. Mind you, no one is in a real relationship here, so the girls are treated as objects for a quick release. I remember banging one of these girls out and thinking to myself, “I feel sorry for the poor sucker who eventually marries that. She’ll probably act like a nun around him, too.”

  57. Tinder Master – “I know most girls don’t prefer this set up but eventually they have to give into their biology and have sex with an alpha.”

    Which only works because the betas are still at chomping at the bit to wife ’em up at some point.

    Beta = stupid. Only the beta mindset could be so foolish to believe these women are worth more than a fuck. Given that the beta won’t get the best performance these women aren’t even really worth that.

  58. @Tinder Master

    In this “whole underground society of sex with no attachment” what would be the approximate ratio of alpha guys like you and objectified women?

  59. @Badpainter:
    “Which only works because the betas are still at chomping at the bit to wife ‘em up at some point.”

    The setup would have worked either way. Chicks are always looking and banging the best, so any indifference on the beta’s part serves them well anyway. I suppose it’s still good so a beta won’t have any mental hangup but she’s still going to keep at it. You can’t change a girl’s genuine desire to fuck top guys.

    @redlight:
    In general, I think the top 15%-20% of men get most of the girls at any given place. But what I describe up above, happens at a more micro level. I say this because I don’t know if other social circles do this, but in mines we do. Anyway, there are 4 guys who toss around 20+ or so girls. The guys always stay the same but the girls either pile up or change. This is with no substantial effort on our part (aside from fucking them). The girls come and bring in other girlfriends on their own.

    Now that I think about it, I recall a friend who was a big club promoter out in another city. He had, give or take, 8 friends (or his “team” as he would put it) always with him. I remember him showing me videos and pictures of all the girls he would bang at beach houses. I wasn’t too close to him, but I wouldn’t doubt it if he had passed around his groupies out to his friends. He had the capacity to pull really fine model type girls from the club and string her friends along anywhere.

    These things do happen and they’re kept in secrecy by women not out of fear of shame, but from letting “outsiders” in on the good stuff.

  60. I wonder if someday you could illuminate the ways in which men’s love is idealistic.

    Turn on any top 40 radio station. Listen to the lyrics men write and sing then compare them to what women write and sing for half an hour. Profit.

    @Tinder

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/30/there-is-no-one/

    The definition of Power is not financial success, status or influence over others, but the degree to which we have control over our own lives. Subscribing to the soulmate mythology necessitates that we recognize powerlessness in this arena of our lives. Better I think it would be to foster a healthy understanding that there is no ONE. There are some good Ones and there are some bad Ones, but there is no ONE.

    I take it you’re familiar with my Plate Theory series?

  61. tinder master – “so any indifference on the beta’s part serves them well anyway. ”

    Only if the Alpha Fux are an adequate substitute for the epiphany phase/Beta Bux. I suspect given the preference for short term thinking, and a genuine lack of introspection that Alpha Fux are more than adequate as long as they can get them. When the cat lady stage comes along they have their memories. And Betas can still be counted on to do what’s “right.”

    Your point about bad things happening in the aggregate when the betas drop out has merit. But so what? Would you give up the pussy buffet for the sake of….whatever?

    I’m curious how far the betas can be pushed. My guess is the sexual breaking point is far past the economic and political breaking points in aggregate.

  62. I wonder if someday you could illuminate the ways in which men’s love is idealistic. That is how I felt since I was a boy but it is difficult to put into words.

    Watch the movie ‘Her‘. This is a 2-hour illustration of male idealistic love. This plot only works with a male as the main character.

  63. @tinder

    “These things do happen and they’re kept in secrecy by women not out of fear of shame, but from letting “outsiders” in on the good stuff”

    and the men keep this in secrecy too? Nobody wanted to try make some bucks writing about it? and the manosphere is devoid of alphas (except you) and thus unaware of this?

  64. If you “think” you have “friendships” with women simply ask to borrow $20 from one of these “friends” for 2 hrs.

    And

    Closely observe the physical pain and anguish she goes through in the process
    …finding her hand bag..(shell huff and puff)
    ….russeling around for her purse…(more groans)…
    …..heaving that purse out like it was a 40lb dumbell…(arms straining)..
    ……snaping it shut at 100decibels and begrudgingly handing the $20 over with NO eye contact.

    Then shell cut the conversation and physically remove herself from the situation, and begin to execute a debt collection process more efficient than AMEX.

  65. Max- I’ve always found female friends to be fairly generous with time and money etc. I think women reserve that shit for men they are trying to real into their mating strategy. But even on dates money has not been an issue for me. I rarely cover the whole tab anymore, I never hear any complaints.. although on first dates there is a bit of surprise.
    Tinder- I think you are right about male one itis being in part a reaction to scarcity, but not completely. I know many a lady killer who just had that One who he pines over or amrries up. I remember with my last ex I’ve written about before- I was dating a tall, nordic blonde, hot as hell and had a latina/asian spinner who was great in bed.. and yet once I met my ex I was smitten like a schoolboy- there was no scarcity, so whats up with that?
    I think your generation has a great advantage since girls who are very young expect very little to put out. Being gen x girls were still a bit old fashioned and expected bfs, relationships etc to do so to some degree. Oh, there were many who didn’t, but the majority were just trained to think badly of themselves for putting out. It kind of trained us to serve the FI.
    Compare that with these young girls today- at school I have a 22 yr old who got so nervous around me she would stammer- I finally took care of her 😉 and I have a 24 yr old who is gone for the holidays who just send me a vid of herself (minus face) fingering herself at her parents place in NC.
    Fuck, I’m 44 and even at my best a 5-6.
    Women today just don’t think its a big deal to spread em. I think thats great for younger guys because it robs the FI of it’s greatest training technique… for older guys, we all either had to, or have to, get used to the new reality in which sex is offered up for nothing.
    I love it, I just wish it was this way when I was younger!

  66. Imagine this: when you were a kid, you likely fried piss ants with a magnifying glass, yes? And upon achieving that, if you were anything like me, you began trying to burn everything in sight with that focused light… just to learn what was possible.

    Ok, then, you also learned that the light had to be focused for a long enough sustained period of time for it to get hot enough to begin burning telephone poles or fence posts or whatever, right?

    Physics.

    Ok, let’s apply this to the intersexual relationships in YOUR life. Be diffuse, unconfident, doubting, unsure, and NOTHING will happen for you in your intersexual relationships, same as with a magnifying glass. Ok, let’s try this:

    Be focused, intense, extreme, stubborn, unmovable, steeled in your resolve as a man—focused on YOUR goals, on YOUR life, on YOUR desires. (Newbs, please disbelieve for a moment.) I’ve never seen this discussed in the mansophere, ANYWHERE, but it’s ABSOLUTELY true.

    Consider dialing your life’s energy down to a focal point, as if you were frying piss ants with a magnifying glass, and stay there, HOLD IT there, long enough for something to happen. I suppose this is a matter of faith. If you doubt, go fry some ants with a magnifying glass to see that this is the truth. After you’ve done that, return here, and listen—the laws of physics (notwithstanding government interventions, which is substantial), are immutable, and believe it or not, they actually apply to human relationships. This is a godsend to the STEM crowd, though no one will ever tell you about it, besides this comment right here. Yes, you should first have a foundational understanding of the ways in which human male/female relationships differ from scientific equations (slight), but thereafter, physics actually DO apply, which you should be really good at.

    This runs counter to all you are taught in the manosphere—approach, push/pull, aloof, play games, etc, but that doesn’t change the science of it.

    Star gravity pulls all proximate elements into its gravitational mass, whereupon nuclear fusion occurs, because of the sheer intensity of elements being driven into one another. Can we agree on that?

    Good, now realize that you are a star, in the pure sense of the term—elements being concentrated in upon themselves… THAT CREATES GRAVITY. Nerdy as fuck, right? But, check this out: it also applies to human relationships. Ask Donald Trump, or some other billionaire of your choice. Sure, you don’t have what those billionaires have, but you have YOU. Learn to collapse YOU down into your most concentrated essence, and especially learn to do it when you are in a social situation. You will find that other humans are pulled into your ‘gravitational’ field, both females and males.

    Of course, the gallery will scoff and post snarky comments about this, but this isn’t for them—it’s for the silent readership trying to make sense of their own individual lives. Look readership, you are what you are. You can change that over time, with work, and you should, if you think that prudent. But, for the here and now, you are you, and that’s all you’ve got to work with. SO FUCKING WORK WITH IT. Drive your energy into yourself so hard that all social relations surrounding you have no other option but to be sucked into YOU.

    All you guys reading are thinking: “this guy’s full of shit,” but at the very same time, you’re thinking *to yourself*, fuck yeah, damn straight, “I AM good enough.” Well, this anonymous nobody posting a comment on Rollo’s blog is here to tell you, “You’re damned right; you are good enough.”

    But YOU have to realize it.

    Throw out all the garbage you’ve been told about yourself for your entire life.

    Grab sack fellas, drive your energy inward (like nuclear fusion in a star), pull all willing females into your orbit, and have fun!

    I have countless male wings who will attest to you that this works. No lines, no scripts, no bullshit. Just pure unadulterated pussy-go-getting-pizazz. Be passionate about what you are passionate about.

    Oh, wait a minute, you think that out of 7 billion humans on this planet that YOU are not worthy of having love in YOUR life? Come on, sperg, nature was designed for YOU. Shake off all the negative self talk in your head, realize that you ARE worthy, and go forth, find your female. She’s just as lonely as you are, and she is waiting for you. Break out of your self-imposed mental chains and just be there for it to happen. Stop listening to the MSM agitprop and begin listening to guys who actually care for you, like Rollo; jettison all the garbage that’s been dumped on you since you were a kid and actualize the fact that you were meant to have a female and to make babies (if that’s what you want).

    The enlightened readers of Rollo are totally rooting for you. Go get yours.

    See, here’s the thing: much of the manosphere (especially, the for-profit aspects of it) would have you believe that you can only score with females by buying their bullshit. Not true. You actually CAN be yourself, and get females, but you must believe in YOU. And the quickest, easiest way to do that, is to drive your own unique energy inward, like a star—the orbiters will show themselves. And see, this isn’t costing you a penny.

    Unlike many of the for-profit shysters, I don’t care about your money. I care about you living a healthy life—because I have to live with you. I would much rather you be a healthy fulfilled human being, than an (justifiably) angry bitter being who shares my space.

    I know you’re broken. I get it. It happens. Such is life. We’re all broken in one way or another. However, out of respect to Rollo, who gives a substantial portion of his life’s energy to all of this, let’s show him the common courtesy of at least trying.

    Look, I’m not selling you unicorns and lollipops. I’m telling you right now, to disabuse all the bullshit you were raised upon (and it was a shit ton, no doubt), to discard it, to throw it onto the ash heap of your life, and to right now, today, begin believing in yourself.

    That is a much better world for me and mine.

  67. @rollo

    It’s treating me like married life. But its interesting how a man’s attitude and outlook towards it changes with the proper consciousness about it all. I owe you a major debt.

    I got this long-ish sort of story.

    When I was in boot camp at Parris Island, way there was this black guy from somewhere in the backwoods south. And the guy was fucking one of the most stupid people I have ever none in my life ….

    Private Fucking Dudley.

    I cannot remember any one else’s name, not one other guy. I think the platoon guide was a black guy named Washington, but I am not sure because back then half the blacks in the Marine Corps were named Washington.

    But I can remember Private Fucking Dudley. I still see his face and all those other faces have blurred in my memory with the passage of 40 years. The “Fucking'” part is burnt into my head because you were Private Fucking Whoever when you fucked up, and you heard your name said in this way Private Fucking Smith. And this guy fucked up constantly.

    In many male organizations where “domination” is a key mode of learning, like a sports team, a military unit, etc, often the way to “motivate” an individual is to also punish his peers. The instills external pressure and guilt in the individual and also instills peer pressure on the others to assist the individual in correcting his errors. To see others being punished as the result of your actions is painful to point that you concentrate to correct your errors. This repeated group punishment failed to have any quick remediation with Private Fucking Dudley. And the group punishments mounted.

    In the Marine Corps there was always the threat of this reprisal from others called the Blanket Party. There was one shown in the movie Full Metal Jacket. While an individual is sleeping, his blanket is yanked over his head and held in place while the others strike blows at his body with a new bar of Dial soap in a sock. The idea is to inflict pain without inflicting serious damage.

    So as the mass group punishments mounted due to the fuckups of Private Fucking Dudley, the grumbling increased with talk of giving him a blanket party.

    We had this thing called a School Circle. The Drill Instructor would call “Schooooooooool Cirrrrrrrcle” and we would rush at him forming this block of men, all smashed in together, “Asshole to Bellybutton”. Then he would bark out “raaaah-DEE” and we would crisply cross our arms across our chest, hands in a fist, banging the inside of the fists on our chests just below the collar bone with a “Thud” and we would holler loudly “Marine Corps”. Then the DI would give the commands “Seats” and we just collapse to the ground on our asses, bending the knees, and dropping with your arms remaining crossed across our chests. Then the DI would call, “Adjust” and we slap our hands from chests, uncrossing them to slap your kneecaps, hollering “Self Discipline”. It was a very fast and efficient way to gather 120 people into a group for a potential class, perhaps a dissemination of orders or information.

    We were in a School Circle and Private Fucking Dudley “requests permission to speak to the Privates”, meaning us, the rest of us, a completely unprecedented action. Privates didn’t speak and certainly not in a School Circle. The DI was fucking flabbergasted but he consented with “Dudley, this had better not be some fucking bullshit, you understand?”

    He assumed, as did the rest of us, that this would some sort of “mea culpa”, “sorry for all the mistakes, I’ll do better.” sort of thing.

    And Private Fucking Dudley stood up and faced us and he said,

    “I heard some of the privates were looking to get back at Private Dudley. So all’s I got to say is ….

    Jump on the fucking bus.” (Slang for “Bring it on” back in the day)

    The drill instructor screamed at him “Dudley fucking shut up you little monkey” and 120 privates just roared in laughter at him.

    Jump on the fucking bus.

    Here 120 Marine recruits were ready to beat this motherfucker with bars of soap in a sock and this guy says “Jump on the fucking bus”. The fucking cheek of it all.

    But there never was a blanket party. And I personally began to grudgingly respect the guy for it as time passed. He wasn’t apologizing; he was already trying the best he could, he wasn’t deliberately fucking up. He was what he was and we could fuck ourselves if we had issue with it.

    Jump on the fucking bus.

    As I read the last three posts, Boundaries, Intimacy, Vulnerability, I understand what they say. They say that if you set boundaries, if you seek intimacy, if you show your vulnerabilities then you loose the respect and perhaps the attraction of a woman.

    And really it is a recurring theme of this blog, and mostly in the comments about what she will do to you, what harm she will cause, what pain she will cause, what shit she will bring into your life. It is like men are Russian soldiers on the front in 1940 and the women are the Panzers and it’s all “Oh shit, here they come.”

    And what I say is that if you read Rational Male and you understand the lessons imparted here, then when you enter any relationship from this point forward, be it some stupid friendship, a fuckbuddy, an LTR, and most especially a marriage, especially a marriage with the potential legal impact that can last the rest of your life, when you deal with her, in any way, in any manner, no matter fucking what, …..

    Your attitude towards her will be, if she wants to bring it, bring her bullshit, then ….

    Jump on the fucking bus.

    And for that I owe you, Rollo Tomassi.

  68. Hijack ahead: Softek, brewing’s easy if you have the space, hard as hell if not. It’s as messy as fuck and uses a fair bit of power (like any worthwhile pastime).
    Rule #1: Clean clean cleanity clean. I use dilute poolshock, very very carefully. Rinse rinse rinsety rinse. There aren’t many more Rules, apart from avoiding daylight/fluorescent/UV like The Count. Dark bottles. Boil/oven the fuckers, complete PITA but I find indispensible.
    Pick the time of year. High summer=useless, and midwinter, unless venturing into the Lager-Reich (very tasty compared to commercial pisswasser).
    Have a crack at TurboCider, if you fancy a jaunt into the cheery rustic realm of the braindamaged english wurzel,. All you need is a (food-grade) bucket, no space at all, kitchen cabinet or in the bog if stuck.
    Stout’s the best beer for getting into it, all that roasted flavour & colour hides a multitude of beery sins, failures very rare (if too turbid, you will end up knowing what dysentery feels like, weightloss not a problem). I always bottle after sufficient months, no priming. Can’t swig a whole cask fast enough to avoid spoilage. Have given it a jolly good go, though.

  69. @redlight

    “1. Clothing and Dressing well.”

    The clothes don’t make the man; the man makes the clothes.

    Aside from that, realize that clothes wear out over time. Nonetheless, purchase clothes as an investment. Some articles last longer than others (footwear, belts, watches, etc)—for those, buy shit that will still be in style 20 years hence. Not because it will still be in style 20 years hence, but because by such virtue it is the shit today, and will be the shit tomorrow.

    Females adorn themselves in herd-driven fads—don’t be female. They, being so close to that mindless mindset, recognize it for what it is—female.

    The clothes don’t make the man; the man makes the clothes.

    Incidentally, this applies to pretty much everything discussed in the manosphere.

    For example, the scientist who landed that machine on that comment and wore a gauche shirt to the press conference—own that shit playa! The man makes the clothes. The gallery can go pound sand.

    “5. Any in depth, plate spinning guides?”

    Study internet analytics. Same shit, only the gearheads are more refined in their analyses.

    “6. Sex.”

    Learn to love life. Joie de vie is communicable.

    “I really like going down on women, Is that alpha/TRP challenging?”

    Once you start having females at will, you will stop doing this, and then ONLY do it for females for whom you have a transcendent level of respect, which is VERY few, like 1 out of 10 (and even then, only after she’s showered).

    “Also, Assuming its all about you, and you should be caveman/assertive/rough in bed, wouldn’t she most likely wouldn’t have sufficient time to get aroused and wet?”

    The caveman/assertive/rough in bed meme is overplayed in the manosphere. That meme is propagated by males who really haven’t mastered their bedroom lives and are looking for shorthand concepts to guide their personal growth in that particular area. Totally fine, not dissing it. We all have “training wheels” at some point in our lives. However, the longhand for this shorthand, is really about dominance of yourself. What do YOU want (within reason)? What do YOU desire (within the bounds of respect for other human beings, or simply within the bounds of plain old respect for other living organisms). It’s an unfolding process that takes place over time, but you must gradually learn to be what you really are, and to express that in the company of females, particularly females who are naked in your bed. Consciously or subconsciously, females want men. Males initiate their energy into this world (females receive). Little boys build shit with legos and blow shit up with gunpowder… it has always been thus. You have to learn to build shit and blow shit up in the bedroom, and as an adult, that’s really a matter of learning to dissolve all the bullshit conditioning you were raised with. Betas are domesticated in spirit; alphas are wild in spirit. Call of the Wild, yo. Learn to connect with your inner animal, while still appreciating and respecting the civilizing capabilities native to human beings. It’s a balance. Learn to embody your male desires in the bedroom (btw, “male desires” are NOT the internet porn filth that younger generations were raised upon—that shit is spiritual warfare, and YOU are its target). Females want far less to be ‘pleased’ in the bedroom, than they want to ‘please’ in the bedroom. Their survival depends upon it, and this brings them happiness and fulfillment. It’s just biology. Go watch a documentary about lions. The lionesses are pretty much in estrous, nonstop. The male pretty much fucks the females nonstop. Watch how the lionesses are with the male who lays there uninterested and tired from fucking so much—the last thing he cares about is ‘pleasing’ his females. That should inform your behavior in the bedroom. (And this isn’t misogyny—what I’m saying is that females derive pleasure from fully being females in the presence of a male fully being male—not from a male second guessing himself over what the female may or may not want, sexually. Females want an alpha in bed, period, full stop. An alpha is a male who competes in this world for the title. That is far more than sufficient for the vast majority of females.)

    “TRP/Alpha sex – all about you,”

    Again, an overplayed meme in the manosphere, and a REALLY toxic one, at that. “all about you” for a true alpha, includes his greater sphere of life—females, children, work, buddies, community, warfare. Only little bitty males truly live lives thinking only about themselves. Fully embodied males live lives thinking about their entire sphere of life. In that sense, sure, it’s “all about you” in the bedroom.

    “If you slowly turned from Beta to Alpha, how did it affect your friendships with your guy friends?”

    Growth pains, man, growth pains. If you continue to travel down this path, ALL of your relationships will be tested, and most of them won’t survive. Human nature is to seek comfort. Pursuing the red pill with vigor is the opposite of that. Your friends/family will NOT want their comfortable niches disturbed. Cernovich is cultivating a community for young (and older) males who are on this path and can lean on one another. Read their comments—almost all of them have undergone the pain of shedding old relationships. It sucks, truly. As human mammals, we’re simply not built to have to shed our immediate relationships. Historically and biologically, we depend on them for survival. But historically and biologically, we never gave our first borns to banksters in the form of bankster bailouts to burn on the pyre. Yet, here we are. Adapting in this day and age means (in many cases) leaving your biological tribe to find your true tribe, the one that cares about YOUR survival because it cares about its OWN survival. Bitter sauce, but that’s the world we live in.

    “8. Also about sex and plate spinning.”

    Focus on yourself; then the universe will put females into your life. (I realize that most Rollo readers have inadequate reference points to make sense of this. It comes with experience. The more you direct your energy inward into YOUR life, the more reference points you will accrue. And then, one day, you will look up, and realize, that females are the least of your worries.)

    “9. Money on woman.”

    Man, the guys in the manosphere who are adamant about never spending a cent on a female—well, think long and hard about where those guys are coming from. In the early stages of a relationship, I NEVER let a female buy anything. Noodle that. Why? Because it’s MY fucking world, and I run shit in my world. Once into an established relationship, I will have females buy me shit that I want/need, and not because I need their money or because I can’t afford said item on my own. No. It’s about amplifying the male/female dynamic, for HER psychological benefit—I couldn’t give less of a shit about it. Letting them buy you shit gives them what they want—A PLACE IN THIS WORLD.

    “To be honest, he is a bit soft, and beta himself.”

    Nothing inherently wrong with counseling. The problem is that 99% of counselors come from the caustic soup that is the feminine imperative. So, how much help can they really be to you, at least insofar as you’re working through issues pertaining to intersexual dynamics. Not much, I reckon.

    @redlight
    The mere fact that you’re reading this site indicates that you are on a healthy path. I would caution you on one point: don’t allow the cynicism and bitterness of the commenters here to overly affect you. 99% of this site’s readers don’t comment. Feel your fellowship with those silent readers, and not so much with the loud commenters. But, yeah, dude, just taking the red pill puts you ahead of 98% of the male population. Sorry for the divorce, but life will start looking up for you now that you’ve found this community. Congrats. Onward and upward.

  70. Narcissists tend to “fall in love” or make the quest of their lives to convince someone who ignores them to start loving them. That’s why some folk might develop oneits for a girl who barely acknowledge his existence, but that is a kid with issues, struggling with the ghosts of his infancy. He wants tha unconditional love that mommy denied, so she could work and earn some financial independence. He might grow as a revolted young male, appear alfa on every aspect, but deep inside he’s an afraid, a beta to the core.

    So, normal man would not fall for a girl who ignores him. But a man who would, should pay more attention to his psyche.

  71. In my opinion the last thing a man should ever do in the current climate is seek therapy, at this point it is dripping with the FI and basically a tool to keep men slaves to it. I’d go even farther and say that the modern therapeutic/psychological model is damaging to men in general.
    Modern psychotherapy uses female emotional and pyschological health as the healthy and correct response. But men have a much different set of emtional and psychological needs, and dealing with them from a feminine perspective is actually damaging to a mans mental/emotional health.
    Unless you are deep in crisis or desperately in need of intervention, I’d say avoid it like a plague. and do your best to get a therapist who, at the very least, has a healthy view of masculinity- a hard thing to find.

    As to one-itis for a girl who has no interest in you- this is a classic sign of someone who has male BPD or has developed a caregiving attitude towards women. One survival strategy developed by a child is to Fawn- the please otherwise indifferent or cruel parents. As the child grows this fawning behavior leads to the necessity of finding women who are cold and uncaring, to seek their approval, to earn love, as it is the way he developed his mental model in childhood. Redeminence is correct that it is a form of narcissism, and left over childhood issues.

  72. @Hobbes

    You seem pretty hopped up (like Minter, Glenn, ‘me’, et al). Totally understandable: the red pill is as bitter as it comes.

    Maybe you could ease us in a little bit, as to where you’re coming from, so that we have some reference points upon which to filter your input? We’re all here for a reason, and understanding where one of the commenters is coming from can be very educational for all of us.

    Or not, whatever works for you. Just extending the invitation. Pretty sure you won’t be judged, but rather empathized with. Anyway, your call.

  73. @magnifiq- I have no problems at all with trying to express where I’m coming from, I’m just not sure what that would entail… so questions might be easier for me to get at what you’re looking for. As for me, I’m more than glad to be an open book- God knows the comments here, as much as Rollos writings, have really liberated me and changed my life.
    I’m also coming form the perspective of someone who was as blue pill as it gets, and I have no disastor stories for you guys- I have been mostly lucky with my interactions with women, but of course, suffered through much confusion and pain due to my ignorance and blue pill ways.
    I write about the psychological aspects of RP because it has been my road , and I’ve paid dearly for following the standard psychological “path” and it left me worse and worse. (much like marriage counseling will dissolve a marriage faster than an affair) Not only have I had to unplug from the blur pill, but at the same time I had to unplug from the therapist induced damage, well meaning though it may have been.
    Simply put, My natural masculinity was screaming to express itself, but I ahd been trained to be deeply blue pill. As I tried to deal with the masculinity that I was repressing, it left me depressed and feeling worse about myself.. as I sought help from the modern therapists and psychological community to deal with the childhood, where they wanted to lead me was right back into blue pill territory, offering me effeminate, female driven solutions to my unhappiness. This, of course, simply cemented the damage deeper. In essence Not only was I blue pill, I felt bad for not being a “good” blue piller.
    Once I started to explore psychology from the perspective of male and female differences, that what I needed was different than what was being offered and made myself view all things in a male-centric fashion,I finally began to experience real healing. The kind of emotional and psychological growth that felt “right” and made me better.
    I can’t really condense it all into a comments section, it would take a blog of my own, or a book (which I am trying to write, but it’s not Game centered- its more about the therapeutic aspects) but I’m more than happy to answer any questions- with the caveat that I am no expert.

    But just reading Rollo and the comments here are amazingly helpful. It’s as much responsible for my healing as my own self guided therapy.

  74. @Magnifiqique

    thanks for the answers, they were not my questions but ones from r/theredpill

    @Hobbes

    I had a male therapist for a few months a decade ago and he was pretty much RP. He said I needed to be doing stuff, which worked, and women are emotional beings. Recently saw an excellent female therapist for grief counseling, and the advice is much the same! I was moping around at lunch today, reading comments here and there, and while reflection is useful, doing stuff is better therapy.

  75. @Hobbes

    “In essence Not only was I blue pill, I felt bad for not being a “good” blue piller.”

    Yeah, that right there is the ultimate mind fuck.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing. I can now read your comments in a much more contextual light. I have no specific questions for you… just wanted to understand a little bit more about where you’re coming from… and now I do. Thanks.

    ***
    I’ve been reading the manosphere for many years now, and I ask the readership: How fucked up is it that we’ve allowed our world to arrive at this place? It blows my mind. Best to you all as we untangle this birds nest.

  76. @Hobbes
    “Modern psychotherapy uses female emotional and pyschological health as the healthy and correct response. But men have a much different set of emtional and psychological needs, and dealing with them from a feminine perspective is actually damaging to a mans mental/emotional health.”

    This is by and large a valid opinion, but I was extremely fortunate to find a counselor that when I came to a red pill view of things actually agreed with me. In fact, here was the hilarious part of our conversation about it: he not only agreed with but already knew everything I said to be true. Every. Little. Bit.

    To paraphrase him a bit: “That’s basic evo psych they taught us in school, and experimentally and anecdotally I can verify it as an extremely accurate predictor of human behavior in relationships. I wish I could just spit it out to every hen-pecked beaten-down man that shuffles in here shoulders slumped and defeated, but if I did I’d be a pariah in the therapist community, hated by the wives that drive most if not all of my marriage counseling business (which is the bulk of his practice), and homeless on the street with no job in a month.”

    In short, good, science-based red pill (though of course that’s not the term he uses for it) accepting therapists do exist. Probably far more than we’d expect. But the FI has so corrupted the profession that the good ones must keep their heads down or risk loss of their livelihood.

  77. What? ‘Truth’ bad for business? Lies and bullshit not profiting in this day and age? Pfft

    Take your pills, Rollo.

  78. There was an article I saw a long time back about how the psychological community only certifies therapists that follow a very specific line of thinking. Between reading that article at the time and thinking about his words just now in light of all Rollo’s writing has helped me put together, I finally get what the article was all about: a psychological professional realizing FI corruption’s control of who’s allowed to treat people and how they’re allowed to do it. He just didn’t put the blame there.

    I’ve been a big proponent of the importance of watching out for your psychological health, but seeing such a terrible force holding the reins… it makes me wonder what the manosphere could do to provide men with resources to find psycholigical help that works consistently with a man’s self-interest in mind. Otherwise, men will continue to find themselves in this predicament. Hell, I won’t blame married guys that scoff at “marriage counseling” that basically advocates his complete surrender of his last shreds of dignity.

    What could we do to provide cover for the guys that know better and could make a difference with that knowledge? Anything? I mean, it’s all well and good to expect them to just speak up and pay the consequences for doing the right thing, but that’s easy to say when it’s not your livelihood going down in flames. How could we help them? Or is the community so averse to psychological professionals at this point that nothing could be done?

  79. @redlight- You don’t know how fortunate you are to find a red pill leaning therapist. I was never one for therapy, as I was mostly ok, but prone to depression.. the few times I was sent to a therapist or gave into pressure to see one,I was basically all but labeled as angry simply for- looking back- noting how little reality matched the BS I was supposed to believe. I even remember telling a therapist back i my 20s that I suspected that my caretaking of women, etc was a bad thing that turned them off and remember being encouraged to DO MORE caretaking, that the “right girl” would love me for it, etc. I remember pointing out that I felt emasculated by that behavior and expectation and so therapy became about how my idea of masculinity was wrong, that I should embrace a “different” image of it, etc etc. I was even told that my doubts were a result of identifying with my abusive father, thus it was all an urge to abuse women! All because, remember, I felt that I was turning women off by being a caretaker and giving too much of myself.
    You want a mind fuck.. well thats it. And that wasn’t the only time, but it’s a good example.
    I could go on and on. What is crazy making about it is to see with your eyes the world functioning one way,and then to be told that its just your eyes, and not reality. I eventually found a good therapist, who while not red pill, is definitely not blue pill either. More of realist than anything. But I sought him out- looked and interviewed until I found someone who fit. I had also, by then, done much of the work myself. I am almost a completely different person now.. still picking up the pieces of my BP wreckage, but I feel motivated, strong, in control and actually have hope.
    I’m ready to take on the second act of my life and can literally feel the energy in my bones.

  80. Badpainter: “I’m curious how far the betas can be pushed. My guess is the sexual breaking point is far past the economic and political breaking points in aggregate.”

    BP, I’ve been pondering this as well and haven’t completely thought it thru yet but will throw out some ideas. My first big realization was what I now refer to as “the thirst”; that is millions upon millions – upwards of 80-90% of the male population being completely shut out of the SM. Not good and a huge factor. Second realization is that Faux Alphas are less productive the Women. They add absolutely no economic value at all. Worse than women; at least women can provide and care for children. Alpha bad-boys spread their evil spawn and expect someone else to provide for them. Third revelation was that evolutionary biology has shown that traditional male-female interaction led to the “Patriarchy” which had as a primary goal to “control” female hypergamy because it is clear that women cannot control it themselves. The final thing that I have realized is that the secondary goal of the Pratriarchy was to control Alphas; especially the Faux Alphas which we now have in abundance.

    So when “the thirst” becomes great enough I can see a violent backlash against all these Faux Alphas running around hogging all the women for themselves. Goes down kinda like this … dude has an affair with your wife and you find out; if you make a stink out of it and the bitch will accuse you of some sort of abuse, divorce your ass, you’ll lose your life savings and may find yourself facing jail. So here is the deal: you life is over anyway so just go kill the mofo. An Alpha fucks your wife: just fucking kill him. Similar thing goes for what I referr to as “Alpha Hunting”. You single and lonely sitting home on a Sat night wishing you could have a real girlfriend ? So call few of your buddies and go to the bar … know the Tall, good looking guy, all dressed up, smelling good, and charming all the ladies. Well you and 3-4 of you buddies find the dude at the end of the night and beat the living shit out of him. Actually, just castrate the bastard and cut his nuts off.

    Dudes getting shut out of the SM make up 90% of the population. Alphas maybe 10%; of those 1/2 are probably married or have their heads on straight and don’t fuck with other people’s wives. That’s a 90% to 5% ratio, how many Faux Alpha’s have to have their face beat in or their nuts cut off before they start backing away … and acting like a normal male.

    The real wild card here, is Yes Means Yes. Most of the Betas will not take the chance of having their lives destroyed with a false allegation. In my mind Alpha’s and the Dark Triad are all symptoms of mental illness, really. Its one of the reasons woman are so attracted to these types; most women are unstable and see a version of the themselves in these fucked up in the head Faux Alphas. So its likely that these assholes will clean up even worse after Yes Means Yes. Afraid of a false allegation ? These dudes are so fucked up in the head, they don’t even care. Pussy smorgasbord for them !!

    So again the question becomes, how many of these Alphas have to be beaten senseless, killed or have their nuts cut off before they realize that Betas are on to their shit and are not going to tolerate it anymore. Its really a question of “the thirst” and what Betas will do when pushed to the limit. Of desperation. And having nothing to lose.

    Lets put into simple numbers, shall we. Lets say that every single Beta in the West realizes the game is up and refuses to play anymore. So every single dude who has his wife cheat …. goes out and blows away the dude who fucked his wife. Every single one. OK ? Just hypothetical here. The 5% of the Faux Alphas are now GONE. And the Betas? Well since its presumably a 1-1 elimination, the Betas have gone from 90% to … ta-dah 85%. You could eliminate every one of the douche bags and not even make a dent in the Beta population. Simple math. And now the Beta’s have access to the females again and the competition from the fuckheads ruining for everyone … is erased.

    It wouldn’t have to go that far of course before a sort of equilibrium would be reached. The Sluts CANNOT get their Alpha fix anymore … because these jerks so value their looks and their nads that they back off and engage in more “normal” relationships (like monogamy) BEFORE they can be eliminated … self preservation is a powerful motivator don’t you know. And the Sluts who refuse to engage Betas, what happens to them? Something WILL HAVE TO GIVE of course and what will it be ? Yeah, the Sluts along with the rest of womankind will realize that they can no longer have their AF/BB. There are not enough AF to go around anymore and now that BB are on to the game, if they do the AF they likely won’t end up with a BB anyway. So …. if they don’t take a Beta right away then they will be both celibate AND childless; something no woman wants. So the demand for Beta’s returns en mass and some stability to the SM is restored.

    So anyway, been thinking along those lines. Its really becoming pretty evident to me that the Faux Alpha, PUA, “Game” assholes are really exhibiting a type of mental illness. Totally anti-social. Kinda like being a homosexual; a mental illness too but one that is an evolutionary dead end so the effects, long term, are mitigated. The Faux Alpha mentality has an extremely harmful effect on society and cannot come to an end soon enough. Frankly I’m kinda surprised that more do not see this and call others out on it. All you gotta do is look at some bad-boy, drug lord, worthless piece of shit who has 8 kids by 6 different women and then look at some PhD in Computer Science who making $200K working in high tech designing the next world changing piece of tech … who is also childless and can’t get a date, to see how fucked up the whole thing is. And how long term its just a disaster for society.

    So anyway, off my soapbox and yeah these ideas are incomplete and need further thought. Maybe somebody can flesh them out and clean them up. Somebody who doesn’t have a vested interest in ($$$) convincing lonely men that being a Faux Alpha is fucking awesome. The real question here is with society moving towards Yes Means Yes, at what point does “the thirst” reach a critical mass and people start lashing out.

  81. “upwards of 80-90% of the male population being completely shut out of the SM”

    That can’t possibly be true

    Alphas can fuck whoever they want, so who don’t they fuck? It turns out a large percentage of the adult female population, including 5 or less any adult age, formerly 7 or less now 30+ who have had kids, are sagging, and gained 30+ pounds, formerly 9 or less who are now 40+, now have tits down to their waist, and all 50+ without extensive plastic surgery. That is a lot of unfuckable women, at least unfuckable by alpha.

    Don’t want an alpha to fuck your wife? Marry her when she is 30+ (pre-nup), have some kids (dna test), let her gain 50 pounds, and hey alpha proof. Now it’s just musical beta chairs, keep putting money in the slut machine.

  82. I normally don’t like to be condescending or confrontational but redlight is such a fucking moron; an absolute complete dumb shit who shouldn’t even be opening his mouth .. so I’m breaking my rules. “redlight” what are you, like 12 years old? Here is a little advice and from some very good personal experience from someone old enough to be your mentor. Got that? A prenupt means squat; not worth the paper its printed on. I’ve heard that from so many dumb shits I can’t count them all and it still pisses me off. Wanna know what a “prenupt is ?”. Its a fucking red flag … dude got a prenupt … means he’s got money for us to steal !!!! Fucking hit the jackpot !!!! Fucking won the lottery !!!! Blood in the water and we are all sharks … dude’s gonna get fucked now !!!.

    Know who is saying that asshole ? The lawyers and the judges; that’s who. You got assets and a prenupt … be prepared to go to prison cause you are gonna lose it all or end up there or both. A FUCKING PRENUPT PROTECTS NOTHING … ABSOLUTELY NOTHING … ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT IS A FOOL.

    Put another way … screwing MEN out of their life savings in the divorce court is the MOST PROFITABLE CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE IN THE WORLD. And some prick shows up with a prenupt and expects to deny the criminals their money … well just HELL NO and who is saying NO … the criminals are and THEY run the courts … not you. So here is a slight guess at who wins … they do mofo. You got a prenupt and they STOLE your money anyway. Don’t like that … here’s a jail for you to see..

    So saying that a prenupt protects any man just shows what a fucking MORON “redlight’ is.

    Along with his other assertions of course. A DNA test, are you kidding me. Fucking cluessless fuck … in order to protect women (don’t ya know) the court’s responsibility IS TO REFUSE TO DO DNA TESTING. Yeah asshole, the courts REFUSE TO ALLOW … not ORDER … I’m talking you independently have a DNA test performed most courts WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO INTRODUCE IT INTO EVIDENCE AND THEY WILL NOT ORDER IT AND WILL NOT ALLOW IT. The court’s responsibility is to screw you out of your life savings and give the female a blank pass. There is no logic. There is no reason. There is no “law”. There is “you are a male” and in order to protect a female no matter how vile she may be … we will destroy you. You are a replaceable drone. We don’t give a fuck about you; because you are disposable. You are nothing; she’s got a V … she wins !

    I could do the same to the rest of redlight’s arguments, but I cherry picked.

    I guess he was butt-hurt cause when I talked about Douche-Bags like him being mentally ill and fucking over honest, hard working men. Guess it pissed him off and made him post without his brain engaged; assuming he had one, which is doubtful. No doubt what prompted him was when I said betas ought to line up by the thousands to go cut HIS NUTS off to prevent him from ruining more of our lives in the future. Yeah, I guess when I implied the millions upon millions of men who are getting screwed in the current SM ought to hunt down and castrate mindless, soul-less, mentally ill, clueless fucks like “redlight” … I should have anticipated that many of those fuck-heads would try to insist that their behavior is acceptable. And raise their bullshit as arguments.

    Guess that just kinda proves my point in a way, doesn’t it ?

  83. @Rocket
    You’ve got a lot of unproductive anger, bro. Look, mate-poaching isn’t just for alphas. Of the chicks that have bailed on me for other dudes (5 of them, by my count) you wanna know how many left for what I would regard as alphas? Zero. I’m an engineer making over 100k/yr, IQ other of 150, and I’ve poached before. I’m spinning 4 plates right now, including a couple poached. Am I alpha? No. So much for that theory of ending poaching.

    The fact is if you’re with an attractive woman no man respects your relationship with her, alpha or otherwise. Hell I stole my first girlfriend from another guy in high school. Get over the angst, that’s just the game. Attractive women, particularly in a population composed 70% of landwhale, are extremely rare. Women who are HB5 and above are probably less than 15% of the female population as a whole. Is it any wonder a shit load of poaching is going on?

    Relax. Think. Breathe. Fantasies of anger and violence won’t get what you want. You’re just a violent version of an SJW right now talking like that. Let go of that. Instead, shrink your perspective more. You’re one man with one man’s needs. What can you do in a reasonable period of time to meet those needs? That’s where Game and try come from. Enlightened self-interest. Let go of the anger brother. You’re so close to the truth. You can be angry at how the world is and insist it be ideal tomorrow, or you can accept how the world is, do the best you can for yourself with the acceptance of that reality in the short term, and try to create a better world for future men in the long run after that.

    Turn the anger in to action for improving your life instead of vitriol at other guys that just wastes the energy.

  84. @rocket

    really over the top of the person attacks, no surprise

    the idea that the dna tests would be introduced in court is laughable, what the fuck were you thinking?

    the prenup doesn’t protect the man, it reduces the chances that a GDW will marry him, read up on this

    you completely miss the boat on the main points, since you decided to waste a zillion words on cherry picking. there are a zillion women who are unfuckable by alpha, why don’t you go fuck a bunch of them?

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